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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in

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Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working

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Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.

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Speaker 1: The critically acclaimed drama series Pachinko wraps up its first

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Speaker 1: season on Apple TV this week. It's just the latest

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Speaker 1: buzzworthy show to come out of a media res an

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Speaker 1: independent studio led by my next guest, Michael Ellenberg, is

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Speaker 1: also producer of The Morning Show and Scenes from a Marriage,

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Speaker 1: among others, and he's here to talk about what it's

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Speaker 1: been like to sell series in this streaming heavy world.

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Speaker 1: In just a moment, we're back with Michael Ellenberg of

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Speaker 1: Media Rez, the company behind Pachinko, The Morning Show, and

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Speaker 1: a lot more. Thanks for being with us, Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me. Andrew excited to be here. Eight. So

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Speaker 1: you launched back in Seen with backing from Bronze Studios.

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Speaker 1: So your company's coming up on its fifth anniversary, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know how your expectations of how this

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Speaker 1: was going to go squared with your actual experience. Was

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Speaker 1: a tougher, crazier look back for me. Um, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a good question. Yeah, it's like, uh, it's like a

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Speaker 1: first uh kind of first period closing, um, I would say,

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Speaker 1: and when you started business, almost everything is surprising. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's uh what was accurate in terms of the business lands,

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Speaker 1: the things that there were, things were super right about

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Speaker 1: and then all the executions much trickier. The thing the

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Speaker 1: basic premise was, you know, I've been when my tenure HBO,

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Speaker 1: I've been there for five years. And when I started there,

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Speaker 1: Netflix had bought House of Cards, but wasn't that It

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Speaker 1: wasn't like an important player yet in in series Who

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Speaker 1: lou Do What? Like none of these players, all the

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Speaker 1: players that we are so define us didn't matter. By

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Speaker 1: the time I left, you know, Netflix was you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe the lead buyer at the time. Amazon had emerged, Hulu, Excera,

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Speaker 1: and I had one simple business idea, which is that

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Speaker 1: will there will be more of that than less in

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Speaker 1: the future. And Apple would come on and this the

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Speaker 1: landscape of this would explode and was and that you

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Speaker 1: didn't you wait, only glimpsed how big it was going

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Speaker 1: to become. And I think that's you know, even now

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Speaker 1: five years later, it's still not clear what the end is, right,

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Speaker 1: meaning there's still further growth further appetite, further demand, the

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Speaker 1: shifting emphasis for all these players. So so the basic

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Speaker 1: premise of there's gonna be a lot of series ordered

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Speaker 1: and if you can be a supplier in that environment, great,

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Speaker 1: and also that there would be a need for a

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Speaker 1: company like mine, which was the simple idea of media

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Speaker 1: has a few things. One a few simple ideas. One,

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Speaker 1: it would be great for creators to have a home

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Speaker 1: to do their best work, to you, really innovative work

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Speaker 1: and really distinct work, um, and kind of incubate the

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Speaker 1: project fully before going to market. And that um, you

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Speaker 1: need sophisticated suppliers for these streamers because they can only

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Speaker 1: do so much themselves. And if you could both manage

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Speaker 1: these projects well, um, manage the process well for both

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Speaker 1: the creators and the network people will be glad about

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Speaker 1: glad to have you. I was always looking at when

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Speaker 1: I was HBO. It was always been nice to have

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Speaker 1: a company on the other end of the phone, who

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Speaker 1: could you know, who got what we wanted and could

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Speaker 1: do it right and so and you know, you have

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Speaker 1: enough fires going every day when you're a network exec,

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Speaker 1: and even more so now every network exec it's like

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Speaker 1: when you talk to them they have twenty shows going, um,

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Speaker 1: so you'd like a couple where you don't have to

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Speaker 1: put the fires out right. So those are sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, those sort of simple premises UM and UM

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Speaker 1: and Crave really unique into Crave Home. And so that's

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Speaker 1: been so the market, you know, the market has been

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Speaker 1: fertile and big and um and then everything else has

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Speaker 1: been much more complicated and trickier to pull off. But

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Speaker 1: we'll continue from there. And as you mentioned, you've worked

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the fence at HBO. You

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Speaker 1: developed some pretty big shows there, West World, True Detective.

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Speaker 1: So now that you're on the other side of the fence,

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Speaker 1: how is it different? How is the market different? Are

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Speaker 1: you are you operating in more of a seller's market

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Speaker 1: than when you were at HBO off, Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's it's way more so you know, uh, the way

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Speaker 1: it's you know, the there used to be as you know,

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Speaker 1: really one buyer for these kinds of shows. Now there's

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Speaker 1: now you know, we're entering you know, we're in the

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Speaker 1: consolidate here or so we're down to five or six buyers.

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Speaker 1: But for the really big stuff, there were never that

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Speaker 1: many networks, right, like, so there's way more than there

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Speaker 1: used to be. And so if you get you have

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Speaker 1: the right elements involved, you're either the right I P,

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Speaker 1: the right star, the right element whatever it is, or

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Speaker 1: the right just concept. Um. Yeah, you can still create

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Speaker 1: a big market frenzy um um as a seller um.

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Speaker 1: You know, but these buyers are also quite quite powerful,

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Speaker 1: so I doubt they would refer to as a seller's market.

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Speaker 1: I think I think they feel like they've they've they've

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Speaker 1: played control over over the outcome right now, and I

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Speaker 1: would imagine that control is only going to grow in

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Speaker 1: as you refer to this consolidated marketplace HBO, now of

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Speaker 1: course part of a whole new conglomerate setup at Warner

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Speaker 1: Brothers Discovery. So how does your company hold its own

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Speaker 1: get the best terms for itself in a world where

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Speaker 1: they're getting bigger and more powerful on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the negotiation table? You know, I think that by

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Speaker 1: um sticking to basics is the truth Andrew, which is

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Speaker 1: um um. There's only whether there's ten thousand shows fifty shows,

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Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't really matter. There's always only so

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Speaker 1: many that are really good, right, There's always and um,

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Speaker 1: And I don't know that the volume of things ordered

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Speaker 1: actually changes things that much in that regard. So, um,

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Speaker 1: so if you stick to basics, you know, which is

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Speaker 1: for us, it's it's you know, uh, what's we look

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Speaker 1: at white spaces, what's not on the air? What's interesting

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Speaker 1: to us? The basic question the company asked from myself,

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Speaker 1: to my assistant, to the interns, to Lindsay Springer are

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Speaker 1: great head creative? Is um first and foremost? If it

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Speaker 1: was on the Netflix screen, the Apple screen, whatever screen,

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Speaker 1: would we click on that tile first? Right? And if

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Speaker 1: the answer is yes, we're all hard to please cusse

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Speaker 1: consumers with widely varied backgrounds. If the answer for us

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Speaker 1: as yes, the odds are a lot, it will be

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Speaker 1: yes for a lot of other people. So so so

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Speaker 1: we were trying to do is find both unique voices

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Speaker 1: with something to say, um and saying in a new way.

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Speaker 1: And if you bring that to market, UM, fires get excited,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean they want to be stimulated to

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Speaker 1: they are pitched this they you know, this is an

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Speaker 1: era where being really different is better than being slightly similar,

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Speaker 1: you know, and um that's not always the case in Hollywood. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so as long as long as you're bringing something

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Speaker 1: that's special, unique, um, and they feel we try to

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Speaker 1: put a lot of loving care into what we do.

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Speaker 1: We don't go to market very often, so I think

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Speaker 1: when we come to market, people take it seriously. Whether

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Speaker 1: you know, whether they buy or not, this different question,

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Speaker 1: but I think they always they can always tell we've

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Speaker 1: given a lot of thought and character it. So being different,

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Speaker 1: I would imagine gets harder in a marketplace that is

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Speaker 1: as cluttered as it is. And yet, you know, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Pachinko, which there's there's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: projects like this, this multi generational trilingual epic. I mean

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Speaker 1: to me that sort of errors on the other side

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Speaker 1: of could something be too different? What what gave you

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Speaker 1: the confidence to take a risk on something like this? This? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So difference is sometimes in the eye of the behold, right,

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Speaker 1: So obviously Pachinko is quite different than anything market um

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Speaker 1: in in a kind of broad sense trick in American sense. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if you're paying attention to k drama

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Speaker 1: and Korean content in general, K dramas are been huge,

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Speaker 1: not just in Korea but globally for quite a long time,

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Speaker 1: well past five years ago, but not in the US market,

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Speaker 1: at least for a time for a time, right, and

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Speaker 1: then the burgeoning, but you could see that happening. But

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Speaker 1: they were big in many other territories. And I will

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Speaker 1: say a small focus group my mother so so non

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Speaker 1: Korean speakers have been watching them and and so what

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Speaker 1: was exciting. So the book was beautiful and great and

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Speaker 1: it seemed also like a unique opportunity could you which

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Speaker 1: to build a premium audience where if you could draw

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Speaker 1: from a Korean audience, the American audience, maybe Japanese audience,

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Speaker 1: Asian American um uh and other emigrations around the world,

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Speaker 1: you could build a meaningful hit across multiple territories, right.

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Speaker 1: So it didn't have to be ginormous in any one space.

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Speaker 1: If it did well in all these very spaces, and

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Speaker 1: then the rest of the world is graving potentially, right um.

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Speaker 1: And so that was there was a business logic to it, UM.

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Speaker 1: And then was a more simple thing, which is a

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Speaker 1: story like this has never been told, and yet it's

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Speaker 1: quite universal. You know, you don't have to look far

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Speaker 1: around the world right now to see stories of war displacement, refugees,

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Speaker 1: family separation, UM and unique explorations of identity and uh

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Speaker 1: family UM. And so even though this was an incredibly

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Speaker 1: specific story. I guess I felt a strong conviction and

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Speaker 1: we felt in the company that you could in both

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Speaker 1: honoring this Korean story as I need you story that

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Speaker 1: if you if you got that actually truthfully, if you

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Speaker 1: execute that in a truthful, authentic manner, would only speak

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Speaker 1: directly to the people it's about, but everyone else would

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Speaker 1: see themselves in it too. And in a way, the

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Speaker 1: book was the was the test, which is the book

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Speaker 1: was the best seller well beyond those markets, right, so

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Speaker 1: if people were willing to read the book who weren't

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Speaker 1: from that background, our belief was people would be able

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Speaker 1: to we would want to watch the show as well. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly resonating with audience, is it. It's certainly resonating

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Speaker 1: with critics. I've never seen it goes back years that

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Speaker 1: kind of critic response that this show has gotten. So

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Speaker 1: I got to imagine Apple TV may want more of

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Speaker 1: something like Pachenko. Is that even possible given that you

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Speaker 1: sort of drew this from the book, or are you

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Speaker 1: able to go forward with the story the book the

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Speaker 1: series only covers kind of first, Sushu had this brilliant approach,

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Speaker 1: which was to intercut kind of pass some president the

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Speaker 1: novel together, and we should explain Sue is the one

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Speaker 1: who adapted the book. Sorry, Sus, Hugh is our show

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Speaker 1: runner adapter and really essential to us believing we could

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Speaker 1: pull this thing off. Um. So we actually only finished

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Speaker 1: a portion of the events of the book from in

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Speaker 1: season one. So um, we thinkget there's plenty more story

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Speaker 1: to tell going forward. Um. Before and Sus expanded on

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Speaker 1: events in the novel already and she'll continue to do so.

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Speaker 1: But we have plenty in the novel to still still cover.

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Speaker 1: Got it? Um. Of course, Pachinko is not the only

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Speaker 1: show you've got on Apple TV. There's The Morning Show,

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Speaker 1: which is currently working on a third season h that

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Speaker 1: I guess will come out at some point, perhaps next year.

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Speaker 1: The Morning Show, I think. Whereas Pachinko, you know, universal

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Speaker 1: critical praise, the Morning Show I think has had a

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Speaker 1: more polarizing response. I'm curious if that's how you see it,

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Speaker 1: and is that a problem as you go into a

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Speaker 1: third season that you intend to fix. I know there's

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Speaker 1: a new show runner. I just want to get a

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Speaker 1: sense of how you look at where that show is

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Speaker 1: going in its third season. Yeah, I mean, I take um,

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Speaker 1: I think everyone you know who does well as you.

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Speaker 1: She said that I take critical response pretty seriously, and you, um,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to over index to it, right because

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Speaker 1: um you want to learn from it and and get

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Speaker 1: a field for At the same time, um, the show

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Speaker 1: as a huge audience, it's hugely loved and you feel

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Speaker 1: that love. So you try to listen to a lot

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Speaker 1: of sources, both critics, audiences, friends, industry and kind of

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Speaker 1: get it's a gestalt feel is it working. And then

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Speaker 1: I've had all to my work over the years and

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Speaker 1: stuff I've worked on all range of critical response, and

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Speaker 1: you always take it seriously. At the same time, you

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Speaker 1: can't take it too seriously because you got to move

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Speaker 1: forward and do what you do. Um So, UM what

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Speaker 1: you do want Chase for the Morning Show? Certainly we're

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Speaker 1: gonna chase in season three, which is you know, they

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Speaker 1: keep it relevant, provocative, entertaining, but but also you know

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Speaker 1: it's it's a loved show, you know, and so um

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Speaker 1: and has a de and the audience is a deep

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Speaker 1: connection to these characters and to this world. We've done

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Speaker 1: very well. Any words, uh nominations this year, um SO

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Speaker 1: guilds and our peers really love the show and so

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Speaker 1: that matters a lot too. And and um yeah, and

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Speaker 1: well you know, don't I don't know that critics uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're not inclined to also revisit these things

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Speaker 1: over time. So so it's so, uh, you can chase

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Speaker 1: your tail a little bit, uh if you over do it.

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Speaker 1: I also wanted to get a sense of what it's

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Speaker 1: like working with Apple TV, which you know, I think has,

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Speaker 1: contrary to the rest of Apple, a reputation that's sort

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Speaker 1: of more like up and coming as opposed to the big, giant,

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Speaker 1: dominant player in this space. But they've got some real

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Speaker 1: heat heat now thanks to some of your shows, thanks

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Speaker 1: to an oscar Win. Um, what is it like. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen an evolution in working with Apple TV over

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Speaker 1: this time? Yeah? Apple has been an amazing partner for

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Speaker 1: this company. And it's it's well said like they're this,

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Speaker 1: you know for you know, for this established company's Apple

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Speaker 1: is the TV plus uh is the scrappy up start,

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Speaker 1: and so for media res which is scrappy up start.

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Speaker 1: I think we've had a certain synergistic, uh, like minded approach. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're you know, they're maturing, you know, like hopefully we

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Speaker 1: all all as you as you build on on your work,

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Speaker 1: and they've been staffing up so rapidly. Um, they get

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Speaker 1: more and more sophisticated and more and more capable, and

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Speaker 1: their ambitions are only growing and that's exciting and they're

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Speaker 1: what's really cool about them. And I feel very fortunate

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Speaker 1: for I Media res in this regard, which is when

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Speaker 1: you're part of a company like that that's that's exploding

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Speaker 1: and growing. Um Uh, they're ambitious and they're not tied

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Speaker 1: to what they've done. You know, you're not. They're you're

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Speaker 1: not tied to a lot of rules about what has

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Speaker 1: to have been. We've always had success this way. Um,

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Speaker 1: you're making they're making the rules up as they go along,

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Speaker 1: and if you're working with them, you get to be

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Speaker 1: a part of that of of designing the system and

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Speaker 1: that's just a rare and need opportunity and um and

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Speaker 1: you know they're obviously they're global ambitions just like every

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Speaker 1: streamer are large and they're moving more and more in

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Speaker 1: that direction. So UM, yeah, I mean it's they've been

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Speaker 1: amazing partners. They're cool and of course it's not your

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Speaker 1: only partner. You're working with their networks and streaming services.

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Speaker 1: What I'm wondering though, is you know, my guess is

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Speaker 1: back in your days at HBO, there was something different

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Speaker 1: about selling to HBO and what HBO's creative needs are,

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Speaker 1: what showtimes needs are f X is. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that I'm necessarily seeing much differentiation in the current landscape.

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Speaker 1: It just seems like because of the volume of all

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Speaker 1: the content out there, everybody's buying everything. Am I reading

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Speaker 1: it wrong? Do you get a clear sense of like, note,

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Speaker 1: this company is looking for X, this company is looking

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Speaker 1: for why. I think Andrew super well stayed your question.

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Speaker 1: I think what's most what's probably more relevant now about

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Speaker 1: the streamers is what they share in common, right in

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Speaker 1: that regard um, which is um. You know, they're all

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Speaker 1: doing sufficient volume that it's hard to say there's a

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Speaker 1: you know, with with some exceptions at each place. You

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Speaker 1: know that, but that there's really a show that would

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Speaker 1: only land somewhere that said. UM. These companies we believe

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Speaker 1: in the human factor, like human beings matter. The human

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Speaker 1: beings who do these job is matter, and UM when

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Speaker 1: you're working with them, they're not um, Netflix, the Giant

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Speaker 1: Corporation or Apple Giant Corporation. There are a few human

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Speaker 1: beings on the other end of the zoom or hopefully

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Speaker 1: at the other end of the meeting in person at

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Speaker 1: some point again and Mac, there's of course, there's variation.

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Speaker 1: And so when you're bringing when you're putting shows together,

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Speaker 1: you are looking for the right champion for your creator,

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Speaker 1: for the show, for the project, and those different You know,

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Speaker 1: they're human beings in each place, and they have their

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Speaker 1: quirks and there and their specific sensibilities and they're all

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Speaker 1: pretty bright, um. But they have things they fall in

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Speaker 1: love with. And so if you're in your reside shoes,

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Speaker 1: we're looking for the champion for each thing, who's gonna

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Speaker 1: love enough and care about to nurture you through these

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Speaker 1: giant machines, right um um, because that's what creators need. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In those buildings. We're gonna learn more about media Res

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Speaker 1: in just a moment, will be back with Michael L. Burke,

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Speaker 1: and we are back with Michael Ellenberg of the production

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Speaker 1: studio media Res, maker of shows like Pachinko and The

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Speaker 1: Morning Show. Michael Media has recently announced an expansion into

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Speaker 1: the non fiction space. Uh what just what what drove

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Speaker 1: your decision to expand into this? Um? You know the

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Speaker 1: uh first and foremost, we simply like these shows, right

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Speaker 1: and um and so um, A lot of our scripted

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Speaker 1: work has actually been based on uh nonfiction stories. Morning

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Speaker 1: Show most famously, you know, I had a concept for

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Speaker 1: this show, but then optioned Bryan Stelger's book Top of

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Speaker 1: the Morning. So so we used the real world to

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Speaker 1: inspire a lot of our material. And it just seem

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Speaker 1: like a logical evolution to say, Okay, well, we're building

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Speaker 1: a lot of fiction out of this work, maybe we

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Speaker 1: should just tell the truth of it. Um. And then similarly, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, these shows, both docs series and doc films

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Speaker 1: are more and more viol to the networks. Um, and

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Speaker 1: there's a consumer I'm I wish there was more premium

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Speaker 1: docs series um. And so I thought, well, rather than

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Speaker 1: what we thought, rather than wait for for more of

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Speaker 1: them to be made, we should we should help make

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Speaker 1: some of those. So uh, that was that That's the US.

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Speaker 1: But is there a difference in terms of selling scripted

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Speaker 1: and selling docues? Uh? Are there sort of? Uh? Is

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Speaker 1: there a bigger appetite? It certainly seems more of this

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Speaker 1: content is, particularly on the streaming services than ever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think what what would be you know what was

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Speaker 1: a when HBO really innovated in the space twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: Now um, uh, they believe in the space artistically, but

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Speaker 1: it was it was a brand halo. I think they've

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Speaker 1: been pretty open about that. Was it was a means

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Speaker 1: of building kind of brand identity more than uh an

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Speaker 1: audience play UM. And I think what's again. One of

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Speaker 1: the amazing things about this ra is UM these these

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Speaker 1: these films are accessible, The series are accessible, and they're huge.

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Speaker 1: People watch them. They drive viewership, you feel in your

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Speaker 1: own lives and your own conversations you're having. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so how their package, how they're sold. You know, if

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Speaker 1: it be good to have a music label right now,

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Speaker 1: it seems that there is no end to the music

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Speaker 1: doc appetite UM. But it's also I I view it

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Speaker 1: from a creative perspective pretty similarly to to two when

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Speaker 1: premium series explode, which is kind of what genres haven't

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Speaker 1: been done yet. And there's plenty in Duck in DC

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Speaker 1: series in particular, things that haven't been explored yet, and

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Speaker 1: Arenas is still UH to innovate in and and so

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's similar and that you want to be

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Speaker 1: in in UM if you've got the new thing that

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Speaker 1: really stands out the market moves um um, and and

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Speaker 1: they need for us at least, you know, we really

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Speaker 1: want everything to have a cinematic value, cinematic television and

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Speaker 1: a kind of cinematic sheen to it. So we're always

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Speaker 1: looking for exceptional filmmakers as well as partner in the space. UM,

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Speaker 1: because you're also competing with the great production value of

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Speaker 1: modern scripted series, and so you don't want to kind

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Speaker 1: of collapse when you watch a doc series anymore. I

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Speaker 1: think do you have any concerns, though, whether we're talking

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Speaker 1: about scripted or unscripted, about maybe an end to this boom?

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Speaker 1: You saw, for instance last quarter uh zaslav over at

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers Discovery saying, hey, we're gonna we're gonna increase spending,

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Speaker 1: but not necessarily all that much. You know, do you

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Speaker 1: feel there's a point where finally the number starts to

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Speaker 1: hit a ceiling. I think you're seeing something for each

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Speaker 1: individual company, and certainly what you're reading about with UM

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Speaker 1: uh uh, Well, with each individual company, they'll hit some plateau,

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Speaker 1: probably the United States, UM. And then what's clear is

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world is wide open, right, So UM,

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Speaker 1: I think as we look forward. UM, I don't know

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Speaker 1: that for the kinds of shows we focus on, I

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Speaker 1: don't feel much of a limit hitting UM because if

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Speaker 1: you're at the high end of the market that I

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Speaker 1: think it's gonna be playing to man going forward, it's

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Speaker 1: just a maturing market. But outside of the US, UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's clear at all with the end

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Speaker 1: of that will look like. UM. I think we're just

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Speaker 1: at the early stages of what international expansion looks like.

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Speaker 1: And does an English language producing content player like yourself, UM,

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Speaker 1: look out at this broader global marketplace and could you

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Speaker 1: get into things like local programming, understanding that there's no

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Speaker 1: such thing really as local anymore? Everything travels. But are

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Speaker 1: you that far into this where you're saying, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I can make this work in the UK, I can

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Speaker 1: make this work in Asia. Yes, the accent it's not

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Speaker 1: it's UM, you wanna you know, we have a sensibility

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Speaker 1: here that we we think matters abroad, and pachink goes

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Speaker 1: a piece of that. UM, And so at least for now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we think we could do more abroad. You want to

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Speaker 1: be looking. I think there's local language which no longer

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Speaker 1: matters I think there's a difference between whether you're building

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Speaker 1: a show that you really, you know, are only looking

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Speaker 1: to succeed in the local territory versus a show that

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Speaker 1: you think can succeed globally and that and so for us,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be looking for shows that we think can

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Speaker 1: work all around the world, whether they're an English language

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Speaker 1: or other languages. Um and Um, But yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: there's a I think what Pachinko represents is a kind

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Speaker 1: of merger of approaches for kind of American style production

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Speaker 1: and show runner model with an international corporate international production

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Speaker 1: in a foreign language series. And and I think it

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Speaker 1: speaks that's white connecting so much globe. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: seeing companies like your own in the independent production space,

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Speaker 1: like Hello Sunshine or Westbrook selling all or parts of

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Speaker 1: themselves for Big Bucks. Is that where media res is headed. Um,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be open to growth opportunities if it allows

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Speaker 1: us to do not just more, but do better. Um,

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Speaker 1: then for sure, you know, I mean we wanna, we wanna.

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Speaker 1: We like what we do. We like making things, and

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Speaker 1: we like making good things. Um. And so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be open to opportunities where we can uh, expand our

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Speaker 1: reach in ways that we think can still maintain the

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Speaker 1: quality we've we've been striving for, and is scaling with

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Speaker 1: the ability to to meet the demand in the marketplace.

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Speaker 1: I can imagine media res probably as a company has

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Speaker 1: grown from well, you tell me, you know, a few,

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Speaker 1: a handful of people to a hundred, Like, give me

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Speaker 1: a sense of how you've been able to grow this

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Speaker 1: thing quickly. Yeah, we're not we're not that big yet,

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Speaker 1: but we're we've grown a lot that's correct and um.

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00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: And there's and there's always a tension between uh call

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00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, sort of volume and quality. Um. But we

429
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: we think we can do quite a bit more volume

430
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: before we've hit that wall and you know, you go

431
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: show by, you know, like we've built as neat as

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00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: uh we've necessarily recommended, but I don't know there's another

433
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: way to do it. Some of it's yes, you're building

434
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: the plane as you're flying it, or the cars you're

435
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: driving it, pick your pick your tortured transportation metaphor um,

436
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: um and um. But we're also we're in a growth

437
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: era and so I don't know, I don't think whether

438
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: your company of media reserside Apple TV plus or Netflix

439
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: for that matter. I think everyone's in a similar boat,

440
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: which is you're trying to meet demand. You're trying to

441
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: to as you as you as you make new shows

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00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: or new films, you know, build the staff as you're

443
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: doing it. And there's labor shortages everywhere in the economy

444
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: right now. Um. And so it's it's a pain in

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00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: the dairy air. Uh. And try what else is coming

446
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: up for you. I know, for instance, you've got a

447
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: deal with Boots Riley for a project, and I would

448
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: imagine just the sure volume of what you're working on

449
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: is increasing. Yeah, So we're I'm actually in New Orleans

450
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: right now. We're filming Boots Riley's show here um and

451
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: in Oakland, um, which is great. And then we're doing

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00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: that for Amazon Prime um uh. And we don't have

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00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: released yet, we have a wrap yet um. And then

454
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: we're also imposed on our series for Apples that Scott

455
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: Burns uh created called Extrapolations, which is I think one

456
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: of the first huge scale series that looks at human changes,

457
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: the climate changes, and really Sky's put together an unbelievable

458
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: casts on that show. I think it's a pretty visionary

459
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: series that we're we're quite excited as well. How does

460
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: a show about climate change work? Because on the one hand,

461
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: obviously it's one of the biggest subjects out there, it's

462
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: also sort of a very tough subject something that I wonder,

463
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: you know, can it really translate to entertain in Is

464
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: there a way you're sort of navigating that balance. It's

465
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: very early, so we haven't spoke. I mean, we've announced

466
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: the show and obviously, but we haven't done any um press.

467
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: So I want I want to let Scott speak for

468
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: his show first. Um. But yeah, I think that's why

469
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: we took it on. I think, um, look, the company believe,

470
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: I believe everyone the company believes that the public is

471
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: engaged by the events and reality of the day, you know,

472
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: and so um, you have to find intelligent, unique stories

473
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: that tell you something you don't know. Um. If you're

474
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 1: simply telling whether it's wherever wherever, um, Uh, it's like

475
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: if you're being topical, if you're simply letting people know

476
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: about the event, um, then there's no reason to watch.

477
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: But I think Scotts found a pretty unique way in

478
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: to look at um, human responses to these events. So

479
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: it's less about how the climate change is more about

480
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: how we change who we are. Um and um, you know,

481
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: I think people would be pret moved by it. And uh,

482
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: you'll be on a ride with some pretty amazing actors

483
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: and lots of bell Yeah. We we give lots and

484
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: bells and whistles along along with the answers. So yeah,

485
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: I think so, um, I don't. I think, uh, don't

486
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: look Up as a good example. By the way, Um,

487
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: that was a humongous movie for Netflix and a ton

488
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: of people watched it. Um, and that film literally ends

489
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: with the end of the world. So I feel like

490
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: we're way more optimistic than that already. So so so

491
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I think I think the public is I

492
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: think we believe you should assume the audience is smart,

493
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: assume they're smarter than you, and um, you'll be a

494
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: reward for that. I think if um, and so we're not.

495
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: I think aciences like to be challenged. I don't like

496
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: to assume the audience is ain't different than you were me,

497
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: meaning like we like to be challenged, We like to

498
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: be inspired, and we let you know. And depends on

499
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: your mood. Sometimes you want to lean back and zone out,

500
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: but you know, playing the time, you want to lean

501
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: in and um, and if and I think the I

502
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: think much more. The alliance is that way then, and

503
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: we sometimes give them credit for well. Looking forward to

504
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: seeing extrapolations and a whole lot more from Media Rez.

505
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: Thank you Michael for taking the time out to talk

506
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: to me today. Thank you Andrew so much. Was really

507
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: a pleasure. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.

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00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation

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00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you

510
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. Also, leave

511
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: a review in Apple Podcasts and let us know how

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00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: we're doing.