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Speaker 1: dot com. Hello and welcome to Unexplained Extra, or this
Speaker 1: special edition of Unexplained Extra, I should say with me
Speaker 1: Richard McClane Smith. So this week, as you may be aware,
Speaker 1: I announced that I would do a one off sort
Speaker 1: of question and answer episode to coincide with the upcoming
Speaker 1: release of the book Unexplained. In light of that announcement,
Speaker 1: I had a number of people asking me what were
Speaker 1: the books that had inspired me or the show, So
Speaker 1: I just thought, rather than putting up a list on
Speaker 1: social media, why not just talk about them. And I've
Speaker 1: been overwhelmed with the response, So thank you all so
Speaker 1: much for getting in touch and given me your questions.
Speaker 1: I've managed to condense it down to about fifteen or so,
Speaker 1: I think. Apologies if I haven't included yours on the show.
Speaker 1: So just a couple of quick, easy ones to start
Speaker 1: off with. Few people had asked me about the music,
Speaker 1: So the music and the show I composed that myself
Speaker 1: and you can hear quite a large part of it
Speaker 1: on the Unexplained SoundCloud. So if you wanted to hear that,
Speaker 1: you could go to SoundCloud dot com forward slash Unexplained
Speaker 1: Podcast I think is the address and you can find
Speaker 1: it there. And the other question that quite a few
Speaker 1: of you are asking, was is the book going to
Speaker 1: be an audiobook as well? And will I be narrating it?
Speaker 1: And the answer to that is yes, I will be.
Speaker 1: And so at the moment, the book is due out
Speaker 1: in the UK October twenty fifth, and we are sort
Speaker 1: of talking about getting it distributed in the US and
Speaker 1: Canada as well, So I think just watch this space
Speaker 1: on that one. So let's begin. I had quite a
Speaker 1: few questions in a similar vein to this one, so
Speaker 1: I'll just take one, which is from Conan, who asks
Speaker 1: have you ever had a personal supernatural experience? So the
Speaker 1: short answer to that is no, But something that I
Speaker 1: might talk about in more depth later on in the
Speaker 1: question is that I suppose you could also say that
Speaker 1: maybe I have, but I wasn't aware that it was supernatural.
Speaker 1: But I think what I do find fascinating, though, is
Speaker 1: that I have heard from lots of people, and from
Speaker 1: people that I would consider to be perfectly rational and
Speaker 1: intelligent people who claim that they have seen things that
Speaker 1: I might have previously dismissed. So I suppose that just
Speaker 1: leaves me wondering what it was exactly that was seen
Speaker 1: or what was experienced So next one from Lee Britain.
Speaker 1: Have you had an opportunity to meet with anyone directly
Speaker 1: involved with any of the events that you've mentioned. If so,
Speaker 1: who was the most convincing I have, Actually, I've not.
Speaker 1: I haven't in person. I have over the phone or
Speaker 1: on Skype or email. I've spoken to people that have
Speaker 1: been at the center of some of these stories, and
Speaker 1: I mean they've all been convincing. I mean and in
Speaker 1: fact that the sort of thread that runs through the
Speaker 1: more really was that none of them were absolutely convinced
Speaker 1: that what had been experienced was supernatural or paranormal, but
Speaker 1: I'd say they had an interest in that as a
Speaker 1: as a potential or a possibility in the main, I
Speaker 1: guess I don't think they were making up what they
Speaker 1: think they experienced. Did that make sense? So the next question, again,
Speaker 1: this is one that I had quite a few questions
Speaker 1: in a sort of that were similar in one way
Speaker 1: or another. So let's just take Steve. Steve asks of
Speaker 1: all the podcasts you have researched, which if you found
Speaker 1: the most disturbing, Which is the most scariest. So this
Speaker 1: is a difficult one. The ones that were disturbing and
Speaker 1: scary I think I would have to say, are the
Speaker 1: ones that involved the most sort of traumatic outcomes or events.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the time, I mean a lot
Speaker 1: of the time, these stories, as terrifying as they might be,
Speaker 1: they don't, you know, they don't result in somebody dying
Speaker 1: or being killed. And except for one which I told
Speaker 1: in the first season, which was about you might know
Speaker 1: it's called Demons in Suburbia, which was a story about
Speaker 1: a man called Michael Taylor who had quite tragically and
Speaker 1: dramatically been affected in one way or another by an
Speaker 1: exorcism that was practiced on him, and the consequence of
Speaker 1: that was that he murdered his wife in quite horrific circumstances.
Speaker 1: So I don't have much more to say on that
Speaker 1: because I don't I'm not so familiar with the case
Speaker 1: and life of Michael Taylor that I would be able
Speaker 1: to comment possibly about the reasons and wise awarefores of
Speaker 1: what happened. But that was certainly the one that I think,
Speaker 1: as a story alone, was the most disturbing. Okay, so
Speaker 1: not particularly related to the last few questions, but let's
Speaker 1: do the first book anyhow. So this book's been a
Speaker 1: huge influence on me I think, not just for the show,
Speaker 1: not for the way I write, or for the way
Speaker 1: I certainly would like to write or aspire to write.
Speaker 1: It's a book that was reckoned mended to me quite
Speaker 1: a while ago as a sort of it was recommended
Speaker 1: as a travel book, but I think the intention wasn't
Speaker 1: to reduce it in such a way. But that's how
Speaker 1: I remember it anyhow, and so when I read it,
Speaker 1: it opened up into so many other things that I
Speaker 1: hadn't been expecting. So the book is called The Rings
Speaker 1: of Saturn's by W. G. Sibald. Superficially, the book presents
Speaker 1: as an account of one man's journey through Suffolk, the
Speaker 1: Suffolk Coast, particularly in East Anglia in the United Kingdom.
Speaker 1: But quite quickly it becomes apparent that there was quite
Speaker 1: a bit more going on. So you find yourself being
Speaker 1: taken on this extraordinary, very melancholic journey into the workings
Speaker 1: of Sibald's mind. I think the way he sort of
Speaker 1: touches upon the things that the landscape inspires in him
Speaker 1: in a sort of ruminations and his thoughts as as
Speaker 1: he's making this journey, and from that you get sort
Speaker 1: of taken on this extraordinary sort of epic trip through
Speaker 1: lots of different waypoints and connections that are being triggered
Speaker 1: as as he's making his way through the countryside, and
Speaker 1: it's become quite a sort of major touchdone I think
Speaker 1: of modern psychogeographic writing. So I mean, I'm sure there
Speaker 1: are lots of different opinions on this out there as
Speaker 1: to the you know, the quality of it in compare
Speaker 1: in comparison to other books, but I would say that
Speaker 1: it's certainly become one of the better known sort of
Speaker 1: examples of this sort of writing. Just the expanse of
Speaker 1: information alone that throughout the book is quite extraordinary. It's
Speaker 1: a sort of domino effect. He has sort of way
Speaker 1: of exploding information from one thing, connecting from one thing
Speaker 1: to the next. And actually a very sort of brief note,
Speaker 1: I would say, at one point he talks about Joseph
Speaker 1: Conrad being in lower stuff, I think, and he draws
Speaker 1: a connection there between that as the beginning of a
Speaker 1: journey that's endpoint was essentially the horrors of colonialism, and
Speaker 1: so another book I would say to sort of very
Speaker 1: briefly recommend that has been quite a big inspiration on
Speaker 1: me and in some ways unexplained is Joseph Comrade's Heart
Speaker 1: of Darkness. And so with this book, I think what
Speaker 1: I've drawn from it in terms of unexplained is just
Speaker 1: the sort of the sense of the horror of humanity
Speaker 1: really and what human beings are capable of. And I'm
Speaker 1: not quite sure this is explored in the book, but
Speaker 1: the sort of idea that human beings don't perpetrate evil
Speaker 1: acts that there's no such thing as evil in that respect,
Speaker 1: I mean that humanity is all of it. So for
Speaker 1: me personally, I don't think there's a moral arbiter that
Speaker 1: dictates what is and what isn't evil. There's nobody is
Speaker 1: making that judgment on our behalf. We do that ourselves.
Speaker 1: Of course, we can as a society decide together which
Speaker 1: things we determined to be wrong or bad or unpalatable
Speaker 1: or criminal. And as a sort of slight extension to
Speaker 1: that point, I think the certainly the kind of setting
Speaker 1: and the locations and many of the things that are
Speaker 1: occurring in Heart of Darkness are based on true stories
Speaker 1: and true things that happened, and I think the sort
Speaker 1: of ultimate true horror really is that, And I think
Speaker 1: I tend to find this quite often, is that the
Speaker 1: reality of the stories. If you if you read the
Speaker 1: actual stories about what took place under King Leopold the
Speaker 1: Second of Belgium, who was the spearheading this colonial campaign,
Speaker 1: the fact is you find that it's almost impossible to
Speaker 1: come up with the reality of the terrible things that
Speaker 1: were happened. You know that the real story is even worse.
Speaker 1: So let's try and come back a bit from that,
Speaker 1: because I think I don't know if I can take
Speaker 1: that any any darker. So let's get back to questions.
Speaker 1: I think it's starting to get a sense now of
Speaker 1: where Unexplained comes from. So is a message from Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: So what determines what catches your interest? Is it mostly
Speaker 1: what intrigues you or more about how easy you find
Speaker 1: to communicate the story? Well, I think what catches my
Speaker 1: interest first and foremost, especially because of the nature of
Speaker 1: the show and it being based on ideas that are
Speaker 1: unexplained and remained to this day unexplained. The key thing
Speaker 1: is is having a story that's not too easy to debunk,
Speaker 1: I suppose, or having a story that's not that doesn't
Speaker 1: present itself too obviously as being a hoax. So I
Speaker 1: suppose the best stories for me are the ones that
Speaker 1: sort of really stretched that suspension of disbelief as far
Speaker 1: as possible. So sometimes I find that that will supersede
Speaker 1: whether I personally am into that kind of story, and
Speaker 1: as well, A lot of the time I find that
Speaker 1: digging a bit deeper into the story, it will sort
Speaker 1: of reveal itself to be actually more interesting and more
Speaker 1: fascinating than I had first imagined. Okay, I've got quite
Speaker 1: a few questions here about how I got involved in
Speaker 1: doing this, and what I was before unexplained and all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. So without giving too much away,
Speaker 1: I don't want to destroy the illusion completely, but I have,
Speaker 1: I think, for quite some time, been trying to write,
Speaker 1: and you know, get somewhere doing that, and it's a
Speaker 1: case really of just discovering an outlet where I could
Speaker 1: write something and it actually becomes something. A lot of
Speaker 1: the time, you know, if you're writing any form of writing,
Speaker 1: really you're trying to get through some kind of gateway
Speaker 1: to get into something that legitimizes what you're doing and
Speaker 1: also gets what you're doing out there. So whether it's
Speaker 1: to be published or to have an article printed in
Speaker 1: a magazine, or to have a TV show commission or
Speaker 1: something like that, you know, if you're very if you're
Speaker 1: very lucky, and so those things to take time, and
Speaker 1: they take a lot of effort, and they require you
Speaker 1: to be you're at the whim of somebody else's taste.
Speaker 1: And I think Explained really started as a combination of
Speaker 1: having that ambition, but also the fascination with these stories
Speaker 1: and not being quite sure what to do with them,
Speaker 1: and then discovering the podcast and what the podcast was.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think that's something we're a lot
Speaker 1: more familiar with now, but a few years ago, you know,
Speaker 1: it's sort of I didn't really understand it in the
Speaker 1: way that I do now, and I could craft it
Speaker 1: myself and put it up myself and all that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff. The show was kind of born, and it
Speaker 1: evolved a bit in the process of, you know, understanding
Speaker 1: what a podcast can be and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: And and I've been completely overwhelmed by the fact that
Speaker 1: that anybody listened to it at all. So I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a great chance to thank you all again.
Speaker 1: Anybody who listens to the show has supported the show
Speaker 1: for the incredible kind words and you know, and the
Speaker 1: encouragement that I've been given. Yeah, it's been extraordinary. And
Speaker 1: just to finish that point off, ru Howe asks, or
Speaker 1: Ruhu says, I'm presuming you do it all in a dark,
Speaker 1: wood paneled, book lined room, sitting in a leather armchair
Speaker 1: with a pipe and a bottle of single malt. And
Speaker 1: the answer is yes, of course, that's exactly how I
Speaker 1: do it. Rue also asks, is the cover picture of
Speaker 1: reference to Twin Peaks? I think in many ways you
Speaker 1: could probably say everything I do as a reference to
Speaker 1: Twin Peaks. So although that wasn't actually wasn't thinking of
Speaker 1: Twin Peaks when I chose it, But yes, of course,
Speaker 1: I mean subconsciously absolutely, it's probably where I've I've found
Speaker 1: that I've got that idea from. So Christopher asks, my
Speaker 1: question is do you have trouble sleeping at night or
Speaker 1: going about your daily life having made podcasts on such
Speaker 1: other worldly material? So I would say yes, So, yes,
Speaker 1: I do. I do because I am always thinking about
Speaker 1: the story or the next story, and invariably because of
Speaker 1: the subject matter it, Yeah, it becomes it's very easy
Speaker 1: for your imagination to run wild. So on that note,
Speaker 1: and I think this is the more seamless transition to
Speaker 1: the next book. So the next book that has inspired me,
Speaker 1: and Unexplained is actually a collection of stories, but primarily
Speaker 1: the one called Don't Look Now, which I'm sure many
Speaker 1: of you will be familiar with, the Daphne Demurier short story,
Speaker 1: which was later made into a brilliant film by Nicholas Rogue.
Speaker 1: And so this really inspires me. And there's another book
Speaker 1: as well I will talk about sort of in tandem
Speaker 1: with this one, which is Joe Lindsay's Picnic Hanging Rock.
Speaker 1: So there are lots of reasons why I love both
Speaker 1: these books, but I suppose we should we could start
Speaker 1: with tone. So this is something I think I've probably
Speaker 1: quite deliberately, in one way or another, try to replicate
Speaker 1: in Unexplained, which is to create the idea of the
Speaker 1: sort of sense of a world that's familiar and real
Speaker 1: and genuine and kind of scrutable, but then have this
Speaker 1: air of something else, the possibility of something else, something
Speaker 1: more enigmatic and and sort of intangible and you know,
Speaker 1: magical in a way. I think you know, whether that
Speaker 1: be spooky or terrifying magic or not. And I think
Speaker 1: more than any other book that I've certainly read, these
Speaker 1: these both these stories do that in an incredible ways,
Speaker 1: and I think picnicer Hanging Rock is. It's probably more
Speaker 1: enigmatic since it's so essentially if you're not familiar with
Speaker 1: the story it's it was set I think in nineteen hundred,
Speaker 1: on Valentine's Day in nineteen hundred, some girls from a
Speaker 1: school are taken on a trip through the outback in Australia,
Speaker 1: in Victoria, I think, in the state of Victoria and
Speaker 1: Australia to a sort of strange natural landmark known as
Speaker 1: Hanging Rock, which I've actually been to and it is
Speaker 1: just as a sort of specials as sort of portrayed
Speaker 1: in the book. But so anyway, a couple of these
Speaker 1: schoolgirls going and as well as their teacher. I think
Speaker 1: I might have the wrong but they go missing and
Speaker 1: there's no explanation, and I can't tell you much more
Speaker 1: to give anything away, but it's incredibly mysterious, beautifully portrayed story,
Speaker 1: and it's very sort of hypnotic that of course goes
Speaker 1: into all sorts of other things about sort of adolescent
Speaker 1: awakening and all sorts of things like that. So thoroughly
Speaker 1: recommended anyway, whether you like ghost stories or not. It's
Speaker 1: not actually imperative to enjoy the story, so we don't look.
Speaker 1: Now it's a sort of similar thing, but I think
Speaker 1: there's more the sort of supernatural paranormal stuff going on,
Speaker 1: which is particularly compelling because it's done in this way
Speaker 1: where it's not sort of hysterical and so strange that
Speaker 1: it's off putting or distracting. It's sort of to Maurier
Speaker 1: and sort of merges them into the world that we
Speaker 1: think we know in such a way that I don't
Speaker 1: think has been I don't think has been bettered actually,
Speaker 1: So yeah, read those books. So back to the questions.
Speaker 1: I had a couple quite similar from Malcolm and Tom
Speaker 1: who asked do you have your own conclusions to the
Speaker 1: stories your research? And Tom asks are there any that
Speaker 1: you truly believe have answers that lie beyond known science?
Speaker 1: So these are good questions actually in relation to the
Speaker 1: nature of the show, And you know, my kind of
Speaker 1: thinking behind putting it together, and that really is that
Speaker 1: I know this might sound strange, but I don't. Going
Speaker 1: back to Malcolm's question, do I have my own conclusions
Speaker 1: to the stories? I actually don't dwell on that too much.
Speaker 1: I think what makes them interesting is that they that
Speaker 1: they are these sort of open mysteries and unanswered questions
Speaker 1: that then in turn invite new questions. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think we're when you allow these stories to just
Speaker 1: sort of be, rather than try and interrogate them too much.
Speaker 1: I think that is where they sort of come most
Speaker 1: alive and and provoke the most sort of interesting discussion.
Speaker 1: And I think this is something I've tried to do
Speaker 1: as well that I hope comes across, which is that
Speaker 1: it's not that that doesn't mean that the story has
Speaker 1: to be the ghost wasn't real, or it wasn't really
Speaker 1: a poltergeist or whatever, and that that's the end of
Speaker 1: the story. You know that if you were to that,
Speaker 1: if we were able to conclude once and for all
Speaker 1: that no, this didn't happen, and this is actually what happened,
Speaker 1: and you have that sort of full fact laid out
Speaker 1: in front of you, I think even if that were
Speaker 1: the case, I don't think that would be the end
Speaker 1: of the story. Often say that I think even if
Speaker 1: it were to be proven once and for all that
Speaker 1: God didn't exist, I think people would still believe in it,
Speaker 1: or believe in her or him or however where you
Speaker 1: hold the divine, and I think that in itself is
Speaker 1: sort of equally as fascinating as to whether there's a
Speaker 1: definitive answer or not. Kind of draws me on to
Speaker 1: my next question, which is from m who talks about
Speaker 1: how I sometimes use the mysterious and the fourteen as
Speaker 1: a lens to explore deeper historical and sociological themes, And
Speaker 1: is there any other literature that you are drawing on
Speaker 1: that specifically looks into the sociology of fear about the
Speaker 1: mysterious and the paranormal. So I don't specifically, but that
Speaker 1: would be certainly be a very interesting thing to look
Speaker 1: at how people's fears maybe not manipulated, but we're sort
Speaker 1: of concentrated around specific ideas of the time or things
Speaker 1: that have happened in the time, and certainly today you
Speaker 1: can see the ways in which people's fears are stoked
Speaker 1: and manipulated by the media. And so one very good
Speaker 1: documentary you can watch all about that is called The
Speaker 1: Power of Nightmares by Adam Curtis, which I thoroughly recommend
Speaker 1: you want to learn a bit more about that. So
Speaker 1: the next book is Straw Dogs by the philosopher John Gray,
Speaker 1: not the same John Gray, who wrote Men Are from Mars,
Speaker 1: Women Are from Venus, a very different John Gray and
Speaker 1: not the film is not the films draw Dogs. So
Speaker 1: this is an entire thing on its own, straw Dogs
Speaker 1: by John Gray. And the subtitle is Thoughts on Humans
Speaker 1: and Other Animals. And I think when I read this book,
Speaker 1: it was the first time I sort of really started
Speaker 1: to understand and look a bit more broadly on the
Speaker 1: human race and what it is to be human and
Speaker 1: sort of picking apart the delusion that we have about
Speaker 1: who we are and our sort of deluded sense of
Speaker 1: separateness from the natural world, and the way we sort
Speaker 1: of position ourselves apart from other animals. In fact, frequently
Speaker 1: you will often hear people say talk about humans and
Speaker 1: animals almost as if we're not part of that group.
Speaker 1: So it goes into I mean, there's a lot more,
Speaker 1: way more than I can sort of expound on here,
Speaker 1: but I would, yes, just thoroughly recommend it. It's well
Speaker 1: worth reading, and you know, I think it's it's a
Speaker 1: complicated point about whether we need to be more aware
Speaker 1: of the damage we do of the delusions that we
Speaker 1: have as human beings. I mean, you could also argue
Speaker 1: that into the being deluded. That is also a natural
Speaker 1: sort of form of existence in a way, but it
Speaker 1: certainly doesn't hurt to kind of think more broadly about
Speaker 1: about that and what that means, and what that means
Speaker 1: for the way that we think of ourselves and think
Speaker 1: of others as well. So next question is from Daniel,
Speaker 1: what advice would you give to other creative types who
Speaker 1: want to create cool stuff like you? Well, thank you
Speaker 1: first of all for calling Unexplained cool. That's very kind.
Speaker 1: But also I would just say as well that I
Speaker 1: think everybody is creative. Everybody is a creative type. We
Speaker 1: all in our own ways can be creative or find
Speaker 1: ways to be creative. But that being said, of course
Speaker 1: I think you know what you mean, So I would say,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it depends on what it is you're
Speaker 1: trying to create. But if we're talking about writing, for example,
Speaker 1: and of course Unexplained as a podcast, but really what
Speaker 1: it's based on is writing and storytelling and having a
Speaker 1: sense of how to engage an audience. I don't know
Speaker 1: to what degree I'm especially successful at doing that or not,
Speaker 1: but I think if I've learned anything, really, it's understanding
Speaker 1: structure and the structure of storytelling. And I think when
Speaker 1: I was starting out, when I was much younger, and
Speaker 1: I had ambitions of writing and aspirations of doing all
Speaker 1: sorts of things with that, I didn't really understand why
Speaker 1: it was important in the way that I do now,
Speaker 1: and which is really that it's not that you need
Speaker 1: to follow rules and you need to kind of adopt
Speaker 1: certain techniques. It's just more that having an understanding of
Speaker 1: them is it gives you such a head start in
Speaker 1: terms of approaching a blank page, which is as most
Speaker 1: people who write, I imagine will tell you, is the
Speaker 1: kind of the worst bit is that initial getting something
Speaker 1: down and having something to work with. And so I
Speaker 1: think just understanding structure and how to tell a story
Speaker 1: and reading up on that sort of thing can be really,
Speaker 1: really beneficial. And of course once you know it and
Speaker 1: you understand why certain things work the way they do,
Speaker 1: then you can play around with it and you can
Speaker 1: dismiss it out of hand. I think. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: basically the point is that it's better to know something
Speaker 1: and ignore it than to not be aware of it.
Speaker 1: I think in this sense not always the case, absolutely
Speaker 1: not always the case, but from my experience anyway, I
Speaker 1: think that has been helpful, and to that end, I
Speaker 1: will recommend a couple of books that I think as
Speaker 1: a writer really helped me. So one is Wide for
Speaker 1: Story by Lisa Kron, which is really just an introduction
Speaker 1: into how to kind of hook a reader into your story,
Speaker 1: and it's just very sort of clear. It's very very
Speaker 1: clear and easy to read, and again it's things you
Speaker 1: can sort of take or discard at your own sort
Speaker 1: of discretion. And in a similar vein another book that
Speaker 1: I found quite isful was Writing the TV Drama Series
Speaker 1: by Pamela Douglas, And as you can tell from the title,
Speaker 1: obviously this is specifically for TV drama, but I think
Speaker 1: a lot of the same rules apply to whatever kind
Speaker 1: of narrative writing you are trying to do. That's what
Speaker 1: you're trying to do. And lastly, just quickly, another book
Speaker 1: that I've really helped me starting out was a book
Speaker 1: called How to Write a Novel by the author John Brain,
Speaker 1: who is most well known for a book he wrote
Speaker 1: called Room at the Top. And so again it's you
Speaker 1: might not be wanting to write a novel specifically, but
Speaker 1: it just has a lot of kind of really great
Speaker 1: lessons and ideas about how to get started and how
Speaker 1: to really just start tackling the thing that you're trying
Speaker 1: to do. And it's a big you know, writing anything is,
Speaker 1: it's difficult, so it mainly requires practice and and the
Speaker 1: other thing, of course, it's just reading and watching and
Speaker 1: listening to as much as you can and sort of
Speaker 1: taking that in and trying to absorb it. So onto
Speaker 1: the next questions, So Samantha asks, do you believe in
Speaker 1: the existence of beings not in our realm? In light
Speaker 1: of your extensive research over the past years and putting
Speaker 1: together Unexplained podcast and your new book, have you been
Speaker 1: swayed one way or another in this belief? So I
Speaker 1: think this goes back a little bit to the earlier
Speaker 1: questions about what I what conclusions I've drawn myself from
Speaker 1: some of these stories. And I think the key word
Speaker 1: here is believe. So you know, it's something that comes up,
Speaker 1: particularly with supernatural paranormal and you know, just stories in
Speaker 1: general of that kind, which is the sort of notion
Speaker 1: of belief and what you believe in and what you
Speaker 1: believe is possible. So I think for me, there was
Speaker 1: a quote and I can't remember who says it who
Speaker 1: said it? Rather what it was to do with having
Speaker 1: seen a particular supposed paranormal event, and in the response
Speaker 1: was that I didn't say it was possible, I said
Speaker 1: it happened. And I think that's really the approach to
Speaker 1: take to the stories, which is that I've known reason
Speaker 1: to disbelieve the anecdotal evidence that's being presented, so I
Speaker 1: take it at face value. And you know that might
Speaker 1: be silly or gullible or ignorant, but the point is
Speaker 1: really that is to display the things as they occurred,
Speaker 1: or as we're sort of led to believe they occurred,
Speaker 1: without interrogating that too much. But going back to the
Speaker 1: question so about belief, Well, really the thing is that
Speaker 1: I don't think I have seen or come across anything
Speaker 1: that was that would convince me of a parallel or
Speaker 1: supernatural thing being real actually having taken place. But you know,
Speaker 1: I equally haven't seen anything that would that can say
Speaker 1: once and for all that it hasn't either, So within that,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I couldn't possibly commit something being
Speaker 1: real and until there was there was evidence enough for
Speaker 1: that to be a certainty. And of course the thing
Speaker 1: is in actual life, the things that we consider to
Speaker 1: be real and absolutely true. You know, it's rare to
Speaker 1: find that sort of certainty too if you if you
Speaker 1: start interrogating things, you get start to get a bit
Speaker 1: closer and down and dirty with things. You find that
Speaker 1: the things that we do think are true and real
Speaker 1: aren't in fact as true and real as we might
Speaker 1: think they are, which is also I think a big
Speaker 1: sort of theme of the show. So Jeff asks, were
Speaker 1: there any potential episodes that you nixed because the subject
Speaker 1: matter creeped you out too much? So no, absolutely not.
Speaker 1: I think the creepier the better, I would say. Which
Speaker 1: brings me to my next book recommendation, or rather book
Speaker 1: that has inspired and explained. So this is a writer
Speaker 1: that will be familiar to many people who listen to
Speaker 1: the show. This is HP Lovecraft. Lovecraft is a complicated
Speaker 1: writer to sort of admire, ostensibly because I think it's
Speaker 1: quite well documented that he was he was quite racist,
Speaker 1: and he had a sort of fear of I think
Speaker 1: what he was anti Semitic, and also but had a
Speaker 1: particularly repugnant attitude towards anybody who wasn't white, and I
Speaker 1: think primarily to Americans who were black. So why that
Speaker 1: becomes particularly complicated in terms of his stories, is that
Speaker 1: that fear that he had of this otherness, of what
Speaker 1: he perceived to be this otherness, as what I would say,
Speaker 1: as ignorant and appalling as that was, it was that
Speaker 1: fear that he used that was obviously very visceral to him,
Speaker 1: that was then sort of imbued in the text and
Speaker 1: the language that he used in his sort of horror stories.
Speaker 1: So in many ways, the reason why they're so compelling
Speaker 1: is because that fear was so real to him, and
Speaker 1: so of course that makes it incredibly odd and complicated
Speaker 1: and strange when you're reading these stories. Sort of knowing
Speaker 1: that fear is the foundation on which these stories are
Speaker 1: built and constructed, you know, that is a complicated thing.
Speaker 1: That is a complicated thing to kind of hold that
Speaker 1: at the same time, but separating the story from that,
Speaker 1: what remains are incredibly gripping, horrifying stories and there, and
Speaker 1: they're particularly horrifying because they you can sort of feel
Speaker 1: that sense of terror person I find it something is
Speaker 1: writing quite dense, and it can feel sometimes a bit
Speaker 1: of a troll to get through, but always within it
Speaker 1: this sort of extraordinary imagination of other worlds that are created.
Speaker 1: And what I find most compelling about it is that
Speaker 1: the that unlike lots of other stories of this kind
Speaker 1: of ilk where you're encouraged ultimately to think that there
Speaker 1: was some kind of psychological catalyst that was provoking these stories,
Speaker 1: but with Lovecraft, a lot of the time it's actually,
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're invited to think that the horror
Speaker 1: is real. It's not imaginary. That these creatures, you know,
Speaker 1: are existing in their own sort of autonomous way, whether
Speaker 1: they be in another realm or under the sea, sort
Speaker 1: of subterranean things. And so that I find that particularly compelling.
Speaker 1: I mean the book I have if to me at
Speaker 1: the moment, it's a collection of his stories. This is
Speaker 1: Lovecraft The Call of Clulu or Cthulu, a few different
Speaker 1: ideas on how to say that, and other weird stories.
Speaker 1: And if I had to pick one for any of
Speaker 1: you who haven't read him before, let's go for The
Speaker 1: Shadow over Innsmouth. This is actually one of his longer stories,
Speaker 1: but plot wise and the revelation that you will discover
Speaker 1: on reading it, I think it's it's certainly for me anyway,
Speaker 1: it's one of his best. We'll wrap this up with
Speaker 1: a couple more questions, Andrew asks. He says, there's probably
Speaker 1: a lot of people asking this, but actually you are
Speaker 1: the only one, so thank you. It's a good question.
Speaker 1: If you could know the definitive answer to just one
Speaker 1: unexplained mystery, what would it be and why? So again,
Speaker 1: going back to the previous questions, I don't feel the
Speaker 1: need necessarily to know the answer, but I think the
Speaker 1: one I would most like to know would be the Lightkeepers,
Speaker 1: the Lighthousekeepers rather from I think episode eight of the
Speaker 1: first season, which was called When the Light Fades. I think,
Speaker 1: as some other people have asked me, what was my
Speaker 1: own personal favorite, I think that for me is my
Speaker 1: favorite one so far. And the reason why I'd like
Speaker 1: to know that is because I think anything that involves,
Speaker 1: you know, missing people, missing individuals, I think there's something
Speaker 1: inherently and obviously terribly tragic about that. For anyone that's
Speaker 1: been left behind and not knowing what has happened to
Speaker 1: a loved one that has disappeared, I think is you know,
Speaker 1: in some ways, almost more horrific than the finding out
Speaker 1: that they might have been killed. So Deepmar asks, what
Speaker 1: is the appeal of the unexplained in general for you especially,
Speaker 1: is it even a good idea to concern oneself with
Speaker 1: stuff like that? Wouldn't it be healthier not to do that? Well,
Speaker 1: so I know where you're coming from in terms of
Speaker 1: you know, I think if you, if you're someone who
Speaker 1: might dismiss all these stories out of hand, then it
Speaker 1: seems a bit a bit of a nonsense to even
Speaker 1: kind of give them the light of day or the
Speaker 1: darkness of night as it were, or you know, to
Speaker 1: give them any sort of sense of credibility whatsoever. And
Speaker 1: I think, again, I think that maybe going back to
Speaker 1: something I said earlier, I think that attitude has its
Speaker 1: own ignorance in a way. I think everything can have
Speaker 1: a potential worth. You know, I don't again, it doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be that that we commit to the
Speaker 1: supernatural paranormal explanation, But I think all these stories have
Speaker 1: something in them, certainly from a human perspective. There are elements,
Speaker 1: There are lots of things within these stories that can
Speaker 1: throw up all sorts of questions and ideas and things
Speaker 1: that go way sort of above and beyond and transcend
Speaker 1: the basic kind of question of whether these things really
Speaker 1: happened or what the actual explanation was, and whether that
Speaker 1: explanation is something beyond what we currently know or are
Speaker 1: aware of as being possible in our world or our reality,
Speaker 1: which brings me to my next book recommendation, which is
Speaker 1: Ways of Seeing by John Burger. John Berger was a
Speaker 1: I think primarily or professionally. His sort of title I
Speaker 1: suppose was art critic, but he's much more than that,
Speaker 1: and he's written on lots of different subjects, but I
Speaker 1: think Ways of Seeing is probably what he was best
Speaker 1: known for, so this book. Funnily enough, I won this
Speaker 1: when I was about nine or ten years old. I
Speaker 1: think I did. I'm a bit hazy on this, but
Speaker 1: I think I won this when I took part in
Speaker 1: something called the Spaghetti Bridge building competition, which is exactly
Speaker 1: as it sounds. When I was at school. I think
Speaker 1: our class got put forward for this, and the team
Speaker 1: I was in, myself and two others, we came third
Speaker 1: in a national competition, so I was very proud of myself,
Speaker 1: but I think really it might have had something to
Speaker 1: do with the fact that one of my team members
Speaker 1: is dad's was an architect, and I think he might
Speaker 1: have helped plan the bridge. Anyway, we came third, and
Speaker 1: one of the things I won as a sort of
Speaker 1: nine or ten year old. This was this book Ways
Speaker 1: of Seeing by John Berger, which I was far too
Speaker 1: young to appreciate at the time. I don't think I
Speaker 1: even read this till late teens, early twenties, but I'm
Speaker 1: glad I did because basically, and there's a bit of
Speaker 1: a bit of a theme here, I suppose developing with
Speaker 1: Unexplained in general, which is that all the book is
Speaker 1: really trying to teach you is that there are different
Speaker 1: ways to see the world, that there are many different perspectives.
Speaker 1: And I think it's something that's become just in mainstream,
Speaker 1: everyday kind of conversation. I think it's something we're becoming
Speaker 1: more aware of now and are interrogating more and more,
Speaker 1: this idea that there's there's not one way to hold
Speaker 1: the world, or that there's no you know, there's not
Speaker 1: one version of history, there's not one version of the truth.
Speaker 1: I think more kind of potently, and so yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a book really that kind of establishes that in
Speaker 1: a very sort of simplistic and powerful way. And you know,
Speaker 1: by looking at art specifically and the ways in which
Speaker 1: we as individuals can sort of interpret the same piece
Speaker 1: of work in different ways, but also how the way
Speaker 1: that work is or art is interpreted differently throughout the years. So,
Speaker 1: for example, anybody looking at a painting that was that
Speaker 1: was made four hundred years ago is not going to
Speaker 1: have the same context that you might have had had
Speaker 1: you looked at it when it was first painted, and
Speaker 1: so the effect of that piece of art is kind
Speaker 1: of distorted in some way. So the effect of that painting,
Speaker 1: that piece of art that it has on the viewer
Speaker 1: is is changed by not only the sort of context
Speaker 1: of the time that it's being observed, but also by
Speaker 1: what the viewer brings to the observation. So I think
Speaker 1: there's a quote I can't remember again, I think it
Speaker 1: was freud l I don't know this for sure, but
Speaker 1: who said something like you cannot analyze something about taking
Speaker 1: into account the mechanism through which it is observed. And
Speaker 1: I think it plays again into this sort of a
Speaker 1: whole notion that you might hear sometimes people say, sort
Speaker 1: of consciousness makes up the world, you know. I don't
Speaker 1: know the degree to which that might be true absolutely,
Speaker 1: but I think, you know, there is an element of truth,
Speaker 1: and that's certainly that a lot of the time when
Speaker 1: you what you're seeing in the world and the way
Speaker 1: that you respond to the world is not because of
Speaker 1: the truth of what that world is, but how you
Speaker 1: interpret that. So in that way, you kind of are
Speaker 1: making up the world. You know, for better or worse.
Speaker 1: You are kind of constructing the world in your head
Speaker 1: as much as the information from that world is being
Speaker 1: fed to you, if that makes sense. So just time
Speaker 1: for one final question, which is from Peter and Morgan,
Speaker 1: who ask both of us are still dying to know
Speaker 1: why there is such an unexplained ghostly gap between McClean
Speaker 1: Smith in the phrase Richard McClean Smith. It is a
Speaker 1: very good question. I think it just came out like that,
Speaker 1: and I've sort of felt I had to stick to
Speaker 1: it ever since. But it's now kind of taken on
Speaker 1: a life of its own where even if I try
Speaker 1: to close the gap, it feels like I'm sort of
Speaker 1: dishonoring the original version in some ways, so I've tried
Speaker 1: to keep it quite consistent. I've also joked about how
Speaker 1: I think I should get a T shirt made which
Speaker 1: just says Richard McClain on the front and then Smith
Speaker 1: on the back. I don't know if I'm quite narcissistic
Speaker 1: enough to do it. We'll see. So yeah, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening. Thank you even more for sending
Speaker 1: in your questions and for all your interests that you've
Speaker 1: shown in the show. Again, I can't thank you enough
Speaker 1: for all the support and kind words, and I hope
Speaker 1: you enjoy it going forward. As I mentioned before, I
Speaker 1: will put the list of books up on social media,
Speaker 1: so Twitter, Facebook, and I'll probably add a few more
Speaker 1: in there that I didn't think I had time to
Speaker 1: talk about this time around. Very very difficult trying to
Speaker 1: compile a small list of books. There have been so
Speaker 1: many that have inspired me, and also films and TV
Speaker 1: shows that have inspired me immensely, and music too, so
Speaker 1: maybe there are more lists to be made at a
Speaker 1: later date. Anyway. That's yeah, I think that's it for now.
Speaker 1: Once again. The book will be out on October twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: and I'm actually going to be doing some live speaking
Speaker 1: events which I'll be putting up on my website soon
Speaker 1: if anyone's interested in coming along to that. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much again for listening to the show. I will
Speaker 1: be back next Tuesday with episode eight of season three,
Speaker 1: So until then. Now it's time to take care of yourself,
Speaker 1: to make time for you. Teledoc gives you access to
Speaker 1: a licensed therapist to help you get back to feeling
Speaker 1: your best. Speak to a licensed therapist by phone or
Speaker 1: video any time between seven a m. To nine pm
Speaker 1: local time, seven days a week. Teledoc Therapy is available
Speaker 1: through most insurance or employers. Download the app, or visit
Speaker 1: teledoc dot com Forward slash Unexplained podcast today to get started.
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