WEBVTT - Strauss Zelnick: “Doing something from scratch, that’s challenging.” 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:07.480 You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:10.520 What drove me was not like, oh, I need to 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.000 make a whole lot of dope, and that was never 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.400 motivating for me, and I did well in working for 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.479 other people. But here's the truth. How hard can it 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.720 be when someone hands you a business card that says 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:24.280 president of twentieth century Fox doing something totally from scratch, 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.280 Like totally from scratch. That's challenging and that'll be a 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:28.920 real test. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:33.239 Hi. 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.080 I'm Bob Pittman, and welcome to Math and Magic. Today. 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:38.199 We have someone who has built a career and a 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.199 life by excelling at both. He manages to find the 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.960 next creative spark and nurtured well and at the same 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.080 time put a strong business foundation under it, whether it 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.080 be large or small businesses, or cutting edge or traditional. 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:52.600 He wears a number of hats, but his two main 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.840 ones are as chairman and CEO of Take two Interactive Software, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.960 the publisher of Grand Theft Auto, and as an astute 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.920 and successful inventster best known for Zelnik Media Capital, his 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:06.880 private equity firm focused on media and technology investments, and 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.480 he is a longtime friend. He's Straus Selnik. Strauss had 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.920 business success at an early age and has an incredible resume. 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.720 Let me give you a few examples. In the eighties, 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.720 he was president and Chief Operating officer of twentieth Century Fox, 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.360 and had been president and COO of Vestron Video back 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.959 when Vestron was the dominant player in the home video business. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.560 In the early nineties, he was the president and CEO 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:35.360 of Crystal Dynamics, a super hot interactive entertainment software company startup, 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:37.759 and in the late nineties he was President and CEO 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.800 of BMG Entertainment, at that time one of the world's 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.319 largest music and entertainment companies with more than two hundred 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.080 record labels and operations in fifty four countries. He also 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.120 has an impressive academic resume. He has an MBA from 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.360 the Harvard Business School and a jd from the Harvard 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.680 Law School. He's known for his incredible commitment to physical 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.000 fitness and his commitment to the life he really wanted 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.480 to lead. I've been close to him for about forty 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.640 years and looking forward to digging in with him today. Strauss, welcome, 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:06.880 Thanks for having Dog. 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:07.680 Great to be here. 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:09.560 Before we jump in, I want to do you in 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.640 sixty seconds if you prefer cats or dogs, dogs early 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:17.080 riser or night out early Rassler West Coast or East Coast, 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:22.440 East Coast, New York or Boston, New York. Soccer or basketball, basketball, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:28.079 sleep or workout, workout, coke or pepsi coke, beach or mountains, beach, 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.880 rock and roller, country country, coffee or tea coffee, walking 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:38.040 or running, walking, books or movies, books, cook or read out, cook, 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.680 Godfather or Star Wars, Star Wars, comedy or drama, comedy, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:48.679 Hamburger or Tofu rap Hamburger caller text text about to 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.000 get harder. All time favorite music artist. 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:57.040 James Taylor, first job, Columbia Pictures, Television favorite TV show. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:02.720 But that's really tough, friends, smartest person you know David Remnick, 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:08.200 childhood hero, John F. Kennedy, secret talent, personal trainer. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:11.639 What did you want to be when you were growing up? 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.000 Head of the film studio? 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.200 Okay, let's jump in. One of your hallmarks is how 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.320 well you manage creative people and creative hits driven businesses 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.240 yet still make them successful businesses. How do you strike 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.200 that balance and how do you build and manage your teams? 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.880 You know, I try to build businesses that take enormous 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.160 creative risks and no financial risks. I try to be 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:41.040 creatively risk forward and financially risk averse. So my companies 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:45.000 are all underleveraged. If they're leveraged at all, and they 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:49.960 are I hope, rationally run and cash flow generating businesses. 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.800 And it's amazing how many people in the entertainment business 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.600 don't bother to think about that part. That's important because 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.160 if you have a strong P and L and a 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:02.280 strong balance sheet, creative teams understand that even if they 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.400 make a mistake, the company can live to play another day, 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.920 and the company can afford to make creative mistakes. And 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.480 if you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:16.279 run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:21.480 can't play in this business. I try really hard to recruit, retain, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.680 and motivate the best talent in the business. I'm proud 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.040 of the fact that I've run every kind of entertainment 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:32.440 business there is, and my teams have had the highest 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.120 hit ratios of any teams operating the business at that time. 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:40.320 And that's without exception, and put that in context. I'm 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.680 not the one sitting in the corner office calling someone 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.200 up and giving them notes. I'm not reading scripts, I'm 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.599 not making video games, I'm not producing music, I'm not 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.440 directing TV shows, and I've never done any of that, 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.320 So what's the trick. The trick, in my opinion, is 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:01.279 truly being able to distinguish talent from almost talent, or 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.480 near talent or not talent, and then creating a structure 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.160 that not only allows talented people to pursue their passions, 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.039 but insists that they do so. I'm not sure this 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.280 is much of a skill, but the skill that I 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.520 have is that I seem to be able to identify 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.200 talent in others, and then I seem to be able 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:25.240 to encourage those talented people to work within the system 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.960 that I'm managing and to do their best work. And 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.000 I'm very proud of the fact that in my entire career, 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.599 I've never lost any talent that I didn't want to lose, 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:38.359 not once actually, and to this day, I think even 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.400 my competitors would have to acknowledge that Take two in 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.800 its affiliates have the best collection of creative talent in 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.840 the interactive entertainment business. I mean by a wide margin, 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.680 and our results reflect that our hit ratio reflects that. 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.320 So I'm going to dig into this little bit. I've 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.159 watched you do this for decades. You've taken an interest 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.680 in developing people, not people who already had skills, not 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.000 people that everybody's bidding on because they're the person, but 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.760 you really had an interest in developing the next generation 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.440 of leaders. How do you think about that and how 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.839 do you do it? And is it driven by just 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.919 good business giving back or something else. 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.440 There's an element of giving back because people bet on 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.240 me when I was young and inexperienced, and I like 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.279 to think that that paid off over and over again. 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.440 It's true that some of the very talented people who 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.640 run businesses for me today are people who I recruited 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:38.040 when they were unknown and inexperienced and in their twenties. 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.960 Carl Slatoff, was the president of Take two, has worked 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.000 with me in one enterprise or another since you graduated 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.680 from business school twenty seven or twenty eight years ago. 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.880 Andrew Vogel and Jordan Turkoitz were co CIOs of ZMC, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.159 started with me when they were associates, very very early 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.560 in their careers, and now they're very senior at ZMC. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.800 And it's a very long list actually across all of 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.000 my enterprises, and I have a whole alumni base as well. 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.080 I like to think, of course, there's an element of 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.559 being of service to others. I spend twenty to twenty 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.800 five percent of my time coaching and mentoring people, try 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.160 to help people, and most of those people are not 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:21.960 in any economic system of mind now and then they 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.200 are though, So it seems to me that the hardest 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:29.480 thing to do is convince established talent to leave where 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.920 they're happily employed and come to your system. And it's 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.880 a lot easier to develop your own if you have 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.800 a facility for identifying and developing talent to people, whether 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.320 they're on the creative or executive side. And as I said, 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.320 I think it's probably my only true skill in business. 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.240 Well maybe I'm a reasonably good capital alligator, but yes 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.560 you are. But really, I mean, because I work in 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:56.720 creative businesses, knowing the difference between good and great, that's 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.400 the whole shooting match, and then being willing to you know, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.080 to work with them. So I don't think this is 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.160 talking out of school. When I got to Fox, Jim 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.120 Cameron was finishing up the ABYSS and he had a 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.080 reputation for being a challenging person to work with. And 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.200 I worked closely with Jim Cameron, which is to say, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.440 whatever he wanted to do, I basically said yes to 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.280 because it was obvious to me that he was a 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.720 creative genius. It was, by the way, equally obvious that 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:25.960 I could say no or yes and he was still 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:27.600 going to do what he wanted. We could do this 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:29.440 easy way of the hard way, like why not do 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.120 it the easy way? So what I basically did was 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.480 to the extent he ever was interested in it, I 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:38.480 tried to hold his hand and support him, very very 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.520 very Occasionally he would be interested in my opinion or 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.040 ask for advice and I would offer it, and you know, 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.400 I was there to support and encourage him. And as 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:52.480 a result, he made more pictures for Fox, including after 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.920 I left. He had great success because I was right, 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.400 he was immensely talented, and I wasn't going to add 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.559 anything all to the creative quality of what he was doing. 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.199 So my choice was to say, let's make this experience 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.079 great for all involved, and like, let's get that hit 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:09.679 to market. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.079 Let's talk about the people you help too. You've helped 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.040 people some on their way up, some already there. But 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:17.720 what do you learn from them? 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.280 I think you can learn from everyone, you know. I 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.240 have numerous friends who are decades younger, and by the way, 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.880 numerous fends who are decades older, and I can learn 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.440 and do learn from all of them. I find that today. 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.320 One of the reasons that I can continue to be 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.679 relevant and capable is that I spend a lot of 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.280 time with young people, so I don't have to play 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.800 catch up to figure out what TikTok is. I was 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.959 involved with Discord like days after it launched because I 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.959 have my ear of the ground with people who are 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:51.360 decades younger. That's very much informed what I do, particularly 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.720 in businesses like interactive entertainment, a big segment of which 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:55.920 is youth oriented. 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.480 We're talking about people here. Let's take a one more 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.040 step talk a little about the power of teams and collaboration. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.280 I have mixed feelings about that. You know, it's funny. 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.959 I worked for Joe Roth at Fox, who was chairman 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.720 of the studio when I was president, and he said, 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:14.120 you know, creativity is ultimately a singular exercise. I agree 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.040 with that. I defy you to show me a big 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:20.200 hit that truly was created by a massive team. Generally 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:24.199 there was one powerful creative voice driving that. On the 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.360 other hand, particularly in businesses like interactive entertainment, you can't 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.920 execute anything without a big team, at least not currently. 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.160 So the true creative genius is in our business as 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:37.199 someone who can add value as an individual contributor creatively 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.959 and motivate a massive team to create value and then 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:46.160 ultimately pull the property together with some element of singular 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.240 focus to deliver a hit. I mean, I think that's 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.280 what a great director does. I think the showrunners play 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.040 that role in television, and producers play that role and 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.280 record of music and that's why you can listen into 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:06.560 music and certain producers had very specific sounds associated with 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.679 their approach. So I think it's both. To answer your question, 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.760 there's an element of singular creative leadership and engagement, and 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:18.520 then there is an element of encouraging and leading and 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:23.439 managing and motivating a big team to usher that vision 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:24.200 into reality. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.360 You had a great career we touched on a little 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.920 bit at a very young age, huge jobs in your twenties. 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.400 Did that early head start shape you and make you 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.960 different from the leaders who are probably in their forties 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:39.559 before they reach those levels. 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.520 Well, I mean, there's nothing more pathetic than dining out 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.599 on your early success in life. I think maybe what 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.120 shape me is that I didn't get diverted later on 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.680 by stuff that maybe diverts people. So, you know, I 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.040 met all the stars, and I had a parking space 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.000 with my name on it very early in my career. Thankfully, 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.760 I'm not a person if it motivated by stuff like that, 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.640 So the thrill wore off really quickly, and I think 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.720 that allowed me to work and create a fields because 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.480 I'm not looking for an invitation to your cocktail party, 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.840 and I'm not starstruck, and ultimately, I don't confuse myself 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:22.760 with talent, and I'm not there for social purposes. I'm 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:28.480 there because I'm passionate about making extraordinary entertainment and because 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.000 I like running really good businesses. So I think maybe 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.559 doing well early allowed me to not get diverted by 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:41.400 stuff that does. Sometimes people who have access to these 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.160 fields later on where they're like, wow, this is amazing, 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.319 Like I can meet so and so and they can 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.640 come to my house and like next thing, you know, 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.760 they're making horrible business decisions as a result. 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:54.680 Yes, we've seen a lot of those. 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:56.800 Well I'll give you an example actually, because it's a 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.480 fun one, go for it. So as a twentieth century Fox, 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.200 and we were signing a deal to make a movie 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.440 with Warren Batty. So we're signing up this deal and 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.640 it had been long negotiated, was very tough. His order 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.720 was bird Fields. He didn't have an agent, and he 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.800 was intimately engaged with his own business affairs, and there 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.560 were some contentious elements of the deal. But finally had 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.360 gotten done and it was ready to be signed, and 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.680 I get a call from someone on his team saying 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.680 we're going to have a closing and we want you 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.440 to be there to sign the documents. And I was like, 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.240 I don't really do that, like like you just signed 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.200 the document, like you know, we're closing. So it wasn't 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.880 like we're buying a house. But okay, so there he said, Nope, nope, 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.040 mister Baty wants to have a closing and it's very 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:43.800 important that you'd be there to sign the documents. He 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.280 will be there to sign the documents. So I'm like 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.599 picking up the pen, ready to sign, like completely not 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.240 understanding why we're there. Very happy to meet him. By 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.559 the way, and he says, wait, wait, you know before 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:58.160 we sign, there are a couple things in the contract 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.720 that really, like, you know, just like mean a lot 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.320 to me if we could change. And he had fully 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.080 contemplated that the three or four sticking points it ultimately 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.000 had been resolved that he really wanted in a different direction. 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.319 He figured if he could get into a room with anyone, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.120 they'd be so starstruck that they would just sign the documents. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.120 And I said to him, Oh, sorry, I thought we're 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.600 here to have like a ceremonial closing, like I'm not 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.000 here to renegotiate the deal with you, mister Batty, And 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:28.560 I left the room. That was the end of it. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:30.120 Did you ever change the points? 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.160 No? Then when you realized the gamp it didn't work, 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:35.160 they sent over the signed documents. 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.720 We did not have a certain very funny so New York. 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.640 Do you think you would have had the same level 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.520 of success if you had not been in and around 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.920 New York? Just New York give you an edge in 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:48.400 any way? 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:51.880 You know. I did work in California for five years 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.920 so and they were the right locations for those jobs. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.440 But when I had the opportionity to turn around and 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.040 build up a record company I was located in New York. 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.560 I was actually happy to come back, because the truth is, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:05.720 I was always more of a New York type person, 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.280 East Coast person in California when I was in the 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.920 movie business in the eighties and nineties and the Tellivision business, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.560 the home entertainment business. Speaking grammatically wasn't necessarily like a benefit. 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:22.520 You may recall, and my multiple degrees from elite Eastern schools, 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.520 that was not a benefit that was detriment. There was 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:27.760 there no doubt that New York was maybe a little 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.920 more congenial. But it's a great question because as you know, 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.840 I started ZMC and that led to Take two. And 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.520 I do think that only could have worked in New 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:42.360 York because we had access to capital and access to 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:46.360 counterparties and access to deals that I don't think would 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.840 have come our way outside of New York. 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.440 Your book, Becoming Ageless The Four Secrets to Looking and 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.880 Feeling Younger than Ever, was put out in twenty eighteen. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:01.160 Your four secrets are forever fuel eating for you, unlocking 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.800 inner strength, fitness three, bulletproofing the body, health and prevention, 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.240 and finding your soul connection. Community purpose? What motivated you 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.160 to write the book and seven years later, would you 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:13.760 amend any of the secrets? 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.400 What motivated me was people ask me all the time 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:23.320 how I managed to stay in reasonably good shape while 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.680 having an active professional life and an active personal life. 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.920 David Dizenko, who was at the time the editor in 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.440 chief of Men's Health, encouraged me to write the book 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.080 and published it through his label through Simon and Schuster. Ultimately, 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.080 I actually did it from a point of view being 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.200 of service to others. There are a number of things 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.160 I would amend. Probably the area that has evolved most 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.480 would be diet. So there's a whole bunch of diet 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.160 recommendations in the book, and they sort of err on 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.120 the side of ultra low carb and I'm no longer 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:57.920 of the view that that's a really good idea. 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.280 I like this. You're saying we can eat a lot 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.640 of carbs. Now this is the best news I have heard. 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.919 I'm saying you can eat a balanced diet that includes carbs, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.399 and that I was low CARBD for a while. I 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:12.119 wouldn't publish something that wasn't accurate, and what I found 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.600 was that it really didn't allow me to be my 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.760 best self in any way, but certainly not physically. Actually 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.360 went on a cycling trip when I was in sort 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.680 of really low carb diet. I kept cramping up because 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.359 you can't really retain enough water to avoid cramping if 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.040 you're ultra low carb. I defy you to find a 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.719 runner a marathon or who's truly low carb, it's virtually 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.879 impossible to do. In the late nineteen nineties, we were 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.879 in Jamaica together and we worked out, and I remember 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.040 at that workout saying, oh, this guy's pretty serious about 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:46.280 his workout, but you looked nothing like you do today 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.720 in terms of what you've done. So what was it 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.000 that sort of brought this about? What sort of coalesced 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:54.840 around the idea of I'm going to be in shape 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.320 and I'm going to wake This very important in my life. 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.879 If someone's avidly going to the gym and I acknowledge 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.960 some element of vanity, then they're just not being candid. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.080 So there is an element of wanting to look my best. 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.600 My view actually is it looking your best is a 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.840 sign of respect for yourself, and part of that is 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.480 being in reasonably good shape. In my case, working out 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.359 speaks to me in so many ways. First, because I 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.199 actually enjoy the process itself, and secondly because I like 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.159 the result, and then third and now these days, probably 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.840 most importantly, I work out with a huge fitness community 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.080 and these people who become my tribe. 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.840 And so do you work out every day or do 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:36.960 you take some days off? 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.240 Well, here's what one should do. If you work out avidly, 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.320 you probably ought to take one or two rest days 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.040 a week. And rest day does not mean like workout, 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:49.040 just less. Seriously, rest day means actually rest. In my case, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.560 I take a rest day somewhere between you know, zero 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.239 and one day a week, but certainly within a two 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.280 week span, I will take at least one rest day. 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.840 And I do have days where the workouts are pretty light, 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.840 but I sometimes work out twice a day, So in 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.399 any given week, I typically work out between eight and 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:06.280 ten times. 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.000 What kind of parallel do you see between your success 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.199 and business and exercise? How are the two related? 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.080 I think they're related in that I'm willing to defer 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.600 gratification and I can find pleasure in doing hard things. 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.240 Tell us one more piece. Tell us about your daily 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.600 practice of silent prayer and what that does for you 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.000 and those around you. 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.680 You know, I've engaged in a prayer practice for fourteen years, 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.199 and to be clear, it's not a particularly religious practice. 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.680 Although it is prayer, it's non denominational, and my prayer 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.600 practice takes three or four minutes. It doesn't depend on 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.720 a belief that there's anyone on the other end listening 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.560 to it, although there are days when I feel that 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.360 that might be the case, or also plenty of days 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:52.160 when I don't. The first part is to express gratitude 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.280 for all of the blessings of my life, both people 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:02.119 and things. The second is to ask for blessings for 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.359 people I care about and, with a little more difficulty, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.680 people I resent. Luckily, that's a very short list. Usually 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.359 there's no one on that list, but if there is 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.439 someone on the list, I do pray for that person 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.760 for good things to happen in that person. And then, finally, 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.160 the third part is to set an intention for the day, 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:22.360 which involves not trying to barrel through life, but rather 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.040 trying to go through life with a bit of grace 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.920 and trying to listen and find beauty in the day. 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:31.960 That's where my practice looks like many people. I think 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.159 they'll relate to the notion that when I wake up 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:36.000 first thing in the morning, my head can be full 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:41.359 of random thoughts or anxiety provoking thoughts, and I find 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.600 that the prayer practice will come and center me and 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.480 set me up for a better day. 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:49.880 So you talked about your community when you work out, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.000 Let's talk about friends. How many do you need and 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.119 how important is that to life? This is such a 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:01.400 personal decision. In my case, it all depends on how 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:05.040 you define a friend. In terms of truly intimate friends, 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.240 I actually have a lot, but that numbers I don't 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.960 know ten people, twenty people. In terms of people that 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:16.400 I would say I really care about and know about. 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.359 And connect with. In my case, that's a couple hundred people. 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.520 Bob as examples our friendship, like, we don't see each 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.040 other all that often. We probably get together a few 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.879 times a year, But every time we get together we 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:32.119 talk about real stuff, not superficial stuff. We actually know 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:36.560 one another's story, we have a long history. We connect, 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:41.119 and we leave one another's presence feeling energized and happy 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.200 that we saw one another. We just to say, even 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.000 though we don't see each other all that frequently, I 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.439