WEBVTT -  Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?

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<v Speaker 1>As Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Behind the Bastard's We're.

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<v Speaker 3>On page eighteen fifty two.

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<v Speaker 2>I know a podcast where Robert Evans accidentally wrote twenty

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<v Speaker 2>almost twenty four thousand words about Oprah for this these episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>The normal length of a book is fifty thousand words,

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<v Speaker 2>so half of a book about fucking Oprah, And like

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<v Speaker 2>I was having panic attacks at the end of this

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<v Speaker 2>of like, oh my god, I'm leaving so much out.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm leaving so much from like this, this this really good

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<v Speaker 2>book age of Oprah out because like I just don't

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<v Speaker 2>even know how to like fit everything in. But I

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<v Speaker 2>have to start this episode with our wonderful guests, the

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<v Speaker 2>inimitable bridget Todd and the glorious Sainted. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew t I'm trying to think of new new adjectives to.

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<v Speaker 4>Continua becomes what did you do to become a saint?

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<v Speaker 2>What's a saying I actually have to die? No you don't, No,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't. I think you don't have to die. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>probably okay.

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<v Speaker 4>Just let me know I'm down.

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<v Speaker 2>Bridgie, you could also be a saint, but I'm not.

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't get major Catholic vibes from you.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I actually did go to Catholic school.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh you did, well, Okay, I'm gonna I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>redirect the habit that I've got headed for Andrew, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to go to you, Andrew. Sorry, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>saying anything.

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<v Speaker 5>You have to uh, you know, live virtuously.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to die for the faith, so like you have.

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<v Speaker 5>To martyr h perform miracles.

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<v Speaker 2>He's performed a miracle.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know if all of these are required at once.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think there's every everyone who's made it on

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<v Speaker 2>time for Behind the Bastards recording, since that sat through

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<v Speaker 2>a whole episode as a guest has performed a miracle.

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<v Speaker 3>I said, it has been a martyr.

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<v Speaker 6>But yeah, my most miraculous thing is since we're doing

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<v Speaker 6>video is I'm holding up my favorite coffee cup.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, I love that.

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<v Speaker 3>By chance to buy that in Maryland? Did you? That's

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<v Speaker 3>giving me big Maryland vibes?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sure from Maryland? Maine.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, they have they do crabs out there too?

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<v Speaker 1>No?

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<v Speaker 4>Not good?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>Could they?

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<v Speaker 7>I can't imagine mastations. It's so hardcore lobster territory. I

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<v Speaker 7>don't know if lobsters and crabs fight. Sorry for we're

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<v Speaker 7>already over.

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<v Speaker 6>We're The whole discussion has been how long this is

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<v Speaker 6>going to be? And I've just trying to figure out

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<v Speaker 6>if there's crabs in Maine.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's there's. There's for sure crabs in Maine. They've

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<v Speaker 2>got lobster at McDonald's.

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<v Speaker 4>In part part But that's my whole point.

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<v Speaker 3>Part three seems normal.

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<v Speaker 2>Part four is I there's there's there's no logic to

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<v Speaker 2>the number of parts. This might may wind up more

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<v Speaker 2>episodes than we thought. I have to start with something,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a mea culpa. I made some mistakes in

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<v Speaker 2>the last episodes. Guys, tell us I'm so sorry. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>so so sorry. So here's the thing. When you're doing

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<v Speaker 2>a podcast like this, like it's a mix of you

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<v Speaker 2>do a bunch of research and you write a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of things to get a bunch of facts out that

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<v Speaker 2>you are as accurate as you can, but you're also

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<v Speaker 2>having a conversation, so you do stuff like, oh, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>bringing up the biblical story of Ruth. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>much about Ruth. I only included it in the episode

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<v Speaker 2>to make a bad joke about Star Wars. The Phantom Menace,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I made a comment about it. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think she's got something to do with Moses. She

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<v Speaker 2>does not, And all of the Bible people got onto

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<v Speaker 2>me for that one, and I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 7>How big a part of your audience is the Bible people.

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<v Speaker 2>A shockingly large number of Well, I think it's because

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<v Speaker 2>we have a lot of like ex vangelicals in the audience,

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<v Speaker 2>like a lot of people who were raised evangelical and

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<v Speaker 2>then got better.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm just gonna throw this out there. That wasn't an error.

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<v Speaker 6>That was a fucking dork trap, and they all fell

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<v Speaker 6>into it.

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<v Speaker 2>They felt the same cannot be said for my heinous

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<v Speaker 2>and unforgivable comments about the March of Dimes because I

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<v Speaker 2>made a comment that like, I don't know, I guess

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<v Speaker 2>it's probably a cancer charity, and then a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>people popped in and be like, no, it's for this,

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<v Speaker 2>and then other people were like, actually, when Oprah was

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<v Speaker 2>a kid, it didn't do that. It was for a

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<v Speaker 2>completely different thing. So we're all wrong, although again it

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<v Speaker 2>had nothing to do with cancer. So I was wrongest,

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<v Speaker 2>but like you guys were wrong too. Most of you

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<v Speaker 2>who criticized me because it wasn't about that then, so

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<v Speaker 2>fuck you. I love you. I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 3>What is it for?

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's right now. I think it's for like 's's

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<v Speaker 2>let's look up the march at times, let's let's get

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<v Speaker 2>it right. Babies, Yeah, immature babies. But it was like

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<v Speaker 2>about polio before that and.

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<v Speaker 5>Trying to correct Robert.

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<v Speaker 3>That is my mother.

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<v Speaker 2>Improved the health of mothers and babies, right, Robert.

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<v Speaker 3>Robert is never wrong, He's perfect.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I never like say stuff during Like one of

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<v Speaker 2>the things you learn about yourself during doing this is

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<v Speaker 2>like how often in daily conversation and we all do this,

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<v Speaker 2>you just like say things that are a part of

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<v Speaker 2>your understanding of the world that are not right, because

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<v Speaker 2>that's like life. We all pick up a bunch of bullshit,

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<v Speaker 2>like the number of time.

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<v Speaker 3>I just don't think you should have to apologize.

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<v Speaker 5>Right now, I take that burden from you.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry saying Robert, but he's innocent.

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<v Speaker 2>All I'm saying is record everything you've ever you ever

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<v Speaker 2>say in a single day of conversations with people, and

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<v Speaker 2>then run them by a fact checker, and you will

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<v Speaker 2>be amazed at how much of like the load bearing

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<v Speaker 2>fat pillars of your reality are things you absolutely believe

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<v Speaker 2>without thinking that are not true. It's amazing.

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<v Speaker 8>It's the worst part of being a podcaster is like

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<v Speaker 8>having a public record of stupid shit that you thought,

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<v Speaker 8>or if you're me, shit that you thought was pronounced

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<v Speaker 8>one way and it's put another way.

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<v Speaker 2>The pronunciation like, So for this episode, I spent almost

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<v Speaker 2>three hours looking at Oprah's uh one of her charity's

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<v Speaker 2>tax returns. None of that made it end of the

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<v Speaker 2>episode turned out not to be interesting. But you know

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<v Speaker 2>what I didn't remember to do was look up whether

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<v Speaker 2>or not Ruth had anything to fucking do with Moses, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't.

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<v Speaker 5>I think you just you're you're doing great, Pal.

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<v Speaker 4>I've fail to see how this is a problem.

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<v Speaker 3>I think.

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<v Speaker 6>Also, I just wanted to jump in March of Dimes

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<v Speaker 6>previous Polio charity.

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<v Speaker 4>The way things are going, they might need to go back.

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<v Speaker 4>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's again. I love Polio. And I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>because we got a lot of my favorite writers, Robert,

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<v Speaker 2>I think.

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<v Speaker 5>We're fifty two pages.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well let's get into this. So when we last

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<v Speaker 2>left off, Oprah had gotten her first radio gig with

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<v Speaker 2>a radio DJ who was surprisingly not problematic John Heidelberg.

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<v Speaker 2>People online have been pointing out other stuff about him apparently, fine,

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<v Speaker 2>So congratulations John Heidelberg. When we're talking about DJs being problematic,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about old timey radio DJs, because if you

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<v Speaker 2>look into the history of like very famous old timey

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<v Speaker 2>radio DJs, not a lot of them were great people.

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<v Speaker 2>But apparently John was so good for you, John Heidelberg,

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<v Speaker 2>you went our behind the Bastard's Award for being a

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<v Speaker 2>sex best as a DJ in the nineteen seventies. You're

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<v Speaker 2>the only person who's won that award, by the way.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's got to be a club of one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is a club of You are the loneliest

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<v Speaker 2>man in history. So the next several years of Oprah's

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<v Speaker 2>life involved a pretty boring time in college. We're not

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<v Speaker 2>going to get into it, but she starts doing beauty contests,

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<v Speaker 2>and she's very good at beauty contests. One of the

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<v Speaker 2>biggest moments in her early life is she wins the

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<v Speaker 2>miss Fire Prevention contest. Now, I know what you're all saying,

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<v Speaker 2>what the fuck is miss fire prevention? And to understand this,

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<v Speaker 2>you have to know that back in the nineteen seventies,

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<v Speaker 2>everything was flammable. People only wore petroleum products, Every couch

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<v Speaker 2>was made out of petroleum products, and everyone fell asleep

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<v Speaker 2>with a lit cigarette in their mouth, so everything and

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<v Speaker 2>everyone was constantly on fire. Yeah, so this was a

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<v Speaker 2>real problem. Also, everyone was on binzos, so you would

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<v Speaker 2>it was like every week in your neighborhood either a

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<v Speaker 2>drunk day labor like either either the husband would come

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<v Speaker 2>home from like his work in a fucking law factory

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<v Speaker 2>and pass out drunk with a cigarette in his mouth

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<v Speaker 2>and wipe out the entire family, or the housewife would

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<v Speaker 2>take too many benzos and pass out with a lit

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<v Speaker 2>cigarette in her mouth and wipe out the whole family.

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<v Speaker 2>But either whatever was happening, fire was killing absolutely everyone,

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<v Speaker 2>and so we were like, we have to find the

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<v Speaker 2>hottest person in order to represent not burning your family

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<v Speaker 2>to death because you fell asleep with a lit cigarette

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<v Speaker 2>in your mouth, and Oprah was that person. Isn't that nice.

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<v Speaker 3>Fun fact about that.

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<v Speaker 8>That's why we have like flame retardant couches now, because

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<v Speaker 8>the cigarette industry was like, we can't keep getting popped for.

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<v Speaker 3>That were possibility.

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<v Speaker 2>We're fine with killing people so many other ways, but

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<v Speaker 2>all these house fires are really cutting into our business.

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<v Speaker 6>Please tell me the first fire retarded couches were just

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<v Speaker 6>made of asbestos.

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<v Speaker 2>It probably will. God, I'll have to go for a

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<v Speaker 2>nice asbestus couch to know that I'm both like sitting

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<v Speaker 2>down on the couch to watch horrible news happen and

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<v Speaker 2>also shortening my time on this earth. Beautiful. Oprah was

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<v Speaker 2>the first black woman to win the Miss Fire Prevention contest,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's great. During questioning by a panel of judges,

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<v Speaker 2>she said that she wanted to be a journalist like

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara Walters. She was asked what she would do if

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<v Speaker 2>she was given a million dollars, and everyone else in

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<v Speaker 2>the contest expressed kind of like, I'll help the poor,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll help my family, whereas Oprah just admitted I would spend, spend, spend,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd just be a spending fool.

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<v Speaker 3>Awesome, Actually love that.

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<v Speaker 2>You better respect that. Look, I grew up poor as shit.

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<v Speaker 2>I would spend it.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>This was definitely a legitimate win Miss Fire Prevention. However,

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<v Speaker 2>her next big contest win, the Miss Black Nashville contest,

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<v Speaker 2>was a little bit shadier. Everyone involved about it seems

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<v Speaker 2>to agree that another girl, Maud had been a better contestant,

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<v Speaker 2>but Oprah shocked everyone by winning, and the motor of

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<v Speaker 2>the event would later claim that several people complained to him,

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<v Speaker 2>and so he did a recount of the votes and

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<v Speaker 2>found out that Maud had in fact been the rightful winner,

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<v Speaker 2>but her name had gotten switched with Oprah's by somebody

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<v Speaker 2>for unknown reasons. Now we don't know what happened. Some

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<v Speaker 2>people have theorized Oprah set the whole thing up somehow.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's at least an equally good probability based

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<v Speaker 2>on just like the vibes. I get that the promoter

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<v Speaker 2>of the event kind of had a weird thing for Oprah.

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<v Speaker 2>His name was Gordon El Greco Brown, and I don't

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<v Speaker 2>trust that name. I just don't trust that name like

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<v Speaker 2>that that is the name of like a used car

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<v Speaker 2>dealer from fucking Encina who also happens to be a

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<v Speaker 2>neo Nazi. I'm not saying that's Gordon Ell Greco Brown.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying that's the name Gordon O. That's what

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<v Speaker 2>that conjures, Gordon El like the Greco Brown Elco.

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<v Speaker 4>So he's Gordon Gecko L Brown.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, that that man has so many different opinions

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<v Speaker 2>on the various coke dealers in his area that he

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<v Speaker 2>has to keep track of them in a notebook. Anyway,

0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.560
<v Speaker 2>when Oprah was notified, I'm not saying that about the literal.

0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.839
<v Speaker 2>I'm not slandering the actual man. I'm just saying that's

0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.440
<v Speaker 2>how his name sounds. Anyway. Oprah gets notified of this

0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.400
<v Speaker 2>error that Maud really won, and she says like, well,

0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.120
<v Speaker 2>fuck it, you guys gave me the award. I'm not

0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:24.240
<v Speaker 2>giving it back. In Kitty Kelly's kind of mean biography,

0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot is made about the fact that Oprah like

0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't give this up and I don't know, I don't

0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.800
<v Speaker 2>really care, like you handed her the award, so she's

0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.959
<v Speaker 2>not wrong to be like, fuck you, guys. Oprah goes

0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:40.040
<v Speaker 2>to Tennessee State University, or TSU, which is a black college,

0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.319
<v Speaker 2>but she doesn't go to the more prestigious in nearby

0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Fisk University, known locally as the Black Harvard. I think

0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.840
<v Speaker 2>this is just a matter of expense. Oprah seems to

0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.800
<v Speaker 2>be insecure about this. Later, she spends her social time

0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.480
<v Speaker 2>hanging out at FISK. Her dad is like, look, you

0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.600
<v Speaker 2>know I could afford to send her to TSU. And

0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.920
<v Speaker 2>so I did. I will say, because Kitty Kelly makes

0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot about like, yeah, Oprah couldn't get into the

0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:08.720
<v Speaker 2>good school, she couldn't hack it. I've read like from

0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:13.040
<v Speaker 2>the anecdotes we get about TSU, it doesn't sound great.

0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.199
<v Speaker 2>There's a good one from one of her professors, doctor W. D. Cox,

0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.640
<v Speaker 2>that and this, this is what this guy, doctor Cox,

0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:27.240
<v Speaker 2>this actual professor says later about teaching Oprah. And I

0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.360
<v Speaker 2>think he thinks this makes him sound funny. During our

0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.800
<v Speaker 2>stay in the city, a girl was reported raped on

0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.679
<v Speaker 2>the second floor. I told a lie on Oprah. If

0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Oprah had known about the rape, she'd have shouted you

0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.280
<v Speaker 2>who I'm up here. Oprah didn't take too kindly to

0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 2>that joke. She was quite provoked. Do you guys catch that?

0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 2>He says a girl got raped? And I said, hey, Oprah,

0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.880
<v Speaker 2>you would like that. That's the talking about this decades later,

0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:57.360
<v Speaker 2>being like, can you believe she didn't find it funny?

0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.240
<v Speaker 2>That's nuts, that's insane.

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.080
<v Speaker 5>Somebody laughed at him though, and he that like charged

0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:05.800
<v Speaker 5>that shit.

0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.559
<v Speaker 2>Maybe or the whole like, I don't know what things

0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.520
<v Speaker 2>you're like in the seventies.

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:11.760
<v Speaker 5>Laugh at men's jokes that aren't funny.

0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.720
<v Speaker 2>Just you should get fired, period.

0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.640
<v Speaker 2>The whole joke is I bet you'd like get it

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.640
<v Speaker 2>like that's yeah, wild stuff.

0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.199
<v Speaker 8>You want to me that he like even in retelling

0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.400
<v Speaker 8>that he's like and she didn't even find it funny.

0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 3>She wasn't. Can you believe it?

0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.440
<v Speaker 2>He describes it as enjoying a little foolishness at Oprah's expense.

0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.280
<v Speaker 2>He's still going, that's not what that is, a little

0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.800
<v Speaker 2>foolish should be like, you know, talking about I don't

0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 2>know the fact that she's obviously wants to be a star,

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.000
<v Speaker 2>making a little bit of joke about how she likes attention,

0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:45.120
<v Speaker 2>not like that.

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.880
<v Speaker 6>This is not yeah, like and this this dude has

0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 6>been holding onto that joke.

0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 2>For Kitty Kelly in twenty ten ten Jesus Christ, Oh

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.080
<v Speaker 2>you just know, like just I'm guessing based on his

0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 2>age that like she goes to see him in an

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.600
<v Speaker 2>old folks home and like his fucking kids come in,

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.200
<v Speaker 2>They're like, oh no, get her out of here. We

0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.840
<v Speaker 2>can't let dad be talking to a journalist like, oh

0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.720
<v Speaker 2>my god, so Oprah. The big standout detail from her

0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.120
<v Speaker 2>college years is she plays Coretta Scott King in a

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.920
<v Speaker 2>local production of the Tragedy of Martin Luther King Junior.

0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>And the main reason this is relevant is that a

0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.000
<v Speaker 2>reviewer for the school paper reviews this play by saying,

0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Martin Luther King murdered twice? I do love how bit

0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:35.120
<v Speaker 2>you that is?

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 9>That's good?

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Like shit? Imagine because he had to have sat with

0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 2>that review title just being like, I can't say this,

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.360
<v Speaker 2>can I?

0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm so glad for.

0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:54.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing it. Near the end of nineteen seventy two,

0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 2>oh forgets her first TV gig when her boss at

0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 2>WVOL called a local TV station WTVFTV and told them

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.280
<v Speaker 2>that he had a girl who was interested in broadcasting.

0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.040
<v Speaker 2>This was during a period where the FCC had just

0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.120
<v Speaker 2>introduced diversity requirements for on air talent, and Oprah was

0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.720
<v Speaker 2>hired quickly. She generally describes this as an affirmative action.

0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Hire Again, the guy you hires her is like, no,

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 2>she was the best qualified candidate, you know, I don't

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 2>know either way. It doesn't really matter because this proves

0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.760
<v Speaker 2>to be a very good hiring decision. The truth Oprah

0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.120
<v Speaker 2>was a skilled performer and had experienced both on the

0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.840
<v Speaker 2>radio and as a pageant winner. That said, she was

0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.280
<v Speaker 2>hired to be a journalist, which she had no experience doing,

0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 2>and she winds up reporting on city Hall, she cheerfully admitted.

0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.680
<v Speaker 2>As soon as she starts the job, she tells all

0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 2>her coworkers, I lied during my interview. I don't know

0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 2>how to do this job. Like her first day, she

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 2>tells the crew, I don't know what I'm doing. Please

0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.840
<v Speaker 2>help me because, like I told the director, I understood

0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.040
<v Speaker 2>how to do this job. And it's a remark. It's

0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 2>a mark of her charisma that everyone on the crew's like, well, okay,

0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.200
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of nice.

0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 6>Damn yeah, Like what a it's not even a hail Mary,

0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:15.600
<v Speaker 6>But what do you like? Like high variants, play the Hey,

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:16.920
<v Speaker 6>by the way, what's up?

0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.120
<v Speaker 4>How do you do this job?

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean that is how like entertainment works, right, Like

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 2>everyone I know in this industry has a story of like, yeah,

0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.800
<v Speaker 2>I talked myself into a room that I probably didn't

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 2>have the right to be in and then it worked hard.

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 4>Yes, the b side of admitting yeah, I would say

0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:36.000
<v Speaker 4>a lot.

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Less yeah, I one of the Again, we're about to

0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 2>get into all of the horrible things Oprah has been

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.400
<v Speaker 2>involved in. But one thing that I do consistently admire

0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 2>about her is that she doesn't dress up this aspect

0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.360
<v Speaker 2>of her life. She's like, yeah, man, I lied, sheeated

0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 2>and stolen until I could be on TV. You know,

0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 2>is everyone who gets famous on DV right, Like, yeah, I.

0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 8>Got my first podcast job lying about knowing final cut

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 8>pro and then I had to like go on learn

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:04.600
<v Speaker 8>how to use pro.

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's how. Look, kids, if you're looking at getting

0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.280
<v Speaker 2>entertained into entertainment, get good at lying, because that's the

0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 2>job Oprah experienced. A This is an uncomfortable transition, but

0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.240
<v Speaker 2>there are a lot of racism on the job. A

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.639
<v Speaker 2>large part of it was like she's the first black

0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 2>on air talent that they have.

0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:24.919
<v Speaker 10>Uh.

0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.480
<v Speaker 2>She winds up interviewing a lot of people who like

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 2>they see a black journalist and just start calling her

0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.760
<v Speaker 2>slurs to her face. She won awards though she's very ambitious.

0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Her colleagues. That's the primary thing her colleagues from this

0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.200
<v Speaker 2>period remember about her is that Oprah is a climber.

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.760
<v Speaker 2>She is somebody who is like crawling up to the top.

0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 9>Right.

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.960
<v Speaker 2>At one point, she takes over for a producer who,

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.720
<v Speaker 2>like she gets on set, he clearly doesn't know what

0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.679
<v Speaker 2>he's doing for this Black History Week presentation, and she

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:59.920
<v Speaker 2>directs the entire segment herself. She is also, by everyone's admission,

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 2>doing Hella drugs during this period, although everyone at the

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 2>TV station is doing Hella drugs, this is a local

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 2>TV station in the seventies. I want to read a

0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 2>paragraph from the book Oprah, a biography based on a

0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.720
<v Speaker 2>conversation with her former colleague Patty Outlaw. It was just

0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 2>nuts working at that station. Drugs, drugs, drugs all the time,

0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 2>drugs all over the place. They were even selling window

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.680
<v Speaker 2>panes of LSD in the hall. Drugs were so prevalent

0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.240
<v Speaker 2>that the new staff gave Vic Mason, Oprah's co anchor,

0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.679
<v Speaker 2>a coke spoon as a gift. Chris and I look

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.080
<v Speaker 2>the other way, said Jimmy Norton, who confirmed that station

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.959
<v Speaker 2>management removed a vending machine once they discovered it had

0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:41.080
<v Speaker 2>been rigged to dispense marijuana. That sounds pretty cool.

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:46.680
<v Speaker 4>Oh my god, in Chicago, where was this?

0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:48.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? No, no, No, they're not even in I think

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.879
<v Speaker 2>they're Yeah, they're in Nashville, Stone, Nashville. Yeah, they're in Nashville. Still,

0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 2>she does move up to the big leagues pretty quickly,

0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:57.600
<v Speaker 2>but she doesn't go straight to Chicago. After a few

0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.960
<v Speaker 2>years in Nashville, she gets a job in Baltimore. She's

0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.040
<v Speaker 2>not really happy there, even though this is a big

0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.399
<v Speaker 2>step up Baltimore obviously being a bigger city, because she

0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.520
<v Speaker 2>feels like she's on a ticking timer right but like

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:11.360
<v Speaker 2>by the time, her attitude is like, by the time

0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm twenty four, I have to be where I want

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.240
<v Speaker 2>to be because then I'm like too old and washed up,

0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:20.399
<v Speaker 2>which you know, that's the way a lot of people,

0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.040
<v Speaker 2>that's the way TV is for a lot of women aligently,

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:24.840
<v Speaker 2>but like it's certainly not going to be that way

0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.760
<v Speaker 2>for Oprah. Baltimore turns out to be a disaster though.

0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 2>The longtime anchorman for the station, who she has made

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.359
<v Speaker 2>to be like the co anchor, hates her and she's

0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.680
<v Speaker 2>not really experienced enough, like he's been doing it for decades.

0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't really know what she's doing yet, so she

0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.600
<v Speaker 2>very quickly gets demoted, but she's still on contract. So

0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.360
<v Speaker 2>it's one of those things where she's getting a lot

0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.040
<v Speaker 2>of money, but she's basically not doing the job that

0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.280
<v Speaker 2>she got hired to do. She's instead getting all these

0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.640
<v Speaker 2>terrible little human interest stories that she considers beneath her.

0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.480
<v Speaker 2>So this is a frustrating period, but her saving grace

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.080
<v Speaker 2>is always her ambition. Denied itansmen at the station, she

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.680
<v Speaker 2>starts performing at churches, schools in different black community spaces,

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.560
<v Speaker 2>building a fan base locally the hard way. She also

0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.200
<v Speaker 2>has a series of interracial relationships while she is working

0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.639
<v Speaker 2>at the station, which is noteworthy because that is not

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 2>a common thing at the time, and the fact that

0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.439
<v Speaker 2>she is dating white guys in her personal life becomes

0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.840
<v Speaker 2>public news. A bunch of local white radio DJs make

0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.520
<v Speaker 2>it like a reoccurring thing that they talk about on

0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.760
<v Speaker 2>the air, like Oprah is dating. I don't just bring

0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.879
<v Speaker 2>that up to be like wow, and like it's like no, no, no,

0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:36.720
<v Speaker 2>this is like she has to deal with this being

0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:38.680
<v Speaker 2>part of like local news.

0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.320
<v Speaker 8>Can I say something because I do think it highlights

0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.680
<v Speaker 8>how unequal the playing fields are for black women in media.

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.120
<v Speaker 8>I mean black women across the spectrum of any profession,

0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 8>but like like local radio DJs, so people who ostensibly

0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.439
<v Speaker 8>are also colleagues are also in media, making it a

0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.719
<v Speaker 8>joke segment about who she is dating romantically privately like

0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.160
<v Speaker 8>that having to contend with that on top of having

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.199
<v Speaker 8>to do your job with all these eyes on you.

0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.040
<v Speaker 8>I mean like it's completely ridiculous.

0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, like it's nuts and like, for an example

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.000
<v Speaker 2>of how fucking insane it is, one of these local

0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:18.000
<v Speaker 2>radio DJs described she's dating like a Jewish reporter right

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.760
<v Speaker 2>who works at a competing station. One of these guys

0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 2>on the radio describes their relationship as Omar Sharif is

0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:31.960
<v Speaker 2>dating aunt Jemima Jesus Jesus Christ. Oh boy, you should

0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.160
<v Speaker 2>just explode when you say something like that.

0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 4>God.

0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.040
<v Speaker 2>So, she had always been something of a binge eater,

0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 2>largely as a response to stress, and as is probably

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.359
<v Speaker 2>not surprising, the stress of like being in the public

0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.200
<v Speaker 2>eye and having all of this shit about you be

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.520
<v Speaker 2>public discussion causes that to be even more of a problem.

0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:54.639
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen seventy seven, she starts paying a diet doctor

0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 2>to help her drop weight for the first time, and

0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:01.000
<v Speaker 2>she starts attending overreaders anonymous courses. Sure of stress and

0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:03.720
<v Speaker 2>starving herself causes her hair to fall out, or at

0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.840
<v Speaker 2>least that's one story. Oprah later is going to insist

0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.160
<v Speaker 2>that she lost her hair because executives at the station

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:11.439
<v Speaker 2>demanded that she go to New York for a French

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.840
<v Speaker 2>hairdresser to quote make me a Puerto Rican by bleaching

0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.960
<v Speaker 2>her skin and changing her hair. I don't know. Yeah, Like,

0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:22.560
<v Speaker 2>because you get these two different versions of how she

0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:24.600
<v Speaker 2>loses her hair, it's very hard to say what the

0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.399
<v Speaker 2>truth is. The news producer is like the company didn't

0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:30.959
<v Speaker 2>have the budget to send her to New York. She

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.520
<v Speaker 2>also claims that the former news director tries to get

0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 2>her to change her name to Susie. He denies this.

0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's all a little muddled. It doesn't

0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:43.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how much like where the truth lies

0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:47.600
<v Speaker 2>here super matters, Right, There's definitely some stuff that she's

0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:50.360
<v Speaker 2>like exaggerating, but she's also literally people are talking about

0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:53.720
<v Speaker 2>her relationships on the air in a very racist way.

0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:56.880
<v Speaker 2>So like, I don't know, I feel like you get

0:22:56.880 --> 0:22:58.719
<v Speaker 2>the general gist, which is that she is in an

0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.920
<v Speaker 2>incredibly stressful and unfair situation here at work.

0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:05.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah yeah, Like the public record is like even if

0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 6>she's straight up lying about literally is yeah like here

0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:11.760
<v Speaker 6>say like who cares?

0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, right right, Like that's kind of where I

0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.520
<v Speaker 2>land on this. That said, I will say this station

0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 2>allows her to work her way like that she is

0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.840
<v Speaker 2>not like locked out of moving back up, and she

0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:25.680
<v Speaker 2>works her way back up to reporting the news over

0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:28.600
<v Speaker 2>the next couple of years in Baltimore, and in fact,

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.920
<v Speaker 2>she rebuilds her reputation with her bosses well enough that

0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:36.040
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy seven, the new station manager, William Baker, gives

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.680
<v Speaker 2>her the big break that is going to lead her

0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:41.600
<v Speaker 2>to the position of kind of impossible wealth and cultural

0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.719
<v Speaker 2>power that she's going to attain. He had been brought

0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.679
<v Speaker 2>on to the station after creating in another station a

0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:51.639
<v Speaker 2>morning talk show called Morning Exchange, and his job was

0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:54.119
<v Speaker 2>to do the same thing for Baltimore. Right, morning shows

0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:57.280
<v Speaker 2>are a new concept, like this is this is the

0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:00.760
<v Speaker 2>guy playing a video game while ranting about politics on

0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 2>a stream of nineteen seventy seven is like people waking

0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:07.040
<v Speaker 2>up in the morning to see one to two charming,

0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:09.960
<v Speaker 2>handsome people talk about bullshit while you like, get the

0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:11.080
<v Speaker 2>kid's breakfasts ready.

0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:15.680
<v Speaker 2>The hottest new thing in entertainment. Phil Donahue had kind

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:17.520
<v Speaker 2>of helped to kick off the trend of like talk

0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:20.480
<v Speaker 2>shows in nineteen sixty eight, and his show, which was

0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:23.680
<v Speaker 2>just named Donahue, had become like the most popular thing

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:28.640
<v Speaker 2>on television. Morning shows were a refinement of this idea. Right,

0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.280
<v Speaker 2>you generally have a male host and a female co host,

0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:34.040
<v Speaker 2>and this is how you lock in viewers who are

0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:35.960
<v Speaker 2>either getting ready for work or like stay at home

0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 2>moms starting their day. Baker's wife, Jean Marie, was the

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.119
<v Speaker 2>one who recommended Oprah to be the female co host

0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:45.560
<v Speaker 2>of this new morning show. Apparently at some sort of

0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:48.360
<v Speaker 2>like work event, she sees Winfrey and she like says

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 2>to her husband, that's your host. And Baker listens to

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:54.359
<v Speaker 2>his wife, which proves to be a wise decision because

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.240
<v Speaker 2>for whatever I mean, there's a number of reasons, but

0:24:56.600 --> 0:24:59.320
<v Speaker 2>tens of millions of American women feel the exact same

0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:01.640
<v Speaker 2>way that the first time they see Oprah, like, oh yeah,

0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:03.720
<v Speaker 2>this is somebody I want to watch every morning. Right,

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:09.640
<v Speaker 2>So Jean Marie was definitely keyed into something there. Oprah

0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:12.440
<v Speaker 2>does not like that she's been picked for this job.

0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:16.040
<v Speaker 2>She's horrified at first, actually, because in her attitude, she

0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:19.520
<v Speaker 2>sees this as another demotion. Right, she had been a

0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.600
<v Speaker 2>co anchor and then kicked down to doing these like

0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:25.399
<v Speaker 2>human interest kind of like, oh, you know there's a

0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:27.040
<v Speaker 2>new you know, it's the kind of stuff they make

0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:29.679
<v Speaker 2>fun of an anchorman, right, there's like a new puppy

0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:33.800
<v Speaker 2>parade or some bullshit, and she's like that, that's this,

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:35.760
<v Speaker 2>This is like fluff. I want to be doing like

0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:37.719
<v Speaker 2>I think that the I want to be Barbara Walters.

0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:41.120
<v Speaker 2>I want to be doing something more hard nosed. Part

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:43.440
<v Speaker 2>of what discussed her is that a big fit thing

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.399
<v Speaker 2>on this morning show is dialing for dollars, which is

0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:50.400
<v Speaker 2>a way that new stations would keep people watching because

0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:52.640
<v Speaker 2>you don't want anyone to switch to another channel if

0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:54.640
<v Speaker 2>they get bored for a second. So you have this

0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:57.960
<v Speaker 2>thing where periodically throughout the day people submit their phone

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:00.920
<v Speaker 2>numbers to the station and we randomly Oprah draws one

0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:03.359
<v Speaker 2>out of a bowl and the station will just send

0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 2>money to that person. Yeah, that's how they and you

0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:07.960
<v Speaker 2>have to be watching constantly to know if your number

0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:10.840
<v Speaker 2>gets picked. Like that's literally how they They're like bribing people,

0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:12.440
<v Speaker 2>please keep watching the show.

0:26:13.119 --> 0:26:16.240
<v Speaker 6>I mean, gambling has never not been the underlying driver

0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:17.879
<v Speaker 6>of everything.

0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:21.160
<v Speaker 2>All of American society. Yes, yes, this whole country's one

0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:24.120
<v Speaker 2>big roulette wheel. And Oprah didn't want to be the creupier.

0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:26.679
<v Speaker 2>It's a croupier for Roulette, is that how you say it?

0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:29.200
<v Speaker 8>It is about to get another people being like, actually,

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:30.800
<v Speaker 8>you said it wrong, Robert.

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 3>It's this.

0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:33.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry. All of the people who would correct me

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.639
<v Speaker 2>on that will die if they spend more than eleven

0:26:35.680 --> 0:26:41.400
<v Speaker 2>seconds away from a slot machine. Those are life support

0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:43.160
<v Speaker 2>systems for a chunk of the populace.

0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:46.919
<v Speaker 4>I think Roulette is also a croupier, but I don't know.

0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I think I got it, I don't know. I don't care.

0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:53.560
<v Speaker 2>I like the word creupia, speaking of gambling, gamble on

0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:56.160
<v Speaker 2>whether or not these products actually do what they say

0:26:56.200 --> 0:27:05.760
<v Speaker 2>they are they do probably, And we're back. So Oprah's

0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:09.360
<v Speaker 2>got this job offer to host this morning show, and

0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 2>she's like, this sounds like death right, This sounds like

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:15.520
<v Speaker 2>the end of my career. Like you're trying to fob

0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:17.240
<v Speaker 2>me off on this thing, and I will be locked

0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:20.560
<v Speaker 2>into this, you know, doing something nobody respects for the

0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 2>rest of my life. The thing that she tells Baker

0:27:22.920 --> 0:27:24.840
<v Speaker 2>is I'm a news person. I don't want to do

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:28.879
<v Speaker 2>a talk show. Then she films her first episode and

0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:31.720
<v Speaker 2>her mind completely changed. The way she describes this is

0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:33.760
<v Speaker 2>as soon as she sits down and makes an episode

0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:35.840
<v Speaker 2>of the Morning Show. Her opinion on it changes on

0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:39.040
<v Speaker 2>a dime. And the reason why is because she gets

0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.440
<v Speaker 2>to hang out with famous people and she's like, oh

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:47.119
<v Speaker 2>wait oh, and I'm going to read a quote now

0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:50.560
<v Speaker 2>from the People Profiles biography of Oprah. This she told

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:54.280
<v Speaker 2>herself is heaven. She recalled, I interviewed Benny from All

0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 2>My Children and the Carvel ice cream Man, and thought,

0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:59.240
<v Speaker 2>heaven because you get to say whatever you feel. You

0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:02.919
<v Speaker 2>truly get to be yourself. Within a year, people are talking,

0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:06.200
<v Speaker 2>which is the Morning Show was beating Donahue in Baltimore,

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 2>the only show in America to do so. Winfrey would

0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:12.520
<v Speaker 2>never read another headline. The minute that first show was over,

0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:15.280
<v Speaker 2>she told good Housekeeping, I thought, thank god, I found

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:17.320
<v Speaker 2>what I was meant to do. It was like breathing

0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:23.359
<v Speaker 2>for me. And that's like very interesting to me because

0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:27.320
<v Speaker 2>it's hard to get across like Donahue is. He's like

0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:29.879
<v Speaker 2>the mister Beast of his era, if you'll forgive me

0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:32.840
<v Speaker 2>from trying to like make he is like the biggest

0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:37.359
<v Speaker 2>guy on on daytime TV, and Oprah is the like,

0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:40.720
<v Speaker 2>this is the only local show that beats Donahue anywhere

0:28:40.760 --> 0:28:42.840
<v Speaker 2>in the United States, and it's due to the fact

0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:45.320
<v Speaker 2>that Oprah is on it right and she has this

0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:51.440
<v Speaker 2>absolutely unique electric connection with her audience. This is recognized

0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:53.880
<v Speaker 2>by people with money and television, and things start to

0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:57.400
<v Speaker 2>move very fast for Oprah after this point, as Pel

0:28:57.480 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 2>scholar Amanda Colin writes in her thesis paper on it

0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:03.280
<v Speaker 2>was role in American culture. In nineteen eighty four, Oprah

0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:07.240
<v Speaker 2>moved to Chicago, Illinois to host wlstv's morning talk show

0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Am Chicago, which became the number one local talk show,

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.200
<v Speaker 2>surpassing ratings for the most popular show at the time,

0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Donahue just one month after she began. The show where

0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:19.760
<v Speaker 2>national syndication in nineteen eighty six, becoming the highest rated

0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 2>talk show in television history. In nineteen eighty eight, Oprah

0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:27.920
<v Speaker 2>established Harpo Oprah Backwards Studios, a production facility in Chicago,

0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 2>making her the third woman in the American entertainment industry

0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:34.480
<v Speaker 2>after Mary Pickford and Lucille Ball, to own her own studio.

0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:38.160
<v Speaker 2>AM Chicago became the Oprah Winfrey Show and remained the

0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:42.680
<v Speaker 2>number one talk show for twenty consecutive seasons. So this

0:29:42.760 --> 0:29:46.120
<v Speaker 2>is like a very rapid explosion in popularity. She goes

0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 2>from getting the show to it becoming number one, to

0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:51.360
<v Speaker 2>it being entirely reframed to being just around Oprah. And

0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:55.440
<v Speaker 2>she establishes a production company and gets like a significant

0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:59.200
<v Speaker 2>degree of ownership in her own show, which is like,

0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:01.440
<v Speaker 2>this is one of the things that's most interesting about

0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Oprah is, especially for somebody who was raised without any

0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:08.480
<v Speaker 2>access to money, the sheer degree of like business savvy

0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:11.360
<v Speaker 2>that she has the fact that she owns a large

0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:14.600
<v Speaker 2>piece of everything she's involved in and eventually owns all

0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:17.560
<v Speaker 2>of it, right, Like she is not like she she

0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:19.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of has this, probably because of how she got

0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:22.160
<v Speaker 2>fucked over with that first job. This understanding that like,

0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:25.000
<v Speaker 2>if I don't own it, it's not worth shit to me,

0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:28.440
<v Speaker 2>right anyway, Oprah.

0:30:28.480 --> 0:30:30.160
<v Speaker 9>So I just.

0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:33.280
<v Speaker 8>Realize something crazy, which is that Oprah, the character that

0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 8>Oprah plays in The Color Purple, she's married to a

0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:37.120
<v Speaker 8>character named Harpo.

0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:39.760
<v Speaker 3>Really, It's like, isn't that crazy?

0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Because I started rewatching it, but I'm gonna be honest,

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 2>I didn't finish it, uh because I was tired. Harpo

0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:49.320
<v Speaker 2>is name.

0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 8>She's married to a character named Harpo in the movie.

0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:56.480
<v Speaker 8>That's why I doesn't realize that that. It's also the

0:30:56.560 --> 0:30:58.520
<v Speaker 8>name of her, it's also her name backward.

0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:02.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, uh huh Yeavy. That's I wonder that has to

0:31:02.800 --> 0:31:05.080
<v Speaker 2>do a beit because she already had harpo the studio.

0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:07.240
<v Speaker 2>At that point, we're gonna talk a little bit about

0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:10.760
<v Speaker 2>the color purple, and Steven Spielberg comes in. I don't

0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:12.360
<v Speaker 2>know if he's a hero. Well, he's not a hero.

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:14.840
<v Speaker 2>He's a weird kind of villain in this story. But

0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:17.320
<v Speaker 2>we'll get to that. And that's that. I can't wait

0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:21.560
<v Speaker 2>so for about a full generation after nineteen eighty four.

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Oprah's fame is a rocket ship. It just keeps going

0:31:24.400 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 2>up and up and up. But what made her show

0:31:27.160 --> 0:31:31.080
<v Speaker 2>so special. Colan's argument is that she offered quote, despair

0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:36.160
<v Speaker 2>disguised as entertainment. In other words, she sensationalized and repackaged

0:31:36.240 --> 0:31:39.840
<v Speaker 2>human suffering for an audience. Quote. When Oprah came on

0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:42.360
<v Speaker 2>the scene, she mirrored this Donahue formula, but with a

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:45.760
<v Speaker 2>unique twist of her own. She, unlike Donahue, revealed her

0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:48.960
<v Speaker 2>own personal struggles and stressed to self help mantra. The

0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 2>audience loved it, and the Oprah Winfrey Show quickly surpassed

0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>her predecessor's ratings. Commonly referred to as trash TV. Oprah

0:31:56.320 --> 0:31:59.680
<v Speaker 2>transformed the talk show genre by turning trash into treasure.

0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:03.000
<v Speaker 2>And that's kind of she starts out and she is

0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:05.840
<v Speaker 2>viewed as like trash. She's viewed as Jerry Springer right

0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 2>for a while, because she's doing that stuff. She's bringing

0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:08.960
<v Speaker 2>on like I'm going to bring on a bunch of

0:32:08.960 --> 0:32:11.120
<v Speaker 2>single undred mothers who are fighting with their dads. I'm

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:13.560
<v Speaker 2>gonna bring on like some clansmen to have an argument with,

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:17.240
<v Speaker 2>like you know whoever on stage and like hope that

0:32:17.240 --> 0:32:19.680
<v Speaker 2>there's a fistfighter some shit. She's doing pieces of that,

0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:23.160
<v Speaker 2>But kind of what shifts the meaning of what she's

0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:25.840
<v Speaker 2>doing is that, unlike a Springer or a Donna Hue

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:29.120
<v Speaker 2>kind of character, she's not standing back and being like,

0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:31.920
<v Speaker 2>look at this zoo I've brought to you. She's like

0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:36.800
<v Speaker 2>opening up her own difficult, troubled past, which kind of

0:32:36.840 --> 0:32:41.080
<v Speaker 2>adds this this like shot of vulnerability into the whole

0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:43.720
<v Speaker 2>mixture that makes it unique and that you can see

0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:46.320
<v Speaker 2>it immediate. That's why it stands out right, That's why

0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:49.880
<v Speaker 2>she rises above these other figures so quickly, right.

0:32:49.920 --> 0:32:53.400
<v Speaker 6>The most Spring and Donaghue, you never got the impression.

0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:56.520
<v Speaker 6>Their point of view was like, look at this shit,

0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:57.120
<v Speaker 6>look at.

0:32:57.040 --> 0:32:57.880
<v Speaker 2>This crazy shit.

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:02.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, like I have an opinion on this crazy shit.

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>I have an opinion. And also like like you people,

0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:08.440
<v Speaker 2>like all you troubled people that I bring on the show,

0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 2>I also have had my troubles and I'm not too

0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:13.880
<v Speaker 2>big to admit them, whereas like Cherry Springer would never

0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:15.680
<v Speaker 2>like break down and cry in front of his audience.

0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 8>Even's final thought, Oh god, yeah, I'm sure of course.

0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:26.200
<v Speaker 2>The one thing I remember from that show is when

0:33:26.200 --> 0:33:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Haroldo got his nose broken by a chair. I think

0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:31.520
<v Speaker 2>that was on Jerry. Was that on Heraldo or Jerry?

0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was.

0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:33.800
<v Speaker 3>I think it was that might have been Heraldo.

0:33:34.040 --> 0:33:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Is that just on Herald? Whatever the is? Rivera got

0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:40.360
<v Speaker 2>his nose broken by a chair. Everybody never forget.

0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:44.880
<v Speaker 8>But I think your point about like this setting Oprah apart,

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:47.000
<v Speaker 8>I think it really is a testament to how her

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:50.760
<v Speaker 8>troubled background really is something that she draws from and

0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:52.960
<v Speaker 8>is able to like like that's I think that is

0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:55.440
<v Speaker 8>the secret sauce of what made this connect in a

0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:56.080
<v Speaker 8>different way.

0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because it's like we're taught it's the same kind

0:33:59.520 --> 0:34:02.680
<v Speaker 2>of like quote unquote trash, but there's less of a

0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:06.600
<v Speaker 2>voyeuristic attitude because, like anytime it starts to lean too much,

0:34:06.680 --> 0:34:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Oprah will drop some sort of anecdote about her own

0:34:09.760 --> 0:34:12.040
<v Speaker 2>background and you're like, oh, okay, so she's really she's

0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:15.600
<v Speaker 2>on the same level as us, right, which she's not,

0:34:15.800 --> 0:34:17.880
<v Speaker 2>but that's how it feels to the viewer at least.

0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.480
<v Speaker 2>The most significant moment for her career in this period

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 2>came right after she moved to Chicago to start The

0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:27.319
<v Speaker 2>Oprah Winfrey Show. On Thursday, December fifth, nineteen eighty five,

0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:30.840
<v Speaker 2>at nine AM, Oprah started her morning show by bringing

0:34:30.840 --> 0:34:34.200
<v Speaker 2>on a young white abuse victim named LORII. She opened

0:34:34.239 --> 0:34:36.840
<v Speaker 2>up by reading some statistics about sexual abuse, namely that

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:39.560
<v Speaker 2>one in three women in the United States had experienced it,

0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:42.759
<v Speaker 2>and then asked, Laurie, your father started out fondling you.

0:34:43.000 --> 0:34:45.640
<v Speaker 2>When did it lead to something other than fondling? She

0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:48.440
<v Speaker 2>pressed with more and more detailed questions, asking what did

0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:50.080
<v Speaker 2>he say to you, how did he tell you? What

0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:53.040
<v Speaker 2>did he tell you? And this is all very uncomfortable

0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:55.960
<v Speaker 2>to see on TV right, and even especially like reading

0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:58.720
<v Speaker 2>the transcript, it's there's an element of it that seems

0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:02.360
<v Speaker 2>a little bit exploitive, kind of constantly pushing for those

0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:06.240
<v Speaker 2>details in front of an audience that said it. Also,

0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:09.360
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of how interviews work. It's just usually

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:12.600
<v Speaker 2>when journalists interview people about these kind of experiences, you

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:15.280
<v Speaker 2>don't get the direct interview transcript. You get an article

0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:18.479
<v Speaker 2>where they've kind of taken out the details but also

0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:22.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of softened aspects of it so that it doesn't

0:35:22.080 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 2>feel that uncomfortable. Oprah's kind of giving you the raw feed,

0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:29.880
<v Speaker 2>and seeing something like this, which is normally a private

0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:35.280
<v Speaker 2>process rendered as public entertainment, is kind of a new thing.

0:35:35.560 --> 0:35:39.279
<v Speaker 2>And particularly what's new about it is that because of

0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:42.640
<v Speaker 2>the way Oprah does this, rather than people feeling like, oh,

0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:45.240
<v Speaker 2>she's kind of exploding this woman, people from the audience

0:35:45.280 --> 0:35:48.680
<v Speaker 2>start to join in spontaneously sharing their own stories of

0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.760
<v Speaker 2>sexual abuse as children. People in the audience start breaking

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:55.000
<v Speaker 2>down into tears, and then Oprah starts talking about her

0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:58.440
<v Speaker 2>own sexual abuse, telling everyone the fact that I had

0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:02.040
<v Speaker 2>all these unfortunate experiences permeates my life and I'm gonna

0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:05.160
<v Speaker 2>quote from Kitty Kelly's book here. For the next few seconds,

0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:07.759
<v Speaker 2>Oprah appeared to be discovering for the first time that

0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:10.040
<v Speaker 2>what she had experienced as a nine year old child

0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:13.200
<v Speaker 2>was indeed rape, a defilement so unspeakable that she had

0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:15.239
<v Speaker 2>never been able to put it into words until that

0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 2>very moment. Her audience felt as if they were watching

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:20.840
<v Speaker 2>the fissures of a soul split open as she admitted

0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:25.960
<v Speaker 2>shameful secret. And nothing like this had ever happened on

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:28.759
<v Speaker 2>daytime TV. There had certainly been like people talking about

0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:33.040
<v Speaker 2>sexual abuse, but the fact that an episode interviewing a

0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:36.840
<v Speaker 2>survivor would lead to both members of the audience breaking

0:36:36.880 --> 0:36:39.400
<v Speaker 2>down and sharing their own stories and then the host

0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:43.640
<v Speaker 2>doing it, that's a totally novel thing, right, Like that

0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:49.000
<v Speaker 2>has never happened before on television, and it creates a firestorm.

0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:51.920
<v Speaker 2>The fact that Oprah does this on air becomes national

0:36:52.000 --> 0:36:55.360
<v Speaker 2>and then international news, and it is people like the

0:36:55.400 --> 0:36:59.520
<v Speaker 2>people running the station are not happy, Like the actual

0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:02.080
<v Speaker 2>executive is the station are like this is supposed to

0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:04.200
<v Speaker 2>be a happy morning show. This is this is like

0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:06.160
<v Speaker 2>this is like for people to like watch what they're drinking?

0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:07.640
<v Speaker 2>What the what the hell is going on here?

0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:07.920
<v Speaker 4>Right?

0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:08.200
<v Speaker 5>Like?

0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Why why are we having stories of child sexual abuse?

0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:14.000
<v Speaker 2>But the ratings are off the charts. It's one of

0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.400
<v Speaker 2>those things where she both gets in trouble with the

0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:19.480
<v Speaker 2>people running the station and also this makes her too

0:37:19.560 --> 0:37:22.480
<v Speaker 2>big to fail, Like this is this, this is It's

0:37:22.480 --> 0:37:25.279
<v Speaker 2>impossible to overstate what a massive moment this is for

0:37:25.400 --> 0:37:29.320
<v Speaker 2>both television as a medium and also for Oprah's career.

0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:36.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah it's I mean, it's there's also just that yeah,

0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:41.080
<v Speaker 4>like what a I guessed risk or like thank god,

0:37:42.440 --> 0:37:42.759
<v Speaker 4>it's a.

0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:45.759
<v Speaker 2>Huge risk because like if the ratings had like her her,

0:37:46.239 --> 0:37:48.360
<v Speaker 2>the people running the station are not happy if the

0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:51.080
<v Speaker 2>ratings had not been there, like she could have gotten

0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:54.640
<v Speaker 2>fired for this. And it's also there's it's such a

0:37:54.680 --> 0:37:57.520
<v Speaker 2>complicated thing to parse out because one thing she's doing

0:37:57.640 --> 0:37:59.560
<v Speaker 2>is this is one of the very first times and

0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:03.400
<v Speaker 2>a public space with this much exposure, that you have

0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:07.600
<v Speaker 2>victims of rape talking about it, not in a way

0:38:07.640 --> 0:38:11.560
<v Speaker 2>that's mediated by psychiatrists or law enforcement or anything like that,

0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:15.120
<v Speaker 2>but is just like survivors talking about it.

0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:15.439
<v Speaker 9>Right.

0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:19.800
<v Speaker 2>And at the same time, Oprah very sees the reaction

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>to this, sees how well it does, and her immediate

0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:26.200
<v Speaker 2>takeaway is like sex cells, we need all of the

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:30.120
<v Speaker 2>sex episodes, every kind of sex, not just like this

0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:32.680
<v Speaker 2>where people are talking about you know their trauma, but like,

0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:36.680
<v Speaker 2>whatever we can get that involves sex, that's what's going

0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:39.759
<v Speaker 2>to make this show keep it on top, right, So, like,

0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:42.919
<v Speaker 2>after this episode she starts Invite. She invites a bunch

0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:45.280
<v Speaker 2>of female porn stars on to talk about the penises

0:38:45.280 --> 0:38:48.120
<v Speaker 2>of her post stars of their co stars. That episode

0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:51.000
<v Speaker 2>gets a thirty percent share of the Chicago audience and

0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:54.960
<v Speaker 2>provokes even more news articles about Oprah because people are

0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:57.640
<v Speaker 2>now like, is this smut? Like how do we talk

0:38:57.719 --> 0:39:01.560
<v Speaker 2>about what she's doing? Nobody's done anything like this before,

0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:05.720
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of the coverage is super critical, super

0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:08.719
<v Speaker 2>like this is incredibly irresponsible. People shouldn't be doing this.

0:39:09.120 --> 0:39:12.080
<v Speaker 2>But it all just drives viewers right more. And the

0:39:12.120 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 2>more stuff that she puts out there that gets people

0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:20.680
<v Speaker 2>shocked and like angry or you know, titillated, the more

0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:25.480
<v Speaker 2>people watch her show. When reporters interviewer about this, Oprah

0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:28.600
<v Speaker 2>tells them, my mandate is to win, admitting that her

0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:32.160
<v Speaker 2>overriding purpose and bringing victims of sexual violence and sex

0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:36.520
<v Speaker 2>workers onto her show is to draw eyeballs. Kitty Kelly

0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:40.040
<v Speaker 2>quotes her former producer, Deborah de Meo, paraphrasing the way

0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Oprah pitched show ideas to her team. I'd love to

0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:45.400
<v Speaker 2>get a priest to talk about sex. I'd love to

0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:47.080
<v Speaker 2>get one to say, yes, I have a lover. I

0:39:47.160 --> 0:39:49.520
<v Speaker 2>worship Jesus and her Yes, I love her, and her

0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:50.440
<v Speaker 2>name is Carolyn.

0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:56.120
<v Speaker 8>I love how Like that's a life like pretty twisted

0:39:56.760 --> 0:39:59.200
<v Speaker 8>over was like I want the like free, I want

0:39:59.239 --> 0:40:00.640
<v Speaker 8>some freaky d in here.

0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Find me a priest who's fucking some lady named Carolyn

0:40:04.040 --> 0:40:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and get her on, get him on. Oh man. So yeah,

0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:14.759
<v Speaker 2>that's like I don't even you can, I guess moralize

0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:17.000
<v Speaker 2>that however you want. It's so fascinating that it goes

0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:20.719
<v Speaker 2>from I have like shared my own horrible experience and

0:40:20.840 --> 0:40:22.719
<v Speaker 2>people connected with that, to like, so we got to

0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:24.880
<v Speaker 2>get some priest who's fucking a lady on this show

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:29.080
<v Speaker 2>right where that's where this guy has to continue going.

0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 4>You know. It is also weird to conclu not weird,

0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:34.880
<v Speaker 4>but like I mean, I guess like more media savvy

0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:37.800
<v Speaker 4>than I am to conclude from that first show that

0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:42.280
<v Speaker 4>sex cells rather than like vulnerability cells or authenticity cells

0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:43.400
<v Speaker 4>or whatever.

0:40:43.480 --> 0:40:47.440
<v Speaker 2>But also all of them sell because her vulnerability and

0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:50.560
<v Speaker 2>authenticity keeps her piet. It's a huge part of her

0:40:50.600 --> 0:40:53.839
<v Speaker 2>ongoing popularity. But so is the sex, So is the

0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:58.440
<v Speaker 2>really sleazy stuff. They never stop doing that, right, I

0:40:58.440 --> 0:41:01.080
<v Speaker 2>guess the answer is all of it. And Oprah has

0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:04.240
<v Speaker 2>very good instincts, you know, wherever we want to land

0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:09.239
<v Speaker 2>morally on what she's doing here. This shit works now.

0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:12.240
<v Speaker 2>It is worth noting that she is depicted in the media.

0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:14.920
<v Speaker 2>This is very hard for like, I had trouble grasping

0:41:14.920 --> 0:41:17.160
<v Speaker 2>this because by the time I was aware of Oprah,

0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:22.480
<v Speaker 2>she had such a different like reputation in the eighties.

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:27.439
<v Speaker 2>She in late seventies and eighties, She's Jerry Springer right.

0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:30.520
<v Speaker 2>She is not a respectable media figure to a lot

0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:32.880
<v Speaker 2>of people. That is not how she's talked about to

0:41:33.000 --> 0:41:35.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people around this time. An article in

0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:38.799
<v Speaker 2>McCall's magazine on the Oprah Winfrey Show described what it

0:41:38.840 --> 0:41:41.280
<v Speaker 2>did it best as quote get him in the gut

0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:47.320
<v Speaker 2>show topics, sexual disorders, battered wise, self mutilation, overweight people

0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:50.040
<v Speaker 2>and the people who hate them, you know, all that

0:41:50.120 --> 0:41:53.800
<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff. Oprah often would say, nothing is taboo,

0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:57.120
<v Speaker 2>and she meant it. Whinfrey's own struggles with weight loss

0:41:57.160 --> 0:41:59.520
<v Speaker 2>and gain quickly became a central part of the show,

0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:03.000
<v Speaker 2>as well, we open this series with the infamous wagon

0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:06.200
<v Speaker 2>of fat incident from nineteen eighty or ninety eight. That

0:42:06.480 --> 0:42:09.279
<v Speaker 2>was gross and bad, but it's also worth noting if

0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:11.160
<v Speaker 2>you want to put that into the context, like how

0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:13.879
<v Speaker 2>we could get to something that gross. It comes after

0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:17.960
<v Speaker 2>a decade of constant public obsession with every pound Oprah

0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:20.200
<v Speaker 2>lost or gained. And this is where we're gonna talk

0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:24.480
<v Speaker 2>about the color purple again. So as I've noted, Oprah

0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:27.759
<v Speaker 2>struggles with you know, binge eating, with her body self

0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:30.360
<v Speaker 2>image from adolescence on like a lot of us, like

0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:33.239
<v Speaker 2>maybe everybody, she has a habit of stress eating and

0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:36.319
<v Speaker 2>was noted by co workers to binge to really uncomfortable

0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:38.360
<v Speaker 2>levels during parties and the like. When she becomes this

0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:41.880
<v Speaker 2>TV star in the mid eighties, people start talking about this,

0:42:42.000 --> 0:42:45.239
<v Speaker 2>like it becomes both in gossip columns and shit like

0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:48.880
<v Speaker 2>the fucking you know, National Inquirer and stuff. There's like

0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:53.080
<v Speaker 2>articles about, you know, stories of Oprah and eating and whatnot.

0:42:53.600 --> 0:42:56.320
<v Speaker 2>And she kind of pivots on this to become radically

0:42:56.320 --> 0:42:59.040
<v Speaker 2>open to her audience about her dieting and her struggles

0:42:59.040 --> 0:43:03.200
<v Speaker 2>with weight gain. Now this helps drive her popularity, but

0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:07.160
<v Speaker 2>it's also it both is in part a reaction to

0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:11.399
<v Speaker 2>and also helps lead to ship like this nineteen eighty

0:43:11.440 --> 0:43:13.880
<v Speaker 2>five appearance on the Tonight Show with Joan Rivers, which

0:43:14.280 --> 0:43:15.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna play for you now. This is one of

0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:18.160
<v Speaker 2>the most uncomfortable things I've seen on television.

0:43:18.200 --> 0:43:19.759
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, Joan was such a bit. I can't

0:43:19.760 --> 0:43:22.000
<v Speaker 3>wait to see. This is so bad. I mean, I

0:43:22.200 --> 0:43:25.560
<v Speaker 3>like Loki, love her, but like, let's be real.

0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, this is this is not great. As

0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:29.720
<v Speaker 2>you went into beauty contest, they tell me your beauty

0:43:29.760 --> 0:43:30.360
<v Speaker 2>contest win us.

0:43:30.440 --> 0:43:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm those fifty pounds ago or so, yeah, but.

0:43:32.920 --> 0:43:33.719
<v Speaker 2>So what'd you win?

0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:34.040
<v Speaker 4>Well?

0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:35.480
<v Speaker 1>I wont them as fire prevention contest?

0:43:35.560 --> 0:43:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Was that a who?

0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:37.480
<v Speaker 1>What fire prevention to?

0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Has you gained the weight?

0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:41.120
<v Speaker 1>I ate a lot because.

0:43:41.719 --> 0:43:43.240
<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, no, no, no.

0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:44.560
<v Speaker 2>No, you said fifty pounds.

0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:45.440
<v Speaker 1>You shouldn't let that.

0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:46.640
<v Speaker 9>Happen to you, very Jody.

0:43:46.680 --> 0:43:48.279
<v Speaker 8>You know what, No, I don't want to hear let

0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:51.640
<v Speaker 8>me tell you that, pretty girl, are you single?

0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:53.000
<v Speaker 3>You must lose the weight.

0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:56.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to you know what we are now am Chicago.

0:43:57.480 --> 0:44:00.919
<v Speaker 1>In Chicago, we're starting a diet with Oprah Grace. Yes,

0:44:01.640 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 1>in conjunction with a tribute so that I have been

0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:05.160
<v Speaker 1>put under pressure to finally do it.

0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:07.280
<v Speaker 10>I am trying to lose five pounds.

0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Will you know how to laugh with me in March

0:44:10.360 --> 0:44:12.799
<v Speaker 1>when I'm back and you lose fifteen, I'll lose five.

0:44:12.920 --> 0:44:16.920
<v Speaker 1>But well, listen, that's you. I'll do I'll keep these

0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:17.440
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not.

0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:18.920
<v Speaker 4>I'm fer I'll do it.

0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:20.160
<v Speaker 3>If you do it, you will.

0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:21.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a deal.

0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:22.879
<v Speaker 3>It's a deal. It's a deal.

0:44:23.000 --> 0:44:23.880
<v Speaker 10>Five pounding it.

0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Grace.

0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:29.000
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that's great, that's great, that's great.

0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:31.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited about it though, because I've gone up and

0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:32.719
<v Speaker 1>down and up, and I've been on every diet. If

0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:36.960
<v Speaker 1>you tried the banana, weeni and egg diet, you might

0:44:37.040 --> 0:44:38.840
<v Speaker 1>know a banana weening and egg? Where eat a banana,

0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:41.239
<v Speaker 1>a weeni and egg? And I've done the pickles and

0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:44.080
<v Speaker 1>peanut butter diet. I just eat cookies.

0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:46.400
<v Speaker 9>But I only eat like eight hundred callies with the cookies.

0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:47.759
<v Speaker 9>I forget you do it that way?

0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:49.799
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah. I saw nel Carter on her last night

0:44:49.840 --> 0:44:52.200
<v Speaker 1>who'd lost Yes, but you couldn't tell. She's still very chubby.

0:44:52.239 --> 0:44:56.960
<v Speaker 1>She just lose more. You lose more, well, I think

0:44:57.200 --> 0:44:59.680
<v Speaker 1>wall people go oh I'm not people and help friends

0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:02.520
<v Speaker 1>that die truth to say, you are still a pig?

0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:07.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, why you are eating disorders so rampant? Is

0:45:07.600 --> 0:45:10.520
<v Speaker 2>it because these are our parents? Effectively?

0:45:11.520 --> 0:45:14.719
<v Speaker 8>Oh I gotta say though, like that was not as

0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:15.120
<v Speaker 8>this is.

0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:16.840
<v Speaker 3>That was not as bad as I thought it was

0:45:16.880 --> 0:45:17.160
<v Speaker 3>going to be.

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:23.120
<v Speaker 8>It's people talk to bigger people, Like people feel totally

0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:25.880
<v Speaker 8>comfortable saying shit like this two people's faces and they

0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:27.040
<v Speaker 8>don't even think twice about it.

0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:29.240
<v Speaker 3>It says like totally how people talk.

0:45:29.680 --> 0:45:31.839
<v Speaker 2>Part of what you're seeing there is like Oprah being

0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:34.799
<v Speaker 2>a professional, because when she describes this moment, she's like, yeah,

0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:37.839
<v Speaker 2>like I was not happy, like this was that, Like

0:45:37.960 --> 0:45:40.560
<v Speaker 2>the the laughing and stuff was all faked. I was

0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:44.000
<v Speaker 2>very unhappy that we were having this conversation, right like

0:45:44.239 --> 0:45:49.000
<v Speaker 2>obviously yeah, no, It's like I can't believe the kind

0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:52.000
<v Speaker 2>of shit that you'd saying there. It was made like

0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:55.200
<v Speaker 2>this whole situation was made worse at the time because like,

0:45:55.520 --> 0:45:57.840
<v Speaker 2>not long after this, while she is like doing this

0:45:58.040 --> 0:46:00.960
<v Speaker 2>very famous publicized diet, it gets announced on the Joan

0:46:01.000 --> 0:46:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Rivers Show. Like the first big thing she does after

0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:06.840
<v Speaker 2>this is she sent to Ethiopia to report on Chicago's

0:46:06.880 --> 0:46:10.120
<v Speaker 2>efforts to help the famine. So the story is simultaneously

0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Oprah trying to lose thirty pounds and Oprah reporting on

0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:16.200
<v Speaker 2>a famine and the Ethiopia not great vibes. One of

0:46:16.200 --> 0:46:18.960
<v Speaker 2>her colleagues asks like, hey, is this kind of gross?

0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:21.759
<v Speaker 2>And Oprah applies, You're right, it's sick, isn't it?

0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:23.680
<v Speaker 3>It is sick.

0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:25.000
<v Speaker 2>It is kind of sick.

0:46:26.000 --> 0:46:26.239
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:46:26.400 --> 0:46:29.040
<v Speaker 2>One fair critique of these episodes is that we're not

0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:31.080
<v Speaker 2>going to go into super clinical detail about all of

0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 2>the different fad diets and dangerous weight loss missinformation that

0:46:34.239 --> 0:46:36.520
<v Speaker 2>comes out of the Oprah Winfrey Show. Part of why

0:46:36.560 --> 0:46:38.719
<v Speaker 2>is because the podcast maintenance Face has done a ton

0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:41.279
<v Speaker 2>of that, so you can check all of that out.

0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I think part of it is just that, like you

0:46:42.640 --> 0:46:45.680
<v Speaker 2>get the idea here, right, It's both important to note that,

0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:48.799
<v Speaker 2>like Oprah like that that clip there, there's a lot

0:46:48.800 --> 0:46:52.440
<v Speaker 2>of pushing on everyone listening to that. Feel bad about

0:46:52.480 --> 0:46:56.320
<v Speaker 2>your body, be ashamed if you've gained weight, embrace dangerous

0:46:56.360 --> 0:46:59.120
<v Speaker 2>strategies to lose it. Oprah has a lot, and Oprah

0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:02.040
<v Speaker 2>will admit it today, a lot of guilt and spreading that.

0:47:02.400 --> 0:47:05.120
<v Speaker 2>But also she is in such a unique position where like,

0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:06.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if there's ever been a single person

0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:10.480
<v Speaker 2>that so many Americans have been so obsessed with their

0:47:10.600 --> 0:47:15.480
<v Speaker 2>body size. Like it's kind of hard not to not

0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:18.680
<v Speaker 2>for that to affect you in a bad way. Like

0:47:19.280 --> 0:47:25.400
<v Speaker 2>we really were insane about Oprah. Yeah, I don't know

0:47:25.560 --> 0:47:28.880
<v Speaker 2>what else to say about that. I will say in

0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:31.000
<v Speaker 2>order to kind of point out the way in which

0:47:31.040 --> 0:47:33.439
<v Speaker 2>people talked about her. One of the most prominent TV

0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:38.080
<v Speaker 2>critics of the day, Richard Blackwell, described Oprah as bumpy, frumpy,

0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:43.000
<v Speaker 2>and downright lumpy on the cover of TV Guide. Jesus So,

0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:46.239
<v Speaker 2>right around the time this is all happening, Oprah is

0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:48.279
<v Speaker 2>on the Tonight Show. Like right around when she's on

0:47:48.320 --> 0:47:50.279
<v Speaker 2>the Tonight Show, she is auditioning for a role in

0:47:50.320 --> 0:47:53.839
<v Speaker 2>the color Purple. After the episode, where again this is

0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:56.960
<v Speaker 2>not as friendly a situation as it appears on the air,

0:47:57.080 --> 0:47:59.960
<v Speaker 2>she's very unhappy about this. She's stress each she gave

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:03.040
<v Speaker 2>more weight, and then she checks herself into a fat farm,

0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:06.040
<v Speaker 2>an emergency weight loss boot camp type program to lose

0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:09.720
<v Speaker 2>the weight. Steven Spielberg, who had directed the movie, finds

0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:13.680
<v Speaker 2>out and he calls Oprah and Spielberg says, I hear

0:48:13.719 --> 0:48:16.560
<v Speaker 2>you're at a fat farm, you lose a pound, you

0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:24.400
<v Speaker 2>could lose this part, she's like, she's fucked no matter what.

0:48:25.320 --> 0:48:29.680
<v Speaker 8>I don't love anybody like micromanaging somebody else's weight.

0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:30.400
<v Speaker 2>But yeah.

0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:33.320
<v Speaker 8>The color Purple is based on a novel by Alice

0:48:33.320 --> 0:48:35.680
<v Speaker 8>Walker and the character she was portraying, like, I like,

0:48:35.719 --> 0:48:37.960
<v Speaker 8>I get it's not something I think he should have said,

0:48:37.960 --> 0:48:39.120
<v Speaker 8>but I get where he's coming from.

0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:46.880
<v Speaker 2>It's it's yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I

0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:50.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know where I should. Yeah, yeah, it's uncomfortable.

0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:57.120
<v Speaker 11>Does Oprah talk about like like not not like to well, yeah,

0:48:57.400 --> 0:48:58.960
<v Speaker 11>I mean, I guess what I'm about to say is

0:48:58.960 --> 0:49:02.319
<v Speaker 11>gonna sound victim. But I'm just caring because part of

0:49:02.680 --> 0:49:07.440
<v Speaker 11>the like this like like attention to her weight. She

0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:09.960
<v Speaker 11>even if it was like going to happen anyway, she

0:49:10.000 --> 0:49:12.239
<v Speaker 11>did profit from like it was like part of the

0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:17.120
<v Speaker 11>like editorial strategy of her show, right, Like, does she

0:49:17.160 --> 0:49:19.680
<v Speaker 11>talk about leaning in on that?

0:49:20.360 --> 0:49:24.520
<v Speaker 2>She She hugely leans in right like she does? She does.

0:49:24.560 --> 0:49:28.719
<v Speaker 2>She in part she makes the specifics of like how

0:49:28.800 --> 0:49:31.040
<v Speaker 2>much she's gaining or how much she is losing and

0:49:31.160 --> 0:49:34.600
<v Speaker 2>what diet she is doing. Part of the show. A

0:49:34.600 --> 0:49:37.200
<v Speaker 2>lot of the money that comes in as a result

0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:40.520
<v Speaker 2>of diet advice. She has deals and gets millions and

0:49:40.560 --> 0:49:43.600
<v Speaker 2>millions from groups like weight Watchers, right pushing a lot

0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:47.000
<v Speaker 2>of different diets she gets paid and also just like

0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:51.280
<v Speaker 2>fills airtime and makes money that way. Putting on different

0:49:51.360 --> 0:49:55.319
<v Speaker 2>diet experts and diet books and a lot of that

0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:58.680
<v Speaker 2>stuff is extremely dangerous. It is both she is being

0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:03.680
<v Speaker 2>victimized by the whole media environment and also profiting on

0:50:03.719 --> 0:50:09.040
<v Speaker 2>that by pushing the same kind of poison on everyone else.

0:50:09.320 --> 0:50:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Right like that That's what's happening here, right like it

0:50:11.719 --> 0:50:16.840
<v Speaker 2>is a story of both victimization and profiting off of

0:50:16.920 --> 0:50:19.560
<v Speaker 2>putting some pretty toxic and oprah. You know, the thing

0:50:19.680 --> 0:50:21.799
<v Speaker 2>she's doing right now is at least copying to some

0:50:22.000 --> 0:50:24.560
<v Speaker 2>of that right now, copying to some of that while

0:50:24.600 --> 0:50:26.839
<v Speaker 2>also getting money from weight Watchers. So, I don't know,

0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:28.799
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where we want to put that out.

0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:31.319
<v Speaker 6>The one thing I am curious about is when we

0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:34.759
<v Speaker 6>as a culture made the transition from saying weenies to

0:50:34.840 --> 0:50:35.839
<v Speaker 6>hot dogs.

0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:41.759
<v Speaker 2>A hot dog based diet today which you should never

0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:43.240
<v Speaker 2>have had a hot dog based diet.

0:50:43.719 --> 0:50:46.319
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I guess I guess not.

0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:53.840
<v Speaker 2>You would know. Yeah. Anyway, so she gives up after

0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:56.239
<v Speaker 2>or at least the way that Oprah tells the story.

0:50:56.239 --> 0:50:58.200
<v Speaker 2>After Spielberg's like, if you lose a pound, you could

0:50:58.239 --> 0:51:01.839
<v Speaker 2>lose this part, Oprah does like fuck it and gives

0:51:01.920 --> 0:51:06.360
<v Speaker 2>up on getting the role and keeps the role, and yeah,

0:51:06.440 --> 0:51:09.560
<v Speaker 2>she winds up doing very well. She gets like massively,

0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:12.200
<v Speaker 2>you know. Like one of the interesting things about Oprah

0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:15.279
<v Speaker 2>is she could have had just a whole career as

0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:19.719
<v Speaker 2>a major Hollywood star. Like she just decides to keep

0:51:19.719 --> 0:51:22.160
<v Speaker 2>being Oprah Winfrey because that turns out to be much

0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:24.640
<v Speaker 2>better for her than being like a movie star. But

0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:29.479
<v Speaker 2>she's very like has a very successful acting career starting out.

0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:33.160
<v Speaker 8>Oh, I mean Color Purple is like it is a classic.

0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:35.440
<v Speaker 8>It's probably the movie I have seen the most times

0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:38.719
<v Speaker 8>in my life. Like it is like a like the

0:51:38.719 --> 0:51:41.240
<v Speaker 8>way that she was in that movie, it was a revelation,

0:51:41.520 --> 0:51:44.360
<v Speaker 8>like even thinking about it now, as good as like

0:51:44.360 --> 0:51:46.840
<v Speaker 8>Whoopi Goldberg is in that movie and Danny Glover is

0:51:46.840 --> 0:51:50.640
<v Speaker 8>in that movie. Danny is the standout character. Even so,

0:51:50.840 --> 0:51:53.200
<v Speaker 8>probably her big scene in the Color Purple is when

0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:55.759
<v Speaker 8>she gives the speech to Seeley all my life. I

0:51:55.800 --> 0:51:58.040
<v Speaker 8>had to fight. If you've heard that Kendrick Lamar song,

0:51:58.120 --> 0:52:00.399
<v Speaker 8>all right, that's the beginning of that song comes from.

0:52:00.520 --> 0:52:03.239
<v Speaker 8>Is Oprah's big scene in that movie? Like that movie,

0:52:03.280 --> 0:52:06.080
<v Speaker 8>the way it shifted the culture we like really cannot

0:52:06.080 --> 0:52:06.799
<v Speaker 8>be overstated.

0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, And it's so fascinating to me that like

0:52:10.960 --> 0:52:14.239
<v Speaker 2>that would be for most people, like, oh shit, I've

0:52:14.280 --> 0:52:17.000
<v Speaker 2>made it. I've like been in this highly praised Hollywood.

0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:18.839
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's the rest of my life. Is I'm

0:52:18.840 --> 0:52:21.440
<v Speaker 2>going to be in movies. Oprah's like, no, no, I

0:52:22.000 --> 0:52:27.680
<v Speaker 2>know a better way to get really famous. So while

0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:30.800
<v Speaker 2>this is going on, her movie career is starting, Oprah

0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:34.239
<v Speaker 2>is continuing to you know, be trash TV. Right, that's

0:52:34.280 --> 0:52:36.879
<v Speaker 2>really this era. And sex is not the only thing

0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:39.400
<v Speaker 2>that she finds out that sells racism gets people to

0:52:39.440 --> 0:52:41.800
<v Speaker 2>tune in. So during Black History Month in the eighties,

0:52:41.960 --> 0:52:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Oprah started booking KKK members to show up wearing sheets

0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:49.480
<v Speaker 2>and hoods. Intermittently, she would book guests with something important

0:52:49.560 --> 0:52:51.839
<v Speaker 2>to say too, like when she did the Women with

0:52:51.920 --> 0:52:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Sexual Disorders episode and talk to a woman who had

0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:58.280
<v Speaker 2>never orgasmed. Oprah brought in a sex surrogate to coach

0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:01.279
<v Speaker 2>her on air, which elicit a flood of complaints, as

0:53:01.360 --> 0:53:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Kitty Kelly documents, yesterday's show was gross, said one woman.

0:53:04.960 --> 0:53:07.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how else to describe it, absolutely degrading.

0:53:08.000 --> 0:53:10.800
<v Speaker 2>There are millions of women who never experienced sexual pleasures,

0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:13.359
<v Speaker 2>said Oprah. We had six hundred and sixty and thirty

0:53:13.360 --> 0:53:15.840
<v Speaker 2>three calls for women yesterday after the show on the computer.

0:53:16.120 --> 0:53:19.080
<v Speaker 2>We made lots of women feel there, not alone. And

0:53:19.120 --> 0:53:22.040
<v Speaker 2>this is what makes especially in this era, it's always

0:53:22.080 --> 0:53:24.440
<v Speaker 2>back and forth, right, because there's this mix of like, oh,

0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:26.880
<v Speaker 2>that's some of the grossest TV I've heard about, and like, oh,

0:53:26.920 --> 0:53:30.160
<v Speaker 2>you're really pushing out some very unhealthy attitudes towards dieting

0:53:30.239 --> 0:53:33.560
<v Speaker 2>into society. And also it's incredibly important for people to

0:53:33.600 --> 0:53:36.560
<v Speaker 2>know about stuff like sexual dysfunction and that there's like

0:53:36.719 --> 0:53:39.360
<v Speaker 2>coaching for that, and to not feel ashamed, like this

0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:41.840
<v Speaker 2>is a thing that we can talk about in public.

0:53:42.600 --> 0:53:46.720
<v Speaker 2>And Oprah's always so much of both of those things.

0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:50.960
<v Speaker 2>That said, when for every episode like this, you'd get

0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:52.960
<v Speaker 2>where it's like, yeah, I'm glad someone in the fucking

0:53:53.000 --> 0:53:56.080
<v Speaker 2>eighties was talking about like sexual dysfunction and the fact

0:53:56.120 --> 0:53:58.760
<v Speaker 2>that there are treatments available that you can and should

0:53:58.800 --> 0:54:02.400
<v Speaker 2>seek you. So right from that to Oprah being like, also,

0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:05.160
<v Speaker 2>the devil is coming for your children, and this is

0:54:05.200 --> 0:54:08.320
<v Speaker 2>going to get us onto one of my favorite subjects,

0:54:08.440 --> 0:54:14.399
<v Speaker 2>how Oprah Winfrey helped start the Satanic Panic? But first, ah, yes,

0:54:14.600 --> 0:54:19.440
<v Speaker 2>but first you know who else is the devil? But

0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:22.400
<v Speaker 2>like the sexy devil, Like the devil when he's played

0:54:22.400 --> 0:54:24.920
<v Speaker 2>by that guy who also played the President in the

0:54:24.960 --> 0:54:28.319
<v Speaker 2>Command and conquer Red Alert too. You know that guy.

0:54:28.360 --> 0:54:30.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm just nodding. I'm just nodding.

0:54:30.080 --> 0:54:32.319
<v Speaker 2>Everyone's just nodding. Nobody else remembers that guy. He played

0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:40.760
<v Speaker 2>the devil once. Look him up. We're back. Four people

0:54:40.840 --> 0:54:44.239
<v Speaker 2>are so happy I just made that reference. Everyone else

0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:51.160
<v Speaker 2>has stopped listening forever. So Satanic Panic. In nineteen eighty nine,

0:54:51.160 --> 0:54:54.680
<v Speaker 2>a Canadian psychiatrist and con man named Lawrence Pasder wrote

0:54:54.680 --> 0:54:58.440
<v Speaker 2>a book about his patient, who he later married, Michelle Smith,

0:54:58.920 --> 0:55:02.560
<v Speaker 2>claiming he recovered her memories of participating and elaborate impossible

0:55:02.600 --> 0:55:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Satanic rituals while being abused for the devil's gain. This book,

0:55:06.719 --> 0:55:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Michelle remembers, helped launch the Satanic Panic, a religious moral

0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:13.840
<v Speaker 2>panic that ruined hundreds of lives and laid much of

0:55:13.880 --> 0:55:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the groundwork for QAnon to take off today. We maybe

0:55:17.080 --> 0:55:20.600
<v Speaker 2>don't get the Trump presidency without the Satanic panic. That

0:55:20.760 --> 0:55:24.480
<v Speaker 2>was some necessary groundwork, right, You got to put in

0:55:24.520 --> 0:55:28.440
<v Speaker 2>those load bearing pillars, and this is where that's coming from.

0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:32.080
<v Speaker 2>And Oprah helps get it off the ground. She brings

0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:35.319
<v Speaker 2>Laurence and Michelle onto her show, along with several other

0:55:35.400 --> 0:55:38.560
<v Speaker 2>prominent If you are a Satanic panic con person, right

0:55:38.600 --> 0:55:42.000
<v Speaker 2>who is like I worship the Devil, I sacrificed babies,

0:55:42.280 --> 0:55:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Oprah will let you say whatever to At this point,

0:55:46.160 --> 0:55:49.040
<v Speaker 2>literally tens of millions of people are tuning into her show.

0:55:49.400 --> 0:55:51.200
<v Speaker 2>I want to start with a clip of a nineteen

0:55:51.239 --> 0:55:55.080
<v Speaker 2>eighty six episode which wasn't about the Satanic Panic, but

0:55:55.200 --> 0:55:59.160
<v Speaker 2>contained a sting for their upcoming episode on devil worshipers.

0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:02.000
<v Speaker 2>And I want to it's just because you know, we talk.

0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:04.279
<v Speaker 2>I throw to ads in a lot of you know,

0:56:04.760 --> 0:56:07.440
<v Speaker 2>different ways here, but I got a bow to the

0:56:07.560 --> 0:56:08.680
<v Speaker 2>master class here.

0:56:09.360 --> 0:56:10.960
<v Speaker 1>All right, we'll come back and we're going to talk

0:56:11.000 --> 0:56:12.279
<v Speaker 1>about sex some more.

0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:17.120
<v Speaker 3>Back in a moment, the Devil.

0:56:18.200 --> 0:56:21.720
<v Speaker 2>The screen after she says that is just a picture

0:56:21.800 --> 0:56:24.880
<v Speaker 2>of the devil on a TV screen holding his own tail,

0:56:24.960 --> 0:56:29.799
<v Speaker 2>with the Thursday Victims of Satanic worship. I love that

0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:32.880
<v Speaker 2>iconic coming next to the devil.

0:56:33.440 --> 0:56:34.080
<v Speaker 4>Oh my god.

0:56:34.640 --> 0:56:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Also, we're gonna talk about sex and more. We should

0:56:37.160 --> 0:56:40.200
<v Speaker 2>have thrown to ads now, Sophie, Sorry, that would have

0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:40.840
<v Speaker 2>been the way.

0:56:40.680 --> 0:56:41.120
<v Speaker 5>To do it.

0:56:41.360 --> 0:56:43.560
<v Speaker 3>Uh, next time, Bud, you got to.

0:56:43.560 --> 0:56:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Learn from the masters here. Now I'm gonna play or

0:56:46.200 --> 0:56:48.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna have Sophie play another clip. I think from

0:56:48.800 --> 0:56:52.000
<v Speaker 2>closer to nineteen eighty nine or nineteen ninety. Most of

0:56:52.040 --> 0:56:55.839
<v Speaker 2>Oprah's early shows are not preserved in a convenient way,

0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:57.439
<v Speaker 2>So I did my best here.

0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:00.520
<v Speaker 10>Our next guest was used also in word shipping. The

0:57:00.560 --> 0:57:05.400
<v Speaker 10>devil participated in human sacrifice, rituals, rituals, and cannibalism. She

0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:08.959
<v Speaker 10>says her family has been involved in rituals for generations.

0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:13.480
<v Speaker 10>She's currently an extensive therapy suffers from multiple personality disorder,

0:57:13.760 --> 0:57:16.200
<v Speaker 10>meaning she's blocked out many of the terrifying and painful

0:57:16.240 --> 0:57:19.120
<v Speaker 10>memories of her childhood. Rachel, who is also in disguise

0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:23.440
<v Speaker 10>to protect her identity, you come from generations of ritualistic abuse.

0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:27.040
<v Speaker 9>Yes, my family is an extensive family tree, and they

0:57:27.120 --> 0:57:29.320
<v Speaker 9>keep track of who's don In thousand and.

0:57:29.360 --> 0:57:36.240
<v Speaker 2>She's in disguise, good really yes, yeah, okay, okay, what's

0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:37.040
<v Speaker 2>the disguise?

0:57:37.120 --> 0:57:38.160
<v Speaker 5>What's disgus like?

0:57:40.960 --> 0:57:41.919
<v Speaker 2>Is this there?

0:57:42.440 --> 0:57:44.640
<v Speaker 3>Isses?

0:57:46.160 --> 0:57:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay? Okay, yeah, the clark can her?

0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:49.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, she put on.

0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:51.520
<v Speaker 2>When she takes those glasses off, her family's not going

0:57:51.520 --> 0:57:53.440
<v Speaker 2>to recognize the devil can't catch.

0:57:53.200 --> 0:57:57.320
<v Speaker 5>Her, sorry, presuming just was very.

0:57:57.160 --> 0:58:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Thrown off by them. That is funny, Okay.

0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:03.440
<v Speaker 3>In disguise, it's impossible to tell on her.

0:58:04.320 --> 0:58:06.360
<v Speaker 2>And I don't say this to shame her. I'm shaming

0:58:06.400 --> 0:58:09.760
<v Speaker 2>the nineties. You can't tell a bad wig from normal hair.

0:58:09.600 --> 0:58:11.520
<v Speaker 4>In like nineteen you know you can't.

0:58:11.600 --> 0:58:12.760
<v Speaker 2>There's no way to do it.

0:58:12.800 --> 0:58:16.640
<v Speaker 3>But that brooch is long, that brooches something.

0:58:16.760 --> 0:58:22.080
<v Speaker 9>Yes, thousand who hasn't been involved and it's gone back

0:58:22.240 --> 0:58:28.919
<v Speaker 9>who by seventeen hundred and so you were right. I

0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:31.440
<v Speaker 9>was going into a family that believes in this.

0:58:33.320 --> 0:58:35.600
<v Speaker 10>And this is it. This is Does everyone else think

0:58:35.640 --> 0:58:38.920
<v Speaker 10>it's a nice Jewish family from the outside? You appear

0:58:38.960 --> 0:58:41.600
<v Speaker 10>to be a nice Jewish girl, definitely, and you all

0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:43.320
<v Speaker 10>are worshiping the devil inside the home?

0:58:43.560 --> 0:58:47.800
<v Speaker 9>Right, there's other Jewish families across the country not just know.

0:58:48.880 --> 0:58:51.360
<v Speaker 4>Really, so.

0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:55.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I have to tell you why this

0:58:55.720 --> 0:59:02.680
<v Speaker 2>is dangerous. That's a real bad thing to have twenty

0:59:02.720 --> 0:59:08.680
<v Speaker 2>million people watching, like not great, Well, the Jews are

0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:10.280
<v Speaker 2>secretly worshiping the devil.

0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:12.680
<v Speaker 6>Gee.

0:59:14.080 --> 0:59:17.320
<v Speaker 8>They might appear as like wholesome, normal family, but the

0:59:17.520 --> 0:59:18.800
<v Speaker 8>hind closed doors.

0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:23.800
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, Oprah is literally just doing the blood libel

0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:27.440
<v Speaker 2>on data TV, on the most popular talk show in

0:59:27.480 --> 0:59:30.880
<v Speaker 2>the country. And we're going to continue here because it

0:59:31.080 --> 0:59:34.240
<v Speaker 2>just gets I am shocked that this was allowed.

0:59:34.880 --> 0:59:36.840
<v Speaker 10>What kind of things went on in the family.

0:59:38.080 --> 0:59:42.120
<v Speaker 9>Well, there would be rituals in which babies would be sacrificed,

0:59:42.160 --> 0:59:43.840
<v Speaker 9>and you would have to you.

0:59:43.800 --> 0:59:47.360
<v Speaker 10>Know babies, So are people who bread.

0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:49.960
<v Speaker 9>Babies in our family, no one would know about it.

0:59:50.000 --> 0:59:52.320
<v Speaker 9>A lot of people were overweight, so you couldn't tell

0:59:52.400 --> 0:59:53.600
<v Speaker 9>if they were pregnant or not.

0:59:54.160 --> 0:59:54.960
<v Speaker 4>Or they would.

0:59:54.760 --> 0:59:57.560
<v Speaker 9>Supposedly go away for a while and then come back.

0:59:58.040 --> 0:59:59.480
<v Speaker 9>The other thing I want to point out, not all

0:59:59.560 --> 1:00:01.320
<v Speaker 9>Jewish the sacrifice babies.

1:00:01.400 --> 1:00:07.360
<v Speaker 10>I mean, it's not kind. I heard of any Jewish

1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:08.680
<v Speaker 10>people sacrifice some babies.

1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:10.840
<v Speaker 4>But anyway, so you.

1:00:10.880 --> 1:00:14.520
<v Speaker 9>Witnessed the sacrifice right when I was very young, I

1:00:14.680 --> 1:00:17.640
<v Speaker 9>was forced to participate in that in which I had

1:00:17.680 --> 1:00:20.520
<v Speaker 9>a sacrifice an infant, and.

1:00:20.520 --> 1:00:23.520
<v Speaker 10>The purpose of sacrifices to what is to bring you what?

1:00:23.520 --> 1:00:24.640
<v Speaker 9>What are you sacrificing for?

1:00:24.880 --> 1:00:25.440
<v Speaker 4>For power?

1:00:28.160 --> 1:00:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have a lot of questions. First off, do

1:00:32.720 --> 1:00:35.080
<v Speaker 2>we think it makes it better for Oprah to offhandy

1:00:35.120 --> 1:00:37.480
<v Speaker 2>to be like I've never heard of Jewish people sacrificeing

1:00:37.560 --> 1:00:42.600
<v Speaker 2>babies before anyway, tell me about these Jewish baby sacrifices.

1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:48.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, I mean this does get closer to her

1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:50.400
<v Speaker 2>future crimes.

1:00:49.960 --> 1:00:54.520
<v Speaker 4>Of like like clearly if even even if you want.

1:00:54.400 --> 1:00:58.360
<v Speaker 6>To remove like the any sort of like willful malice

1:00:58.480 --> 1:01:05.080
<v Speaker 6>from Oprah, like a pretty shameful credulity is on display here, yes, Like.

1:01:05.400 --> 1:01:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like Mike, as a middling journalist, my first question

1:01:10.360 --> 1:01:12.800
<v Speaker 2>would be, are you not worried you're gonna get arrested

1:01:12.800 --> 1:01:15.600
<v Speaker 2>because you just admitted to murdering a baby on television?

1:01:15.800 --> 1:01:16.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:20.120
<v Speaker 2>You know that's a crime, right, But there's no statut

1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:23.600
<v Speaker 2>limitations on killing a baby.

1:01:24.520 --> 1:01:25.720
<v Speaker 3>So I have a question.

1:01:25.680 --> 1:01:29.920
<v Speaker 8>Like, like what is the production of this, like behind

1:01:29.920 --> 1:01:31.160
<v Speaker 8>the scenes, Like where do they find this?

1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:33.440
<v Speaker 3>Lady? Did they are just like, oh, you've got.

1:01:33.280 --> 1:01:35.960
<v Speaker 8>A story about killing babies and sacrifice, come on on

1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:36.960
<v Speaker 8>the air or tell us about it?

1:01:37.120 --> 1:01:39.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, you get pieces of this. Nobody will directly

1:01:39.880 --> 1:01:42.120
<v Speaker 2>say like we just we're full of shit, right, we

1:01:42.240 --> 1:01:45.640
<v Speaker 2>just lied, you know, but but you can tell that

1:01:45.680 --> 1:01:47.919
<v Speaker 2>what's happening. You get this, Like that previous clip rope

1:01:48.000 --> 1:01:49.280
<v Speaker 2>was like I want a priest too, did this and

1:01:49.320 --> 1:01:52.120
<v Speaker 2>this and this right, because it'll it'll sell an episode.

1:01:52.320 --> 1:01:55.560
<v Speaker 2>She's like, I want someone talking about sacrificing babies. And

1:01:55.600 --> 1:01:58.200
<v Speaker 2>you know what is exists in the world, and you

1:01:58.240 --> 1:02:01.040
<v Speaker 2>don't have to coach people on this. If you let

1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:03.840
<v Speaker 2>enough people know, you can get on TV in front

1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:07.200
<v Speaker 2>of twenty million people, if you talk about sacrificing a baby,

1:02:07.600 --> 1:02:10.920
<v Speaker 2>there will be someone whose desperation for attention is so

1:02:11.080 --> 1:02:13.720
<v Speaker 2>high that they will come on television and claim to

1:02:13.760 --> 1:02:16.439
<v Speaker 2>have sacrificed a baby. That's the way people are.

1:02:16.680 --> 1:02:18.640
<v Speaker 8>That's the person you should give a platform for sure.

1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:22.560
<v Speaker 8>That's a healthy person, well adjusted. Help them spread their message.

1:02:22.720 --> 1:02:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we love Oprah Winfrey doing things that are Again,

1:02:25.880 --> 1:02:28.400
<v Speaker 2>as a guy who's read a lot of Nazi propaganda,

1:02:28.440 --> 1:02:34.439
<v Speaker 2>almost indistinguishable from Nazi propaganda like this is specifically one

1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:37.680
<v Speaker 2>of the major justifications of the Holocaust. Jews are abducting

1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Christian babies and sacrificing them to the devil, like that

1:02:40.880 --> 1:02:47.040
<v Speaker 2>is really bad to do. I really can't emphasize enough

1:02:47.280 --> 1:02:50.160
<v Speaker 2>how dangerous this thing is. And if you look at

1:02:50.160 --> 1:02:53.080
<v Speaker 2>shit like in QAnon right where there's a like a

1:02:53.120 --> 1:02:55.920
<v Speaker 2>third of the country believes that the Democratic Party are

1:02:56.000 --> 1:03:00.200
<v Speaker 2>literally eating babies to gain everlasting youth, which like just

1:03:00.200 --> 1:03:03.919
<v Speaker 2>look at Nancy Pelosi, Guys, she's not getting everlasting youth,

1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:08.840
<v Speaker 2>like her hip just broke. This is unequivocal bastardism, right, Like,

1:03:08.920 --> 1:03:10.640
<v Speaker 2>this is a bad thing to be doing.

1:03:12.040 --> 1:03:17.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and you know, I mean presumably the thing was

1:03:17.520 --> 1:03:20.880
<v Speaker 6>like wink, We're not going to ask you any hard questions, right,

1:03:21.000 --> 1:03:22.080
<v Speaker 6>let's just get the rating.

1:03:22.360 --> 1:03:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Just tell me, give me some detention. And it's it's

1:03:24.920 --> 1:03:28.080
<v Speaker 2>so fucked up that, like, on one hand, when you're

1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:30.440
<v Speaker 2>doing this about like you are talking to someone about

1:03:30.560 --> 1:03:34.200
<v Speaker 2>their their difficulty. You know, I've never experienced an orgasm.

1:03:34.400 --> 1:03:36.240
<v Speaker 2>You're asking these kind of questions to get them to

1:03:36.280 --> 1:03:39.560
<v Speaker 2>say more. That is making other people with the problem

1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:42.560
<v Speaker 2>of whom there are many feel less alone. Same thing

1:03:42.640 --> 1:03:45.680
<v Speaker 2>with like sexual assault survivors. And then the fact that

1:03:45.720 --> 1:03:49.160
<v Speaker 2>you have your you have absolutely no compunction with like

1:03:49.240 --> 1:03:54.800
<v Speaker 2>I'll do the same thing for Lias about juice sacrificing babies. Yeah,

1:03:55.200 --> 1:03:56.320
<v Speaker 2>fascinating stuff.

1:03:56.880 --> 1:03:59.480
<v Speaker 8>I'm curious if she because it sounds like at one

1:03:59.520 --> 1:04:01.520
<v Speaker 8>point in her her career she really thought of herself

1:04:01.560 --> 1:04:03.760
<v Speaker 8>as like a news person, a journalism person.

1:04:03.960 --> 1:04:05.600
<v Speaker 3>What does she think about her career now?

1:04:06.280 --> 1:04:09.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, here's the thing, because Oprah never really trained

1:04:09.280 --> 1:04:14.520
<v Speaker 2>in journalism very much. I don't know if she maybe

1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:19.520
<v Speaker 2>believes this, if she thinks these are the same, Like,

1:04:19.920 --> 1:04:22.040
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of the thing to me because but also

1:04:22.040 --> 1:04:25.480
<v Speaker 2>I want to be like, you are clearly brilliant. You

1:04:25.520 --> 1:04:28.200
<v Speaker 2>are a once in a lifetime genius at least it's

1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:31.440
<v Speaker 2>some things. But also, as we've all seen, we've all

1:04:31.480 --> 1:04:33.200
<v Speaker 2>become increasingly aware of people who are like, well, you're

1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:38.240
<v Speaker 2>clearly brilliant at one thing, and now your access to

1:04:38.280 --> 1:04:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Twitter has made us all aware that you don't understand

1:04:40.480 --> 1:04:41.080
<v Speaker 2>anything else.

1:04:41.480 --> 1:04:44.560
<v Speaker 4>So, I mean, the evidence is seems to be that

1:04:44.560 --> 1:04:46.919
<v Speaker 4>people who are brilliant on one thing may actually.

1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Be terrible in everything.

1:04:48.440 --> 1:04:48.880
<v Speaker 4>Standard.

1:04:49.520 --> 1:04:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it may just be that Oprah is a once

1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:56.440
<v Speaker 2>in a lifetime mind when it comes to the business

1:04:56.440 --> 1:05:01.240
<v Speaker 2>of entertainment, and also honestly believed this woman sacrificing babies

1:05:01.240 --> 1:05:01.960
<v Speaker 2>with her family.

1:05:03.640 --> 1:05:04.240
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1:05:04.960 --> 1:05:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Now that said, we have the fact that we have

1:05:06.920 --> 1:05:08.520
<v Speaker 2>quotes from her being like, hey, get me a priest

1:05:08.520 --> 1:05:11.480
<v Speaker 2>who said this makes me kind of lean more in

1:05:11.480 --> 1:05:15.600
<v Speaker 2>the direction of Norah Oprah new right. Some of this,

1:05:15.720 --> 1:05:17.880
<v Speaker 2>A lot of this is bullshit and it was just

1:05:17.920 --> 1:05:21.560
<v Speaker 2>trying to get eyeballs on the TV, don't I think

1:05:21.600 --> 1:05:23.960
<v Speaker 2>it's often a mix, Like, I don't know how much

1:05:23.960 --> 1:05:25.920
<v Speaker 2>she's able to parse it herself. I want to talk

1:05:25.920 --> 1:05:29.760
<v Speaker 2>about another incident that kind of really makes me go

1:05:29.880 --> 1:05:33.360
<v Speaker 2>back and forth, which is the McMartin preschool satanic abuse scandal.

1:05:33.880 --> 1:05:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Now we cover this in our episodes on the Satanic Panic,

1:05:36.920 --> 1:05:38.320
<v Speaker 2>but the gist of the case is that a bunch

1:05:38.360 --> 1:05:40.840
<v Speaker 2>of parents became convinced that their children, more than three

1:05:40.880 --> 1:05:43.800
<v Speaker 2>hundred of them at all, had been systematically abused by

1:05:43.840 --> 1:05:46.560
<v Speaker 2>a Satanic cult headed by the McMartin family, who ran

1:05:46.560 --> 1:05:50.280
<v Speaker 2>a private preschool. The initial allegations, which included claims that

1:05:50.320 --> 1:05:53.000
<v Speaker 2>one of the alleged molesters could fly, were made by

1:05:53.080 --> 1:05:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Judy Johnson, who suffered from schizophrenia and was a hardcore alcoholic.

1:05:57.600 --> 1:06:02.000
<v Speaker 2>From her allegations, a community hysteria developed, which was stoked

1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:05.320
<v Speaker 2>by an abuse therapy clinic run by Kee McFarlane, who

1:06:05.320 --> 1:06:10.480
<v Speaker 2>provided investigations that pushed children with leading questions towards generating allegations.

1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:13.920
<v Speaker 2>A whole lot of people had their lives ruined by this.

1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:17.920
<v Speaker 2>And despite the fact that the investigation literally dug up

1:06:17.960 --> 1:06:20.680
<v Speaker 2>the ground around the school to try to find secret

1:06:20.760 --> 1:06:24.120
<v Speaker 2>satanic torture tunnels, no one was ever convicted of molesting

1:06:24.120 --> 1:06:27.240
<v Speaker 2>any kids and people. I don't. I hate relitigating this

1:06:27.280 --> 1:06:29.560
<v Speaker 2>because people are always like WEO. But they did find tunnels, No,

1:06:29.680 --> 1:06:34.200
<v Speaker 2>they didn't. They found trash buried underneath the school because

1:06:34.200 --> 1:06:38.560
<v Speaker 2>a farm had been there and people bury trash. All

1:06:38.600 --> 1:06:41.440
<v Speaker 2>of the shit that was buried in there was stuffed

1:06:41.480 --> 1:06:43.640
<v Speaker 2>from the era at which there was a farm there

1:06:43.680 --> 1:06:48.240
<v Speaker 2>where people were burying trash, the dead animal bones. That's

1:06:48.360 --> 1:06:51.880
<v Speaker 2>just what happens in the ground, guys. That's just how

1:06:51.960 --> 1:06:57.000
<v Speaker 2>things are. It's not they weren't running tunnels to molest

1:06:57.160 --> 1:06:58.560
<v Speaker 2>toddlers for the devil.

1:06:59.360 --> 1:07:03.760
<v Speaker 12>It's also just it's like the logistics of like running

1:07:04.600 --> 1:07:08.240
<v Speaker 12>a fucking satanic call, Like what the fuck are you

1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:09.720
<v Speaker 12>talking about again?

1:07:09.760 --> 1:07:12.240
<v Speaker 2>It's one of those and like I'm not saying no

1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:15.200
<v Speaker 2>kid ever got molested at this or other preschools like that.

1:07:15.280 --> 1:07:17.440
<v Speaker 2>A lot of times the satanic abuse does come from

1:07:17.480 --> 1:07:20.320
<v Speaker 2>there's a real sexual abuse problem, and then it gets

1:07:20.360 --> 1:07:24.360
<v Speaker 2>turned into something that absolutely isn't happening, and again, shitloads

1:07:24.400 --> 1:07:26.720
<v Speaker 2>of innocent people get wrapped into it too. Yeah, I

1:07:26.720 --> 1:07:28.040
<v Speaker 2>don't think I'm not saying that was a happen at

1:07:28.080 --> 1:07:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Macmartin because again, nobody got convicted of anything.

1:07:32.200 --> 1:07:36.360
<v Speaker 4>So it's not highly correlated with Satan. No, in fact,

1:07:36.560 --> 1:07:40.600
<v Speaker 4>it might be higher correlated with Satan's old friend.

1:07:41.360 --> 1:07:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And in fact, church leaders, Southern Baptist leaders, Catholic priests,

1:07:47.080 --> 1:07:50.600
<v Speaker 2>police officers, these are the people who are molesting kids.

1:07:50.680 --> 1:07:53.440
<v Speaker 2>And honestly, more than any of those their own parents

1:07:53.480 --> 1:07:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and relatives, that's who does it. That's who molests kids.

1:07:57.480 --> 1:08:00.200
<v Speaker 8>But it's so much more satisfying to believe it's I'm

1:08:00.280 --> 1:08:03.240
<v Speaker 8>like big conspiracy, and Andrew to your point.

1:08:03.160 --> 1:08:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Look at a cousin and uncle. Huh sorry what they

1:08:07.880 --> 1:08:08.800
<v Speaker 2>can fucking fly?

1:08:09.360 --> 1:08:10.520
<v Speaker 4>What do they need tunnles for?

1:08:11.120 --> 1:08:12.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, what do they need?

1:08:12.560 --> 1:08:12.760
<v Speaker 3>Why?

1:08:12.840 --> 1:08:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Why are they doing.

1:08:13.600 --> 1:08:14.400
<v Speaker 3>This in tunnels?

1:08:15.400 --> 1:08:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Like?

1:08:15.520 --> 1:08:16.799
<v Speaker 3>Why does that make more sense?

1:08:17.040 --> 1:08:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So as this in this case winds on for

1:08:20.439 --> 1:08:23.360
<v Speaker 2>like like a couple of years, Oprah, it is constantly

1:08:23.400 --> 1:08:25.320
<v Speaker 2>on the show, they are following. This is like the

1:08:25.320 --> 1:08:28.120
<v Speaker 2>OJ Simpson trial, you know, before the OJ Simpson trial

1:08:28.160 --> 1:08:30.759
<v Speaker 2>for Winfrey. And here like they are following every twist

1:08:30.760 --> 1:08:34.160
<v Speaker 2>and turn in this case breathlessly. And when these people

1:08:34.200 --> 1:08:38.519
<v Speaker 2>don't get convicted, Oprah and her audience are outraged. She

1:08:38.720 --> 1:08:42.160
<v Speaker 2>refuses to accept this. She brings a bunch of the

1:08:42.280 --> 1:08:45.360
<v Speaker 2>children and parents and even some of the jurors onto

1:08:45.400 --> 1:08:49.479
<v Speaker 2>the show to relitigate the case. And She's not the

1:08:49.520 --> 1:08:52.320
<v Speaker 2>only person doing this. She's part of a trendon daytime TV.

1:08:52.439 --> 1:08:55.479
<v Speaker 2>Heraldo Rivera does the same thing, so does Sally Jesse Raphael,

1:08:55.880 --> 1:08:59.479
<v Speaker 2>But as La Times columnist Howard Rosenberg noted, compared to them,

1:09:00.040 --> 1:09:02.840
<v Speaker 2>Raaldo was as judicious as the Supreme Court. In other words,

1:09:02.840 --> 1:09:07.599
<v Speaker 2>he's saying Heraldo's coverage of this was responsible next to Oprah's.

1:09:07.840 --> 1:09:12.599
<v Speaker 2>And Heraldo Rivera is not a responsible man. I don't

1:09:12.600 --> 1:09:14.280
<v Speaker 2>know how else to describe him. Again, when he got

1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:15.800
<v Speaker 2>hit in the nose with that share, it was the

1:09:15.840 --> 1:09:18.479
<v Speaker 2>best thing that ever happened to this country. Quote and

1:09:18.520 --> 1:09:21.479
<v Speaker 2>here's Rosenberg, the level of fairness here was typified by

1:09:21.479 --> 1:09:23.799
<v Speaker 2>Winfrey's admission that she would have made a poor macmartin

1:09:23.880 --> 1:09:26.920
<v Speaker 2>juror because I would say the children said it, all right,

1:09:27.000 --> 1:09:31.680
<v Speaker 2>you're right. The studio audience applauded. You see pieces this

1:09:31.760 --> 1:09:34.240
<v Speaker 2>too that like if the children say it, it's true,

1:09:34.320 --> 1:09:36.680
<v Speaker 2>If a mom says it, it's true, it's like, No,

1:09:37.560 --> 1:09:40.680
<v Speaker 2>you have to have an evidentiary standard when you are

1:09:40.760 --> 1:09:45.320
<v Speaker 2>accusing huge numbers of people of hideous crimes. You can't

1:09:45.400 --> 1:09:48.400
<v Speaker 2>just say we put a bunch of kids in a

1:09:48.479 --> 1:09:50.960
<v Speaker 2>room and wouldn't let them leave until they told stories

1:09:51.000 --> 1:09:54.519
<v Speaker 2>of satanic molestation tunnels and then lock people up forever.

1:09:54.960 --> 1:09:58.160
<v Speaker 2>That's a bad way to run a society. Yeah, I

1:09:58.840 --> 1:10:04.479
<v Speaker 2>don't know good stuff. So while she's doing this, she

1:10:04.600 --> 1:10:06.920
<v Speaker 2>like has all these people on. She tells like a

1:10:06.960 --> 1:10:10.160
<v Speaker 2>former mcmartin's student, like to tell the audience what she

1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:13.760
<v Speaker 2>told the jury, like over sixteen days of testimony. And

1:10:13.800 --> 1:10:15.920
<v Speaker 2>while this is happening, like you're getting these frequent shots

1:10:15.920 --> 1:10:19.040
<v Speaker 2>of the audience like shaking their heads and like listening

1:10:19.040 --> 1:10:22.280
<v Speaker 2>to these horrible stories. One of the moms tells Winfrey,

1:10:22.320 --> 1:10:25.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm outraged at this verdict, And yeah, it's it's just

1:10:26.479 --> 1:10:30.839
<v Speaker 2>it's very irresponsible. I don't know. I think it's probably

1:10:30.880 --> 1:10:32.720
<v Speaker 2>bad for there to be a case where all of

1:10:32.720 --> 1:10:36.519
<v Speaker 2>these people are rung through the mud on television, then

1:10:36.520 --> 1:10:39.640
<v Speaker 2>acquitted and then have a whole show where you're like,

1:10:39.680 --> 1:10:42.680
<v Speaker 2>but actually they were still guilty. These people molest these

1:10:42.680 --> 1:10:45.880
<v Speaker 2>innocent people molested. A shitload of kids are running us

1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:49.599
<v Speaker 2>like their lives are already ruined. Oprah, what are you doing?

1:10:50.280 --> 1:10:50.680
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

1:10:51.120 --> 1:10:52.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't like this. I don't like this.

1:10:52.640 --> 1:10:55.599
<v Speaker 4>Has she ever spoken about any of that? No? No,

1:10:55.600 --> 1:10:56.000
<v Speaker 4>no, no no.

1:10:57.400 --> 1:10:59.639
<v Speaker 8>And I'd have to imagine if she did, the answer

1:10:59.640 --> 1:11:01.680
<v Speaker 8>would be like, well, everybody was doing it, like this

1:11:01.840 --> 1:11:03.960
<v Speaker 8>is what people didn't but.

1:11:03.960 --> 1:11:07.559
<v Speaker 2>You were the most popular of them, right right right?

1:11:07.680 --> 1:11:11.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, he use this thing with I mean even the

1:11:11.960 --> 1:11:15.439
<v Speaker 6>most popular shows. Though, It's like you are still following trends,

1:11:15.479 --> 1:11:18.559
<v Speaker 6>like you may have a hand on the scale for sure,

1:11:18.800 --> 1:11:23.080
<v Speaker 6>but there is a point to where you know the yeah,

1:11:23.080 --> 1:11:25.639
<v Speaker 6>as we've seen multiple times, like the snowball gets out

1:11:25.640 --> 1:11:29.719
<v Speaker 6>of control and you are simply, regardless of your size,

1:11:29.760 --> 1:11:30.800
<v Speaker 6>you are along for the ride.

1:11:31.360 --> 1:11:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Yep, Well how's everyone feeling so far?

1:11:36.240 --> 1:11:37.559
<v Speaker 4>Finally got bad?

1:11:38.000 --> 1:11:39.080
<v Speaker 2>It did it did?

1:11:39.120 --> 1:11:42.160
<v Speaker 6>It was pretty bad before, but finally Oprah's doing some

1:11:42.600 --> 1:11:43.559
<v Speaker 6>evident bad.

1:11:43.880 --> 1:11:55.200
<v Speaker 2>The worm has turned, you would say, Uh, anyway, plugs.

1:11:55.560 --> 1:11:57.040
<v Speaker 3>Love that everybody's been bummed.

1:11:57.200 --> 1:11:57.640
<v Speaker 7>Play to go.

1:11:58.439 --> 1:12:00.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know that was like a like a tough

1:12:00.760 --> 1:12:02.160
<v Speaker 3>spot to end at.

1:12:02.400 --> 1:12:05.439
<v Speaker 8>I guess, although I will say I'm still thinking about

1:12:05.520 --> 1:12:08.799
<v Speaker 8>that headline or that title of her of the review

1:12:09.040 --> 1:12:10.840
<v Speaker 8>MLK shot twice.

1:12:10.640 --> 1:12:12.880
<v Speaker 3>That I'm gonna be thinking about that one for a

1:12:12.920 --> 1:12:13.400
<v Speaker 3>long time.

1:12:13.560 --> 1:12:17.480
<v Speaker 4>That's that is a level of petty. That is very beautiful. Yeah,

1:12:17.640 --> 1:12:22.000
<v Speaker 4>very nice. I don't know. I got a podcast called

1:12:22.080 --> 1:12:23.679
<v Speaker 4>Jos Racist. It's fine.

1:12:25.520 --> 1:12:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Check out?

1:12:26.160 --> 1:12:26.240
<v Speaker 9>Yo?

1:12:26.479 --> 1:12:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Is this racist? Check out? There are no girls on

1:12:29.120 --> 1:12:34.000
<v Speaker 2>the internet. Uh, and find our our hosts online and

1:12:34.120 --> 1:12:37.639
<v Speaker 2>let them know your favorite moment from the Oprah Winfrey Show.

1:12:37.720 --> 1:12:41.639
<v Speaker 2>Bombard us all on Blue Sky with your favorite Oprah clips.

1:12:41.680 --> 1:12:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Don't do that, oh do it to me?

1:12:44.080 --> 1:12:46.960
<v Speaker 8>I mean I had to like bite my tongue as

1:12:46.960 --> 1:12:49.000
<v Speaker 8>I have so much to say. Go ahead and sumam

1:12:49.080 --> 1:12:51.360
<v Speaker 8>me on behind our on Blue Sky. I want to

1:12:51.360 --> 1:12:53.400
<v Speaker 8>hear your favorite Oprah takes. I will tell you mine.

1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Don't bite your tongue.

1:12:55.560 --> 1:12:57.439
<v Speaker 8>Oh it would just be me talking about and another

1:12:57.479 --> 1:12:59.439
<v Speaker 8>time on Oprah she did this and then another episode

1:12:59.479 --> 1:13:02.640
<v Speaker 8>she did that it would be so unfun to listen to.

1:13:02.960 --> 1:13:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, part four, we're gonna we'll find out, We'll find out,

1:13:06.600 --> 1:13:14.280
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna supercharge Bridget. Just just let you loose until

1:13:14.280 --> 1:13:16.960
<v Speaker 2>next time. Folks, don't put people up in front of

1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:19.160
<v Speaker 2>the country and tell them that you sacrifice babies for

1:13:19.200 --> 1:13:19.599
<v Speaker 2>the devil.

1:13:21.800 --> 1:13:22.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:13:23.800 --> 1:13:26.519
<v Speaker 5>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:13:26.880 --> 1:13:30.160
<v Speaker 5>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1:13:30.320 --> 1:13:33.519
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1:13:33.640 --> 1:13:36.760
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1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:40.880
<v Speaker 5>Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1:13:40.960 --> 1:13:44.599
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<v Speaker 5>at Behind the Bastards