1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,479 Speaker 1: Before we begin, please be aware this series contains discussions 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: around infant deaths and other difficult topics. Please take care 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: while listening. The moment my daughter was born, the doctors 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: noticed strange markings on her skin. Within hours, someone gently 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: explained she might have a rare genetic disorder. I remember 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: sitting in the postpartum room, exhausted and terrified while my fragile, 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: beautiful baby girl had dozens of wires taped to her scalp. 8 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't help her, I couldn't hold her. Like all 9 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: first time parents, I had been expecting that cinematic moment, 10 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: skin on skin, a warm little body settling into mine, 11 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: the quiet breath of relief after months of waiting. Instead, 12 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: I spent the next six month months in limbo, fearing 13 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: she might never walk or talk, that she might go blind, 14 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: that a tiny hidden defect in her heart might stop 15 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: it altogether. When I became a mother, I knew I 16 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: would sacrifice everything to help my child. But this was 17 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: not a problem I could fix, and I was left 18 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: with no choice but to trust. Trust the nurses lifting 19 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: her from my arms, Trust the doctors who did test 20 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,279 Speaker 1: after test, Trust the specialist who spoke in a calm 21 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: voice about a possibility that parts of her brain might 22 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: be missing. Because in the Niku, trust isn't optional. It's 23 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: the air you breathe. You hand over the most precious 24 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: thing in your life to people you barely know, believing 25 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: they will protect what you can't. That vulnerability defines the 26 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: ex experience. It's overwhelming and it's necessary. And then, finally, mercifully, 27 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: the doctors told us she had tested negative. That her brain, 28 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: her heart, her eyes, they were just fine. I'll never 29 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: forget that feeling, the world opening up again, the gratitude 30 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: so heavy it almost knocked me off my feet. Most 31 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: parents with a child in the nic you get that moment, 32 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: But in twenty fifteen, at the Countess of Chester Hospital, 33 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: some never did. The historic heart of Chester is like 34 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: a time capsule, filled with everything you expect from a 35 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: very old, very storied British city, cobbled streets, pubs dating 36 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: back to medieval times, an imposing stone cathedral and an 37 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: honest to goodness castle Tucked in one corner, all surrounded 38 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: by a great, big, fortified wall. Right at the edge 39 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: of Chester is the local hospital named after Princess Diana. 40 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: It's called the Countess of Chester, which was one of 41 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: the titles she got when she married King Charles. 42 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: But the history of the site where. 43 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: The hospital was built isn't, shall we say, quite as 44 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: illustrious as the stuff in the old city center. 45 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 3: The Countess of Chester originally was built on the site 46 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 3: of a Victorian mental asylum. 47 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: That's Michelle Warden. She used to work at the Countess 48 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: of Chester as a neonatal nurse. She started a few 49 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: years after Charles and Diana's royal visit. 50 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: Speaking of which. 51 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: The hospital built itself doesn't exactly live up to its 52 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: regal name. It's, you know, a hospital. It looks like 53 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 1: a hospital built in the seventies. You can probably picture it, unfussy, functional, 54 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: lots of concrete. But this run of the mill building 55 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: and what happened inside has for the past decade been 56 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: at the center of the latest big chapter in the 57 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: history of Chester. In fact, many believe that what happened 58 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: here is one of the biggest things to have happened 59 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: in the history of modern Britain. The country just hasn't 60 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: settled on what that thing is. History is still being written. 61 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 4: They clearly felt that she's one of Britain's most notorious. 62 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 5: Killers what to do about a trial which, in my 63 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 5: view is a clear mischaracter justice by a judicial system 64 00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 5: that could not manage. 65 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: I'm Amanda not and from Vespucci and iHeart podcasts. This 66 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: is doubt the case of Lucy Leppie episode two, The Countess. 67 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: Back in twenty fifteen. 68 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: When you arrive at the Countess, that's how a lot 69 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: of people refer to it. By the way, the Countess, 70 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: one of the first things you'll see is a short, 71 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: stocky building to your left. That was the women and 72 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: Children's building. 73 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: I mean, the women and Children's department. Hospital was designed for, 74 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 3: as it says, women and children. So you've got a 75 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 3: pediatric ward, you have in the natal ward, you have 76 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 3: all the maternity. 77 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: Michelle again, she spent so many years in this building, 78 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: she could probably recite the layout in her sleep. 79 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 3: You've got fetal medicine unit, anti natal, postnatal, guynecology, you've 80 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 3: got operating theaters, infertility. Anything to do with women and 81 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 3: children is within that building. 82 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: But a lot has changed since Michelle first started working 83 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: there in many important ways, some for the better and 84 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: some for the worse. 85 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 3: It wasn't until the mid nineteen nineties, with the development 86 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 3: of a drug which helps to develop premature baby's lungs. 87 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: That really revolutionized the care of these sick and premature babies. 88 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: Though new drugs helped the infants breathe easier, the same 89 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: couldn't be said for the facilities. By the time Michelle 90 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: retired in two thousand and seven, the women and Children's 91 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: building itself was coughing and spluttering. 92 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 3: It was a lovely unit, but it was old, and 93 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 3: with any old building, it had its problems which were 94 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 3: always going on. I went to work on the unit 95 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: in ninety ten, eighty eight, and where and tear was 96 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 3: beginning to show. Even back then, problems with the plumbing, 97 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 3: the sinks and the taps sometimes not working properly. 98 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: The plumbing system had recycled the Victorian pipes in the 99 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: foundation from the ground's mental asylum days, sewage would back 100 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: up into the sinks. It would also leak from the 101 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: pipes overhead onto the incubators. This was a chronically underfunded unit, 102 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: and often the maintenance crew was forced to improvise. One 103 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: maintenance worker described to the Telegraph newspaper a time he 104 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: and his colleagues had to pad the ceiling tiles with 105 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: diaper lining. A last ditch effort to stem the flow 106 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: of literal shit from the pipes overhead. There was never 107 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: enough time or money to put out all the fires. 108 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: By the summer of twenty fifteen, the hospital had been 109 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: begging the public for help, pleading for donations. 110 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 6: She's raising money for the Countess of Chester. Does Baby 111 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 6: Grow a pail launched to raise. 112 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 4: Three million pounds to build a new neo natal special 113 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 4: Baby Kay unit to provide. 114 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: Everyone threw themselves into the effort, racing rubber duckies on 115 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: the River Dee, charging down the streets of Chester in 116 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: Santa costumes, and gamely taking part in goofy dance videos 117 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: like the one with the pediatrician in charge of the unit, 118 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: doctor Stephen Breery, shaking his hips to the tune of 119 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: Twist and Shout and making heart shapes with his hands, 120 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: all for the cause. 121 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 6: On behalf of. 122 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 7: The doctors and nurses that work in Chester on the 123 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 7: neonatal unit. 124 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: That's him. Doctor Breery would. 125 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 7: Like to express my sinceres thanks be very kind donation. 126 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: Soft spoken, self effacing, Doctor Breery had that pillar of 127 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: the community vibe to him. But the real poster boy 128 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: the pediatric team was doctor Breery's close friend doctor Rovi Jayram. 129 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: He was thin and sprightly with a shock of curly 130 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: black hair. The local papers called him the TV doctor and. 131 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: Doctor Rabi Jerram is with us now because we're going 132 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 3: to talk about this a little bit. 133 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 8: Mind j If I'm a consultant pediatrician and I've worked 134 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 8: for the NHS all. 135 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: My career, consultant is the most senior rank of doctor 136 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: in the UK. You'll be hearing that word a lot 137 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: in this series. Doctor Jayram was a consultant and just 138 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: so we're all on the same page. NHS stands for 139 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: National Health Service. It's the UK system of free healthcare 140 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: for all. Making it to consultant level took a long 141 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: time and a ton of work. But through all those 142 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: sleep deprived years, doctor Jayram never forgot to nurture his 143 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: first love, showbiz. He busked on the streets of Chester 144 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: as a teen, shot his shot at the Edinburgh Fringe 145 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: Festival in college, and became a mainstay of British game shows, 146 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: all while coming up the ranks in medicine. 147 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 3: This is your third appearance. 148 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: It is yes, that's him on the weakest link. He 149 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: actually won at one point. 150 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 8: Anything else I indulge in the occasional karaoke. 151 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 6: Puts your board down? 152 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 5: What can you sing? 153 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 8: I could do honky Tonk Women by the Rolling Stones 154 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 8: in tribute to you. 155 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: Well, I doubt whether you can, but you can try. 156 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 3: Have you started it? 157 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 8: I met a Jinsea barn queen in Memphis. 158 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 4: She tried to take me upstairs. 159 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 3: For a ride. 160 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: In his downtime, Doctor Jayram played local gigs with his 161 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: band The Diluted. Here they are at the Cavern, a 162 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: live music spot in Liverpool where The Diluted were a 163 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: regular attraction. 164 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 3: He's actually got a good singing voice and he is 165 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 3: very theatrical. I actually asked him why he didn't pursue 166 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 3: a career in drama and he said, well, that's not 167 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: what nice Indian boys do, is that? I mean? His 168 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 3: father was a consultant, his brother is a very eminent 169 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 3: consultant ophthalmologist in London. 170 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: But doctor jerm found a way to make his medical 171 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: career and his rockstar ambitions work for him. In the 172 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: summer of twenty fifteen, he was co starring in a 173 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: reality TV show called Born Naughty, where he and a 174 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: fellow doctor met parents of badly behaved children and decided 175 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: if a medical diagnosis was the answer to their problems. 176 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 4: As a pediatrician and a GP. 177 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 2: Dr Ravi and Dr Dawn often meet badly. 178 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 5: Behave kids, but now they must crack some real hard nuts. 179 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: He spent the early part of that summer criss crossing 180 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: the country doing promo or his reality show, as well 181 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: as other media work. He seemed to be everywhere except 182 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:11,479 Speaker 1: perhaps the understaffed neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital. 183 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: But just as the. 184 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: Future is looking bright, something terrible starts unfolding in the 185 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: neonatal unit. It won't be long before the unit is 186 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: demanding all of doctor jay Rum's attention. There will be 187 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: little time left for show business. In the UK, not 188 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: every nick you is the same. Neonatal units are graded 189 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: level one through three, depending on what level of care 190 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: they are equipped to provide. Jenny Harris, who spent years 191 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: as a neonatal nurse in the NHS, helped me out 192 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: understand what those levels actually mean. 193 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 9: If your hospital has a Level one nionatal unit, that 194 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 9: means that you can just care for babies that just 195 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 9: need feeding and growing, maybe a little help with respiratory support, 196 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 9: but only like minor respiratory support like oxygen. 197 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: Then you have your level two unit. 198 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 9: They can also take high dependency babies, so these are 199 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 9: babies that need safe seapap, may need fluids, premature babies 200 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 9: up to a certain gestation. And then your level three 201 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 9: unit is the unit that does everything so special care, 202 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 9: high dependency, all intensive care, babies, whatever they may need. 203 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 9: And what they do is say there is a baby 204 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 9: and a Level one unit that needs to go to 205 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 9: a Level three, then in the transport team would go 206 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 9: to that baby, stabilize the baby, and take it to 207 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 9: the hospital that's more equipped to care for that baby. 208 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: Jenny worked on the transfer team. She spent years moving 209 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: tiny patients from one hospital to another, from one level 210 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: of care to the next. The Countess of Chester was 211 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: a Level two unit. 212 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 9: My favorite was going to the Level ones and the 213 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 9: Level twos because they were so cozy, quiet. They're all 214 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 9: decorated nice, and you know, got pictures on the walls 215 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 9: and selling knitted stuff and a little trolley, like it's 216 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 9: just so lovely. You just go in and it's just, yeah, 217 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 9: it just seems more homely. 218 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: For the parents. The nick Yu is both terrifying and miraculous. 219 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: It's where the smallest lives fight their biggest battles. A 220 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: place of constant fear, yes, but also of hope. The 221 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: Unit of the Countess in summer twenty fifteen, like many 222 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: across the UK, is worn and cozy. It cares for 223 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: premature babies, babies who struggle to breathe, to feed, to grow, 224 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: and it isn't known for high death rates. From twenty 225 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: eleven to twenty fourteen, two or three babies died there 226 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: each year. On paper it was unremarkable. It's early June 227 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: and a set of twins has just been born. They're premature, tiny, 228 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: but breathing. Their mother has a rare autoimmune condition which 229 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: made her pregnancy risky. At seven months, her twins are 230 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: born by sea section and whisked away to the neonatal unit. 231 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: Here's Michelle again, the nurse that worked at the Countess. 232 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: They were supposed to be born in London and the 233 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 3: mum had antiphosphilipid syndrome, so they delivered her inesca. 234 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: The twins are placed in adjoining cots, tubes for feeding, 235 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: wires for monitoring in place of their mother's heartbeat, They 236 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: now hear something else. Monitors footsteps hushed voices, the unfamiliar 237 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: rhythms of the neonatal unit take over. Unlike many American hospitals, 238 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: where parents can stay around the clock, UK neonatal units 239 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: are often more nurse led, parents come and go, care 240 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: continues through the night, and like so many parents in 241 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: a neonatal ward, the twins' parents were most likely offered 242 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: gentle reassurance, the kind meant to steady you when everything 243 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,119 Speaker 1: feels uncertain. 244 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 2: They just need a little more time. They're in the 245 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 2: best place. 246 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: I remember hearing a version of that myself when my 247 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: daughter was in hospital. We have our best people on it. 248 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: You're doing great. No promises, no guarantees, just something soft 249 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: enough to hold onto. But when nothing feels certain, you 250 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: hold onto hope and trust. But for the parents of 251 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: these twins, that trust became heavy the moment the alarm sounded. 252 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: Something is wrong. Their baby boy's condition has deteriorated. Suddenly, 253 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: hours later, they're holding him, but not in the way 254 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: they had hoped. In a later victim impact statement, his 255 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: parents would describe how quote, we never got to hold 256 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: our little boy while he was alive. Doctor Jayram was 257 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: there that night. There was no clear answer he could 258 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: give the parents. Years later, during his testimony during Lucy 259 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 1: let Be's trial, doctor Jayram would recall the awful conversation 260 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: he had to have with the parents that night. It 261 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: was a difficult situation, he'd say, when the first thing 262 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: you have to tell a family is that number one, 263 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what's going on, and number two, I 264 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: don't think we're going to be able to bring him back. 265 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: With their daughters still in intensive care, the parents were 266 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: forced to do the impossible to grieve one child while 267 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: hoping for. 268 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 2: The other baby. 269 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: A's nurse, Lucy let Be makes them a memory box, 270 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: a lock of hair, a footprint, a tiny knitted Years later, 271 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: in a court of law, these mementos would take on 272 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: a very different meaning. One day later, the alarm sounds again. 273 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: This time their daughter, the surviving twin, has collapsed. Thankfully, 274 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:29,479 Speaker 1: the doctors intervene in time. Neonatal medicine is a world 275 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: built on watchfulness. Doctors and nurses are used to things 276 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: changing suddenly, to alarms, to emergencies, to living in a 277 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: constant state of readiness. Because these babies are fragile, unbelievably fragile. 278 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 2: Here's Jenny again. 279 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 9: There's so many things that can go wrong with preterm babies. 280 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 3: This so sensitive. 281 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 9: Even change in their nappy can cause them to have 282 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 9: a bleed on their brain. People just don't realize how 283 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 9: sensitive these babies are. That's very rare, but it can happen. 284 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: Most days. 285 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: They managed to pull babies back from the edge, and 286 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: then there are the days that stay with them forever. 287 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: What happened during those forty eight hours left the nurses 288 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: and doctors on the unit in shock. Of course, these 289 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: twins had names, but because the courts ruled that none 290 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: of the names of the babies in this case could 291 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: ever be made public, they came to be known as 292 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: Baby A and Baby B. One day, the UK justice 293 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: system would officially recognize Baby A as the first known 294 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: victim of a serial killer nurse. 295 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: Now, I want to be careful here. 296 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: It's hard for me to truly grasp what these parents 297 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: lived through, although I myself have experienced what it's like 298 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: to have a newborn in the hospital. To then be 299 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: told that the person you trusted with your baby's life 300 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: may have been the one who took it. It's unimaginable 301 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: and yet, regardless of where the truth ultimately lies, this 302 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: is the reality these parents have been living inside. When 303 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: I spoke to doctor Phil Hammond, you may remember from 304 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: episode one we discussed the power of grief, how it 305 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: forces one to search for answers and for the parents. 306 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 2: In this case, the. 307 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 10: Parents' supportive by the laws is still absolutely convinced of 308 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 10: her guilt because they've spent so much of their life 309 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 10: invested in this. Imagine the emotion of the verdict to 310 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 10: all that stuff. 311 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: Tragically, four days after baby B collapses, Baby C dies 312 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: a boy, and eight days after that a baby girl 313 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: Baby D. Three deaths and one unexplained collapse in two weeks. 314 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: Even on a unit where the babies are compromised, this 315 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: was unusual. The staff tended to see three baby deaths 316 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: a year. 317 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: Three and two weeks was a crisis. 318 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: By the end of that summer, the NIKU at the 319 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: Countess would be forever changed. There were more collapses, more funerals. 320 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: Parents brought in balloons for milestones, only to leave with condolences, 321 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: and quietly a question began to swirl amongst the staff, 322 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: why is this happening? 323 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 4: So I remember within the hospital, within the our team 324 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 4: at handover, it was a regular topic of conversation. 325 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: These are the words of doctor Rachel Lamby read by 326 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: an actor. They are from transcripts of her testifying at 327 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: a public inquiry which was set up right after Lucy 328 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: Leppi's conviction. This inquiry had a very specific mandate to 329 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: figure out if let Be the serial killer could have 330 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: been stopped sooner. Back in twenty fifteen, doctor Lamby was 331 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: still a doctor in training. In England, doctors in training 332 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: are referred to as registrars or junior doctors. Doctor Lambey 333 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: was one of the first people on the scene when 334 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: Baby A's alarm went off. She was there the next 335 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: night too, when his twin sister, Baby Be collapsed. By 336 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: the time Baby C and D die, everyone is on 337 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: high alert. Here's an actor again reading a section of 338 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: testimony from doctor Lamby during the inquiry. 339 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 4: I remember, on more than one occasion almost a heart 340 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 4: sink feeling of Oh gosh, what's going to happen today? 341 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: In this moment of crisis, a fissure begins to form. 342 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: Amongst the staff. On one side are the registrars and 343 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 1: the nurses. They're looking to the senior doctors in charge, 344 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: the consultants for answers. 345 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 2: On the other. 346 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: Side are the consultants. There are seven of them together. 347 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: They're responsible for all of the children who pass through 348 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: the building, from the most premature of babies to the 349 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: seventeen year old with a broken leg. Doctor jayram leads 350 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: the pediatric department and doctor Breary the neonatal unit. 351 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 2: The consultants don't have. 352 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: Any answers for the sudden spate of baby deaths, but 353 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: they also don't want the rest of the staff to 354 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: think they don't have this under control. 355 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 11: Dear aw Rachel Lambi came to see me this morning. 356 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: This is how one of the consultants, doctor John Gibbs, 357 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: begins an email to the six others the day after 358 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: Babyde's death. Here's an actor reading what he wrote. 359 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 11: The registrars are very concerned about the recent neonatal deaths 360 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 11: and collapses. Rachel also said that all the neonatal nurses 361 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 11: are very worried. They feel we ought to be doing something. 362 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 11: Although I've mentioned we are looking into this, I'm not 363 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 11: sure exactly how this is being done. I think a 364 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 11: meeting would be useful, even if we have no answers. 365 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: In an effort to put the others at ease, Doctor 366 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: Breerry says that he and the head of the neonatal 367 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 1: nursing team have carefully gone over the details of the 368 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: three recent deaths to see if there's anything connecting them. 369 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: But as he would tell the BBC years later, there. 370 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 7: Was nothing in common that we could pin this three 371 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 7: deaths on. 372 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: Well, maybe there is one thing. Doctor Breery has gone 373 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: through the work schedule for the nurses and notices one 374 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: nurse who has been on duty when all three babies died. 375 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 7: Stuffing analysis did identify that lucy let Be was on 376 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 7: shift for those three episodes. 377 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: A pattern starts to emerge. In August, a fourth baby dies, 378 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: lucy let Be was his nurse. In September, lucy let 379 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: Be is on duty when one of two babies die. 380 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: In October, another baby, lucy let Be is on duty again, 381 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: in December another and again lucy let Be was there 382 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: eight deaths by the end of the year, lucy let 383 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: Be is present for seven. For or Breery, what could 384 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: be dismissed at first as mere correlation is hardening into 385 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: a strong basis for suspicion. 386 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 5: I'd like to speak to the families. Sorry, Sorry for 387 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 5: my part in not being able to protect your babies. 388 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 5: I tried my best, and I acknowledged that at times 389 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 5: my best was not good enough. 390 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: That's an actor reading from transcripts of doctor Breery testifying 391 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: at the inquiry about a year and a half ago. 392 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: He looks much older now, older perhaps than you might 393 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: expect the rosy cheeked doctor in the light hearted fundraising 394 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: videos to be. The toll of the last ten years 395 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: is clearly visible in his appearance. Doctor Breery was the 396 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: first of the consultants to notice a correlation between Lucy 397 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: let Bey's workshifts and the deaths of babies. The way 398 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: he says he remembers it, it had actually been the 399 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: head of the neonatal Nurses, Arian Powell, who had pointed 400 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: the correlation out to him, and that his instinctive reaction 401 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: had been to say, oh, no, not Lucy, not nice Lucy. 402 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: He was asked about this at the inquiry. 403 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 6: Well, your mind jumped to something to say, oh, no, 404 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 6: didn't it? 405 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 5: Yes? What did it jump to the concern that there 406 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 5: might be somebody harming babies? 407 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 408 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: As the number of deaths kept climbing and Lucy let 409 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: Be kept being there when they happened, the association, as 410 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: he would take to calling it, would come to dominate 411 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: doctor Breery's mind. It would also put him at loggerheads 412 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: with the nursing leader, who he had said had originally 413 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: pointed out the association to him, and who. 414 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: Was Lucy let Be's boss. 415 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: To the nursing leader, Arian Powell, the correlation with let 416 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: Be's shifts told them nothing about why these babies had died. 417 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: In an email to doctor Breery after yet another death, 418 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: she wrote, it is unfortunate that she was on. However, 419 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: each cause of death was different. Some were poorly prior 420 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: to their arrival on the unit. 421 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 4: There was no evidence there. 422 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 6: Your evidence was the commonality well, dead children. 423 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 4: Yes. 424 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: As more and more babies die, there are more meetings 425 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: and more reviews by Breery and Powell. These discussions grow 426 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: to include others, the nursing manager for the whole hospital, 427 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: a neonatologist from a top hospital in Liverpool who is 428 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: friends with doctor Breery, but always with Breery and Powell 429 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: arguing from opposite ends, which Powell was grilled about at 430 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: the inquiry. 431 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 6: Lety was protected because she occupied an intersection between two things. 432 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 6: She was a nurse who was being criticized by the doctors, 433 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 6: and she was a nurse who you liked, and that's 434 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 6: why she was protected, isn't it? 435 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 4: I think ill mistaken liking with actually supporting your staff. 436 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: Powell points to other factors. Several of the babies had 437 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: unsurvivable birth defects. Many others had serious worsening infections. 438 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 2: By the time they died. 439 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: All but one of the babies had autopsies, none of 440 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: which flagged anything suspicious. 441 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: In those meeting rooms. 442 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: Two stories kept colliding, and for a long time the 443 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: discussions continued. But then in June twenty sixteen, just over 444 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: a year since the death of Baby A, a set 445 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: of triplet brothers are born at the Countess. They've been 446 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: naturally conceived and are identical, sharing the same placenta, an 447 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: incredibly rare thing, the kind of thing that only happens 448 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: once every two hundred million births. The triplets are born 449 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: at thirty three weeks by c section and sent straight 450 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: to the neonatal unit. Their parents are told not to worry, 451 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: the babies just need some time to grow. But on 452 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: the brother's second day of life, their parents are confronted 453 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: with a scene of total chaos. One of the triplets 454 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: is having a very serious medical crisis. 455 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: His stomach is swollen. 456 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: His dad would later say during his testimony in court 457 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: that it was like et stomach, like a pot belly. 458 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: The doctors tell the parents that they don't know what's 459 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: going on, but they are trying their best to save him. 460 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: At one point, the dad would recall it was like 461 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: they were trying anything. The doctors aren't able to save him, 462 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: and the baby boy dies. The next day, the second 463 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: of the triplets die in a scene so similar and 464 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: chaotic to the day before that the mother during the 465 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: trial would later describe it as deja vus. She would 466 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: remember a young doctor quote googling what to do. In 467 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: two days, two of their babies have died. The parents 468 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: plead to have their surviving son transferred to a different 469 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: hospital for doctor Breary. 470 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 2: It was obvious what had happened. 471 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: Lucy Letby had murdered both boys. She'd been on duty 472 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: both days and been put in charge of both babies. 473 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Breery would later tell the police about the way 474 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: Lucy let Be had smiled and said hello to him 475 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: the morning before the first triplet had died. He would 476 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: wonder out loud if she'd been taunting him. After these 477 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: two deaths, the management knew they had to make changes. 478 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: There was no more discussion to be had. 479 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 4: After this incident. 480 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 6: After the deaths of Owen p Yes murders, we now know. 481 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: They agreed to get let Be off the unit. She 482 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: shipped off to a back office in another department at 483 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: the hospital and given an excuse to cover up the 484 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: real reason for the move that all the neonatal nurses 485 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: would be moved out for a period of time and 486 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: she was just the first one up. So the consultants 487 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: get what they want, Lucy let Be off the unit, 488 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: But the hospital executives aren't finished. They too are concerned 489 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: about the spike and baby deaths, but think the explanation 490 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: lies elsewhere. They see an overburdened unit and believe they 491 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: should hit the pause button on taking in so many babies, 492 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: especially ones that are so vulnerable. The managers agree to 493 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: remove let Be on the condition that the unit also 494 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: be downgraded. 495 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 3: They downgraded the unit to a Level one, which was 496 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 3: in June twenty sixteen. A Level one unit is basically 497 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 3: just special care, so you're not taking any sick babies 498 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 3: at all. You do, of course, always still get sick 499 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 3: babies because you can't predict what's coming into the maternity doors. 500 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: But the sickest babies and the ones who are especially 501 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: premature would now be transferred to bigger, more specialized hospitals 502 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: straight after birth. 503 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 3: It's really frustrating for me when I hear people saying, well, 504 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 3: after that they took Lucy off, there was no more deaths. Well, 505 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 3: that's true, but there was no more sick babies either. 506 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: On top of this, management invites the medical body responsible 507 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: for all pediatric care in the United Kingdom to come 508 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: in and investigate. These are not easy compromises for the doctors. 509 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: Downgrading the unit would be a hit to their reputation 510 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 1: and they worry they will lose skills. They also feel 511 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: they already had an answer for why so many babies 512 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: are dying in their unit. Lucy let Be was murdering them. 513 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: This didn't need more medical reviews, it needed the police. 514 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: Despite the consultants' allegations that Lucy let Be was on 515 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: shift for each death, the review finds those beliefs to 516 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: be based on gut feelings. The report states that quote, 517 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: there was there's no other evidence or history to link 518 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: nurse l to the deaths, and her colleagues had expressed 519 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: no concerns about her practice. This was a subjective view, 520 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 1: with no other evidence or reports of clinical concerns about 521 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: the nurse beyond the simple correlation end quote. Rather than 522 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: supporting the doctor's suspicions, the final report points out other 523 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: issues that needed to be dealt with on the understaffed, underfunded, 524 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: and overwhelmed unit. For the consultants, things seemed to go 525 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: from bad to worse. Lucy let Be eventually finds out 526 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: why she's been suddenly removed from the unit because the 527 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: consultants thought she was murdering babies. She files a grievance 528 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: saying the hospital has not been honest about the reason 529 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: for her redeployment and that the doctors had bullied and 530 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: harassed her. She wins that grievance, the doctors are forced 531 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: to apologize to her. They are told that she will 532 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: be coming back. That is more than they can accept. 533 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,240 Speaker 1: The same month that Lucy let Be is set to return, 534 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: doctor Jayram asks for a meeting with the head of HR, 535 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: and in that meeting he tells her a hair raising 536 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: tail that changed everything. 537 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 8: That is a night that is etched on my memory 538 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,720 Speaker 8: and will be in my nightmares forever. 539 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: This is doctor Jayram on ITV news, describing how he 540 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: had once walked in on Lucy let Be trying to 541 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: murder a baby. 542 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 8: Part of me was saying, you better go in and 543 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 8: just check it. Everything's okay, because you know what's happened 544 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 8: before when Lucy's been on duty. 545 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: It had happened a year earlier, but doctor Jayream hadn't 546 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: told anybody in management until now. Lucy let Be was 547 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: standing over a baby and the baby was struggling to breathe. 548 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: As the baby was gasping for air, Lucy let Be 549 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 1: was doing nothing to help. 550 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 11: What was she doing there? 551 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 8: What she was just standing there? 552 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: This scene right out of a horror movie is finally 553 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: enough to get the police involved. 554 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 6: Lucy. 555 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 7: Step. 556 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 8: What was clear at that point was that Lucy let 557 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 8: Be was the consistent in all that. 558 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 4: She was the thread running through them all. 559 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: That's next time on Doubt The Case of Lucy let Be. 560 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: Doubt the Case of Lucy let Be is brought to 561 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 1: you by Vespucci, iHeart Podcasts and Knox Robinson Productions. I've 562 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 1: been your host Amanda knock Es. This episode was written 563 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: by Joe Meek, Clucy De Olivera and Natalia Rodriguez The 564 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: co producers were Clusy To Olivera and Lucy Ditchmond. Senior 565 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: producer is Natalia Rodriguez. Audio mixed by Tom Biddle. The 566 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: theme music was written by Tom Biddle, story editing by 567 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: Kathleen Goldhar. Legal advice was provided by Jack Browning. The 568 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: producers at iHeart Podcasts are Chandler Mays and Katrina Norville. 569 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: The executive producers were Joe Meek, Amanda Knox, Christopher Robinson, 570 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: Daniel Turkin, and Johnny Galvin. 571 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:41,720 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening.