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Speaker 1: Hey, what I welcome in. I'm Doug Golly, this is

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Speaker 1: all ball and this is award. Instead of me rambling

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Speaker 1: about other stuff, I thought I would just kind of

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Speaker 1: get to part two because part one of Saboy Jousky

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Speaker 1: was so good. In our last episode, who Joe talked

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Speaker 1: about how unique his upbringing was, on how his meteorc

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Speaker 1: rise in recruiting was and how he ended up getting Duke,

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Speaker 1: and you know then early on at Duke in this

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Speaker 1: episode and we broke it up. This is a great

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Speaker 1: conversation with a very interesting bright man who's incredibly well traveled.

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Speaker 1: It's really good. There's other stuff in there too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's just so good. So make sure to download, review,

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Speaker 1: write a review, subscribe, rate, tell a friend about it,

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Speaker 1: tweet about it, put it on Facebook. Whoever you want

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Speaker 1: um and I hope you enjoyed. Reminded. The Doug Outli

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Speaker 1: Show is daily twelve to three Pacific three to six

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Speaker 1: Eastern time on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sport, Tradeo dot Com,

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app series XM to seventeen and

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Speaker 1: two oh three. All right, let's let's get to part

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Speaker 1: two of my conversation with former Captain of Duke former

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Speaker 1: assistant coach at Duke from a head coach at Marquette,

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Speaker 1: Steve Wachowski. So your senior year, now you're a Duke commit.

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Speaker 1: How does that change your senior year in high school

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Speaker 1: in terms of not just how your own team and

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Speaker 1: coaches treats you. But I would guess you're on the

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Speaker 1: road in Baltimore playing in the Catholic School League, that

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Speaker 1: guys are giving you the business look you know, and

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Speaker 1: now you have the Oh you're going to Duke. You

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Speaker 1: think you're better than everybody? Guys? What was that? What

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Speaker 1: was that again? From a guy who was on the

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Speaker 1: rise but more regionally known to now a nationally known

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Speaker 1: guy going to be Duke's point guard? What was that experience? Like? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember thinking. I felt like because the school

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Speaker 1: Cardinal Gibbon's in the Catholic League, we were kind of

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Speaker 1: the school UM where we were the blue collar school

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Speaker 1: trying to fight to make it and as opposed to

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Speaker 1: some other Catholic schools where it was it was not

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Speaker 1: necessarily in my view like that UM and I and

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Speaker 1: and so I still I think I still maintained a

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Speaker 1: little bit of an underdog mentality and you know, the

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Speaker 1: proposing fans players would come after me. But that's fine,

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Speaker 1: like bringing you know, like we're playing basketball, Like that's

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Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do. So if if because I'm

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Speaker 1: going to do allows you to do what you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to do, let's let's let's go. Um. But you know, again,

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Speaker 1: it was it's still at that point like when I

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Speaker 1: committed to Duke and there wasn't message boards and modes

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Speaker 1: of communication that there is now. There was like can

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Speaker 1: he play it to because he's good enough? And that

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Speaker 1: there was you'd hear that debate. Remember Gary, we played

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Speaker 1: the math early in the season and obviously the Matha

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Speaker 1: is a traditional longtime power coach. Luton was still coaching

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Speaker 1: at that point. Gary Williams came to the game. They

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Speaker 1: had kid named Tim Hill who was a really good player,

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Speaker 1: ended up being a great player at Harvard, and you know,

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Speaker 1: like he said to one of the coaches like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't he's not gonna be able to

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Speaker 1: play it, dude, I'm not sure he's a Division one player. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I heard that after the game. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I ended up having twenty five in the first half,

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Speaker 1: and you know, close to forty in the game and

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Speaker 1: I wasn't a score but uh, but you know, so

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Speaker 1: there was still some of that, but I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: kind of kept my nose down and just the process

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Speaker 1: that got me to this point was not something I

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Speaker 1: thought about abandoning just because I was going to Duke.

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Speaker 1: But it did change the notoriety. UM well have in

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Speaker 1: nine now and Duke gloss on the last second shot

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Speaker 1: to a national title right in Charlotte. Um, I would

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Speaker 1: guess because I can tell you like I was, I

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Speaker 1: would always want to go to U. C l A.

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Speaker 1: And I turned them down and went to Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: and damn with use doesn't up and win in ash

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Speaker 1: like and Notre Day was not good, you know? And uh,

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Speaker 1: and I remember going like, I can you can you believe?

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Speaker 1: Like the school I my dream school Part two? U

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Speaker 1: C l A. And Duke you know, um, and so

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Speaker 1: what what do you do? You You had to die

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Speaker 1: slow death watching Duke, who you hadn't yet played a

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Speaker 1: game for, lose a national championship on the last second shot. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was hard. I mean, they're literally a

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Speaker 1: fingernail way from three out of forts championships. But that

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Speaker 1: team was incredible and one of the things, you know, Grant,

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Speaker 1: it was such a great player, and I think people

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Speaker 1: today's day and age, um forget how good a player

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Speaker 1: he was. One of the rule changes that year and

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Speaker 1: thankfully they put it back when I got to college,

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Speaker 1: was they changed the five second call. Yeah, so the

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Speaker 1: ball could be in Grants hands and he could act

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Speaker 1: like a te forward or point guard, which essentially was

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Speaker 1: and he could have the ball for a long time

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Speaker 1: and get get where he needed to go against anyone,

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Speaker 1: or get the ball where it needed to go. Um,

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Speaker 1: and that run was spectacular, but it was it was

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean again, it's like you're going to

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Speaker 1: this place and they're just rolling people. Year after year.

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Speaker 1: They're they're like there there, they are the gold standard

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Speaker 1: without question of college basketball. And it's been like that,

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Speaker 1: really am I throughout my formative years in the game.

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Speaker 1: So you show up there, what do you remember about?

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Speaker 1: Show this fall? Right, didn't have summer back then, and

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Speaker 1: so you're working at home, you're getting ready to go there. Um.

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Speaker 1: What was first arriving on Duke's campus as a freshman

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Speaker 1: is what I remember the pickup games because at that time,

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Speaker 1: like you said, you you started school. Will actually started

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Speaker 1: school late because I was traveling with the USA basketball team.

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Speaker 1: Trade and Ricky and I my freshman class Keith Price, Trade,

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Speaker 1: jan Land and the three of us made the US

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Speaker 1: team that won the gold medal in art Contina. So

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Speaker 1: we actually started school weekly. Um. But in the in

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Speaker 1: the fall, the thing you did to train and get

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Speaker 1: in shape. It was not like individual workout, it was

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Speaker 1: you played pick up and the pickup games were hillacious

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Speaker 1: because you have all the former pros at that time,

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Speaker 1: we were trying to get back in shape for training camp,

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Speaker 1: come back to Durham and the same At the same time,

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Speaker 1: the same thing was happening in Chapel Hill. So you

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Speaker 1: would play in these pickup games and there'd be your

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Speaker 1: your Duke teammates, but you'd have the best Christian lady

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Speaker 1: or Bobby Hurley Grant Hill, and then you know, at

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Speaker 1: times you have the guys Carolina come over, so you

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Speaker 1: you'd have like pros on pros and you play either

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Speaker 1: in Cameron or you playing card Jim, which was an

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Speaker 1: old school gym. And in the fall, I do probably

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Speaker 1: a ten degrees and you play two courts. You have

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Speaker 1: a Winter's court and the Loser's Court and the games

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Speaker 1: and that you know, we're some of the best basketball

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Speaker 1: games in history that no one knows about because you'd

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Speaker 1: have Duke Carolina, you have former players, you have current players,

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Speaker 1: and they were lacious and I remember playing in these games,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I mean there's times you think to yourself, like,

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Speaker 1: am I built for this? You know, am I built

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Speaker 1: for this? Because you're playing against pros. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: mean there was more pros than they were not pros

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Speaker 1: in that gym, and like legit pros not like drafted

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Speaker 1: and maybe it's gonna be good. Like no, they're going

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Speaker 1: to get to the league and they're gonna be good. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I remember the most. Your freshman year

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Speaker 1: was the year where coach k had to leave the team.

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Speaker 1: So what what what? What was it? What really happened?

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Speaker 1: What was really like on that team? Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: it was it was it was difficult. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: started the year reasonably good. You know, we were one

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Speaker 1: of the top ten team in the country. I think

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Speaker 1: we were nine and three before a SEC season started,

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Speaker 1: and played a good schedule. Um, you know, we weren't

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Speaker 1: on it like some of the teams before us. But

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Speaker 1: we were one of the better teams in the country,

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Speaker 1: and you know Coach was really hurting. Um, did you

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Speaker 1: know I knew as much as I was capable, and

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Speaker 1: you knew I knew enough. Again, he hadn't coached me,

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Speaker 1: so there was no reference point of comparison. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you hear from the other guys. You knew he had

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Speaker 1: back surgery in the off season. Um, you know that

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Speaker 1: he was struggling. Me. He looked tired. You know, he

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Speaker 1: wasn't moving great, and so I sensed it, even though

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a reference point of when he was,

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Speaker 1: you know, at his best. Um, but when I can

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Speaker 1: still remember, you know, we we meet the old Duke

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Speaker 1: locker room. There's players lounge. It was tiny and any

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Speaker 1: time there was a serious meeting, we wouldn't meet in

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Speaker 1: the locker room. When we meet in the player's lounge.

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Speaker 1: You didn't really want to have meetings and players lounge.

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Speaker 1: Uh So when the meeting was called and we all

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Speaker 1: went to the players you know you'd have you know,

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Speaker 1: fourteen guys in there at this tiny room got hotter

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Speaker 1: hot at hell. Coach walked in and he did not

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Speaker 1: look good physically. You know, emotionally he didn't look good

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Speaker 1: and and at that point he said, I have to

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Speaker 1: step away, like I'm not I'm not healthy right now

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Speaker 1: and I have to step away. And um, it was

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Speaker 1: a it was a devastating moment, I think for everyone

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Speaker 1: in the room, devastating for coach. It was devastating for

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Speaker 1: the players, staff and UH. And there was definitely a

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Speaker 1: vacuum that was left. Um, I really do believe that

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Speaker 1: everybody that UH players, coaches, everybody did the best that

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Speaker 1: they knew how. We were just in a situation where

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Speaker 1: we didn't necessarily know how, and the program was so

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Speaker 1: dependent on coach, like everything ran through him and he

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Speaker 1: was a dominant, dominant figure. When our outlet got unplugged

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Speaker 1: from his, there was a there was a vacuum, and

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Speaker 1: and none of them. You know, again, in hindsight, there

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Speaker 1: every one of us, if we're being honest with ourselves,

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Speaker 1: would have done things differently and and hopefully better. But

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Speaker 1: as you're going through it, it's hard to it's hard

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Speaker 1: to step back and recognize that, especially because the ah

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Speaker 1: C was freaking loaded and Duke was you know, like

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Speaker 1: you beat Duke. It's like that now, But let me

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Speaker 1: help you from the outside perspective. Okay, so that that's

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Speaker 1: this is like the thirteen eighteen team Duke. You won

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Speaker 1: two A C games. But remember you're coming off of

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Speaker 1: playing for national championship, right, and you have you still

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Speaker 1: have even though a lot of the guys were young.

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Speaker 1: Uh Trajan Langdon was a McDonald's American Rickey Price. You

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Speaker 1: got Cherokee at Chief is still there Cherokee Parks, right,

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Speaker 1: you have Jeff Capel, Chris Collins. You got nine dudes

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Speaker 1: and you're Duke, right, So it doesn't matter Myosky is

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Speaker 1: coaching Duke or peak out. That's coaching Duke. You beat Duke.

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Speaker 1: You store in the court, right, and now even though

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Speaker 1: everybody's beating Duke, like, it gets to it almost it

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Speaker 1: gets to the point where, now if you don't beat

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Speaker 1: Duke or something something wrong with you, you're at Duke. Right.

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Speaker 1: This is all of a sudden, you know, like your

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Speaker 1: life changes. You're at the royalty for college basketball there.

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Speaker 1: But what's it like for you as somebody who I

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Speaker 1: know how you're wired? Right? The whole the whole goal

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Speaker 1: in any basketball game you've ever played is to win

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Speaker 1: the basketball game. Right, That's what right? Right? Right, like

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Speaker 1: I know how many points I haven't? No, my many

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Speaker 1: assists I have. The truth is all I really care

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Speaker 1: about is if I have more points? And now you

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Speaker 1: guys are losing and coach k is not there. What's

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Speaker 1: going on in Steve boy Jahowski's mind and life? Because

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you, like I went to Notre Dame, never

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Speaker 1: been on a bad team before ever, and we were

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Speaker 1: big East was that was this is the next year

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Speaker 1: the b he said, four teams in the top ten

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Speaker 1: and we're in like last place, and I was it

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Speaker 1: really really affected me, like really affected me. What about you?

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Speaker 1: What was it like for you? It was incredibly difficult. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, you you you have these visions of what

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Speaker 1: you think your experience is going to be. And the

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Speaker 1: duke the expectation was, you know, it's national championship or bust.

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Speaker 1: So at least if you're aiming for that star, you're

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Speaker 1: if you don't make it, you're gonna you're you're gonna

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Speaker 1: land someplace that's generally pretty good. Um. But it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, you depressed, scared, uh, confused,

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Speaker 1: I mean all those things you know, like you question

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Speaker 1: like am I good enough? Is this the right place

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Speaker 1: that I make. You know, you go through all those

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Speaker 1: questions that I think college basketball freshmen a lot of

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Speaker 1: times have because it's always harder. Then It's always harder

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Speaker 1: than a high school player thinks. It is always like,

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Speaker 1: in my view, a hundred out of a hundred times,

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Speaker 1: even if person is really good as a freshman. But

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Speaker 1: then you throw on top like you're you're playing at

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Speaker 1: the standard of college basketball and you're losing. You know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like we're getting blown out. We lost a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of close like literally last second

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Speaker 1: buzzer beating losses. We lost what it was, Maryland by two,

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Speaker 1: by the way, which I'm sure that was right, Like

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Speaker 1: playing it, dude, and you lose the Maryland by two twice. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that guy named Joe Smith. It was pretty good,

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Speaker 1: pretty good that um but no, I mean we it was.

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Speaker 1: It was. It was devastating, you know. And it's funny

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Speaker 1: you mentioned it, like, so we played Caroline on Senior

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Speaker 1: Night and Jeff Capel hits the shot and most people

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Speaker 1: still think and it's crazy like that shot won the game.

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Speaker 1: That shot put us to overtime. But if you watched

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Speaker 1: the bench, like we cheered like we won the game

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Speaker 1: on the shot, so we go to overtime. And you know,

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Speaker 1: my playing time was inconsistent. Play a lot some games,

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Speaker 1: playing not at all others. It was inconsistent, and it

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Speaker 1: probably deserved to be. You got a d n T S. Well,

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Speaker 1: I didn't get d MPs, but there was. I was

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Speaker 1: in the single digits multiple multiple times. Um. But for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, the ball was in my hands in the

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Speaker 1: last possession of of the game versus Carolina where Cable

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Speaker 1: hits shot to put us to overtime and we're supposed

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Speaker 1: to run and play. The play gets busted, so I

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Speaker 1: have to go try to make play one on one

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Speaker 1: against Jeff McGinnis, who was it was the hell of

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Speaker 1: a college player and played the league and a very

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Speaker 1: good defender. And I missed that basically a fouline jump shot,

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Speaker 1: and uh it was. It was. It was all I

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Speaker 1: remember going back to my dorm and calling home and

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Speaker 1: saying like I can't do this. I want out, I

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Speaker 1: want to transfer, I just want to I want to

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Speaker 1: go home. I want to come home and I want

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Speaker 1: to be normal, like I just want to go to school.

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Speaker 1: And you know, my mom, like my mom, my dad,

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Speaker 1: never picks up the home phone. So my mom answered

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Speaker 1: and she's hearing this and she's like, you need to

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Speaker 1: talk to your father. Um, so I have to repeat

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Speaker 1: it again like I can't do it, like I want out,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, you want out, that's fine. If you

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Speaker 1: want to quit, you can come home and you can

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Speaker 1: work with me on the docks. And I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not one of it, Like I want to go.

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Speaker 1: He's like, no, if you're gonna quit this, then you're

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Speaker 1: coming with me. Then you're gonna work on the docks

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Speaker 1: and you can kiss everything you work for goodbye. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, well I'm not transferring. Um, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going anywhere, like I'm gonna make it work. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm crying because if he would have said

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Speaker 1: okay and a lot gave given me an owl, I

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Speaker 1: would have missed out on a lot the whole life, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your whole life. Right, this does butterfly? The butterfly affect things,

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Speaker 1: you know? Yeah, so um, yeah, that that memory is

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Speaker 1: kind of etched in stone because nowadays when kids make

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Speaker 1: that call, it's like you're right, like your coach is

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Speaker 1: an idiot and you've been wronged and yeah, yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: find someone else that's gonna serve you instead of like, look, man,

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Speaker 1: you're being an idiot, like you're you're gonna see this through.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna do your best. Whatever happens with your best,

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Speaker 1: like we'll be fine with but you ain't quitting. It's

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's amazing to bring that up because

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Speaker 1: when this will, this will land with people as if

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Speaker 1: we're some sort of neanderthal character. Right, but if I

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Speaker 1: paid the real picture of what Okay, you went to

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Speaker 1: play for coach K's not there, but also you still

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Speaker 1: had Jeff in front to you for a year and

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Speaker 1: Chris in front of you. Jeff was two years right,

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Speaker 1: he was a junior. Jeff's Jeff was a sophomore, Chris

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Speaker 1: was junior, right, so so and and to McDonald, all

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Speaker 1: Americans in the backcourt and Trajan Wrecky right, so so

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Speaker 1: there there. Yeah, right, you ended up winning the starting spot,

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Speaker 1: but like you're gonna have to overcome those guys aren't

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Speaker 1: going they're not graduating and they're not transferring, right, so

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Speaker 1: it's not like there's a path. Don't worry. Next year

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Speaker 1: you come back, it's your team, and everything is better.

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Speaker 1: Like if everybody comes back, you still have the same

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Speaker 1: fight as well as the pressure of you guys weren't

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Speaker 1: very good not knowing what coach K. So you're you're

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Speaker 1: actually the most people would say, dude, get out of there,

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Speaker 1: you know, get somewhere where it's your team, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And you didn't. So now you come home, you come

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Speaker 1: home for the summer, You stay there in summer. So, um,

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Speaker 1: I was there for usually you would come back for

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Speaker 1: a second session. So again we make it through the year.

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Speaker 1: It was hard, but there's there's hope on the other side, right,

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Speaker 1: like coaches getting out there. In fact, before the HC tournament,

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Speaker 1: he came back and ran one practice and it was

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Speaker 1: it was a hard practice. Um, so what what is

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Speaker 1: what's the hard? What? What? What what is different about

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Speaker 1: a coach k being at practice versus not being a practice?

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Speaker 1: What what was that one workout? Like? What is that actually? Like? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it just tests you physically, mentally and emotionally,

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Speaker 1: you know. And again it wasn't you see some stories

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Speaker 1: now about the practices where it's like all physical, you know,

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Speaker 1: got loose balls and we may have done that, but

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Speaker 1: it was there was an expectation and the standard that

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Speaker 1: you were trying to reach. And the reality is, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of us were in survival mode, not

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Speaker 1: not a mode of thriving. We were trying to survive

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Speaker 1: the season because we were going through something that none

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Speaker 1: of us had experienced. And it's not a criticis system

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Speaker 1: of anyone, Like what we were being asked to do

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Speaker 1: was was hard on everyone, and so we were trying

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Speaker 1: to survive. And when you're trying to survive, you as

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Speaker 1: you oftentimes get internal, like you're not thinking about the group.

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Speaker 1: You're thinking about like how do I tread waterlong enough

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Speaker 1: to get the shore? Um. And so when you came back,

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Speaker 1: it was there was a standard of like that of

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Speaker 1: your own stuff, throw yourself into what we're doing and

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Speaker 1: do it at this level physically, mentally and emotionally. And

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Speaker 1: I and that that one was exhausting because that's that's

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Speaker 1: not the space I think we were in. And so

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Speaker 1: you're being asked to go to this space that's wildly uncomfortable. UM.

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Speaker 1: And you played then you said you guys played in

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Speaker 1: the Less Robinson Invitational. Now, for people who don't know,

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Speaker 1: for people who don't remember about the old A C C.

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Speaker 1: I believe and you tell them if I'm wrong. There

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Speaker 1: were nine teams right at that time, and the eight

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Speaker 1: nine game, it was the only one played in the

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Speaker 1: first day, and it was locally called like the Les Robinson.

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Speaker 1: Less Robinson was coach NC State, and NC State seemed

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Speaker 1: to always be in that game. Duke was never the

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Speaker 1: only time Duke was in that game, right, And that

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00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 1: was a cannot lose this game, because if you lose

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Speaker 1: and I've lost the When I was in the next year,

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Speaker 1: I was in the Big East. We lost to Syracuse,

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Speaker 1: who went to play for a national championship. We lost them.

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Speaker 1: The first that you lose the first day in a

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Speaker 1: conference tournament, especially the Less Robinson game, It's almost like

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Speaker 1: you weren't in it, right, it was like, right, I

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Speaker 1: would guess, like the desire to win that game was big.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that first a CC tournament. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So we we ended up playing wake Forest who had

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Speaker 1: Randolph Children's and Young Kim Duncan and that was the

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Speaker 1: tournament Randolph had like forty points, like that was the

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Speaker 1: thing that was the finger one, right, Yeah. Yeah. They

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Speaker 1: crossed up Jeff and and he went down and hit

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Speaker 1: a three. I mean, he was incredible. And the thing

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Speaker 1: that was unique about Randolph was he was their point guard.

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Speaker 1: Although I don't know if he was necessarily a true

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Speaker 1: point guard. He's a great guard. So he was scowed

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Speaker 1: with the ball in his hands, but when he gave

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Speaker 1: it up, he became a scorer. So all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: like you know, you and I were used to pressuring

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Speaker 1: the ball, not necessarily chasing somebody off the screens. A

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Speaker 1: lot of most point guards don't necessarily do that. And

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Speaker 1: he was monster to guard. He was. And so we

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Speaker 1: were off at half time and we were I want

385
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: to say double figures at halftime. It's like, oh my gosh,

386
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Speaker 1: like this, we're gonna do it. And we weren't a

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00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: we we had a bad record, but we were we

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Speaker 1: we were not a bad team. Uh So, like we're

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Speaker 1: gonna come to half does and we're gonna beat like Forest,

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Speaker 1: and then Randolph just absolutely dominated, you know, took off

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Speaker 1: and then never looked back in that tournament. So we

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Speaker 1: lost and that was That was the end of that

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Speaker 1: season and and really kind of the beginning of a

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Speaker 1: rebirth of of the program. Fox Sports Radio has the

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00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of

396
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within

397
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to

398
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: listen live. How did you guys turn around? Um? Well,

399
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: you know what didn't happened necessarily quickly for the you know,

400
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 1: the standards of Duke right. It wasn't like next year

401
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: we were national champion contenders. We were probably and I

402
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: say this, and then guys I played with would probably agree,

403
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: probably the least talented do team uh in a long time.

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00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: I mean we were playing Stan Bronson, who was a

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00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: soccer player meaningful minutes, Chris Collins, Jeff Cape and I

406
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Speaker 1: Ricky Trajan was out because he had a knee injury

407
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: and you read shirted that year Greg Newton, uh, Tony Moore,

408
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: Stan Brunton and not necessarily not not household names by

409
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: any stretch, not your Grant Hill. He go, like you remember,

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00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: remember remember that team? Yeah? And so you got it?

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00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: I remember, I'm I'm looking you guys got it going

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Speaker 1: late in the year, like you got it, you gotta

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Speaker 1: you gotta roll one five and rows kind of late

414
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Speaker 1: in the year. You beat U C l A. Late

415
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Speaker 1: in the year. They weren't great, but you were, but

416
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: you beat you swept Maryland like you kind of got

417
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Speaker 1: it going. We did, and uh, Chris Collins had an

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Speaker 1: incredible senior year and we were I think we were

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Speaker 1: owing four in the A C. C. And it's like

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Speaker 1: here we go again. No now, granted, like look this

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Speaker 1: this goes sideways. We may not be having the conversations

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Speaker 1: that we're having this week leading up to two Coach

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Speaker 1: K's uh you know final game and Cameron, now he

424
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: would have figured it out, but he's just that good.

425
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: But it may look different than it books. Now. We

426
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: were owing four playing the NY State and you know

427
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: it's a last second game, and uh, we were gonna

428
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: it was the balls in Chris's hands and we're gonna

429
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: run exchange, which is basically a Wayne drivel handoff, uh

430
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: and open the floor for Ricky and Chris skips hand

431
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: off and we're down too and pulls like a twenty

432
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: six ft three that hit the rim like four times.

433
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you know there's certain times in your life

434
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: where like time stops or those in slow motion. When

435
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: he shot at probably lasted a second and a half,

436
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: it felt like it lasted for ten minutes because the

437
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: ball was on the rim forever, so it bounces, bounces, bounces,

438
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: Roles goes in and there's like six seconds left, so

439
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: we're off one. But our team starts celebrating like we

440
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: won the game, like literally on the game, like we're

441
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: going eight ship nuts and Todd Fuller inbounds at the

442
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: Curtis Marshall and he dribbles the length of the six

443
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: seconds left, dribbles. The left of the floor has pretty

444
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: much a bare grass, open layout, and it toilet bowls

445
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: and rolls out and we win the game. We win

446
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: the game, and you know we ended up that started

447
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: the streak. I think we went like four in a row,

448
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: so we got back to great and then we lost

449
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: a bunch in a row, and then we finished where

450
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: we had to really finish. UH finished the year winning

451
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: all our games in order to make the tournament, and

452
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: we did. We did, and UH ended up making the

453
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: n C A Tournament as a team that was Chris

454
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: had broken his foot. I got a high I started

455
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: the game in it in the a C tournament is

456
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: Chris couldn't play because he get a broken foot, and

457
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: played really well for about five minutes and then landed

458
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: on being a Keasy's foot and had a high ankle

459
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: sprain which put me on crutches for like six weeks.

460
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: I mean we were our team was was hanging on

461
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: by its thread. But that team, really, I believe, and

462
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: I may be wrong in this and people may have

463
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: different opinions, like that team is even though we weren't talented,

464
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: we were tough, and we were incredibly together, and we

465
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: knew what was on the line, like we knew that

466
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: the name on the front of the jersey was on

467
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: the line. And even though we were playing against teams

468
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: that were a lot more talented, because again, at that point,

469
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: the A c C was freaking loaded. Yes, I mean loaded,

470
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: I mean Bobby Sir Edwards, Carolina's guys, Maryland, Virginia, Coorey

471
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: Alex loaded. And we made the n A Tournament, which

472
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: for that team was probably, especially given the injuries we

473
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 1: had at the end of the year, was probably its ceiling.

474
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: And they ran into Errol Bunkins and Eastern Michigan and

475
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: they beat us. But if you early in the SEC season,

476
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: if you would have said you could get to make

477
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: the n A Tournament, I think we all would have

478
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: been like, sign me up. What was what was Coach

479
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: k like during that year after having missed so much

480
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: time in the previous year. I mean, I think I

481
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: think he was he was great. I mean, he was intense,

482
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: he was focused, he coached it's hard, he demanded a

483
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: lot from us. But I think he also knew like

484
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: he had a group that was gonna fight for Duke,

485
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: which is you know, at the end of it, that's

486
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: what coach wants. He wants you to fight together for

487
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: the name on the front of the jersey. And that

488
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: group did it. And did we have all the weapons

489
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: of the talent that some of the teams before us had.

490
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: We did not. We did not, But that part of

491
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: the mission we executed, and I think he was. I

492
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: hope he's proud of that team, even though he wouldn't

493
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: trade that roster for any of the rosters that he's

494
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: had recently, that's for sure. When was there ever, when

495
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: you're playing with Kenny Blake and you're playing with Chris

496
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: and yourself, did you see coaching as like a path

497
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: like was that ever discussed? What did you guys ever

498
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: sit around and and talk. I mean the fact that

499
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: there's so many head coaches on that staff, I mean,

500
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: on that roster was that ever a part of your

501
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: thinking or you're interaction with each other. Yeah, I don't

502
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: remember having specific conversations to that end. I mean, obviously

503
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: Chris Uh, you know, came from a coaching family, and

504
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: Kenny played for a great high school coach. And I

505
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: was fortunate me really from the time I was a

506
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: little guy through high school to play for great coaches.

507
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: I mean, outside of my family, the people that have

508
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: had the biggest impact on my life, for my coaches.

509
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: So you don't get for me. I thought, I loved

510
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: the high school coach and try to have the impact

511
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: that you know, my high school coach had on me.

512
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: I mean that was kind of my thought process during

513
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: that time. I don't remember stific conversations like you know,

514
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: thirty years from now, like we're all gonna be coaching

515
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: in college. Um, you know, I don't think young brains

516
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: worked that way, right, Like no, no, but but like

517
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: I'll just tell you, Like so when we were playing,

518
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: like me and Joe Atkins when I was at Oaklhoma State,

519
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: we we were we were both like we knew it

520
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: was gonna be Sean's job, so we were we would

521
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: both like kind of angle for the like, Hey, if

522
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: I come back, I want to be offensive coordine or

523
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: you can coach defense. I want to coach like you

524
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: do the defense and stuff. Um, but I just I

525
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: do wonder your I will you you're you get to

526
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: your So the next year, you guys turn it. You

527
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: guys in the a sec right, and then but you didn't,

528
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: you took a transfer. And that was your Shawan sitting

529
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: out your sophomore year. He was yes, which is I

530
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: think he was the first transfer, wasn't he? He was, yes,

531
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: he was the first trancher. They were bruited him. Again,

532
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: I was playing, so I wasn't involved in any of

533
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: this in high school. Played obviously for Bobby's dad at St. Anthony's,

534
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: so they were recruiting him. Um and and I mean,

535
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: in all honesty, we needed we need more talent. Yeah,

536
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: you know. So sometimes when you need more talent and

537
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: it's not available to you in the normal way you

538
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: do things recruiting high school players, then you you need

539
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: to look at other other things. And yeah, Rashaw I

540
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: was sitting out. But after my sophomore year, I remember

541
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: having a meeting with coaching the Lounge and basically coaching

542
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: the lounge yeah. Um, And basically the gist of the

543
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: meeting was like, what you've done, it's not good enough

544
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: and if you continue to do it, like you should

545
00:31:53,320 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: probably do it somewhere else. And you know, like that

546
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: was really hard meeting for me. And who's in the meeting.

547
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: You know, there's just him and I, nobody else, nobody

548
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: else ka, And you know it was a hard meeting,

549
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: but it was a needing meeting I needed, you know,

550
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: like there's there I think it any time you changed

551
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: levels in anything, what allowed you to be good at

552
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: one level doesn't necessarily guarantee success at the next. And

553
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, you get to college and and my two

554
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: years to that point hadn't gone necessarily the plan um,

555
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: and I was responsible for that. Like there were things

556
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: that I needed to do to give myself the best

557
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: chance of helping the team and maxing out who I was.

558
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: And one of those the first thing was getting in

559
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: better shape. Um, you know, like in order for me

560
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: to compete against the athletes that we competed again, Uh,

561
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: the advantage I had to have was endurance and conditioning

562
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: because you know, I mean I could wear jump shoes, uh,

563
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, twelve hours a day, like I wasn't. It

564
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 1: wasn't like at some point I was going to be

565
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: playing above the rim or. But I could. I could

566
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: wear people down, uh with my conditioning and my effort

567
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: because I was I was good at that. It was

568
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 1: good like the effort piece I was good at, but

569
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: I didn't have the condition to sustain it to where

570
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: it was an advantage, you know. And so I ended

571
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: up losing probably you know, playing my sophomore year probably

572
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: at about a hundred and ninety pounds, and I played.

573
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: I started my junior year at about a hundred and seventy. Wow,

574
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: and I was. I was in. Uh, I was in.

575
00:33:53,320 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: I love it. I was in. I got an incredible shape. Uh.

576
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: Improved my my ball handling, not necessarily like my ability

577
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: to do ball handling drills, but my understanding of pace,

578
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: because I think when you're not you're not a great athlete.

579
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: You have to have incredible the answer machine too, it's amazing.

580
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: Yeah to me, I told my dad I was on

581
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: a radio show, because if I told him I was

582
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: on a podcast, Like, what the hell is that? Uh? So,

583
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: so he walked in earlier, he looked and he's probably

584
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: thinking it's going on, like he's he's there's a guy

585
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: you can see his face, Like what kind of radio

586
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: is that? So? So con conditioning you had to do

587
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: ball handling, don't. But but like the ability to control pace, right,

588
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: Like if it was a matter of going fast, people

589
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: could go fast, but if I could learn how to

590
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: change speeds and create space, like that was gonna be

591
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: my advantage of being able to position the ball where

592
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: he'd be positioned, uh, and then hit it and then

593
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: being able to knock down open shots and then and

594
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: then probably the biggest thing is using my voice like

595
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 1: leading coach. I think that's one of the things Coach

596
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: really liked about me in your cilany was that even

597
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,959
Speaker 1: though the guys didn't speak my language, like I found

598
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: a way to lead on yeah, and and so there

599
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: was there was all those things and uh after the meeting,

600
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: like I had two choices I could say like this

601
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: is this is b s um, But I didn't I

602
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: remember one being hurt, like to have somebody that you

603
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: respect to the ultimate level like I did coach, Like

604
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: I was hurt that he could feel that way about me.

605
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: And then the second thing I felt was I was

606
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: pissed and I wasn't pissed at him. I was pissed

607
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: at me because he was right and committed to that summer,

608
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: like you know what m h like again, it goes

609
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: back like just laying it on the line and see

610
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: where that takes you. I don't know where it's gonna

611
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: take you. You may end up being a backup. I mean,

612
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: it's cards in front of you are really good, but

613
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: like you won't know unless you try. And so I

614
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: committed to that and had a great summer, and summer

615
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: went into fall, and in the fall, I think I

616
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: was probably the expectation was that I would be a

617
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,959
Speaker 1: really good backup point guard, solid, didn't turn it over,

618
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: probably make an open shot, good, good run a team,

619
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: but you know, not somebody necessarily that could be a

620
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: starting guard on the team that had aspirations of being

621
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: a national contender. I attacked. I attacked the fall like crazy.

622
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: And then you're talking about some of my best friends,

623
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: you know, Jeff Capel and Trajan and and those guys

624
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: like and again they were at that time, it's like

625
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: Trajan is gonna be the point and that's I mean,

626
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: Trajan was one of the best shooters in the history

627
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: of college basketball. Being a point guards, not necessarily even

628
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: though he could really handle it. What he you know,

629
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: what he did, and I would pick him up. I

630
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: mean even a pickup games. I picked him up ninety

631
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: four ft um and you know, we keep track of

632
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: who wanted lost and pick up games. And my goal was,

633
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, every time that was posted from my team,

634
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: to be my name, because my teams wanted to be

635
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 1: at the top of the list. And I did that,

636
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: and um, you know, still going in that season, I

637
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: don't I don't think even as we entered exhibition games,

638
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: I don't think I necessarily started. But like I gave Paul,

639
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: like I created the discussion of like this, like if

640
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: you ask his teammates, and coach always used to do this.

641
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: He'd asked, like if if you if you had to

642
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: pick a starting tie for a pickup game, like who

643
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: who would you pick? Because he wanted to see, like

644
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: who the guy stop? And I remember going into my

645
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: meeting that falls like you should know that every one

646
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 1: of your teammates picked you, which was which was essentially

647
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: the goal, right, And so I created a discussion and

648
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: then ended up starting the first game my junior year,

649
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: which I think if you rewound, you know, four months

650
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: earlier people would have sent away, and I played really

651
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: well and never look back. Remember who was the first game? Yeah,

652
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, jose your she Bay. He was a

653
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: good player. Um. But I ended up scoring I had

654
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: at early in the season. I ended up having a

655
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: ton of steals like a you know at seven eight

656
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: steal game like and became the leader. And my teammates

657
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 1: I think ended up trusting me. The guys I thought

658
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 1: I was competing against the Jeff Cables and the Trajans

659
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: for guys I ended up playing with. You know, sometimes

660
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: you think like, well, it's it's you versu him, but

661
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: it's if you're both really good, then you both play.

662
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: Because coaches in like a tradition like he'll play, he'll

663
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: put out line up and he always has put out lineup.

664
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: It's like I'm gonna play my best players. Um your

665
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: junior year, because your first year you beat Carolina and

666
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: beat Carolina. Um, was it as significant then as it

667
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: would seem? Again, total outsider here to the Duke family.

668
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: But having there's there's a lot of things you had

669
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: to achieve. You got to be back the n S

670
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: A tournament year two. Great, you're in the starting spot,

671
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: but hey, you still haven't beat Carolina. Was a significant

672
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: to beat Carolina for the first time you did it? Yeah,

673
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: I think those games are always significant and and the

674
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: fact that they were they were terrific. I mean, that's that.

675
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,720
Speaker 1: But that's like so so at Oklahoma State, right, there's

676
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: the only when I was there, I want to play

677
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: Kansas once a year or unless you played in the

678
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: Big Twelve tournament like they were the they were the standard,

679
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: and then your season was judged. You make the answer touraman,

680
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: how did you against ku? How did you against you? Right? Like,

681
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: even so, I'm just wondering if if that is of

682
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: the junior year, if that's the most vivid memory outside

683
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: of the first start in the first game, Yeah, I

684
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: think that was that was that was significant, right because

685
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: there there I think there's always markers when you're you're

686
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: trying to build something or in this case, trying to

687
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: kind of build it back. There's markers that you uh,

688
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: that you you meet or things that you achieve where

689
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, I mean we may not be where

690
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: we want to be, but we're like we're getting closer.

691
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: And this is a vivid example of why we can

692
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: say that the beating Carolina was one of those things,

693
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, and at that time Wake Forest and Kim

694
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: Duncan was one of those things as well. I mean,

695
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: I can remember we we had lost, we lost a

696
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: bunch of games in a row. The Wake Forest in

697
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: my junior year, played him twice because it was around

698
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: Robin played him at home in the first game and

699
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: then we're gonna go back and play him again. Um

700
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: And at the end of the game there was a

701
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: stop action. There was a stoppage and the officials went

702
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 1: to you know, at that time, I don't even think

703
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: there were TV monitors in the sideline, but something happened

704
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: clock malfunction that Tim got found and he was shooting

705
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: he was supposed to shoot free throws and he sat

706
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: down on the court uh Indian. He sapped down at

707
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: the fallon Indian style, and it was it was in

708
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: our minds, it was like the ultimate sign of disrespect,

709
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: and you know, I remember there being quite a bit

710
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: of emotion around that time. We end up losing the game,

711
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: so followed up and again the path that he's the

712
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: championship at that time went through like Carolina and wait

713
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: for Est because the Tim Duncan. I mean he was

714
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: he was different. So we went down to Wake Forest

715
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: to play the second game with the round robin, and

716
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: I remember in the locker room there was no freaking

717
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: way we were losing the game. I mean, I don't

718
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: I give ship it to Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan,

719
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: Like there was like there was no and and and

720
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: everybody was on board. And it wasn't like a coach

721
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: in frontet like we're not like it was like everybody's like, no,

722
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: we're good, Like we're not losing, Like I think like that,

723
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: that's not like that option is off the table. It's

724
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: off the table. And we ended up winning the game.

725
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: And Chris carrollll was my assistant now as a duke again,

726
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: talked about line up, said Lauren Woods and Tim Duncan

727
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: like twin towers right, Seawell, it's Garden Duncan at the

728
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: five with one good shoulder, and we end up winning

729
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: the game and then fast forward beat Carolina and win

730
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: in the championship, and you know, I think we were

731
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: viewed as contenders, but I don't think people would have

732
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: said the beginning of the year, based upon the talent

733
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: the other teams had and the players that we would

734
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: have won the championship. But that was a significant That

735
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: was another marker of like everybody was hoping they'd go away.

736
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: They're not going away. So that was that was an

737
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: important time. Yeah. Part two is as good as part one. Okay,

738
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: So Part three is coming up next, just so you know.

739
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: We got more, including Dream Team m HM, a deem team,

740
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: and coaching USA Basketball and the things that he remembers

741
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: about it, plus what was it like to be fired?

742
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: You know, what was what's that like? And how long

743
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: are you angry for? Are you still angry? All that

744
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: stuff to come? Oh yeah, and I gotta ask him

745
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: he didn't take the marquettechat, would he be the dukehead coach? Sir?

746
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: Any internal struggle that had he kept coaching at Marquette

747
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: and not lost in Patty? What do you have been

748
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: the duke coach? Now? All that's coming up reminded The

749
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: Doug Gotlin Show Daily three six Eastern twelve three Pacific

750
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio, The I Heart Radio app series

751
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: XM to seventeen and two oh three um subscribe rate,

752
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: write a review, download this thing, tell friends about it.

753
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: I mean, Joe is amazing. I hope you enjoyed it.

754
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: Part three is coming up soon. I'm Doug Gotly. This

755
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: is all all