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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of

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Speaker 1: the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where

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Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f h

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Speaker 1: F Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear

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Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the place as

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Speaker 1: we explore. I want to pull the group here about something.

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Speaker 1: Should I tell the world that I'm writing a book

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Speaker 1: if it's a year to a year and a half

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Speaker 1: out from being published.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Gosh, I can't think of a good reason why

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't been.

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Speaker 3: Whatever your publishers say.

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Speaker 1: Okay, publisher Bear, what do you think I would say,

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Speaker 1: go for it? Might as well kind.

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Speaker 4: Of gary, yeah, tell them, Yeah, I don't think.

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Speaker 1: Guess why your very own Clay Knook is deep in

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Speaker 1: the heart of a process for writing a book. What

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Speaker 1: made me think of it was on the screen right there,

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, writing, And I was actually with

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Speaker 1: Giannis Putellis the other day and he he was just like, Clay,

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Speaker 1: you got to tell the world because I've kind of

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Speaker 1: not told the world even though it is public knowledge.

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Speaker 1: Because when you get a book contract with a publisher.

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Speaker 1: What the publisher does is they send out a memo

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Speaker 1: to the writing world, like the underworld that like normal people.

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Speaker 5: The CD underbelly of authors, Yeah, exactly, for real, Like

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Speaker 5: so it wouldn't be something that just like I would

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Speaker 5: be attuned to, but it's something that writers and publishers

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Speaker 5: would see.

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Speaker 1: And you do it to state claim on some topic. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the book, like, hey, I'm writing a cookbook.

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Speaker 1: The book, you know at this time is titled American Bear,

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Speaker 1: and that's known that was known a year ago, and

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Speaker 1: but I haven't talked about it because in my mind

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Speaker 1: it's like, am I going to start telling about the

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Speaker 1: research and what I'm doing? And you, honest we tell

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Speaker 1: us was like Clay, if every single podcast you talked

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Speaker 1: about really what you were learning for the next year,

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Speaker 1: you would not even touch the surface of what's in

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Speaker 1: the book, and you would build people's excitement towards it.

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Speaker 1: And so so here we go. I'm writing a book

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Speaker 1: and I'm I'm very excited about it. And really the

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Speaker 1: book is about the American Black Bear, and it's in

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Speaker 1: it's trajectory in American history, which is an incredible that

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Speaker 1: I've never really I don't think anybody's ever like put

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Speaker 1: all the pieces together, and it's going back all the

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Speaker 1: way to deep indigenous worldviews on bear in the in

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Speaker 1: the first contact with with bears that we have documented,

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Speaker 1: all the way into the market hunting of black bears,

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Speaker 1: which is incredible with guys like Boone and Crockett and

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Speaker 1: Gershtocker and Native Americans who were massively involved in the

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Speaker 1: market hunting of black bears, coming all the way up

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Speaker 1: to the modern times of the black bear thriving. Whatever

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Speaker 1: is happening ecologically on planet Earth today has been beneficial

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Speaker 1: to the American black bear. There are eight species of

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Speaker 1: bears on planet Earth, and every one of them has

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Speaker 1: some level of imperiled status in the black bear. There

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Speaker 1: are more American black bears versus Americana. There are twice

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Speaker 1: as many as all the bear species of planets Earth combined.

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Speaker 1: So if there are you know, twenty five thousand polar

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Speaker 1: bears and two hundred thousand brown bears, and and you

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Speaker 1: know all the other there are eight species, one in

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Speaker 1: South America, multiple in Europe. If if you combine all

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Speaker 1: of them, they're twice as many black bears, and so

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Speaker 1: in a time, and this is why you're going to

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Speaker 1: buy the book Dad is in a time you're gonna

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Speaker 1: buy You're gonna buy Christmas for Bear, Ben and Josh

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Speaker 1: When in a time when all the media about planet

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Speaker 1: Earth is is ecological doom, which I mean is kind

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Speaker 1: of true. I mean, with the expansion of civilization and

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Speaker 1: they're being you know, approaching eight billion people on planet

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Speaker 1: Earth and the needs of all these people, there's there's

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Speaker 1: all this like ecological doom. But something crazy has happened

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Speaker 1: with the America black bear and they're springing up in

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Speaker 1: places they hadn't been in one hundred and fifty years,

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Speaker 1: and every researched population of bears is increasing or stable.

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Speaker 1: And it's a fascinating story about America's bear, which is

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Speaker 1: endemic to North America.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just thought it was amazing when you said

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Speaker 2: there's eight species of bears, Like of all the big

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Speaker 2: game animals, of all the cats and everything, I don't

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Speaker 2: know that there's any that have just that limited number

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Speaker 2: of species in that category.

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Speaker 1: Okay, again, I hope your honest is right about me

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Speaker 1: talking about this because I could talk about it for forever.

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Speaker 1: We'll quickly get to Ostiola. This episode is about Ostiola,

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Speaker 1: but in the fossil record, there have been hundreds hundreds

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Speaker 1: of bears that have come and gone that were gone

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Speaker 1: that we would have never even encountered. I mean, like

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Speaker 1: the fossil record is full of bears. And if you

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Speaker 1: were looking at time in like a like like geologic

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Speaker 1: time as opposed to time that really humans can comprehend

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Speaker 1: and understand. Bears are like on the decline. Just just

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Speaker 1: there used to be a hundred species. Now there's eight

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Speaker 1: and it and and that that's not fodder for like

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Speaker 1: not managing them and hunting them. It's actually more fodder

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Speaker 1: for like we need, we need, we need to help

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Speaker 1: them as much as we can, and for a black

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Speaker 1: bear that means you know, regulated hunting in places. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's just fascinating. So mark your calendars.

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Speaker 2: For one and a half years from today.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm a year into this, I'm a

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Speaker 1: year into it. But but we're really turning up the dial.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, save your pennies and nickels so you can buy.

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Speaker 1: Save your pennies and nickels. It's gonna be it's it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be great. I'm gonna I'm gonna read the audiobook. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be good. Dad. Great to have you been

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Speaker 1: a while since you've been up here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's good to be here. I mean I was.

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Speaker 2: I felt like I had been fired.

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Speaker 4: It felt so good. Really, I mean, you know, I'm retired,

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Speaker 4: I'm free. You can't really let glove on me.

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Speaker 1: A good thing about it, A good thing about the

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Speaker 1: renders if you get fired, you never know. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like, don't show back up. No, man, we

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Speaker 1: just we just invite hey, just.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry about me. Just use me. Just call me

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Speaker 2: when you need me.

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Speaker 1: We need you, We need you for Osceola. This this

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Speaker 1: is to me one of the most like when I

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Speaker 1: rank in my mind the work done for a Beargrease

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Speaker 1: documentary style podcasts, it's not so much about like which

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Speaker 1: one is my favorite or which one, but but I

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Speaker 1: really kind of have a mechanism for just ranking the

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Speaker 1: quality of them. And it has to do with the guests,

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Speaker 1: It has to do with the story, It has to

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Speaker 1: do with inten things that happen inside the interviews. It

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Speaker 1: has to do with a lot of times just the

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Speaker 1: cultural touch points that the story touches that we kind

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Speaker 1: of go into and and then it then it goes

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Speaker 1: back to really how well, Like if someone listened to

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Speaker 1: these three episodes and knew nothing of Ostiola, Like what

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Speaker 1: would they learn? Would they really learn? Because there's sometimes

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Speaker 1: with historic characters that I feel like we kind of

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Speaker 1: just did like an okay job. Maybe it was entertaining

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Speaker 1: and fun, but man, I felt like this one was

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Speaker 1: like top shelf. And it was because of doctor Patricia Wickman.

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Speaker 6: For sure.

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Speaker 2: She was good, really good.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I talked to her for four hours, you know,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to end up here in probably two

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Speaker 1: total hours of what she said, and I mean just

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Speaker 1: a unbelievable I said it over and over, but it

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Speaker 1: was she she has an unbelievable passion, ability to retain

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Speaker 1: knowledge and just a lie a career, like a forty

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Speaker 1: year span. She wrote this book right here when she

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Speaker 1: was in college in the nineteen seventies. Her thesis, her thesis. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like there was so much. Yeah, her dissertation was

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Speaker 1: on ostiola, and so she wrote this book and it

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Speaker 1: was it's like just stacked. I mean it's like reading

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Speaker 1: a you know, a medical manuscript, you know, just just

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Speaker 1: stacked with information. And uh. And then as if that

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Speaker 1: wasn't good enough. She came back and wrote the revised edition,

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Speaker 1: which she was adamant.

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Speaker 2: Quite a bit thicker. Oh, it's like she's added quite

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Speaker 2: a bit.

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Speaker 1: It's like a lot thicker. And when I went to

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Speaker 1: see her dad, she was adamant that I read this

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Speaker 1: one and not this one, really because I had read

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Speaker 1: this one. And she was like, oh no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: don't you come to Florida without reading.

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Speaker 2: Honey.

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Speaker 1: Honey almost here saying that, oh yeah, she did, and

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Speaker 1: uh and and it was like two days before I

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Speaker 1: was supposed to go to Florida, So I I don't

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Speaker 1: tell her I read most of it. Well, you did

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Speaker 1: read I.

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Speaker 6: Thought it was in the interview. In the interview, you.

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Speaker 7: Said I read this today, and I thought, oh man,

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Speaker 7: you almost got yourself in trouble there.

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Speaker 1: I was cramming. I was cramming because she she was

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Speaker 1: so sweet, though I appreciated her directness at times, it's

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Speaker 1: going like, no, you don't understand.

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Speaker 4: You know what what made her to me so effective?

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Speaker 4: And it's sort of a lesson in life. And you

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Speaker 4: can't you can't create it. I mean, it's got to

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Speaker 4: be natural. But her little giggle, her little I mean,

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Speaker 4: it just took a pH d full of knowledge and

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Speaker 4: put her kind of in the coffee shop, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, it was just beautiful really yeah.

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Speaker 4: And with that, without the smiles and the giggles, you know,

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Speaker 4: it would have been good, but not great like it

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Speaker 4: ended up, I'd say for sure.

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Speaker 7: And her reprimand I appreciated all the reprimands she gave,

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Speaker 7: her smiles, giggles, and she was like.

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Speaker 1: Like put your put your coffee cup on the coaster. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you know, she was. She was very serious about.

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Speaker 2: I liked when she when he mentioned about about the

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Speaker 2: slaves assimilating into she was like no, no, no, no

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Speaker 2: no no no no no no.

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Speaker 1: No no no, honey, yeah, yeah, you know, I left

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Speaker 1: some of that stuff in very much on purpose. And

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Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't embarrass her because I was actually

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Speaker 1: doing it because it was so I thought it was

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Speaker 1: so cool and and it really showed who she was,

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Speaker 1: you know. And uh, and then just I didn't know

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Speaker 1: a lot about her, and the more I talked to her,

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Speaker 1: the more I saw just you know, I think I

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Speaker 1: used in the podcast the term she was a real gangster,

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Speaker 1: I mean, meaning she was just like legit, like she

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Speaker 1: lived with the Seminoles. She you know, when I when

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Speaker 1: I brought up that Osceola had been taken to a

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Speaker 1: broad like a play in Charleston while he was in prison.

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Speaker 2: Don't divulge too much of that. We've got some good

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Speaker 2: trivia this week.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, she was like, you know what he did?

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Speaker 1: And I went to the New York Museum and copied

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Speaker 1: the entire play, went back to Charleston, invited the Seminoles up,

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Speaker 1: and we did a reading in the theater yep for them.

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Speaker 1: The Flora sent carnations. I mean, it was just like

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Speaker 1: it's like, wow, this this woman's been there, you know,

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Speaker 1: and of I'm kind of just going on and on,

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Speaker 1: but I like it when a story. I think that's

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Speaker 1: what makes a good story too, is that the story.

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Speaker 1: This was about Ostiola, but it was kind of fun

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Speaker 1: to get a little window into doctor Wickman. So it

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Speaker 1: was exciting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So that was the first introduction. Bear new comes here.

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Speaker 1: Good to see a bear. Nice shoes, thank you. I

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Speaker 1: mean I don't they don't. I don't really approve of them,

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Speaker 1: like uh well, I mean you follow, they look really

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Speaker 1: up in front, they look really good, really stylish. But

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Speaker 1: as you know, I think a grown man ought to

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Speaker 1: be wearing leather, leather boots of some kind of like

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Speaker 1: eighty percent of his life. I'm sorry, it's not it's

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Speaker 1: not right, but it's not wrong, and my dad would

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Speaker 1: have disagreed with me. Dad always thought I was kind

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Speaker 1: of a dressed like a hillbilly. Some of us are

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Speaker 1: trying to look nice.

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Speaker 2: But putting in some effort.

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Speaker 1: No, you look great, but I just don't want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to make you feel too great.

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Speaker 7: It does break the cardinal rule that we've had in

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Speaker 7: our family that no one is allowed to have white

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Speaker 7: things here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good luck with that, buddy.

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Speaker 6: Well on our dirt road. But they look good.

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Speaker 3: You're becoming his own man is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, needs a haircut? Yeah, just no. I'm proud of you, bear,

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Speaker 1: Ben Lagron, Good to have you back. Ben's been on

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Speaker 1: here many times, former history teacher, doing all kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm interested to hear your take on Ostiola. Did you

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Speaker 1: know much about Ostiola?

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Speaker 3: Well that it has to do with being a history teacher.

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Speaker 3: When you're a history teacher, you got to know a

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Speaker 3: little bit of a lot of things. And that's why

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Speaker 3: I enjoyed listening to her. Because you always get a

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Speaker 3: deeper appreciation that every story has so many layers of complexity.

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Speaker 3: And I enjoyed listen to her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah cool. Also, so what what yeah you got?

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Speaker 3: I just want to point out before we get to serious,

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Speaker 3: I am a sneakers man, beer skinny guy's gotta stick

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Speaker 3: together and be you know, Clay always says, you.

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Speaker 2: Just got you just got moved all the category heavyweight people.

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Speaker 3: I'll be honest. I can't wear big heavy boots all

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Speaker 3: day like I'm so.

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Speaker 1: Small, You're not strong enough.

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Speaker 3: I'm not strong enough. But here's what Here's what I

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Speaker 3: do have is that I can always run really fast

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Speaker 3: in these shoes. Well, and I am a.

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Speaker 1: Fast until I take my boots off, and then I'm like,

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Speaker 1: who It's true because you know it's like where it

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Speaker 1: weighted ankle weights, you know, and then when you take

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Speaker 1: them off you can run like.

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Speaker 2: That, right, that's right.

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Speaker 3: The conditioning good point.

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Speaker 1: Well, no, that's maybe. And grease color I've noticed that.

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Speaker 1: Just pick that too. Yeah, yeah, Josh, good to see you. Thanks,

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Speaker 1: doctor mister Nukem. Great to see you, very good to

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Speaker 1: see you. Today is Misty's anniversary. How many years? Twenty

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Speaker 1: four years twenty four years. Were married in the year

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Speaker 1: of two thousand. How would you say that in a

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Speaker 1: more uh, the year of our two thousand, like two

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Speaker 1: dominate twenty odd or something. You know, No, mistery and

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Speaker 1: I have been. We got married in the kind of the.

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Speaker 2: The post prime of your life.

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Speaker 1: The prime of our lives, but the latter end of

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Speaker 1: the white tail rut. I remember I told Jeff Cunningham,

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Speaker 1: who was my one of my best friend's dads at

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Speaker 1: the time. I told him that I was getting married

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Speaker 1: on November eighteenth, and he was like, you're going to

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Speaker 1: regret that. He's like, He's like, I'm going to have

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Speaker 1: to come in from deer camp to come to your wedding, Jeff,

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Speaker 1: and he did.

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Speaker 7: And you have regretted. No, you've not regretted getting married,

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Speaker 7: but that the timing. We never celebrate our anniversary on

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Speaker 7: the day or anywhere near it. We actually up six

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Speaker 7: months earlier or six months later, depend on how.

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Speaker 2: Well, Hey, you know what it goes without and redo

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Speaker 2: it like in Midsummer.

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Speaker 1: Josh, you just that just as a slap in the

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Speaker 1: face to what I was just about to say. That

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Speaker 1: very serious, never mind, Gary Newcomb taught me from the

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Speaker 1: time was what two? I mean, like, before I could

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Speaker 1: say dad die, he said, don't ever say the word

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Speaker 1: divorce in this house, did you not?

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Speaker 2: I sure did?

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Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus, we don't use that word. We don't

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Speaker 1: even say it.

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Speaker 2: Josh, Sorry, I said it. I take it all back.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I was going to say, we I really do.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a big deal to be married

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Speaker 1: to somebody committed for decades. It's a big deal. So

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Speaker 1: something we on for sure. Absolutely, Yep, it's great.

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Speaker 7: Speaking of did you all get the same ads that

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Speaker 7: I got in the Bear Grease in this in this

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Speaker 7: podcast where Clay said what he was thankful for?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I actually didn't know where it was going because he

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Speaker 7: started off saying, this is basically an ad for better help,

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Speaker 7: and then he said I'm thankful for Misty.

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Speaker 6: I was like, shot.

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Speaker 3: Or she or she calls me to have therapy.

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Speaker 6: I think that's where I was going.

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Speaker 2: I'm thankful for a misty, But I have to talk

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Speaker 2: about it a lot. Can we talk?

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about the c D underbelly of podcast ads? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they they send you these these ads that you read,

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Speaker 1: but then they say that they'll tell you things to

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Speaker 1: like talk about. Like they'll say, tell someone that, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes the connection is not always there. For me, it's

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Speaker 1: like a cold open like tell about someone in your life,

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Speaker 1: a relationship in your life that you're thankful for. And

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Speaker 1: so it's like, okay, so I talked about mysty and

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Speaker 1: then it's like, if you want someone in your life

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Speaker 1: to help you, you know, call betterhelp dot com.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, then you said I'm thankful for myself.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they they that was that was part part

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Speaker 1: of their deal. Like this month was that this idea

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Speaker 1: that you know, like it's okay to.

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Speaker 2: Like it's it's like the month of self gratitude, right,

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Speaker 2: gratitude and self care or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not I'm not into that word self care.

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Speaker 1: It's a little a little little self aggrandizing, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like a little selfie selfie. Yeah, it's it's just kind

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Speaker 1: of like trendy in the age to be like you

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Speaker 1: got to take care of yourself. I mean you do,

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Speaker 1: but we don't have to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: But thanks Better Help for advertising.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I think it's a great service. I mean I

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Speaker 1: really do.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: My brothers are both therapists or in the therapist adjacent world,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I think it's actually I think I think

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Speaker 1: it's actually a really good service that you could call

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Speaker 1: somebody and have a kind of an unbiased opinion. So

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Speaker 1: use clay at your cheery.

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Speaker 7: Yeah they did not that that was unscripted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 1: I got a funny story. You see this moose antler

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Speaker 1: right here, there's a moose antler behind me. So I

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Speaker 1: hunted the last couple of years with Steve Vanella and

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Speaker 1: Alaska for moose at really the day that we're recording this,

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Speaker 1: so when it comes out, it'll be out. There's the

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Speaker 1: video on the med Eat YouTube channel of the rough

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Speaker 1: cuts called Steve Vanilla rough Cuts of us moose hunting

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Speaker 1: in Alaska two years ago and when the when the

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Speaker 1: plane flew over to come get us, or when he left,

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Speaker 1: the pilot saw a moose paddle and he would later

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Speaker 1: try to describe to us when he came back kind

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Speaker 1: of where it was. He was like, it's like out there,

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Speaker 1: but it was like a quarter mile from the camp,

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Speaker 1: and we went looking for it, couldn't find it. Long

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Speaker 1: story short, when Steve went back to Alaska this year

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Speaker 1: without me, they found the moose handler that was by

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Speaker 1: camp and he sent it to me, which I thought

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Speaker 1: was really cool. Yeah, he shipped it in like a

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Speaker 1: giant box and sent me that moose.

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Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 1: Okay, they had killed a moose and Brody Henderson had

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Speaker 1: killed a moose, and so that antler had a big

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Speaker 1: splotch of blood on it, and they didn't clean it

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Speaker 1: when they sent it. They just put it in a

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Speaker 1: box and sent it. When it came to my house,

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Speaker 1: we took it out of the box and put it

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Speaker 1: on the fireplace. This is a complicated story, Okay, just

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Speaker 1: hang with me. He's worth it.

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Speaker 6: I think it's easier than you think. I think we're

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Speaker 6: all trying.

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Speaker 1: The moose is on our wood stove. Above the wood

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Speaker 1: stove is the moose that I killed the year before,

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Speaker 1: which is giant hanging on the wall as a euro mount.

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Speaker 1: Many times in our family we've talked about what if

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Speaker 1: that moose fell off the wall, And if you were

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Speaker 1: sitting underneath that moose and it fell like seven feet

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Speaker 1: and came down on you, it would likely kill you.

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Speaker 1: It could kill you, You could hurt you. My daughter River

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Speaker 1: Nukem walks into our house.

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Speaker 6: That she walks out of her bedroom which is upstairs.

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Speaker 1: She okay, she walks out of her bedroom and looks

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Speaker 1: down into our living.

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Speaker 7: Room, and Clay and I are usually sitting in the

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Speaker 7: living room every morning when she wakes up to go

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Speaker 7: to work, we're having coffee. So that's what she was

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Speaker 7: expecting to see, was us sitting there.

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Speaker 1: And she sees a moose antler laying underneath the big

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Speaker 1: moose with blood on it. She said that for like

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Speaker 1: a very few real seconds, she was certain that one

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Speaker 1: of those antlers had fallen off and killed someone in

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Speaker 1: their house. Perfect since there was this huge blood. I mean, like,

404
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Speaker 1: why would there be blood on this big moose antler.

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Speaker 1: We don't have two moose, you know. Anyway, so River

406
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Speaker 1: had a little traumatic moment and then she was like

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Speaker 1: looked at the moose on the wall and she's like, well,

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Speaker 1: it's still there, and there's that one. Anyway. It was funny.

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Speaker 4: That is beautiful. That looks like a piece of canvas.

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Speaker 4: If you could ever yeah yeah, oh yeah, they'd finds.

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Speaker 2: Something to put on it. Man, that would really be something.

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Speaker 2: It's something you could paint you something on there.

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Speaker 1: Man. I think a moose andler is like one of

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Speaker 1: the most spectacular I mean it's one of the most

415
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Speaker 1: spectacular antlers. But they're just fascinated. Yeah, it's just so big,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: This little guy. I mean, he's beautiful. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Man, we got I just got so many stories to tell.

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Speaker 1: I got to tell one just real quick about River.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of a monologue today. I've been in

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Speaker 1: the deer stand a lot. Thank you, Thank you for

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Speaker 1: coming to many people. Thank you for coming. So Bear,

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Speaker 1: we don't have to go into all the details just yet.

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Speaker 1: But Bear had his annual deer camp, right okay, and

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Speaker 1: this this story's gonna quickly get back to River.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they had like.

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Speaker 1: Twenty people at Bear's deer camp. There were thirty total

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Speaker 1: that like came, Are you serious? Thirty? They were almost

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Speaker 1: always twenty at once. Like people would come and go

430
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Speaker 1: from all over the country, from all over other countries. Yeah,

431
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 1: we had like three countries represented there. Yeah. And and

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Speaker 1: most of these guys are new hunters. Some of them

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Speaker 1: were veteran hunters. Yep. Most shepherd showed up. Yep. I

434
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Speaker 1: was there for a short time. You'll cook some cook

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Speaker 1: some meat for y'all.

436
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 7: The young guys come, a lot of the younger Yeah,

437
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 7: young men around here like eleven, twelve, thirteen years old

438
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 7: come with their parents.

439
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 6: It's pretty cool.

440
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: So you're going to be surprised at what part of

441
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: the story that I'm interested in. Okay, they deer hunt

442
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: and don't kill any deer, but they kill a bear.

443
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: Are from Levi Mashburn shoots a bear. It's really we've

444
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: killing machine this year. He's had a great season. We

445
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 1: should have had him on the podcast.

446
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's made a lot of work in I mean,

447
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 6: the last couple of years he has.

448
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: He's hunted hard in the last two years. Yeah, and

449
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: has it had made any killed a bear and and

450
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 1: you might think that's what I would be interested in,

451
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: but it's it's actually not sorry what uh No, Levi knows.

452
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of him, very proud of him. He

453
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: did a just a phenomenal job. River Nukeom went to

454
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: bring food. Her and her friends took dinner for all

455
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: the deer hunters. It actually went out in the mountains

456
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: and when they got there, Levi had killed a bear

457
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: and they were all gonna go way back and it

458
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: was a it was a long hike. It was a

459
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: tough pack up. I mean, it wasn't like a they're

460
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: in the big mountains man, And they went back there.

461
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 6: And River wasn't planning to stay, plan to drop.

462
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. River just like had just normal clothes on and

463
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: had crocs. I think she had ugsu Yeah, ugs like

464
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: slip on ugs.

465
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

466
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: And Dad, they're going on this like significant hike. It

467
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: was point six, six miles from the road, but steep,

468
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: like really steep six miles in point yeah, point zero

469
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: points the people out west. That doesn't sound impressive, no,

470
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: but it was a it was a forty five minute

471
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: hike in there probably, Yeah, just real steep. River takes

472
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: off her shoes and walks in their barefoot in the

473
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: wood like a sasquatch. And the worst part about it

474
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: was it wasn't only steep, but it was thick. I

475
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: mean there was just brush and thorn. River. Since River

476
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: didn't wear she's she didn't wear shoes until she was

477
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: like nine, when we made her.

478
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 7: Well, when she would go to school, I would walk

479
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 7: in and I would just see River shoes in the

480
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 7: hallway at school and I would be like, why why

481
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 7: doesn't River have shoes on? And teachers would say, we've

482
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 7: been telling her to get them on. She just takes

483
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 7: them off in every.

484
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 6: Class and she could never find her shoes at school.

485
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: People people and indigenous people and people across the world

486
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: that don't wear shoes. Shoes tighten your feet up and

487
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: make your toes stick together like this like all normal

488
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: people's feet. But if you don't wear shoes, your toes

489
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: spread out like you could, you know, like poke the

490
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 1: ground in between your toes. River has toes, like really, they've.

491
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 7: Come together in her older age, you know, when she

492
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 7: has jobs.

493
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: And the other day, like in the last year, we

494
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: were joking about when she was a little girl, she

495
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: didn't wear shoes, and I said, could you still run

496
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: across the gravel? I mean if I go out on

497
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: the gravel? Yeah, and she was she was like oh yeah.

498
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: She was like, oh yeah, I could. I could do it.

499
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you couldn't show me. She

500
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: takes her shoes off and just sprints down the driveways,

501
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: a full sprint. So anyway, congratulations.

502
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 2: She kind of looks like a Native American too. You

503
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: ever noticed that she's got that dark tire.

504
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 7: Well, you know, everybody in Arkansas believes that they're part

505
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 7: Native American.

506
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 6: I don't know if that's a thing everywhere.

507
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: One day We're going to do a Barger's podcast on it,

508
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: because there's there's actually a legitimate cultural thing about and

509
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: I don't quite have my fingers on it, but everybody.

510
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: You can hardly talk to a person down here that

511
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: doesn't claim to have Native American heritage, and I think

512
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: most of the time it's not true. I mean there's

513
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: stories in our family of it. I mean, my whole

514
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: life grew up here in that juju that my well,

515
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: my grandmother NANAE Milsap grew up in Oklahoma, which is

516
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: you know, Indian Territory. Yeah, and that her grandmother was

517
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: full blood Turkey, do you I mean that's.

518
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: What I grew up here and yeah.

519
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: And but now they have like as I've gone back

520
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: to try to like, okay, let's is that really true,

521
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: It's like nobody can really prove it. I talked to

522
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: people NonStop that last week. I talked to a guy

523
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: and he was like, yep, my great great grandmother was

524
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: this or that, and it's like three in me. We

525
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: checked can tell me that that doesn't that doesn't work.

526
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 6: Guess who's not putting their blood in that sample to

527
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 6: be compared to.

528
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 8: Oh you see what I'm saying, and you need this,

529
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 8: you need the sample because I mean, just like we

530
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 8: see with Osiola and we learned from Sterling hard Joe,

531
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 8: it's not exactly like the the.

532
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: The Native American people in this country have a lot

533
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: of reason to trust the system.

534
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, understandably, so I.

535
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: Mean for real. Yeah, you know, No, that's a big topic.

536
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to fully discuss it. But interesting. Interesting.

537
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: So sorry LEVI that your story was second only to

538
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: River going in Barefoot.

539
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: I wish River was here in that whole tennis shoe

540
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 3: boot debate because she would have brought a whole another one.

541
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I think we should probably

542
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: start with trivia.

543
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

544
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: I agree we're going to have trivia. I didn't.

545
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: Oh man, I wish I would have studied the teachers

546
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: about to get schooled. Look what we got here.

547
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 6: Oh, we've got.

548
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: I will play, but I won't count. Sound like I

549
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: think we'll see if you can stump me.

550
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: Okay, there we go. Dad.

551
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you academically listened to this podcast?

552
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 2: I mean, I know just about everything.

553
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: You know. I do appreciate that about you. When you listen,

554
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: I can really tell you listen.

555
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not too sure how much I retained.

556
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: Okay, what about you? How do you feel like you're

557
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: going to do? I would say decent because I listened

558
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: to this in the ox cord of my truck just disappeared,

559
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: so I had to listen to it, you know, on

560
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: my phone while driving. So probably all right, gosh, take

561
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: us up, take us away?

562
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: Ready for this?

563
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: How many questions do we have?

564
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: We have eight in a bone or nine on a bonus?

565
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: I think? Okay, okay, and keep your score on the

566
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: bottom of ere of your board.

567
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,479
Speaker 1: So how it give us the rule? How we doing it?

568
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 2: So everybody, I'm going to give you a question. Oh,

569
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: we just write it down and you write down the answer,

570
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: just like meat eater trivia, right if you get If

571
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: you get a point, mark it down at the bottom

572
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: of your board. Okay, okay, my old man glasses here

573
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: so I can see what I'm doing. Okay. Question number one,

574
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: what is the name of the stockade or osceola? Was

575
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: originally held? Wow? I thought we'd have a B C

576
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: or no multiple choice? Scary? Mmm, this is not the act, anybody. Remember,

577
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: it's not fun.

578
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 6: It's the question so hard. No one can.

579
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: It was said at.

580
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: Least three times. Yeah, I know you're right, because they

581
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: they took him. This is not giving anybody hint because

582
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: I actually I don't remember, but they when they captured

583
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: him under a flag of truce, they took him to

584
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: a town near Saint.

585
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: I will tell you it starts with Fort Yeah.

586
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was there for a while, and that's

587
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: where the Indians escaped yep, potentially by gotcha kill it?

588
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, all right, does anybody have an answer?

589
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 6: I have an answer?

590
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, let's see your answers. Clay, what do

591
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: you got Fort Payne? Fort Payne? He has Fort Charles Theater,

592
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: Charleston Theater Group, Ben Blank Bear, Fort Myers. That's a

593
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: good guest, Bear, Gary, you got a guess? Clay is

594
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: the closest. It's actually Fort Peyton, Fort Peyton Books. Okay,

595
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: So no right answers on that one. Okay. Question number

596
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: two and and this one was mentioned several times too,

597
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: and I think everybody should should pick up on this one.

598
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: What was the name of the post surgeon and local

599
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: doctor that befriended Osciola and later took his head post mortem?

600
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: That will be going to take someone's head. It's always

601
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: going to be post mortem, right.

602
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: I've literally been thinking about the story all morning that

603
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: I can't recall his name. Oh wait, a Shamus at

604
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 3: the beginning, Josh, you're all going to get this.

605
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: Well.

606
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: I didn't want us to have this big discussion and

607
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: answer all the questions in the discussion. Okay, everybody got

608
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: to answer, all right, Clay, doctor Frederick, Whedon, Misty, doctor Kiljoy,

609
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: what do you got nothing? Bear Weeley, that's Wheden. I

610
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: should have had Gary show up before I said it,

611
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 2: because did you remember that?

612
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm really I love you all. Everyone's here because

613
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: I love you. I'm really disappointed a former.

614
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: Hold on, there's there's a bonus question to this one.

615
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: What was his wife's name? Oh, that's a bonus, just

616
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: a bonus question.

617
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: Bonus.

618
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: There's there's no, there's no. He won't be disappointed with

619
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: you if you know, if you.

620
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: Don't want Yeah, that's a tough one.

621
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: All right, let's see your answers. Misty, Joe, Lene, let

622
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: me just say Judith. Okay, Judith, question mark Edith not Patricia.

623
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: Her name was Mary classic.

624
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: So there was some there was so much that you

625
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: just couldn't tell the story. But Mary Whedon was ken

626
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: to the guy that Osceola assassinated. Oh really, the Wiley

627
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: Wiley Thompson. Mary Whedon was ken to Wiley Thompson. And

628
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: there was a conspiracy theory that the reason Whedon cut

629
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: his head off was retribution to Mary's family. I think

630
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: it's totally unfounded. Me and doctor Wickman disgusted.

631
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: Okay, next question. According to the story told by the Seminoles,

632
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 2: the imprisoned Indians made medicine that turned them into what

633
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: so they could escape through the prison of walls.

634
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: All right, I'm refusing to answer this question, but.

635
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 2: It got an answer. Misty answer one.

636
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 3: Doing a lot of yard work, a lot of hard yards.

637
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: Okay, the correct answer is The.

638
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: Correct answer is not ants? What what they didn't turn into? Answer?

639
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 6: It was water that came up, You didn't they saw?

640
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

641
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the reason that I refuse to answer, because

642
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: they didn't turn into anything. They didn't turn into they became.

643
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 6: Described it though. I actually had to listen to it twice.

644
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: Okay, I listened to the podcast twice and I didn't

645
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: catch it.

646
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, if you, if you really listen, they didn't

647
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: turn into ants. They became as small as ants. Oh

648
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: that's that makes sense, like honey, the kids, Yeah, okay,

649
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: got it.

650
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 6: I wonder if there's some copyright infringement there.

651
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: Maybe Okay, well that one doesn't count apparently, all right.

652
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: Can we can? Can we use this as a springboard

653
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: to talk about a few things that I don't think

654
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: will be a question. I actually really I said it.

655
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: I think I hope it came across that, like I

656
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: really like these stories of like supernatural activity. What did

657
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: you think about my commentary about supernatural stuff? You remember,

658
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: I said basically that a lot of times you hear

659
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: these stories and you're just like, ah, that's like just

660
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: completely discounted folklore. And the reason I brought up the

661
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: biblical prison break is because sometimes I think, I mean,

662
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: like in the cultural lexicon of a lot of people

663
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: who would consider themselves Christians, like if you hear this

664
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: story about someone turning into the size of an ant,

665
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: you're kind of just like chuckle. But I mean, like

666
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: in the in our stories, we got some wild stories too, yeah,

667
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, And so anyway, I'm not saying that I

668
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: believe that that happened, but basically supernatural being things that

669
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: would break the laws of physics that we know to

670
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: be true. And but the way that it is, the

671
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: way that you know it's it's it's seen as the

672
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: spirit world would work, is that you're you're belief in

673
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: it would be the catalyst to like seeing it, you know.

674
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: And and and basically the idea that the way that

675
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: you think right now, bear bear shoes those no. No,

676
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: the way that we think is not the way that

677
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: most people that ever lived on planet Earth thought. I mean,

678
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: like we are a product of a long time, like

679
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: the Enlightenment and all this science and all this stuff,

680
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: which is true. Like I'm not saying that science isn't true,

681
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: but I wish I could have kept it on there.

682
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: But Patricia Wickman was actually at one point she was

683
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: talking about she was talking about Indian medicine like, which

684
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: was just like they're essentially their access to the spirit realm,

685
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: which again I'm not saying I might, I'm not saying

686
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: anything about that, but she said, as smart as she is,

687
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: she said, for me to think that I understand all

688
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: the mechanisms of how this universe operates, right is absurd.

689
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I said, Buck.

690
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think there's a lot of wisdom

691
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 3: in that statement you just said, and I find it

692
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: interesting right now, like you could go watch a million

693
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 3: documentaries on paranormal activity, UFOs and all this stuff that

694
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 3: it's you, your skeptical brain, your Western educated skeptic brain,

695
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: wants to just like poke holes in the whole thing.

696
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 3: But when you think about just like the accumulating mass

697
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 3: of eyewitness accounts or some of these documentaries prove you

698
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 3: at least walk away, You're like, you know what, I

699
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 3: don't really know what happened, So it would be very

700
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: arrogant of me to say, oh, they're all just crazy

701
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 3: and it's all of this massive conspiracy. And so that's

702
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 3: that's my feedback on your statement there in the podcast

703
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: of like, like you pointed out, who are we to

704
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: say over here this is false? And I know that

705
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: for sure in this over here that validates my beliefs.

706
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 3: It's true. What is easy to me to assess me

707
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 3: look at the big picture of human history is that

708
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 3: there's obviously some way more complex things going on than

709
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: we can that we can assess by our own personal experience.

710
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 3: Because that's where humans get so messed up as they think, well,

711
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 3: I've never seen that. Yeah, it's not true. It's like, Wow,

712
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: you've been on this planet for this much and you

713
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 3: can make an assessment on all of the entire universe.

714
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 3: That's pretty bold.

715
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

716
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: I liked what you said about how like a lot

717
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: of times the super like if we would have had

718
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: like you know, people would have had no understanding of

719
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: like science in the laws of physics, Like whenever they'd

720
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: like pray for a rainstorm and a rainstorm would come,

721
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: like there was still science behind that. Like there it

722
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: was like I forgot exactly how you word it, but

723
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: like a lot of times like the natural functions of

724
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: the Earth can be you know, like are the supernatural

725
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: can play out even in the midst of.

726
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 6: In the context of the natural laws of physical.

727
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, because and kind of the point of that,

728
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: well finish your thought there, well yeah, And I mean

729
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: it's like even like a lot of the like stories

730
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: in the Bible, like sometimes they'll like uncover things like

731
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: the one example I could think of was like in

732
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: Sodom and Gomora, you know, like they uncovered like that

733
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: city that had like the high sulfur content they think

734
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: like meteorites, yeah or something, and it was like, if

735
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: you'd have had no understanding of what a meteorite was,

736
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: you would have said, yeah, balls of fire are flying

737
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: from the sky destroying the city. But it's like there

738
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: was actually like a natural thing behind it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

739
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: That's good.

740
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 6: Yeah.

741
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 7: I think that I think it's a real discount to

742
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 7: humanity to not believe in the supernatural. And I think

743
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 7: that that's probably why some of the imbalances that we're

744
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 7: seeing on on planet Earth exist, because we actually are

745
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 7: we are supernatural beings, and we should have sight for

746
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 7: those things, and and we're kind of denying this thing

747
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 7: that makes us fundamentally different.

748
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: And I think you can say that and also be

749
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: like a massive believer and proponent of science. Oh yeah,

750
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: both of those things can fit into the same the

751
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: same vat. And what I was saying about that belief

752
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 1: in and when I say supernatural, I'm not even talking

753
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: about like turning yourself into the size of an ant

754
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: something that dramatic like that's but but you live a

755
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy. And so the question is what is reality?

756
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: So if I walk around and believe that the that

757
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: there is a spirit realm, that's as real as the

758
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: natural realm, and through my faith in God, I have

759
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: access to that at some level, like at some level

760
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: for my life, which you know, I could give examples

761
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: of things that have happened to me that that that

762
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: bias that I have to believe that because for whatever

763
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: reason makes it actually real to me. And if you don't, like,

764
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: if if you're cut off to that, then then you

765
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: have full right to be like, No, supernatural is not real.

766
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: I mean because it's not to you, right, I mean

767
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 1: it's like and you won't see it, and you won't

768
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: see it. Yeah, You're going to go through your whole

769
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: life and never see it. I mean that's the that's

770
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: the triggering power of faith that we see about. Yeah,

771
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: it is, I mean like the I and that's where

772
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: the the spirit realm is accessed differently than the natural realm.

773
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 1: And anyway, I think that's massively interesting and massively relevant.

774
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like in our our society today,

775
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: we're enamored with the things we can touch, touch, taste, see, smell,

776
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: rationally think and man, when I look back and of

777
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: all the research I've done in bear Grease and interviewing

778
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: all these people, I'm kind of looking back into history,

779
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: Like I realize what has been lost inside of modern

780
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: society with all the knowledge that we have that's wonderful,

781
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: like that, we've lost part of our humanity. And I'm

782
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: not talking about uki guki spiritual stuff like I I

783
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 1: don't know, I think I'm I think we're pretty normal people.

784
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: And and actually to be normal is to have an

785
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: understanding of the you know, some grapple of the of

786
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: the of the spirit realm, you know.

787
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: And so well, one.

788
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 4: Let me use the word truism that you see in

789
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 4: all societies, all people, they all seek a superior being everybody.

790
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't care you go to remote places

791
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 4: years ago that they had never even seen anybody. I

792
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 4: mean they're doing they're doing something. You know, they're looking

793
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,879
Speaker 4: at the sun. You know, they're so it's in it's

794
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 4: pretty much in eight within.

795
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: Us to seek this out.

796
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

797
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I believe it or not, it's too consistent.

798
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, the seminos, I mean they're you know, they're seeking

799
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 4: out absolutely a spiritual life.

800
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

801
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 3: I always say, just to wrap that thought, I've always

802
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 3: say science anders the house. Spirituality answers the why they

803
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 3: don't have to be inseparable and so if you deny

804
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 3: one of those, you basically have to say that there

805
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 3: is no why, and that's a pretty sad place to live. Yeah,

806
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 3: and you only have the how, and that's not really

807
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 3: a basis for building your life in my opinion.

808
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. Now I love when little tangents kind of

809
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 1: take you down a road you wouldn't think about. So yeah,

810
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: good question, Joshy. Except for how they didn't turn into ants.

811
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 6: Clearly, God, I'm still giving myself one point for that.

812
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go hide that point.

813
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, still exactly get a point for ants?

814
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, Yeah, can we get a point?

815
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 2: He was question question number four, Question question number four.

816
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: On January first, eighteen thirty eight, the imprisoned. The imprisoned

817
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 2: seminoles were moved from Saint Augustine, Florida, to Charleston, South Carolina,

818
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: to more sanitary conditions under the supervision of Captain Pitt

819
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: Cairn Morrison. How many seminoles were there? And this was

820
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: mentioned at least twice, So I'll give you a hint.

821
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: It's more than fifty and less than four hundred.

822
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: In rhymes with foo hundred and forty eight forty.

823
00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: Okay, does everybody have an answer, Hey, Spencer movie, it

824
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 2: gives you like two minutes, I give you like fifteen.

825
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: And I'll give you a bonus point if you can

826
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 1: name the name of the ship that they were on. Yeah. Now,

827
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: I don't want our tribute to become just like factual trivia.

828
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: I would like may wow, Shanna Maria, Yeah, to have like, uh,

829
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: maybe maybe throwing a few more questions that were more

830
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: like essays conceptual questions.

831
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 6: Yea.

832
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 3: For as a history, you look for the concepts.

833
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: Okay, go ahead. Really a good job, go ahead, go ahead.

834
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 6: So my answer based off of Clay's hit two hundred.

835
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 3: Okay, man, how do you have time to draw the pictures?

836
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

837
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 3: I did, Honestly, I knew it was two hundred something.

838
00:46:54,560 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 2: I did know that, Okay, Okay, Oh good eight and

839
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: Clay with the correct answer too, hundred and thirty seven.

840
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: That's half a point.

841
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: That's point because there was actually a little math in there,

842
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: because she said all two hundred and thirty seven seminoles

843
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 1: and then the next one I referenced and I said

844
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: osceola and the other two hundred and thirty six. So yeah, okay.

845
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: Great tricks of the podcast in Trade.

846
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 2: Okay, this one it because it was it was discussed

847
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 2: what was the name of the play that the prisoners

848
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 2: were taking to see at the dock Street Theater and Charleston.

849
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: I feel like you're setting us up for failure when

850
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: you say this one.

851
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: Everyone little known fact. Christy and I went on our

852
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: twenty fifth anniversary last year. We went to Charleston and

853
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: we almost went to go see a play at the

854
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 2: dock Street Theater.

855
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: No way, Yeah, did you really?

856
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 2: Yep? Wow?

857
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: And y'all have been married a year longer than us two.

858
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: We just celebrated our twenty sixth anniversary. Oh wow, yeah, great.

859
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: How long you been married? Dad?

860
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 2: I don't remember.

861
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 4: It's more than fifty Yeah, because we were married.

862
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: Okay, everybody got it from the type.

863
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: Reva Hamilton, Hamilton.

864
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: Okay, those are blanks because I didn't remember Gary nothing.

865
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: It was called the Honeymoon.

866
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: I knew it had something to do with a celestial bean. Yeah, okay, okay, okay.

867
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 2: This is a This is a a name one of

868
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,959
Speaker 2: the artists that painted Ossiola's portraits just before his death.

869
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 2: There were two of them that he mentioned.

870
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: And there were actually a lot more.

871
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 2: Well, this is the this happened three days before his death.

872
00:48:58,600 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: We need to start.

873
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: Hey, this is the name that do you remember this name?

874
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 2: Ben?

875
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 3: I did it rung about with one of the two.

876
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this guy was really famous, guy Boone?

877
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: Right?

878
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: No, no, no, well.

879
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 6: Ture sounded like that in the podcast.

880
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: One of them, you guys. No, I did equate this

881
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: man painting Ostiola to the young portrait painter. Is the

882
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: name has escaped me, But it wasn't. George Catlin painted Boone.

883
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 2: Well, Clay just gave one of the answers Kyle Carroll.

884
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: Carrol who made this. Kyle is a modern artist in

885
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: game War.

886
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,240
Speaker 2: He was our guest on our last frinder.

887
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: Oh that's just right in his end, I can't spells.

888
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we're on a roll here, folks, Okay, I

889
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 2: do have to talk about this.

890
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: I really you kind of get the sense when you

891
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: these painters. I mean, this was before photography, Like the

892
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: only way that the American public would know what someone

893
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: looked like if someone painted him. I mean, how cool

894
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 1: would that be? How cool would the pace of life?

895
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: It was just interesting?

896
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 6: Yeah.

897
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: And then these guys would also, right, I mean they

898
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: would sit for hours, days, you know, the Boone. The

899
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: Boone portrait painter went to Boone's house and I'll never

900
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: I'll never forget this, Like I almost cried when I

901
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: read it on the podcast when I you know, on

902
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: back in those episodes, just because I don't know. It's

903
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: just like a touching human moment. Daniel Boone, this American

904
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 1: archetype of identity frontiersman. He was so unknown when he died.

905
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: He was aged eighty four and had been and was

906
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,439
Speaker 1: in Missouri and didn't even know his neighbor. This guy

907
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: traveled down from one hundred miles via horse, gets within

908
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: him like a mile of Boone's house, and he stops

909
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: and asks a man, hey, do you know Daniel Boone?

910
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: And the guy goes no. And the man's wife overhears

911
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: the conversation with a stranger and she goes, yeah, that's

912
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: the old man that lives down by the river, you know, yeah,

913
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: And he goes, oh, yeah, that old white haired guy.

914
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: And then he goes down there and finds Boone roasting

915
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: venison on a ramrod over a fire in his house.

916
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: Eighty four year old man Daniel Boone, you know, captured

917
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,919
Speaker 1: by the Shawnees. They called him a big turtle, never

918
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: had a Shawnee wife, loved one woman his whole life. Yeah,

919
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: and uh, and then and then Boone dies and and

920
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: and that's the only actual portrait of Boone that we have.

921
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: And then Osceola dies just days after they paint his portrait.

922
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: And these were the first portraits that ever came out

923
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: about Ostiola because he was running from the law. I mean,

924
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: he was like Osama bin Laden in a way. I mean,

925
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, just in the American consciousness, it would have

926
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: been like essentially like a terrorist, but people wanted to

927
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: know what he looked like people. I think that's fast.

928
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 3: I appreciated you saying that because we're in our world

929
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 3: of just photos everywhere. Now we got ai can make images.

930
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 3: It's like we don't really appreciate how valuable that stuff is.

931
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 3: That's why Dolly Madison, you know, ran into the White

932
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 3: House to grab George Washington portrait when the British attack

933
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 3: and the word of eighteen twelve.

934
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 1: It's a good history.

935
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 3: It's like, this is we got to save this thing,

936
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 3: and yeah, we don't. And it was hard at trying

937
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 3: to get students to appreciate old art because it was

938
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 3: like he cares about this old guy. It's like no man.

939
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 3: That was very significant.

940
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: And then they would always ride about him. That was

941
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: the point. This is more of a monologue today. They

942
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: would rather description and yeah, and I thought his description

943
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: it was a little you know, he talked to me.

944
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: It was interesting just the way he described Oscilla's character.

945
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: He said, you could search the world and never find

946
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: a man like this.

947
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 7: I think about those guys who sat in silence for

948
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 7: days while they painted there. I remember hearing about the

949
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 7: impact that hairstylists have, like that people just kind of

950
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 7: talk incessantly, And it has to do with the proximity

951
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 7: that someone is to your face and they're touching you

952
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 7: and they're like right in your intimate space. And I

953
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 7: would assume that that would be somewhat similar.

954
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, be like me and my barber Drew.

955
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 2: Shut out. George George Catlan just wanted them.

956
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: I'm coming to see it. Bouddy, look at this springing

957
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: ship up and bring him bear. Okay, I will not

958
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: be George was one of these barbera and Benton vil Arkins.

959
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: You remember the other one, Clay the artist that it was.

960
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: George Callen was one of them who was the other

961
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 1: one he was the guy that painted this one. Ye Curtis,

962
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: last name Curtis.

963
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 2: Robert John Curtis. Yeah, yeah, excellent.

964
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 1: Okay, do you do you When I posted these pictures

965
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: on my Instagram, Well, it was a guy that listened

966
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: to the podcast. I think sometimes text cannot be translated

967
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: sometimes in the spirit it was given. But the guy

968
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 1: was like, oh, man, I can't believe that Ostiola looked

969
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 1: like that. I was expecting a badge to the Bone

970
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: Warrior and here this guy is.

971
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 2: The description says he had an effeminate face.

972
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: They all said that. And anyway, the guy was like

973
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: disappointed with the paintings, and h and some other bear

974
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: greazers came in and like kind of ridiculed the guy,

975
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 1: like come on, dude, this is And I even got

976
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 1: on there and said, yeah, this wasn't a portrait of Ostiola,

977
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 1: like the in the swamps. This would be this would

978
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: be equivalent to like a president wearing a tuxedo being painted,

979
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: you know, like, it wasn't like a rugged and it's

980
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 1: not the image of Osiola we want to see. I

981
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: got what the guy was saying, like I wanted to

982
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: see him out in the swamps and his war war outfit,

983
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: which may not have been much different than that. But

984
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: but uh, anyway, the guy came later, would come on

985
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: when we all started kind of challenging him, and he

986
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: was like, man, he was a good guy. He was

987
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 1: just kind of being funny.

988
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 2: Okay, I've tried to steer away from doing too many dates,

989
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 2: but there's an important date in this podcast. So what

990
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 2: was the date Osciola died?

991
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: Hmmm, that's that's a good one.

992
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 2: Got it, Okay, Misty January sixth, January sixth, we got

993
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 2: a January sixth, We got a January sixth.

994
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: Bear January sixth, eighteen thirty eight, January sixth, You guys

995
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: are influenced by modern American politics. Well, he just.

996
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 2: Said it's eighteen thirty eight. Gary got the year right,

997
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 2: That's pretty good.

998
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:06,919
Speaker 1: Dad.

999
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 2: Is January the thirtieth at six at six am, six

1000
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,240
Speaker 2: six six, six twenty.

1001
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: I think it was six twenty six.

1002
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 3: Well, it was January sixth in the Puckets, that's.

1003
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: When they were transported to Charleston.

1004
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 6: That's the only date that I heard in the whole podcast.

1005
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: And in that date is now part of American history.

1006
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: In January sixth, the insurgent.

1007
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 3: It'd be like you saying September eleventh, you're gonna remember that?

1008
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1009
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, two more questions. Wow, wow, we're running it

1010
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: down here to whom was the preserved head of Osceola,

1011
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 2: reportedly given to by Whedon's son in law, doctor Daniel Whitehurst.

1012
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:52,720
Speaker 2: Gentlemen in New York. Famous famous family. Wow, famous family.

1013
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 2: Doctor Wickman talked about his family. Last name will work

1014
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 2: for me. We're going to start with Gary nukeomb this time. Gary,

1015
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: good job, Bear nothing Ben.

1016
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,720
Speaker 3: I do remember the Motts now that Yeah, I didn't

1017
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 3: get it in.

1018
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 2: A ton Rockefeller, Mott, the correct Gary and Clay.

1019
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: Here's what this is. This, this is my dream that

1020
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: everybody that listens to on podcast, every every Bear Greezer

1021
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 1: out there, when they walked through the grocery store and

1022
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: they see Mott apple sauce, that they'll tell their kids

1023
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 1: that guy probably in their family. Someone knows where I'll

1024
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: seeal his head is because because he had it could

1025
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: be I mean, I I wouldn't that be. I would

1026
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: be I would be really proud if I overheard that

1027
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: conversation in that store, little kid and a buggy and

1028
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: a dad or mom going those guys right, there have

1029
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: Ostiola's head, Am I right?

1030
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 2: That would be great.

1031
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 6: I don't know if that's something you should say to

1032
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 6: your little kid.

1033
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 2: What they should use that in their advertising campaign mon

1034
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 2: Apple sauce keepers of the head of Osio.

1035
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think the Seminoles would be

1036
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: happy with that. I don't think that go over well.

1037
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: Okay, last question, this is a This is an easy one.

1038
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 2: Folks mentioned on two separate podcasts who wrote the hit

1039
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 2: song seminole when Blue Blue.

1040
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: Surely we're all going to get this.

1041
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 2: Don't show everybody yet, but not everybody's answered. Okay, Misty,

1042
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 2: your friends is growing John Anderson, John Anderson.

1043
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: The answer is John Anderson, John Anderson.

1044
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: So who had the most?

1045
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 3: I had to to one point five for me, I

1046
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 3: feel like.

1047
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 6: A Rockefeller should have probably come a little further.

1048
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 2: We've got a tie here. I had two and a half,

1049
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: two and a half Gary half a point that done

1050
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 2: the patriarch of the Wukham family Winter. Let's give Gary

1051
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 2: Neukom a hand. Yeah.

1052
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: I don't think.

1053
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 7: Play you should take it personal that we don't remember

1054
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 7: the details. It's not really the I wouldn't remember details unless,

1055
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 7: like I wrote, something down. That's the only way I remember.

1056
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: Well, you need to start taking Yeah, no, no, it

1057
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: was tough. Okay, we're wrong, We're gonna we're gonna close

1058
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: down with uh just uh not closed down. But I

1059
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: want to go around. What was the most impacting part

1060
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: of this? That what surprised you the most? Did you?

1061
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: Would you have known that anything about Ostiola Lostola, Arkansas?

1062
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a yeah, No, I've thought about this quite

1063
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 4: a bit, so my answer will be very astute. The

1064
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 4: fact that just two thousand of them, the whole American government,

1065
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 4: the power of the whole military, couldn't whoop these folks. Yeah,

1066
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 4: I mean they're still here. In her last comment, that

1067
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 4: didn't impact what I was thinking. My thinking was really

1068
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 4: there was there was five thousand, ended up being about

1069
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 4: two thousand, wasn't there in Florida?

1070
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: And that number even dwindled down to five hundred.

1071
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they just couldn't they couldn't get them out

1072
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 4: of swamps.

1073
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 2: It.

1074
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 4: It kind of reminds me of some wars America has

1075
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 4: been in. You know, it's hard to beat a guy

1076
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 4: when he's in his own turf. Yeah, So anyway, that

1077
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 4: that's kind of pretty wild to me, it is.

1078
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: It really that's a good that's a good comment. Good comment.

1079
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 1: Bear what stood out to you? I think cutting off

1080
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: the head in the name of science was pretty grimy,

1081
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: like the putting it in a jar, putting it out,

1082
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, in his little store there. I don't know.

1083
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: That part just didn't really make a ton of sense

1084
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: to me. Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because

1085
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: I want to talk about it. Was he a villain

1086
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: or was he a man of science? Because did you

1087
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: not hear the contexts that I built around I thought

1088
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: that thing by Theta Purdue, the modern paper that was like, hey,

1089
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: this was the time period when all of a sudden,

1090
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: for the first time in history, the world was interested

1091
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: in the material culture of ancient civilizations. And what you

1092
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: didn't see I just read a paragraph out of that

1093
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: thing was that there was a big movement going on

1094
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: with the Indian Removal Act of eighteen thirty that everybody

1095
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 1: thought that Native Americans were going to be completely wiped

1096
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: out from the earth, like gone, like never, and and

1097
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: so they were trying to like some people were thinking, man,

1098
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: we got to preserve this, you know, we got to

1099
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: somehow hold on to this. As part of history because

1100
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: that was when the bunch of stuff in Egypt and

1101
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: all these things started popping up, and we never had

1102
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 1: interest in that stuff before. So, Okay, here's what I think.

1103
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: I think that maybe, like to an extent, it was

1104
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: kind of justifiable in the name of science to cut

1105
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 1: off his head. But I think a lot of times,

1106
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: like in the same way that like, you know, some

1107
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: like snake guys might be a little bit goofy, like

1108
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: they're really good with snakes, but they're kind of like,

1109
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: you know, parts of you know, some can be a

1110
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: little bit just say what you're thinking. I don't know

1111
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 1: what you're thinking. I think someone could be a little

1112
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: bit crazy. I think this guy might have been a

1113
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: really good scientist chopped off the head, did some good science,

1114
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: but was also just a little bit crazy. I agree.

1115
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: Putting it out on display in a grocery store or

1116
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: whatever it was, Yeah, yeah, yeah, an apothecary.

1117
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 7: I think that's that was I'm going to jump off

1118
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 7: of bear. I'm going to kind of cut in line

1119
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 7: because this is the part that.

1120
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 6: I did. I disagreed with the context around it. I

1121
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 6: think that it just speaks to their total.

1122
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 7: Disconcern with the native Americans to just and it.

1123
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 6: It made me so sad.

1124
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 7: I mean that that's the just how they how little

1125
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,959
Speaker 7: they thought of them, that they're burial rituals and there,

1126
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 7: that they would just you give that to him. I mean,

1127
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 7: if you had respect for Osciola, you give that to

1128
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 7: his people. You let them, you let them follow their

1129
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 7: rituals and mourning green appropriately.

1130
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: And now I'm not believe me. I'm on Ostiola in

1131
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: the Seminoles side one hundred percent. That's why I told

1132
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: the story. But they were prisoners of war. It yeah,

1133
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: I mean, what did they do? What did they do

1134
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: when they killed Osama bin Laden dumped his body in

1135
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: the ocean? Did they not?

1136
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,479
Speaker 2: I have I don't know. Did they think they did?

1137
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 2: Because they didn't.

1138
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: They didn't want they didn't want it to be honored

1139
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: in that culture. If they buried him somewhere, it would become.

1140
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 7: It's not you've kind of set it up where we

1141
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 7: can't disagree with you or else. Really completely unpatriotic.

1142
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm on your side. I'm on your side.

1143
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 7: I think I just they had enough respect for this

1144
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 7: man to want his head so I mean, and to

1145
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 7: be intrigued with it.

1146
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 2: I just who who did had enough respect for him

1147
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 2: that he wanted his head. I have a different I

1148
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 2: have a different opinion, but I don't I don't know

1149
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 2: that it's I don't know that you can can classify

1150
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: as hero or villain. I think he was an opportunist, Yeah,

1151
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 2: I think, I mean by the things that he took

1152
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 2: off of off of his body, you know, he kept

1153
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 2: those gorgets, he kept the other things, and then he

1154
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 2: kept his head because he was an opportunist. It was

1155
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 2: it was I mean, and maybe this makes him a

1156
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 2: villains what he was he was. He was an opportunist

1157
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 2: and he saw it was a it was a novelty

1158
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 2: to him.

1159
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 7: Sure, I think opportunist is a really nice way of

1160
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 7: saying a greedy Yeah, a greedy jerk. And I think

1161
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 7: that's what he was. I think that's what he was.

1162
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 7: And to the point of yeah, it's just file Yeah.

1163
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: I couldn't you could tell. When I was talking to

1164
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: doctor wig Went, I was shocked that she didn't just

1165
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 1: immediately go, he's a villain. And I appreciated her trying

1166
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 1: to show me the other side of the story that

1167
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: maybe he wasn't, because it just kind of that's the

1168
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: thing about history is that you can just label somebody

1169
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: just like bam, just like villain, and you know, maybe

1170
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: he wasn't because I mean that was two hundred years ago.

1171
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 1: Two hundred years ago. Just it doesn't make it right.

1172
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: But society was way different. And I think it's hard

1173
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: to get around the fact that these were at this

1174
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: time as prisoners, powerless people without any rights, and he

1175
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: knew he could take advantage of it and get away

1176
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: with it. Like what if it had been a US president,

1177
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: would he have been able to cut off the head

1178
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: and keep it and nobody cared?

1179
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 8: No.

1180
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: I mean during that time, the Native Americans were absolutely marginalized.

1181
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean, this is like fifty years before the Civil.

1182
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 2: Rightsola was famous by them. He was keeping the head

1183
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 2: of someone famous. It wasn't an Indian, it was a

1184
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 2: famous leader. Yeah, Native American leader. So I think he

1185
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 2: was I think he was looking for I mean, it

1186
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 2: was an okwar. I mean I can just picture this guy,

1187
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 2: you know that at some point being like, hey, you

1188
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 2: want to see the head off the.

1189
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 6: Old I mean you put it in his grocery store.

1190
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1191
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's that's just what they did. What

1192
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: I mean that I think I think during that time

1193
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: and now I think it's also of note that during

1194
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: that time was was with with well, especially when the

1195
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: Civil War came. It's like medical science really went through

1196
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 1: like the roof because they were they had bodies to

1197
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 1: study and dissect and do a bunch of weird stuff

1198
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: that we don't want to talk about. But that's actually

1199
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 1: we ride on the shoulders of that knowledge today, you know.

1200
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's like it's like we don't know. Nobody

1201
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: I know wants to be a mortician. I'm sure there's

1202
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 1: some morticians out there listening to Bear.

1203
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 2: Greys, thank you for what you do.

1204
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like somebody's got to do that, and

1205
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: it and and somebody had to understand the anatomy of

1206
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 1: the human body. And it's not a justification for taking

1207
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: the head of a of of of Ostiola, but it

1208
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: just kind of puts it into context. I think it

1209
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: was nefarious, I absolutely do.

1210
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 3: I think I think here's there's many things I want

1211
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 3: to say. This is actually my takeaway was this story.

1212
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 3: If you're gonna villainize villainize something, it shouldn't be the person.

1213
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 3: It should be the culture and the mentality that he

1214
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 3: grew up in which, like you're saying, absolutely viewed Native

1215
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 3: Americans other ethnicities as lesser human and there's plenty of

1216
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 3: documentation for that, and there was even like a scientific

1217
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 3: theory behind that. But I like that you're bringing in

1218
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 3: the context because it was kind of a golden age

1219
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 3: for science, and we really don't appreciate how much has

1220
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 3: happened in the past couple hundred years with that. Even

1221
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 3: simple things about people being organ donors, well, you know,

1222
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 3: in the Middle Ages, that would not be allowed, Like

1223
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 3: the Europe was so far behind medically because of this

1224
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 3: dogma around corpses and organ and stuff like that. And

1225
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 3: and so to bring back like that science discussion from earlier,

1226
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 3: scientists have had to had to pioneer and suffer a

1227
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 3: lot in the name of getting to find out things

1228
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:14,919
Speaker 3: that we now benefit from.

1229
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

1230
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 3: That's something just to consider, is like, yeah, they had

1231
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 3: some jacked up stuff that mentalities, but these guys viewed

1232
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 3: themselves as like the cutting edge pioneers. And when there's

1233
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 3: a lot of progress, there's some messed up stuff that

1234
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 3: happens in the process. But I do think and this

1235
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 3: is I'm not a specialist in there in this area.

1236
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 3: I think if you would have had one hundred guys

1237
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 3: in a room just like him, in the same profession,

1238
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 3: I think there probably would have been equal number of

1239
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 3: guys that wouldn't have been opportunistic, and thought, well, let's

1240
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:52,879
Speaker 3: maybe think about this just for a moment, because it

1241
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 3: was it is pretty pretty extreme in my opinion.

1242
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a good that's a good way to say.

1243
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: You know. What was interesting to me I was surprised

1244
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 1: to hear doctor Wickman say that she believed the head

1245
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 1: was still around. And then when she began to describe

1246
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 1: to me her search for Osiola's head and and and

1247
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: basically opened up the door of like, oh, if you

1248
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 1: understand medical the medical systems, and the museum systems and

1249
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:26,879
Speaker 1: the archives that some of these places have, you understand

1250
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 1: how you could lose a head in a jar, and

1251
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 1: how it would be very probable that that head is

1252
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 1: somewhere right now and maybe it's unlabeled, or maybe it's

1253
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 1: you know, all the different scenarios. And I was fast.

1254
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: I had no idea that she had searched for Osciola's

1255
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 1: head as extensively as she had, and uh, she's fully

1256
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:52,639
Speaker 1: convinced that it's somewhere and uh and and uh and

1257
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,800
Speaker 1: and Jake Tiger as I understood it, and I just

1258
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 1: took a clip of what he said to what he

1259
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: said was actually longer, but I mean he actually believes

1260
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: it's in California at that Bohemian club.

1261
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:05,519
Speaker 2: Yep.

1262
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 1: I mean that's what his somebody in his family had

1263
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: told him, you know that it's there.

1264
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 2: But I think it's one of those things that could

1265
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:18,440
Speaker 2: have easily gotten lost in the archives.

1266
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1267
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 2: I think it could be sitting on a shelf in

1268
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 2: a museum somewhere and people just just wouldn't know it.

1269
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 6: Yet or accidentally gotten thrown away.

1270
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1271
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 6: I think that's just as probable.

1272
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 1: Or I thought it was pretty a valid point that

1273
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: what if you're Duke University and you know you have it,

1274
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 1: and you know that if you come out with it

1275
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four that you are going to be

1276
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 1: just lambastard by the world. How did you get this?

1277
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: Why have you not told this until now? And it's

1278
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 1: like this will never be known that we had this,

1279
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: you know some you know something like that.

1280
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:58,759
Speaker 2: It's doctor Whedon all over again.

1281
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you have the whereabouts of this this

1282
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: artifact called.

1283
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 2: The seminoles of Florida yep, and.

1284
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 3: The music to Unsolved Mystery.

1285
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 6: In my entire.

1286
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: Well, uh yeah, So Josh, what was your favorite part?

1287
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 2: I thought it was fascinating just the story of of

1288
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 2: how they treated those Indians in Charleston. I mean, taking

1289
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 2: them to a play. I mean, that's crazy. It's it's

1290
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 2: weird to me. It's always a fascinating to me, the

1291
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:44,639
Speaker 2: dichotomy of how people treat some of these prisoners and

1292
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 2: that that they're respected and and while at the same

1293
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 2: time there they're criminals. I was I recently talked with

1294
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 2: a I was talking with a with a judge and uh,

1295
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 2: he was talking about he used the term and I

1296
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 2: can't remember the exact term, but basically.

1297
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 1: Were you were you in court?

1298
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 2: I'm not allowed to say, but he talked about people

1299
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 2: who who were good people who committed crimes, and then

1300
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 2: you had people who were clearly just bad people who

1301
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 2: committed crimes, and how the jury would often treat these

1302
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 2: criminals had they done you know what, I mean, maybe

1303
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 2: done the same thing, but been lenient with one and

1304
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 2: hard on the other. And I think about, you know,

1305
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 2: this guy who really I mean, he really just wanted

1306
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 2: to protect his land and his people. It wasn't like

1307
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:44,640
Speaker 2: he was a terrorist and going and committing acts in

1308
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 2: New York City, but he was wanting to and and

1309
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 2: people could could sympathize with that. And so I think

1310
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 2: that that produced this this you know definitely, you know,

1311
01:13:56,200 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 2: being in a prison in in in Florida, lice and

1312
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 2: measles and all this stuff, and then being moved to

1313
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:07,719
Speaker 2: better conditions than Charleston, and then you know, being taken

1314
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 2: to place in town, and it's just it's interesting to

1315
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 2: me to see that dichotomy of how how he was

1316
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 2: treated and then and then you know, just dying from

1317
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 2: an infection. You know, who's to say, Who's to say

1318
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 2: had he lived, what would have happened to him?

1319
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, who knows. I think guys like that

1320
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: have would have a hard time living after defeat.

1321
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 2: Yep, he probably would have slipped into oblivion somewhere like

1322
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 2: Daniel Boone, you know what I mean. Daniel Boom was

1323
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 2: famous at one time.

1324
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 1: But but I think a guy like Ostiola, and this

1325
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 1: is why we're still talking about him, is he was

1326
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: so he so didn't have a plan B right that

1327
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 1: I think if they had took him to Florida, or

1328
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 1: they had took n taken him to Oklahoma. I mean,

1329
01:14:55,760 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: I don't just something would have happened like what I mean,

1330
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 1: he just would have died there because.

1331
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 2: He Oh yeah, it would have taken the life out

1332
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 2: of him.

1333
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 1: Well I'm saying he would have.

1334
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 2: Or you think there would have been an uprising?

1335
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I just think that just was like

1336
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: where he was at. But Misty, what was your favorite part? Well?

1337
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 6: I thought, I'm so sorry.

1338
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: You thought we already talked.

1339
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 6: I did. I wasn't planning to say anything else that

1340
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 6: sometimes I have to prepare. That's fine, I thought that

1341
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 6: I did.

1342
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 7: I will just say I did think that what Patricia

1343
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 7: did with the play was pretty incredible that she went

1344
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,599
Speaker 7: and wrote it all down and and then had them

1345
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 7: come and read it.

1346
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:41,559
Speaker 6: I was just like, this woman's very hard.

1347
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish, I wish we could have Patricia.

1348
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: It would be awful.

1349
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,640
Speaker 2: Chain I actually got to talk to her on the

1350
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 2: phone a little bit, and she is everything that you

1351
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:55,800
Speaker 2: hear on the on the podcast.

1352
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 6: She would have definitely want.

1353
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 3: School trivia.

1354
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 1: Wow.

1355
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yep.

1356
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 1: Well, hey, this has been great. This this has been

1357
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: really great. And the good news is is that there's

1358
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: a whole nother like full throttle Ossiole episode that and

1359
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: already already foreshadowed. There's no shadow a full sunned the

1360
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,719
Speaker 1: what it's going to talk about because in nineteen sixty

1361
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 1: seven they exhumed Ossiola's head. Brave body, maybe maybe maybe

1362
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 1: his head was there.

1363
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,439
Speaker 6: Say no more, Say no more.

1364
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 2: We don't want to full sun everybody.

1365
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you got a podcast. No no, no,

1366
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 1: I'm just building anticipation for it. I couldn't include it,

1367
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 1: like it was just too much to put in this episode.

1368
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 1: But like there's a whole nother story thing that happened that.

1369
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: The plot just keeps getting thicker in like nineteen sixty seven,

1370
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: since you know, since you were alive, they went and

1371
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 1: dug up his grave a year after.

1372
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 2: I got out of high school.

1373
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 1: Is that right? I'll be done.

1374
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 2: Were you there?

1375
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 1: Well?

1376
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 2: No, okay, I missed.

1377
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:16,640
Speaker 1: Hey in closing, Uh I killed this buck the other

1378
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: day and I would have brought that. I've had a

1379
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: it's been a while since I've had a decent year

1380
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 1: bo hunting. U killed that buck and then I killed

1381
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 1: another one.

1382
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 2: But let me let me guess. One thirty eight.

1383
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 1: Five eighths close. YEP, pumped about that, good buck.

1384
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 2: Congratulations, Yeah, that's great buck.

1385
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: Well, thanks guys,