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Speaker 1: As Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Behind the Bastard's We're.

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Speaker 3: On page eighteen fifty two.

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Speaker 2: I know a podcast where Robert Evans accidentally wrote twenty

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Speaker 2: almost twenty four thousand words about Oprah for this these episodes.

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Speaker 2: The normal length of a book is fifty thousand words,

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Speaker 2: so half of a book about fucking Oprah, And like

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Speaker 2: I was having panic attacks at the end of this

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Speaker 2: of like, oh my god, I'm leaving so much out.

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Speaker 2: I'm leaving so much from like this, this this really good

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Speaker 2: book age of Oprah out because like I just don't

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Speaker 2: even know how to like fit everything in. But I

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Speaker 2: have to start this episode with our wonderful guests, the

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Speaker 2: inimitable bridget Todd and the glorious Sainted. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: Andrew t I'm trying to think of new new adjectives to.

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Speaker 4: Continua becomes what did you do to become a saint?

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Speaker 2: What's a saying I actually have to die? No you don't, No,

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Speaker 2: you don't. I think you don't have to die. I'm

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Speaker 2: probably okay.

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Speaker 4: Just let me know I'm down.

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Speaker 2: Bridgie, you could also be a saint, but I'm not.

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Speaker 2: I just don't get major Catholic vibes from you.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I actually did go to Catholic school.

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Speaker 2: Oh you did, well, Okay, I'm gonna I'm going to

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Speaker 2: redirect the habit that I've got headed for Andrew, and

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Speaker 2: it's going to go to you, Andrew. Sorry, I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying anything.

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Speaker 5: You have to uh, you know, live virtuously.

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Speaker 2: You have to die for the faith, so like you have.

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Speaker 5: To martyr h perform miracles.

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Speaker 2: He's performed a miracle.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if all of these are required at once.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's every everyone who's made it on

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Speaker 2: time for Behind the Bastards recording, since that sat through

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Speaker 2: a whole episode as a guest has performed a miracle.

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Speaker 3: I said, it has been a martyr.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, my most miraculous thing is since we're doing

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Speaker 6: video is I'm holding up my favorite coffee cup.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I love that.

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Speaker 3: By chance to buy that in Maryland? Did you? That's

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Speaker 3: giving me big Maryland vibes?

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Speaker 4: I'm sure from Maryland? Maine.

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Speaker 3: Oh, they have they do crabs out there too?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 4: Not good?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Could they?

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Speaker 7: I can't imagine mastations. It's so hardcore lobster territory. I

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Speaker 7: don't know if lobsters and crabs fight. Sorry for we're

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Speaker 7: already over.

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Speaker 6: We're The whole discussion has been how long this is

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Speaker 6: going to be? And I've just trying to figure out

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Speaker 6: if there's crabs in Maine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's. There's for sure crabs in Maine. They've

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Speaker 2: got lobster at McDonald's.

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Speaker 4: In part part But that's my whole point.

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Speaker 3: Part three seems normal.

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Speaker 2: Part four is I there's there's there's no logic to

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Speaker 2: the number of parts. This might may wind up more

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Speaker 2: episodes than we thought. I have to start with something,

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Speaker 2: which is a mea culpa. I made some mistakes in

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Speaker 2: the last episodes. Guys, tell us I'm so sorry. I'm

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Speaker 2: so so sorry. So here's the thing. When you're doing

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Speaker 2: a podcast like this, like it's a mix of you

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Speaker 2: do a bunch of research and you write a bunch

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Speaker 2: of things to get a bunch of facts out that

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Speaker 2: you are as accurate as you can, but you're also

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Speaker 2: having a conversation, so you do stuff like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: bringing up the biblical story of Ruth. I don't know

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Speaker 2: much about Ruth. I only included it in the episode

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Speaker 2: to make a bad joke about Star Wars. The Phantom Menace,

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Speaker 2: and so I made a comment about it. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I think she's got something to do with Moses. She

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Speaker 2: does not, And all of the Bible people got onto

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Speaker 2: me for that one, and I'm sorry.

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Speaker 7: How big a part of your audience is the Bible people.

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Speaker 2: A shockingly large number of Well, I think it's because

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Speaker 2: we have a lot of like ex vangelicals in the audience,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of people who were raised evangelical and

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Speaker 2: then got better.

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Speaker 6: I'm just gonna throw this out there. That wasn't an error.

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Speaker 6: That was a fucking dork trap, and they all fell

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Speaker 6: into it.

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Speaker 2: They felt the same cannot be said for my heinous

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Speaker 2: and unforgivable comments about the March of Dimes because I

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Speaker 2: made a comment that like, I don't know, I guess

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Speaker 2: it's probably a cancer charity, and then a bunch of

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Speaker 2: people popped in and be like, no, it's for this,

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Speaker 2: and then other people were like, actually, when Oprah was

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Speaker 2: a kid, it didn't do that. It was for a

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Speaker 2: completely different thing. So we're all wrong, although again it

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Speaker 2: had nothing to do with cancer. So I was wrongest,

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Speaker 2: but like you guys were wrong too. Most of you

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Speaker 2: who criticized me because it wasn't about that then, so

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Speaker 2: fuck you. I love you. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: What is it for?

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Speaker 2: It's it's right now. I think it's for like 's's

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Speaker 2: let's look up the march at times, let's let's get

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Speaker 2: it right. Babies, Yeah, immature babies. But it was like

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Speaker 2: about polio before that and.

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Speaker 5: Trying to correct Robert.

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Speaker 3: That is my mother.

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Speaker 2: Improved the health of mothers and babies, right, Robert.

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Speaker 3: Robert is never wrong, He's perfect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I never like say stuff during Like one of

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Speaker 2: the things you learn about yourself during doing this is

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Speaker 2: like how often in daily conversation and we all do this,

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Speaker 2: you just like say things that are a part of

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Speaker 2: your understanding of the world that are not right, because

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Speaker 2: that's like life. We all pick up a bunch of bullshit,

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Speaker 2: like the number of time.

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Speaker 3: I just don't think you should have to apologize.

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Speaker 5: Right now, I take that burden from you.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry saying Robert, but he's innocent.

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Speaker 2: All I'm saying is record everything you've ever you ever

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Speaker 2: say in a single day of conversations with people, and

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Speaker 2: then run them by a fact checker, and you will

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Speaker 2: be amazed at how much of like the load bearing

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Speaker 2: fat pillars of your reality are things you absolutely believe

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Speaker 2: without thinking that are not true. It's amazing.

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Speaker 8: It's the worst part of being a podcaster is like

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Speaker 8: having a public record of stupid shit that you thought,

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Speaker 8: or if you're me, shit that you thought was pronounced

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Speaker 8: one way and it's put another way.

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Speaker 2: The pronunciation like, So for this episode, I spent almost

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Speaker 2: three hours looking at Oprah's uh one of her charity's

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Speaker 2: tax returns. None of that made it end of the

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Speaker 2: episode turned out not to be interesting. But you know

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Speaker 2: what I didn't remember to do was look up whether

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Speaker 2: or not Ruth had anything to fucking do with Moses, Like,

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Speaker 2: I just don't.

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Speaker 5: I think you just you're you're doing great, Pal.

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Speaker 4: I've fail to see how this is a problem.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 6: Also, I just wanted to jump in March of Dimes

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Speaker 6: previous Polio charity.

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Speaker 4: The way things are going, they might need to go back.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 2: That's that's again. I love Polio. And I feel like

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Speaker 2: because we got a lot of my favorite writers, Robert,

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 5: We're fifty two pages.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well let's get into this. So when we last

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Speaker 2: left off, Oprah had gotten her first radio gig with

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Speaker 2: a radio DJ who was surprisingly not problematic John Heidelberg.

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Speaker 2: People online have been pointing out other stuff about him apparently, fine,

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Speaker 2: So congratulations John Heidelberg. When we're talking about DJs being problematic,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about old timey radio DJs, because if you

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Speaker 2: look into the history of like very famous old timey

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Speaker 2: radio DJs, not a lot of them were great people.

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Speaker 2: But apparently John was so good for you, John Heidelberg,

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Speaker 2: you went our behind the Bastard's Award for being a

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Speaker 2: sex best as a DJ in the nineteen seventies. You're

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Speaker 2: the only person who's won that award, by the way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's got to be a club of one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a club of You are the loneliest

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Speaker 2: man in history. So the next several years of Oprah's

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Speaker 2: life involved a pretty boring time in college. We're not

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Speaker 2: going to get into it, but she starts doing beauty contests,

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Speaker 2: and she's very good at beauty contests. One of the

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Speaker 2: biggest moments in her early life is she wins the

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Speaker 2: miss Fire Prevention contest. Now, I know what you're all saying,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck is miss fire prevention? And to understand this,

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Speaker 2: you have to know that back in the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 2: everything was flammable. People only wore petroleum products, Every couch

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Speaker 2: was made out of petroleum products, and everyone fell asleep

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Speaker 2: with a lit cigarette in their mouth, so everything and

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Speaker 2: everyone was constantly on fire. Yeah, so this was a

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Speaker 2: real problem. Also, everyone was on binzos, so you would

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Speaker 2: it was like every week in your neighborhood either a

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Speaker 2: drunk day labor like either either the husband would come

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Speaker 2: home from like his work in a fucking law factory

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Speaker 2: and pass out drunk with a cigarette in his mouth

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Speaker 2: and wipe out the entire family, or the housewife would

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Speaker 2: take too many benzos and pass out with a lit

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Speaker 2: cigarette in her mouth and wipe out the whole family.

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Speaker 2: But either whatever was happening, fire was killing absolutely everyone,

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Speaker 2: and so we were like, we have to find the

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Speaker 2: hottest person in order to represent not burning your family

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Speaker 2: to death because you fell asleep with a lit cigarette

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Speaker 2: in your mouth, and Oprah was that person. Isn't that nice.

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Speaker 3: Fun fact about that.

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Speaker 8: That's why we have like flame retardant couches now, because

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Speaker 8: the cigarette industry was like, we can't keep getting popped for.

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Speaker 3: That were possibility.

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Speaker 2: We're fine with killing people so many other ways, but

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Speaker 2: all these house fires are really cutting into our business.

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Speaker 6: Please tell me the first fire retarded couches were just

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Speaker 6: made of asbestos.

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Speaker 2: It probably will. God, I'll have to go for a

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Speaker 2: nice asbestus couch to know that I'm both like sitting

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Speaker 2: down on the couch to watch horrible news happen and

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Speaker 2: also shortening my time on this earth. Beautiful. Oprah was

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Speaker 2: the first black woman to win the Miss Fire Prevention contest,

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Speaker 2: and that's great. During questioning by a panel of judges,

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Speaker 2: she said that she wanted to be a journalist like

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Speaker 2: Barbara Walters. She was asked what she would do if

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Speaker 2: she was given a million dollars, and everyone else in

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Speaker 2: the contest expressed kind of like, I'll help the poor,

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Speaker 2: I'll help my family, whereas Oprah just admitted I would spend, spend, spend,

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Speaker 2: I'd just be a spending fool.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, Actually love that.

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Speaker 2: You better respect that. Look, I grew up poor as shit.

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Speaker 2: I would spend it.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: This was definitely a legitimate win Miss Fire Prevention. However,

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Speaker 2: her next big contest win, the Miss Black Nashville contest,

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Speaker 2: was a little bit shadier. Everyone involved about it seems

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Speaker 2: to agree that another girl, Maud had been a better contestant,

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Speaker 2: but Oprah shocked everyone by winning, and the motor of

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Speaker 2: the event would later claim that several people complained to him,

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Speaker 2: and so he did a recount of the votes and

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Speaker 2: found out that Maud had in fact been the rightful winner,

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Speaker 2: but her name had gotten switched with Oprah's by somebody

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Speaker 2: for unknown reasons. Now we don't know what happened. Some

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Speaker 2: people have theorized Oprah set the whole thing up somehow.

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Speaker 2: I think there's at least an equally good probability based

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Speaker 2: on just like the vibes. I get that the promoter

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Speaker 2: of the event kind of had a weird thing for Oprah.

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Speaker 2: His name was Gordon El Greco Brown, and I don't

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Speaker 2: trust that name. I just don't trust that name like

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Speaker 2: that that is the name of like a used car

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Speaker 2: dealer from fucking Encina who also happens to be a

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Speaker 2: neo Nazi. I'm not saying that's Gordon Ell Greco Brown.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying that's the name Gordon O. That's what

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Speaker 2: that conjures, Gordon El like the Greco Brown Elco.

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Speaker 4: So he's Gordon Gecko L Brown.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that that man has so many different opinions

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Speaker 2: on the various coke dealers in his area that he

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Speaker 2: has to keep track of them in a notebook. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: when Oprah was notified, I'm not saying that about the literal.

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Speaker 2: I'm not slandering the actual man. I'm just saying that's

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Speaker 2: how his name sounds. Anyway. Oprah gets notified of this

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Speaker 2: error that Maud really won, and she says like, well,

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Speaker 2: fuck it, you guys gave me the award. I'm not

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Speaker 2: giving it back. In Kitty Kelly's kind of mean biography,

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Speaker 2: a lot is made about the fact that Oprah like

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Speaker 2: doesn't give this up and I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 2: really care, like you handed her the award, so she's

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Speaker 2: not wrong to be like, fuck you, guys. Oprah goes

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Speaker 2: to Tennessee State University, or TSU, which is a black college,

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Speaker 2: but she doesn't go to the more prestigious in nearby

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Speaker 2: Fisk University, known locally as the Black Harvard. I think

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Speaker 2: this is just a matter of expense. Oprah seems to

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Speaker 2: be insecure about this. Later, she spends her social time

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Speaker 2: hanging out at FISK. Her dad is like, look, you

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Speaker 2: know I could afford to send her to TSU. And

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Speaker 2: so I did. I will say, because Kitty Kelly makes

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Speaker 2: a lot about like, yeah, Oprah couldn't get into the

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Speaker 2: good school, she couldn't hack it. I've read like from

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Speaker 2: the anecdotes we get about TSU, it doesn't sound great.

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Speaker 2: There's a good one from one of her professors, doctor W. D. Cox,

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Speaker 2: that and this, this is what this guy, doctor Cox,

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Speaker 2: this actual professor says later about teaching Oprah. And I

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Speaker 2: think he thinks this makes him sound funny. During our

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Speaker 2: stay in the city, a girl was reported raped on

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Speaker 2: the second floor. I told a lie on Oprah. If

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Speaker 2: Oprah had known about the rape, she'd have shouted you

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Speaker 2: who I'm up here. Oprah didn't take too kindly to

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Speaker 2: that joke. She was quite provoked. Do you guys catch that?

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Speaker 2: He says a girl got raped? And I said, hey, Oprah,

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Speaker 2: you would like that. That's the talking about this decades later,

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Speaker 2: being like, can you believe she didn't find it funny?

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Speaker 2: That's nuts, that's insane.

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Speaker 5: Somebody laughed at him though, and he that like charged

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Speaker 5: that shit.

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Speaker 2: Maybe or the whole like, I don't know what things

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Speaker 2: you're like in the seventies.

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Speaker 5: Laugh at men's jokes that aren't funny.

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Speaker 2: Just you should get fired, period.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The whole joke is I bet you'd like get it

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Speaker 2: like that's yeah, wild stuff.

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Speaker 8: You want to me that he like even in retelling

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Speaker 8: that he's like and she didn't even find it funny.

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Speaker 3: She wasn't. Can you believe it?

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Speaker 2: He describes it as enjoying a little foolishness at Oprah's expense.

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Speaker 2: He's still going, that's not what that is, a little

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Speaker 2: foolish should be like, you know, talking about I don't

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Speaker 2: know the fact that she's obviously wants to be a star,

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Speaker 2: making a little bit of joke about how she likes attention,

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Speaker 2: not like that.

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Speaker 6: This is not yeah, like and this this dude has

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Speaker 6: been holding onto that joke.

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Speaker 2: For Kitty Kelly in twenty ten ten Jesus Christ, Oh

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Speaker 2: you just know, like just I'm guessing based on his

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Speaker 2: age that like she goes to see him in an

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Speaker 2: old folks home and like his fucking kids come in,

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh no, get her out of here. We

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Speaker 2: can't let dad be talking to a journalist like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, so Oprah. The big standout detail from her

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Speaker 2: college years is she plays Coretta Scott King in a

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Speaker 2: local production of the Tragedy of Martin Luther King Junior.

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Speaker 2: And the main reason this is relevant is that a

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Speaker 2: reviewer for the school paper reviews this play by saying,

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Speaker 2: Martin Luther King murdered twice? I do love how bit

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Speaker 2: you that is?

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Speaker 9: That's good?

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Speaker 2: Like shit? Imagine because he had to have sat with

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Speaker 2: that review title just being like, I can't say this,

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Speaker 2: can I?

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad for.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing it. Near the end of nineteen seventy two,

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Speaker 2: oh forgets her first TV gig when her boss at

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Speaker 2: WVOL called a local TV station WTVFTV and told them

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Speaker 2: that he had a girl who was interested in broadcasting.

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Speaker 2: This was during a period where the FCC had just

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Speaker 2: introduced diversity requirements for on air talent, and Oprah was

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Speaker 2: hired quickly. She generally describes this as an affirmative action.

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Speaker 2: Hire Again, the guy you hires her is like, no,

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Speaker 2: she was the best qualified candidate, you know, I don't

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Speaker 2: know either way. It doesn't really matter because this proves

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Speaker 2: to be a very good hiring decision. The truth Oprah

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Speaker 2: was a skilled performer and had experienced both on the

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Speaker 2: radio and as a pageant winner. That said, she was

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Speaker 2: hired to be a journalist, which she had no experience doing,

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Speaker 2: and she winds up reporting on city Hall, she cheerfully admitted.

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Speaker 2: As soon as she starts the job, she tells all

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Speaker 2: her coworkers, I lied during my interview. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how to do this job. Like her first day, she

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Speaker 2: tells the crew, I don't know what I'm doing. Please

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Speaker 2: help me because, like I told the director, I understood

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Speaker 2: how to do this job. And it's a remark. It's

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Speaker 2: a mark of her charisma that everyone on the crew's like, well, okay,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of nice.

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Speaker 6: Damn yeah, Like what a it's not even a hail Mary,

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Speaker 6: But what do you like? Like high variants, play the Hey,

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Speaker 6: by the way, what's up?

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Speaker 4: How do you do this job?

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Speaker 2: I mean that is how like entertainment works, right, Like

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Speaker 2: everyone I know in this industry has a story of like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I talked myself into a room that I probably didn't

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Speaker 2: have the right to be in and then it worked hard.

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Speaker 4: Yes, the b side of admitting yeah, I would say

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Speaker 4: a lot.

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Speaker 2: Less yeah, I one of the Again, we're about to

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Speaker 2: get into all of the horrible things Oprah has been

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Speaker 2: involved in. But one thing that I do consistently admire

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Speaker 2: about her is that she doesn't dress up this aspect

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Speaker 2: of her life. She's like, yeah, man, I lied, sheeated

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Speaker 2: and stolen until I could be on TV. You know,

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Speaker 2: is everyone who gets famous on DV right, Like, yeah, I.

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Speaker 8: Got my first podcast job lying about knowing final cut

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Speaker 8: pro and then I had to like go on learn

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Speaker 8: how to use pro.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's how. Look, kids, if you're looking at getting

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Speaker 2: entertained into entertainment, get good at lying, because that's the

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Speaker 2: job Oprah experienced. A This is an uncomfortable transition, but

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of racism on the job. A

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Speaker 2: large part of it was like she's the first black

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Speaker 2: on air talent that they have.

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Speaker 10: Uh.

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Speaker 2: She winds up interviewing a lot of people who like

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Speaker 2: they see a black journalist and just start calling her

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Speaker 2: slurs to her face. She won awards though she's very ambitious.

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Speaker 2: Her colleagues. That's the primary thing her colleagues from this

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Speaker 2: period remember about her is that Oprah is a climber.

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Speaker 2: She is somebody who is like crawling up to the top.

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Speaker 9: Right.

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Speaker 2: At one point, she takes over for a producer who,

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Speaker 2: like she gets on set, he clearly doesn't know what

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Speaker 2: he's doing for this Black History Week presentation, and she

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Speaker 2: directs the entire segment herself. She is also, by everyone's admission,

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Speaker 2: doing Hella drugs during this period, although everyone at the

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Speaker 2: TV station is doing Hella drugs, this is a local

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Speaker 2: TV station in the seventies. I want to read a

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Speaker 2: paragraph from the book Oprah, a biography based on a

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Speaker 2: conversation with her former colleague Patty Outlaw. It was just

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Speaker 2: nuts working at that station. Drugs, drugs, drugs all the time,

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Speaker 2: drugs all over the place. They were even selling window

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Speaker 2: panes of LSD in the hall. Drugs were so prevalent

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Speaker 2: that the new staff gave Vic Mason, Oprah's co anchor,

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Speaker 2: a coke spoon as a gift. Chris and I look

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Speaker 2: the other way, said Jimmy Norton, who confirmed that station

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Speaker 2: management removed a vending machine once they discovered it had

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Speaker 2: been rigged to dispense marijuana. That sounds pretty cool.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, in Chicago, where was this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, no, No, they're not even in I think

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Speaker 2: they're Yeah, they're in Nashville, Stone, Nashville. Yeah, they're in Nashville. Still,

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Speaker 2: she does move up to the big leagues pretty quickly,

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Speaker 2: but she doesn't go straight to Chicago. After a few

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Speaker 2: years in Nashville, she gets a job in Baltimore. She's

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Speaker 2: not really happy there, even though this is a big

385
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Speaker 2: step up Baltimore obviously being a bigger city, because she

386
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 2: feels like she's on a ticking timer right but like

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Speaker 2: by the time, her attitude is like, by the time

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Speaker 2: I'm twenty four, I have to be where I want

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Speaker 2: to be because then I'm like too old and washed up,

390
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Speaker 2: which you know, that's the way a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: that's the way TV is for a lot of women aligently,

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Speaker 2: but like it's certainly not going to be that way

393
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Speaker 2: for Oprah. Baltimore turns out to be a disaster though.

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Speaker 2: The longtime anchorman for the station, who she has made

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Speaker 2: to be like the co anchor, hates her and she's

396
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Speaker 2: not really experienced enough, like he's been doing it for decades.

397
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Speaker 2: She doesn't really know what she's doing yet, so she

398
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Speaker 2: very quickly gets demoted, but she's still on contract. So

399
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Speaker 2: it's one of those things where she's getting a lot

400
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Speaker 2: of money, but she's basically not doing the job that

401
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 2: she got hired to do. She's instead getting all these

402
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Speaker 2: terrible little human interest stories that she considers beneath her.

403
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Speaker 2: So this is a frustrating period, but her saving grace

404
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 2: is always her ambition. Denied itansmen at the station, she

405
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 2: starts performing at churches, schools in different black community spaces,

406
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Speaker 2: building a fan base locally the hard way. She also

407
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 2: has a series of interracial relationships while she is working

408
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Speaker 2: at the station, which is noteworthy because that is not

409
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Speaker 2: a common thing at the time, and the fact that

410
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Speaker 2: she is dating white guys in her personal life becomes

411
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Speaker 2: public news. A bunch of local white radio DJs make

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Speaker 2: it like a reoccurring thing that they talk about on

413
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Speaker 2: the air, like Oprah is dating. I don't just bring

414
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 2: that up to be like wow, and like it's like no, no, no,

415
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 2: this is like she has to deal with this being

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Speaker 2: part of like local news.

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Speaker 8: Can I say something because I do think it highlights

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Speaker 8: how unequal the playing fields are for black women in media.

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Speaker 8: I mean black women across the spectrum of any profession,

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Speaker 8: but like like local radio DJs, so people who ostensibly

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Speaker 8: are also colleagues are also in media, making it a

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Speaker 8: joke segment about who she is dating romantically privately like

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Speaker 8: that having to contend with that on top of having

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Speaker 8: to do your job with all these eyes on you.

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Speaker 8: I mean like it's completely ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like it's nuts and like, for an example

427
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Speaker 2: of how fucking insane it is, one of these local

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Speaker 2: radio DJs described she's dating like a Jewish reporter right

429
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Speaker 2: who works at a competing station. One of these guys

430
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Speaker 2: on the radio describes their relationship as Omar Sharif is

431
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Speaker 2: dating aunt Jemima Jesus Jesus Christ. Oh boy, you should

432
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Speaker 2: just explode when you say something like that.

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Speaker 4: God.

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Speaker 2: So, she had always been something of a binge eater,

435
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: largely as a response to stress, and as is probably

436
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 2: not surprising, the stress of like being in the public

437
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Speaker 2: eye and having all of this shit about you be

438
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 2: public discussion causes that to be even more of a problem.

439
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy seven, she starts paying a diet doctor

440
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 2: to help her drop weight for the first time, and

441
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 2: she starts attending overreaders anonymous courses. Sure of stress and

442
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 2: starving herself causes her hair to fall out, or at

443
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 2: least that's one story. Oprah later is going to insist

444
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 2: that she lost her hair because executives at the station

445
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 2: demanded that she go to New York for a French

446
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: hairdresser to quote make me a Puerto Rican by bleaching

447
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 2: her skin and changing her hair. I don't know. Yeah, Like,

448
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: because you get these two different versions of how she

449
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: loses her hair, it's very hard to say what the

450
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 2: truth is. The news producer is like the company didn't

451
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,959
Speaker 2: have the budget to send her to New York. She

452
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: also claims that the former news director tries to get

453
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: her to change her name to Susie. He denies this.

454
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's all a little muddled. It doesn't

455
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 2: I don't know how much like where the truth lies

456
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 2: here super matters, Right, There's definitely some stuff that she's

457
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 2: like exaggerating, but she's also literally people are talking about

458
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 2: her relationships on the air in a very racist way.

459
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 2: So like, I don't know, I feel like you get

460
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,719
Speaker 2: the general gist, which is that she is in an

461
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 2: incredibly stressful and unfair situation here at work.

462
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, Like the public record is like even if

463
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 6: she's straight up lying about literally is yeah like here

464
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 6: say like who cares?

465
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: Like yeah, right right, Like that's kind of where I

466
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: land on this. That said, I will say this station

467
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: allows her to work her way like that she is

468
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 2: not like locked out of moving back up, and she

469
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 2: works her way back up to reporting the news over

470
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 2: the next couple of years in Baltimore, and in fact,

471
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 2: she rebuilds her reputation with her bosses well enough that

472
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven, the new station manager, William Baker, gives

473
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 2: her the big break that is going to lead her

474
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: to the position of kind of impossible wealth and cultural

475
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,719
Speaker 2: power that she's going to attain. He had been brought

476
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 2: on to the station after creating in another station a

477
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 2: morning talk show called Morning Exchange, and his job was

478
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 2: to do the same thing for Baltimore. Right, morning shows

479
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: are a new concept, like this is this is the

480
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: guy playing a video game while ranting about politics on

481
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: a stream of nineteen seventy seven is like people waking

482
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: up in the morning to see one to two charming,

483
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: handsome people talk about bullshit while you like, get the

484
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: kid's breakfasts ready.

485
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: Right.

486
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: The hottest new thing in entertainment. Phil Donahue had kind

487
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: of helped to kick off the trend of like talk

488
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 2: shows in nineteen sixty eight, and his show, which was

489
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: just named Donahue, had become like the most popular thing

490
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 2: on television. Morning shows were a refinement of this idea. Right,

491
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: you generally have a male host and a female co host,

492
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: and this is how you lock in viewers who are

493
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 2: either getting ready for work or like stay at home

494
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: moms starting their day. Baker's wife, Jean Marie, was the

495
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 2: one who recommended Oprah to be the female co host

496
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: of this new morning show. Apparently at some sort of

497
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 2: like work event, she sees Winfrey and she like says

498
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: to her husband, that's your host. And Baker listens to

499
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 2: his wife, which proves to be a wise decision because

500
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: for whatever I mean, there's a number of reasons, but

501
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: tens of millions of American women feel the exact same

502
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 2: way that the first time they see Oprah, like, oh yeah,

503
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: this is somebody I want to watch every morning. Right,

504
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 2: So Jean Marie was definitely keyed into something there. Oprah

505
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: does not like that she's been picked for this job.

506
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: She's horrified at first, actually, because in her attitude, she

507
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: sees this as another demotion. Right, she had been a

508
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: co anchor and then kicked down to doing these like

509
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 2: human interest kind of like, oh, you know there's a

510
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 2: new you know, it's the kind of stuff they make

511
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 2: fun of an anchorman, right, there's like a new puppy

512
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: parade or some bullshit, and she's like that, that's this,

513
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: This is like fluff. I want to be doing like

514
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 2: I think that the I want to be Barbara Walters.

515
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 2: I want to be doing something more hard nosed. Part

516
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 2: of what discussed her is that a big fit thing

517
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 2: on this morning show is dialing for dollars, which is

518
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: a way that new stations would keep people watching because

519
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: you don't want anyone to switch to another channel if

520
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 2: they get bored for a second. So you have this

521
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: thing where periodically throughout the day people submit their phone

522
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: numbers to the station and we randomly Oprah draws one

523
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: out of a bowl and the station will just send

524
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: money to that person. Yeah, that's how they and you

525
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: have to be watching constantly to know if your number

526
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: gets picked. Like that's literally how they They're like bribing people,

527
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 2: please keep watching the show.

528
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 6: I mean, gambling has never not been the underlying driver

529
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 6: of everything.

530
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 2: All of American society. Yes, yes, this whole country's one

531
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 2: big roulette wheel. And Oprah didn't want to be the creupier.

532
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 2: It's a croupier for Roulette, is that how you say it?

533
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 8: It is about to get another people being like, actually,

534
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 8: you said it wrong, Robert.

535
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: It's this.

536
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. All of the people who would correct me

537
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: on that will die if they spend more than eleven

538
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 2: seconds away from a slot machine. Those are life support

539
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: systems for a chunk of the populace.

540
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 4: I think Roulette is also a croupier, but I don't know.

541
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: I think I got it, I don't know. I don't care.

542
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: I like the word creupia, speaking of gambling, gamble on

543
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: whether or not these products actually do what they say

544
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: they are they do probably, And we're back. So Oprah's

545
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 2: got this job offer to host this morning show, and

546
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: she's like, this sounds like death right, This sounds like

547
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: the end of my career. Like you're trying to fob

548
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: me off on this thing, and I will be locked

549
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: into this, you know, doing something nobody respects for the

550
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: rest of my life. The thing that she tells Baker

551
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: is I'm a news person. I don't want to do

552
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: a talk show. Then she films her first episode and

553
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: her mind completely changed. The way she describes this is

554
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: as soon as she sits down and makes an episode

555
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: of the Morning Show. Her opinion on it changes on

556
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: a dime. And the reason why is because she gets

557
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 2: to hang out with famous people and she's like, oh

558
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 2: wait oh, and I'm going to read a quote now

559
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: from the People Profiles biography of Oprah. This she told

560
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: herself is heaven. She recalled, I interviewed Benny from All

561
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: My Children and the Carvel ice cream Man, and thought,

562
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: heaven because you get to say whatever you feel. You

563
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: truly get to be yourself. Within a year, people are talking,

564
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: which is the Morning Show was beating Donahue in Baltimore,

565
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: the only show in America to do so. Winfrey would

566
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: never read another headline. The minute that first show was over,

567
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: she told good Housekeeping, I thought, thank god, I found

568
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: what I was meant to do. It was like breathing

569
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: for me. And that's like very interesting to me because

570
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: it's hard to get across like Donahue is. He's like

571
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: the mister Beast of his era, if you'll forgive me

572
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: from trying to like make he is like the biggest

573
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: guy on on daytime TV, and Oprah is the like,

574
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 2: this is the only local show that beats Donahue anywhere

575
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: in the United States, and it's due to the fact

576
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: that Oprah is on it right and she has this

577
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: absolutely unique electric connection with her audience. This is recognized

578
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: by people with money and television, and things start to

579
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: move very fast for Oprah after this point, as Pel

580
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 2: scholar Amanda Colin writes in her thesis paper on it

581
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: was role in American culture. In nineteen eighty four, Oprah

582
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: moved to Chicago, Illinois to host wlstv's morning talk show

583
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: Am Chicago, which became the number one local talk show,

584
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: surpassing ratings for the most popular show at the time,

585
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: Donahue just one month after she began. The show where

586
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: national syndication in nineteen eighty six, becoming the highest rated

587
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: talk show in television history. In nineteen eighty eight, Oprah

588
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: established Harpo Oprah Backwards Studios, a production facility in Chicago,

589
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: making her the third woman in the American entertainment industry

590
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: after Mary Pickford and Lucille Ball, to own her own studio.

591
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: AM Chicago became the Oprah Winfrey Show and remained the

592
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: number one talk show for twenty consecutive seasons. So this

593
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: is like a very rapid explosion in popularity. She goes

594
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: from getting the show to it becoming number one, to

595
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 2: it being entirely reframed to being just around Oprah. And

596
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: she establishes a production company and gets like a significant

597
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: degree of ownership in her own show, which is like,

598
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: this is one of the things that's most interesting about

599
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: Oprah is, especially for somebody who was raised without any

600
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: access to money, the sheer degree of like business savvy

601
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 2: that she has the fact that she owns a large

602
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: piece of everything she's involved in and eventually owns all

603
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: of it, right, Like she is not like she she

604
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: kind of has this, probably because of how she got

605
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: fucked over with that first job. This understanding that like,

606
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: if I don't own it, it's not worth shit to me,

607
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: right anyway, Oprah.

608
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 9: So I just.

609
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 8: Realize something crazy, which is that Oprah, the character that

610
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 8: Oprah plays in The Color Purple, she's married to a

611
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 8: character named Harpo.

612
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 3: Really, It's like, isn't that crazy?

613
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 2: Because I started rewatching it, but I'm gonna be honest,

614
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 2: I didn't finish it, uh because I was tired. Harpo

615
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: is name.

616
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 8: She's married to a character named Harpo in the movie.

617
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 8: That's why I doesn't realize that that. It's also the

618
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 8: name of her, it's also her name backward.

619
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh huh Yeavy. That's I wonder that has to

620
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: do a beit because she already had harpo the studio.

621
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: At that point, we're gonna talk a little bit about

622
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: the color purple, and Steven Spielberg comes in. I don't

623
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: know if he's a hero. Well, he's not a hero.

624
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: He's a weird kind of villain in this story. But

625
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: we'll get to that. And that's that. I can't wait

626
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: so for about a full generation after nineteen eighty four.

627
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 2: Oprah's fame is a rocket ship. It just keeps going

628
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: up and up and up. But what made her show

629
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: so special. Colan's argument is that she offered quote, despair

630
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: disguised as entertainment. In other words, she sensationalized and repackaged

631
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: human suffering for an audience. Quote. When Oprah came on

632
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 2: the scene, she mirrored this Donahue formula, but with a

633
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: unique twist of her own. She, unlike Donahue, revealed her

634
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: own personal struggles and stressed to self help mantra. The

635
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: audience loved it, and the Oprah Winfrey Show quickly surpassed

636
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: her predecessor's ratings. Commonly referred to as trash TV. Oprah

637
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: transformed the talk show genre by turning trash into treasure.

638
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: And that's kind of she starts out and she is

639
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: viewed as like trash. She's viewed as Jerry Springer right

640
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: for a while, because she's doing that stuff. She's bringing

641
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: on like I'm going to bring on a bunch of

642
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: single undred mothers who are fighting with their dads. I'm

643
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: gonna bring on like some clansmen to have an argument with,

644
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 2: like you know whoever on stage and like hope that

645
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: there's a fistfighter some shit. She's doing pieces of that,

646
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: But kind of what shifts the meaning of what she's

647
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: doing is that, unlike a Springer or a Donna Hue

648
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: kind of character, she's not standing back and being like,

649
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: look at this zoo I've brought to you. She's like

650
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: opening up her own difficult, troubled past, which kind of

651
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: adds this this like shot of vulnerability into the whole

652
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: mixture that makes it unique and that you can see

653
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: it immediate. That's why it stands out right, That's why

654
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 2: she rises above these other figures so quickly, right.

655
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 6: The most Spring and Donaghue, you never got the impression.

656
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 6: Their point of view was like, look at this shit,

657
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 6: look at.

658
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: This crazy shit.

659
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like I have an opinion on this crazy shit.

660
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: I have an opinion. And also like like you people,

661
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: like all you troubled people that I bring on the show,

662
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: I also have had my troubles and I'm not too

663
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 2: big to admit them, whereas like Cherry Springer would never

664
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: like break down and cry in front of his audience.

665
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 8: Even's final thought, Oh god, yeah, I'm sure of course.

666
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: The one thing I remember from that show is when

667
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 2: Haroldo got his nose broken by a chair. I think

668
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: that was on Jerry. Was that on Heraldo or Jerry?

669
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: I thought it was.

670
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: I think it was that might have been Heraldo.

671
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: Is that just on Herald? Whatever the is? Rivera got

672
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 2: his nose broken by a chair. Everybody never forget.

673
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 8: But I think your point about like this setting Oprah apart,

674
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 8: I think it really is a testament to how her

675
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 8: troubled background really is something that she draws from and

676
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 8: is able to like like that's I think that is

677
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 8: the secret sauce of what made this connect in a

678
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 8: different way.

679
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's like we're taught it's the same kind

680
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: of like quote unquote trash, but there's less of a

681
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: voyeuristic attitude because, like anytime it starts to lean too much,

682
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: Oprah will drop some sort of anecdote about her own

683
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: background and you're like, oh, okay, so she's really she's

684
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: on the same level as us, right, which she's not,

685
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: but that's how it feels to the viewer at least.

686
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: The most significant moment for her career in this period

687
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: came right after she moved to Chicago to start The

688
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey Show. On Thursday, December fifth, nineteen eighty five,

689
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 2: at nine AM, Oprah started her morning show by bringing

690
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: on a young white abuse victim named LORII. She opened

691
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: up by reading some statistics about sexual abuse, namely that

692
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: one in three women in the United States had experienced it,

693
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 2: and then asked, Laurie, your father started out fondling you.

694
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: When did it lead to something other than fondling? She

695
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: pressed with more and more detailed questions, asking what did

696
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: he say to you, how did he tell you? What

697
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: did he tell you? And this is all very uncomfortable

698
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: to see on TV right, and even especially like reading

699
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 2: the transcript, it's there's an element of it that seems

700
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: a little bit exploitive, kind of constantly pushing for those

701
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 2: details in front of an audience that said it. Also,

702
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 2: this is kind of how interviews work. It's just usually

703
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: when journalists interview people about these kind of experiences, you

704
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 2: don't get the direct interview transcript. You get an article

705
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,479
Speaker 2: where they've kind of taken out the details but also

706
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: kind of softened aspects of it so that it doesn't

707
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: feel that uncomfortable. Oprah's kind of giving you the raw feed,

708
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 2: and seeing something like this, which is normally a private

709
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 2: process rendered as public entertainment, is kind of a new thing.

710
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: And particularly what's new about it is that because of

711
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: the way Oprah does this, rather than people feeling like, oh,

712
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 2: she's kind of exploding this woman, people from the audience

713
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: start to join in spontaneously sharing their own stories of

714
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 2: sexual abuse as children. People in the audience start breaking

715
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: down into tears, and then Oprah starts talking about her

716
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: own sexual abuse, telling everyone the fact that I had

717
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: all these unfortunate experiences permeates my life and I'm gonna

718
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: quote from Kitty Kelly's book here. For the next few seconds,

719
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: Oprah appeared to be discovering for the first time that

720
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: what she had experienced as a nine year old child

721
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: was indeed rape, a defilement so unspeakable that she had

722
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 2: never been able to put it into words until that

723
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: very moment. Her audience felt as if they were watching

724
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 2: the fissures of a soul split open as she admitted

725
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: shameful secret. And nothing like this had ever happened on

726
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: daytime TV. There had certainly been like people talking about

727
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: sexual abuse, but the fact that an episode interviewing a

728
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: survivor would lead to both members of the audience breaking

729
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: down and sharing their own stories and then the host

730
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: doing it, that's a totally novel thing, right, Like that

731
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: has never happened before on television, and it creates a firestorm.

732
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: The fact that Oprah does this on air becomes national

733
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: and then international news, and it is people like the

734
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: people running the station are not happy, Like the actual

735
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: executive is the station are like this is supposed to

736
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: be a happy morning show. This is this is like

737
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: this is like for people to like watch what they're drinking?

738
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: What the what the hell is going on here?

739
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 4: Right?

740
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 5: Like?

741
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 2: Why why are we having stories of child sexual abuse?

742
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: But the ratings are off the charts. It's one of

743
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 2: those things where she both gets in trouble with the

744
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: people running the station and also this makes her too

745
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: big to fail, Like this is this, this is It's

746
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: impossible to overstate what a massive moment this is for

747
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 2: both television as a medium and also for Oprah's career.

748
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 4: Yeah it's I mean, it's there's also just that yeah,

749
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 4: like what a I guessed risk or like thank god,

750
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 4: it's a.

751
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: Huge risk because like if the ratings had like her her,

752
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: the people running the station are not happy if the

753
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: ratings had not been there, like she could have gotten

754
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: fired for this. And it's also there's it's such a

755
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: complicated thing to parse out because one thing she's doing

756
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: is this is one of the very first times and

757
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 2: a public space with this much exposure, that you have

758
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: victims of rape talking about it, not in a way

759
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: that's mediated by psychiatrists or law enforcement or anything like that,

760
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: but is just like survivors talking about it.

761
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 9: Right.

762
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 2: And at the same time, Oprah very sees the reaction

763
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: to this, sees how well it does, and her immediate

764
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: takeaway is like sex cells, we need all of the

765
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: sex episodes, every kind of sex, not just like this

766
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 2: where people are talking about you know their trauma, but like,

767
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: whatever we can get that involves sex, that's what's going

768
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: to make this show keep it on top, right, So, like,

769
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 2: after this episode she starts Invite. She invites a bunch

770
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 2: of female porn stars on to talk about the penises

771
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: of her post stars of their co stars. That episode

772
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: gets a thirty percent share of the Chicago audience and

773
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: provokes even more news articles about Oprah because people are

774
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: now like, is this smut? Like how do we talk

775
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: about what she's doing? Nobody's done anything like this before,

776
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 2: and a lot of the coverage is super critical, super

777
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: like this is incredibly irresponsible. People shouldn't be doing this.

778
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: But it all just drives viewers right more. And the

779
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: more stuff that she puts out there that gets people

780
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: shocked and like angry or you know, titillated, the more

781
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: people watch her show. When reporters interviewer about this, Oprah

782
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: tells them, my mandate is to win, admitting that her

783
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: overriding purpose and bringing victims of sexual violence and sex

784
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: workers onto her show is to draw eyeballs. Kitty Kelly

785
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: quotes her former producer, Deborah de Meo, paraphrasing the way

786
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: Oprah pitched show ideas to her team. I'd love to

787
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: get a priest to talk about sex. I'd love to

788
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: get one to say, yes, I have a lover. I

789
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: worship Jesus and her Yes, I love her, and her

790
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: name is Carolyn.

791
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 8: I love how Like that's a life like pretty twisted

792
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 8: over was like I want the like free, I want

793
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 8: some freaky d in here.

794
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: Find me a priest who's fucking some lady named Carolyn

795
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: and get her on, get him on. Oh man. So yeah,

796
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 2: that's like I don't even you can, I guess moralize

797
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: that however you want. It's so fascinating that it goes

798
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: from I have like shared my own horrible experience and

799
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: people connected with that, to like, so we got to

800
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 2: get some priest who's fucking a lady on this show

801
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 2: right where that's where this guy has to continue going.

802
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 4: You know. It is also weird to conclu not weird,

803
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 4: but like I mean, I guess like more media savvy

804
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 4: than I am to conclude from that first show that

805
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 4: sex cells rather than like vulnerability cells or authenticity cells

806
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 4: or whatever.

807
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: But also all of them sell because her vulnerability and

808
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: authenticity keeps her piet. It's a huge part of her

809
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: ongoing popularity. But so is the sex, So is the

810
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 2: really sleazy stuff. They never stop doing that, right, I

811
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: guess the answer is all of it. And Oprah has

812
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 2: very good instincts, you know, wherever we want to land

813
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 2: morally on what she's doing here. This shit works now.

814
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 2: It is worth noting that she is depicted in the media.

815
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: This is very hard for like, I had trouble grasping

816
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 2: this because by the time I was aware of Oprah,

817
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: she had such a different like reputation in the eighties.

818
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 2: She in late seventies and eighties, She's Jerry Springer right.

819
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: She is not a respectable media figure to a lot

820
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: of people. That is not how she's talked about to

821
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 2: a lot of people around this time. An article in

822
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 2: McCall's magazine on the Oprah Winfrey Show described what it

823
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 2: did it best as quote get him in the gut

824
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 2: show topics, sexual disorders, battered wise, self mutilation, overweight people

825
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: and the people who hate them, you know, all that

826
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Oprah often would say, nothing is taboo,

827
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: and she meant it. Whinfrey's own struggles with weight loss

828
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: and gain quickly became a central part of the show,

829
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: as well, we open this series with the infamous wagon

830
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: of fat incident from nineteen eighty or ninety eight. That

831
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 2: was gross and bad, but it's also worth noting if

832
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: you want to put that into the context, like how

833
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 2: we could get to something that gross. It comes after

834
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: a decade of constant public obsession with every pound Oprah

835
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: lost or gained. And this is where we're gonna talk

836
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 2: about the color purple again. So as I've noted, Oprah

837
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 2: struggles with you know, binge eating, with her body self

838
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 2: image from adolescence on like a lot of us, like

839
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: maybe everybody, she has a habit of stress eating and

840
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: was noted by co workers to binge to really uncomfortable

841
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 2: levels during parties and the like. When she becomes this

842
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 2: TV star in the mid eighties, people start talking about this,

843
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: like it becomes both in gossip columns and shit like

844
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: the fucking you know, National Inquirer and stuff. There's like

845
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: articles about, you know, stories of Oprah and eating and whatnot.

846
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 2: And she kind of pivots on this to become radically

847
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: open to her audience about her dieting and her struggles

848
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: with weight gain. Now this helps drive her popularity, but

849
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 2: it's also it both is in part a reaction to

850
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 2: and also helps lead to ship like this nineteen eighty

851
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: five appearance on the Tonight Show with Joan Rivers, which

852
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play for you now. This is one of

853
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: the most uncomfortable things I've seen on television.

854
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Joan was such a bit. I can't

855
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 3: wait to see. This is so bad. I mean, I

856
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: like Loki, love her, but like, let's be real.

857
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, this is this is not great. As

858
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 2: you went into beauty contest, they tell me your beauty

859
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 2: contest win us.

860
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm those fifty pounds ago or so, yeah, but.

861
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 2: So what'd you win?

862
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 4: Well?

863
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: I wont them as fire prevention contest?

864
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: Was that a who?

865
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: What fire prevention to?

866
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 3: Has you gained the weight?

867
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: I ate a lot because.

868
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, no.

869
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: No, you said fifty pounds.

870
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: You shouldn't let that.

871
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 9: Happen to you, very Jody.

872
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 8: You know what, No, I don't want to hear let

873
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 8: me tell you that, pretty girl, are you single?

874
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: You must lose the weight.

875
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to you know what we are now am Chicago.

876
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 1: In Chicago, we're starting a diet with Oprah Grace. Yes,

877
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: in conjunction with a tribute so that I have been

878
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: put under pressure to finally do it.

879
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 10: I am trying to lose five pounds.

880
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 1: Will you know how to laugh with me in March

881
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: when I'm back and you lose fifteen, I'll lose five.

882
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: But well, listen, that's you. I'll do I'll keep these

883
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: and I'm not.

884
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 4: I'm fer I'll do it.

885
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 3: If you do it, you will.

886
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a deal.

887
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 3: It's a deal. It's a deal.

888
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 10: Five pounding it.

889
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: Grace.

890
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: Yes, that's great, that's great, that's great.

891
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm excited about it though, because I've gone up and

892
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: down and up, and I've been on every diet. If

893
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: you tried the banana, weeni and egg diet, you might

894
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: know a banana weening and egg? Where eat a banana,

895
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: a weeni and egg? And I've done the pickles and

896
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: peanut butter diet. I just eat cookies.

897
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 9: But I only eat like eight hundred callies with the cookies.

898
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 9: I forget you do it that way?

899
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I saw nel Carter on her last night

900
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: who'd lost Yes, but you couldn't tell. She's still very chubby.

901
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: She just lose more. You lose more, well, I think

902
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: wall people go oh I'm not people and help friends

903
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: that die truth to say, you are still a pig?

904
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: Okay, well, why you are eating disorders so rampant? Is

905
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: it because these are our parents? Effectively?

906
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 8: Oh I gotta say though, like that was not as

907
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 8: this is.

908
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 3: That was not as bad as I thought it was

909
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 3: going to be.

910
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 8: It's people talk to bigger people, Like people feel totally

911
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 8: comfortable saying shit like this two people's faces and they

912
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 8: don't even think twice about it.

913
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 3: It says like totally how people talk.

914
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 2: Part of what you're seeing there is like Oprah being

915
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 2: a professional, because when she describes this moment, she's like, yeah,

916
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 2: like I was not happy, like this was that, Like

917
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: the the laughing and stuff was all faked. I was

918
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 2: very unhappy that we were having this conversation, right like

919
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: obviously yeah, no, It's like I can't believe the kind

920
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: of shit that you'd saying there. It was made like

921
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: this whole situation was made worse at the time because like,

922
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: not long after this, while she is like doing this

923
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 2: very famous publicized diet, it gets announced on the Joan

924
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 2: Rivers Show. Like the first big thing she does after

925
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 2: this is she sent to Ethiopia to report on Chicago's

926
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: efforts to help the famine. So the story is simultaneously

927
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 2: Oprah trying to lose thirty pounds and Oprah reporting on

928
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: a famine and the Ethiopia not great vibes. One of

929
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 2: her colleagues asks like, hey, is this kind of gross?

930
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 2: And Oprah applies, You're right, it's sick, isn't it?

931
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: It is sick.

932
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: It is kind of sick.

933
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 4: Now.

934
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: One fair critique of these episodes is that we're not

935
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: going to go into super clinical detail about all of

936
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: the different fad diets and dangerous weight loss missinformation that

937
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: comes out of the Oprah Winfrey Show. Part of why

938
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: is because the podcast maintenance Face has done a ton

939
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 2: of that, so you can check all of that out.

940
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: I think part of it is just that, like you

941
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: get the idea here, right, It's both important to note that,

942
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: like Oprah like that that clip there, there's a lot

943
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 2: of pushing on everyone listening to that. Feel bad about

944
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 2: your body, be ashamed if you've gained weight, embrace dangerous

945
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: strategies to lose it. Oprah has a lot, and Oprah

946
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: will admit it today, a lot of guilt and spreading that.

947
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: But also she is in such a unique position where like,

948
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's ever been a single person

949
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: that so many Americans have been so obsessed with their

950
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: body size. Like it's kind of hard not to not

951
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: for that to affect you in a bad way. Like

952
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: we really were insane about Oprah. Yeah, I don't know

953
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: what else to say about that. I will say in

954
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: order to kind of point out the way in which

955
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 2: people talked about her. One of the most prominent TV

956
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: critics of the day, Richard Blackwell, described Oprah as bumpy, frumpy,

957
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: and downright lumpy on the cover of TV Guide. Jesus So,

958
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 2: right around the time this is all happening, Oprah is

959
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: on the Tonight Show. Like right around when she's on

960
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: the Tonight Show, she is auditioning for a role in

961
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 2: the color Purple. After the episode, where again this is

962
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 2: not as friendly a situation as it appears on the air,

963
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: she's very unhappy about this. She's stress each she gave

964
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: more weight, and then she checks herself into a fat farm,

965
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: an emergency weight loss boot camp type program to lose

966
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,720
Speaker 2: the weight. Steven Spielberg, who had directed the movie, finds

967
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: out and he calls Oprah and Spielberg says, I hear

968
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: you're at a fat farm, you lose a pound, you

969
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 2: could lose this part, she's like, she's fucked no matter what.

970
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 8: I don't love anybody like micromanaging somebody else's weight.

971
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 2: But yeah.

972
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 8: The color Purple is based on a novel by Alice

973
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 8: Walker and the character she was portraying, like, I like,

974
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 8: I get it's not something I think he should have said,

975
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 8: but I get where he's coming from.

976
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 2: It's it's yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I

977
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: don't know where I should. Yeah, yeah, it's uncomfortable.

978
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 11: Does Oprah talk about like like not not like to well, yeah,

979
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 11: I mean, I guess what I'm about to say is

980
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 11: gonna sound victim. But I'm just caring because part of

981
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 11: the like this like like attention to her weight. She

982
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 11: even if it was like going to happen anyway, she

983
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 11: did profit from like it was like part of the

984
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 11: like editorial strategy of her show, right, Like, does she

985
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 11: talk about leaning in on that?

986
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: She She hugely leans in right like she does? She does.

987
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: She in part she makes the specifics of like how

988
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 2: much she's gaining or how much she is losing and

989
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 2: what diet she is doing. Part of the show. A

990
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 2: lot of the money that comes in as a result

991
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: of diet advice. She has deals and gets millions and

992
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: millions from groups like weight Watchers, right pushing a lot

993
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: of different diets she gets paid and also just like

994
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 2: fills airtime and makes money that way. Putting on different

995
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 2: diet experts and diet books and a lot of that

996
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: stuff is extremely dangerous. It is both she is being

997
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 2: victimized by the whole media environment and also profiting on

998
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 2: that by pushing the same kind of poison on everyone else.

999
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 2: Right like that That's what's happening here, right like it

1000
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: is a story of both victimization and profiting off of

1001
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: putting some pretty toxic and oprah. You know, the thing

1002
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 2: she's doing right now is at least copying to some

1003
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 2: of that right now, copying to some of that while

1004
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 2: also getting money from weight Watchers. So, I don't know,

1005
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 2: I don't know where we want to put that out.

1006
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 6: The one thing I am curious about is when we

1007
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 6: as a culture made the transition from saying weenies to

1008
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 6: hot dogs.

1009
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 2: A hot dog based diet today which you should never

1010
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,240
Speaker 2: have had a hot dog based diet.

1011
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess I guess not.

1012
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 2: You would know. Yeah. Anyway, so she gives up after

1013
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 2: or at least the way that Oprah tells the story.

1014
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: After Spielberg's like, if you lose a pound, you could

1015
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 2: lose this part, Oprah does like fuck it and gives

1016
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 2: up on getting the role and keeps the role, and yeah,

1017
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 2: she winds up doing very well. She gets like massively,

1018
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: you know. Like one of the interesting things about Oprah

1019
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: is she could have had just a whole career as

1020
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 2: a major Hollywood star. Like she just decides to keep

1021
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 2: being Oprah Winfrey because that turns out to be much

1022
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 2: better for her than being like a movie star. But

1023
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,479
Speaker 2: she's very like has a very successful acting career starting out.

1024
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 8: Oh, I mean Color Purple is like it is a classic.

1025
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 8: It's probably the movie I have seen the most times

1026
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 8: in my life. Like it is like a like the

1027
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 8: way that she was in that movie, it was a revelation,

1028
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 8: like even thinking about it now, as good as like

1029
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 8: Whoopi Goldberg is in that movie and Danny Glover is

1030
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 8: in that movie. Danny is the standout character. Even so,

1031
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 8: probably her big scene in the Color Purple is when

1032
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 8: she gives the speech to Seeley all my life. I

1033
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 8: had to fight. If you've heard that Kendrick Lamar song,

1034
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 8: all right, that's the beginning of that song comes from.

1035
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 8: Is Oprah's big scene in that movie? Like that movie,

1036
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 8: the way it shifted the culture we like really cannot

1037
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 8: be overstated.

1038
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it's so fascinating to me that like

1039
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: that would be for most people, like, oh shit, I've

1040
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: made it. I've like been in this highly praised Hollywood.

1041
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 2: You know, that's the rest of my life. Is I'm

1042
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 2: going to be in movies. Oprah's like, no, no, I

1043
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: know a better way to get really famous. So while

1044
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 2: this is going on, her movie career is starting, Oprah

1045
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: is continuing to you know, be trash TV. Right, that's

1046
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,879
Speaker 2: really this era. And sex is not the only thing

1047
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 2: that she finds out that sells racism gets people to

1048
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 2: tune in. So during Black History Month in the eighties,

1049
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: Oprah started booking KKK members to show up wearing sheets

1050
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: and hoods. Intermittently, she would book guests with something important

1051
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 2: to say too, like when she did the Women with

1052
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: Sexual Disorders episode and talk to a woman who had

1053
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 2: never orgasmed. Oprah brought in a sex surrogate to coach

1054
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 2: her on air, which elicit a flood of complaints, as

1055
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 2: Kitty Kelly documents, yesterday's show was gross, said one woman.

1056
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 2: I don't know how else to describe it, absolutely degrading.

1057
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 2: There are millions of women who never experienced sexual pleasures,

1058
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 2: said Oprah. We had six hundred and sixty and thirty

1059
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 2: three calls for women yesterday after the show on the computer.

1060
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 2: We made lots of women feel there, not alone. And

1061
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: this is what makes especially in this era, it's always

1062
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: back and forth, right, because there's this mix of like, oh,

1063
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: that's some of the grossest TV I've heard about, and like, oh,

1064
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: you're really pushing out some very unhealthy attitudes towards dieting

1065
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 2: into society. And also it's incredibly important for people to

1066
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: know about stuff like sexual dysfunction and that there's like

1067
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 2: coaching for that, and to not feel ashamed, like this

1068
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 2: is a thing that we can talk about in public.

1069
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 2: And Oprah's always so much of both of those things.

1070
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 2: That said, when for every episode like this, you'd get

1071
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: where it's like, yeah, I'm glad someone in the fucking

1072
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 2: eighties was talking about like sexual dysfunction and the fact

1073
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 2: that there are treatments available that you can and should

1074
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 2: seek you. So right from that to Oprah being like, also,

1075
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 2: the devil is coming for your children, and this is

1076
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 2: going to get us onto one of my favorite subjects,

1077
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 2: how Oprah Winfrey helped start the Satanic Panic? But first, ah, yes,

1078
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 2: but first you know who else is the devil? But

1079
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 2: like the sexy devil, Like the devil when he's played

1080
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: by that guy who also played the President in the

1081
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 2: Command and conquer Red Alert too. You know that guy.

1082
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 4: I'm just nodding. I'm just nodding.

1083
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 2: Everyone's just nodding. Nobody else remembers that guy. He played

1084
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:40,760
Speaker 2: the devil once. Look him up. We're back. Four people

1085
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 2: are so happy I just made that reference. Everyone else

1086
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 2: has stopped listening forever. So Satanic Panic. In nineteen eighty nine,

1087
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 2: a Canadian psychiatrist and con man named Lawrence Pasder wrote

1088
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 2: a book about his patient, who he later married, Michelle Smith,

1089
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 2: claiming he recovered her memories of participating and elaborate impossible

1090
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: Satanic rituals while being abused for the devil's gain. This book,

1091
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: Michelle remembers, helped launch the Satanic Panic, a religious moral

1092
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 2: panic that ruined hundreds of lives and laid much of

1093
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 2: the groundwork for QAnon to take off today. We maybe

1094
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: don't get the Trump presidency without the Satanic panic. That

1095
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: was some necessary groundwork, right, You got to put in

1096
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 2: those load bearing pillars, and this is where that's coming from.

1097
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: And Oprah helps get it off the ground. She brings

1098
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 2: Laurence and Michelle onto her show, along with several other

1099
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 2: prominent If you are a Satanic panic con person, right

1100
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: who is like I worship the Devil, I sacrificed babies,

1101
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: Oprah will let you say whatever to At this point,

1102
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: literally tens of millions of people are tuning into her show.

1103
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 2: I want to start with a clip of a nineteen

1104
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: eighty six episode which wasn't about the Satanic Panic, but

1105
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: contained a sting for their upcoming episode on devil worshipers.

1106
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 2: And I want to it's just because you know, we talk.

1107
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 2: I throw to ads in a lot of you know,

1108
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 2: different ways here, but I got a bow to the

1109
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 2: master class here.

1110
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: All right, we'll come back and we're going to talk

1111
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: about sex some more.

1112
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 3: Back in a moment, the Devil.

1113
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 2: The screen after she says that is just a picture

1114
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 2: of the devil on a TV screen holding his own tail,

1115
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 2: with the Thursday Victims of Satanic worship. I love that

1116
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 2: iconic coming next to the devil.

1117
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

1118
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 2: Also, we're gonna talk about sex and more. We should

1119
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 2: have thrown to ads now, Sophie, Sorry, that would have

1120
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 2: been the way.

1121
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 5: To do it.

1122
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 3: Uh, next time, Bud, you got to.

1123
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 2: Learn from the masters here. Now I'm gonna play or

1124
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have Sophie play another clip. I think from

1125
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 2: closer to nineteen eighty nine or nineteen ninety. Most of

1126
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 2: Oprah's early shows are not preserved in a convenient way,

1127
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,439
Speaker 2: So I did my best here.

1128
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 10: Our next guest was used also in word shipping. The

1129
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 10: devil participated in human sacrifice, rituals, rituals, and cannibalism. She

1130
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,959
Speaker 10: says her family has been involved in rituals for generations.

1131
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 10: She's currently an extensive therapy suffers from multiple personality disorder,

1132
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 10: meaning she's blocked out many of the terrifying and painful

1133
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 10: memories of her childhood. Rachel, who is also in disguise

1134
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 10: to protect her identity, you come from generations of ritualistic abuse.

1135
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 9: Yes, my family is an extensive family tree, and they

1136
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 9: keep track of who's don In thousand and.

1137
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: She's in disguise, good really yes, yeah, okay, okay, what's

1138
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 2: the disguise?

1139
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 5: What's disgus like?

1140
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:41,919
Speaker 2: Is this there?

1141
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 3: Isses?

1142
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 2: Okay? Okay, yeah, the clark can her?

1143
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, she put on.

1144
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 2: When she takes those glasses off, her family's not going

1145
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 2: to recognize the devil can't catch.

1146
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 5: Her, sorry, presuming just was very.

1147
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: Thrown off by them. That is funny, Okay.

1148
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 3: In disguise, it's impossible to tell on her.

1149
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 2: And I don't say this to shame her. I'm shaming

1150
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: the nineties. You can't tell a bad wig from normal hair.

1151
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 4: In like nineteen you know you can't.

1152
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: There's no way to do it.

1153
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 3: But that brooch is long, that brooches something.

1154
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 9: Yes, thousand who hasn't been involved and it's gone back

1155
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:28,919
Speaker 9: who by seventeen hundred and so you were right. I

1156
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 9: was going into a family that believes in this.

1157
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 10: And this is it. This is Does everyone else think

1158
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 10: it's a nice Jewish family from the outside? You appear

1159
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 10: to be a nice Jewish girl, definitely, and you all

1160
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 10: are worshiping the devil inside the home?

1161
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 9: Right, there's other Jewish families across the country not just know.

1162
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 4: Really, so.

1163
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 2: I don't think I have to tell you why this

1164
00:58:55,720 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 2: is dangerous. That's a real bad thing to have twenty

1165
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: million people watching, like not great, Well, the Jews are

1166
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: secretly worshiping the devil.

1167
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 6: Gee.

1168
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 8: They might appear as like wholesome, normal family, but the

1169
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 8: hind closed doors.

1170
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, Oprah is literally just doing the blood libel

1171
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 2: on data TV, on the most popular talk show in

1172
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 2: the country. And we're going to continue here because it

1173
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 2: just gets I am shocked that this was allowed.

1174
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 10: What kind of things went on in the family.

1175
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 9: Well, there would be rituals in which babies would be sacrificed,

1176
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 9: and you would have to you.

1177
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 10: Know babies, So are people who bread.

1178
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 9: Babies in our family, no one would know about it.

1179
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 9: A lot of people were overweight, so you couldn't tell

1180
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 9: if they were pregnant or not.

1181
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 4: Or they would.

1182
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 9: Supposedly go away for a while and then come back.

1183
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 9: The other thing I want to point out, not all

1184
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 9: Jewish the sacrifice babies.

1185
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 10: I mean, it's not kind. I heard of any Jewish

1186
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 10: people sacrifice some babies.

1187
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 4: But anyway, so you.

1188
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 9: Witnessed the sacrifice right when I was very young, I

1189
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 9: was forced to participate in that in which I had

1190
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 9: a sacrifice an infant, and.

1191
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 10: The purpose of sacrifices to what is to bring you what?

1192
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 9: What are you sacrificing for?

1193
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 4: For power?

1194
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a lot of questions. First off, do

1195
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 2: we think it makes it better for Oprah to offhandy

1196
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 2: to be like I've never heard of Jewish people sacrificeing

1197
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 2: babies before anyway, tell me about these Jewish baby sacrifices.

1198
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:48,439
Speaker 2: Oh god, I mean this does get closer to her

1199
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 2: future crimes.

1200
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 4: Of like like clearly if even even if you want.

1201
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 6: To remove like the any sort of like willful malice

1202
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 6: from Oprah, like a pretty shameful credulity is on display here, yes, Like.

1203
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like Mike, as a middling journalist, my first question

1204
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: would be, are you not worried you're gonna get arrested

1205
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 2: because you just admitted to murdering a baby on television?

1206
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1207
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 2: You know that's a crime, right, But there's no statut

1208
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 2: limitations on killing a baby.

1209
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 3: So I have a question.

1210
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 8: Like, like what is the production of this, like behind

1211
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 8: the scenes, Like where do they find this?

1212
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 3: Lady? Did they are just like, oh, you've got.

1213
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 8: A story about killing babies and sacrifice, come on on

1214
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 8: the air or tell us about it?

1215
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 2: You know, you get pieces of this. Nobody will directly

1216
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 2: say like we just we're full of shit, right, we

1217
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 2: just lied, you know, but but you can tell that

1218
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:47,919
Speaker 2: what's happening. You get this, Like that previous clip rope

1219
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 2: was like I want a priest too, did this and

1220
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 2: this and this right, because it'll it'll sell an episode.

1221
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: She's like, I want someone talking about sacrificing babies. And

1222
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 2: you know what is exists in the world, and you

1223
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 2: don't have to coach people on this. If you let

1224
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 2: enough people know, you can get on TV in front

1225
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 2: of twenty million people, if you talk about sacrificing a baby,

1226
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 2: there will be someone whose desperation for attention is so

1227
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 2: high that they will come on television and claim to

1228
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,439
Speaker 2: have sacrificed a baby. That's the way people are.

1229
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 8: That's the person you should give a platform for sure.

1230
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 8: That's a healthy person, well adjusted. Help them spread their message.

1231
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 2: Yes, we love Oprah Winfrey doing things that are Again,

1232
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 2: as a guy who's read a lot of Nazi propaganda,

1233
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:34,439
Speaker 2: almost indistinguishable from Nazi propaganda like this is specifically one

1234
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: of the major justifications of the Holocaust. Jews are abducting

1235
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 2: Christian babies and sacrificing them to the devil, like that

1236
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 2: is really bad to do. I really can't emphasize enough

1237
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 2: how dangerous this thing is. And if you look at

1238
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 2: shit like in QAnon right where there's a like a

1239
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 2: third of the country believes that the Democratic Party are

1240
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 2: literally eating babies to gain everlasting youth, which like just

1241
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 2: look at Nancy Pelosi, Guys, she's not getting everlasting youth,

1242
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: like her hip just broke. This is unequivocal bastardism, right, Like,

1243
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 2: this is a bad thing to be doing.

1244
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know, I mean presumably the thing was

1245
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 6: like wink, We're not going to ask you any hard questions, right,

1246
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 6: let's just get the rating.

1247
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 2: Just tell me, give me some detention. And it's it's

1248
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 2: so fucked up that, like, on one hand, when you're

1249
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 2: doing this about like you are talking to someone about

1250
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 2: their their difficulty. You know, I've never experienced an orgasm.

1251
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: You're asking these kind of questions to get them to

1252
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 2: say more. That is making other people with the problem

1253
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 2: of whom there are many feel less alone. Same thing

1254
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 2: with like sexual assault survivors. And then the fact that

1255
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 2: you have your you have absolutely no compunction with like

1256
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 2: I'll do the same thing for Lias about juice sacrificing babies. Yeah,

1257
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: fascinating stuff.

1258
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 8: I'm curious if she because it sounds like at one

1259
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 8: point in her her career she really thought of herself

1260
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 8: as like a news person, a journalism person.

1261
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 3: What does she think about her career now?

1262
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 2: You know, here's the thing, because Oprah never really trained

1263
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 2: in journalism very much. I don't know if she maybe

1264
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 2: believes this, if she thinks these are the same, Like,

1265
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: that's kind of the thing to me because but also

1266
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 2: I want to be like, you are clearly brilliant. You

1267
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 2: are a once in a lifetime genius at least it's

1268
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 2: some things. But also, as we've all seen, we've all

1269
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 2: become increasingly aware of people who are like, well, you're

1270
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 2: clearly brilliant at one thing, and now your access to

1271
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 2: Twitter has made us all aware that you don't understand

1272
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: anything else.

1273
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 4: So, I mean, the evidence is seems to be that

1274
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,919
Speaker 4: people who are brilliant on one thing may actually.

1275
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 2: Be terrible in everything.

1276
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 4: Standard.

1277
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it may just be that Oprah is a once

1278
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 2: in a lifetime mind when it comes to the business

1279
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 2: of entertainment, and also honestly believed this woman sacrificing babies

1280
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: with her family.

1281
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1282
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 2: Now that said, we have the fact that we have

1283
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 2: quotes from her being like, hey, get me a priest

1284
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 2: who said this makes me kind of lean more in

1285
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 2: the direction of Norah Oprah new right. Some of this,

1286
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 2: A lot of this is bullshit and it was just

1287
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 2: trying to get eyeballs on the TV, don't I think

1288
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 2: it's often a mix, Like, I don't know how much

1289
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 2: she's able to parse it herself. I want to talk

1290
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 2: about another incident that kind of really makes me go

1291
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 2: back and forth, which is the McMartin preschool satanic abuse scandal.

1292
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 2: Now we cover this in our episodes on the Satanic Panic,

1293
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 2: but the gist of the case is that a bunch

1294
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 2: of parents became convinced that their children, more than three

1295
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: hundred of them at all, had been systematically abused by

1296
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 2: a Satanic cult headed by the McMartin family, who ran

1297
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: a private preschool. The initial allegations, which included claims that

1298
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 2: one of the alleged molesters could fly, were made by

1299
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 2: Judy Johnson, who suffered from schizophrenia and was a hardcore alcoholic.

1300
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 2: From her allegations, a community hysteria developed, which was stoked

1301
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 2: by an abuse therapy clinic run by Kee McFarlane, who

1302
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 2: provided investigations that pushed children with leading questions towards generating allegations.

1303
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 2: A whole lot of people had their lives ruined by this.

1304
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 2: And despite the fact that the investigation literally dug up

1305
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 2: the ground around the school to try to find secret

1306
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 2: satanic torture tunnels, no one was ever convicted of molesting

1307
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 2: any kids and people. I don't. I hate relitigating this

1308
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 2: because people are always like WEO. But they did find tunnels, No,

1309
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 2: they didn't. They found trash buried underneath the school because

1310
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 2: a farm had been there and people bury trash. All

1311
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 2: of the shit that was buried in there was stuffed

1312
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 2: from the era at which there was a farm there

1313
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 2: where people were burying trash, the dead animal bones. That's

1314
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 2: just what happens in the ground, guys. That's just how

1315
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 2: things are. It's not they weren't running tunnels to molest

1316
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 2: toddlers for the devil.

1317
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 12: It's also just it's like the logistics of like running

1318
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 12: a fucking satanic call, Like what the fuck are you

1319
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 12: talking about again?

1320
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 2: It's one of those and like I'm not saying no

1321
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: kid ever got molested at this or other preschools like that.

1322
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 2: A lot of times the satanic abuse does come from

1323
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 2: there's a real sexual abuse problem, and then it gets

1324
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 2: turned into something that absolutely isn't happening, and again, shitloads

1325
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 2: of innocent people get wrapped into it too. Yeah, I

1326
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 2: don't think I'm not saying that was a happen at

1327
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 2: Macmartin because again, nobody got convicted of anything.

1328
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 4: So it's not highly correlated with Satan. No, in fact,

1329
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 4: it might be higher correlated with Satan's old friend.

1330
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. And in fact, church leaders, Southern Baptist leaders, Catholic priests,

1331
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 2: police officers, these are the people who are molesting kids.

1332
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 2: And honestly, more than any of those their own parents

1333
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 2: and relatives, that's who does it. That's who molests kids.

1334
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 8: But it's so much more satisfying to believe it's I'm

1335
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 8: like big conspiracy, and Andrew to your point.

1336
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 2: Look at a cousin and uncle. Huh sorry what they

1337
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 2: can fucking fly?

1338
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 4: What do they need tunnles for?

1339
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:12,439
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, what do they need?

1340
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 3: Why?

1341
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 2: Why are they doing.

1342
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 3: This in tunnels?

1343
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: Like?

1344
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:16,799
Speaker 3: Why does that make more sense?

1345
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? So as this in this case winds on for

1346
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 2: like like a couple of years, Oprah, it is constantly

1347
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 2: on the show, they are following. This is like the

1348
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 2: OJ Simpson trial, you know, before the OJ Simpson trial

1349
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:30,759
Speaker 2: for Winfrey. And here like they are following every twist

1350
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 2: and turn in this case breathlessly. And when these people

1351
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 2: don't get convicted, Oprah and her audience are outraged. She

1352
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 2: refuses to accept this. She brings a bunch of the

1353
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 2: children and parents and even some of the jurors onto

1354
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 2: the show to relitigate the case. And She's not the

1355
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 2: only person doing this. She's part of a trendon daytime TV.

1356
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 2: Heraldo Rivera does the same thing, so does Sally Jesse Raphael,

1357
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 2: But as La Times columnist Howard Rosenberg noted, compared to them,

1358
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 2: Raaldo was as judicious as the Supreme Court. In other words,

1359
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 2: he's saying Heraldo's coverage of this was responsible next to Oprah's.

1360
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 2: And Heraldo Rivera is not a responsible man. I don't

1361
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 2: know how else to describe him. Again, when he got

1362
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 2: hit in the nose with that share, it was the

1363
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 2: best thing that ever happened to this country. Quote and

1364
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 2: here's Rosenberg, the level of fairness here was typified by

1365
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:23,799
Speaker 2: Winfrey's admission that she would have made a poor macmartin

1366
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 2: juror because I would say the children said it, all right,

1367
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 2: you're right. The studio audience applauded. You see pieces this

1368
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 2: too that like if the children say it, it's true,

1369
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 2: If a mom says it, it's true, it's like, No,

1370
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 2: you have to have an evidentiary standard when you are

1371
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 2: accusing huge numbers of people of hideous crimes. You can't

1372
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 2: just say we put a bunch of kids in a

1373
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 2: room and wouldn't let them leave until they told stories

1374
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 2: of satanic molestation tunnels and then lock people up forever.

1375
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 2: That's a bad way to run a society. Yeah, I

1376
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 2: don't know good stuff. So while she's doing this, she

1377
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: like has all these people on. She tells like a

1378
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 2: former mcmartin's student, like to tell the audience what she

1379
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 2: told the jury, like over sixteen days of testimony. And

1380
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 2: while this is happening, like you're getting these frequent shots

1381
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 2: of the audience like shaking their heads and like listening

1382
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 2: to these horrible stories. One of the moms tells Winfrey,

1383
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 2: I'm outraged at this verdict, And yeah, it's it's just

1384
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:30,839
Speaker 2: it's very irresponsible. I don't know. I think it's probably

1385
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 2: bad for there to be a case where all of

1386
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 2: these people are rung through the mud on television, then

1387
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 2: acquitted and then have a whole show where you're like,

1388
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,680
Speaker 2: but actually they were still guilty. These people molest these

1389
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 2: innocent people molested. A shitload of kids are running us

1390
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 2: like their lives are already ruined. Oprah, what are you doing?

1391
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1392
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:52,600
Speaker 2: I don't like this. I don't like this.

1393
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 4: Has she ever spoken about any of that? No? No,

1394
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 4: no, no no.

1395
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 8: And I'd have to imagine if she did, the answer

1396
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:01,680
Speaker 8: would be like, well, everybody was doing it, like this

1397
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 8: is what people didn't but.

1398
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 2: You were the most popular of them, right right right?

1399
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, he use this thing with I mean even the

1400
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 6: most popular shows. Though, It's like you are still following trends,

1401
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 6: like you may have a hand on the scale for sure,

1402
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 6: but there is a point to where you know the yeah,

1403
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 6: as we've seen multiple times, like the snowball gets out

1404
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 6: of control and you are simply, regardless of your size,

1405
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 6: you are along for the ride.

1406
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: Yep, Well how's everyone feeling so far?

1407
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 4: Finally got bad?

1408
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 2: It did it did?

1409
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 6: It was pretty bad before, but finally Oprah's doing some

1410
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 6: evident bad.

1411
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 2: The worm has turned, you would say, Uh, anyway, plugs.

1412
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 3: Love that everybody's been bummed.

1413
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:57,640
Speaker 7: Play to go.

1414
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:00,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that was like a like a tough

1415
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 3: spot to end at.

1416
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 8: I guess, although I will say I'm still thinking about

1417
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,799
Speaker 8: that headline or that title of her of the review

1418
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 8: MLK shot twice.

1419
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 3: That I'm gonna be thinking about that one for a

1420
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 3: long time.

1421
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:17,480
Speaker 4: That's that is a level of petty. That is very beautiful. Yeah,

1422
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 4: very nice. I don't know. I got a podcast called

1423
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 4: Jos Racist. It's fine.

1424
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 2: Check out?

1425
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 9: Yo?

1426
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 2: Is this racist? Check out? There are no girls on

1427
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 2: the internet. Uh, and find our our hosts online and

1428
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 2: let them know your favorite moment from the Oprah Winfrey Show.

1429
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 2: Bombard us all on Blue Sky with your favorite Oprah clips.

1430
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 2: Don't do that, oh do it to me?

1431
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 8: I mean I had to like bite my tongue as

1432
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 8: I have so much to say. Go ahead and sumam

1433
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 8: me on behind our on Blue Sky. I want to

1434
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 8: hear your favorite Oprah takes. I will tell you mine.

1435
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 2: Don't bite your tongue.

1436
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 8: Oh it would just be me talking about and another

1437
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 8: time on Oprah she did this and then another episode

1438
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 8: she did that it would be so unfun to listen to.

1439
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,480
Speaker 2: Well, part four, we're gonna we'll find out, We'll find out,

1440
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 2: We're gonna supercharge Bridget. Just just let you loose until

1441
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 2: next time. Folks, don't put people up in front of

1442
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 2: the country and tell them that you sacrifice babies for

1443
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 2: the devil.

1444
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1445
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 5: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1446
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 5: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1447
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 5: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1448
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1449
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 5: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1450
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 5: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1451
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 5: at Behind the Bastards