1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson h And 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: right out of the gate, we will tell you that 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: this episode is sponsored by pinterest UH and in fitting 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: with that, it seemed natural to think about the types 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: of things you might look at on pinterest UH. And 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: it's no secret that we absolutely love to talk about 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: food and food history. It's been one of my favorites 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: whenever we do a show about it. Um And because 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: I have kind of been on a tear of doing 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: cookbook cookthroughs in the last couple of years, or basically 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: I try to cook every recipe in a cookbook, it 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: got me starting to wonder about the earliest cookbooks, and 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: that is how I landed at reading about during Coquinadia, 16 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: which is also referred to as Epiceus or sometimes the Epiceus. 17 00:00:57,960 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about that name of Piceus 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: because there's a little bit of a history mystery connected 19 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: to it. But really to talk about this cookbook, we 20 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: have to talk first about the food culture of ancient Rome. 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: So there are only a few surviving written accounts of 22 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: Roman food culture from the first several centuries. Gius Patronius 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: Arbiter in his satire satiricn includes a section that's titled 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: Sena Trimalchionis, and he describes the banquet table of this 25 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: uh the titular character in detail. This is trom Alkio, 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: and that's the person of the story, who is a 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: formally enslaved person who has acquired just ridiculous levels of 28 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: wealth through all kinds of nefarious and unscrupulous means, and 29 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: his life in the time the book is set is 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: all about just indulgence and excess. And as a consequence, 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: the descriptions of this banquet are probably an exaggerated version 32 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: of what a person would typically find in a wealthy 33 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: home of Rome. I mean, it is a attire has 34 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: the name suggests, but it still gives some insight into 35 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: what this world was like. Yeah, and it it also 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: gives some insight into the types of foods that they 37 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: were using. So one course is described as follows quote. 38 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: On the tray stood a donkey made of Corinthian bronze, 39 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: bearing pannier containing olives white in one and black in 40 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: the other. Two platters flanked the figure on the margins 41 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: of which were engraved trom Alchio's name and the weight 42 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: of the silver in each dor. Mice sprinkled with poppy 43 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: seed and honey were served on little bridges soldered fast 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: to the platter, and hot sausages on a silver gridiron 45 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: underneath which were dams and plums and pomegranate seeds, and 46 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: the courses just kept coming. It becomes apparent that the 47 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: visual presentation was hugely important as an aspect of the meal. Quote. 48 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: There was a circular tray around which were displayed the 49 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: signs of the zodiac, and upon each sign the caterer 50 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: had placed the food best in keeping with it. Rams 51 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: vetches on aries, a piece of beef on Taurus, kidneys 52 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: and lamb's fry on Gemini, a crown on Cancer, the 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: womb of an unfarrowed sow on Virgo, an African fig 54 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: on Leo, on Libra, a balance, one pan of which 55 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: held a tart and the other a cake, a small 56 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: seafish on Scorpio, a bulls eye on Sagittarius, a sea 57 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: lobster on Capricornus, a goose on Aquarius, and two mullets 58 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: on Pisces. In the middle lay a piece of cut sod, 59 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: upon which rested a honeycomb with the grass arranged around it. 60 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: So much work. So I got about halfway through that 61 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: and I was like, man, this is a lot right. 62 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: And the guests, incidentally, uh in this book, we're sort 63 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: of chagrined by this course, which is described in the 64 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: text as quote vile fair, and which treml ki A 65 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: assures them is quote only the sauce. And the group 66 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: is next served stuffed capons and sal's bellies and a 67 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: hair equipped with wings to resemble Pegasus. And they were 68 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: also served a wild boar with baskets hung from its tusks. 69 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: Those baskets contained dates from Syria and Thebes. When Tremalchio 70 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: cut open the boar, live birds flew out, which sounds 71 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: incredibly extravagant and also very gross. Yes, I may have 72 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: had a long discussion with my husband about how one 73 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: would achieve such a thing and why would you bother, 74 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: which really submitted to I don't want to eat roasted 75 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: anything that might have bird poop in it um. Another 76 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: source for gaining insight into the tables of ancient Rome 77 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: is Atheneas of Nocratus and Atheneas contributed to the historical 78 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: record of Rome's Tables because he referenced and quoted famed 79 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: ancient foodies in his work, and one of those that's 80 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: brought to light in the writings of A. Senias was Orchestratus, 81 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: who lived between four hundred and three hundred b c. 82 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: On Sicily. So quite a ways back, Archestratus was not 83 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: himself a cook. He was a connoisseur of all kinds 84 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: of foods and wrote a poem titled Hetipatia, and that 85 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: gives all kinds of details about food. But the evidence 86 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: of that poem is found in the writing of Atheneus, 87 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: specifically a piece of writing from c. E which is 88 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: titled Philosophers at Dinner. In that book, the guests gathered 89 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: for the dinner quote Orchestratus to one another. The sixty 90 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: two fragments that appear in the writing of Atheneas are 91 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: all we have of this longer poem. The name Hetepathea 92 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: translates to luxurious life or pleasant life. But even though 93 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: we only have fragments, those quoted fragments once again give 94 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: us an idea of what food was like along the Mediterranean, 95 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: and it's mostly advice on where and when to get 96 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: fresh seafood or how to prepare things for optimal flavor. 97 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: An Orchestratis is rather judgmental about how some people prepare 98 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: their food. In one fragment, uh, he writes, quote, do 99 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: not allow anyone come near you when you bake sea wolf, 100 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: neither Syracusan nor Italiote, for they do not know how 101 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: to prepare them decently, but they ruin them and make 102 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: a mess out of them with cheeses and sprinklings of 103 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: the liquid vinegar and the Sylphian brine. So there was 104 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: clearly plenty of food culture and ancient Greece and Rome. 105 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: Uh well before this cookbook specifically is known to have existed. 106 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: There was enough of a food culture that there were 107 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: people who were famous gastronomes. And we'll talk about one 108 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: of them in a moment. While there is some advice 109 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: about food prep in their writings, most of these astronomers 110 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: were not cooks themselves. They were just really enthusiastic and 111 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: knowledgeable consumers who were also educated enough to write about 112 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: their fondness for fine food. Yeah, there's a whole secondary 113 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: discussion and that could be have which we're not diving 114 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: into here about the fact that probably any of the 115 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: food prepared for a lot of these people was prepared 116 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: by people who were very skilled but were in fact 117 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: enslaved labor, which, of course ancient Greece and Rome had 118 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: its own whole culture of like that being a very 119 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: inexpensive way to run one's home um, which is a 120 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: very messed up thing in and of itself, but it 121 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: also is something to keep in mind as we talked about, 122 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: like all of the ways things get prepared. These people 123 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: are writing about it, but they're really leaning on people 124 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: other people to do that heavy lifting in terms of 125 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: the work. And so with all of this in mind, 126 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: we come to you what is believed to be the 127 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: oldest known cookbook in the West, and that is direct Coquinatia, 128 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: which translates to on the subject of cooking, and this 129 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: book comes with a number of caveats and question marks. 130 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: It's believed to have been compiled initially in the first century, 131 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: although the oldest surviving copy is estimated to have been 132 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: made sometime in the ninth century, so hundreds of years later. Additional, 133 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: it's not known how closely that surviving version might resemble 134 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: its predecessors. It was probably edited, augmented, and otherwise changed 135 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: over the centuries, and of course it was copied by hands, 136 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: so there are probably just errors or stylistic changes made 137 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: to better appeal to the sensibilities of any given copies 138 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: time of creation. Yeah, you'll also see that probably in 139 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: terms of actually writing it down, these may have been 140 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: sort of gathered together from fort century recipes, but not 141 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: actually written down in a collected group until later. It's 142 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: there are a lot of question marks about the beginning 143 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: point of this collection of recipes, and the other big 144 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: question mark around the book is who wrote it to 145 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: begin with. So the name of Picquius is associated with 146 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: several different people in relation to this book, and it 147 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: might be even a more generalized word to describe food lovers. 148 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: This reminds me a little bit of the Tratilla and 149 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: the Trata of Salerno, who we talked about, uh not 150 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: that long ago on the show, and just sort of 151 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: the question marks around was this a person? Was it 152 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: a title? Like what exactly are we talking about here? Uh? 153 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: While we might never know with certainty who Epiceus was, 154 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: the person who was most often cited as the most 155 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: likely candidate is Marcus Gavus Epicius, who was an influential 156 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: Roman merchant from the first century. And we're going to 157 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: talk all about Marcus Gavus Epicius, at least what we 158 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: know of him, after we pause for a sponsor break. 159 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: The legend of Marcus Gavius Epicius's foodie proclivities is fairly epic. 160 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: The wealth he acquired in business is said to have 161 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 1: been spent almost entirely in pursuit of thrilling, unique and 162 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: exceptional eating experiences. One story goes that he traveled from 163 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: Rome to Libya's simply because he had been told that 164 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: the prawns it could be found in Libya were just exquisite. 165 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: This trip was apparently a bust, though he got home unimpressed. 166 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: Apparently he as he neared the shore, a boat of 167 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: fishermen approached the ship that he was traveling on and 168 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: showed him the prawns they had available, and he asked 169 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: if there were any finer in the land, and when 170 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: they said no, he had his own ship turnaround to 171 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: go back home. This is not worth making land. I 172 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: would rather just stay on the ship. Depending on on 173 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: what Sourcire reading, you'll also see those prawns listed as 174 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: crawfish or like another crustacean. There's clearly some translation going 175 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: on there, but just you know, the lesson is the same. 176 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: He found them insufficient. But in addition to food adventures, 177 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: it appears that Marcus Gavius Apicius was also pretty invested 178 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: as a scholar of food, even though this may have 179 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: been considered kind of exceptionally indulgent at the time. Uh 180 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: He has also been credited with creating a cooking school 181 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: to instruct cooks based on the research and the information 182 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: that he had gathered over the years. All of the 183 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: globe trotting and research into food that Marcus Gavius Epicius 184 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: did was also expensive. It was so expensive that he 185 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: ended up spending his whole fortune chasing down the various 186 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: flavors that excited and unfortunately sometimes eluded him. Like those prawns. 187 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: He was also known to throw huge, huge banquets if 188 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: they were anything like the ones that we mentioned from 189 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: literature at the time. It is no surprise that his 190 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: finances were really completely drained by the end of his life, 191 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: and the end of his life is kind of its 192 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: own story. It's one that was recounted by numerous writers 193 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: of the time, including Seneca the Younger, and while some 194 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: of the details vary depending on which specific account you're 195 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: looking at, the basic version is that when Marcus Gavius 196 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: Epicius realized his money was running out, he made the 197 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: decision that death was his best option. Now, this reason 198 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: is sometimes given as a fear that he would starve 199 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: to death. That doesn't really hold water, because he actually 200 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: still had quite a bit of money. Um. You'll see 201 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: different numbers bandied about, but it's like in the you know, 202 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: thousands or sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars. Uh. The 203 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: other reason often cited for his decision to take his 204 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: own life was that he knew he no longer had 205 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: enough money to live that life of pursuing knowledge and 206 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: deliciousness at this sort of grand scale. And so, according 207 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: to pretty much every version, he staged one last lavish 208 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: banquet and he poisoned himself at its conclusion. This is, 209 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: of course, a deeply melodramatic story, and we don't even 210 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: have any certain evidence that this is anything more than 211 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: an exaggerated tale told so often that it just came 212 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: to be believed as a truth. But we also don't 213 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: know otherwise about this food lover's end. So this has 214 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: kind of been the accepted with an Asterist story of 215 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: his life. But here's the important thing, though. If this 216 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: is the Epicqueus who's named in the manuscript, Marcus Gavious 217 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: Epicius was probably the inspiration for the book's name, not 218 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: the person who wrote the book. As a well known gastronome, 219 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: he would probably have been exactly the type of person 220 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: you would dedicate a cookbook too. And even so, the 221 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: earliest estimation for the book's completion is still centuries after 222 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: he lived, that was in the fourth century. So Athenius, 223 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: whose writings we mentioned earlier, actually references epici Use the man, 224 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: but not this cookbook or this gathering of writings in 225 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: any of the writing that Athenius was doing in the 226 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: third century. So that suggests that this book itself may 227 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: not have been particularly well known yet if it already 228 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: existed at that time. Athenius also mentions recipes and dishes 229 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: that were named for Marcus Gavus Epicius, so he was 230 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: certainly well known for his love of food, and possibly 231 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: because of that fame, at some point the name Epicius 232 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: became a common use term. In to writings of the 233 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: first century Roman satirical Povet Juvenile, the word Epicius was 234 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: used to refer to a foodie. Juvenal was born a 235 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: couple of decades after Marcus Gavius Epicius died, just for 236 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: like a timeline reference. Yes, so it would have been 237 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: after he was gone, and it could have been by 238 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: that point twenty years later people were just being like, Oh, 239 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: you're kind of an apiqueous, aren't you. You're really you're 240 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: really fancy in your food choices. I'm going to start 241 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: introducing that in casual conversation, f y. I uh So, 242 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: to continue the case that Derek Coquinadia as it has 243 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: survived today doesn't really appear to be the work of 244 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: a food loving aristocrat like Marcus Gavus Epicius. It just 245 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: isn't written in a way that someone of that station 246 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: would write. It's possible that Epicius was the collector of 247 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: the various recipes, or even that he may have paid 248 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: for an initial effort at bringing them together, like this 249 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: was his little financial project. But the reality is we 250 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: don't know who Epickius is in relation to this book, 251 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: and even the mark is Gavious theory is really an 252 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: educated guess without any hard evidence. According to Ann Garner, 253 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: curator Center for the History of Medicine and Public Health 254 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: and a post that she wrote for the Center, in quote, 255 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: these recipes appear to be written by and for Cooks. 256 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: The Center for the History of Medicine and Public Health 257 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: acquired their ninth century manuscript, which is one of the 258 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: oldest known surviving copies, in the nineteen twenties, and it 259 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: was rebound and restored in two thousand six. Yeah, I 260 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: think I didn't verify this, but I read one account 261 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: that it had already been kind of rebound prior to that, 262 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: and so it wasn't like they were they were completely 263 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: redoing it. They were just trying to maintain it for posterity. Uh. 264 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: And that version of the book was written by hand, 265 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: and it was written by several different people. It was 266 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: created in a monastery in Folda, Germany. And it's possible 267 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: that the Folda book was used as a teaching or 268 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: a practice document for scribes. And that's uh theory that 269 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: comes up because there are a number of strikethroughs in 270 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: the text, you know, kind of rewritten and fixed errors. 271 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: And it's also not heavily decorated. There's another ninth century 272 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: copy of the manuscript that appears to have been copied 273 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: from the same source as the one from Fulda, although 274 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: that source document has been lost. That other ninth century 275 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: copies in the Vatican Library, and the Vatican copy contains 276 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: the same text, but it's illuminated with guilt accents, so 277 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: it's a lot fancier than that other copy. Yeah, you'll 278 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: sometimes see the two side by side, and you can 279 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: see like this looks like a notebook of writing, and 280 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: this looks like a fancy pants unicorn book. It's very 281 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: beautiful and the illustrations are super detailed. Um. Beginning in 282 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: four r Coquinaria started to have print runs for wider distribution. 283 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: The first of these was in Milan. The second run 284 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: came from Venice two years later, and since those first 285 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: two runs it has been reprinted numerous times in a 286 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: variety of languages. Uh. There was also another book titled 287 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: apix A Natio, and that was produced by a nebulous 288 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: figure named Nidarius in the eighth century. And while these 289 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: excerpts of Epicius that Nidarius produced aren't really duplicates of 290 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: what most editions of the Epicius manuscript include. They are 291 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: often included with printings of Dereka as supplemental material because 292 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: the style is very similar. It does kind of match 293 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: up and seem like it could be of the same 294 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: group that maybe some of those had been cold and 295 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: then got used in this later, smaller publication. This cookbook 296 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: has been copied and reprinted for centuries, but it didn't 297 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: make it into the English language until nine when Joseph 298 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: Dahmer's Veiling published his translation and also made a case 299 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: to encourage academia to just embrace food scholarship. He describes 300 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: in the preface to the book how studying food offers 301 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: insight into the lives of the people who ate it, 302 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: writing quote, it has been often said that the way 303 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: to a man's heart is through his stomach. So here 304 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: is hoping that we may find a better way of 305 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: knowing old Rome and antique private life through the study 306 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: of this cookery book. He reiterates this belief in the 307 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: opening line of the book section of analysis, with quote, 308 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: anyone who would know something worthwhile about the private and 309 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: public lives of the ancients should be well acquainted with 310 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: their table. I feel like this is like the flag 311 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: that we could carry through every episode of Unearthed, right, 312 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: we talked about it all the time, like, oh, now 313 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: we know that they ate grains, which means that they 314 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: were either trading or doing their own. It really is 315 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: like a way to to engineer your model of what 316 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: it was like to live in these previous times. Veiling 317 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: also cautions in his book about not leaning on presumptions 318 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: and partial facts that have been repeated over the years 319 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: so many times that people have taken them as fact 320 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: rather than examining historical evidence more carefully writing quote, they 321 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: have become fixed ideas, making reconstruction difficult for anyone who 322 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: would gain a picture along rational lines. Failing lists the 323 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: three Latin editions of the epiceous book that he used 324 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: for his translation. The first was a fifteen forty one 325 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: edition by Albanus Toranis, and the second was the work 326 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: of Martinis Lister, who produced multiple editions of the book 327 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: between seventeen o five and seventeen o nine. The third 328 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: was a n edition by C. G Iratano and Friedrich Volmer. 329 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: And you'll notice, of course that these are all additions 330 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: that came out well after the recipes are believed to 331 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: have been collected initially, like many hundreds of years. Hundreds 332 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: of years. Yeah, yeah, it's it is one of those 333 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: things that I wanted to make sure we pointed that out, 334 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: because we're talking about this ancient book, but we're talking 335 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: about of version that may not bear all that much 336 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: resemblance to the initial one. We don't know, And that 337 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: Jarrattano Vulmer edition in particular got some rather harsh comments 338 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: in the Classical Review when it came out in h 339 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: Here is an excerpt of the review, penned by classical 340 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: scholar Wallace Martin Lindsay, and it gives you evidence into 341 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: how hard it can be to work on a project 342 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: like this that reaches so far back into human history. 343 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: He writes, quote, Jarrattano did what nine out of ten 344 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: editors in these days would do. He contented himself with 345 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: the manuscripts within reach, the ninth century manuscript in the 346 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: Vatican Library, the other Italian Renaissance manuscripts. He did not 347 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: cross the sea to Cheltenham, where, in a library whose 348 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: door opens but to golden keys, is imprisoned another ninth 349 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: century manuscript of a picqueous destined, doubtless for the shelves 350 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: of some dollar king whose freakish son will use its 351 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: pages to light a super cigar. Indeed, he seemed unaware 352 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: of its existence. Uckly, Vulmer intervened. The two ninth century 353 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: manuscripts are the only foundation for an addition. So this 354 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: is pretty harsh. I like that he manages to not 355 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: only criticize the editor, but also like society at large, 356 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: like none of you value history like a hypothetical book buyer. However, 357 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: Lindsay does go on to praise this edition in the review, 358 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: even referring to it as a gem in spite of 359 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: those initial criticisms about relying on too late version. He 360 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: definitely praises Vulmer for his involvement in the work and 361 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: and seems to think that it would have been a 362 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: disaster without him and the work of Vulmer even predating 363 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: the publication of that edition. Also tackles the subject of 364 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: the nature of the Latin that's used in the available manuscript. 365 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: So this is something that has caused a lot of 366 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: debate over the years because a lot of it is 367 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: written in what is called vulgar Latin. That really just 368 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: means it's like colloquial or casual Latin. As opposed to 369 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: more formal classical Latin, and Vulner arrived at the conclusion 370 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: that this was part of the book being copied as 371 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: it passed through time, and that probably somewhere in the 372 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: fourth or fifth century, one of the copies that was 373 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: made that survived was in the more casual language form. 374 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 1: So this is something probably most of us are familiar with. 375 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: It's sort of like if you were to copy a 376 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: recipe out of an old cookbook and abbreviate or shift 377 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: the verbiage to more modern sensibilities. But there have also 378 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: been historians over the years, including Lindsay, who have made 379 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: the case that, because it's a book of cookery really 380 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: a how to manual, not philosophy or literature, that the 381 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: Epicqueous Manuscript might have always been in vulgar Latin right 382 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: from the start. That would make sense in a lot 383 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: of ways, but that also doesn't entirely hold because there 384 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: are some sections of the book that use more classical Latin, 385 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: and suggests that the sections and vulgar Latin may have 386 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 1: been integrated into the text over the years. So in 387 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: the English translation, Bailing establishes his theory that I think 388 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: has continued to persist that this is not the work 389 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: of any one person, but it is the work of many, 390 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: he writes, quote in our opinion unfounded, of course, by 391 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: positive proof. The epicqueous book is somewhat of a gastronomic bible, 392 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: consisting of ten different books by several authors, originating in 393 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: Greece and taken over by the Romans along with the 394 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: rest of Greek culture as spoils of war. These books 395 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 1: or chapters or fragments thereof must have been in vogue 396 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: long before they were collected and assembled in the present form. 397 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: So now that we've talked about the murky origins and 398 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 1: attribution of this book. Coming up, we will talk about 399 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: its contents. But first we will take a quick break 400 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: to hear from the sponsors who keep stuff you missed 401 00:23:53,880 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: in history class going. The contents of don't entirely resemble 402 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: modern cookbooks. Although if you listen to any of our 403 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: previous episodes with food journalists and historian and Burn, you 404 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: probably won't be surprised that the recipes in A Pigeous 405 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: are not terribly specific. When it comes to actual directions, 406 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: you have to know a little bit of what's going on. 407 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: There have been theories that this was due to the 408 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: assumption that people who would be reading it would know 409 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: their way around food prep and they simply didn't need 410 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: all of that extra language. There's also a likelihood that 411 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: this group of recipes was always intended for private use 412 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: and never as a published manual, but more like something 413 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: to be shared among foodies. The brevity of instructions could 414 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: also maybe have been as a means to conserve writing materials. 415 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: In terms of arrangement, though the book might feel really 416 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: familiar to anybody who has worked with a modern cookbook, 417 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 1: the chapters are arranged by ingredient, and this is an 418 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: area where things can once again diverge from what might 419 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: feel familiar because some of those ingredients, like flamingo, are 420 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: not things that are commonly consumed today, at least not 421 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: here in the US. The ingredients are ruled to a 422 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: degree by season, location and a lack of preservation options. Yeah, 423 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: whereas today, I think, particularly in the in the US 424 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: and other parts of the world, you could pick up 425 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: a cookbook that has even things that are maybe not 426 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: in season or or a little bit harder to get, 427 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: and you can probably find them at your local market 428 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: or whatever. But this is a time when obviously like 429 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: they didn't have produce year round of every variety, and 430 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: they did not have so there's some of that places 431 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: into it as well. Um. There are also some ingredients 432 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: in this book that are mentioned that have kind of 433 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: nebulous meanings. So one of them is the word liquidmen. 434 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: This has used almost any time that anything liquid would 435 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: be used, like a stock or a gravy or a 436 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: broth that might come into play, and without understanding a 437 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: recipe's context, it might be difficult to figure out which 438 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: version of liquomen is actually intended to be used. There 439 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: is also a fish sauce that's referenced several times called 440 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: garum that would have at one point referred to a 441 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: sauce created with a very specific fish, but in this 442 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: case it seems to be applied pretty liberally throughout without 443 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: that level of specificity, so it's kind of like any 444 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: fish sauce. And this means that you can't really take 445 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: all of these recipes literally. Again, they have to be 446 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: considered in context. But there are also a lot of 447 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: ingredients and seasonings that remains staples in kitchens today. Human 448 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: is featured throughout as our eggs and leaks and pine nuts, 449 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: savory pepper, and parsley. The first book of the cookbook 450 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: is called The Careful Experienced Cook and it offers up 451 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: recipes for alcoholic libations, as well as an array of 452 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: ways to rescue items that are past their prime maybe 453 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: have begun to spoil a little bit. I thought about 454 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: this and wondered if it would really gross you out, Tracy, 455 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: because it's food safety is important. Yeah, but most of 456 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: the time, of things that make things spoil aren't the 457 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: same things that make you sick, right, So like, if 458 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: there's a little mold on the bread, you can just 459 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: cut that piece of the bread off. Yeah. Reading some 460 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: of these, I was like, oh, don't eat that. But yes, 461 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: we're but again, it's not the same constant supply that 462 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: we would have now, so you would have had to 463 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: rescue things. One of the recipes in this first section 464 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: that I of course gravitated to is for a rose wine, 465 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: and it reads make rose wine in this manner rose 466 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: petals the lower white part removed, sewed into a linen bag, 467 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: and immersed in wine for seven days. Thereupon at a 468 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: sack of new petals, which allowed to draw for another 469 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: seven days. Again, remove the old petals and replace them 470 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: by fresh ones for another week. Then strain the wine 471 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: through the colander before serving at honey sweetening to taste. 472 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: Take care that only the best petals free from do 473 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: be used for soaking. There's also a recipe for rose 474 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: wine made without roses, using citrus leaves as a substitute. 475 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: Sneaky uh. The advice on keeping oysters instructs the reader 476 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: simply to quote, fu migate a vinegar barrel with pitch, 477 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: wash it out with vinegar, and stack the oysters in it. 478 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: See that's a little grosser to me. I don't know why. 479 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: An oyster stack kind of picked me out as well, 480 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: But and the things in oysters that might make one 481 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: ill will definitely just multiply, and they're not tell it 482 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: with anyway. Book two is titled Minces, and it gives 483 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: recipes for making several kinds of sausage, meat, puddings, and 484 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: meat loaves. For example, to make a cuddlefish croquette, quote, 485 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: the meat is separated from bones, skin, chopped fine and 486 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: pounded in the mortar shape. The force meat into neat 487 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: croquettes and cook them in liquidmen. They are displayed nicely 488 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: on a large dish so simple. Just cook it. It's fine, 489 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: just cook it, Just cook it. Book three is the Gardener, 490 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: and there are dozens of recipes to prepare fruits and 491 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: vegetables in this one, including pumpkin, melon, cabbage, cauliflower, beats, turnips, carrots, parsnips, 492 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: and many others. Vegetable dishes promoting good health are featured, 493 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: and in many cases there are numerous preparation descriptions for 494 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: any given ingredient. For example, there is a recipe for 495 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 1: general pumpkin or squash preparation involving cuman, stock and pepper, 496 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: and then something called pumpkin Alexandrine boiled pumpkin, fried pumpkin, 497 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: which I kind of want to try doing. Pumpkin boiled 498 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: and fried, mashed pumpkin and pumpkin stewed with a hen, 499 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: and then garnished with hard skinned peaches and truffles. The 500 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: beat preparation is quite interesting. Quote to make a dish 501 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: of beets that will appeal to your taste. Slice leaks 502 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: and crush coriander and cumin, add raisin, wine, boil all 503 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: down to perfection. Bind it serves separate from the broth 504 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: with oil and vinegar. Why is it a beat recipe 505 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: that is made of leaks. Well, their beats already in there, 506 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: and the leaks are added the follow up recipe for beats, 507 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: which is simply listed as another way, and the English 508 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: translation says, quote, cook the beets with mustard seed and 509 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: serve them well, pickled in a little oil and vinegar. 510 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: It's more like a letter from your nana than a cookbook. 511 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: Just cook them. The fourth book is titled Miscellanya, and 512 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: it features boiled dinners, finely minced dishes, porridge gruel, and 513 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: a section headed as appetizing dishes that means appetizers, not 514 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: just things that are yummy. There are a number of 515 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: pies listed here, but these are generally savory pies. Even 516 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: the pumpkin pie that they list here is really more 517 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: like a roasted pumpkin with pepper on it. Book five 518 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: is legumes, so it's full of peas, lintels and beans. 519 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: And there's a particular recipe in this section that's unusual. 520 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: Spelling even notes in his translation that there's just nothing 521 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: quite comparable to it in any other source. And this 522 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: is a layered dish, which the translation calls peas supreme style, 523 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: sort of like a layered cast role that has layers 524 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: of crushed nuts, cooked peas, sausage, bacon, leaks, and diced 525 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: meats all on hand, with a layer of peas over 526 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: each other ingredient. It's then quote baked thoroughly and a 527 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,719 Speaker 1: sauce is made with the yolks of hard boiled eggs, 528 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: white pepper, honey, white wine, and broth heated in a saucepan. 529 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: I try that, honestly, I would too. It's like p lasagna, yeah, 530 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: and it sounds kind of fascinating to me, and I 531 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: would probably eat it. Book six delves into ways to 532 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: cook foul in eating birds that you might expect like 533 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: chicken and goose and duck, but also crane, ostrich peacock, parrot, 534 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: and the previously mentioned flamingo. And this is where a 535 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: Pickius covers how to prepare quote birds of all kinds 536 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: that have a goatish smell, which is followed by a 537 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: section titled another treatment of odor. So there's definitely a 538 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: good bit of advice about masking items that have basically 539 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 1: gone off or started to started to smell a little gamy. 540 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: I don't know why birds with a ghatish smell just 541 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: sounds like the title of a poem to Me and 542 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: Books seven. The text covers sumptuous dishes. As you might expect, 543 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: these are all very rich. Most of the dishes are 544 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: made with fatty cuts of meat. This recipe for fresh 545 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: ham mentions gingerbread, but this wouldn't have been a sweet 546 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: It would have been more like a biscuity bread made 547 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: with savory spice. Is quote. A fresh ham is cooked 548 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: with two pounds of barley and twenty five figs. When done, 549 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 1: skin glaze the surface with a fire shovel full of 550 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: glowing coals. Spread honey over it, or what's better, put 551 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: it in the oven covered with honey. When it has 552 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: a nice color. Put in a saucepan raisin, wine, pepper, 553 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of rue and pure wine to taste. When 554 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: this is done, pour half of it over the ham, 555 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: and in the other half soaked specially made gingerbread, and 556 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: the remnant of the sauce after most of it is 557 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: thoroughly soaked into the bread, add to the ham. That 558 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: sounds kind of interesting as well. I think a lot 559 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: is depending on exactly what the consistency of that gingerbread is. Right, 560 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: If it's biscuity and you soak it in a sauce 561 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: that actually sounds pretty numby. It's like biscuits and wine 562 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: gravy um. Book seven also offers up some sweeter fay 563 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: so that's mostly very simple things like bread that has 564 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: been soaked in milk and then fried and then covered 565 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: with honey, or dates stuffed with nuts and then drizzled 566 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: with honey. The eighth book is titled Quadrupeds and it 567 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: encompasses everything from wild boar to dormouse game. Animals like venison, 568 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: wild goat, and gazelle are mentioned in the text, along 569 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: with preparations and appropriate sauces can Book nine cover seafood. 570 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: Uh and I really loved this one. Of course, it's 571 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: on the Mediterranean, so seafood is prominent, and the broiled 572 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: lobster recipe in this case evidence is how they are 573 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: just some food preparations that have persisted through time. This 574 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: one reads make thus, if broiled, they should appear in 575 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: their shell, which is opened by splitting the live lobster 576 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: into season with pepper sauce and coriander sauce moistened with oil, 577 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: and broil them on the grill. When they are dry, 578 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: keep on basting them more and more with oil or 579 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: butter until they are properly broiled. Book ten has labeled 580 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: the fishermen, and it's largely a section on sauces. Believe 581 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: that this was probably in addition to the texts, since 582 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: there are already plenty of seafood content and the books 583 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: and the chapters that come before it. So having read 584 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: all this, it's easy to see why scholars and historians 585 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,479 Speaker 1: have come to view the study of food and food 586 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: preparation as such an important part of human history. And 587 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: any literal hundreds of recipes collected in this cookbook, it 588 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: becomes pretty easy to consider both the differences and the 589 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: similarities of our own tables and those of previous civilizations. 590 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: Despite the unusual nature of some of the ingredients, a 591 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: lot of the advice and direction in the epicqueous text 592 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: is pretty similar to the way things are done today, 593 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: all the way down to the tools and the words 594 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: of vailing, which seemed like a good place to wrap 595 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: this one up quote our own age is but the 596 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: grandchild of antiquity. The words we utter in their roots 597 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: are those of our grandfathers, and so do many dishes 598 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: we eat today. We're zimbol, those once enjoyed by a 599 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: Picius and his friends. Done, Done, Done. I have so 600 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: many thoughts for our Friday episode. Yeah, we should probably 601 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: also mentioned that since this episode is sponsored by Pinterest, 602 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: we have pinned some things in our Pinterest that are 603 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,959 Speaker 1: related to this book and the recipes in it. Yes, 604 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: it is fascinating and inspiring to look at all of 605 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: these old dressed peace and wonder what one might do 606 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: with them today. And we'll talk a little bit about 607 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: that in in our Friday episode, but for now, I 608 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: have cooking related email about a different episode. This is 609 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: our related to our recipe on Lydia Mariah Child, and 610 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: it's from our listener Betsy, who writes Deer, Holly and Tracy, 611 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: longtime listener, first time email er. I wanted to thank 612 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: you for your most recent episode on one of my 613 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: favorite people, Lydia Mariah Child. Mariah has played an outsized 614 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: role in my life and education, but there was a 615 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: huge amount I didn't know about her until I listened 616 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: to your episode. Throughout high school, I interned at Old 617 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: Sturbridge Village, a living history museum depicting life in the 618 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: late eighteen thirties New England, so I learned to cook 619 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: in large part over an open hearth and using the 620 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: recipes from her cookbook The Frugal Housewife. I no longer 621 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: work at that particular museum, but I use the skills 622 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: I learned their daily for anyone curious. Her recipes, called receipts, 623 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: can easily be adapted to a modern oven or stove. 624 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: It's pretty easy to approximate average cooking times and temperatures 625 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: for different kinds of food. The harder part is interpreting 626 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: vocabulary that has changed. Indian meal is corn meal, and 627 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: a gill is half a cup. I particularly like her 628 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: curried foul ideal for old tough birds, but any grocery 629 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: store chicken will do. Indian putting, caraway cakes and gingerbread 630 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: a recipe most people enjoyed learning about, though in my 631 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: experience it always comes out soggy. Is her recipe for cupcake. 632 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: So nowadays cupcake is baked in a cup, but in 633 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: Mrs Child's day, cupcake was measured in cups. One cup butter, 634 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: two cups sugar, three cups flour, and four eggs. I 635 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: have read The Frugal Housewife covered to cover numerous times, 636 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: and I knew she had also written fiction and been 637 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: an abolitionist, but I didn't know the extent of her activism, 638 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: scholarly education, or editorial career. So thank you so much 639 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: for giving me the opportunity to learn about her many accomplishments. 640 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: And then she asked us for some sources, which I 641 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: will send her, and then writes, also one of you 642 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: mentioned something about how you were skeptical about there being 643 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: deep snow in November in New England. That was me 644 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: that I'm not able to verify this, but the explanation 645 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: I have been given in the past is that we 646 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: were still in the Little Ice Age, and also the 647 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: date of Thanksgiving hadn't been standardized yet. It was just 648 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: when the governor wanted it to be, so sometimes it 649 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: was in December. Once again, thanks to the episode and 650 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: for your podcast in general, I listen to nearly every 651 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: episode with interest, and I've got several friends and also 652 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: my mother, whom I listened to this episode with into 653 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: the show. Your friend and listener, Betsy, Thank you so much, Betsy. 654 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: That's um uh perfectly makes a little bookend for this 655 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 1: episode about cooking to talk about a much more recent thing, 656 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,879 Speaker 1: but still something we have to interpret if we want 657 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: to make those recipes today. Yeah, and that that explanation 658 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: of snow on Thanksgiving makes total sense to me and 659 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 1: was just not stuff that was at the top of 660 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: my mind when I speculated on it. No me either. Yeah. 661 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: So I hope everyone is inspired to eat something delicious 662 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: by all of this. Yeah, if you would like to, 663 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: you can write us an email and tell us what 664 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: you ate us a consequence, that's a history podcast at 665 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. You can also find us on 666 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: social media as Missed in History And if you would 667 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: like to subscribe to the show, we would like you 668 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: to do that, you can do that on the I 669 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: heart Radio app or wherever it is you listen to podcasts. 670 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of 671 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,760 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 672 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 673 00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.