Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and this is next question.
Speaker 1: The Oscars are on the horizon, and though it's been
Speaker 1: a strange year for the movie industry, the race for
Speaker 1: the Golden Statue is nothing short of historic. Notably, there
Speaker 1: is not one, but two women nominated for Best Director,
Speaker 1: and I know you're probably rolling your eyes at the
Speaker 1: Academy's glacial progressive pace, but it's at least a hopeful sign.
Speaker 1: Those historic directors are Emerald Finell, nominated for Promising Young Woman,
Speaker 1: starring Kerrie mulligan, and Chloe's Ou nominated for Nomad Land,
Speaker 1: which stars Frances McDorman as Fern, a woman living out
Speaker 1: of her van, traveling the country, working seasonal jobs and
Speaker 1: meeting a community of like minded itinerant Americans along the way.
Speaker 1: You are one of those lucky people who can travel anywhere. Yes,
Speaker 1: and they'll sometimes call you no maad my mom. So
Speaker 1: that's your homeless. Who's that true? No, I'm not homeless,
Speaker 1: I'm just houseless. Not the same thing, right. Chloe, I
Speaker 1: should note, is the first woman to receive four nominations
Speaker 1: in a single year and the first non white woman
Speaker 1: to be nominated in the director category, and recently, I
Speaker 1: had the pleasure of speaking with Chloe, as well as
Speaker 1: three producers of Nomad Land, Peter Spears, Molly Asher, and
Speaker 1: Dan Jampi, about this extraordinarily beautiful and strangely prescient film. Peter,
Speaker 1: let me start with you. You and Francis option Nomad Land,
Speaker 1: Surviving American the twenty one Century, Frances mcdormomand, who also
Speaker 1: stars in the film. It was written by someone named
Speaker 1: Jessica Brewder, And I'm curious what made you believe that
Speaker 1: this could be translated into film and would actually make
Speaker 1: a really compelling movie. Well, when it was sent to us, uh,
Speaker 1: we read it with an eye to something that Francis
Speaker 1: might play herself in the movie. But Linda May, who
Speaker 1: is the main character of the book, uh, is also
Speaker 1: in our film. But the book itself follows sort of
Speaker 1: the journey of Linda from unemployment to eventually buying some
Speaker 1: land and making an earthship on that land. And I
Speaker 1: think what both Francis and I responded to in that
Speaker 1: book felt like a bit of a flare going up
Speaker 1: while in a warning to us all that that there was,
Speaker 1: as it says in the book that the Titanic is
Speaker 1: going down and that we needed to get the lifeboats ready.
Speaker 1: And I know that the book itself takes place in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, in the in the wake of
Speaker 1: the two thousand and eight recession, but something really felt
Speaker 1: prescient about it in the reading of it in two
Speaker 1: thousands sent team and it felt like, really was something
Speaker 1: afoot in a way that I think we all came
Speaker 1: to realize in the ensuing year was even more widespread
Speaker 1: and deeper than than we had ever had the ability
Speaker 1: to look into a crystal ball and see and when
Speaker 1: you think about Dan, what that was, you know, and
Speaker 1: what this this whole population represented, you know what struck
Speaker 1: you about the message that that their way of life
Speaker 1: and their situation was sending that that Peter talked about.
Speaker 1: But the moment that I became involved in the film,
Speaker 1: Chloe had a very specific vision for the movie and
Speaker 1: one of the primary um one of the primary adaptations
Speaker 1: that Chloe made was creating the character of Firm in
Speaker 1: collaboration with Francis. And so at the moment that we
Speaker 1: entered the film, there was this notion of for and
Speaker 1: going on a journey through the American West following these
Speaker 1: various jobs, and so cinematically. For me, I was quite
Speaker 1: drawn to the idea of new, a new entry from
Speaker 1: Chloe into the American road movie and into the American Western.
Speaker 1: And I felt that Chloe's approach to this, for me,
Speaker 1: I was as much influenced by playing with classic genres
Speaker 1: of American cinema and radically new ways. So fascinating. And
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to Chloe about her vision in
Speaker 1: a moment. But Molly, I'm just curious when you got
Speaker 1: involved in this project, and I think I'm a pretty
Speaker 1: well read person, I didn't realize that there were all
Speaker 1: these nomads traveling across the country from place to place,
Speaker 1: from job to job, from location to location, um, you know,
Speaker 1: really making this very charipatetic life for themselves. And I'm curious, Molly,
Speaker 1: if you were aware of this segment of the population. No, Oh,
Speaker 1: I wasn't at all, and you know, not until reading
Speaker 1: the book and then even more so how striking it
Speaker 1: was then meeting Swanky and then the may and Bob
Speaker 1: Wells and realizing that, like I think what people, the
Speaker 1: notion people might have of someone who lives in their
Speaker 1: van is very different. You know, this could be somebody
Speaker 1: who's sitting next to you at a restaurant, or behind
Speaker 1: you in line at the bank, or you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's um. I found that fascinating and also really um warming. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, initially you think, oh, you'll feel sorry for
Speaker 1: these people, and then you receive the way that they're
Speaker 1: living and how connected they are to both the land
Speaker 1: and ultimately each other. And then I think it gives
Speaker 1: you a brand new perspective. I know, Peter, you and
Speaker 1: Francis or Francis rather was at the Toronto Film Festival
Speaker 1: and you saw the work of a remarkable, uh young
Speaker 1: filmmaker who's drinking her tea right now. Francis came back
Speaker 1: and said, I think we found our director. What was
Speaker 1: it about Chloe in that work? And I promised Chloe,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get team the next your time. But
Speaker 1: what was it about Chloe's work? I believe it was
Speaker 1: a film called Writer. I think the Writer, Yes, and
Speaker 1: Molly was the producer on that as well, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we had really never seen anything quite like it,
Speaker 1: and mine and Francis's experience we had come up in
Speaker 1: a more traditional filmmaking storytelling away and it just it
Speaker 1: blew our socks. Off. We we really were both mesmerized
Speaker 1: by the uh proficient UM way of storytelling, but also
Speaker 1: how immersive the experience was and how strong the filmmaker's
Speaker 1: point of view was. And that's always what you're looking
Speaker 1: for when you're looking, uh to find a director for
Speaker 1: a project. And so we reached out to Chloe. We met.
Speaker 1: The three of us, Chloe, Francis, and I met on
Speaker 1: the afternoon of the Independent Spirit Awards in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: that year. All three of us had been working on
Speaker 1: separate films. UH. I was coming off Called Me by
Speaker 1: Your Name, and Francis doing three Billboards and and Chloe
Speaker 1: was just beginning UH with Molly the The The Ride.
Speaker 1: You know, these sort of awards season right for for
Speaker 1: the writer. And we decided then and there that we
Speaker 1: wanted to make this film. But it was Chloe who
Speaker 1: suggested to us that instead of a straightforward adaptation, perhaps
Speaker 1: the movie was more in the style of of the
Speaker 1: way she had made her earlier two movies and UH
Speaker 1: and we were very, very excited, And the next day
Speaker 1: she was off packed her car and was driving to
Speaker 1: the Rubber Tramp Rendezvous to meet Bob Wells and Linda
Speaker 1: and all the folks there and uh, we were off
Speaker 1: and running. So Chloe, finally, um, tell me when you
Speaker 1: first of all, when you get when you met with
Speaker 1: Peter and Francis. I'm such a huge Francis M. Dormant fan.
Speaker 1: I love her work. I admire everything about her and
Speaker 1: had the the privilege of interviewing her on multiple occasions.
Speaker 1: And I'm just curious when you were sitting there talking
Speaker 1: with them, I mean, how cool was that? Chloe? You
Speaker 1: have interviewed her, you know, you know, you can't keep
Speaker 1: your eyes off of her. She has that she has
Speaker 1: that ability to just draw you in, you know, because
Speaker 1: she is very, very curious about people and about the
Speaker 1: world around her, which makes her makes her not only
Speaker 1: great actress, but a really great producer in that sense.
Speaker 1: I think instinctually when she saw the writer, she thought, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe there's another way to to to do this, you know,
Speaker 1: So it was it was exciting. So when you thought
Speaker 1: about us not doing a straightforward adaptation, but doing something
Speaker 1: altogether different and so visually I think original. Tell me
Speaker 1: when when you when you first conceived of that, how
Speaker 1: would you describe the way you wanted this film to
Speaker 1: unfold and the way you wanted to share the stories
Speaker 1: of the nomads in it, including firm of course, Well
Speaker 1: for me making these decisions are we're such um, we're
Speaker 1: always such a god. Feeling very hard to pimp on
Speaker 1: why and how until later when the film is done,
Speaker 1: And why I realized when normal and went out into
Speaker 1: the world is that people really take away different things,
Speaker 1: drastically different messages from the film and different experiences. And
Speaker 1: that's how I felt when I was reading the book.
Speaker 1: Looking back at it, it wasn't just one thing, you
Speaker 1: know there because Jessica did a great job of capturing. Yes,
Speaker 1: there was an event that led to everyone in the
Speaker 1: book to to make choices and or or to have
Speaker 1: to to do something different with their lives, but that
Speaker 1: brings out different humanity and different kind of human struggle
Speaker 1: in each of them, and that diversity was so interesting
Speaker 1: to me that I didn't want to I want us
Speaker 1: to be able to create a character that can allow
Speaker 1: me to bring as many aspects of that those stories
Speaker 1: as possible. You see that this is my husband's old
Speaker 1: fishing box. I put this whole latch on it, and
Speaker 1: then when I opened it, the stopper holds it and
Speaker 1: creates more counter space, and then I keep my really
Speaker 1: nice stuff inside my dishes that my dad gave me.
Speaker 1: He collected theesel into may from yard sales, and when
Speaker 1: I graduated from high school, he gave me the whole set.
Speaker 1: Is it that great? Yeah, it's called Automn. I don't
Speaker 1: have that many pieces with me. But you know what
Speaker 1: did you name your van Vanguard? Ah? That is very strong?
Speaker 1: She is. Mhm. It's such a quiet, contemplative movie, which
Speaker 1: I think the power is almost in the the quiet
Speaker 1: of the film. And uh and and I think Fern
Speaker 1: character remains somewhat an enigma throughout it. Um, kind of
Speaker 1: understanding her and her motivations, you kind of put the
Speaker 1: pieces together. But um, how much was Francis involved with
Speaker 1: really kind of infusing Burn? Because Burn is a little
Speaker 1: bit of Francis, and Francis is a little bit of Fern, right, Chloe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think friend said she takes a little bit of
Speaker 1: a character that she played with her every time. So
Speaker 1: now so in a way, Firn is also a little
Speaker 1: bit of every character she's ever played, so because she
Speaker 1: really lives her art, you know, so, I think she
Speaker 1: always said I didn't become an actual stuff my pictures taken.
Speaker 1: I think I'm actress to to live different lives. And
Speaker 1: Frannon was very much involved in creating firm the way
Speaker 1: that I really heavily on the non professional actors that
Speaker 1: work with in creating their characters. Uh yeah, so everything
Speaker 1: from the way she moved her her outfit to her hair,
Speaker 1: to the things that she bring into the vent, which
Speaker 1: if you only bring fifties things with you, they say
Speaker 1: a lot about who you are. And that was a
Speaker 1: big part of friends contribution as well. I'm curious about
Speaker 1: working with performers and non actors. And and I know
Speaker 1: that there were some people from the book Swanky I
Speaker 1: know and Linda May were in the book Nomad Land,
Speaker 1: which I'm dying to read, which I haven't read but
Speaker 1: I'm going to read. But um, you found them because
Speaker 1: they were characters, as as we mentioned in Jessica Brewder's book.
Speaker 1: But there were also a lot of other characters as well.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, who have you really had to I know,
Speaker 1: all of you in a way embedded yourselves into these worlds,
Speaker 1: into these communities, almost as if you were making a documentary.
Speaker 1: And in some ways it was a weird. I think
Speaker 1: hybrid of both film and documentary UM and and how
Speaker 1: challenging was that to a when the trust of those
Speaker 1: people and a film and these real locations where you
Speaker 1: had a lot of authenticity about the life they were leading.
Speaker 1: I think well as far as like how the how
Speaker 1: the other UM actors came to be, there was kind
Speaker 1: of we did it in sort of three different ways.
Speaker 1: One of them is that we had you know, traditional
Speaker 1: sort of open calls in various areas. And then we
Speaker 1: also had UM two people who were doing local casting,
Speaker 1: and they were actually also combining location scouting and local
Speaker 1: casting um and in that sense, so that's that's actually
Speaker 1: how we found Derek the Young Traveler in the film UM.
Speaker 1: And then the other part was just specifically for the
Speaker 1: r TR was you know, get getting getting advice from
Speaker 1: Linda May, Swanky, Jessica possibly other nomads that might like
Speaker 1: to be in the film, reaching out and then and
Speaker 1: then sort of you know, becoming part becoming part of
Speaker 1: the community as much as we could, which is I
Speaker 1: think then how UM there was this this trust and
Speaker 1: comfortable feeling once we run set and working with everyone.
Speaker 1: I actually think that is also a really good at
Speaker 1: talking about better than me this fine line between the
Speaker 1: documentary aspect and the fictional aspect, which the trick is
Speaker 1: always making you feel like it feels like a documentary,
Speaker 1: but it actually the work went into it is not
Speaker 1: like that at all. Damn sure. Yeah, and Chloe, I
Speaker 1: think it's one of your The most miraculous aspects of
Speaker 1: how you make movies is for me, the degree to
Speaker 1: which you give people an experience as if this is
Speaker 1: really happening. That's that's the magic trick, is that the
Speaker 1: end result is the movie feels lived in. And I
Speaker 1: think when people talk about documentary, they're talking about a
Speaker 1: sense of, um, a notion of this is the world
Speaker 1: that we live in, this is a real world. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's absolutely a goal of the work
Speaker 1: is to give the end result. From a production standpoint,
Speaker 1: I think that we actually there's an unbelief. Like any
Speaker 1: great magic trick, there's an unbelievable amount of things happening
Speaker 1: off stage, blow stage, and with the group around us
Speaker 1: kind of end up without illusion. Um. So the best
Speaker 1: example is the RTR festival that's in our movie is
Speaker 1: actually a staged RTR. And I think that what's interesting
Speaker 1: about this way of making movies is like any great
Speaker 1: magic trick, the boundaries start to get blurred. So you
Speaker 1: stage in our tr means you you cast the performers,
Speaker 1: you bring them to a site that you control, but
Speaker 1: then the performers end up actually end up having their
Speaker 1: own r TR. And then on top of that, Chloe
Speaker 1: and Josh's shooting style is actually very fiction cinema based,
Speaker 1: like the references that they would use, like Chloe, the
Speaker 1: one that's always stood out to me as One car
Speaker 1: Wise Happy Together, which is one of my favorite movies,
Speaker 1: are your your visual language references are not documentary cinema
Speaker 1: at all. It's actual narrative storytelling and then combined with
Speaker 1: your incredible sense of how the footage is going to
Speaker 1: end up in the edit. So I think that the
Speaker 1: whole experience is about creating an infrastructure to end up
Speaker 1: with that magic trick of and and I would add
Speaker 1: to that that meanwhile, while all that's going on, Chloe
Speaker 1: has created this bond with the not with the performers
Speaker 1: Francis and David, but and also the non performers. Where
Speaker 1: because the footprint of the movie and the crew is
Speaker 1: so small, because we've all been living together for so long, uh,
Speaker 1: that they trust implicitly and so with compassion and pat
Speaker 1: patients and and the ability to just want to listen
Speaker 1: and hear the stories from, you know, just the deepest
Speaker 1: parts of their beings they that they offer up. Uh.
Speaker 1: And with the camera there and all the other things,
Speaker 1: it's it's it melts away. And I see performers who
Speaker 1: have performed for decades who who don't have the kind
Speaker 1: of comfort that that Chloe is able to create in
Speaker 1: the space for for non performers and performers alike. And
Speaker 1: that's the last part I think of the magic trick
Speaker 1: that Chloe does. I'm gonna be seventy five this year,
Speaker 1: and i think I've lived a pretty good life. I've
Speaker 1: seen some really neat things kayaking all those places, and
Speaker 1: you know, like moose in the wild, a moose family
Speaker 1: on a river in Idaho, and um, big white pelicans
Speaker 1: landing just six ft over my kayak on a lake
Speaker 1: in Colorado. Or um come around it been was a
Speaker 1: cliff and find hundreds and hundreds of swallow nests on
Speaker 1: the on the wall of the cliff, and the swallows
Speaker 1: flying all around and reflecting in the water. So it
Speaker 1: looks like I'm flying with the swallows, and they're under
Speaker 1: me and over me and all around me, and little
Speaker 1: babies are hatching out and eggshells are falling out of
Speaker 1: the nest, landing on the water and floating on the
Speaker 1: water these little white chills. It was like, it's just
Speaker 1: so awesome. I felt like I've done enough. My life
Speaker 1: was complete If I died right right then that moment
Speaker 1: perfectly fine. And when they're speaking, a lot of it
Speaker 1: is is it not scripted? It's just them telling their stories.
Speaker 1: Chloe about who they are and what their wishes are,
Speaker 1: and Linda May talking about her situation or Swanky and
Speaker 1: you know, all the different people. Kind of I'm just
Speaker 1: curious how much of it was action that you just
Speaker 1: kind of set up and let the let the people
Speaker 1: go with it and share, or how much it was actually,
Speaker 1: you know, orchestrated dialogue. I got the feeling and maybe
Speaker 1: this is part of the magic too, that it was
Speaker 1: just people talking about their lives and somehow it all
Speaker 1: just worked together beautifully. Can you explain how that worked?
Speaker 1: That that somehow is the uh, the magic trick part,
Speaker 1: Because if you just show up and have people talk
Speaker 1: about their lives, what you're gonna end up is our.
Speaker 1: I mean, hundreds of hours of footage has had nothing
Speaker 1: to do with your film. So the process is actually
Speaker 1: really straightforward. People ask me how do you work with
Speaker 1: non professional actors? I said, you start with the writing, right.
Speaker 1: You have to know for a movie what's the main
Speaker 1: emotional art, and then you need to pick moments that
Speaker 1: are going to supplement this main emotional arc. You can't
Speaker 1: go off, you know, Linda main swan Ki talking about
Speaker 1: something nothing to do with the Ferns plot, but it
Speaker 1: has to have something to do with Firn's plot on
Speaker 1: the very deep level. So then you pick your non
Speaker 1: professional actors. First of all, they have to be okay
Speaker 1: on a camera. You put a camera on them right away,
Speaker 1: let them speak and see if there I can't do
Speaker 1: it right and uh and so then when and then
Speaker 1: you spend days with them and sometimes just a few
Speaker 1: hours because us all the time we have. And then
Speaker 1: you you listen really really carefully of what they're really
Speaker 1: trying to say about themselves, and then you do a
Speaker 1: lot of that too. You know, I'm sure you know
Speaker 1: what how that feels that you have to really go
Speaker 1: beyond because people have a lot of wars they put up.
Speaker 1: And then that's where you have to push a little
Speaker 1: further and go, but tell me about that day. And
Speaker 1: then and then when you hear these things and you
Speaker 1: go out, that is really going to that's going to
Speaker 1: represent what who they really want to say about who
Speaker 1: they are. And then that's also gonna work for first
Speaker 1: Journey because the audience has to care in that moment
Speaker 1: because they're invested in furns, so they have to care
Speaker 1: what Swan kid is going to say for that moment
Speaker 1: to feel emotional. So I put those words, those specific
Speaker 1: lines onto the script and then my DP is gonna
Speaker 1: read it, and and you know, my producer gonna they
Speaker 1: are gonna read it and go and my my sound
Speaker 1: you know wolf are our sound recorders make He's gonna
Speaker 1: read it. We're all gonna come come to the place
Speaker 1: and go, how do we cinematically best put this moment
Speaker 1: on screen? And now that day, Swanky already know this
Speaker 1: part of her own life. That's when instead of hiring
Speaker 1: an actor who talked to Swanky and and do the scenes,
Speaker 1: She's going to do it herself. So on that day
Speaker 1: for her, you know, the producers has created environment where
Speaker 1: I feel that it's just in her space that she's
Speaker 1: not being asked to come to a stage. You know,
Speaker 1: with all these lights on her. Our DP has done
Speaker 1: a great job, our sound makes us done a great job,
Speaker 1: And in that moment, she's feels like she's just living
Speaker 1: her own story. But everything else around her is carefully
Speaker 1: planned so that you could make into the film later.
Speaker 1: I'm meaning something. I learned that from my first film,
Speaker 1: where I thought spontaneous means not planning, and I mean, like,
Speaker 1: you know, go with the flow, let's just show up
Speaker 1: and do it. And then when I also work on
Speaker 1: the edit my first film and realized it's great stuff,
Speaker 1: but it had nothing to do with the film, and
Speaker 1: no one's gonna care. So we'll be right back with
Speaker 1: more Nomad Land in just a moment. I know you've
Speaker 1: all traveled all over. It was shot over six months
Speaker 1: in starting in September two thous eighteen in South Dakota
Speaker 1: for the scenes in the bad Lands and at Wall
Speaker 1: Drug then onto Nebraska, Nevada, UH, the Northern California Coast, Yuma, Arizona,
Speaker 1: and then San Bernardino County. Was it tough moving around
Speaker 1: so much? I know you worked with a pretty small crew. Um,
Speaker 1: and I also know that you kind of lived the
Speaker 1: way the Nomads lived in the process of making this film,
Speaker 1: which must have brought you even closer to to the
Speaker 1: story and to the narrative. But was that challenge Peter
Speaker 1: just slept in all of the country right specifically, was
Speaker 1: it was it hard for you? Uh? You know, I
Speaker 1: think I jokingly say I'm the only eagle scout in
Speaker 1: the world who ever managed to get a badge without camping.
Speaker 1: You know, it was that never my thing, but I
Speaker 1: immediately Chloe had this idea with in conjunction with all
Speaker 1: the producers that because she and Molly uh and and
Speaker 1: Josh the DP had had made movies together before the
Speaker 1: rest of us were new to this process and and
Speaker 1: she needed to quickly kind of get us up and
Speaker 1: running in the style of of how we were gonna
Speaker 1: make this movie so that that hitting together in September.
Speaker 1: Beside needing some summer shots seasonally, she also had had
Speaker 1: the thought that this would be a good boot camp
Speaker 1: for for us all to learn her the language of
Speaker 1: how she does this and to learn about you know, magic,
Speaker 1: our hustle and all the other sorts of components, So
Speaker 1: that when we got to the winter part of the movie,
Speaker 1: which was going to be a lot more extreme and
Speaker 1: shorter days, colder days, and much more emotional material we
Speaker 1: were going to be dealing with, we had we had
Speaker 1: a little more of that muscle memory that the rest
Speaker 1: of the rest of that group had already brought to
Speaker 1: the proceedings, So that that helped a lot. That was
Speaker 1: a big help in the process. Molly, want to add
Speaker 1: to that, what what it was like for you hearings
Speaker 1: of all this travel and kind of indoctrinating you into
Speaker 1: these different areas and with with a new set of
Speaker 1: people or in some cases some of the same people.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm um. Well, another thing I think that came
Speaker 1: out of the first the sort of UM boot camp
Speaker 1: that that Peter mentioned was that also like logistically too,
Speaker 1: we're kind of testing, you know, do we have the
Speaker 1: right kinds of vehicles, Like do we have we need
Speaker 1: more crew, you know, for the next time that we're
Speaker 1: going out, and so so some things were adjusted, you
Speaker 1: know specifically, remember our are one of the equipment fans UM,
Speaker 1: and then you know, going place to place. As as
Speaker 1: to just the planning of it UM, it's sort of
Speaker 1: just like planning a an out of town shoot, but
Speaker 1: you just are traveling, you know, multiple times, rather than
Speaker 1: just you know, going to that one place and staying there.
Speaker 1: But it was incredible how different each place was, and
Speaker 1: you know, not only the environment, but but the people.
Speaker 1: And I think that that also, you know that I
Speaker 1: think you feel that when when you're watching the film,
Speaker 1: that it's not only the landscape that's changing, but also
Speaker 1: the people that are of this landscape. I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I think the landscape itself and the land really is
Speaker 1: such a character in this film in every and every
Speaker 1: possible way. And Chloe AM curious how you were able
Speaker 1: to translate a certain emotional connection connectivity to the land
Speaker 1: the people on it and and if you, in fact
Speaker 1: saw I saw it as almost a character in and
Speaker 1: of itself. I think it definitely is, you know, and
Speaker 1: it is something that I was now. I grew up
Speaker 1: in big cities, I live in big cities in most
Speaker 1: of my life, and I definitely felt the lack of
Speaker 1: um connection with nature is something that is problematic in
Speaker 1: my life. And making these last three films to experience
Speaker 1: the natural environments through my character's perspective and see how
Speaker 1: important the natural world is for their healing process, for
Speaker 1: for them to have space rediscover themselves. Um, these are
Speaker 1: incredible experiences I get to have. UM and so uh
Speaker 1: to understand why Swanky will give up the comfort of
Speaker 1: a home in the suburb and go live in the
Speaker 1: desert of Arizona, you really have to capture the soundset
Speaker 1: the way she sees it. He will never be as
Speaker 1: beautiful as she sees it. Well, we try, and and
Speaker 1: speaking of Swanky and and Linda, me and everyone else,
Speaker 1: was it hard to you know, as a journalist, I
Speaker 1: have to earn someone's trust, especially if it's a sensitive
Speaker 1: story about a life experience or you know, about their
Speaker 1: very way of life or something traumatic that happens to them.
Speaker 1: And I I'm curious how you know. It's one thing
Speaker 1: to to share your story with someone writing a book, right,
Speaker 1: It's a whole another thing to be on film, to
Speaker 1: have your face shown, to talk to have to kind
Speaker 1: of recount your life experience. Was it hard to win
Speaker 1: the trust of some of these people because I know
Speaker 1: you didn't have all the time in the world. And
Speaker 1: did anyone say I don't want to I don't want
Speaker 1: to be a part of this. Uh, they felt maybe
Speaker 1: they were going to be exploited it or more made
Speaker 1: fun of or be kind of an oddity. And I'm
Speaker 1: just curious how how you were able to do that.
Speaker 1: I think definitely, you know, there there were people that
Speaker 1: weren't sure, you know, and even had questions with me
Speaker 1: talking about it on the morning of the shoe, especially
Speaker 1: the people who had to share some really personal things
Speaker 1: and sometimes their friends are surprised while you did it,
Speaker 1: you know, even right there, Um, I have to just
Speaker 1: I know that when I go to bed at night,
Speaker 1: I can I can go to sleep like I I
Speaker 1: have to because you can't. Um, you have to set
Speaker 1: a moral standard for yourself, and you you go by
Speaker 1: that day after day. And I think, if you're truthful
Speaker 1: and you're authentic, and you go in there trying to
Speaker 1: relate to another human being as a human being now
Speaker 1: with an agenda, I think they would feel it deep inside.
Speaker 1: They would feel And the people who are too guarded,
Speaker 1: they're not going to come to to our lives anyways.
Speaker 1: Because we are a fictional film making team, we invite
Speaker 1: people to come in would you like to be in
Speaker 1: the movie? To act? So if they really resistant, if
Speaker 1: they wouldn't even come anywhere near us, And so we're
Speaker 1: halfway there, and with Jessica, who have gotten to know
Speaker 1: everyone for so long, and we always go to her
Speaker 1: and said, do you think this is someone that we
Speaker 1: even feel comfortable sharing their stories? And you can never
Speaker 1: completely prepare someone how they're going to react. In the
Speaker 1: very end, you just have to be truthful and hope
Speaker 1: for the best. So far, we have had great experiences
Speaker 1: making three films with nonprofessional actors like Swanky would let
Speaker 1: me know a couple of days ago, I was now
Speaker 1: prepared for the size of my rain call on an
Speaker 1: Imax screen. She's seen it so many times in Imax now.
Speaker 1: She was like, do you know big those rain calls are? Chloe, Uh,
Speaker 1: that's as much of a come ony I think I got.
Speaker 1: I think another factor from is that you set a
Speaker 1: tone for the rest of the crew, because from a
Speaker 1: production standpoint, I'm always struck by the question of what
Speaker 1: it's like to work with nonprofessional performers because for us,
Speaker 1: they are our stars, they are actors. And I think
Speaker 1: that Chloe's relationship and Josh's relationship with them is on
Speaker 1: a spiritual level of storyteller to human and human to storyteller.
Speaker 1: But it sets a tone for the rest of the
Speaker 1: crew to kind of create a comfortable environment for our performers.
Speaker 1: And I know that for the Nomadland Company, they loved
Speaker 1: being with Bob and Swanky and Linda May. I think
Speaker 1: Chloe that comes from the tone of like, these are
Speaker 1: these people are part of our filmmaking family, and it's
Speaker 1: just the whole The whole entity exists to kind of
Speaker 1: create a culture of comfort where people can be themselves
Speaker 1: in vulnerable and acts. And I remember Bob said after
Speaker 1: the screening, he's I just feel like we were all
Speaker 1: filming Curse where we're a team telling these story stories
Speaker 1: together because they knew we needed them. Swankie needs to
Speaker 1: show us where the place that we can film in
Speaker 1: the desert that has this cactus bulb is going to
Speaker 1: help us get in touch with two of their friends
Speaker 1: who are going to be able to do the solar thing,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's really a group of filmmakers. We
Speaker 1: treat our non professional actors very much as uh, someone
Speaker 1: who can help us with your resources as well. So
Speaker 1: it was very much a team work. And and talk
Speaker 1: about maybe Peter the role France slashed Fern. You know
Speaker 1: how she kind of obviously she's the epicenter of this film,
Speaker 1: but how her story, um is the connected tissue to
Speaker 1: talk about the major thing, And I'm going to ask
Speaker 1: you about the major things of the movie next, but
Speaker 1: to kind of to put everything together and to be
Speaker 1: almost the the wheel is everyone else are the spokes
Speaker 1: if you will? Does that make sense? Or what is
Speaker 1: the thing in the center of the wheel? Would that be?
Speaker 1: What is that called the center again? The eagles scout
Speaker 1: who has no idea? What that? You know? The thing
Speaker 1: in the middle of the wheel, I'll call the mechanic?
Speaker 1: Um uh, you know. I look, I think this is
Speaker 1: also something Chloe can speak to as well. And I'll
Speaker 1: try to spey. I wouldn't, you know, to speak for Francis,
Speaker 1: but I feel when I've heard her speak about this,
Speaker 1: you know, um in so many ways. From the very
Speaker 1: beginning of the creation of the movie, Francis first said
Speaker 1: to Chloe, you know, I've always had this dream that
Speaker 1: someday I'm going to hit the road and with a
Speaker 1: bottle of Jack Daniels and a pack of Lucky Strikes
Speaker 1: and and leave my husband and and and call myself
Speaker 1: you know, change my name to Fern and and head
Speaker 1: off into the world. So she she got to do that.
Speaker 1: And in a sort of way, and and and Chloe
Speaker 1: and she really together in this collaboration to create the
Speaker 1: space where she is living these days, not as Francis
Speaker 1: the actor, but as as Frances Fern. Francis the person
Speaker 1: who is literally driving all the mind anywhere that van went.
Speaker 1: For five months, Francis was driving that van, and Francis was,
Speaker 1: you know, living the life of of these same people
Speaker 1: that we were all sort of amongst and with. So she,
Speaker 1: in so many ways was the glue. Not because she
Speaker 1: came in as the performer and was doing something other
Speaker 1: or something that felt artificial. She had completely immersed herself
Speaker 1: into this world in a way that in many scenes
Speaker 1: many people didn't even know she was Frances When we
Speaker 1: would arrive and left, they didn't know it was even
Speaker 1: Francis McDorman, or they didn't know who Francis McDorman was.
Speaker 1: UH And and and that was sort of the beauty
Speaker 1: I think of of Francis's commitment to UH and her
Speaker 1: ability the other half of great acting is great listening
Speaker 1: and her ability to truly listen and here and want
Speaker 1: to know and want to connect to the people that
Speaker 1: she was she was working shoulder to shoulder with We'll
Speaker 1: be right back. It seemed like Francis's character. It seemed
Speaker 1: as if Fern and so many of the other nomads,
Speaker 1: this is the choice of how they want to live,
Speaker 1: you know. I think, as I said earlier, it's not
Speaker 1: what they're forced to do. And in fact, she couldn't
Speaker 1: deal with being in a comfortable home ah. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to give too much away for people haven't
Speaker 1: seen the film, but that was so oppressive to her uh.
Speaker 1: And I found that so interesting that this is a
Speaker 1: pro wild life choice. It's not a desperate, uh way
Speaker 1: to live. And I think that's one of the big
Speaker 1: at least takeaways that I had, that this is a
Speaker 1: preferred lifestyle and a choice, not as if people don't
Speaker 1: have any other options, but this is a choice. And
Speaker 1: I think that became very clear when when Fern didn't
Speaker 1: want to live in a comfortable house with a dog
Speaker 1: and children running around. And do you think that most
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just so curious about the motivation of
Speaker 1: many of these people to choose this particular lifestyle. What
Speaker 1: what do you think it is Chloe Well First of all,
Speaker 1: I don't think we can. I don't think you can
Speaker 1: spoil No Meland. Okay, okay, because I tried something that
Speaker 1: they people always worry. I don't want to give away.
Speaker 1: I don't think the tension is enough for people jokes aside.
Speaker 1: And I think it's really important for us to and
Speaker 1: I hope No Malan does show that us. It's just
Speaker 1: not in your face, um that even though it is
Speaker 1: a choice for someone like Swanky and firm Bob Wells,
Speaker 1: it's important that they have a choice, you know. I
Speaker 1: think I think it's very important not to um forget
Speaker 1: that many of them were forced into at the beginning
Speaker 1: without a choice. Right. Eventually they learned something about themselves
Speaker 1: and some of them decided, like Linda may no, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna stay stand still. I want to build the Earthship.
Speaker 1: Some of them, like Bob said, I'm going to keep going.
Speaker 1: But the initial lack of choice, it's now something we
Speaker 1: we think it's okay, you know, the way that out
Speaker 1: their care in this country at the moment, or it's
Speaker 1: been like that for a long time, and the feeling
Speaker 1: of uh, if you don't contribute to the capitalist economy,
Speaker 1: then you're disposable. That's a shame for any society because
Speaker 1: elders have so much wisdom to leave behind. And we
Speaker 1: learned so much. I personally learned so much being around
Speaker 1: people of firm evolved in the maze generation to learn
Speaker 1: about life, to learn about grief and loss and death
Speaker 1: and perseverance and all these things. But we don't think
Speaker 1: about the outer that way. So that's something that we
Speaker 1: want to make it very clear. All of us feel
Speaker 1: like hopefully that message come across and then each individual UM,
Speaker 1: after we've been put so many different identity on us,
Speaker 1: a mother, a coworker's part of a community, a daughter,
Speaker 1: and all that. If all that goes away one day,
Speaker 1: who am I? And many of them were put in
Speaker 1: that situation after without and eight and I think, I
Speaker 1: think whether it's a sunset or like the way Firm said,
Speaker 1: I don't need any of these things. At the end
Speaker 1: when she was at the storage place, they felt weighted
Speaker 1: down by working so hard, giving up their entire lives
Speaker 1: for things that doesn't really matter to them compared to
Speaker 1: a soundset. You know, UM and then wanted to be
Speaker 1: closer to nature because when you get into a certain age,
Speaker 1: I remember friends said this to me. I moved to
Speaker 1: a small town next to the ocean because I want
Speaker 1: to feel close to the third that I'm going about
Speaker 1: to go into and this feeding of contemplating of mortality,
Speaker 1: and I want to be close to nature. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons why each of them choose to
Speaker 1: keep going. For Bob, there's also a bigger reason. You know,
Speaker 1: he wants to help other people. He wants to be
Speaker 1: part of a something, of a movement, But that's very
Speaker 1: individual for each person why they end up choosing to
Speaker 1: not go back to a house when they can. Finally,
Speaker 1: if if you all had to describe what No mad
Speaker 1: Land is really about at its at its essence, what
Speaker 1: would you say? And I'll just go around the horn
Speaker 1: and start with Dan, What would you say, No mad
Speaker 1: Land is about Dan? I think I think that what
Speaker 1: we're going was talking about. One thing that was on
Speaker 1: my mind is about why the movie may resonate with
Speaker 1: so many people who aren't in the same set of
Speaker 1: circumstances as the characters of Nomad Lands, and a lot
Speaker 1: of privileged people see the film, and we come from
Speaker 1: privileged backgrounds as filmmakers as well, that the Fern's journey
Speaker 1: is an extreme journey, physical journey that I think is
Speaker 1: a spiritual one that all people go on, where we
Speaker 1: ask ourselves, what does it mean to have a home?
Speaker 1: Who is that home with? Where do we find happiness?
Speaker 1: Where do we find survival? So I think that, especially
Speaker 1: in the context of the pandemic, Fern is going through
Speaker 1: a physical journey that is a spiritual journey that a
Speaker 1: lot of us are going on, regardless of where we
Speaker 1: are in life or what age we're on. There the
Speaker 1: movie ask you to lean into some big cosmic questions
Speaker 1: about being alive in America right now. So I think
Speaker 1: I think Burn's Journey allows us to go on our
Speaker 1: own spiritual journeys. And I think all great movies give
Speaker 1: you the ability to go to worlds that you don't know,
Speaker 1: to then look within your own soul and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: well who am I? What does it mean for me
Speaker 1: to be alive? I don't know if that makes any sense. Now,
Speaker 1: it totally makes sense. I think. I think it was
Speaker 1: beautiful actually, and and and Chloe's assessment I think of
Speaker 1: the characters was as well. Um, but I think you're right.
Speaker 1: It brings up a lot of cosmic issues through these
Speaker 1: through this storytelling just of a few characters, and and
Speaker 1: a lot of questions about society, about capitalism, about income inequality,
Speaker 1: about disposal, the you know, people as as disposable, about workers,
Speaker 1: the workforce, Amazon. I mean, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: it's a lot of stuff, you know in one and
Speaker 1: one small film. Really and and Molly, for you, as Chloes,
Speaker 1: it struck me, Chloe said, everybody kind of takes something
Speaker 1: different away from it. I also I thought a lot
Speaker 1: about isolation and loneliness because I can't really I'm not
Speaker 1: good at being alone. I can't really stand the my
Speaker 1: own company, and uh and and and I would be
Speaker 1: really I would go crazy if I lit lead the
Speaker 1: kind of isolated life that Fern was living, you know,
Speaker 1: without companionship on these long drives, I mean, and and
Speaker 1: so me. For me, it was a lot about living
Speaker 1: with loneliness or live you know, tolerating, acceptance, accepting loneliness
Speaker 1: and um solitary you know, I just love that. I
Speaker 1: love that. I really hope someone take away that. Thank you,
Speaker 1: um and and Molly. So when you think about it,
Speaker 1: what do you think the film is about? And I
Speaker 1: think I know Chloe, I'm gonna have you and in
Speaker 1: this conversation because I know you've talked about the American Dream.
Speaker 1: But first, Molly you yeah, I mean, actually I was
Speaker 1: going to bring up the American Dream because I think
Speaker 1: when I first just first reading the book, I really
Speaker 1: you know, the people in this film, in the book
Speaker 1: are are my parents age and I remember after the
Speaker 1: financial crisis, they had this whole plan of what their
Speaker 1: retirement was going to be and that all fell apart
Speaker 1: and um, and so I was really interested in exploring
Speaker 1: this um, this whole idea of like when you have
Speaker 1: this idea of what your life is going to be,
Speaker 1: this American dream, and it doesn't work out, and then
Speaker 1: finding your own way to, you know, sort of rebuild
Speaker 1: an American dream for your for yourself and how much
Speaker 1: we really need and how much we really don't need, right,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of it is about sort of
Speaker 1: crass consumerism too. But anyway, Peter, what about you. I
Speaker 1: think I'm really strong, and I've seen it several times
Speaker 1: now and I come away from different things, but I
Speaker 1: think I'm really of late. I felt very moved by
Speaker 1: the concept of these people in our lives who are
Speaker 1: the rememberers, those people, the people who are sort of
Speaker 1: traveling with the memory of someone gone, of something gone,
Speaker 1: of a lost community of lost lover of lost friendships,
Speaker 1: of of lost meaning and and and and certainly in
Speaker 1: the in the movie, you know the line what remember what,
Speaker 1: what's remembered lives and and and it just the idea
Speaker 1: of of grief and how we process that, and and
Speaker 1: that you know, the death doesn't necessarily into relationship, and
Speaker 1: that it struggles still in the minds of you know,
Speaker 1: of of whomever for some kind of resolution that it
Speaker 1: may or may not find feels you know, uh, feels
Speaker 1: very much of of import right now in the time
Speaker 1: we're living in. I also think, and you know, who
Speaker 1: cares what I think? But I was just gonna say, Chloe,
Speaker 1: that while it was about loneliness and isolation, it was
Speaker 1: also very much about community and the fact that humans,
Speaker 1: human to human contact can really happen anywhere if you
Speaker 1: have like an open heart and you're willing to share.
Speaker 1: And especially I think it was especially poignant poignant for
Speaker 1: me watching the scene around the fire where people were
Speaker 1: throwing things in the fire and saying a few words,
Speaker 1: and that kind of communal ritual, ritualistic exercise and and
Speaker 1: how community can be anywhere. Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And look the loneliness aspect for me, these stars there,
Speaker 1: you know it stars there. Because I think wanting to
Speaker 1: tell stories is in a way of saying, is there
Speaker 1: anybody out there? You know? I just you want to
Speaker 1: reach out because there's a deep loneliness I think we
Speaker 1: all have and you's got to resolve in different is
Speaker 1: for me is to connect with other people through storytelling
Speaker 1: and UM. In order to tell stories, I have to believe,
Speaker 1: I have to have their faith that we're inherently good
Speaker 1: as human beings, that we inherently have compassion for one
Speaker 1: another even though we disagree on everything. So when I
Speaker 1: go out there in the middle of nowhere of a
Speaker 1: community is not my own, I search for that compassion.
Speaker 1: I always find it, and I think Nomal and UM
Speaker 1: document that experience for me. Of these people around the
Speaker 1: fire have nothing in common, come from all walk of life.
Speaker 1: I kind of listen to each other and try to
Speaker 1: see the world from the other person's perspective and have
Speaker 1: compassion for each other and as a result, have compassion
Speaker 1: for themselves. A big thank you to all My Guests
Speaker 1: Today director Chloe's Out, Producers Peter Spears, Molly Asher, and
Speaker 1: Dan Champige. You can watch The Incredible Nomad Land on Hulu.
Speaker 1: Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Media and Katie Curic Media. The executive producers Army,
Speaker 1: Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen.
Speaker 1: Associate producers Derek Clements, Adrianna Fasio, and Emily Pinto. The
Speaker 1: show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more
Speaker 1: information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
Speaker 1: morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie currect dot com.
Speaker 1: You can also find me at Katie Curic on Instagram
Speaker 1: and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,