1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel podcast. I'm Paul swing you. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Brahma Wicks. Each day 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: you and your money, whether at the grocery store or 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. Well, the Trump administration said it 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: won't renew waivers that let countries buy Iranian oil without 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: facing US sanctions, a move that royal to energy markets 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: and risks upsetting major importers such as China and India. 11 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: To get the latest on this and all things energy, 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: we welcome John killed Off, John's founding partner of Again Capital, 13 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: based in New York City. John, thanks so much for 14 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: joining us. What do you make of this get tough 15 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: stance by the US administration against Iran? Well, it certainly 16 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: a win for the hawks within the Trump administration, led 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: by n ess A director John Bolton. Uh, this is 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: throwing down the gauntlet and the of course recently designated 19 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: the and Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization, so it's 20 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: a it's another step forward. Towards some kind of confrontation 21 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: it would appear with Iran, which I think is what's 22 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: making the oil market even more skittish about this decision, 23 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,919 Speaker 1: uh than it has otherwise would be. This is actually 24 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: an important point that the prospect of a more severe 25 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: conflict between Iran and the US and just rising tensions 26 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: in the Middle East more so than say, uh, the 27 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: lack of Iran's oil supplies in the market. And this 28 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: is interesting because one question that I had is couldn't 29 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia offset any missed Iranian production in a heartbeat? 30 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: And wouldn't they be happy to do that? Very much so, 31 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: at least because the Sadis, as you know, have been 32 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: dialing back output since November when they actually put more 33 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: oil in the market, thinking that these waivers would be 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: a terminated then um so, yes, they have plenty of 35 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: spare capacity, were in a good position that way, and 36 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: part of the whole global oil market balance has been 37 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: helped out a lot, of course by the surge in 38 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: US production, even though you know the oil is a 39 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: little bit different grade and quality. But Russia also has 40 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: plenty of spare capacity, as as the UAE and Kuwait. 41 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: To a degree. So while we have some problem issues, 42 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: some problem countries out there like Venezuela, and we're all 43 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: watching what's happening in Libya, for the most part, you know, 44 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: the ability for the market that he well supplied remains. So, John, 45 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: are you surprised at all by the timing and this announcement? 46 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: After all, the U. S. Government's kind of apparently getting 47 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: into the final stretches of trade negotiations with China, and obviously, uh, 48 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: this announcement today on a ran certainly impacts China as 49 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: a significant importer that oil. No. I think the the 50 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: sort of the mechanisms involved with these waivers and and 51 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: the sanctions timetable sort of dictated Uh. This I think 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: the administration. Of course, I was hoping to have the 53 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: China trade deal wrapped up by now. They were supposed 54 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: to be in Marrow Lagough already. H that has obviously 55 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: been pushed back. But the pushback from Chinese year should 56 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: be interesting, uh, in terms of whether or not they 57 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: will try to defy the waivers or the sanctions. Right now, 58 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: it appears they will not. I can tell you that 59 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: we know from from loading schedules and things of that 60 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: nature that China's largest refiners are already making plans to 61 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: pull back from purchasing Iranian oil because they don't want 62 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: to run a foul of the U S sanctions and 63 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: the implications for them using the US financial systems. That's 64 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: what makes these sanctions so effective. By the way, it's 65 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: sort of a you're either with US or against this 66 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: type of setup where if you continue to buy Iranian oil, 67 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: you can't bank with the U S, you can't do 68 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: a lot of things with the US. So I'm looking 69 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: at w t I currently trading at two points, trading 70 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: at sixty five dollars and sixty eight cents, two points 71 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: of a gain versus Thursday's close, and I'm just trying 72 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: to figure out your point, John, about the conflict, the 73 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: potential escalated conflict in the Middle East. Uh, this comes, 74 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: of course, as we heard reports that Iran was going 75 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: to close the Straight of hermas In were spons to 76 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: the US is heightened sanctions, and that, of course is 77 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: where about thirty five percent of the world seaboard and 78 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: oil shipment's travel through on their way to a variety 79 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: of countries. So I'm just trying to figure out is 80 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: that really the lynchpin here is that what people are 81 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: looking at as sort of potential true escalation. What's the 82 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: next step here? Well, it's it's hard, it's there's a 83 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: lot of arguments why it doesn't really favor I RAN 84 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: to make a move on the straight of horror moves 85 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: and to block it um And of course the United 86 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: States Navy claims that a RAN if RAN does block it, 87 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: they can unblock it. I've heard that in sent in 88 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: congressional testimony, verbatim. So that's there. The thing that I 89 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: look at and you have to look at, is that 90 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: John Bolton, going back to the Bush administration when he 91 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: served there, wants regime change in Iran. He pushed for it. 92 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: Then there was a time at the latter part of 93 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: the Bush administration when I was in the oil market, 94 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: but we were all rather convinced that there was going 95 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: to be a conflict. Then it petered at things calmed down. 96 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: The Iraq War, you know, was sort of a blocking 97 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: mechanism for that. But that is what is in the 98 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: back of John Bolton's mind. I can tell you that 99 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: as as as when I try to game out what's 100 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,559 Speaker 1: gonna happen with the oil prices, that's in the mix. 101 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: It's not in the forefront. I'm not saying that something 102 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: is going to happen tomorrow, but know that all of 103 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: these steps are being taken in anticipation of finally confronting 104 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: Iran at some point. In my view, John killed Uff, 105 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: founding partner of Again Capital, joining us on those oil 106 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: prices rising today to the highest levels since October of 107 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: last year, at one point rising the most since January, 108 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: on the news that the US was not going to 109 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: extend waivers to a variety of countries to continue to 110 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: import oil from Iran once the US withdrew from the 111 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: nuclear agreement that they had had with that nation. We 112 00:05:45,320 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: will update you as we get more well. It is 113 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: going to be another busy newsweek for Tesla investors. There's 114 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: an investor Day today, their companies reporting earnings later this week. 115 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: Of course, it was the ongoing SEC case between Elon 116 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,559 Speaker 1: Musk and the SEC. There's also a recent car fire 117 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: in China, so plenty to talk about. Let's break it 118 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: down with Max Chafkin. Max is a feature editor for 119 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us live in our Bloombrook 120 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: Interactive broker studio. Max I think where I want to 121 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: start is probably the most recent news, which is this 122 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: disagreement with Panasonic. And that's not good because Panasonic provides 123 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: the lithium batteries for the car. Correct. Yeah, yeah, Panasonic 124 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: is the main partner in Tesla's Giga factory, which is 125 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: this enormous, uh you know, at the time, unprecedented uh 126 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: scale lithium ion battery factory outside Arena, Nevada. Um. You know, Panasonic, 127 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: I believe it's a couple of weeks ago, came out 128 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: sort of saying they were going to slow down, that 129 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: there wasn't enough demand for for for the investments they 130 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: were putting in. Elon Musk taking issue with that and um, 131 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: you know, basically saying that that they're they're still sort 132 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: of waiting for more from Panasonic. Um. And again this 133 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: comes into this you know, crazy week where we have 134 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: earnings coming up on Wednesday, um, as well as this 135 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: big autonomy day that that that we should see in 136 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: a few hours. To me, this is a quintessential week 137 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: that shows how Tesla has lost control over its message. 138 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: Because Elon Musk is under fire from the SEC for 139 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: his tweeting habits, they're trying to hold some event where 140 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: they're to talk about autonomous driving. No one's expecting much 141 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: of anything out of that, right, I mean, this is 142 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: not necessarily going to be something that's a landmark event 143 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: for them, amid all of the hubbub around the fire, 144 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: around the Panasonic dispute, around the fact that people are 145 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: expecting their deliveries to be lower at this next earnings report. 146 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: I mean, am my characterizing was wrong? Well, I mean 147 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, I think guys, that is 148 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: definitely a legitimate but you know point of view. It's 149 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: a point of view you'll hear from from lots and 150 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: lots of smart Wall Street investors. Um Tesla has also, 151 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, in Elon Musk has as a track record 152 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: of coming out with these kind of wild, you know, 153 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: really amazing UM product announcements and and maybe that's what 154 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: we'll see um. You know, the thing is and and 155 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: and the reason you might doubt that is because we 156 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: have this earnings you know, this earnings incoming where everyone's 157 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: expecting kind of not a great quarter. So it kind 158 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: of feels like a bit of a distraction. Also, when 159 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: does he have time to work on this incredible thing? 160 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: And with what money aren't they cutting staff? I'm serious, Like, 161 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: doesn't that seriously inhibit their ability to create moonshot ideas 162 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: that are absolutely going to revolutionize the concept of driving. 163 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah so, and we should probably just say what this 164 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: what this announcement or what we think this announcement is 165 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: going to be. We we think it's gonna be an 166 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: announcement basically that that Tesla is very close to having 167 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, full self driving capability, which people are going 168 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: to debate what that means. And also that it's it's 169 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: planning you know, self driving taxi service, so sort of 170 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: like Uber lift thing. Um. Now, I should say, first 171 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: of all, the conventional wisdom in the self driving car 172 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: world is that you know, Google is wildly ahead of 173 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: every competitor, that that Tesla isn't anywhere close. Um. The 174 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: The other piece of conventional wisdom from what you hear 175 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: from executives from like Ford and and the big car 176 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: companies is that you know, self driving cars are like 177 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: ten years off, not not a year off, like like 178 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: Elon Musk says. Now, the thing is there there are 179 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: things about what Tesla has done that are really impressive. 180 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: I mean, the company has been much faster in terms 181 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: of getting these kind of pseudo autonomy like services they're 182 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: you know called ADAS Advanced driver Assistance services. I think, 183 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: um uh and and and getting those out into the 184 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: public and getting people to kind of um embrace them. 185 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: And I think when you look at like, well, what's 186 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: it gonna take to have self driving cars? Part of 187 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: this is a technology thing. Part of it as a 188 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: marketing thing. And I think if you're if your critic, 189 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: you might say, well, they've they've focused a little bit 190 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: too much on the marketing. They've been saying sing that 191 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: they have self full self driving capabilities, but what are those? 192 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: But but marketing is important and getting getting consumers excited 193 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: about this is is something. So so we'll see. I mean, 194 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: I don't think it's at all clear that I don't 195 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: think it's clear that Tesla has nothing, but I do 196 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: think there are there are reasons for sure to be skeptical. 197 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: So speaking of being skeptical, where are we with or 198 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: where is Elon Musk in the company with the sec 199 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: right now? It seems like I know they were in 200 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: court last week. Um seems like something has to move here. Well, 201 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: they're they're you know, doing court ordered negotiations to come 202 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: up with a settlement with the SEC. And and one 203 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: thing that makes this um, this kind of settlement kind 204 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: of hard to get your head around is because basically, 205 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: for months, uh, Elon Musk and Testla kind of thumb 206 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: his nose at the SEC in the face of this um, 207 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: of this agreement they had to to you know, vet 208 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: his tweets and all that stuff. Um. Now now the 209 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: SEC says, well, Elon Musk has violated the settlement, and 210 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of unclear what what what the what's going 211 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: to happen. I assume some sort of fine. I mean, 212 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: in theory, the SEC could get Elon Musk removed a CEO. UM. 213 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: The thing is that would probably be very bad for 214 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: Tesla investors, and it's hard to imagine the SEC, uh sorry, 215 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: a court, you know, wanting to seeing that as a 216 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: as a reasonable outcome. Just to give you some perspective, 217 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: Tesla shares down a little bit more than three per 218 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: cent today as all of this news piles on, even 219 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: as they prepared to release their autonomous vehicle announcement that 220 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what the substance will be, but 221 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: there is hope that perhaps it will provide something novel Max, 222 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: just real quickly, here are there are the bulls still strong? 223 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: I mean, basically, are there still this sort of like 224 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: kadra of bulls that can't be shaken from their elon 225 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: musk faith? Yeah, of course the bulls uh hard to say. 226 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: I mean I think, you know, we see the stock 227 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: price going down. I guess we have to say, you know, 228 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: it's shrinking slightly or something like that. I think that 229 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: the bull case for Tesla's kind of stayed the same. 230 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: It's it's that know, they're selling tons of these cars 231 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: and that there they have, you know, a leg up 232 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: in terms of the next generation of cars, b that 233 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: electric or autonomous. Max Chafkin, Bloomberg Business Features Editor, Smart 234 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: and Tesla Smart and a lot of things. Thank you 235 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: so much for being with us. One of the biggest 236 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: uncertainties hanging over markets has been the ongoing tensions between 237 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: US and China over the trade relationship between these two nations. 238 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: There is a question I have though, not just will 239 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: the US and China come to some agreement, but how 240 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: damaging has this uncertainty been already? And joining us now 241 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: to talk about that as well as the path forward. 242 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: David Lovinger, he's senior analysts covering emerging markets for tc W, 243 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: which manages more than and billion dollars. Also, he was 244 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: a senior coordinator for China at the Treasury Department, UH 245 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: so he has extensive experience with Chinese diplomacy. David, thank 246 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. I want to 247 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: start with this story I read in the Wall Street 248 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: Journal over the weekend that was talking about how CEO 249 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: is the C suites at companies in the US and 250 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: China are making big decisions that are not reversible in 251 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: the short term, regardless of how these trade tensions are 252 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: play out. How does this affect business in the long term. Well, Lisa, first, 253 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. You know, I think you kind 254 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: of nailed one of the most important kind of risks 255 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: with the trade war. UM, I think more concerning to 256 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: a lot of investors is not necessarily the tariffs, but 257 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: the uncertainty about market access. And I have to thank you. Know, 258 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: if you're a business and you're thinking about making a 259 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: major investment, your first instinct is just to hold off 260 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: until you know what your market access is going to 261 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: be and what your cost of components is going to be. So, David, 262 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: it's interesting. I mean, at this stage, do you have 263 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: a sense of what type of agreement can be reached 264 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: between the US and trying to reading the tea leaves 265 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: it would be more of a kind of a headline 266 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: type of agreement, or do you expect some real substance 267 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: on some of the key issues. Um. What you know, 268 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: clearly both sides are working hard to get an agreement, 269 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: and you know, I still think it looks likely we'll 270 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: get something by the end of June. But I think 271 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: again you kind of raised the right question, what you know, 272 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: what are we going to get? Um? And you know, 273 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: there seems to be kind of three factions on the 274 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: U s side. Uh, there's the just buy more stuff faction. 275 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: There's kind of the US corporate faction that is focusing 276 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: on market access, protecting intellectual property and level leveling the 277 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: playing field with staying on enterprises. And then there's the 278 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: uh China Hawks, and I think you know their goal 279 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: is to kind of weaken and isolate China. So UM, 280 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: you know, the big questions is what's going to happen 281 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: to the tariff I think the US wants to retain 282 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: a lot of the tariffs for leverage. I think unless 283 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: we see a lot of the tariffs coming off, that's 284 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: kind of a hard deal for the Chinese to sell 285 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: back home. And then also kind of what kind of 286 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: enforcement mechanisms you're going to get, um, I think if 287 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: you you know, if I'm pressed, I'd say we're going 288 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: to see probably the temper cent tariffs on two billion 289 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: dollars of US imports come off, but ont and imports 290 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: day on. I mean, talk about the uncertainty. We often 291 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: focus on US companies and the consequences for them. Chinese companies, though, 292 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: I have also very big consequences, and not just in 293 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: China but throughout emerging markets in Asia. I'm just one 294 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: ring from your perspective. Have the ongoing trade tensions between 295 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: the US and China been incredibly harmful for for certain 296 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: Asian nations other than China or helpful as supplied chains 297 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: move to, say Vietnam. Yeah, So I'd say, you know, 298 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: the big picture is Asia is a region that still 299 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: depends on trade. So to the extent that the US 300 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: in Europe and other countries maybe turning more protectionists, that's 301 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: bad for Asia. Uh, this is going to be destabilizing 302 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: for Asian supply chains. But on the other hand, you're 303 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: right I think we will see some more investment going 304 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: to other Asian economies, and in some ways it'll just 305 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: be an acceleration of what's been going on for a 306 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: number of years now. Wage costs are rising in China, 307 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: We're already seen more and more investment going to places 308 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: like Vietnam. So, David Um, we've seen some data come 309 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: out of the last several months that the economic situation 310 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: in China is maybe stabilizing a little bit. Um. Does 311 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: that give them or to what extent do you think 312 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: that gives them maybe some leverage in the negotiations and 313 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: the trade negotiations. Yeah, so I think kind of the 314 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: green shots that we're seeing coming out of China, along 315 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: with the kind of relatively buoyant markets in the US, 316 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: I think stiff in the backs of both sides, and 317 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: you know, give both sides less of incentive to take 318 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: a bad deal that would be politically costly at home. 319 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: And that's you know, another reason why I'm just cautious 320 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: about what we're going to see at by the end 321 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: of June. So I'm just trying to figure out with 322 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: all of the sort of doom and gloom around the 323 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: trade tensions, do you think that they've been worse than 324 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: people expected or better than people expected. So far, what 325 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: do you give it as far as great? Okay, So 326 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: I'd say a year or two ago, if you had 327 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: told me that there were going to be US tariffs 328 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 1: on two or fifty billion dollars of imports from China, 329 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: I would have said that would have been kind of 330 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: a downside tail risk. So I think things are definitely 331 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: worse than people expected. Keep in mind, we got the tarraf, 332 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: but whatever happens on the tariff, we have the tech war, 333 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,479 Speaker 1: and um, the US is gonna would continue to go 334 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: after Chinese tech firms. They're going to tighten controls on 335 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: exports of technology to China, They're going to tighten controls 336 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: on Chinese investment in US tech firms, and they're going 337 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 1: around the world trying to convince allies and other economies 338 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: not to use Chinese technology and their telecommunication systems. So, David, 339 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: the news we had today about the Iranian oil and 340 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: the and the restrictions there, we saw that China is 341 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: the biggest importer of Iranian oil. How much is that 342 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: going to impact maybe the trade negotiations. Are they gonna 343 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: say that, hey, this is not a coincidence. Um so, 344 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the Iran oil is a bit 345 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: separate from the trade negotiations. But the big takeaway from me, 346 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: and I was just in Washington for the I M 347 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: S Spring meetings, is do not underestimate the power of 348 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: the hardliners in China hawks uh in Washington, they have 349 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: been gaining strength, and I think, you know, the decision 350 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 1: over the weekend on Iran reflects that absolutely. David Lovinger, 351 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much. David is a sovereign analyst covering 352 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: Emerging Markets Group at TCW Jointings on the phone from 353 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. At least it's interesting. I think the trade 354 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: negotiations the real questions, I guess. And now we're talking 355 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: about potentially a June time train for an announcement. The 356 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: real question I think bump Pople's minds is is it 357 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: going to be real or is it just going to 358 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: be a headline? So we'll have to wait and see. 359 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: It is Earth Day and there is no better person 360 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: Paul than I can imagine speaking with right now than 361 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: Brian D's. He has global head of Sustainable Investing for 362 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: black Rock, which is very impressive in and of itself, 363 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: but he also was a senior advisor to US President 364 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: Barack Obama and served as the Deputy Director of the 365 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: Office of Management and Budget. He was an a deputy 366 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: director at the National Economic Council, etcetera, etcetera. We could 367 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: go on and on, but we're not going to because Brian, 368 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: I want to get right to it, and it really 369 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: goes to the heart of what you have experience in 370 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: where does public responsibility leave off and private investing responsibility 371 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: pick up? In other words, how much can the private 372 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: sector do if public policies aren't as saily where they 373 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: ought to be when it comes to protecting the earth. Well, 374 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: thanks la So and it's good to talk on on 375 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: on Earth Day on this subject. Look, I think that 376 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: this is a question that we spent a lot of 377 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: time in when I used to work in government and 378 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: here a lot in the private sector. And I think 379 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: the answer is um. The answer is decidedly both that 380 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, UM, the transition to 381 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: global transition, the mega trend to transition to a lower 382 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: carbon economy is going to be driven both by UM 383 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: public policies and it's also going to be driven by 384 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: innovation in the private capital markets. Everything from early stage 385 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: innovation and technology up to UM innovations in the ways 386 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: that the capital markets are identifying risks and an allocating 387 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: capital against it, and so the interaction between those two 388 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: is is complicated in nuanced and it depends on geography 389 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: or otherwise. But at the end of the day, the 390 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: answer is a combination of both. So, Brian E s 391 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: G investing, let's just spell it out, Environmental sustainability and governance. UM, 392 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: it's we know it's become increasingly important to investors. Even 393 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal on the f A function, which 394 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: is one of the most widely hit functions on the terminal, 395 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: there is a lot of E s G data for 396 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: each company that Bloomberg has, So it's very important talk 397 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: to us about the data that is available to investors. 398 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: Is it out there so that they can make informed decisions. Yeah. Look, 399 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: I think the first important thing to reinforce here is that, 400 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: at least from our perspective, sustainability related issues are and 401 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: should be integrated into the way that you think about 402 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: investing from the perspective of risk and return. So when 403 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: we think about these sustainability related issues and the data 404 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: companying them, we're thinking about how can we actually improve 405 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: long term investment performance. So this is about value and 406 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: not just values. That's point number one. Point number two 407 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: is that the data is complicated in sufficient in lots 408 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: of ways, but has improved dramatically such that there really, 409 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: um is data out there to measure these risks and 410 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: these opportunities in a more granular way. Um. And we're 411 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: in It's Earth today today. We're talking in particular about 412 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: climate related risks, and our research has underscored that. Um, 413 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: it's not straightforward, but if you actually measure these risks 414 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: down to the municipal or the asset level, you can 415 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: develop a much clearer picture of the risks that structure 416 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: or municipality are facing. Then we would have even just 417 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: a year or two you ago, Brian, what's the most 418 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: effective sustainable investment? In other words, is there something that 419 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: is sort of a sort of quintessential type of investment 420 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: if you want to be Earth friendly? Well, look, I 421 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: think the good news for investors is that the number 422 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: of options and the quality of the options to invest 423 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: sustainably is increasing dramatically. And so you know, we have 424 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: Alack Rock and across the industry are using the increased 425 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: data that is out there UM to generate more and 426 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: easier options. What kind of data are you talking about 427 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: in terms of emissions? Are in terms of waste? Sure? 428 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: So I mean you start with you start with the 429 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: basic data, like the what companies are disclosing in terms 430 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: of their greenhouse gas emissions, but you also want to 431 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: look at things like how much UM water are they 432 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: using UM, where they where those demands UM are they 433 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: in areas of the country or areas of the world 434 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: that will be particular water stressed, And likewise, how they 435 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: manage and process UM their waste. All three of those 436 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: issues are relevant, and you want to make sure that 437 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: you have data and integrate that data into UM into 438 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: an assessment of a company. And then that sounds very 439 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: intensive at an individual company level, but the advances in 440 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: data and in UM in in our investing tools enable 441 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: us to generate core portfolio holding blocks that investors can 442 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: integrate into their investment strategies that are have a sustainable 443 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: tilt to them, but still deliver the risk return and 444 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: the long term financial outcomes that they are they're focused on. 445 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: So UM So there are elements of this that are 446 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: very complicated because you have to understand how to measure 447 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: these things at the company level. But the good news 448 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: is that we're able to generate sustainable investing options that 449 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: are increasingly simple, straightforward, and the end investor can think 450 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: about building into in the way that they would their 451 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: core portfolio. Excellent. Brian D. S Thank you so much 452 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: for joining us on this Earth Day. Brian's global head 453 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: of sustainable investing for black Rock, joining us on the phone. 454 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. 455 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts 456 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on 457 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa bram Woyd's I'm on 458 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: Twitter at Lisa bram Woyd's one before the podcast. You 459 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio.