1
00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:06,280
Speaker 1: Aw Zone Media. Hello On, Welcome to this week's Better

2
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:20,680
Speaker 1: Offline Monologue. I'm your host ed ZiT Trump, and I

3
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:22,439
Speaker 1: know some of you are going to say, Ed, didn't

4
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,880
Speaker 1: you say we'd get a second part? Didn't you say

5
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 1: we get a second part? Ed? Where's the second part?

6
00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 1: It's coming tomorrow. You get a monologue as well. Good Lord.

7
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,839
Speaker 1: The complaints from some of you just kidding. You're all

8
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 1: very nice. Now, because I deeply hate myself, I decided

9
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,519
Speaker 1: to sit down and read case four to two four

10
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,280
Speaker 1: CV zero four seven two to two ygr from the

11
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,480
Speaker 1: United States District Court of West the Northern District to California. Nevertheless,

12
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,159
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, of course, is Elon Musk's lawsuit

13
00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,519
Speaker 1: against Open a I, filed in August. November of last year,

14
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,520
Speaker 1: there was an amended complaint. Nevertheless, Elon Musk is alleging

15
00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 1: multiple kinds of fraud, as well as violations of the

16
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 1: Sherman Act and to monopoly law from the late eighteen hundreds,

17
00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,319
Speaker 1: which most notably was the same law that might lead

18
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 1: to the breakup of Google's ad taken search businesses. Elon Musk,

19
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,559
Speaker 1: he's suing, and he loves to sue, but in Layman terms.

20
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 1: Musk alleges that Sam Wortman tricked him into funding open

21
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,920
Speaker 1: ai as a charity when he actually wanted it to

22
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,840
Speaker 1: be more like a for profit entity, a classical start

23
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 1: up model. Musk also alleges a conspiracy by open ai

24
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: to stop people who invested in open ai from investing

25
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 1: in other generative AI companies, specifically Musk zons Ai as

26
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,160
Speaker 1: long as others like Anthropic. This sounds like some Musky

27
00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,520
Speaker 1: and bullshit, but this is actually true. It was reported

28
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,479
Speaker 1: by The Information and other outlets. The lawsuit itself is contrived,

29
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,880
Speaker 1: including annoying things like Musk's lawyers referring to open AI's

30
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 1: tax exempt nonprofit as a for profit market paralyzing Gorgan

31
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 1: Just you don't need to write like this. He fucking

32
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 1: loses anyway. It is pretty interesting, though, and it explores

33
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 1: the deeply weird beginnings of open ai itself. To explain

34
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 1: Joe and was originally founded in twenty fifteen by Elon Musk,

35
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 1: Sam Mortman and a selection of other engineers specifically as

36
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 1: a non profit making open source artificial intelligence, and it

37
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,120
Speaker 1: was meant to be a research house. Now another thing

38
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,800
Speaker 1: is it was specifically made as a reaction to Google's

39
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 1: acquisition of artificial intelligence firm deep Mind. The plan, according

40
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 1: to emails shared as part of the lawsuit, was to

41
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,240
Speaker 1: beat Google to the punch by making artificial general intelligence,

42
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,440
Speaker 1: you know, the entirely fictional concept of a conscious autonomous computer,

43
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 1: and then they go and open source it in what

44
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,880
Speaker 1: Sam Moortman called an AI Manhattan project. Just I could

45
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,639
Speaker 1: go into the history there, but is that really what

46
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,240
Speaker 1: you want to compare this anyway? Anyway? Aortmand would go

47
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,240
Speaker 1: on to tell Elon Musk that the mission would be

48
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,680
Speaker 1: to create the first general AI AGI and use it

49
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,400
Speaker 1: for an individual empowerment i e. The distributed version of

50
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,160
Speaker 1: the future that seems the safest. More generally, safety should

51
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,280
Speaker 1: be a first class requirement. And that is a quote,

52
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 1: by the way, with the technol owned by the foundation

53
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 1: referring to open AI and use for the gift of

54
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,920
Speaker 1: the world. Just a lot of bollocks really, Anyway. Things

55
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,880
Speaker 1: began to get tense in September twenty sixteen when Sam

56
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 1: Wortman arranged a deal with Microsoft to buy sixty million

57
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 1: dollars of Compute for Well for ten million dollars in

58
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,960
Speaker 1: exchange for evangelizing Microsoft as zero as their preferred cloud provider,

59
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 1: along with some sort of vague consultancy services over Microsoft's models.

60
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 1: Musk would respond to the terms by saying, fine with me.

61
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,400
Speaker 1: If they don't use the active messaging would be worth

62
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,920
Speaker 1: way more than fifty million. Nots seemed like a Microsoft's

63
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 1: marketing bitch. Two months later, Microsoft were put out a

64
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 1: blog post saying that open ai was choosing as zero

65
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 1: as their primary cloud platform and that open ai would

66
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 1: become an early adopter of as zure En series virtual machines,

67
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,160
Speaker 1: some of Microsoft's early GPU compute instances. It's been going

68
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 1: quite a while. A year later, in an exhibit from

69
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,320
Speaker 1: the trial from September twenty to twenty seventeen, things would

70
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 1: get a little more fraid with Iliasuitskava, a gifted engineer

71
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 1: recruited by Musk in AI's earliest days, sending an email

72
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 1: to both Musk and Aortman sharing concerns about the future.

73
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,320
Speaker 1: Aortman worried about how much money would cost the fund.

74
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 1: Open Ai had been considering finding a way to make

75
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 1: it a wouldn't you guess it? For profit entity, but

76
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,800
Speaker 1: Sitzkev had other problems and was far more worried about

77
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,120
Speaker 1: Altman and Musk. In the email, Suitzkeave of raised concerns

78
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,479
Speaker 1: that Elon Musk wanted unilateral absolute control over the AGI,

79
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,479
Speaker 1: and that while Musk had claimed otherwise in negotiating how

80
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,920
Speaker 1: to keep open Ai going, it was very clear that

81
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,480
Speaker 1: and I quote absolute control was extremely important to him.

82
00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,240
Speaker 1: As an example, Suitzkeaver added that Musk had said that

83
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: he needed to be CEO of the new company so

84
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 1: that everyone would know that he was the one in charge,

85
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,240
Speaker 1: even though he also stated that he hated being CEO

86
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,400
Speaker 1: and would much rather not be CEO. Suitzkeva added the

87
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 1: Musk's concerns that there would be an AGI dictatorship run

88
00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 1: by Demis Hassabis, CEO of Deep Mind, but that in

89
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,279
Speaker 1: the current structure that Musk was suggest he would become

90
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,599
Speaker 1: a dictator if he chose to all very good stuff.

91
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,160
Speaker 1: Siitzkav bizarrely then immediately moved on to say something very

92
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,279
Speaker 1: very similar to Sam Altman, saying that and I quote

93
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,360
Speaker 1: he didn't understand why the CEO title was so important,

94
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 1: and that Sam Altman's reasons had changed, and that it

95
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,920
Speaker 1: was really hard to understand what was driving them Siitzkev

96
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,839
Speaker 1: also added a question and I quote, is AGI truly

97
00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,160
Speaker 1: your primary motivation? How does it connect to your political goals?

98
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,080
Speaker 1: How has your thought process changed over time? Ortmand would

99
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 1: reassure Musk, both personally and through others, that he remained

100
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,599
Speaker 1: focused on open AI's nonprofit mission. In January twenty eighteen,

101
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,720
Speaker 1: Orton would suggest a ridiculous idea selling cryptocurrency to fund

102
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,360
Speaker 1: open Ai, which Musk would warn would simply result in

103
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 1: a massive loss of a credibility for open Ai everyone

104
00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 1: associated with the ico, referring of course, to an initial

105
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,920
Speaker 1: coin offering, a flimsy idea that just means just buy

106
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of tokens before the thing goes live, basically

107
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: how crypto works. I guess it was a whole boom.

108
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,800
Speaker 1: I'm not doing a fucking podcast about it. Let's move on.

109
00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,680
Speaker 1: Musk would step down from open ai in February twenty eighteen,

110
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,760
Speaker 1: and a month later, Sam Wonan would propose a fixed

111
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 1: maximum term equity race, essentially selling stock in open ai

112
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,040
Speaker 1: but an associated entity. Yet it was still a nonprofit

113
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: at the time, and that had a maximum amount you

114
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,760
Speaker 1: could make on buying it. It's just very confusing and

115
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,560
Speaker 1: What it basically means is it means that they would

116
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,960
Speaker 1: create an entity on the side that you could raise

117
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,400
Speaker 1: money for that would also own all the bits. I'll

118
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,200
Speaker 1: get to that in a second. Nevertheless, this is all

119
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: extremely dodgy and weird. Around a year later, in twenty nineteen,

120
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,159
Speaker 1: Sam Wonman would eventually create the legally precarious for profit

121
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 1: arm of open Ai what I was just talking about,

122
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,440
Speaker 1: and it was called open AILP and immediately, according to

123
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,359
Speaker 1: Elon Musk's lawsuit, transferred most of the company's assets and stuff.

124
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,000
Speaker 1: The same year, open Ai would strike an exclusive partnership

125
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,840
Speaker 1: with Microsoft to provide the compute for their models. As

126
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,360
Speaker 1: part of the deal, open Ai would give Microsoft full

127
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 1: license to use their pre AGI intellectual property and research,

128
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 1: which is to say, literally everything they've ever made, and

129
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,720
Speaker 1: this would in turn make well, this is the funny,

130
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 1: weird part. This is the really crazy. This is the

131
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 1: part that really gets me. They would own everything. Microsoft

132
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: would own everything until they hit AGI. Now, AGI at

133
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,480
Speaker 1: this point has been defined by open Ai and Microsoft

134
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 1: as when they hit one hundred billion dollars in profit.

135
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 1: Every time I read about and talk about this stuff,

136
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 1: I just think, who is the idiot? Here, is it

137
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,160
Speaker 1: Satching the Dellar, Is it Sam Altman or they both

138
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,880
Speaker 1: just the kind of mediocre rich guy who just bounces

139
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 1: their skulls together and they say who has the shittiest idea?

140
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 1: Who will be the dumbest boy today. Nevertheless, Microsoft owns

141
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: everything open Ai makes until they invent Agi, by which

142
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 1: I mean they make one hundred billion dollars in profit.

143
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,400
Speaker 1: It's all so goddamn stupid. It's also stupid. Now at

144
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 1: some point I want to do an entire episode on

145
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,640
Speaker 1: this lawsuit because it's got so many exhibits and so

146
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 1: many warring incentives. Elon Musk's Xai competes directly with open

147
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,520
Speaker 1: ai to make large language models that no one really

148
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,600
Speaker 1: needs and that cost more to run than they will

149
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,120
Speaker 1: ever make. And this lawsuit, as with others, features broad

150
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,640
Speaker 1: demands for discovering depositions of people at LinkedIn co founder

151
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,160
Speaker 1: and former open ai board member Read Hoffman, and attempts

152
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 1: to name both Microsoft and Hoffman himself as co defendants.

153
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: Since filing the lawsuit, and the Elon Musk led consortium

154
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 1: of Bias has offered ninety seven point four billion dollars

155
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,959
Speaker 1: for the assets of open AI's charity, an often that

156
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 1: would require multiple different government agencies to approve, which open

157
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: Aies board has now declined either way. While Musk is

158
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 1: regularly full of ship, he's right about one thing. Sam

159
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: Woman clearly had no intention of ever keeping open ai

160
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 1: as nonprofit, nor was he ever dedicated to doing so,

161
00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,000
Speaker 1: or really anything of them make in himself CEO and

162
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 1: getting a billion dollars. Since twenty nineteen, open ai has

163
00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,520
Speaker 1: raised over twenty billion dollars in funding, and it's reportedly

164
00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,079
Speaker 1: raising as much as forty billion dollars in the next round,

165
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,880
Speaker 1: led by fucking Masayoshi son of soft Bank. It's so good.

166
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: I love it. And they're likely doing this because the

167
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,240
Speaker 1: company burned five billion dollars in twenty twenty four, and

168
00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 1: it is said to as much as double that in

169
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,160
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, according to estimates. Musk lawsuit is likely

170
00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,920
Speaker 1: an attempt to interfere with this funding or to destabilize

171
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,080
Speaker 1: open Ai. It's week its point, it's flimsy status as

172
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,120
Speaker 1: a nonprofit that will require a great deal of legal

173
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,760
Speaker 1: effort to unwind if it's even possible at all, And

174
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,000
Speaker 1: I must be clear it may not be possible. I

175
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 1: don't think there's any precedent of anyone ever taking a

176
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,440
Speaker 1: nonprofit of this size, of this weirdness connected to like

177
00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,920
Speaker 1: twenty different for profit entities, and turning it into a

178
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,040
Speaker 1: for profit. It just doesn't make sense. But I will

179
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 1: tell you something that might make you happy or might

180
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,800
Speaker 1: just make your laugh, which is open AI only has

181
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,880
Speaker 1: a a year and a half to do so, a

182
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,360
Speaker 1: year and a half to turn from a nonprofit into

183
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,439
Speaker 1: a for profit because a year and a half all

184
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 1: that equity they raised, but it's not equity, it's some

185
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 1: weird for profit sharing. Nevertheless, all the money they've raised

186
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,559
Speaker 1: in the last round, the six point something billion dollar one, yeah,

187
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 1: it all turns into debt. Oh well, I'm sure they'll

188
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 1: work it out. They sure haven't yet