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Speaker 1: Mmm, Hello everybody. I'm Robert Evans, and this is once

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Speaker 1: again Behind the Bastards, the show where we tell you

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Speaker 1: everything you don't know about the very worst people in

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Speaker 1: all of history. Now Here once again, I'm away from

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Speaker 1: my company recording studio in Los Angeles and in Portland, Oregon.

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Speaker 1: Tomorrow there's going to be a rally by a group

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Speaker 1: called Patriot Prayer, who if you haven't heard about, we

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Speaker 1: will be talking about them at length today but with

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Speaker 1: me today, our two guests, and how would you guys

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Speaker 1: like to identify yourselves? My name is David and I'm

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Speaker 1: a spokesperson for Rose City Antifa. My name is Isaac

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Speaker 1: and I'm a spokesperson for Rose City Antifa as well. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you guys are anti fascist activists. Fox News would chi

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Speaker 1: run you as Antifa in uh in square quotes and

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Speaker 1: that's probably fair to say, right yeah? Um so yeah,

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Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about a guy named Joey

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Speaker 1: Gibson and a group called Patriot Prayer, which I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: guess a lot of listeners probably haven't heard of, but

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Speaker 1: they've kind of turned the city of Portland into a

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Speaker 1: battleground over the last almost two years. Now um at

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Speaker 1: a pretty regular base this. So that's who we're talking

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Speaker 1: about today. I know you guys are coming at this

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Speaker 1: with a bit of a bias, obviously based on your position.

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Speaker 1: I'm coming at this with a bit of a bias

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Speaker 1: two because I've just spent the last two weeks reading

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Speaker 1: about Joey Gibson, and it's kind of hard not to

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Speaker 1: when you read the receipts. That's what we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: today is read some receipts. So you'all ready to get

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Speaker 1: into it. Sure, let's go for it, okay. Joey Gibson

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Speaker 1: is a one time failed Republican Senate candidate. He's the

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Speaker 1: founder of Patriot Prayer and either thirty three or thirty

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Speaker 1: four years old. Wikipedia does not seem to know one

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Speaker 1: way or the other, but we'll get that information out

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Speaker 1: of him someday. I would say he's probably the canniest

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Speaker 1: gangster in our new weird age of right wing street gangs.

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Speaker 1: He certainly seems to have more on the ball than

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Speaker 1: a guy like Kevin McGinnis. And I'm gonna guess Gavin

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Speaker 1: McGinnis is probably more well known by most people listening

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Speaker 1: to this right now. Yeah, I would think so. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think Gavin McGinnis is probably more well known across

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Speaker 1: the country, whereas Joey Gibson is much more of a

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Speaker 1: regional figure here in the Pacific Northwest. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's a little bit dangerous because I think that

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Speaker 1: that Joey represents a significantly your threats. So the Proud Boys,

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Speaker 1: you know, they assaulted a bunch of people in New

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Speaker 1: York pretty recently. They're going to be holding a rally

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Speaker 1: as well on the seventeenth and Philadelphia. But they're kind

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Speaker 1: of fundamentally absurd in a lot of areas, which you know,

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Speaker 1: has maybe helped to make people not take them as seriously.

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Speaker 1: But I also think there's kind of a limit to

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Speaker 1: the sort of coverage that a group that like the

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Speaker 1: Proud Boys can get. You know, mainstream news talking about

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Speaker 1: a group where all the members refused to masturbate and

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Speaker 1: punch each other while naming breakfast cereals and stuff. It's

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Speaker 1: a little hard for someone sitting in their house watching

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Speaker 1: a Fox News report to see that person as like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: this is the good guy. I mean, they think they

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Speaker 1: think those people are kind of weird. Patriot Prayer has

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Speaker 1: taken a very different tactic towards their activism, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's probably one that's going to prove more successful

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Speaker 1: in the long run. While the Proud Boys have been

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Speaker 1: widely de platformed and widely condemned after the attacks in

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Speaker 1: New York, although not totally, Patriot Prayer still has most

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Speaker 1: of their platforms and access to most of their platforms.

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Speaker 1: They've been kicked off of Facebook, I don't think they've

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Speaker 1: been kicked off of Twitter. I think they're still on

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Speaker 1: PayPal as well, if I'm not mistaken. I know that

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Speaker 1: some of their financial campaigns were shut down fairly recently

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Speaker 1: over the last few weeks. I can't remember exactly which platforms. Um,

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Speaker 1: I know. I think t Spring was one that they

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Speaker 1: sold their merchandise through, and a few others, but um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure about PayPal specifically. Yeah, let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about Patriot Prayer. They build themselves as a

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Speaker 1: non partisan free speech activism group. Joey's usual spiel when

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Speaker 1: asked about Patriot Prayer goes something like this. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: quote Joey here. This isn't a political thing. I'm not

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Speaker 1: out here to tell you who to vote for. That's

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Speaker 1: not what patriot prayer is about. Patriot prayer is about

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Speaker 1: trying to build a healthy culture and to stand out

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Speaker 1: against the hate. You stand against Antifa and the communists,

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Speaker 1: stand against the white supremacist, the Nazis, whoever it may be.

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Speaker 1: You stand against all these people who think that they

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Speaker 1: run the streets, who think that they can control people

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Speaker 1: with fear. And so patriot prayer has always been about

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Speaker 1: going into these areas where people are too afraid to

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Speaker 1: speak up. I mean, that's just absurd if you look

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Speaker 1: at what Joe Gibson does, what he really is is

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Speaker 1: part of the entries movement of fascism into more conservative circles.

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Speaker 1: That's what he's done since his first public demonstration in Montevilla.

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Speaker 1: What he really does is take much more far right

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Speaker 1: ideas and spread them in a much more mains from

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Speaker 1: conservative circles. That's why you see people like Tiny, his

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Speaker 1: kind of right hand man, wearing a pinocheted nothing Wrong

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Speaker 1: right wing death Squad t shirt at a march. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And uh, we'll get into a little bit more of

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Speaker 1: that later. I think what's important now is that, regardless

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Speaker 1: of it's inaccuracy, the branding does seem to be effective

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Speaker 1: in that it seems to be accomplishing several of his goals.

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Speaker 1: No national media organization would ever be openly sympathetic to

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Speaker 1: Nazi skinheads, obviously, but a group like Patriot Prayer, who

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Speaker 1: goes around wrapped in the flag and who builds themselves

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Speaker 1: is against all forms of extremism, is a little bit

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Speaker 1: easier to uh, you know, get positive media coverage out

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Speaker 1: of and I think Joey has been somewhat successful in

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Speaker 1: engineering a little bit of that. For example, here's how

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Speaker 1: Fox News covered in October thirteenth Patriot Prayer rally. Patriot

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Speaker 1: Prayer Rally in Portland turns bloody American flags saved from flames.

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Speaker 1: That's a title. That's that's that's that's the whole. Now.

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Speaker 1: Were either of you there at that October rally? Um

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Speaker 1: oct that was this year in Yeah. I think that

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Speaker 1: was the flash mob thing that he threw together. Yeah right.

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Speaker 1: I was not personally there, No, but there were people

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Speaker 1: from our group. They're observing and seeing what was going down. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was built as a flash mob for law and order,

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Speaker 1: which you're kind of two weird things to hold together,

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Speaker 1: And it was I think one or two days after

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Speaker 1: the Proud Boys assaulted a bunch of people in New

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Speaker 1: York City, And in fact, it seems like they often

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Speaker 1: time their rallies together. I don't know how much I

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Speaker 1: know there is that a number of Patriot Prayer members,

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Speaker 1: including Joey's right hand man Tiny, are also Proud Boys,

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Speaker 1: and you'll see a lot of them in Proud Boys shirts.

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Speaker 1: And I know that the Proud Boys are holding a

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Speaker 1: march in Philadelphia on the same day that Patriot Prayers

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Speaker 1: holding their mark in the seventeen. Yeah, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know how much coordination there is between them. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think the deal with that event on October thirteenth was

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Speaker 1: there was actually a vigil being held to memorialize a

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Speaker 1: African American man who had been shot by the Portland police,

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Speaker 1: and because of an altercation that had happened at that

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Speaker 1: vigil earlier in the week, Patriot Prayer decided to come

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Speaker 1: down there and confront the people holding the vigil. So

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Speaker 1: that was really the reason that they went out there.

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Speaker 1: And they had a whole lot of different sort of

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Speaker 1: descriptions of what they were out there doing. You know,

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Speaker 1: that the law and order thing, the whole they were

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Speaker 1: protesting against the mayor. They also at one point said

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Speaker 1: that they wanted to pay their respects at the vigil,

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Speaker 1: even though they went and attacked people who were at

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Speaker 1: the vigil. You know, so they really like have this

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Speaker 1: whole library of different descriptions of what it is that

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Speaker 1: they're doing, um when in actuality, what they're doing is

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Speaker 1: they're coming out looking to intimidate people and fight people.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, if you if you spend any amount of

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Speaker 1: time reading the news articles written about Jolie Gibson or

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Speaker 1: talk to Joey Gibson, you get the same handful of

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Speaker 1: basic biographic bullet points about the man. He grew up

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Speaker 1: in Camas, Washington, with quote good parents and strict rules.

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Speaker 1: He describes himself as a rebellious team who had a

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Speaker 1: lot of run ins with the law. Here's a quote

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Speaker 1: from an article about him in The Colombian. After his

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Speaker 1: senior football season, Gibson, a quarterback, got in trouble with

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Speaker 1: the law. There was alcohol probation violations and a break

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Speaker 1: in at a restaurant in Washingle. He spent some time

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Speaker 1: in jail, which led to him dropping out of school

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Speaker 1: for a time. Gibson was homeless, living in Portland, Seattle, Mexico,

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Speaker 1: Hawaii and making bad decisions, he said, which it reminds

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Speaker 1: me a lot about if you've if you've gone to

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Speaker 1: like evangelical tent revivals, the preachers and stuff at those

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Speaker 1: revivals always have you know, I was, I was doing

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Speaker 1: l s D. I was running around with gangs. You know.

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Speaker 1: I was a high rising and low slide and popping

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Speaker 1: reds and busting heads, kicking indoors and banging whorrors. It's

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Speaker 1: it's the way they all. I don't know, and I

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Speaker 1: think it is something on the far right where if

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Speaker 1: you're going to portray yourself a sort of this inspiring figure,

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Speaker 1: you start by talking about and I know Tiny does

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Speaker 1: the same thing. He always will say like I used

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Speaker 1: to be like the anti fig guys filled with anger

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Speaker 1: and you know, crime and all this stuff, and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's actually a lie on Tiny's part, by the way,

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Speaker 1: he has this whole narrative about how he used to

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Speaker 1: be on the left and be anti Trump and then

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Speaker 1: what's converted over But he actually never was. He was

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Speaker 1: actually Republican before Trump was even running for office. That's

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Speaker 1: something that we've uncovered, the same thing with Joey Gibson.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's this whole narrative of you know,

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Speaker 1: rebirth or um, you know, recovery that he wants to

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Speaker 1: push out there. But you know, I mean, dude broke

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Speaker 1: into a locally owned restaurant and stole fourteen hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of checks in cash, you know, and that's that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how you spend that as

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Speaker 1: being like a youthful rebellious phase just so or what.

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Speaker 1: But he's also stolen money from other Patriot Prayer members.

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Speaker 1: There was a a long running sort of monetary dispute

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Speaker 1: between him and a member called Justin Harrington, where you know,

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Speaker 1: Joey admitted that he owed Justin I think it was

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Speaker 1: more than a thousand dollars, but that he was never

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Speaker 1: going to pay it back and Justin was trying to

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Speaker 1: get this money back from him, and it was the

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Speaker 1: thing in that group for a little bit. Yeah, with

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Speaker 1: with Joey Gibson, you know, he has a lot of

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Speaker 1: these sorts of narratives that he tries to tap. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's the thing you're you're saying is that

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Speaker 1: he's he's seems to be able to kind of pluck

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Speaker 1: these strings of these national narratives of politics in a

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Speaker 1: way that resonates with certain conservative news agencies. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's really very paper thin. You know, you look beneath

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Speaker 1: the sort of his spiel, you look beneath his words

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Speaker 1: that he puts out there, these few sound bites, and

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Speaker 1: you start looking at what he does, and you just

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Speaker 1: see how duplicitous he is. I mean, the whole idea

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Speaker 1: that you said in your first quote, he said he

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Speaker 1: wasn't trying to get anybody elected. The patriot prayer events

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Speaker 1: that he had in Portland over the last year were

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Speaker 1: specifically build a campaign events for his senate campaign in Washington.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Yeah, so he's running for he's running for

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Speaker 1: Senate in Washington, throwing these campaign events here in Oregon

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Speaker 1: and then saying that he's not trying to get anybody elected.

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Speaker 1: That it's just like there's no end of the ridiculousness

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Speaker 1: for this guy. And that's the thing. One of theficulties

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Speaker 1: that I can say as a journalist trying to cover

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Speaker 1: this is that you are expected and the job is

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Speaker 1: to try to tell both sides of it, to try

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Speaker 1: to present things as objectively as possible. But in order

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Speaker 1: to present someone like Joey objectively. If you just put

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Speaker 1: out what he says and you don't dig in any

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Speaker 1: deeper into it, then you will come across with him

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Speaker 1: looking the way he wants to look, essentially, like that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. When you've got thirty seconds and a news

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Speaker 1: broadcast to be like, here's what patriot prayer is, here's

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Speaker 1: what antifa is. A lot of people are going to

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Speaker 1: wind up thinking Joey's the guy on the right side

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Speaker 1: of this, yeah, or or at least that there's some

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Speaker 1: sort of equivalence, you know, as a narrative that we

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Speaker 1: see a lot, and you've seen that here in the

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Speaker 1: local media here in the Portland area where it started

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Speaker 1: out with this narrative of both sides, you know, this

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Speaker 1: kind of like oh, two different extremist groups facing off

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Speaker 1: in the street, etcetera, etcetera. But over time the local

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Speaker 1: media has really come around and seeing like, actually, these

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Speaker 1: two sides are incompletely different There's one side that brings

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Speaker 1: out all these white supremacists to Nazis and violent people,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the local community based groups that are

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Speaker 1: organizing in order to defend in their community against this,

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Speaker 1: and really the two sides have nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: each other except for the fact that one is trying

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Speaker 1: to defend the city against the other. And it's it's been, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, gratifying on our part, I think, as those

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Speaker 1: community activists organizing to defend the community, to see the

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Speaker 1: local media kind of realized, you know, for the first

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Speaker 1: time Joey comes out and does his speel, they might

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Speaker 1: repeat it word for word, but over time as they

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Speaker 1: see the evidence sort of building up, they see these

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Speaker 1: sorts of receipts piling up about Joey Gibson and the

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Speaker 1: people in his groups and what they actually do. Then

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Speaker 1: we see this kind of awareness starting to build. We

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Speaker 1: see the media kind of learning that the narrative is

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Speaker 1: only skin deep and looking for the actual truth. And

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Speaker 1: there's actually been some pretty decent investigative reporting in the

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Speaker 1: local area digging into patriot prayer and and who these

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Speaker 1: people actually are, and that's gratifying to see. The national media,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, hasn't quite got there yet. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the issue is that the national media doesn't

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Speaker 1: have quite this this timeline and like kind of soaking

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Speaker 1: in Joey Gibbs and stream of stream of the local

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Speaker 1: media can catalog at each event, you know, the fights,

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Speaker 1: the people throwing up Hitler salutes, the slurs. Whereas the

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Speaker 1: national media comes in, sees one event, sees Joey's speech,

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Speaker 1: and then leaves. And so it's really that that time

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Speaker 1: spent with Joey's vileness that allows you to like really

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Speaker 1: understand what he is and what he does. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: his his speeches. I was just listening to one when

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Speaker 1: you guys walked in and it was all and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of them are about getting past hate,

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Speaker 1: moving past it will address the crowd of counter approaches

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Speaker 1: just and be like, you know, you guys have so

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Speaker 1: much hate in your hearts. That's what we're trying to, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, fight against is all this this hate and

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Speaker 1: anger that the far left has against America. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's when when you have the receipts you can see

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Speaker 1: how hollow it is. But speaking as someone who grew

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Speaker 1: up in Deep Texas and who comes from very conservative background,

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Speaker 1: it plays with a lot of people. Let's get back

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Speaker 1: into his background just a little bit more before we

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Speaker 1: move up to the present day. So we just talked

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Speaker 1: about his bad days when he was committing fraud, robbing, places,

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Speaker 1: but then his middle school pe coach asked if he

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Speaker 1: wanted to coach football, and Joey claims to have used

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Speaker 1: that as the inspiration to sort of clean his life up.

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Speaker 1: He says he got his g e d. And he

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Speaker 1: went to Central Washington University. I know he got caught

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Speaker 1: up in trying to flip houses during the market crash

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, and in general, he seems

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Speaker 1: to have had a pretty normal road up until about

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Speaker 1: the two thousand sixteen election. Now, he claims he was

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Speaker 1: always passionate in politics, but says that quote, it's always

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Speaker 1: been sitting in my house complaining like everyone until on

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Speaker 1: June two, two thousand sixteen, he says he watched coverage

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Speaker 1: of violence outside a Trump rally in San Jose. He

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Speaker 1: claims this made him worry that people would be put

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Speaker 1: off from taking part in politics if they saw violence

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Speaker 1: at political rallies. Quote, Yeah, that put a fire in

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Speaker 1: me that I never experienced in my entire life. Something

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Speaker 1: changed in me at that moment in time, because at

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Speaker 1: that point I had a site at our country is

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Speaker 1: not America anymore, and that was the first time I

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Speaker 1: saw that. Yeah, So this is Joey Gibson's origin story

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Speaker 1: courtesy of Joey Gibson. Yeah, that's that's pretty it's pretty

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Speaker 1: hilarious when you think about the number of videos of

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Speaker 1: violence that have occurred at his rallies that he's shared

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Speaker 1: on Facebook, the number of speakers that he's invited to

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Speaker 1: his rallies that specifically have a message of hate and

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Speaker 1: intolerance and encouraged that sort of violence. He had a

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Speaker 1: speaker at one of his rallies that suggested that anti

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Speaker 1: fascist activists and immigrants should be put on the curb

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Speaker 1: and have their heads stomped in, you know, like, where's

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Speaker 1: the peace and love there, Joey, Well, but can you

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Speaker 1: can you imagine though, if we lived in a country

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Speaker 1: where that guy felt unsafe to talk about curb stopping people, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's not America, you know, you know, and this is

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Speaker 1: this is a thing that you know that we feel

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Speaker 1: like the media has really kind of gotten over this narrative,

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Speaker 1: But this narrative of free speech is really entrenched in

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Speaker 1: a lot of people's minds here in the United States

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Speaker 1: that this people have this right to say whatever they

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Speaker 1: want at any time, and they should be given a

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Speaker 1: microphone and a stage. Jenna lectern in order to kind

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Speaker 1: of spit out that um sort of vile rhetoric. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the thing that we always say is really

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Speaker 1: it's like the actions. You know, the speech is not

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Speaker 1: separated from the actions. And everything that Joey says, even

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Speaker 1: these you know, very kind of mild ecumenical messages that

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Speaker 1: he's putting out there, you really can't unlink that from

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Speaker 1: the violence that occurs because of what he does. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, he always tries to keep his hands cleans,

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Speaker 1: he always steps back when the fight breaks out, and

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Speaker 1: then he just posts the video later on Facebook. He

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Speaker 1: tries to insulate himself from all that so he can

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Speaker 1: continue to have this message um and and try to

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Speaker 1: make that message sound sincere and genuine. But but really

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Speaker 1: you can't separate these two things. And anybody who's lived

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Speaker 1: in Portland or been to any of these rallies, they

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Speaker 1: have that that connection between him and the events that

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Speaker 1: happened at his rally is very cemented in their mind. Yeah, Now,

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Speaker 1: Joey claims that that this watching this violence on T's

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Speaker 1: and sixteen in San Jose is what, you know, inspired

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Speaker 1: him to buy a ticket to the Republican National Convention

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Speaker 1: in Cleveland, which was apparently his first time traveling for politics. Now,

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Speaker 1: I was at the RNC that year too, and I

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Speaker 1: covered most of the major demonstrations and street actions and

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Speaker 1: protests at that point. And this was before there were

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Speaker 1: Obviously anti fascist activists have existed since the twenties or thirties,

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Speaker 1: but anti fall was not a term that people used

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Speaker 1: at that point. There was some black block stuff going

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Speaker 1: on then, but that's a I think it's fair to

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Speaker 1: say different. It wasn't popularly know and I would say

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Speaker 1: people are definitely using the term, but yeah, it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It didn't have the sort of media recognition that it

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Speaker 1: does now. Yeah, the earliest I can find it in

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Speaker 1: mainstream media is about early two thousands. Seventeen. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: really exploded into the national consciousness with the Milo Unapolis Rally, Berkeley,

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Speaker 1: i'd say, and also um the j twenty demonstrations in

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. So right in the beginning of

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Speaker 1: seventeen is really when it started to to become a

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Speaker 1: national term, get that recognition, and the demonstrations and protests

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Speaker 1: at the r n C were I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: say they work home, but I would not qualify them

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Speaker 1: as bloody. You know, I was on the ground pretty

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Speaker 1: much the entire time. I didn't see tear guests deployed

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Speaker 1: in the areas I was in. A couple of people

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Speaker 1: got injured at a scuffle that broke out over a

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Speaker 1: flag burning. A biker attacked some people burning a flag,

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Speaker 1: and a couple of people get injured. But it was

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Speaker 1: it was really, considering it was the r n C

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Speaker 1: and what everybody was expecting, it was a pretty mild event,

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Speaker 1: or the protests were relatively mild. It was. It was

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Speaker 1: fairly peaceable, and actually, I think a lot of us

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Speaker 1: were really relieved by that, because everything leading up to

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Speaker 1: the r n C had led a lot of people

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Speaker 1: to expect that it was going to be kind of

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Speaker 1: a blood bath, and when it wasn't, most people were

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Speaker 1: kind of relieved. Joey Gibson was not relieved. He saw

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Speaker 1: this lack about rageous blood letting and decided he needed

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Speaker 1: to do something about it. Quote. I noticed that the

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Speaker 1: left owned the streets. So I came back committed to

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Speaker 1: getting people involved, to getting people on the street, the

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Speaker 1: libertarian the conservative. So when Joey got home, he put

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Speaker 1: together some flags and he started marching around in Clark County, Washington.

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Speaker 1: At least that's his description of sort of his origin

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Speaker 1: or the origin of Patriot Prayer quote because I didn't

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Speaker 1: know to do. He gradually attracted people in October sixteen

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Speaker 1: Patriot Prayer through a rally in esther Short Park in Vancouver, Washington.

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Speaker 1: It was in support of Donald Trump. That's his claim

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Speaker 1: sort of as the origin of Patriot prayers rallies. As

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Speaker 1: he went to the r n C, he saw the

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Speaker 1: left own the streets and he just started marching around

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Speaker 1: in Vancouver until people glommed on around him. Basically, I

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Speaker 1: think that's a much more accurate sort of description of

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Speaker 1: what his motivation is is, you know he and you

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Speaker 1: see that in their in their discourse and their rhetoric,

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Speaker 1: especially from the followers more than Joe Gibson himself a

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Speaker 1: lot of times, this idea that the streets of a

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Speaker 1: particular city have to be reclaimed from the left, reclaimed

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Speaker 1: from the their sort of demonized notion of communism taking

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Speaker 1: over the streets of Portland or Seattle or whatever city.

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Speaker 1: It is. Because from where I'm sitting, what I saw

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Speaker 1: at the r n C, which is like protests where

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Speaker 1: you know that we had. There were a bunch of

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Speaker 1: dreamers who dressed up as pieces of a wall and

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Speaker 1: sort of peacefully walled off the r n C for like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a number a number of minutes, and there

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Speaker 1: were you know, speeches and stuff, and there were some marches,

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Speaker 1: but there wasn't street fighting. The violence I saw was

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Speaker 1: in line with like someone pulling a sign out of

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Speaker 1: another guy's hand and stopping it on the ground. I

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Speaker 1: saw that kind of thing a couple of times, but

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Speaker 1: nobody was like beating each other bloody, And I guess

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Speaker 1: that's what it looks like when the left down the streets,

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Speaker 1: and that's Joey wasn't a fan of that. So when

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Speaker 1: we come back, we're going to talk about the rise

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Speaker 1: of Patriot prayer and the increasingly bloody rallies and how

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Speaker 1: the city and the police have responded to them. But first,

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Speaker 1: you guys wanna before we we go to the ads

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Speaker 1: that paid us, you want to give free ads to

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Speaker 1: any random products in your life, anything you like, uh

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Speaker 1: not that I can think of this time. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna throw in a free plug for lipped

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Speaker 1: in tea bags. The only tea bags currently sitting on

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Speaker 1: the table that we're occupying. So grab yourself some lipped

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Speaker 1: in tea bags and by the other wonderful products that

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Speaker 1: advertise on their show. We're back. We're talking about knowing

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Speaker 1: how to do things, which the editor of this podcast

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Speaker 1: does and thank god, because otherwise it would sound terrible.

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Speaker 1: I don't edit these podcasts. You guys ready to get

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Speaker 1: back in the Joey Gibson and Patriot Prayer and his

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Speaker 1: Magical Journey. Okay, let's talk so and most of the

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Speaker 1: articles you read about Joey you'll run into a story

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Speaker 1: about him at an early Patriot Prayer rally in two

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00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen, he got into a shouting match with the

431
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,880
Speaker 1: counter protester, stole the protesters sign and tore it up

432
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 1: on camera. Then Joey apologized and gave them in twenty dollars.

433
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: Most recitations of this story, and with a variation of

434
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: the line they parted shaking hands. Now, I think the

435
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 1: point of this anecdote is to make Joey Gibson look

436
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: like a ge. Shucks. He's just a decent guy, gets

437
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: a little passionate at times, but you know, he's a

438
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: He's a good man at his heart. He he doesn't

439
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 1: want this sort of any sort of violence. Um, and

440
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: I've I've run across the story a lot, so I

441
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 1: think it has to be one of the major anecdotes

442
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,160
Speaker 1: he tells about himself to reporters. Again, as you out

443
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: that I've run into this less in the more recent coverage,

444
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: but certainly the stuff from like mid two thousand seventeen,

445
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,719
Speaker 1: this story is dropped a lot. Here's another quote from

446
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 1: an article about him in The Colombian. On Facebook, videos

447
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 1: and YouTube, he preaches hatred. It is a disease. He

448
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: counts the Reverend Martin Luther King among his political heroes.

449
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: He once invited a transgender person to speak in one

450
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 1: of his rallies because he said it's time all people

451
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:27,199
Speaker 1: were accepted, which is a legitimately smart I guess, I

452
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 1: don't know, like it's it's an interesting tactic to be like, Okay,

453
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: we had this one trans person speaks, so it's okay

454
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: that I have guys talking about curb stomping to everybody

455
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: gets to speak. Yeah. I mean, I think with every

456
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: one of these little anecdotes, there's an obvious and overwhelming

457
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: counter example of something that he's done. Like, for example,

458
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seventeen, he personally provided security for

459
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: the hell Shaking Street preachers when they came down to

460
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: protest the trans march at Pride. So he's like, I'm

461
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 1: letting transgender people speak at my events, but I'm also

462
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: supporting these violent people who attack Transpride. Yeah, everyone gets

463
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 1: to say the people who want to live and the

464
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: people who want to kill them both of their opinions

465
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: are valid. Now. Joey Gibson is an Asian American man.

466
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: Patriot Prayer has several non white members which they regularly

467
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: point to in order to prove that they aren't a

468
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: hate group. And I definitely agree that it's unfair to

469
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: call them Nazis because nazis very specific political ideology that

470
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: I don't see shared by Joey. I do, however, think

471
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: after pretty intense research, that it is fair to call

472
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: Patriot Prayer and Mr Gibson fascists, and I think that

473
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: they're lying when they claim not to be. Now, I guess,

474
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: first off, what do you think about that. I don't

475
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 1: think most of them are fascists. I think they are

476
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: like facilitating fascist entryism. I think there's obviously a lot

477
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: of members of Patriot Prayer who are white nationalists, who

478
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: are white supremacists, who are fascists. But as for whether

479
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: Joey himself is, I think he's probably more of a

480
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: like extreme like paleo conservative. Maybe yeah, I think. Um.

481
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: You know, something that they try and say about us

482
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: a lot of times is that everybody that ANTIFA doesn't

483
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: like is a is a Nazi and a fascist. And

484
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: for us, the typology is actually really important, the distinguishing

485
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: between the different types of fascists that are attending these

486
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: events and the different sorts of nationalist politics that are

487
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: in play, especially right now in our in our current

488
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: times in this country. So I think I think most

489
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: people in Patriot Prayer I would call them white nationalists.

490
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: You know, they definitely have a racial component to their

491
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: to their language. They are promoting, you know, this idea

492
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: of anti diversity, um, this idea of this kind of

493
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 1: reactionary anti anti diversity, anti feminism, all these sorts of things,

494
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: promoting this this sort of vision that this country is

495
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: for particular people and those people are the most important people,

496
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: and they want to use that to bolster their um

497
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: idea of like a strong nationalist government. Men. However, as

498
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,239
Speaker 1: Isaac was just saying, yeah, definitely, the entry of them

499
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: is something that's particularly concerning is the fact that making

500
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: these arguments, which they can kind of hide and sneak

501
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: into the mainstream. Um, they are also attracting what are

502
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: we would call like actual Nazis, you know, the sorts

503
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: of people who you know, lionized Hitler believe in killing

504
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: the Jews and genociding other at risk populations. Um. You know,

505
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: all all of these things can be seen coming into

506
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: his rallies because he attracts it like a magnet. Well,

507
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: and I do think it's this is part of why

508
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,719
Speaker 1: it's important to have a deep understanding of kind of

509
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: what went on in Bimar, Germany for the rise of

510
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party, because a lot of the people who

511
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: were early supporters of Hitler and the supporters of the

512
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: Nazi Party, we're not necessarily people who could cleanly be

513
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: described as fascists like Auto. Strasser was a major thinker

514
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: in the early Nazi period and a guy who near

515
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: the end of his life before he was executed in

516
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: the Night of Long Knives, had actually changed in a

517
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: lot of his attitudes. He was definitely very far extreme right,

518
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: but he was also at one point courted by the

519
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: German government as a guy who they thought could split

520
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party in half because he was much more

521
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: moderate than Hitler. And we lose a lot of that

522
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: nuance in history. But I do think it's important that

523
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: like a group can achieve fascist ends without everybody in

524
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: the group being an avowed fascist. We try not to

525
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: refer back to, you know, the pre World War two

526
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: Germany example all the time, because there's plenty of other

527
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: up examples of fascism that are also important to recognize,

528
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: and that one kind of gets brought up a lot

529
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: and kind of built up into this, you know, and

530
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,239
Speaker 1: all be all example of what a fascist government looks like.

531
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: But I think, I think to your point, you know,

532
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: the fact that there were a number of right wing

533
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: political parties that were in coalition in order to bring

534
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: the Nazi government into power is an important thing to note. Yeah,

535
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: this is what we've seen actually in Portland. You know,

536
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: Joey's events will attract you know, the Daily Stormers, Identity Europa.

537
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: Um he'll be working with Kyle Chapman Um and becoming

538
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: of Resist Marxism. Who's the transwoman that he Um had

539
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: speaking his rally who is I think in a white

540
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: nationalist or white supremacists um and has identified herself as that.

541
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: So he is able to sort of build this white nationalised,

542
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: white supremacist fascist coalition. He's able to bring the Proud

543
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: Boys and the Daily Stormer people into like the same

544
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: rally space. Yeah, and it's like there's there's a we

545
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: talked about in a previous podcast. There's a long history

546
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: of fascist groups bringing in in America, particularly bringing in

547
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: sort of diverse people to a like a the German

548
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: American Bund in the Silver Shirts had a guy named

549
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: Chief Red Cloud who was a Native American who wore

550
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: swastikas on his head dress and talked about sort of

551
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: the alliance of Native Americans and Arians against the Jews

552
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And that's there's a long history

553
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: of sort of a diversity within fascist movements. Yeah. And

554
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: and you see them talking about this and constantly relying

555
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: on this as a talking point. You know, we have

556
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: a semi one person, so we clearly can't be racist.

557
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: And you know, Jason Kessler, the guy who organized the

558
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: Unite the Right rallies and Charlottesville and some of the

559
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: leak chat logs that came out about the organizing for that.

560
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: He specifically said, like, we need to get some people

561
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: of color to kind of be our argument for the

562
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: fact that we're not actually racist, even though in the

563
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: same chat logs they're making tons of anti Semitic and

564
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: racist comments. And for Unite the Right too. I think

565
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 1: he actually pointed to Tiny as an example of someone

566
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: they wanted to bring yea to that exactly he did. Yeah. Now,

567
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: there's another couple of other reasons I think to see

568
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: a lot of fascism in Patriot Prayer. One of them is,

569
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: as you stated, the Pinocheted Nothing Wrong shirts, which seemed

570
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: to be fairly popular with at least a certain subset

571
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: of Patriot Prayer members, including Mr Tiny. The back of

572
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: these shirts often has the graphic of a helicopter with

573
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: people being flung out of it and the text to

574
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: make Communists afraid of rotary aircraft. Again, now, if this

575
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: seems a little bit obscure to people listening, Augusto Pinochet

576
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: was the Bruder dictator of Chile. He executed thousands and

577
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: tortured tens of thousands in addition to raping nuns with dogs.

578
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: His men were famous for their death flights, which is

579
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: of course when they would take suspected communists and other

580
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: insurgents and fling them out of helicopters to their deaths.

581
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: Pinochet shirts and other right wing apparel one by pay

582
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: Prayer members also often includes the phrase r w U

583
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: d S, which stands for right wing death squads, although

584
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: I know at least one time when Tiny has been

585
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: confronted about the fact that he had this on his shoulder,

586
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: he claimed not to know what the letters stood for. Yeah,

587
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: the Pinot example is actually really interesting because it's kind

588
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: of an example of this fascist creep in the Patriot

589
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: Prayer movement. If you look back at like early or

590
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: mid seventeen, some of the waterfront rallies in June, July,

591
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: and August, there were you know kids at those rallies,

592
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: kind of four chan edge lords. Um, who would you

593
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: be there with like a free helicopter rides sign? Be

594
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: doing like chance, like you can't run, you can't hide,

595
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: you get helicopter rides. We saw that, I think in

596
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: early December at the Kates Steinley rally to then seventeen,

597
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: and then you see that creep into people like Tiny,

598
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: other people who now wear you know explicitly like we

599
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: s part Pinochet shirts. So that's kind of what the

600
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: trajectory of fascist idea is in the Patriot prayer of

601
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: movement in general, is like they kind of get introduced

602
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: and then they get adopted at large. The fascist creep

603
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: point is really a pretty salient one and an important one.

604
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: Just the fact that it seems like things have gotten

605
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: more visibly extreme over the last year or so of rallies. Um,

606
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: would you say that's accurate based on your experiences, Yes, yeah, definitely.

607
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean the violent aspect is is certainly one aspect

608
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: of how things have gotten more extreme, but also the

609
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: discourse and the language. You know that quote we were

610
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: discussing earlier about Patriot Paris saying they were going to

611
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 1: cleanse the streets of Portland. You know, we didn't hear

612
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: that kind of discourse happening back in early two thousand

613
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: and seventeen, but over time that sort of thing has

614
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: become much more common. We're seeing the instances of references

615
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: to Pinochet and other violent dictators sort of stepping up. Um,

616
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: with that language comes the actual physical violence as well. Yeah,

617
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: and and Tiny has been particularly pictured in and around

618
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: a lot of explicit fascists, including he's He's posted pictures

619
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: on Facebook with the logo of American Guard, which is

620
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: a fair the far right group run by a klansman

621
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: that Joey actually himself has disavowed. Like a day before

622
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: his right hand man wound up posting on Facebook with

623
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: their you know, logo on him. There's a picture of

624
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: him I've got shaking hands with a guy wearing a

625
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: son and red tattoo on his his inner form, which

626
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: is essentially what knatzis like to wear when they got

627
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: to pick something a little bit more subtle in a swastika.

628
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: You know that man is y'arall rock Hill, who's um

629
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: was a Patriot Pray attendee for a long amount of time,

630
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: several months, and you know we had the receipts on

631
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: that the whole time. Joey can have not known that

632
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: this guy was a Nazi and that he was also

633
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: convicted of statutory rape. Yeah, well, so it was in

634
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: fact that that got him finally kicked out, even though

635
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: he Joey had known about this statutory rape charge for

636
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks and then finally had to

637
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: kick him out over it. But it wasn't the naziason

638
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: that got him kicked out? Well? In the the video

639
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: where in Tiny has seen shaking hands with this guy,

640
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: which was posted by Justin Media, which I understand are

641
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: affiliated with with Patriot Prayer, would that be yeah? I

642
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: believe so. Yeah. The title of the video is Tiny

643
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: shaking hands to piss off Antifa, which is again like

644
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: we're being friendly with Nazis because it triggers them or

645
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: something like that. I guess yeah. Now. On August seven, seventeen,

646
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: Joey hosted a rally in Portland. Patriot Prayer members marched

647
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: with members of the white nationalist organization Identity Europa u

648
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: I E was also present at the first Bloody Unite

649
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: the Right rally. They're pretty extreme. I think it would

650
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: be fair to say Tim to Baked Alaska NA. He's

651
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: a fascist entertainer who regularly professes open admiration for Adolf Hitler.

652
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: He was also a headliner at the first Unite the

653
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: Right rally. He was on a lot of the posters

654
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: and stuff. Jason Kessler really bragged about having him as

655
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: a get. Baked Alaska is not the kind of guy

656
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: you hang out with if you weren't cool. Being identified

657
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: as someone who hangs out with fascists, and on October two, seventeen,

658
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: Joey Gibson let Baked Alaska give a speech at a

659
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: Patriot Prayer rally. During that rally, Baked Alaska also live

660
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: streamed himself getting other members of Patriot Prayer to repeat

661
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: the fourteen words neo Nazi slogan about securing the future

662
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: for white children. Essentially, Um, it's not hard to find

663
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: these connections, is the point. There's more. Yeah, we could

664
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: we could get into where they're more time, And I think,

665
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's really like a lot of what

666
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: we do actually as activists is dig that up and

667
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: do the research on that and then make sure that

668
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: we document that and put that online in articles on

669
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: our website, because you know, that's the sort of stuff

670
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: that Joey isn't going to tell you, and that's the

671
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: sort of stuff that we really feel that it's important

672
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: for people to know about him so that they can

673
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: counteract the things that he says with those kinds of

674
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: evidence of activity. Yeah, and I do think that's an

675
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: important point that these sort of people marching in the

676
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: streets with their faces covered are one aspect of anti

677
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: fascist organization, and in terms of like time spent, probably

678
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: a larger aspect is research and you know, the the

679
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: trying to make these connections. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Now, another

680
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: man who marched with Patriot prayer was Jeremy Christian. He

681
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: showed up at Gibson's March for Free Speech rally on

682
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: April twenty nine, two thousand seventeen. I'm not aware of

683
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: other times any march with Patriot prayer. That's the only

684
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: time that we're aware of. He wore a very large

685
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: chain around his neck and an American flag as a cape.

686
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: Will have a picture of him on our website behind

687
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: the Bastards dot com. Uh. He also had a Portland

688
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: Police Bureau T shirt. He looked like the kind of

689
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: guy you would sort of write off as a harmless

690
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: kok at a rally. I've seen a bunch of guys

691
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: not very differently attired, but he was not a harmless kok,

692
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: as you guys know very well. Less than a month later,

693
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: on seventeen, Christian was on a Portland max light rail train.

694
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: He started shouting racial slurs and anti Muslim slurs at

695
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: two teenage girls and three very brave men. Ricky John

696
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: Best Talis and Murden, nam Kai Mesh and Micah David

697
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: Cole Fletcher confronted him in an attempt to protect both

698
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: young women. Christians stabbed best In Namkai Mesh to death

699
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: and badly wounded Fletcher. When he was arrested, Jeremy Christian

700
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: told the police, I just stabbed a bunch of expletive

701
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: in their neck. I hope they all die. He later added,

702
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: that's what liberalism gets you. Now. Christian had a pretty

703
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: long and involved criminal history. Prior to this. He'd been

704
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: arrested for armed robbery and spent a large chunk of

705
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: his adult life in prison. He regularly made death threats

706
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: on Facebook uh and in general showed very obvious signs

707
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: of being a dangerous person. Gibson claims that Jeremy was

708
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: just some nut who showed up at one of his

709
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: rallies and interviews afterwards, he made it clear that he

710
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: views himself as a victim in this tragic mas stabbing.

711
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: As well. He told CBS that his political enemies are

712
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: unfairly using the fact that he played host to a

713
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: white nationalist terrorist. Quote. That's the frustrating part. They're trying

714
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: to use it to control me, to make me stand down,

715
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: and I won't do it. I cannot ensure that some

716
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: crazy person is going to show up and make a

717
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: horrible decision. I can't control everybody. You know, not only

718
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: did Jeremy Christians show up at his rally, he also

719
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,720
Speaker 1: posted tons of violent threats on the Patriot Prayer event page,

720
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: and you know, talked about demasking and attacking Antifa, and

721
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: all of Joey Gibson's followers were gung ho about it.

722
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: They were like in the post, they were commenting um

723
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: affirmatively to that, and and Joey Gibson allowed that to

724
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: remain on his post without any problem because it was

725
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: consistent with his message and consistent with the beliefs of

726
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: his other followers, who he isn't going to to disavow

727
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: in that way. Well, and it's consistent with the messages

728
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: that we've seen posted, or at least one of the

729
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: messages that we've seen posted in advance of the rally

730
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: that's going to happen tomorrow. Some guy named Jacob's Ladder

731
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: posted in the Facebook group for this another opportunity kicks.

732
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: Some anti fi ass is as good as any other day.

733
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: Count Me in Portland has a plethora of lunatics from

734
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: left who need a whooping. Yeah, and you see it,

735
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, just all the time. It's a constant feature

736
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: of Patriot Prayers Facebook page, the threats against the left,

737
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: against really anyone who disagrees with Patriot Prayer. Just recently,

738
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 1: you know, the Council on American Islamic Relations and Oregon

739
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: got um the web funding page for Patriot Pressure. I

740
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: think it was maybe giving steam or something like that. Um,

741
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: they got it shut down, and immediately the threats like

742
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: we should burn down care offices was posted on Patriot

743
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: Prayers page. So Joey can't really disavow Jeremy Christian because

744
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: it's also that online environment that Joey creates that leads

745
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: you the violence in the streets, the slurries, the attacks

746
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: on people on the max. It's just as much that

747
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: as it is the street rallies. Yeah. And and you know,

748
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: at one of Jeremy Christian's hearings, you know, court hearings,

749
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: he likes said he said out loud death to Rose

750
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: City Antifa. And then Joey Gibson before one of his

751
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: August rallies this year in two thousand eighteen, was selling

752
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: T shirts to raise money that had a tombstone that

753
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 1: said Rose City Antifa, and so really their messages are

754
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: exactly the same. Yeah, and we will continue to talk

755
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: about that after the break, because there's another Patriot Prayer,

756
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: remember who's made some explicitly knife based threats that Rose

757
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: City Antifa exposed pretty recently. So we'll get into that,

758
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: but first it's time for an ad pivot. We're back.

759
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 1: We're talking about Joey Gibson Patriot Prayer, and uh, right now,

760
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: what we're talking about is sort of Gibson's claims that,

761
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that a guy who attended

762
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: one of his rallies and posted violent threats on his

763
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: Facebook page stab to people, Patriot Prayer is not a

764
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: violent organization. He has repeatedly said that he will not

765
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: tolerate any of his members advocating violence. I don't want

766
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: them at the rally and they'll be kicked out. And

767
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: it is possible, theoretically that somebody hosting mass gatherings regularly

768
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: like Joey Gibson, would purely by accident, draw in a

769
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: single crazy and dangerous person. That's anyone who hosts a rally.

770
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: It's a potential word you know it could happen once.

771
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: But as we've already talked about, this is not a

772
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: one off. And there's examples of other people who very

773
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: much frightened me that seemed to have the kind of

774
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: potential to be someone like Jeremy Christian, and one of

775
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 1: them is very recently exposed by someone at Rose City

776
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: Anti Fuck because I found this on y'all's Twitter page.

777
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: Joshua Sintel is a Patriot prayer follower and someone who

778
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: will likely be on the rally at the seventeenth. Here's

779
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 1: something he said in a live stream video. I don't

780
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: need no firearms because I like knives. God, I hate

781
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: these s JW's and I can't wait to get up

782
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: to Portlands and see them in fucking person, because I will.

783
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: I've already talked to this guy in the Proud Boys.

784
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: You want to do away with whatever the funk you

785
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: want to do away with Antifa, I'm going to fucking

786
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: come up to Portland and murder your fucking asses. So

787
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: it certainly seems like the kind of potential to be

788
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: another Jeremy Christian, and that and that guy, Joshua Sentell

789
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: was at the rally on and he was right there

790
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 1: on the front lines. He was shouting racial slurs, giving

791
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: Nazi salutes, and he never got kicked out of their rally,

792
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: so apparently they're cool with that. Yeah, it does seem

793
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: to take a pretty long history of open support of

794
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: fascism before you get kicked out of the rallies. But

795
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: I guess we'll see. Maybe he won't be there tomorrow. Now.

796
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: In the immediate wake of the Max stabbings, you might

797
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 1: have expected Joey Gibson to lay low for a little while. Instead,

798
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: he used the tragedy as an excuse to host He

799
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: had another rally. The mayor begged him not to, but

800
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: he held his march anyway. It was obviously ended in

801
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: a very messy brawl. Fourteen people were arrested. The Colombian

802
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: interviewed him in the aftermath of that rally and caught

803
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: him in an apology sort of mood. So here's that

804
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: Columbian article. Gibson called throwing that rally one of the

805
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: tougher decisions he's had to make. He's unsure of why

806
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: extremist attaching themselves to him. Some he thinks might be

807
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: looking for a home or a place to recruit. I

808
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: didn't do a good enough job of speaking out against it,

809
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: he said, adding that when left wing groups contacted him

810
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: and pointed out with photo evidence specific extremists at his rally,

811
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: it was an eye opener. I mean he he had

812
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: to know that ahead of time. He he brought um

813
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: Tim Jeannette Baked Alaska to speak of that rally, and

814
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: then the history of his anti Semitic statements was very

815
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: well known, and he had already been exposed with that

816
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: on the internet. It was common knowledge. He was being

817
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: cited as an in a semi in news articles at

818
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: the time. So the idea that Joey didn't know that

819
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: ahead of time is frankly just bs. Yeah. It certainly

820
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: does not seem he would have had to not read

821
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: anything about Baked Alaska to not have known that. Maybe

822
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: he thought he was a dessert efficient audo. Anyway, this

823
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: eye opener, as Joey said, did not inspire him to

824
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: hold off on further rallies. Patriot Prayer has continued to

825
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: regularly rally mostly Important, but also in Berkeley and at

826
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: one point in Austin to support Alex Jones when he

827
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 1: was banned. This one seems to have more or less

828
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: fizzled out. Some of Patriot Prayers rallies have been relatively peaceable,

829
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: but tremendous shocking violence is an extremely regular occurrence. Now

830
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: y'all may disagree, but from how it looks just researching

831
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: this as an outsider, it seems like the bloodiest single

832
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: rally was June eighteen. UM, I would agree with that. Yeah.

833
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: Patriot Prayer had built it as a rally to quote,

834
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: promote freedom and courage in opposition to the terrifying Antifa menace.

835
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: Portland Police Bureau declared it a riot. One man had

836
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: his skull fractured when the police opened fire on counter protesters.

837
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: There's a video of the altercation, which will link on

838
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: the site. Looking into it, you see nothing being tossed

839
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: by the crowd until the police began firing into the crowd,

840
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: at which point you see the crowd throwing water bottles. Again,

841
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: we'll link it. It happens about seventeen seconds in as

842
00:40:53,920 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: when you seek the fun was kind of Patriot Prayers

843
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 1: response to a rally they held on June three, which

844
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: was built as Tiny's going away rally. Tiny obviously did

845
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: not leave. He's still in Portland and Washington. UM, and

846
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: at that rally, it was kind of very small with

847
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: maybe like but mainly Proud Boys and the ani fascist

848
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: counter demonstration, and the Proud Boys really just went around

849
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: looking for people to assault. That was kind of like

850
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: a big yeah. They just all the kind of random

851
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: people with helmets, with their fists with sticks, um. And

852
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: I think at that rally the police actually said, hey,

853
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: we can arrest you, but you guys should just leave instead.

854
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 1: There's a video of that incident. June was kind of building.

855
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: They think they came off worse in that June third rally,

856
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: so their June rally was really their response to that

857
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: to kind of pump up their machieves, mom really make

858
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: them feel good about themselves again. And what we saw

859
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: at that rally was kind of a really big confrontation

860
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: between a really heavily Proud Boy group of Patriot Prayer

861
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 1: that was planning on marching, that marched and then charged

862
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: an anti fascist line. The skull fracture in that case

863
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: came from a Proud Boy named Ethan Noordine who um

864
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: fraction anti fascist skull. August fourth was a month later.

865
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: This was the next Patriot Prayer rally. This was you know,

866
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: two thousand anti fascists came out to oppose about three

867
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: Patriot Prayer attendees, and at that one, the police kind

868
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: of acted as Patriot Prayers enforcers, keeping people away, but

869
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: allowing Patriot Prayer to have weapons, allowing them to march

870
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: even though it wasn't permitted, and then firing and fracturing

871
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: someone's skull, and also giving separate people chemical burns when

872
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: they wanted to get back to their police cars. And

873
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: we and that's with the videos from that, but yeah,

874
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: in the video about seventeen seconds and you can see

875
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: the police fire and then you see water bottles being

876
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: tossed essentially, And there's other video of that as well

877
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: where you can hear the cops saying are those squad

878
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: cars back there in the crowd, And then that was

879
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: what catalyzed the decision to the fire, and then they

880
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: lied about their being objects throne. Yeah, and there's a

881
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: class action suit currently on going against the police department. Yeah,

882
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: there's a number of them. Yeah, well we'll get into

883
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: that once that's all resolved, I'm sure. But yeah, so

884
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: I think if you dig into the matter, it's hard

885
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: to avoid the conclusion that Patriot Prayer are the agitators

886
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: here from one thing, many of them aren't Oregonians. Vancouver

887
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: is part of the Portland metropolitan area. You can almost

888
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: viewed as like a suburb of the city. Would that

889
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 1: be fair to say, probably, I'd say that's accurate. Yeah,

890
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: it's across the Columbia River in Washington, but a lot

891
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: of people commute down I five into Portland from it.

892
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 1: And in fact, most of the Portland police officers live

893
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: in Vancouver. That half of them live outside the metro area,

894
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: and a lot of those live in Vancouver. And it's

895
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: a more conservative area and very different in culture than

896
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: sort of the Portland that is more famous to people

897
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 1: listening to this who know about Portland from the show

898
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: Portland or whatever. Like, Right, Vancouver's a rather different place

899
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: culturally than a lot of Portland. So it seems like

900
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 1: you could make the case that some of these folks

901
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: are essentially invading what they see as a liberal enclave.

902
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: And there is some evidence to back that up, including

903
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 1: what we talked about a little earlier, a post made

904
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: on the Patriot Prayer Facebook page by guy named Jay Harris,

905
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna read a little excerpt from that, and

906
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: this was an advance of the June eighteen rally. This Saturday,

907
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: June eighteen, the stinch covered in liberal occupied streets of

908
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: Portland will be cleansed, cleansed, I say, the streets will

909
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: be flowing with freedom, The air will be filled with patriotism,

910
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: the cloud show part, the darkness will fade, and the

911
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: glory of America will shine forth. The cheers of celebrations

912
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: shall bless the ears all around. Young children will dance

913
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: as the praises of our great nation will be exclaimed

914
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: without regret. Yeah. So he it's some purple pros right there,

915
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: some very purple pros. But clearly some of these guys

916
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: seem to see what they're doing as something of an invasion.

917
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: Well that's certainly because what Joey considers that, you know,

918
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: we have Joan Cameron saying we're going to keep going

919
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: into these he's called them places of parkness. And when describing,

920
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, coastal cities that have like kind of a

921
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: left wing liberal tradition, Portland, Berkeley, San Francisco, he really

922
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: does see himself as kind of this invading force that

923
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: is planning on cleansing the city of the left. Yeah,

924
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: and um, I did find one example of Gibson kicking

925
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: someone from a rally, Raoul Gonzalez, who sounds like he

926
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: did not get to march with him at least on Junet.

927
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: And Gonzalez is a racist skinhead and was essentially coming

928
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: and he had the red suspenders on. He had I

929
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: forget the band shirt that he had on, but it

930
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: was a swastika knife. Yeah, he is known to wear

931
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: a Hitler youth knife. He has the son and Rod

932
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: symbol on a necklace that he wears. And when he

933
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: tried to march with Patriot Prayer, Gibson told him quote,

934
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: if you supported us, you wouldn't be here because you

935
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: give us a bad name, which I think is pretty

936
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: telling because it's not saying I reject you because you're

937
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: wearing a swastika, I reject you because you're wearing explicitly

938
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: Nazi paraphernalia. It's I reject you because you're being us

939
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: a bad name. And after after he said that, he

940
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: actually let Raoul stay because Raoul refused to leave. So

941
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: Joey was like, well, I can't do anything. I wash

942
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: my hands of this because I have no ability to

943
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: keep people out of my own rally. Apparently yeah, which

944
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 1: is also counter to what he claimed to Jeremy Christian

945
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 1: because an interviews who always say that he kicked Christian

946
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: out of the rally right. Yeah. I also want to

947
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: get into one other subject here, which is sort of

948
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: the claim of this group that they are free speech supporters,

949
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: that that's the and then you'll often hear that in

950
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: sort of Joey talking to mainstream news that like that's

951
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: his his anglers. I'm supporting free speech where free speech

952
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: advocates to Sitala tiny Tozie has been so far accused

953
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: twice of assaulting people who screamed at him, like there's

954
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: one case from the Vancouver Mall, and one from the

955
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: Vancouver Mall in Northeast Broadway, and twelve or so Portland

956
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: and the Vancouver Mall. One was a seventeen year old

957
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: shouted an obscenity to him in Several Proud Boys as

958
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: they drove past in a truck with had a Donald

959
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: Trump fled on it and the Proud Boys got out

960
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: and assaulted this young man, and Tocy wrote on social

961
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: media afterwards, we are not your average victimized Trump supporters.

962
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: We fight back and we know how to throw our hand.

963
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: You get smacked and now you're the victim. You asked

964
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: for it, added another member who was there. And then

965
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: of course there was a separate assault. Mr leadwith when

966
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: that was the one on in Portland. Yeah, yeah, Um,

967
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: so that's that's again, this guy who's often build at

968
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: least as Joey's right hand man, has two credible cases

969
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 1: of assaulting people for exercising their freedom of speech, which

970
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: doesn't seem super consistent, but anyway, it really is consistent

971
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: for what they do. Know, I mean, when we're if

972
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: we're kind of building this idea of what they're doing,

973
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: which is they want to assault the left. They want

974
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: to come in and make the left afraid again, you know,

975
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: as his T shirt has said, you go to make

976
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: communists afraid again of murder basically, so like they used

977
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: violence in this language as two tools in order to

978
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: rally more people to their cause, including uh, you know,

979
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: overt white supremacists and Nazis, and also to try and

980
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: intimidate the public. And that's one of the reasons that

981
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: we do what we do is we want to be

982
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: able to have the community be able to stand up

983
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: and defend itself against this kind of incursion, and we

984
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: don't want people to live in fear people who you

985
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: know are are they kind of at risk people, whether

986
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: it's their politics, their gender or sexual identity, the color

987
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: of their skin, their religion, any of these things. We

988
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: don't want people to have to be afraid in their

989
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: own city of these kinds of groups coming in and

990
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: using them as an example, using them as a scapegoat

991
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: for the gratification of these violent politics. Well, I'd like

992
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: to close out by quoting an article written on medium

993
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: by named justin Wards. Essentially, multi racial fascists was the

994
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: key phrase in the title, and he he's really getting

995
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: into sort of patriot prayers claims about itself and what

996
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: they actually are, and he provides a pretty salient point,

997
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna quote him here. Patriot prayer is a

998
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: prime exam of a cult of action for action's sake

999
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: that Italian writer Umberto Echo described in his essay or Fascism. Echo,

1000
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: who grew up during the rule of Mussolini, said fascist

1001
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: believe action is beautiful in itself and that it should

1002
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: be carried out with little or no contemplation, because thinking

1003
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,439
Speaker 1: is emasculation. When patriot prayer holds a rally, it rarely

1004
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: has a purpose beyond being patriotic or supporting free speech.

1005
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: He obviously puts the little thought into the titles, giving

1006
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: them ridiculous orwellian names like Peaceful Vancouver Freedom March or

1007
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: most recently, the Portland Freedom and Courage Rally. I do

1008
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 1: think this sort of attitude of action for action's sake

1009
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: and everyone is a hero, This cult of the hero thing,

1010
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: I think is um maybe the most direct line you

1011
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: can draw between sort of old school fascist movements and

1012
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: what's going on with a group like this. This attitude

1013
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: of of portraying yourself as a hero and putting yourself

1014
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: in a physical position where you can show yourself as

1015
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: being a warrior almost is like, I think that's that's

1016
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: really key, um to understanding these people, in understanding sort

1017
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: of their place within this broader cosmology. It's definitely a

1018
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: part of the patriot prayer Mythos his group used to

1019
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: call itself. There are two names, American freedom Warriors and

1020
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: Warriors for Freedom, and some of them still have that

1021
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: tattooed on them despite they're kind of not using that

1022
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: name anymore. So, this this idea of the kind of

1023
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: warrior for freedom that crusader that Joey kind of sees

1024
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 1: himself as is definitely a huge part of the drive

1025
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: behind their movement. Yeah, well, guys, I think that's most

1026
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: of what I got here, So I'm gonna I'm gonna

1027
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: close this out before we roll out. Do you have

1028
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: anything that you all would like to plug? I would

1029
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: say if you're if you're interested in more information or

1030
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: seeing some of these receipts of the sort of violence

1031
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 1: of Patriot Prayer and associated groups, definitely visit our website

1032
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: because we have up there a plethora of articles, um

1033
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 1: kind of detailing in and going into um extreme detail

1034
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: about the sorts of things that these groups do, and

1035
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: and it's all documented, and we feel like, really that

1036
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: is the best evidence. You know, we can kind of

1037
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: talk about it and discuss it, and that gets the

1038
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: ideas out there, but like really people should go look

1039
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 1: for themselves and then be able to judge once they've

1040
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,479
Speaker 1: seen the aspects of what Patriot Purse says that Joey

1041
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: Gibson doesn't want you to see when he's talking to

1042
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: the camera. Yeah well, all right, guys, that's gonna be

1043
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: it for today. Thank you both for coming by and talking.

1044
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for having us time. Yeah, thank you. So this

1045
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: has been behind the Bastards. I've been Robert Evans. You

1046
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Bastards Pod.

1047
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: You can find us on the internet at behind the

1048
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: Bastards dot com, where we will have all of the

1049
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: receipts for this episode, including some stuff that we didn't

1050
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: quite have time to get to, but there's a lot

1051
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: of information out there, so please check it out. And yeah,

1052
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: until then, we'll be back soon with another thing, so

1053
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: check it out listening and uh, I love about forty

1054
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 1: percent