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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: Hey Drein.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Back. It's the Book of Joe Podcast with Me,

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Speaker 2: Tom Berducci, and Joe Madden. Joe's that time of year.

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Speaker 2: I have to ask you, have you done all your shopping?

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Speaker 2: Almost finished?

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty close. I just got to get Coral, one

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Speaker 3: of my granddaughters. I think I just have Coral left,

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Speaker 3: get something for Beanie when I get up the pah

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Speaker 3: on Friday.

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Speaker 4: So overall, yeah, I've been I've been very proactive. I'm

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Speaker 4: normally proactive.

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Speaker 3: I got so many you know, the grandkids and kids

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Speaker 3: and everything, so I kind of stay on top of

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Speaker 3: these things.

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Speaker 4: So I think I'm in pretty good shape.

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Speaker 2: Good for you. Well for those who are not, by

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Speaker 2: the end of this podcast, we will give you some

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Speaker 2: holiday gift ideas for a baseball fan. I'm speaking of gifts.

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Speaker 2: How about the Yankees picking up Cody Bellinger for a

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Speaker 2: song Joe. This is obviously the Cubs wanted to move

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Speaker 2: out from under Cody Bellinger after the t from Kyle Tucker.

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Speaker 2: He basically was not living up to the contract that

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Speaker 2: was two years, fifty two million left unless he ops

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Speaker 2: out after one year, and the Yankees were a willing

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Speaker 2: partner there. On paper, Joe, it's a great fit, I

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Speaker 2: think because Cody Bellinger could play center field, get Eric

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Speaker 2: Judge out of center, get him back where he belongs

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Speaker 2: on the corner. And he's a left handed bat, and

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Speaker 2: the Yankees really need a left handed compliment to Eric

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Speaker 2: Judge specifically, he fills those bills. I'm not sure about

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Speaker 2: the Cody Bellinger that they're getting, Joe. That's what I

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Speaker 2: want to ask you about. When you get a player

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Speaker 2: like this who's trending down. You know, Cody Bellinger from

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, that player does not exist anymore and he's

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Speaker 2: not coming back. He can look at the way he

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Speaker 2: hits the ball, and Cody Bellinger has lost the ability

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Speaker 2: to hit the ball hard. In the last two years.

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Speaker 2: His average EGGS velocity out of two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: five batters ranks two hundred. He's been essentially over the

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Speaker 2: last five seasons, so it's not just the last two

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Speaker 2: years an average major league hitter. He's at OPS plus

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Speaker 2: of one hundred. That's essentially flat average. Now we know

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Speaker 2: there's more in the tank, Joe. He's a good athlete,

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Speaker 2: so give me your take on what happens with Cody Bellinger.

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Speaker 2: If you're the New York Yankees, they got a good

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Speaker 2: heading coach and James Browson. Do you just sign up

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Speaker 2: for this version the Cubs had the last couple of years,

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Speaker 2: or do you say, hey, we can get more out

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Speaker 2: of him.

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Speaker 3: First of all, the one thing about him Bellinger, he's

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Speaker 3: a really good baseball player. I mean, so you've got

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Speaker 3: to look at the overall picture. I can play defense

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Speaker 3: in a couple of positions really well, like really well.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's a cute on the basis, he's just

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Speaker 3: a good baseball player with a lot of versatility. So

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Speaker 3: that's got to account for something regarding his offense in

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Speaker 3: that ballpark. Immediately, he could become better and more of

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Speaker 3: a power hitter in that ballpark if he is able

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Speaker 3: to pull the ball.

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Speaker 4: There, which I think he can.

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Speaker 3: And the next point would be, I'm certain that they

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Speaker 3: have done their homework and talking to James, they feel

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Speaker 3: as though they know what they can do to help him.

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Speaker 3: But I think number one would be the permission to

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Speaker 3: strike out. I mean, if you really want to get

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Speaker 3: more power out of him, because I know he's made

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Speaker 3: a really big push over the last couple of years

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Speaker 3: to contact the ball more, which I like, but I

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Speaker 3: like it with two strikes, you know. I just think

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Speaker 3: maybe situationally, you just turn them loose a little bit more,

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Speaker 3: And I would start with that with the permission to

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Speaker 3: strike out. And really, yes, I'm not necessarily working on

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Speaker 3: pulling the ball all the time, but I think he's

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Speaker 3: so good as an athlete that he could learn to

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Speaker 3: really turn it loose early in the account and then

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Speaker 3: he could just go to battle, almost like what Rizzo

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Speaker 3: has done over the last several years. So you're getting

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Speaker 3: a really good baseball player that fits multiple needs. Yes,

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Speaker 3: in the outfield, but if you need a first baseman,

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Speaker 3: he's really good there too. And then the final point

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Speaker 3: to really, if you want more pop out of this

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Speaker 3: permission to strike out and then really work on the

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Speaker 3: pull side while you're still maintaining his ability to move

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Speaker 3: the ball in situations run around third, baseless and two outs.

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Speaker 3: I just got to score this point. He has the

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Speaker 3: ability to do those kind of things. So I think

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Speaker 3: that's what they were looking at when they acquired him.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good idea, Joe, because I've seen Cody

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Speaker 2: last couple of years now. He's gotten better against breaking stuff,

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Speaker 2: which I like. But I have seen him cut down

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Speaker 2: in his strong maybe not necessarily always just with two strikes.

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Speaker 2: He has cut down for the most part on his strikeouts,

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Speaker 2: and he has put the ball in play the way

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Speaker 2: he can riund you and run yourself into some hits

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Speaker 2: that way. But again, it's the power. Maybe it is

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Speaker 2: just late power that he got away from. And just

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Speaker 2: turn them loose and let it fly and accept a

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Speaker 2: few more strikeouts if they come. You know, I'm surprised

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Speaker 2: because now they have it. I don't know if this

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Speaker 2: is valuable or not, Joe. They can measure bat speed, right,

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Speaker 2: I always thought of Cody Bellinger pre's shoulder injury as

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Speaker 2: a guy with tremendous bat speed. You saw how hyper

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Speaker 2: flexible he was and that bat would wrap all the

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Speaker 2: way around his shoulders. He was in the thirteenth percentile

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Speaker 2: in bat speed this year, and again he's not hitting

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Speaker 2: the ball hard. It's lugging percentage is way down from

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Speaker 2: where it was in twenty nineteen. I just think the

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Speaker 2: Yankees and I understand your point, and I like your point.

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Speaker 2: You know, keep your expectations a little lower on Cody Bellinger.

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Speaker 2: You know he's not an envy. He hasn't made an

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Speaker 2: All Star team since twenty nineteen. He's a good player.

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Speaker 2: The other point you made I like Joe is he's

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Speaker 2: a good big player. And if he asked me one

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Speaker 2: goal for the New York Yankees this offseason, forget about personnel,

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Speaker 2: just overall goal to me, it would be play cleaner,

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Speaker 2: fundamental baseball. And I think Doandre helps there no question.

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Speaker 4: I mean with the right that's been a big push.

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Speaker 3: We heard all of that during the playoffs, and me

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Speaker 3: reading being a post reader, I read it almost daily

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Speaker 3: when they when they recapped the previous season, certain things

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Speaker 3: that they have to do better at, things that they

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Speaker 3: thought were not good, and that fundamental component always comes up.

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Speaker 4: He is a fundamental player, and you're right.

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Speaker 3: His swing, my god, when he was really good a

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Speaker 3: couple of years ago playing against the Cubbies, I thought, God, how.

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Speaker 4: Could a guy swing that hard and not miss? And

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Speaker 4: he didn't.

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Speaker 3: And the big thing with that, I think at that

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Speaker 3: point was as the it became more in vogue to

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Speaker 3: elevate fastball, the effectiveness of his swing went south. Basically,

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Speaker 3: he had more of an upper cut kind of a swing,

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Speaker 3: and I think he's done really hard to attempt to

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Speaker 3: kind of level that thing off, really stay inside the ball, etc.

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Speaker 3: Things that permitted more contact based on what he had

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Speaker 3: been And I think did he have some kind of

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Speaker 3: an injury to his hand under wrist or something.

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Speaker 2: It was the shoulder. I mean, famous shot heard around

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Speaker 2: the world was when he did the shoulder bump. But

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Speaker 2: kik Hernandez in the twenty twenty postseason, well, I think

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Speaker 2: that's right. You know, that loose limb guy lost that looseness.

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Speaker 2: The shoulder had to be surgically operated on and tighten

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Speaker 2: it up, and you quite naturally, you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: lost that flexibility at speed.

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Speaker 4: No, no question.

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Speaker 3: It's no different than you know when you're measuring clubhet

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Speaker 3: speed with a golfer.

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Speaker 4: I mean that's probably where it's gone.

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Speaker 3: But I maybe you'll never reachieve that number of that

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Speaker 3: ability to get it there that quickly. But I think athletically,

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Speaker 3: like I said, if you just let him go a

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Speaker 3: little bit, well, I don't know the guy. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I've always liked his game from a distance, and I'm

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Speaker 3: just surmising if I am the Yankees, these I want

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Speaker 3: to get back to some of that, and I think

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Speaker 3: this would be my approach with him regarding the clubheat speed. Again,

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Speaker 3: he's learned how to handle the ball up and again,

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Speaker 3: and that would be more like line drive apple kind

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Speaker 3: of a thing. But man, when he was he would

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Speaker 3: kill that stuff down, I mean kill it, and with

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Speaker 3: this big old swing, with this tremendous finish, the bat

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Speaker 3: would wrap around his back. I would watch him like,

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Speaker 3: would be amazed that he could almost seehim out of

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Speaker 3: control and not be out of control. So there's got

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Speaker 3: to be something there that they're looking at. And this

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Speaker 3: would be the kind of the beginning I would have

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Speaker 3: with him. I'm sure it's going to start down here

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Speaker 3: in Tampa early on, with some kind of workouts in

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Speaker 3: January February, prior to camp. But dang, if they could

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Speaker 3: get him even close to back where he had been,

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Speaker 3: I just think he fits perfectly with this group.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Yankees, I still contend they'd be better off

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Speaker 2: with Jon Soto, right, I mean, he was plan A.

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Speaker 2: They tried to sign him. I will contend they were

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Speaker 2: never going to sign him because the Mets simply were

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Speaker 2: not going to be outbid. But let's take stock so

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Speaker 2: far of what they've done. Would Plan B Joe okay,

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Speaker 2: because they wound up with Max Reid, Devin Williams and

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Speaker 2: Cody Bellinger. And now let's talk about the cost and

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Speaker 2: player capital that they have given up. They gave up

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Speaker 2: a guy with a bad four arm who's a free

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Speaker 2: agent to be It's Nester Quartz. They gave up a

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Speaker 2: five foot six second baseman with no power prospect that

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Speaker 2: durban the Brewers in that deal, and in this deal

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Speaker 2: for Bellinger, they gave up Cody Petite, who's a right

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Speaker 2: headed pitcher thirty years old, who's thrown eighty innings in

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Speaker 2: the big leagues in his life. I mean, what do

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Speaker 2: they give up? So you hit three former All stars

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Speaker 2: who have tremendously high ceilings very little, and I think

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Speaker 2: they've got one more move left as a matter of

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Speaker 2: whether you go want to attack first base or third base?

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Speaker 2: Best options? Christian Walker and Alex Bregman, what do you

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Speaker 2: think of Plan B so far?

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Speaker 4: I am in. I'm in about all of that stuff.

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Speaker 3: We had talked about that or the one part about

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Speaker 3: it I think may have gotten away from them would

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Speaker 3: be Kyle Tucker.

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Speaker 4: That was the guy I would really if I'm in

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Speaker 4: their shoes. I would really want number one that guy.

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Speaker 3: To me telling you, man, people may disagree, but it's

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Speaker 3: not a whole lot of difference if there is between

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Speaker 3: him and Jan Soto for me, because this guy's maybe

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Speaker 3: more complete player than Soto is.

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Speaker 4: His ability at.

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Speaker 3: The plate is maybe not the eye that Soto has,

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Speaker 3: but dang the power and he could hit a left

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Speaker 3: handed pitcher man. So that's that was the one part

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Speaker 3: about it that I thought if the Yankees had got him,

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Speaker 3: that really would have set it up. I thought Bellinger

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Speaker 3: being second place now after that third base and first base.

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Speaker 3: I think that's part of this, the fact that they've

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Speaker 3: given up so little. They just have to be how

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Speaker 3: much comfort did they do? They have taken stuff on

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Speaker 3: right now salary wise, But I like Chisholm at second base.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't even think about putting him back at third.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they keep trying to convince everybody that he's

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Speaker 3: a third baseman, but athletically I would want that fellow

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Speaker 3: at second base and then first. I like I told

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Speaker 3: you before, I'm a big Christian Walker fan. I have

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Speaker 3: been for years. I just when I first saw this

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Speaker 3: guy said, dang, I mean it's like a little ball

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Speaker 3: explodes off this guy's bat and then either I don't

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Speaker 3: think I think Bregman, if I had a bet, was

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Speaker 3: going to go back to Houston if I had a bet,

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Speaker 3: And that leaves Aeronauto Again, here's another guy similar to

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Speaker 3: Bellinger that has been trending differently compared to what he

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Speaker 3: had started out as. However, it's still better than what

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Speaker 3: they have or what they could conjure up in the

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Speaker 3: near future. I mean, I I'd really like to see

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Speaker 3: if they come in and I guess this is not

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Speaker 3: my money, but Walker and and like even in Aeronado,

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Speaker 3: combined with everything else they've done, that would be a

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Speaker 3: pretty outstanding off season.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: From what I hear, the Yankees not that sold on Aeronado. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Bregman not that close with Houston. The Houston started out

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Speaker 2: way below market, and then once the Willia Dommas contract

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Speaker 2: was signed, that number is going to be close to two,

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Speaker 2: if not over two hundred. Red Sox Yankee still in

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Speaker 2: play there. That's gonna still need some time to play out,

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Speaker 2: but definitely options there are still on the board at

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Speaker 2: both corner positions in the infield. I expect the Yankees

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Speaker 2: to address one of those spots, Joe, you've read any good,

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Speaker 2: any good reading material lately?

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Speaker 4: Uh? Yeah, reading a book about wokeness.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I can't remember the author's name, but anyway, it's

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Speaker 3: kind of interesting. I read about it in the New

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Speaker 3: York Post and then I began to read it. It's

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Speaker 3: very you know, clinical, I got to really stay with it.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes my inability to focus and concentrate based on my

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Speaker 3: years of having not read. So anyway, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: interesting book about the woke community and what it's meant

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Speaker 3: and where the world's going to right now. So that's

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Speaker 3: that's where I've been.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I just got through a speaking of dense, a

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Speaker 2: very dense book on the Civil War from Eric Larson,

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Speaker 2: who does a great job. Oh I love historical nonfiction,

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Speaker 2: great stuff, but you got to stick with it. And

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Speaker 2: speaking of dense reads, I just read the sixty three

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Speaker 2: page report that Major League Baseball put together after more

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Speaker 2: than a year long study of trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: what is going on with picture injuries. We need to

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Speaker 2: dive into this joke, some fascinating stuff that's in there.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about that right after this break. Well, Joe,

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing that you had not read this sixty three

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Speaker 2: page before it just came out. It's not available at

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Speaker 2: your local bookstores quite yet, but it tells us a

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Speaker 2: lot of things we already know. Pictures are breaking down

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Speaker 2: a lot. There's more strikeouts in the game, batting average

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Speaker 2: going down. But there were some very interesting findings here,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to start Joe with first of all,

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Speaker 2: the overarching reasons. They had three primary reasons why pictures

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Speaker 2: are breaking down as often as they are. Number one

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Speaker 2: was velocity. There's no question about this, just from a

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Speaker 2: kinetic point of view, they're putting more stress on their

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Speaker 2: arm the harder they throw. As hard as you train,

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Speaker 2: as strong as you get, you just can't strengthen that

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Speaker 2: ucl So that's breaking down from the result of that strain.

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Speaker 2: Optimizing stuff was number two. What does that mean? It

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Speaker 2: means we're in an age of technology where guys are

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Speaker 2: throwing bullpens and all they're doing is looking at their

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Speaker 2: metrics and they're trying to get more spin, more break,

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Speaker 2: and by doing that, you really can't just have a

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Speaker 2: touch and field bullpen. You know, you're maxing out on

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Speaker 2: every pitch. So there's that optimizing stuff. And number three

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Speaker 2: the game now is about maximum effort. It's about throwing

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Speaker 2: as hard as you can for as long as you can,

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Speaker 2: which is not very long. You know, these guys are

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Speaker 2: pitching shorter. So those are the three primary reasons, a

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Speaker 2: whole host of reasons, as you know, Joe, But what

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Speaker 2: do you think about those? Is the three primary reasons

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Speaker 2: why we can't keep pictures healthy?

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Speaker 4: How much did this study cost?

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Speaker 2: I didn't get the total cost of it, but it

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Speaker 2: took more than a year. They interviewed more than two

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Speaker 2: hundred people. I mean everything from biomechanics to orthopedic surgeons,

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Speaker 2: to former pitchers, you name it, club executives, probably a

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Speaker 2: lot of interviews, and a lot of money spent on

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Speaker 2: airplane fares.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's called common sense, isn't it. And it's so

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Speaker 3: weird how that's going to actually play into our post

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Speaker 3: to the day thing. Yeah, I mean, of course it

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Speaker 3: all makes sense, and it's everything we've been talking about.

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Speaker 3: And again it's when you start trying to play have

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Speaker 3: human beings plays though they're being controlled by a joystick,

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Speaker 3: things are gonna are bad.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna happen.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just common Yes, the velocity component of it.

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Speaker 3: You know the stuff in the maxed out bullpens, maxed

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Speaker 3: out everything.

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Speaker 4: It's just from pitch one. They don't want the ball

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Speaker 4: in play.

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Speaker 3: We got to start striking people out from the verious

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Speaker 3: first hitter of the game. And I hated that in

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Speaker 3: the dugout. I mean, and I've used the example James Shields.

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Speaker 3: James Shield's one of the best, most competitive pitchers. I've

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Speaker 3: ever had the pleasure of managing James. When he would

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Speaker 3: be throwing too hard in the first inning, I didn't

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Speaker 3: like that if I saw ninety four and then if

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Speaker 3: you got in a little trouble too many changeups in

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Speaker 3: the first inning, I really believe in. You build into

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Speaker 3: this thing like it's got a great a result in

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Speaker 3: a crescendo at some point we oftentimes you've heard about

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Speaker 3: in the past, Well, if I don't get this guy early,

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Speaker 3: if he's set into the game, I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: get them.

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Speaker 4: And I guys like that.

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Speaker 3: Are really those are the dudes you want, and they're

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Speaker 3: the six, seven, eight inning guys that really make your

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Speaker 3: bullpen even better. So it's one thing the max staff

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Speaker 3: for whether it's your change up, your fastball, whatever, there's

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Speaker 3: this other pitch that you really want to highlight in

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Speaker 3: the game, and then how do you get to the

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Speaker 3: game and what this workout looks like and where all

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Speaker 3: your intent is. And it's not about pitching and feeling

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Speaker 3: and understanding and and really trying to save things to

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Speaker 3: the second or third times with the batting order. It's

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Speaker 3: just lay it all out there. And that's why these

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Speaker 3: guys concede when they want to take the ball from

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Speaker 3: them so early they concede.

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Speaker 4: It's okay.

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Speaker 3: We've trained them also to just to kind of be

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Speaker 3: like afraid of the third time through themselves.

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Speaker 4: So this is all like it is. It's I don't.

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Speaker 3: Want to say brainwashing, because the numbers do kind of

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Speaker 3: support it, but it's it's a situation where we have

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Speaker 3: convinced these pitchers of all these components. So thus they're

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Speaker 3: throwing as hard as they can as long as they can,

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Speaker 3: doing whatever you want us to do. And now taking

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Speaker 3: the ball from them earlier is easier because everybody's bought

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Speaker 3: into this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, the system is set up to

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Speaker 2: encourage exactly the kind of pitching that is harming the game,

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Speaker 2: at least from a fan friendly point of view. We're

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Speaker 2: asking pitchers to pitch less often and pitch less when

356
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Speaker 2: they go out there, so you're encouraging this, you know,

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Speaker 2: let it eat mentality for everybody, including the starting pitchers.

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Speaker 2: The report also acknowledges this is going out in the

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Speaker 2: minor leagues and that's part of the problem as well,

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Speaker 2: and club executives acknowledged that they're even more conservative with

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Speaker 2: their pictures in the minor leagues. So two things are happening.

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Speaker 2: Those pitchers are not developing endurance and they're also again

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Speaker 2: being incentivized to max out because they're not pitching enough. No,

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Speaker 2: there's no and you know this was training, Joe. The

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Speaker 2: days the pictures running are over. There's no endurance training.

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Speaker 2: It is all burst training because pitching has become burst

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Speaker 2: and not craft.

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Speaker 4: Yes on all of that stuff. It's absolutely true.

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Speaker 3: And this is another example of you know, what is progress.

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Speaker 3: In my mind's eye, the word progress or progressive doesn't

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Speaker 3: always mean or equals something that's better. I'll agree that

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Speaker 3: it's different, but I can't tell that it's necessarily better

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Speaker 3: when you're talking about the minor league this. I've had

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Speaker 3: this idea for the last couple of years when it

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Speaker 3: comes to developing pitchers in the minor leagues.

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Speaker 4: Why can't you just.

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Speaker 3: Really draft and develop a group that have more pitchability,

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Speaker 3: and then just draft and develop a group that has

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Speaker 3: more stuff. I think you have to like balance it

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Speaker 3: out to the point where you just don't go stuff

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Speaker 3: all the time. With the velocity, the velocity training, the

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00:17:44,718 --> 00:17:48,918
Speaker 3: high amps, RPMs and bullpens, et cetera. There's a group

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00:17:48,958 --> 00:17:51,318
Speaker 3: that maybe that app applies to. But then you've got

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Speaker 3: to get a bunch of guys, teach them how to pitch,

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00:17:53,918 --> 00:17:56,318
Speaker 3: teach them how to pitch, encourage this group this like

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Speaker 3: I would say the range would be, I don't know,

387
00:17:57,878 --> 00:18:00,838
Speaker 3: anywhere eighty nine to ninety three ninety four. I mean,

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Speaker 3: when I started scouting in the mid eighties early eighties,

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Speaker 3: average velocity fastball, believe it or not, was eighty eight

390
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Speaker 3: miles an hour on a ray gun. On a jugs

391
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Speaker 3: gun an eighty five miles an hour on a ray gun.

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Speaker 3: The difference was that one measured at home plate, the

393
00:18:13,878 --> 00:18:15,878
Speaker 3: other one measured out of the pitcher's hands. It was

394
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Speaker 3: the same information, but it just it just popped up differently.

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Speaker 4: So eighty eight so I could give a fifty.

396
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Speaker 3: Grade to an eighty eight mile an hour fastball off

397
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Speaker 3: my ygun might excuse me my speed gun.

398
00:18:25,998 --> 00:18:26,638
Speaker 4: Back in the day.

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Speaker 3: So now I would say that average is probably about

400
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Speaker 3: ninety one, ninety two, ninety two point five something like.

401
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Speaker 4: That in that area.

402
00:18:33,198 --> 00:18:35,878
Speaker 3: So if you do that and you really teach a

403
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Speaker 3: legitimate I think, a legitimate change up and a legitimate

404
00:18:38,718 --> 00:18:41,638
Speaker 3: legitimate curveball, That's where I would start with all this

405
00:18:41,718 --> 00:18:45,118
Speaker 3: with my young pitchers. So I'd have this pitchability group,

406
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Speaker 3: and then I would have my stuff group, which I

407
00:18:46,718 --> 00:18:50,398
Speaker 3: probably would want to delegate or designate for bullpen. I

408
00:18:50,398 --> 00:18:52,838
Speaker 3: would probably want that where I want more guys with

409
00:18:52,918 --> 00:18:56,038
Speaker 3: pitchability pitching the first couple of several innings of the

410
00:18:56,078 --> 00:18:58,838
Speaker 3: game for me, Guys that I could teach and could

411
00:18:58,918 --> 00:19:00,558
Speaker 3: learn how to get through that third time through the

412
00:19:00,958 --> 00:19:03,718
Speaker 3: batdingguarter because they're not expending all their energy earlier in

413
00:19:03,758 --> 00:19:06,518
Speaker 3: the game. I I'd love to see that happen, like

414
00:19:06,558 --> 00:19:08,718
Speaker 3: to see somebody step out there and do that. Really

415
00:19:08,758 --> 00:19:11,438
Speaker 3: try to develop in two different ways. Yeah, I want

416
00:19:11,518 --> 00:19:13,798
Speaker 3: to strike out. I want my bullpen guys to come in,

417
00:19:14,158 --> 00:19:15,558
Speaker 3: run around second and third.

418
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Speaker 4: One out. It's the ladder part of the game.

419
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Speaker 3: I want that dude that could come out, Jake McGee,

420
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Speaker 3: who I know could come out and ride that high

421
00:19:22,438 --> 00:19:25,078
Speaker 3: fastball to a right handed hitter even though he's left

422
00:19:25,078 --> 00:19:26,318
Speaker 3: ten and they have no chance.

423
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Speaker 4: I want that guy absolutely. But then I want James Shields.

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Speaker 3: He's gonna throw hundred and eight hundred and ten hundred

425
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Speaker 3: and fifteen pitches and he's gonna pitch with like a

426
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Speaker 3: ninety two min hour fastball with a tremendous change up,

427
00:19:37,878 --> 00:19:40,158
Speaker 3: a developed curveball that he used to encourage him to

428
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Speaker 3: throw all the time that he would not throw often

429
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Speaker 3: enough for me. Then he got into the cutter, which

430
00:19:44,838 --> 00:19:46,958
Speaker 3: I didn't like nearly as much, but nevertheless he knew

431
00:19:46,998 --> 00:19:51,398
Speaker 3: how to pitch. So philosophically, create your philosophy. If you,

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Speaker 3: if somebody were to create the philosophy organizationally, and then

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Speaker 3: you go out and fulfill it, you're gonna get what

434
00:19:56,238 --> 00:19:59,478
Speaker 3: you what you asked for, a practice for, drafted for.

435
00:19:59,798 --> 00:20:02,478
Speaker 3: But if you just choose to go one route only,

436
00:20:03,078 --> 00:20:03,838
Speaker 3: that's not progress.

437
00:20:03,958 --> 00:20:06,318
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, just a couple of numbers for you. The

438
00:20:06,358 --> 00:20:08,958
Speaker 2: average velocity now to foreseen fastball in the big leagues

439
00:20:08,998 --> 00:20:11,838
Speaker 2: is ninety four miles an hour two thousand and eight,

440
00:20:11,878 --> 00:20:15,958
Speaker 2: it was ninety one the Perfect Game National Showcase. So

441
00:20:15,998 --> 00:20:18,078
Speaker 2: that's your best high school arms. You show up at

442
00:20:18,078 --> 00:20:21,118
Speaker 2: these showcases. Right. If you go back to the five

443
00:20:21,198 --> 00:20:24,118
Speaker 2: years between fourteen and nineteen, twenty fourteen and twenty nineteen,

444
00:20:24,158 --> 00:20:27,038
Speaker 2: there was an average of five point six guys, this

445
00:20:27,118 --> 00:20:29,278
Speaker 2: is high schoolers who could hit ninety five on the

446
00:20:29,278 --> 00:20:33,598
Speaker 2: gun at these showcases. Last year there were thirty six.

447
00:20:34,998 --> 00:20:37,518
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just crazy in a short period of time.

448
00:20:37,838 --> 00:20:40,678
Speaker 2: So we know velocity is going up. It's being taught everywhere.

449
00:20:40,998 --> 00:20:43,478
Speaker 2: Let me give you three things, Joe to me that

450
00:20:43,678 --> 00:20:45,798
Speaker 2: to me, we're new. As I said, a lot of

451
00:20:45,798 --> 00:20:48,718
Speaker 2: this was just confirming what we know. Okay, a couple

452
00:20:48,758 --> 00:20:51,598
Speaker 2: of things stood out for me as being new. Number one,

453
00:20:51,878 --> 00:20:54,998
Speaker 2: March is the most dangerous time of year for pitchers.

454
00:20:55,918 --> 00:20:58,318
Speaker 2: Looking at the numbers and the players placed on the

455
00:20:58,358 --> 00:21:03,638
Speaker 2: IL pitchers, it's gone up since twenty seventeen eighty two percent.

456
00:21:04,798 --> 00:21:08,598
Speaker 2: Once you get to the after opening day, the rate

457
00:21:08,678 --> 00:21:11,918
Speaker 2: actually has gone down the last three years. Something is

458
00:21:11,998 --> 00:21:15,798
Speaker 2: happening recently where players are coming to camp and they're

459
00:21:15,798 --> 00:21:18,478
Speaker 2: blowing out. And one of the theories in this report,

460
00:21:18,598 --> 00:21:21,318
Speaker 2: and this is not for me. This is from orthopedic surgeons,

461
00:21:22,118 --> 00:21:25,878
Speaker 2: is that the desire to chase velocity and spin in

462
00:21:25,958 --> 00:21:30,518
Speaker 2: the off season is stressing arms. And the ramp up

463
00:21:30,558 --> 00:21:33,878
Speaker 2: to spring training is greater than it was before, and

464
00:21:33,918 --> 00:21:36,078
Speaker 2: they're doing everything in spring training as they would in

465
00:21:36,078 --> 00:21:38,558
Speaker 2: the middle of the season in terms of max effort,

466
00:21:39,158 --> 00:21:42,158
Speaker 2: and that's why we're seeing March is the most dangerous

467
00:21:42,198 --> 00:21:44,318
Speaker 2: time of year for shoulders and elbows.

468
00:21:44,718 --> 00:21:47,678
Speaker 3: Well, truly, it was a way more conservative method in

469
00:21:47,718 --> 00:21:50,238
Speaker 3: the off season guys. That's where guys would really be

470
00:21:50,278 --> 00:21:52,918
Speaker 3: careful with how much they threw, when they threw, and

471
00:21:53,558 --> 00:21:57,878
Speaker 3: they would gradually build into these higher velocity things. Number

472
00:21:57,918 --> 00:21:59,678
Speaker 3: of times on the mount how long did they throw

473
00:21:59,718 --> 00:22:02,358
Speaker 3: off a flat ground, even right down to their long

474
00:22:02,398 --> 00:22:04,758
Speaker 3: toss programs, which I really leaven. I don't even know

475
00:22:04,878 --> 00:22:08,398
Speaker 3: to what extent they're emphasized anymore, but I've always thought,

476
00:22:08,398 --> 00:22:10,638
Speaker 3: if you want to prove your arm strength, just throw

477
00:22:10,678 --> 00:22:12,878
Speaker 3: the ball far. Mark Langston was one of the best

478
00:22:12,918 --> 00:22:15,998
Speaker 3: I've ever seen at that, so yeah, I could. I

479
00:22:16,038 --> 00:22:20,358
Speaker 3: don't know that for I recollecting more recently. You're right

480
00:22:20,478 --> 00:22:22,398
Speaker 3: in regards to like, you know, the drive lines and

481
00:22:22,438 --> 00:22:24,718
Speaker 3: whatever guys are paying money to go to these places,

482
00:22:24,718 --> 00:22:27,038
Speaker 3: and of course you see these drills where they take

483
00:22:27,078 --> 00:22:28,598
Speaker 3: a hop skip and throw the ball as hard as

484
00:22:28,598 --> 00:22:29,598
Speaker 3: they can into a net.

485
00:22:30,278 --> 00:22:30,838
Speaker 4: And then.

486
00:22:32,278 --> 00:22:35,198
Speaker 3: Compared to my god, like I said, guys will take

487
00:22:35,238 --> 00:22:37,878
Speaker 3: a couple of months off, they start training, like you know,

488
00:22:37,998 --> 00:22:41,398
Speaker 3: running or lifting weights or do something stretching, but then

489
00:22:41,438 --> 00:22:44,158
Speaker 3: they start building into their throwing gradually. And you really

490
00:22:44,198 --> 00:22:47,518
Speaker 3: were very cautious in spring training. How you got to

491
00:22:47,558 --> 00:22:50,718
Speaker 3: that point where they were ready to pitch five innings

492
00:22:50,878 --> 00:22:53,718
Speaker 3: as a starter in a minor even a minor league

493
00:22:53,758 --> 00:22:58,518
Speaker 3: and major league game. So the training has dramatically changed.

494
00:22:58,558 --> 00:23:01,238
Speaker 3: And absolutely I can see then to your other point,

495
00:23:01,438 --> 00:23:03,558
Speaker 3: you're talking about velocity among high school guys.

496
00:23:03,558 --> 00:23:04,838
Speaker 4: My god, back when.

497
00:23:04,638 --> 00:23:06,798
Speaker 3: I had scouted too, there's rare that you saw a

498
00:23:06,878 --> 00:23:10,198
Speaker 3: kid throw even ninety plus out of high school back

499
00:23:10,238 --> 00:23:12,598
Speaker 3: in the day. And then if you saw a kid

500
00:23:12,638 --> 00:23:14,958
Speaker 3: with a really good breaking ball, and maybe his velocity

501
00:23:14,998 --> 00:23:17,438
Speaker 3: might have been like eighty four eighty five, let's say

502
00:23:17,518 --> 00:23:19,198
Speaker 3: eighty eight being average at that time, but if he

503
00:23:19,238 --> 00:23:22,358
Speaker 3: had good spin on a breaking ball, that was easier

504
00:23:22,358 --> 00:23:24,638
Speaker 3: to project that this guy's going to improve his fastball

505
00:23:24,758 --> 00:23:26,958
Speaker 3: just based on his ability to spin it. So like

506
00:23:27,038 --> 00:23:29,958
Speaker 3: Dwayne Dwayne Wood and Scott at Dwayne Word had a

507
00:23:29,958 --> 00:23:32,878
Speaker 3: great arm with the Blue Jays in New Mexico. And

508
00:23:32,878 --> 00:23:34,358
Speaker 3: this dude was one of the few that was throwing

509
00:23:34,358 --> 00:23:36,878
Speaker 3: that high number out of high school. He was really

510
00:23:37,318 --> 00:23:40,198
Speaker 3: and Charlie Kerfield was another one. But other guys that

511
00:23:40,278 --> 00:23:43,318
Speaker 3: you would scout if they could just spin it, if

512
00:23:43,358 --> 00:23:45,798
Speaker 3: they could just spin it, you thought their fastball would

513
00:23:45,798 --> 00:23:46,198
Speaker 3: get better.

514
00:23:46,878 --> 00:23:50,478
Speaker 2: Speaking in fastballs number two, for me, this struck me

515
00:23:50,678 --> 00:23:55,358
Speaker 2: as a new novel identifying and defying the maximum effort.

516
00:23:55,478 --> 00:23:58,078
Speaker 2: And they did this by looking at the standard deviation

517
00:23:58,198 --> 00:24:01,438
Speaker 2: of fastballs. Okay, so what they found is over the

518
00:24:01,518 --> 00:24:04,958
Speaker 2: last seven years, that standard deviation keeps going down. It's

519
00:24:04,998 --> 00:24:07,718
Speaker 2: now at about one point oh six. I think it

520
00:24:07,758 --> 00:24:09,758
Speaker 2: is where you're getting closer to one. So if you

521
00:24:09,798 --> 00:24:13,118
Speaker 2: got to a one standard deviation, that basically you're throwing

522
00:24:13,118 --> 00:24:16,118
Speaker 2: the same way all the time, so that standard deviation

523
00:24:16,438 --> 00:24:19,518
Speaker 2: is dropping. What that tells you is there's no modulation,

524
00:24:19,638 --> 00:24:23,638
Speaker 2: there's no adding and subtracting. That's putting an identifier on

525
00:24:23,678 --> 00:24:28,678
Speaker 2: this maximum effort all pitches, all the time. Mentality that's happening,

526
00:24:28,918 --> 00:24:32,598
Speaker 2: and actually the lowest closer to one the standard deviation

527
00:24:32,678 --> 00:24:35,438
Speaker 2: happened in twenty twenty. I think about twenty twenty. That

528
00:24:35,558 --> 00:24:38,238
Speaker 2: was a sixty game season short ramp up to the

529
00:24:38,278 --> 00:24:42,358
Speaker 2: season expanded rosters, guys were pitching even shorter. So there's

530
00:24:42,398 --> 00:24:46,958
Speaker 2: a direct correlation between asking pitchers to pitch less and

531
00:24:47,478 --> 00:24:51,678
Speaker 2: maximum effort going into each pitch. They've identified that we

532
00:24:51,718 --> 00:24:54,318
Speaker 2: can measure that guys are maxing out more than they

533
00:24:54,358 --> 00:24:54,638
Speaker 2: ever have.

534
00:24:55,038 --> 00:24:56,678
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just watching it.

535
00:24:56,718 --> 00:24:58,598
Speaker 3: I mean that would be something that was a scouting

536
00:24:58,678 --> 00:25:00,238
Speaker 3: term even back in the day too.

537
00:25:00,398 --> 00:25:01,918
Speaker 4: Is he's a max effort guy.

538
00:25:02,358 --> 00:25:05,118
Speaker 3: I mean he would just bump and and like used

539
00:25:05,158 --> 00:25:07,158
Speaker 3: it from his toes to the hair on his head.

540
00:25:07,158 --> 00:25:09,358
Speaker 3: He would absolutely grind to throw that ball as hard

541
00:25:09,398 --> 00:25:12,638
Speaker 3: as he could. And that was always undesirable actually, because

542
00:25:12,638 --> 00:25:14,998
Speaker 3: you always felt as though something bad was going to

543
00:25:15,038 --> 00:25:17,958
Speaker 3: happen with that arm. As a guy through during the

544
00:25:17,998 --> 00:25:21,558
Speaker 3: course of the year. Easy gas was always a wonderful term.

545
00:25:21,638 --> 00:25:23,838
Speaker 3: Guys that did it easily that the ball just came

546
00:25:23,838 --> 00:25:26,838
Speaker 3: out of the hands so well that the delivery was

547
00:25:26,878 --> 00:25:29,358
Speaker 3: timed out well, the front foot of the arm arriving

548
00:25:29,438 --> 00:25:32,678
Speaker 3: at the same point, and then when he concluded his

549
00:25:32,838 --> 00:25:35,838
Speaker 3: chest at the plate, his head never moved and his

550
00:25:35,918 --> 00:25:38,678
Speaker 3: backfoot would turn over and he would get in a

551
00:25:38,678 --> 00:25:41,638
Speaker 3: good fielding position kind of when he concluded his throat.

552
00:25:41,718 --> 00:25:44,198
Speaker 3: That was like what you looked for, and you looked

553
00:25:44,238 --> 00:25:47,678
Speaker 3: how the arm worked behind the picture also regarding what

554
00:25:47,758 --> 00:25:49,958
Speaker 3: it did. How long the stroke was in the back

555
00:25:50,518 --> 00:25:52,398
Speaker 3: for me, didn't necessarily have to be long, because it

556
00:25:52,438 --> 00:25:54,478
Speaker 3: was some really good short armors back there too.

557
00:25:55,038 --> 00:25:56,998
Speaker 4: But it was just a matter of how.

558
00:25:56,878 --> 00:26:00,398
Speaker 3: Fluid and easy that armstroke was and how much they

559
00:26:00,478 --> 00:26:02,958
Speaker 3: They really like the guys that really grunt to throw,

560
00:26:02,998 --> 00:26:04,758
Speaker 3: and there's still a couple of the left. I mean,

561
00:26:04,918 --> 00:26:07,398
Speaker 3: some have been successful, but all of that was something

562
00:26:07,438 --> 00:26:11,198
Speaker 3: that we measured and we were kind of like, didn't

563
00:26:11,318 --> 00:26:13,638
Speaker 3: like the max effort guys we liked. We always liked

564
00:26:13,678 --> 00:26:16,678
Speaker 3: the guys that did it more easily and the great

565
00:26:16,798 --> 00:26:19,358
Speaker 3: phrases to throw some easy gas with the bull just

566
00:26:19,398 --> 00:26:22,158
Speaker 3: jumps out of your hand, for everything is timed out well.

567
00:26:22,198 --> 00:26:25,358
Speaker 3: But I think as you encourage more velocity, you're going

568
00:26:25,438 --> 00:26:27,278
Speaker 3: to get more of the max separate guys and you're

569
00:26:27,278 --> 00:26:29,038
Speaker 3: going to come out of deliveries. And that was always

570
00:26:29,118 --> 00:26:31,998
Speaker 3: my thing with my starters. If I thought they were

571
00:26:32,038 --> 00:26:33,798
Speaker 3: coming out of the delivery later, and again when you

572
00:26:33,798 --> 00:26:36,158
Speaker 3: try to manufacture velocity. That was something they got from

573
00:26:36,238 --> 00:26:38,718
Speaker 3: Joe Coleman that when you have to be careful, when

574
00:26:38,758 --> 00:26:41,878
Speaker 3: guys start trying to manufacture able velocity as opposed to

575
00:26:41,918 --> 00:26:45,598
Speaker 3: just letting velocity happen, that's when things normally broke down

576
00:26:45,638 --> 00:26:46,758
Speaker 3: and command left them.

577
00:26:47,118 --> 00:26:50,438
Speaker 2: Point number three that I found new or at least interesting,

578
00:26:50,838 --> 00:26:53,718
Speaker 2: And this is no offense to the former players. They

579
00:26:53,758 --> 00:26:57,358
Speaker 2: talked to some of the pitching coaches, the pitching coordinators,

580
00:26:57,358 --> 00:27:01,678
Speaker 2: they talked to guys who played the game. I put

581
00:27:01,718 --> 00:27:04,118
Speaker 2: a lot more faith when it comes to this talking

582
00:27:04,118 --> 00:27:07,078
Speaker 2: about injuries in the medical people, the team trainers, and

583
00:27:07,158 --> 00:27:10,438
Speaker 2: especially the orthopedic surgeons. That's where I want my information

584
00:27:10,478 --> 00:27:13,078
Speaker 2: because the game is so different. We're not going back

585
00:27:13,198 --> 00:27:15,958
Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty six because we have so many ways

586
00:27:15,998 --> 00:27:18,558
Speaker 2: to train guys and so much more knowledge about how

587
00:27:18,558 --> 00:27:20,118
Speaker 2: the body works. So I want to listen to the

588
00:27:20,198 --> 00:27:22,438
Speaker 2: orthopedic surgeons, and what they said was kind of scary

589
00:27:22,478 --> 00:27:26,478
Speaker 2: to me that, let's face it, we just talked about velocity, Joe,

590
00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:28,798
Speaker 2: but we know that the use of fastballs actually keeps

591
00:27:28,798 --> 00:27:31,438
Speaker 2: going down to a record low less than half of

592
00:27:31,478 --> 00:27:33,638
Speaker 2: the pitches now are fastballs and major league baseball. So

593
00:27:33,718 --> 00:27:37,158
Speaker 2: spin is up? Why spin up? Because everybody's chasing spin,

594
00:27:37,198 --> 00:27:39,918
Speaker 2: and they're chasing the shape of the pitches. So there's

595
00:27:39,918 --> 00:27:42,558
Speaker 2: a whole lot more of grip's strength that's in play.

596
00:27:42,598 --> 00:27:45,278
Speaker 2: There's a whole lot more of supernation and pronation, whatever

597
00:27:45,318 --> 00:27:49,358
Speaker 2: you have to do, arm angles, dropping the sweeper becoming

598
00:27:49,358 --> 00:27:53,238
Speaker 2: such a popular pitch. And what the orthopedic has said is,

599
00:27:53,318 --> 00:27:56,158
Speaker 2: and this is not more than one, they're seeing shoulder

600
00:27:56,198 --> 00:28:00,038
Speaker 2: injuries and rib cage injuries like they've never seen before.

601
00:28:00,078 --> 00:28:03,398
Speaker 2: We're talking about fractured ribs throwing a baseball. We're talking

602
00:28:03,398 --> 00:28:07,398
Speaker 2: about tear of the terrorist muscle. We're talking about scap injuries.

603
00:28:07,798 --> 00:28:11,838
Speaker 2: We're talking about the capsule, the muscles that really stabilize

604
00:28:11,838 --> 00:28:15,398
Speaker 2: the capsule of the shoulder now that are tearing and breaking.

605
00:28:15,678 --> 00:28:18,518
Speaker 2: And the orthopedis are saying this is because the way

606
00:28:18,598 --> 00:28:23,398
Speaker 2: people are chasing pure stuff, not just velocity, that I

607
00:28:23,438 --> 00:28:26,238
Speaker 2: found especially interesting makes sense.

608
00:28:27,278 --> 00:28:30,398
Speaker 3: One of the tenants in the past was always to

609
00:28:30,438 --> 00:28:31,998
Speaker 3: develop fastball command first.

610
00:28:32,038 --> 00:28:34,438
Speaker 4: I mean, you really did not want to move one of.

611
00:28:34,438 --> 00:28:37,438
Speaker 3: Your minor league pitchers at all until they really learn

612
00:28:37,518 --> 00:28:39,878
Speaker 3: how to develop command. Of their fastball, because that was

613
00:28:39,918 --> 00:28:43,198
Speaker 3: the one pitch that everything always worked off of. And

614
00:28:43,238 --> 00:28:45,918
Speaker 3: when you had a guy that really knew could throw

615
00:28:45,958 --> 00:28:47,558
Speaker 3: a strike when he wanted to throw a strike. To me,

616
00:28:47,598 --> 00:28:49,558
Speaker 3: that was always a definition of a major league picture

617
00:28:50,078 --> 00:28:51,838
Speaker 3: was he could throw his fastball for a strike when

618
00:28:51,878 --> 00:28:53,598
Speaker 3: he wanted to. There's times you don't want to, you

619
00:28:53,598 --> 00:28:55,958
Speaker 3: wanted to be off, to play whatever, but to develop

620
00:28:56,038 --> 00:28:59,758
Speaker 3: fastball command first. And when you do develop fastball command

621
00:28:59,798 --> 00:29:02,918
Speaker 3: first and know where your fastball is going, then that's

622
00:29:02,998 --> 00:29:04,518
Speaker 3: the kind of guy that I I think you can't

623
00:29:04,518 --> 00:29:06,878
Speaker 3: pitch the third time to the batting order and can

624
00:29:06,998 --> 00:29:09,918
Speaker 3: throw one hundred pitches more easily. And again going back

625
00:29:09,998 --> 00:29:12,878
Speaker 3: to the stress test of putting on the arm so

626
00:29:13,038 --> 00:29:15,438
Speaker 3: much by all the different contortions that we're asking the

627
00:29:15,478 --> 00:29:19,038
Speaker 3: body to do, I'd love to see a regeneration of

628
00:29:19,078 --> 00:29:20,878
Speaker 3: that and this and the orthopedic guys know what they're

629
00:29:20,918 --> 00:29:23,678
Speaker 3: talking about, but also so does Marcel Latchman. You know,

630
00:29:23,798 --> 00:29:27,638
Speaker 3: guys that have been around a long time, really outstanding,

631
00:29:27,758 --> 00:29:31,318
Speaker 3: established pitching coaches. I would love to see worphing together

632
00:29:31,438 --> 00:29:34,278
Speaker 3: of some of the guys that are still with us

633
00:29:34,878 --> 00:29:37,918
Speaker 3: that taught pitchers for so many years and were so

634
00:29:37,958 --> 00:29:40,718
Speaker 3: successful on so many different levels, with so many different.

635
00:29:40,518 --> 00:29:40,958
Speaker 4: Kinds of guys.

636
00:29:40,958 --> 00:29:43,838
Speaker 3: Why would you not want to bring together the science

637
00:29:43,878 --> 00:29:46,558
Speaker 3: of the whole thing and the actual practical application that

638
00:29:46,638 --> 00:29:49,198
Speaker 3: a lot of these pitching coaches were able to afford.

639
00:29:49,238 --> 00:29:50,358
Speaker 4: I mean, everybody's talking.

640
00:29:50,158 --> 00:29:53,558
Speaker 3: About brett Strom, right, Strowoery's been around for one hundred years,

641
00:29:53,958 --> 00:29:56,678
Speaker 3: so guys like that. I'd like to see what they

642
00:29:56,718 --> 00:29:59,958
Speaker 3: have to say and overlay that with what all the

643
00:29:59,998 --> 00:30:03,318
Speaker 3: scientific or medical communities talking about. Because I'm telling you,

644
00:30:03,478 --> 00:30:08,678
Speaker 3: eyeball matter, field matters, common sense matters. So I don't

645
00:30:08,678 --> 00:30:10,478
Speaker 3: know how much of that is being applied to this,

646
00:30:10,558 --> 00:30:12,518
Speaker 3: but I'd love to see because when it comes down

647
00:30:12,518 --> 00:30:15,278
Speaker 3: to it, we have been so taught to just believe

648
00:30:15,358 --> 00:30:18,998
Speaker 3: numbers and believe the science only, and we've been taught

649
00:30:19,038 --> 00:30:21,598
Speaker 3: to not believe experience and eyeballs anymore.

650
00:30:21,798 --> 00:30:22,998
Speaker 4: I'd like to see it over late.

651
00:30:23,278 --> 00:30:25,438
Speaker 2: Well, the bottom line is you know this, Joe. The

652
00:30:25,518 --> 00:30:28,558
Speaker 2: incentives are set up now to have this system in place,

653
00:30:28,958 --> 00:30:31,638
Speaker 2: and if I'm a pitcher, I realize what the risks are.

654
00:30:31,958 --> 00:30:34,478
Speaker 2: I see people, you know, blowing out their elbows.

655
00:30:34,598 --> 00:30:34,998
Speaker 4: I get it.

656
00:30:35,038 --> 00:30:37,638
Speaker 2: But I'm signing up for it because I need to

657
00:30:37,678 --> 00:30:41,238
Speaker 2: throw hard because hard harder is better, Throwing faster is better,

658
00:30:41,278 --> 00:30:43,438
Speaker 2: Spinning the ball is better. All the numbers show that,

659
00:30:43,478 --> 00:30:47,918
Speaker 2: so performance and salary all are incentivized advising pictures and

660
00:30:47,958 --> 00:30:50,358
Speaker 2: the system, the way clubs use pictures is all set

661
00:30:50,438 --> 00:30:54,318
Speaker 2: up for this to be sustainable. I'm not saying sustainable

662
00:30:54,318 --> 00:30:56,958
Speaker 2: in terms of health, but I don't see it change

663
00:30:56,998 --> 00:30:58,758
Speaker 2: because this is the way the system is set up.

664
00:30:59,038 --> 00:31:01,678
Speaker 2: So the recommendation from this report is to find a

665
00:31:01,718 --> 00:31:06,158
Speaker 2: way basically to modulate pitching. And maybe this report says

666
00:31:06,238 --> 00:31:07,878
Speaker 2: one way to do that, and it might be the

667
00:31:07,878 --> 00:31:12,118
Speaker 2: only way is to start looking at roster rules and

668
00:31:12,198 --> 00:31:18,318
Speaker 2: playing rules to incentivize teams and pitchers to modulate their pitching. Now,

669
00:31:18,318 --> 00:31:20,198
Speaker 2: that could be as simple as dropping the number of

670
00:31:20,278 --> 00:31:23,598
Speaker 2: pitchers on a roster. You drop that to eleven. It

671
00:31:23,678 --> 00:31:27,118
Speaker 2: could be that to get away from this roster churn,

672
00:31:27,198 --> 00:31:29,598
Speaker 2: because there's so many guys now who throw over nineties

673
00:31:29,638 --> 00:31:31,918
Speaker 2: that you know, guys with options are going back and

674
00:31:31,958 --> 00:31:33,678
Speaker 2: forth to drop of a hat. Soon as they pitch

675
00:31:33,758 --> 00:31:35,918
Speaker 2: two innings and they can't pitch for another couple of days,

676
00:31:35,918 --> 00:31:37,758
Speaker 2: they go down to the minors. Somebody else comes up

677
00:31:38,398 --> 00:31:41,158
Speaker 2: put some more rules on keeping guys down to the minors.

678
00:31:41,158 --> 00:31:43,678
Speaker 2: If you're sending them down the penalties like if you

679
00:31:43,718 --> 00:31:46,518
Speaker 2: take your starter out before the fifth inning, you lose

680
00:31:46,558 --> 00:31:50,198
Speaker 2: your DH. There was some talk, and people get carried

681
00:31:50,198 --> 00:31:52,198
Speaker 2: away because anytime you bring up an idea, they think

682
00:31:52,198 --> 00:31:54,918
Speaker 2: it's going to be implemented. Having a pitch right, you

683
00:31:54,998 --> 00:31:57,278
Speaker 2: must pitch five or six innings minimum in a game.

684
00:31:57,478 --> 00:32:00,358
Speaker 2: That's not happening. But this is the conversations that are

685
00:32:00,358 --> 00:32:03,118
Speaker 2: happening that the way the game is set up right now,

686
00:32:03,158 --> 00:32:06,598
Speaker 2: things are not going to change unless there are structural

687
00:32:06,718 --> 00:32:09,798
Speaker 2: changes to the system of how baseball is played. What

688
00:32:09,838 --> 00:32:10,558
Speaker 2: do you think about that?

689
00:32:11,038 --> 00:32:14,438
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm you know, I'm just I love the organic

690
00:32:14,518 --> 00:32:17,638
Speaker 3: changes that I don't like. I don't like legislation in

691
00:32:17,718 --> 00:32:20,478
Speaker 3: order to attempt to change this thing. And again, the

692
00:32:20,518 --> 00:32:22,358
Speaker 3: game's been pretty darn good for a long time. We're

693
00:32:22,398 --> 00:32:24,758
Speaker 3: talking about one specific problem right now. Then you're going

694
00:32:24,798 --> 00:32:27,838
Speaker 3: to all of a sudden change the format completely. I

695
00:32:27,838 --> 00:32:29,758
Speaker 3: don't like it, frankly, I don't.

696
00:32:29,838 --> 00:32:33,478
Speaker 2: I think I can agree Joe that if nothing changes

697
00:32:34,078 --> 00:32:38,678
Speaker 2: this system, it's actually getting exaggerated. Pictures are pitching less

698
00:32:38,678 --> 00:32:40,838
Speaker 2: and less and less, and they're using more and more

699
00:32:40,878 --> 00:32:43,598
Speaker 2: pictures in the course of the season, and batting average is

700
00:32:43,638 --> 00:32:45,118
Speaker 2: going down and strikeouts are going up.

701
00:32:45,318 --> 00:32:47,158
Speaker 4: That's looking to change philosophy.

702
00:32:47,598 --> 00:32:49,438
Speaker 3: It really comes down to what we're teaching and how

703
00:32:49,438 --> 00:32:52,038
Speaker 3: we're teaching in and what the expectations are of those teachings.

704
00:32:52,438 --> 00:32:54,598
Speaker 3: If you just want swing and miss only, if that's

705
00:32:54,638 --> 00:32:56,638
Speaker 3: what the front office wants, then yeah, you're going to

706
00:32:56,678 --> 00:33:00,558
Speaker 3: probably have to do some things in order to mitigate,

707
00:33:00,598 --> 00:33:03,238
Speaker 3: ameliorate whatever the word is right that you want to do.

708
00:33:03,318 --> 00:33:05,958
Speaker 3: But I listen, there's just the way it's being taught.

709
00:33:05,958 --> 00:33:08,638
Speaker 3: We've just talked about that and what's being asked of

710
00:33:08,678 --> 00:33:11,198
Speaker 3: these pictures to do, which is basically impossible if you're

711
00:33:11,198 --> 00:33:14,318
Speaker 3: a human being. That's that's the biggest part of the problem.

712
00:33:14,598 --> 00:33:18,598
Speaker 3: I mean, you normally have a lot of really good information.

713
00:33:19,038 --> 00:33:21,638
Speaker 3: Is there like a study done on the longevity of

714
00:33:21,678 --> 00:33:24,198
Speaker 3: a major league picture, like how many years in the

715
00:33:24,238 --> 00:33:26,518
Speaker 3: big leagues now compared to like say twenty years ago.

716
00:33:27,198 --> 00:33:29,798
Speaker 3: Just how many years there's an average major league picture

717
00:33:29,838 --> 00:33:32,278
Speaker 3: pitching the big leagues now compared to them. I'm just

718
00:33:32,318 --> 00:33:35,798
Speaker 3: curious about that and how the injury plays into that,

719
00:33:35,838 --> 00:33:38,558
Speaker 3: because back in the day too, Guys wouldn't even say anything.

720
00:33:38,638 --> 00:33:41,878
Speaker 3: They wouldn't say that there arm hurts because they knew

721
00:33:41,918 --> 00:33:44,318
Speaker 3: they're going to be replaced. There was such a glut

722
00:33:44,358 --> 00:33:47,278
Speaker 3: of minor league players and really good ones that were

723
00:33:47,318 --> 00:33:49,758
Speaker 3: willing to or they're willing to take your place. I

724
00:33:49,838 --> 00:33:52,118
Speaker 3: prefer a paradigm shift in philosophy.

725
00:33:52,198 --> 00:33:52,798
Speaker 4: That's what I.

726
00:33:52,718 --> 00:33:55,518
Speaker 2: Prefer, and this is what baseball prefers that too, Joe.

727
00:33:55,558 --> 00:33:57,598
Speaker 2: It's a matter of how you get there, and I

728
00:33:57,638 --> 00:34:00,518
Speaker 2: think that's the crux of the matter is it's not

729
00:34:00,518 --> 00:34:03,198
Speaker 2: going to get there organically, because, as I just said,

730
00:34:04,118 --> 00:34:06,558
Speaker 2: on the amateur level, if you don't throw ninety as

731
00:34:06,598 --> 00:34:08,918
Speaker 2: high school kid, you're not getting colleges to look at you.

732
00:34:08,958 --> 00:34:11,878
Speaker 2: If you're fifteen and you're getting scouted in Latin America,

733
00:34:12,278 --> 00:34:14,198
Speaker 2: you have to throw above ninety or else you're not

734
00:34:14,198 --> 00:34:14,958
Speaker 2: going to get signed.

735
00:34:15,118 --> 00:34:18,558
Speaker 3: Doesn't it have to occur individually within organizations, Like who's

736
00:34:18,558 --> 00:34:20,478
Speaker 3: the first organization going to say, listen, we're going to

737
00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:23,918
Speaker 3: do this. It's such a copycat thing. I mean, we've really,

738
00:34:24,318 --> 00:34:26,878
Speaker 3: I think, devolved into the sameness. And I've talked about

739
00:34:26,878 --> 00:34:29,118
Speaker 3: this before. Everybody wants to be like everybody else. Even

740
00:34:29,158 --> 00:34:31,678
Speaker 3: back down to the study, Why didn't the Yankees have

741
00:34:31,718 --> 00:34:34,238
Speaker 3: a specific study or the Daughters have a specific study,

742
00:34:34,318 --> 00:34:37,158
Speaker 3: or the Mariners have a specific study just to suit

743
00:34:37,198 --> 00:34:39,478
Speaker 3: their needs and what they think or believe.

744
00:34:39,518 --> 00:34:42,238
Speaker 2: It's always this you need a large sample size, though,

745
00:34:42,278 --> 00:34:44,758
Speaker 2: I mean, they have access to the whole cross section

746
00:34:44,838 --> 00:34:47,918
Speaker 2: of people to find this problem. So I'd rather have

747
00:34:47,958 --> 00:34:51,238
Speaker 2: that information that somebody working in a silo in one organization. Now,

748
00:34:51,238 --> 00:34:53,878
Speaker 2: what you do with it should be individualized. But I

749
00:34:53,958 --> 00:34:56,598
Speaker 2: like the fact that they didn't go had the lens

750
00:34:56,678 --> 00:34:58,358
Speaker 2: really wide open to get this info.

751
00:34:58,638 --> 00:35:00,518
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I'm not a post of that. But

752
00:35:00,678 --> 00:35:02,838
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the Mariners have to

753
00:35:02,878 --> 00:35:04,718
Speaker 3: make up their own minds, the Yankees have to make

754
00:35:04,798 --> 00:35:06,838
Speaker 3: up their own minds. Everybody got to make it, but

755
00:35:06,878 --> 00:35:09,278
Speaker 3: nobody does. Nobody makes up their own minds anymore. Becomes

756
00:35:09,278 --> 00:35:11,158
Speaker 3: this group think kind of a thing. And I think

757
00:35:11,238 --> 00:35:13,118
Speaker 3: that's where it really breaks down. Somebody's gonna have to

758
00:35:13,158 --> 00:35:16,358
Speaker 3: have the courage to say this hasn't worked. I know

759
00:35:16,398 --> 00:35:17,878
Speaker 3: what everybody else is saying, but we're going to do

760
00:35:17,918 --> 00:35:20,478
Speaker 3: this instead, And this is why. And that's what I'm saying.

761
00:35:20,558 --> 00:35:23,558
Speaker 3: If you take the science about the whole thing and

762
00:35:23,598 --> 00:35:25,998
Speaker 3: then get some people with actual experience of doing this

763
00:35:26,398 --> 00:35:27,518
Speaker 3: and overlay it.

764
00:35:27,838 --> 00:35:28,758
Speaker 4: That to me would be the.

765
00:35:28,678 --> 00:35:32,758
Speaker 3: Most interesting way to break this cycle, because it can't

766
00:35:32,798 --> 00:35:34,918
Speaker 3: remain this way, and it's not gonna work this way

767
00:35:34,958 --> 00:35:38,518
Speaker 3: regardless of this beautiful study and everything. Unless somebody takes

768
00:35:38,558 --> 00:35:41,518
Speaker 3: action and is strong enough to go away from the

769
00:35:41,558 --> 00:35:45,558
Speaker 3: over overwriting philosophy of an industry, you're gonna end up

770
00:35:45,558 --> 00:35:47,198
Speaker 3: doing the same thing over and over again. I guess

771
00:35:47,238 --> 00:35:49,198
Speaker 3: that's the definition of insanity.

772
00:35:49,478 --> 00:35:52,878
Speaker 2: Well, last year, this twenty twenty fourth season, there were

773
00:35:52,878 --> 00:35:56,438
Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty one Tommy John surgeries for professional

774
00:35:56,518 --> 00:35:58,718
Speaker 2: pitchers minor leagues and major league. Well that's kind of

775
00:35:58,958 --> 00:36:03,078
Speaker 2: sixty nine percent in the last decade. So that's one

776
00:36:03,358 --> 00:36:07,398
Speaker 2: Tommy surgery for every day of the championship season. Every

777
00:36:07,478 --> 00:36:10,438
Speaker 2: day at the championship season, somebody is getting cut on

778
00:36:10,958 --> 00:36:14,838
Speaker 2: that elbow. So it's an issue. It's not an issue

779
00:36:14,838 --> 00:36:17,438
Speaker 2: in terms of performance. It's harder to hit than ever

780
00:36:17,478 --> 00:36:21,158
Speaker 2: before the major leagues. It's an issue because pitchers are

781
00:36:21,198 --> 00:36:23,198
Speaker 2: not staying healthy. We owe it to them to try

782
00:36:23,198 --> 00:36:26,838
Speaker 2: to keep them healthy, and it's not producing a fan

783
00:36:26,958 --> 00:36:30,958
Speaker 2: friendly game where the ball just is not play. So

784
00:36:31,798 --> 00:36:35,198
Speaker 2: what happens? Listen, this is just the beginning identifying a problem.

785
00:36:35,278 --> 00:36:38,478
Speaker 2: The answers are not easy, but hopefully there are some

786
00:36:38,918 --> 00:36:41,998
Speaker 2: There is some change in philosophy going forward, because I

787
00:36:42,038 --> 00:36:46,078
Speaker 2: when you extrapolate this out, it just gets worse. To me. Joe,

788
00:36:46,118 --> 00:36:50,118
Speaker 2: we talked about gifts for your baseball fan. If you

789
00:36:50,118 --> 00:36:52,518
Speaker 2: haven't purchased any, I've got a couple of ideas. We'll

790
00:36:52,558 --> 00:37:07,438
Speaker 2: talk about that right after this. Welcome back to the

791
00:37:07,438 --> 00:37:11,758
Speaker 2: Book of Joe podcast. That's me Tom Berducci with Joe Madden. Joe,

792
00:37:11,758 --> 00:37:13,238
Speaker 2: I might have asked you this before. Do you have

793
00:37:13,278 --> 00:37:15,598
Speaker 2: a favorite gift growing up as a kid that you

794
00:37:15,718 --> 00:37:16,598
Speaker 2: got on Christmas?

795
00:37:16,878 --> 00:37:19,158
Speaker 4: Easy that blew you away? Yeah.

796
00:37:19,158 --> 00:37:20,678
Speaker 3: I just brought it up on the golf course the

797
00:37:20,718 --> 00:37:25,278
Speaker 3: other day, my flexible flyer I slid, yeah, with the

798
00:37:25,558 --> 00:37:28,078
Speaker 3: chrome bumper on it. That actually I did touch with

799
00:37:28,118 --> 00:37:30,078
Speaker 3: my tonguer lips one time and it did stick, and

800
00:37:30,078 --> 00:37:31,558
Speaker 3: it's kind of scared the crap out of me.

801
00:37:31,758 --> 00:37:33,198
Speaker 4: But that thing that survived.

802
00:37:33,198 --> 00:37:35,998
Speaker 3: I ran into a one of those wooden horses that

803
00:37:36,038 --> 00:37:39,358
Speaker 3: they used to block the streets off, so I did

804
00:37:39,958 --> 00:37:42,158
Speaker 3: my sight swiped it and it broke the side of

805
00:37:42,198 --> 00:37:45,598
Speaker 3: my sled, but I, you know, got it back home

806
00:37:45,598 --> 00:37:48,118
Speaker 3: and my dad was so talented he put a brace

807
00:37:48,158 --> 00:37:51,558
Speaker 3: on it, put it back together, so that flexible Flyer.

808
00:37:51,558 --> 00:37:53,798
Speaker 3: I remember waking up and it was standing up against

809
00:37:53,838 --> 00:37:56,838
Speaker 3: the wall and they were beautiful. The construction was beautiful,

810
00:37:56,838 --> 00:38:00,678
Speaker 3: the decal, the sticker, the logo, the emblem, whatever was outstanding.

811
00:38:01,078 --> 00:38:02,918
Speaker 4: Flexible Flyer wins. Yeah.

812
00:38:03,198 --> 00:38:05,278
Speaker 2: That was back when they had a lot of snow too,

813
00:38:05,358 --> 00:38:06,718
Speaker 2: so I'm sure you got to use it a lot.

814
00:38:09,278 --> 00:38:12,318
Speaker 2: I remember this toy I got called a Sandlot slugger.

815
00:38:13,758 --> 00:38:16,518
Speaker 2: This guy where his young kid wearing jeans and a

816
00:38:16,598 --> 00:38:19,358
Speaker 2: T shirt. You push down on his head and he

817
00:38:19,358 --> 00:38:22,878
Speaker 2: would swing the bat. And it came with a ball

818
00:38:22,878 --> 00:38:25,358
Speaker 2: on a tee and the harder you push down on

819
00:38:25,438 --> 00:38:27,198
Speaker 2: his head, the part of the ball went. I don't

820
00:38:27,238 --> 00:38:29,278
Speaker 2: know why, but I was very little in the love

821
00:38:29,358 --> 00:38:32,438
Speaker 2: baseball and you could use it anywhere and annoy your

822
00:38:32,438 --> 00:38:36,438
Speaker 2: sister's with it. So that's what I did. But I

823
00:38:36,518 --> 00:38:37,918
Speaker 2: was looking at the I don't know if you saw

824
00:38:37,958 --> 00:38:40,438
Speaker 2: this the other day, the home run that Freddie Freeman

825
00:38:40,518 --> 00:38:42,918
Speaker 2: hit the Grand Slam, walk off Grand Slam Game, War

826
00:38:42,958 --> 00:38:44,918
Speaker 2: of the World Series, Great moment, right, did you see

827
00:38:44,918 --> 00:38:45,998
Speaker 2: it just sold at auction?

828
00:38:46,158 --> 00:38:46,478
Speaker 4: Joe?

829
00:38:46,718 --> 00:38:48,958
Speaker 2: First of all, it was captured by a ten year

830
00:38:48,998 --> 00:38:53,558
Speaker 2: old kid grandstand the bleachers of Dodger Stadium. It was

831
00:38:53,598 --> 00:38:56,038
Speaker 2: a cute story because the kids got braces on and

832
00:38:56,078 --> 00:38:57,638
Speaker 2: his parents tell them, Hey, we're going to go to

833
00:38:57,678 --> 00:39:00,718
Speaker 2: the orthodontis and take your braces off, and they surprised

834
00:39:00,758 --> 00:39:03,318
Speaker 2: him by going straight to Dodger Stadium, not to the

835
00:39:03,398 --> 00:39:06,558
Speaker 2: orthodontic and he winds winds up with this ball that

836
00:39:06,638 --> 00:39:09,638
Speaker 2: Freddy Freeman was all Kirk Gibson on baseball history with

837
00:39:09,678 --> 00:39:11,638
Speaker 2: the home Running Game one. Did you see it just

838
00:39:11,678 --> 00:39:12,838
Speaker 2: sold at auction? Joe?

839
00:39:12,998 --> 00:39:13,398
Speaker 4: I did not.

840
00:39:14,038 --> 00:39:18,118
Speaker 2: It went for one point five six million dollars. Come on,

841
00:39:18,598 --> 00:39:21,238
Speaker 2: ten year old kid goes to a ball game, gets

842
00:39:21,278 --> 00:39:23,878
Speaker 2: a ball that becomes worth one point five to six

843
00:39:24,398 --> 00:39:26,718
Speaker 2: million dollars. How about that?

844
00:39:26,718 --> 00:39:30,278
Speaker 4: That's wow, That's that's staggering. Right.

845
00:39:30,998 --> 00:39:33,798
Speaker 2: It does not. It does not top the all time

846
00:39:33,878 --> 00:39:37,118
Speaker 2: record for a baseball at auction, and that was by

847
00:39:37,238 --> 00:39:40,838
Speaker 2: no other than shohe Otania his home run when he

848
00:39:40,878 --> 00:39:43,438
Speaker 2: went he got his fiftieth home run to make it

849
00:39:43,478 --> 00:39:45,958
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty for the first time in baseball history.

850
00:39:46,478 --> 00:39:51,638
Speaker 2: That sold at auction point three nine two million dollars.

851
00:39:51,798 --> 00:39:55,078
Speaker 2: Think about that. The Dodgers this year paid Otani two

852
00:39:55,078 --> 00:39:57,918
Speaker 2: million dollars in salary. Don't forget sixty eight million was

853
00:39:57,958 --> 00:40:00,718
Speaker 2: the first he was paid two million dollars in salary

854
00:40:00,718 --> 00:40:02,718
Speaker 2: at a baseball where it's twenty five bucks, sold for

855
00:40:02,918 --> 00:40:05,838
Speaker 2: double his salary of the Dodgers, what.

856
00:40:05,718 --> 00:40:08,078
Speaker 4: Did that banana sell for? That piece of art, the

857
00:40:08,078 --> 00:40:11,118
Speaker 4: banana tape with the with the duct tape, the.

858
00:40:11,118 --> 00:40:13,198
Speaker 2: Dude duct tape. Yeah, I saw. They talked to the

859
00:40:13,278 --> 00:40:15,598
Speaker 2: guy at the bedego who sold the darn thing. He's like,

860
00:40:15,638 --> 00:40:18,438
Speaker 2: what right, Yeah, that was millions.

861
00:40:18,078 --> 00:40:19,838
Speaker 3: Right, And the guy that bought it ate the banana.

862
00:40:19,918 --> 00:40:22,438
Speaker 3: So I mean, it's like who knows, I mean, the

863
00:40:22,758 --> 00:40:23,878
Speaker 3: price of anything anymore.

864
00:40:23,918 --> 00:40:24,638
Speaker 4: I love the idea.

865
00:40:24,718 --> 00:40:27,198
Speaker 3: I love the part about the parents telling the kid

866
00:40:27,198 --> 00:40:29,358
Speaker 3: who's going to get his braces taken off and then

867
00:40:29,358 --> 00:40:31,998
Speaker 3: all of a sudden that occurred. That's the magical part

868
00:40:31,998 --> 00:40:34,798
Speaker 3: of you know, parents taking kids the ball games, and

869
00:40:34,798 --> 00:40:37,878
Speaker 3: and that kind of impression will last forever. But I listen,

870
00:40:37,958 --> 00:40:39,798
Speaker 3: it's just it's like anything else is why do you

871
00:40:39,838 --> 00:40:43,358
Speaker 3: pay Soto seven? You know, seven hundred and some million dollars.

872
00:40:43,718 --> 00:40:46,118
Speaker 3: It's just the price of doing business right now. And

873
00:40:46,118 --> 00:40:49,598
Speaker 3: that's what happens with these baseballs, and somebody, somebody has

874
00:40:49,638 --> 00:40:52,158
Speaker 3: to have that item. You know, I wanted. I wanted

875
00:40:52,158 --> 00:40:53,838
Speaker 3: a new set of irons the other day, so I

876
00:40:53,838 --> 00:40:56,558
Speaker 3: did that. It's just it's what somebody, somebody's willing to

877
00:40:56,558 --> 00:40:58,078
Speaker 3: pay for it. It's interesting.

878
00:40:58,838 --> 00:40:59,198
Speaker 4: I don't know.

879
00:40:59,238 --> 00:41:01,718
Speaker 3: For me, it doesn't really float my boat in a sense,

880
00:41:01,758 --> 00:41:03,638
Speaker 3: or I don't really doesn't move my needle at all,

881
00:41:03,638 --> 00:41:06,198
Speaker 3: because I just that goes in and out of my brain.

882
00:41:06,238 --> 00:41:09,318
Speaker 3: But for the kid catching the ball because he went

883
00:41:09,358 --> 00:41:11,118
Speaker 3: to get braces or thought he's getting his brace was

884
00:41:11,158 --> 00:41:12,398
Speaker 3: taken off, I think that's pretty cool.

885
00:41:12,558 --> 00:41:14,438
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'm glad you brought that up with one.

886
00:41:14,518 --> 00:41:16,678
Speaker 2: So do people say, well, he's not worth it?

887
00:41:16,918 --> 00:41:17,118
Speaker 4: Right?

888
00:41:17,678 --> 00:41:20,158
Speaker 2: He is worth it because he put himself out on

889
00:41:20,198 --> 00:41:22,478
Speaker 2: the open market and somebody paid him that money. That's

890
00:41:22,558 --> 00:41:26,678
Speaker 2: the definite definition of worth. It boggles my mind. But

891
00:41:26,838 --> 00:41:30,998
Speaker 2: people are like, that's too much. Somebody paid it, that's right.

892
00:41:31,038 --> 00:41:34,118
Speaker 2: I mean, for instance, Joe, what do you The all

893
00:41:34,158 --> 00:41:39,758
Speaker 2: time record for any piece of baseball memorabilia was the

894
00:41:40,358 --> 00:41:43,638
Speaker 2: jersey that Babe Ruth wore in nineteen thirty two at

895
00:41:43,638 --> 00:41:46,798
Speaker 2: the Friendly Confines at Wrigley Field, the cold shot home run.

896
00:41:47,318 --> 00:41:49,158
Speaker 2: You know what that jersey went for? It sold four

897
00:41:49,198 --> 00:41:52,118
Speaker 2: months ago, by the way, nineteen thirty two cold shot

898
00:41:52,198 --> 00:41:55,638
Speaker 2: jersey at Babe Ruth all time record just taking.

899
00:41:55,558 --> 00:41:58,318
Speaker 4: A stab five million, five million.

900
00:41:59,078 --> 00:42:02,958
Speaker 2: You're not even close, really, twenty four point one two

901
00:42:03,198 --> 00:42:07,078
Speaker 2: million dollars. You say it's not worth it, right, Well,

902
00:42:07,118 --> 00:42:08,078
Speaker 2: it was to somebody.

903
00:42:09,078 --> 00:42:13,398
Speaker 3: Is that the same jersey that Costanza wiped was all over?

904
00:42:13,598 --> 00:42:15,238
Speaker 3: He sat there because he was trying to get fired

905
00:42:15,238 --> 00:42:18,118
Speaker 3: by the Yankees, and s Steinbrender said, it's about time.

906
00:42:18,678 --> 00:42:20,678
Speaker 3: Just a chubby little guy with skinny legs running around

907
00:42:20,678 --> 00:42:23,678
Speaker 3: the base is something like that. Listen, that's that's I

908
00:42:23,718 --> 00:42:25,278
Speaker 3: didn't know that. I did not know that at all.

909
00:42:25,398 --> 00:42:28,238
Speaker 2: Costanza didn't wash it, and you have a shrink on him.

910
00:42:28,278 --> 00:42:30,438
Speaker 2: It was so I came up with some ideas for

911
00:42:30,518 --> 00:42:33,438
Speaker 2: the if you're wanting some last minute gift ideas. MLB

912
00:42:33,638 --> 00:42:36,598
Speaker 2: dot com. You know they run these auctions. You see

913
00:42:36,598 --> 00:42:38,358
Speaker 2: balls taken out of the game, right, and they put

914
00:42:38,398 --> 00:42:42,598
Speaker 2: it authenticity sticker on it, and you know you can

915
00:42:42,638 --> 00:42:45,158
Speaker 2: bit on it. By the way, the ball that Aaron

916
00:42:45,238 --> 00:42:46,118
Speaker 2: Judge dropped.

917
00:42:47,038 --> 00:42:47,678
Speaker 4: I heard that one.

918
00:42:47,758 --> 00:42:52,238
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty three grand. The Dodgers did not sell that,

919
00:42:52,318 --> 00:42:55,958
Speaker 2: by the way. That was MLB auction, So you could

920
00:42:55,958 --> 00:43:02,718
Speaker 2: buy Aaron Judge's forty fourth home run ball four his

921
00:43:02,758 --> 00:43:05,238
Speaker 2: career number three oh one, so there's not really any

922
00:43:05,318 --> 00:43:08,518
Speaker 2: history attached to it. The current bid on that is

923
00:43:08,678 --> 00:43:13,038
Speaker 2: five grand, okay, so you'd bring at least five grand

924
00:43:13,078 --> 00:43:14,798
Speaker 2: if you want to get somebody as a as a

925
00:43:14,878 --> 00:43:18,438
Speaker 2: Christmas present. Aaron Judge's forty fourth home run ball a triple,

926
00:43:18,598 --> 00:43:20,638
Speaker 2: just an ordinary triple. If there is such a thing

927
00:43:20,638 --> 00:43:23,038
Speaker 2: for sho Hey Otani a ball he hit for a triple,

928
00:43:23,518 --> 00:43:26,198
Speaker 2: It's got a bid on it right now, eighteen hundred bucks,

929
00:43:26,478 --> 00:43:29,358
Speaker 2: so you've got to go higher than that. And there's

930
00:43:29,398 --> 00:43:32,798
Speaker 2: a beat that Otani used that he autographed as well,

931
00:43:32,918 --> 00:43:35,358
Speaker 2: game used bat and he autographed. It sounds like a

932
00:43:35,358 --> 00:43:37,318
Speaker 2: good gift for somebody, you know, Joe who's a big

933
00:43:37,318 --> 00:43:41,438
Speaker 2: O'tani fan. Right well, you better bid quickly because the

934
00:43:41,438 --> 00:43:45,598
Speaker 2: bidding closes on December the nineteenth, and the minimum bid

935
00:43:46,958 --> 00:43:51,478
Speaker 2: is fourteen nine and ninety five dollars. I think this

936
00:43:51,558 --> 00:43:53,278
Speaker 2: is all points to the fact that baseball is in

937
00:43:53,318 --> 00:43:56,078
Speaker 2: a really good place right now, Joe, You're spending fifteen

938
00:43:56,198 --> 00:43:58,558
Speaker 2: thous on an Otani autographed bet.

939
00:43:58,798 --> 00:44:00,598
Speaker 3: These are the kind of items you need for your auction,

940
00:44:00,718 --> 00:44:02,278
Speaker 3: items that your foundation, And I.

941
00:44:02,198 --> 00:44:04,918
Speaker 4: Think, yeah, how about that that right exactly?

942
00:44:04,958 --> 00:44:06,718
Speaker 3: I mean that's if you get in the right city,

943
00:44:06,758 --> 00:44:09,438
Speaker 3: and you have to have a big part of getting

944
00:44:09,518 --> 00:44:12,238
Speaker 3: that kind of dose having the right auctioneer. These guys

945
00:44:12,438 --> 00:44:16,278
Speaker 3: make or break your evening with your foundational dinners and stuff.

946
00:44:16,278 --> 00:44:19,238
Speaker 3: We've gone through that with respect ninety foundation. But that's

947
00:44:19,238 --> 00:44:21,318
Speaker 3: what I think when you say all that, and when

948
00:44:21,358 --> 00:44:23,718
Speaker 3: you get really really good stuff and you have the

949
00:44:23,798 --> 00:44:26,278
Speaker 3: right crowd with the right auctioneer. And I'm just talking

950
00:44:26,278 --> 00:44:29,158
Speaker 3: about online right now. And I guess maybe online could

951
00:44:29,198 --> 00:44:31,798
Speaker 3: actually be a pretty good auctioneer based on the number

952
00:44:31,798 --> 00:44:34,278
Speaker 3: of people that see it. But that's the difference maker.

953
00:44:34,358 --> 00:44:37,118
Speaker 3: So again, with somebody's willing to pay, is what it's worth.

954
00:44:37,118 --> 00:44:37,718
Speaker 4: I agree.

955
00:44:37,998 --> 00:44:40,558
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Freeman Ball, the bidding went crazy, like in

956
00:44:40,598 --> 00:44:44,318
Speaker 2: the last thirty or thirty minutes or last hour have

957
00:44:44,478 --> 00:44:46,758
Speaker 2: been about it was under a million to wound up

958
00:44:46,758 --> 00:44:49,678
Speaker 2: going at one point five million. So there you go.

959
00:44:49,918 --> 00:44:52,558
Speaker 2: If you've got say at least twenty thousand on you.

960
00:44:52,558 --> 00:44:55,078
Speaker 2: You can buy a home line ball by Aaron Judge,

961
00:44:55,598 --> 00:44:57,718
Speaker 2: a ball at at In for a triple, and an

962
00:44:57,718 --> 00:44:59,598
Speaker 2: ATONI signed bat. There you go.

963
00:45:00,038 --> 00:45:03,278
Speaker 3: I guess they're also counting on appreciation at some point,

964
00:45:03,358 --> 00:45:05,918
Speaker 3: right that is that supposed to be like the grand

965
00:45:06,078 --> 00:45:09,518
Speaker 3: kid's college education, because that time it's going to be

966
00:45:09,518 --> 00:45:11,398
Speaker 3: at least one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year

967
00:45:11,438 --> 00:45:13,718
Speaker 3: to go to Harvard or Yelle at one of those places,

968
00:45:13,878 --> 00:45:15,398
Speaker 3: or Princeton where you're located.

969
00:45:15,838 --> 00:45:16,478
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

970
00:45:16,838 --> 00:45:20,078
Speaker 2: You never know. You never know because the tany home

971
00:45:20,158 --> 00:45:22,518
Speaker 2: run ball I said, went for more than four millions

972
00:45:22,558 --> 00:45:26,038
Speaker 2: at the record. The old record was three million, and

973
00:45:26,038 --> 00:45:29,878
Speaker 2: that was Mark Maguire's seventieth home run ball. Really sure

974
00:45:29,918 --> 00:45:31,758
Speaker 2: that's appreciated much over the years.

975
00:45:31,638 --> 00:45:35,398
Speaker 4: Joe, No, I agree with you on that one percent percent.

976
00:45:36,078 --> 00:45:39,758
Speaker 2: So you kind of teased your your closing line here, Joe.

977
00:45:39,838 --> 00:45:42,158
Speaker 2: I think it has something to do, if I'm correct here,

978
00:45:42,198 --> 00:45:45,518
Speaker 2: with trusting data as much as we do in society today.

979
00:45:45,558 --> 00:45:48,358
Speaker 2: But who do you got with the words of the day.

980
00:45:48,598 --> 00:45:50,558
Speaker 4: I don't have an actual contributor.

981
00:45:50,558 --> 00:45:54,318
Speaker 3: It's just from a famous story movie Miracle on thirty

982
00:45:54,318 --> 00:45:57,838
Speaker 3: fourth Street, and appropriately. Yeah, all right, I wanted to

983
00:45:57,878 --> 00:46:01,398
Speaker 3: go with the Christmas name right now, and wow, we

984
00:46:01,518 --> 00:46:03,878
Speaker 3: nailed it early and simply put.

985
00:46:03,958 --> 00:46:05,678
Speaker 4: And I love this because you know how I am.

986
00:46:05,758 --> 00:46:09,798
Speaker 3: I mean, I do believe in numbers and I like

987
00:46:09,878 --> 00:46:11,918
Speaker 3: them and I want some direction, but I also believe

988
00:46:11,918 --> 00:46:14,518
Speaker 3: in people a little bit more and things that you

989
00:46:14,558 --> 00:46:17,918
Speaker 3: don't understand. So faith is believing in things when common

990
00:46:17,958 --> 00:46:21,238
Speaker 3: sense tells you not to. Faith is believing in things

991
00:46:21,238 --> 00:46:23,918
Speaker 3: when common sense tells you not to, things that you

992
00:46:23,998 --> 00:46:26,478
Speaker 3: just can't see, but you have to believe they're out there.

993
00:46:26,518 --> 00:46:28,318
Speaker 3: And this, of course, this has to deal with faith,

994
00:46:30,078 --> 00:46:32,238
Speaker 3: saying a religious method right here even and just when

995
00:46:32,238 --> 00:46:34,158
Speaker 3: it comes down to believing in Santa Claus or not,

996
00:46:34,718 --> 00:46:36,878
Speaker 3: but you have to rely on common sense. I mean

997
00:46:36,918 --> 00:46:38,998
Speaker 3: sometimes it just comes down to it. And we're talking

998
00:46:38,998 --> 00:46:42,198
Speaker 3: about the pitching right now. For me, obviously, everything's saying,

999
00:46:42,878 --> 00:46:44,718
Speaker 3: you know, trying to throw real hard is not good.

1000
00:46:44,958 --> 00:46:45,838
Speaker 4: It's just not good.

1001
00:46:45,958 --> 00:46:49,158
Speaker 3: And then you want pictures to last longer, So it's

1002
00:46:49,198 --> 00:46:51,078
Speaker 3: going to come down to a different method of training.

1003
00:46:51,398 --> 00:46:54,598
Speaker 3: You just can't continue this method and expect a different result.

1004
00:46:54,638 --> 00:46:57,438
Speaker 3: It's just not going to work. And you talk about

1005
00:46:57,518 --> 00:47:00,998
Speaker 3: hitting you're talking about hitting being a dearth of hitting

1006
00:47:01,038 --> 00:47:03,918
Speaker 3: right now, Well, if in fact you teach a different

1007
00:47:04,078 --> 00:47:09,518
Speaker 3: method of pitching, even if there's not, the ball is

1008
00:47:09,558 --> 00:47:12,278
Speaker 3: put in play more, which is exactly what not hits,

1009
00:47:12,358 --> 00:47:15,158
Speaker 3: but ball being put in play more and more reliance

1010
00:47:15,198 --> 00:47:17,998
Speaker 3: on defense and good old fashioned positioning, because now we're

1011
00:47:18,038 --> 00:47:21,478
Speaker 3: pitching at a lot of velocity number but still hard

1012
00:47:21,518 --> 00:47:23,398
Speaker 3: to hit. It's not easy to hit, man, it's just

1013
00:47:23,478 --> 00:47:26,758
Speaker 3: not easy. But the development of the fastball more are

1014
00:47:26,878 --> 00:47:30,278
Speaker 3: more i guess, pedestrian fastball like ninety three, ninety four,

1015
00:47:30,958 --> 00:47:33,798
Speaker 3: and learning just a different method of doing this, which

1016
00:47:33,838 --> 00:47:35,518
Speaker 3: is a more of a tried and true method.

1017
00:47:35,758 --> 00:47:37,558
Speaker 4: So then common sense would tell.

1018
00:47:37,398 --> 00:47:41,678
Speaker 3: You that pitchers pitching that manner, you're probably gonna get

1019
00:47:41,678 --> 00:47:44,438
Speaker 3: greater longevity out of them, both in terms of career

1020
00:47:44,958 --> 00:47:48,078
Speaker 3: and number of innings during appearance. And on the other side,

1021
00:47:48,078 --> 00:47:50,878
Speaker 3: you're looking for more offense, ball being put in play,

1022
00:47:51,278 --> 00:47:54,558
Speaker 3: maybe not necessarily equating hits, but it should. There'll be

1023
00:47:54,598 --> 00:47:57,238
Speaker 3: more greater batting average. But maybe you're gonna get what

1024
00:47:57,318 --> 00:48:00,118
Speaker 3: you want. You're gonna get healthier pitchers and a little

1025
00:48:00,158 --> 00:48:02,158
Speaker 3: bit more offense, and then you're gonna arrive at what's

1026
00:48:02,198 --> 00:48:04,878
Speaker 3: called baseball that doesn't a whole lot of change, but

1027
00:48:04,958 --> 00:48:07,358
Speaker 3: maybe just needs to learn from its past.

1028
00:48:07,918 --> 00:48:08,718
Speaker 2: I like it, Joe.

1029
00:48:09,078 --> 00:48:09,398
Speaker 4: Faith.

1030
00:48:09,998 --> 00:48:12,678
Speaker 2: It's a great word any time of year, but especially

1031
00:48:12,918 --> 00:48:15,798
Speaker 2: at this time of year. So thanks for that and

1032
00:48:15,958 --> 00:48:17,598
Speaker 2: a great job. We'll see you next time on the

1033
00:48:17,598 --> 00:48:18,158
Speaker 2: Book of Joe.

1034
00:48:18,158 --> 00:48:19,758
Speaker 4: All right, brother, take care of Merry Christmas.

1035
00:48:19,798 --> 00:48:22,438
Speaker 3: Merry Christmas to everybody.

1036
00:48:28,398 --> 00:48:31,598
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1037
00:48:31,838 --> 00:48:36,798
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1038
00:48:36,918 --> 00:48:38,718
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.