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Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 2: And I am Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. We're going

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Speaker 2: into the vault. Going down to the vault. This is

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Speaker 2: part four of our series called The Washing of the Waters.

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Speaker 2: This episode originally published on March twenty third, twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: and I think it closes out this series, so we

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Speaker 2: hope you enjoy.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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Speaker 1: name is Robert.

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Speaker 2: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with the

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Speaker 2: fourth and final part of our series on the Healing Waters,

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Speaker 2: the belief held by many throughout history that you could

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Speaker 2: cure your illnesses and improve your health by bathing or

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Speaker 2: immersing yourself in water, often water with special properties, maybe

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Speaker 2: water of a certain temperature like hot baths or cold baths,

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Speaker 2: or water from a special source such as a particular

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Speaker 2: warm mineral spring. Now. In previous episodes, as a brief refresher,

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Speaker 2: we talked about the prehistoric emergence of bathing culture and

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Speaker 2: the ancient religious associations between bathing and spiritual purity in

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Speaker 2: the realm of healing. We talked about ancient Greek and

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Speaker 2: Roman theories of medicine, such as humoral theory, which sometimes

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Speaker 2: had the consequence of recommending bathing as a cure for

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Speaker 2: all sorts of health problems, and we also talked about

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Speaker 2: the importance of baths and spas in the culture and

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Speaker 2: civic infrastructure of the Roman Empire. We discussed some interesting

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Speaker 2: and strange examples of spas with alleged healing powers that

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Speaker 2: contain living organisms such as blood worms or fish, that

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Speaker 2: are themselves thought to in some way be a mechanism

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Speaker 2: of healing. And in the episode just previous to this one,

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Speaker 2: we discussed and I thought fascinating medical history paper from

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Speaker 2: a few decades back analyzing records of treatment that made

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Speaker 2: use of the thermal waters of Bath, England, and this

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Speaker 2: paper argued that while yeah, most of the conditions people

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Speaker 2: thought could be cured by bathing in hot springs throughout

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Speaker 2: history were probably just benefiting from the placebo effect, there

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Speaker 2: is pretty decent evidence for thinking that the immersion treatments

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Speaker 2: at Bath were genuinely directly effective at curing paralysis caused

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Speaker 2: by chronic lead poisoning. Because according to the author, sitting

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Speaker 2: up to your neck in warm water increases the rate

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Speaker 2: in which your body purges lead content through urine. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: after all that, we're back today to finish off this

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Speaker 2: series with a few more interesting tidbits. Now, one of

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Speaker 2: the things I did want to briefly talk about is

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Speaker 2: that a lot of the mineral springs with alleged healing

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Speaker 2: powers that we've mentioned so far have been in places

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Speaker 2: that were formerly part of the Roman Empire. And I

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Speaker 2: think this should not be surprising, given the importance of

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Speaker 2: bathing in Roman culture in general, but especially in the

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Speaker 2: Greek and Roman theories of medicine we discussed in the

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Speaker 2: previous parts of the series, and in fact you can

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Speaker 2: still see the lingering effects of this. There are alleged

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Speaker 2: healing spas all throughout Europe that go way way back

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Speaker 2: that can be traced back to Roman times. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think we should assume that the association of some

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Speaker 2: forms of bathing with healing is just like an odd

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Speaker 2: unique belief contingent on some amount of Roman cultural heritage,

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Speaker 2: because I think it seems that people in many places

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Speaker 2: around the world, at various times, have come to think

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Speaker 2: that they can be healed by bathing, by bathing in

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Speaker 2: general or through the specific waters of some particular mineral spring.

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Speaker 2: And so you can find examples of this from around

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Speaker 2: the world. There was one that I ended up doing

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Speaker 2: kind of a deep dive on. I was reading about

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Speaker 2: the Kittigata Hot Springs of Uganda. So the Kittigata Hot

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Speaker 2: Springs are They're a system of geothermal springs in southwest Uganda.

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Speaker 2: I've seen the name Kittygata translated as both warm water

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Speaker 2: and as warm place or good place. And there is

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Speaker 2: a town of the same name located about two kilometers

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Speaker 2: northwest of the springs. And these waters are said to

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Speaker 2: collect in two side by side pools, and they are

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Speaker 2: believed by many to have healing properties, so much so

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Speaker 2: that they are or at least they were, as of

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Speaker 2: the sources I was reading, which were some Uganda newspaper

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Speaker 2: articles from roughly ten years ago or so. At that time,

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Speaker 2: they were being visited by hundreds of people every day,

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Speaker 2: both locals and tourists, tourists from within Uganda and tourists internationally.

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Speaker 2: And I was reading about the springs in a series

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Speaker 2: of articles from a Ugandan English language newspaper called new Vision,

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Speaker 2: which is based out of Kampala. So one of the

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Speaker 2: articles is called the Healing Hot Springs. It was published

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Speaker 2: in February twenty fourteen by Chris Mugasha. And in this

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Speaker 2: article the author actually describes a visit he had to

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Speaker 2: the springs and describes some basic facts about them and

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Speaker 2: sort of how they're used by the people. So Rabbi

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Speaker 2: attached them pictures of the Kiddy Gotta Springs. You can

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Speaker 2: see that they are surrounded by some very interesting rock formations.

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Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what sort of geology forms the

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Speaker 2: rocks like this, but you can see that all around

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Speaker 2: the pools there are these strange, beautiful, interesting kind of

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Speaker 2: like crags poking up in all directions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, the sense of the rocks being burst

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Speaker 1: out by swelling from beneath.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, according to Mugasha's article here, the springs are

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Speaker 2: divided into a section that's used by men, and then

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Speaker 2: a section used by women and children. And then also

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Speaker 2: there are some people who don't actually want to stay

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Speaker 2: and bathe in person with everybody else. And he says

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Speaker 2: they bring jerry cans and fill them up with hot

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Speaker 2: spring water to carry back home, and the thermal pools

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Speaker 2: also vary by temperature. There's one area that apparently has

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Speaker 2: comfortably warm water, while the other has water that the

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Speaker 2: author describes as hot enough to prepare porridge or cook

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Speaker 2: an egg.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a feature of various hot springs that

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Speaker 1: I was reading about, just because as the hot spring

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can or should get into it. There's

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Speaker 1: some very dangerous hot springs out there in the world,

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Speaker 1: and you should definitely obey any signage or rules and

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Speaker 1: regulations surrounding them. But then there are also plenty of

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Speaker 1: complexes where if you know the right place to go

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Speaker 1: in a spring complex, then you'll be all right because

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Speaker 1: that's where the water will be warm and not hot

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Speaker 1: enough to cook eggs.

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Speaker 2: Right, And it seemed from what I was reading that

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Speaker 2: the area with water hot enough to cook an egg

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Speaker 2: may still be used for some things, but I doubt

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Speaker 2: people are like getting in in that water and hanging

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Speaker 2: out there for a long time, because you don't want

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Speaker 2: to be the egg.

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Speaker 1: Though this is in this topic, this is not something

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Speaker 1: I researched, but this might be something we might have

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Speaker 1: to put a pin in to come back to in

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Speaker 1: discussing like the history of cooking, you know, because we've

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Speaker 1: talked about the importance of natural springs, both hot and cold,

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Speaker 1: to ancient peoples. I wonder how this factors or doesn't

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Speaker 1: factor into the history of boiling as a cooking method.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea, but that is an interesting question. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: maybe before we had fire, did anybody ever try to

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Speaker 2: like boil their food in a hot spring? I don't

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Speaker 2: know what evidence of that there would be left over.

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Speaker 1: If they did. Yeah, that would be the thing, right anyway.

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Speaker 2: So the author here says that people visit the springs

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Speaker 2: for multiple reasons. So some people it's it seems to

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Speaker 2: be just recreational. People come for pleasure and relaxation and

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Speaker 2: the hot waters. Maybe they come after work to chill out,

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Speaker 2: or they come to admire the area's natural beauty. But

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Speaker 2: he says that the majority of people there are looking

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Speaker 2: for healing of some kind. And an earlier article in

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Speaker 2: the same newspaper I read in New Vision. This article

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Speaker 2: was by Ali Wasswa from August twenty thirteen, mentions people

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Speaker 2: coming to the springs hoping for cures to a wide

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Speaker 2: range of health issues, both minor and severe. So this

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Speaker 2: includes everything from acne to cancer and While many people

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Speaker 2: claim to have experienced improvements after bathing in the water,

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Speaker 2: Wasswa's article cites some doubts about the efficacy of these

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Speaker 2: cures from a researcher named Moses Kakaya who was affiliated

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Speaker 2: with an organization called Save for Health Uganda that appears

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Speaker 2: to be a Ugandan public health Inngo, and the article

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Speaker 2: says that this team investigated the springs and said they

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Speaker 2: found the waters had no special healing properties. Mugasha's article

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Speaker 2: mentions that to the extent the waters do have any

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Speaker 2: healing properties, if they do, those could possibly be based

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Speaker 2: in specific mineral contents of the water. We've discussed some

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Speaker 2: possibilities of those kinds with other springs, but also the

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Speaker 2: claims of healing could simply be from the heat of

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Speaker 2: the water, feeling good, alleviating pain and swollen joints and

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Speaker 2: things like that, or just from easing stress, you know,

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Speaker 2: helping people relax and other quote psychotherapeutic effects. Now, this

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Speaker 2: article and another article also by Mugasha from the month

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Speaker 2: before mention threats to the springs, which is something I

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Speaker 2: think we haven't really thought about that much yet, but

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Speaker 2: that hot springs are not necessarily an eternal phenomenon or

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Speaker 2: even a semi eternal phenomenon, because even though they are

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Speaker 2: heated by the rocks from deep down below they you know,

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Speaker 2: they still are subject to hydrodynamic effects and so like

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Speaker 2: changes of what's going on where water drains, where water

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Speaker 2: goes can affect how a hot spring works. And so

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Speaker 2: these two articles mention some threat to the springs. So

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Speaker 2: the article from a month before by the same author

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Speaker 2: reports complaints from locals that construction from a nearby highway

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Speaker 2: has had negative effects on the springs. Basically, it seems

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Speaker 2: that they're claiming water from a nearby wetland system was

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Speaker 2: diverted because of roadwork and this has led to flooding

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Speaker 2: of the spring. And of course flooding of the spring

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Speaker 2: is like mixing water from other sources, which causes the

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Speaker 2: water to become tepid.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants to travel to a tepid spring.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And the later article by Mugasha also mentions changes

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Speaker 2: in weather patterns due to climate change possibly having an

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Speaker 2: effect because changing rain patterns mean that the increased flooding

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Speaker 2: of the nearby river also means that it runs over

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Speaker 2: into the spring, and this results. I think if I'm

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Speaker 2: understanding right once again with the river water coming into

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Speaker 2: the spring water and you know, kind of like diluting it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely to your point of these springs like those

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Speaker 1: are environmental conditions and they can be altered either intentionally

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Speaker 1: or accidentally exactly.

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Speaker 2: And so this article describes people who were local people

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Speaker 2: who were trying to protect the spring having to like

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Speaker 2: stack up essentially sort of sandbags, like bags of gravel

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Speaker 2: to try to block the flow, the inflow of water

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Speaker 2: from other sources into the spring.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: Now I was trying to find a scientific paper directly

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Speaker 2: testing the alleged healing properties of this spring in particular

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Speaker 2: because again, you know, one of the articles mentions an

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Speaker 2: investigation by that Ugandan public Health NGO about its medical properties.

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Speaker 2: I didn't come across anything, so I can't comment with

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Speaker 2: any confidence about whether these springs would have any health

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Speaker 2: effects other than placebo. But especially since that paper we

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Speaker 2: read in the last episode arguing that that SPA therapy

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Speaker 2: could have actual effects on chronic lead poisoning in particular,

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Speaker 2: and again that was the art, was that it worked

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Speaker 2: by increasing the rate at which lad as purge from

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Speaker 2: the body through urine. I wonder, you know, I wonder

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Speaker 2: if there are other conditions where people might be getting

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Speaker 2: some health improvements through a surprising mechanism other than just maybe, say,

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Speaker 2: you know, the very real effects of relaxing in nice

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Speaker 2: warm water.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you always have to at least keep the door

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Speaker 1: open to such a possibility, even if in many cases

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Speaker 1: it seems perhaps unlikely based on what we understand currently. Now,

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Speaker 1: as long as we're speaking about, you know, other international

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Speaker 1: examples of healing waters, I felt like we should at

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Speaker 1: least acknowledge that the River Ganges in India and Bangladesh

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Speaker 1: has long been held as a traditional place of healing

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Speaker 1: via immersion. Again, not a natural you know, spring, hot

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Speaker 1: spring and could spring, et cetera, but a great river.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. This is actually a subtopic that I became very

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Speaker 2: interested in when we first started looking at the series.

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Speaker 2: But then I got kind of overwhelmed, and I like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it seems like the Ganges would have to be an

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Speaker 2: entire series on its own.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, there's just so much to it. You've got

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Speaker 1: glacier snow and permafrost melt. You've got discussions of supposedly

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Speaker 1: beneficial bacteriophages, antibiotic resistant bacteria that are not beneficial. Then

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Speaker 1: you have to deal with topics such as pollution as

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Speaker 1: well as all of this on top of a rich

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Speaker 1: tradition of religious significance. So yeah, I think it's something

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Speaker 1: we'd have to come back to and cover in more

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Speaker 1: depth in the future. But at the same time, we

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Speaker 1: didn't want to give the impression that we were just

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Speaker 1: overlooking it right now. Another example of spring and spa

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Speaker 1: culture I wanted to bring up, just briefly, is, of

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Speaker 1: course Japan. Japan has a very rich tradition of spas

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Speaker 1: and thermal springs, and I believe we previously alluded to

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Speaker 1: the Japanese macaques who famously immersed themselves in hot springs

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Speaker 1: and also do so communally. So that's a great example

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Speaker 1: non human primates engaging in this very activity that humans

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Speaker 1: have enjoyed for so long. So I've read that they're

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Speaker 1: somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty five thousand hot spring

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Speaker 1: sources or on sen throughout Japan. I got an email

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Speaker 1: recently about a tour of hot springs in Japan eighteen

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Speaker 1: days long. Looked amazing, but just you know, it basically

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Speaker 1: shows that, yeah, you can travel to Japan and largely

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Speaker 1: just do hot springs and it'll be enough to fill

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Speaker 1: eighteen days worth of travel. Now, one in particular that

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Speaker 1: I thought was pretty interesting, and I have to stress

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Speaker 1: this is not actually an example of a spring system

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Speaker 1: where you can do much or really any bathing. But

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Speaker 1: it's called Chinoki Jigoku, and it's in Bepou, Japan. And

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Speaker 1: here you'll find the aid Hells of Bepu. I think

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Speaker 1: I've sometimes seen the count of seven, but I believe

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Speaker 1: eight is the right count. There's and these are translated,

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Speaker 1: of course from the Japanese. There's sea hell, white pond hell,

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Speaker 1: devil mountain hell, mountain Hell, alligator hell, cooking pot hell,

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Speaker 1: which this is actually the case cooking pod hell. These

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Speaker 1: are all thermal springs and is the and as the

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Speaker 1: name implies, many of them are really hot. Cooking pot

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Speaker 1: hell is where you can actually cook food, and there

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Speaker 1: there's a long standing tradition of cooking food in this

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Speaker 1: particular thermal spring. There's tornado Hell, and then there is

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Speaker 1: blood pond hell or bloody hell. Pond.

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Speaker 2: Is it red?

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Speaker 1: It is very red. Yeah, you can look up pictures

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Speaker 1: of this. It's it's it's too hot to get into.

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Speaker 1: It's it's basically hot enough to cook food in itself.

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Speaker 1: It has a deep red color that I believe is

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Speaker 1: due to both like clay content and iron oxide.

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Speaker 2: I would have assumed red bacteria.

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Speaker 1: All of these these hells, all these ponds, these are

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Speaker 1: tourist destinations. You can go and visit them, and I

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Speaker 1: think they have if I'm understanding correctly from the information

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Speaker 1: I was looking at, they have smaller pools for like

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Speaker 1: soaking your feet in as a visitor. So even though

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Speaker 1: you can't stick your feet directly into many of these hells,

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Speaker 1: and I think Alligator hell As actually has alligators in it,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want to stick your feet in there either,

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Speaker 1: But at any rate, they do have some smaller pools

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Speaker 1: that I guess are fed or partially fed by the

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Speaker 1: actual spring waters that you can get your feet wet in.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea that were alligators in Japan.

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Speaker 1: They might be important. I'm not sure what their status is.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, they're definitely alligators here, no matter where they

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Speaker 1: came from. I don't care.

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Speaker 2: Where your alligators come from. I just want there to

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Speaker 2: be alligators. They've got to be alligators in Alligator hell.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I believe they come through on that front. All right, well,

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Speaker 1: let's get back into the healing waters though away from

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Speaker 1: the alligator waters and the egg boiling waters. So we've

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Speaker 1: already talked a bit in these episodes of about traditional

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Speaker 1: healing waters potentially having something specific in them, something in

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Speaker 1: the contents of the waters that enable healing in human bathers.

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Speaker 1: And in some cases these springs end up having something

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Speaker 1: in them that in some cases where a particular element

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Speaker 1: in the water is also utilized in modern medical treatments

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Speaker 1: one way or the other. So it's tempting to wonder, well,

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Speaker 1: if these springs maybe offer the same benefits for those

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Speaker 1: who simply immerse themselves in the water or drink of

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Speaker 1: the waters.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so not that this would happen, but for example,

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Speaker 2: it would be like, you know, a seedaminifen is the

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Speaker 2: is the active ingredient in thaileanol, And then maybe we discover, oh,

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Speaker 2: there is a spring that naturally has a seedamenifen content

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Speaker 2: in it, and you wonder if we're people like getting

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Speaker 2: their pretailenol thailanol from this spring.

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Speaker 1: Well, that would that would be a bad idea for

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Speaker 1: number obvious reasons there, thinking about you know, controlled dosages

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Speaker 1: of something in a general medication versus how much are

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Speaker 1: you getting out of the water, how much you can

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Speaker 1: if you're drinking it or potentially absorbing it through your skin.

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Speaker 2: Yes, calibration of dosage would would seem to be a

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Speaker 2: big problem with this, So.

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Speaker 1: So definitely something to keep in mind as we go

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Speaker 1: into a couple of specific examples, and I think they're

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Speaker 1: both pretty fun specific examples too, in that they both

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Speaker 1: have connections to our home state of Georgia. Here in

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Speaker 1: the United States, we don't often get to cover things

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Speaker 1: that are that are present in Georgia or Georgia history.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to start with lithia water. This is

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Speaker 1: mineral water marked by the presence of lithium salts. Now,

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Speaker 1: to be clear, most of what we're talking about with

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Speaker 1: lithia water concerns its consumption, though I have read that

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Speaker 1: sweet Water Park Hotel this is a luxury resort which

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Speaker 1: operated in Lithiu's Rings, Georgia during the heyday of lithium

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Speaker 1: water tourism. In Georgia's Douglas County also offered lithia vapor bats,

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Speaker 1: which we're said to be very popular. I included an

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Speaker 1: old illustration of what this I guess may have consisted

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Speaker 1: of for you here, Joe.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so what we're looking at here up here to

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Speaker 2: be wooden boxes in which men are situated with their

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Speaker 2: heads poking out of a hole in a wooden plank,

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Speaker 2: so it's like they're in a pillory, but well, I

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Speaker 2: guess without the wrists poking out, so it's just the

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Speaker 2: head poking out of the pillory. And then there is

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Speaker 2: steam shooting out of the edges of the box, so

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00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 2: you can you can tell it must be quite warm

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Speaker 2: and moist on the inside.

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Speaker 1: Yes, now none of this is going on today, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you ever make it up to

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Speaker 1: Sweetwater Creek State Park, Joe, this is the same area.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a great place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful place. But back in the day, back

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Speaker 1: at the like the the end of the eighteen hundreds

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Speaker 1: beginning of the nineteen hundreds, this was a very popular

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Speaker 1: destination for well to do folks such as the Vanderbilts

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Speaker 1: such as Mark Twain. This particular Sweetwater Park Hotel was

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Speaker 1: again luxury resort. People came from all over to partake

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Speaker 1: of the of the healing powers of Lithia waters. The

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Speaker 1: hotel burned down in nineteen twelve, so you know it's

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Speaker 1: not even there as a historical location anymore.

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Speaker 2: This is funny that you mentioned Mark Twain, because he

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Speaker 2: also came up in a in a research tangent that

356
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Speaker 2: I ended up not including. But he he wrote a

357
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Speaker 2: piece about a place like a spa. He went to

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Speaker 2: somewhere in Europe. I think it was in France, and

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Speaker 2: it's called I don't even know how to pronounce the

360
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Speaker 2: name of this place. The name it was called ai X.

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Speaker 2: Do you know how you say that?

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Speaker 1: I do not.

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Speaker 2: Let's call it I. He went to I in I

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Speaker 2: think it's France, and he wrote a piece about it

365
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Speaker 2: called I Paradise of the Rheumattics. So I guess Twain

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Speaker 2: was into veryvarious kinds of like hot wet healing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and he was very well traveled for the day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I was reading a little bit more about this

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Speaker 1: whole fad around lithio waters, and I was reading a

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Speaker 1: paper titled Lithium Treatment in Clinical Medicine History, Current Status

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Speaker 1: in Future Use, published in the Journal of Cell Science

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Speaker 1: and Therapy in twenty seventeen by Duval and Galachio. And

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Speaker 1: this was interesting point out that lithia water became a

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Speaker 1: health fad around eighteen fifty and was especially big and

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Speaker 1: again the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds. It

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Speaker 1: was thought to treat gout, anxiety, various nervous conditions, and

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Speaker 1: a whole slew of other ailments. So a similar situation

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00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 1: that we found, you know, discussing any of these healing waters.

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Speaker 1: What does it treat? Well? What you got going on? Right?

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Speaker 2: A lot of things. So it's interesting they mentioned gout

382
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: because that did come up in the paper about Bath,

383
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Speaker 2: specifically as one of the lead poisoning associated conditions that

384
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Speaker 2: the physicians at Bath thought could be cured by long

385
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 2: periods of immersion. But another thing about gout at Bath

386
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: was one of the purposes of like recording all this

387
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 2: data at the charity hospital there to say, you know,

388
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Speaker 2: we really can prove that these waters are providing a benefit,

389
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: was to try to attract rich patients who had gout.

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Speaker 1: Well. It is often referred to as the disease of kings, right, yeah,

391
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 1: disease of the upper class clientele. Yeah. Now, the author's

392
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Speaker 1: note here that though even though there was you know,

393
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 1: this boom in Lithia water and the healing powers of lithium.

394
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: The authors know that there was almost no mention of

395
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Speaker 1: lithium in psychiatry papers of the time, so bottling lithia

396
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: waters became big business. But it took a serious dive

397
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 1: in the US when the US government got involved. So

398
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: the US Bureau of Chemistry, this was a precursor to

399
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: the FDA. They examined the waters on the market, the

400
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: lithio waters, and there was lithio waters coming from Lithium

401
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: springs and Georgia, but also from other places. And they

402
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: tested these waters out and they found that they contained

403
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: little to know lithium, and it was concluded that whatever

404
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: results people were experiencing were mainly due to just drinking water.

405
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting and.

406
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, which kind of goes back to what we were

407
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, like earlier in the last episode, like

408
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: even if the treatment itself is doing nothing else, then

409
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: perhaps you're drinking more water than usual, you're drinking less

410
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: beer or what have you.

411
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

412
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when this happened, when the US Bureau of

413
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: Chemistry chimed in, well lithium proponents, they pivoted more to

414
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: the use of lithium tablets, which the authors here point

415
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: out could be properly measured, you know, you could be

416
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: a little more certain about how much lithium you're giving people.

417
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: But then there was kind of like a power creep

418
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: with the lithium tablets. The concentrations increased and the dangers

419
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: of lithium toxicity became more appair, all while the actual

420
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: therapeutic properties of lithium consumption seemed just unverifiable. So therapeutic

421
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: use of lithium eventually just went out of fashion. I

422
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: found a couple of the original scathing reviews of lithio

423
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: water from the time period collected in The Checkered History

424
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: of Lithium and Medicine by Stroe, Bush and Jefferson in

425
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties Pharmacy and History, Volume twenty two, number two.

426
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: Let's hear these reviews.

427
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're good, so the US Bureau of Chemistry

428
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: said at the time, in a review by Charles Harrington, MD. Quote,

429
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: this water claims to be a cure for almost all

430
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: ills to which flesh is air, and to contain over

431
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: fourteen grains of lithium salts per gallon. It proves to

432
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: be an exceedingly hard water, practically free from organic matter,

433
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 1: absolutely free from lithia, but rich and undesirable lime salts.

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00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: Priceless.

435
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really brings the hammer down. And then there's

436
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: another case. The Supreme Court of the District of Columbia

437
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: had this to say concerning waters from Buffalo Lithia Springs,

438
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: Virginia at the time. Quote, for a person to obtain

439
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: a therapeutic dose of lithium by drinking Buffalo lithia water,

440
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: he would have to drink from one hundred and fifty

441
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: thousand to two hundred and twenty five thousand gallons of

442
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: water per day. It was further testified without contradiction that

443
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: Potomac River water contains five times as much lithium per

444
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: gallon as the water in controversy.

445
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 2: Oh amazing. So like, the one thing you can be

446
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: sure about with lithium water is that it doesn't really

447
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: have any lithium.

448
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, these were these were the findings at the time.

449
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 2: Now, it's interesting that you mentioned lithium went out of

450
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: fashion as a health treatment or a mood treatment, because

451
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: while I'm certainly not on the cutting edge of a psychopharmacology,

452
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: I do believe that lithium has been used in the

453
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: modern era as a psychiatric treeatment, hasn't it.

454
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And that's the thing that I guess can

455
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: for us, like retroactively, can be kind of confusing about

456
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: all this because because lithium does become an important treatment,

457
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: specifically for bipolar disorder, this wasn't discovered until nineteen forty nine.

458
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: That's when American psychiatrist John Kade discovered that it could

459
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: be used as a mood stabilizer for bipolar disorder, as

460
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: opposed to resorting to lobotomy or electroconvulsive therapy, which were

461
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: kind of the standards of the day. So that was

462
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine. The treatment became more prominent and more

463
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: covered by I believe nineteen fifty two, and it was

464
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: approved by the FDA in the nineteen seventies. And I've

465
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: read that it remains an effective treatment, though the authors

466
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: of this particular paper about the history of lithium as

467
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: a treatment, they point out that it still remains in

468
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: some circles somewhat controversial due to toxicity and side effects.

469
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: So you know, it's I guess with all say case

470
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: with a lot of medications, you know, it's like there's

471
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: it has a definite usage, but you also have to

472
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: be aware of the potential side effects to it, and

473
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: some discussion still remains. Yeah, So to come back to

474
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: wondering if lithio water springs could have offered relief to

475
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: individual suffering from specific neurological maladies, I don't know. Again,

476
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, no expert on any of this, but it

477
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: seems iffy based on what we've looked at, mainly because

478
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: of concentration issues with the water itself and the risk

479
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: of toxicity and side effects if higher quantities were obtained

480
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: from the water, which it doesn't seem like is necessarily

481
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: the case with any of these naturally occurring lithia spring waters.

482
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like from what you've been talking

483
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 2: about that carefully managing dosage of lithium is one of

484
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: the crucial factors in modern prescriptions, and so like, if

485
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: you're just gulping down water that has some questionable amount

486
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: of lithium content, that seems like you're either maybe not

487
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: getting enough for it to make much of a difference,

488
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 2: or you risk getting too much and that is highly toxic.

489
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just I don't think the concentrations in

490
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: just out there in the natural occurring spring waters would

491
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: be high enough to even really register for you. Now

492
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: you can still buy and drink lithia waters from different springs,

493
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: though it's not held up as I think the miracle

494
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: cure at once was, though I don't know. It kind

495
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: of depends on branding and fads. I guess from what

496
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: I can tell, it contains lithium by the micrograms, though,

497
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: rather than the milligrams which would be involved in therapeutic doses.

498
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: So I think you'd find yourself, even with definite lithio

499
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: water that you might purchase, you'd still have to drink

500
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: those gallons of it, those hundreds of thousands of gallons

501
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: of it per day to get the levels that would

502
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: reach anything like a therapeutic dosage. Now on this count

503
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: of concerned lithia springwater. Thanks to our listener Sean for

504
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: writing in on this concerning a particular Irish well, the

505
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: well at glenn Nannialt. I've read that this area is

506
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: also called Valley of the Mad and may date back

507
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: to the twelfth century. I don't know what the lithium

508
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: levels are this well. I can't find any data on that,

509
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: but I don't know based on what we've looked at.

510
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: I think it's a safe bet that it did not

511
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: contain or does not contain therapeutic amounts of lithium, and

512
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: that the connection here is just a coincidence. And also

513
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: worth noting that lithium springs in North America likewise tend

514
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: to predate any modern medical or scientific understanding, and we're

515
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: utilized by indigenous peoples long before the arrival of westerners.

516
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: Well that was very interesting digression. What else have you

517
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: got for me?

518
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: Oh? Well, we should also talk about potentially radioactive spring waters.

519
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: Nothing better for your gout than radioactive spring waters.

520
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, specifically radium springs, So tarifer. We've talked about radium

521
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: on the show before, but radium is a highly radioactive

522
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: alkaline earth metal discovered in eighteen ninety eight by Pierre

523
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: and Marie Curie. They discovered it by noting the radioactivity

524
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: in pitch blend radioactive uranium rich mineral relative to the

525
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: uranium it actually contains. They refined several tons of the

526
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: stuff of residues down to zero point one grams of

527
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: pure radium by nineteen oh two, and the isolated radium

528
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen ten. Now, radium is important historically, you know,

529
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: tying into the work of the cures here, but its

530
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: commercial uses have long been very limited. So formerly it

531
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: was used in the creation of radio luminescent devices, and

532
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: it was also formally used in the medical treatment of cancer,

533
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: but has largely been replaced by stronger and less costly

534
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: artificial radioisotopes. One particular example of the radioluminescent topic here

535
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: there was a luminous paint known as Undark, created by

536
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: the United States Radium Corporation, noted for its connection to

537
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: the so called radium girls factory workers who contracted radiation

538
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: poisoning from painting with the stuff.

539
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: Yes, and that is a ghastly story if you want

540
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: to go read more about it. The luminescent radium paints

541
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: were used to like maybe illuminate the watch hands on,

542
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: you know, the dials on little clocks and watches and stuff,

543
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: for other glow in the dark purposes. And it was

544
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: glowing because the phosphorescent elements in the paint were being

545
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: bombarded by radiation from the radium content. So yeah, obviously

546
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: that was not good for humans.

547
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but at the time this was we have to

548
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: put things in context. In the early twentieth century, there

549
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: was a great deal of radium fever going on, and

550
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: there was also not much in the way of regulation

551
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: of the stuff, so there were more than a few

552
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: medical quacks out there, you know, jumping in to make

553
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: some money off of the radium craze. So you saw

554
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: products like ratathor salts for supposed medicinal use, or the

555
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: radium or revigator. This would it was a radium lined

556
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: water vessel for your drinking water. But then on the

557
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 1: same count you also saw various products that either couldn't

558
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: or just didn't actually put radium into the product, but

559
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: really wanted a slice of the pie, so they included

560
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: radium in the brand name, such as Radium Brand Creamery butter.

561
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: This is an actual nineteen thirties product. I included the

562
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: label here for you, Joe, with this beautiful image of

563
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: these cattle drinking from some sort of a pond or

564
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: perhaps naturally occurring spring. The sun is rising or setting

565
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: in the background, and it says Radium Brand Creamery Butter.

566
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: Now, can I hope that this butter had just as

567
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: much radium content as the bottled lithium water actually had

568
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 2: lithium content means.

569
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: None, right right? Yeah? This apparently had no actual radium

570
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: in it, But it was just getting in on the excitement,

571
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: like radium equals health and therefore, you know, there was

572
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: nobody to say you couldn't shouldn't do this. And there

573
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: are numerous examples of this sort of marketing, including the

574
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: non radioactive radium neutex condoms of the day.

575
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: Oh but again not actually made with radium, right.

576
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: And there are other examples of actually radioactive quack products

577
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: from the twentieth century, including the German door mud radioactive

578
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: toothpaste that was made using thorium. This was an actual

579
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: product and you can see some alarming looking like you know,

580
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: poster promotional art for this product as well. Now, all

581
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: of these quackery uses of radium are bad ideas because

582
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: it has no beneficial role in the human body. It's radioactive,

583
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: it's toxic. You don't need to be consuming radium.

584
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: Salts, right, There's not like a hidden upside.

585
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: Right. But again, given the enthusiasm for radium during the

586
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: first half of the twentieth century, it should also come

587
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: as no surprise that people were also game to bathe

588
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: in the stuff. So the big one here is not

589
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 1: in Georgia. It is in what is now the Czech

590
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: Republic Radium Palace, which opened in nineteen twelve. It replaced

591
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: a smaller spa on the property and cashed in hard

592
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: on radium enthusiasm. Alice Obscure refers to the palace as

593
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: the birthplace of radio balneology. It ignited a fad in

594
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: spas around the world, anywhere where they were already naturally

595
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: occurring springs. If you found that there was any kind

596
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: of radium content to the waters, well, lo and behold,

597
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: you have a new way to market your spa new

598
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: way to market your spring water. Radium Palace and its

599
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: waters fell out of fashion after the Second World War,

600
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: but the hotel was apparently refurbished in the nineteen nineties

601
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: and it's rather stunning looking building, and it still offers

602
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: radium based treatments, though they're apparently limited by a contemporary

603
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: maximum permitted levels of radiation doses. But on the same level,

604
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: this looks like a very attractive resort, so we kind

605
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: of have to take It's kind of like going back

606
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: to their discussion of bath, like, is it you know,

607
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: the communal factors, the placebo factors of everything, the full scenario,

608
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: So I don't know, But coming back to our home

609
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 1: State of Georgia. Georgia also got in on the action

610
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: with radium springs radium. This is still called Radium Springs Georgia.

611
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: The spa here was already a retreat destination in the

612
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 1: early twentieth century, offering gambling and naturally occurring hot spring waters.

613
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: So you had a lot of folks who had come

614
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: down from the colder northern states during the winter and

615
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: they'd enjoy like the pleasant temperatures of just southern Georgia

616
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: during the winter, but also these hot springs. It was

617
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: known as Blue Springs at the time, but then in

618
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five they discovered radium in the water and

619
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: they rebranded thus radium Springs. And you can still visit it.

620
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: I actually looked it up and I was thinking, well,

621
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: maybe I could go down there, but then a rows

622
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: it was like a four hour drive one way, and

623
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: so maybe maybe it wouldn't fit into the work week

624
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: all that well, But you can still visit the grounds

625
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: here and it looks looks rather beautiful. So the supposed

626
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 1: health benefits of radium spring soaking of radium spring spa water,

627
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: I think in general is pretty dubious, though I suppose

628
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: it's conceivably safe if one is still below the maximal

629
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: permissible level of exposure. But yeah, otherwise I don't suppose

630
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: you'd really get much out of the experience, again, other

631
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: than just the set and setting of the whole thing.

632
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that, of course, there are multiple springs

633
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: at Ramsar in Iran containing radium and thorium, and this

634
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: area is known as the most naturally radioactive place on Earth.

635
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: The springs here are also used as spas, and I

636
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: think we again have to put them in a larger

637
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: historic context. People have been coming here for a very

638
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: long time and continue to come to to Remsar in

639
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: order to enjoy these spring waters. So yeah, they're these

640
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: are these are places that were special and important again

641
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: before modern science came along to determine exactly what was

642
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: going on in the contents of the water. I'd be

643
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: very interested to hear from anyone out there who's had

644
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: experiences in a in a radium spring what you thought

645
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: of it, what what the sort of sell on it was,

646
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: what the grounds were like. I think it's it's fascinating.

647
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: I've not had the experience myself.

648
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 2: Yes, same here, but it's interesting how this has just

649
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: kind of like opened up a door into this world

650
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: of all the strange, little quirky local thermal springs all

651
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: all over the world. So it makes me think we're

652
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: maybe going to get some really good listener mail about

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Speaker 2: this series.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I want to.

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Speaker 2: Hear about your your strange local thermal springs and spas

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Speaker 2: and what what's the backstory? What goes on there?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, because a lot of them have some

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Speaker 1: very rich traditions behind them, perhaps some quirky history and places,

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Speaker 1: and some alleged healing properties. So yeah, we've already heard

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Speaker 1: from at least a few listeners, so certainly keep it coming.

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Speaker 1: We'd love to dive into these over the next several

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Speaker 1: listener mail episodes. All right, Well, on that note, we're

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Speaker 1: going to go and close it out for today, but

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Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from everyone out there, so you know,

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Speaker 1: definitely write in just a reminder that Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: Your Mind publishes its core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays

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00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: we have a short form artifactor Monster Fact episode and

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00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: Wednesdays on Mondays we do the listener mail, and on

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Speaker 1: Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to just talk

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Speaker 1: about a weird film on Weird House Cinema.

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Speaker 2: Huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Posway. If you

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Speaker 2: would like to get in touch with us with feedback

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Speaker 2: on this episode or any other, to suggest topic for

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Speaker 2: the future, or just to say hello, you can email

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Speaker 2: us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

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Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 3: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 3: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.