Speaker 1: Hey guys, my name is Lemio Plumber. I'm the founder
Speaker 1: and CEO of the Zeus Network. I'm super excited to
Speaker 1: be here with the host of this show, Colleen, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna be here talking about what I used to
Speaker 1: eat when I was broke um, which is the name
Speaker 1: of the show, Eating while Broke. So I'm excited to
Speaker 1: be here to talk about my journey and showing you
Speaker 1: guys what I used to eat. So it looks pretty
Speaker 1: simple right now. He has laid out for us some
Speaker 1: peanut butter and jelly, which we are all familiar with,
Speaker 1: so I figured since it's peanut butter and jelly, we
Speaker 1: both can probably make our own sandwiches while you dish
Speaker 1: the goods on your come up story where should I
Speaker 1: say your journey? And I'm I'm guessing had a lot
Speaker 1: of pivots and oh yeah, you know I've gone through
Speaker 1: a lot. But yes, this is this was my go
Speaker 1: to food, right, peanut butter and jelly, uh Ramen noodles.
Speaker 1: But I'm more of a sweet guy, so I like
Speaker 1: the jelly and the peanut butter mixed, you know, and
Speaker 1: not the white bread. And you're a creamy I'm chunky
Speaker 1: for everybody that us to know what we're eating. And
Speaker 1: then uh, let me all decided he was gonna go
Speaker 1: with grape, and I don't discriminate on as long as
Speaker 1: it's sweet. I can do syrup to syrup. Is that's
Speaker 1: really like a real goal too. I should have had
Speaker 1: peanut butter in syrup. Have you bread? I've never had that,
Speaker 1: and I would have been thoroughly impressed with peanut butter
Speaker 1: and syrup. He would have really really Yeah, that's well.
Speaker 1: We could go in the bag and get some syrup. No, no,
Speaker 1: we could stick with the jelly, the jam, whatever we get. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you grab your slices, I'll grab mine. Uh so bad.
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard. Is it the best bread there is?
Speaker 1: Oh it is? It's okay, Yes, here we got the
Speaker 1: production bread. So peanut butter first, peanut. Let's let's go
Speaker 1: on your way to creating the Zeus network. Obviously it
Speaker 1: wasn't an overnight journey. Can you tell us where it started?
Speaker 1: You know? Uh, yeah, I'm moved out. I'm moved to
Speaker 1: l a probably man back in I think I was
Speaker 1: out here, but I can like oh seven, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, I was very fortunate to Land a job
Speaker 1: as a p A working for a show called Extreme
Speaker 1: Makeover Home Edition, and uh, it was it was interesting experience.
Speaker 1: So you know, I enjoyed myself. I learned a lot
Speaker 1: on the production um and so you know, but prior
Speaker 1: to that, my parents owned like TV networks, so I
Speaker 1: kind of you know, I grew up in the business.
Speaker 1: That was very fortunate and blessed to like learn a
Speaker 1: lot of things that happened behind the scenes and so, um,
Speaker 1: when I moved out here, you know, being a p
Speaker 1: A was was different. It was just completely different for me.
Speaker 1: But you did start as a you didn't start as
Speaker 1: a p A on their networks, No, no, No. I
Speaker 1: was fourteen, like twelve. I was like, you know, I
Speaker 1: was shooting, I was editing, I was doing pretty much,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever I wanted to do. You know. It
Speaker 1: gave me that opportunity to to to just learn about
Speaker 1: every aspect of production. So it was it was great.
Speaker 1: But the thing about my parents network, even though it
Speaker 1: was it was successful, you know, it was it was
Speaker 1: a situation thinking. It was a situation where I wanted
Speaker 1: to move out to l A to you know, do
Speaker 1: a little bit more commercial you know work and do
Speaker 1: more mainstream type of productions because their productions were primarily religious.
Speaker 1: It was religious, but it was also local networks, which
Speaker 1: is great. But you know, moving to Hollywood, I felt
Speaker 1: like would be a completely different experience. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: growing up in Michigan, just the the the whole culture
Speaker 1: there was just obviously different than l A, you know.
Speaker 1: And um, I went to college in Florida full sell
Speaker 1: and then I ended up moving from there to l A.
Speaker 1: And so it was just important for me to to
Speaker 1: to start from scraps, so to speak. So how did
Speaker 1: you land your first p A job on that type
Speaker 1: of network? I mean, that's that's kind of a big jump.
Speaker 1: It was, you know, it was crazy. I was I
Speaker 1: was in college and I saw an ad online. At
Speaker 1: the time, it was like Craigslist. Craigslist was like to
Speaker 1: go to uh to go to website for jobs, and
Speaker 1: so it said they were looking for volunteers and pas
Speaker 1: and all sorts of positions, and so I just, you know,
Speaker 1: I go out there and volunteers, see how it works out.
Speaker 1: One of my sister in law, you know actually at
Speaker 1: the time, brought the opportunity to me and I was like, sure,
Speaker 1: why not. It said, it wasn't paid. So I went
Speaker 1: out there and I kind of there was just like
Speaker 1: like it was so much going on. It was like
Speaker 1: a massive production. You know, you had on one side
Speaker 1: folks for building at home. You had all these production
Speaker 1: vehicles and star wagons and all sorts of things, and
Speaker 1: it was it was, it was massive, and so I
Speaker 1: just wanted to be in the mix. So I just
Speaker 1: started volunteering and I met some of the production folks
Speaker 1: and I was like a volunteer p A for production.
Speaker 1: So you weren't even getting paid. It wasn't getting paid,
Speaker 1: wasn't getting paid. And I'm not gonna lie, you know,
Speaker 1: And at moments I felt like a slave. And I
Speaker 1: say that was thankfully because it was like I was
Speaker 1: working twelve hour days for free, and in that environment,
Speaker 1: it was it was a lot of labor. And as
Speaker 1: I said, it's like it was like your you know,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of dirt. You know builders, you know,
Speaker 1: construction workers. You're passing out water bottles in the heat,
Speaker 1: and you know, carrying and pop up tents and coolers
Speaker 1: and all sorts of things. But how are you supporting
Speaker 1: yourself if you're working twelve hours While I was, I was,
Speaker 1: I was off those days. I worked during the weekends
Speaker 1: and so when you know, it was a couple of days,
Speaker 1: and then they asked me to stay so at night
Speaker 1: because it was twenty four hours you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So Extreme Makeover had twenty four hours shifts because they
Speaker 1: would build a house in like ten days. And so
Speaker 1: I worked the night shift after the weekend, so I
Speaker 1: would go to school, then I work on the show.
Speaker 1: And when did you work work for money? No? But
Speaker 1: so that's what I'm saying. So this is I didn't.
Speaker 1: I had my own you know, situation with my my
Speaker 1: my grandparents and parents took care of the college stuff
Speaker 1: for so I was, I was, I was solid there,
Speaker 1: but um yeah, I just went and volunteered, and my
Speaker 1: dad encouraged me, as I look, stay there, stick it out.
Speaker 1: You haven't done this before, and I did. And at
Speaker 1: the end of production, I never forget this. They said
Speaker 1: I did such a great job as a p A
Speaker 1: that the director and the production manager and the producer
Speaker 1: all came up to me and was like, hey, we
Speaker 1: want to pay you for all the days that you were.
Speaker 1: I started crying. I was like like, as you know,
Speaker 1: because I didn't care. I didn't. I didn't expect that.
Speaker 1: And then they gave me a bunch of equipment, UM,
Speaker 1: that they had left behind and they were like, look,
Speaker 1: you guys, can you can keep this do what you
Speaker 1: want with it. And it was it was it was
Speaker 1: an amazing moment. And uh and then from there ended
Speaker 1: up they offered me a job. They said, look, when
Speaker 1: you finished college, you know this is one of our
Speaker 1: this is one of the biggest shows in ABC. We
Speaker 1: love to travel. You know, you out with us, and
Speaker 1: you know we we only have a few pas that
Speaker 1: we traveled with us, and we think you'd be great.
Speaker 1: And a year later, UM, we stayed in touch and
Speaker 1: I moved to l A. A couple of days moving
Speaker 1: from l A, I had the season. I forgot what
Speaker 1: season it was, it was like five or six or something,
Speaker 1: and uh, I flew out to Hawaii. That was the
Speaker 1: first That was the first production. And then you know,
Speaker 1: at that point, did you know what you wanted to
Speaker 1: do or were you still like in the I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure it out. Yeah, I wanted to produce. I
Speaker 1: I was always interested in producing, directing, or editing, any
Speaker 1: of those types of things. I was I wanted to
Speaker 1: do more above the line work. Um, but I knew
Speaker 1: I had to start somewhere, and so I would always
Speaker 1: like shadow and look at what the producers were doing.
Speaker 1: I want to do that guy shot. And so ultimately
Speaker 1: I worked on this show for a couple of years,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, eventually, just you know, after I
Speaker 1: think season two, we ended up just kind of trans
Speaker 1: transitioning out and then I that I'm gonna im gonna
Speaker 1: take a risk and just try to do my own thing,
Speaker 1: and uh and it was difficult, but I landed some
Speaker 1: pretty cool jobs and um, ultimately got to deal with
Speaker 1: BT exactly. And that's where I was. Album. I'm excited
Speaker 1: to get to this part of your story. So I
Speaker 1: told you I'm not really a comedian, so I'm trying, like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about your story because Harry, you know,
Speaker 1: today I think you're what thirty five you You are
Speaker 1: the I want to say, the only in the first
Speaker 1: full service production company that's uh African American owned and
Speaker 1: you own majority of your company. And I know there's
Speaker 1: like social media influencers like Dave Storm King Batch and
Speaker 1: Amanda that are co owners or yeah, well that Zeus
Speaker 1: is a network the production company that was prior to
Speaker 1: ever working with them. So so I had, you know,
Speaker 1: I had a job at I was an executive producer
Speaker 1: and had an overall deal with BT for about two
Speaker 1: and a half years after Extreme. So I went from PA,
Speaker 1: do you have an amazing opportunity with BT? How did
Speaker 1: you land that deal? Though? Um? You know at the time,
Speaker 1: I'm one of my one of my good friends. His
Speaker 1: name is Brandon T. Jackson. He was an actor. Um,
Speaker 1: he was in a movie called Tropic Thunder. So you know,
Speaker 1: so Brandon, you know, we grew up together in Detroit,
Speaker 1: and so he connects did me. We did some projects together,
Speaker 1: we did some deals, um, and then he connected me
Speaker 1: with his manager, and his manager became my manager. And
Speaker 1: then you know, he saw the talent and introduced me
Speaker 1: and my brother and another partner of mine at the
Speaker 1: time to the president of BT, Jason Tibersol's me, LJ
Speaker 1: and Jason, and we met with the president. And this
Speaker 1: is without having a sizzle or anything. He just said him, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: We had a bunch of sizzle riels. We had a
Speaker 1: bunch of decks that we just put together with like
Speaker 1: we had about probably ten different show ideas that we
Speaker 1: just independently put together ourselves. And then when we went
Speaker 1: to the meeting, it was a general meeting on a Friday,
Speaker 1: like at at night. So we were like, this is
Speaker 1: gonna be a weird meeting, is gonna probably gonna be
Speaker 1: a waste of her time. So we went in the
Speaker 1: meeting just we didn't even we had no expectations. It
Speaker 1: was just like, sure of a general meeting with the
Speaker 1: president's great but it was Brandon at the meeting. No Brandon,
Speaker 1: He just connected me with his his manager at the time,
Speaker 1: his manager with sim Bad's brother, and so he managed
Speaker 1: sim Bad's career, Brandon and a few others. And so
Speaker 1: when he represented us, uh, he just say, look, let
Speaker 1: me let me get you guys some general meetings. Um.
Speaker 1: And then we met with the president. In that meeting,
Speaker 1: we showed her a ton of sizzles and she just
Speaker 1: she just kept saying, let me see that one, let
Speaker 1: me see that. And she watched all of our sizzles
Speaker 1: and she sat there and was like, this is interesting.
Speaker 1: And then she asked her, so, you guys produced direct edit,
Speaker 1: you pretty much do everything. We said, yeah, And then
Speaker 1: at that moment, she said, okay, me, let me, let
Speaker 1: me process this. Hour later, we got a call from Mark.
Speaker 1: We were driving and he said the president called him
Speaker 1: and said she's going to offer us a deal, a
Speaker 1: first look deal and to provide production services in house
Speaker 1: for the network as executive producers. And so so you're
Speaker 1: providing services or she picked up the show and you know, no, no,
Speaker 1: she didn't even pick up a show. She just offered
Speaker 1: us a deal based upon the fact that we could
Speaker 1: do several things and she was trying to save money
Speaker 1: and bring productions in house instead of working with a
Speaker 1: lot of third party companies. And so she felt like
Speaker 1: with us in the reality content that we were doing
Speaker 1: at the time, it would be a great fit. And
Speaker 1: so we ended up, yeah, signing the deal. You know,
Speaker 1: we didn't even negotiate. It was just like, let's take
Speaker 1: this opportunity, in this chance, and we didn't. It was
Speaker 1: it was life changing. And then after BT, I I
Speaker 1: felt like there were you know, I wanted to kind
Speaker 1: of do some other things. I wanted to branch off
Speaker 1: on my own and it was a great experience, life changing.
Speaker 1: At BT, didn't worked on several projects from the Monique Show,
Speaker 1: the Family crews and and you guys are full on
Speaker 1: editing this without any outside third party or Yeah, we
Speaker 1: kind of managed a lot of that stuff. So we
Speaker 1: we would we would be hands on and we needed
Speaker 1: to be with the editing or whatever. But we were
Speaker 1: executive producers that could wear a lot of hats and so, um,
Speaker 1: you know, if we needed to edit, we would edit. Um,
Speaker 1: we needed to direct, we would direct. If we needed
Speaker 1: to um do anything. We were we were able to
Speaker 1: do that and that saved the network some money. Now,
Speaker 1: who who was making up your team at the time,
Speaker 1: And I know your brother was involved and was your
Speaker 1: sister in law involved? No, No No, it was my brother
Speaker 1: and LJ. And then it was Jason Toilbert and we
Speaker 1: were we were production company called Three Sons Productions. Wow,
Speaker 1: and you guys were just over the place. It was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had a lot of projects. So after that, yeah,
Speaker 1: we you know, I went out it was about two
Speaker 1: and a half years there, and the kind of transitioned
Speaker 1: out and I just said, you know, I recognized that
Speaker 1: there are so many of the networks you know that
Speaker 1: wanted you know, you know, primarily African American content, and
Speaker 1: so I just said, there's there's another like world out
Speaker 1: there beyond BT and you know, much greater opportunities to grow.
Speaker 1: And so for me, it was starting a full service
Speaker 1: production company and that that was something that I was
Speaker 1: was very passionate about. And I said, look, these production
Speaker 1: there aren't any black owned production companies. Most of the
Speaker 1: production companies are predominantly white owned, and they're telling our
Speaker 1: stories and I just that's interesting, don't you think that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I mean the thing is the net works trust
Speaker 1: them to facilitate. They feel like a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of the reason why there aren't a lot of
Speaker 1: black production companies is because we don't have the infrastructure
Speaker 1: and you know, in place to really facilitate a massive production.
Speaker 1: And so, uh, there aren't a lot of producers out
Speaker 1: there that can you know, generate millions of dollars from
Speaker 1: a network and say hey, go deliver this you know,
Speaker 1: high quality premium show. And and you know, that was
Speaker 1: something that I was passionate about, and they were like,
Speaker 1: I helped out a few companies that that you know
Speaker 1: in the in the introm before I started and launched
Speaker 1: my own. It was an entertainment one. I helped get
Speaker 1: their reality department and division going, um in the early stages.
Speaker 1: And then there were a few other company called The Bows.
Speaker 1: I've worked with them, and um, just a few others,
Speaker 1: and then I just said, you know what, I want
Speaker 1: to start my own. So I was very blessed to
Speaker 1: have met a guy named Harold Lewis and who owned
Speaker 1: a bunch of McDonald ranchises in Vegas. And then I
Speaker 1: met with he introduced me to Jonathan Rodgers, who was
Speaker 1: the president of who was CEO on president of TV one.
Speaker 1: He was the president of Discovery Networks and CBS for
Speaker 1: a while. And they I told him what I wanted
Speaker 1: to do, and they made an investment and then I
Speaker 1: was able to launch my production company with that. And
Speaker 1: so with that investment, and um, they gave me freedom.
Speaker 1: They gave me majority control in the company. And and
Speaker 1: you are still very young at this point. I was
Speaker 1: like four when they now when they made that first
Speaker 1: initial investment. I know, my very first company. I think
Speaker 1: my first investment gave me like sixteen grand, which was
Speaker 1: like a million dollars. What's twenty one year old? That's
Speaker 1: like what I made in a year. Um, were you
Speaker 1: like nervous, because I know for me, I was very
Speaker 1: nervous like, oh my god, did I just cant someone?
Speaker 1: Am I gonna lose all their money? You know, you know,
Speaker 1: in front of them, obviously you're not saying this, but
Speaker 1: in your mind, you're like, I just played I just
Speaker 1: played someone by accident. You know. So what were you
Speaker 1: thinking when you got that first investment in yourself? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was. I mean it was scary. Like when I
Speaker 1: saw the money hit the account, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is real. Like I was like, and it was
Speaker 1: the first payment was you know, six figures, and then
Speaker 1: another payment was coming and it was another like you know,
Speaker 1: it was it was another six figure pay. So they
Speaker 1: broke it up and I was just like, wow, like
Speaker 1: this I didn't expect that to happen so quickly. And
Speaker 1: and so when it did, it everything just became real
Speaker 1: and you know, it just changed everything. And I hired
Speaker 1: a team, um you know, a small development team, and
Speaker 1: then the first show I ended up selling UM and
Speaker 1: and based only and we got it was straight to
Speaker 1: series as a crazy bidding war. I had a great sizzle,
Speaker 1: real in the deck and we went out pitched I
Speaker 1: had I had recently gotten signed with CIA just because
Speaker 1: of the sizzle, and so we were just from We
Speaker 1: went in there with a it was a senior agent
Speaker 1: at the time, and he was like, I want to
Speaker 1: take this out. Let me represent you. And then we
Speaker 1: went out and it was probably seven networks that wanted
Speaker 1: it straight to series, which which show is this? It's
Speaker 1: called I watched that show. I remember watching that. So
Speaker 1: it was the sizzle was just it was a I
Speaker 1: don't know, five minute sizzle. It had every component in that.
Speaker 1: The cast was amazing. It was they just now, how
Speaker 1: did you how are you able for those people that
Speaker 1: are trying to get into your line work? How are
Speaker 1: you able to shoot a sizzle? Like did you find
Speaker 1: the cast and say, hey, I'm gonna shoot this idea
Speaker 1: around you guys, just take one for the team, or
Speaker 1: did you do like promises or how did you know?
Speaker 1: I just I went about it. I said, look, at first,
Speaker 1: the person who came to be represented some of the pastors.
Speaker 1: So we talked and we started saying, look, let's find
Speaker 1: the cast of people that we can you know, uh,
Speaker 1: work with, that we think is going to be you know,
Speaker 1: loud and provocative and real and you know, and so
Speaker 1: we we ended up finding that cast. First we told them, look,
Speaker 1: we believe we can get you guys on mainstream television,
Speaker 1: but there is a step that needs to happen first,
Speaker 1: and we would have to kind of give them a
Speaker 1: visual of your life and kind of give them a glimpse.
Speaker 1: And so at that point we felt like we could
Speaker 1: do that, and so they said, okay, sounds good. Like
Speaker 1: they trusted us. We didn't pay them for it. We
Speaker 1: shot with them for a couple of hours in the day,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe a couple hours. For two days each cast member,
Speaker 1: we shot them and at church doing that thing, and
Speaker 1: then we shot kind of some of some moments of
Speaker 1: them at home and uh and yeah, when we did that,
Speaker 1: it just you know, we we cut it together, and
Speaker 1: we we put a unique edit together, and then when
Speaker 1: we took it out to the agency, they wanted to
Speaker 1: take it out and we took it out and it
Speaker 1: just it just it was crazy. We had Oxygen who
Speaker 1: put in an offer, Lifetime put in an offer, VH
Speaker 1: one put in an offer, Owned put in an offer.
Speaker 1: Uh BT, all of these places. What do you think
Speaker 1: in the entire time, Like, I can't believe it. I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe I mean, we went and met with all
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't even really have to say anything
Speaker 1: in the room, and the sizzle spoke for itself. It
Speaker 1: was the sizzle that they were just they just could.
Speaker 1: They were all like, this is crazy. You know, we
Speaker 1: gave them a true inside look into you know, mega
Speaker 1: pastors personalized that they were struggling with showing that they're human,
Speaker 1: showing the flash like they had nice cars like it was.
Speaker 1: So it had controversy to it, but it also had
Speaker 1: a human element to it that made it compelling. And
Speaker 1: these were also, you know, very compelling people. I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting that your family came from a more religious
Speaker 1: background and then your first coming out big show was this.
Speaker 1: What were your parents thinking when you first came out
Speaker 1: with that? I got I mean it was for me,
Speaker 1: it was, it was, it was, it was everybody. It
Speaker 1: was a lot of folks concerned because you know, the
Speaker 1: religious world is it's it's it's you got to be
Speaker 1: very careful, right, and so the church community was they
Speaker 1: were they were, they were concerned. You know, they felt
Speaker 1: like this could potentially jeopardize what they've built, showing too
Speaker 1: much of their personal lives which people haven't seen before.
Speaker 1: Because these pastors you know, uh, you know, we're you're human,
Speaker 1: they're people. People don't. People don't want to imagine a
Speaker 1: pastor being a human, especially the religious community, because they're
Speaker 1: trying to send this message of you know, pureness and
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're technically above sin, but they were
Speaker 1: They're still human and I love that you did that.
Speaker 1: People put them up on a pedestal that they can't
Speaker 1: live on, and so we wanted to humanize them and
Speaker 1: that was the goal, and we did it, and we
Speaker 1: did it very well. And what did your parents think? Though,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry not about listen. No, my parents they were concerned.
Speaker 1: They were like, you know, look, they were happy for me,
Speaker 1: but they were concerned. And because you know, again we
Speaker 1: had so many offers, I couldn't turn it down. And
Speaker 1: that was the that was the question. What network did
Speaker 1: I want to go to? I was gonna go with
Speaker 1: own because Oprah and her team were aggresively trying to
Speaker 1: pick it up, and uh, Oxygen was really aggressive, and
Speaker 1: then BT was aggressive. Everybody out. Everybody else we kind
Speaker 1: of ruled out, and it would just kind of we
Speaker 1: narrowed it down to those three, and Oxygen came in
Speaker 1: with an amazing offer. They said they would let me
Speaker 1: run it my production company, and they weren't gonna attach
Speaker 1: any other third party companies too, you know, manage me
Speaker 1: and my company. It was just like, we're gonna let
Speaker 1: you produce it. We're gonna give you the budget. And
Speaker 1: they offered me a deal that you know, I just
Speaker 1: couldn't really turned down. And so, uh, my partner at
Speaker 1: the time, Holly Carter, and I we discussed it, we
Speaker 1: prayed about it. We said, let's go with Oxygen. We
Speaker 1: ended up going with Oxygen. Became the highest rated show
Speaker 1: in network history, and we got a second season. We
Speaker 1: franchised it to Atlanta and Detroit, and um, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a huge success, and that really I think
Speaker 1: helped catapult my career UM in a significant way. And
Speaker 1: so at that point, you know, I had sold several shows,
Speaker 1: um with with my production company, Alpham Media, The Music
Speaker 1: Moguls with Man Jermaine Depris, Stoop Dogg and Jermaine dupris, Um,
Speaker 1: the Westbrooks, you know, Living Funny Two Sides with by
Speaker 1: Olla Davis. Um. I mean, we just we just sold
Speaker 1: a plethora shows and so, um it was a great run.
Speaker 1: So on the personal side, professionally, you're doing absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1: But I'm curious to hear about your personal hurdles being
Speaker 1: young and being black. Did you face any of those
Speaker 1: hurdles at all or did you just kind of prieste
Speaker 1: through them? For sure? You know, I look very young,
Speaker 1: so they were like, you know, people would would would
Speaker 1: look at me a certain way and they couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: You know. I had girl friends and people that I dated.
Speaker 1: It was it was hard to balance the two worlds,
Speaker 1: you know, um with with you know, trying to have
Speaker 1: a personal life friends, you know, date, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: and then run a company where you hired over a
Speaker 1: hundred plus people to work for you, and you're trying
Speaker 1: to deliver these shows and uh, you know, millions of
Speaker 1: dollars are at stake, you know. So it was it
Speaker 1: was hard and it was very demanding, and um for me,
Speaker 1: I just I got through it. So fast forward to
Speaker 1: and we need to put some jelly on the let's go,
Speaker 1: let's put I told you it's serious. It's so serious.
Speaker 1: I was expecting a lot more comedy and some some craziness.
Speaker 1: But um, so how fast forward past all these deals?
Speaker 1: You decide, you know what I want to go out?
Speaker 1: I want to go out on my own and create
Speaker 1: my own network or did you just see a space
Speaker 1: after Netflix? What Blockbusters asked, like, is that what happened?
Speaker 1: Because I remember when that air came in and that
Speaker 1: was the first you know, video on demand takeover. I
Speaker 1: was very sad to see Blockbuster go back there, right. No,
Speaker 1: that was crazy. That was a crazy time. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: my production company we was, it was up and running
Speaker 1: for several years, you know, good four or five years
Speaker 1: before I kind of made the pivot to launching my
Speaker 1: own network. And to your point, yes, I was very
Speaker 1: much uh impressed in you know, studying the Netflix model
Speaker 1: and I saw I was like, oh, this is the future.
Speaker 1: They mean, their model was genius, you know, they were.
Speaker 1: They mean, they've been around for twenty plus years, you know,
Speaker 1: and they've stuck to their their motto, which is convenience
Speaker 1: choice and control. And so convenience choice and control that
Speaker 1: was what they were about. How do we how do
Speaker 1: we make it convenient for customers at their choice and
Speaker 1: at their control. And so they started doing it with
Speaker 1: to your point, you know, they eliminated people getting out
Speaker 1: of their cars, driving to a location, browsing certain movie
Speaker 1: or television titles, paying for it, and driving all the
Speaker 1: way back home. They said, why are people Let's just
Speaker 1: mail in the DVD. Let's set up a digital system,
Speaker 1: a website where they can enter their card, browls online
Speaker 1: and we'll send out some DVDs. And that was convenient
Speaker 1: at the time for a lot of people, and that
Speaker 1: ultimately disrupted Blockbuster and then they I think when when
Speaker 1: as they started to grow and evolve and they became
Speaker 1: available on multiple devices. I don't think people saw them
Speaker 1: coming at all, and that's the key. Don't let them
Speaker 1: see you coming. You can't ever let people see you coming.
Speaker 1: And so I think they they were able to really
Speaker 1: master that, and because they kind of came out on
Speaker 1: the scene, it was like whoa, yeah, no, I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: I think when Hollywood first was like, okay, Netflix, we
Speaker 1: were seeing what they're doing. I think when they publicly
Speaker 1: announced Homedy subscribers they add and then then they released um,
Speaker 1: Orange is the New Black and House of Cards as
Speaker 1: original original series with a list talent, and then they
Speaker 1: kind of like change the game because they it was
Speaker 1: all at once. It was the announced the subscribers, the shows,
Speaker 1: and then they just released all the episodes at once
Speaker 1: people can binge right, and so Hollywood didn't understand it.
Speaker 1: And then that just generated even more And at the
Speaker 1: time when they made that announcement, they had about thirty
Speaker 1: five million subscribers and they were I don't I think
Speaker 1: they were charging like eight doll I don't remember exactly
Speaker 1: what they were charging, but it was like eight dollars.
Speaker 1: Now it's like almost, but there's so at on the
Speaker 1: early stages of Netflix, they had about thirty five million
Speaker 1: subscribers when they kind of really were talking about it,
Speaker 1: and that was like they were bringing like two and
Speaker 1: eighty million dollars a month and revenue, so they were
Speaker 1: able to invest in original, high quality, premium content and
Speaker 1: really compete with networks and they didn't see him comming.
Speaker 1: So not only did they disrupt Blockbuster and put them
Speaker 1: out of business, but they completely disrupted you know, our
Speaker 1: entire industry and allowed people to watch content you know,
Speaker 1: um that they're like I said, can being choice in control?
Speaker 1: And would you make that that slogan up? Because it
Speaker 1: sounds so good It should be choice And I love that.
Speaker 1: I didn't make it up, and I wish I did,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, but uh yeah, that just really inspired me.
Speaker 1: That was like, that was inspiring. And for me, I said,
Speaker 1: I gotta do that. I don't know I'm gonna do it,
Speaker 1: but I gotta do that, and I gotta start moving
Speaker 1: on it. You do you you wear all hats and
Speaker 1: you're the network. So how do you enter that space?
Speaker 1: Is it? I don't even know where you would begin
Speaker 1: to enter. I'm going to create my own network. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it was. It was a lot of research. It was
Speaker 1: a lot of decks. There was a lot of I
Speaker 1: put a lot into the presentation. So like my my
Speaker 1: sizzle and like it went. It was on steroids, right,
Speaker 1: So long story short. Um, I just I just felt
Speaker 1: like it was avoid you know, uh with with streaming,
Speaker 1: with the streaming space, and so for me, um, I
Speaker 1: just said, look, I gotta I gotta launch my own network.
Speaker 1: I felt like at the time, uh, it was a
Speaker 1: lot of undervalued talent, and I said that, you know,
Speaker 1: for me, I want to work with these people, give
Speaker 1: them the opportunity, and I wanted my network to be
Speaker 1: about that. I wanted it to really allow them monetize,
Speaker 1: have some creative control, and really give them a platform
Speaker 1: to do some incredible things. And so that's when I said,
Speaker 1: I gotta launch Zeus, and I aggregated a bunch of
Speaker 1: influencers to be on the platform, and then I aggregated,
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of influencers to be equity partners
Speaker 1: to get this thing moving. And I started researching different
Speaker 1: tech companies and tech folks to work with, and then
Speaker 1: you know, we just we just came together and we
Speaker 1: made it happen. And so yeah, that's kind of like
Speaker 1: how I launched Zeus and I invested my own money
Speaker 1: into it, saved spent a lot of money, and uh
Speaker 1: and and and got the network going. When I see
Speaker 1: you as an entrepreneur, I see some of them doesn't
Speaker 1: play checkers. You definitely played chess. You're you're at a
Speaker 1: different level. I'm guessing that behind the scenes, your business
Speaker 1: planning game is elite. Like you're doing a lot more research.
Speaker 1: It's not more as much flash as it is You're
Speaker 1: you're hitting the books and you're trying to see the
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Correct. How much time do you think
Speaker 1: you spend on that part of your life where it's
Speaker 1: I guess what I would say, behind the desk, from
Speaker 1: behind the computer doing your research. Yeah, I spent I
Speaker 1: mean I'm always researching. I'm always you know, studying different
Speaker 1: types of you know, things that are happening. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm with my company with Zeus, I'm very hands on
Speaker 1: a Boots Underground CEO. Uh and uh it is working
Speaker 1: very well. And um, you know for me, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I just you know, I'm I have so many ideas
Speaker 1: and I feel like for me, part of why I'm
Speaker 1: doing what I'm doing is because I feel like economical
Speaker 1: freedom is important for African Americans, being able to go
Speaker 1: direct to consumer, not having to have certain corporations and
Speaker 1: people you know, you know give you money or invest
Speaker 1: in you like, if we could understand how how powerful
Speaker 1: it is to go direct to the consumer, you know,
Speaker 1: in this space, it's a powerful it's a powerful thing.
Speaker 1: And so we've been able to do that. And so
Speaker 1: I don't have anybody you know, looking over me and
Speaker 1: telling me what I need to do and how I
Speaker 1: need to do it. And so that that that to me,
Speaker 1: that freedom, that creative freedom, that business freedom is important
Speaker 1: and so um it's uh it's great. And so you
Speaker 1: know again we're we're we've been growing and scaling the
Speaker 1: company since we've launched. We've been been experimenting in different ways.
Speaker 1: You know, we have a plethora of shows from Black
Speaker 1: China to Jocelyn with Ray J and Princess Chance, the
Speaker 1: Bad Girls of Natalie None, all sorts of great programming,
Speaker 1: and so, uh, you know, we're just going to continue
Speaker 1: to do that. And you know, we're definitely on this
Speaker 1: road to being valued at over a billion dollars based
Speaker 1: upon the revenue that we're bringing in and based upon
Speaker 1: the brand and the profit that we we we uh,
Speaker 1: you know that we're we're generating and and just gross revenue.
Speaker 1: So for me, what we're doing is working. And you know,
Speaker 1: we we are looking to diversify our programming up quite
Speaker 1: a bit with scripted more unscripted programming. And so I
Speaker 1: always ask my customers and folks that are out there
Speaker 1: who are subscribing to watching just be patient. We're we're
Speaker 1: doing the best we can or what we have, and
Speaker 1: and we are competing. We have disrupted a lot of
Speaker 1: other networks, like the v h ones. I mean, they've
Speaker 1: sent me cease into sistem and now I feel like
Speaker 1: that's that's a sign of success. I love I don't
Speaker 1: love him having haters, but I always think it's a
Speaker 1: compliment when you have a hater, and so I'm sure
Speaker 1: when you first got sued it was like shocking, but
Speaker 1: it south or what. I'm sorry I didn't get sued.
Speaker 1: They just so it's okay. They just said they just sit,
Speaker 1: cease letters, threatening to suffer things that didn't make sense.
Speaker 1: And so for me, it was just like, yeah, they
Speaker 1: approached me. You know, when you have the highest level
Speaker 1: at Viacom reach out to you, you know, and you
Speaker 1: have multiple calls that yeah, it's it was, and we
Speaker 1: have very respectful calls. I have nothing but respect for
Speaker 1: Viacom and their team and their executive staff. But yeah,
Speaker 1: they were very concerned about certain things, and you know,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know we were that much on their radar,
Speaker 1: are but I guess we were, and I guess we are.
Speaker 1: And so to the point where there networks like v
Speaker 1: H one and others were concerned about how we're operating
Speaker 1: and what we're doing. And so we're not doing anything wrong,
Speaker 1: we're not doing anything illegal, and so we're just doing
Speaker 1: our thing, and so I didn't think that. I don't
Speaker 1: think they saw us coming. But it's not really about competing,
Speaker 1: like I don't have. My vision is not to disrupt.
Speaker 1: I'm always looking to be an extender, not a disruptor.
Speaker 1: So whatever I can do to help extend other networks
Speaker 1: of the companies, I'm all about that. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like there's a negative? I love disruptors. I love disruptors.
Speaker 1: To me, they're like the badasses. Uh there's you know.
Speaker 1: I think Starry Internet is a new new Internet company.
Speaker 1: There disruptor Steve Jobs was a distruct I love disruptors.
Speaker 1: Please disrupt every flashion. But when you say you're not
Speaker 1: a disruptor, you're an extender, what do you mean by that? Exactly?
Speaker 1: I'm not going in intentionally trying to disrupt anybody's business.
Speaker 1: I'm not like, hey, let's let's focus on how we
Speaker 1: can disrupt and bring this company down. Like I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. I'm not even thinking about these people.
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking about doing a great job, giving people
Speaker 1: jobs and opportunities, giving content creators the ability to monetize.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's my bottom line is is providing jobs,
Speaker 1: is putting out great programming, being black owned, being an inspiration.
Speaker 1: So for me, I'm never looking to intentionally disrupt extender Like, look,
Speaker 1: you guys are powerful machine, Like, how can we collaborate.
Speaker 1: That's where my mind goes. Let's be extenders, you know,
Speaker 1: Let's figure out strategic partnerships. Let's figure out ways to
Speaker 1: work together. Let's figure out ways to diversify things like
Speaker 1: on urine, like we're black owned, like a lot of
Speaker 1: your networks are white owned companies, you know. You know,
Speaker 1: let's let's give some of our folks opportunity. Let's really
Speaker 1: do so you guys are bringing in billions of dollars.
Speaker 1: You guys have hundreds of billions of dollars a year
Speaker 1: and budgets to invest in certain programming, to invest in
Speaker 1: people in staff. Let's like really give folks to fair share.
Speaker 1: And so that's that's where I'm like, I want to
Speaker 1: look if we're going to talk, let's really talk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So I'm looking to always
Speaker 1: extend and take myself out of it. And you're playing chess.
Speaker 1: You always playing chess. I have a final question. I
Speaker 1: know we're running close on time, and I would love
Speaker 1: to have you back and just chop it up with you. Uh,
Speaker 1: when you look at money, I feel like we as
Speaker 1: African Americans, when we look at money, you know, we
Speaker 1: haven't had it, so the first thing we want to
Speaker 1: do is buy flashy stuff. And a lot of the
Speaker 1: guests on Eating all broke, I know. It's the way
Speaker 1: they look at money, in the way consumers look at
Speaker 1: money as a whole is. You know, they're like, well,
Speaker 1: let's see how we can leverage this dollar. Now, I
Speaker 1: know you play chess, not checkers. I'm curious to see
Speaker 1: what you did when you first got those first checks.
Speaker 1: I bought some chains. Um no, you know when Honestly,
Speaker 1: for me, I'm I'm a pretty concerned guy. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I do I like nice things, sure, Like even my
Speaker 1: car is a very nice cars my car person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I like, for instance, I got and I'm not
Speaker 1: saying this to Bolster, like I got a couple of
Speaker 1: Aston Martin's, the new ones, you know, and the DBX
Speaker 1: and the Advantage, But could I have gone gotten a
Speaker 1: Ferrari And I'm like, I think those are louder vehicles.
Speaker 1: I mean, the brands are great. I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: Aston Martin isn't loud, but it's like it's a little
Speaker 1: bit more subtle, and you know, it's it's not as flashy.
Speaker 1: So for me, like if I'm doing that, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: roll a little bit more so. But I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I have a beautiful home. Yes, I'm very comfortable. I
Speaker 1: have a great you know, uh situation. But I'm also
Speaker 1: a guy that is is very you know much you know,
Speaker 1: thinking about others. I'm thinking about how do I provide
Speaker 1: more jobs, you know, how do I invest in more people,
Speaker 1: invest in shows. Predominantly most of my money goes into that,
Speaker 1: you know, and then just my pockets. So it's just
Speaker 1: important for me again, I'm carrying the flag of economical freedom.
Speaker 1: That to me is important. Like we as black people,
Speaker 1: you know, we were we haven't been in a place
Speaker 1: where we've had economical freedom like that, and so it's
Speaker 1: important that we boss up. It's important that you know,
Speaker 1: we understand how to save money, how to generate money,
Speaker 1: how to play the money game. It is a game,
Speaker 1: it is a business, and and and it's important to
Speaker 1: understand how that works, how companies are valued. You know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know what to do when you are you know,
Speaker 1: generating X amount of dollars. So for me, I think
Speaker 1: that you know, it is economical freedom is probably one
Speaker 1: of the most important things for me, And and and
Speaker 1: the fact that we are we have put so many
Speaker 1: content creators in a position like, for instance, I'll just
Speaker 1: give you Johnson Hernandez. You know, she told me she's
Speaker 1: made more money from Zeus in less than a year
Speaker 1: than she's made her entire time working for v H
Speaker 1: one on the show multi like three plus years working
Speaker 1: on this. And so for me, that is important. That
Speaker 1: makes me feel good, like, look, we're sharing, we are,
Speaker 1: we are real content partners. We are like you're understanding
Speaker 1: your value, you know what I'm saying, Like, and that
Speaker 1: to me is the most important thing. You know, people
Speaker 1: are are overlooked from so many different things, from perceived
Speaker 1: thoughts and and age or appearance, and so you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, I just hate that the Hollywood system undervalues
Speaker 1: so many people, folks behind the scenes who you know,
Speaker 1: should be generating in more money or talented you know, editors,
Speaker 1: camera operators, producer, directors. I mean, there's so much money
Speaker 1: out there and so talent produce all of it. And
Speaker 1: so for me, I'm just saying, look, you're valuable. Let's
Speaker 1: try to get you to a place where you're generating
Speaker 1: as much revenue as you can so you can do
Speaker 1: some incredible. Nay, So you can make your own investments,
Speaker 1: because that's how people are gonna be able to invest
Speaker 1: in themselves. They can't invest in themselves if they're not
Speaker 1: making any real money. And so the more money we make,
Speaker 1: we're putting out there to our parters, to our staff,
Speaker 1: et cetera. So that's my goal. I love it. I
Speaker 1: love it. I love everything you're about, your very your
Speaker 1: inspiration you, um, and I love that you're young. You know.
Speaker 1: I think when we're young, and we got to take
Speaker 1: a bite of these PB and j's Um, when you're young,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of us say, well there's this hurdle,
Speaker 1: in this hurdle, in this hurdle. And I feel like
Speaker 1: you looked at all hurdles and just said move out
Speaker 1: the way, you know, and you didn't give them an
Speaker 1: excuse to live. You know. Um, what advice would you
Speaker 1: give closing out to anyone trying to be in your
Speaker 1: position or even get it on the ZEUS network. Yeah no,
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm all I for me, there were
Speaker 1: there were two things that really shifted and changed my mind,
Speaker 1: you know, um, from a spiritual standpoint, I listened to
Speaker 1: every day, especially when I was at p A listened
Speaker 1: to Joel Osten. He was amazing. I don't know why
Speaker 1: he impacted my life so much. I mean he was
Speaker 1: he just felt so genuine and also he his whole
Speaker 1: brand and everything he was about was about hope and
Speaker 1: and just change your perspective on life. And so that
Speaker 1: was that was that I needed that at a certain time.
Speaker 1: And then I think for me, the other thing was
Speaker 1: reading a book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad, And that
Speaker 1: was that changed my whole mind and you know about
Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know how rich people think and
Speaker 1: poor people think. You know. It was you know, you know,
Speaker 1: poor people work for money. Rich people allow money to
Speaker 1: work for them. And I don't know why that just
Speaker 1: stuck with me, but that was like that was like
Speaker 1: something that impacted me. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: I say that to say, like, you know, be a
Speaker 1: risk taker, you know, take risk on yourself, you know, um,
Speaker 1: you know, really do some research, find out exactly what
Speaker 1: it is that you want to do. You know, people
Speaker 1: try to do so many different things. Be great at
Speaker 1: one thing. Let that thing open up doors for you,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and and for me, you know, get
Speaker 1: as much knowledge as you can from you know, certain
Speaker 1: certain certain folks books, um, research online. I mean, the
Speaker 1: information is there. It's like a veil litle to us
Speaker 1: like that. So I think people just have to change
Speaker 1: their mind and their perspective. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: once they do that, those seeds will start to plant,
Speaker 1: you know, um in their minds and then ultimately in
Speaker 1: real life. And I think that I think people will
Speaker 1: actually live a life that they you know, dreamed of
Speaker 1: and that they really want to you know, really want
Speaker 1: to live. And so for me, I just encourage everybody
Speaker 1: to do whatever it is that they can to generate
Speaker 1: as much knowledge and information to find that thing that
Speaker 1: you want to do and do it and take that risk. Awesome. Awesome,
Speaker 1: Well I will definitely be taking your advice. Um. Now
Speaker 1: let's take up. There's the sub peanut butter and jelly.
Speaker 1: There we go, m hmm, no, like this every week.
Speaker 1: So I'm not even gonna pretend like I'm still not
Speaker 1: eating peanut butter and jelly samwiches. This was when was
Speaker 1: the last time you ate this meal? Uh? Now it's
Speaker 1: been a couple of years, Um, I hope not a
Speaker 1: couple of years. Come on, probably a couple of months ago,
Speaker 1: probably I'm manage something now. In the middle of night,
Speaker 1: you were like, all right, right, exactly, all right. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you to another great episode of Eating Wall Broke.
Speaker 1: We're extremely happy to have you here and hopefully you
Speaker 1: can get to all those miscalls you MS good. Thank
Speaker 1: you guys. For more Eating Wall Broke from I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and The Black Effect, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.