1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Something I've believed from the beginning that the Yasers are 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: going to decide the future of Live and nobody else, 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: and so I think they're gonna go. They're gonna all 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: systems are go for twenty twenty four. It's partly to 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: keep them in a position of strength in negotiating with 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: the tour on this framework agreement, because if they just 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: pull the plug right now on Live, they've lost all 8 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: their leverage. 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 2: I got thoughts in my head. Can't get them out, ji, 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: and not to think what I'm thinking about. I'm bouncing 11 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: my head. Can't get them out, jih, not to think 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: what I'm thinking about. 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: Hello, this is Alan Ship Knock back for another Fire 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Drill podcast. Another big day in the Gulf world, which 15 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: has crashed Capitol Hill for the Senate sub Committee hearings 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: about the front work agreement between the PGA Tour and 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: Live Golf and all the related intrigue. 18 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 3: We want to unpack this. 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: I'm delighted to be joined once again by Matt Janella. 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 3: I'm at what a day. 21 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: Let's pay a few bills first, tell the listeners who 22 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: are making this making this podcast possible. 23 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: Then we'll get into it. 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait to get your thoughts. 25 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 4: But yes, thanks to Dormy Workshop. 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They have 35 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 4: an incredible array of goods and some of the most 36 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 4: unique stuff you'll see in the world of golf headcovers 37 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 4: leather goods. You can also go to the Firepit dot 38 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 4: com Firepit Collective dot com and go to the Pit 39 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 4: shop and order one of our Dormy headcovers or stash bags. 40 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 4: All right, Alan, I mean you watched, you listened. I 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 4: would assume you learned a few things. What are your 42 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 4: biggest takeaways. 43 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack. 44 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't just the hearings which by themselves were quite interesting, 45 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: but then the related document dump a lot of interesting 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: material that you know, the when the Senate comes calling, 47 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: people will give it up. I've been asking folks for 48 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: some of these documents for a long time, and you know, 49 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: it's easy to blow off reporters, but it's different when 50 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: you've got the United States Senate in your business and 51 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice, and so it was it's been 52 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: a treasure trove. And there was this previous document dump, 53 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: you know, a week or so ago, related to Larry 54 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: Clayman's lawsuit. He's Patrick Reed's very eccentric lawyer, and so 55 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: there's I mean, it's like it's like being archaeologists sifting 56 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: through these documents. But yeah, speaking a bit more about 57 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: the hearings, it was interesting. 58 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 3: You know, Jay Monahan was missed. 59 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: It was like they sent in Jimmy Dunn and Ron Price, 60 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: and Jimmy Dunn is a legend in the golf world, 61 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: but it seemed like he was struggling a little bit 62 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: to articulate his thoughts and a couple of times he said, well, 63 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer. You know who's a lawyer is 64 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: Ed Hurley, who's a chairman of the PGA Tour Board, 65 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: who is also one of the architects of this framework agreement. 66 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm still puzzled why they didn't send Hurley. He's like 67 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: supposedly the leading lawyer in the United States. Like I 68 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: think he might have been able to address some of 69 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: these things with a little more nimbleness and. 70 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 3: Precise language. 71 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: But and you know Poort Ron Price, I mean, he's 72 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: always been this background figure. He's been in the tour forever, 73 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, with his boss on medical leave, 74 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: which conveniently ends in a. 75 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 3: Few days, they said, they said, they said, Ron up 76 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 3: there just to be fed to the lions. 77 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: And I've watched plenty of of hearings going all the 78 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: way back to Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill, and it's 79 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: always interesting to see our elected officials on display. And uh, 80 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: there was some some departures, and we wound up talking 81 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: a lot about China. You know, Josh Holly from from 82 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: Missouri was obsessing about China. They're not really part of 83 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: this deal. You didn't, Senator like. 84 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 3: It was it was random. 85 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: And then you know, uh, Senator Paul from Kentucky went 86 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: on this whole riff about name image likeness and how 87 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: it's destroying college sports, and these things are tangentially related 88 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: to the issue at hand. But there was a lot 89 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: of grand standing. There was a lot of politicking, which 90 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: is always part of these these hearings, so that was expected. 91 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: But I thought Ron Johnson, he was from Wisconsin, it 92 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: seemed like he was auditioning to become, you know, maybe 93 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: maybe to fill Randall Stevens spot on the PG Tour 94 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: policy board. You know, he was like, he was very 95 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: gentle and very supportive of the tour. Blumenthal from Connecticut 96 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: who kind of you know, he was a senator who's 97 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: been the driving force and all this. I thought his 98 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: questions were really sharp and penetrating, and he definitely had 99 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: had the tour guys on their heels. There were no 100 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: bombshells that came out of this, other than potentially the 101 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: language about Greg Norman's dismissal, which was always kind of expected. 102 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: If Jay Monahan is going to become the commissioner of this, 103 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,679 Speaker 1: of the new co, there wasn't really a role for Norman, 104 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: but that that's created a lot of headlines. I think 105 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: that was that was somewhat obvious, but it is interesting 106 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,239 Speaker 1: if liv continues to stay on this parallel path even 107 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: even as the new code framework deal gets consummated. That 108 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: if Norman has no role in that. So that was 109 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: kind of that was kind of the bombshell, if if 110 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: there was one, but I think. 111 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 5: It was a Norman. 112 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 4: It was about like, certainly the idea that Norman like, 113 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 4: I don't know, I mean, it's not only a bombshell, 114 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 4: but it's a bombs like to me, that was kind 115 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 4: of part of the layer to the Norman factor. 116 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: Is well, yeah, I mean, Norman's had to know he's 117 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: on thin ice ever since this deal became public and 118 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: the fact that he wasn't even consulted in it, he 119 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: had no role or voice in its negotiation, that was 120 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: the first clear signal he's on the outside looking in. 121 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: And given that the Norman and Monhan have been in 122 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: bitter opposition to each other and now Mona Han's been 123 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: elevated to the CEO of all of Golf, essentially if 124 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: this deal gets done, that would leave Norman on, you know, 125 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: without a role. I mean, that's been clear, but it 126 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: was interesting that it was actually put in writing and 127 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: and sort of the cold bloodedness of it. And so yeah, 128 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: my biggest takeaway, to go back to your original question, 129 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: is how tenuous this framework agreement really is. And some 130 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: of the documents as they've they've been laid out, show 131 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: how much horse trading that was going on just to 132 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: try and get to the framework agreement, which as presented 133 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: has almost no specificity, no details. And the reason is 134 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: they couldn't agree on anything. I mean, there was like 135 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: eight different drafts and all these fantastical things like you know, 136 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: the piff asking Tiger Woods to play ten live events. 137 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: I mean, Tiger's not going to play. He may not 138 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: play ten turn as the rest of his career, and 139 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: they certainly he's not going to burn any of his 140 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: precious footsteps on a live golf event, right, Like some 141 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: of it was was bizarre and wishful thinking. Maybe it's 142 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: just posturing as part of any negotiation, but so why 143 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: was the framework agreement so unsatisfying and so vague. It's 144 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: because they couldn't agree on a damn thing, and it's 145 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: just like, okay, we got to put this out. And 146 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: even even there was all this choreography about how how 147 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: we would the messaging behind it, what steps would come 148 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: before the announcement, that all got tossed aside too. I 149 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: mean in our previous podcast with Jeff Ogilvie, you know, 150 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: he speculated that it had been leaked and it was going. 151 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 3: To go public, and somebody knew or somebody was going. 152 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: To take it public, and that's why they hit fast 153 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: forward on the announcement that has more of the ring 154 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: of truth now and when you look at it didn't 155 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: play out the. 156 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: Way it was. It was scripted in all the correspondent, So. 157 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: You know, Jimmy Dunn was pretty honest about that. We 158 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: have a long way to go on this deal, and 159 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: the tour is vulnerable if if they can't consummate the deal, 160 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: because every every tour player who turned down the Saudi 161 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: money and remained loyal to the tour now to have 162 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: their bosses come in and say, listen, it's fine, it's 163 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: all good. We love the Saudis, we love the money. 164 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: We're all one big, happy family. And if this deal 165 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: blows up, there's absolutely no incentive for any of these 166 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: guys to stay loyal to the tour anymore because the 167 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: tour was not loyal to them. So the the stakes 168 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: have been raised here in negotiating this this framework deal. 169 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: In some ways the stat he's already gotten what they wanted. 170 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: They've been they've gotten the official stamp of approval from 171 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: the powers that be in golf, and so I think 172 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, if we can, if we can get 173 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: this done, great, and if not, we'll just we'll take 174 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: We'll take John Rahm, and we'll take every other player 175 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: we want, and we'll just make Live a bigger. 176 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: Thing so you can. 177 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: And there was a moment where where one of the 178 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: senators asked, Jimmy Dunn, has this whole process made it 179 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: harder to consummate the frameworkgreement? 180 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: He said, yeah, obviously it has. And so. 181 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: The next you know, five months become really fascinating as 182 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: to if they can get across the finish line and 183 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: what it's actually going to look like. 184 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 4: This is, I mean, the idea that we are having 185 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 4: this conversation and having covered the game for as long 186 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 4: as we have, whether you're just coming to the game 187 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 4: or you've been covering the game, like if you're Ben 188 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 4: Crenshaw or if you're like, you know, I don't know, 189 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 4: you know, Charlie Woods, like the the the whole thing 190 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 4: is just truly remarkable to me that this is the 191 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 4: state of professional golf and just shows you how I 192 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 4: don't know if you saw Riggs. Riggs is sort of 193 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 4: you know, social post on which he goes on and 194 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 4: sort of does his big takeaways and talks about the 195 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 4: way that the reason why we're here and why the 196 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 4: tour and how poorly they treated the players, the sponsors, 197 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 4: the ego they've had for so long, which is why 198 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 4: I've always said I'm just rooting for the disruption. I 199 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 4: just just the tour's attitude and ego, you know, sort 200 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 4: of ran a muck right, and Tim fincham Oh, by 201 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 4: the way, left this steamy pile of shit on the 202 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 4: front doorstep or the of of of the office of 203 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 4: his successor and said. 204 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 5: I rode Tiger. 205 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 4: I'm not only did I ride Tiger into sort of 206 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 4: this new world era of professional golf, I wrote it 207 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 4: right into the Hall of Fame with Tiger shoulder to shoulder, 208 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 4: which the irony of that, all of that is not 209 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 4: lost on me. And now Jay has had to deal 210 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 4: with all of this and the vulnerability of this sport 211 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 4: in which it just took a big pile of money. 212 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 4: You know, you had the Premier Golf League, Saudi stole 213 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 4: their playbook had Greg Norman as a guy who was 214 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 4: able to get enough players to make this a relevant 215 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 4: and a real thing. That that led to like more 216 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 4: money here, and then a push to the sponsors to 217 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 4: bring up the money that they're going to spend on 218 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 4: a watered down, you know, product, and the sponsors going, 219 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 4: none of this is making much sense. You're talking at us, 220 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 4: not with us. Not only are we out in twenty twelve, 221 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 4: but let's try to get out in twenty twenty three. 222 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 4: Oh my god, we're screwed. We better meet with these guys, 223 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 4: we better bring them like we got to do a 224 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 4: deal with them. Let's just at least do a deal 225 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 4: to do a deal, and let's figure this out later 226 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 4: in the middle of the season of twenty twenty three, 227 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 4: in the middle of the four Majors leading into a 228 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 4: Ryder Cup. 229 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 5: I mean, this is absolute mayhem. 230 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: It is, as I've said many times, it's just a 231 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: gift from the content gods. As I was watching this, 232 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: hearing play out was I kind of had to jog 233 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: my memory. I was googling what were the biggest golf 234 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: stories of twenty twenty one. You know, that was really 235 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: the last year before Live arrived. Number two on this 236 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: list I saw was the USGA capping driver link at 237 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: forty six inches instead of forty eight. 238 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: That was the number two story twenty twenty one. Like 239 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 3: it was a much simpler time. 240 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 4: And I'm sure when the USGA was the bad guy, yeah, 241 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 4: Jesus even. 242 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: And that's what been one of the ironies along as 243 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: you were alluding to that the monopolistic PGA tour has 244 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: been couched as the good guy underdog and all this 245 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: because we know from our own dealings that's not necessarily 246 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: the case. But so yeah, it's these are just as 247 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: as many people have said, these are unparalleled times, and 248 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: it's we're all just kind of riding these waves of 249 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: news breaks and energy around this and this again, this 250 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: isn't even over. At the end of the hearings, they 251 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, they kind of said, well, this is not 252 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 1: the end. We look forward to hearing from the people 253 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: that we have previously invited. We want to still want 254 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: to get their thoughts on this. That's Monahan, Norman and 255 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: the most important guy, Yaser al Ramayan. So you know, 256 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: mister Smith goes to Washington part too, like that these 257 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: guys are going to be testifying again and a bluemin 258 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: thought and Holly and some of the other senators were 259 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: pretty effective at boxing in uh, you know, Jimmy Dunn 260 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: and Ron Price and getting them to commit we want 261 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: they want certain things in writing. One of the interesting 262 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: bits was Price was questioned about pushback from the players 263 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: and he said, you know, he said, of course, yeah, 264 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: they're upset. We've been we've been having to you know, 265 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: kind of smooth things over, and there's been a lot 266 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: of conversation. And he said, have there been any communications 267 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: in writing and Price just him and how do you 268 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: want answer the question? And finally at the end he 269 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: extracted a promise and if there's anything in writing, we 270 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: want to see it so that that now becomes interesting, 271 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, if they can get Rory and Tiger and 272 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: those guys as text messages to Monaghan or to Jimmy Dunn, 273 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: email correspondence between the agents like So this is not 274 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: over even from from the standpoint of the federal government's involvement, 275 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: and looming in the background of all this is a 276 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: Department of Justice that that's a totally separate issue and 277 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: a different body with with with much stronger powers of investigation. 278 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: And so there there's they're still looking at anti trusts 279 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: as it goes back to the original battle between the 280 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: tour and live and now what this you know, quote 281 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: unquote merger might mean it's not really a merger, but 282 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: people using that word is interesting because it kind of 283 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: captures the feeling. And so this is this is not over, 284 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: and I'm sure there's there's plenty of golf fans who 285 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: wish it was. And then we could go back to 286 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: when the most important thing in golf was the lengthier 287 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: driver or whether you're wearing a hoodie or not. You know, 288 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: those were just much simpler times. But you know, it's 289 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: akin to I mean, the biggest scandal of the Obama 290 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: administrations was you know, him putting mustard on a hot 291 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: dog or wearing a tan suit. You know, is so 292 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: his quote, his scandals were so tame compared to Trump, 293 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: which had, you know, been so impactful and NonStop. And 294 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: that's kind of golf is following that that that traject 295 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: you know, what used to be a big deal doesn't 296 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: seem like such a big deal anymore. 297 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 5: Here's what we know. 298 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 4: There will be four majors in twenty twenty four, you 299 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like like the majors, and you know, 300 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 4: I'm just so disenchanted by all of this, just all 301 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 4: all of it as it relates to professional golf. I 302 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 4: have a hard time, you know, I have a hard 303 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 4: time firing for the week to week, you know, Thursday 304 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 4: through Sunday, stroke play, who won this week? Good shot, 305 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 4: bad shot, good score, bad score. 306 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 5: Finished strong? 307 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 4: We're choked, Like unless it's relating to a major, you know, 308 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 4: I none of this is really at all compelling to me, 309 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 4: and I feel like the only thing we know compelling 310 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 4: in a way that makes me more intrigued by sort 311 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 4: of you know, following the world of professional golff. It's like, 312 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 4: good God, there never was a really good a good 313 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 4: guy in the room. I don't think there is a 314 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 4: good guy in the room still to this day. I'm 315 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 4: just rooting for, at some point down the road that 316 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 4: they will get it all sorted and will be presented 317 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 4: with some sort of a product that actually, you know, 318 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 4: has value from a from a fans standpoint. I mean, 319 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 4: the fans are so far down on this list at 320 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 4: this point in terms of what matters. 321 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 5: It's like it's you know, it's the. 322 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 4: Top players, it's the top sponsors, and brands that are 323 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 4: related to those top players. Then it's like, you know, 324 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 4: some sort of legacy as it relates to the PGA 325 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 4: Tour and the people you know are. 326 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 5: In charge of that. 327 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 4: Then there's like the other players you know that beyond 328 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 4: the top thirty or beyond the top twenty five, and 329 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 4: then it's you know, I keep going, like the priority 330 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 4: list just keeps going. You know, God only knows where 331 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 4: a DP World Tour, corn Ferry Tour, I mean, where 332 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 4: do where does all that? And but then there's the 333 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 4: fan the way down this list is like, we'll figure 334 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 4: that out at some other point, but we got a 335 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 4: lot of shit to you know this. This individual mindset 336 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 4: that it takes to be a player is well documented. 337 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 4: It's an individualistic sport. It takes a lot of you know, 338 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 4: you know, a tunnel vision, uh, sort of narcissistic approach 339 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 4: to sort of life in general, because you're it's you 340 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 4: versus the world. And I think there's something to that 341 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 4: that has led to sort of this that has blown 342 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 4: up in sort of the world of professional golf'space, and 343 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 4: I just don't see any real clear and and uh 344 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 4: an understandable solution in any way shape or form. 345 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. Mark Brooks texted me out of the 346 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: blue yesterday. You know, for were a tour player, PGA 347 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: championship winner, all that stuff, and he was involved in 348 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: this effort to create a player union back in the nineties. 349 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: He was intimately involved, and they were basically shouted down. 350 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: No top players would support them, with the notable exception 351 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: of Greg Norman, which is interesting. Norman was on the 352 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: few guys who actually paid his thousand dollars membership fee 353 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: and was. 354 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 3: Vocal about supporting the union. 355 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: But all the other top guys that were dismissive and 356 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: they never got traction. And you know that was a 357 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: talking point in the Senate hearings is they kept coming 358 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: back to this point, why were the players not involved? 359 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: You know, the whether it was price or done. They 360 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: kept saying there were a players organization, and so the 361 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: senators kept coming back to this point, if you're a 362 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: player organization, how could the players not have a voice 363 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: in this process? And this is not a new issue, 364 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 1: I mean, this is going this is going on three 365 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: decades now where and even longer really, I mean, but 366 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: there was that strong push in the nineties to create 367 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: a real, workable union. And you see in other sports, 368 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: h how how important the union is that protecting the 369 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: player's interests. But those are team sports, and like you said, 370 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: golf is just this this game that celebrates the rugged individual. 371 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: But it's it's a problematic moment for for all these 372 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: lone wolves right now, who all of a sudden they 373 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: want the safety of the pack. But they they've always 374 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: rejected it until now. So it's there's there's the structural questions, 375 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: and neither Price nor Done came up with a satisfactory answer. 376 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 3: You know. They they made the point that uh, and 377 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 3: this this was kind of funny. 378 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: Basically, if the lawyers on neither side had heard about this, 379 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: they would have tried to killed the deal. Well yeah, 380 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: because the lawyers are making tens of millions of dollars 381 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: a month, so of course they would have tried to 382 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: kill the deal. But but they never were able to 383 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: fully explain why they couldn't have let Rory in or 384 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: Tiger or you know, even Peter mal not use on 385 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: the board of directors. 386 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: You know that they they they. 387 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: Talked around it, but they never answered the question. And 388 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: so I'm sure some any players who were paying attention 389 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 1: that that was that left him with a hollow feeling 390 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: because that that's that's been one of the primary critiques 391 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: of this entire process is that you've got uh and 392 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: and this was also interesting Jimmy Dunn, you know, they 393 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: he said something to the fact like, well, I just 394 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: came on the board, you know, end of last year, 395 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: and I don't I don't really know all the personalities. 396 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,239 Speaker 1: And you know, he kind of admitted that he was 397 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: this this this newcomer who didn't have a full understanding 398 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: of the landscape, and yet he was the guy because 399 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: of his charisma and because of his business background he 400 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: was sent out there to represent all the interests of 401 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: the tour and it just it just made for some 402 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: very awkward testimony. As you know, the senators were pretty 403 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: effective at times in in kind of laying these traps 404 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: verbally and done, and Price walked into a few of them, 405 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: and they didn't I don't think they there were no 406 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: fatal blows, but I feel like collectively, you know, taking 407 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: taking CEO the PGA tour, Ron Price, and you take 408 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: Jimmy Dunn, they didn't quite help the cause I got 409 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 1: I feel like they were evasive those times that they 410 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,239 Speaker 1: didn't they didn't have the goods, and those things they 411 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: couldn't totally explain away, and so there there were there 412 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: were no there were no like gotcha moments where you 413 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: felt like we'd really uncovered something nefarious or or or 414 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: some element of of of reckless disregard for the process. 415 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: But they just they were not that impressive between the 416 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: two of them, and they were playing defense the whole time, 417 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: and they never were really able to articulate effectively how 418 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: this deal came about, what it means for the consumers 419 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: and the players and the fans, as you say, Matt. 420 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: And strangely it was Ron Johnson, the Center from Wisconsin, 421 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: who I thought did the best job. You know, he 422 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: kind of went near the end of the of of 423 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: the hearing, he went on a couple of monologues talking 424 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: about the tour and you know, defending the tour and 425 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,239 Speaker 1: explaining their position, and he actually I thought he did 426 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: a good job of stating. 427 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 3: What could have been the tour's position all along. So 428 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 3: it was an interesting choice. 429 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: I mean, I think, of course none of these mon 430 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: Han does not want to get up there and go 431 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: through this, but after watching this performance, it might be 432 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: hope him to do so. And to try and really 433 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: sell this a little more effectively to the people who 434 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: are watching at home, who are his consumers. 435 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 4: The way you summarize the whole sort of the heat, 436 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 4: you know, the hearing, the sort of the way you 437 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 4: encapsulated the they didn't have any good answers. They didn't 438 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 4: they didn't have any good specifics. There wasn't good communication, 439 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 4: There wasn't any really like it kind of summarizes that, 440 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 4: Like if we go back and listen to that summarizes 441 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 4: the PGA tour from the very beginning of this whole process. 442 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 4: At the start, they've never had good communication, They've in 443 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 4: they feel like they look like they've just they're just 444 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 4: chasing their tail. There's you know what has what was 445 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 4: the actual vision they they they whatever they pretended to 446 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 4: stand for that caved in. You know, we're not going 447 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 4: to compete with money, but then they try to compete 448 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 4: with It's just been this ongoing contradiction, hypocritical sort of 449 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 4: confusion from the very beginning. It's just has been NonStop. 450 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 4: And so why why would today be any different? Why 451 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 4: is tomorrow going to be any different? What is Jay 452 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 4: Monaghan going to is he going to on his break 453 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 4: did he actually form some cognitive thoughts in a way 454 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 4: that we can all process and you know and and understand. 455 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 4: Is there going to ever be a solution in which, 456 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 4: you know, uh, like the idea of like telling Tiger 457 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 4: what he is and isn't going to do play or 458 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 4: not play? Play These events are not play events to 459 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 4: your point, Like the idea that he will play even 460 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 4: ten events total, let alone play ten live events live 461 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 4: events is absolutely that's hysterical. The idea that yah Seer 462 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 4: is going to actually get a membership to Augustin like, 463 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 4: you know, who doesn't like it told what to do 464 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 4: more than Tiger Woods Augusta National. You think he's going 465 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 4: to walk it like and the RNA like, oh so 466 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 4: we got we got everybody, let's welcome our new member. 467 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 5: You know, this is like. 468 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 4: This is a clown This is a clown car, and 469 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 4: every time the door opens, more clowns just keep walking 470 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 4: out of the car. 471 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 5: How many clowns are involved in this process? 472 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: That was my exact thought about yoa, Sir and Augusta 473 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: National is maybe it had he had a chance until 474 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: that went public and that no, no, the guy's. 475 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 5: Gonna be rolling around in a green jacket. 476 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's funny because this is there's I 477 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: have this whole riff in my book about this is 478 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: part of the reason I think Jimmy Dunn was sent 479 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: over to meet with the Yoscer is Jimmy Dunn represents 480 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: everything that Yoser wants in golf. I mean, Jimmy Dunn 481 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: is famously the first guy to become a member at 482 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: simultaneously at Augusta National, Cypress Point, Pine Valley in Seminole. 483 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 3: Right, those are the inner sanctums. 484 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: And oil money can buy you a jet and a yacht, 485 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: it can buy you politicians, it can even buy you golfers. 486 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: The one thing that cannot buy you directly is a 487 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: locker at Augusta National or at Cypress Point. And you know, 488 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: so Yostter's been on that, He's been desperate to get 489 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: into the golf world. 490 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 3: He's been on the outside looking in. 491 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: They said, over Jimmy, who's like the emissary of of. 492 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 3: Of the elite. 493 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: You know, he's the he's the ring master of all 494 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: these private clubs. And I think that's a tangible thing, 495 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: you know, for for Yoser, that was that's part of 496 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: this this whole thing. If he could get into one 497 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: of those places, he would have arrived in a way 498 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: that no Saudi public figure ever had. Because there's there's 499 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: things you can buy and there's things you can't buy. 500 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: And Augusta National is the ultimate symbol of your You've 501 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 1: been vetted, you know, I mean you've you've been there 502 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: Matt as a guest, and I've been lucky to play 503 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: at some of these other places, and there is this 504 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: weird sense like I don't know who you are, but 505 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: you're here in this grill room with me at the 506 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: same time, and so you're one of your You're one 507 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: of us, You're one of me, and and so that 508 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: that is like the ultimate carrot. Would would you also 509 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: spend four billion dollars of the public Investment Fund money 510 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: from Augusta National membership? 511 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 3: I think the answer is yes, gladly. 512 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: And so it was just funny to see that in 513 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: the harsh black and white of a document dump, right, 514 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: it speaks to these the motivations here and that that's 515 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: been that's been a question from the beginning, you know what, 516 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: what is Saudi Arabia. 517 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 3: Trying to accomplish here? 518 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: And some of that was was really revealed in a 519 00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: in a profound way. And you know, sports watching, you 520 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: could say, as as an exercise in sports watching, live 521 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: golf has been a colossal failure because a lot of 522 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: golf fans never really thought about Saudi Arabia's role in 523 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: world affairs or how it's treated its dissident citizens. Now 524 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: it's in aes capable topic. 525 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 3: Right. 526 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how effective it's been at at at 527 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: laundering the reputation of MBS and the regime, but as 528 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: an exercise of getting you know, the seat of the 529 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: proverbial table, about being accepted in the quarters of power, 530 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: about building relationships with powerful Western businessmen and public figures, 531 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: it's been massively effective. 532 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 3: And so you know, all these things exist. 533 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: On multiple levels, and so it's just funny that it 534 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: got someone actually typed it up and put it in 535 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: a memo about y'alls are getting augusta national membership. WICH 536 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: guarantees will never get one. But that that really tells 537 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: you what they're thinking, was. 538 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 4: What if okay, let's just say Tiger would takes a 539 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 4: step back here for a second. And you know, and 540 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 4: when I say Tiger, you know that comes with Mark Steinberg. 541 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 4: Obviously they're like they're there they've always been one and 542 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 4: the same, or at least since you know, post Hughes Norton. 543 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 4: You know, yeah, Steinberg and Tiger are you know, they 544 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 4: are that they are. 545 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 5: That business right. 546 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 4: And let's say Tiger were to say, all right, let's 547 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 4: let's start, let's start a tour, and let's let's form 548 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 4: a tour the. 549 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 5: Right way with you with a unionized approach to this. 550 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 4: Let's let's learn from the last you know, let's learn 551 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 4: from the last two years. But let's let's let's also 552 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 4: learn from the last you know, twenty years. Let's learn 553 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 4: from you know, sort of from the day that I 554 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 4: came on the scene and golf went to a whole 555 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 4: the stratosphere, just like Arnie and Jack kind of learned 556 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 4: from what they had gone through and Gary and you 557 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 4: know and McCormick and they formed, you know, the PGA Tour. 558 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 4: What if there's a revamped professional golf tour that Tiger 559 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 4: sort of embraces becomes kind of the commissioner de facto 560 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 4: commissioner of the leader of they actually create something that 561 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 4: has the framework of a greater good, in which then 562 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 4: brands now have something they are willing to you know, 563 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 4: the big money brands that could fund something like this 564 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 4: twenty tour events that you get, they're all sort of elevated, 565 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 4: so to speak from up from a money standpoint, players 566 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 4: do have a voice and a role. There is a 567 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 4: it is it is a tour. You know that that 568 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 4: the commissioner Tiger essentially works for the players. 569 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 5: Like what if. 570 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 4: There is something that like isn't the PIFF and it 571 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 4: isn't the PGA Tour, but it is something that actually 572 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 4: makes sense in addition to the four Majors and the 573 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 4: Ryder Cup and you come up with you know, is 574 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 4: that is that like so far fetched or outrageous? 575 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think that's what this this this 576 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: new code, this framework agreement could be. Yeah, but come on, 577 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: but if I've read this, I think Sally Jenkins wrote 578 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: this column in the Washington Post a few weeks ago, 579 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: like Tiger and Rory and Jordan should just start their 580 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: own tour. 581 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 3: And the the problem is how do you pay for it? 582 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: Because the Premier Golf League was trying to do that 583 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: for years and they had a lot of smart people, 584 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: and they had a lot of traction, but ultimately they 585 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: couldn't attract enough money. 586 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 5: Well, they needed the player they needed the players to 587 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 5: the players. You know, if you with Tiger then everything falls. 588 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 4: Then you get Rory, And if you got Tiger and Rory, 589 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 4: then you potentially get rom If you get to Tiger, 590 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 4: Rory and Rahm, Like, I don't know, you. 591 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: Know, but this would We're just coming. This has been 592 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: This has been basically five years to get to this moment, 593 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: from the from when the Premier Golf League first became 594 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: public in twenty eighteen. So it's five years to get 595 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: from there to hear and it's been obviously a colossal 596 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: pain in the ass for everyone, and it's still not 597 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: settled to trying to reinvent the wheel one more time. 598 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 3: I don't think anyone has the appetite for that. 599 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 4: But I mean, this is all going backwards. If you 600 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 4: ask me, I mean who who Who's Like if if 601 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 4: Y'ah Sir is actually the one in charge and if 602 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,239 Speaker 4: the Piff Fund is the answer, and if that is 603 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 4: going to be the future of professional golf. 604 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 5: Really yeah, it's I mean, he's not going to get. 605 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 4: His membership, Tiger's not going to play those ten events. 606 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 4: The you know, the other players are just going to 607 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 4: still be just as pissed. I mean, this is a 608 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 4: hornet's nest of anxiety and and and and pissed off agents, players, sponsors. 609 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 4: This is going backwards. There is no what is the 610 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 4: actual steps to something that resembles a solution. 611 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: Well, so what's interesting is Andy Gardner, who's the driving 612 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: force by the Premiere Golf League. He's been completely silent 613 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: to all of this, and there are some folks in 614 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: golf who think that he is waiting in the wings 615 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: in cases whole thing falls apart and the Premier Golf 616 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: League could be re animated and save the day because 617 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: it would not have the association with the Saudis. But 618 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: what this whole exercise has shown is the tour is 619 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: willing to change its model and it's willing to bring 620 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: an outside investment. And so you could go to all 621 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: these private equity behemoths that are love to invest in 622 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: other sports. Of course they they would be happy to 623 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: invest in golf as well, and you could essentially have 624 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: outside investment and reimagine PG Tour. You take away all 625 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: the objections to the Saudi involvement, and the Premiere Golf 626 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: League could be that vehicle. So it's an interesting Tiger Woods. 627 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 4: And Mark Steinberg need Andy Gardner, do they need that play? 628 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 4: But like, if I'm like Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods, hat 629 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 4: is in a unique position in which he is Tiger 630 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 4: fucking Woods. Like he he trumps everybody in every one 631 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 4: of these situations. And he's been you know, he's he's 632 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 4: sat back, he's distanced himself from all the you know, 633 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 4: the little shenanigans that are going on, and he's going 634 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 4: to protect his eighty two wins. And you know, certainly, 635 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 4: you know, fifteen majors is that ain't go, that's not 636 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 4: going anywhere. And he's Tiger Woods and it's his time. 637 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 4: Like if if did he do all of this and 638 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 4: commit to all of that and build up all of 639 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 4: this equity to sort of, you know, play a secondary 640 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 4: role to some guy from Saudi Arabia wants it, you know, 641 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 4: a green. 642 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 5: Jacket by his way to a green jacket. Like it's comical. 643 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 4: This is Tiger Woods is the best in the game. 644 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 4: You know, he is Michael Jordan, He's Wayne Gretzky, He's 645 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 4: he's Kelly Slater. If they go, if they go to 646 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 4: try to do something or people are going to follow. 647 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: Well, Tiger Woods is as a player moves the needle 648 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: like no other. But as a bureaucrat, I'm not not 649 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: so sure. And if you look at Michael Jordan, he 650 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: was a failure as an NBA owner, you know these, 651 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: but he. 652 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 4: Didn't But he could have, you know, you know, but 653 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 4: the NBA is a league and full of teams and 654 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 4: has a player's union, and and he couldn't have started 655 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 4: his own league. But Tiger, at this moment, professional golf 656 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 4: is as vulnerable as it's ever been ever, right, like, 657 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 4: certainly in modern in this in this modern times, if 658 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 4: he were to like actually commit to starting something that 659 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 4: makes sense to not only the players who play the game, 660 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 4: but also the brands who support the game beyond some 661 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 4: pif fund that's going out, you know, going around trying 662 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 4: to to sportswash, you know, a real you know, gnarly reputation. 663 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 4: I just if Tiger, if the PGA Tours up against 664 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 4: the pit Fund, it's losing. If Tiger Woods is up 665 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,879 Speaker 4: against the pit Fun, I think he could win. 666 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a interesting thought exercise, for sure. I mean, 667 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: of course, you're you're you're not giving proper due to 668 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: the tech infused golf league that Tiger and Rory are 669 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: going to debut, which that's. 670 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 3: What that was three years in the making. They're they're 671 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 3: super proud of it. 672 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 5: So but that's that's what professional golf is good. 673 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 3: That's the answer. 674 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: But no, I mean it's actually that is probably that 675 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: was a good, uh test balloon, right, Like they've it's 676 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: given Tiger and Rory a sense of ownership and a 677 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: taste of power, and and that's put him in the 678 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: boardroom and they're having to recruit investors and sponsors. So 679 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: to your point, I mean that that's sort of like 680 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: you know, playing on the corn ferry to get to 681 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: the to get to the PGA tour, like they've paid 682 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: some dues now in that in that managerial role, So 683 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: it's not at the realm of possibility. And it's again 684 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: as we were talking about earlier, this framework agreement expires 685 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: on December thirty first, and so it's it they're the 686 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: pressure's on to get it consummated. If not, then anything's possible. 687 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: And I do think that you know, part of the 688 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: live events over in Spain and in London the last 689 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: couple of weeks as words leaking out, and it was 690 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: a big deal that Yasser went and played in the 691 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: pro am at Valderrama because he was a ubiquitous presence 692 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: on Live Golf last year. He was at every pro am, 693 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: he was at every party, and he had stepped back 694 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: this year and he was he had not he had 695 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,760 Speaker 1: not been to a single tournament. And you know his lieutenant, 696 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: this guy Magic al Sor, he'd been he'd been moved 697 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: out of the day to day and he he was 698 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: also he was he was a big part of the 699 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: whole social fabric of Live and his first season, and 700 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: so those two guys have just been completely gone this year, 701 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: and that led to a little bit of jitters on 702 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: Live like what does it mean? Like these are our patriarchs, 703 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: these are our biggest boosters, and they're the bridge to 704 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: all the PIF money and having them step back created 705 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: some angst. 706 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 3: And so for. 707 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: Y'astro to go into Valderama, play the pro am with 708 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: Phil Press a lot of flesh, have this meeting with 709 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: the captains that Norman was part of and some of 710 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: the other top executives and express his bullishness on Live's future. 711 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 3: That meant a lot. 712 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: So I think, to me, there's no doubt that there's 713 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: going to be a Live schedule in twenty twenty four. 714 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: This has been there's been a question from the moment 715 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: the framework agreement was announced, is what's going to happen 716 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,919 Speaker 1: to Live? And you know, Jay Monahan and Jimmy Dunn 717 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: were selling hard this idea that we control the board, 718 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: therefore we control the decision on Live. But this was 719 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: another little sentence that was tucked in that into one 720 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: of these memos that got releasedast was that in fact 721 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: I don't have in front of you, but it said, 722 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: while the new coboard will will make the ultimate decision 723 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: on golf, it's likely to be handled by the Executive 724 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: Committee of the Board. That's you know, a smaller group, 725 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: and that's where and it said where the piff has 726 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: more control and more more weights, that's Yasers. So that 727 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: was an acknowledgment something I've believed from the beginning that 728 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: the Yasers are going to decide the future of Live 729 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: and nobody else. And so if I think they're going 730 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 1: to go, they're going to all systems are go for 731 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. It's partly to keep them in a 732 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: position of strength in negotiating with the tour on this 733 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: framework agreement, because if they just pull the plug right 734 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: now on Live, they've lost all their leverage. But you know, 735 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: Jimmy Dunn was very clear today in his testimony that 736 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, we're in a tough spot if this framework 737 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: agreement goes away because there will be no impediments for 738 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: Live to take more of a our players and they 739 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: have already been elevated in the. 740 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 3: Eyes of sponsors. 741 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: And you know, that was another thing that when when 742 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,439 Speaker 1: honorbon Lahiri signed with Live, he got dropped by Hero 743 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: Motor Corporation. You know, that's that's the guys who who 744 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 1: sponsored Tiger's tournament, and it's it's like basically the General 745 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: Motors of India and the guy who runs that, the founder. 746 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: He played in the pro am in London and the 747 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: Live pro am, and so that was like a very 748 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: interesting reapproachment. It's like the walls are down. Now it's 749 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: okay for the corporations to come back to Live. It's 750 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 1: it's okay to cut the deals. 751 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 3: And so. 752 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: It's this game of chicken, right and and what's they're 753 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: they're It's kind of like when you're you're playing golf 754 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: with your best friend. It's like when it's like when 755 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,720 Speaker 1: me and you go out and play a match together, Matt. 756 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,760 Speaker 1: It's like we're we're having fun and it's good natured, 757 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 1: but we're also trying to like tear each other's heart out, 758 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 1: and so there's a we're like for four hours like 759 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: frenemies where where that's kind of this situation now between 760 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: the Tour and the Piff as they try to negotiate 761 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: this framework. It's like, Okay, we're on the same team, 762 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: let's do something for the for the good of golf. 763 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: But it doesn't work out, you know, outcome, we're going 764 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: to be competing again, and there's this sort of low 765 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 1: grade threat beneath all of that, and it's it's pretty 766 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: clear now that if the framework agreement goes away, that 767 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: lives in a much stronger position than it was. And 768 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: so I think I think that they're going to they're 769 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: going to to maintain that, they're gonna announce a twenty 770 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: twenty four schedule and they're just going to kind of 771 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: keep going. Now that could very well be the last 772 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: live season at the end of twenty four if they 773 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: consummate this agreement, If if y'alls are and the Piff 774 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: want to go all in on the tour by then 775 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: Live will fulfilled most of its contracts. 776 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 3: They will have paid out all the signing bonuses. 777 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 1: It would be a lot easier for it to fold 778 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: up after twenty four than after twenty three. But that's 779 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: another foundational question that isn't really answered today in the 780 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: in the in the Senate hearings, but in the document 781 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: release there was a little more clarity and just that 782 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,760 Speaker 1: one sentence that kind of acknowledge that you know, yosers 783 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: and the executive community of the board and they're going 784 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: to have more say in this than had previously been 785 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: kind of sold to the public. 786 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 3: I thought that was really meaningful. 787 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,359 Speaker 4: It just comes back to the tour has been exposed 788 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 4: for being a tour supposedly you know, you know, a 789 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 4: player's tour run by a commissioner who's not consulting with 790 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 4: the player. I mean, this just whole that that's the vulnerability, 791 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 4: and that's why that's why this is, that's why PIFF 792 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 4: you know and. 793 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 5: Live worked because you had you had. 794 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:58,919 Speaker 4: A splintered system in which they were pretending to care 795 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 4: about the players, but they didn't really care about the players. 796 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 4: They they pretended to listen to players, but didn't actually 797 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 4: listen to players. They were they had their own agenda 798 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 4: from a business standpoint and a money standpoint. A lot 799 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 4: of the points in phil has always been been making 800 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 4: and was actually. 801 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 5: Right about uh. 802 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 4: And that's why and and that's why there and now 803 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 4: there is no there's no good leader or leadership. It's 804 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 4: a deal to make a deal, and you're dealing with 805 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 4: the devil. So you know, if you deal with the devil, 806 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,919 Speaker 4: you better. You better like the temperature of hell. 807 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean. 808 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,840 Speaker 1: The less than all of this. The bottom line to 809 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: me from this, this, this whole chapter in professional golf 810 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: is that and it's taken right out of the business world. 811 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 1: In the absence of competition, the products suffers. And we 812 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: saw the pg throw had a monopoly on big time 813 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: golf this century. You know that you could you could 814 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,759 Speaker 1: argue in the ninety the European Tour was almost the 815 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: equal of the PGA Tour. They were winning the Ryder Cup. 816 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: All their players are winning majors. They you know, especially 817 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: in the late eighties when Sevey was still in his prime, 818 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: they had all these stars, they had all this charisma. 819 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: The money still wasn't quite commensurate, but they were a 820 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,280 Speaker 1: real viable competitor. And then Tiger Woods arrived in nineteen 821 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: ninety six and changed everything and the balance of power flipped, 822 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: you know, strongly to the PGA Tour and there was 823 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: more money and there's more world ranking points. And the 824 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: last top European guy who stayed home was really called 825 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,799 Speaker 1: Montgomery in the nineties and since then all the top 826 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: Europeans have come over to the PGA Tour. And so 827 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,399 Speaker 1: the PGA Tour has had this monopoly on big time 828 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 1: golf and it led to very little innovation, right, I 829 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: mean in the telecasts, they're like the telecasts were better 830 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,760 Speaker 1: forty years ago when you watch them. The social media, 831 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: the rise of social media, like we all know the 832 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 1: PGA Tour. Social media is terrible, just all the ways 833 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,320 Speaker 1: they tried to they try to present the game. 834 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 4: Hold the game, and control the around the game. It's 835 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:09,399 Speaker 4: like without publishing, publishing you know, the penalties and why 836 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 4: people are being punted like the. 837 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 838 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 1: So in the in the absence of competition, the products 839 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: suffered and it made it was an old, tired industry 840 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: that was very ripe for disruption and pre golf Ley 841 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,320 Speaker 1: tried it, they couldn't They couldn't quite launch the Saudis 842 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: came in, took their idea, had the money and and 843 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: they created this This product now is live a perfect 844 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: product obviously not. I mean the marketplace has said that 845 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: there they're struggling still to attract the sizeable audience. But 846 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: at least it was competition that forced the PGA towards 847 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 1: to innovate and to change, and the elevated events have 848 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,760 Speaker 1: been a huge success. They were all of a sudden 849 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: finding ways to pay their top players what they're worth. 850 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,800 Speaker 3: And so if it's just it's. 851 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 1: They're going to be teaching this in business classes, you know, 852 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,240 Speaker 1: for for a long time. Like this is the classic 853 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,959 Speaker 1: case study where the PGA tour was just a little 854 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,799 Speaker 1: too content and a little too comfortable, and it made 855 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 1: them vulnerable and the you know, Hamanahan said, well, there 856 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: was an irrational threat we never could have seen coming. 857 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: But I mean this Oudis were involved in golf since 858 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: since twenty eighteen, and they had a relationship with the 859 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: European Tour, with the Ladies' European Tour, with the LPGA, 860 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 1: which allowed his top players to play in the Ramco series. 861 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 3: So you could see them coming. It wasn't that hard 862 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:29,280 Speaker 3: to see them. 863 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: Coming, and then they were they were working with the PGL. 864 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,280 Speaker 1: You know, they plaged five million dollars for the PGL. 865 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: It's not widely known, but and so like this has 866 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,240 Speaker 1: been an incremental arrival and then all of a sudden, 867 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:44,800 Speaker 1: they just they pushed their chips in the middle of 868 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: the table and the tour was completely unprepared. 869 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 3: So and as I saying, it. 870 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 4: Was because the tour refused to meet and it was like, oh, okay, 871 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 4: you don't even want to meet. 872 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 5: With us, all right, well then screw you. 873 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 4: Let's let's let's let's let's go crazy. 874 00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 875 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think that it was sort of crystallized. 876 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 1: You know, Monahan loomed very large in his absence today, 877 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: and that the two guys who sent tried their best, but. 878 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 3: They they couldn't. 879 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: Quite fend off the attacks from the centers because they 880 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 1: didn't really have the answers, like they don't know what's 881 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,520 Speaker 1: in the framework agreement. They didn't have a good reason 882 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,280 Speaker 1: why they didn't involve the players. They couldn't really explain 883 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: why the tour had been made so vulnerable to this threat, 884 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,840 Speaker 1: because that would they would have to therefore point the 885 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,400 Speaker 1: finger back at themselves and their boss j and so 886 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,400 Speaker 1: it kind of laid bare some of these things that 887 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,799 Speaker 1: we've known but and have been discussed but in a 888 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 1: very graphic public forum. And that was one of my 889 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: takeaways was that even though a lot of these senators 890 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,680 Speaker 1: are sort of like Inspector cluseau Vibes and they've got 891 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: their own agendas and they go off on these weird 892 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 1: tangents across almost three hours, they did hammer down on 893 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,839 Speaker 1: some of these points that made it very clear that 894 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: the tour just there was an element of mismanagement that 895 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: brought them to this moment and they're still trying to 896 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: fight their way out of it. 897 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 4: It's so funny what happens in golf when things are 898 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 4: laid out in a very graphic, truthful forum. No one 899 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 4: knows it better than you because you've made a living 900 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 4: doing it, not you know, not afraid to write what 901 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 4: you've written about Tiger off course, or write what you've 902 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,839 Speaker 4: written about Phil you know. 903 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,799 Speaker 5: Off course or or like. 904 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,440 Speaker 4: But every time it happens, Oh, it's you know, the whole, 905 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 4: the whole collective, you know, world of golf gasps at 906 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:43,800 Speaker 4: the idea. 907 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 5: That there's actual truth coming. 908 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,839 Speaker 4: You know that Tiger's actually not that great of a guy, 909 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,319 Speaker 4: or Phil's not that great of a guy, or you know, 910 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 4: Arnold's you know transgression like oh, don't well talk about 911 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 4: you know, scaoid or the idea that maybe there's some 912 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:06,399 Speaker 4: players who have you know, cheating, Oh got gret don't 913 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 4: talk about it well. 914 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: And it runs even deeper on social issues. I mean 915 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,440 Speaker 1: the PG of America's Caucasian only clause. I mean, fourteen 916 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 1: years after Jackie Robinson, they still had a Caucasian only clause. 917 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 5: Don't do don't, don't, don't talk about that, right. 918 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: And then then thirty years later, Shoal Creek blows up 919 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh wow, we had no idea there 920 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: was so much racism in the country clubs. Really it's 921 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: and then and then you know, Martha Burke brings to 922 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 1: the issue of of you know, all these all male. 923 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:34,920 Speaker 3: Memberships and the Old Boys. 924 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 1: Network, and and it's like it just golf is always 925 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 1: behind the times, and it's that that outdated mentality is 926 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: what made the PG Tour. 927 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 3: Vulnerable for disruption. 928 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: And you know, you if you look at what the 929 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 1: other sports leagues do on their social media compared to 930 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,399 Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, it's like it's night and day and 931 00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:05,320 Speaker 1: all all these things. It's how every Sunday golf. Twitter 932 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,160 Speaker 1: for ten years been bitching about the TV coverage and 933 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,480 Speaker 1: it's still just as bad as it was, Like like golf, 934 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,799 Speaker 1: and we just saw this this last weekend where you 935 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,319 Speaker 1: know you're watching I was watching the playoff over on 936 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: the European Tour. 937 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 3: They cut out so they can go to the pregame. 938 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,000 Speaker 3: With the US Women's Open, you. 939 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 1: Gotta scramble for different apps and different streaming services just. 940 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:25,720 Speaker 3: To watch golf. 941 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: And it happens every week where you can't find the 942 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,960 Speaker 1: golf you want to watch Ricky Fowler winning, you know, 943 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: first time in forever. 944 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 3: It's a huge story. People had to watch it not. 945 00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,880 Speaker 1: Streaming on their phones because they couldn't get on TV. 946 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,480 Speaker 1: And like golf still can't get the little things or 947 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,719 Speaker 1: the big They can't get anything right, but as an 948 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,840 Speaker 1: institution and then even the thing that seems like the 949 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:49,879 Speaker 1: simplest stuff, And. 950 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 3: So that was that was you know, this goes back 951 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,160 Speaker 3: to your first question. What was my takeaway? 952 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: One of my takeaways was, man, this this sport is 953 00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,760 Speaker 1: just it remains behind the times and it's so reactionary 954 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,040 Speaker 1: and when we're all in our little bubbles. You take 955 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,480 Speaker 1: it out into the big world where people are not 956 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,040 Speaker 1: part of the golf ecosystem, they can see it more clearly. 957 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,640 Speaker 1: And like, you know, Center Blumenthal could see it pretty clearly, 958 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,800 Speaker 1: and some of these other guys, like the their questioning 959 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,920 Speaker 1: was tough and it was on point. And because it 960 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,759 Speaker 1: takes sometimes an outsider to see what gets obscured by 961 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,120 Speaker 1: all of us in our own little silos, and. 962 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,720 Speaker 4: It comes back to me, like again we throw around 963 00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,439 Speaker 4: this term golf golf, I think it's important to note 964 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:38,880 Speaker 4: that what we're talking about is professional golf because the 965 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 4: golf that we know isn't going anywhere you know, my 966 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:48,200 Speaker 4: my community and the camaraderie that exists at goat Hill 967 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 4: Park or or you know, Winter Park nine or Lions 968 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,480 Speaker 4: Muni or the clubs that you're a member of or 969 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 4: like that's the good news is like we still have that, 970 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,279 Speaker 4: we still have travel, we still have golf destination, we 971 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,240 Speaker 4: still have our Buddies trip, we still have our annual 972 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 4: like and we have our we have the four Majors 973 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,359 Speaker 4: and whatever. This is when we reference sort of this 974 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,920 Speaker 4: golf and professional golf and the fight for you know, 975 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,359 Speaker 4: a big trophy in a big check. 976 00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,440 Speaker 5: I'm just it's like, let me know when. 977 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,839 Speaker 4: You guys figure it out, and let me know when 978 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,359 Speaker 4: you like feel good about something that you're presenting as 979 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 4: something that we should tune into on a regular basis, 980 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,680 Speaker 4: because it actually makes some sort of sense from a 981 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,960 Speaker 4: start to a finish of a season in which a 982 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,759 Speaker 4: player is player of the year or a. 983 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:38,400 Speaker 5: You know, I don't know. 984 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, get back to me when you 985 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,640 Speaker 4: when you actually decide to like come up with something 986 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,239 Speaker 4: that's worth you know, investing in from my you know, 987 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,400 Speaker 4: away from my family. 988 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,160 Speaker 5: You know, I know the game of golf is worth 989 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 5: my time, I know, but right now the world of 990 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,160 Speaker 5: professional golf just isn't. 991 00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's valid. I mean you almost have to separate it. 992 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,600 Speaker 1: Like all this these tour wars and all this stuff. 993 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,759 Speaker 1: It's like its own spectator sport. You know, it's become 994 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,120 Speaker 1: more interesting. 995 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 5: Than the actual sport. And that's the problem. 996 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,320 Speaker 1: But you know, if you go if I was running 997 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: around Oak Hill on Sunday and it was pretty electric, 998 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:21,000 Speaker 1: like if you go to golf tournament and it's especially now, 999 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,240 Speaker 1: I mean it's you'll catch a few strays from the crowd. 1000 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,720 Speaker 1: But it's still such a great theater. 1001 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,120 Speaker 3: You know, this this. 1002 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,200 Speaker 1: Mind body battle that the top players are all alone 1003 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,400 Speaker 1: out there between the ropes, like the inherent tension and 1004 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 1: greatness of tournament golf. If you can separate these things, 1005 00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,040 Speaker 1: it's still really fun to be part of. But for 1006 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,960 Speaker 1: two years now, all the other stuff has overwhelmed the 1007 00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,200 Speaker 1: conversation and that's going to be the rest of this year, 1008 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,560 Speaker 1: and it's going to continue into you know, twenty four, 1009 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,360 Speaker 1: no matter what happens. So I look at it as 1010 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,759 Speaker 1: a totally different sport and it's I mean, it's fun 1011 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,799 Speaker 1: to follow in its own right. You know, the golf 1012 00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,879 Speaker 1: is golf. I hate they're playing in Scotland this week. 1013 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: It's always fun to get up early and watch that telecast. 1014 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,359 Speaker 1: We got the Open Championship next week. Someone's gonna become 1015 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,759 Speaker 1: the champion golf for the year. In spite of all 1016 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,239 Speaker 1: of this. So I hear what you're saying, Maddie. I 1017 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,839 Speaker 1: think on some level, and this is modern life, right 1018 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,440 Speaker 1: like you have to you have to be able to 1019 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,960 Speaker 1: just sort of compartmentalize your thinking because if you go 1020 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,000 Speaker 1: out and you want to eat a steak, you can 1021 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,040 Speaker 1: feel really guilty about how much water it took to, 1022 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, to feed that cow, and what's happening to 1023 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,000 Speaker 1: the rainforest for they can they can graze cattle and 1024 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,799 Speaker 1: is it even humane? Sometimes you just want a steak. 1025 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:41,319 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? 1026 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:46,759 Speaker 1: So like you can overthink everything, and it's I'm not 1027 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,120 Speaker 1: taking away the validity of the other arguments, and I'm 1028 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,239 Speaker 1: no one more than me has been tuned into all 1029 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,080 Speaker 1: the intrigue and the drama around professional golf the last 1030 00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,360 Speaker 1: couple of years. It's fascinating in its own way. But 1031 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, Thursday of next week when they're playing the 1032 00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,759 Speaker 1: first round of the Open Championship, Like, I think a 1033 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,279 Speaker 1: lot of that stuffill melt away and we can still 1034 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,920 Speaker 1: enjoy the golf. But it's harder and harder. And I 1035 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,520 Speaker 1: think that's everything in life, I mean, as a consumer, 1036 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:17,719 Speaker 1: as a as a citizen, Like it's it's problematic we 1037 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,920 Speaker 1: know too much and we're exposed to too much, and 1038 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: and you never meet your heroes, Like that's never been 1039 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,120 Speaker 1: more true. Like it's all complex and and this this 1040 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:27,920 Speaker 1: was another day to reflect on that. 1041 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,560 Speaker 4: Well, we gotta we got to wrap this up because 1042 00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:38,440 Speaker 4: you've got to do additional additional amendments to this, this 1043 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 4: ongoing book that you're still that you're still writing. I 1044 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:47,840 Speaker 4: I I'm I'm marvel at and I know probably only 1045 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,880 Speaker 4: only your family knows more, uh more than I do 1046 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,719 Speaker 4: in terms of how hard you're you're trying to uh 1047 00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,200 Speaker 4: get this as current as possibly for it. Send, send, send, 1048 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,840 Speaker 4: So so keep going on. Almost feel like it's almost 1049 00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 4: become two books. 1050 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:04,120 Speaker 1: Now. 1051 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 5: It's the one prior. 1052 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,000 Speaker 4: To yeah, two weeks ago or three weeks ago, and 1053 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,560 Speaker 4: then there's there's this whole other Like I feel like 1054 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,040 Speaker 4: you're going to be writing this is just one ongoing 1055 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:16,280 Speaker 4: giant novel. 1056 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:17,640 Speaker 3: God help me. 1057 00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,160 Speaker 1: No, I mean it's yeah, it's like it's like writing 1058 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,640 Speaker 1: a bucking bronco. I mean this whole this whole process has. 1059 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,640 Speaker 5: Been haucking bronco. 1060 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:27,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1061 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,239 Speaker 1: I mean, anytime you write a book, the publishers a 1062 00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,600 Speaker 1: lawyer that vets it usually is pretty benign. I was 1063 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,520 Speaker 1: on the phone this morning with Simon Chuse or lawyer, 1064 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,640 Speaker 1: for two hours, and I said, I said, you're not 1065 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,840 Speaker 1: done yet. Man, like this this I'm going to refile 1066 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,400 Speaker 1: the last chapter again and probably one more time, and 1067 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,280 Speaker 1: so it's still coming. 1068 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,879 Speaker 3: But it's cool. 1069 00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:48,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's going to be a cliffinger, and 1070 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,399 Speaker 1: none of us know how this story is going to end, 1071 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,000 Speaker 1: and it's it's not going to get it's not going 1072 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,279 Speaker 1: to get adjudicated for a while. But the book is 1073 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,640 Speaker 1: going to be up to the moment current as as 1074 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 1: much as you can do if something has to be 1075 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,440 Speaker 1: into it and distributed like that, like Simon Schuster is 1076 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,799 Speaker 1: letting me take this down to the wire. I've never 1077 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,239 Speaker 1: seen a publishing schedule that is this aggressive, and so 1078 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:13,080 Speaker 1: I'm appreciative of that and certainly everything that's happened today 1079 00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:14,759 Speaker 1: in the Senate, and I'll keep I'll spend the rest 1080 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,120 Speaker 1: of this week reporting it, and I'll keep updating it 1081 00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 1: and going. 1082 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,960 Speaker 3: Back in and adding things, and it's kind of fun. 1083 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it's been a hell of a challenge. I 1084 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,600 Speaker 1: thought I was done. That's not nearly the case. But 1085 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,320 Speaker 1: I'm enjoying the process. But at some point it's going 1086 00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:28,920 Speaker 1: to have to end. 1087 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:30,840 Speaker 3: Maybe, Yeah. 1088 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,120 Speaker 1: I mean, in some ways, you know, the Mickelson book 1089 00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,360 Speaker 1: and all the revelations of that helped kick off. 1090 00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:37,480 Speaker 3: This whole story. 1091 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,439 Speaker 1: This is the definitive account of everything that people don't 1092 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,360 Speaker 1: know about how we got to this moment. I suppose 1093 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,640 Speaker 1: there could be a third part into trilogy, but I 1094 00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:46,920 Speaker 1: don't know. 1095 00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,400 Speaker 3: I don't want to think about that right now. 1096 00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:51,840 Speaker 1: Let's end this podcast and I'll go take a nap 1097 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,160 Speaker 1: and then i'll come I'll come back with an answer 1098 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:54,800 Speaker 1: on the next one. 1099 00:57:54,840 --> 00:58:01,440 Speaker 4: But thanks again for your thoughts and commentary. And I 1100 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,280 Speaker 4: know a lot like others looking to you to actually 1101 00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:12,280 Speaker 4: bring some sense of of you know, middle ground information, 1102 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:17,000 Speaker 4: you know, bipartisan reporting and a better understanding and levity 1103 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:21,120 Speaker 4: to sort of you know, what's just transpired and what 1104 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:26,040 Speaker 4: might transpire in the future. I mean, so thanks for 1105 00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,920 Speaker 4: all this and and yeah, pleasure, I wouldn't want to 1106 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:30,600 Speaker 4: be your keyboard. 1107 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:33,760 Speaker 3: It's tickless. 1108 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,960 Speaker 1: I just use my fingertips so lightly. But yeah, I know, 1109 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,440 Speaker 1: it's fun. It's fun to talk about this stuff. I 1110 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,560 Speaker 1: appreciate what you said, like I do enjoy the role 1111 00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,840 Speaker 1: of trying to help people make sense of all this 1112 00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,280 Speaker 1: because it's a lot to synthesize, and there's there's new 1113 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,560 Speaker 1: stuff every day. So anyway, Yeah, it's always a good conversation. 1114 00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,160 Speaker 1: Definitely not the last one, so we will we will 1115 00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,800 Speaker 1: end this podcast for now. The people at home, Thanks 1116 00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,600 Speaker 1: for sticking with US. More fire drills on the way. 1117 00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,000 Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger will be over at the Open Championship for 1118 00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,840 Speaker 1: US next week and we'll be podcasting with him naturally. 1119 00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: Anytime there's a big news break, we'll be back back 1120 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,320 Speaker 1: at this, probably Matt and I and Sundry others. So 1121 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,600 Speaker 1: for mat Chanella, this is Alan Shipnik. That was a 1122 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,320 Speaker 1: fire droll podcast. Thanks for listening, and this is the end. 1123 00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:22,680 Speaker 3: I'm bed big again. 1124 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,959 Speaker 2: I played the wind, made a fortune when my ship 1125 00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:27,640 Speaker 2: came man. 1126 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,120 Speaker 5: I ran the table, never thought I could fall down. 1127 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,360 Speaker 2: The winter time hit made lack a canon the ball, 1128 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:42,720 Speaker 2: and now I can't shake this losing streak. Every road 1129 00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:48,200 Speaker 2: I take is a dead end street. I got thoughts 1130 00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,760 Speaker 2: in my head, can't get him. Trying not to think 1131 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,560 Speaker 2: what I'm thinking about, not going thoughts in my head, 1132 00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,720 Speaker 2: I can't get him. Now, try and not think what 1133 01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:10,520 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about. H