WEBVTT - Edible Electronics 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.160 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:14.560 Forward Thinking, Ay, and welcome to Forward Thinking, to the 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.320 podcast that looks at the future and says and then 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:19.919 you're in the Man from Mars and you go out 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.960 at nine cars. I'm Joe McCormick and I'm Lauren volc 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.800 Obaum and our usual host Jonathan Strickland is not with 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.080 us today. He is somewhere. He's in Scotland getting his 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.919 acts sharpened. I'm not sure whether that's a metaphor or not, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.800 but I'm willing to go with it quite literal. Not 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.320 the mystical I was hoping not the mister mistical acts 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.839 because the mystical acts is made of plastic, so if 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.640 he was having someone sharpen it, that would probably go 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:50.560 poorly for everyone involved. No, I think he's actually getting 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:55.320 a full suit of male armor made. I would I 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.240 would like that. I would appreciate. Oh, man, imagine if 0:00:58.240 --> 0:00:59.520 you were that in the studio. It would make so 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:05.040 many interest noises. Yeah, the shuffling, Yeah, it's great, it 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.399 would be soothing. Yeah. Do you remember the time on 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.520 this podcast. I'm pretty sure it was on this podcast 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.480 in the past that we talked about crazy ants crazy. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.560 I very dimly remember that. I honestly don't remember what 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.559 we recorded yesterday. There was some time when we were talking, 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.560 I know about crazy ants that are these ants that 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.600 are sort of known for getting into like you find 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.280 them inside your TV. Yeah, yeah, I remember reading all 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.600 of these weird news stories about this a few months 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.040 or maybe about a year back, when just these giant 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:40.839 populations of ants were taking over people's electronics and so 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.000 and so. The immediate assumption is, like, the ants are 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.200 eating my television. Why were they eating the TV? I 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.400 don't know if they were actually eating the electronics, but 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.240 they were at least attracted to the electronics or yeah, yeah, 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.040 they were swarming inside electronics because you know, a they're 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.440 they're nice dark places where they can nest and uh 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.040 and like something about the electrical current I think it was, 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.880 was was attractive to them and and then you would 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.680 find yeah, yeah, and then you would find a lot 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.480 of dead ones in there, because you know, they would 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.840 get zapped by the electrical current and just fill up 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.040 the whole space with their bodies. That's pretty cool. Well, 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:19.560 I wonder if those crazy ants that supposedly like to 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.960 eat electronics were onto something because there has been a 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:30.040 wave of interesting news in the technology world about edible electronics. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.040 But not like, not like edible electronics, like you're eating 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:38.480 them for sustenance. I mean, right, surely not, because I mean, really, 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:40.520 it sounds like a kind of stupid idea to eat 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:46.080 any electronics, right, I mean, they're expensive, more expensive than food. Usually, 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.800 they're they're crunchy in ways that you don't want your 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.000 food to be. They probably don't taste all that good 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.360 to begin with. But let me give you a scenario 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.160 in which you may in fact decide that you want 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.920 to eat some electronics. I'll lay out the options for you. Okay, 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.040 let's say that, give me the menu. Yeah, you're you're 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.440 going in for checkout with your doctor, and your doctor 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:09.600 she looks over and she says, you know, just to 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.639 be safe, I'm going to need to take a look 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.400 at the inside of your lower g I tract and 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:20.200 inspect the inner lining of your colon for polyps and cancer. Okay. 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.919 I can see many situations in which I would want 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.560 to make sure I don't have cancer in my lower 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.600 gas ro intestinal tract, right, And the obvious way of 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.840 going about this is something you may very well be 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:36.280 familiar with. Its tube endoscopy. We're also known as the colonoscopy. 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.680 You're probably familiar with this procedure. It's a tube, it's 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.320 got a camera on it. It's inserted into the colon, yeah, 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.560 fed up along the lower tract of your intestine, and 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.960 allows the doctor to take a look around. And yes, 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.320 a procedure like this could save your life, So if 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.720 it's recommended by your doctor, it's worth getting. Probably go 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.960 along with what they say to do totally, despite any 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:04.280 perceived discomfort and embarrassment. But what if you had another 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:09.520 option other than the tube. Let's say that your doctor says, okay, 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.560 you can get the tube, or you can just take 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.240 a pill. And it works like this. You swallow a 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:21.080 clear plastic capsule containing a camera and an LED, and 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:26.040 this ingested imaging device can travel through your entire gi tract, 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.960 taking thousands of pictures as it goes along, and then 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.760 transmitting those pictures wirelessly to a receiver device worn on 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.880 the outside of the body. Now, the crazy thing is 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:42.400 this actually exists, and it's known as capsule indoscopy. For 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.159 many patients, it is obviously a much less troubling proposition 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.920 than tube in discopy. Well, and it's also a hypothetically 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.760 an outpatient treatment. When you go in for a colonoscopy, 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.400 you have to like get an I V and get 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.200 knocked out and spend you know, twenty four hours beforehand preparing. 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.800 Although I had imagine that that you would also have 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.520 to prepare for this kind of situation too. Yeah, somewhat, 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.760 but it is obviously lower investment on your party. Not 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.239 having to put someone under anesthesia is always preferable. Yeah, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.760 So I'm not sure how much such a procedure stacks 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.839 up against the imaging power of a traditional colonoscopy today. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.120 I found one study back from two thousand nine, so 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.200 you know, that's like seven years ago now, crazy, Uh 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:29.320 that that showed It showed back then traditional colonoscopy was 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.400 more sensitive. So if your doctor recommends you go with 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:34.640 the two, best to do as they say. But let's 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.640 say we just imagine a scenario where these su procedures 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.360 are the same cost, equally effective, and you can get 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.760 equally good imaging from either one. Who wouldn't go with 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.200 the pill. Most people would go with the pill, right, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.599 So having a good capsule contained camera that can take 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.560 pictures inside the body is one thing. Um, but as 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.839 far as I'm aware, existing endoscopic capsule cameras are not 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.680 meant to actually be digested. They're meant to pass all 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.480 the way through you. Uh, and then once they go 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:11.800 outside the digestive system intact there you know you, yeah, 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.440 you Typically you don't have to recover them. They'll transmit 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.279 images to some kind of receiver and then you don't 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.760 have to go phish it out. But if one word, 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.560 to get stuck or damaged inside you, that would be 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.520 a bad thing. You might need some surgery to get 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.600 it removed. So these little pill machines might be considered 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.400 only semi edible. Sure, and and and right, you really 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.920 don't want that capsule breaking open because most of the 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.400 things that electronics are made of, and I kind of 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.760 meant to mention this earlier, aren't good for you. Oh yeah, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.440 we'll talk about that in a minute. Yeah. But what 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.320 if you could eat tiny electronic machines that could do 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.760 work inside of you and then even potentially be digested 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:58.400 and absorbed without causing any harm to your body. This 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:02.719 is the subject of today's episode. Yes, edible electronics. Edible electronics, 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.560 So as weird as this sounds, it probably also sounds 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.120 fairly futuristic, but it's not an entirely new concept. This 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.680 isn't something that just showed up in the past few years. 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.000 Oh yeah, and and every time that the that the 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.800 science news media reports on it, it's like brand new, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.840 but it's not. Um, well, okay, totally edible electronics don't 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:27.280 exist yet, but the underlying research into them has been 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:31.200 going on since at the very least, is the first 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.680 that the earliest paper that I could find from an 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:38.760 albeit brief search into uh ingestible electronics, which is kind 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:44.480 of the precursor here. That's like that the capsule endoscope endoscopy, endoscopy, 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:49.840 endoscopy endoscopy. Great words it is, I love words. UM 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.800 paper was a study of how the body reacts when 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:58.080 weights are lifted in different ways, and uh in a 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:02.760 swallowed sensor was measure pressure happening inside the abdomen during 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.640 the study. So interesting, um I've seen I've seen other 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.360 Science News site. The nineteen seventies is the beginning of 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.880 this kind of research, so it's a possibility that's been 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:16.160 going on for longer than that, but definitely ingustable biosign 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.880 trackers have been used in labs since nineteen uh and 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:26.120 and ingustable biosign trackers have been commercially available since that 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.160 is when a temperature sensor hit the market, which is 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.200 useful for getting accurate readings on a subject's core body 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:35.160 temperature when the subject is, you know, doing stuff and 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.160 not available to sit around with a thermometer in their mouth. Also, 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:42.000 thermometers in the mouth are not necessarily the most accurate 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.520 version of getting a subject's core body temperature, which can 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.199 come in very handy when you're trying to do something like, say, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.200 prevent the injury of an athlete or an astronaut from 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:58.199 heat exhaustion and a heat stroke. The technology was actually 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.400 developed by the Johns Hopkins You Diversity Applied Physics Lab 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.680 and NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center with with the specific 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.079 goal of putting these capsules and astronauts when they go 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.240 out on spacewalks and make sure that they're not overheating 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.640 in their space suits. Okay, that's interesting, Yeah, it makes sense. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.520 So that does sound like a like a highly specialized 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.679 usage there, absolutely and even in the case of of 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.319 competitive athletes, making sure that those that those people are 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.839 not getting heat strokes as well is specialized. Many of us, 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.440 I understand, are not competitive athletes. I know I'm not. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:40.640 Does competitive eating count? Are you competitive about eating? Have 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.440 you entered eating competitions? I do enter a kind of 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.880 like frenzied state whenever I'm made to eat at my 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.880 desk at work, because I'm afraid everybody can hear me chewing, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.520 and I just want to get it over with as 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.959 fast as possible. I'm afraid that I I A. I 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.440 sit next to Joe in the office. You guys, and 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.800 uh and I've never heard you chew, so your relatively 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.040 what have you heard meet to electronics because that can 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.480 get you. Oh yeah, that's much crunch here. Okay, So 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.560 this kind of work has only been the beginning. Yeah, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.520 uh there, there's been a huge body of this kind 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.320 of research, and we wanted to talk specifically about the 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.520 work of one Christopher Bettinger, who has done just a 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.440 lot of really great thought and writing about this. Yeah, 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.400 he showed up on on this topic recently. So he's 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:27.440 a Carnegie Melon professor, Christopher Beninger, and he's he's worked 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.800 with the idea of edible electronics for a while now. 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.520 So he imagines, for instance, a sensor that you could 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.160 swallow that would be able to monitor the state of 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:40.079 your gut by looking at the state of your microbiome 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.400 or checking for signs of g I problems like Crohn's 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:47.160 disease or or bacterial infections in the gut, Or like 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.760 you could take a pill that includes a machine that 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:54.040 would monitor your uptake of an ingested medication and track 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.959 how the drug is being absorbed by the body, or 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.120 for example, like a pill that contains a measure the 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:04.760 drug payload and then monitors conditions or placement inside your 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.720 body to selectively release specific amounts of medication based on 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.680 based on information, not just a dumb dose, but a 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.520 smart dose. Right, And hey, you know why stop at 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:21.360 swallowing electronics in order to improve healthcare outcomes. Motorola has 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.280 spoken to the makers of an ingestible electronic pill about 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.560 creating something that serves as an authenticator, So like, you 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.160 don't need to remember a pass code anymore or carry 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.760 around a ring of keys, because electronics around you, like 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.960 your phone or your laptop of your car would all 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.360 know who you are because of this electronic pill that 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.960 you ate. Oh, I think we've talked about this on 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.320 the show before, because I remembered us talking about the 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:52.040 cybersecurity of your personal waste, right, like, like, if there 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.520 was a pill authentication form, could somebody use your poop 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:02.680 to log in as you? They probably we could. That's 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.120 a nice thought. But anyway, going on with the with 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.280 the Bettinger's work, So so all those ideas, I just 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.840 said that that makes sense that that'd be a cool 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:15.240 thing to have, But hold your equines. Now, most electronics, 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:19.160 as we hinted at earlier, contain materials that would not 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.440 be very friendly to the inside of your body, especially 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.200 components like batteries, which often contain chemicals that are just 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.400 intrinsically toxic. You don't want to menu. And if one 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.280 of these toxic batteries get stuck in your GI tract 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.040 and does not pass through, this is a problem. Is 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.000 the same thing we were talking about with the camera 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.480 capsule earlier, Like it's fine if it just passes through 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.720 as normal. If it were to get stuck or something 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.000 that would be bad, you might need surgery. But this 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.800 is why so people in this field have been looking 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:54.240 towards ideas of using digestible or biodegradable materials to make 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.680 these edible electronics out of like making the electronics themselves 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.640 inherently endly to your body. So Bettinger authored a review 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.920 in a issue of Trends in Biotechnology called Materials Advances 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:12.600 for Next Generation Ingestible Electronic Medical Devices. And in this 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.000 review he sort of he points out a problem with 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.520 many existing electronic devices meant to go inside the body. 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.040 How do electronic implants get inside of you? While they 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.400 get in through invasive surgeries, which is always something we 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.440 should be trying to avoid if possible surgery comes with 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.520 a cost and a small risk to the patient. But 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.160 once these things are inside the body, then they have 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:38.240 to operate in what Beninger calls challenging micro environments. No 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.720 joke will be the body, Yeah, I mean, essentially, the 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:46.760 human body doesn't want stuff that isn't itself inside of itself. Yeah, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.240 generally not so then, of course, once they're in there, 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.480 they can tend to cause bacterial infections and inflammation at 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:58.199 the implant site. And so advances in materials and strategies 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.640 for fabricating electronic devices to go inside the body could 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.680 help us avoid some of these problems. And ultimately he's 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:10.160 focused on finding new strategies for creating quote packaging, circuit design, 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:15.040 and onboard power supplies that are benign, non toxic, and 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:21.160 even biodegradable. These also on like great ideas, but are 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.000 there are there like category, can we break this down 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:25.800 a little bit like like is there are are there 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.760 pathways we can take in order to get there? Yeah? 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:34.000 He identifies sort of three major trends. One is miniaturization, 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.320 So that is sort of self explanatory, but it's a 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.160 trend toward devices and device components that are smaller but 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.160 also use less power. And that's important because power once 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:49.920 you get into extreme miniaturization of technology. Uh, as we've 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.200 seen on the show plenty of times, power is very 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.400 often a concern. So you've got like little tiny robots 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.600 that you want to you know, make into some kind 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.680 of swarm that will that will go inside people and 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.880 control their mind or whatever. We're usually researching, uh these things. 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:07.800 One of the big problems with them is how do 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.240 they talk to each other? And how do they how 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.080 do they move? But yeah, where does their power come from? 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:20.600 Batteries are not the easiest part. Another trend he identifies 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.800 is quote bioresorbable electronics, and that's this main thing towards 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.840 UH increased knowledge about how to make electronics components out 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:33.280 of materials that are transient and biodegradable rather than toxic 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.440 and indigestible like most batteries and things like that are. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.240 And speaking of batteries, bio batteries is the last big trend. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.520 He identifies non toxic biological materials that can serve as 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.200 energy storage, and this is one of the keys to 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.920 ingestable electronics. So let's go back to imagining these these 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.560 devices that you could swallow. So here's one that might 0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:00.280 follow from Bettinger's ideas. The actual logic circuits in this 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.120 electronic device are made out of silicon contained in some 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:09.640 sort of biodegradable envelope. Silicon's not gonna hurt you. Other 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.119 components such as antennae or do we just say antenna's 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.120 now when we're talking about electronics rather than insects, I 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.280 think we might like idiots. Yeah, okay, I'm sorry, and 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.520 tenna's apologize on behalf of the language. Components like antenna's, 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.680 they're made out of benign, relatively non toxic materials like 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:30.960 maybe copper or magnesium, things that are technically essential nutrients 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.040 in your body, and that could certainly be be worked 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:39.880 into an electronic component in doses under the daily recommended value. Right, 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.000 you're already consuming them. They're already in you. As long 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.240 as you don't eat a just huge amount of them, 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:49.920 they're fine. So batteries again are one of the biggest questions. 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.360 But Beninger has been working on this problem, and as 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.000 of last year, I read news that his team had 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.680 built a battery with an anode made out of manganese oxide, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.480 which is a normal, safe mineral found in the body. 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.560 Another one of those, and a cathode made out of melanin, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:06.639 which is another thing naturally found in the body. It's 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.560 a natural pigment, so you find it in hair and 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.560 skin and your eyeballs. Yeah, exactly. And in many cases 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.760 the liquids inside the body, such as gastric fluid itself, 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.160 can be perfectly able to function as the electrolyte solution 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.080 through which current flows between the cathode and the Anna. 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.879 Oh oh, that's exciting. So it's it's like an open 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:33.720 battery system that sounds either exciting or bad. I'm I 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.600 think it's pretty cool, Okay, alright, cool, excellent. I'm worried 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.960 I'm I'm picturing I'm picturing what is probably not the 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.800 scientific case of just of just your whole stomach, like 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.160 like zapping you continually until the battery runs down. Well, 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:51.000 fortunately these batteries are not capable of that much power, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.119 and it seems like they're going to be capable of 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.760 only a little bit of power, just enough to make 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:57.879 it work. Right. Ah, yeah, that that's right. I did 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.960 read a figure in which the battery, this type of 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.480 battery provided five milliwotts of power for for up to 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.800 twenty hours. And and that twenty hour kind of figure 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.520 is a good goal post that they're looking for, because 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.840 that's about as long as it takes for something to 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:15.159 move from your mouth out through your other end. So 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.320 so that's that's a good hallmark of how long a 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.120 battery like this should should last for an endoscopic camera. Um, 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.679 and it's it could probably, I'm not sure. I'm not 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.240 sure if it could quite power an endoscopic camera. Yet 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.280 it's certainly not enough to like power your smartphone. I 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.000 really love reading the work that Bedinger has been been 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.760 doing about all of this. It's it's really forward thinking. 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:38.600 I feel like we should have some kind of sound 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.600 cue whenever we mentioned the show's title in the episode. 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.640 But UM's, yeah, it's it's it's really it's really interesting, 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.240 um and and looking towards the future, but but also 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.240 absolutely describing a lot of what's already going on, Like 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.640 there's so many laboratory studies that I ran across while 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.480 we were doing this research that are using these principles 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.920 in order to to make stuff that people can swallow 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.560 for laboratory studies. It's it's it's great. And I and 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.240 I had no idea that any of this was going 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.280 on before we went into this. I love I love 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.240 it when I am surprised by all of the science 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.919 going on in our world. It's strange. Yeah, you'd think 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:20.640 you'd hear about people eating electronics, you would, You just don't. Huh, Well, 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.520 I got another one. Is pretty weird about this? How 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:28.960 about eating origami robots or what? Okay, okay, I can 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.560 I can start. It sounds laughable at first, but then 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.240 you think or Agby is nice and folded up and 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:38.440 and sometimes sharp corners pokey the inside of me. Right, 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.639 No that's not no, that's not the point. Um no, 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:45.320 but it could probably unfold and do stuff in your body. Yeahah, exactly. 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:47.800 So we we've talked about the research of m I 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:52.200 T computer scientists Dan yellow Russ on the show before. Yeah, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.680 and she she's known for these robots or her group 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.800 has been doing some really interesting investigation of the concept 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.119 of edible electronic technology. So for a while now, Ruce 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.120 and her people have been working on these things, these 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:09.800 origami robots, shape shifting robots that can assemble themselves and 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:14.360 assume different morphologies when subjected to a stimulus. For example, 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:18.160 you have a flat piece of plastic or layered material 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.479 that you produced by three D printing or laser cutting, 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.600 and then when that material is subjected to some kind 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.000 of stimulus, say it's baked at a certain temperature, or 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.520 connected to batteries or submerged in water or something like that, 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:36.960 it will naturally fold into programmed shapes and configurations. Sometimes 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.080 it can even fold itself in a way that causes movement, 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.879 like the oregomy robot can bend itself in such a 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.080 way that it crawls or swims. Well, yeah, and this 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.160 is totally we We did an episode a long time 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.840 ago about for D printing, and this is the idea 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.000 behind all of that. Yeah, yeah, similar ideas definitely, Uh, 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.439 So how does it do this? Well? How? How how 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.639 would you have something that crawls just by bending? Uh? 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.960 Like several of Rus's robots, this robot has several layers 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.480 of material. So it has a middle layer of material 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:12.200 that shrinks or expands in response to temperature, and then 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.080 scoring on the outer layers of the material determines what 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:20.560 shapes the material bends into when the middle layer shrinks. 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.960 But so in so so, how does this come into 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:24.640 entering the body? Why would you put one of these 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.359 in your mouth? Well? In the most recent research, scientists 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:30.800 from this m I T Group and the University of 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:34.639 Sheffield and Tokyo Tech teamed up to test an origami 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.280 robot meant for the inside of the body in a 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:42.560 simulated esophagus and stomach. So one of the challenges here 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:46.120 is being able to make this bending, gut swimming robot 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.640 out of bio safe materials. Right in the end, uh 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.960 they used this biodegradable plastic film for the shrinking middle layer, 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.720 and that is known as bio lephon, and then that's 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.920 the part that contracts and empowers the movement, and then 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.080 the structural material, the outer material was made out of 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:10.159 dehydrated pig intestine a k a. The natural casing in 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:12.639 your sausage. Yeah yeah, that sounds really gross right up 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.440 until you think about how delicious sausages are and you 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.160 know that crispy coating on the outside natural pig intestine, 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:21.760 that's right. Oh yeah, so it's one of my favorite things. 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:26.280 On your charcuterie board. There may be a robot, especially 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.360 prepared by your chef for you for your stomach purposes. 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:33.240 But what would it do? Why would you want a 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:37.480 biodegradable origami robot crawling around inside your body made of 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.720 dehydrated pin intestine partially? Yeah. So let's say you accidentally 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:46.640 swallow a watch battery like you do sometimes. Maybe stuff happens, 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.000 cut your bowl of peanuts right next to your bowl 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:52.560 of batteries, and you can't take your eyes off the 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:54.919 season finale of The Bachelor. Oh my god, what are 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.440 they gonna say next? And so you accidentally tossed down 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:01.879 a fistful of toxic battery discs. This is something, this 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.440 is something that's happened in your house before. Yeah. No, 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:07.240 I can't say that that I've ever watched The Bachelor. 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:12.480 I have eaten batteries and sometimes, uh it's crazy, but 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:17.280 apparently I've read that this happens around thirty times a 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:20.240 year in the United States. I think primarily in young 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:24.359 children who don't know better than to not eat batteries. 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.679 Is candy pretty much? Sure, I mean they're shiny. Uh 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:30.639