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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette

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Speaker 1: and I'm an editor at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Sitting across from me as he always does during the

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Speaker 1: recording of podcasts, as senior writer Jonathan Strickland, Hey there,

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Speaker 1: and uh, do you remember that TV show? It was

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Speaker 1: on many years ago? My two dads. I thought you

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Speaker 1: were gonna say Punky Brewster, not that one. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: do remember my two dads when they asked us if

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Speaker 1: we wanted to do a Father's Day episode. We were

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how we could do something that

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Speaker 1: related to tech stuff, and so Jonathan and I decided

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Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about the fathers of the Internet.

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Speaker 1: And as it turns out, there were two to some

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Speaker 1: massive exponential power. We're going to be talking about a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of fathers of the Internet because well, there

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Speaker 1: were no two or one, or or seven people that

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Speaker 1: were responsible for the Internet as we know it today.

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Speaker 1: There are tons and tons of people who worked on

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Speaker 1: different aspects of the Internet, right, Yes, this is uh,

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Speaker 1: the Internet is a thing that grew out of the

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Speaker 1: contributions of dozens and dozens of people. But really, in

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Speaker 1: order to kind of narrow our our scope a bit,

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Speaker 1: we thought we would really concentrate on our Pannet, which

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Speaker 1: in itself is sometimes considered a father of the Internet

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Speaker 1: because it's a predecessor of the Internet. It itself was

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Speaker 1: not the Internet. It was a It was, however, a

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Speaker 1: network of computers, of of heterogeneous computers, so in other words,

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Speaker 1: they were not all the same type of computer, which

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Speaker 1: was a big deal because, uh, prior to the Arpanet,

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Speaker 1: there really there was really no way of of networking

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Speaker 1: together various different models of computers because they all had

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Speaker 1: their own proprietary languages that they worked on, and one

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Speaker 1: computer's systems was not necessarily compatible with any other computer

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Speaker 1: system to the Internet. From arponnet, I am your father.

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Speaker 1: End of line. Um, yeah, that's true, it's not possible.

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Speaker 1: Well anyway, that and whole that end. Uh, the quote

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Speaker 1: I know is not exactly accurate, but because someone will

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Speaker 1: write in um, yeah, that that was the big thing,

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Speaker 1: And there is a myth, if you will, that the

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Speaker 1: Arpanet was designed by the United States government to create

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Speaker 1: a defense network or a network to share information between

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Speaker 1: different parts of the defense network real life meat space

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Speaker 1: network UM sharing for nation in the event of a

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Speaker 1: catastrophic attack of some sort two ferry information from one

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Speaker 1: group to another. And that's not exactly true, although hey,

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Speaker 1: it is a nice reason. UM the government. Different parts

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Speaker 1: of the government were at that time looking for ways

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Speaker 1: to share information between computers, and so were UM different

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Speaker 1: parts of UH university networks. And those were really that

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Speaker 1: the two UH types of organizations that were really interested

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Speaker 1: in networking computers back in those days. But they all

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Speaker 1: had UM. If you are a regular tech stuff listener,

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Speaker 1: you know that all these different kinds of machines back

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Speaker 1: then were really very proprietary. You didn't have UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: you didn't have a system UH where you made computers,

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Speaker 1: and they would all run the same operating system like

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Speaker 1: you do now with Windows or for example, or Linux. UM.

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Speaker 1: Even IBM systems. I'm sure you know the system three

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Speaker 1: sixty would run in a different operating system than a

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Speaker 1: different kind of IBM computer because it was designed to

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Speaker 1: run on on that specific machine. And of course you

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Speaker 1: had dozens and dozens of different computer manufacturers on making

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Speaker 1: these machines. So you know, you had the problem of

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Speaker 1: trying to communicate between UH one and another, so you

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Speaker 1: needed a protocol that would bridge the gap. Yea. So

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Speaker 1: let's take some steps back before we get into the

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Speaker 1: development of that actual protocol, because I think the journey

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Speaker 1: there is pretty interesting. Oh yeah, I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: say that if you were going to network these machines,

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Speaker 1: which was the goal, that would that would be one

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Speaker 1: of the things you have to do. So in fact,

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Speaker 1: the one of the first people to sort of envision

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Speaker 1: something that that kind of encapsulates what the Internet is,

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Speaker 1: but in a in a smaller way. Is h Venever Bush?

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Speaker 1: I s. Yes. He was a very important fellow in

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Speaker 1: the United States history. He worked on the Manhattan probably ject, yes,

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Speaker 1: which we've talked about before. That was the project where

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Speaker 1: for a few beads we were able to build an

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Speaker 1: entire city. Wait, no, I'm thinking of something else. Yes,

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Speaker 1: yes you are that was that was actually Manhattan. Yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Bush was very involved with the Defense Department in during

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Speaker 1: during World War Two. UM a very very smart guy

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Speaker 1: and uh he helped with a Manhattan project as well

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Speaker 1: as as other projects. UM and one of the things

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Speaker 1: he really wanted to do, and you can read about

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Speaker 1: this in an article in the Atlantic. It's still up

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Speaker 1: on the website called as We May Think. Yep, he um.

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Speaker 1: He came up with well, he was a founder of Raytheon,

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Speaker 1: and he came up with this idea he called microwaves,

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Speaker 1: he called memes and memeics. In his mind, it was

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Speaker 1: going to be a micro film based machine, because that

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Speaker 1: was sort of the epitome of the technology at the time,

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Speaker 1: and the idea being that he would have a database

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Speaker 1: of all the information that he would ever need, an

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Speaker 1: entire library of information, and also that he could create

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Speaker 1: information on this system, and that he would be able

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Speaker 1: to access this information in a very natural way because

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Speaker 1: the system itself would mimic the way people think. So

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Speaker 1: this was kind of a or not maybe not even

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Speaker 1: mimic compliment, perhaps will say, complement the way humans think.

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Speaker 1: So that way, when you search for something, it would

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Speaker 1: be able to bring back the relevant information to you

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Speaker 1: and not just any information that just happened to have

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Speaker 1: that term in it. We you know, we talked about

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Speaker 1: this in our our episodes about semantic web and artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 1: Is this whole idea of contextual information that a machine

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Speaker 1: might be able to recognize. Now, this was something that

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Speaker 1: he was just sort of theorizing about, but it was

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Speaker 1: a very important element of what would go into our

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Speaker 1: bonnet and the Internet. Now, the next person I would

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Speaker 1: talk about besides Bush is Joseph Carl Robnett Lick Lighter

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Speaker 1: or j c. R or Lick to his friends. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's funny because I've read a paper that Lick wrote. Um,

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Speaker 1: and uh that why. I don't want to get too

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Speaker 1: far ahead of where Jonathan's going with this, but um

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Speaker 1: he if you think, well that this this machine, this

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Speaker 1: memics um would be able to call up any basically

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Speaker 1: you would you would take a document and take a

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Speaker 1: photo of it and create a microfilm from that and

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Speaker 1: store it. Because you know, computers back then we're huge.

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Speaker 1: They weren't um reliable like they are now. They were giant. Um,

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Speaker 1: so that was kind of impractical, and so are a

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Speaker 1: large cabinets full of paper. So that was kind of

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Speaker 1: the idea was, Hey, I'll shrink this down into his

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Speaker 1: size where I could just keep it in a desk

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Speaker 1: and find stuff. Um. Well, and you say, wow, that

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Speaker 1: that's remarkably like the Internet. Well, in a way, yes

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Speaker 1: it is, but it's also not that remarkable because Lick

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Speaker 1: has said or um, of course I read this a

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Speaker 1: long time ago, but I remember him saying in this,

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Speaker 1: uh this article that it's not an accident that the

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Speaker 1: Internet sort of mimics the memics. It's the idea was

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Speaker 1: so compelling to the early founders of the Internet, and

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Speaker 1: they said, we like this, Let's try to make this

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Speaker 1: happen with the technology. We have to change it from

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Speaker 1: theory to reality. Yeah. Yeah, So it's it's not completely

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Speaker 1: an accident that what the memics. Um, the concept of

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Speaker 1: the memetics is very much like a computer attached to

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Speaker 1: the Internet and being able to pull up information. And

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Speaker 1: so lit he was working in back in nineteen sixty two.

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Speaker 1: He was working at Bolt Baroneck Newman Newman, which is

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Speaker 1: also better known as BBN. That's going to come up

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Speaker 1: again in a little bit, yes it will. He worked

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Speaker 1: for bb IN and then came up with an idea

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Speaker 1: called he was calling the Intergalactic Computer Network because why

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Speaker 1: think small, And this was the idea of being able

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Speaker 1: to network computers together so that you are able to

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Speaker 1: share information between machines in a very efficient way because

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Speaker 1: you know, the the challenge was that you had all

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Speaker 1: these really smart people working on at the time, very

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Speaker 1: sophisticated machinery, but all of their work was siloed. All

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Speaker 1: of that work was contained within the physical building that

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Speaker 1: that machine was in. Yeah, if you want to share that,

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Speaker 1: that means you have to box that up and send

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Speaker 1: it or or you had to go and use it.

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Speaker 1: You had to you had to yourself plan a trip

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Speaker 1: out to wherever that machine was and share information that way.

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Speaker 1: There was no way of sending it electronically at all,

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Speaker 1: and so you could call somebody and read it to them,

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Speaker 1: but that's still that's electronic still. But the Intergalactic Computer

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Speaker 1: Network was this idea that you would be able to

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Speaker 1: actually have computers communicate with one an they're in share information. Well,

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Speaker 1: he became the head of Computer Research Program at the

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Speaker 1: Advanced Research Projects Agency which is ARPA, and he became

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Speaker 1: the head of that in nineteen sixty three and he

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Speaker 1: began he renamed the Computer Research Program the Information Processing

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Speaker 1: Techniques Office or i p t o IP two and

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Speaker 1: um UH. The Advanced Research Projects Agency is now known

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Speaker 1: as DARPA. We added a d on that UM and

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Speaker 1: it's part of the Department of Defense, which is where

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Speaker 1: that whole concept of they wanted to create a network

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Speaker 1: that could withstand a catastrophic failure UM sort of came from.

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Speaker 1: And it came from because there were there were movements

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Speaker 1: within the United States government to try and create something

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Speaker 1: like that, but that was not the purpose of ARPA

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Speaker 1: net Um, which would grow out of link Lighters projects

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Speaker 1: now link later to Liqui liquid It or rather taught

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Speaker 1: to several other people and kind of talked about his

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Speaker 1: his concept of this interglad to computer network and got

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Speaker 1: them really excited and they sort of jumped on board

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Speaker 1: and also helped champion the cause and get UH funding

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Speaker 1: money and partnerships with various research institutions to agree to

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Speaker 1: try and make this become a reality. A couple of

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Speaker 1: those people include Ivan Sutherland, who was another is another

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Speaker 1: really remarkable guy in computer science history because not only

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Speaker 1: was he part of trying to get this network off

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Speaker 1: the ground, he also invented sketch Pad, which was an

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Speaker 1: early graphical user interface sort of the predecessor to things

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Speaker 1: like Windows and the Mac operating system and really any

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Speaker 1: operating system on any touch device kind of has. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have to go all the way back to Sutherland

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Speaker 1: to thank him for his work. He also was a

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Speaker 1: pioneer in computer graphics. He was a pioneer in augment

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Speaker 1: a reality, in virtual reality, so he was It's interesting

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Speaker 1: because his his focuses were on its folk. I we're

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Speaker 1: on a different area of computer science than network technology,

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Speaker 1: but he was still very much interested in this. He

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Speaker 1: became the director of I p t O in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty four after lick Lighter left the program, so lick

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Speaker 1: Lighter leaves before Arpanette begins. Another person that lick Lighter

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Speaker 1: taught to and got interested in this idea was Bob Taylor,

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Speaker 1: and Bob Taylor became the director of I P t

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Speaker 1: O from nineteen sixty five to nineteen sixty nine, and

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Speaker 1: he was the one who actually sent out the request

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Speaker 1: for quotation the r f Q for building out our

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Speaker 1: Pinett And this was the project where they wanted to

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Speaker 1: connect multiple computers together through a network and create the

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Speaker 1: infrastructure that would make that possible. Now, this infrastructure would

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Speaker 1: have to be able to work of various different kinds

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Speaker 1: of computers and send information between them so that the

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Speaker 1: different computers could understand what they were. Each one was

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Speaker 1: saying because, like we had said before, these computers were

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Speaker 1: working on proprietary operating systems that were not compatible. So

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Speaker 1: they send out this request for quotation to one hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty bidders. Now, most of the companies and research

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Speaker 1: institutions that received these h r f q s thought

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Speaker 1: that the whole idea was just too difficult, outlandish, impossible,

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Speaker 1: just not practical at all. There were quite a few

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Speaker 1: of them probably said why, Yeah, so they want to

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Speaker 1: do exactly there were some that did say why. They

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Speaker 1: received responses from twelve of the one and forty bids

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Speaker 1: they sent out requests for bids uh and out of

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Speaker 1: the twelve, four of them were considered viable by our PA,

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Speaker 1: And it ultimately went down to a couple of different candidates,

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Speaker 1: and the one that stepped down in the end was

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Speaker 1: bb N, which was awarded the bid on April seventh,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine. Yeah, they're they're a very interesting company

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Speaker 1: to don't want to get into too much depth, but

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Speaker 1: they're sort of I think there's sort of raytheon like

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Speaker 1: in that they have done all kinds of different engineering

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Speaker 1: projects over the years, and I always associated them with

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Speaker 1: computing in the Internet, but they their history goes back

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Speaker 1: quite a ways. UM, and they did they they have

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Speaker 1: done much much more than just participate in this pro project.

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Speaker 1: But they were certainly well suited because they were were

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Speaker 1: UM electrical engineering experts. Certainly and UH Taylor left I

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Speaker 1: p t O because of the Vietnam War actually, and

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Speaker 1: Lawrence Larry G. Roberts stepped in and he was program

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Speaker 1: manager and office director at Areva before he became the

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Speaker 1: director of I p t O. And UH he was

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Speaker 1: someone who had who was leading a team within this, UH,

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Speaker 1: this department within I p t O that was working

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Speaker 1: on packet switching. Now, packet switching is something that was

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Speaker 1: being worked on by various individuals throughout the entire world independently.

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Speaker 1: So this was not necessarily When when I say that

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Speaker 1: Larry Roberts and his team worked on packet switching, this

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Speaker 1: is not where packet switching necessarily just comes from. There

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Speaker 1: was a a pioneer in packet switching called Paul Baron

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Speaker 1: who was very much working on this, as well as

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Speaker 1: another person in the UK named Donald Davies Yes. UM

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Speaker 1: also Leonard Kleinrock Yes who ended up working with our

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Speaker 1: pannette through u c l A because u c l

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Speaker 1: A was the University of California at Los Angeles was

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Speaker 1: one of the research facilities one of the universities that

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Speaker 1: became part of the initial Arpanet project, and so klein

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Speaker 1: Rock began to work through our pa net, not directly

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Speaker 1: from ARPA itself, but through u c l A. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the three those three guys are are known really for

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Speaker 1: creating the packet switching part of the Internet, the concept

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Speaker 1: behind packet switching on the Internet, the way it's done.

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Speaker 1: Um and uh actually have a quick overview of packet

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Speaker 1: switching again. UM, well, I was going to get to

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Speaker 1: that in just a second. Um. Actually is a very uh,

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Speaker 1: very diverse team. Baron actually came from from Poland. Um

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Speaker 1: and Uh it's actually now in Belarus, but at the

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Speaker 1: time it was in Poland. And Um, he he had

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Speaker 1: an idea of a network. Now there there's several different

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Speaker 1: kinds of networks. Um. Obviously, you can have one computer

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Speaker 1: in the center to which other machines connect, which is

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Speaker 1: known as a centralized network. And then you can have

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Speaker 1: a decentralized network. Um. If you think about I think

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Speaker 1: Napster kind of used that concept. We have multiple servers,

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Speaker 1: but the machines connect to those main computers, which are

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Speaker 1: in turn connected to a main main computer. UM. Or

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Speaker 1: you know, there are many important computers and lesser computers

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Speaker 1: connect to those, but those that's a decentralized network. UM.

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Speaker 1: But uh, but Paul decided that what he should do

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Speaker 1: is create a or what what you should use for

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Speaker 1: this particular project is a distributed model. UM. And that's

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Speaker 1: the way the the internet works. Uh. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: network of networks and each computer has redundancies. UM. So

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? So if we were using a

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Speaker 1: decentralized network, um, and you sent an email to the

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Speaker 1: net to the main computer that your computer was hooked

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Speaker 1: up to, but that computer was down, your email wouldn't

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Speaker 1: get where it's going. Um. In a distributed network, there

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Speaker 1: are multiple routes that that email can go. So the

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Speaker 1: computer that you were supposed to send it to is down,

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Speaker 1: but there's another way to go. So it goes through

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Speaker 1: that computer and then from there to another computer and

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Speaker 1: it basically follows that path. Now. UM, what they realized,

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Speaker 1: these guys were that this redundancy is good, but they

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Speaker 1: they're actually using redundancy of redundancies on the Internet, the

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Speaker 1: network of networks and said, okay, well, uh, it would

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Speaker 1: be kind of cumbersome to send this all as one file.

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Speaker 1: And if we send it all is one file and

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Speaker 1: it gets bogged down in the direction it was supposed

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Speaker 1: to go, it's not going to get there. So they

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Speaker 1: broke it into pieces called which they decided to call packets.

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Speaker 1: And um, each packet is represented more than once. So

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Speaker 1: let's say, just for the sake of convenience, that you

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Speaker 1: send an email and that's broken down into ten packets. Um.

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Speaker 1: Those ten packets are sent to multiple locations or through

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Speaker 1: multiple locations to get to the end point. And one

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Speaker 1: way or another, those ten packets are supposed to reach

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Speaker 1: there and be reassembled on the other end in the

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Speaker 1: correct order to complete the transmission. So the packets, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, if if one of those computers is down,

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Speaker 1: let's say, and packets three and seven are lost, they

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Speaker 1: have also been sent to other computers in the path,

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Speaker 1: and they will be reassembled in the correct order. Um.

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Speaker 1: And using using that method, Uh, packet switching has become

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Speaker 1: the way we send information over the Internet, and that

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Speaker 1: goes for tiny little files to great big chunks. So

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Speaker 1: Larry Roberts had decided that this packet switching technology, which

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Speaker 1: had was in its infancy at this point, was probably

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Speaker 1: the best way to go when you're talking about having

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Speaker 1: a networked series of computers and you want to get

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Speaker 1: this information from one to another. UM and so that's

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Speaker 1: kind of the direction that the team went in. And

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Speaker 1: also the folks at the various institutions where the computers

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Speaker 1: that were going to be connected together, uh, they also

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Speaker 1: were working on this along with the folks over at

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Speaker 1: our path. So let's, uh, let's let's talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about where these computers were. There. There were

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Speaker 1: four initial host computers for our pannett. All right, these

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Speaker 1: four hosts were the four computers that were going to

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Speaker 1: be connected together. One was at u C l A

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Speaker 1: and it was the University of California at Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: It was an s D S Sigma seven computer running

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Speaker 1: the Sigma Experimental operating System. Uh. Then you had the

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Speaker 1: University of California's color Fried Interactive Mathematics Center, which had

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Speaker 1: an IBM three sixty slash seventy five running on the

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Speaker 1: O S slash m VT operating system. You had the

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Speaker 1: University of Utah, which had the d e C p

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Speaker 1: DP ten computer with the with the ten X operating system,

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Speaker 1: the old Deck machines. And then you had Stanford Research

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Speaker 1: Institute and they had an SDS nine D computer which

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Speaker 1: ran on the Genie operating system. So all four of

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Speaker 1: these machines are different machines running different o s s.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, did you mention that two of those machines

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Speaker 1: were made by the same company yet they use completely

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Speaker 1: different operating systems? No? I did not, and so then yes,

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Speaker 1: but that is true. There are two two of them

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Speaker 1: were made, Um, we're sts computers, but both of them

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Speaker 1: were running different operating systems. So yeah, even the same

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Speaker 1: company's machines wouldn't necessarily talk to each other in the

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Speaker 1: same way. That's true. And so those were the those

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Speaker 1: are the four institutes as well. So you've got u

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Speaker 1: c l A, Stanford, University of California, and um, you've

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Speaker 1: got the University of Utah. Uh. Now, the team over

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Speaker 1: at our PA that was in charge of putting this together. Um,

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Speaker 1: actually what happened was not really the team at Arbo,

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Speaker 1: the team at BBN, because that was the company that

358
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Speaker 1: won out the bid. The team at BBN consisted of

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Speaker 1: Frank Hart who was the leader of the team, Dave Walden,

360
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Speaker 1: who was a programmer and real time systems expert. You

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Speaker 1: had Will Crowther who was another programmer. You had Bernie Cosell,

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Speaker 1: who was a d bugger, so he was someone who

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Speaker 1: would find all the stuff that's wrong with the programs

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Speaker 1: that everyone else is making. You had, Yeah, you had

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Speaker 1: Bob Cohn, was a computer theory expert and an error

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Speaker 1: control specialist and also was the guy they went to

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Speaker 1: when it came to how do we send data across

368
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Speaker 1: telephone lines? That was kind of his master network protocols.

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Speaker 1: You had several Orne Stein who was a hardware specialist UM,

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Speaker 1: and you had another hardware engineer by the name of

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Speaker 1: Ben Barker who joined the team a little bit after

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Speaker 1: the initial UH team got together, and Uh, I think

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Speaker 1: that's everybody. I think I got everyone who was on

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Speaker 1: the that initial team. Now, the approach they made was

375
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Speaker 1: kind of interesting. You know, how do you create this

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Speaker 1: network where these four computers that do not speak a

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Speaker 1: common language, how can you get them to communicate with

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Speaker 1: each other? And they came up with a hardware and

379
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Speaker 1: software solution. So really it's a hardware and protocol solution.

380
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Speaker 1: The hardware approach they took was to create interface message

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Speaker 1: processors imps. YEP. A guy named Mike wing Wingfield actually

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Speaker 1: came up with the the interface that would connect a

383
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Speaker 1: computer to the IMP. Yeah. So these are these themselves

384
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Speaker 1: are computers. These are but these were unlike now the

385
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Speaker 1: computers that we're talking about at these these colleges were

386
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Speaker 1: those enormous computers that you think of in the old

387
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Speaker 1: you know, pictures from the sixties room full of computer. Now,

388
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Speaker 1: the were comparatively speaking, much more simple than those. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I actually have a photo um from u c l

390
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Speaker 1: A that shows uh Klein rock and a picture of

391
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Speaker 1: an IMP, which I'm gonna show Jonathan. Um. It's it

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Speaker 1: kind of looks like a stereo amplifier actually built into

393
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Speaker 1: a wall. It's it's not it's not very exciting to

394
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Speaker 1: look at, but very necessary. At these lights are blinking

395
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Speaker 1: out of sequence. Will give them the blink in sequence. Yeah,

396
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Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a Star Trek computer. Yeah, or stuff

397
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Speaker 1: blink stuff what blinks? And Yeah. So the the imps

398
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Speaker 1: were designed to be the go between. They're actually kind

399
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: of like routers. There were gateways is what they were. Yeah,

400
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Speaker 1: and you connected these physically to the host machines with

401
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: a serial connector, a proprietary Cereal connector, and these then

402
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: the imps themselves would then connect to phone lines that

403
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: had been LEAs for the project. Uh. And they could

404
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Speaker 1: run at about fifty bits per second. That's the data

405
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Speaker 1: transfer speed that they were capable of reaching. And the

406
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Speaker 1: original imps were Honeywell d DP five sixteen computers. And

407
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Speaker 1: actually I read an interesting where I thought I thought

408
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Speaker 1: it was a kind of a funny story Ben Barker

409
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Speaker 1: when he joined the team, he was one of the

410
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Speaker 1: hardware engineers. Uh they you know, he was. They received

411
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Speaker 1: the delivery of the Honeywell five sixteen computer to hook

412
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Speaker 1: up to a host computer, and he wanted to test it.

413
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Speaker 1: He wanted to run some code on and it didn't work.

414
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Speaker 1: And then he realized nothing was working, and so he

415
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Speaker 1: physically took the computer apart and physically unwrapped the wires

416
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Speaker 1: that were wrapped around pins and then reattached them to

417
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Speaker 1: different pins because he figured out that it had been

418
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Speaker 1: wired wrong, so he had to rewire the machine from

419
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Speaker 1: the ground up in order to get to work. Worked

420
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Speaker 1: sixteen hours a day until he got it to work properly.

421
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Speaker 1: That wasn't one of the computers, that was just one

422
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Speaker 1: of the imps. So these MPs, it's surprising that he

423
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Speaker 1: didn't just pitch the thing out the window. Of course,

424
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Speaker 1: I imagine that that would be kind of heavy. So

425
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Speaker 1: these MPs provide the interface, UH from a physical standpoint,

426
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Speaker 1: so that you know, you would send a command to

427
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Speaker 1: the imps. The MP would then send that command along

428
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Speaker 1: to the MP connected to the host computer you wanted

429
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Speaker 1: to send messages to, and then that would UH MP

430
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Speaker 1: would send its message to that host computer that would

431
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Speaker 1: receive whatever the command was UM. And there's a lot

432
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Speaker 1: more to it than that, but that was the basic

433
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: idea and UH. The protocol that first was used on

434
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: Urbanet was called Network Control Program in CP. That was

435
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: actually used for quite a while. It was it was

436
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: not It was not the most elegant protocol. It took

437
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: a while, and it wasn't the most uh flexible protocol

438
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: I there, but it was serviceable. It worked well enough

439
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: so that it could create these connections between these different computers.

440
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: This was the set of rules that the computers had

441
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: to follow in order for the communications to happen. And uh,

442
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: eventually they started to add more stuff on top of

443
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: the basic commands that were built into our ponett at

444
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: the beginning. All Right, So those those other things included

445
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: things like email and file transfer that that was built

446
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: on top of n c P. But n c P

447
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: was kind of it was not the strongest foundation for that.

448
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: So we'll we'll talk a little bit about what took

449
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: over n c P a little bit later. Um. Anyway,

450
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: so that was your basic design, and uh, did you

451
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: do you have the story about the first message that

452
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: was sent on Arpanett? So so well, first I'll say

453
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: Arpanett gets connected, uh in nineteen nine. Um, it's kind

454
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: of funny it actually it actually moved pretty quickly. Um.

455
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: The the contract was awarded in April, right, but the

456
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: the first connection was made later that year. Uh. And

457
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: in fact, all four of the hosts were connected by

458
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: December five, nineteen So April the contracts awarded by December five,

459
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: they've actually managed to create, uh, the the connections that

460
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: that put these four hosts in communication with each other. Now,

461
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: the first permanent link what went up on November twenty

462
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: one nine, and that link was between the imp at

463
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: u c l A and the MP at Stanford Research Institute.

464
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: The other two would join online before the end of

465
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: the year. And the first message was sent by a student,

466
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: Charlie Klein, who was a student at U c l A.

467
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: And the first message was supposed to be asking was

468
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: it asking for an extension for a term paper? No? No,

469
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: actually it was. It was being supervised by Klein Rock

470
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: at the time, so I'm pretty sure that that when

471
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: the he could have just turned around and asked, dude,

472
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: my boss is reading over my shoulder. L O L here. Yeah,

473
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: the first message was supposed to be log in alright,

474
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: so he typed the L and you typed the O,

475
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: and then the system crashed. So the very first message

476
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: sent across arpanet was low. It should have been Hello world. Yeah,

477
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: I was just a little short of that, which is

478
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: you know, of course, the traditional greeting when your first

479
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: starting up a new program. Yeah, so anyway, that was

480
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: the first message was low sent across uh that. Now,

481
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: after about an hour of fiddling with the system, they

482
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: got it back online image to actually do a remote

483
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: log in. So it was a successful test, which is

484
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: sometimes shorter than the amount of time it takes me

485
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: to log in once my systems crashed, that's true. And yeah,

486
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: and so Arpanet was once once again. Towards the end

487
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty nine, the Arpanett was was working. Now,

488
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:17,239
Speaker 1: that was a great achievement, but that was just the beginning. Uh.

489
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: That's when we started seeing the various people working at

490
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: these research institutes as well as within our PA and

491
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: at BBN build on things like email file transfer protocol

492
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: uh and that sort of stuff, where um it became

493
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: a way to expand the features of arpanet. Uh. In

494
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, it was Ray Tomlinson who developed the

495
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,959
Speaker 1: electronic mail system for Arbonett. Yes, he's he's the one

496
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: responsible for finding new life for the AT sign on

497
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,959
Speaker 1: your keyboard. Yeah. He he chose that as the symbol

498
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: to join the names of the recipient and the host

499
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: computer so that the the system would know what computer

500
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: to send it to and then what user on that

501
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: computer would get the message. And that's why our email

502
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: addresses today have that AT symbol on there. It's a

503
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: carry over from that, yes, yes, which I actually kind

504
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: of like that he chose that particular symbol because since

505
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: it has the A in the center. It kind of helps,

506
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: you know, newcomers recognize, you know, it gives us a

507
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: mnemonic device to go at at. Of course, people have

508
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: been trying to come up with the actual name for

509
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: that thing for many years. Um, and it's been hotly

510
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: debated in some circles. Anyway, some circles. There was also

511
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: there was a student at U c l A who

512
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: worked in Klein Rocks department. Who have I heard of

513
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: this guy? Yes, you probably have. He met Bob Cohn

514
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: at U c l A. While Cohn was working on

515
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: the Arpanet deployment. This is a fellow named venton Surf.

516
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, vent Surf. Yeah, you may know him from

517
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: such things as Google. Um, well, hopefully you know him

518
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: from such things as the Internet. Right. So he started

519
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: over at U c l A. And then he moved

520
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: to Stanford and UH and then in nineteen he actually

521
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: went to work for Darba itself, but he and Cohn

522
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: began to work together to start designing something that would replace. Ultimately,

523
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: it would replace the n c P protocols because, like

524
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: I said, they the n c P protocol worked well

525
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: enough for initially connecting these computers together, but it lacked

526
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the the the flexibility that they needed

527
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: once they started coming up with new things to add

528
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 1: on top of just just communication protocols. So he and

529
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: Bob con began to work on what we now call

530
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: t c P I P and uh the Transmission Control

531
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: Protocol on the Internet protocol. Uh. This was much more

532
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: sophisticated compared to n c P, and it took time

533
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: to design it, uh, and once it was designed, it

534
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: took some time to transition to it. In fact, it

535
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: wasn't until January one that n CP was officially retired

536
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: and our bonnet changed over to use t c P

537
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: i P instead. And that I think some people say

538
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: that day, which they also call Flag Day, that that

539
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: day marks the birth of the Internet, because that was

540
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: when we started using the protocols that the Internet relies

541
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: on in order to get you know, it's the set

542
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: of rules that we all follow, or that all the

543
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: machines follow in order to get information from one place

544
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: to another. And that's funny because uh, it really it's

545
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: sort of the birth of the Internet proper is It's

546
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: sort of hard to uh define in in that way

547
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: because uh, you know that the drafts for TCP were

548
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: predated that by ten years um nearly seventies seventy three. Um. Yeah,

549
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: and and Bob con was working on a way of

550
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: getting satellite data networks to connect to land based networks.

551
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: And that's kind of like the The actual growth of

552
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: the Internet was sort of a natural evolution of various

553
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: communication networks connecting together. I mean that is the Internet.

554
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: It is a network of networks and Arpanet became part

555
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: of that in a way. So Arpanett itself was not

556
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: the Internet. Arponnet was a predecessor to the Internet, and

557
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: in some ways was connected to other elements of the Internet. UM.

558
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: But a lot of the stuff that was developed within

559
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: our bonnet would become the backbone of what, at least

560
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: from a protocol standpoint, of what we think of as

561
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: the Internet. UM. Yeah. If you're interested, there is a

562
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: a really uh cool article called How the Internet Came

563
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: to Be that Surf wrote and he gets into the

564
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: history of the arpanet and the Internet. UM. But it's

565
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: really kind of kind of cool because it's written from

566
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: an insider's point of view. UM. One of the things

567
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: that I found kind of interesting was that one when

568
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: they were working on it, UM, they graduate students. Surf included, UH,

569
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: this was such a high level project that you know,

570
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: a quote unquote lowly graduate student wouldn't be allowed to

571
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: speak with authority. So UM, they had requests for comment

572
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: basically saying, so what do you guys think? UM, So,

573
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: without treading on toes UM, people like UH vent Surf

574
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: and the other people who we consider instrumental and you

575
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: know Internet experts were able to uh to speak their

576
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: mind and I think, um, you know, now we go Wow,

577
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: they had to ask him to please comment on this.

578
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: I mean he's he's like, you know, one of the people.

579
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: But you know, it's just kind of funny how that works.

580
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: And UH also mentioned that as their work progressed, the

581
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: military became more interested in using the network in the

582
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: late nineteen seventies. Again yeah, because again you're talking about

583
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: the ability to to communicate between centers very very quickly

584
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 1: share information that could be pivotal to national security. So

585
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: it was obviously something that the military would be interested

586
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: in and in taking advantage of these systems that were

587
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: created for our pannette and either creating a separate military network,

588
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: which was done UM, or adding on to existing networks,

589
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: which was also done. And in fact you could there

590
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: were windows from the Internet into the military networks. Um yeah,

591
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: this was this was sort of what gave rise to

592
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: what we think of today as the Internet. Now. Our

593
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: pinett itself did not last forever. It was decommissioned on

594
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: February nine and was Vince Surf had something to say

595
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: about that. He wrote a poem. Okay, here's here's the poem.

596
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: Vince Surf wrote to honor the Arponnet when it was

597
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: taken offline in nineteen. He said, it was the first,

598
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: and being first was best. But now we lay it

599
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: down to ever rest. Now pause with me a moment,

600
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: shed some tears for all langsyne for love, for years

601
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 1: and years of faithful service, duty done. I weep, laid

602
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 1: down thy packet now, O friend and sleep. Um yeah.

603
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: The funny thing was that the Arpanet was the the

604
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: forerunner of the Internet. And um, but what we learned

605
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: from that, the all the people who were what we

606
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: now consider the fathers of the Internet, basically what they

607
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: learned from the Arpanet was, um, the best technologies to

608
00:37:52,840 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: use in networking, many many computers over long and short distances. Um,

609
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: and you know, the the the arpon nets spawned many

610
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: different kinds of networks, one of which I used extensively

611
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: in college bittenet UM. But you know there were used

612
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: net and and and many others. UM. And these technologies,

613
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, are are really the result of the arpon

614
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: nets UH influence as you know this this primitive and

615
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: later you know, more sophisticated computer network. UM. So we

616
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: definitely derive what is now the Internet and the ability

617
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: to uh to switch packets and communicate with reliable protocols.

618
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: Um to to the efforts of these many, many, many

619
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: many people UH and and UH many of those many

620
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: many people have been awarded countless awards by governments around

621
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: the world. They've received received um honorary degrees by universities

622
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: and other uh you know, other kinds of accolades from

623
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: all kinds of people for the work they've done in

624
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: bringing the world together in communication. So I think that

625
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: it's only fitting that they also receive from us Happy

626
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: Father's Day, fathers of the Internet. We got you a

627
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: goodie bag and a tie you'll you all have to share.

628
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: It's a networked tie. It's got you all have to

629
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: wear it at the same time together. It's all got

630
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: it's just got zeros and ones all over. It's a

631
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: binary tie. It's either it's either tied or not tied.

632
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: That's kind of binary. So anyway, Yeah, that's that's our

633
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: discussion about Urbanett, the father of the Internet. If you will,

634
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: and we hope you've enjoyed it. If you guys have

635
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: any suggestions for our topics you would like us to

636
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: cover in future episodes, let us know you. Let's go

637
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: on Facebook or Twitter or handled. There is text stuff

638
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: h s W or send us an email or addresses

639
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: tech stuff at discovery dot com and Chris and I

640
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: will taught you again really soon. For more on this

641
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how Stuff Works dot com,

642
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

643
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: It's ready, are you