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Speaker 1: Pushkin, There's no way around it. Sometimes life is tough, awful.

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Speaker 1: Even bad things happen all the time, whether it's an

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Speaker 1: unanticipated health problem, a new relationship woe, or dire news

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Speaker 1: on the job. Sometimes these nasty circumstances result from our

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Speaker 1: own behaviors and choices, and sometimes they have nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with us whatsoever. Every Day people become the victims

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Speaker 1: of random accidents, natural disasters, or even unprovoked attacks. In

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Speaker 1: the aftermath of awful events like these, it's easy to

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Speaker 1: feel upset and broken, and when things are really bad,

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Speaker 1: you can even start wondering whether you'll be able to

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Speaker 1: pick up the pieces of your life again. It is

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Speaker 1: so fabulous to be back in Miami and this beautiful

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Speaker 1: zity and this beautiful weather with you beautiful This spring,

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Speaker 1: I was invited to host a discussion at the World

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Speaker 1: Happiness Summit in my and that gave me the chance

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Speaker 1: to interview someone who's dedicated her career to helping people

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Speaker 1: whose lives have been impacted in awful ways. I made

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Speaker 1: this amazing audience.

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Speaker 2: I was so excited to see. I am so excited

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Speaker 2: to be here.

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Speaker 1: This is psychiatrist doctor Sue Varma. Sue was the first

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Speaker 1: medical director at the World Trade Center Mental Health Program

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Speaker 1: at NYU, where she treated people caught up in the

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Speaker 1: attacks of nine to eleven. Sue has now gathered her

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Speaker 1: insights from decades of this kind of work into a

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Speaker 1: new book called Practical Optimism, The Art, Science, and Practice

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Speaker 1: of Exceptional well Being. In the book, Sue explores strategies

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Speaker 1: we can use to deal with the difficult chapters in life,

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Speaker 1: and her biggest recommendation is to adopt a particular form

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Speaker 1: of optimism, what she calls practical optimism.

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Speaker 2: To me, optimism has head to toe benefits, but at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, what optimism is is a mindset.

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Speaker 1: The world happiness of it, or WHASU as we call it,

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Speaker 1: is an amazing event. If you like this podcast, you

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Speaker 1: would have an Apse sloop Blast at OHASU. But with

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Speaker 1: so many speakers scheduled, I only had time to chat

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Speaker 1: with Sue about a tiny part of her work, so

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Speaker 1: I asked her to record a fuller interview just for you.

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Speaker 2: Nice to see you, my pleasure looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: So I got her back to join me on Zoom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm fine with whatever worked for you. I don't

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Speaker 2: mind doing like a full episode yeah.

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Speaker 1: And began at the beginning with her story of the

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Speaker 1: morning of September eleventh, two thousand and one.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, on nine eleven, I was a medical

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Speaker 2: student and I was working in a New York City hospital,

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Speaker 2: and I remember getting the call to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: discharge as many healthy ish people as you can, because

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Speaker 2: we need to make beds for people who are going

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Speaker 2: to be coming in who are injured. And we did that,

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Speaker 2: and we waited and waited and waited, and we just

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Speaker 2: simply didn't see the kind of numbers that we were

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Speaker 2: thinking because a death toll was so high.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember where you were when you first heard

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Speaker 1: about the towers, Like, were you already like at work

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Speaker 1: and saw it on TV or something?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I remember like we would come in at five am,

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Speaker 2: so I had already been there for like three plus

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Speaker 2: hours when we were hearing the news and seeing it

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Speaker 2: live as the towers were coming down as a plane crash,

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Speaker 2: So you know, it was freakish. And I remember, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, my sister in law was working downtown in

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Speaker 2: nine to eleven, so many friends and family members were

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Speaker 2: somehow down and around there, and we couldn't get through

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Speaker 2: to anybody like nobody was answering the phone, and we

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Speaker 2: did lose loved ones, friends. I mean, there were so

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Speaker 2: many stories of people getting caught in the dust cloud,

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Speaker 2: seeing people jump out of the buildings, getting trampled on,

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Speaker 2: and in the days after, myself and my colleagues we

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Speaker 2: volunteered in a variety of ways with first responders, with cleanup, rescue,

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Speaker 2: recovery at the Morgue, getting trauma training, you know, being

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Speaker 2: a New Yorker my whole life, like, this is a

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Speaker 2: place I identified with. But I think no matter where

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Speaker 2: you were in the country or in the world, I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of people felt somehow connected and traumatized rightfully,

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Speaker 2: So it was devastating. You know, when I think of trauma,

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Speaker 2: like you're never left the same. There's a you before

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Speaker 2: it and then there's a U after it. When I

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Speaker 2: think of mass disasters and terrorism, it's intended to chip

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Speaker 2: away at your morale and your sense of self and

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Speaker 2: your source of confidence and trust in the world. And

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Speaker 2: so what I saw in you know, this whole concept

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Speaker 2: of you know, New York strong, It really to me

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Speaker 2: came from this idea that great tragedy, not always, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes can bring out a sense of grit and toughness

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Speaker 2: and community. And it wouldn't be until years later, after

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Speaker 2: I'd finished my residency training at NYU and psychiatry to

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Speaker 2: be recruited for this role that I really didn't feel

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Speaker 2: prepared for, but felt so honored to be considered and

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Speaker 2: thought of for it. And you know, it was a

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Speaker 2: massive effort. It was a new program, and so when

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Speaker 2: I came on, you know, I remember the early days,

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Speaker 2: They're like, there's several hundred patients who are on our list.

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Speaker 2: You're going to be treating first responders and civilians. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, great, how many psychiatrists do we have?

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Speaker 2: Like six seven? They're like, no, it's just you. I joked.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, these are big shoes to fill and they're like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: you're bringing your own shoes because their own a shoes.

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Speaker 2: Like this is the first program of its kind, so

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Speaker 2: incredibly daunting, challenging, but eventually extremely meaningful and rewarding.

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Speaker 1: But you had, if I understand, I kind of someone

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Speaker 1: to look up to who kind of dealt with difficult

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Speaker 1: situations with optimism. I'm thinking about someone in your family

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Speaker 1: that you talked about in your book. Tell me the

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Speaker 1: story of the inspiration that your dad was giving you.

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Speaker 2: So you know, my dad still is an inspiration. Like

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Speaker 2: he's going to be close to ninety soon. And he

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Speaker 2: literally looks and acts and thinks twenty years younger, if

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Speaker 2: not more, and one of the kindest, sharpest and healthiest

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Speaker 2: people that I do. There's such resilience. You know. He

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Speaker 2: came from very little in India, and you know he's

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Speaker 2: born in late nineteen thirties and has seen so many

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Speaker 2: decades of trauma and tragedy and the things that I

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Speaker 2: take away from him, you know, he would always say

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Speaker 2: simple living and high thinking and this was a big

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Speaker 2: saying in my family that I always make fun of him.

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Speaker 2: I was like, but Dad, why are you always laughing?

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Speaker 2: Why are you always smiling? Like what is there to

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Speaker 2: be like, especially now, Like what is there to be

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Speaker 2: so grateful for? He's like, I mean you can laugh

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Speaker 2: or you can cry. I mean, you make the choice.

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Speaker 2: He's always sometimes like laughing at his own jokes in

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Speaker 2: his own head, telling himself stories, not in a delusional way,

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Speaker 2: just like laughing. And I was like, the Dad, you

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Speaker 2: didn't have electricity, didn't have running water. He's like, are

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Speaker 2: you talking about we had like dance parties and slumber

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Speaker 2: parties on the rooftop and camel rides and you know,

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Speaker 2: hurricane lamps. I'm like, that's because you had no electricity.

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Speaker 1: Dad.

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Speaker 2: He's like, life was great. Life was great. He's like,

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Speaker 2: how do you want to look at it? But like,

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Speaker 2: how do you want to tell your story? And so

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Speaker 2: you know, I just saw him this morning and he's

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Speaker 2: like standing there and he's like cutting fruit. That's how

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Speaker 2: like immigrant dads show love in the house. He's like,

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Speaker 2: what do you want to like, you know, candle up,

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Speaker 2: I'm cutting this, I'm cutting that. And I was like, wow,

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Speaker 2: you spend three hours cutting fruits for the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, he's retired now, he's like, you know, we've

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Speaker 2: got to spend our time some way. So I was

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Speaker 2: just thinking about him, and I'm like, you know that

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Speaker 2: saying like you don't want to just add years to

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Speaker 2: your life, you want to add life to your years.

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Speaker 2: And he is like the perfect example of that of

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Speaker 2: just always enjoying himself no matter where he is. He's

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Speaker 2: always reading new books, always coming back and listening to

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Speaker 2: podcasts and interviews and sharing things, so keeps himself intellectually stimulated.

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Speaker 1: So it seems like part of his story is that

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Speaker 1: even though he came from circumstances that might feel kind

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Speaker 1: of negative or feel sort of harsh to other folks

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Speaker 1: when they're listening to it, he seems like he's really

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Speaker 1: happy and optimistic, resilient. And this sort of seems to

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Speaker 1: fit with the question that you face when you saw

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Speaker 1: your patients. I mean, talk about the puzzle you sort

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Speaker 1: of experienced as you saw different patients reactions to the

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Speaker 1: trauma of nine to eleven.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so you know, first thing I want to say

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Speaker 2: is I never want anyone to feel less than if

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Speaker 2: they do end up experiencing mental health disorders, whether it's

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Speaker 2: related to an event or an incident or not. Most

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Speaker 2: people twenty thirty forty percent of folks in their life

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Speaker 2: will experience a mental health disorder, and seventy to eighty

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Speaker 2: percent of people will experience a life threatening event at

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Speaker 2: some point or another. Right, Well, what's interesting that when

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Speaker 2: it comes to post traumatic stress disorder that while eighty

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Speaker 2: percent of people will experience a life threatening event, only

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Speaker 2: about eight to ten percent of people will actually meet

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Speaker 2: criteria for post traumatic stress disorders. So what that says

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Speaker 2: to me is, Wow, right, like at least ninety percent

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Speaker 2: of people will have really bad things happen to them

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Speaker 2: in their life, big bad, life changing things, and yet

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Speaker 2: they will move on. We had a lot of patients

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Speaker 2: who were in the medical monitoring program but never met

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Speaker 2: criteria for anxiety depression PTSD. So our brain has a

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Speaker 2: great ability to bounce back, right, But to me, bouncing

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Speaker 2: back from adversity, that's only part of the equation. It's

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Speaker 2: important part, but it's only one part. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: help people thrive in the face of adversity, because which

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Speaker 2: one of us will escape this world, you know, without

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Speaker 2: anything bad ever happened to us, none of us. That

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Speaker 2: is where practical optimism came to me, is because I

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Speaker 2: would see these folks who a lot of these patients

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Speaker 2: who never became anxious or depressed, that they would still

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Speaker 2: come to our program and helping other folks. They bring

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Speaker 2: them to their appointments. In the aftermath of nine to eleven,

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Speaker 2: A lot of patients would have agoraphobia or avoidance of people, places, things,

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Speaker 2: reminders is a feature of PTSD, so with hypervigilance, insomnia

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Speaker 2: on nightmares, irritability, so they don't want to leave their house,

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Speaker 2: and we would have these other patients who are like,

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Speaker 2: I'm fine, I'll bring you, I'll take the subway with you,

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Speaker 2: because they were so afraid of there being another attack

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Speaker 2: in the days after, or just having triggers and reminders.

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Speaker 2: So these folks who never made it into my program,

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Speaker 2: I would see them in the hallways and I literally

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Speaker 2: would be like, what is your secret? And I've started

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Speaker 2: to see common threads of specific things that they did.

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Speaker 2: But resilience, in my mind, was always something you either

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Speaker 2: had or you didn't, and one feature of it was optimism,

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Speaker 2: but there were other features like altruism, social support, moral compass,

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Speaker 2: cognitive flexibility, but optimism was again one of these things

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Speaker 2: that you had or you didn't, and so was resilience.

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Speaker 2: But what about the rest of us? And it wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be until years later that there was a paper done

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Speaker 2: with researchers from UCLA and they said, you know, there

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Speaker 2: is a genetic linked toptimism. So that was my first question.

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Speaker 2: Is it genetic? Is it something you're born with? And

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Speaker 2: I love it when I find science to back up

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Speaker 2: things that I'm already thinking. And it said, yes, there is,

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Speaker 2: and it's this oxytocin receptor gene and if there's some

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Speaker 2: variation in it, you know, you may not be as optimistic.

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Speaker 2: And what did that mean? Well, if you're pessimistic or

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Speaker 2: have pessimistic tendencies and you're more likely to get depressed.

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Speaker 2: And then they looked at this gene and they said, so,

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Speaker 2: what is it actually code for? Right, It's a mindset, yes,

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Speaker 2: But in addition to being a mindset, it's also the

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Speaker 2: ability to regulate your emotions, to be able to ask

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Speaker 2: for help. And I was thinking about so many of

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Speaker 2: these things that in my therapy with patients. What is

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Speaker 2: it that I'm helping them with? And can I teach

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Speaker 2: people optimism? Can I teach them the things that optimists do?

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Speaker 2: How do we codify this? What does this look like

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Speaker 2: behaviorally in the world? And I found data in every

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Speaker 2: field of medicine talking about it. People who are optimistic

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Speaker 2: and do a brief optimistic intervention recover faster from colds

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Speaker 2: or have less colds or infections, or looking at exceptional longevity.

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Speaker 2: In this study in drama that I was a meta

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Speaker 2: analysis of over two hundred thousand people and said that

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Speaker 2: people who are optimistic live ten to fifteen percent longer,

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Speaker 2: and not just longer lives, but healthier lives. So the

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Speaker 2: concept of health span, because lifespan may be increasing, but

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Speaker 2: we're spending the last decade of our lives, especially women

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Speaker 2: with dementia, living in a nursing home or dependent on

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Speaker 2: other people. So I was like, head to toe optimists

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Speaker 2: have less anxiety and depression, thirty percent, less likelihood of

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Speaker 2: getting strokes or dying from heart attacks or really all

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Speaker 2: cause mortality. They're happier, They're forty percent more likely to

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Speaker 2: get a raise in the next year. They have more friendships,

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Speaker 2: stronger and longer bonds from childhood. They are happier in

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Speaker 2: their romantic relationships. I was like, why is no one

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Speaker 2: talking about this? This to me is the jackpot, This

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Speaker 2: is the well spring of health.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk a little bit about how

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Speaker 1: people tend to think about optimism because I think when

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Speaker 1: we hear the word optimism, we sometimes get it wrong.

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Speaker 1: So what is optimism?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think a lot of people I know

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Speaker 2: I did think of it as like this woo woo

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Speaker 2: thinking and just look on the bright side and everything

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Speaker 2: will work out. And that is definitely not optimism. That

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Speaker 2: is toxic positivity, asking someone to just get over something,

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Speaker 2: or look on the bride side. Optimism simply is the

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Speaker 2: tendency to have a positive outlook in an uncertain situation,

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Speaker 2: to kind of expect best possible outcome. But to me,

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Speaker 2: optimism by itself is only part of the equation because

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Speaker 2: it's like, i can have all the positive thinking in

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Speaker 2: the world, but if I'm not doing anything actionable and proactive,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be able to trans those positive

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Speaker 2: outlooks into positive outcomes. And so in my mind, I

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Speaker 2: needed something more. I needed skill set and a tool set.

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Speaker 2: And that is what practical optimism is, and that is

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Speaker 2: how practical optimism differs from optimism. So if you're in

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Speaker 2: that twenty five percent bucket that is born naturally with

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Speaker 2: a positive outlook, excellent, But the reality is that seventy

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Speaker 2: five percent of us are not skewed that way. You know,

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Speaker 2: we might be sort of somewhere in the middle or

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Speaker 2: maybe skeew more pessimistic. So optimism is having a very

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Speaker 2: favorable outlook, but by itself it's not sufficient.

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Speaker 1: So let's walk through this sort of updated version practical optimism.

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Speaker 1: How is that different?

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Speaker 2: So practical optimism helps you translate positive outlooks into positive

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Speaker 2: outcomes through action and practical optimism is a practice like

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Speaker 2: having a yoga practice, learning a new language, learning how

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Speaker 2: to ride a bike, learning a sport. Some days it's

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Speaker 2: five minutes, some days it's longer, but it does require

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Speaker 2: effort and work, and more importantly, it's a skill set.

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Speaker 2: And why that was so freeing to me is like,

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Speaker 2: we can all learn skills, and we all should learn skills,

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Speaker 2: and the practical optimism is a practice that requires you

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Speaker 2: to take chances and to put yourself out there in

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Speaker 2: the world, and to course correct and to continually learn

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Speaker 2: from mistakes.

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Speaker 1: It's time for a quick break, but we'll dive deeper

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Speaker 1: into Sue's idea of practical optimism when the Happiness Lab

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Speaker 1: returns in a moment. In her book Practical Optimism, The Art,

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Speaker 1: Science and Practice of Exceptional Wellbeing, psychiatrist doctor Sue Varma

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Speaker 1: explains that a major pillar of becoming more optimistic is

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Speaker 1: facing up to our emotions and processing them. So why

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Speaker 1: is that so important?

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Speaker 2: When people look at optimists, they want to dismiss their

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Speaker 2: happiness and say, well, they've never had anything bad happen

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Speaker 2: to them. Of course they're happy. And what people don't

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Speaker 2: realize is that optimists and pessimists both experience the same

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Speaker 2: number of life adversities. The difference is that optimists are

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Speaker 2: better able to cope with them. And the reason is

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Speaker 2: is because they are in real time. Processing their emotions

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Speaker 2: requires more effort and more energy to suppress your emotions.

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Speaker 2: And when you suppress your emotions, they say that your

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Speaker 2: body expresses what your mind cannot. And so a lot

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Speaker 2: of my patients will come to me and they'll say,

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Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm always sick, or I have

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Speaker 2: these headaches, or I have these unexplained aches and pains,

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Speaker 2: or ended up in the emergency room from panic attacks.

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Speaker 2: So processing your emotions is such a key pillar of

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Speaker 2: optimism because it says bad things are going to happen

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Speaker 2: to you. People are going to piss you off, and

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Speaker 2: what are you going to do about it? And a

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Speaker 2: lot of times people end up suppressing negative emotions, like

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Speaker 2: when we talk about any kind of addiction or unhealthy

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Speaker 2: behavior with substances, with anything, hours of binge watching, doom scrolling,

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Speaker 2: if it's meant as an avoidance of a procrastination, you

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Speaker 2: cannot escape negative emotions. They will come to haunt you

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Speaker 2: and That's why I say manage your emotions before they

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Speaker 2: manage you, because in some form or another, I see

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Speaker 2: so much suffering. You know, in my practice, a lot

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Speaker 2: of these people look to the world as if they

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Speaker 2: have it all together. In the realities, I know different

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Speaker 2: because I get an interesting inside perspective of what is

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Speaker 2: actually going on in their lives, and so in one

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Speaker 2: form or another, whether it's their relationship suffering, whether it's

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Speaker 2: their work, something is going to suffer. So we know

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Speaker 2: that people who deal with their emotions are less likely

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Speaker 2: to have all sorts of problems of heart disease. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's something called type deep personality. We've heard of type

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Speaker 2: A and type B and type DS. Is kind of

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Speaker 2: like angry, holding onto emotions, not expressing them. It takes

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Speaker 2: less energy to express it. I think so many people

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Speaker 2: are afraid of their emotions. They're afraid to be alone,

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Speaker 2: They're afraid to be alone with their thoughts. I know

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Speaker 2: people who will put the music on always in the

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Speaker 2: background because they don't want to be alone with their thoughts.

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Speaker 2: And they're like, what would that mean for me if

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Speaker 2: I actually had to confront how I feel.

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Speaker 1: Which I think is so sad, right, because our emotions

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Speaker 1: are this really useful signal about what's going on in

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Speaker 1: reality and what we need to do. Differently, I feel

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Speaker 1: like ignoring them. We do that really at our parallel

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Speaker 1: right totally.

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Speaker 2: And you know what it is an interesting Laurie, is

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Speaker 2: that I think a lot of times people are afraid

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Speaker 2: to confront emotions because it means that they will have

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Speaker 2: to make in their mind what they perceive it's massive

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Speaker 2: changes in their life and not ready to do that

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Speaker 2: because like if somebody confronted the fact, wow, I really

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Speaker 2: can't stand my partner and I've been resentful for so

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Speaker 2: many years, and if they were to confront it, it

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Speaker 2: would require something to change, and maybe they're afraid that

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Speaker 2: it would mean that this would be the end of

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Speaker 2: this relationship and then who would I be without it?

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Speaker 2: So I get it, I understand, But I would also

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Speaker 2: say that Rome wasn't built in a day, Like we

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Speaker 2: don't have to deconstruct our lives as a result of

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Speaker 2: figuring out what it means. Like I had a patient

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Speaker 2: the other day who was sharing with me, like a

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Speaker 2: lot of things that she was not happy about with

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Speaker 2: her partner, and I was like, what do you think

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Speaker 2: would be most helpful for me to say right now.

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Speaker 2: And she was like, well, I know what I don't

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Speaker 2: want you to say. I know I don't want you

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Speaker 2: to tell me to break up with it. She knows

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Speaker 2: on some level that the way things are not working,

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Speaker 2: but isn't ready to end the relationship. So that's just

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Speaker 2: one example. There's so many where somebody's like, I know

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Speaker 2: what I need to do in terms of changing my

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Speaker 2: life or changing a job. Like they know that if

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Speaker 2: they were to allow themselves to be enveloped by the

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Speaker 2: emotion either that they would be debilitated by it. And

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Speaker 2: I always say to patients, think of it is like

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Speaker 2: dresser drawers. I'm not saying let's open all of them

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Speaker 2: and take everything out and create an entire mass and

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Speaker 2: pile in the middle of your room. I'm saying, like,

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Speaker 2: let's just look at one drawer at a time and

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Speaker 2: I'll help you pack it a little bit neater, right,

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Speaker 2: But we're not saying everything, take out everything. And because

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Speaker 2: I think there's a fear of being overwhelmed.

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Speaker 1: And I think that fear of being overwhelmed can also

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Speaker 1: involve not just being overwhelmed by the circumstances. You need

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Speaker 1: to change but this worry that you might be literally

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed by the emotion itself. Yeah, and that's one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons I love your book. You share this sort

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Speaker 1: of handy rhyming catchphrase which I love for how we

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Speaker 1: can begin processing our emotions. What is this catchphrase?

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Speaker 2: So it's name it, flame it, tame it, and reframe it.

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Speaker 2: And the naming part is just name the antecedent for

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Speaker 2: the trigger, just being aware of it. And there's so

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Speaker 2: much evidence that having emotional and granularity, just like understanding,

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Speaker 2: putting words to what you're feeling and what caused the trigger.

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Speaker 2: You know, when we look at people who have suicidal thinking,

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Speaker 2: as weird as this may sound, we feel that patients

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Speaker 2: who have understanding of what the trigger was probably have

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Speaker 2: a higher chance of recovery and prognosis because they can

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Speaker 2: tie it back to a specific event. And if you

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Speaker 2: can do that, then you're more likely to be able

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Speaker 2: to address the underlying causes and prevent them from happening again.

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Speaker 2: So naming your trigger and antecedents and knowing what they

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Speaker 2: are is really important.

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Speaker 1: And so next up is claim it. What does it

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Speaker 1: mean to claim our emotions? So when I say claim

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Speaker 1: your emotions where in your body do you feel them.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times people will say that I have insomnia,

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Speaker 1: or I have frequent urination or frequent bowel movements, or

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Speaker 1: I have headaches, or I have a lot of tension

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Speaker 1: in my neck and my shoulders. So I say that

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Speaker 1: the body expresses what the mind cannot, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of times our painful or forbidden emotions shows up physical symptoms.

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Speaker 1: Another reason you talk about the importance of claiming emotions

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Speaker 1: is it allows us to think about what we might

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Speaker 1: call our forbidden emotions. What are forbidden emotions?

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Speaker 2: So I think for some people, women, especially anger might

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Speaker 2: be really forbidden. I have so many patients that I

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Speaker 2: work with that end up crying when they're angry. It's

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Speaker 2: scary because either I think that they're afraid of pushing

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Speaker 2: the other person way, or that it means confronting or

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Speaker 2: challenging the person. And then what, I think we've all

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Speaker 2: created stories in our head about if I were to

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Speaker 2: say something to someone, They're not going to like it,

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Speaker 2: they're going to leave me, they're going to be mad

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Speaker 2: at me, and then what And I think it's helpful

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Speaker 2: to be like okay, yeah, and then what there's a

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Speaker 2: statistic that says that eighty five percent of the time

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Speaker 2: the things that we worry about never actually happen, and

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Speaker 2: the fifteen percent of time that they do, we're better

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Speaker 2: equipped to handle it than we think. So I think

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Speaker 2: that's really important to just keep in mind. So that's

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Speaker 2: claiming our emotions. But next up is that we have

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Speaker 2: to tame our emotions. And one way that you suggest

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Speaker 2: doing this is to really try to tame our ruminative loops.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean by ruminative loops? I think I

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Speaker 2: know what you mean. I think I've experienced this myself. First, yes,

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Speaker 2: I definitely have experienced ruminative loops. And it's just like

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Speaker 2: you're going in circles with the same thought, and what

431
00:19:59,636 --> 00:20:02,516
Speaker 2: that does is end up creating powerlessness, and it strips

432
00:20:02,556 --> 00:20:04,876
Speaker 2: us away of our agency because you're repeating the same

433
00:20:04,876 --> 00:20:09,276
Speaker 2: emotion what if, or you're catastrophizing assuming the worst case scenario,

434
00:20:09,516 --> 00:20:12,716
Speaker 2: or you're projecting. But taming your emotions is like short

435
00:20:12,756 --> 00:20:15,796
Speaker 2: circuiting and fading a break in that and saying, all right,

436
00:20:16,276 --> 00:20:19,516
Speaker 2: I am feeling angry, anxious, helpless, what am I going

437
00:20:19,556 --> 00:20:21,676
Speaker 2: to do to self soothe? And so taming is really

438
00:20:21,716 --> 00:20:24,756
Speaker 2: about soothing, And what I say is pick an activity

439
00:20:24,916 --> 00:20:27,956
Speaker 2: that's not going to create a negative habit on its own.

440
00:20:28,036 --> 00:20:30,596
Speaker 2: So somebody may say a glass of wine helps me soothe, Right,

441
00:20:30,716 --> 00:20:32,756
Speaker 2: Then what happens when you need two or three or

442
00:20:32,796 --> 00:20:34,716
Speaker 2: four to have the same effect, Right, So we don't

443
00:20:34,756 --> 00:20:36,836
Speaker 2: want the soothing activity to take on a life of

444
00:20:36,876 --> 00:20:38,956
Speaker 2: its own. So I would say, pick something that seems

445
00:20:38,996 --> 00:20:41,636
Speaker 2: relatively healthy ish. Can you make a five minute phone

446
00:20:41,676 --> 00:20:43,596
Speaker 2: call to a friend. Can you text someone that you

447
00:20:43,716 --> 00:20:45,836
Speaker 2: know is going to be supportive and helpful, But you

448
00:20:45,876 --> 00:20:48,516
Speaker 2: do a one minute meditation in place wherever you are,

449
00:20:48,636 --> 00:20:51,356
Speaker 2: just closing your eyes and taking a deep breath. For me,

450
00:20:52,036 --> 00:20:55,636
Speaker 2: walking is one of the most soothing activities. And I

451
00:20:55,676 --> 00:20:58,396
Speaker 2: was fascinated by the science of walking that there's something

452
00:20:58,396 --> 00:21:01,316
Speaker 2: about when you're walking, your eyes have to track what's

453
00:21:01,316 --> 00:21:02,556
Speaker 2: out there in the world, Like so you want to

454
00:21:02,556 --> 00:21:04,716
Speaker 2: get hit by a car, and all of that forces

455
00:21:04,756 --> 00:21:07,076
Speaker 2: you those eye movements to get out of your own head.

456
00:21:07,156 --> 00:21:09,076
Speaker 2: So going for a walk or any kind of exit

457
00:21:09,276 --> 00:21:11,236
Speaker 2: size just gets you out of your own head. It

458
00:21:11,236 --> 00:21:13,596
Speaker 2: gets you out of routine. So whatever you're capable of doing,

459
00:21:13,636 --> 00:21:15,116
Speaker 2: it could be a five minute stretch. So we just

460
00:21:15,156 --> 00:21:16,836
Speaker 2: want to keep it simple and lower the bar. But

461
00:21:16,876 --> 00:21:18,956
Speaker 2: what's soothing for you? That's the big take home point.

462
00:21:19,116 --> 00:21:21,636
Speaker 1: You also mentioned this other strategy that I'm totally going

463
00:21:21,676 --> 00:21:23,996
Speaker 1: to adopt myself, which is this idea of emptying your

464
00:21:24,036 --> 00:21:25,356
Speaker 1: emotional spam folder.

465
00:21:25,756 --> 00:21:28,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is this for me? I do that in journaling,

466
00:21:28,116 --> 00:21:30,236
Speaker 2: and I think that there's so much value and there's

467
00:21:30,236 --> 00:21:33,836
Speaker 2: so much science behind two ten minute journaling sessions, and

468
00:21:34,076 --> 00:21:36,836
Speaker 2: there's no one right way to journal what works for you,

469
00:21:36,876 --> 00:21:40,036
Speaker 2: Like sometimes it's literally for me reiterating what happened in

470
00:21:40,076 --> 00:21:41,916
Speaker 2: the day, and it's getting it out of your head

471
00:21:41,916 --> 00:21:43,756
Speaker 2: and putting it on paper, and you're like, all right,

472
00:21:43,796 --> 00:21:45,996
Speaker 2: that's it. I'm done. You know, when I was a

473
00:21:46,036 --> 00:21:48,516
Speaker 2: patient and going for my own therapy, I learned a

474
00:21:48,556 --> 00:21:51,556
Speaker 2: technique called worry journaling. And somebody may say, well, that

475
00:21:51,596 --> 00:21:55,196
Speaker 2: seems counterintuitive. Why would you keep a journal of your worries?

476
00:21:55,436 --> 00:21:57,236
Speaker 2: And what I learned is that when you write the

477
00:21:57,276 --> 00:21:58,876
Speaker 2: same thing over and over again, you start to see

478
00:21:58,876 --> 00:22:01,156
Speaker 2: that there's a trend in your worries. There's a common theme.

479
00:22:01,556 --> 00:22:04,116
Speaker 2: You're worried about the same types of things, and that

480
00:22:04,156 --> 00:22:06,396
Speaker 2: the things that you're worried about are not actually happening.

481
00:22:06,836 --> 00:22:09,636
Speaker 2: And if you're willing to write down how you handled it,

482
00:22:09,836 --> 00:22:12,356
Speaker 2: that creates a sense of mastery as well. So putting

483
00:22:12,356 --> 00:22:14,436
Speaker 2: it on paper is one way to unload your worry

484
00:22:14,476 --> 00:22:15,116
Speaker 2: spam folder.

485
00:22:15,556 --> 00:22:18,236
Speaker 1: And so that's a nice transition to the last of

486
00:22:18,236 --> 00:22:21,596
Speaker 1: our four tips for kind processing our emotions, We need

487
00:22:21,636 --> 00:22:25,276
Speaker 1: to reframe them. What is reframing our emotions? Why can

488
00:22:25,356 --> 00:22:26,476
Speaker 1: it be so important?

489
00:22:26,756 --> 00:22:30,356
Speaker 2: So reframing is one of the best techniques to try

490
00:22:30,356 --> 00:22:33,396
Speaker 2: to put a different spin on a negative situation that happened.

491
00:22:33,556 --> 00:22:35,076
Speaker 2: And I just want to say that there are some

492
00:22:35,676 --> 00:22:37,716
Speaker 2: negative things that happen to you that there will be

493
00:22:37,756 --> 00:22:40,036
Speaker 2: no positive spin. They will be no silver lining, And

494
00:22:40,076 --> 00:22:42,076
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent get that. But other than the

495
00:22:42,156 --> 00:22:45,156
Speaker 2: sort of big tragedies, ask yourself, and sometimes it may

496
00:22:45,156 --> 00:22:47,916
Speaker 2: not be until you've created some distance between you and

497
00:22:47,956 --> 00:22:50,796
Speaker 2: this bad thing that happened. But reframing allows us to

498
00:22:50,996 --> 00:22:53,196
Speaker 2: take back some control and says, you know what, I'm

499
00:22:53,236 --> 00:22:55,556
Speaker 2: not going to allow myself to be debilitated by this.

500
00:22:55,756 --> 00:22:57,876
Speaker 2: And one way might say, is there another way for

501
00:22:57,916 --> 00:23:00,156
Speaker 2: me to look at the situation? Could I look at

502
00:23:00,156 --> 00:23:03,036
Speaker 2: it from another person's point of view? Could I understand

503
00:23:03,076 --> 00:23:05,796
Speaker 2: it in the context of the larger plan for my life.

504
00:23:05,836 --> 00:23:08,276
Speaker 2: So sometimes it might be a rejection, and there's this

505
00:23:08,356 --> 00:23:11,676
Speaker 2: catchy thing rejection is really just redirection. There were so

506
00:23:11,716 --> 00:23:13,676
Speaker 2: many things that I wanted to do at certain times

507
00:23:13,676 --> 00:23:16,276
Speaker 2: in my life, and I am glad in retrospect that

508
00:23:16,316 --> 00:23:18,676
Speaker 2: they didn't happen at that time, because for any number

509
00:23:18,716 --> 00:23:20,476
Speaker 2: of reasons, I might have thought I was ready, or

510
00:23:20,476 --> 00:23:22,836
Speaker 2: maybe I gained more experience later on, or I was

511
00:23:22,876 --> 00:23:25,436
Speaker 2: better equipped to handle the challenge. And you could say, well,

512
00:23:25,436 --> 00:23:27,676
Speaker 2: that's just you trying to be an optimist, and I'd say, sure,

513
00:23:27,756 --> 00:23:29,876
Speaker 2: But the point is I couldn't control it. I couldn't

514
00:23:29,956 --> 00:23:32,756
Speaker 2: change it, so why not reframe it in a way

515
00:23:32,956 --> 00:23:35,236
Speaker 2: that puts me at ease. So reframing and really just

516
00:23:35,436 --> 00:23:38,476
Speaker 2: is taking back control and it's saying I don't have

517
00:23:38,596 --> 00:23:40,876
Speaker 2: to choose to allow myself to be a victim of

518
00:23:40,876 --> 00:23:44,316
Speaker 2: this situation. Reframing is one of the most powerful techniques

519
00:23:44,436 --> 00:23:47,476
Speaker 2: used in trauma processing therapy. But I recognized, you know,

520
00:23:47,476 --> 00:23:50,396
Speaker 2: I had nine to eleven survivor patients and friends and

521
00:23:50,436 --> 00:23:52,916
Speaker 2: they would say, you know, when we would talk about reframing,

522
00:23:52,916 --> 00:23:54,676
Speaker 2: and they're like, you know, I don't see there's no

523
00:23:54,716 --> 00:23:57,316
Speaker 2: silver lining, and I'd say absolutely, And it would be

524
00:23:57,356 --> 00:23:59,836
Speaker 2: later on that I would recognize that there are some

525
00:23:59,916 --> 00:24:02,716
Speaker 2: things that there'll be no positive way to put a

526
00:24:02,756 --> 00:24:05,596
Speaker 2: spin on it. And then I realized from my Eastern upbringing,

527
00:24:05,636 --> 00:24:07,476
Speaker 2: something my parents would say to me is that is

528
00:24:07,476 --> 00:24:10,756
Speaker 2: this a problem to be solved or a truth to

529
00:24:10,796 --> 00:24:14,156
Speaker 2: be accepted? And sometimes you cannot reframe something, and then

530
00:24:14,196 --> 00:24:16,916
Speaker 2: it just becomes about acceptance. And I think, you know,

531
00:24:16,956 --> 00:24:21,916
Speaker 2: my Western upbringing would have me believe that acceptance was resignation, surrender, passive,

532
00:24:22,156 --> 00:24:25,116
Speaker 2: meek and weak. Eastern upbringing says, no, acceptance is a

533
00:24:25,236 --> 00:24:27,556
Speaker 2: very strong place to be when you don't have a choice.

534
00:24:27,676 --> 00:24:29,996
Speaker 1: We need to take another quick break. But when we return,

535
00:24:30,236 --> 00:24:33,156
Speaker 1: Sue will explain how she's been inspired by the Japanese

536
00:24:33,236 --> 00:24:36,996
Speaker 1: art form of kin sugi, taking broken pottery pieces and

537
00:24:37,036 --> 00:24:40,796
Speaker 1: reconstructing them to be even more beautiful than an undamaged face.

538
00:24:41,196 --> 00:24:51,476
Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab will be right back. Treating people caught

539
00:24:51,516 --> 00:24:53,516
Speaker 1: up in the destruction of the World Trade Center had

540
00:24:53,556 --> 00:24:56,716
Speaker 1: a huge impact on doctor Sue Varmer's career. Of course,

541
00:24:56,956 --> 00:25:00,476
Speaker 1: doctor patient confidentiality prevents Sue from talking in detail about

542
00:25:00,516 --> 00:25:03,116
Speaker 1: the specific cases she treated. But she wrote about one

543
00:25:03,156 --> 00:25:06,516
Speaker 1: inspiring person who escaped the collapsing towers, a woman that

544
00:25:06,556 --> 00:25:07,716
Speaker 1: Sue calls Shelley.

545
00:25:08,276 --> 00:25:10,876
Speaker 2: So, you know, one of the first patients I worked with,

546
00:25:11,036 --> 00:25:13,396
Speaker 2: and I had imposter syndrome. I was like, this is

547
00:25:13,476 --> 00:25:15,996
Speaker 2: like a big job, and like, how am I qualified

548
00:25:15,996 --> 00:25:18,236
Speaker 2: to be here? And I was scared, and I was like,

549
00:25:18,276 --> 00:25:20,636
Speaker 2: how am I going to help Shelley? Because Shelley in

550
00:25:20,716 --> 00:25:23,316
Speaker 2: some ways represented a lot of the themes that I

551
00:25:23,436 --> 00:25:26,636
Speaker 2: was seeing, which was these amazing people, many of them

552
00:25:26,636 --> 00:25:29,316
Speaker 2: were high achievers, many of them leaders in their community.

553
00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:33,796
Speaker 2: You know, Shelley's a mom and just like a very honest, hardworking,

554
00:25:34,116 --> 00:25:36,316
Speaker 2: strong human being. And you know, she was someone who

555
00:25:36,396 --> 00:25:39,236
Speaker 2: considered herself an optimist. Go get her. She's like, I'm

556
00:25:39,276 --> 00:25:42,036
Speaker 2: the one always doing the five k races and throwing

557
00:25:42,036 --> 00:25:45,116
Speaker 2: the company get togethers, and so I never saw that

558
00:25:45,156 --> 00:25:48,036
Speaker 2: something could break my spirit. And that was literally what

559
00:25:48,116 --> 00:25:50,076
Speaker 2: she said. She was like, you know, on nine to eleven,

560
00:25:50,156 --> 00:25:52,116
Speaker 2: here I am. I'm getting trampled, I'm getting caught in

561
00:25:52,156 --> 00:25:54,316
Speaker 2: the dust clouds. I'm wearing heels that day. I love

562
00:25:54,396 --> 00:25:56,636
Speaker 2: to look cute when I come to work, and the

563
00:25:56,716 --> 00:25:59,556
Speaker 2: heel broke and then I'm walking barefoot and I'm asking

564
00:25:59,596 --> 00:26:01,476
Speaker 2: for help. The next thing, you know, like the dust cloud,

565
00:26:01,556 --> 00:26:04,876
Speaker 2: like just like there's no ways to even put words

566
00:26:04,916 --> 00:26:07,756
Speaker 2: on what happened that day. You go to work thinking

567
00:26:07,796 --> 00:26:11,076
Speaker 2: this is just a regular day, and then you're seeing

568
00:26:11,116 --> 00:26:14,396
Speaker 2: people die in front of you everywhere. And she was like,

569
00:26:14,756 --> 00:26:17,076
Speaker 2: I couldn't get home that day and my husband couldn't

570
00:26:17,076 --> 00:26:18,836
Speaker 2: reach me. Like she wasn't able to go back to

571
00:26:18,876 --> 00:26:21,316
Speaker 2: work in that office, and eventually when she did, she

572
00:26:21,356 --> 00:26:23,956
Speaker 2: never took a day off and never asked for help.

573
00:26:24,036 --> 00:26:26,356
Speaker 2: And it was really like only through the program that

574
00:26:26,676 --> 00:26:28,556
Speaker 2: a lot of people were told that they're going there

575
00:26:28,556 --> 00:26:32,196
Speaker 2: for physical reasons for checking up like asthma, GI problems,

576
00:26:32,316 --> 00:26:34,596
Speaker 2: and then they got mental health screenings. She wasn't even

577
00:26:34,676 --> 00:26:37,116
Speaker 2: thinking that, like I need to get help. And in

578
00:26:37,156 --> 00:26:40,196
Speaker 2: her story, as she's unfolding it, she's just start crying

579
00:26:40,196 --> 00:26:41,436
Speaker 2: and she like, I don't cry in front of people,

580
00:26:41,436 --> 00:26:43,276
Speaker 2: and I don't think I've ever cried about this in

581
00:26:43,276 --> 00:26:46,036
Speaker 2: front of anyone before. And you know, at the end,

582
00:26:46,116 --> 00:26:48,316
Speaker 2: she said, I feel broken. You know, that was one

583
00:26:48,316 --> 00:26:50,196
Speaker 2: of the hardest things to hear because I was like,

584
00:26:50,676 --> 00:26:54,876
Speaker 2: what role do I possibly even play in helping you

585
00:26:55,116 --> 00:26:58,476
Speaker 2: because everything you're saying to me is one thousand percent legitimate.

586
00:26:58,636 --> 00:27:00,716
Speaker 2: There's no silver lining. How do I get you to reframe?

587
00:27:00,756 --> 00:27:05,476
Speaker 2: There's no positive spin. So the theme was the brokenness

588
00:27:05,516 --> 00:27:08,756
Speaker 2: that Shelley was sharing, and it made me think of

589
00:27:08,876 --> 00:27:13,436
Speaker 2: this art of broken ceramics kinsugi in Japanese culture, which

590
00:27:13,476 --> 00:27:18,876
Speaker 2: is preparing something to beyond its original form. It's restoring it,

591
00:27:18,916 --> 00:27:22,636
Speaker 2: but bringing upon a level of beauty that is like

592
00:27:22,676 --> 00:27:25,196
Speaker 2: the two point zero version in kinsugi, like you're putting

593
00:27:25,196 --> 00:27:27,716
Speaker 2: these broken ceramic pieces together with the golden glue, a

594
00:27:27,716 --> 00:27:30,436
Speaker 2: golden lacquer, and it ends up being even more majestic

595
00:27:30,516 --> 00:27:33,356
Speaker 2: and expensive and valuable. And so when she said that,

596
00:27:33,436 --> 00:27:35,236
Speaker 2: it reminded me because I remember what I was in

597
00:27:35,276 --> 00:27:38,916
Speaker 2: therapy and I saw this art form in my therapist's office.

598
00:27:38,916 --> 00:27:40,356
Speaker 2: It's the thing that my dad had from one of

599
00:27:40,356 --> 00:27:43,316
Speaker 2: his trips many years ago in Japan. I thought to myself,

600
00:27:43,436 --> 00:27:46,316
Speaker 2: is this an opportunity? Could tragedy ever be an opportunity

601
00:27:46,316 --> 00:27:49,516
Speaker 2: for us to come back stronger? And so then became

602
00:27:49,556 --> 00:27:51,596
Speaker 2: the journey. I think it was a parallel journey of

603
00:27:51,956 --> 00:27:55,156
Speaker 2: me becoming a therapist. I think learning so much from

604
00:27:55,156 --> 00:27:56,956
Speaker 2: my patients and just going home and saying, you know what,

605
00:27:57,076 --> 00:27:59,196
Speaker 2: like I'm on this ride with them, for better or

606
00:27:59,276 --> 00:28:01,876
Speaker 2: or worse, and we're going to get through this together.

607
00:28:02,036 --> 00:28:03,356
Speaker 2: I don't have all the answers, and I don't have

608
00:28:03,396 --> 00:28:05,596
Speaker 2: them right now. We're going to co create and co

609
00:28:05,596 --> 00:28:08,996
Speaker 2: construct a new reality that hopefully will be just as good.

610
00:28:09,116 --> 00:28:10,916
Speaker 2: It's never going to be the same. I get it

611
00:28:11,036 --> 00:28:13,516
Speaker 2: that Shelley who wore the heels is the Shelley that

612
00:28:13,636 --> 00:28:15,996
Speaker 2: now wear sneakers or if she wears kitten heels, and

613
00:28:15,996 --> 00:28:18,076
Speaker 2: she brings like a book bag duffel bag and had

614
00:28:18,076 --> 00:28:20,956
Speaker 2: a change of clothes, always anticipating in a way, like

615
00:28:21,036 --> 00:28:22,956
Speaker 2: what if this were to ever happen again. So in

616
00:28:22,996 --> 00:28:25,076
Speaker 2: some ways she was right, she was never going to

617
00:28:25,116 --> 00:28:28,636
Speaker 2: be that person. But after the treatment ended, you know,

618
00:28:28,756 --> 00:28:30,636
Speaker 2: I sat with her and her husband and he's like,

619
00:28:30,636 --> 00:28:32,796
Speaker 2: I used to be the warrior in the relationship, and

620
00:28:33,156 --> 00:28:35,956
Speaker 2: like I finally have my wife back, and she's able

621
00:28:35,956 --> 00:28:37,676
Speaker 2: to function and she was able to ask for help.

622
00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:40,956
Speaker 2: But it's returning back to a person that sense of

623
00:28:41,036 --> 00:28:43,436
Speaker 2: self that they lost, of like that ability of I

624
00:28:43,556 --> 00:28:43,996
Speaker 2: can do this.

625
00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:46,636
Speaker 1: It seems like going through trauma, so many people that

626
00:28:46,676 --> 00:28:48,956
Speaker 1: you've worked with went through this idea of the sense

627
00:28:48,956 --> 00:28:51,716
Speaker 1: of inner brokenness, and you talked about this as the

628
00:28:51,756 --> 00:28:54,876
Speaker 1: effect that trauma has had on people's self efficacy. What

629
00:28:54,956 --> 00:28:56,996
Speaker 1: is self efficacy and why is it so important for

630
00:28:57,076 --> 00:28:57,636
Speaker 1: mental health?

631
00:28:57,756 --> 00:29:00,956
Speaker 2: Self efficacy is your confidence in your own abilities. And

632
00:29:00,956 --> 00:29:03,116
Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting because it's not really saying

633
00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:05,476
Speaker 2: anything about your actual abilities. And you know that saying

634
00:29:05,476 --> 00:29:07,676
Speaker 2: like faked till you make it. I think there is

635
00:29:07,716 --> 00:29:09,916
Speaker 2: some truth to it, but not the realities. Nobody is

636
00:29:09,956 --> 00:29:12,716
Speaker 2: saying completely faked. Like you need to do the work,

637
00:29:12,756 --> 00:29:15,556
Speaker 2: whatever that work is, if it's training to become a musician,

638
00:29:15,636 --> 00:29:18,116
Speaker 2: like you need to train, but you also have to

639
00:29:18,156 --> 00:29:20,756
Speaker 2: have faith and confidence in your ability to achieve the

640
00:29:20,876 --> 00:29:23,676
Speaker 2: thing that you're working towards. So there's two aspects of it.

641
00:29:23,716 --> 00:29:27,316
Speaker 2: One is continuing to push yourself to develop that ability,

642
00:29:27,396 --> 00:29:29,916
Speaker 2: but then eventually believing that it is going to come

643
00:29:29,956 --> 00:29:33,636
Speaker 2: to fruition. And we see there's so much work. Like

644
00:29:33,716 --> 00:29:36,236
Speaker 2: Albert Bandura had done a lot of study on self efficacy,

645
00:29:36,236 --> 00:29:39,956
Speaker 2: and he says that this sense of confidence comes from

646
00:29:40,196 --> 00:29:44,676
Speaker 2: your own personal experience, from vicarious learning, looking at role models,

647
00:29:44,876 --> 00:29:47,956
Speaker 2: getting feedback from trusted people, and then also just a

648
00:29:48,036 --> 00:29:50,596
Speaker 2: sense of how does it make you feel your own

649
00:29:50,636 --> 00:29:51,916
Speaker 2: physiological feedback.

650
00:29:52,036 --> 00:29:56,076
Speaker 1: It also seems like self efficacy involves some specific expectations,

651
00:29:56,076 --> 00:29:59,916
Speaker 1: both expectations about ourselves and outside ourselves. Explain what the

652
00:29:59,956 --> 00:30:02,596
Speaker 1: research shows about that. Yes, there's two features to it.

653
00:30:02,676 --> 00:30:04,956
Speaker 2: One is just the belief that you yourself have the

654
00:30:04,996 --> 00:30:07,716
Speaker 2: capacity to achieve this and then the fact that this

655
00:30:07,916 --> 00:30:10,916
Speaker 2: outcome is achievable. Period. So I'm just going to use

656
00:30:10,956 --> 00:30:13,116
Speaker 2: weight loss as an example. Somebody may say I'm doing

657
00:30:13,196 --> 00:30:15,276
Speaker 2: all the things I know, like I know what I

658
00:30:15,356 --> 00:30:17,076
Speaker 2: need to do, and that could be anything like if

659
00:30:17,076 --> 00:30:18,996
Speaker 2: somebody said I'm trying to put on more muscle, I

660
00:30:19,036 --> 00:30:20,836
Speaker 2: need to eat more protein. I know what I need

661
00:30:20,876 --> 00:30:22,916
Speaker 2: to do if I need to wake up like better

662
00:30:22,956 --> 00:30:26,636
Speaker 2: sleep hygiene. So intellectually knowing what the steps are, that's

663
00:30:26,676 --> 00:30:29,676
Speaker 2: a part of it. Number two, you carrying it out.

664
00:30:30,036 --> 00:30:33,876
Speaker 2: But number three, will my work in the end be impactful?

665
00:30:34,076 --> 00:30:36,516
Speaker 2: Will I see results? Because there'll be people who say

666
00:30:36,556 --> 00:30:39,276
Speaker 2: I'm still not seeing the result. Sometimes the results are

667
00:30:39,276 --> 00:30:41,036
Speaker 2: not in your hand. You may say I'm working really

668
00:30:41,076 --> 00:30:44,276
Speaker 2: hard at work for promotion. I know what I need

669
00:30:44,316 --> 00:30:47,636
Speaker 2: to do, but I'm dealing in a very stressful work

670
00:30:47,716 --> 00:30:51,236
Speaker 2: environment that feels unfair, that feels biased, that feels like

671
00:30:51,276 --> 00:30:53,876
Speaker 2: I'm walking an uphill battle. So I think that there

672
00:30:53,916 --> 00:30:56,316
Speaker 2: are two parts that you need to feel efficacious, because

673
00:30:56,316 --> 00:30:59,476
Speaker 2: your environment lends itself to making you feel that way.

674
00:30:59,476 --> 00:31:01,676
Speaker 2: And the environment needs to be supportive because you can

675
00:31:01,716 --> 00:31:04,396
Speaker 2: do all you want. But if the system feels rigged

676
00:31:04,396 --> 00:31:05,836
Speaker 2: against you, and again, it could be a matter of

677
00:31:05,836 --> 00:31:07,996
Speaker 2: perception or it could be reality. So we have to

678
00:31:08,076 --> 00:31:11,196
Speaker 2: entertain both. Always try to ask my patients. I said, listen,

679
00:31:11,196 --> 00:31:13,116
Speaker 2: I just want to get a better sense of your work.

680
00:31:13,116 --> 00:31:15,276
Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit about your boss's personality, give

681
00:31:15,316 --> 00:31:17,556
Speaker 2: me a sense of the interactions. How do you feel?

682
00:31:17,636 --> 00:31:19,996
Speaker 2: How do your colleagues feel about this? So I never

683
00:31:20,036 --> 00:31:23,276
Speaker 2: want to deny that reality if somebody says I'm trying,

684
00:31:23,356 --> 00:31:25,316
Speaker 2: I am doing my best and things are still not

685
00:31:25,356 --> 00:31:25,916
Speaker 2: working for me.

686
00:31:26,036 --> 00:31:28,476
Speaker 1: But both of those expectations seem to contribute to the

687
00:31:28,476 --> 00:31:31,916
Speaker 1: benefits of experiencing self efficacy. What happens when it feels

688
00:31:31,956 --> 00:31:34,396
Speaker 1: like we're not able to do what we really want

689
00:31:34,396 --> 00:31:36,636
Speaker 1: to do. What happens when we're not feeling so effective?

690
00:31:36,756 --> 00:31:41,476
Speaker 2: So I think we end up feeling demoralized disenchanted, disenfranchised,

691
00:31:41,476 --> 00:31:44,196
Speaker 2: and we give up. And it's natural to think that

692
00:31:44,196 --> 00:31:45,636
Speaker 2: you're going to fail, but what you really need to

693
00:31:45,676 --> 00:31:47,996
Speaker 2: be reminded of is that you can rise up again.

694
00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:51,476
Speaker 2: And so to me, proficiency is about reminding people at

695
00:31:51,516 --> 00:31:54,876
Speaker 2: their very core of their capability. And like they did

696
00:31:54,916 --> 00:31:57,316
Speaker 2: experiments with athletes and they're told, you're not going to

697
00:31:57,356 --> 00:31:59,356
Speaker 2: win against this person. There's so much better than you.

698
00:31:59,796 --> 00:32:01,996
Speaker 2: What they didn't know was they were actually matched with

699
00:32:02,036 --> 00:32:03,836
Speaker 2: an athlete who was at the same level as them.

700
00:32:04,116 --> 00:32:06,836
Speaker 2: But when you're told in advance you're not going to

701
00:32:06,836 --> 00:32:08,956
Speaker 2: be able to do this, it can't. And when they

702
00:32:08,996 --> 00:32:11,356
Speaker 2: were told the opposite, all this person sucks compared to you,

703
00:32:11,356 --> 00:32:13,236
Speaker 2: You're so much better, you're going to win. So a

704
00:32:13,316 --> 00:32:16,876
Speaker 2: lot of times our expectation really predicts outcomes. And like

705
00:32:16,916 --> 00:32:19,716
Speaker 2: there's an experiment where they tell students going into a

706
00:32:19,716 --> 00:32:22,396
Speaker 2: classroom the people that are very friendly or they're not,

707
00:32:22,676 --> 00:32:25,316
Speaker 2: and the success of this student going into the classroom

708
00:32:25,396 --> 00:32:27,596
Speaker 2: being able to make friends really had to do with

709
00:32:27,596 --> 00:32:29,756
Speaker 2: what their expectations of what was to come. So I

710
00:32:29,796 --> 00:32:32,076
Speaker 2: do believe in this concept of self fulfilling prophecy, and

711
00:32:32,116 --> 00:32:34,516
Speaker 2: I don't think that optimism is at all magical thinking.

712
00:32:34,596 --> 00:32:36,516
Speaker 1: So, how can we fight some of these barriers that

713
00:32:36,596 --> 00:32:38,556
Speaker 1: lead to a lack of self efficacy? What can do

714
00:32:38,596 --> 00:32:41,436
Speaker 1: we do to become more proficient? One of the barriers

715
00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:44,716
Speaker 1: you talked about a lot sort of fighting helplessness. How

716
00:32:44,716 --> 00:32:46,596
Speaker 1: can we fight our inner sense of helplessness?

717
00:32:46,596 --> 00:32:48,916
Speaker 2: So I think the first thing is just understanding and

718
00:32:48,956 --> 00:32:52,756
Speaker 2: recognizing it as that, and allowing yourself time to rest

719
00:32:52,916 --> 00:32:56,796
Speaker 2: and to sometimes hit pause, maybe not stop. Validation is

720
00:32:56,796 --> 00:32:58,836
Speaker 2: a key part of that is just to say I

721
00:32:58,876 --> 00:33:01,076
Speaker 2: had a really hard time, Like if you're lucky enough

722
00:33:01,116 --> 00:33:03,396
Speaker 2: to have someone really like loving and caring and has

723
00:33:03,396 --> 00:33:05,636
Speaker 2: your best interests at heart, to say I get it,

724
00:33:05,676 --> 00:33:07,796
Speaker 2: I see you, I see how hard you're working, and

725
00:33:07,996 --> 00:33:10,516
Speaker 2: this was not your fault or could you learn something

726
00:33:10,516 --> 00:33:11,996
Speaker 2: from this if you did have a role in it,

727
00:33:11,996 --> 00:33:16,556
Speaker 2: and what can you do differently? So I think pausing, resting, recovering,

728
00:33:16,836 --> 00:33:18,556
Speaker 2: because I think so many of us just go from

729
00:33:18,556 --> 00:33:21,196
Speaker 2: one project to another to another, and it's this like

730
00:33:21,436 --> 00:33:24,116
Speaker 2: sort of destination addiction where you're like, I need to

731
00:33:24,116 --> 00:33:27,396
Speaker 2: get to the next place without really thinking through why

732
00:33:27,396 --> 00:33:29,956
Speaker 2: do I continue to strive? You know, and sometimes to

733
00:33:29,956 --> 00:33:32,716
Speaker 2: look at the helplessness and say, is this an opportunity

734
00:33:32,716 --> 00:33:34,556
Speaker 2: for me to change course? You know, am I meant

735
00:33:34,716 --> 00:33:36,956
Speaker 2: really for this? Do I really want this? Or is

736
00:33:36,996 --> 00:33:38,676
Speaker 2: there another way for me to achieve this?

737
00:33:38,836 --> 00:33:40,716
Speaker 1: And that really nicely gets to a second barrier. You've

738
00:33:40,756 --> 00:33:43,356
Speaker 1: talked about this idea of stuckness, where it's like I

739
00:33:43,436 --> 00:33:45,236
Speaker 1: just I'm never going to find a path forward. I'm

740
00:33:45,276 --> 00:33:47,316
Speaker 1: just always going to be stuck. How do we fight

741
00:33:47,396 --> 00:33:51,276
Speaker 1: this barrier to proficiency? Fighting stuckness is about finding flexibility.

742
00:33:51,436 --> 00:33:53,316
Speaker 1: And I talk about in the book about patients who

743
00:33:53,316 --> 00:33:54,956
Speaker 1: are like, oh, I must go to I don't know,

744
00:33:54,956 --> 00:33:57,476
Speaker 1: fill in the blank, like business school or medical school

745
00:33:57,556 --> 00:33:59,516
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And he was actually a patient

746
00:33:59,556 --> 00:34:00,996
Speaker 1: who you know, she was like I have to be

747
00:34:01,036 --> 00:34:03,156
Speaker 1: a PhD In psychology, Like this is the only thing

748
00:34:03,196 --> 00:34:05,596
Speaker 1: she wanted since she was a kid. And her parents

749
00:34:05,636 --> 00:34:07,636
Speaker 1: were like, no, you're not really meant for that very

750
00:34:07,676 --> 00:34:09,636
Speaker 1: long course, and we don't have the money for like

751
00:34:09,796 --> 00:34:11,756
Speaker 1: and I remember talking to this patient saying, is there

752
00:34:11,796 --> 00:34:13,476
Speaker 1: anything else that you can think of? And one thing

753
00:34:13,556 --> 00:34:15,116
Speaker 1: led to another, and next thing, you know, she's the

754
00:34:15,116 --> 00:34:17,356
Speaker 1: head of a wellness company and years later, you know,

755
00:34:17,396 --> 00:34:19,916
Speaker 1: she sent me a clipping of some award that she

756
00:34:20,036 --> 00:34:23,356
Speaker 1: got and it said she had written thank you and

757
00:34:23,396 --> 00:34:25,756
Speaker 1: this was something you should with me in therapy, write

758
00:34:25,756 --> 00:34:28,316
Speaker 1: your purpose and pen but your path in pencil. And

759
00:34:28,356 --> 00:34:29,756
Speaker 1: that was so poignant to me because I was like,

760
00:34:29,836 --> 00:34:31,196
Speaker 1: number one, don't remember saying that, but thank you.

761
00:34:31,236 --> 00:34:33,836
Speaker 2: I'll take it. And then number two, Wow, you know

762
00:34:33,876 --> 00:34:35,756
Speaker 2: it was something that probably I needed to hear at

763
00:34:35,756 --> 00:34:38,236
Speaker 2: that time. And you know, just this idea that we

764
00:34:38,276 --> 00:34:41,196
Speaker 2: don't have to be fixated on one specific path because

765
00:34:41,196 --> 00:34:44,996
Speaker 2: there's so many roads to feeling satisfied, to feeling needed,

766
00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:47,756
Speaker 2: to feeling impactful, and often it's not the road that

767
00:34:47,796 --> 00:34:50,516
Speaker 2: we thought that we would be and that's totally fine.

768
00:34:50,516 --> 00:34:52,996
Speaker 2: So flexibility is a big part of proficiency. Like you

769
00:34:53,036 --> 00:34:54,756
Speaker 2: have to be nimble, you have to be quick, you

770
00:34:54,796 --> 00:34:57,476
Speaker 2: have to say I have tried and it is okay.

771
00:34:57,516 --> 00:34:59,556
Speaker 2: Giving up isn't always a sense of failure. I think

772
00:34:59,556 --> 00:35:01,716
Speaker 2: a lot of times in this culture of go go

773
00:35:01,716 --> 00:35:04,676
Speaker 2: go and work warrior make it happen, too much emphasis

774
00:35:04,876 --> 00:35:07,996
Speaker 2: on the final product, on the success rather than the process,

775
00:35:08,076 --> 00:35:10,956
Speaker 2: which is about making this and learning and fun and

776
00:35:11,036 --> 00:35:13,996
Speaker 2: creativity and getting lost. When my husband and I travel

777
00:35:14,036 --> 00:35:16,756
Speaker 2: and sometimes we make plans and sometimes we don't, you know,

778
00:35:16,796 --> 00:35:19,876
Speaker 2: we don't like to have fixed, structured itineraries. We like

779
00:35:19,996 --> 00:35:22,916
Speaker 2: to drive and go to small villages and meet people

780
00:35:22,956 --> 00:35:24,676
Speaker 2: and see where things take us, you know. And I

781
00:35:24,716 --> 00:35:27,076
Speaker 2: get that that's not always reality, and it's not always

782
00:35:27,076 --> 00:35:29,676
Speaker 2: productive or efficient, especially if you're traveling with young kids.

783
00:35:29,716 --> 00:35:31,676
Speaker 2: But I think as much as possible, I love the

784
00:35:31,756 --> 00:35:34,796
Speaker 2: idea of getting lost and just think about what feels

785
00:35:34,836 --> 00:35:37,756
Speaker 2: safe and what parameters and guardrails. How do you want

786
00:35:37,796 --> 00:35:40,596
Speaker 2: to intentionally and safely allow yourself to get lost.

787
00:35:40,636 --> 00:35:43,036
Speaker 1: It's such a nice way to sort of reframe your perceptions,

788
00:35:43,036 --> 00:35:45,796
Speaker 1: which I think is like such an important part of flexibility.

789
00:35:45,836 --> 00:35:47,756
Speaker 1: And so so those are ways we can sort of

790
00:35:47,756 --> 00:35:51,076
Speaker 1: fixed stuckness. But the third barrier is also one that

791
00:35:51,116 --> 00:35:54,236
Speaker 1: I relate to a lot. It's this kind of just fatigue,

792
00:35:54,596 --> 00:35:56,956
Speaker 1: this idea that like I'm too tired to be proficient,

793
00:35:57,036 --> 00:35:59,836
Speaker 1: Like I just can't do this. What are some ways

794
00:35:59,836 --> 00:36:01,916
Speaker 1: we can break through that barrier to proficiency?

795
00:36:02,116 --> 00:36:03,516
Speaker 2: Laurie, I love that you share that, because when I

796
00:36:03,516 --> 00:36:06,396
Speaker 2: think of so many like really successful and high achieving people,

797
00:36:06,436 --> 00:36:09,036
Speaker 2: I feel like we are at risk of burnout because

798
00:36:09,396 --> 00:36:11,876
Speaker 2: we hold ourselves to really high standards and I feel

799
00:36:11,876 --> 00:36:14,516
Speaker 2: like in this culture, we're often taught that rest has

800
00:36:14,556 --> 00:36:17,996
Speaker 2: to be earned, or that rest is wasteful, unproductive, and

801
00:36:18,036 --> 00:36:20,956
Speaker 2: it's like frowned upon. And I just think that rest

802
00:36:21,036 --> 00:36:24,236
Speaker 2: and leisure need to be incorporated as part of the

803
00:36:24,276 --> 00:36:27,716
Speaker 2: work plan and schedule with the same type of intention

804
00:36:28,076 --> 00:36:31,196
Speaker 2: and urgency in a way. So when fatigue sets in,

805
00:36:31,276 --> 00:36:34,636
Speaker 2: I think that whatever fills your cop play, I think

806
00:36:34,636 --> 00:36:36,956
Speaker 2: for me is always a way to do that. So

807
00:36:37,396 --> 00:36:40,756
Speaker 2: give yourself grace and be gentle and recognize that do

808
00:36:40,796 --> 00:36:42,436
Speaker 2: you want to get to the peak or the summit

809
00:36:42,476 --> 00:36:47,156
Speaker 2: of this mountain completely out of breath, weathered and worn down, demoralized?

810
00:36:47,196 --> 00:36:48,716
Speaker 2: You got to the peak? But at what costs?

811
00:36:48,756 --> 00:36:51,996
Speaker 1: It also sounds like it's just really recognizing our natural limitations,

812
00:36:52,036 --> 00:36:55,116
Speaker 1: whether those are just kind of mental natural limitations, like

813
00:36:55,156 --> 00:36:56,956
Speaker 1: we just need some rest, we need to take a break,

814
00:36:56,956 --> 00:37:00,316
Speaker 1: but also physical natural limitations. I think this is sometimes

815
00:37:00,396 --> 00:37:02,396
Speaker 1: why we feel so fatigued, is that we're not taking

816
00:37:02,436 --> 00:37:03,956
Speaker 1: care of our physical bodies too.

817
00:37:04,316 --> 00:37:06,436
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And I say, like, for me, like something

818
00:37:06,676 --> 00:37:08,796
Speaker 2: I'm really working on right now, and it's something I've

819
00:37:08,836 --> 00:37:11,316
Speaker 2: been thinking about for a long time is like sleep hygiene,

820
00:37:11,396 --> 00:37:13,796
Speaker 2: you know, I think that I've always just taken my

821
00:37:13,876 --> 00:37:17,396
Speaker 2: physical health for granted, and sometimes there's consequences to that,

822
00:37:17,516 --> 00:37:20,676
Speaker 2: and I've just assumed, oh, I'm a machine, it'll work

823
00:37:20,716 --> 00:37:23,556
Speaker 2: itself out. And I remember a friend several years ahead

824
00:37:23,556 --> 00:37:24,996
Speaker 2: of me telling me that, so there's going to come

825
00:37:25,036 --> 00:37:26,956
Speaker 2: a point in your life when you're going to make

826
00:37:26,956 --> 00:37:29,116
Speaker 2: your schedule around sleep. And I was like, I don't

827
00:37:29,116 --> 00:37:31,316
Speaker 2: believe you, Like I make my schedule around everything else,

828
00:37:31,396 --> 00:37:33,236
Speaker 2: but that that just fits itself in. She's like, no,

829
00:37:33,316 --> 00:37:35,916
Speaker 2: I'm very careful about it. And now I'm thinking backwards

830
00:37:35,956 --> 00:37:38,276
Speaker 2: where I'm like, if I want to protect this time,

831
00:37:38,316 --> 00:37:40,956
Speaker 2: whatever it is, seven eight, nine hours, then I'm going

832
00:37:40,996 --> 00:37:43,036
Speaker 2: to work backwards, and the things that I'm saying yes

833
00:37:43,076 --> 00:37:45,916
Speaker 2: to and no too are going to be centered around

834
00:37:46,036 --> 00:37:49,156
Speaker 2: the sleep schedule. You know, it's about making deposits into

835
00:37:49,396 --> 00:37:52,956
Speaker 2: this rest account. And so sleep is one way, fifteen

836
00:37:52,956 --> 00:37:56,556
Speaker 2: minute naps is another way, one minute meditations is another way,

837
00:37:56,796 --> 00:37:59,796
Speaker 2: exercise is another way. Anything that's going to refill your

838
00:37:59,796 --> 00:38:01,716
Speaker 2: cup and replenish your energy.

839
00:38:01,996 --> 00:38:04,236
Speaker 1: And so all these strategies that you're talking about for

840
00:38:04,276 --> 00:38:07,796
Speaker 1: replenishing your energy, fighting helplessness, feeling less stuck, these were

841
00:38:07,836 --> 00:38:09,996
Speaker 1: exactly the kind of things you talk about with Shelley.

842
00:38:10,356 --> 00:38:12,116
Speaker 1: What was the outcome there? Was she able to use

843
00:38:12,156 --> 00:38:15,156
Speaker 1: these strategies to kind of heal that inner sense of brokenness.

844
00:38:15,276 --> 00:38:17,076
Speaker 2: Yes, And it's funny because she would joke. She's like,

845
00:38:17,156 --> 00:38:19,556
Speaker 2: I didn't often know where you were going with certain things,

846
00:38:19,596 --> 00:38:21,996
Speaker 2: like when I'm telling you how I'm scared about another

847
00:38:22,116 --> 00:38:24,316
Speaker 2: terrorist attack happening, or I feel like my sense of

848
00:38:24,476 --> 00:38:28,116
Speaker 2: safety or calmness or hope has been changed or demoralized.

849
00:38:28,156 --> 00:38:29,876
Speaker 2: You would say to me, talk to your boss about

850
00:38:29,876 --> 00:38:31,716
Speaker 2: trying to get time off or sleep. She's like, I

851
00:38:31,716 --> 00:38:35,116
Speaker 2: didn't understand where we were going necessarily, but you know,

852
00:38:35,156 --> 00:38:37,156
Speaker 2: I figured I'm here, so I might as well show

853
00:38:37,236 --> 00:38:38,996
Speaker 2: up and go with you. And so I think a

854
00:38:38,996 --> 00:38:41,316
Speaker 2: lot of times when people come in to work with me,

855
00:38:41,356 --> 00:38:44,316
Speaker 2: they'll come in with one specific problem in mind, and

856
00:38:44,596 --> 00:38:46,956
Speaker 2: they're hoping to get an answer for that problem. And

857
00:38:46,956 --> 00:38:49,036
Speaker 2: then I often say, let's back up and sort of

858
00:38:49,036 --> 00:38:51,196
Speaker 2: take a three sixty to approach your wellness even though

859
00:38:51,236 --> 00:38:53,556
Speaker 2: you're talking to me about, let's say, problems at work.

860
00:38:53,676 --> 00:38:55,516
Speaker 2: You know, she wanted to get a raise, she wanted

861
00:38:55,556 --> 00:38:57,956
Speaker 2: to get a promotion, but she was just so afraid.

862
00:38:58,116 --> 00:39:00,196
Speaker 2: She thought if I asked for days off, if I

863
00:39:00,236 --> 00:39:01,996
Speaker 2: ask for rest, even if it was like blocking off

864
00:39:01,996 --> 00:39:04,796
Speaker 2: an hour for therapy, that all of these things would

865
00:39:05,236 --> 00:39:06,956
Speaker 2: get in the way of promotion because she would be

866
00:39:06,996 --> 00:39:09,156
Speaker 2: seen as, you're not really serious about this job. And

867
00:39:09,236 --> 00:39:11,116
Speaker 2: what was interesting was by taking care of her mental

868
00:39:11,116 --> 00:39:13,396
Speaker 2: health by resting more. Her boss was like, I had

869
00:39:13,476 --> 00:39:15,996
Speaker 2: no idea that you were going through all of this.

870
00:39:16,196 --> 00:39:18,356
Speaker 2: I am more than happy to give you PTO. No,

871
00:39:18,476 --> 00:39:20,556
Speaker 2: I'm not going to doctor pay like a lease. Consider

872
00:39:20,596 --> 00:39:22,676
Speaker 2: it as part of the sickly that you have, which

873
00:39:22,716 --> 00:39:24,396
Speaker 2: you have tons of. You have never taken a sick

874
00:39:24,436 --> 00:39:27,276
Speaker 2: day in your life. And she finally felt her mission

875
00:39:27,396 --> 00:39:29,556
Speaker 2: to rest, permission to take care of her mental health,

876
00:39:29,596 --> 00:39:31,716
Speaker 2: and she ended up getting the promotion. I mean, her

877
00:39:31,716 --> 00:39:34,596
Speaker 2: life changed, like a lot of it is because embracing

878
00:39:34,636 --> 00:39:36,676
Speaker 2: the fact that your life is not the same, you know.

879
00:39:36,716 --> 00:39:38,836
Speaker 2: And I think that's the hardest part because so many people,

880
00:39:38,956 --> 00:39:41,556
Speaker 2: very quickly after trauma or any any kind of setback,

881
00:39:41,916 --> 00:39:44,516
Speaker 2: want to get back to who they were. I mean,

882
00:39:44,556 --> 00:39:48,196
Speaker 2: it's not possible because this event has transformed you and

883
00:39:48,236 --> 00:39:52,076
Speaker 2: your understanding and framework of the world. But also for

884
00:39:52,156 --> 00:39:54,956
Speaker 2: a lot of people going back to baseline also doesn't

885
00:39:54,956 --> 00:39:57,796
Speaker 2: make sense because your baseline might have gotten you to

886
00:39:57,836 --> 00:40:00,116
Speaker 2: where you are right now and why you're in my

887
00:40:00,156 --> 00:40:02,316
Speaker 2: office to begin with. So really think about when someone

888
00:40:02,316 --> 00:40:04,276
Speaker 2: said I just want to be who I was? Is

889
00:40:04,276 --> 00:40:07,076
Speaker 2: it realistic? Is it possible? And is it healthy?

890
00:40:07,116 --> 00:40:09,956
Speaker 1: Because sometimes optimism really seems like it's about kind of

891
00:40:09,996 --> 00:40:12,636
Speaker 1: accepting where we are and giving ourselves the grace to

892
00:40:13,076 --> 00:40:13,836
Speaker 1: be in that spot.

893
00:40:14,036 --> 00:40:17,756
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. So it's interesting because when you think about optimism,

894
00:40:17,796 --> 00:40:19,996
Speaker 2: it's just you think it only means one thing, which

895
00:40:20,036 --> 00:40:22,356
Speaker 2: is to look on the bright side, not recognizing that

896
00:40:22,396 --> 00:40:26,836
Speaker 2: it includes a practice of gratitude, of leisure, of rest

897
00:40:26,996 --> 00:40:30,716
Speaker 2: of self, compassion, of proactivity, of challenging the way that

898
00:40:30,756 --> 00:40:33,276
Speaker 2: you're thinking. So there's so much more to it, and

899
00:40:33,516 --> 00:40:36,676
Speaker 2: optimists do it naturally not to mention having healthier habits

900
00:40:36,676 --> 00:40:38,156
Speaker 2: and what's involved with that.

901
00:40:39,116 --> 00:40:41,236
Speaker 1: Thanks to doctor Sue Varmah and the folks at the

902
00:40:41,236 --> 00:40:44,156
Speaker 1: World Happiness Summit who introduced me to Sue's work. If

903
00:40:44,236 --> 00:40:46,076
Speaker 1: you want to learn more about the summit or sign

904
00:40:46,116 --> 00:40:48,396
Speaker 1: up for their twenty twenty six event, you can visit

905
00:40:48,516 --> 00:40:52,836
Speaker 1: World Happiness Summit dot com. That's World Happiness summit dot com.

906
00:40:52,876 --> 00:40:56,076
Speaker 1: But my discussion with Suet Wahasu was so insightful and

907
00:40:56,156 --> 00:40:58,156
Speaker 1: I can't help but leave you with one more of

908
00:40:58,196 --> 00:41:00,956
Speaker 1: the highlights. This was when Sue agreed to lead me

909
00:41:01,036 --> 00:41:03,396
Speaker 1: in the audience in a name It, Claim It, Team it,

910
00:41:03,476 --> 00:41:04,996
Speaker 1: and reframem it exercise.

911
00:41:05,716 --> 00:41:07,916
Speaker 2: Okay, so first of all, just if you want to

912
00:41:07,956 --> 00:41:09,636
Speaker 2: close your eyes, feel free. If you want to keep

913
00:41:09,636 --> 00:41:12,156
Speaker 2: them open, you know, whatever worked best for you, name

914
00:41:12,236 --> 00:41:15,556
Speaker 2: the antecedent. Think of a problem, right, Think of anything

915
00:41:15,596 --> 00:41:17,556
Speaker 2: that might have happened today or in the last week

916
00:41:17,596 --> 00:41:20,436
Speaker 2: that could have triggered you to feeling upset, right, And

917
00:41:20,476 --> 00:41:22,996
Speaker 2: the more granular you get, the more likely you are

918
00:41:23,036 --> 00:41:24,596
Speaker 2: to be able to put your finger on it and

919
00:41:24,676 --> 00:41:27,516
Speaker 2: change the problem. And we see this even as far

920
00:41:27,636 --> 00:41:30,276
Speaker 2: an extreme as suicide, where somebody can put their finger

921
00:41:30,316 --> 00:41:32,356
Speaker 2: on These were the events that led to me feeling

922
00:41:32,636 --> 00:41:35,076
Speaker 2: like my life didn't have value anymore. I didn't want

923
00:41:35,076 --> 00:41:37,836
Speaker 2: to live anymore. Right, So that is a dark scenario.

924
00:41:37,836 --> 00:41:41,516
Speaker 2: But just in think of an everyday problem, name the antecedent. Right.

925
00:41:42,236 --> 00:41:45,676
Speaker 2: Then I want you to feel in your body, right,

926
00:41:45,716 --> 00:41:47,196
Speaker 2: so maybe you want to close your eyes for this,

927
00:41:47,996 --> 00:41:50,956
Speaker 2: Where in your body are you feeling the tension, right?

928
00:41:51,156 --> 00:41:53,636
Speaker 2: Are you feeling it in your jaw? Are you feeling

929
00:41:53,676 --> 00:41:56,196
Speaker 2: it in your shoulders? Are you feeling it in your legs?

930
00:41:56,356 --> 00:41:58,956
Speaker 2: Where do you tend to hold the problem and the

931
00:41:59,036 --> 00:42:02,676
Speaker 2: stress in your body? Right? So, now you've named the antecedent,

932
00:42:02,996 --> 00:42:06,156
Speaker 2: You've claimed where it is in your body. Because often

933
00:42:06,676 --> 00:42:10,036
Speaker 2: the body will express what the mind can be right

934
00:42:10,196 --> 00:42:13,516
Speaker 2: and it will take place in the form of medical problems, headaches,

935
00:42:13,556 --> 00:42:16,396
Speaker 2: things like that. And then I want you this is

936
00:42:16,436 --> 00:42:19,436
Speaker 2: the taming part, and everybody has a different form of

937
00:42:19,476 --> 00:42:22,236
Speaker 2: self soothing. Some people may say that I want to

938
00:42:22,276 --> 00:42:25,636
Speaker 2: take one minute meditation. I call these oasis moments where

939
00:42:25,676 --> 00:42:28,516
Speaker 2: you are shutting the world out and finding your grounded

940
00:42:28,596 --> 00:42:31,116
Speaker 2: sense of peace internally. Right, it could be one minute

941
00:42:31,196 --> 00:42:35,956
Speaker 2: meditation or something that I've worked on that is based

942
00:42:35,956 --> 00:42:39,076
Speaker 2: off of a best possible scenario. It's an optimism intervention.

943
00:42:39,156 --> 00:42:41,516
Speaker 2: It's ten minutes, but this is a one minute version

944
00:42:41,556 --> 00:42:42,836
Speaker 2: of it. So if you want to do this with me,

945
00:42:43,316 --> 00:42:46,836
Speaker 2: let's go. I'd like to just close your eyes, settle in,

946
00:42:47,316 --> 00:42:50,396
Speaker 2: let your shoulders drop, and I want to take you

947
00:42:50,436 --> 00:42:53,636
Speaker 2: on a little journey with me. So now that I've

948
00:42:53,636 --> 00:42:57,476
Speaker 2: asked you to envision a problem. Right so you've clearly

949
00:42:57,516 --> 00:43:00,356
Speaker 2: defined the problem in your mind. I want you to

950
00:43:00,436 --> 00:43:07,236
Speaker 2: imagine a road, a path leading to the solution to

951
00:43:07,436 --> 00:43:11,036
Speaker 2: that problem. I want you to get very specific. What

952
00:43:11,076 --> 00:43:15,316
Speaker 2: does that solution look like? And what does the road

953
00:43:15,516 --> 00:43:19,836
Speaker 2: to the solution look like? Is that road straight? Does

954
00:43:19,876 --> 00:43:24,876
Speaker 2: it wind? Does it twister? Turn? And now I want

955
00:43:24,916 --> 00:43:28,836
Speaker 2: to imagine that we are walking together towards that solution.

956
00:43:31,636 --> 00:43:37,716
Speaker 2: We're getting closer. You're getting closer, and this solution is

957
00:43:37,756 --> 00:43:42,796
Speaker 2: the best possible outcome that you could have envisioned. And

958
00:43:42,836 --> 00:43:48,076
Speaker 2: you're starting to feel the anticipation of excitement, of delight,

959
00:43:48,996 --> 00:43:57,116
Speaker 2: of success, of satisfaction, of personal gratification. You're getting closer,

960
00:43:58,596 --> 00:44:03,316
Speaker 2: and now you have arrived at the best possible outcome

961
00:44:03,436 --> 00:44:09,196
Speaker 2: of your solution. And I want you to feel all

962
00:44:09,196 --> 00:44:18,756
Speaker 2: the feelings that come with success, with mastery, with resolution, peace, happiness,

963
00:44:19,436 --> 00:44:24,316
Speaker 2: and success are enveloping you. Right now. I want you

964
00:44:24,396 --> 00:44:26,756
Speaker 2: to take a deep breath to the count of five,

965
00:44:29,236 --> 00:44:35,796
Speaker 2: inhaling gently through your nose and exhaling slowly through your mouth.

966
00:44:37,476 --> 00:44:46,716
Speaker 2: Your feeling relaxed, hopeful, successful, and just know that this

967
00:44:46,836 --> 00:44:51,716
Speaker 2: feeling is always at your fingertips. Success is accessible within

968
00:44:51,796 --> 00:44:58,036
Speaker 2: you through a positive mindset that you have chosen, and

969
00:44:58,076 --> 00:44:59,956
Speaker 2: take a deep breath and open your eyes.

970
00:45:01,196 --> 00:45:09,116
Speaker 1: Pretty good, right, that's pretty good. Thank you,