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Speaker 1: When I interviewed Darnell Phillips in the spring of twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: it was actually a heard interview for me to do

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Speaker 1: this gentle giant of a man who had never been

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Speaker 1: in trouble. I was studying to be a minister, was

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Speaker 1: just starting his life as a teenage young man. Was

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Speaker 1: wrong for the convicted since to one hundred and seven

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Speaker 1: years in prison, he was released conditional release even after

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Speaker 1: he proved his innocence with DNA, still restricted in his movements,

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Speaker 1: and yet he has not let any of this hold

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Speaker 1: him back. Just this year he started his dream business,

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Speaker 1: a mobile auto detailing business called Redemption Auto Detailing LLC.

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Speaker 1: Redemption Auto Detailing. Yet he's a minister. It's incredible. When

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Speaker 1: I heard that name, I almost fell on the floor.

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Speaker 1: Darnell is a pro at taking people's beat up looking

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Speaker 1: cars and making them look like brand new. Therefore Redemption

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Speaker 1: Auto Detailing, and he has a sort of a joy

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Speaker 1: about the way he goes about life, but also just

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Speaker 1: the way that he approaches his job. And as a result,

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Speaker 1: the business is growing and flourishing. It's in Virginia. Look

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Speaker 1: him up. His Instagram is at darn phill nineteen that's

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Speaker 1: dar and Phil the number nineteen. Follow Darnell and you

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Speaker 1: will be inspired because he is hitting it out of

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Speaker 1: the park. He got engaged to a wonderful woman. What

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Speaker 1: can you say about a guy who served almost three

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Speaker 1: decades in prison of one hundred and something year sentence

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Speaker 1: for a crime everybody knew he didn't commit. That victim

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Speaker 1: came forward, everybody came forward, and yet spent not a

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Speaker 1: minute of time feeling sorry for himself and is living

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Speaker 1: his best life. Darnell, if you're listening, you have all

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Speaker 1: my respect and for all you wrongful conviction listeners, I'm

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Speaker 1: super excited for you to hear this episode.

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Speaker 2: This Paul is from a correction facility.

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Speaker 3: And it's subject to monitoring and recording.

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Speaker 4: Fact eleven embarism, Okay, and it hasn't been easy.

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Speaker 5: One hundred years, that's man. I'm a kid. I didn't

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Speaker 5: do anything, you know, and uh you know that was ah,

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Speaker 5: that was real painful, man. No, because my life was

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Speaker 5: discarded as if you know, like I was a piece

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Speaker 5: of trash or something, you know. One hundred years and

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Speaker 5: I had dreams and I wanted to do things. I

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Speaker 5: wasn't committing crimes, you know, I was a very good

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Speaker 5: young man.

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Speaker 6: That is what happened in so many cases. The cops

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Speaker 6: have a hunch because are so smart at the scene,

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Speaker 6: they have a hunch, and once they act on that hunch,

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Speaker 6: they sort of developed tunnel vision and they take off

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Speaker 6: marching in the wrong direction. And that happens in so

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Speaker 6: many of these wrongful convictions.

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Speaker 2: They open it to sell door and I walk down

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Speaker 2: stif and I actually walked down stairs to be outside.

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Speaker 2: It felt very strange to be, like I said, to

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Speaker 2: be walking without no shackles on my feet. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was a dream. But then again, it wasn't a dream.

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Speaker 1: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with

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Speaker 1: Jason Flamm that's me. I'm your host, and today we

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Speaker 1: have Darnelle Phillips, wrongfully in prison for twenty eight years

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Speaker 1: and only released back on September twenty fifth. Welcome, Glad

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Speaker 1: you're here.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I always say I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy

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Speaker 1: you're here. And with him, Lisa SPE's is here and

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Speaker 1: she runs Virginians for Judicial Reform. And Lisa and I

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Speaker 1: have been working closely together for a while now on

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Speaker 1: some Virginia cases. So I'm glad you're here as well.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: So, Darnell, your case is troubling in so many ways. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the fact that you were ever prosecuted for this case

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Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 5: And let's go back.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a really brutal case. It's a

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Speaker 1: violent rape of a ten year old girl, white girl,

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Speaker 1: and Darnell is larger than life blackmail, and we know

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Speaker 1: the cross racial identifications are incredibly unreliable. But let's not

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Speaker 1: even go there yet. How did this ever come to

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Speaker 1: pass in the first place? You didn't match the description.

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Speaker 1: There's so much misconduct and so many mistakes both I

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Speaker 1: think deliberate and accidental in your case. But let's go

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Speaker 1: back to where did this happen? How did this happen?

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Speaker 1: How did you first get wrapped up in it at all?

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Speaker 5: In Virginia Beach in August nineteen ninety, I was in

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Speaker 5: the process of trying to to do something like you

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Speaker 5: do with music. You know, I was a young guy.

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Speaker 5: You know, you want to make money, you want to

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Speaker 5: try to, you know, go after your dreams. It just

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Speaker 5: so happened to meet a young man from New York

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Speaker 5: at the gym where he used to box at and

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Speaker 5: so I saw that he was interested in music. When

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Speaker 5: I said, well, you know what, I have another friend

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Speaker 5: who goes to Norfolk State, the DJ. We can get together,

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Speaker 5: maybe we can get this demo. We wanted to try

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Speaker 5: to do it for this rap group called Public Enemy,

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Speaker 5: and you know, in the early nineties. And so one

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Speaker 5: of the days that I was over Michael's house, it

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Speaker 5: was raining outside. When the rain began to settle down,

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Speaker 5: we went back outside. We were laughing, just doing things,

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Speaker 5: smoking a cigar, just talking futuristic things. You know. We

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Speaker 5: had man, I would love to, you know, be a

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Speaker 5: music producer, and you know he's talking about y'all I

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Speaker 5: love to rap. And so when we got I'm not

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Speaker 5: even ten steps outside of his house, there was a

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Speaker 5: guy walking by and he asked could I have a light?

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Speaker 5: Gave him a light and everything. So we went walked

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Speaker 5: around the corner. That just so happened. Police they rolled up.

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Speaker 5: And when they rolled up, we were like, well, what's

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Speaker 5: going on, officer? He said, well, young girl had just

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Speaker 5: been raped. We're like, whoa, We said, somebody just walked

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Speaker 5: by us. We told him. They went that way back

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Speaker 5: towards a place called corporate apartments. It was a military

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Speaker 5: housing unit, and so he said, well, will you be

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Speaker 5: around because in case we need to talk to you.

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Speaker 5: He said, what, sure, but we didn't say anything. About

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Speaker 5: fifteen minutes later, the auser came back through. He spoke

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Speaker 5: with us. I was eighteen, Michael was sixteen. Spoke with

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Speaker 5: Michael about, you know, where had he been and but

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Speaker 5: Michael really didn't fit the description. So I was like, well,

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Speaker 5: he's been with me, so there's no way in the

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Speaker 5: world he could have been doing a type of crime.

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Speaker 5: I had an all brown and black. They were looking

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Speaker 5: for a man that had great shorts on white and

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Speaker 5: green with the number forty two on the jersey. So

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Speaker 5: you know, obviously I didn't fit the description. I wasn't

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Speaker 5: the person's hired or anything. But nevertheless, they said, well

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Speaker 5: can you try this hat on? But I was like, well,

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Speaker 5: I didn't wants to try a hat on or whatever. Right,

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Speaker 5: I had a hat I guess similar to the person

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Speaker 5: who did the crime. It's like a Chicago Bulls hat.

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Speaker 5: So Michael put the hat on. They snapped a picture.

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Speaker 5: Then they asked me willingly. I said, yeah, sure, no problem.

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Speaker 5: I put the hat on him. They snapped the picture

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Speaker 5: the officer. He drove me home that night. That Friday,

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Speaker 5: I was arrested. When I was arrested, they didn't tell

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Speaker 5: me what I was arrested for. And it took some hours.

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Speaker 5: Got down to the police station and spoke to a

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Speaker 5: few detectives, you know, for like four hours probably. Then

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Speaker 5: there was another detective came in, you know, unlike the

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Speaker 5: other ones. And I grew up around police officers, you know,

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Speaker 5: they were kind to us. Then they come through the neighborhood.

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Speaker 5: We would speak with him. And when I spoke to

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Speaker 5: the detective, he automatically started just belittling me. He moved

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Speaker 5: your you know, you did the crime. I'm like, well,

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Speaker 5: what are you trying to damage my life? Man? You know,

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Speaker 5: like you're trying to hurt me. What are you doing?

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Speaker 5: And so he just kept getting in my face and

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Speaker 5: arguing at me and trying to get me to confess.

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Speaker 5: He was trying to leave me on questions. I was

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Speaker 5: smart enough, even though I was eighteen years old, I

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Speaker 5: was smart enough to know that he was trying to

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Speaker 5: pull me into a trap. I said, look, man, I said,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what your situation is, but look, you

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Speaker 5: got the wrong, man. I said, I have alibis and everything.

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Speaker 5: Why while you doing this? He just said, well, look

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Speaker 5: you told me. I said, I didn't tell you anything.

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Speaker 5: I said, well, I'm not gonna sign anything. I said,

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Speaker 5: you know, I didn't know. I said, I'm not signing anything.

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Speaker 5: He's like, well, he said, that's make any difference. He said,

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Speaker 5: who you think they're gonna believe me over you? He said,

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Speaker 5: I'll take that young girl. He said, when I put

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Speaker 5: in pig tails, and they'll look at you like an animal.

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Speaker 5: I said, why are you doing so me? I put

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Speaker 5: my head down because I said, I just want to

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Speaker 5: go home, maybe my family, you know. And he told me,

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Speaker 5: he said, well You're never going home. And so that

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Speaker 5: right there he broke my heart. But nevertheless I still

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Speaker 5: didn't't giving him what he wanted. He wanted me to

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Speaker 5: just outright tell him I did it. I said, man,

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Speaker 5: I just can't do that. Man. And after that was

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Speaker 5: in jail that thirty Saturday morning. That Monday, I went

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Speaker 5: to court. Next you know, I'm hearing I confessed and

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Speaker 5: I had brutally raped this girl. And so I'm I'm

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Speaker 5: caught up like what because I had an alibi witness

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Speaker 5: I had a preacher's wife. She was in the house,

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Speaker 5: her son, guy named Michael Northfleet, and a host of

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Speaker 5: other guys who saw me that day that knew they

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Speaker 5: I all had on all brown and black. I hadn't

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Speaker 5: been out, and so I was a bit fuddled because

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Speaker 5: the only move I made that they was to get

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Speaker 5: to his house stay in his house. And when we

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Speaker 5: saw the police later on, that was it.

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Speaker 1: Well, Lisa, there were all these signs. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: weren't just ignored. They were I mean, his rights were

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Speaker 1: trampled on. We know that because I mean when you

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Speaker 1: get an officer actually lying about a confession, we know

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Speaker 1: about false confessions. This wasn't even that, this was a

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Speaker 1: non confession that they then just made up a story.

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Speaker 1: He told you he was going to do it, and

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Speaker 1: he did do it right, Which is interesting too because

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Speaker 1: he actually told you upfront, here's what I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do to you. What would anybody feel in that situation

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Speaker 1: other than why are you doing this to me? I'm

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Speaker 1: not that guy. Like it's such a horrifying scenario, and

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Speaker 1: especially like he said, as you did, as I did,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure as Lisa did. We all grow up respecting

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Speaker 1: authority figures expecting the uniform. We know that they're there

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Speaker 1: to serve and protect and that they're the people you

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Speaker 1: call if you're in trouble. Now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: they are the people are trying to put you in trouble.

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Speaker 1: So Lisa helped me out here because this is a

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Speaker 1: bad one.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know how much I can help you

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Speaker 3: out with it. I mean, it reminds me of so

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Speaker 3: many other cases that we've heard about, the Central Park

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Speaker 3: five and Jeff Daskovic and Andy Kreebeck, And I think

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Speaker 3: the difference is that Darnell had the state of mind

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Speaker 3: at the time that he just was not going to

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Speaker 3: give a false confession, and clearly that officer knew that

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Speaker 3: and he didn't care, and he was going to say

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Speaker 3: that he did it anyway. And that's, you know, the

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Speaker 3: story that they continue to say that Darnell confessed, and

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Speaker 3: that's what they've stuck to for twenty eight years. So

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Speaker 3: in the recent court decision, it still continues to state that,

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Speaker 3: you know, Darnell confessed, which we just know is patently false.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to get to that later because there's

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Speaker 1: a whole long tail on this story, right you know,

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Speaker 1: he's still being persecuted by the state, even after having

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Speaker 1: been proven innocent, and even after the victim coming forward

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Speaker 1: repeatedly and really begging the authorities to reverse this and

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Speaker 1: realizing that she had made a mistake. And we can

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Speaker 1: get into that too, and how she was really coerced

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Speaker 1: into implicating you. Obviously, when someone endures a traumatic experience,

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Speaker 1: which hers can't be more traumatic than what this poor

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Speaker 1: girl went through, they're going to be prone to misidentifying

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Speaker 1: someone or making mistakes, even if everybody does their job

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Speaker 1: the way they're supposed to. That's not what happened here.

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Speaker 1: But what they're probably not going to make a mistake

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Speaker 1: on is identifying the color of the clothes, right, facial characteristics, height, Right,

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Speaker 1: she's not sitting there with you know, a grass to

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Speaker 1: be able to show how tall you are, how much

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Speaker 1: you weigh. They could be off by twenty thirty fifty

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Speaker 1: pounds even who knows. But they're not going to make

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Speaker 1: a mistake on the color of the clothes, not that

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Speaker 1: big of a mistake. It's not like it was gray

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Speaker 1: or you know, light black, or you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like you were wearing completely different clothes, brown.

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Speaker 5: And black Paisley black pants, brown and black Paisley shirt.

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Speaker 5: Chicago Bulls had person they were looking at had a

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Speaker 5: white and green jersey with the numbers forty two. She

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Speaker 5: described that person is being a little older, out of shape.

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Speaker 5: At the time, I used to run every morning, so

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Speaker 5: I was like one hundred and seventy pounds. I should

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Speaker 5: train with my cousin, you know, go boxing and everything.

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Speaker 5: So you know, I was slim and trim, you know.

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Speaker 5: And the sad part about it was that that brown

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Speaker 5: and black garment. They paraded it around in court as

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Speaker 5: if that was the white and green shirt, as if

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Speaker 5: they implicated me with guilt. And I'm like, are they

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Speaker 5: seeing this? The jury, I'm like, are you seeing this?

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Speaker 5: This is a brown and black shirt, then someone with

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Speaker 5: white and green.

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Speaker 1: This is not like that thing that went around on

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Speaker 1: the internet a while ago where it was a dress

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Speaker 1: gold or is it blue? Right, and there was this

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Speaker 1: whole This is not that. This is cut and dry.

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Speaker 1: Anybody with eyes can tell the difference between those colors.

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Speaker 1: It's not tricky. But speaking of tricky, I mean, the

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Speaker 1: only word I can think of for it is disgusting

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Speaker 1: on a number of levels, which is what they did

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Speaker 1: to influence this young girl to implicate you, right, they

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Speaker 1: were willing to go to extreme lengths to let's just

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Speaker 1: call it, get this case off their desk, Lisa, Can

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Speaker 1: you talk about some of the things that they did

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Speaker 1: to influence this young girl who was so impressionable at

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Speaker 1: this point and so damaged and so upset.

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Speaker 3: So the victim in this case was a ten year

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Speaker 3: old female who had been brutally sexually assaulted. She could

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Speaker 3: not identify anyone when they came to speak with her,

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Speaker 3: and they influenced her by telling her that Darnell had

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Speaker 3: in fact confessed, but that they couldn't use the confession

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Speaker 3: against him. They told her that her blood was found

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Speaker 3: on Darnell's underwear. They told her that Darnell had committed

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Speaker 3: similar crimes and been in trouble in the past, all

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Speaker 3: of which were absolutely false, and they told her this

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Speaker 3: to influence her to give an identification of Darnell to

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Speaker 3: maintain the charge and also to get a conviction in

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Speaker 3: a trial. Yeah, I mean disgusting. I don't even think

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Speaker 3: begins to cover doing that to someone, because not only

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Speaker 3: are you doing this to Darnell, who they knew was innocent,

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Speaker 3: it's not a mistake. It's not an innocent mistake. In

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Speaker 3: this case, they knew he was innocent. And it's not

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Speaker 3: just leaving a predator on the street who's most likely

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Speaker 3: going to commit another crime like this, but you're also

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Speaker 3: committing a fraud on a ten year old victim who

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Speaker 3: was sexually assaulted and her family who all had to

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Speaker 3: go through that, and then twenty eight years later she

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Speaker 3: finds out that it's all been a lie. And think

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Speaker 3: about what kind of wrapping your mind around that would

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Speaker 3: do to you after going through that kind of an

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Speaker 3: experience as a child, and now having a wrap your

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Speaker 3: mind around that you know you were part of this

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Speaker 3: fraud as well, I mean unknowingly didn't do anything wrong

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Speaker 3: on her own. She was told this, and of course

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Speaker 3: we all believe the police. When you're ten and you

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Speaker 3: go through something like that, all of us would believe that.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to the girl, I was getting

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Speaker 1: the chills while you were talking, because I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: who's to say that this guy who's still out on

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Speaker 1: the streets wasn't going to go back and rape her again?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: She was in danger, and look, maybe they couldn't have

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Speaker 1: caught him anyway. Maybe he had disappeared into thin air

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Speaker 1: or gone to Canada or who knows right, but if

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Speaker 1: he was around, there was a way to find him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is Virginia Beach too, This is not

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Speaker 1: a tiny little town. They have resources, right, They have

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Speaker 1: trained professionals that could have gone and done the hard

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Speaker 1: work to go find this guy.

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Speaker 3: Well, the tourism industry in Virginia Beach is very strong,

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Speaker 3: as well as the military community, and I think for

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Speaker 3: both of those things, you know, you would want to

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Speaker 3: find the actual perpetrator rather than just lock somebody up and,

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Speaker 3: like you said, get the file off their.

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Speaker 1: Desk and give the public the false impression that everything's

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Speaker 1: safe now and you can go out and do your thing,

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Speaker 1: when in fact they should have been telling people to

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Speaker 1: keep a careful eye on their kids while we're continuing

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Speaker 1: this investigation. Don't let them go anywhere by themselves. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure kids were just right back to riding their bikes

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Speaker 1: and doing whatever they did in Virginia Beach back then,

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Speaker 1: twenty eight years ago. Tarnell, let's talk about the trial.

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Speaker 1: There you are with alibi witnesses, credible alibi witnesses. As

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Speaker 1: you said, the preacher's daughter, and this and that, and

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Speaker 1: like your friends, and you had an almost air tight case.

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Speaker 1: How long were you in jail awaiting trial.

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Speaker 5: I stayed in jail for like five months and I

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Speaker 5: made bond. Here's how far the injustice goes, Jason. When

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Speaker 5: I was in jail, my lawyer told me, I said, Darnelle, look,

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Speaker 5: you don't have a record, and there are certain things

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Speaker 5: in this case that he said, don't line up, he said,

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Speaker 5: but they have to give you a record. I said,

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Speaker 5: give me a record like what he said, They're going

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Speaker 5: to open a book up on you. They can give

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Speaker 5: you a robbery charge. I said, a robbery charge. So

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Speaker 5: they gave me. It was two cases. But because this

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Speaker 5: rate charge was so heavy, they gave me a robbery

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Speaker 5: charge when I had witnesses. I was at work. I

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Speaker 5: couldn't have been there, right, I didn't drive at the time, Jason.

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Speaker 1: So so they invented a prior robbery just.

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Speaker 5: So they could just to give me a criminal record.

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Speaker 1: So they had an open robbery case and they just decided.

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Speaker 5: He told me they were gonna dump it, and they

340
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 5: gave a description of the man at the time. You know,

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Speaker 5: when I saw the guy on the photos I saw,

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Speaker 5: it was like he was like a larger, light skinned guy,

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Speaker 5: had bald head at the time, and my ID picture

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Speaker 5: I had full headed hair, you know this summertime. I

345
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Speaker 5: was you know, dark brown.

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Speaker 1: So they had like a surveillance photo of the guy

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Speaker 1: or somewhere.

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Speaker 5: But the guy had an ear ring in his ear.

349
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Speaker 5: Now here's the thing about it. I had an ear

350
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Speaker 5: ring in my ear when I was fourteen. It became

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Speaker 5: infected because my brother friend did it. But by the

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Speaker 5: time trial came along four years later, the victim had

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Speaker 5: said the guy had an earring, but a plastic surgeon

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Speaker 5: came and told him that it's no way in the

355
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Speaker 5: world his ear could have been opened at that time.

356
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Speaker 5: He says, this is a fully heeled ear. He said,

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Speaker 5: it's no way in the world possible. And so I

358
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Speaker 5: didn't look like the guy. I had alibi witnesses, so

359
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 5: they give me another false charge. But the other case,

360
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Speaker 5: I was facing three life sentences in thirty years, So

361
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Speaker 5: really I wasn't thinking about that too much, right, and

362
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Speaker 5: so they were just pretty much dumping everything on me.

363
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Speaker 5: So when I got out on bond Man, I was

364
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Speaker 5: a very fearful person because my outlook on the police office.

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Speaker 5: They weren't the same anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's a good thing they caught the guy that killed

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Speaker 1: Ay Blinket. They might have tried to pin that on

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Speaker 1: you too, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, you know,

369
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Speaker 1: we got an open case here. They was this guy.

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Speaker 1: We were in the theater back in eighteen sixty whatever,

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Speaker 1: and they'd be like, no, yeah, this guy, this is

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Speaker 1: the guy right here. You know what I mean. We

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Speaker 1: can laugh about it now, Well you're laughing about it,

374
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Speaker 1: but like it's actually it's preposterous. So back to the trial.

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Speaker 5: So I got out on bond. No remember the fifth

376
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Speaker 5: nineteen ninety. I went to trial in June nineteen ninety.

377
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Speaker 5: I saw my first day, my lawyer told me to

378
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Speaker 5: go to the back of the courtroom. I was like, well,

379
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Speaker 5: why do you tell me to go to the back

380
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Speaker 5: of the courtroom. For they saw the prosecutor walking the

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Speaker 5: victim down the aisle and they stopped on my aisle.

382
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Speaker 5: And she didn't point me out, but what she did

383
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Speaker 5: she stopped by my eye and I'm like, what in

384
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Speaker 5: the world is going on? But later on we found

385
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Speaker 5: out that they coached her. She said that they coached her,

386
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Speaker 5: that Look, he's going to be sitting at that table.

387
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Speaker 5: This is what he got on. Don't change your story.

388
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Speaker 5: So she was coached, not only by police officer, was

389
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Speaker 5: coached by prosecutors. Came time for trial to you know,

390
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 5: the victim pointed me out from that. I found that

391
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Speaker 5: out maybe like a year ago, you know what I mean.

392
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Speaker 5: So keep mind twenty seven years past. I'm finding this out.

393
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Speaker 5: I'm like, that's what's going on. Because I was often puzzled,

394
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Speaker 5: why didn't they just stop her where the row I

395
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Speaker 5: was at? And so I said, that's why the prosecutors

396
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Speaker 5: did that.

397
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Speaker 1: Were there any rumors around because you were out for

398
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 1: this period of time before the trial, were there rumors

399
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,679
Speaker 1: around the neighborhood about somebody else that might have done it?

400
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, the name was mentioned by one of the victim's

401
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 5: family friends. Is what ass I believe the victim's father

402
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 5: about some man named Omar because one of the victim's

403
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 5: friend she said that when she was walking on the

404
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 5: path and saw the girl with the bike, she said

405
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 5: she saw also so a guy with a black hat,

406
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 5: very popular Michael, like a bulls hat at the time.

407
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 5: You know, he was toiling in his hands and she

408
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 5: said he had on similar type clothing, you know, white,

409
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 5: white and green and stuff. She said, well, he was

410
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 5: toiling the hat and then when she looked, he just

411
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 5: took off running and she said, oh, they looked just

412
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Speaker 5: like Omar. In court when I heard that, I said, okay,

413
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 5: so evidently maybe you know, they'll find this Omar guy

414
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 5: saw be in the clear. But they never really looked for.

415
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Speaker 1: Omar, you know, so they weren't really interested in No more.

416
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Speaker 5: They weren't interested Omar. They were interested in Darnell.

417
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Speaker 3: But at that point also it's important to remember that

418
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Speaker 3: not only was their misconduct by the police and Darnell's

419
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 3: original questioning, but there was continued misconduct by pointing Darnell

420
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Speaker 3: out to the victim in the courtroom and coaching her

421
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Speaker 3: and telling her these false things about Darnell from the

422
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Speaker 3: first place, so really from the Star throughout the trial

423
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Speaker 3: with the prosecutors, there was continued sheenanigans to nail it

424
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Speaker 3: on him. And I don't really think they were interested

425
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 3: in anybody else.

426
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: Clearly they weren't interesting.

427
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Speaker 3: But they clearly knew that he didn't do it, too,

428
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 3: because if he did it, you don't have to go

429
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 3: about it.

430
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:13,400
Speaker 5: This way that's true.

431
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 1: But I mean we do have obviously cases of tunnel vision,

432
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,160
Speaker 1: where you have prosecutors and police who believe that they

433
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 1: have the right guy and then they just sort of,

434
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, they get into this sort of vortex where

435
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: they shape and shift the narrative in order to fit

436
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: what they believed to be true. And that's a thing

437
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 1: that happens. This doesn't seem like that was the case

438
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 1: at all. They knew you didn't confess, they knew you

439
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: weren't wearing the right clothes, they knew you had an alibi,

440
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 1: they knew you had never been in trouble. There was

441
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 1: not one little thing that would have indicated to anybody

442
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: that was actually you. So this cannot be swept under

443
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,439
Speaker 1: the rug and called it, you know, a mistake and

444
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 1: in a case of tunnel vision, because that's clearly not

445
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 1: what it was. I mean, what this was was a

446
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,919
Speaker 1: lynching for back of a better word. And so you

447
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: go to trial. How long did the trial last?

448
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 5: Three day? Trial?

449
00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: Did you testify?

450
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 5: Yes? I did? And what was that like? Well, to me,

451
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 5: eighteen you know, you don't have the same verbiage azz.

452
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,919
Speaker 5: You know, I'm a toure prosecutor you know, and so

453
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 5: even though you can stand your grounds, you really can't

454
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 5: protect yourself because you don't know any of the legal terminology.

455
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 5: And so every time you're trying to say, no, I

456
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 5: was here with my friend, well this and that, and

457
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 5: it didn't trick me up. I just couldn't express myself

458
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 5: as well as I can now, because you know, the

459
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 5: eighteen year old down there in the forty seven year

460
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 5: old donaire a large difference, you know. And so to

461
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 5: me it was hard fying because I'm like, can't they

462
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 5: can't they see what's going on? I mean, they about

463
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,719
Speaker 5: to take my life. I said, they're not considering this,

464
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 5: and I'm looking at the prosecutors and they were dead

465
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 5: set on me going to prison for the rest of

466
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 5: my life. I'm looking at the police officer. I'm like,

467
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 5: I'm looking at them fabricating a story because I know

468
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 5: I was in the house that day, and so I

469
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 5: couldn't have been out raping someone. I was trying to

470
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 5: tell them this what I was watching on TV. If

471
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 5: you go back and look at this on TV, you'll

472
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 5: see I'm correct. There's no way I know where I

473
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 5: could have been on the crime scene. If I'm watching TV.

474
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 5: I was trying to tell them about my friend's mother.

475
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 5: She had told them, but they would not let her

476
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 5: testify in court because at that moment she had brain

477
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 5: cancer and the months that I was out, she began

478
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 5: to lose her sight. But she said she still remember

479
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 5: that man did not have on white and green. That

480
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 5: man held him all brown and black, and he was

481
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 5: right here on this couch with me. So they never

482
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 5: let her testify that day. To me, it was horrible.

483
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 5: You know, I didn't have a juror of my peers.

484
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 5: You know, I think the closest I they came to

485
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 5: a dur on my peers was a person that was

486
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 5: she's probably about twenty eight. I don't know whether she

487
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 5: was Chinese, I don't know what she was.

488
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: But no black people on the Jersey Nah, oh boy,

489
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: you know. And so you know, I had lunch the

490
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: other day with a friend of mine who was doing

491
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: great things and criminal justice perform and she was telling

492
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 1: me before she became this performer, you know, now, I

493
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: don't think anbody woul put her on a jury, but

494
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: she was on the jury. And she said she was

495
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: on this case. It was a serious criminal case. And

496
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 1: she said the third day of deliberations, the jury start saying,

497
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: you know what, I really don't care anymore whether the

498
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: guy's guilty or not. I'm going home like I've had it,

499
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: Like I got things to do. I can't be bothered

500
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: with this anymore. Like people were just breaking down, all right, guilty,

501
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like people were just caving.

502
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: And I'm making that point because I don't know what

503
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 1: went on in your jury room, but after three days,

504
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 1: you know, you could kind of understand how jurors could

505
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: become so stressed out and everybody wants to go home.

506
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: But I think when you're listening to Darnella and you

507
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: hear the pain, and you know that he's just one

508
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: of millions that have gone through this, so many of

509
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: whom were innocent. You know, I'm just asking people to

510
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: keep that in mind when you're in that jury room

511
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: and it's an inconvenience, you know what, We got to

512
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: work together to prevent these things from happening. And it's

513
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: not going to happen if people are going to be

514
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: susceptible to their own personal needs at a time when

515
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: they hold somebody's life in their hands, as it was

516
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: in your case. Because I got to believe that there

517
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: were jurors in that room that we're sitting there going

518
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: wait a minute, though the thing didn't match the description

519
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: that this that that I mean, you know, because there

520
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: was no forensic evidence. I mean, they made up a

521
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: story about a hair, right, one hair on a blanket, right,

522
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: that was another thing.

523
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 5: Right, they said the man, he's eighty something now, but

524
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 5: he told them, well, you know, that was what they

525
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 5: called junk science. But at the time he said that

526
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 5: it had like fourteen particulars that kind of they were

527
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 5: similar to mine. But when they tested it in two

528
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 5: thousand and one, it shows it wasn't mine at all.

529
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 5: As a matter of fact, whoever it was the mother

530
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 5: had Caucasian. It was a mine, the man from the

531
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,719
Speaker 5: Department of Defense, they tested it.

532
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there was junk science involved on top of

533
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: all the other stuff. That was the only physical evidence

534
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: was one hair on a blanket that was found with

535
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: the girl near the girl, which of course now we

536
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: know wasn't your hair anyway. So if they needed another

537
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: story to make up, there there it was. And how

538
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: long did the jury deliberate.

539
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 5: Deliberate it like three days on the third day of

540
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 5: the trial, about eight o'clock at night, they rendered the

541
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 5: decision and they told me, you know, guilty. I'm like, guilty.

542
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 5: I know what guilty means. But I'm thinking they made

543
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 5: a mistake because how could you incarcerate somebody who's innocent?

544
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 5: And so I'm thinking that maybe I didn't hear this right,

545
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 5: and they were reading off the jurors, you know, suggestions,

546
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 5: and you know, I'm looking at my lawyer. I'm saying, say,

547
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 5: am I going home tonight? And he looks at me,

548
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 5: say he said no. I'm like, what's going on? You know,

549
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 5: He's like, man, you see you're going to prison. Man,

550
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 5: I said, I'm going to prison. Man told him I

551
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 5: was facing one hundred seven years, but they did. They

552
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 5: gave me one hundred years, right, and then with that robbery,

553
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 5: they gave me a seven year sentence. Ye hundred years

554
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 5: at the time, you know, and I'm like, a hundred years,

555
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 5: I said, man, I'm a kid. I didn't do anything

556
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 5: that was real painful man, you know, because my life

557
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 5: was discarded as if, you know, like I was a

558
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 5: piece of trash or something. You know, you know, a

559
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 5: hundred years I had dreams and I wanted to do

560
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 5: things I wouldn't committing. You know, I was a very

561
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 5: good young man. I just wanted to help people with

562
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 5: my life, and here they are, they want to.

563
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: Take my life. So there you go to prison. You're

564
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: stuck there for decades. And as you said, you were

565
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: a young man with dreams and hopes like anybody would

566
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: be at eighteen. How did you manage to never lose

567
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: hope in this situation?

568
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 5: You know, I was personally. I had just came into

569
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 5: my faith and I said, you know, regardless of how

570
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 5: long I have to stay there, I said, I'm not

571
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 5: going to allow that place to cause me to succumb

572
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 5: to its environment. The court system had already failed me.

573
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 5: So and I just believed that one day the truth

574
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 5: will come out. You know. That's just something that was

575
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 5: a conviction in me. Outside of that, the only thing

576
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 5: that got me through my faith. Man, I'm gonna be

577
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 5: honest with you, writing, you know, reading the Bible and

578
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 5: studying and praying. And because I want to go into industry,

579
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 5: so I studied for that because I wanted to help people.

580
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 5: And so I said, well, if I can't help people

581
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 5: on the outside, I can help people on the inside.

582
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 5: And so that's what I started doing teaching and preaching

583
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 5: and writing. You know, I said, wrote several manuscripts with books,

584
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 5: just teaching myself a lot of things. Man, studying business.

585
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 5: I studied law because I did it some of the

586
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 5: pro sal on my own case before I worked. You know,

587
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 5: I did everything I could man to keep my head

588
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 5: above waters.

589
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 4: Man.

590
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 5: But mostly I would say my faith, man, and helping people. Man.

591
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 5: I found relief in helping others, you know, because everything else, Man,

592
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 5: it had failed me.

593
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: So ultimately we know now that you're here, this is

594
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: the good part of the story. How did you first

595
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: get in touch with the Virginia Innocence Project? What did

596
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: that mean to you when they agreed to represent you?

597
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: And then how did things develop from there?

598
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 5: Well, I was the teacher's aid at Southampton Correctional Center

599
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 5: for several years, and I had a boss there that

600
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 5: he sent something to the New York Innocence Project because

601
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 5: he said, bhavior was kind of strange. He said, I

602
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 5: kind of stood out for the other inmates, and he said,

603
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 5: you don't belong here. He said something wrong. So I

604
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 5: broke down and I told him the story, and he said,

605
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 5: don He said, I put something into the New York

606
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 5: Innocence Project, he said, I don't know whether or not

607
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 5: they got it, he said, but I put it in.

608
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 5: And so several years later, I was at Green Rock

609
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 5: Correctional Center. I think New York had sent me back

610
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 5: some paperwork said that they were opening up Virginia chapter

611
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 5: of the Innocence Project. And so one of the students

612
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 5: came and visited me. And this is right after my

613
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 5: father had died in two thousand and nine. You know.

614
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 5: They visited me and told me he said, Man, I

615
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 5: don't know whether or not I'll be able to help

616
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 5: you before I leave, he said, but I'm gonna give

617
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 5: it my best shot, try to get you out of

618
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 5: there before I graduated. I said, that's cool. So I

619
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 5: met that one student he graduated. I hadn't heard anything for,

620
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 5: you know, several years, and so finally my older sister

621
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 5: one morning, she said, you know what, I have to

622
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,719
Speaker 5: do something. So she drove up. She had never been

623
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 5: to Charlottesville. She drove up to Charlottesville and she had

624
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 5: my paperwork. When she went there, she didn't know whether

625
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 5: or not university was open what, but she asked when

626
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 5: with the that was dear Jen right once she be there.

627
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 5: So she brought in, you know, the boxes and everything,

628
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 5: and ultimately, and this is project, they really started looking

629
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 5: more intent. One thing that touched me. I'm gonna tell

630
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 5: you what touched me. Jennifer Gibbons had told me. She said,

631
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 5: you know, Donelle, even if we don't find DNA, you

632
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 5: know, because they would look for DNA, the say they couldn't

633
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 5: find any DNA because the Prosecutor City had been destroyed

634
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 5: in two thousand and five. So she said, you know,

635
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 5: we're gonna fight this even if we don't find DNA.

636
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 5: I finally felt like I was being heard. I went

637
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 5: through so many decades without being heard, and now finally

638
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 5: I didn't know how to take it. Someone talking to

639
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 5: you like a human didn't give them the time and

640
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 5: the energy. And they talked to me. They were very kind,

641
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 5: and so I was like, man, I said, I'm actually

642
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 5: going to get some help now. I had been praying

643
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 5: about this for years. I said, man, I'm really going

644
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 5: to get some help. I said, I have to give

645
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 5: it up to the Inner Project. You know, they were

646
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 5: more than lawyers. They were like family to me.

647
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: Well they were lawyers, they were family. They were also

648
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: private investigators. They were doing.

649
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 5: Yes, they did. They started looking around, combing around for evidence,

650
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 5: and in twenty sixteen they had found some evidence, you know,

651
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 5: and I'm like, okay, now, let's see what this did.

652
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 5: They going to show up and clear me. You know,

653
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 5: I had no problem testing because knew I didn't do anything.

654
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 5: So they went try to get it tested, the clothing

655
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 5: because some of the other stuff had been destroyed deliberately,

656
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 5: in my opinion, they tested it. They said that Virginia

657
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 5: couldn't find anything, so they went to an external lab.

658
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 5: In that lab in California, they found some DNA.

659
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: And let's not skip over too quickly the fact that,

660
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: as if they hadn't done enough, they also lied to

661
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: you about the existence of the evidence, right, They covered

662
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: it up for a decade. For a decade they said

663
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: there's no evidence, but there was evidence. And we've seen

664
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: this again and again in Alan Newton's case, Kurk Bloodsworth's case,

665
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: so many cases where they say the evidence is not here,

666
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: but it's here. Somebody just has to go look for it.

667
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: But they just keep moving the gold posts and trying

668
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: to hope that the maybe they're trying to get the

669
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: lawyers to give up. I mean, every time I try

670
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: to figure it out or understand it, I just I

671
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: don't understand why they Why would anybody not want to

672
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: get to the truth, except for they want to protect

673
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: somebody's reputation. And this goes on and it's still going

674
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: on to this day in your case, which you know,

675
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: hopefully it will get resolved because we know now that

676
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: your outfie, you're still not even really free. So that's

677
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: another thing that has to get addressed. And when we

678
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: get to that part of the story. So they found

679
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: the DNA, they got it tested in California. How did

680
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: you find out that the results came back that showed

681
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: that you weren't the.

682
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 5: Guy I was on the ballpark because this was like

683
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 5: the third go round because as Virginia tested it, they

684
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 5: couldn't find anything. But the guy in California, he said

685
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 5: he tested right where they were testing and he found it.

686
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 5: I'm like, how does that work? Because Virginia's they're very flawed,

687
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 5: they're very behind on technology when it comes to DNA.

688
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 5: But yet when you present it to the courtrooms, they

689
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 5: don't want to receive it because it's not from Virginia.

690
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 5: But yet Virginia they have a very flawed forensic science laboratory.

691
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 5: You know, I have to say that because if it wasn't,

692
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 5: you know, I wouldn't be here. Years later, so I

693
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 5: was outside on the yard. An officer told me, look,

694
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 5: someone wants to talk to you, so I call my lawyer.

695
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 5: So when I talked to him, Deringja and Wright asked me.

696
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 5: She said, donall you you're sitting down. I said, well,

697
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 5: what is it, Derja? She said, are you sitting down?

698
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 5: I'm like I said, yeah, yeah, she said. A man

699
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 5: called from the laboratory in California. He said it wasn't yours.

700
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 5: And they said, now here's something that people get confused about.

701
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 5: Whoever it was in the DNA had three markers similar

702
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 5: to mine. Scientifically, one in ten African American men have

703
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 5: three markers of the same But then when you get

704
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 5: to the rest of the markers, it shows O, this

705
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 5: is a totally different person. One in twenty three individuals

706
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 5: have the same three markers. And so the man told

707
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 5: them that when you look on the outside, he said,

708
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 5: you see the person had similar markers three but when

709
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 5: you get to the rest of them, to which they

710
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 5: didn't want to test, he said, it shows you it's

711
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 5: not donell He says, it's not him. It's not him.

712
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 5: So these labs outside of Virginia they saw the truth,

713
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 5: but when we brought it back over Virginia side, they

714
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 5: didn't want to process it because they didn't do it.

715
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 5: So go figure, Go figure, man.

716
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: I didn't know that science only worked inside the state lines.

717
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: You know, science is science.

718
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 5: Unfortunately, you know, no one really pushed that law yet,

719
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 5: you know, pushed it through. Man, But you know, you

720
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 5: have a lot of innocent guys being overlooked. They have proof,

721
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 5: but because sometimes the labs didn't come through Virginia, the

722
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 5: testing income through Virginia, they just can't get anything done.

723
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 5: And some of these guys I talked to Saturday, I said,

724
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 5: it's beautiful you call me because I'm going to New York.

725
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 5: I said, Man, you know I can never forget you,

726
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 5: and I'm not going to forget you. You know, I said,

727
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 5: I wish I was totally clear. Man, I can really

728
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 5: do some things to help you, you know, but like

729
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 5: I say, you know, unfortunate. I'm not in that position yet.

730
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: But which is an interesting thing because you were paroled

731
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: without admitting guilt, which almost never happens. And I know

732
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: the audience is probably thinking, wait a minute, but now

733
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,479
Speaker 1: the DNA, wouldn't the case just be overturned and thrown out,

734
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: But they still fought that, and you had to go

735
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: out sort of through the almost through the back door,

736
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: so to speak, right by getting paroled, but still being

737
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: forced to register and you know, be punished again on

738
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: the outside because in your case, Virginia just doesn't want

739
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: to admit that they're wrong. What we were talking about before,

740
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 1: which is so profound, is the victim herself, right, who's

741
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: now a grown woman. I mean, this is twenty eight

742
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: years ago, so she's thirty eight, thirty nine years old,

743
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: and talk about what her advocacy for you has mat

744
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: how they have prevented her, Like she wanted to actually

745
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: come and greet you and hug you and apologize or

746
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: whatever it was that was on her mind as you

747
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: were coming out the prison gates, and they wouldn't even

748
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: allow her to do that.

749
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 5: She had requested it, because she was the one who

750
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 5: went and testified on my behalf, you know once my lawyers.

751
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 5: Of course, I've never spoken to her outside of that

752
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 5: at all, but my lawyers when they talk to us,

753
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 5: she's like, well, look, you know, I want to do

754
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 5: whatever I can to help get Darnell exonerated. She went

755
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 5: to the parole board herself. So she asked my lawyers.

756
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 5: She said, well, you know, can I go and see

757
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 5: Darnelle law They're like, well, you know, I can't do

758
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 5: that because you know, like I said, the system. You know,

759
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 5: she still want to meet me to this day, I

760
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 5: can't meet her. I don't know. Man. I appreciate her because,

761
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 5: you know, she could have kept in her mind, she

762
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 5: would have went to a grade with it. But she

763
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 5: was a bold woman. To me, that was a profound

764
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 5: because she's done more than a lot of times than

765
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 5: many of the legal people have done for me, you know,

766
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 5: because she came forth with the truth. She filled in

767
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 5: a lot of blanks that I didn't know, my lawyers

768
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 5: didn't know as to why things were going on, you know,

769
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 5: like an undercurrent, and she filled them blanks in. So

770
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,479
Speaker 5: for that, I'll ever be grateful to her.

771
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: And so you walked out of prison after twenty eight years.

772
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 5: Well, I was ecstatic then, Jason, because one, you know,

773
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 5: you're you're an ambitious man, Lisa, You're a very ambitious woman.

774
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 5: You know, you had an opportunity to work in your passions.

775
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 5: Well me, even though a lot of times I worked

776
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 5: on my passion in prison. Now I'm like, I can

777
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 5: finally come out and do this because those fires never

778
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 5: died in me and so I'm like, man, I'm gonna

779
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 5: be able to do this now. That's all I wanted

780
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 5: to do. I wanted to feel like what my purpose

781
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 5: was that was going to ministry, to get in the business,

782
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 5: to marry. My fiancee would have been with me for

783
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 5: eighteen years fighting alongside me. I'm like, man, I'm gonna

784
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 5: be able to get married now, I'm gonna be able

785
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 5: to go to in the ministry. I'm gonna be able

786
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 5: to start a business. I'm gonna be able to be

787
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 5: around my mother and to close that chapter of my life,

788
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 5: so to speak.

789
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: What is it like now, Like, how's your day to day?

790
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: Been out for four months now?

791
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 5: When people do recognize me, they're very empathetic, you know,

792
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 5: sympathetic towards me. But when it comes time to work, now,

793
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 5: like keep mind, like I'm forty seven years old, man,

794
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 5: pretty much have to start like a person who's sixteen

795
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 5: years old. The jobs I go for, I go for

796
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 5: like sales jobs or I go for any other type

797
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 5: of job. I mean, I'm broken down to warehouse or whatever.

798
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 5: I just wanted some employment. Sometimes even though they're not

799
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 5: supposed to discriminate, and even though they believe you, and

800
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 5: even though they took me, I recognize your case. But

801
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 5: one of the jobs I had went to the man said,

802
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 5: you know, he said, man, you have to be cleared

803
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 5: when I do the background chase. He said, you have

804
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 5: to be cleared for this job. He said, I understand

805
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 5: your situation, but you have to be cleared, and so

806
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 5: that I couldn't get the job. Personally, I understood because

807
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 5: I know that he has to represent his business. But

808
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 5: in my heart and mind, I'm like, man, I'm still

809
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 5: paying for something I didn't do. So I have to

810
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 5: depend on other people for money when that is not

811
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 5: my nature at all. All I want to do is

812
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 5: be able to provide for myself, get married, you know,

813
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 5: get a vehicle. I have to depend on people for

814
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 5: rides because I can't even get a cheap vehicle. And

815
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 5: so even though I'm glad to be out, you know,

816
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 5: I'm grateful, but I still have to suffer day to day.

817
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 5: I want to start my own business. I wanna start

818
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 5: all those detailing business But if I could work, I

819
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 5: could get the little money that it costs a little

820
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 5: six thousand dollar that shouldn't a struggle. But you can't work,

821
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 5: so you can't get the money. And so I'm not

822
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 5: a criminal, So I'm not gonna commit crimes. I'm not

823
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 5: gonna sell drugs. I'm not gonna ride. That's not my nature.

824
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 5: The only thing I can do, man is prey man

825
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 5: look for opportunity to come man.

826
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: People that are listening, maybe they live in or know

827
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: about opportunities in the area of Virginia Beach area. How

828
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: would they contact you? Do you have a website or

829
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: an email address or something like that you wanna share.

830
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 5: I have an email d ar n p h I

831
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 5: L nineteen at yahoo dot com.

832
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: Darnfeld d A r n p h I L nineteen

833
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: the number nineteen at Yahoo. If people want to reach

834
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: out to you for speaking gigs maybe or anything else

835
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: like that.

836
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: We actually set up a GoFundMe to try to give

837
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 3: him more opportunities. Now you know, in the meantime of

838
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 3: being fully exonerated.

839
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 1: How do people access to GoFundMe so they.

840
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 3: Can google Darnell Phillips go fund me, or they can

841
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 3: go to the website V four jr dot org and

842
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: there's a link on our website to the go fundme

843
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 3: account v as in Victor the number four j r

844
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 3: dot org. Or they can look us up Virginians for

845
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 3: Judicial Reform on Facebook and there are links to it

846
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 3: on our Facebook and Twitter and Instagram as well.

847
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: So before we wrap up, my question for you is,

848
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: are you better.

849
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 5: No, I'm gonna be honest with you, Jason. That would

850
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 5: sound crazy, but when I said that I wouldn't let

851
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 5: that place, I wouldn't let this situation change me. I

852
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 5: meit that. I vowed that to myself and I vowed

853
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 5: it to God. I said, I will not allow that

854
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 5: to change me because it will make me like them,

855
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 5: you know. And I'm not talking about inmate. It would

856
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 5: make me like the wickedness that people perform to get

857
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 5: me in there, you know. So I'm not bitter. I

858
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 5: did not like what happened to me, but I'm not

859
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 5: bitter because the people I met, the experiences I went

860
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 5: through outside of the legal system. Now, the individuals I met,

861
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 5: it opened my eyes up to you know that their

862
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 5: cause is bigger than myself and my only thing is

863
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 5: how do I get involved to help them? You know,

864
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 5: because it's all about helping people. It's all about helping

865
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 5: people get to the next level in their life, you know.

866
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 5: And you have to live your life or calls outside

867
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 5: of yourself, you know, like like you, you know you

868
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 5: you're a great producer, but you find the time to

869
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 5: help guys in situations like mine, you know what I mean.

870
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 5: There's two different things. But nevertheless, that's a passion of yours,

871
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. That's a God's send for

872
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 5: guys like me. Man, you don't really know how how

873
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 5: strongly you know you affect us. Man, You really affect

874
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 5: us to a degree, man, to our core, because you

875
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 5: actually hear guys, You actually take the time. I remember

876
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 5: when I called you on the phone. I was shocked.

877
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 5: I thought I was gonn get a secretary of So

878
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 5: I said, I just got answered his phone. I mean

879
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 5: for real, I said, he this guy answered his phone.

880
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 5: I said, just got cared for real. And so you

881
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 5: don't find many people like you, man, So I would

882
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 5: just sit there and continue what you're doing, man, you know,

883
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 5: and pray after it. One day, Man, I'll be able

884
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 5: to help people just like that.

885
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: You definitely will. And you know, for me, it's a

886
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: duty but also a privilege to be able to be

887
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: around people like yourself who have been to hell and

888
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: back and come out with a smiling face and a

889
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: bouncing your step. It's an unbelievable thing. I mean, it's

890
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: really a selfish thing that I do, you know, because

891
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: it makes my life better, you know, knowing you people

892
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 1: like Lisa that are involved in the fight. The other

893
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: Xigneries really the finest people that I've had the chance

894
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: to come across, most of them are Exigneries. It's crazy,

895
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: so I don't really understand it, but it is what

896
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: it is. So this is the part of the show

897
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: which is my favorite part of the show because this

898
00:41:58,719 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: is a part of the show where I get to

899
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: stop talking and listen. And you know, first of all,

900
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: I want to thank both of you for coming. It's

901
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: been an honor for me to tape this show with you.

902
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: So thanks again Darnell Philips for coming in and sharing

903
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: your thoughts. And Lisa Speeds. Keep fighting the good fight,

904
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: you know, We'll keep working together and the winds are

905
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: few and far between, and the frustrations a lot, but

906
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: we just keep fighting.

907
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 3: So but the ones are worth it.

908
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: That's right. So now I'm gonna turn it over to

909
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: you just for some brief final thoughts. Lisa, you can

910
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: go first, because we're going to save the best for last.

911
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,919
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me. I think Darnell's case

912
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 3: is just kind of interesting to me because I learned

913
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 3: about him from another wrongfully convicted person that's still in prison.

914
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 3: And when I would email with Darnell has emails to

915
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 3: me while he was still in prison. We're so like

916
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: uplifting and it just was like a breath of fresh

917
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 3: air into my day. So seeing him be on the

918
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 3: outside and meeting him in person today was an incredible experience.

919
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 3: We have some real problems with the criminal justice system

920
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 3: in Virginia. We don't have parole, jury's recommend sentences. The

921
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: way our rid of actual innocence is designed is, you know,

922
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 3: to kind of circumvent actual justice. Ignoring DNA evidence because

923
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 3: it didn't come from Virginia lab is wrong. And so

924
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: you know, we would love for more people to get involved,

925
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: and I know Darnelle wants to get involved and trying

926
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 3: to change the system there to truly seek out justice

927
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 3: for all of us and make it better. So thanks

928
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: for having me.

929
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 5: What I would like to say, I would like to

930
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 5: speak to those who are presently incarcerated. You know, if

931
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 5: they can hear me, that there is always hope, you know,

932
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 5: never give up, you know, never let go of your

933
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 5: dream of being released from prison. Especially for the false incarcerated.

934
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 5: Know that there are groups and people who will hear you,

935
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 5: can hear you, and can feel what you're feeling. From

936
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 5: one innoc and man to another, I said, man, keep

937
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,479
Speaker 5: your faith, don't give up. This is twenty eight years later.

938
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 5: As long as we have good people like the Innocence Project,

939
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 5: Jays flam Messa Speeds, these people out here to help us.

940
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 5: So don't give up. You know, sometimes it's easy to

941
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 5: you know, to stop writing people, to just succumb to

942
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 5: the system, you know, figuring you know you're losing hope

943
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 5: and figuring that, hey, look, no one wants to hear

944
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 5: no one wants to get involved in my situation. Don't

945
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 5: fall prey to the lie. Reach out. There's someone who

946
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 5: will help you.

947
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction and tune in

948
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: next week. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review.

949
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 1: Wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps, and I'm

950
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really

951
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 1: hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause

952
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence

953
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 1: Project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved.

954
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and

955
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is by three

956
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow

957
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at

958
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a

959
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal

960
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 1: Company Number one