Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of
Speaker 1: the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where
Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes
Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f h
Speaker 1: F Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the place as
Speaker 1: we explore. I want to pull the group here about something.
Speaker 1: Should I tell the world that I'm writing a book
Speaker 1: if it's a year to a year and a half
Speaker 1: out from being published.
Speaker 2: Yes, Gosh, I can't think of a good reason why
Speaker 2: you wouldn't been.
Speaker 3: Whatever your publishers say.
Speaker 1: Okay, publisher Bear, what do you think I would say,
Speaker 1: go for it? Might as well kind.
Speaker 4: Of gary, yeah, tell them, Yeah, I don't think.
Speaker 1: Guess why your very own Clay Knook is deep in
Speaker 1: the heart of a process for writing a book. What
Speaker 1: made me think of it was on the screen right there,
Speaker 1: was like, you know, writing, And I was actually with
Speaker 1: Giannis Putellis the other day and he he was just like, Clay,
Speaker 1: you got to tell the world because I've kind of
Speaker 1: not told the world even though it is public knowledge.
Speaker 1: Because when you get a book contract with a publisher.
Speaker 1: What the publisher does is they send out a memo
Speaker 1: to the writing world, like the underworld that like normal people.
Speaker 5: The CD underbelly of authors, Yeah, exactly, for real, Like
Speaker 5: so it wouldn't be something that just like I would
Speaker 5: be attuned to, but it's something that writers and publishers
Speaker 5: would see.
Speaker 1: And you do it to state claim on some topic. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the book, like, hey, I'm writing a cookbook.
Speaker 1: The book, you know at this time is titled American Bear,
Speaker 1: and that's known that was known a year ago, and
Speaker 1: but I haven't talked about it because in my mind
Speaker 1: it's like, am I going to start telling about the
Speaker 1: research and what I'm doing? And you, honest we tell
Speaker 1: us was like Clay, if every single podcast you talked
Speaker 1: about really what you were learning for the next year,
Speaker 1: you would not even touch the surface of what's in
Speaker 1: the book, and you would build people's excitement towards it.
Speaker 1: And so so here we go. I'm writing a book
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm very excited about it. And really the
Speaker 1: book is about the American Black Bear, and it's in
Speaker 1: it's trajectory in American history, which is an incredible that
Speaker 1: I've never really I don't think anybody's ever like put
Speaker 1: all the pieces together, and it's going back all the
Speaker 1: way to deep indigenous worldviews on bear in the in
Speaker 1: the first contact with with bears that we have documented,
Speaker 1: all the way into the market hunting of black bears,
Speaker 1: which is incredible with guys like Boone and Crockett and
Speaker 1: Gershtocker and Native Americans who were massively involved in the
Speaker 1: market hunting of black bears, coming all the way up
Speaker 1: to the modern times of the black bear thriving. Whatever
Speaker 1: is happening ecologically on planet Earth today has been beneficial
Speaker 1: to the American black bear. There are eight species of
Speaker 1: bears on planet Earth, and every one of them has
Speaker 1: some level of imperiled status in the black bear. There
Speaker 1: are more American black bears versus Americana. There are twice
Speaker 1: as many as all the bear species of planets Earth combined.
Speaker 1: So if there are you know, twenty five thousand polar
Speaker 1: bears and two hundred thousand brown bears, and and you
Speaker 1: know all the other there are eight species, one in
Speaker 1: South America, multiple in Europe. If if you combine all
Speaker 1: of them, they're twice as many black bears, and so
Speaker 1: in a time, and this is why you're going to
Speaker 1: buy the book Dad is in a time you're gonna
Speaker 1: buy You're gonna buy Christmas for Bear, Ben and Josh
Speaker 1: When in a time when all the media about planet
Speaker 1: Earth is is ecological doom, which I mean is kind
Speaker 1: of true. I mean, with the expansion of civilization and
Speaker 1: they're being you know, approaching eight billion people on planet
Speaker 1: Earth and the needs of all these people, there's there's
Speaker 1: all this like ecological doom. But something crazy has happened
Speaker 1: with the America black bear and they're springing up in
Speaker 1: places they hadn't been in one hundred and fifty years,
Speaker 1: and every researched population of bears is increasing or stable.
Speaker 1: And it's a fascinating story about America's bear, which is
Speaker 1: endemic to North America.
Speaker 2: Well, I just thought it was amazing when you said
Speaker 2: there's eight species of bears, Like of all the big
Speaker 2: game animals, of all the cats and everything, I don't
Speaker 2: know that there's any that have just that limited number
Speaker 2: of species in that category.
Speaker 1: Okay, again, I hope your honest is right about me
Speaker 1: talking about this because I could talk about it for forever.
Speaker 1: We'll quickly get to Ostiola. This episode is about Ostiola,
Speaker 1: but in the fossil record, there have been hundreds hundreds
Speaker 1: of bears that have come and gone that were gone
Speaker 1: that we would have never even encountered. I mean, like
Speaker 1: the fossil record is full of bears. And if you
Speaker 1: were looking at time in like a like like geologic
Speaker 1: time as opposed to time that really humans can comprehend
Speaker 1: and understand. Bears are like on the decline. Just just
Speaker 1: there used to be a hundred species. Now there's eight
Speaker 1: and it and and that that's not fodder for like
Speaker 1: not managing them and hunting them. It's actually more fodder
Speaker 1: for like we need, we need, we need to help
Speaker 1: them as much as we can, and for a black
Speaker 1: bear that means you know, regulated hunting in places. But anyway,
Speaker 1: it's just fascinating. So mark your calendars.
Speaker 2: For one and a half years from today.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm a year into this, I'm a
Speaker 1: year into it. But but we're really turning up the dial.
Speaker 6: So yeah, save your pennies and nickels so you can buy.
Speaker 1: Save your pennies and nickels. It's gonna be it's it's
Speaker 1: gonna be great. I'm gonna I'm gonna read the audiobook. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be good. Dad. Great to have you been
Speaker 1: a while since you've been up here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's good to be here. I mean I was.
Speaker 2: I felt like I had been fired.
Speaker 4: It felt so good. Really, I mean, you know, I'm retired,
Speaker 4: I'm free. You can't really let glove on me.
Speaker 1: A good thing about it, A good thing about the
Speaker 1: renders if you get fired, you never know. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like, don't show back up. No, man, we
Speaker 1: just we just invite hey, just.
Speaker 2: Don't worry about me. Just use me. Just call me
Speaker 2: when you need me.
Speaker 1: We need you, We need you for Osceola. This this
Speaker 1: is to me one of the most like when I
Speaker 1: rank in my mind the work done for a Beargrease
Speaker 1: documentary style podcasts, it's not so much about like which
Speaker 1: one is my favorite or which one, but but I
Speaker 1: really kind of have a mechanism for just ranking the
Speaker 1: quality of them. And it has to do with the guests,
Speaker 1: It has to do with the story, It has to
Speaker 1: do with inten things that happen inside the interviews. It
Speaker 1: has to do with a lot of times just the
Speaker 1: cultural touch points that the story touches that we kind
Speaker 1: of go into and and then it then it goes
Speaker 1: back to really how well, Like if someone listened to
Speaker 1: these three episodes and knew nothing of Ostiola, Like what
Speaker 1: would they learn? Would they really learn? Because there's sometimes
Speaker 1: with historic characters that I feel like we kind of
Speaker 1: just did like an okay job. Maybe it was entertaining
Speaker 1: and fun, but man, I felt like this one was
Speaker 1: like top shelf. And it was because of doctor Patricia Wickman.
Speaker 6: For sure.
Speaker 2: She was good, really good.
Speaker 1: Oh. I talked to her for four hours, you know,
Speaker 1: and we're going to end up here in probably two
Speaker 1: total hours of what she said, and I mean just
Speaker 1: a unbelievable I said it over and over, but it
Speaker 1: was she she has an unbelievable passion, ability to retain
Speaker 1: knowledge and just a lie a career, like a forty
Speaker 1: year span. She wrote this book right here when she
Speaker 1: was in college in the nineteen seventies. Her thesis, her thesis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like there was so much. Yeah, her dissertation was
Speaker 1: on ostiola, and so she wrote this book and it
Speaker 1: was it's like just stacked. I mean it's like reading
Speaker 1: a you know, a medical manuscript, you know, just just
Speaker 1: stacked with information. And uh. And then as if that
Speaker 1: wasn't good enough. She came back and wrote the revised edition,
Speaker 1: which she was adamant.
Speaker 2: Quite a bit thicker. Oh, it's like she's added quite
Speaker 2: a bit.
Speaker 1: It's like a lot thicker. And when I went to
Speaker 1: see her dad, she was adamant that I read this
Speaker 1: one and not this one, really because I had read
Speaker 1: this one. And she was like, oh no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: don't you come to Florida without reading.
Speaker 2: Honey.
Speaker 1: Honey almost here saying that, oh yeah, she did, and
Speaker 1: uh and and it was like two days before I
Speaker 1: was supposed to go to Florida, So I I don't
Speaker 1: tell her I read most of it. Well, you did
Speaker 1: read I.
Speaker 6: Thought it was in the interview. In the interview, you.
Speaker 7: Said I read this today, and I thought, oh man,
Speaker 7: you almost got yourself in trouble there.
Speaker 1: I was cramming. I was cramming because she she was
Speaker 1: so sweet, though I appreciated her directness at times, it's
Speaker 1: going like, no, you don't understand.
Speaker 4: You know what what made her to me so effective?
Speaker 4: And it's sort of a lesson in life. And you
Speaker 4: can't you can't create it. I mean, it's got to
Speaker 4: be natural. But her little giggle, her little I mean,
Speaker 4: it just took a pH d full of knowledge and
Speaker 4: put her kind of in the coffee shop, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, it was just beautiful really yeah.
Speaker 4: And with that, without the smiles and the giggles, you know,
Speaker 4: it would have been good, but not great like it
Speaker 4: ended up, I'd say for sure.
Speaker 7: And her reprimand I appreciated all the reprimands she gave,
Speaker 7: her smiles, giggles, and she was like.
Speaker 1: Like put your put your coffee cup on the coaster. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you know, she was. She was very serious about.
Speaker 2: I liked when she when he mentioned about about the
Speaker 2: slaves assimilating into she was like no, no, no, no
Speaker 2: no no no no no no.
Speaker 1: No no no, honey, yeah, yeah, you know, I left
Speaker 1: some of that stuff in very much on purpose. And
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't embarrass her because I was actually
Speaker 1: doing it because it was so I thought it was
Speaker 1: so cool and and it really showed who she was,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, and then just I didn't know
Speaker 1: a lot about her, and the more I talked to her,
Speaker 1: the more I saw just you know, I think I
Speaker 1: used in the podcast the term she was a real gangster,
Speaker 1: I mean, meaning she was just like legit, like she
Speaker 1: lived with the Seminoles. She you know, when I when
Speaker 1: I brought up that Osceola had been taken to a
Speaker 1: broad like a play in Charleston while he was in prison.
Speaker 2: Don't divulge too much of that. We've got some good
Speaker 2: trivia this week.
Speaker 1: Oh well, she was like, you know what he did?
Speaker 1: And I went to the New York Museum and copied
Speaker 1: the entire play, went back to Charleston, invited the Seminoles up,
Speaker 1: and we did a reading in the theater yep for them.
Speaker 1: The Flora sent carnations. I mean, it was just like
Speaker 1: it's like, wow, this this woman's been there, you know,
Speaker 1: and of I'm kind of just going on and on,
Speaker 1: but I like it when a story. I think that's
Speaker 1: what makes a good story too, is that the story.
Speaker 1: This was about Ostiola, but it was kind of fun
Speaker 1: to get a little window into doctor Wickman. So it
Speaker 1: was exciting.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that was the first introduction. Bear new comes here.
Speaker 1: Good to see a bear. Nice shoes, thank you. I
Speaker 1: mean I don't they don't. I don't really approve of them,
Speaker 1: like uh well, I mean you follow, they look really
Speaker 1: up in front, they look really good, really stylish. But
Speaker 1: as you know, I think a grown man ought to
Speaker 1: be wearing leather, leather boots of some kind of like
Speaker 1: eighty percent of his life. I'm sorry, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not right, but it's not wrong, and my dad would
Speaker 1: have disagreed with me. Dad always thought I was kind
Speaker 1: of a dressed like a hillbilly. Some of us are
Speaker 1: trying to look nice.
Speaker 2: But putting in some effort.
Speaker 1: No, you look great, but I just don't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to make you feel too great.
Speaker 7: It does break the cardinal rule that we've had in
Speaker 7: our family that no one is allowed to have white
Speaker 7: things here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good luck with that, buddy.
Speaker 6: Well on our dirt road. But they look good.
Speaker 3: You're becoming his own man is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, needs a haircut? Yeah, just no. I'm proud of you, bear,
Speaker 1: Ben Lagron, Good to have you back. Ben's been on
Speaker 1: here many times, former history teacher, doing all kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm interested to hear your take on Ostiola. Did you
Speaker 1: know much about Ostiola?
Speaker 3: Well that it has to do with being a history teacher.
Speaker 3: When you're a history teacher, you got to know a
Speaker 3: little bit of a lot of things. And that's why
Speaker 3: I enjoyed listening to her. Because you always get a
Speaker 3: deeper appreciation that every story has so many layers of complexity.
Speaker 3: And I enjoyed listen to her.
Speaker 1: Yeah cool. Also, so what what yeah you got?
Speaker 3: I just want to point out before we get to serious,
Speaker 3: I am a sneakers man, beer skinny guy's gotta stick
Speaker 3: together and be you know, Clay always says, you.
Speaker 2: Just got you just got moved all the category heavyweight people.
Speaker 3: I'll be honest. I can't wear big heavy boots all
Speaker 3: day like I'm so.
Speaker 1: Small, You're not strong enough.
Speaker 3: I'm not strong enough. But here's what Here's what I
Speaker 3: do have is that I can always run really fast
Speaker 3: in these shoes. Well, and I am a.
Speaker 1: Fast until I take my boots off, and then I'm like,
Speaker 1: who It's true because you know it's like where it
Speaker 1: weighted ankle weights, you know, and then when you take
Speaker 1: them off you can run like.
Speaker 2: That, right, that's right.
Speaker 3: The conditioning good point.
Speaker 1: Well, no, that's maybe. And grease color I've noticed that.
Speaker 1: Just pick that too. Yeah, yeah, Josh, good to see you. Thanks,
Speaker 1: doctor mister Nukem. Great to see you, very good to
Speaker 1: see you. Today is Misty's anniversary. How many years? Twenty
Speaker 1: four years twenty four years. Were married in the year
Speaker 1: of two thousand. How would you say that in a
Speaker 1: more uh, the year of our two thousand, like two
Speaker 1: dominate twenty odd or something. You know, No, mistery and
Speaker 1: I have been. We got married in the kind of the.
Speaker 2: The post prime of your life.
Speaker 1: The prime of our lives, but the latter end of
Speaker 1: the white tail rut. I remember I told Jeff Cunningham,
Speaker 1: who was my one of my best friend's dads at
Speaker 1: the time. I told him that I was getting married
Speaker 1: on November eighteenth, and he was like, you're going to
Speaker 1: regret that. He's like, He's like, I'm going to have
Speaker 1: to come in from deer camp to come to your wedding, Jeff,
Speaker 1: and he did.
Speaker 7: And you have regretted. No, you've not regretted getting married,
Speaker 7: but that the timing. We never celebrate our anniversary on
Speaker 7: the day or anywhere near it. We actually up six
Speaker 7: months earlier or six months later, depend on how.
Speaker 2: Well, Hey, you know what it goes without and redo
Speaker 2: it like in Midsummer.
Speaker 1: Josh, you just that just as a slap in the
Speaker 1: face to what I was just about to say. That
Speaker 1: very serious, never mind, Gary Newcomb taught me from the
Speaker 1: time was what two? I mean, like, before I could
Speaker 1: say dad die, he said, don't ever say the word
Speaker 1: divorce in this house, did you not?
Speaker 2: I sure did?
Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus, we don't use that word. We don't
Speaker 1: even say it.
Speaker 2: Josh, Sorry, I said it. I take it all back.
Speaker 1: No, No, I was going to say, we I really do.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a big deal to be married
Speaker 1: to somebody committed for decades. It's a big deal. So
Speaker 1: something we on for sure. Absolutely, Yep, it's great.
Speaker 7: Speaking of did you all get the same ads that
Speaker 7: I got in the Bear Grease in this in this
Speaker 7: podcast where Clay said what he was thankful for?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I actually didn't know where it was going because he
Speaker 7: started off saying, this is basically an ad for better help,
Speaker 7: and then he said I'm thankful for Misty.
Speaker 6: I was like, shot.
Speaker 3: Or she or she calls me to have therapy.
Speaker 6: I think that's where I was going.
Speaker 2: I'm thankful for a misty, But I have to talk
Speaker 2: about it a lot. Can we talk?
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the c D underbelly of podcast ads? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they they send you these these ads that you read,
Speaker 1: but then they say that they'll tell you things to
Speaker 1: like talk about. Like they'll say, tell someone that, and
Speaker 1: sometimes the connection is not always there. For me, it's
Speaker 1: like a cold open like tell about someone in your life,
Speaker 1: a relationship in your life that you're thankful for. And
Speaker 1: so it's like, okay, so I talked about mysty and
Speaker 1: then it's like, if you want someone in your life
Speaker 1: to help you, you know, call betterhelp dot com.
Speaker 6: Yeah, then you said I'm thankful for myself.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they they that was that was part part
Speaker 1: of their deal. Like this month was that this idea
Speaker 1: that you know, like it's okay to.
Speaker 2: Like it's it's like the month of self gratitude, right,
Speaker 2: gratitude and self care or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not I'm not into that word self care.
Speaker 1: It's a little a little little self aggrandizing, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like a little selfie selfie. Yeah, it's it's just kind
Speaker 1: of like trendy in the age to be like you
Speaker 1: got to take care of yourself. I mean you do,
Speaker 1: but we don't have to talk about it.
Speaker 2: But thanks Better Help for advertising.
Speaker 1: Actually, I think it's a great service. I mean I
Speaker 1: really do.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: My brothers are both therapists or in the therapist adjacent world,
Speaker 1: and uh, I think it's actually I think I think
Speaker 1: it's actually a really good service that you could call
Speaker 1: somebody and have a kind of an unbiased opinion. So
Speaker 1: use clay at your cheery.
Speaker 7: Yeah they did not that that was unscripted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: I got a funny story. You see this moose antler
Speaker 1: right here, there's a moose antler behind me. So I
Speaker 1: hunted the last couple of years with Steve Vanella and
Speaker 1: Alaska for moose at really the day that we're recording this,
Speaker 1: so when it comes out, it'll be out. There's the
Speaker 1: video on the med Eat YouTube channel of the rough
Speaker 1: cuts called Steve Vanilla rough Cuts of us moose hunting
Speaker 1: in Alaska two years ago and when the when the
Speaker 1: plane flew over to come get us, or when he left,
Speaker 1: the pilot saw a moose paddle and he would later
Speaker 1: try to describe to us when he came back kind
Speaker 1: of where it was. He was like, it's like out there,
Speaker 1: but it was like a quarter mile from the camp,
Speaker 1: and we went looking for it, couldn't find it. Long
Speaker 1: story short, when Steve went back to Alaska this year
Speaker 1: without me, they found the moose handler that was by
Speaker 1: camp and he sent it to me, which I thought
Speaker 1: was really cool. Yeah, he shipped it in like a
Speaker 1: giant box and sent me that moose.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: Okay, they had killed a moose and Brody Henderson had
Speaker 1: killed a moose, and so that antler had a big
Speaker 1: splotch of blood on it, and they didn't clean it
Speaker 1: when they sent it. They just put it in a
Speaker 1: box and sent it. When it came to my house,
Speaker 1: we took it out of the box and put it
Speaker 1: on the fireplace. This is a complicated story, Okay, just
Speaker 1: hang with me. He's worth it.
Speaker 6: I think it's easier than you think. I think we're
Speaker 6: all trying.
Speaker 1: The moose is on our wood stove. Above the wood
Speaker 1: stove is the moose that I killed the year before,
Speaker 1: which is giant hanging on the wall as a euro mount.
Speaker 1: Many times in our family we've talked about what if
Speaker 1: that moose fell off the wall, And if you were
Speaker 1: sitting underneath that moose and it fell like seven feet
Speaker 1: and came down on you, it would likely kill you.
Speaker 1: It could kill you, You could hurt you. My daughter River
Speaker 1: Nukem walks into our house.
Speaker 6: That she walks out of her bedroom which is upstairs.
Speaker 1: She okay, she walks out of her bedroom and looks
Speaker 1: down into our living.
Speaker 7: Room, and Clay and I are usually sitting in the
Speaker 7: living room every morning when she wakes up to go
Speaker 7: to work, we're having coffee. So that's what she was
Speaker 7: expecting to see, was us sitting there.
Speaker 1: And she sees a moose antler laying underneath the big
Speaker 1: moose with blood on it. She said that for like
Speaker 1: a very few real seconds, she was certain that one
Speaker 1: of those antlers had fallen off and killed someone in
Speaker 1: their house. Perfect since there was this huge blood. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: why would there be blood on this big moose antler.
Speaker 1: We don't have two moose, you know. Anyway, so River
Speaker 1: had a little traumatic moment and then she was like
Speaker 1: looked at the moose on the wall and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's still there, and there's that one. Anyway. It was funny.
Speaker 4: That is beautiful. That looks like a piece of canvas.
Speaker 4: If you could ever yeah yeah, oh yeah, they'd finds.
Speaker 2: Something to put on it. Man, that would really be something.
Speaker 2: It's something you could paint you something on there.
Speaker 1: Man. I think a moose andler is like one of
Speaker 1: the most spectacular I mean it's one of the most
Speaker 1: spectacular antlers. But they're just fascinated. Yeah, it's just so big,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: This little guy. I mean, he's beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Man, we got I just got so many stories to tell.
Speaker 1: I got to tell one just real quick about River.
Speaker 1: This is kind of a monologue today. I've been in
Speaker 1: the deer stand a lot. Thank you, Thank you for
Speaker 1: coming to many people. Thank you for coming. So Bear,
Speaker 1: we don't have to go into all the details just yet.
Speaker 1: But Bear had his annual deer camp, right okay, and
Speaker 1: this this story's gonna quickly get back to River.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had like.
Speaker 1: Twenty people at Bear's deer camp. There were thirty total
Speaker 1: that like came, Are you serious? Thirty? They were almost
Speaker 1: always twenty at once. Like people would come and go
Speaker 1: from all over the country, from all over other countries. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had like three countries represented there. Yeah. And and
Speaker 1: most of these guys are new hunters. Some of them
Speaker 1: were veteran hunters. Yep. Most shepherd showed up. Yep. I
Speaker 1: was there for a short time. You'll cook some cook
Speaker 1: some meat for y'all.
Speaker 7: The young guys come, a lot of the younger Yeah,
Speaker 7: young men around here like eleven, twelve, thirteen years old
Speaker 7: come with their parents.
Speaker 6: It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: So you're going to be surprised at what part of
Speaker 1: the story that I'm interested in. Okay, they deer hunt
Speaker 1: and don't kill any deer, but they kill a bear.
Speaker 1: Are from Levi Mashburn shoots a bear. It's really we've
Speaker 1: killing machine this year. He's had a great season. We
Speaker 1: should have had him on the podcast.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's made a lot of work in I mean,
Speaker 6: the last couple of years he has.
Speaker 1: He's hunted hard in the last two years. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: has it had made any killed a bear and and
Speaker 1: you might think that's what I would be interested in,
Speaker 1: but it's it's actually not sorry what uh No, Levi knows.
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of him, very proud of him. He
Speaker 1: did a just a phenomenal job. River Nukeom went to
Speaker 1: bring food. Her and her friends took dinner for all
Speaker 1: the deer hunters. It actually went out in the mountains
Speaker 1: and when they got there, Levi had killed a bear
Speaker 1: and they were all gonna go way back and it
Speaker 1: was a it was a long hike. It was a
Speaker 1: tough pack up. I mean, it wasn't like a they're
Speaker 1: in the big mountains man, And they went back there.
Speaker 6: And River wasn't planning to stay, plan to drop.
Speaker 1: Yeah. River just like had just normal clothes on and
Speaker 1: had crocs. I think she had ugsu Yeah, ugs like
Speaker 1: slip on ugs.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Dad, they're going on this like significant hike. It
Speaker 1: was point six, six miles from the road, but steep,
Speaker 1: like really steep six miles in point yeah, point zero
Speaker 1: points the people out west. That doesn't sound impressive, no,
Speaker 1: but it was a it was a forty five minute
Speaker 1: hike in there probably, Yeah, just real steep. River takes
Speaker 1: off her shoes and walks in their barefoot in the
Speaker 1: wood like a sasquatch. And the worst part about it
Speaker 1: was it wasn't only steep, but it was thick. I
Speaker 1: mean there was just brush and thorn. River. Since River
Speaker 1: didn't wear she's she didn't wear shoes until she was
Speaker 1: like nine, when we made her.
Speaker 7: Well, when she would go to school, I would walk
Speaker 7: in and I would just see River shoes in the
Speaker 7: hallway at school and I would be like, why why
Speaker 7: doesn't River have shoes on? And teachers would say, we've
Speaker 7: been telling her to get them on. She just takes
Speaker 7: them off in every.
Speaker 6: Class and she could never find her shoes at school.
Speaker 1: People people and indigenous people and people across the world
Speaker 1: that don't wear shoes. Shoes tighten your feet up and
Speaker 1: make your toes stick together like this like all normal
Speaker 1: people's feet. But if you don't wear shoes, your toes
Speaker 1: spread out like you could, you know, like poke the
Speaker 1: ground in between your toes. River has toes, like really, they've.
Speaker 7: Come together in her older age, you know, when she
Speaker 7: has jobs.
Speaker 1: And the other day, like in the last year, we
Speaker 1: were joking about when she was a little girl, she
Speaker 1: didn't wear shoes, and I said, could you still run
Speaker 1: across the gravel? I mean if I go out on
Speaker 1: the gravel? Yeah, and she was she was like oh yeah.
Speaker 1: She was like, oh yeah, I could. I could do it.
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you couldn't show me. She
Speaker 1: takes her shoes off and just sprints down the driveways,
Speaker 1: a full sprint. So anyway, congratulations.
Speaker 2: She kind of looks like a Native American too. You
Speaker 2: ever noticed that she's got that dark tire.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, everybody in Arkansas believes that they're part
Speaker 7: Native American.
Speaker 6: I don't know if that's a thing everywhere.
Speaker 1: One day We're going to do a Barger's podcast on it,
Speaker 1: because there's there's actually a legitimate cultural thing about and
Speaker 1: I don't quite have my fingers on it, but everybody.
Speaker 1: You can hardly talk to a person down here that
Speaker 1: doesn't claim to have Native American heritage, and I think
Speaker 1: most of the time it's not true. I mean there's
Speaker 1: stories in our family of it. I mean, my whole
Speaker 1: life grew up here in that juju that my well,
Speaker 1: my grandmother NANAE Milsap grew up in Oklahoma, which is
Speaker 1: you know, Indian Territory. Yeah, and that her grandmother was
Speaker 1: full blood Turkey, do you I mean that's.
Speaker 2: What I grew up here and yeah.
Speaker 1: And but now they have like as I've gone back
Speaker 1: to try to like, okay, let's is that really true,
Speaker 1: It's like nobody can really prove it. I talked to
Speaker 1: people NonStop that last week. I talked to a guy
Speaker 1: and he was like, yep, my great great grandmother was
Speaker 1: this or that, and it's like three in me. We
Speaker 1: checked can tell me that that doesn't that doesn't work.
Speaker 6: Guess who's not putting their blood in that sample to
Speaker 6: be compared to.
Speaker 8: Oh you see what I'm saying, and you need this,
Speaker 8: you need the sample because I mean, just like we
Speaker 8: see with Osiola and we learned from Sterling hard Joe,
Speaker 8: it's not exactly like the the.
Speaker 1: The Native American people in this country have a lot
Speaker 1: of reason to trust the system.
Speaker 2: Yeah, understandably, so I.
Speaker 1: Mean for real. Yeah, you know, No, that's a big topic.
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to fully discuss it. But interesting. Interesting.
Speaker 1: So sorry LEVI that your story was second only to
Speaker 1: River going in Barefoot.
Speaker 3: I wish River was here in that whole tennis shoe
Speaker 3: boot debate because she would have brought a whole another one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I think we should probably
Speaker 1: start with trivia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree we're going to have trivia. I didn't.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I wish I would have studied the teachers
Speaker 2: about to get schooled. Look what we got here.
Speaker 6: Oh, we've got.
Speaker 1: I will play, but I won't count. Sound like I
Speaker 1: think we'll see if you can stump me.
Speaker 2: Okay, there we go. Dad.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you academically listened to this podcast?
Speaker 2: I mean, I know just about everything.
Speaker 1: You know. I do appreciate that about you. When you listen,
Speaker 1: I can really tell you listen.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not too sure how much I retained.
Speaker 1: Okay, what about you? How do you feel like you're
Speaker 1: going to do? I would say decent because I listened
Speaker 1: to this in the ox cord of my truck just disappeared,
Speaker 1: so I had to listen to it, you know, on
Speaker 1: my phone while driving. So probably all right, gosh, take
Speaker 1: us up, take us away?
Speaker 2: Ready for this?
Speaker 1: How many questions do we have?
Speaker 2: We have eight in a bone or nine on a bonus?
Speaker 2: I think? Okay, okay, and keep your score on the
Speaker 2: bottom of ere of your board.
Speaker 1: So how it give us the rule? How we doing it?
Speaker 2: So everybody, I'm going to give you a question. Oh,
Speaker 2: we just write it down and you write down the answer,
Speaker 2: just like meat eater trivia, right if you get If
Speaker 2: you get a point, mark it down at the bottom
Speaker 2: of your board. Okay, okay, my old man glasses here
Speaker 2: so I can see what I'm doing. Okay. Question number one,
Speaker 2: what is the name of the stockade or osceola? Was
Speaker 2: originally held? Wow? I thought we'd have a B C
Speaker 2: or no multiple choice? Scary? Mmm, this is not the act, anybody. Remember,
Speaker 2: it's not fun.
Speaker 6: It's the question so hard. No one can.
Speaker 2: It was said at.
Speaker 1: Least three times. Yeah, I know you're right, because they
Speaker 1: they took him. This is not giving anybody hint because
Speaker 1: I actually I don't remember, but they when they captured
Speaker 1: him under a flag of truce, they took him to
Speaker 1: a town near Saint.
Speaker 2: I will tell you it starts with Fort Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was there for a while, and that's
Speaker 1: where the Indians escaped yep, potentially by gotcha kill it?
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, all right, does anybody have an answer?
Speaker 6: I have an answer?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, let's see your answers. Clay, what do
Speaker 2: you got Fort Payne? Fort Payne? He has Fort Charles Theater,
Speaker 2: Charleston Theater Group, Ben Blank Bear, Fort Myers. That's a
Speaker 2: good guest, Bear, Gary, you got a guess? Clay is
Speaker 2: the closest. It's actually Fort Peyton, Fort Peyton Books. Okay,
Speaker 2: So no right answers on that one. Okay. Question number
Speaker 2: two and and this one was mentioned several times too,
Speaker 2: and I think everybody should should pick up on this one.
Speaker 2: What was the name of the post surgeon and local
Speaker 2: doctor that befriended Osciola and later took his head post mortem?
Speaker 2: That will be going to take someone's head. It's always
Speaker 2: going to be post mortem, right.
Speaker 3: I've literally been thinking about the story all morning that
Speaker 3: I can't recall his name. Oh wait, a Shamus at
Speaker 3: the beginning, Josh, you're all going to get this.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: I didn't want us to have this big discussion and
Speaker 2: answer all the questions in the discussion. Okay, everybody got
Speaker 2: to answer, all right, Clay, doctor Frederick, Whedon, Misty, doctor Kiljoy,
Speaker 2: what do you got nothing? Bear Weeley, that's Wheden. I
Speaker 2: should have had Gary show up before I said it,
Speaker 2: because did you remember that?
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm really I love you all. Everyone's here because
Speaker 1: I love you. I'm really disappointed a former.
Speaker 2: Hold on, there's there's a bonus question to this one.
Speaker 2: What was his wife's name? Oh, that's a bonus, just
Speaker 2: a bonus question.
Speaker 1: Bonus.
Speaker 2: There's there's no, there's no. He won't be disappointed with
Speaker 2: you if you know, if you.
Speaker 1: Don't want Yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 2: All right, let's see your answers. Misty, Joe, Lene, let
Speaker 2: me just say Judith. Okay, Judith, question mark Edith not Patricia.
Speaker 3: Her name was Mary classic.
Speaker 1: So there was some there was so much that you
Speaker 1: just couldn't tell the story. But Mary Whedon was ken
Speaker 1: to the guy that Osceola assassinated. Oh really, the Wiley
Speaker 1: Wiley Thompson. Mary Whedon was ken to Wiley Thompson. And
Speaker 1: there was a conspiracy theory that the reason Whedon cut
Speaker 1: his head off was retribution to Mary's family. I think
Speaker 1: it's totally unfounded. Me and doctor Wickman disgusted.
Speaker 2: Okay, next question. According to the story told by the Seminoles,
Speaker 2: the imprisoned Indians made medicine that turned them into what
Speaker 2: so they could escape through the prison of walls.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm refusing to answer this question, but.
Speaker 2: It got an answer. Misty answer one.
Speaker 3: Doing a lot of yard work, a lot of hard yards.
Speaker 2: Okay, the correct answer is The.
Speaker 1: Correct answer is not ants? What what they didn't turn into? Answer?
Speaker 6: It was water that came up, You didn't they saw?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the reason that I refuse to answer, because
Speaker 1: they didn't turn into anything. They didn't turn into they became.
Speaker 6: Described it though. I actually had to listen to it twice.
Speaker 2: Okay, I listened to the podcast twice and I didn't
Speaker 2: catch it.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, if you, if you really listen, they didn't
Speaker 1: turn into ants. They became as small as ants. Oh
Speaker 1: that's that makes sense, like honey, the kids, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: got it.
Speaker 6: I wonder if there's some copyright infringement there.
Speaker 2: Maybe Okay, well that one doesn't count apparently, all right.
Speaker 1: Can we can? Can we use this as a springboard
Speaker 1: to talk about a few things that I don't think
Speaker 1: will be a question. I actually really I said it.
Speaker 1: I think I hope it came across that, like I
Speaker 1: really like these stories of like supernatural activity. What did
Speaker 1: you think about my commentary about supernatural stuff? You remember,
Speaker 1: I said basically that a lot of times you hear
Speaker 1: these stories and you're just like, ah, that's like just
Speaker 1: completely discounted folklore. And the reason I brought up the
Speaker 1: biblical prison break is because sometimes I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: like in the cultural lexicon of a lot of people
Speaker 1: who would consider themselves Christians, like if you hear this
Speaker 1: story about someone turning into the size of an ant,
Speaker 1: you're kind of just like chuckle. But I mean, like
Speaker 1: in the in our stories, we got some wild stories too, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, And so anyway, I'm not saying that I
Speaker 1: believe that that happened, but basically supernatural being things that
Speaker 1: would break the laws of physics that we know to
Speaker 1: be true. And but the way that it is, the
Speaker 1: way that you know it's it's it's seen as the
Speaker 1: spirit world would work, is that you're you're belief in
Speaker 1: it would be the catalyst to like seeing it, you know.
Speaker 1: And and and basically the idea that the way that
Speaker 1: you think right now, bear bear shoes those no. No,
Speaker 1: the way that we think is not the way that
Speaker 1: most people that ever lived on planet Earth thought. I mean,
Speaker 1: like we are a product of a long time, like
Speaker 1: the Enlightenment and all this science and all this stuff,
Speaker 1: which is true. Like I'm not saying that science isn't true,
Speaker 1: but I wish I could have kept it on there.
Speaker 1: But Patricia Wickman was actually at one point she was
Speaker 1: talking about she was talking about Indian medicine like, which
Speaker 1: was just like they're essentially their access to the spirit realm,
Speaker 1: which again I'm not saying I might, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: anything about that, but she said, as smart as she is,
Speaker 1: she said, for me to think that I understand all
Speaker 1: the mechanisms of how this universe operates, right is absurd.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I said, Buck.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think there's a lot of wisdom
Speaker 3: in that statement you just said, and I find it
Speaker 3: interesting right now, like you could go watch a million
Speaker 3: documentaries on paranormal activity, UFOs and all this stuff that
Speaker 3: it's you, your skeptical brain, your Western educated skeptic brain,
Speaker 3: wants to just like poke holes in the whole thing.
Speaker 3: But when you think about just like the accumulating mass
Speaker 3: of eyewitness accounts or some of these documentaries prove you
Speaker 3: at least walk away, You're like, you know what, I
Speaker 3: don't really know what happened, So it would be very
Speaker 3: arrogant of me to say, oh, they're all just crazy
Speaker 3: and it's all of this massive conspiracy. And so that's
Speaker 3: that's my feedback on your statement there in the podcast
Speaker 3: of like, like you pointed out, who are we to
Speaker 3: say over here this is false? And I know that
Speaker 3: for sure in this over here that validates my beliefs.
Speaker 3: It's true. What is easy to me to assess me
Speaker 3: look at the big picture of human history is that
Speaker 3: there's obviously some way more complex things going on than
Speaker 3: we can that we can assess by our own personal experience.
Speaker 3: Because that's where humans get so messed up as they think, well,
Speaker 3: I've never seen that. Yeah, it's not true. It's like, Wow,
Speaker 3: you've been on this planet for this much and you
Speaker 3: can make an assessment on all of the entire universe.
Speaker 3: That's pretty bold.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I liked what you said about how like a lot
Speaker 1: of times the super like if we would have had
Speaker 1: like you know, people would have had no understanding of
Speaker 1: like science in the laws of physics, Like whenever they'd
Speaker 1: like pray for a rainstorm and a rainstorm would come,
Speaker 1: like there was still science behind that. Like there it
Speaker 1: was like I forgot exactly how you word it, but
Speaker 1: like a lot of times like the natural functions of
Speaker 1: the Earth can be you know, like are the supernatural
Speaker 1: can play out even in the midst of.
Speaker 6: In the context of the natural laws of physical.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, because and kind of the point of that,
Speaker 1: well finish your thought there, well yeah, And I mean
Speaker 1: it's like even like a lot of the like stories
Speaker 1: in the Bible, like sometimes they'll like uncover things like
Speaker 1: the one example I could think of was like in
Speaker 1: Sodom and Gomora, you know, like they uncovered like that
Speaker 1: city that had like the high sulfur content they think
Speaker 1: like meteorites, yeah or something, and it was like, if
Speaker 1: you'd have had no understanding of what a meteorite was,
Speaker 1: you would have said, yeah, balls of fire are flying
Speaker 1: from the sky destroying the city. But it's like there
Speaker 1: was actually like a natural thing behind it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think that I think it's a real discount to
Speaker 7: humanity to not believe in the supernatural. And I think
Speaker 7: that that's probably why some of the imbalances that we're
Speaker 7: seeing on on planet Earth exist, because we actually are
Speaker 7: we are supernatural beings, and we should have sight for
Speaker 7: those things, and and we're kind of denying this thing
Speaker 7: that makes us fundamentally different.
Speaker 1: And I think you can say that and also be
Speaker 1: like a massive believer and proponent of science. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: both of those things can fit into the same the
Speaker 1: same vat. And what I was saying about that belief
Speaker 1: in and when I say supernatural, I'm not even talking
Speaker 1: about like turning yourself into the size of an ant
Speaker 1: something that dramatic like that's but but you live a
Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy. And so the question is what is reality?
Speaker 1: So if I walk around and believe that the that
Speaker 1: there is a spirit realm, that's as real as the
Speaker 1: natural realm, and through my faith in God, I have
Speaker 1: access to that at some level, like at some level
Speaker 1: for my life, which you know, I could give examples
Speaker 1: of things that have happened to me that that that
Speaker 1: bias that I have to believe that because for whatever
Speaker 1: reason makes it actually real to me. And if you don't, like,
Speaker 1: if if you're cut off to that, then then you
Speaker 1: have full right to be like, No, supernatural is not real.
Speaker 1: I mean because it's not to you, right, I mean
Speaker 1: it's like and you won't see it, and you won't
Speaker 1: see it. Yeah, You're going to go through your whole
Speaker 1: life and never see it. I mean that's the that's
Speaker 1: the triggering power of faith that we see about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is, I mean like the I and that's where
Speaker 1: the the spirit realm is accessed differently than the natural realm.
Speaker 1: And anyway, I think that's massively interesting and massively relevant.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like in our our society today,
Speaker 1: we're enamored with the things we can touch, touch, taste, see, smell,
Speaker 1: rationally think and man, when I look back and of
Speaker 1: all the research I've done in bear Grease and interviewing
Speaker 1: all these people, I'm kind of looking back into history,
Speaker 1: Like I realize what has been lost inside of modern
Speaker 1: society with all the knowledge that we have that's wonderful,
Speaker 1: like that, we've lost part of our humanity. And I'm
Speaker 1: not talking about uki guki spiritual stuff like I I
Speaker 1: don't know, I think I'm I think we're pretty normal people.
Speaker 1: And and actually to be normal is to have an
Speaker 1: understanding of the you know, some grapple of the of
Speaker 1: the of the spirit realm, you know.
Speaker 2: And so well, one.
Speaker 4: Let me use the word truism that you see in
Speaker 4: all societies, all people, they all seek a superior being everybody.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't care you go to remote places
Speaker 4: years ago that they had never even seen anybody. I
Speaker 4: mean they're doing they're doing something. You know, they're looking
Speaker 4: at the sun. You know, they're so it's in it's
Speaker 4: pretty much in eight within.
Speaker 2: Us to seek this out.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I believe it or not, it's too consistent.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the seminos, I mean they're you know, they're seeking
Speaker 4: out absolutely a spiritual life.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I always say, just to wrap that thought, I've always
Speaker 3: say science anders the house. Spirituality answers the why they
Speaker 3: don't have to be inseparable and so if you deny
Speaker 3: one of those, you basically have to say that there
Speaker 3: is no why, and that's a pretty sad place to live. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you only have the how, and that's not really
Speaker 3: a basis for building your life in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. Now I love when little tangents kind of
Speaker 1: take you down a road you wouldn't think about. So yeah,
Speaker 1: good question, Joshy. Except for how they didn't turn into ants.
Speaker 6: Clearly, God, I'm still giving myself one point for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go hide that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, still exactly get a point for ants?
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, Yeah, can we get a point?
Speaker 2: He was question question number four, Question question number four.
Speaker 2: On January first, eighteen thirty eight, the imprisoned. The imprisoned
Speaker 2: seminoles were moved from Saint Augustine, Florida, to Charleston, South Carolina,
Speaker 2: to more sanitary conditions under the supervision of Captain Pitt
Speaker 2: Cairn Morrison. How many seminoles were there? And this was
Speaker 2: mentioned at least twice, So I'll give you a hint.
Speaker 2: It's more than fifty and less than four hundred.
Speaker 1: In rhymes with foo hundred and forty eight forty.
Speaker 2: Okay, does everybody have an answer, Hey, Spencer movie, it
Speaker 2: gives you like two minutes, I give you like fifteen.
Speaker 1: And I'll give you a bonus point if you can
Speaker 1: name the name of the ship that they were on. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't want our tribute to become just like factual trivia.
Speaker 1: I would like may wow, Shanna Maria, Yeah, to have like, uh,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe throwing a few more questions that were more
Speaker 1: like essays conceptual questions.
Speaker 6: Yea.
Speaker 3: For as a history, you look for the concepts.
Speaker 1: Okay, go ahead. Really a good job, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 6: So my answer based off of Clay's hit two hundred.
Speaker 3: Okay, man, how do you have time to draw the pictures?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I did, Honestly, I knew it was two hundred something.
Speaker 2: I did know that, Okay, Okay, Oh good eight and
Speaker 2: Clay with the correct answer too, hundred and thirty seven.
Speaker 2: That's half a point.
Speaker 1: That's point because there was actually a little math in there,
Speaker 1: because she said all two hundred and thirty seven seminoles
Speaker 1: and then the next one I referenced and I said
Speaker 1: osceola and the other two hundred and thirty six. So yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Great tricks of the podcast in Trade.
Speaker 2: Okay, this one it because it was it was discussed
Speaker 2: what was the name of the play that the prisoners
Speaker 2: were taking to see at the dock Street Theater and Charleston.
Speaker 1: I feel like you're setting us up for failure when
Speaker 1: you say this one.
Speaker 2: Everyone little known fact. Christy and I went on our
Speaker 2: twenty fifth anniversary last year. We went to Charleston and
Speaker 2: we almost went to go see a play at the
Speaker 2: dock Street Theater.
Speaker 1: No way, Yeah, did you really?
Speaker 2: Yep? Wow?
Speaker 1: And y'all have been married a year longer than us two.
Speaker 2: We just celebrated our twenty sixth anniversary. Oh wow, yeah, great.
Speaker 1: How long you been married? Dad?
Speaker 2: I don't remember.
Speaker 4: It's more than fifty Yeah, because we were married.
Speaker 1: Okay, everybody got it from the type.
Speaker 2: Reva Hamilton, Hamilton.
Speaker 1: Okay, those are blanks because I didn't remember Gary nothing.
Speaker 2: It was called the Honeymoon.
Speaker 1: I knew it had something to do with a celestial bean. Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: This is a This is a a name one of
Speaker 2: the artists that painted Ossiola's portraits just before his death.
Speaker 2: There were two of them that he mentioned.
Speaker 1: And there were actually a lot more.
Speaker 2: Well, this is the this happened three days before his death.
Speaker 2: We need to start.
Speaker 1: Hey, this is the name that do you remember this name?
Speaker 2: Ben?
Speaker 3: I did it rung about with one of the two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this guy was really famous, guy Boone?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, well.
Speaker 6: Ture sounded like that in the podcast.
Speaker 1: One of them, you guys. No, I did equate this
Speaker 1: man painting Ostiola to the young portrait painter. Is the
Speaker 1: name has escaped me, But it wasn't. George Catlin painted Boone.
Speaker 2: Well, Clay just gave one of the answers Kyle Carroll.
Speaker 1: Carrol who made this. Kyle is a modern artist in
Speaker 1: game War.
Speaker 2: He was our guest on our last frinder.
Speaker 1: Oh that's just right in his end, I can't spells.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we're on a roll here, folks, Okay, I
Speaker 2: do have to talk about this.
Speaker 1: I really you kind of get the sense when you
Speaker 1: these painters. I mean, this was before photography, Like the
Speaker 1: only way that the American public would know what someone
Speaker 1: looked like if someone painted him. I mean, how cool
Speaker 1: would that be? How cool would the pace of life?
Speaker 1: It was just interesting?
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then these guys would also, right, I mean they
Speaker 1: would sit for hours, days, you know, the Boone. The
Speaker 1: Boone portrait painter went to Boone's house and I'll never
Speaker 1: I'll never forget this, Like I almost cried when I
Speaker 1: read it on the podcast when I you know, on
Speaker 1: back in those episodes, just because I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: just like a touching human moment. Daniel Boone, this American
Speaker 1: archetype of identity frontiersman. He was so unknown when he died.
Speaker 1: He was aged eighty four and had been and was
Speaker 1: in Missouri and didn't even know his neighbor. This guy
Speaker 1: traveled down from one hundred miles via horse, gets within
Speaker 1: him like a mile of Boone's house, and he stops
Speaker 1: and asks a man, hey, do you know Daniel Boone?
Speaker 1: And the guy goes no. And the man's wife overhears
Speaker 1: the conversation with a stranger and she goes, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the old man that lives down by the river, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: And he goes, oh, yeah, that old white haired guy.
Speaker 1: And then he goes down there and finds Boone roasting
Speaker 1: venison on a ramrod over a fire in his house.
Speaker 1: Eighty four year old man Daniel Boone, you know, captured
Speaker 1: by the Shawnees. They called him a big turtle, never
Speaker 1: had a Shawnee wife, loved one woman his whole life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, and then and then Boone dies and and
Speaker 1: and that's the only actual portrait of Boone that we have.
Speaker 1: And then Osceola dies just days after they paint his portrait.
Speaker 1: And these were the first portraits that ever came out
Speaker 1: about Ostiola because he was running from the law. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was like Osama bin Laden in a way. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, just in the American consciousness, it would have
Speaker 1: been like essentially like a terrorist, but people wanted to
Speaker 1: know what he looked like people. I think that's fast.
Speaker 3: I appreciated you saying that because we're in our world
Speaker 3: of just photos everywhere. Now we got ai can make images.
Speaker 3: It's like we don't really appreciate how valuable that stuff is.
Speaker 3: That's why Dolly Madison, you know, ran into the White
Speaker 3: House to grab George Washington portrait when the British attack
Speaker 3: and the word of eighteen twelve.
Speaker 1: It's a good history.
Speaker 3: It's like, this is we got to save this thing,
Speaker 3: and yeah, we don't. And it was hard at trying
Speaker 3: to get students to appreciate old art because it was
Speaker 3: like he cares about this old guy. It's like no man.
Speaker 3: That was very significant.
Speaker 1: And then they would always ride about him. That was
Speaker 1: the point. This is more of a monologue today. They
Speaker 1: would rather description and yeah, and I thought his description
Speaker 1: it was a little you know, he talked to me.
Speaker 1: It was interesting just the way he described Oscilla's character.
Speaker 1: He said, you could search the world and never find
Speaker 1: a man like this.
Speaker 7: I think about those guys who sat in silence for
Speaker 7: days while they painted there. I remember hearing about the
Speaker 7: impact that hairstylists have, like that people just kind of
Speaker 7: talk incessantly, And it has to do with the proximity
Speaker 7: that someone is to your face and they're touching you
Speaker 7: and they're like right in your intimate space. And I
Speaker 7: would assume that that would be somewhat similar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, be like me and my barber Drew.
Speaker 2: Shut out. George George Catlan just wanted them.
Speaker 1: I'm coming to see it. Bouddy, look at this springing
Speaker 1: ship up and bring him bear. Okay, I will not
Speaker 1: be George was one of these barbera and Benton vil Arkins.
Speaker 1: You remember the other one, Clay the artist that it was.
Speaker 1: George Callen was one of them who was the other
Speaker 1: one he was the guy that painted this one. Ye Curtis,
Speaker 1: last name Curtis.
Speaker 2: Robert John Curtis. Yeah, yeah, excellent.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you do you When I posted these pictures
Speaker 1: on my Instagram, Well, it was a guy that listened
Speaker 1: to the podcast. I think sometimes text cannot be translated
Speaker 1: sometimes in the spirit it was given. But the guy
Speaker 1: was like, oh, man, I can't believe that Ostiola looked
Speaker 1: like that. I was expecting a badge to the Bone
Speaker 1: Warrior and here this guy is.
Speaker 2: The description says he had an effeminate face.
Speaker 1: They all said that. And anyway, the guy was like
Speaker 1: disappointed with the paintings, and h and some other bear
Speaker 1: greazers came in and like kind of ridiculed the guy,
Speaker 1: like come on, dude, this is And I even got
Speaker 1: on there and said, yeah, this wasn't a portrait of Ostiola,
Speaker 1: like the in the swamps. This would be this would
Speaker 1: be equivalent to like a president wearing a tuxedo being painted,
Speaker 1: you know, like, it wasn't like a rugged and it's
Speaker 1: not the image of Osiola we want to see. I
Speaker 1: got what the guy was saying, like I wanted to
Speaker 1: see him out in the swamps and his war war outfit,
Speaker 1: which may not have been much different than that. But
Speaker 1: but uh, anyway, the guy came later, would come on
Speaker 1: when we all started kind of challenging him, and he
Speaker 1: was like, man, he was a good guy. He was
Speaker 1: just kind of being funny.
Speaker 2: Okay, I've tried to steer away from doing too many dates,
Speaker 2: but there's an important date in this podcast. So what
Speaker 2: was the date Osciola died?
Speaker 1: Hmmm, that's that's a good one.
Speaker 2: Got it, Okay, Misty January sixth, January sixth, we got
Speaker 2: a January sixth, We got a January sixth.
Speaker 1: Bear January sixth, eighteen thirty eight, January sixth, You guys
Speaker 1: are influenced by modern American politics. Well, he just.
Speaker 2: Said it's eighteen thirty eight. Gary got the year right,
Speaker 2: That's pretty good.
Speaker 1: Dad.
Speaker 2: Is January the thirtieth at six at six am, six
Speaker 2: six six, six twenty.
Speaker 1: I think it was six twenty six.
Speaker 3: Well, it was January sixth in the Puckets, that's.
Speaker 1: When they were transported to Charleston.
Speaker 6: That's the only date that I heard in the whole podcast.
Speaker 1: And in that date is now part of American history.
Speaker 1: In January sixth, the insurgent.
Speaker 3: It'd be like you saying September eleventh, you're gonna remember that?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, two more questions. Wow, wow, we're running it
Speaker 2: down here to whom was the preserved head of Osceola,
Speaker 2: reportedly given to by Whedon's son in law, doctor Daniel Whitehurst.
Speaker 2: Gentlemen in New York. Famous famous family. Wow, famous family.
Speaker 2: Doctor Wickman talked about his family. Last name will work
Speaker 2: for me. We're going to start with Gary nukeomb this time. Gary,
Speaker 2: good job, Bear nothing Ben.
Speaker 3: I do remember the Motts now that Yeah, I didn't
Speaker 3: get it in.
Speaker 2: A ton Rockefeller, Mott, the correct Gary and Clay.
Speaker 1: Here's what this is. This, this is my dream that
Speaker 1: everybody that listens to on podcast, every every Bear Greezer
Speaker 1: out there, when they walked through the grocery store and
Speaker 1: they see Mott apple sauce, that they'll tell their kids
Speaker 1: that guy probably in their family. Someone knows where I'll
Speaker 1: seeal his head is because because he had it could
Speaker 1: be I mean, I I wouldn't that be. I would
Speaker 1: be I would be really proud if I overheard that
Speaker 1: conversation in that store, little kid and a buggy and
Speaker 1: a dad or mom going those guys right, there have
Speaker 1: Ostiola's head, Am I right?
Speaker 2: That would be great.
Speaker 6: I don't know if that's something you should say to
Speaker 6: your little kid.
Speaker 2: What they should use that in their advertising campaign mon
Speaker 2: Apple sauce keepers of the head of Osio.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think the Seminoles would be
Speaker 1: happy with that. I don't think that go over well.
Speaker 2: Okay, last question, this is a This is an easy one.
Speaker 2: Folks mentioned on two separate podcasts who wrote the hit
Speaker 2: song seminole when Blue Blue.
Speaker 1: Surely we're all going to get this.
Speaker 2: Don't show everybody yet, but not everybody's answered. Okay, Misty,
Speaker 2: your friends is growing John Anderson, John Anderson.
Speaker 1: The answer is John Anderson, John Anderson.
Speaker 2: So who had the most?
Speaker 3: I had to to one point five for me, I
Speaker 3: feel like.
Speaker 6: A Rockefeller should have probably come a little further.
Speaker 2: We've got a tie here. I had two and a half,
Speaker 2: two and a half Gary half a point that done
Speaker 2: the patriarch of the Wukham family Winter. Let's give Gary
Speaker 2: Neukom a hand. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 7: Play you should take it personal that we don't remember
Speaker 7: the details. It's not really the I wouldn't remember details unless,
Speaker 7: like I wrote, something down. That's the only way I remember.
Speaker 1: Well, you need to start taking Yeah, no, no, it
Speaker 1: was tough. Okay, we're wrong, We're gonna we're gonna close
Speaker 1: down with uh just uh not closed down. But I
Speaker 1: want to go around. What was the most impacting part
Speaker 1: of this? That what surprised you the most? Did you?
Speaker 1: Would you have known that anything about Ostiola Lostola, Arkansas?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a yeah, No, I've thought about this quite
Speaker 4: a bit, so my answer will be very astute. The
Speaker 4: fact that just two thousand of them, the whole American government,
Speaker 4: the power of the whole military, couldn't whoop these folks. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean they're still here. In her last comment, that
Speaker 4: didn't impact what I was thinking. My thinking was really
Speaker 4: there was there was five thousand, ended up being about
Speaker 4: two thousand, wasn't there in Florida?
Speaker 1: And that number even dwindled down to five hundred.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they just couldn't they couldn't get them out
Speaker 4: of swamps.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 4: It kind of reminds me of some wars America has
Speaker 4: been in. You know, it's hard to beat a guy
Speaker 4: when he's in his own turf. Yeah, So anyway, that
Speaker 4: that's kind of pretty wild to me, it is.
Speaker 1: It really that's a good that's a good comment. Good comment.
Speaker 1: Bear what stood out to you? I think cutting off
Speaker 1: the head in the name of science was pretty grimy,
Speaker 1: like the putting it in a jar, putting it out,
Speaker 1: you know, in his little store there. I don't know.
Speaker 1: That part just didn't really make a ton of sense
Speaker 1: to me. Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because
Speaker 1: I want to talk about it. Was he a villain
Speaker 1: or was he a man of science? Because did you
Speaker 1: not hear the contexts that I built around I thought
Speaker 1: that thing by Theta Purdue, the modern paper that was like, hey,
Speaker 1: this was the time period when all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: for the first time in history, the world was interested
Speaker 1: in the material culture of ancient civilizations. And what you
Speaker 1: didn't see I just read a paragraph out of that
Speaker 1: thing was that there was a big movement going on
Speaker 1: with the Indian Removal Act of eighteen thirty that everybody
Speaker 1: thought that Native Americans were going to be completely wiped
Speaker 1: out from the earth, like gone, like never, and and
Speaker 1: so they were trying to like some people were thinking, man,
Speaker 1: we got to preserve this, you know, we got to
Speaker 1: somehow hold on to this. As part of history because
Speaker 1: that was when the bunch of stuff in Egypt and
Speaker 1: all these things started popping up, and we never had
Speaker 1: interest in that stuff before. So, Okay, here's what I think.
Speaker 1: I think that maybe, like to an extent, it was
Speaker 1: kind of justifiable in the name of science to cut
Speaker 1: off his head. But I think a lot of times,
Speaker 1: like in the same way that like, you know, some
Speaker 1: like snake guys might be a little bit goofy, like
Speaker 1: they're really good with snakes, but they're kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, parts of you know, some can be a
Speaker 1: little bit just say what you're thinking. I don't know
Speaker 1: what you're thinking. I think someone could be a little
Speaker 1: bit crazy. I think this guy might have been a
Speaker 1: really good scientist chopped off the head, did some good science,
Speaker 1: but was also just a little bit crazy. I agree.
Speaker 1: Putting it out on display in a grocery store or
Speaker 1: whatever it was, Yeah, yeah, yeah, an apothecary.
Speaker 7: I think that's that was I'm going to jump off
Speaker 7: of bear. I'm going to kind of cut in line
Speaker 7: because this is the part that.
Speaker 6: I did. I disagreed with the context around it. I
Speaker 6: think that it just speaks to their total.
Speaker 7: Disconcern with the native Americans to just and it.
Speaker 6: It made me so sad.
Speaker 7: I mean that that's the just how they how little
Speaker 7: they thought of them, that they're burial rituals and there,
Speaker 7: that they would just you give that to him. I mean,
Speaker 7: if you had respect for Osciola, you give that to
Speaker 7: his people. You let them, you let them follow their
Speaker 7: rituals and mourning green appropriately.
Speaker 1: And now I'm not believe me. I'm on Ostiola in
Speaker 1: the Seminoles side one hundred percent. That's why I told
Speaker 1: the story. But they were prisoners of war. It yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, what did they do? What did they do
Speaker 1: when they killed Osama bin Laden dumped his body in
Speaker 1: the ocean? Did they not?
Speaker 2: I have I don't know. Did they think they did?
Speaker 2: Because they didn't.
Speaker 1: They didn't want they didn't want it to be honored
Speaker 1: in that culture. If they buried him somewhere, it would become.
Speaker 7: It's not you've kind of set it up where we
Speaker 7: can't disagree with you or else. Really completely unpatriotic.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm on your side. I'm on your side.
Speaker 7: I think I just they had enough respect for this
Speaker 7: man to want his head so I mean, and to
Speaker 7: be intrigued with it.
Speaker 2: I just who who did had enough respect for him
Speaker 2: that he wanted his head. I have a different I
Speaker 2: have a different opinion, but I don't I don't know
Speaker 2: that it's I don't know that you can can classify
Speaker 2: as hero or villain. I think he was an opportunist, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think, I mean by the things that he took
Speaker 2: off of off of his body, you know, he kept
Speaker 2: those gorgets, he kept the other things, and then he
Speaker 2: kept his head because he was an opportunist. It was
Speaker 2: it was I mean, and maybe this makes him a
Speaker 2: villains what he was he was. He was an opportunist
Speaker 2: and he saw it was a it was a novelty
Speaker 2: to him.
Speaker 7: Sure, I think opportunist is a really nice way of
Speaker 7: saying a greedy Yeah, a greedy jerk. And I think
Speaker 7: that's what he was. I think that's what he was.
Speaker 7: And to the point of yeah, it's just file Yeah.
Speaker 1: I couldn't you could tell. When I was talking to
Speaker 1: doctor wig Went, I was shocked that she didn't just
Speaker 1: immediately go, he's a villain. And I appreciated her trying
Speaker 1: to show me the other side of the story that
Speaker 1: maybe he wasn't, because it just kind of that's the
Speaker 1: thing about history is that you can just label somebody
Speaker 1: just like bam, just like villain, and you know, maybe
Speaker 1: he wasn't because I mean that was two hundred years ago.
Speaker 1: Two hundred years ago. Just it doesn't make it right.
Speaker 1: But society was way different. And I think it's hard
Speaker 1: to get around the fact that these were at this
Speaker 1: time as prisoners, powerless people without any rights, and he
Speaker 1: knew he could take advantage of it and get away
Speaker 1: with it. Like what if it had been a US president,
Speaker 1: would he have been able to cut off the head
Speaker 1: and keep it and nobody cared?
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 1: I mean during that time, the Native Americans were absolutely marginalized.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is like fifty years before the Civil.
Speaker 2: Rightsola was famous by them. He was keeping the head
Speaker 2: of someone famous. It wasn't an Indian, it was a
Speaker 2: famous leader. Yeah, Native American leader. So I think he
Speaker 2: was I think he was looking for I mean, it
Speaker 2: was an okwar. I mean I can just picture this guy,
Speaker 2: you know that at some point being like, hey, you
Speaker 2: want to see the head off the.
Speaker 6: Old I mean you put it in his grocery store.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's that's just what they did. What
Speaker 1: I mean that I think I think during that time
Speaker 1: and now I think it's also of note that during
Speaker 1: that time was was with with well, especially when the
Speaker 1: Civil War came. It's like medical science really went through
Speaker 1: like the roof because they were they had bodies to
Speaker 1: study and dissect and do a bunch of weird stuff
Speaker 1: that we don't want to talk about. But that's actually
Speaker 1: we ride on the shoulders of that knowledge today, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like it's like we don't know. Nobody
Speaker 1: I know wants to be a mortician. I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: some morticians out there listening to Bear.
Speaker 2: Greys, thank you for what you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like somebody's got to do that, and
Speaker 1: it and and somebody had to understand the anatomy of
Speaker 1: the human body. And it's not a justification for taking
Speaker 1: the head of a of of of Ostiola, but it
Speaker 1: just kind of puts it into context. I think it
Speaker 1: was nefarious, I absolutely do.
Speaker 3: I think I think here's there's many things I want
Speaker 3: to say. This is actually my takeaway was this story.
Speaker 3: If you're gonna villainize villainize something, it shouldn't be the person.
Speaker 3: It should be the culture and the mentality that he
Speaker 3: grew up in which, like you're saying, absolutely viewed Native
Speaker 3: Americans other ethnicities as lesser human and there's plenty of
Speaker 3: documentation for that, and there was even like a scientific
Speaker 3: theory behind that. But I like that you're bringing in
Speaker 3: the context because it was kind of a golden age
Speaker 3: for science, and we really don't appreciate how much has
Speaker 3: happened in the past couple hundred years with that. Even
Speaker 3: simple things about people being organ donors, well, you know,
Speaker 3: in the Middle Ages, that would not be allowed, Like
Speaker 3: the Europe was so far behind medically because of this
Speaker 3: dogma around corpses and organ and stuff like that. And
Speaker 3: and so to bring back like that science discussion from earlier,
Speaker 3: scientists have had to had to pioneer and suffer a
Speaker 3: lot in the name of getting to find out things
Speaker 3: that we now benefit from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
Speaker 3: That's something just to consider, is like, yeah, they had
Speaker 3: some jacked up stuff that mentalities, but these guys viewed
Speaker 3: themselves as like the cutting edge pioneers. And when there's
Speaker 3: a lot of progress, there's some messed up stuff that
Speaker 3: happens in the process. But I do think and this
Speaker 3: is I'm not a specialist in there in this area.
Speaker 3: I think if you would have had one hundred guys
Speaker 3: in a room just like him, in the same profession,
Speaker 3: I think there probably would have been equal number of
Speaker 3: guys that wouldn't have been opportunistic, and thought, well, let's
Speaker 3: maybe think about this just for a moment, because it
Speaker 3: was it is pretty pretty extreme in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a good that's a good way to say.
Speaker 1: You know. What was interesting to me I was surprised
Speaker 1: to hear doctor Wickman say that she believed the head
Speaker 1: was still around. And then when she began to describe
Speaker 1: to me her search for Osiola's head and and and
Speaker 1: basically opened up the door of like, oh, if you
Speaker 1: understand medical the medical systems, and the museum systems and
Speaker 1: the archives that some of these places have, you understand
Speaker 1: how you could lose a head in a jar, and
Speaker 1: how it would be very probable that that head is
Speaker 1: somewhere right now and maybe it's unlabeled, or maybe it's
Speaker 1: you know, all the different scenarios. And I was fast.
Speaker 1: I had no idea that she had searched for Osciola's
Speaker 1: head as extensively as she had, and uh, she's fully
Speaker 1: convinced that it's somewhere and uh and and uh and
Speaker 1: and Jake Tiger as I understood it, and I just
Speaker 1: took a clip of what he said to what he
Speaker 1: said was actually longer, but I mean he actually believes
Speaker 1: it's in California at that Bohemian club.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: I mean that's what his somebody in his family had
Speaker 1: told him, you know that it's there.
Speaker 2: But I think it's one of those things that could
Speaker 2: have easily gotten lost in the archives.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it could be sitting on a shelf in
Speaker 2: a museum somewhere and people just just wouldn't know it.
Speaker 6: Yet or accidentally gotten thrown away.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think that's just as probable.
Speaker 1: Or I thought it was pretty a valid point that
Speaker 1: what if you're Duke University and you know you have it,
Speaker 1: and you know that if you come out with it
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four that you are going to be
Speaker 1: just lambastard by the world. How did you get this?
Speaker 1: Why have you not told this until now? And it's
Speaker 1: like this will never be known that we had this,
Speaker 1: you know some you know something like that.
Speaker 2: It's doctor Whedon all over again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you have the whereabouts of this this
Speaker 1: artifact called.
Speaker 2: The seminoles of Florida yep, and.
Speaker 3: The music to Unsolved Mystery.
Speaker 6: In my entire.
Speaker 1: Well, uh yeah, So Josh, what was your favorite part?
Speaker 2: I thought it was fascinating just the story of of
Speaker 2: how they treated those Indians in Charleston. I mean, taking
Speaker 2: them to a play. I mean, that's crazy. It's it's
Speaker 2: weird to me. It's always a fascinating to me, the
Speaker 2: dichotomy of how people treat some of these prisoners and
Speaker 2: that that they're respected and and while at the same
Speaker 2: time there they're criminals. I was I recently talked with
Speaker 2: a I was talking with a with a judge and uh,
Speaker 2: he was talking about he used the term and I
Speaker 2: can't remember the exact term, but basically.
Speaker 1: Were you were you in court?
Speaker 2: I'm not allowed to say, but he talked about people
Speaker 2: who who were good people who committed crimes, and then
Speaker 2: you had people who were clearly just bad people who
Speaker 2: committed crimes, and how the jury would often treat these
Speaker 2: criminals had they done you know what, I mean, maybe
Speaker 2: done the same thing, but been lenient with one and
Speaker 2: hard on the other. And I think about, you know,
Speaker 2: this guy who really I mean, he really just wanted
Speaker 2: to protect his land and his people. It wasn't like
Speaker 2: he was a terrorist and going and committing acts in
Speaker 2: New York City, but he was wanting to and and
Speaker 2: people could could sympathize with that. And so I think
Speaker 2: that that produced this this you know definitely, you know,
Speaker 2: being in a prison in in in Florida, lice and
Speaker 2: measles and all this stuff, and then being moved to
Speaker 2: better conditions than Charleston, and then you know, being taken
Speaker 2: to place in town, and it's just it's interesting to
Speaker 2: me to see that dichotomy of how how he was
Speaker 2: treated and then and then you know, just dying from
Speaker 2: an infection. You know, who's to say, Who's to say
Speaker 2: had he lived, what would have happened to him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, who knows. I think guys like that
Speaker 1: have would have a hard time living after defeat.
Speaker 2: Yep, he probably would have slipped into oblivion somewhere like
Speaker 2: Daniel Boone, you know what I mean. Daniel Boom was
Speaker 2: famous at one time.
Speaker 1: But but I think a guy like Ostiola, and this
Speaker 1: is why we're still talking about him, is he was
Speaker 1: so he so didn't have a plan B right that
Speaker 1: I think if they had took him to Florida, or
Speaker 1: they had took n taken him to Oklahoma. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't just something would have happened like what I mean,
Speaker 1: he just would have died there because.
Speaker 2: He Oh yeah, it would have taken the life out
Speaker 2: of him.
Speaker 1: Well I'm saying he would have.
Speaker 2: Or you think there would have been an uprising?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I just think that just was like
Speaker 1: where he was at. But Misty, what was your favorite part? Well?
Speaker 6: I thought, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: You thought we already talked.
Speaker 6: I did. I wasn't planning to say anything else that
Speaker 6: sometimes I have to prepare. That's fine, I thought that
Speaker 6: I did.
Speaker 7: I will just say I did think that what Patricia
Speaker 7: did with the play was pretty incredible that she went
Speaker 7: and wrote it all down and and then had them
Speaker 7: come and read it.
Speaker 6: I was just like, this woman's very hard.
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish, I wish we could have Patricia.
Speaker 1: It would be awful.
Speaker 2: Chain I actually got to talk to her on the
Speaker 2: phone a little bit, and she is everything that you
Speaker 2: hear on the on the podcast.
Speaker 6: She would have definitely want.
Speaker 3: School trivia.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1: Well, hey, this has been great. This this has been
Speaker 1: really great. And the good news is is that there's
Speaker 1: a whole nother like full throttle Ossiole episode that and
Speaker 1: already already foreshadowed. There's no shadow a full sunned the
Speaker 1: what it's going to talk about because in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: seven they exhumed Ossiola's head. Brave body, maybe maybe maybe
Speaker 1: his head was there.
Speaker 6: Say no more, Say no more.
Speaker 2: We don't want to full sun everybody.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you got a podcast. No no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm just building anticipation for it. I couldn't include it,
Speaker 1: like it was just too much to put in this episode.
Speaker 1: But like there's a whole nother story thing that happened that.
Speaker 1: The plot just keeps getting thicker in like nineteen sixty seven,
Speaker 1: since you know, since you were alive, they went and
Speaker 1: dug up his grave a year after.
Speaker 2: I got out of high school.
Speaker 1: Is that right? I'll be done.
Speaker 2: Were you there?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: No, okay, I missed.
Speaker 1: Hey in closing, Uh I killed this buck the other
Speaker 1: day and I would have brought that. I've had a
Speaker 1: it's been a while since I've had a decent year
Speaker 1: bo hunting. U killed that buck and then I killed
Speaker 1: another one.
Speaker 2: But let me let me guess. One thirty eight.
Speaker 1: Five eighths close. YEP, pumped about that, good buck.
Speaker 2: Congratulations, Yeah, that's great buck.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks guys,