WEBVTT - Listener Mail Grab Bag

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<v Speaker 1>Get in touch with technology with text Stuff from hast

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. Heyl and welcome to text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland,

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<v Speaker 1>and today I thought I would address some listener mail.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't done that in a while. And by address,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean read it and answer it, as opposed to

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<v Speaker 1>spinning out an address. You know what I meant at

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<v Speaker 1>any rate to We're going to be looking at several

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<v Speaker 1>questions and comments, including a correction, and also a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit later, I'm going to bring in a special mystery

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<v Speaker 1>guest to talk about one of the specific pieces that

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<v Speaker 1>were sent in to me. So let's get started. The

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<v Speaker 1>first message says, hello, longtime listener, first time emailer. I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to slip in a quick correction in regards to

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<v Speaker 1>the Aircraft Carriers episode. In the episode, you said that

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<v Speaker 1>the US aircraft carrier, the Hornet, was sunk. It's actually not.

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<v Speaker 1>It's anchored in Oakland, California, across the Bay from San Francisco,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's open as a museum to teach visitors about

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<v Speaker 1>how aircraft carriers work. The flight deck, maintenance deck, and

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<v Speaker 1>some lower decks are open to explore with or without

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<v Speaker 1>a tour. The island and engine room are open for tours.

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<v Speaker 1>There's even an Apollo capsule on board, as the Hornet

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<v Speaker 1>was the recovery ship for two Apollo missions. If you're

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<v Speaker 1>ever in or around Oakland, check it out. Regards Alan, Alan,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for sending in that correction. That's really awesome. The

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<v Speaker 1>Hornet was one of the stories that I thought was

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<v Speaker 1>particularly cool, and uh, and on it was an honest

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<v Speaker 1>mistake on my part. I had so many notes about

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<v Speaker 1>so many different aircraft carriers, and I should have been

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<v Speaker 1>more careful making sure that all of those were accurate.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh, Scott is not his fault at all. It's

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<v Speaker 1>all on me. I shall admonish myself repeatedly. Next, Dan

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<v Speaker 1>from Twitter asked, did I buy an Apple Uch? No? Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>well we're ready to move on. Well, I guess I

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<v Speaker 1>can address this a little further. Uh, I did not

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<v Speaker 1>buy an Apple watch. I don't have an iPhone, so

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<v Speaker 1>an Apple watch would be useless to me, and I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to invest in an iPhone just to get

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<v Speaker 1>an Apple watch. That would end up being an incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>expensive endeavor. I mean, you're talking around bucks for the watch,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's you know, before you really start looking at

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<v Speaker 1>really nice bands. Or anything like that. Then you've got

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<v Speaker 1>another couple of hundred bucks for the iPhone, plus the

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<v Speaker 1>monthly fee for it and everything, and all of my

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<v Speaker 1>stuff is currently in the Android operating system universe. I

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<v Speaker 1>use a Nexus six as my smartphone. That's not a

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<v Speaker 1>plug for Android, it's not a plug for the Nexus

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<v Speaker 1>line of phones. I like it, and I'm used to it,

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<v Speaker 1>and all of my stuff is in that ecosystem, so

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<v Speaker 1>it would be very arduous to switch to a different

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<v Speaker 1>one at this point. I think the Apple Watches an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting product. I'm curious how well it will do in

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<v Speaker 1>the long run. As I record this, there are plenty

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<v Speaker 1>of stories about the Apple Watch getting some recalls because

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<v Speaker 1>of a faulty vibrating motor that's in some of them,

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<v Speaker 1>and that the production may have slowed down quite a bit,

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<v Speaker 1>which means it's going to take even longer for people

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<v Speaker 1>to get their pre ordered watches. Um it's it's a

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<v Speaker 1>bit of an issue for Apple, And honestly, the wearables

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<v Speaker 1>field is still one of those where a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people are expressing a lot of skepticism about, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>what's actually the utility of a smart watch? Is there

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<v Speaker 1>a need for it? Um, I own a Pebble, which

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<v Speaker 1>I would say is a smart ish watch. It is

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<v Speaker 1>good for giving me notifications that are coming through my phone,

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<v Speaker 1>which is actually really useful for me. I don't always

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<v Speaker 1>notice when my phone vibrates in my pocket, even though

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<v Speaker 1>the next of six is as large as some countries.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't always notice when it's vibrating. However, the motor

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<v Speaker 1>that's inside my watch, when it vibrates on my wrist,

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<v Speaker 1>I absolutely noticed that. And uh, it gives me the

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<v Speaker 1>notifications of who is calling or if I've received a

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<v Speaker 1>text message or some other notification. And I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>That to me is perfect, And uh, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's not super high tech as far as smart watches go.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like there's a whole bunch of other usefulness

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<v Speaker 1>with it, apart from some of the cool apps you

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<v Speaker 1>can have, and you can do some controls with your smartphone,

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<v Speaker 1>like advancing through tracks in an audio list, that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of thing. That stuff is interesting and neat, but it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't have a whole lot of utility beyond that. The

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<v Speaker 1>Apple Watch obviously is supposed to be more robust, and

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<v Speaker 1>I hope it does well because I want to see

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of technology. This, this whole branch of technology

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<v Speaker 1>continue and advance and evolve. And my worry is that

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<v Speaker 1>if the Apple Watch ultimately does not do well, because

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<v Speaker 1>it's such a high profile product, it could sink the

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<v Speaker 1>entire branch of technology or set it back by a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of years. It kind of reminds me of the

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<v Speaker 1>days when virtual reality things were coming out and people

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<v Speaker 1>were first getting a chance to actually use them, and

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<v Speaker 1>they became disappointed, disenchanted with the technology that they thought

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<v Speaker 1>was going to be amazing and turned out not to

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<v Speaker 1>be as amazing as they had hoped, and it's set

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<v Speaker 1>the entire field back by at least five years because

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<v Speaker 1>no one wanted to fund something that people no longer

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<v Speaker 1>had any interest or faith in. So my hope is

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<v Speaker 1>that the Apple Watch does well. I do not plan

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<v Speaker 1>to get one again, because I don't have an iPhone.

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<v Speaker 1>I may end up picking up a different smart watch.

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<v Speaker 1>There were a few that I supported on various crowdsourcing campaigns.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm still waiting on all three of the one that

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<v Speaker 1>I supported, one of which is not even a smart watch.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's a just a cool concept watch. And so

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think i'd be eager to jump on the

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<v Speaker 1>smart watch train even if I did have an iPhone,

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<v Speaker 1>simply because I've already spent money on watches that I

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<v Speaker 1>don't have. Um and that's another discussion for another day.

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<v Speaker 1>The entire idea of crowdsourcing, you know, crowdfunding a technology project.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that a good idea? What are the dangers? I

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<v Speaker 1>should probably do a full episode about that. I know

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<v Speaker 1>I've talked about once or twice in previous episodes, but

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<v Speaker 1>we should probably go into an in depth discussion about

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<v Speaker 1>what is What should your expectations be if you participate

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<v Speaker 1>in that sort of thing. So there's your long answer

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<v Speaker 1>to your simple question. Uh no, And because all right,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll move on to the next one. Luke on Twitter

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<v Speaker 1>asks how soon I expect we'll see stores like Kinko's

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<v Speaker 1>get three D printers for customers to us. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's actually gonna be probably at least a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>years further down the line from the thing I think

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<v Speaker 1>three D pryers are really going to be useful for

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<v Speaker 1>is gonna be on demand fabrication for small businesses, meaning

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<v Speaker 1>that instead of having a giant furniture store with an

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<v Speaker 1>enormous warehouse, like Ikea, where you've got, you know, tons

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<v Speaker 1>of inventory, and you have no way of knowing how

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<v Speaker 1>how well one is going to sell versus other versions

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<v Speaker 1>of the same sort of stuff, Like how how well

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<v Speaker 1>is this one cabinet gonna sell compared to this other cabinet,

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<v Speaker 1>both of which have Norwegian or Danish or Swedish or

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<v Speaker 1>Swiss or some Scandinavian name that has far more oom

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<v Speaker 1>louds than is remotely necessary. Um, how well is that

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<v Speaker 1>going to sell versus any other one? You have to

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<v Speaker 1>keep enough in stock so that you meet whatever demands

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<v Speaker 1>you expect there to be, but there's no way of

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<v Speaker 1>knowing from one day to the next how popular an

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<v Speaker 1>item is going to be, even if you put one

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<v Speaker 1>on sale and one's not on sale. Three D printers, however,

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<v Speaker 1>can let you get around that. You don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>have a huge warehouse to store all of your inventory.

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<v Speaker 1>You can have essentially a storage space for the raw

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<v Speaker 1>material for your printer, and then you create the items

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<v Speaker 1>on demand when you get in order. So if someone

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<v Speaker 1>wants a particular cabinet, you print out the parts and

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<v Speaker 1>then sell the kit to the customer. You don't have

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<v Speaker 1>to keep eight different types of cabinets and storage. You

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<v Speaker 1>just keep the digital plans and you print them as needed.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's gonna be a very popular business model

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<v Speaker 1>once we get to a point where these printers that

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<v Speaker 1>are are ready for commercial use like that fall into

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<v Speaker 1>the range that a small business can can actually make

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<v Speaker 1>that a workable business model. It's pretty expensive if you

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<v Speaker 1>want a really high quality three D printer, especially one

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<v Speaker 1>that can produced on an industrial level, even a small

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<v Speaker 1>industrial level, asked for things like Kinko's. I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna take more time. Uh. And I think there's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be some barriers as well, because obviously, you if you

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<v Speaker 1>are a business like Kinkos, you want to be able

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<v Speaker 1>to have at least some control over what is getting

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<v Speaker 1>sent to that three D printer. Uh. If it's something

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<v Speaker 1>that is illegal, for example, or the legality is questionable,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, a three D printed gun. That's that could

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<v Speaker 1>be a concern, especially if there were any crime associated

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<v Speaker 1>with that weapon down the line, and it gets brought

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<v Speaker 1>in that your establishment was the one that allowed it

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<v Speaker 1>to be printed. There could be some legal complications that.

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<v Speaker 1>I bet a lot of the big companies don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to get bogged down in and it may be that

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<v Speaker 1>eventually things work out where the accountability lies with other

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<v Speaker 1>other players and not the company that act is housing

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<v Speaker 1>the three D printer, in which case you know it

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<v Speaker 1>may be open season. No pun intended with the gun

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<v Speaker 1>thing to allow everyone to send whatever they want to

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<v Speaker 1>the printer, and as long as they're paying the rate

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<v Speaker 1>for however much plastic is going through the extruder, they're fine.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think we'll see the fabrication on demand model first.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, three D printers are already being used in

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<v Speaker 1>research and development as well as in manufacturing for other reasons.

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<v Speaker 1>But but the as far as customers getting access to

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<v Speaker 1>three D printers, I think it will be fabrication on demand,

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<v Speaker 1>where the company will be the one responsible for sending

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<v Speaker 1>the specific plan to the specific printer, and the customer

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<v Speaker 1>only says okay, I want this item, so they don't

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<v Speaker 1>get to say exactly what gets printed. And then maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of years later we'll see models where people

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<v Speaker 1>can send their their digital file to a printer directly

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<v Speaker 1>without having to just choose from a catalog of files.

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<v Speaker 1>Um In the meantime, you know there will be plenty

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<v Speaker 1>of people who will just go out and buy their

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<v Speaker 1>own three D printer. Depending upon how much money they spend,

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<v Speaker 1>the stuff they print may or may not look really great,

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<v Speaker 1>or it may look kind of clunky. I've seen some

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<v Speaker 1>three D printers where the the fidelity, the resolution is

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<v Speaker 1>incredible and you you can feel the edges of each layer,

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<v Speaker 1>but you can't really see them easily. And then I've

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<v Speaker 1>seen other ones where it's very apparent where each layer

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of overhanging the next layer by you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a millimeter or whatever, and it's very noticeable. Uh So

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<v Speaker 1>we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I suspect not.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, we'll go to the next question. Nathaniel from

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<v Speaker 1>Twitter asked how track pads register input. How does a

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<v Speaker 1>track pad know where your finger is? There are two

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<v Speaker 1>main ways that track pads are manufactured. There are resistive

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<v Speaker 1>track pads and capacitive track pads or touch pads. And

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<v Speaker 1>I know I've talked about this on the show before,

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<v Speaker 1>but it you know, I'll go ahead and explain how

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<v Speaker 1>these work because I think it is interesting. So the

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<v Speaker 1>resist of touch pads or track pads are the easiest

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<v Speaker 1>to understand. Um they're also not as not necessarily as

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<v Speaker 1>resilient as capacity, but we'll get there. So resistive touch

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<v Speaker 1>pads use a couple of different films with kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a uh electrodes. Well, one film will have an electrode

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<v Speaker 1>on it, uh, the next film like a sandwich filling

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<v Speaker 1>that one would be uh somewhat resistive, and then you

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<v Speaker 1>would have a bottom plate that would also have an

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<v Speaker 1>electrode on it. So you've got electrodes separated by a

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<v Speaker 1>resistive film. When you press down on the surface of

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<v Speaker 1>the top layer, it presses that electrode closer to the

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<v Speaker 1>other electrode on the bottom and you end up creating

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<v Speaker 1>essentially a circuit. There is a connection there. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you think about the two films as as sort of wires,

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<v Speaker 1>right like, you have a series of horizontal wires along

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<v Speaker 1>one film and vertical wires along the other electrode. Then

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<v Speaker 1>you've got a grid. So imagine you've got this grid there.

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<v Speaker 1>When you put pressure on the touch pad, it acts

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<v Speaker 1>like these It pushes these these two wires together at

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<v Speaker 1>some point on that grid, and by locating the the

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>area of connection along that grid, a computer knows, oh,

0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.960
<v Speaker 1>there has been a touch registered at this point on

0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the touch pad. So um, you know, it's almost like

0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 1>a spider web, right, So you've got this this grid

0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.600
<v Speaker 1>of connections and when you press down, it sends the signal,

0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 1>and by measuring that signal, the computer can tell where

0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:09.400
<v Speaker 1>along the touchpad you are touching. Capacity is a little different,

0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 1>so instead of instead of it being the series of

0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 1>wires and the physical connection is what indicates where there's

0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 1>a touch, Capacity creates an electric field when your finger

0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:26.560
<v Speaker 1>encounters that electric field. Really, any capacitive or conductive surface

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.720
<v Speaker 1>I should say, not capacity, but a conductive surface, it

0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 1>alters that electric field, and sensors inside the device can

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:41.400
<v Speaker 1>detect where that that point of contact is based upon

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.000
<v Speaker 1>the change of the electric field itself. Now, this is

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 1>why if you use gloves that don't have a conductive

0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.880
<v Speaker 1>surface on them, so they don't have like conductive thread

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.800
<v Speaker 1>woven into them or anything, it's very difficult to get

0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.120
<v Speaker 1>a capacitive touchscreen to work because you're you don't have

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 1>a conductive urface interfering with that electric field. Generally speaking,

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.600
<v Speaker 1>gloves don't tend to be conductive unless again, you have

0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 1>that conductive thread woven into them. It's also why I

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 1>remember a story from several years ago that people. I

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.760
<v Speaker 1>want to say it was in Japan, we're starting to

0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.400
<v Speaker 1>use hot dogs as a stylus for their smartphones when

0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.280
<v Speaker 1>it would get cold, so they would have gloves and

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 1>use a hot dog, which would be conductive if they

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:30.360
<v Speaker 1>would use that to make selections and commands on their phones. Um.

0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 1>So with the resistive approach, it's all dependent upon pressure

0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 1>you have to press, and if you're not pressing hard

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 1>enough to make the contact with those wires, then it

0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.680
<v Speaker 1>won't be registered. With the capacity of it's not dependent

0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 1>upon pressure. You don't need to push harder to make

0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 1>a stronger electric field, although it may by pressing harder

0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 1>indicate a larger surface area coming into contact with the screen,

0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 1>which you know, you could design a program that would

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 1>react differently depending upon how much pressure was applied, simply

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.560
<v Speaker 1>by many sharing how much surface areas being affected. Ah.

0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.280
<v Speaker 1>The problem with the resilience that was talking about earlier

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.440
<v Speaker 1>is that, at least with earlier resistive touch pads, the

0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 1>more you would move around, the more you would use it,

0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 1>the more it would start to wear down, and over

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.800
<v Speaker 1>time your touch pad would become less responsive because it

0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:25.280
<v Speaker 1>was starting to just wear away from use. Whereas capacitive ones.

0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, you don't have to have this hard contact

0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.720
<v Speaker 1>to make sure that it's registering a touch, and they

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>could last longer for a while. Capacity of touch pads

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 1>were much more expensive than resistive, so resistive we're very popular,

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.680
<v Speaker 1>particularly in industrial uses where you might have like a

0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.840
<v Speaker 1>tablet that has a resistive screen and it's meant for

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.040
<v Speaker 1>heavy duty use. There's no point in making it delicate

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.760
<v Speaker 1>because it was going to be in a tough environment anyway,

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.760
<v Speaker 1>and resistive was really popular. These days, the difference in

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.280
<v Speaker 1>price is not as great, so we mostly see capacity

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 1>of screens but reicularly in things like smartphones and tablets.

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 1>So I hope that answers that question. All right, let's

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:18.240
<v Speaker 1>move on to the next email. This one comes from

0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Greg and says, Hey, Jonathan, I enjoy your show Tech

0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.640
<v Speaker 1>Stuff and forward Thinking a lot. Y'all are some real

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.040
<v Speaker 1>gangster's thanks. I don't really think of myself as gangster.

0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.360
<v Speaker 1>That's that's a new one for me. So you did

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:34.080
<v Speaker 1>an episode on TV Connectors recently and mentioned impedance gain

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.400
<v Speaker 1>and attenuation and then said that could be its own podcast.

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.320
<v Speaker 1>So I'd love to hear a podcast about those topics.

0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Maybe also explain decibels as well. All right, Greg, here goes.

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.840
<v Speaker 1>This is gonna be an attempt on my part to

0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 1>explain these concepts. First of all, I gotta come clean,

0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.320
<v Speaker 1>because you know, have you ever had that experience where

0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.119
<v Speaker 1>you encounter a word and you have to say the

0:17:56.160 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 1>word out loud, and then you realize as you're about

0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 1>to say the word out loud that you have never

0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 1>really heard that word spoken before, or if you had,

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.199
<v Speaker 1>you hadn't really paid attention, and so you just have

0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 1>to give a wild guess as to how it's pronounced,

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 1>and then you guess wrong. Because that is exactly what

0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.880
<v Speaker 1>happened to me the last time I talked about impedance.

0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:23.160
<v Speaker 1>I believe I meant I pronounced it impedence, which, while hilarious,

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 1>is not correct. So if any of my listeners out

0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:31.399
<v Speaker 1>there tried to follow my lead and found themselves in

0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:37.240
<v Speaker 1>socially awkward situations because of their pronunciation, I humbly apologize, Um,

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 1>but no, that was definitely one of those cases where

0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.280
<v Speaker 1>in my brain I'm like, oh, it has to be

0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.440
<v Speaker 1>spelled like are pronounced like this because the way it's spelled,

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:47.879
<v Speaker 1>and I was absolutely wrong. And in fact, if I

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.679
<v Speaker 1>had thought about it for a second, I would have

0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.240
<v Speaker 1>realized how wrong I was, because it's about impeding. It's

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.920
<v Speaker 1>impedence because it impedes the flow of electricity. But I'm

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.160
<v Speaker 1>getting ahead of myself. So when when we talk about impedance,

0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.760
<v Speaker 1>we need to first talk about voltage. And for those

0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.159
<v Speaker 1>of you who have taken physics and you know all

0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:16.159
<v Speaker 1>about circuitry and voltage and current uh and resistance, I apologize,

0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.240
<v Speaker 1>But in order to explain impedance, I kind of have

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.720
<v Speaker 1>to lay some groundwork, So just stick with me here.

0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Voltage is the difference in electrical energy charge of electrical

0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 1>potential energy between two points. Uh. And that sounds weird,

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.280
<v Speaker 1>but another way to look at is that voltage is

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.240
<v Speaker 1>how we describe an electric field. We measure electric fields

0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.159
<v Speaker 1>and volts over a distance, so you have to have

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.560
<v Speaker 1>a difference in voltage in order for current to flow.

0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Another way of thinking that is you need to have

0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.960
<v Speaker 1>an excess of electrons on one side of your circuit

0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.120
<v Speaker 1>and a place for electrons to go on the other

0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.000
<v Speaker 1>side of your circuit, and that is a difference in voltage.

0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.040
<v Speaker 1>You have a positive charge on one side and a

0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.080
<v Speaker 1>negative charge on the other. And that allows the electrons

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.399
<v Speaker 1>to move from negative to positive. We won't go into

0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.800
<v Speaker 1>the difference between the flow of electrons and the flow

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:08.919
<v Speaker 1>of current here. I know I've talked about that in

0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.440
<v Speaker 1>previous episodes of tech Stuff, and it's not really relevant

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.480
<v Speaker 1>in this case. You just need to know that voltage

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:19.200
<v Speaker 1>is this difference in electric charge and electric potential energy

0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:23.960
<v Speaker 1>between two points across some distance. When you apply voltage

0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.200
<v Speaker 1>to a circuit, that's when you induce electricity to flow

0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.359
<v Speaker 1>through that circuit. Now, the circuit is made of some

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.879
<v Speaker 1>sort of conductive material. Now, conductive material doesn't allow electricity

0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:38.879
<v Speaker 1>to flow through effortlessly. There's an opposition to the flow

0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:43.199
<v Speaker 1>of electricity, and it's called resistance. And resistance depends upon

0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:47.639
<v Speaker 1>a couple of different factors um well several. Actually, it

0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.000
<v Speaker 1>depends upon the material. It depends upon how much the

0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:52.720
<v Speaker 1>material is there. In other words, if you have a

0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.840
<v Speaker 1>very small copper wire that actually has a much higher

0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:01.320
<v Speaker 1>resistance than say, very thick copper cable. It also depends

0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:06.840
<v Speaker 1>upon temperature. You know, super cooling semiconductors can reduce the

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 1>resistance to near zero or effectively zero, and you get

0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, free and clear electricity. Flowing through without any resistance,

0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.320
<v Speaker 1>and you know, otherwise what happens is the opposition to

0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:23.359
<v Speaker 1>that electrical flow will end up having you uh, you know,

0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.399
<v Speaker 1>the component will actually start to generate heat. And this

0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.919
<v Speaker 1>is where we talk about how efficient and electronic devices.

0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:32.639
<v Speaker 1>If it's generating a lot of heat, you're losing a

0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.240
<v Speaker 1>lot of energy to heat. That electricity is being converted

0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.639
<v Speaker 1>into heat energy and not doing whatever it was you

0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:41.760
<v Speaker 1>were hoping for it to do, unless, of course, it

0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:43.920
<v Speaker 1>was a heating component, in which case it's doing exactly

0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 1>what you wanted it to do. So that's resistance. Now.

0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.800
<v Speaker 1>In direct current circuits, resistance suffices as the term we

0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:58.880
<v Speaker 1>use for this phenomenon. But with alternating current a C applications,

0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 1>these are different because the current alternates. It flows in

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.960
<v Speaker 1>one direction the circuit and then flows in the opposite direction. Uh.

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.200
<v Speaker 1>And it does this in cycles different frequencies that will

0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.239
<v Speaker 1>usually it's in a single frequency, but the frequencies can

0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.919
<v Speaker 1>vary depending upon the technology we're talking about. So in

0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.520
<v Speaker 1>this case we don't use the term resistance. We actually

0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:26.120
<v Speaker 1>use a different term, and that is impedance because uh,

0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:31.240
<v Speaker 1>impedance relies on two factors, not just the magnitude, which

0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 1>is pretty much what resistance is considered concerned with, but

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:39.240
<v Speaker 1>the phase of the of the system as well. UH

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:44.360
<v Speaker 1>So impedance impedes the flow of electricity, but it consists

0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:47.840
<v Speaker 1>of reactants as well as resistance, and reactance is the

0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 1>extent to which a circuit stores and releases energy as

0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 1>the current and voltage fluctuate with each alternating current cycle.

0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:01.399
<v Speaker 1>So we describe reactance in terms terms of ohms, and

0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:05.399
<v Speaker 1>it really only applies to a C circuits. Reactance allows

0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:08.640
<v Speaker 1>us to use circuit components such as capacitors and inductors.

0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Capacitors store energy in an electric field and inductor's store

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:17.160
<v Speaker 1>energy in a magnetic field, and both can operate as

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 1>resistors and they don't generate heat the same way that

0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.800
<v Speaker 1>resistors do, so they're very useful in a C circuitry.

0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 1>So that's impedance. Uh it's an important factor whenever you're

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.720
<v Speaker 1>designing any kind of electronic component that has that's working

0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 1>on a C. Next, we have gain, which is the

0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:37.919
<v Speaker 1>next thing that that Greg asked us about. This is

0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:42.359
<v Speaker 1>also known as the amplification factor, and it gives you

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:44.920
<v Speaker 1>some clue as to what's going on with gain. It's

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:48.280
<v Speaker 1>all about amplifying a signal to boost its strength from

0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:52.720
<v Speaker 1>input to output. So you've got an incoming signal, then

0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.240
<v Speaker 1>you use a means of amplification to increase the strength

0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:59.919
<v Speaker 1>of that signal, so it's the same frequency but greater amplitude,

0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:02.919
<v Speaker 1>and then you put it through the output. This is

0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:05.840
<v Speaker 1>used in all sorts of applications. The easiest one to

0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:12.040
<v Speaker 1>imagine happens to be sound, where a microphone will convert

0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:16.840
<v Speaker 1>acoustic waves into electrical impulses that then will go to

0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:20.600
<v Speaker 1>a an amplifier before going to a speaker in order

0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:23.359
<v Speaker 1>to strengthen the signals so that you can get an

0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:26.400
<v Speaker 1>audible acoustic wave on the other end once you get

0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.680
<v Speaker 1>through the stereo. But amplifiers are used for all sorts

0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:34.360
<v Speaker 1>of technology, not just acoustic technology. At any rate, we

0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.960
<v Speaker 1>express gain in terms of decibels, and this is where

0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:41.919
<v Speaker 1>things get a little confusing for people often because I

0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:44.480
<v Speaker 1>think a lot of people are familiar with decibels as

0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 1>a means of measuring the volume of sound. But it's

0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:52.600
<v Speaker 1>be It's not just the volume of sound, it's the

0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:56.680
<v Speaker 1>strength of signals. And the decibel is a logarithmic unit,

0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:00.200
<v Speaker 1>which makes it a little tricky to understand, particularly you're

0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:03.440
<v Speaker 1>mostly familiar with them. In terms of that sound magnitude

0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:07.760
<v Speaker 1>gains more about um in electronics anyway, it's about electric

0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:11.760
<v Speaker 1>signal strength, not about sound volume. Uh. And decibels are

0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 1>really a way of describing two different levels of signal strength,

0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:19.400
<v Speaker 1>you you know, instead of just saying this one stronger

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:21.480
<v Speaker 1>than that one, it's a way of giving a unit

0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:24.919
<v Speaker 1>to it and saying this is how much stronger the

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:29.280
<v Speaker 1>signal is going out than it was coming in. You know,

0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 1>we were talking about amplifying, So the incoming signal is

0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:35.000
<v Speaker 1>at a certain strength. How do you describe the outgoing

0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:39.000
<v Speaker 1>strength compared to the incoming strength. Let's talk about sound

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:43.760
<v Speaker 1>first though. So when we're considering sound, near total silence

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:48.240
<v Speaker 1>is zero decibels, and it acts as our starting point.

0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:52.720
<v Speaker 1>So this isn't completely silent. It's not like what you

0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:56.560
<v Speaker 1>would experience if you were somehow able to live out

0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:59.840
<v Speaker 1>in space where there's no sound. Uh. This it's a

0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:04.119
<v Speaker 1>ventially the strength of the smallest audible sound. Now, a

0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:08.160
<v Speaker 1>sound that's ten times louder than that than zero decibels

0:26:08.640 --> 0:26:13.280
<v Speaker 1>would be at ten decibels, but a sound one hundred

0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:17.880
<v Speaker 1>times more powerful than zero isn't one hundred decibels, it's

0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:22.280
<v Speaker 1>twenty decibels. And a sound one thousand times stronger than

0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:28.360
<v Speaker 1>zero decibles isn't one thousand dB or decibels, it's thirty decibels. Now,

0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:32.040
<v Speaker 1>normal conversation is in the range of sixty decibles. A

0:26:32.040 --> 0:26:35.160
<v Speaker 1>car horn is around a hundred ten decibles, a jet

0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:39.159
<v Speaker 1>engine is around one twenty decibles. A gunshot right at

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:43.320
<v Speaker 1>the sources about a hundred forty decibels. So in this case,

0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:45.919
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about the difference in intensity on a logarithmic

0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:51.679
<v Speaker 1>scale from being practically silent now amplic amplification factors are

0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:55.400
<v Speaker 1>a little different because you can actually have negative decibels

0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:58.639
<v Speaker 1>and sound. That doesn't make any sense. It's not like

0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:02.920
<v Speaker 1>you could be quieter than silent or get somehow more

0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:06.719
<v Speaker 1>quiet than no noise at all. That's not what negative

0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:09.639
<v Speaker 1>decibels means. Instead, what it means is that you have

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:14.240
<v Speaker 1>an incoming signal and then you step down the power

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:18.600
<v Speaker 1>of that signal before you put it through output, So

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.680
<v Speaker 1>you can have negative decibels the incoming signal is stronger

0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:25.480
<v Speaker 1>than the outgoing signal. Is This is also really important

0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 1>for um sound engineers as well. So UH, that is

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:33.760
<v Speaker 1>an amplification that is attenuation, but more on that in

0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:37.399
<v Speaker 1>a second. So with gain, we're talking about boosting signal

0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:40.480
<v Speaker 1>power and not stepping it down. Game can boost a

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.480
<v Speaker 1>signal's power a few decipls two around thirty deciples and

0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:47.320
<v Speaker 1>strength depending upon the application, and you can also cascade

0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 1>amplification to boost it further. But there is a problem

0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:55.000
<v Speaker 1>in that amplification can introduce noise into the signal, and

0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:57.560
<v Speaker 1>each time you amplify that signal again, it's going to

0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:03.400
<v Speaker 1>also amplify the noise, So you can't continuously amplify a signal.

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Eventually you're going to have so much noise that there

0:28:05.520 --> 0:28:09.560
<v Speaker 1>won't be any signal anymore. It ends up creating distortion,

0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:13.080
<v Speaker 1>so you have a limitation of practical limitation on how

0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:17.560
<v Speaker 1>much you can amplify a signal. Attenuation going back to

0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:21.119
<v Speaker 1>that is the reduction of a signal strength. So this

0:28:21.160 --> 0:28:24.080
<v Speaker 1>can be any signal, doesn't have to be an electric signal. UH.

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:28.639
<v Speaker 1>Sunglasses attenuate the light that comes from the sun that

0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:33.320
<v Speaker 1>hits your eyeballs, for example. UH. This is also called loss.

0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:37.399
<v Speaker 1>Often in the UH, the the engineering electrical engineering BIZ

0:28:38.120 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 1>and signals attenuate over distance. It's just something that happens.

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 1>So radio waves will attenuate over a distance, UM light

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:52.320
<v Speaker 1>will attenuate over distance across things like fiber optic cables.

0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Electricity will attenuate over great distances. And it's one of

0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:01.520
<v Speaker 1>those problems that engineers had to get around using various means,

0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:04.280
<v Speaker 1>one of the big ones being repeaters. So let's say

0:29:04.280 --> 0:29:06.240
<v Speaker 1>you've got a cable and you've got a signal going

0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 1>through the cable. It's going to attenuate as it travels

0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 1>down this cable. You may have to have a repeater

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:16.960
<v Speaker 1>that would take in the incoming signal and generate a

0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 1>new one to continue down the line to keep on

0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:24.560
<v Speaker 1>going toward its destination. And you might have multiple repeaters

0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:27.600
<v Speaker 1>across an entire network in order to get signals to

0:29:27.640 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 1>go from point A to point B. So attenuation is

0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:34.840
<v Speaker 1>just a fact of physics. You know, you can't you

0:29:34.880 --> 0:29:37.720
<v Speaker 1>can't engineer your way around it entirely. You can find

0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:41.120
<v Speaker 1>better and better ways of preserving signals so that they

0:29:41.160 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 1>attenuate more slowly. And in fact, if you look at

0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:49.480
<v Speaker 1>uh the attenuation in cables, the less attenuation per distance

0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:53.479
<v Speaker 1>you have, the more efficient that cable is there's some

0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 1>cable manufacturers that really rely on this as a way

0:29:57.040 --> 0:29:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of saying, hey, our cables are way better than our

0:29:59.480 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 1>competitor is because we have very little loss. We have

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:07.560
<v Speaker 1>engineered our cables so that they are superior in most cases,

0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:10.960
<v Speaker 1>at least for consumers. I would argue that the difference

0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:15.520
<v Speaker 1>is negligible. The signal loss is so small and the

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:19.840
<v Speaker 1>error correction and most electronics is so good that it

0:30:19.880 --> 0:30:23.760
<v Speaker 1>would be difficult to notice as a consumer, if not

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:28.480
<v Speaker 1>impossible to notice. Um However, depending upon what you're using

0:30:28.480 --> 0:30:30.760
<v Speaker 1>it for, if it's something super high end and you're

0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:36.520
<v Speaker 1>having to have truly very long cables, attenuation can be

0:30:36.560 --> 0:30:40.240
<v Speaker 1>a problem. This is particularly an issue with like quantum computing.

0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:43.880
<v Speaker 1>In fact, with quantum computing right now, we expect that

0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 1>there is a hard limit to how far away you

0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:50.000
<v Speaker 1>could have nodes be from one another in order to

0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:53.440
<v Speaker 1>communicate effectively. I believe I don't have this figure in

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.640
<v Speaker 1>front of me, but I believe that the theoretical upper

0:30:56.680 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 1>limit is somewhere around five kilometers, and beyond that you

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:01.880
<v Speaker 1>would not be able to have a quantum computer network

0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:05.560
<v Speaker 1>be able to communicate with a node to node. So

0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:08.600
<v Speaker 1>that's an issue um. It's one of the limiting factors.

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:12.480
<v Speaker 1>It maybe that that means we'll have quantum computing networks,

0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:15.920
<v Speaker 1>but never a quantum Internet, not a true one anyway,

0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:20.880
<v Speaker 1>that's a possibility. Anyway. I hope that ends up explaining

0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:26.880
<v Speaker 1>the concepts of impedance, gain and attenuation. Uh. It's pretty

0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:31.000
<v Speaker 1>interesting stuff and uh, I feel like I could go

0:31:31.120 --> 0:31:33.360
<v Speaker 1>on a lot more about that, probably bring in a

0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:36.160
<v Speaker 1>couple of engineers and really talk about it. But I

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:39.440
<v Speaker 1>hope that serves as a good introduction into the concepts.

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Let's take another quick break to thank our sponsor. You know,

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0:33:10.760 --> 0:33:20.720
<v Speaker 1>stuff all right. Our next piece of listener mail comes

0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:25.600
<v Speaker 1>from listener Keegan McDougall, who had a really cool question. Uh.

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:29.720
<v Speaker 1>And Kegan was asking about a philosophical question and ethical

0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:33.680
<v Speaker 1>question that is called the trolley problem and wanted to

0:33:33.720 --> 0:33:37.920
<v Speaker 1>know how it relates to autonomous cars. And I thought, well,

0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:40.480
<v Speaker 1>this is this is a point where I could kind

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:43.400
<v Speaker 1>of give my own answer and that would be fine,

0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:46.520
<v Speaker 1>but I think it would really benefit from an actual discussion,

0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:50.760
<v Speaker 1>which is why I have invited my super secret guest star,

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:54.160
<v Speaker 1>whom I alluded to earlier in the show, and it

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:57.240
<v Speaker 1>turns out to be Ben bowling of car stuff and

0:33:57.240 --> 0:33:58.880
<v Speaker 1>stuff they don't want you to know. I think both

0:33:58.920 --> 0:34:01.320
<v Speaker 1>of those shows relate to the topic we're going to

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:04.480
<v Speaker 1>talk about. Yeah, hey, thanks for having me on. And

0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:07.760
<v Speaker 1>I gotta say I love the Listener Male episodes. So

0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:12.920
<v Speaker 1>this is a really great question that ke Getting has asked. Yeah,

0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:15.480
<v Speaker 1>I think I think first obviously we should probably talk

0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:18.839
<v Speaker 1>about what the trolley problem is, what the trolley question is,

0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:22.680
<v Speaker 1>and this is really kind of a cognitive science slash

0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:28.160
<v Speaker 1>um ethical slash moral quandary kind of question, and it's

0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:34.359
<v Speaker 1>a hypothetical situation, thankfully not not a practical exam So

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:38.400
<v Speaker 1>the the hypothetical question that the most basic version of

0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:43.000
<v Speaker 1>this is that there is a track and a trolley

0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:47.120
<v Speaker 1>is out of control running down this track, and the

0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 1>there is a person on the track, and if the

0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:52.759
<v Speaker 1>trolley are actually there's five people on on the track,

0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:55.719
<v Speaker 1>and if the trolley continues it will collide with and

0:34:55.800 --> 0:35:00.719
<v Speaker 1>presumably kill all five of these people. You are next

0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 1>to a switch that will switch the track to a

0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:09.160
<v Speaker 1>separate run of track, and there's one person on that

0:35:09.360 --> 0:35:12.080
<v Speaker 1>separate one. So if you pull the switch. You will

0:35:12.160 --> 0:35:15.480
<v Speaker 1>save the five people from certain death, but you will

0:35:15.560 --> 0:35:19.200
<v Speaker 1>condemn the person who's on the separate track to death.

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:22.279
<v Speaker 1>And the question is do you pull the trick the

0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:26.240
<v Speaker 1>lever or not do you actually make that move? Uh?

0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.000
<v Speaker 1>And it's not like there's a a right or wrong

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:32.120
<v Speaker 1>answer to this. There there are answers that more people

0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:36.799
<v Speaker 1>are that freque will frequently give um And most people

0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:39.400
<v Speaker 1>would say that to save one to you know, to

0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:42.520
<v Speaker 1>sacrifice one person, to say five people makes the most sense.

0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:46.759
<v Speaker 1>We're doing the vulcan response, right, Right, the needs of

0:35:46.800 --> 0:35:50.359
<v Speaker 1>the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. Uh. Yeah,

0:35:50.440 --> 0:35:53.799
<v Speaker 1>also known as the utilitarian response. Right. That's a very

0:35:53.880 --> 0:35:56.160
<v Speaker 1>common way of looking at it. And then there are

0:35:56.719 --> 0:36:01.120
<v Speaker 1>variations on this this question, like what if instead of

0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:04.799
<v Speaker 1>pulling a lever, you are on the trolley and the

0:36:04.880 --> 0:36:07.640
<v Speaker 1>trolley is out of control and it's heading towards five

0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:10.120
<v Speaker 1>people on the track, and you can stop the trolley

0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:12.920
<v Speaker 1>if you push a fat person who's on the trolley

0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:16.120
<v Speaker 1>with you out in front. The trolley will hit the

0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:19.240
<v Speaker 1>fat person and come to a stop before hitting anyone else.

0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:22.640
<v Speaker 1>That means you actively have to kill a person. It's

0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:25.439
<v Speaker 1>not so much you pull a switch and someone else

0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:28.440
<v Speaker 1>dies instead of five people, you are actively killing them.

0:36:28.480 --> 0:36:31.839
<v Speaker 1>And now we start seeing people say I don't know

0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:36.160
<v Speaker 1>that I could do that. Taking no action and allowing

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:40.200
<v Speaker 1>people to die feels differently than taking an active role

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:43.520
<v Speaker 1>and killing someone to prevent five other people from dying. Yeah,

0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:47.520
<v Speaker 1>And other people would argue, well, you're still committing a

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:51.879
<v Speaker 1>murder by pulling the switch, just a more comfortable thing,

0:36:52.000 --> 0:36:54.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of similar to uh, sort of similar to buying

0:36:54.840 --> 0:36:57.560
<v Speaker 1>prepared food versus going into the forest and killing your

0:36:57.560 --> 0:36:59.759
<v Speaker 1>own thing, right, or or if you want to think

0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:03.160
<v Speaker 1>of a in a in a kind of a military way,

0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:06.000
<v Speaker 1>it could be the general calling for the order of

0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:08.920
<v Speaker 1>the big push as opposed to someone who's actually on

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:11.560
<v Speaker 1>the front lines who would make that same call. Yeah,

0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:14.239
<v Speaker 1>that's a really good point, which that actually comes up

0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:16.839
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of war crime trial. Oh yeah, I mean, well,

0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:18.480
<v Speaker 1>if you look at the history of World War One,

0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:21.280
<v Speaker 1>that was the history of World War One, right, there

0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:25.720
<v Speaker 1>were lots of criticisms leveled against generals who were who

0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:31.400
<v Speaker 1>seemed far too eager to commit huge numbers of soldiers

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:36.640
<v Speaker 1>to potential death and destruction for what we're often seen

0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:40.840
<v Speaker 1>as arbitrary gains. But getting back to the trolley problem

0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:44.359
<v Speaker 1>and the question Kegan had. The reason this relates back

0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:48.480
<v Speaker 1>to autonomous cars is you could imagine scenarios in which

0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:51.400
<v Speaker 1>an autonomous car would have to make a split decision,

0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:55.680
<v Speaker 1>and how do you program in that decision. So here's

0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:58.200
<v Speaker 1>an example i'm I would give. Let's say that you

0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:01.399
<v Speaker 1>are in your autonomous car. The cars driving for you.

0:38:01.400 --> 0:38:04.520
<v Speaker 1>You are not in control. The car is going down

0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:08.520
<v Speaker 1>a street and there are pedestrians all along the sidewalk

0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:13.520
<v Speaker 1>to your right. All right, an oncoming car under manual

0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:17.840
<v Speaker 1>control uh loses control. So the driver loses control of

0:38:17.840 --> 0:38:20.200
<v Speaker 1>that vehicle and it begins to swerve into your lane.

0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Your car is unable to move off to the left

0:38:24.080 --> 0:38:27.440
<v Speaker 1>because of the trajectory of the incoming car. So what

0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:31.520
<v Speaker 1>does your car do. Your car, having traffic behind you,

0:38:31.560 --> 0:38:36.319
<v Speaker 1>can't back up, So your options are essentially to hit

0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:39.319
<v Speaker 1>the brakes and you're going to have a collision with

0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:42.719
<v Speaker 1>an oncoming car, which could potentially put you the passenger

0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:46.439
<v Speaker 1>at risk, or the car could swerve to the right

0:38:47.080 --> 0:38:52.280
<v Speaker 1>avoid a collision but potentially collide with pedestrians. In either case,

0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:56.520
<v Speaker 1>you're talking about people potentially being hurt or killed. How

0:38:56.640 --> 0:39:00.000
<v Speaker 1>do you, as a programmer who's designing the autonomous car

0:39:00.000 --> 0:39:04.479
<v Speaker 1>are make that call? And is it right for an

0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:08.160
<v Speaker 1>engineer to make that call knowing that the person who

0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:12.239
<v Speaker 1>is inside the car might have had a different reaction. Yeah,

0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:16.960
<v Speaker 1>these these are great questions and they tie into some

0:39:17.120 --> 0:39:20.320
<v Speaker 1>topical things that are going to become an increasingly big

0:39:20.360 --> 0:39:25.799
<v Speaker 1>issue for car owners and car manufacturers. As abstract and

0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:29.160
<v Speaker 1>philosophical as this might sound, in some degree, this is

0:39:29.400 --> 0:39:33.200
<v Speaker 1>a real life problem. So a brief explanation here. One

0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:36.560
<v Speaker 1>one of the things that we should mention when we

0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:39.759
<v Speaker 1>get to real world applications is if there is a

0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:44.200
<v Speaker 1>real person driving and trolley. Unfortunately, we do have to

0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:49.040
<v Speaker 1>allow for uh, their preformed opinions of the kind of

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:52.200
<v Speaker 1>people they're saving to come into play. So five people

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:55.800
<v Speaker 1>that they consider unsavory or you know, five elderly people

0:39:55.960 --> 0:39:58.960
<v Speaker 1>versus one child. Right. Usually the way we present this

0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:02.280
<v Speaker 1>problem is that you have no information about the potential victims,

0:40:02.320 --> 0:40:04.960
<v Speaker 1>because otherwise, I mean there are variations like there's one

0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:07.799
<v Speaker 1>there's one where you're on the trolley, there are five

0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:10.719
<v Speaker 1>people on the tracks, and the person who's responsible for

0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:13.760
<v Speaker 1>the trolley being out of control is also on the trolley.

0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:17.080
<v Speaker 1>You can push that person out, and most people would

0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:20.160
<v Speaker 1>say yes, because this person has committed the act that

0:40:20.200 --> 0:40:22.920
<v Speaker 1>has put everyone in danger in the first place, and

0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:27.160
<v Speaker 1>it is ethically all right to have that person be

0:40:27.200 --> 0:40:31.000
<v Speaker 1>held responsible by way of killing them to prevent the

0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:34.520
<v Speaker 1>deaths of their otherwise potential victims. Right, Yeah, and I

0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:38.920
<v Speaker 1>and I think it's correct for at least the hypothetical

0:40:39.000 --> 0:40:41.560
<v Speaker 1>nature of it to keep to keep the emphasis on

0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:44.759
<v Speaker 1>the problem, which is the problematic decision, that dilemma. But

0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:50.560
<v Speaker 1>when we talk about programming UM programming, we could potentially

0:40:50.600 --> 0:40:53.319
<v Speaker 1>be a death machine. You know what we what we

0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:57.439
<v Speaker 1>find quickly is that we might run into um problems

0:40:57.480 --> 0:41:01.279
<v Speaker 1>of profiling through code. Could we teach uh? Could we

0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:05.480
<v Speaker 1>teach a computer that level of fidelity? And could we

0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:09.239
<v Speaker 1>teach it to be something that people agree with directly? Furthermore,

0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I've got to say, Man, I was thinking about this

0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:16.400
<v Speaker 1>since we were talking about it briefly off air. The

0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:18.960
<v Speaker 1>one of the first answers that a lot of people

0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:22.200
<v Speaker 1>go to with an AI problem is, well, the three

0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:25.400
<v Speaker 1>laws of robotics, right are perfect, but they don't work

0:41:25.400 --> 0:41:30.240
<v Speaker 1>in this occasion because they're asking the robot quote unquote

0:41:30.480 --> 0:41:34.400
<v Speaker 1>to uh differentiate between values of human life, which the

0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:37.200
<v Speaker 1>first law doesn't allow for it. Right. It's a it's

0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:40.000
<v Speaker 1>a no win scenario for the robot, right because no

0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:43.160
<v Speaker 1>matter what choice is made, there's going to be some

0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:46.719
<v Speaker 1>form of injury as a result. So there's no way

0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:49.879
<v Speaker 1>that the robot can make a decision that is going

0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:52.120
<v Speaker 1>to result and no one getting hurt. That's just not

0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:54.840
<v Speaker 1>even an option. It's it's you know, you've got the

0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.960
<v Speaker 1>traffic behind you, so you can't magically say, oh, well

0:41:58.000 --> 0:42:01.120
<v Speaker 1>just PLoP it into reverse so that way you avoid

0:42:01.160 --> 0:42:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the collision. Uh, And you can't you know, you can't say, oh,

0:42:05.040 --> 0:42:08.040
<v Speaker 1>we'll find a gap in the people like there's going

0:42:08.120 --> 0:42:12.399
<v Speaker 1>they're going to be situations where this hypothetical question can

0:42:12.560 --> 0:42:15.279
<v Speaker 1>and will arise. Now, you could argue that when we

0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:18.000
<v Speaker 1>get closer and closer to more autonomous cars being on

0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:22.680
<v Speaker 1>the road, the likelihood of the situation decreases dramatically, um

0:42:22.719 --> 0:42:25.680
<v Speaker 1>particularly if you have vehicles that are capable of communicating

0:42:25.680 --> 0:42:27.520
<v Speaker 1>with one another, because then they're going to know each

0:42:27.520 --> 0:42:30.560
<v Speaker 1>other's positions well before you're in range of each other.

0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:33.759
<v Speaker 1>Then you just have to worry about the things that

0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:36.560
<v Speaker 1>are not part of the system, like pedestrians crossing the street,

0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:40.719
<v Speaker 1>jay walker's dogs, you know, that sort of stuff, which

0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:43.160
<v Speaker 1>could still be a factor. Also, we keep in mind

0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:47.360
<v Speaker 1>that the autonomous cars are able to react in a

0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:51.560
<v Speaker 1>fraction of the time that humans are, and they're able

0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:55.040
<v Speaker 1>to detect everything that's going on. See, we humans, we're

0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:57.600
<v Speaker 1>limited by what we can focus on at any given time,

0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:01.400
<v Speaker 1>So even our field of view is a limitation, right,

0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:03.880
<v Speaker 1>so a car doesn't have that. A car can have

0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:08.880
<v Speaker 1>a three and sixty degree area of awareness and a

0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:11.200
<v Speaker 1>fraction of the amount of time it takes a human

0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:13.960
<v Speaker 1>to react to be able to make these decisions. That

0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:17.239
<v Speaker 1>being said, you still have this problem of there are

0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:21.440
<v Speaker 1>scenarios that are possible where ultimately someone has to figure

0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:23.799
<v Speaker 1>out how do they program this in do they have

0:43:24.239 --> 0:43:27.200
<v Speaker 1>do they build it in to the cars programming where

0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:32.239
<v Speaker 1>if it detects pedestrians, those have the top priority of

0:43:32.280 --> 0:43:34.720
<v Speaker 1>safety because they are the ones who are least likely

0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:38.360
<v Speaker 1>to be able to survive and impact. And therefore, let's

0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:41.240
<v Speaker 1>let's uh, you know, you'd never want to have a crash,

0:43:41.280 --> 0:43:44.400
<v Speaker 1>but if the choices between crash or plowing into pedestrians,

0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:48.280
<v Speaker 1>you'd pick the crash. That's what I would suspect, because

0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:51.280
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine also that anyone making these cars would

0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:55.200
<v Speaker 1>test to make sure that they withstood the same crash

0:43:55.239 --> 0:44:00.360
<v Speaker 1>test parameters that other vehicles do. So in that case,

0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:03.720
<v Speaker 1>I would say that the autonomous car is more likely

0:44:04.600 --> 0:44:07.799
<v Speaker 1>to be designed. And I think that's from a manufacturer's

0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 1>point of view, two to withstand the crash. That not

0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:16.239
<v Speaker 1>that not that that's necessarily always going to be the

0:44:16.360 --> 0:44:18.919
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote right choice from an ethics point of view,

0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:25.040
<v Speaker 1>But if I'm a car manufacturer, I definitely would rather

0:44:25.280 --> 0:44:30.920
<v Speaker 1>have the message be in this very unlikely scenario, uh,

0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:36.640
<v Speaker 1>the car would prepare for impact essentially rather than run

0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.360
<v Speaker 1>a muck on the sidewalk exactly, And that that's the

0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:45.200
<v Speaker 1>primary concern as um. As cold as it may sound,

0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:47.920
<v Speaker 1>the truth of the matter is that if you are

0:44:48.000 --> 0:44:51.759
<v Speaker 1>a car manufacturer, part of what you're selling to car

0:44:51.880 --> 0:44:55.320
<v Speaker 1>buyers is a sense of safety. So I I think

0:44:55.360 --> 0:44:58.719
<v Speaker 1>that the priorities would be a little bit different. The

0:44:58.840 --> 0:45:02.080
<v Speaker 1>number one priority probably be the passengers within the vehicle.

0:45:02.360 --> 0:45:04.960
<v Speaker 1>To the point that with this preparation for impact, which

0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:07.399
<v Speaker 1>I love what you're saying, than than it may be

0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:14.200
<v Speaker 1>a case where the car simply stops, uh like proactively

0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.960
<v Speaker 1>deploys its air bags. Uh and perhaps I don't know,

0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:21.080
<v Speaker 1>maybe has some brake system that braces for impact. It

0:45:21.160 --> 0:45:25.160
<v Speaker 1>might even orient itself so that the most the crumpled

0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:29.960
<v Speaker 1>zones are at their the best angle for preparing for

0:45:29.960 --> 0:45:32.120
<v Speaker 1>an impact. Which, you know, it sounds kind of crazy.

0:45:32.120 --> 0:45:35.440
<v Speaker 1>You're thinking, Oh, it's a car that would actually maneuver

0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:38.239
<v Speaker 1>itself so it would suffer more damage. But it may

0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:41.480
<v Speaker 1>be that that's the ideal way to deal with this

0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:45.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of situation, to make sure that everyone involved has

0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:50.200
<v Speaker 1>the best chance of uh of suffering the least amount

0:45:50.200 --> 0:45:52.560
<v Speaker 1>of injury. Yes, and this brings us to something that

0:45:52.600 --> 0:45:55.359
<v Speaker 1>we probably don't have time for today, but it's an

0:45:55.400 --> 0:46:00.640
<v Speaker 1>interesting question. I'd love to hear um your thoughts on this, two, Keegan. Uh.

0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:03.440
<v Speaker 1>If we have that kind of programming, which is really

0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:08.000
<v Speaker 1>really the definition of live fire, just the inherent danger here,

0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:13.759
<v Speaker 1>then what happens when people modify that programming, Because I mean,

0:46:13.800 --> 0:46:16.759
<v Speaker 1>you know this, Jonathan, there's this big there's this increasingly

0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:22.120
<v Speaker 1>big stink over the computerization of cars and the degree

0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:26.120
<v Speaker 1>of control over that that programming is still held by manufacturers. Sure,

0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:29.120
<v Speaker 1>and people are buying cars and saying, why can't I

0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:32.320
<v Speaker 1>work on my car? Right? And then there's the hacker

0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:36.160
<v Speaker 1>community that have uh said that they would be able

0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:40.640
<v Speaker 1>to get control of various car systems, and that's been

0:46:40.640 --> 0:46:45.239
<v Speaker 1>demons demonstrated in the past. Now until very recently, it's

0:46:45.280 --> 0:46:47.520
<v Speaker 1>all been limited to people who are able to hook

0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:51.160
<v Speaker 1>a laptop directly into the wiring of a vehicle. So

0:46:51.200 --> 0:46:54.239
<v Speaker 1>it meant that you had to have physical access to

0:46:54.440 --> 0:46:58.840
<v Speaker 1>the car in order to have that happened. Uh. However,

0:46:58.920 --> 0:47:02.239
<v Speaker 1>that being said, I know there's a conference coming up

0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:05.359
<v Speaker 1>this summer in which a pair of presenters are going

0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:08.520
<v Speaker 1>to say that they have found a way of remotely

0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:12.880
<v Speaker 1>accessing a vehicle and hacking it. Um. I'm very curious

0:47:12.920 --> 0:47:15.719
<v Speaker 1>to hear how they did that. I imagine the only

0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 1>way I can imagine it working is if I mean,

0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:20.480
<v Speaker 1>you would obviously have to have some sort of of

0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:23.600
<v Speaker 1>transceiver on the car that could communicate out and receive

0:47:23.719 --> 0:47:28.160
<v Speaker 1>communication back. Uh. And typically I would imagine that would

0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:31.759
<v Speaker 1>be limited to a car's entertainment system. Um. But if

0:47:31.800 --> 0:47:34.480
<v Speaker 1>that entertainment system is also hooked into the other various

0:47:34.480 --> 0:47:37.080
<v Speaker 1>computer systems on a car, then that is a potential

0:47:37.120 --> 0:47:40.319
<v Speaker 1>point of vulnerability. Uh. Now, if you've designed a car

0:47:40.400 --> 0:47:45.000
<v Speaker 1>where it can wirelessly communicate with a mechanic to allow

0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:47.160
<v Speaker 1>a mechanic to get more information about the vehicle and

0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:51.360
<v Speaker 1>it's its current state. Uh, then that would also be

0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:53.600
<v Speaker 1>a potential point of vulnerability. I just don't imagine that

0:47:53.680 --> 0:47:57.000
<v Speaker 1>happening because it's I don't think that it would be

0:47:57.400 --> 0:48:01.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't think the convenience of that particular system would

0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:05.120
<v Speaker 1>warrant the investment in it because it's not that much

0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:09.080
<v Speaker 1>more difficult for a mechanic to just hook their computer

0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:12.239
<v Speaker 1>up to your cars computer system. It's it's not like

0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:15.680
<v Speaker 1>it's so hard to do that. You know, we needed

0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:18.600
<v Speaker 1>to find an alternative to that. But that being said,

0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:23.160
<v Speaker 1>knowing that this is a possibility that the ability to

0:48:23.160 --> 0:48:25.719
<v Speaker 1>to hack into a car could become a thing, and

0:48:25.760 --> 0:48:30.840
<v Speaker 1>knowing that autonomous cars are you know, they're they're growing reality.

0:48:31.400 --> 0:48:35.799
<v Speaker 1>It's something that you know, the roboticist Henrik Christensen said

0:48:36.200 --> 0:48:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the kids born today will never have to drive a

0:48:38.480 --> 0:48:41.399
<v Speaker 1>car because the cars that they'll have when they reach

0:48:41.520 --> 0:48:44.920
<v Speaker 1>driving age will all be autonomous. Uh. You know, I

0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:48.319
<v Speaker 1>I think that's fairly accurate. I mean, some people say

0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:50.759
<v Speaker 1>it won't be till I don't think that's true. I

0:48:50.800 --> 0:48:54.480
<v Speaker 1>think that we're much closer to seeing it become a

0:48:54.520 --> 0:49:00.480
<v Speaker 1>commercial possibility within within a decade. That all of that

0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:03.719
<v Speaker 1>is to say that because of that that reality of

0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:07.960
<v Speaker 1>the autonomous cars, something like the possibility of hacking is

0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:12.840
<v Speaker 1>certainly a concern. If you are a hacker who owns

0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:16.160
<v Speaker 1>your own car and you wanted to remove things like

0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:20.359
<v Speaker 1>the cap on speed limits so that your car could

0:49:20.400 --> 0:49:23.040
<v Speaker 1>drive much faster, even if you're not the one physically

0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:25.600
<v Speaker 1>controlling it, that you just enjoy the experience of writing

0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:28.880
<v Speaker 1>in a really fast car. That's a concern if you

0:49:28.880 --> 0:49:32.760
<v Speaker 1>are able to do things like, for whatever reason, remove

0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:37.040
<v Speaker 1>the safety features that would prevent your car from uh

0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:40.920
<v Speaker 1>breaking too late or accelerating too early, or position itself

0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:43.120
<v Speaker 1>correctly for a crash. Because you don't want to lose

0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:45.759
<v Speaker 1>a big investment. Yeah, any of those things would be

0:49:46.160 --> 0:49:49.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, a concern. So uh, I mean, these are

0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:52.280
<v Speaker 1>questions that we don't have real answers to yet because

0:49:52.280 --> 0:49:55.440
<v Speaker 1>we're not we're not technologically there yet, but they are

0:49:55.520 --> 0:49:58.439
<v Speaker 1>definitely questions that need to be thought of on the

0:49:58.480 --> 0:50:03.359
<v Speaker 1>engineering and manufacturer side of things, because these are things

0:50:03.400 --> 0:50:05.680
<v Speaker 1>that are gonna come up, and you know, you might argue, well,

0:50:05.800 --> 0:50:08.279
<v Speaker 1>this is a now, it's a niche thing. It's only

0:50:08.320 --> 0:50:11.879
<v Speaker 1>gonna happen like a few times, but potentially that could

0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:14.880
<v Speaker 1>be devastating if you don't actually address it. Yeah, and

0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:18.680
<v Speaker 1>and also you know, it's a tough spot for carmakers

0:50:18.760 --> 0:50:24.040
<v Speaker 1>because as as reasonable as it is for you and I,

0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:26.520
<v Speaker 1>um and probably a lot of you guys listening out

0:50:26.560 --> 0:50:29.279
<v Speaker 1>there too, as reasonable as is for all of us

0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:32.600
<v Speaker 1>as individuals to say, well, the utilitarian answer is correct,

0:50:32.680 --> 0:50:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Spock is correct. If GM or someone came out and said, well, guys,

0:50:38.840 --> 0:50:42.080
<v Speaker 1>autonomous cars are still in the early days, so here's

0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:44.799
<v Speaker 1>what we're gonna do if someone has to die, if

0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:47.120
<v Speaker 1>this situation comes up, that it's going to make sure

0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:49.880
<v Speaker 1>it only kills one person, set of five. Then immediately

0:50:49.920 --> 0:50:52.200
<v Speaker 1>you've got everyone say, all right, we have it on

0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:56.040
<v Speaker 1>record that this this car company has said it's okay

0:50:56.040 --> 0:51:00.000
<v Speaker 1>to kill people. Right, so when it when it happened,

0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:02.000
<v Speaker 1>as we can totally go and say no, you have

0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:05.200
<v Speaker 1>it on record that this is what you've decided to do. Yeah, no,

0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:08.160
<v Speaker 1>it's it's definitely Again, that's why I would think that

0:51:08.200 --> 0:51:11.680
<v Speaker 1>car manufacturers would try to limit the liability. They would

0:51:11.719 --> 0:51:15.359
<v Speaker 1>be there and and say like, well, uh, you know,

0:51:16.120 --> 0:51:19.319
<v Speaker 1>maybe maybe it ends up being common practice that when

0:51:19.320 --> 0:51:22.760
<v Speaker 1>you buy a car that has an autonomous control feature

0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:25.759
<v Speaker 1>on it, that you also end up signing waivers that

0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:29.680
<v Speaker 1>wave your legal rights to go after a company should

0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:32.600
<v Speaker 1>one of these crazy scenarios come along. I don't know

0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:36.040
<v Speaker 1>if that would actually hold water, because I would say,

0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:38.600
<v Speaker 1>imagine there'd be a lot of pushback on that, saying, well,

0:51:38.640 --> 0:51:43.080
<v Speaker 1>how can you hold a a customer culpable when they

0:51:43.120 --> 0:51:47.080
<v Speaker 1>have literally no control over the vehicle. They didn't build

0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:51.000
<v Speaker 1>the vehicle, they didn't design the software, they didn't decide

0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:54.600
<v Speaker 1>how it navigates. They just told it a destination. How

0:51:54.640 --> 0:51:56.600
<v Speaker 1>can you hold them responsible for that just because they

0:51:56.640 --> 0:51:58.640
<v Speaker 1>own the machine. They didn't make it do the thing

0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:01.680
<v Speaker 1>it did. Um, these are great questions. I love, I

0:52:01.719 --> 0:52:04.520
<v Speaker 1>love thinking about it. I wish I had more answers,

0:52:04.560 --> 0:52:07.000
<v Speaker 1>But honestly, it's one of those deals that I think

0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:11.120
<v Speaker 1>is going to shake out as the technology matures, and uh,

0:52:11.160 --> 0:52:13.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, in the best case scenario, they will largely

0:52:13.880 --> 0:52:17.120
<v Speaker 1>be moot questions because the implementation of the technology will

0:52:17.160 --> 0:52:20.640
<v Speaker 1>be sophisticated. Enough where these these problems will rarely, if

0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:24.000
<v Speaker 1>ever pop up. That's that's a dream, that's very optimistic.

0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:28.239
<v Speaker 1>But but you know, shoot for the stars, right, I

0:52:28.320 --> 0:52:30.520
<v Speaker 1>want myself driving car. I want to make that clear.

0:52:30.640 --> 0:52:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I am not against the idea of autonomous cars. I

0:52:34.960 --> 0:52:38.120
<v Speaker 1>eagerly await the day when I can have an autonomous

0:52:38.200 --> 0:52:41.759
<v Speaker 1>car take me to work. Yeah, it was sure would

0:52:41.760 --> 0:52:44.120
<v Speaker 1>be nice to get here in twelve minutes in seven hour,

0:52:45.000 --> 0:52:47.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, And I don't drive, so for me, I

0:52:47.600 --> 0:52:51.160
<v Speaker 1>would need an autonomous car because I'm not a Driver's

0:52:51.239 --> 0:52:53.719
<v Speaker 1>not into it. I know. I've had him on the

0:52:53.760 --> 0:52:55.560
<v Speaker 1>show a couple of times to talk about In fact,

0:52:55.600 --> 0:52:58.359
<v Speaker 1>we had a discussion about hacking cars, and we also

0:52:58.440 --> 0:53:00.960
<v Speaker 1>did a discussion about autonomous cars. And I can see,

0:53:01.040 --> 0:53:03.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, every time I started talking about autonomous cars,

0:53:03.120 --> 0:53:06.200
<v Speaker 1>he started to squirm in his seat a little. You know,

0:53:06.680 --> 0:53:10.719
<v Speaker 1>not all of us are like you know, race car

0:53:10.840 --> 0:53:14.520
<v Speaker 1>drivers in our heads with lead feet, lightning like reflections.

0:53:14.560 --> 0:53:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Some of us just want to get to where we

0:53:16.080 --> 0:53:19.319
<v Speaker 1>need to go and and not have to deal with

0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:22.120
<v Speaker 1>the navigating through traffic on our own. I mean, I've

0:53:22.120 --> 0:53:24.800
<v Speaker 1>seen what it does to the same people. I cannot

0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:29.960
<v Speaker 1>take that Ben would not work. H Yeah. Well, well, luckily,

0:53:30.440 --> 0:53:35.480
<v Speaker 1>it looks like every everything that we have seen tells

0:53:35.560 --> 0:53:39.239
<v Speaker 1>us that there is a rise in autonomous vehicles, and

0:53:39.280 --> 0:53:42.920
<v Speaker 1>they are at some point wherever you are listening right now,

0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:45.879
<v Speaker 1>they are at some point coming to your town. Yeah. Yeah,

0:53:45.920 --> 0:53:47.760
<v Speaker 1>some of them may be driving around right now, depending

0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:50.560
<v Speaker 1>on where you're at. Um. Yeah, I've seen uh, I

0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:51.759
<v Speaker 1>got to see a few when I went out to

0:53:51.760 --> 0:53:55.319
<v Speaker 1>San Francisco. It's pretty cool. All right, Well, Ben, thank

0:53:55.400 --> 0:53:57.520
<v Speaker 1>you so much for joining me for that segment, and

0:53:57.920 --> 0:54:01.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure Kegan appreciates it too. Yeah, thanks for having me, guys,

0:54:01.640 --> 0:54:04.239
<v Speaker 1>And remember you can check out Ben's shows. He's on

0:54:04.400 --> 0:54:07.040
<v Speaker 1>car stuff, He's on stuff they don't want you to know.

0:54:07.200 --> 0:54:10.440
<v Speaker 1>He's also a writer and appears for shows like brain

0:54:10.520 --> 0:54:13.279
<v Speaker 1>Stuff and What the Stuff. Uh So Yeah, if you

0:54:13.280 --> 0:54:15.759
<v Speaker 1>guys are are big into video, you should definitely check

0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:18.640
<v Speaker 1>those out. You should check out the other podcast as well.

0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:21.200
<v Speaker 1>And of course it's always a pleasure having you on

0:54:21.280 --> 0:54:23.560
<v Speaker 1>and I will be asking you to be a guest

0:54:23.960 --> 0:54:28.600
<v Speaker 1>probably again really soon. Hey, thank you. Also, just to

0:54:28.640 --> 0:54:32.040
<v Speaker 1>point out to everybody, uh, Jonathan, in full disclosure, you're

0:54:32.040 --> 0:54:33.879
<v Speaker 1>on like half of those shows as well. That's true.

0:54:33.880 --> 0:54:37.359
<v Speaker 1>I also appear on those shows. So yeah, if you

0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:40.839
<v Speaker 1>if you haven't seen What the Stuff like, go ahead

0:54:40.880 --> 0:54:43.279
<v Speaker 1>and give a quick description. So What the Stuff is

0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:47.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of a show where we pick interesting topics and

0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:52.480
<v Speaker 1>give really cool examples of whatever that topic happens to be. So, uh,

0:54:52.520 --> 0:54:55.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, I've got one coming up about honest sports

0:54:55.239 --> 0:54:58.399
<v Speaker 1>in the world, and I talk about some really crazy ones. Uh.

0:54:58.440 --> 0:55:01.920
<v Speaker 1>And then brain Stuff kind of a dive into really

0:55:02.080 --> 0:55:08.040
<v Speaker 1>cool questions about how stuff works or interesting science questions

0:55:08.520 --> 0:55:10.520
<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing. Um, and those are always a

0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:12.719
<v Speaker 1>lot of fun to do to. Yeah, you've got uh,

0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.399
<v Speaker 1>let's see you guys know, Jonathan's a little bit of

0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:19.279
<v Speaker 1>an actor in a different light, right, Yeah, that's true.

0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Can I say that on the air? Absolutely? And uh

0:55:21.920 --> 0:55:25.320
<v Speaker 1>did this did this great piece on brain Stuff about

0:55:25.400 --> 0:55:30.120
<v Speaker 1>why people in old movies the Transatlantic accent? Yeah, I

0:55:30.120 --> 0:55:32.680
<v Speaker 1>think we've made the title why do people talk funny

0:55:32.680 --> 0:55:34.960
<v Speaker 1>in Old Movies? I think it was that ended up

0:55:35.000 --> 0:55:38.319
<v Speaker 1>being a really popular one. Check that out if you

0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:40.719
<v Speaker 1>want to see some of the guy's chops, right and um,

0:55:40.840 --> 0:55:43.080
<v Speaker 1>and and you know, obviously we've got tons of other

0:55:43.080 --> 0:55:45.720
<v Speaker 1>shows here and how Stuff works not to mention crazy

0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:48.319
<v Speaker 1>amazing articles. I don't know how many of you have

0:55:48.400 --> 0:55:50.920
<v Speaker 1>been to the house stuff works dot com website, but

0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:54.080
<v Speaker 1>you should definitely check it out. Check out. We're gonna

0:55:54.120 --> 0:55:56.760
<v Speaker 1>have some great things to announce in the near future.

0:55:57.520 --> 0:56:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Um really excited. I mean it's been it's always been

0:56:00.239 --> 0:56:03.880
<v Speaker 1>a great place to work, but it's really becoming like

0:56:04.080 --> 0:56:08.120
<v Speaker 1>crazy exciting over the last year. So check that out, guys.

0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:10.040
<v Speaker 1>I know that I haven't really talked about the website

0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:12.000
<v Speaker 1>in a long time, but you definitely need to check

0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:15.040
<v Speaker 1>that out. All right, That wraps up this discussion. If

0:56:15.080 --> 0:56:17.239
<v Speaker 1>you guys have any questions, if you want to have

0:56:17.480 --> 0:56:20.040
<v Speaker 1>your listener mail, be part of the next grab bag.

0:56:20.239 --> 0:56:21.680
<v Speaker 1>I want to do a lot more of these in

0:56:21.680 --> 0:56:24.080
<v Speaker 1>the future. It's always fun to kind of respond to

0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:26.319
<v Speaker 1>what you guys have to say and think. Send me

0:56:26.320 --> 0:56:29.480
<v Speaker 1>a message that email address is tech stuff at how

0:56:29.640 --> 0:56:33.240
<v Speaker 1>stuff works dot com, or draw me a line on Twitter,

0:56:33.440 --> 0:56:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Facebook or Tumbler at all three. I use the handle

0:56:36.360 --> 0:56:39.080
<v Speaker 1>of text stuff h s W and we'll talk to

0:56:39.080 --> 0:56:46.320
<v Speaker 1>you again really soon. For more on this and thousands

0:56:46.320 --> 0:56:58.080
<v Speaker 1>of other topics Works dot Com