1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. It's a tired morn statement. 2 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: The three toughest jobs out there firefighter, police officer, and 3 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: school teacher. In each one of those categories you talk 4 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: about underpaid, underappreciated, abused, all the sorts of things that 5 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: come along with that territory. Now, I can't speak to 6 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: teaching public school, you know. I can speak to you know, 7 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: being a college professor. It ain't the same thing, trust me. 8 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: But I'm married to a public school teacher, former public 9 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: school teacher now, which I'm very happy about because I 10 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: get to be with her all the time. But I 11 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: would listen to her if she would come home in 12 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: the evenings, dog tired, underappreciated, and anxious for what would 13 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: happen the next day at work. And it was like 14 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: every day was like that. It almost became a running 15 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: joke for us. You know, what do you have to 16 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: overcome today, hunh in order to get back home to me. 17 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: There are times when you think about that, and you 18 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: might say it with a bit of levity, but there 19 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: are times when people that work in public service, they 20 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: don't come home, They don't see their babies anymore, they 21 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 1: don't see their spouse. They don't see those that they love. 22 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: They pour themselves into a job that is thankless, only 23 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: to be discarded. Today we're going to talk about a 24 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: woman who poured her heart and soul into teaching public school, 25 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: into teaching individuals Spanish, a language which was her first language. 26 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: A woman that had carved out a life here in 27 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: the United States, a woman who met her end on 28 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: a dark trail in a little town in Iowa. Her 29 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: name Jahima Graver. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 30 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: body bags. My precious wife spent many many years teaching 31 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: in public schools, and when this case came about for me, 32 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: I knew that it was something that I wanted to 33 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: address and talk about the forensics of it. But you know, 34 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I also wanted to mention the life of missus Graver 35 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: and what she had endured. 36 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: Joe Milimacgraver is a which beloved Spanish teacher at Fairfield 37 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: High School. Students say she is tough but fair and 38 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: they like her. When she goes missing during her every 39 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: day after school walk in the park. The small town 40 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: of Fairfield, Iowa, is worried when the body of Louie 41 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: mcgrabor is found in the park, hidden under a tarp. 42 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: The town of less than ten thousand is shocked, But 43 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 2: when two sixteen year old students are arrested for the 44 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: murder after one of them writes on snapchat about the planning, execution, 45 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: and disposal of evidence, worry in shock turns to disgust. 46 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: Before I go down that path, I wanted to mention 47 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: something to you that had occurred to me. I've shared 48 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: a few things along the line we do about my 49 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: background and about what my world was like as a 50 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: death investigator based upon what we know of this case. 51 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: To start off with, what do you think was the 52 00:03:55,480 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: modality of death in the first homicide case ever worked? 53 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: I'm clueless. I have no IDEA baseball bat to the 54 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: side of the. 55 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: Head, all over the head. I have a guy that 56 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: beat his brother to death with a baseball bat. That 57 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: was the very first homicide I ever worked. And I 58 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: don't know if it's something in the back of my 59 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: mind coupled along with this idea that this poor woman 60 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: is a public educator, that it kind of it kind 61 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: of hooked together in this weird way for me. But yeah, 62 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the first first homicide, I think a lot of people 63 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: would think, oh, yeah, you know, Morgan, he probably you know, 64 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: it's probably a gunshote. 65 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: I actually thought you were going to I thought you 66 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: were going because you know, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly beat 67 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: him outside the head. 68 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And no. It was a guy that had beaten 69 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: his brother to death with a baseball bat in South Louisiana. 70 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: And the reason he had done it is that he 71 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: was the younger brother the perpetrator was, and the older 72 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: brother bullied the entire family and had knocked his brother around. 73 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: And these were older fellows, they were not young guys. 74 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: And the younger brother finally had enough, yeah, retrieved a 75 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: baseball bat and beat his brother to death in the 76 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: front yard of their home. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, that 77 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: was the first case. So my first homicide was actually 78 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: a blunt force trauma homicide. It was not a gunshot wound, 79 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: it was not a stab wound, it was not poisoning. 80 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: It was blunt force trauma with a baseball bat. 81 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: All right. So when you're dealing with this, and it 82 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: goes back to your first case as a death investigator, 83 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: you're all ready every time there's a baseball bat in 84 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: the head, because you know you're gonna if you get 85 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 2: into a fight with somebody. They can use a Louisville 86 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: slugger to do damage on your ribs, your legs, your arms, 87 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: you know all of that. But ultimately you're not gonna 88 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 2: die from getting hit in the shoulder. 89 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: No, you're not getting hit in the head. 90 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 2: Though, with a baseball bat is going to be deadly. 91 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: It absolutely is. And it's a very intimate thing. Do 92 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: you remember when we were kids, they would take an 93 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: old car tire and cut it in half and nail 94 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: it to a telephone poll Do you remember that? And 95 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: you would take swings on the tire that half of tire, 96 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: and you know, I actually had two buddies that were 97 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: doing that and that were taking turns, and guess what happened. 98 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: My friend was staying standing too close to the other 99 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: guy right behind him as he was swinging. The bat 100 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: comes off of the tire and hits my friend right 101 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: in the face and breaks his nose. So there's even 102 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: that kind of secondary energy can be transferred with a 103 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: baseball bat to a a very focal area on that bat. 104 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: So you're transferring all of that energy to once you know, hey, 105 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: you know what it's called. It's called sweet spot, and 106 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: say and every bat has one and so you might 107 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: not hit it every single time, but boy, when you do, boy, 108 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: the level of damage that can be accomplished with this 109 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: is beyond the pale. 110 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: We've got a story today, Joe Scott Morgan that it 111 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: is the fear of everybody who has a loved one 112 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: that is a teacher. Yes, and I count myself with that. 113 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: When I met your sweet wife, Kim, who I think 114 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 2: her first name is at first and middle name is 115 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: sweet wife. You know that she had a three first name. 116 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: It's not you know, Betty Lynn Thomas. It's sweet wife Kim. 117 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: Because of students, these days are different. I know that's 118 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: something that tends to be said of every generation. But 119 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, I have walked down the halls of 120 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: public schools in the last five years doing career day 121 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 2: and other things, and the noise I hear and the 122 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: volume I hear coming from classrooms while teachers are teaching 123 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: is something that we did not experience as children growing 124 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: up in the public school system. Teachers now are faced 125 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: with a much different day when they start teaching. And 126 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: in this particular case, you have a teacher who was 127 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: this is a woman Noema grab loved by the community, 128 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: loved by her school, loved by her students. Even a 129 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: student said she was hard. She was a hard teacher 130 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: because she was teaching her native language. She was teaching Spanish, 131 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: and she took great pride in teaching Spanish. But she 132 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 2: was hard. That fear of any teacher that does their 133 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,119 Speaker 2: job and tries to raise children to a respectable level 134 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: of accomplishment. In that course, what happens when the students 135 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: lose it and kill their teacher with a baseball bat, 136 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: Because that's what happened, Joe. 137 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: You know, there's all boils down to a bad grade. 138 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: And listen, I made my share. I made my share 139 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: over the course of my academic career to include college 140 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: as well. But you know, there's a there's not a 141 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: single bad grade that I didn't earn. I would have 142 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: liked for someone to have waived a wand and you know, 143 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: and the grade had been miraculously transformed for something that 144 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: was a bit more acceptable and appealing. But of course 145 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: that's not the case. And it would seem to me 146 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: that when with Nahema, she she had this this ability 147 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: uh to say, okay, this is you know, this is 148 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,599 Speaker 1: the line in the sand. Uh, then and if you 149 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: crossed this line on the sand, this is these are 150 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: going to be the consequences. And that's isn't that you 151 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: know kind of this theme that runs through nowadays. It 152 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: seems like there are no consequences for for your actions. 153 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: And when you think about, you know, well, what's going 154 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: to happen if I do poorly in this class? Well, 155 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: it's going to drop my GPA. Maybe the promise that 156 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: I made to my parents, uh is not going to 157 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: be upheld because I haven't focused, I haven't asked for help. 158 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: I don't understand what I'm being taught. And let me 159 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: tell you something, it's not always the teacher's fault that 160 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: you don't understand. It's it's the fact that you haven't 161 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: applied yourself many times. But people, you know, they want 162 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: things handed to them. In this case, I think that we' 163 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: got not one, but two perpetrators that you know, kind 164 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: of we're singing that same tune along the way that 165 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: they felt like that this victim owed them something, and 166 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: by extension, because of what happened and what this community 167 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: was robbed of, I think they felt as though that 168 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: the rest of the community owed them something too, and 169 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: they were going to take their payment in blood. As 170 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: we've previously mentioned on multiple episodes, Dave, I think one 171 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: of the problems that perpetrators encounter and keep in mind 172 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: most of the time we don't discuss the actions of 173 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: professional hittman on this podcast. We talk primarily about perpetrators 174 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: who have no experience. Not only not only do they 175 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: not have experience with homicides, I have an experience with death, 176 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: and you're faced with the proposition that, Okay, I've committed 177 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: a homicide. What in the world do I do with 178 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: a body? But let's back up a little bit before 179 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: we get there and just kind of go through kind 180 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: of the timeline and what happened in this particular case. 181 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 2: Nohe mcgrabor sixty six year old Spanish teacher. She was 182 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: well thought of, and I mean this in the broadest 183 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 2: sense of the word. Even the students who had her class, 184 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: had her for Spanish, said she was hard but fair. 185 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: I get having that discussion, but raising your voice arguing 186 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: over great it is usually pretty black and white. Either 187 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 2: you got the answer right or you got it wrong 188 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: on the test. Isn't am I wrong in that? Am 189 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: I missing something here? 190 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: No, no, no, you're you're absolutely right. And again this 191 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: goes to it fascinates me how how students now talk to, uh, 192 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: talk to teachers as if they are peer and that 193 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: that that's the strange thing, because generally you don't associate 194 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: yourself with learning from peers. You learn from those that 195 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: have mastered a craft. And unfortunately most students don't understand that. 196 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 2: I actually got this quote. Well, there's this guy named 197 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 2: Sawyer Mast. He was a student with with our our 198 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 2: two suspects here, Jeremy Gooddale and Willard Chaden Miller. And 199 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 2: he said, having known Chaden and having him in my 200 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: math class, he did not speak in a murderous way, 201 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 2: but in a very aggressive way, for like, in this way, 202 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: just like towards Missus Graeber. Now, Sawyer Mass said he 203 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: heard Chaden Miller taking this tone, arguing over a grade 204 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: in Spanish two or three, depending on they were. I'm 205 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 2: not sure which one it was. It was, but it 206 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: was not just entry level of Spanish. It was a 207 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 2: it was a class that you're expected you need it 208 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: for college back in the day where you had to 209 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: have two years of a foreign language to get in. 210 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: And so he's arguing, wanting a better Joe arguing with 211 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: the teacher over a grade. 212 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: You know, she had told the young man that he 213 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: he is going to receive a particular grade, and he 214 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: was dissatisfied with that. And that's where this idea, you know, 215 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: took root of. Okay, well, I'm not going to try 216 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: to do extra credit. I'm not going to beg to 217 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: maybe retake an examination. I'm going to beat her to death. 218 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: And that that's you know, I don't know how you 219 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: make that leap from here to here in that sense, 220 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: and I don't know that there's really any way to 221 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: excuse it. You know. I think that some people have 222 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: tried to apply, you know, things like mental mental illness 223 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: and all those sort of things. And the thing about 224 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: it is, okay, mental illness maybe, but are we talking 225 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: about two mentally ill people that enter into a confederacy 226 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: with one another. 227 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: That's the thing. You've got two friends, two male friends, 228 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: get together. Apparently my talk with missus Graver didn't go 229 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: as expected. I thought I could argue my way into 230 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: a better grade. It didn't happen. So Jeremy, what do 231 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: you think I should do? And that's this conversation. What 232 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: level do you go? You mentioned learning from peers and 233 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: how they can talk to teachers now with disrespect, like 234 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: they don't owe them any kind of respect. But this 235 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: goes beyond that. This now goes past to I need 236 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 2: a much better grade than I got. She's not going 237 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: to give it to me. What do you think I 238 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: should do? Well, you had a baseball bat. 239 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: Handy, Yeah, let's disappear her. And and so the choice 240 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: that is made at this point is we need to 241 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: try to plan how we can get rid of her. 242 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: And now you know where this plan was going to 243 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: go after that, I have no idea. You know what 244 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: what are you going to do? I mean, what what's 245 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: the deal here? Is this? 246 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: Uh A? 247 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: Is this an idea of vengeance? Or is it okay? Well, 248 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: if we make her disappear, uh ergo, the grades will disappear. 249 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: You know. 250 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: Here's the thing, even if you hadn't gotten caught at 251 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: what you were doing, you're still going to get the 252 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: same damn grade. Uh. That's that's how that's going to 253 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: work out for you. I can tell you that. And 254 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: so you're it's again it comes down to uh to 255 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: an idea that I like to state over and over 256 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: again uh metaphorically. Uh, and it's it's throwing the brick 257 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: through the stained glass window. Uh. You know that you 258 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: you're you're willing to destroy some being so incredibly beautiful 259 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: because it doesn't suit you. It doesn't suit who you 260 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: are or what you are, and that sort of thing. 261 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: So you're now going to choose. And when perpetrators are 262 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: trying to determine what type of weapon to utilize, well 263 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: what's at their disposal. Well, if you're talking to a 264 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: couple of teen boys, you would think, well, perhaps perhaps 265 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: they're not going to have firearms at their disposal. Maybe 266 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: they do, maybe they don't. But you and I I 267 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: know certainly you I can speak to me. Even in 268 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: my limited sense. I had quite the collection of baseball 269 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: bats when I was a kid, still had them until 270 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, I reached college. I don't know whatever happened 271 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: to them, but I had them. And so you know, 272 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: you have those that are there. So it's a weapon 273 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: of opportunity. But this is not Here's the other thing 274 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: about this particular homicide, Dave, because we've talked about weapons 275 00:16:54,440 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: of opportunity as it applies to when somebody's blood is up, 276 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: as they say, if if if you have a reactive 277 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: event within say a home, all right, you're going to 278 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: pick up the weapon that is closest to you and 279 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: you're going to utilize it. Could be a gun, could 280 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: be a knife, could be at a blunt object. That's 281 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: not what they did. They selected a weapon and then 282 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: after they had selected the weapon, they knew where she 283 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: was going to be. So it's a matter of the 284 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: perpetrators understanding the timeline as as it applies to We 285 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: know that she leaves school at this particular time. 286 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: She has a regular routine she she. 287 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: Does and it's something she follows, and they knew that 288 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: her This is her day. She goes and walks, you know, 289 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: to just kind of let her mind go. And then 290 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: every day, you know what she went and did after that, 291 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: She went to Mass every day and she prayed and 292 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: that's every day of the week. She was that involved 293 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: in her church, and so she would leave the walking 294 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: path and go to Mass. And that was people knew 295 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: that about her. 296 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: The students knew. The two perpetrators here knew her routine 297 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: of after school going to the park. They put together 298 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 2: a minimal plan. They know where she's going to be 299 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: by herself, they know the opportunity they will have, but 300 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 2: beyond that, they don't really plan out a whole lot more, 301 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 2: including what to do after we do the deed. They 302 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 2: don't plan what to do with much else except this 303 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: emotional desire to take her life, and they really don't 304 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 2: get past that much. And then they use social media 305 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: Snapchat to actually share information that they ought not know 306 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: with other people, including a friend who is the reason 307 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: we know what happened because she turned on them, you know, 308 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: because what they did was heinous. But the whole point 309 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: being they had a plan, it just wasn't a complete plan. 310 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of these events where you think that 311 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: maybe you universal you you believe that you've got everything 312 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: planned out so that it's all going to come off 313 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: with without a problem. But when both of both Miller 314 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: and good All showed up at the park, they were 315 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: tracking her there at the park, and it's quite chilling. 316 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,719 Speaker 1: It sounds like something out of a horror movie because 317 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: good Ale actually approached her. I die and he's wearing 318 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: a mask, and she's quite taken aback by this. She's 319 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: on this walking trail, Okay, it's this little walk with 320 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: this little park. Her car is parked there. He approaches 321 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: her and he's wearing a mask, and then as he 322 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: gets closer, he pulls the mask down and smiles at her, 323 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: and immediately it stated that she felt relief. She felt relief. 324 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: She it's a person she recognizes. And then all of 325 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: a sudden, Miller just appears from the rear and starts 326 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: to swing this bat and begins to strike her about 327 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: the head and about her upper torso. And they're into 328 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: it at this point in time. I mean, they're you 329 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: know you I guess it's at this point that they 330 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: knew that they had to go forward with what had happened. 331 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: And after she has struck, she's taken off of the trail. 332 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: Miller reports that he witnessed good Al begin to continue 333 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: to beat her with the same baseball bat off of 334 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: the trail at this point in time. As a matter 335 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: of fact, he had to come and take him away 336 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: from the situation. It had actually been put forward that 337 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: good Al was quote unquote trying to put her out 338 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: of her misery, as it were. You know, when this 339 00:20:55,240 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: is being documented all along by them in retroactively. They've 340 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: talked about this on snapchat, how they're going to plan 341 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: this thing out and they're documenting electronically. And then the 342 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: big thing that they're faced with now is we've got 343 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: a dead body. It's our teacher. What are we going 344 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: to do? How do we obscure our presence here? And 345 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: how do we obscure the body? Once death arrives, you're 346 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: free of the pain of this world. I don't know 347 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: how much pain you know he endured in life. I 348 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: know that she had a son that had issues physically 349 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: and mentally, and she loved that child and took care 350 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: of him. Her and her husband both did her husband, 351 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: who she had been married to for a number of years. 352 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: They were divorced, but yet they were great friends and 353 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: still interacted with one another and their adult children. No 354 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: one gets out of the out of life pain free. 355 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: That's the reality of it. But for her life seemed 356 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: to have been quite joyful. She certainly brought joy to 357 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the places that she went to. We've 358 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: heard that over and over. But in her wildest dreams, 359 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: I don't think she would have envisioned her life ending 360 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: along a walking path in this little town in Iowa 361 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: and her mortal remains being abused by being drug off 362 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: into the weeds. 363 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: Joe. When you back up to her final day that 364 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: day November two, she was actually in a discussion where 365 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 2: Jaden actually was raising his voice in an argument with 366 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: her over a grade, and that was seen by people 367 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 2: at school. They saw him really being aggressive towards her 368 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: about his grade. She does her normal routine, goes for 369 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 2: a walk in the park, and that's the last time 370 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 2: she has seen alive. Is when she's going to do that, 371 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 2: when she doesn't follow the rest of her normal routine. 372 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 2: As you mentioned earlier, she goes to mass every day 373 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: before going home, so it's school walk mass home and 374 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: she was reported missing it it didn't take that long 375 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 2: because of her routine to actually find her body. She 376 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 2: was not missing for a very long period of time. 377 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: As they mean, law enforcement started looking into where where 378 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: are the possible places she could be. They were able 379 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 2: to find that she had gone to the park because 380 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 2: witnesses actually saw saw her vehicle being driven away from 381 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 2: the park. 382 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: With two males in the vehicle in the vehicle, and 383 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: that's a bit when these perpetrators drove away in her 384 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: vehicle and it was it was essentially abandoned down a 385 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: road some distance away and was eventually found, but they're 386 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: having to hoof it back to wherever it is. Their 387 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: point of origin is their respective homes. Now that they're 388 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: faced with this idea and this is this is so ridiculous. 389 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: The body is still approximating the area where they I'm 390 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: just going to say it out loud, where they beat 391 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: her to death or a baseball bat. They then take 392 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: up a wheelbarrow, a tarp and crossties to cover her 393 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: body and obscure her body along the trail. I guess 394 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: thinking that the obscuring is going to wind up providing 395 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: cover for them to certain to a certain level. But 396 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: here's the thing. You know, every time, every time in 397 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: forensics you handle something, every time you try to make 398 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: adjustments that is the perpetrator and a scene, you're adding 399 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: elements to this that you can be tracked with forensically, 400 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: whether it's fingerprints or touch DNA, are just at a 401 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: baseline ownership. Let's say that you got your wheelbear from 402 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,479 Speaker 1: Ace Hardware. Well, that wheelbear is unique to that particular brand. 403 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: We can track that. Eventually, it might take some work, 404 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: but we can track that. The tarp that you bought, 405 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: I don't know where you bought it, but it's a 406 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: very specific tarp, and we know the age of it. 407 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: We can assess what lot it came out of, perhaps 408 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: and maybe if there's something that that tarp has been 409 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: used for before at your home that specifically identifies and 410 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: links it back to your home, that's transferred now onto 411 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: the body. From a forensic standpoint, we're going to collect 412 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: that evidence. And when you when you consider what they 413 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: had done to this poor public school teacher, Dave, and 414 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 1: they beat her to death with this bat. Did they 415 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: get rid of the bat? 416 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 2: No? 417 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: Did they get rid of their clothing? No? They took 418 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: the clothing, the bat, bloody towels all back home. 419 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: Right, So how. 420 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: How is it? I think that a lot of people 421 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: will ask, you know, what do you expect to happen here? 422 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: Because when you know when they're when they're found out, 423 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: eventually found out, the investigators are going to find these 424 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: items in the house, and that's that's one of these 425 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: forensic tie backs that we look for, David. 426 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 2: That's where the friend as this story started breaking, as 427 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: missus Graeber is missing and the town is looking for her, 428 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 2: and a friend looks at snapchat messages and says, this 429 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 2: is crazy. They're involved, and it's bad. 430 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: You know. 431 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: It's one thing for young people to say they're going 432 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: to do something weird or mean or whatever. But now 433 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 2: it looks like they have done something, and this friend 434 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 2: goes to police. That was the first thing. Police right away, 435 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: right away knew who their main suspects were. That it 436 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: was these two boys, these two at the time sixteen 437 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 2: year olds. Sixteen year old, sixteen years old. We're talking 438 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: about Chadon Miller. His name's Willard Miller. But he goes 439 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 2: by Chaden and Jeremy Goodale. This friend gave the snapchat 440 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: stuff to police. Police looked at it and when those are 441 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 2: our boys, they went and did the They search, got 442 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 2: a search warrant. That's where they found the bloody stuff, 443 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 2: the bloody clothing, bloody towel. But Joe, I want to 444 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,479 Speaker 2: back up to the murder scene. Yeah, we know that 445 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 2: they beat her with a baseball bat, according to Jaden. 446 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 2: Jayden claims that Jeremy also used the bat and beat her. Yes, 447 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: but the only thing we really know is that Chaydon 448 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: Miller beat her in the head. Now that had she 449 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 2: had to have been knocked unconscious at some point fairly quickly. 450 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, I don't know how many shots to the 451 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: head you can take before you go unconscious. 452 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: Joe, Well, it a lot of that depends, Okay, depends 453 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: on a couple of things relative to blunt force trauma. 454 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: First off, it depends upon the strength that the individual possesses. 455 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: It's wielding this bat. We're talking about a you know, 456 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: a relatively robust, healthy teenage male. He's got enough arm 457 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: strength to do damage enough for bodies. Because we know, 458 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: it's not just in the arms. It's the turning, it's 459 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: the rotation of his hips, it's the wielding of the 460 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: bat from a several different Because you're not going to 461 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: swing this thing most of the time like you swing 462 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: it at the plate, You're many times you'll see this 463 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: kind of tomahawking motion that comes down with both hands 464 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: where you're crashing down. Now, she's diminutive, she's not that tall, 465 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: so automatically you've got leverage over her. It's it's an 466 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: asymmetrical situation. You crash down her from the back. Okay. 467 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: One of the things that's going to happen with that 468 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: first blow is you might not know this, but with 469 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: the first blow, you're not necessarily going to have blood 470 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: that's going to be transferred to the weapon. So you're 471 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 1: going to break the skin perhaps that first blow, but 472 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: when you begin to strike again, okay, and you rain 473 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: down in that area where you may have lacerated the 474 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: area because lacerations arise from blood forced traumas a tearing 475 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: of the skin, the next time you draw that bat back, 476 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: you're going to have a mass of blood. And because 477 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: you're striking in the head, one of the other things 478 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: that you're going to have is hair, and the hair 479 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: blood is so tacky everybody at home can identify the 480 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: attackiness of blood. The hair actually actually is adherent to 481 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: the bat, per the per the blood that's there, and 482 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: you take that away, well, that's an element of this 483 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: poor woman's body that can be tied back to her. Now, 484 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: the underlying trauma that she's sustaining is going to be 485 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: not just these lacerated marks on her head. You've got 486 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: the potential of skull fractures, particularly depressed skull fractures, as 487 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: this barrel of that bat is hitting her. You've also 488 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: got these kind of weird linear contusions that will happen 489 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: on the softer sections of the body like I see 490 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: them on the shoulders and the neck where you start 491 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: striking these soft tissues, and you get these with a bat. 492 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: In particular, a bat is kind of graduated out, you know, 493 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: closer to the handle, more narrow it is. The further 494 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: you get down down the shaft of that bat, the 495 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: wider it is, so you'll have this kind of V 496 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: shaped it's almost a V shaped pattern where the lines 497 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: are kind of splitting off that skins. As you rain 498 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: down onto the skin with the bat, the skin actually 499 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: for a second day wraps up on the sides of 500 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: the bat, so the contusion is going to look bigger 501 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: than the surface of the bat. It's a weird thing. 502 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: As matter of fact, I reckon anybody do this. Go 503 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: online and look up videos of slow motion baseball pitches 504 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: that are struck with a bat, and you will see 505 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: that for a second, at that moment time when the 506 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: bat makes contact with the baseball, the baseball will actually 507 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: flatten for a second, and if you pay real close attention, 508 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: the sides of the baseball just for an instant, now 509 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: that's firmer than skin, will actually slightly bend around the 510 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: bat and wrap. Well. Imagine striking skin like that, and 511 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: that's that contusion that you're going to get. So you'll 512 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: get those contusions, you'll get underlying fractures, and you're pulling 513 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: away this hair. These people, after they attacked her, Dave 514 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: never even bothered to clean the bat. So they took 515 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: home elements of Nohemo with them. They took elements of 516 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: her body on their person in the form of their clothes. 517 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: Maybe they had a towel they were trying to because 518 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: they found a bloody towel and this poor precious woman 519 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: they found all that remained of her in this sense 520 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: as it relates to the murder weapon. They found all 521 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: that remained of her in blood stains and hair on 522 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: the surface of this bat. 523 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 2: One thing you mentioned, Joe, linear skull fracture and is 524 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 2: it compressed depressed skull fracture. 525 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got What will happen is that you can 526 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: have a depressed skull fracture. And the depressed gull fracture 527 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: is unique because if you can concentrate enough energy with 528 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: the item that someone is being bludgeoned with, it will 529 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: kind of separate out the bone. Let me give you 530 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: a good for instance, we're coming into the holiday season 531 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,959 Speaker 1: now and so people buy they get peanut brittle. Okay, 532 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: if you look at a piece of peanut brittle, it's 533 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: not that much different than the external table of a skull. 534 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: You can take a piece of peanut brittle and you 535 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: can kind of lightly tap it with your hand on 536 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: a firm surface, and you'll get this kind of splitting 537 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: that carries on in a fracture. Okay, if you hit 538 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: it hard enough, though, you'll see that you can create 539 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: almost this little island in it and it fractures away 540 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: from all the other areas of that piece of print 541 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: peanut brittle, and it'll create like a little plug of 542 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: peanut brittle. That's a depressed skull fracture. If you can 543 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: concentrate enough energy on that specific area, you'll literally plug 544 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: the bone so that it is free floating from the 545 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: rest of the table of the skull. It won't just 546 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: be like this kind of curveliney or fracture that you get. 547 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: And so that's one of the little nuanced things that 548 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: you look for when you're trying to assess these these injuries. 549 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: You know, at autopsy, which would have been done with 550 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: the hemu's. 551 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 2: Bi Now, when we know that that Jeremy Goodell was 552 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 2: set to testify against Jaden Miller, and I keep going 553 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 2: back to the bat and Chaden Miller being the one 554 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 2: who was seen in the argument arguing with his teacher. 555 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 2: You know, he's arguing with Missus Graeber over his grade. 556 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: We don't hear Jeremy having that same thing. Is there 557 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: a way to tell who was singing the bat? 558 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: I don't know that there's necessarily any physical way. I 559 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: guess that first off, it would require quite a bit 560 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: of calculus in order to be able to compute that, 561 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: I think, but given the dynamic of the environment, it 562 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: would be great if you could, you know, perhaps think about, well, 563 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: what's the maximum height Chaden could have reached with the 564 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: extension of his arms. One of the things that we 565 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: do that has been done in cases past with attacks 566 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 1: like this is that if you have a perpetrator that's 567 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: wielding an instrument, many times you'll measure their arm length. 568 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 1: We do this with the dead as well. We will 569 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: measure arm length, for instance, the dead's ability to facilitate 570 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: handling a weapon. If it's say a self inflicted event, 571 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: or if they're operating a vehicle, could they have reached 572 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: the gear lever where they were positioned at or is 573 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: it possible that they could have been in this position 574 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: and sustained this particular injury. And a lot of that 575 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: comes down to the to the measurements of the dimensions 576 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: of the body in this particular case. I don't necessarily 577 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: know if it would be possible to scientifically prove that, 578 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: and so based upon that you would you're leaning heavily 579 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 1: on testimonial and circumstantial level. 580 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 2: Jud The reason I asked is Miller had claimed all 581 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 2: along he didn't hit missus grab with the bat, But 582 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 2: when it came right down to negotiations and ampleat, they 583 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 2: both played not guilty at first, but Jeremy Goodell did 584 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 2: cut a deal with prosecutors to take a plea and 585 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 2: testify in court against his lifelong pal Jaden Miller. When 586 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 2: Miller found out that, well, he cut a deal as 587 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 2: well and played guilty. It was the sentencing that showed 588 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 2: me who was the major aggressor of these two. They 589 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 2: were sixteen years old at the time, they certainly knew better. 590 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: But Jeremy Goodell got life with the possibility for parole 591 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 2: after twenty five years. Miller got life with the chance 592 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 2: of parole after thirty five years, but it still doesn't 593 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 2: explain how they thought this was the answer to the 594 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 2: problem of a bad grade. 595 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: I don't know that there really is a way to 596 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: explain a way the destruction of a life, but to 597 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: kind of sum it up, I would like to say this. 598 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: One of the Snapchat comments that was that had been 599 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: posted merely said this tom to hot a body showing 600 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: the picture of a jug of clorox, and a second 601 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: post with a selfie stated POV, you're my Spanish teacher 602 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: and this is the last thing you see. Let that 603 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: see just for a second, because now these two perpetrators 604 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: are behind bars for many many years to come. I'm 605 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks