WEBVTT - Toonstar Brings Web3 Entertainment to Strike-Era Hollywood 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.200 Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.320 which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:18.079 in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:23.080 When the new animated series Space Jump premierees later this month, 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.000 you won't be able to see it on a TV 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.760 network or a streaming service. This show is powered by 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.880 the blockchain, a new style of programming that counts my 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.040 next guests as pioneers in this relatively new corner of 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:40.640 the entertainment space. John Attanasio and Luisa Wong are the 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.400 co founders of the Web three story Studio Toonstar and 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:47.120 if you want to know what on earth a web 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:58.800 three story studio is mist Brown. How we are back 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.880 in John atas you know and so long co founders 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.160 at two Star. Thanks for coming in, guys. 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.600 Thank you for having as thanks for having us cool. 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.640 So I want to start by noting that, you know, 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.319 sometimes when we hear about these new ventures doing something 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.440 super cutting edge, people make assumptions like, oh, these you know, 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.319 Johnny come late leads to Hollywood are trying to but 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.319 you both have quite the resume, having worked on major 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:31.240 franchises at various top studios, like Warner Brothers, Disney dream Work. 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.839 So how did we get here? How did you get 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:36.720 to this kind of cutting edge stuff? 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:38.600 You know? The way we got here is that so 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.800 we we met at we met at Warner Brothers, and 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.319 we were in the. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:45.840 Digital media group there, and we were doing a lot 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.600 of work really at the intersection of like technology and 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:54.000 how tech was like impacting storytelling. And we you know, 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:55.680 we saw on this will sort of like you know, 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:00.360 rewind back to like early days of Web two, and 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:02.000 we saw what was like we're actually on the team 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.320 that we were talking about the benefits of like YouTube 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.760 and sort of this new world and ecosystem where you know, 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:14.400 creators could directly connect with communities and tell stories. And 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.320 so you know, that really opened our eyes to like, 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.960 you know, this idea of that storytelling and the way 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.359 you know, creators and fans connect was was changing. 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:25.320 Uh. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.200 And I think the other thing that we noticed. 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.320 Was that when we looked at the world of animation, 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.520 it still really felt like this a bit of like 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:37.359 a private club. I mean, in the sense of it, 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.760 it felt like it was the same people, whether it 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:44.000 was like writers, showrunners, you know, voice talent, and and 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.200 we didn't see enough you know, new new storytellers, whether 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.000 it was like you know, new ideas, new new concept, 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:55.240 or just diversity of storytellers. And it was and that 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.160 was always weird to us because like, you know, we 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.720 were just like you know, we we call ourselves children 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.359 of Saturday Morning cartoons. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.760 Uh, you know, we just we just love the medium 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:05.359 of animation. 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:09.079 We know how powerful it is in terms of being 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:13.560 a story you know telling medium, but also how powerful 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.400 it is in terms of building you know, franchise I P. 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.320 And it just was weird just that more people didn't 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.320 have access to to the medium. 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:21.960 Uh. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:23.880 And so I think you kind of combined those two 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.760 things of like what was happening you know in sort 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.280 of Web two with this idea of like you know, 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.959 sort of unlocking animation for a new breed of storytellers. 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.680 And that really was the inspiration for starting tune Star. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.160 And that was you know, we got the enough you know, 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.560 courage to leave the corporate nest and and and start 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.640 the company. And at the highest level, like that's that's 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.480 our mission is to build you know, original entertainment I P. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.160 Using you know, we started out in Web two. Now 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.320 we're using Web three, using new forms of technology to 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.360 do it and really unlock you know, unlock animation for 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.000 a new you know, a new generation of storyteller. 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.000 Well, I know it takes courage, but it also takes investment. 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:06.800 And so Luisa, how are you guys able to get 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:11.240 some pretty big investors to come in and back world this. 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:17.160 Yeah, I mean we so we have. We have some 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:22.360 you know, pretty notable investors. Uh were our lead investor, 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:27.960 Founder's Fund. We also have Snapchat as an investor, Great 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:32.240 Craft and Baron Davis also one of our investors. And 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.080 you know, like we really among others. Yeah, and I 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.320 think we really you know, it was it really took 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.120 like building these like proof of concept cases to be 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.080 able to like go out and demonstrate and show that 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.960 you know, this is this is a category of like, 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.080 you know, how do you build this like tech stock 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:57.080 to be able to produce things in animation very quickly 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.880 and be able to you know, district viewed that out 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.120 into the marketplace. And at this time, at the at 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.000 that time in which we were raising, you know, it 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.640 was very Web two centric world. And so we we 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:12.760 basically built we self funded the kickstart to building the 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.720 tech stock to then show that we had the technology 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.880 to be able to do this like quick turn animation, 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.200 and we ended up distributing all of these like little 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:28.360 vignettes in Instagram, in Facebook and and and I think 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.159 that's kind of like where it really really started to 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.560 you know, kind of demonstrate that, wow, there's an appetite 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:40.200 for original animated content shorts in social media. And then 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.800 at the time too, there was Musically, right the pre 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:49.120 TikTok too to the world Musically, and we actually built 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.360 as part of our tech stack this like live streaming 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:57.360 animated live streaming technology, and we had this blue chicken 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.680 named Poppy who ended up being this you know, very 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.440 big muser as they call them. And we had a 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:09.360 live show on Musically that was getting you know, over 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:13.679 one hundred thousand concurrent viewers you know on the show 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.880 at the time, and that was that was huge And 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.559 and I think that really kind of like moved us 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.200 into you know, like a lot of notice. And that's 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.000 really kind of where we had our first round of investment. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.680 Yeah, that was like the that was like really the Yeah, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:33.520 that was like the the moment where venture you know 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:36.080 that that yeah, that really took us you know, started 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.599 the venture path and it was that you know o 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:39.839 g her name, did you? 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.280 Yeah? Yeah, Poppy. So her name was Poppy and. 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.800 She was you know, she was one of the first, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:50.039 she was one of the first animated influencers in social media. Uh, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.520 and just she took off and and I think that 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:58.120 I think that really helped. It helped validate our thesis 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.279 of you know, hey, there there is you know, you 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:04.719 can build these characters direct with communities in you know, 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.479 using technology and sort of new forms of storytelling. And 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.080 then I think to see the kind of audiences we 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.880 were getting, you know, not only loving the character, but 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.200 interacting with the character in different ways. And again at 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.240 that point it was like primarily through through social media. 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.440 I think that really was a point where everyone's like, yeah, this, 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:23.800 there's something there. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:26.240 Yeah. Yeah. 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.600 So now we've got the background down. Let's fast forward 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.720 to today where you know, later this month your is 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:36.119 it third web three series is coming out in form 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.200 of space Junk. So how did you get from this 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.360 sort of social media driven model to what you're doing now, 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:44.480 which sounds pretty different? 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:45.480 Yeah? 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.560 No, I mean so it's it's like, I think for us, 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:51.560 like the way we talk about it is that there 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:53.720 were things that we learned in the in the like, 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.200 there were things that we learned and I think, uh, 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:01.160 you know, capabilities and and you know, expertise, these competencies 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.800 that we honed in the Web two world that are 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.760 you know, very applicable to Web three. I think, you know, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.280 probably even more so potentially in Web three than they 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.400 were in you know, in Web two and social media. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.360 And I think, you know what happened is like, you know, 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.480 we we we built this this you know, this production 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.520 engine that you know can do high quality animation very quickly. 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.080 We have you know a lot of you know, we 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:25.800 have had a lot of. 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:31.160 Reps building communities directly and large you know, these are 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.160 large communities and on social media and they're highly engaged communities. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:35.960 Uh. 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:37.840 And so we had that, you know, that part of 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.760 the expertise. And then I think, you know, enter Web 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.040 three and you know, we'll give you know, give a 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.120 lot of you know, credit to to me Lacunas in 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.480 our team because we saw, you know what they did 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:53.280 with with Stoner Cats. So Stoner Cats that was actually 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.400 the that was the the first animated UH series in 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.280 Web three. 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:00.600 We were the you. 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.000 Know, and basically we came along partner with me La 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.360 and then and her team, and we were part of 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.120 their second animated series and we you know, we added first, 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.160 like we actually we were The Gimmicks is the first 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.240 community driven animated series in Web three, which is a 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.319 little bit different than than Stoner Cats. But we just 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.960 saw what they were doing with that project and we're like, wow, 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.600 this is like, you know, such a great idea in 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.080 terms of like this new this new way to get 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.360 fans involved in helping you know, being part of IP, 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.240 but also this new sort of form of distribution where 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:42.400 you can, as a creator have more control over your story, 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:47.600 over your IP, you have ownership over that. And to us, 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:49.600 that was like, you know, that was very much aligned 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.680 with sort of our DNA and our thesis when we 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.600 launched the company. And again when we launched, Web three 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.600 didn't exist, but we saw you know, and again this 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.640 is rewind this is two years ago that we we 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.640 connect did with them, uh, and so we're like, oh, 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.000 this is great. We pitched Mila and thankfully, you know, 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.160 she and her team came on board as you know, 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:08.800 co producers for the project. 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:10.800 And that's that's. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.440 Really you know, how how our our journey and Web 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.440 three started. But I think sort of beneath all that 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.320 was just this idea of like, yeah, these things that 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.280 we've built are a great fit for Web three, and 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.040 in fact, I think they position us, you know, they're 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.320 even you know, they even position our company to do 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.320 I would say, sort of next level type ipel ip 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.440 building that we couldn't you know, that we couldn't do 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.600 in Web two. And so I think that's I think 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.480 that was probably it where it's like, yes, this is 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.280 a thing where it's just a great fit for what 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.079 we've built. And then we built, you know, over i'd say, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:50.240 over the last two years, built very deep Web three 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.760 tech dev capabilities. So those are those are things around 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.600 building protocols on blockchains, and you know, we built a 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.160 social layer for the Gimmick, which was you know, we've 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.160 we've been told was the for social layer and Web 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:02.960 three and those are all sort of like tech dev 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.559 capabilities that we've spent you know, the last two years 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:07.120 building out. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.000 Okay, so now let's pump the brakes for a second 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:14.880 and give the most explain it to my audience, like 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:20.240 their six explanation of what we even mean here in 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:25.120 terms of you know, a Web three powered piece of entertainment. 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.679 I know you've got the community layer and all that, 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.880 but I'm six years old, deuisa, Explain to me how 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.240 you know, I'm assuming Space junk isn't as simple as 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.960 oh I watch it on streaming service X or TV 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:45.240 network Y. So starting with where do I access this show? 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.160 And what are the things that make this different than 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.400 what I might see on a linear network. 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:55.680 Sure, so in order to access the show, you simply 0:11:55.720 --> 0:12:00.240 go to the website Space Junkies dot xyz and when 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.360 you're there, there's actually a button that says episodes, and 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.240 you click on that and you'll be able to watch it. 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.720 It's not gated, so our projects are not gated, so 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.560 you do not actually need to own a token in 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.640 order to simply enjoy the show. So you would be 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:17.520 able to enjoy the show just like you would be 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.199 able to on television. You just go to the website. 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.000 I don't pay, I don't know, do I watch ads? 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.040 No, Okay, it's there. So just so that experience I 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.679 think will feel very familiar. You just go to that 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:34.240 website and you'll be able to watch the episodes. And 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.760 so that's, you know, very simple. So the next step 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.880 is if you're like, hey, I love this show. Now 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.760 I'm interested in exploring, like, so what does it mean 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.280 to become part of the community. So when you think about, 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.240 you know, again the reference point of like how people 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.360 usually consume their shows, they're like, oh my god, I 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.720 I love you know, I love I love Harry Potter 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.880 not not a show but a movie. But okay, so 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.920 I love Harry Potter and I'm such a fan. Now, 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.680 you know, as a fan, I start to seek out 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:11.520 other experiences in that, you know, in that particular you 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.040 know IP and so that's you know, that's what we've 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.880 built into that website is come watch the show, you 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.200 love the show, you enjoy it. Well, okay, there are 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.920 other experiences. Now go deeper, and the going deeper will 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.800 be we invite you to come create with us. Like 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.160 what we what we know to be the case in 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:36.000 these a lot of these shows or like franchises, is 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:40.040 that people love to be able to, you know, come 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:44.000 in and you see like fan fiction being created. Well 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.280 we've and that's usually kind of like this like secondary 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.520 layer that everyone kind of does on the side. Or 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.720 maybe they'll like you know, go to other like apps 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.200 or community boards and they'll just kind of do it 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.800 on their own. Well, in this case, we've built that 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.760 right into the actual experience. It's like, if you love it, 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.840 come grab a token, come into the behind the scenes 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.040 type of like experience layer. And now what do you 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.320 get access to? You get access to a lot of 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.800 you know, discussions from creators and the people who voice it, 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.760 you know, like the get to see like the making 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.640 of And you also have the ability to create your 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:29.000 own stories, create your own backstories to the token that 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:33.200 you hold, because each token has you know, basically a 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.240 unique set of attributes that you know invite you to 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.240 now create a story with it. 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.920 But also monetization is coming in here. You are purchasing 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:42.520 the n f T. 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.360 Yes, you're purchasing the n f T, and that almostly 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:50.320 it's your past to have all of these other activities, right, 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.120 so you're you're able to create and for that, for that, 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:58.920 you also have the ability to jump into things like 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.920 we the activities that some of them are a contests 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.000 to be able to have your stories like voted on 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.960 in the winners of that you know contest will be 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.800 able to have their stories or their characters invited into 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.200 the main show. And that they'll be able to voice 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.040 a character in the show and be a part of 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:25.920 an episode and get IMDb credit in a production that 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.400 you know stars John Heater, that stars Tony Cavallero. Like, 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:34.240 that's a pretty cool entry point into an industry where 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.360 it's pretty difficult to break in and to just simply 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.760 have like you're name listed as part of the production 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.000 in this you know, in this real you know show. 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:45.640 Now, is this the kind of thing because you know, 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.320 obviously you're not alone out there, although not to crowded 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.800 a space either in terms of people doing this kind 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.080 of thing. But from what I've read and seen, uh, 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.760 sometimes this model has to do with you, the viewer 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.840 who has bought an NF Do you now have an 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:05.160 ownership stake in this show? And is that this kind 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:05.760 of model? 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:06.920 No? 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:11.480 Actually, so it's not an ownership stake in the show. 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.920 So we're not we don't position this as you're not 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.880 becoming an investor in the show. The show is fully funded, 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.360 it's being produced, it's you know, the show's existence does 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.080 not depend on the NFT holders to come in so 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.680 that we pool enough resources in order to make the show. 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.760 This is really more like this is really like becoming 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.840 this like VIP fan base that has all sorts of 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.120 these like you know, really great perks in it. Right, 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.479 So it's like like joining the Soho house, Right, There's 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.880 there's some great perks of like you get access to 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.840 this really great environment. You know, there's some concerts that 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.200 are attached to it, you get to the the So 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.720 it's really like that, It's like this, if you love 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.560 the show, will come and be kind of like this 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:04.080 next layer of a fan a supporter, and you own 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.600 this token, and for this token, you really get to 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.560 go deeper into the creation process. Being a part of 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:15.000 the show. There are you know, like benefits of maybe 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.080 being able to you know, see things that maybe normally 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.280 you would see at like a comic con panel, Like 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:26.080 that's sort of like more direct interaction with creators really 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.280 and and outside sort of even being able to vote 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.000 on where the story goes. These are all ways in 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.800 which you know, like that you know, the fandom, the 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.440 VIP fandom sort of like interacts. 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.919 So the bottom line is you are basically getting this 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.480 greater level of engagement than you would ordinarily. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:53.520 Yes, when we come back and we'll talk a bit 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.320 more about how this model works, will be back with 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.240 John Atanasio and Zula. 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.119 We are back at the co founders of the web 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:12.800 three story studio toon Star to getting into an interesting 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:18.760 business model. Uh John, So, now that I know that 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.600 I as the viewer, the fan and not an owner, 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:26.159 I'm curious from the toon Star perspective, are you the owner? 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.919 Are you the creator? Which how do you make money? 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.040 Yeah? Yeah, so yeah, from from an so a toon 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.680 Star we are the owner along with you know, whoever 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.800 you know is participating in the project. So you know, 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.399 in the case of space Junk, it's you know we 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.600 we we own it along with you know, John Heater 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.120 and Tony Cavallero and and Dominic Russo, who's the creator 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:51.760 of the world. 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:54.200 He's from he did work Aholic. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.119 Yeah so yeah, so he he he created Workaholics and 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.240 so he and and he's the creator of space Junk. 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:03.280 Uh and and so you know the people that are 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:04.760 you know, owners in that i P. 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:07.600 Or have you know a stake in that i P. 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.959 That's that that's you know, how we we've structured it. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.600 Now there there is this other sort of aspect to 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.520 it where and you know this is I don't you 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.840 know too abstract of a concept. But we we like 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:21.600 this notion. 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.000 Of like we we talk a lot about like this 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.120 idea of like nature versus nurture. And there's a little bit. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:28.920 Of this idea with like you know, the like these 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.800 tokens or n f T s where it's like there's 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:33.199 like a rare you know, you get to saying and 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:34.879 it's like rare, and it's like how rare is it? 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.800 And that determines its value and that's okay, And that's 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.560 a that's a fine sort of like you know concept. 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.000 That's how most people understand the n f T market. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.360 Exactly exactly, that's how most people think about it. But 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:47.840 but you know, and that's fine. And like you know, 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.400 when we when we do stuff, there is inherent rare. 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.000 You know, at least in the gimmicks the way we 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.240 did it, there was inherent rarity in you know, some 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.320 of the you know, the NFTs had like a you know, 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.199 different types of rarity. But there's this other aspect. We 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.080 really like it, and it's really like the nurture part 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.719 of it, and the idea there is like you know, 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:11.000 allow the community, through your effort, through your creativity, through participation, 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:16.320 you actually can can become part of the world, and 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.080 and that's through something that you've done, So it's not 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.320 a lot like, that's not a lottery ticket. That's actually 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.919 you know, work and creativity that you've you've contributed to 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.840 the community. And we like that idea, and that's what 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.400 we did with the gimmicks. That's the same thing we're 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.159 doing with Space Shunk, where it's like you you have 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.120 that you have that token, you can actually work your 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:37.000 way in to the main canon. Because if you write 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.920 a backstory or you create fan fiction that the entire 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:45.040 community loves enough to vote you as like the coolest thing, 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.840 then we'll actually bring that into the core canon of 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:49.880 the world. And now all of a sudden, you do 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.560 have a piece of of you know, what's being created. 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:55.960 So it's it's basically we've created this opportunity for the 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.840 community to earn their way in to sort of the 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.280 core cannon. And we just love that concept because it 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.439 is like, you know, it's not just again, it's like 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.720 it's through people's sort of effort and merit, and it's 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.720 also through like these really cool and different ways to participate, 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.040 which we just think, you know, we just feel like 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:19.400 audiences today behaviors changed, and there's an expectation to engage 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.960 more with content and stories and participate in different ways. 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:28.879 And that's certainly, you know, prevalent in younger generations, but 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.760 I think that's also you know, older generations have sort 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:33.919 of learned that too a lot through sort of like 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.560 have been trained through social media. But we see that 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:39.240 as a trend, and I think for us, it's like, 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:40.560 all right, how do we sort of lean into that 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:42.520 and give the community those kind of you know, those 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:43.520 kind of opportunities. 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:47.200 So I get what you're saying in theory, going back 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.480 to the economics of what you're doing. I wonder, when 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.399 you're hatching brand new IP and you're doing it at 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:58.800 a place that is not a destination like a streaming service, 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:01.679 how are you able to get enough people in the 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.480 tent to experience all this to make this profitable. 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:11.760 Yeah, So, so a couple of things. I think, you know, 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:17.560 where we have so our our tech stack does enable 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:22.520 us to create and produce at a much lower, much 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:27.320 lower cost cost basis. So so that in and of itself, 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:31.960 just from an economic standpoint, puts us in a little 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.720 bit of a different category in terms of we're not 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:39.159 looking at an episode costing millions of dollars, right, So 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.800 that's that's definitely you know, that benefit. And so that's 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:46.160 really kind of like I guess, you know, like our 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:48.719 our sort of like how we're able to make it 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.159 work where you don't need to have millions of eyeballs 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.960 on a piece of a piece of content is just 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.440 simply you know, it's as simple as that it does 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.159 not cost us as much as you would in the 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.840 traditional sort of like model. And so and then yes, 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.680 you have you know, the n f T paying members 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:11.119 of the n f T base that are you know, 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:13.960 going to be you know, buying into it and and 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.960 contributing to that, so that you know, obviously then becomes 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:19.560 a revenue model. Then the other then the other side 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:22.719 of it is that you know, creating that sort of 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:27.679 like community there are you know, now you have like 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:31.520 a very avid fan base in which brands become interested 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:35.240 in being able to come and be you know, sponsors 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.359 of like say specific shows or like you know, having 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:43.359 product placement in there. So the economic model isn't significantly 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:47.280 different in terms of like, hey, there are these advertising models. 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.760 Now it looks a little different in Web three because 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:52.720 you have a smaller base, but avid fan base that 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:56.920 also has direct reach. And because of the lower cost structure, 0:23:57.359 --> 0:23:59.800 now you're able to really kind of shape and look 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:03.399 at like the economic model of how you make this work. 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:07.080 Isn't all of a sudden this like huge behemoth that 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:12.280 has a lot of sunk cost structures that will then 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:14.520 you know, sort of say that that was kind of 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:16.760 the big hurdle and animation in the past. It's like 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.280 to green light anything, you sort of have to work 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:21.520 through that you know, Excel spreadsheet and say all right, 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:23.960 I got to make sure to hit X in order 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:27.680 to even clear that profitability threshold to say yes, I'm 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:31.680 going to do this you know episode or do this series. 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:36.480 That's you know, changed for us significantly because of the 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.399 tech stact that we've built and because of now you 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:43.000 have these different ways in which you have monetization where 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:45.719 you can you know, you have merch that you have 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:49.399 avid fan base that has much higher conversion. Right, so 0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:52.000 you have conversion when you look at the broad base 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:56.760 of like you know, the the TV sort of like shows, 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.720 well you have millions of eyeballs and maybe you're converting 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:04.200 one percent to buying a T shirt that looks significantly 0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:09.160 different when you're talking about a web based NFT enhanced project, 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:13.280 because these guys are such huge fans, like you're, you're 0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:17.200 basically going for you do you have a million casual 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:21.280 fans or do you have you know, ten thousand rabbit fans? 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.679 And that's kind of the dynamic that we're now looking 0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:29.000 at and really kind of reshaping how we think about fandom, 0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:32.440 how we think about economic models of these like you 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:36.160 you almost become like these like pockets of like smaller 0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:40.199 businesses that are built around these like ips that have 0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:44.400 the potential of even of scaling, but smaller is still sustainable. 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:47.840 And how do you sell John someone you know, like 0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:51.399 someone creative from Workaholics? Do you join you on this? 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:54.120 What's the incentive there? Yeah? 0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:55.800 I mean you know so I think. 0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:01.399 You know, part of it is, you know, the the 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:05.040 there there are sort of like trends in Hollywood right 0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:08.880 now that that I think make it, you know, honestly 0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:13.679 make it easier. One is that you know it's you know, 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:15.720 and you can see especially what's you know, sort of 0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:18.399 happening now. There are a lot of productions that you 0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:21.960 know are getting you know, canceled, halted things you know, 0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:26.200 will sit in development for extended periods of time. It's 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:29.159 just getting harder and harder to get something made in 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:32.560 the traditional system. 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:31.800 You know. 0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:35.119 I think another part of it is, you know, there's 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:38.160 there's a control and ownership aspect to it as well, 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:41.159 because if you know, say you are able to you know, 0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:44.440 sort of get something at least maybe in a development, 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:48.879 a lot of times you might lose creative control, you know, 0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:51.399 the the ownership that you know, the real ownership that 0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:54.639 you have, and what you created, you know, might not 0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:59.119 really be commensurate for, you know, what you probably should 0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:02.320 get for create being you know, uh you know a 0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:06.359 you know, a like a hit, a hit concept. And 0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:10.080 so I think those I think those trends are you know, 0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:13.480 now you've got storytellers and creators that are you know, 0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:19.680 honestly challenge frustrated, and they're looking for other ways to 0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:24.639 get stories made, get their stories told, have the control, 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:29.520 have ownership, And honestly, I think it's a pretty you know, 0:27:29.560 --> 0:27:33.160 I don't know, but we're obviously but you know, we're biased, but. 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:35.800 I think it's it's a fairly easy, you. 0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:39.000 Know, sort of like pitch because it's like listen, we're 0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:42.000 you know, here's a way to go do this. And 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:43.280 then the other part of it, I think, you know, 0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:45.160 if you talk to people that have worked with us, 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:47.280 they you know, I think one of the things that 0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:50.080 we're proud of is that, like they'll say, hey, like 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:52.200 stuff happens, stuff gets made. 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:53.439 And I think that's probably one of. 0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:55.560 The themes if you you know, if you were to 0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:58.320 talk to you know, all the creatives that we've worked with, 0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:01.720 it's like, yeah, they stuff's happening, Stuff's getting made. In 0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:04.320 like you think about that and it's such such a 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:08.359 basic concept. It's it's but that's how things should happen, 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:11.720 like things should get made, things should you know, progress, 0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:15.480 because that's the business, you know, that we're in. 0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:18.760 That's also let's not forget we're sitting here having this 0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:23.720 conversation during the first week of the writers strike. Frustration 0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:26.320 is probably at a maximum. And I'm this is not 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:30.399 a joking question. Does those does that create a market 0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:33.280 circumstance that helps you, guys, because people are going to 0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:36.480 be looking for opportunities or are you end in by 0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:37.880 the strike somehow or. 0:28:38.560 --> 0:28:45.200 I mean, I think, you know, it's where I think 0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:49.240 that you know, for us, we've always sort of you know, 0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:52.680 been the place where we're like if creators like want 0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:56.000 to create and they want to you know, make stuff 0:28:56.480 --> 0:28:59.920 like where where we say where the place to come 0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:02.920 and be like you won't you have an animated idea 0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:07.239 like like come and talk to us because you know 0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:09.480 we're we're going to be producing and we're going to 0:29:09.520 --> 0:29:11.800 be moving things forward. Because I think that you you 0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:14.680 talk about the frustration that happens, and you know, like 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:17.560 the strike is obviously a very serious matter and it 0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:21.200 you know, has a lot of implications and and I 0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:23.760 think like if you talk to Dom, one of the 0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:26.240 things that you know, like he's, uh, you know he 0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:28.719 said to us, like you know, more than a few times, 0:29:28.880 --> 0:29:32.320 is like like it's unbelievable. You come into this industry 0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:35.800 as a writer and you hear stories like he tells 0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:37.600 the stories, and you know, like other folks that we've 0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:39.880 worked with have told the stories. Like the thing that 0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.920 is that that you never expect that you that you're 0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:49.479 very quickly like surprised by, is that you spend a 0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:55.200 lot of your career waiting. You're waiting for your you know, 0:29:55.360 --> 0:29:59.080 your year years for your series to you know come 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:01.720 out of development in which you're just you know, kind 0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:04.400 of like long stretches of times of like oh, we're 0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:06.040 going to meet and we're going to talk about like 0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:08.400 maybe making the show, and then we're gonna we're going 0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:11.360 to pause and wait again, and you know, there's like 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:15.680 just more consideration and so you spend so much time 0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:18.960 just waiting to see if something's going to happen. And 0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:22.720 so you know, for us, we're like writers strike or 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:25.200 no writers strike. Who we are as a company is 0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:28.000 like we're not We're not sitting and waiting because our 0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:30.640 inherent DNA and I guess this is the benefit of 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:34.080 being really you know, our DNA is like we're we're 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:36.800 tech and creative, but we are still a tech company. 0:30:36.800 --> 0:30:39.440 And as a tech company, the thing that you don't 0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:42.200 get with a tech company is like you can't as 0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:44.160 a tech company sit and wait. It's like you have 0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:46.200 to build stuff. You have to put it out there. 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:49.120 And you know this you know, very tech centric thing 0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:50.680 is like you got to iterate, right, you got to 0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:52.240 put it out and you're going to iterate and you're 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:53.920 going to make the next version. You're going to make 0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:56.720 the next version of the product. And that's really part 0:30:56.760 --> 0:30:59.480 of the tech DNA that we have that's moved into 0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:03.840 our creative process, in our creative collaborations is that you 0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:07.640 can't wait to make stuff. And that's really kind of 0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:11.719 like for us with or without the writer strike. At 0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:13.680 the end of the day, it's like, if you're a creator, 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:16.800 who who you see like speed is important to you 0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:18.720 and you want to put your product out there, and 0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:20.920 you want your stories to be made and stories to 0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:25.440 be told like we we should be we we you 0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:26.720 should be having a meeting with us. 0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:31.680 I'm curious to get your sense of the NFTE marketplace 0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:37.200 right now, particular to it being also a place for entertainment. 0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:40.440 It feels like, you know, we've in the past twelve 0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:44.479 months gone on quite a roller coaster rider NFT's worthy 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:48.080 hottest thing. Yeah, and then that roller coaster came way down, 0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:51.840 maybe coming a little bit back up again. But you know, 0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:54.400 it kind of raises the question for me, like is 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:57.640 the you know, are you attaching yourself to a distribution 0:31:57.840 --> 0:32:01.600 system that, for all its theoretical ram as, the market 0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:04.240 may not necessarily ever pan out in the way that 0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:05.200 you think it will. 0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:08.600 Absolutely, you know, absolutely, you're right. 0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:12.400 I think there's there's it's it's almost an image, it's 0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:15.120 an image makeover. I think in general that like n 0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:20.040 f T S and and web threes need partly because 0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:22.560 I think the associations and and you know, like you know, 0:32:22.560 --> 0:32:24.840 I'll say, like, this is not just a Web three thing. 0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:27.840 This is like you know, we saw certainly what happened 0:32:27.840 --> 0:32:31.280 with ft X, but you know, there's a banking you know, 0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:34.760 you know, s VB was a different that's separate from 0:32:34.760 --> 0:32:37.120 web you know, parts of it separate from Web three. 0:32:37.400 --> 0:32:39.160 So there are things that just happen. 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:40.960 Where you have bad actors in general, right, like you 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:43.360 look through the history of of anything, and you're always 0:32:43.400 --> 0:32:44.480 going to have bad actors. 0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:47.080 Web three is no different. 0:32:47.120 --> 0:32:50.840 Like there are bad actors clearly, you know, cast cast 0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:52.560 a little bit of a you know, certainly a haze 0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:56.480 on on on the potential. But but but I think, 0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:59.120 what what people and this is what we what we're 0:32:59.160 --> 0:33:01.480 trying to do because I think, you know, because we 0:33:01.600 --> 0:33:04.360 are you know, we're committed to We're committed to Web three. 0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:09.000 We're committed to you know, AI technology, and for us, 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:11.520 we believe in it and we believe in its potentials. 0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:16.040 And because we are you know, hopefully trailblazing and pioneering 0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:19.200 some some cool new stuff. Then it's incumbent on us 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:21.760 to help educate and and sort of carrying matches like 0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:25.479 what does this really mean? And I think the challenge 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:28.080 for web three today is that, you know, people don't 0:33:28.280 --> 0:33:31.080 know what it really means, or they they've gotten caught 0:33:31.160 --> 0:33:33.120 up in like, oh, it's an asset that I flip 0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:36.760 and it's you know, it's all about like speculation, and 0:33:36.760 --> 0:33:40.040 and they don't understand the utility of what web three 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:46.160 is and how Web three really can sort of elevate storytelling, building, characters, 0:33:46.200 --> 0:33:49.800 community experiences, all those things, and that that that is real, 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:53.400 that's real potential for Web three. But you know, I 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:55.840 don't think anybody really understands that. And I think the 0:33:55.880 --> 0:33:58.000 problem is we're also getting caught up in like terms, 0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:00.840 and we're talking about it to too technically, and it's 0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.160 like put all that stuff aside, like let's just talk 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:04.880 about and like you know, and again, like Luisa and 0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:08.560 myself are our background, you know, is entertainment. It is 0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:11.080 working at you know, studios, and we've been fortunate to 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:14.160 work on some you know, giant you know franchise ip 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:17.200 it's about the story, it's about the characters, it's about 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:20.359 the creators, the people behind it. Make it about that, 0:34:20.800 --> 0:34:23.680 and then have Web three be you know, sort of 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:27.239 the backbone to this and that shouldn't be the headline, 0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:30.680 but it it should be there, and if you lean 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:34.000 into it, it's going to create all sorts of possibilities. 0:34:34.719 --> 0:34:36.400 But I don't think that should be the focus of 0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:39.239 the narrative because it's just you know, it's it's it's 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.319 I think it's over complicating things and. 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:45.239 I think, you know, like the thing that just uh, 0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:48.239 you know, we said, don't talk about the technical. I'm 0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:50.359 going to talk about the technical for a minute. I'm 0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:53.520 going to talk about the technical for a minute. There's 0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:57.840 there's NFTs and then there's Web three, right, so you 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:01.839 have like we're excited by the Web three you know, 0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:06.520 technology and infrastructure and what it's going to do for 0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:10.880 for distribution, for you know, for production, for for you know, 0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:14.120 story creation. Because at the end of the day, like 0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:16.799 I guess, you know, like I'll give an analogy like 0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:21.560 when you have or an example, not an analogy, but 0:35:22.040 --> 0:35:25.560 like if you are a fan base of like anything 0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:28.560 that's out there, like you know, usually like these uh, 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:32.520 these big projects. They usually have like, oh, these like 0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:36.000 fan experiences that they create, and it's usually like, you know, 0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:38.640 an agency creates a fan experience and it's great and 0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:40.800 people are like, oh, this is so exciting, so fun. 0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:44.520 And then when you know, kind of like the movie 0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:47.320 inherently sort of like you know, goes out of theaters 0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:50.440 and you know, moves into different cycles of that. You know, 0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:53.520 what happens to that fan experience because that's usually being 0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:56.640 run by an agency that's been tasked to create this 0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:59.280 sort of like you know, other experience to go along 0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:02.120 and the companion of the release of the movie. Well, 0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:05.600 you know, the studio stops paying the bills, and then 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:07.759 the agency is like, okay, cool, Well we're done with 0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:11.359 that experience, and then it's probably either shut down or 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:13.240 they just kind of like leave it there and it's 0:36:13.280 --> 0:36:18.680 in some like digital wasteland. And as a fan, what happens. 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:21.880 It's like, well, if I really love this experience and 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:26.719 I've invested time and let's say the story creation you know, 0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:30.640 our story creation portal was part of that experience, Well, 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:34.960 if the agency shuts down or stops you know, managing it, 0:36:34.960 --> 0:36:37.120 it basically just kind of sits there. And flound just 0:36:37.160 --> 0:36:39.360 and I'm like, as a fan, well, what if I 0:36:39.400 --> 0:36:43.640 spent five, ten, twenty one hundred hours creating this and 0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:46.480 I really loved it, and all of a sudden, it's like, wait, 0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:50.600 it amounted to nothing. And to us, it's like we 0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:54.200 also have to really kind of think about our responsibility 0:36:54.320 --> 0:37:00.759 to what fans invest in the experience, because even if 0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:03.680 they don't give you a ton of money, the thing 0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:06.120 that they're also giving you is a lot of time 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:10.919 and attention. And that is what Web three is going 0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:14.000 to inherently change about. That is like that in the 0:37:14.000 --> 0:37:17.560 Web three ecosystem won't go away, can't go away because 0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:20.640 of smart contracts. So even if somebody is like, okay, 0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:24.400 I'm not actively administrating anymore, you don't need someone actively 0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:27.880 actively administrating it because it is now powered by a 0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:30.360 smart contract and it will not go away. It's just 0:37:30.719 --> 0:37:34.160 it's forever locked and automated, so that if a fan 0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:37.840 wants to forever have that experience, they can. And that's 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:40.560 the beauty of it is like it's like as long 0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:43.600 as there's a fandom around it, it will self perpetuate 0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:46.400 and it won't go away. It's not like this marketing 0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:49.360 vehicle that then all of a sudden like oh, bills 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:53.520 get bills stopped? Well, okay, no, now it's digital wasteland. 0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:57.279 So I want to get a sense of what your 0:37:57.680 --> 0:38:01.640 long term vision is here for not just your company, 0:38:01.680 --> 0:38:04.279 but for Web three Entertainment. So in other words, are 0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:08.080 you guys counting on a world where Web three takes 0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:12.600 over and the old distribution models crumble? Or no, you know, 0:38:12.719 --> 0:38:15.560 Web three will just be sitting there alongside everyone else 0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:18.000 and it'll be one other thing you do. I just 0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:22.360 how how how much cool later am I drinking? 0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:24.560 What's the level of right? 0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:28.640 It's not you know, like I it's never going to 0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:31.480 be something that's going to like you know, like it's 0:38:31.480 --> 0:38:35.760 not about like destroying like old institutions or it's it's 0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:38.800 it's always going to be this like it's additive. 0:38:39.239 --> 0:38:41.440 Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's like I think 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:46.879 it's complimentary. I mean we're we're we're seeing it as 0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:47.800 a as. 0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:56.360 A springboard you know for original you know, original ideas. 0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:57.080 For you know, new diverse creators. 0:38:57.560 --> 0:38:59.719 Also you know, for creators that have had success and 0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:03.919 truditional that you know, want to do something original, because 0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:05.319 I think that's the other part is like you know, 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:09.000 your your earlier question of like how like why you know, 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:10.600 why are we able to sort of like work with 0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:12.719 some of you know, like the amazing you know sort 0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:15.200 of like creators and talent that we are. I think, 0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:17.799 you know, another reason is like there there is like 0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:21.680 you know, prequel, sequel, reboot, fatigue and and you know 0:39:21.800 --> 0:39:23.560 this and you know and again like we come from 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:28.280 that world and understand why that is happening, but doesn't 0:39:28.320 --> 0:39:30.720 change the fact that's that's that's the state of play. 0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:34.000 And and so if everything's a prequel, sequel, reboot, where 0:39:34.040 --> 0:39:36.439 do I go with my original idea? And I think 0:39:36.480 --> 0:39:38.759 that's what we're seeing Web three as like here here, 0:39:38.960 --> 0:39:42.600 hopefully is the birthplace, the springboard for original ideas, original 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:46.840 IP again you know, new diverse storytellers also you know, 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:49.520 traditional folks that have had a lot of success and 0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:50.839 use that as a springboard. 0:39:51.320 --> 0:39:53.080 Uh, you know, to Luis's point, you get. 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:55.799 Your you know, your rabid fans are in there, they're 0:39:55.800 --> 0:39:58.520 sort of building the IP and then from there, it's 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:00.839 absolutely complimentary to why couldn't it. 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:02.720 Then go to a streamer eventually? 0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:05.279 Why couldn't it you know, become a film and I 0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:08.960 think I think that traditional system is complementary to to 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:09.480 Web three. 0:40:09.480 --> 0:40:09.719 I don't. 0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:11.359 I don't think it's an either or, And I do 0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:15.200 think future state you're you're gonna see, you know, much 0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:17.160 more of a fluid. You know, you're gonna you're you're 0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:20.200 gonna see much more of a fluid sort of like 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:24.360 relationship between you know, traditional and Web three. 0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:27.200 I don't want to skip the fact that another distinction 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:29.640 about Space Junk is you are going to have the 0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:35.680 first character voiced entirely by an AI voice generated software. 0:40:35.719 --> 0:40:39.680 Which sounds great, but let's what exactly does that mean? 0:40:39.800 --> 0:40:44.759 Is this character writing its own dialogue or speaking your 0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:46.879 dialogue that you've written? How does that work? 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:47.479 Yeah? 0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:51.120 So I'm sorry, Andy, I'm afraid I can't do. 0:40:51.160 --> 0:40:59.200 That those who don't know what I had to continue. 0:41:01.880 --> 0:41:05.920 So, Yes, the character's name is well Becca, and so 0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:10.840 in the show she is performing the lines that have 0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:16.000 been written by by by Dominic Russo and so so 0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:20.040 in in the show itself, she's uh she's fully uh 0:41:20.200 --> 0:41:24.439 AI generated voice. So this is there's a distinction. There's 0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:27.680 you know, the voice cloning technology where it's based on 0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:31.200 somebody's performance, and then there's you know, full AI voice generation, 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:34.000 so you know, kind of literally created in a lab. 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:39.439 So she's performing, she's performing the lines and she's she's 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:44.000 an AI actor and yeah, so that's her sort of 0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:48.040 in the show. Now outside of the show are our 0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:52.120 social media is actually being run by well Becca, and 0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:55.600 the social media post and the social media interactions that 0:41:55.680 --> 0:42:00.920 are being had is actually completely generated through AI engines. 0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:03.880 And then there's the well and then May the creative 0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:04.680 co pilot. 0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:07.480 Yes, so the other the other you know, I think 0:42:07.600 --> 0:42:09.759 really cool thing about well Becca is then you know, 0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:13.520 so those are you know, those examples are on you know, 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:16.160 sort of on the production side, but then we're also 0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:17.439 using well Becca. 0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:21.359 On the community facing side, where she's going to be. 0:42:22.960 --> 0:42:26.040 Essentially your creative co pilot. So if you're in the 0:42:26.040 --> 0:42:29.640 community and you want to go, you know, write a 0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:33.560 rite fan fiction for a character or a concept within 0:42:33.640 --> 0:42:36.279 the Space Junk universe, you're going to go to well 0:42:36.320 --> 0:42:39.560 Becca and she's going to help you come up with 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:42.840 you know, fan fiction. So now you know again, so 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:45.360 she sort of becomes like you're you know, your your 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:49.200 your yeah, your creative assistant, your creative co pilot to 0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:52.880 help you make make things as as a community. 0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:56.319 Member at the risk of falling off the cutting edge here, 0:42:57.040 --> 0:43:00.480 I have to ask, so where we stay and now 0:43:00.520 --> 0:43:02.479 at you know, the beginning of a whole new era 0:43:02.640 --> 0:43:06.040 when it comes to AI, generative AI, what it can 0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:08.760 mean to the creative process. My guess is you guys 0:43:09.040 --> 0:43:12.360 are thinking a lot about this stuff. Do you have 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:14.960 at this early sense of the game, what you think 0:43:14.960 --> 0:43:17.760 this will mean for your company or the industry at large? 0:43:19.080 --> 0:43:27.440 We're we're super big question, We're super excited. Yeah, I mean, 0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:30.400 so we've been We've been for a long time actually 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:36.240 using AI in in the production pipeline through machine learning. 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:39.640 So and then this is you know, this is our 0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:44.360 first foray into a more community facing experience. And and 0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:49.520 then obviously as like an actual performer in a show, 0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:53.040 the way that we see AI and and you know, 0:43:53.200 --> 0:43:54.920 kind of everything that we sort of do so far, 0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:59.759 as like AI is a great tool for creators, for 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:04.959 you know, for people in the creative industry, because it's 0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:09.399 a way to be able to supercharge a lot of 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:13.160 like idea creation, being able to help you you know, 0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:16.279 generate proof of concepts to just even see like, is 0:44:16.320 --> 0:44:18.320 this a direction that I want to take with something. 0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:23.320 So so for us, we're super super excited by now 0:44:23.440 --> 0:44:26.600 it feels like the ability to you know, get even 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:30.880 more creative and to experiment with things that maybe you 0:44:30.920 --> 0:44:34.720 know might have taken us you know, weeks can be 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:39.800 synthesized in days, and we're excited by you know, you 0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:44.680 take creators. It's like, hey, creators have like so many 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:48.040 ideas that all of a sudden they can sort of say, hey, 0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:51.359 like what does this idea look like? Like, please synthesize 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:54.480 it for me. And now what AI does is like 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:59.680 it helps you kind of get fifty sixty seventy percent there. 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:02.560 It's never going to be able to you know, like 0:45:02.600 --> 0:45:04.680 we've all seen the headlines, right it's like, oh, it's 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:07.799 going to write the next you know, succession. It's not. 0:45:08.560 --> 0:45:08.960 It's not. 0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:10.560 But I think and I think that's like that I 0:45:10.600 --> 0:45:12.640 think that is the misconception because it's not like listen, 0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:14.480 AI is not a button you hit and out pops 0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:17.919 Harry Potter. Like that's just that's not you know, that's 0:45:17.920 --> 0:45:20.000 not how it works. But but it is this like 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:24.799 it really is this like great tool assistant, you know, 0:45:24.920 --> 0:45:27.360 creative copilot. I think that is a good sort of 0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:30.719 like way to think about it. That does supercharge you 0:45:30.760 --> 0:45:33.880 as a creator, and when you see what comes out, 0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:36.960 it does it can do a good, good portion of 0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:39.040 the heavy lifting and you know, to Luise's point, maybe 0:45:39.120 --> 0:45:43.000 get you forty fifty sixty percent there, but then the rest, 0:45:43.160 --> 0:45:46.840 you know, if you if you really want quality output, 0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:49.839 something that fans are going to like love, and you know, 0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:51.960 like you want to interact with you're gonna have to 0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:52.560 You're gonna have to. 0:45:52.600 --> 0:45:53.359 Lean in and do that. 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:56.920 Like that's just that's the human element. But it is, 0:45:57.040 --> 0:45:59.239 you know, a combination of both. It does like and 0:45:59.280 --> 0:46:01.040 we you know, to this point also like we've been 0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:03.680 using it on the production side for years and there 0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:06.480 are some some it's been really it's been really helpful. 0:46:06.640 --> 0:46:09.600 And I think that you know, I think longer term 0:46:09.880 --> 0:46:12.520 it is going to create new opportunities. Now, I think 0:46:12.560 --> 0:46:14.080 there's also part of where people are going to have 0:46:14.120 --> 0:46:17.400 to rethink what they do and there's going to be transformation. 0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:19.880 There's going to be transition there, there's no doubt. But 0:46:19.920 --> 0:46:21.879 I think longer term there are going to be new 0:46:22.040 --> 0:46:25.319 sort of like opportunities that that are created by this. 0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:27.239 But it's just gonna be a matter of like thinking 0:46:27.239 --> 0:46:28.920 about things differently. And I think the hope is like 0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:32.080 it's it's going to free up people to be more creative, 0:46:32.080 --> 0:46:35.080 like like spend your time on things that are you know, like. 0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:38.480 Original artistry or like pure creation. 0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:42.080 And that's where hopefully people can spend their time and 0:46:42.480 --> 0:46:44.719 you know spend you know, yeah, spend more of their 0:46:46.120 --> 0:46:49.160 their their their their work on on those kinds of activities. 0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:53.400 Well, there's a lot of quite a ferment on the 0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:58.080 innovative side of Hollywood these days, and you guys are 0:46:58.160 --> 0:47:02.960 clearly playing in this playground space. Junk starts May nineteen. 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:05.200 If you want to check out the future of entertainment, 0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:08.680 get in early, get an NFT. Thank you John Eluisi 0:47:08.760 --> 0:47:11.440 for coming in today, Thank you having thanks a lot 0:47:11.440 --> 0:47:20.720 for having us. This has been another episode of Strictly Business. 0:47:20.880 --> 0:47:24.040 Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:26.799 with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you 0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:30.319 subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave 0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:33.160 a review in Apple Podcasts and let us know how 0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:33.640 we're doing.