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Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything. So don Hello, welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: Worst Year Ever. Hello, continued into this one. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: the year it's not it's not it's not. Well, you

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Speaker 1: know what, let's not be unreasonable. Things are better in

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Speaker 1: that this time last year, everything was shut down from

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Speaker 1: a plague and there was no end in sight. And

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Speaker 1: now there is a vaccine and we might even get

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Speaker 1: it out fast enough to avoid states like Florida and

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Speaker 1: North South Carolina spreading the South African variant of the

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Speaker 1: virus that is vaccine resistant. Like fingers crossed. There is

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Speaker 1: some hope for some things at this point in time.

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Speaker 1: M But that's the name of the show and we're

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Speaker 1: sticking with it. Mm hmmm. So we're talking, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we did, we had happened. Well, a lot of things

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Speaker 1: have happened. UM. I guess it would be fair to

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Speaker 1: say that mass shooting season has come back, since things

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Speaker 1: are opening up, back back to normal um as as expected. Um.

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Speaker 1: And of course, I mean just like a week after

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Speaker 1: we talked to Christopher Long about anti Asian racism, there

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Speaker 1: was the mass shooting um in in Atlanta. Uh so

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Speaker 1: we've got a couple of guests to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Um and it's a rough conversation. Um and and I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of good historical context. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: it's very interesting. I think you'll find it valuable. Um

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Speaker 1: it's tough. So why don't we Why don't we before

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Speaker 1: we go into that, let's each talk about something good

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Speaker 1: that happened to us in the last week. Just to

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Speaker 1: a little little palate cleanser. Oh, I don't know. First

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Speaker 1: thing comes to mind as I saw that video from

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Speaker 1: The Dog Show of Gabby winning, Gabby, Gabby kicking ass. Guys,

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Speaker 1: just go to my Twitter and I I retweeted it.

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Speaker 1: That's the first nice thing that I could think of,

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Speaker 1: is it's super cute. Does that count of something nice

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Speaker 1: to share right now? I think it's really cute. Gabby

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Speaker 1: did good. We should I mean, when we spend so

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Speaker 1: much time digging into all of the horrible things people do,

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Speaker 1: we should celebrate the one good thing our species has accomplished,

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Speaker 1: which is dogs. Yes, the best. Yeah, they're completely unproblematic

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Speaker 1: good And victory victory on dogs, yeah, victory. The war

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Speaker 1: against not having dogs has been one conclusively. Tell that

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Speaker 1: to Peter. But that's that topic for another time. I

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Speaker 1: think dogs would argue with Peter on that point. I

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Speaker 1: think so, um, Cody, what about you uh playing music

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Speaker 1: a lot? That's fun. That's a lot of yardwork yesterday,

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Speaker 1: which is satisfying. Oh good, Yes, I do enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gearing up for gardening season again. I just planted

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Speaker 1: some potatoes and I'm looking forward to plant more potatoes. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: good time to be doing it. Food prices are going

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Speaker 1: to skyrocket this year. Um. The price of corn corn

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Speaker 1: futures has just leapt enormously. And that means that meat

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Speaker 1: is going to soar in price in the very near future. Um.

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Speaker 1: Meat or meat meat meat meat. Meat prices are more

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Speaker 1: reliant upon bumblebee futures. Um. But and and really what

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Speaker 1: you want to look at is the sale of drinking horns.

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Speaker 1: The more drinking horns are are out in the public,

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Speaker 1: the more expensive meat is going to. Well. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: with reopening there's going to be more. So I could

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Speaker 1: go for a rin fair, I could go for literally

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Speaker 1: anything where I'm around. I've shared this on certain shows,

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Speaker 1: I think definitely on my Twitter. My next door neighbor

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Speaker 1: uh works at the Renaissance Fair and as a performer,

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Speaker 1: and since the beginning of the pandemic, has made ends

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Speaker 1: meet by doing several live streams um a week every

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Speaker 1: week in the evening, you know, doing covers of songs,

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Speaker 1: but like interjecting jokes like round around, get around, I

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Speaker 1: get around, She's fast. You know, I'm gonna miss it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss it. I'm gonna have to go to

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Speaker 1: the Renaissance Fair, which I will want to do, but

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you want to hang out in the backyard. Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's fun. I would share. I would actually plug if

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Speaker 1: people have asked me to share his Patreon, but I

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Speaker 1: can't do that because that's a safety concern for me

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Speaker 1: personally as my next stornator. But anyway, Robert, what's yours?

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Speaker 1: I got my first of the shot of the Fiser vaccine.

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Speaker 1: It was actually like a week ago, but I'm still um,

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Speaker 1: you know, And it was if I felt like I

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Speaker 1: had like maybe a really mild flu for about ten hours.

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Speaker 1: They say that if you have a reaction after the

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Speaker 1: first shot, you might have had it. Yeah. I got

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Speaker 1: really sick actually about it. Almost exactly a year ago,

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Speaker 1: I got horribly ill at the Richmond gun rally um

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Speaker 1: that we're like, Um, I don't know if it was COVID.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember coughing a whole lot or having any

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Speaker 1: real lung issue, but it served. Um. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I got I got my first vaccine shot. I know

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Speaker 1: Sophie did too recently. Oh yeah, nice. Yeah, And UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I've just been kind of on a

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Speaker 1: little high about how cool the concept of a vaccine is. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I enjoy thinking about how neat those are that

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Speaker 1: that we figured that out. They're like, they're like right

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Speaker 1: under dogs in terms of my my list of things

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Speaker 1: we've done that I think are are are pretty rad. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to see the virus do the West Mr.

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Speaker 1: Dog Show, so to see that actually either way, Um well, friends,

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Speaker 1: let's lead into a tough but necessary conversation. So we uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what two weeks ago was it even?

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Speaker 1: Two yeah? Two weeks ago? Um. We had Christopher Wong

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Speaker 1: on to talk about not just kind of the present

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Speaker 1: epidemic of of anti Asian racism and hate crimes directed

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Speaker 1: particularly against elderly Asians, but about the long history of

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Speaker 1: violence towards Asians and anti Asian racism in the United States,

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Speaker 1: and then the next week, UM, there was a mass

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Speaker 1: shooting that targeted UM, particularly Asian women working at a

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Speaker 1: series of massage parlors in Atlanta, UM. And since then

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Speaker 1: there's been another mass shooting and Boulder that I'm sure

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about later UM. But we wanted to have

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Speaker 1: Christopher back on and also we wanted to some details

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Speaker 1: came out about the shooter UM in Atlanta, UM, and

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Speaker 1: there's been a bunch of kind of I think vergin

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Speaker 1: on misinformation about Oh no, this wasn't an anti ation

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Speaker 1: hate crime, this was about his sex addiction. UM. He

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Speaker 1: came from a very specific religious background and was kind

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Speaker 1: of inculcated within a specific thing I think purity culture

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Speaker 1: is the best term for so. I also brought in

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Speaker 1: a very good friend of mine, Eve Ettinger, who grew

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Speaker 1: up in I guess we'd say an adjacent religious community.

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Speaker 1: And our goal for this week is to kind of

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Speaker 1: facilitate a conversation between Christopher and Eve and hopefully arrive

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Speaker 1: at kind of a greater understanding of the dynamics of

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Speaker 1: the situation and what led to all of those murders. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I'm like I hate

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Speaker 1: being here for these reasons. Yeah, I don't like having

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Speaker 1: this expertise, but hey, yeah, yeah, I'm sure a similar

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Speaker 1: a similar boat. You know. So the day after we

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Speaker 1: recorded the last episode, UM, I was talking to one

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Speaker 1: of my friends when we were talking about this, and

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Speaker 1: I was saying, Okay, the only thing that you could

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Speaker 1: consider even vaguely good about the sort of like the

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Speaker 1: the only sort of vague silver lining about the anti

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Speaker 1: ation violence was that it was basically all people doing

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Speaker 1: plunt force stuff, which meant, I mean, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about hundreds of attacks, but you know, the body acut

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Speaker 1: wasn't that high because it turns out it's extremely hard

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Speaker 1: to kill people by just beating them to death. And

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Speaker 1: you know that that all changed last week. Um yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we finally got the combination of person who wants

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Speaker 1: to kill Asian people and has guns, which yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was kind of it was one of

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Speaker 1: those things I think unfortunately, if you were paying attention,

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Speaker 1: you knew was coming, you know it was. Um, I

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Speaker 1: felt kind of similarly to when we finally had the

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Speaker 1: christ Church shooting of just like this is good, this

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Speaker 1: is going to happen, This is going to happen. The

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Speaker 1: warning signs you hear the warning signs are Okay, there's

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Speaker 1: you know it's happened now, um, which is uh Um.

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Speaker 1: I guess there's a particular kind of horror in seeing that,

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Speaker 1: seeing it on the horizon and knowing you can't stop it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I grew up with these kinds of guys, like I know,

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Speaker 1: I know this type, and it's you know, I'm glad

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Speaker 1: it took this long to happen. I wish it had

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Speaker 1: never happened, but you know, not surprised. And it's it's

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Speaker 1: so that people are talking about it now. Could you

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Speaker 1: give us a little bit of context even sort of

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Speaker 1: what purity culture is and what you understand of kind

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Speaker 1: of where this guy's where this guy's religious upbring bringing

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Speaker 1: would have intersected with his with his actions. Okay, so um,

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Speaker 1: there's there's just so much to cover in terms of

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Speaker 1: where this intersect with the anti Asian sentiment that he's

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Speaker 1: you know, reacting to. Um. But the purity culture essentially, um.

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Speaker 1: It it's the modern versions of it that you might

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Speaker 1: have heard, the silver Ring thing, Josh Harris, the courtship stuff,

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Speaker 1: all of that that I grew up with. Um, really

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Speaker 1: comes out of a very um, white supremacist, colonizer, white

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Speaker 1: colonizer kind of mindset where white virginity is seen as

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Speaker 1: the epitome of purity and this thing that needs to

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Speaker 1: be protected and that um, you know, you have all

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Speaker 1: of these conversations happening around UM, like the over sexualization

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Speaker 1: of black girls and and how they're they're forced to

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Speaker 1: you know, grow up too quickly because they're treated like

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Speaker 1: adult adults with sexual agency because in contrast with the

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Speaker 1: the cult of white virginity, they're not allowed to have

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Speaker 1: that kind of purity or that kind of um, you know,

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Speaker 1: idealized innocence. And so the history goes way way way back.

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Speaker 1: But um, the current current versions of it UM is

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Speaker 1: pretty heavily religious UM and is based on some really

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Speaker 1: fundamentalists misinterpretations of various biblical texts and and is treating

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Speaker 1: things like masturbation as sinful. So you know, for you

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Speaker 1: just like a short preview of like I grew up

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Speaker 1: thinking that I had a masturbation addiction because I did

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Speaker 1: it at all, as and that was something that was

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Speaker 1: just seen as like so for and for a woman,

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Speaker 1: someone being raised as a woman to have this extrabe

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Speaker 1: that like that was seen as sinful, and so I

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Speaker 1: grew up with this huge sense of shame around that. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so when you have that kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: these cultures that are this this subculture that's really repressive

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Speaker 1: and um really demonizes any kind of sexuality and expression

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Speaker 1: of sexuality as bad. You just the mindset gets very,

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Speaker 1: very limited, very quickly. Yeah, and I it's hard. I

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Speaker 1: think for a lot of well, I don't know that

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Speaker 1: there's elements of this, I guess all of kind of

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Speaker 1: mainstream American culture, right this kind of like demonization of

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Speaker 1: of sex and sexual urges. UM. I think it is

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Speaker 1: hard for most of us to get into the headspace

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Speaker 1: of somebody who is being taught that who is being

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Speaker 1: led to believe that, like this is a major medical

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Speaker 1: problem that they have, right, Like that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: and I it seems like that's what this guy felt

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Speaker 1: like these the fact that these people were providing a

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Speaker 1: service that he was using because that service was sexual,

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Speaker 1: was ruining his life. Um Like that that's that's uh,

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Speaker 1: and that's not a thing this guy, that's what's that's

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Speaker 1: what he was claimed to the police that he had

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Speaker 1: a sex addiction. And that he like was was felt.

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Speaker 1: That's what the police. Okay, So here's the thing. Here's

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Speaker 1: the thing I've done in my snooping around on his

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Speaker 1: church's website on the way back way back machine. What's

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Speaker 1: left up. They have connections to groups that taught similar

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Speaker 1: stuff to the stuff that I was raised or have

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Speaker 1: overlapped with the things I was taught. Um that they

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Speaker 1: have a link on there about internet accountability and there's

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Speaker 1: a blocking software that they are recommending on the church's

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Speaker 1: official website. For um that basically my family had something

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Speaker 1: similar growing up. Would be like if you went to

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Speaker 1: a sex plate sexually explicit piece of content on the Internet,

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Speaker 1: it would send an email to your accountability partner notifying

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Speaker 1: them that you had visited this website. And so that

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Speaker 1: So when he says sex addiction, I you we don't

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Speaker 1: need to even jump to the conclusion that he was

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Speaker 1: actually sexually active at because it was like a sex

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Speaker 1: addiction in this community could be as little as like

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Speaker 1: watching forn once a week or jacking off a couple

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Speaker 1: of times a day, Like that's a sex addiction in

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Speaker 1: this world. UM, I don't want to go too bar

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Speaker 1: into the weeds with it. But that's that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of stuff that like, so whenever any

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Speaker 1: saying oh, these were sex workers, that's a whole jump

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Speaker 1: that I I'm not comfortable making because and his assertion

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Speaker 1: that he was, you know, this was his sex addiction.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't necessarily connect because he doesn't have to be

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Speaker 1: sexually active to have a sex addiction in this community's

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Speaker 1: definition of things. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it's

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Speaker 1: accurate to say he could have just been like literally

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Speaker 1: receiving massages and attracted to these people and that thinking

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Speaker 1: about getting a massage. Yeah. So like so like there's

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Speaker 1: a whole there's a whole book that was that was

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Speaker 1: by Josh Harris about lust that was given to Pete

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Speaker 1: teens around my a the time I was in high school.

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Speaker 1: I think it came out in like two um no

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Speaker 1: something I got, but it changed titles a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not I'm not sure what the final one was.

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Speaker 1: But essentially it was like, if you can masturbate without

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Speaker 1: thinking about someone, without objectifying human, it's not a sin.

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Speaker 1: That was the essential premise in that. So if he's

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Speaker 1: like going there getting a massage and then jacking off

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Speaker 1: to it later he is committing a sin in his

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Speaker 1: own mind. So I just want to interject to say

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Speaker 1: that it is possible that this parlor was sexual in nature.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen that officially. I just was looking it

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Speaker 1: up to check. Um. Yeah, it's like there is, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. And also also, I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: whole product conversation about how we talk about sex workers

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Speaker 1: and and the fact that people are dancing around that

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Speaker 1: aspect of this story when at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter either way. Yeah, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: one of the things that's interesting is that is what

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Speaker 1: I saw very clearly happening, and in part from the

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Speaker 1: police officer who made the first public comments, who was

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Speaker 1: himself himself super racist and was sharing anti anti Chinese

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Speaker 1: um memes related to covid um, was this attempt to

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Speaker 1: like deflect from claims that this was at all related

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Speaker 1: in anti Asian bigotry and instead angle it as well,

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Speaker 1: this is just a troubled young man with um with

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Speaker 1: a sexual problem, who who had who had a bad day. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting to me is the kind

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Speaker 1: of layers of white supremacy baked within this, both in

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Speaker 1: terms of what um, Eve you were talking about with

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Speaker 1: there's this idea that like particularly white sexuality, there's something

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Speaker 1: sacred about like innocence and something there. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: this this there are these other shades of kind of

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Speaker 1: the the very old some very old standing, um, some

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Speaker 1: very old standing stereotypes, particularly about Asian UH women, like

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Speaker 1: Christopher you talked about last time, there was a period

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Speaker 1: of time when the United States defined any Asian woman

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Speaker 1: in the United States as a sex worker. And so

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Speaker 1: I don't I think one thing is clear there in

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Speaker 1: Katie and Eve, you're both very right to to hesitate

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Speaker 1: to um make any claims about what was actually happening

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Speaker 1: at the massage parlor. But regardless of what was going on, UM,

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Speaker 1: I think it's impossible to disentangle white supremacy in anti

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Speaker 1: Asian bigotry from this crime. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you had kind of anything more to

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Speaker 1: say on that angle, Christopher, just based on what what

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Speaker 1: Eve was talking about a little bit ago. Yeah, continue

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Speaker 1: do two things here, UM. So One, there was a

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Speaker 1: Red Canary Song, which is a sex work group security.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk more about you a little bit, um.

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Speaker 1: They had a vigil for the victims, and one of

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Speaker 1: people have the vigil was a sex worker organizer. It

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Speaker 1: was Kyli and Jong, and she was talking about specifically

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Speaker 1: the the ties between this and Christianity. And I think

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Speaker 1: this is something that's sort of important, is that racism

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Speaker 1: has you know, it can wear a lot of different ideologies,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, you could be sort of like conventional

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Speaker 1: major republicanism. You can have racist democrats, you can have

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Speaker 1: sort of racist evangelicals. Even especially in the eight hundreds,

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Speaker 1: it wears the face of that we're like the workers

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Speaker 1: movement a lot. But you know, in relation to this

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Speaker 1: specific thing, she said, quote, they hate us this talking

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Speaker 1: about sex workers. They hate us, so they can hate

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Speaker 1: themselves less that it's about you know, it's about like

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Speaker 1: this is because they hate themselves that they have this

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Speaker 1: this they displaced this sort of hatred onto other people

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Speaker 1: and that makes them feel better. And you know they

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Speaker 1: you know, you're talking about like you're not supposed to

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Speaker 1: like objectified woman, but that's like all they do. That

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Speaker 1: that's their whole religion, right, It's just turning women into

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Speaker 1: objects and turning Yeah, and and this this is replicated,

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Speaker 1: you know even after you know after the massacre, right

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Speaker 1: when you know, like social workers show up when the

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Speaker 1: government shows up. And this is one of the things

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Speaker 1: she was talking about, is that you know, all the

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Speaker 1: whole system, like of of clients, of judges, social workers,

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Speaker 1: of the state just treats to work, particularly Asian sex workers,

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Speaker 1: exactly the same way as the shooter does. And it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter whether they're there to like save them or

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Speaker 1: whether they're they're too you know, kill them. They they

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Speaker 1: have they have the same fundamental beliefs and the same

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Speaker 1: sort of displace much of their own like self hatre

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Speaker 1: in their own sort of an inability to grapple with

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Speaker 1: the fact that like what what they are feeling is

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Speaker 1: from is something they've created and not something that's the

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Speaker 1: responsibility of the women they are gractifying. And there there's

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Speaker 1: also something that I think I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: with the way that sort of massage parlors and sex

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Speaker 1: work gets conflated. And I want to put another quote

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Speaker 1: from us is est uh Kay was one of the

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Speaker 1: co directors of Reckonary song Um said quote the conflation

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Speaker 1: of massage parlors and sex workers without any nuances very

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Speaker 1: specific to anti Asian racism against Asian women. Um, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I know something really interesting. So this is

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Speaker 1: a quote that was put in The Guardian. Now, The

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Speaker 1: Guardian when they talked about Red Canary said that they

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Speaker 1: were quote a grassroots Chinese massage parlor worker coalition, And

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Speaker 1: I thought that was really weird because I know Red

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Speaker 1: Canary Song, Like, that's not what yeah right, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So here's here's what's on their website. Quote. We are

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Speaker 1: a grassroots collective of Asian and migrant sex workers. So

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Speaker 1: this is the ship that we're dealing with here, right.

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Speaker 1: The Guardian went to Red Canary Songs website, wrote down

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Speaker 1: their description and then change sex workers to massage parlor workers. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's stunning. It's stunning, and like this this is part

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Speaker 1: of the part of what's happening here is the media

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Speaker 1: is completely unprepared to deal with this because you know,

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Speaker 1: they're like they yeah, because because they're they're also racist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's the kind of thing. I can't even

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Speaker 1: know if that was a that was a specific editorial change,

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Speaker 1: or if that was somebody in their head reading sex

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Speaker 1: worker and replacing it automatically with the massage parlor both

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Speaker 1: without interchangeable and I'm thinking about how culturally, for so

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Speaker 1: long it's been acceptable to make jokes or associations to

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Speaker 1: that effect, like, oh, you're going to get a time massage?

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Speaker 1: Is it? You know? And the fact that I mean

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Speaker 1: I personally have not been into any of those establishments

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Speaker 1: without seeing an explicit sign about do not touch our

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Speaker 1: massage therapists. Well, and I was talking I was talking

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Speaker 1: to a couple of sex worker friends about this after

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Speaker 1: this happened, and one of the things that was coming

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Speaker 1: up was, it's so annoying when I'm here to do

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Speaker 1: my job and you want a massage that's not something

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Speaker 1: I do, Like, yeah, It's like, that's not my My

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Speaker 1: training is in here. Yeah, absolutely together. One of the

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Speaker 1: things this movie think about as an article as readings

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Speaker 1: in Vanity Fair about a documentary that came out called

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Speaker 1: Tales of the Grim Sleeper, which was about a serial

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Speaker 1: killer in Los Angeles who targeted primarily black sex workers

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Speaker 1: and wasn't caught for a very long time because his

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Speaker 1: victims were bat black. And there's a quote in there

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Speaker 1: that I think ties into all of this in a

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Speaker 1: pretty um a pretty horrifying way. Quote. One of the

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Speaker 1: most troubling pieces of information presented in the film is

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Speaker 1: that police officers are reported to have used the unofficial

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Speaker 1: acronym in h I No Humans Involved to describe the

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Speaker 1: slayings of prostitutes and drug addicts. That's not just Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: although it happened here. That is a thing that that

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Speaker 1: cops do in HI No Humans Involved. They were they

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Speaker 1: were sex workers, they were drug addicts, they were you know, um.

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Speaker 1: And I'm I'm sure not to get us too much

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Speaker 1: out of out of kind of the topic of today,

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Speaker 1: but it's all it's all very tied together, kind of

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Speaker 1: the white there's these this I think people talk too

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Speaker 1: much about white supremacy as a single thing rather than

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Speaker 1: a series of interlocking systems. And you've got um these

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Speaker 1: kind of you've got white supremacy within this, within this

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Speaker 1: religious um, this strain of religious teaching. You've got it

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Speaker 1: within law enforcement. UM, you've got it within these various

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Speaker 1: socio economic systems. You've got it within the immigration system.

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Speaker 1: And I think all of that, it's like this, the

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Speaker 1: series of wheels that are kind of working together to

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Speaker 1: make slangs like what happened in Atlanta inevitable. This was

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Speaker 1: one of the things that that made This is why

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Speaker 1: everyone's sort of you know, if if you've been watching

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Speaker 1: how people have been talking about it afterwards, people just

395
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Speaker 1: sort of lost their minds and couldn't analyze it because

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a place where basically almost all

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Speaker 1: of the sites of violence like come together. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you have a bunch of people who are market workers

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Speaker 1: who and this is one of the other things about

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Speaker 1: tying this directly to the police is that you know,

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Speaker 1: people who work in massage parlors do not call the

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Speaker 1: cops because, yeah, a very obvious reasons. I mean, there

403
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Speaker 1: was there was a report from Butterflies sexer group Battle

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Speaker 1: Toronto who said that, yeah, if decent of all massage

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Speaker 1: parlor workers reported some kind of threat of safety at

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Speaker 1: their work, they don't call the cops because you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of those threats, right are from cops who

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Speaker 1: like constantly, just over and over and over again, do

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Speaker 1: these raids on uh on massage parlors as part of

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Speaker 1: the sort of anti trafficking thing. But you know a

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Speaker 1: lot you know, they'll do these raids and they'll claim, oh,

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Speaker 1: we we've freed twenty six people from trafficking, and then

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Speaker 1: you look at what actually happened, and it's no, they

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Speaker 1: took twenty six people. They took they stripped them all

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Speaker 1: all of their edification, they took their passports, and they

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Speaker 1: just sort of kicked them out into the street. And

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Speaker 1: they never never charged any of the uh never charged

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Speaker 1: any people in the massage place. But you know, you

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Speaker 1: you would think, right if if this was actually an

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Speaker 1: anti trafficking thing, that they would you know, like prosecute

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Speaker 1: the people who doing the trafficking. But no they don't

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Speaker 1: because you know the and and this is the other thing.

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Speaker 1: If if it insofar as you're talking about trafficking, well,

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Speaker 1: guess who does trafficking. It's the police. Yeah. So I

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Speaker 1: just want to like put a plug in here for

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Speaker 1: uh that you're wrong about. Podcast has a couple of

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Speaker 1: really good episodes on busting mys on on sex trafficking

428
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: and like so one of the things that they would

429
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: talk they were talking about in one of those episodes

430
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: was like, you know, you might have that number like okay,

431
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: twenty nine people we rescued or whatever, um, but they

432
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: won't count repeats, so it'll be like the same if

433
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: they're like raiding the same place over and over again,

434
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: and these individuals are repeatedly being arrested. They will identify

435
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: them over and over again as a new number, so

436
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: they're not there. The numbers are really inflated and they're

437
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: really badly calculated. And and I just want to kind

438
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: of pan off of the trafficking and the cops. Like

439
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: the history of of like the Christian communities, like response

440
00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: to trafficking as a concept is extremely classist and UM

441
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: extremely tied to this like Madonna horror complex UM. And

442
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: the way you see it like originate is goes back

443
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: to Victorian England and the Salvation Army and they basically

444
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: we're uh trying to create a moral panic about children

445
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: being trafficked. UM. And there were so many orphans that

446
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: were being shoveled around and being used in um you know,

447
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: these exploit of labor conditions, and they were trying to

448
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: help them, but they wanted to get attention on the issue,

449
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: so they staged a uh like they paid someone to

450
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: go procure a child. And then you know, the guy

451
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: shows up and it's like, okay, we got it, Like

452
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: this is happening, so we have proof that is happening,

453
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: even though he was the one who's facilitated it just

454
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: like the cops facilitate these kinds of stings, I mean

455
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: exact saying the exact same method. So the Salvation Army

456
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: has been doing this since then, and and it kind

457
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: of all goes back to I mean, there's all these

458
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: Victorian ideals of white womanhood and what it means. There's

459
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: this poem by Coventry Path more than I think is

460
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: really important. It's called the Angel in the House, and

461
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: it's talking about like the ideal woman, and she's she's pure,

462
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: and she's passive, and she's takes care of the children,

463
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: and she's completely self sacrificing and self effacing, and and

464
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: so anyone who's going out and doing anything and taking

465
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: initiative for themselves and having effects on their own terms,

466
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: this is something that can't exist according to these these

467
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: tropes and the binaries that this and the Christian imagination. Well,

468
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: and I think also the Victorian era is crucial, Like

469
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: I think people don't understand this. Every before the Victorian era,

470
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: like people had way like the people sort of social

471
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: and like like sort of sexual cultural politicians way closer

472
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: to us. And even like the sixty hundred reception unders

473
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: and in the eight hundreds, all the things that we

474
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: think of as conservatism or that have been there for

475
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: like forever or whatever like that. That's when all of

476
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: this is formed because the Victorians are just the worst

477
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: people who have ever lived, like you know, influence. We're

478
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: gonna talk about, like there's there's a lot of things

479
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: happening in this period, right like you know, if if

480
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 1: you want to, if you want to talk about sort

481
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: of fancy colonial violence, like these people are like in

482
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: in India right there, there's there's there's rebellioning as British rule,

483
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: like the British strapped people to cannons to like destroy

484
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: their bodies so that like they can't be buried properly.

485
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: Like this, this is the kind of stuff these people

486
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: are doing. And and you know it's not a coincidence,

487
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: Like this, this is this is the moment when you

488
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: get both the sort of the Christian solidification of sort

489
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: of the submistic woman, and it's also the exact moment

490
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: where you get a really solidified by conception of of

491
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, this is that the sort of Orientalist conception

492
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: of of Asian women as these like submissive butterfly women

493
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: who are like dolls. And you get people going to

494
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: your and and writing about you know, write writing about

495
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: Japanese women like this, and you know this spreads like

496
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: wildfire across like mass culture and this is these are

497
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: all like all of the tropes that we see today,

498
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: like are from the Victorian here with with basically the

499
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: exception of the sex worker thing, which is like the

500
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: all Asian sex workers and the me love you long

501
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: time ship from Kubrick like that's that stuff has to

502
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: do with you know, one of the other really horrific

503
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: scenes of sort of massive violence Ignizaian women, which is

504
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: you know, I would say this like the people in

505
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: this region just cannot get a break. So you know,

506
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: you have you have the invasion to Philippins by the US.

507
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: You start to see mass violence there and then you know,

508
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: if you're in China and your career, you get invaded

509
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: by Japan and Japan's is of the comfortable women's system.

510
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: And you know, people people sort of know about this

511
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: is this massix system of sexual slavery. Well people tend

512
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: not to know about is that the Americans at the

513
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: end of the ward to the Americans essentially inherit this empire,

514
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: like they take over. So just six networks and they

515
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: inherit the comfort women's system. And there's complicated ways that

516
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: this works, but they you know a lot of the

517
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: sort of because one of these happens in the Korean

518
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: War is Korea is just completely leveled. It's absolutely devastated,

519
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: millions of people unemployee, and you get you see these

520
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: so camp talents. You have a million women who are

521
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: basically forced into sex work by the fact that the

522
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: US have annihilated their country. And but you know, and

523
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: the way that stuff is organized is you know, it's

524
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: this it is descended from the Southern Japanese we're doing

525
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: and you know, you see this again repeated in Vietnam

526
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: and all the stuff that comes out of that, and

527
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: it's you just sort of, you know, you step back

528
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: and look at this, and it's just colonialism, imperialism. It's

529
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: just this nightmare that never ends. Like the faces changed.

530
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's the French, sometimes the Japanese, sometimes it's the Americans,

531
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: but you know, the violence is the same, and it's

532
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: just keeps going and going and going, and it's just

533
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: you know, and and it you know, the violence sort

534
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: of rebounds back and forth between you know what the U. S.

535
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: Army does, and it comes back home, that it goes

536
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: back abroad again, it comes back home, and you end

537
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: up with, you know, the situation we're in today where

538
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: just the whole view of Asian women is based on

539
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: sort of American sort of imperial fear as an American

540
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: imperial victories and defeats, and yeah, there's a lot of

541
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: sort of grim aspects of this too where you get

542
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: so you know, one of one of the reactions to

543
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: this from inside the sort of Asian American community is

544
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: you get these sort of nominally anti imperialists, like anti

545
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: sex worker groups for people who see this violence that

546
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: are like, okay, well the problem here is that they're

547
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: sex workers like at all. And this goes to really

548
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: bad places real fast. So this is really called a

549
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: firm people probably you've probably run into them, who are

550
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: trying to sort of like exploit the killings. Is like

551
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: a hey, we can do anti sex work stuff, except

552
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, a firm in Hawaii was vandalizing massage parlors

553
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: with like really terrifying your pitio stuff, and it's like, okay,

554
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: it sounds like people that should be casting im moral judgments. Yeah,

555
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: what is It's also just you know, but part of

556
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: part of the reason if people have a problem, Okay,

557
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: this is this is sort of bad. That's a bad

558
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: way e splining it, but there's you know, one of

559
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: one of the fundamental problems is sort of anti Asian racism,

560
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: racism agaust Asian woman is that you know, Asian women

561
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: are at all times essentially treated like like how how

562
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: the rest of society treats sex workers? Right, Like it's

563
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: you know, you you're supposed to be an object of body,

564
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: is supposed to be available for white men at all times.

565
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: And a lot of people's reactions to this as well,

566
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: we need to separate Asian woman from sex work, right

567
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: But you know, fundamentally, you know, you're dealing with racism here,

568
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: but you're also dealing with the fact that this is

569
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: just how we treat sex workers. We arrest them constantly,

570
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: We constantly to arrest them, like you know, I talked

571
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: about Young Song and the last time. But you know,

572
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: it's it's incredibly relevant here that the police just hound

573
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: them to their deaths abused them. And you can't really

574
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: solve this problem unless you're able to, like unless you

575
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: know you're you're you're you're dealing with these problems simultaneously.

576
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: Well you're saying, you mean, just like what you're saying earlier,

577
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: like these are this is an intersection of a particularly

578
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: virulent strain of Christian misogyny with classism with racism. Like

579
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: this is where those three things are coming together. And

580
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: you know when you look at you know how Christians

581
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: treat their own women. You know, I grew up in

582
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: a fundamentalist home school, corporateal You are gonna google terms

583
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: that that's that's the way to find how I was

584
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: raised a quiver whole family and I was I was

585
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: raised to UH with the idea that my purpose in

586
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: life was to get married and have more babies and

587
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: homeschool them and raise them for Jesus and repeat the

588
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: process that my mother had a niotis is nine um.

589
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: And so you know there was there was there was

590
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: this mythology around um, you know what a biblical woman was.

591
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: And if you look at the Council of Biblical Manhood

592
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: and Womanhood, they've got like these whole treatises um that

593
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: you can read about like what they thought an ideal

594
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: woman should be. And it goes back to the Angel

595
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 1: in the house kind of trope from the Victorian era

596
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: where they had this this neo Victorian nostalgia for for

597
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: this idea of woman that that never actually existed, where

598
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, the woman is passive, the woman is a receiver,

599
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: the woman is constantly sexually available, the woman is fertile.

600
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: The women is there to provide for the children and

601
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: care of things and make life easy for her husband.

602
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: And and so there's all these like gender roles that

603
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: they're putting on their own women. Um. But they have

604
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 1: to protect those women because they are ensuring the racial

605
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: purity of that community. And so when you step outside

606
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: of that, um, of course, they're not going to treat

607
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: other women well. They're not treating their own women well.

608
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: And and once these these women have no value to

609
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: them socially, gonna get a whole lot worse. They can

610
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: take out, they can act out, they can take out

611
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: their repression you know, yeah on other people. Yes, disposable

612
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: and you know, and I think that the purity aspects

613
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: very important to this and the even surface looking at

614
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: historical violence ignissia women and this is you know, if

615
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: we're talking about the pay Jack, which is the act

616
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: that like that supposedly banned anyone who was in the

617
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: country for quote immoral purposes, who are lewd like this

618
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: is the justification for those was again, was you know,

619
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: about maintaining American racial purity. They're they're they're very open

620
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: about this, and you know, Asian women are you know,

621
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: are seen as a threat to a certain American racial period,

622
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: and that meant you have to do ethnic cleansing. And

623
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's a lot of ethnic cleansing

624
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: that happens in especially the eight hundreds, but even after that.

625
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: And I want to take a moment to see something

626
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: about mass shootings in general. Um, that's something I first

627
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: started from Vicky Osta. Well, I think there's there's sort

628
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: of trust since this which is about mass that the

629
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: sort of mass shootings TA today are basically just sort

630
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: of individualized versions of the sort of mass communal violence

631
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: of the eighteen hundreds of nine hundreds. And so you know,

632
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: if if you want to look at what the sort

633
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: of model for the shooter is, you know, you can

634
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: look at that the sort of anti Chinese riots and

635
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: broader anti action riots. Because this is the pressing thing

636
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 1: about this. Every single different Asian American national ethnic group

637
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: has their own massacre, but specifically targeted them, you know,

638
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 1: I mean, just just to to go through there. There's

639
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: there's the there's a whole just particularly on the West Coast,

640
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: this entire wave of ethnic cleansing, and you know, I

641
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: mean it starts in the eighteen sixties. But just just

642
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: just just to like read some of these so you've

643
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: got an understanding like a partial list of just like

644
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: how many of them there are. Just there's the Chinese

645
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,479
Speaker 1: massacre of seventy one, San Francisco Riots of seventies seven five.

646
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: There's and this this is this is one of the

647
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,919
Speaker 1: common themes that this is Chinese expulsions from Tacoma, which

648
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: you know they'll just run to every Chinese person, it

649
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: depends on the ethnic group. There's also like every Indian

650
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: person in uh because Everett, I think, just gets run

651
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: out to Canada. There's the Spring massacre five. There's a

652
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: quote attacks also in that same year in in Seattle

653
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: has a riot. They try to give this Nancy Asian riot.

654
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: There's the Hell's Canyon massacre, which is another Another thing

655
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: that happens is that like rail workers and miners who

656
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: are Asian just get slaughtered by particularly white workers who

657
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: are just off with them. For like, you know, the

658
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: fact that the wages are lower, you know the union. Yeah, yeah,

659
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: well it's it's more it's yeah, it's more than that.

660
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: Though the Chinese workers were brought in the in the

661
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds are a lot of a lot of ways

662
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be replacements for sort of enslaved black labor.

663
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: And also has to do with the transportation problem where

664
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: you can't really like it's actually hard to get across

665
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: the US and so there's no good way to serve

666
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: a mass like export sort of the newly freed slaves

667
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: from the South to the West coast. So they bring

668
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: in Asian workers to do this, and you know this,

669
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,959
Speaker 1: this just drives white labor insane and they just start

670
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: massacring people. And then and and you know, this happens,

671
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: and this continues like through the nineteen hundreds, like and

672
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: then the nice you know seven, there's something called the

673
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: Pacific Coast Race riots where you know this is this

674
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: is a multinational riot and it starts, I think it

675
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: starts to disconish, but by the end of it, it's

676
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 1: goes to Bellingham and like there there's there's an anti

677
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: Chinese right like in Vancouver Jesus. Yeah, and you know this,

678
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: this is this is the tradition that the shooter is

679
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: working in, right, you know, and there's there's a specificity

680
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: of sort of evangelical anti sex worker violence here, but

681
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: there's also just you know, this is this is the

682
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: modern continuation of just the ethnic cleansing attempts that you know,

683
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases succeeded. You can see this

684
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: in California if you if you if you're driving to California,

685
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: sometimes they'll just be random Buddhist temples and there's no

686
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,439
Speaker 1: Asian people there. And the reason there's no Asian people

687
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: there is because every single one of them was ran

688
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: out and the rest of the area is completely white.

689
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: But you know that the things that they built are

690
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: just still there, and I think clean. So I teach

691
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: freshman comp and a couple of other classes. So I

692
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: teach a lot of young teens just out of high school.

693
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I see all the

694
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: time is just an absolute ignorance about American complicity in

695
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: these kinds of things. Racism, the scene as something that's

696
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: in the past. There's not really a good education about

697
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: these things. So the the responsibility of whiteness in all

698
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: of these horrific events is never addressed, and so they're

699
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: just inheriting the whatever is in their family community, and

700
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: it's just it's unaddressed. And so they're coming to this

701
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: with this, you know, white innocence again, like I don't

702
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: know anything, so I couldn't have done it. And that's

703
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: part of what's being preserved by not teaching it. And

704
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: this kind of this all it all goes together. There's

705
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: this other element of white of American exceptionalism that I

706
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: see getting wrapped up in how we don't talk about

707
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: these acts of ethnic cleansing that Christopher was just going over.

708
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: Because if you look at if you look at what

709
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: actually happens in the actually you look at their death toll,

710
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: they don't sound wildly different from things that in our

711
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: lifetime have occurred in parts of them, at the least

712
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: in Africa. And part of I think why we don't

713
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: talk about it is that it would mean acknowledging that

714
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: the same kind of strains of racial mass violence um

715
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: have been are are a central part of American identity,

716
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: and we don't like to think about well, and I

717
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's worse than that because you know,

718
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: if you start doing that, right, if if you go

719
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: to the eight hundreds, you go to the anti Chinese

720
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: mass years, you have to go back further. And you

721
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: know if when when you go back in the history

722
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: of the United States and then this is happening in

723
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: the like at the same time, you know, you realize that,

724
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 1: oh yeah, wait, hold on, like this, this entire country

725
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: is built on the fact that we ethnically cleansed in

726
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: numerable about yeah. Last week, and I just want to

727
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: interject because this is I have a relevant story here. Uh.

728
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: Last week, as this news broke and we were all

729
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: digesting it, I was chatting with um, a Korean American

730
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: friend of mine and his wife is from Germany, and

731
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 1: and he said, when these things happen. And over the

732
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: past year, I've been thinking about this a lot. And

733
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: for my wife, growing up in Germany, they had they

734
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: it's illegal to deny the Holocaust. It's taught in their schools.

735
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: And I'm not here saying that Germany has everything figured out.

736
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: They obviously have a right wing problem, but this element

737
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: of their society is a forced reckoning with their history

738
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: and with their past, and it's a very, very big difference,

739
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: a stark difference from how we are raised, just with

740
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: this narrative of America being the best and the democracy

741
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: and the great experiment, and it just leaves out everything

742
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: that happened getting us to this point, you know, And

743
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: I think the purpose it is it's absolutely because because

744
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: it gives us. It gives us white people the plausible

745
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: deniability of I didn't know, I didn't do it, and

746
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: you can just shut down the conversation. They're separates like

747
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: those those people did it but not me. Well, you

748
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: still are a part of this, and it's still part

749
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: of your legacy, and the ramifications of their actions are

750
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: still here. So it's on us to to do this work.

751
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: The fact that your parents were able to get a

752
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: mortgage as a result of you benefiting from these systems,

753
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: so shut up. Yes, well, well even even with Germany,

754
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: so like so you know Germany, Well, okay, you can

755
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: talk a lot about the fact that so much of

756
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: the German economy is based on the fact that they

757
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: won't pay reparation into all the Holocaust victims because if

758
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: they did, it would destroy their g on um. But

759
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, one of the other ones. So Germany did

760
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: its own genocides in in Africa. There was the Hero

761
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: and Rockwood genocide and that one, that one they don't

762
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: they don't really recognize it. Yeah, and you know this

763
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: this is part of how they avoid sort of Holocaustic

764
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: kind belode too, because you know, Himmler's dad, I think

765
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: it's either his dad or his grandpa was like the

766
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: commanding officer in charge, like one of the commanding officers

767
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: who was in charge of the troops that did this genocide. Yeah,

768
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: and like you know, there's there's yeah, and there's there's

769
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: nothing like you know, and you don't don't really get

770
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: this Sablich in German education system, and you know, they

771
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: they they deflect blame in similar ways to sort of

772
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: the Americans do. I mean, And I think a big

773
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: part of why that happens, why why why Germany has

774
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: is allowed to get away with ignoring their colonial genocides

775
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: and is because if you call Germany to task for

776
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: their massacres of the Herrero or the the other ship

777
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: they're getting up to in Namibia, you also have to

778
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 1: acknowledge France and England or even did even worse things.

779
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: You acknowledge literally every other place. Yeah, then you have

780
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: to look at every other recentration. Camps and the treatment

781
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: of mentally ill people in Germany were modeled on US practices,

782
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: So you don't you can't force a deeper dick dick,

783
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: all right, So I partially risend my point about Germany,

784
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: but I still say that this cormoral acknowledgement of this

785
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: thing that happened is part of the part of what

786
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: we need right here. Everything was younger and kind of

787
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: more on the libertarian end of things. I was concerned

788
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: by German laws restricting free speech as related to the Holocaust,

789
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: and I've I've come around to an understanding that it

790
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: shouldn't be legal to yell fire in a crowded theater. Right.

791
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: Why is that because that is that is an active

792
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 1: speech that can directly result in human harm, so that

793
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: you don't have the right to do that. Denial of

794
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: the Holocaust, and it's the Holocaust is not specific the

795
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: only thing that denial of genocide in general, because we

796
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: could say the same thing about the Armenian genocide, which

797
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: we just last year had another surgeon. Denial of genocide

798
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: is morally identical to urging genocide because that's where it

799
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: leads to and one way you'll see this. I there.

800
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: I just got sent a couple of leaked conversations between

801
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: a group of Pacific Northwest Proud Boys where one of

802
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: them that this famous street brawler Um Tiny was was

803
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: chatting with another Proud boy about the Holocaust. Um and

804
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: someone said, well, you know it didn't happen, right, And

805
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: the way the conversation was like, well, then we should

806
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: do it, you know, and that I've seen this happen

807
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: a bunch within white supremacist spaces. It's a it's and

808
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: and oftentimes it will start as a joke, but obviously

809
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: we know that that's not where it is. It is

810
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: an act of violence to deny the Holocaust, It's an

811
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: act of violence to deny any genocide or ethnic cleansing.

812
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: These are all because when you are denying it or

813
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: when you are hiding it, you are you are saying

814
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: I'm I'm okay with this like that. That's where it

815
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: always goes to, right, That's that's that's the end result

816
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 1: of that process. And I think there's another aspect of

817
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: this that ties the Holocaust together with with with what

818
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: Christopher was talking about, with these acts of ethnic cleansing

819
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: on the West Coast, with in fact the internment of

820
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: Japanese Americans during World War two. Um, and it's the

821
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: thing we don't talk about with the Holocaust very much.

822
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: The Holocaust is often framed as well the Germans had

823
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: all these conspiratorial beliefs about Jewish people, and they did,

824
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: and that that was a significant part of it. A

825
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: huge driver of the Holocaust was purely economic, was people

826
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: wanting the things that Jewish Germans possessed, and then wanting

827
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: the things that Jewish people in other parts of the

828
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: kind treat possessed. And there were there were elements of

829
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: it that we were not that but this is a

830
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: big part of the Holocaust was what was called arianization,

831
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,240
Speaker 1: which was businesses being taken from Jewish families and given

832
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: to arians. And that was not when Christopher says like

833
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: reparations have not really been paid. That was never undone

834
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: to a large extent. And and let's just so I

835
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: grew up in central California in Marselia. All of that

836
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: farmland m was taken from Japanese immigrants when they were

837
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: put in the concentration camps and given to white farmers.

838
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: And nothing has been done to make that right either.

839
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: The great part about that is that So the first

840
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: people to call for Japanese interment was the white Californian

841
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: like farm Owners Association, which is great because you know,

842
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: the politics haven't changed basically, yeah, they you know this,

843
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 1: this is this is the thing with the white farmers.

844
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: The California white farmers don't have to farm. They stuck

845
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: at it, and so they constantly have to import different

846
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: sources of labor in order to actually do the farming

847
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,439
Speaker 1: because they can't, right, and and this is why sort

848
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: of labor politics, like you know, this is why strikes

849
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: by undocumented workers are actually extremely They tend to be

850
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: very effective in sort of like in sort of agricultural

851
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 1: with puerture California, because you know, again, if these if

852
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: if if they can't import and a lot of times

853
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: like indigenous sort of workers from Latin America, right, if

854
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: they can't do this, literally the whole system shuts down

855
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: and like the crops all die because they don't like

856
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: the white farmers all know how to do it. And

857
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: the the amount of violence that has been inflicted on

858
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: people like because these people don't want to farm and

859
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: because you know, because they have the sort of whole

860
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: racist ideology you know that this is another place where

861
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: racist ideology comes in. It's well, okay, we can subjugate

862
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: these people to get them into our farming for us,

863
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: but like God helps them, if they ever actually start

864
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: doing it on their own, we're just gonna we're gonna

865
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: take it all from them. Well, there's like, there's this

866
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: whole thing. If it's like they're destroying the Central Valley's

867
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: ability to produce anything the way they have been because

868
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: it's not sustainable and the value used to be maintained

869
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: by the indigenous peoples in certain ways, and the agricultural

870
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: practices have been completely demolishing all of that work that

871
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: was done. So if you're going to be fertile anymore instant,

872
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: if you want to be horrified, look at fig Google, like,

873
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: do some research and where the salt and sea came from,

874
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: stories about it. You know, they're essentially refusing to acknowledge

875
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: their own racism is going to kill them. It's it's

876
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: a more abus. Do we Okay, do you want to

877
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: pivot if we want to do what other sort of

878
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: Latin American connection into this? Yeah? Do you do? You

879
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: want to pivot briefly and talk about my some of

880
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: my Lisa, people who have ever existed the role of

881
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: Christian missionaries in this Yeah, I have that resounding yes.

882
00:51:58,320 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: So to get there, I want to talk about the

883
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: International Justice Mission. Can we start there? Okay? So if

884
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: we're looking at how, um, how Christians have treated sex

885
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: work and sex trafficking and all, this, one of the

886
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: things that is a really good case study of like

887
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: how this is not changed at all from the methods

888
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: that the Salvation was Army was using during the Victorian

889
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: era to today is to look at the International Justice Mission.

890
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: There's a really good article by Melissa Garrett Grant kind

891
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 1: of on rewire that gets into um, what exactly, uh

892
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: they have done to sunk Up. But basically it's the

893
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 1: same story. They're collaborating with the police. There are people

894
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: who are maybe sex workers, may not be sex workers,

895
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: but basically these are people who are poor and the

896
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: group is working with the police to facilitate raids and

897
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: then they're rescuing them and then putting them in you know,

898
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: different housing situations that are conditional on behaving in certain

899
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: ways according into the Christian you know, moral code. It's

900
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: just it's really really gross. It's really Columnists and and

901
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: and it tracks with the same way that Christian missionaries

902
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: often act when they are abroad. UM. So I I

903
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: grew up in in pretty um missions, heavy church communities.

904
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: This was part of the kind of the water I

905
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: was swimming in, and I something about it always made

906
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: me really uncomfortable, and I was finally able to put

907
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: my finger on it when I was UM abroad in

908
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: UM for Peace Corps and there would be these Christian

909
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: missionaries that would come in to Kurgesy and where I

910
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: was working UM and they would say, we're volunteers for

911
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: Peace Corps volunteers, even though they weren't and they didn't

912
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: have the right visa, and they'd be there to do

913
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: missions work, which was illegal, and they would have been

914
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: kicked out of the country they've been caught. But because

915
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: they said that they were Peace Corps volunteers, we trouble

916
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: building certain relationships to certain communities because the conditions of

917
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: Bible study being attached to English lessons made people leary

918
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: of us. And this is the same kind of stuff

919
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: that that is happening when they're quote quote rescuing these

920
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: sex workers UM and and so there's this, you know,

921
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: to tie this all together. Current American Christian evangelical purity

922
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: culture has this particular hero Jim Elliott, who UM not

923
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: to not to speculate to why we about people's sexuality

924
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: after they're dead, but like, there's a good chance this

925
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,479
Speaker 1: guy was gay, and you know that might have made

926
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: his whole purity thing a lot easier. UM anyway, UM

927
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: he so he so he was one of the missionaries

928
00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: that was in Ecuador, UM in the fifties, mid fifties, UM.

929
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: And they were trying to connect with this untouched people,

930
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: which bullshit, but they were trying to connect with this community.

931
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: They were working with the Shell Oil company for their resources.

932
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: They were staying out of a Shell station and using

933
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: the Shell plane to fly in and connect with this community. UM.

934
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: And this this community the wire anni UM killed them

935
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: and their wives stayed on and tried to connect with

936
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: this community and eventually did and lived with them, UM

937
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: and taught them English and did the whole colonization thing.

938
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: And there's a whole awful history that results from that.

939
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: But Jim Elliott's journals were turned into a book by

940
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: his wife after his death, and she wrote this book

941
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 1: about their courtship, about their their romantic relationship called passionate

942
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: and purity that she where she's codifying these ideals of

943
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, you can you can be chased, and you

944
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,479
Speaker 1: can be passionate. And you know he checked with my dad,

945
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 1: and you know, he wouldn't even kiss me until he

946
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: told me that he loved me. And he wouldn't tell

947
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: me that he loved me until he had proposed to me.

948
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: You know, all of these, all of these layers that

949
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: you see kind of reflected in the current evangelical purity

950
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: culture thinking. And so that book really influenced Josh Harris,

951
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: who wrote the seminal work I Guess Dating Goodbye and

952
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: this later renounced it Um. But a lot of this

953
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: like purity culture stuff comes from these same people who

954
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: are going into these communities with the assumption that, uh,

955
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: their way of life is wrong and needs to be corrected.

956
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 1: And I think there's a there's you know, the sort

957
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: the sort of evangelical movement. You know, you see the violence.

958
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: This is anothering sort of harping on about, but it's true.

959
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: Is you know, you get two reflections with the violence.

960
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: You get the certain imperialist violence and you get the

961
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: violence at home. And you know, like I grew up

962
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: with a like sort of a damage even in like

963
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: an evangelical college town, and like, you know, so half

964
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: of my friends like our missionaries now and then people

965
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: I didn't like I basically you know, they would they

966
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: would say things like I'm gonna go join the armies

967
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: so I can tell all Muslims m and like that

968
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: was like common. And you know this and this, you know,

969
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: you get basically both, you know, you have you have

970
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: like the there's there's very very little different sort of

971
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: ideologically even what's happening here between people who go join

972
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: the army to kill Muslims the people who sort of

973
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: are like, oh, I'm gonna go save the souls or

974
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: whatever of like indigenous people and uh in Ecuador and

975
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, the sort of the anti sex worker people

976
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: and you know, like these the just like like the

977
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: white supreme as murderers who you know, shooting up massage parlors.

978
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: It's it's the same sort of body logical apparatus either

979
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: all on a crusade. Yeah, yeah, literally, I mean if

980
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: you think about the origin of that word, well hopefully

981
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: it goes as well as the original one, like and

982
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: immediately like I'm down to step the child soldier phase.

983
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: But like, but that was the best part. What are

984
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: we here for? It? Not that as as a victim

985
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: of the child soldier phase. I reject that. I'm changing

986
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: my position. I'm with Eve now, I'm I am child

987
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: soldier neutral bold. Yeah, I'm not aging. I'm not agist.

988
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: That's where it lands for me. I'm not agist. I

989
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: think so you believe in children's rights to die about

990
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: I do. I think everyone has the right to be.

991
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: I mean I agree to an extent. I think parents

992
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: have the right to hit their parents back. But anyway,

993
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: let's just give ten year olds of cars. Um. I

994
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: think we need to make it mandatory that all truck

995
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: drivers are under the age of fourteen. I would agree

996
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: with you there. I think they would do a lot

997
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: better job. I mean, they wouldn't see over the steering whill.

998
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: But I don't know that that matters. Yeah, I mean,

999
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: we'll just cut a little people in the middle of

1000
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: the dashhole board. It will be good, It'll be fine. Um.

1001
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: None of this is very fun to talk about, um,

1002
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: except for talking about child truck drivers, which which is

1003
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: fun to It always fun. I mean, I can make

1004
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: jokes about this all day. But any time I make

1005
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: a joke about this to someone who's an army, They're like,

1006
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, that really happened, And I'm like, yeah,

1007
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: I know. I mean that's the problem in general of

1008
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: like having a trauma that isn't understood by the people

1009
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: around you, is you're you're probably most people it find

1010
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: humor helpful way of coping, and then people think that

1011
00:59:55,640 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: you're either a monster or making things up because it's

1012
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: it's seems so strange to hear people laugh about something

1013
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: like that. So do you want to you want to

1014
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: you want to jump from this to children and uh,

1015
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, Yeah, and how this is connected the children

1016
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: who kind of wind up in like focused on the

1017
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: fact that that whenever we we have these like big

1018
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: panics over sex trafficking and stuff, it's always, um, this

1019
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 1: this false idea that there's like four and five year

1020
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: olds being mass trafficked as opposed to like, well, we

1021
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: can talk about that too, we can talk about the

1022
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: whole Like the evangelical community is, you know, protecting dozens

1023
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: and dozens and dozens of sexual predators who are preying

1024
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: on the children and their Sunday schools and homes and

1025
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,439
Speaker 1: and get they're focused on we have to fix sex

1026
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: trafficking outside of this community. Yeah, there's that whole thing. No,

1027
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: I actually wanted to talk about J D. J R.

1028
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: Rush Junny Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you've told

1029
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: me about him. Yeah, So Russ juny Um. The reason

1030
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: he's relevant is this, this church that the shooter went

1031
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: to is part of a larger group of churches that

1032
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: has loose ties to h the ideological inheritance of J. R.

1033
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: Rush Juney. So Rush Junny Um was this Presbyterian philosopher.

1034
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 1: He was very libertarian, uh you know, free market Austrian

1035
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: economics kind of guy. But he also had this whole

1036
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: um interpretation of of theology that really kind of created

1037
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: what we call Christian dominionism. Now, he was a reconstructionist,

1038
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: and the idea that reconstructionists have is essentially um America

1039
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: was supposed to be a Christian nation just goes back

1040
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: to the whole like um is a William Bradford City

1041
01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: on Hill speech, he gets on the Mayflower and which

1042
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: is you know, he's they're recreating an idea of America

1043
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: that never existed. So America is supposed to be this

1044
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: Christian nation. America is the new under the New Covenant,

1045
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: replacing the Jews because the Jews sucked up and American

1046
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: Christians have inherited this status is God's people, and America

1047
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: as a nation is supposed to fulfill that. And this

1048
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: means that we have to institute biblical laws to things

1049
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: like the stoning of rebellious sons and public execution of

1050
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: the gays and all of these these other sorts of

1051
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, inhumane Old Testament codes, um. And if they're

1052
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: established according to some subjects of the reconstructionist thinkers, um.

1053
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: This is not not all of them believe this, but

1054
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:54,919
Speaker 1: a lot of them do. If those things are put

1055
01:02:54,960 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 1: in place, then Christ will return good, so kind. So

1056
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: so there's this, there's this whole and I have so

1057
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: much that I could say about this. There's this whole

1058
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: angle that like I think they're stealing some ideas from

1059
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: Antonio Grahams where they're they're talking about like the seven

1060
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: spheres of culture that they're supposed to you know, take

1061
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: over and how they're going to approach it. And there's

1062
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: a whole thing with like a d F and homeschooling

1063
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: and all that ties in. But essentially the idea of

1064
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: Christian dominion as part of the Christian mandate and having

1065
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: that tied to white supremacy. These this church community, this

1066
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: this group of um or the school of thought, also

1067
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: believes in the Curse of Ham, which the idea that

1068
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: black people are descended from Ham and Ham was cursed

1069
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: by Noah for laughing at Noah being drunk and naked

1070
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: in his tent one day. And therefore, Yeah, a lot

1071
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: of it in America is being like punishment from God,

1072
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: that is, just for laughing at being passed out they

1073
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: get in the town. I mean I laughed too, m hmm,

1074
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: because it's funny. Um. I mean it all, it all

1075
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: like you were both talking about earlier, It all kind

1076
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: of goes back like the Victorian era isn't isn't where

1077
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 1: it all starts, but it's where it all explodes. Um.

1078
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: And there's the I think Christopher said earlier about how

1079
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: colonialism in white supremacy is just kind of this nightmare

1080
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: that never ends, and that is that has been true

1081
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: for the last couple of hundred years. But I do

1082
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: think it's important to acknowledge that there's a beginning point

1083
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 1: to it. There was a period of time before all

1084
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: of this existed, and there were still plenty of problems, um,

1085
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: but they were but they were different ones, you know,

1086
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: And I think about that a lot. I think that

1087
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:58,479
Speaker 1: the fact that the Roman Empire um would have would

1088
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: have looked like the average room citizen would have looked

1089
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: like you was like if you were like, you were

1090
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: out of your mind. If you had tried to, like

1091
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: argue that people with different skin colors were different levels

1092
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 1: of human they were like, no, no, no, your level

1093
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: of humanity is determined by whether or not you're a

1094
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: citizen of the empire that I'm in, Like, it has

1095
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: nothing to do with your skin color. Like they wouldn't

1096
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: have wouldn't have gotten that because it hadn't it hadn't

1097
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: started yet. And the fact that, like the fact that

1098
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 1: this is all and a lot of what you're seeing

1099
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: in modern purity culture and in Christian dominionism is this

1100
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: desire to return to this um, this this period, this

1101
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: Victorian period where the domination was kind of at its

1102
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 1: most unquestionable, right, there was this period in which there

1103
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: was really no there was no resistance effective on a

1104
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 1: global level to white supremacist imperialism. UM. I think is

1105
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 1: is really important um, just to kind of to understand

1106
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: what it is they want to go back to, and

1107
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 1: also to understand what it looked like when they got

1108
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 1: their way, And you know, it looked like the famine Bengal,

1109
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: it looked like um, the Boxer rebellion, it looked like

1110
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: And it's also really important to know that like it

1111
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: looked like all of those things. And also it didn't exist,

1112
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: like the moral purity that they're envisioning literally never existed

1113
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: the way Christian culture was literally never existed. No, no, yeah, absolutely.

1114
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: I mean Kipling there's some some very good Kipling poems

1115
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 1: on that subject, but the one on Mandalay Bay where

1116
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: he's talking about the way in which colonial um colonial

1117
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: officers of these of these companies acted in in in Asia. Um,

1118
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 1: send me somewhere east of Suez, where the best is

1119
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: like the worst, where there ain't no tin commandments in

1120
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: a man can raise a thirst, you know this this,

1121
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: And and the fact of the matter is like these people,

1122
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 1: if they got their way, wouldn't be pure. They would

1123
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: be they would be maintaining you know, brothels for their

1124
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: own use, and they would be violating all of the

1125
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: rules that they want to impose on other people. That's

1126
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: the way it always is. Well, but you know that

1127
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: that's that's that that that's the question. Forgiveness is for

1128
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: h like it's for them, it is not. It is

1129
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: not for people they're abusing. Like, well, and that's the thing, Like,

1130
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: if you look at how they treat the story of

1131
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: King David, this is their model for political leadership. The

1132
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: story of King David is like, this guy uses his

1133
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: power as king to rape his neighbor's life and then

1134
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: sends the dude to the front lines to make sure

1135
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: he dies so that the guy never finds out that

1136
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 1: like he impregnated his wife, and and God forgives him

1137
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 1: because he repents, and he's still considered the good king,

1138
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck? Like, that's that's that's the model

1139
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 1: of good leadership. It's not that you are actually morally pure,

1140
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: it's that you've get God's job done. Yeah, well, unless

1141
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: you're a descendative ham sorry because he because he laughed

1142
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: at his at his dad's dick. Yeah, well, don't laugh

1143
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: at your dad's. If I was going to summarize the Bible,

1144
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: that would be the lesson I would take out of it.

1145
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: Um shit, Christopher, that we missed. Yeah, you no, I'll

1146
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: say one last thing about how we get out of

1147
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: this because you know, and there's no again, there's there's

1148
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: no good answers to I mean, you know there there

1149
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 1: are There are absolutely sort of like short term things

1150
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 1: you can do that have to do with you know,

1151
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 1: bysander trainings, um, you know, having community organizations that you know,

1152
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: like sort of move people around so that you know,

1153
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 1: again people people aren't isolating and can't be picked off

1154
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: like that. But I mean one of the things that

1155
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 1: I remember a lot of that I just I could

1156
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: just could not deal with was particularly Asian liberals. But

1157
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 1: we saw a lot of this was people going like, oh,

1158
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: there's this historic night at the Oscar shooting happened. How

1159
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: how could this have happened? And I you know, I

1160
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:27,879
Speaker 1: I can't think of like a sort of better indictments

1161
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 1: of politics representation than that. Right, it's oh, hey, we're

1162
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 1: finally being represented in music or whatever in film, and

1163
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 1: oh they're still killing us. You know, there's a couple

1164
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: of things that are One is that like people are

1165
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 1: using ethnics solidarity as a way to sort of mask

1166
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 1: this giant classified and you know, you you get Asian

1167
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: American groups having like Tony ju who's the founder of

1168
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:52,719
Speaker 1: door Dash, like speak at their events, and it's like, okay,

1169
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: this guy like this guy got rich by exploiting Asian workers, right,

1170
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 1: and you know you have the pack that like in

1171
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: New York for example, like Asian Americans have the highest

1172
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:06,600
Speaker 1: poverty rate of any rasion through to the city. And

1173
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: you know, you have to at some point you have

1174
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: to look at how you deal with this. And you know,

1175
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: one of one of the things going back to Storty

1176
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: of who we're talking about Ecuador, right, So you know,

1177
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: the missionaries allied with the oil companies and there's this

1178
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: sort of incredible imperial violence wreaked on them. But eventually

1179
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 1: people start to fight back. And people are finding that

1180
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 1: the whole time, but they, you know, they start to

1181
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: really effectively fight back. And there's the formation of this

1182
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: group called the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador, and

1183
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: they're able to actually, you know, they're able to push

1184
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 1: back on the colonialists, are able to push back on

1185
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 1: serve oil attraction. They're able to do this because they

1186
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: have the ability to call an uprising and just bring

1187
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: down a government. And they've done this like a nine times.

1188
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: They did this two years ago, like the the the

1189
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: army like sent units out to stop them, and they

1190
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: like haptured the army units, disarmed them and forced them

1191
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: to carry the coffins of the people they killed back

1192
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: to the capital like that. That and that, you know

1193
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 1: is the solution is like that is power And Americans

1194
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 1: don't really it looks weird to us because we have

1195
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 1: no like most Americans have never actually had power, right,

1196
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 1: have never actually had the ability to someone deploys the

1197
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: army against you and you disarmed them, right of the

1198
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 1: ability to when you know, like when when a when

1199
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:28,759
Speaker 1: a mining company hurts you, when when when your community

1200
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:32,640
Speaker 1: is under attack, to just shut down a country and

1201
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:34,840
Speaker 1: to to to force the people who think that they

1202
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 1: have power to sort of you know, to to do

1203
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,600
Speaker 1: things that make sure they don't harm you. And that

1204
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: that's the only real way out of this. And this

1205
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 1: is not just for Asian Americans that like this, This

1206
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: is the only the only way out for so like

1207
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: all of the people who have been just devastated by

1208
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: colonial files, for for black people, for indigenous people. Is

1209
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, the representation is and when to save is

1210
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 1: you actually need power m and you know, that's terrifying,

1211
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 1: especially for a lot of white people because you know,

1212
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: in some sense white people have had power, right, like

1213
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, and there's obviously varying levels of this, but

1214
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, if you're going to actually deal with this,

1215
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: you have to smash the systems that cause it, and

1216
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 1: you know that that requires power, like you know, in

1217
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 1: terms of dealing with the police, terms of dealing with

1218
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: ice and sort of dealing with the border, in terms

1219
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: of you know, dealing with the evangelical movement that's producing

1220
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 1: these killers. Right, you need power and you need some

1221
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 1: way to build it, and there's no easy way to

1222
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 1: get there, but that's that's what needs to be done.

1223
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: And I'll just say like that the religious right has

1224
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 1: been doing this very effectively for the last thirty years

1225
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: with their grassroots movements, you know, based off of Phil Shlapleys,

1226
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 1: you know, fundraising and mailing model. Like they've got it

1227
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: down and the left really just hasn't figured it out yet. No,

1228
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 1: in part because the left can't stop fighting over I

1229
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 1: don't know whether or not the real problem with the

1230
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 1: Atlanta shooting is that people are calling the Chinese government

1231
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 1: out for what's being done to the weakers or whatever,

1232
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 1: like there's these everything is so atomized it's impossible to

1233
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 1: actually build power. Not impossible, but it's not being done

1234
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,600
Speaker 1: effectively right now. You know. Well, I could say, you know,

1235
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: last year we had one moment we did were yeah,

1236
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 1: but we burned on the police when we burned on

1237
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: police stations, Like I remember it again, yeah, you know

1238
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 1: like mind graft. Yeah, well you know I remember when

1239
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: when when the police like lost control of of like

1240
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 1: of Michigan Avenue in Chicago, like they just couldn't hold it.

1241
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, you know that that that that that can happen,

1242
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,720
Speaker 1: Like that's a that's the thing that we did. Ye yeah,

1243
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 1: there's and I And that's part of why we're getting

1244
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: very off topic here. But it's part of why there

1245
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 1: is a concerted effort to not remember last year that way. UM,

1246
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 1: because what last year was was a large chunk of

1247
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: the population proving that if enough people get on the

1248
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: same page about two or three things, there is nothing

1249
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 1: that the military and the police can do UM, or

1250
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: at least not that they're able to do. There's nothing

1251
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 1: the police can do in the military largely won't UM.

1252
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,600
Speaker 1: But that's not a thing that that's the thing that

1253
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 1: everyone who has is an elected leader has invested interest

1254
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 1: in us not well. And you know, and this is

1255
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 1: going back to history. Books don't talk about the ways

1256
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: that it's been successful, and kids are kept in the

1257
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 1: dark because we're not given the tools to dismantle the

1258
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 1: master's house. Yeah. Um, I don't want to plug two

1259
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 1: books here real fast about purity culture stuff, if that's okay, Yeah,

1260
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: if you want to, if you want to go the

1261
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: other route of you know, de colonizing your mind. Um,

1262
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 1: I think that Jessica Valenti is the purity myth is

1263
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 1: excellent for a start on this and talking about how

1264
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: virginity is vague, it doesn't exist, and all those things.

1265
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 1: And I think a good um, you know, pairing with

1266
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 1: that would be Anglich Hands Angela Chen's Ace. It just

1267
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: came out, um this last year, and it's about a

1268
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 1: sexuality and kind of like really breaking down the you know, compulsory,

1269
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: heteronormative my mindset that we grew up in. Awesome, Thank you. Well,

1270
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 1: all right, Christopher, you got anything you want to plug

1271
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 1: before we roll out today and hopefully don't. Yeah, I

1272
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:34,680
Speaker 1: have a I don't know. Yeah, I think this has

1273
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 1: been a rough few weeks for you. Yeah, it's it's

1274
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 1: been bad. If you want to see me just completely

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01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 1: fall apart on a regular basis, um, I'm at it

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01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 1: me h r three on Twitter or the ice must

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01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 1: be destroyed. Guy, I regularly implode. Um I also okay,

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01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 1: I swear I do actually update this and sometimes it

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01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: was once a month. But I have a substat called

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01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: the long twenty one century. You can also see me implode.

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01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: Yeah awesome, thank you well, thank you both, And for

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01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: those of you at home, remember never laugh at your

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01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,640
Speaker 1: dad's dick, all right, and uh that's gonna do it

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01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 1: for us. Here at the Worst Year Ever, um hie.

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01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 1: Also to see you later. Everything everything so dull again.

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01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 1: I tried. Worst Year Ever is a production of I

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01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit

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01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:43,639
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.