WEBVTT - #089 Jason Flom with Darnell Phillips 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:06.600 When I interviewed Darnell Phillips in the spring of twenty nineteen, 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.440 it was actually a heard interview for me to do 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:16.120 this gentle giant of a man who had never been 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:20.040 in trouble. I was studying to be a minister, was 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:24.919 just starting his life as a teenage young man. Was 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:26.840 wrong for the convicted since to one hundred and seven 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:33.440 years in prison, he was released conditional release even after 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:38.440 he proved his innocence with DNA, still restricted in his movements, 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.200 and yet he has not let any of this hold 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:46.720 him back. Just this year he started his dream business, 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:51.120 a mobile auto detailing business called Redemption Auto Detailing LLC. 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.800 Redemption Auto Detailing. Yet he's a minister. It's incredible. When 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:56.600 I heard that name, I almost fell on the floor. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:02.800 Darnell is a pro at taking people's beat up looking 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.200 cars and making them look like brand new. Therefore Redemption 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.720 Auto Detailing, and he has a sort of a joy 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.880 about the way he goes about life, but also just 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.360 the way that he approaches his job. And as a result, 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.440 the business is growing and flourishing. It's in Virginia. Look 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.800 him up. His Instagram is at darn phill nineteen that's 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:30.080 dar and Phil the number nineteen. Follow Darnell and you 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.840 will be inspired because he is hitting it out of 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.759 the park. He got engaged to a wonderful woman. What 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.039 can you say about a guy who served almost three 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.720 decades in prison of one hundred and something year sentence 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.600 for a crime everybody knew he didn't commit. That victim 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.400 came forward, everybody came forward, and yet spent not a 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.440 minute of time feeling sorry for himself and is living 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.240 his best life. Darnell, if you're listening, you have all 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.640 my respect and for all you wrongful conviction listeners, I'm 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:03.720 super excited for you to hear this episode. 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.120 This Paul is from a correction facility. 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:18.960 And it's subject to monitoring and recording. 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:32.519 Fact eleven embarism, Okay, and it hasn't been easy. 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.840 One hundred years, that's man. I'm a kid. I didn't 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.320 do anything, you know, and uh you know that was ah, 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:44.040 that was real painful, man. No, because my life was 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.600 discarded as if you know, like I was a piece 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.360 of trash or something, you know. One hundred years and 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.679 I had dreams and I wanted to do things. I 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.079 wasn't committing crimes, you know, I was a very good 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:55.880 young man. 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.800 That is what happened in so many cases. The cops 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.400 have a hunch because are so smart at the scene, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.640 they have a hunch, and once they act on that hunch, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.079 they sort of developed tunnel vision and they take off 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.720 marching in the wrong direction. And that happens in so 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.400 many of these wrongful convictions. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.519 They open it to sell door and I walk down 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.680 stif and I actually walked down stairs to be outside. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.040 It felt very strange to be, like I said, to 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.720 be walking without no shackles on my feet. I thought 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.080 it was a dream. But then again, it wasn't a dream. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:38.360 This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.440 Jason Flamm that's me. I'm your host, and today we 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.520 have Darnelle Phillips, wrongfully in prison for twenty eight years 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.680 and only released back on September twenty fifth. Welcome, Glad 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:50.080 you're here. 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:50.440 Thank you. 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:52.960 I always say I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.000 you're here. And with him, Lisa SPE's is here and 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.400 she runs Virginians for Judicial Reform. And Lisa and I 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.040 have been working closely together for a while now on 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.320 some Virginia cases. So I'm glad you're here as well. 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:06.240 Thanks for having me. 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:12.520 So, Darnell, your case is troubling in so many ways. Yes, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.440 the fact that you were ever prosecuted for this case 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:17.880 doesn't make any sense. 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:18.680 And let's go back. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.159 I mean, this is a really brutal case. It's a 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.920 violent rape of a ten year old girl, white girl, 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:30.279 and Darnell is larger than life blackmail, and we know 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.760 the cross racial identifications are incredibly unreliable. But let's not 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.359 even go there yet. How did this ever come to 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.520 pass in the first place? You didn't match the description. 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.960 There's so much misconduct and so many mistakes both I 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:48.240 think deliberate and accidental in your case. But let's go 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.599 back to where did this happen? How did this happen? 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.479 How did you first get wrapped up in it at all? 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.640 In Virginia Beach in August nineteen ninety, I was in 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.919 the process of trying to to do something like you 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.000 do with music. You know, I was a young guy. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:04.520 You know, you want to make money, you want to 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.839 try to, you know, go after your dreams. It just 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:08.760 so happened to meet a young man from New York 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.680 at the gym where he used to box at and 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.120 so I saw that he was interested in music. When 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.159 I said, well, you know what, I have another friend 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.520 who goes to Norfolk State, the DJ. We can get together, 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:21.960 maybe we can get this demo. We wanted to try 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.160 to do it for this rap group called Public Enemy, 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.920 and you know, in the early nineties. And so one 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.080 of the days that I was over Michael's house, it 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.920 was raining outside. When the rain began to settle down, 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.960 we went back outside. We were laughing, just doing things, 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.919 smoking a cigar, just talking futuristic things. You know. We 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.520 had man, I would love to, you know, be a 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:43.800 music producer, and you know he's talking about y'all I 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.680 love to rap. And so when we got I'm not 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:48.359 even ten steps outside of his house, there was a 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.840 guy walking by and he asked could I have a light? 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:53.880 Gave him a light and everything. So we went walked 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.600 around the corner. That just so happened. Police they rolled up. 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.120 And when they rolled up, we were like, well, what's 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.680 going on, officer? He said, well, young girl had just 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:03.800 been raped. We're like, whoa, We said, somebody just walked 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.280 by us. We told him. They went that way back 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.719 towards a place called corporate apartments. It was a military 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.400 housing unit, and so he said, well, will you be 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.080 around because in case we need to talk to you. 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.119 He said, what, sure, but we didn't say anything. About 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.240 fifteen minutes later, the auser came back through. He spoke 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.680 with us. I was eighteen, Michael was sixteen. Spoke with 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.240 Michael about, you know, where had he been and but 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.680 Michael really didn't fit the description. So I was like, well, 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:29.240 he's been with me, so there's no way in the 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:30.839 world he could have been doing a type of crime. 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.279 I had an all brown and black. They were looking 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.839 for a man that had great shorts on white and 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.960 green with the number forty two on the jersey. So 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.520 you know, obviously I didn't fit the description. I wasn't 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.840 the person's hired or anything. But nevertheless, they said, well 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.480 can you try this hat on? But I was like, well, 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.320 I didn't wants to try a hat on or whatever. Right, 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:50.560 I had a hat I guess similar to the person 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.440 who did the crime. It's like a Chicago Bulls hat. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:55.920 So Michael put the hat on. They snapped a picture. 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.159 Then they asked me willingly. I said, yeah, sure, no problem. 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.320 I put the hat on him. They snapped the picture 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.920 the officer. He drove me home that night. That Friday, 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.680 I was arrested. When I was arrested, they didn't tell 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.200 me what I was arrested for. And it took some hours. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.720 Got down to the police station and spoke to a 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.880 few detectives, you know, for like four hours probably. Then 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.320 there was another detective came in, you know, unlike the 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.400 other ones. And I grew up around police officers, you know, 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.480 they were kind to us. Then they come through the neighborhood. 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.440 We would speak with him. And when I spoke to 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:32.720 the detective, he automatically started just belittling me. He moved 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.760 your you know, you did the crime. I'm like, well, 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.160 what are you trying to damage my life? Man? You know, 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.280 like you're trying to hurt me. What are you doing? 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.920 And so he just kept getting in my face and 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.720 arguing at me and trying to get me to confess. 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:47.680 He was trying to leave me on questions. I was 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:49.840 smart enough, even though I was eighteen years old, I 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:51.360 was smart enough to know that he was trying to 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.280 pull me into a trap. I said, look, man, I said, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.000 I don't know what your situation is, but look, you 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.680 got the wrong, man. I said, I have alibis and everything. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.160 Why while you doing this? He just said, well, look 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.040 you told me. I said, I didn't tell you anything. 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:06.040 I said, well, I'm not gonna sign anything. I said, 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:07.840 you know, I didn't know. I said, I'm not signing anything. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.040 He's like, well, he said, that's make any difference. He said, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.480 who you think they're gonna believe me over you? He said, 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:13.960 I'll take that young girl. He said, when I put 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.320 in pig tails, and they'll look at you like an animal. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:18.760 I said, why are you doing so me? I put 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:20.640 my head down because I said, I just want to 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.400 go home, maybe my family, you know. And he told me, 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.200 he said, well You're never going home. And so that 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.200 right there he broke my heart. But nevertheless I still 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.400 didn't't giving him what he wanted. He wanted me to 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.199 just outright tell him I did it. I said, man, 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.760 I just can't do that. Man. And after that was 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.079 in jail that thirty Saturday morning. That Monday, I went 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.560 to court. Next you know, I'm hearing I confessed and 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:45.520 I had brutally raped this girl. And so I'm I'm 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.920 caught up like what because I had an alibi witness 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:50.800 I had a preacher's wife. She was in the house, 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.840 her son, guy named Michael Northfleet, and a host of 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.440 other guys who saw me that day that knew they 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.640 I all had on all brown and black. I hadn't 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.440 been out, and so I was a bit fuddled because 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:04.640 the only move I made that they was to get 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.520 to his house stay in his house. And when we 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.000 saw the police later on, that was it. 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.040 Well, Lisa, there were all these signs. I mean, they 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.560 weren't just ignored. They were I mean, his rights were 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.560 trampled on. We know that because I mean when you 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.480 get an officer actually lying about a confession, we know 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.240 about false confessions. This wasn't even that, this was a 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.000 non confession that they then just made up a story. 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:28.080 He told you he was going to do it, and 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.679 he did do it right, Which is interesting too because 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.719 he actually told you upfront, here's what I'm going to 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.640 do to you. What would anybody feel in that situation 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.120 other than why are you doing this to me? I'm 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.920 not that guy. Like it's such a horrifying scenario, and 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.240 especially like he said, as you did, as I did, 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.480 I'm sure as Lisa did. We all grow up respecting 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.000 authority figures expecting the uniform. We know that they're there 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.840 to serve and protect and that they're the people you 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:54.640 call if you're in trouble. Now all of a sudden, 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:56.320 they are the people are trying to put you in trouble. 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.000 So Lisa helped me out here because this is a 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:00.160 bad one. 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:01.800 Well, I don't know how much I can help you 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:03.520 out with it. I mean, it reminds me of so 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.880 many other cases that we've heard about, the Central Park 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.640 five and Jeff Daskovic and Andy Kreebeck, And I think 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:10.920 the difference is that Darnell had the state of mind 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.120 at the time that he just was not going to 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.880 give a false confession, and clearly that officer knew that 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:17.679 and he didn't care, and he was going to say 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.920 that he did it anyway. And that's, you know, the 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.440 story that they continue to say that Darnell confessed, and 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.000 that's what they've stuck to for twenty eight years. So 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.200 in the recent court decision, it still continues to state that, 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.200 you know, Darnell confessed, which we just know is patently false. 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.520 Yeah, we're going to get to that later because there's 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.440 a whole long tail on this story, right you know, 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.600 he's still being persecuted by the state, even after having 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.480 been proven innocent, and even after the victim coming forward 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.120 repeatedly and really begging the authorities to reverse this and 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.319 realizing that she had made a mistake. And we can 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.720 get into that too, and how she was really coerced 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:56.600 into implicating you. Obviously, when someone endures a traumatic experience, 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.840 which hers can't be more traumatic than what this poor 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.559 girl went through, they're going to be prone to misidentifying 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.160 someone or making mistakes, even if everybody does their job 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.200 the way they're supposed to. That's not what happened here. 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.640 But what they're probably not going to make a mistake 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:14.559 on is identifying the color of the clothes, right, facial characteristics, height, Right, 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.480 she's not sitting there with you know, a grass to 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.240 be able to show how tall you are, how much 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.280 you weigh. They could be off by twenty thirty fifty 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.640 pounds even who knows. But they're not going to make 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:25.560 a mistake on the color of the clothes, not that 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.800 big of a mistake. It's not like it was gray 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.559 or you know, light black, or you know what I mean, 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.120 Like you were wearing completely different clothes, brown. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.520 And black Paisley black pants, brown and black Paisley shirt. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.720 Chicago Bulls had person they were looking at had a 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.560 white and green jersey with the numbers forty two. She 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.760 described that person is being a little older, out of shape. 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.560 At the time, I used to run every morning, so 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.520 I was like one hundred and seventy pounds. I should 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.120 train with my cousin, you know, go boxing and everything. 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.840 So you know, I was slim and trim, you know. 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.679 And the sad part about it was that that brown 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.199 and black garment. They paraded it around in court as 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.120 if that was the white and green shirt, as if 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.000 they implicated me with guilt. And I'm like, are they 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.560 seeing this? The jury, I'm like, are you seeing this? 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:12.439 This is a brown and black shirt, then someone with 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:13.080 white and green. 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:14.920 This is not like that thing that went around on 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:16.960 the internet a while ago where it was a dress 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:18.760 gold or is it blue? Right, and there was this 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.160 whole This is not that. This is cut and dry. 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.280 Anybody with eyes can tell the difference between those colors. 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.240 It's not tricky. But speaking of tricky, I mean, the 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.000 only word I can think of for it is disgusting 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.679 on a number of levels, which is what they did 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:36.280 to influence this young girl to implicate you, right, they 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.280 were willing to go to extreme lengths to let's just 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.600 call it, get this case off their desk, Lisa, Can 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.559 you talk about some of the things that they did 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.440 to influence this young girl who was so impressionable at 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.400 this point and so damaged and so upset. 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.960 So the victim in this case was a ten year 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.000 old female who had been brutally sexually assaulted. She could 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.560 not identify anyone when they came to speak with her, 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.760 and they influenced her by telling her that Darnell had 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.560 in fact confessed, but that they couldn't use the confession 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.240 against him. They told her that her blood was found 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.640 on Darnell's underwear. They told her that Darnell had committed 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.079 similar crimes and been in trouble in the past, all 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.960 of which were absolutely false, and they told her this 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.920 to influence her to give an identification of Darnell to 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.120 maintain the charge and also to get a conviction in 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.719 a trial. Yeah, I mean disgusting. I don't even think 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.800 begins to cover doing that to someone, because not only 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.679 are you doing this to Darnell, who they knew was innocent, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.760 it's not a mistake. It's not an innocent mistake. In 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.440 this case, they knew he was innocent. And it's not 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.560 just leaving a predator on the street who's most likely 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.240 going to commit another crime like this, but you're also 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.920 committing a fraud on a ten year old victim who 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.240 was sexually assaulted and her family who all had to 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.720 go through that, and then twenty eight years later she 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.959 finds out that it's all been a lie. And think 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.240 about what kind of wrapping your mind around that would 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.720 do to you after going through that kind of an 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.160 experience as a child, and now having a wrap your 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.480 mind around that you know you were part of this 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.440 fraud as well, I mean unknowingly didn't do anything wrong 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.840 on her own. She was told this, and of course 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.960 we all believe the police. When you're ten and you 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.520 go through something like that, all of us would believe that. 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.080 And when it comes to the girl, I was getting 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:15.840 the chills while you were talking, because I was thinking, 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.920 who's to say that this guy who's still out on 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.200 the streets wasn't going to go back and rape her again? 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:21.800 Right? 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.960 She was in danger, and look, maybe they couldn't have 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.760 caught him anyway. Maybe he had disappeared into thin air 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.000 or gone to Canada or who knows right, but if 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.760 he was around, there was a way to find him. 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.480 I mean, this is Virginia Beach too, This is not 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.880 a tiny little town. They have resources, right, They have 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.440 trained professionals that could have gone and done the hard 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:43.680 work to go find this guy. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.000 Well, the tourism industry in Virginia Beach is very strong, 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.080 as well as the military community, and I think for 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:50.760 both of those things, you know, you would want to 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.800 find the actual perpetrator rather than just lock somebody up and, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:56.840 like you said, get the file off their. 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.600 Desk and give the public the false impression that everything's 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.560 safe now and you can go out and do your thing, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.160 when in fact they should have been telling people to 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.600 keep a careful eye on their kids while we're continuing 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.720 this investigation. Don't let them go anywhere by themselves. I'm 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.720 sure kids were just right back to riding their bikes 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:13.600 and doing whatever they did in Virginia Beach back then, 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.600 twenty eight years ago. Tarnell, let's talk about the trial. 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.680 There you are with alibi witnesses, credible alibi witnesses. As 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.080 you said, the preacher's daughter, and this and that, and 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.800 like your friends, and you had an almost air tight case. 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.600 How long were you in jail awaiting trial. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.520 I stayed in jail for like five months and I 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:37.040 made bond. Here's how far the injustice goes, Jason. When 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.640 I was in jail, my lawyer told me, I said, Darnelle, look, 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.520 you don't have a record, and there are certain things 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:44.640 in this case that he said, don't line up, he said, 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:46.680 but they have to give you a record. I said, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:48.680 give me a record like what he said, They're going 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:50.040 to open a book up on you. They can give 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.960 you a robbery charge. I said, a robbery charge. So 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.760 they gave me. It was two cases. But because this 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.120 rate charge was so heavy, they gave me a robbery 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.200 charge when I had witnesses. I was at work. I 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.320 couldn't have been there, right, I didn't drive at the time, Jason. 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.720 So so they invented a prior robbery just. 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.000 So they could just to give me a criminal record. 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.960 So they had an open robbery case and they just decided. 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:15.760 He told me they were gonna dump it, and they 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.000 gave a description of the man at the time. You know, 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.360 when I saw the guy on the photos I saw, 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.560 it was like he was like a larger, light skinned guy, 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.280 had bald head at the time, and my ID picture 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.160 I had full headed hair, you know this summertime. I 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:29.960 was you know, dark brown. 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:31.880 So they had like a surveillance photo of the guy 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:32.360 or somewhere. 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.760 But the guy had an ear ring in his ear. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.200 Now here's the thing about it. I had an ear 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.840 ring in my ear when I was fourteen. It became 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.560 infected because my brother friend did it. But by the 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.040 time trial came along four years later, the victim had 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.400 said the guy had an earring, but a plastic surgeon 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.480 came and told him that it's no way in the 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.440 world his ear could have been opened at that time. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.440 He says, this is a fully heeled ear. He said, 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.920 it's no way in the world possible. And so I 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.800 didn't look like the guy. I had alibi witnesses, so 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.159 they give me another false charge. But the other case, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.359 I was facing three life sentences in thirty years, So 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.159 really I wasn't thinking about that too much, right, and 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.320 so they were just pretty much dumping everything on me. 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.639 So when I got out on bond Man, I was 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.639 a very fearful person because my outlook on the police office. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:20.840 They weren't the same anymore. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:22.560 It's a good thing they caught the guy that killed 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.159 Ay Blinket. They might have tried to pin that on 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.359 you too, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, you know, 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.240 we got an open case here. They was this guy. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.720 We were in the theater back in eighteen sixty whatever, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:32.760 and they'd be like, no, yeah, this guy, this is 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:34.280 the guy right here. You know what I mean. We 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.280 can laugh about it now, Well you're laughing about it, 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:41.359 but like it's actually it's preposterous. So back to the trial. 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.800 So I got out on bond. No remember the fifth 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.000 nineteen ninety. I went to trial in June nineteen ninety. 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.919 I saw my first day, my lawyer told me to 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:51.800 go to the back of the courtroom. I was like, well, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:52.680 why do you tell me to go to the back 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.520 of the courtroom. For they saw the prosecutor walking the 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.040 victim down the aisle and they stopped on my aisle. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.080 And she didn't point me out, but what she did 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.520 she stopped by my eye and I'm like, what in 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.919 the world is going on? But later on we found 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.480 out that they coached her. She said that they coached her, 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.080 that Look, he's going to be sitting at that table. 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.560 This is what he got on. Don't change your story. 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.680 So she was coached, not only by police officer, was 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.679 coached by prosecutors. Came time for trial to you know, 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.960 the victim pointed me out from that. I found that 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.160 out maybe like a year ago, you know what I mean. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.760 So keep mind twenty seven years past. I'm finding this out. 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.320 I'm like, that's what's going on. Because I was often puzzled, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.959 why didn't they just stop her where the row I 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.040 was at? And so I said, that's why the prosecutors 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:40.359 did that. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.840 Were there any rumors around because you were out for 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.399 this period of time before the trial, were there rumors 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.679 around the neighborhood about somebody else that might have done it? 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.400 Yeah, the name was mentioned by one of the victim's 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.280