WEBVTT - Ep. 1 - Trump On Trial 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.280 The first day of President Trump's impeachment trial has just 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.120 come to a close, and we are joined here by 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.600 one of the jurors to help us break it all down. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:22.400 This is verdict with Ted Cruz. You may have noticed 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.079 that I am not Ted Cruz. I am Michael Knowles. 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.800 I am joined here by the man himself, Senator Cruz. Senator. 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:33.800 Busy day, pretty much business as usual. It was a nice, nice, 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.360 business as usual thirteen hour day during the first full 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.280 day of the impeachment trial. You know, we all know 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.040 the arguments we've been hearing about impeachment now since about 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.879 five seconds after Trump got elected. Did anything change today 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.640 during these debates? You know, I don't think anyone's mind 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.120 was changed. I think anyone who came in as a yes, 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.000 it is still a yes. Anyone who came in as 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:57.640 a no is still a no. I think that's true 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.000 for the hundred senators. But I think that's also true 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:01.840 of the people at home. I mean, we're sitting here 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.520 right now, it is two forty two in the morning. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.319 You've come here straight from the hill to this studio 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.320 to do a podcast. I'll ask you why maybe in 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.479 a little bit, but you're you're coming right on the 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:20.160 heels of this debate, and yet nobody's mind was really changed. Well, 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:26.120 we saw eleven motions from the Democrats, one after the 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.640 other after the other. This was all a battle of 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.399 pre trial motions. It's sort of the early battles in 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.560 a trial. And the weird thing was those eleven motions. 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.600 It was the same thing over and over again. So 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:40.800 I have to admit I expected the first one and 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.000 maybe even the second one. I didn't expect them to 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.720 keep filing basically the same motion, keep making the same 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.080 arguments over and over again. It was like Groundhog Day 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.240 that except they'd get up and have a different house 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.640 manager stand up and make the same damn arguments. And 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.480 you saw, like like the senators in the chamber, just 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.560 their eyes glazing over. And I'll tell you, Michael, what 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:06.240 was revealing. So when we started at one o'clock, the 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.200 Senate gallery was packed and lots of reporters up. There 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.959 were the people sitting there as it went on. Within 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.400 a few hours the reporters had cleared, half the reporters 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.160 were gone, and by eight nine o'clock at night, the 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.200 gallery was empty, like everyone had left and said, Okay, 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.280 I don't know what's going on here, but I'm bored 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.080 out of my mind. This is what I was wondering 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.680 the whole time, because I wasn't really surprised by much 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:30.520 of what was going on. We knew what to expect 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.160 other than the time. What are they thinking? I mean, 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.119 what is the end game here for these democratic House 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.560 impeachment managers? Look that they're trying to drive a message, 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.200 but but I'm not sure what's gained by just droning 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.359 on over and over and over again. What exactly that 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:53.760 they thought was beneficial about talking at one thirty in 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.920 the morning, right who was listening? And you know? It 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:03.280 was interesting? Also, I thought the house managers. Look, I'll 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.080 say at the beginning, at the beginning, I thought the 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.880 first couple of hours, the house managers were doing a 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:13.000 pretty good job. They sounded more reasonable, They sounded less 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.720 partisan than they than they were during during the House proceedings. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.520 It was good political theater. It was that there were 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:23.480 some good moments. I'm sure MSNBC will be clipping little 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.560 segments of it and saying, oh, this was powerful and wonderful. 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:31.520 But then it got number one really redundant. But but 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:35.520 number two, it was striking to see especially Adam Shift 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:44.280 and Nadler just lecturing and and condescending not only to 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.880 the senators but to the American people. Right. It was 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.160 a harangue by the end of it. It wasn't designed 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.200 to convince. Yes, And I want to ask you about 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.120 the theatrical side of it, because it seems to me 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.320 there are two theories on impeachment. And on the hand, 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.480 you've got guys like Alan Dershowitz, who are on the 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.560 president's legal team and actually was a professor of yours 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.200 in law school, taught me criminal law. Well, what Professor 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.520 Dershowitz has said is that there is a legal requirement 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.040 for impeachment, So it's not just all political theater. There 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.840 actually is a legal threshold you've got to meet for 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.880 an impeachable offense. Then on the other hand, you've got 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.880 guys like former President Gerald Ford who said impeachment is 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.560 pretty much whatever the Congress says it is, and high 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.359 crimes and misdemeanors are however we wanted to find it 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.960 at the time. You are not only a senator, you 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.280 are a constitutional lawyer, one of the brightest legal minds 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.640 in the country. Which is it is there a legal 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:45.400 requirement for impeachment. Look, there absolutely is. The Constitution specifies 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.440 what's required for impeachment, and the framers, if you look 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.800 at the standard, you can impeach a president for treason, bribery, 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.560 or other high crimes and misdemeanors. That's what the Constitution specifies. 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.920 And if you get to the heart of the problem 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.680 with the House Democrats case here, it's that they have 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.000 an alleged treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.320 That their disagreement we heard a lot of this today, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.440 is they just don't like the guy. They hate President Trump, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.920 in case anyone miss that point, and they disagree with them. 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.120 They disagree with them on foreign policy, they disagree with 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.600 them on politics, and you know what, they're entitled to 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.760 have that view. That's the beautiful thing about our democratic process. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:29.640 But disagreeing with someone politically or on policy is not 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:34.160 sufficient grounds to impeach them. You've got to demonstrate treason, 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.880 which they haven't alleged. You've got to demonstrate bribery which 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.919 they haven't alleged, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. And 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.240 it's interesting if you look at so what is a 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.880 high crime or misdemeanor. You can actually learn a lot 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.440 from the history of the Constitution. When the Constitutional Convention began, 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.320 the text of the Constitution just said treason or bribery, 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.200 so those are the only two grounds. And then at 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.719 the Convention, George Mason, is one of the more respective 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.800 of of the founding fathers, said, look, treason and bribery 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.279 are too narrow. We need to be broader. So Mason 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:11.000 proposed adding the word maladministration. So you're just no good 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.600 at governing, you're no good at your job of being president. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.120 And he argued, look, there are circumstances we'd want to 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.000 impeach a president that are broader, and so let's add this. 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.200 And James Madison, who is often referred to as the 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.080 father of the Constitution, he stood up and he disagreed. 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.520 He said, look, maladministration would be a mistake. What it 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.360 would mean is you would have a president impeach any 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.440 time the Senate disagrees with him, anytime there's a disagreement 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.159 on policy or politics, they'd be impeached. And so it 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:42.640 was Madison who proposed instead of maladministration, other high crimes 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.640 and misdemeanors. And that was in turn what was adopted 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.640 in the Constitution. This is why I want your historical 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:53.280 perspective here as well, because we're joking about how absolutely 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.760 tedious and boring these impeachment proceedings were. This is an 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.200 historic event. This is the third time that we've done 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.560 this in American history. You know, we managed to make 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.040 it almost eighty years in our country before we impeached 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.000 a single president. Then we made it more than a 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.560 hundred years after that before threatening to impeach another president. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:17.480 Now we've impeached two out of the last four. It 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.960 seems like this is speeding up. It seems like we're 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.520 getting into a situation where the Congress is just going 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.800 to throw out presidents that they don't like. Are we 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:26.800 doing this too much? Is this a bad sign for 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.080 the country. I think it's very dangerous. I think if 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.200 the House Democrats standard this time, if that's what holds 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.480 going forward, any time you have a president of one 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.520 party in a House of a different party, they're going 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.920 to impeach him. We're just going to see this as 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.320 a standard tool of political warfare. You know, you look 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.320 at the two articles of impeachment the House voted out 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.840 neither one of them alleges a crime, right like like 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.760 on their face, they don't allege any violation of criminal law. 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.280 They don't allege any violation of civil law. Well, if 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.160 you don't allege the law was broken, it's not a 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:04.640 high crime or miss demeanor. And that what was interesting 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:09.640 about today. So this was all about whether to call 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.040 additional witnesses. Now, look, the House had seventeen witnesses. They 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.600 only called prosecution witnesses. They didn't let the defense call witnesses. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.520 But getting here, house managers wanted to call a whole 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.400 bunch more witnesses. They wanted to go on a fishing expedition, 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.840 right and and sort of And why did they by 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:27.760 the way, because they were trying to call They called 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.720 all these witnesses, and they they heard them out, and 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.680 then they took the impeachment vote. If they wanted more witnesses, 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.200 why didn't they call them before the impeachment vote? Because 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.000 they haven't proven the case, right, and they know they 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.839 don't have the evidence. You don't rewind, go go back 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.680 a month or two. You may remember during the House 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.840 proceedings there was a time when suddenly all the House 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.720 Democrats began talking about bribery and I actually do stories 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.000 explained why they did it, which is the D Triple C. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:09:00.160 THET Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee did focus grouping in and 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:04.480 pulled it and discovered briberies really bad. People don't like bribery. 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.280 They're mad when their president's bribed. And and just about 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:14.040 every House Democrat, like flipping a switch, began saying bribery, bribery, bribery. Well, 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.280 you know what, bribery is an impeachable offense. If you 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:20.760 can prove bribery, you got him. But the articles of 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.200 impeachment don't allege bribery. Could They considered doing it right, 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.040 and then they pulled it back. And that's their problem 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.120 right now is they heard that this witness testimony, they 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.440 heard all this evidence, and they can't prove their case. 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.000 So what they want to do is they want to 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.920 try to bring in as many witnesses as they can 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.960 and and go phishing try to find something to back 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.440 up their case. What the Senate ended up doing today 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:51.040 is we adopted a procedural order, basically a way of proceeding. 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.200 And it is very very similar to what the Senate 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.360 did in the Bill Clinton impeachment. Bill Clinton impeachment had 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.200 two phases. Phase one was opening arguments and questions from 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.760 senators and there were no witnesses. There were no consideration 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.000 of witnesses in phase one. And then after that the 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.160 Senate debated and thought about should we have additional witnesses. 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.199 They end up calling a few additional witnesses for depositions. 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.880 So what we did today, what Senate Republicans did is 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.880 took an order very very similar to the Clinton order. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.800 By the way, that order was approved one hundred and nothing. 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.440 It was bipartisan, it was unanimous, every Democrat, every Republican, 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.480 but Senator that was then. This is now. That was 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.840 when it was a democratic president. And now obviously, and 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.720 I say this somewhat jokingly, but there is a lot 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.560 of hypocrisy that's going around between these two impeachments that 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.320 there is massive hypocrisy. Now, look, I will recognize hypocrisy 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.439 is a problem on both sides of the islets. It's 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.719 not like Democrats have a monopoly on that, but it 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.920 is striking the recency of the hypocrisy. You know, there 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.600 was one moment where Pat Zippoloni, the President's White House counsel, 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.839 led the defense team. He quoted from Berry Nadler, who 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.920 just a few months ago had said a partisan impeachment 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.080 from just one country would never work. It would be 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.960 bitter and divisive and rip the country apart from just 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.200 one party if you had just one party pushing this, 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.560 as the Democrats have in this impeachment. And what's interesting 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.720 is that wasn't Jerry Nadler talking during the Clinton impeachment, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.920 although he said that back then. That was him last year, right, 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.440 That was him trying to push back the far left 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.840 in the Democratic Party saying no, no no, no, we can't 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.719 impeach this guy because it can't be partisan. Unfortunately, that's 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:41.320 where we are. And I think the way it's going 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.720 to work going forward is we're going to have opening arguments. 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.560 It's going to start with the house managers. They got 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:53.040 twenty four hours initially, by the way, our scheduling order 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.760 provided for two days, twenty four hours over two days. 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.560 The Democrats were screaming all day, two days is terrible. 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.120 We can't possibly do it in two days. You guys 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.280 are to cover up trying to give us twenty four 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:05.120 not a trial, it's a cover up. By the way 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.199 that Bill Clinton impeachment order twenty four hours exactly that's 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.199 an inconvenient fact. But okay, sure, so it's actually one 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.760 of the things actually that the Senate Republicans had, Fine, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.880 we'll give you three days, so instead of twenty four 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.000 hours over two days, twelve hours a day, we'll give 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:22.400 you twenty four hours over three days, eight hours a day. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.560 I really hope that doesn't mean that the next three 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.760 days we're going to listen to eight hours of them 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.040 repeating the same arguments. Yet, it was interesting today this 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.640 was supposed to be fighting over pre trial witnesses, but 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.599 the Democrats basically gave their opening arguments. Yes, and that 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.600 actually was somewhat unexpected. Right out the bat Adam Schiff 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.040 seemed to be making the argument on impeachment, not on 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.679 these questions of whether they're going to call John Bolton 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.680 or some other relevant witness. Well, and I think that's 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.160 actually what House Democrats did most effectively today for the 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.920 first several hours, is they told their story. They treated 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.800 this pre trial fight as an open argument. They were 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:02.640 talking to the American people. I thought the first couple 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.320 of hours they're pretty effective. And then it just started 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.800 getting They just started repeating it and getting angrier and 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.120 angrier as the day went on. You know, as I 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.240 look at the White House defense team, I think they've 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.160 got some very talented lawyers. I think they made some 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.120 good arguments today, but I also think they got two 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:24.680 mired down in process, that there was too much being 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:29.400 lawyers and making lawyerly arguments. And what I hope we 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.520 see in the days to come from from from the 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.520 President's defense team is number one, that they get more 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.840 into the substantive arguments, not just the process, not just 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:43.000 the minutia, but the fundamental substantive argument that this was 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.560 not this was not a high crime or misdemeanor, that 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.480 it is always within a president's authority and a government's 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:52.640 authority to investigate corruption, and I mean to address the 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.600 substance and also to tell a story that's something. Look, 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.240 you could see the Democrats of trial lawyers their telen 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.640 stories not just to the hundred senators in the room 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.320 right but to the folks at home watching. I think 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.960 we need to do a better job telling a story 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.720 as well. And it's especially needed because the President hasn't 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.839 had a chance to tell his story. The whole House 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.640 proceeding they shut down the minority didn't allow minority witnesses, 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.320 so we need to tell the basic narrative. That's what 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.000 the President needs to tell. I think that's what the 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.800 Senate needs to tell is focus on the facts and substance, 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:33.880 not a lot of rhetoric, not a lot of anger 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.200 and emotion. I want to ask you about a specific 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.280 story that Congressman Adam Schiff, one of the House impeachment managers, 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:43.080 was telling today, really because I think most people have 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:47.040 no expertise on it at all, including myself. Adam Schiff 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.280 seemed to suggest that there is pretty much no role 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.080 for the judiciary in impeachment proceedings. He said, we got 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:55.200 to get the courts out of it, we got to 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:56.720 get the judges out of it. And I thought it 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.000 was a very odd thing to say while Chief Justice 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.600 John Roberts was presiding over the impeachment as per the Constitution. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.200 Did shift just get it wrong? I mean, what is 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.840 the what is the balance of power here is? So look, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.520 if you look at the role of impeachment, impeachment itself 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.000 is a combination of the two branches. If you look 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.720 in the Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton writes from the Federalist 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.040 Papers about how the Framers struggled with to whom to 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:27.800 give trying impeachment, and they wanted a body that was independent. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.040 They wanted a body that had credibility, and they chose 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.240 the Senate. They considered the Supreme Court. So they were there, 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.000 they considered, maybe we should have the Supreme Court try impeachment. 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.560 They said, now let's give it to the Senate, but 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.640 let's make the Chief Justice preside. And so it was 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.800 sort of a hybrid of the two if you look 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.760 at privilege questions, So all of the debate about witnesses 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.160 comes right down to privilege and an executive privilege. Executive 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.440 privilege is something every president has had. It's it's it's 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.360 the ability to have your closest advisors, your national security advisor, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.760 give you candid advice without being hauled into Congress and 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.680 put on national television. Now asserting privilege. Look, we're all 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.480 familiar with attorney client privilege. You talk to your lawyer. 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.440 Your lawyer can't be brought in and put in the 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.840 stand as a general matter, to tell them what to 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.160 tell everyone what you said to your lawyer. Their spousal privilege. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.880 You know, you tell your wife or your husband something 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.800 at night that they can't force your wife to come 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.400 into court and testify against you. Now, they're exceptions to it, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:31.600 but privileges are commonplace, and courts routinely litigate privileges. Those 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.440 are those are questions courts are used to considering. In 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.560 this case, the House Democrats, frankly, I think are playing games, 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.440 and the best way to understand it is look at 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.040 John Bolton. A lot of the argument today was about 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.800 John Bolton, john Bolton's national security advisor to the President. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.960 So House Democrats said, we want John Bolton to testify. 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.640 And John Bolton did something very interesting and I think 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:59.600 very clever. John Bolton's lawyer went to a federal court 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.880 in DC and filed a pleading that said, Judge, my 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:09.240 client has two conflicting obligations. House Democrats have asked him 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.240 to become testify, but the White House has asserted executive privileges, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.600 said he can't testify. And John Bolton's lawyer said, look, 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.840 my client doesn't know what to do, so your honor, 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.880 he'll do whatever you tell him to do. We put 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.480 ourself at the mercy of the court. You, judge, tell 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:30.159 John Bolton what he should do. The next step is remarkable. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.160 You know what the House Democrats did they said, never mind. 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.640 They literally backed off. So there was another guy, Charles Cooperman, 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.680 who was John Bolton's deputy, who they'd issued a subpoena for. 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.000 They withdrew the subpoena from Cooperman, and they told the 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.520 court we're not going to subpoena John Bolt. Never mind. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.040 We're not going to call him as a witness, we're 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.120 not going to subpoena him, we're not going to fight him. 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.320 And then they get to the sentence. The first thing 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.119 they want to do a subpoena John Bolt, and they 0:17:55.240 --> 0:18:00.159 literally passed on it in the house. Contrast that to 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.560 the impeachment of Richard Nixon. Now Nixon ultimately resigned, but 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.520 if you remember, there was a lot of litigation concerning 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.959 Nixon and you had a grand jury subpoena for the 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.639 White House tapes, remember the Oval office. Dixon had a 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.600 tape tape recording system. Bad idea, but he did it, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.520 very bad idea. By the way, as an aside, I 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.119 don't understand all the people who have ALEXA in their house, like, like, 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.080 why exactly you want to bring a tape recorder into 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.400 your home twenty four hours a day. We're just matockists 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.040 glutton for a bunny. You know, it really would be 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.480 different if they renamed Alexa like like Tricky Dick. People 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.200 would be much much more nervous about it. Okay, set 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:39.240 that aside. In that case, the litigation went all the 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.080 way to the US Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.080 issued an order to the White House hand over the tape, 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.160 and it was I think two days later Richard Nixon resigns. Right, 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.720 that's actually the right way to do it. Look, if 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.399 the House Democrats wanted to get John Bolton's testimony, they 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.520 should have subpoenaed him, and they should have fought for it. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.520 And and the claims of privilege are real, they're serious. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.280 You don't laugh about them and dismiss them. You fight 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.639 about them and litigate them and resolve them. And that 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.920 can be done relatively quickly. As we saw with Nixon 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.719 in this case, they're not interested in that. This is 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.760 ultimately about a political attack on the president more than 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.920 anything else. Well, what I want to know is what 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.919 lunch was like today in the Senate dining hall. But 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:26.960 by that I mean is the Senate taking this seriously 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:29.840 or does everyone Everyone's just made up their mind and 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:34.480 they're dragging it out because I don't know. You tell me, Well, look, 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.159 number one, when we have lunch in the Senate, we 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.720 don't have lunch together. All the Republicans have lunch together, 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.199 all the Democrats. I mean, it's sort of like the 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.040 Crypts of the Bloods. I mean it is. It is 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:49.800 a much geekier, much older version cool. I don't know, 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.919 very yeah, danger um. You know, bill cream is a 0:19:54.960 --> 0:20:01.200 really popular product. It's and that's true every day in 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.119 the Senate. But the way it's working now during impeachment, 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.720 we're starting every day at one pm under the Senate rules, 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.560 that's when the trial starts, right, So the Republicans were 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.400 having lunch meeting eleven thirty or noon each day. So 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:15.240 we went and had lunch, and we're having a vigorous 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:19.520 discussion about about the upcoming trial. And it's actually where 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.840 so Mitch McConnell had drafted I mentioned earlier, had drafted 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.080 that each side we get twenty four hours over two days. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.840 And the Democrats had been screaming that was a massive 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.200 cover up, but it was actually Republican senators. They said, 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.400 you know what, if they want an extra day, give 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.320 them an extra day. Save twenty four hours. But if 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.600 they want three days instead of two, finally, let them 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:40.199 not the end of the world. I thought that was 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:41.960 a very I agreed with that. I thought that was 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.960 a reasonable thing to do. And of course it didn't 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:47.080 stop the complaining at all. You give them, give them 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.159 what they want, and they still say it's a massive 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.119 cover of it. But but that was most of the 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:57.399 discussion actually at lunch today. Going forward, so we're going 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.800 to have opening arguments from the House three days, opening 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.400 arguments from the White House three days, although I guarantee 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:05.760 you they're not going to go three days. I think 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.240 they will be much shorter than that. We've then got 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:14.240 sixteen hours of questions from senators, and the questions are 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.520 a little bit weird. It's not going to be individual 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.000 senators asking questions. As much as I would love to 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.399 cross examine these House managers, and I promise you I 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:24.800 would love love to go out. I'd be looking forward 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.120 to it, Senate rules don't allow it. So our questions 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:29.760 have to be written. I got to write them down 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.680 and then the Chief Justice asks them. And it's sixteen 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:37.000 hours and it alternates typically Democrat Republican, Democrat Republican, So, 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.000 by the way, anyone listen to this, let me let 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.680 me say, if you have a question that you think 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:43.399 needs to be asked, needs to be asked to the 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.120 house managers, or needs to be asked to the White 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:49.560 House team, use Twitter. I'm at Ted Cruz and and 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:51.760 just use the hashtag verdict, and we're going to be 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:55.160 watching Twitter to get from you. I have to say, 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.199