WEBVTT - LEMUEL PLUMMER - PB&J! 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.719 Hey guys, my name is Lemio Plumber. I'm the founder 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.320 and CEO of the Zeus Network. I'm super excited to 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.639 be here with the host of this show, Colleen, and 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.119 we're gonna be here talking about what I used to 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.680 eat when I was broke um, which is the name 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.600 of the show, Eating while Broke. So I'm excited to 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.520 be here to talk about my journey and showing you 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.560 guys what I used to eat. So it looks pretty 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.040 simple right now. He has laid out for us some 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.520 peanut butter and jelly, which we are all familiar with, 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.520 so I figured since it's peanut butter and jelly, we 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.880 both can probably make our own sandwiches while you dish 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.120 the goods on your come up story where should I 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.000 say your journey? And I'm I'm guessing had a lot 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.320 of pivots and oh yeah, you know I've gone through 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.680 a lot. But yes, this is this was my go 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.040 to food, right, peanut butter and jelly, uh Ramen noodles. 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.440 But I'm more of a sweet guy, so I like 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.240 the jelly and the peanut butter mixed, you know, and 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.280 not the white bread. And you're a creamy I'm chunky 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.680 for everybody that us to know what we're eating. And 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.640 then uh, let me all decided he was gonna go 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.600 with grape, and I don't discriminate on as long as 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.640 it's sweet. I can do syrup to syrup. Is that's 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:13.440 really like a real goal too. I should have had 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.000 peanut butter in syrup. Have you bread? I've never had that, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.840 and I would have been thoroughly impressed with peanut butter 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.920 and syrup. He would have really really Yeah, that's well. 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.640 We could go in the bag and get some syrup. No, no, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.679 we could stick with the jelly, the jam, whatever we get. Okay, 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:34.800 so you grab your slices, I'll grab mine. Uh so bad. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.480 It's kind of hard. Is it the best bread there is? 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.679 Oh it is? It's okay, Yes, here we got the 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.000 production bread. So peanut butter first, peanut. Let's let's go 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.000 on your way to creating the Zeus network. Obviously it 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.440 wasn't an overnight journey. Can you tell us where it started? 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.160 You know? Uh, yeah, I'm moved out. I'm moved to 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:04.360 l a probably man back in I think I was 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.720 out here, but I can like oh seven, you know, 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.920 and uh, I was very fortunate to Land a job 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.720 as a p A working for a show called Extreme 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:21.639 Makeover Home Edition, and uh, it was it was interesting experience. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.000 So you know, I enjoyed myself. I learned a lot 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:27.760 on the production um and so you know, but prior 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.200 to that, my parents owned like TV networks, so I 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:31.640 kind of you know, I grew up in the business. 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:33.720 That was very fortunate and blessed to like learn a 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.840 lot of things that happened behind the scenes and so, um, 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.639 when I moved out here, you know, being a p 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.320 A was was different. It was just completely different for me. 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.680 But you did start as a you didn't start as 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.000 a p A on their networks, No, no, No. I 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.240 was fourteen, like twelve. I was like, you know, I 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.119 was shooting, I was editing, I was doing pretty much, 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.560 you know, whatever I wanted to do. You know. It 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:59.600 gave me that opportunity to to to just learn about 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.440 every aspect of production. So it was it was great. 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.040 But the thing about my parents network, even though it 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.880 was it was successful, you know, it was it was 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.800 a situation thinking. It was a situation where I wanted 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.360 to move out to l A to you know, do 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:19.120 a little bit more commercial you know work and do 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.480 more mainstream type of productions because their productions were primarily religious. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.040 It was religious, but it was also local networks, which 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.040 is great. But you know, moving to Hollywood, I felt 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.720 like would be a completely different experience. And so, you know, 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.680 growing up in Michigan, just the the the whole culture 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.680 there was just obviously different than l A, you know. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.920 And um, I went to college in Florida full sell 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.080 and then I ended up moving from there to l A. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.680 And so it was just important for me to to 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.760 to start from scraps, so to speak. So how did 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:54.160 you land your first p A job on that type 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.320 of network? I mean, that's that's kind of a big jump. 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.680 It was, you know, it was crazy. I was I 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:04.760 was in college and I saw an ad online. At 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.960 the time, it was like Craigslist. Craigslist was like to 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:11.560 go to uh to go to website for jobs, and 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.160 so it said they were looking for volunteers and pas 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.880 and all sorts of positions, and so I just, you know, 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.320 I go out there and volunteers, see how it works out. 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.960 One of my sister in law, you know actually at 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.640 the time, brought the opportunity to me and I was like, sure, 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.440 why not. It said, it wasn't paid. So I went 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.080 out there and I kind of there was just like 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.279 like it was so much going on. It was like 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.760 a massive production. You know, you had on one side 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.479 folks for building at home. You had all these production 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.320 vehicles and star wagons and all sorts of things, and 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.920 it was it was, it was massive, and so I 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:45.320 just wanted to be in the mix. So I just 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.599 started volunteering and I met some of the production folks 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.200 and I was like a volunteer p A for production. 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:52.760 So you weren't even getting paid. It wasn't getting paid, 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.120 wasn't getting paid. And I'm not gonna lie, you know, 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.440 And at moments I felt like a slave. And I 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.599 say that was thankfully because it was like I was 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.600 working twelve hour days for free, and in that environment, 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.120 it was it was a lot of labor. And as 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:09.919 I said, it's like it was like your you know, 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.800 it's a lot of dirt. You know builders, you know, 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.720 construction workers. You're passing out water bottles in the heat, 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.839 and you know, carrying and pop up tents and coolers 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.040 and all sorts of things. But how are you supporting 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.520 yourself if you're working twelve hours While I was, I was, 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.680 I was off those days. I worked during the weekends 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.480 and so when you know, it was a couple of days, 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.320 and then they asked me to stay so at night 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.440 because it was twenty four hours you know what I mean. 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.320 So Extreme Makeover had twenty four hours shifts because they 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.120 would build a house in like ten days. And so 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.160 I worked the night shift after the weekend, so I 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.159 would go to school, then I work on the show. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.400 And when did you work work for money? No? But 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.400 so that's what I'm saying. So this is I didn't. 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.200 I had my own you know, situation with my my 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.320 my grandparents and parents took care of the college stuff 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.760 for so I was, I was, I was solid there, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.279 but um yeah, I just went and volunteered, and my 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.560 dad encouraged me, as I look, stay there, stick it out. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.640 You haven't done this before, and I did. And at 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.320 the end of production, I never forget this. They said 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.440 I did such a great job as a p A 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.440 that the director and the production manager and the producer 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.560 all came up to me and was like, hey, we 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.680 want to pay you for all the days that you were. 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.560 I started crying. I was like like, as you know, 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.960 because I didn't care. I didn't. I didn't expect that. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:24.960 And then they gave me a bunch of equipment, UM, 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:26.840 that they had left behind and they were like, look, 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.400 you guys, can you can keep this do what you 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.880 want with it. And it was it was it was 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.800 an amazing moment. And uh and then from there ended 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.480 up they offered me a job. They said, look, when 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.680 you finished college, you know this is one of our 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.599 this is one of the biggest shows in ABC. We 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.320 love to travel. You know, you out with us, and 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:45.120 you know we we only have a few pas that 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.320 we traveled with us, and we think you'd be great. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.120 And a year later, UM, we stayed in touch and 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.560 I moved to l A. A couple of days moving 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.760 from l A, I had the season. I forgot what 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.880 season it was, it was like five or six or something, 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.400 and uh, I flew out to Hawaii. That was the 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.920 first That was the first production. And then you know, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.560 at that point, did you know what you wanted to 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.160 do or were you still like in the I'm trying 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.240 to figure it out. Yeah, I wanted to produce. I 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.040 I was always interested in producing, directing, or editing, any 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.040 of those types of things. I was I wanted to 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.720 do more above the line work. Um, but I knew 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.080 I had to start somewhere, and so I would always 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:27.840 like shadow and look at what the producers were doing. 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.800 I want to do that guy shot. And so ultimately 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:32.560 I worked on this show for a couple of years, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:37.120 and um, you know, eventually, just you know, after I 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.440 think season two, we ended up just kind of trans 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.440 transitioning out and then I that I'm gonna im gonna 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:45.280 take a risk and just try to do my own thing, 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.760 and uh and it was difficult, but I landed some 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.960 pretty cool jobs and um, ultimately got to deal with 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.840 BT exactly. And that's where I was. Album. I'm excited 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:57.720 to get to this part of your story. So I 0:07:57.760 --> 0:07:59.880 told you I'm not really a comedian, so I'm trying, like, no, 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.120 I'm really excited about your story because Harry, you know, 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.360 today I think you're what thirty five you You are 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.360 the I want to say, the only in the first 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:17.120 full service production company that's uh African American owned and 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.680 you own majority of your company. And I know there's 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.280 like social media influencers like Dave Storm King Batch and 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:28.080 Amanda that are co owners or yeah, well that Zeus 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.960 is a network the production company that was prior to 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.360 ever working with them. So so I had, you know, 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.520 I had a job at I was an executive producer 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.160 and had an overall deal with BT for about two 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.560 and a half years after Extreme. So I went from PA, 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.760 do you have an amazing opportunity with BT? How did 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.800 you land that deal? Though? Um? You know at the time, 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.160 I'm one of my one of my good friends. His 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.480 name is Brandon T. Jackson. He was an actor. Um, 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.320 he was in a movie called Tropic Thunder. So you know, 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.920 so Brandon, you know, we grew up together in Detroit, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.040 and so he connects did me. We did some projects together, 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.880 we did some deals, um, and then he connected me 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.440 with his manager, and his manager became my manager. And 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.160 then you know, he saw the talent and introduced me 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.760 and my brother and another partner of mine at the 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.400 time to the president of BT, Jason Tibersol's me, LJ 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.080 and Jason, and we met with the president. And this 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.240 is without having a sizzle or anything. He just said him, no, no, no, no. 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:24.800 We had a bunch of sizzle riels. We had a 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:26.880 bunch of decks that we just put together with like 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.600 we had about probably ten different show ideas that we 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.319 just independently put together ourselves. And then when we went 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.560 to the meeting, it was a general meeting on a Friday, 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.200 like at at night. So we were like, this is 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.480 gonna be a weird meeting, is gonna probably gonna be 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:40.800 a waste of her time. So we went in the 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.880 meeting just we didn't even we had no expectations. It 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:45.440 was just like, sure of a general meeting with the 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.520 president's great but it was Brandon at the meeting. No Brandon, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.640 He just connected me with his his manager at the time, 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.280 his manager with sim Bad's brother, and so he managed 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.840 sim Bad's career, Brandon and a few others. And so 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.000 when he represented us, uh, he just say, look, let 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.199 me let me get you guys some general meetings. Um. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.360 And then we met with the president. In that meeting, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.800 we showed her a ton of sizzles and she just 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:09.240 she just kept saying, let me see that one, let 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.600 me see that. And she watched all of our sizzles 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.439 and she sat there and was like, this is interesting. 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.160 And then she asked her, so, you guys produced direct edit, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.880 you pretty much do everything. We said, yeah, And then 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.320 at that moment, she said, okay, me, let me, let 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.280 me process this. Hour later, we got a call from Mark. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.199 We were driving and he said the president called him 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:30.640 and said she's going to offer us a deal, a 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.320 first look deal and to provide production services in house 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.360 for the network as executive producers. And so so you're 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.120 providing services or she picked up the show and you know, no, no, 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.480 she didn't even pick up a show. She just offered 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.600 us a deal based upon the fact that we could 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.959 do several things and she was trying to save money 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.640 and bring productions in house instead of working with a 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.280 lot of third party companies. And so she felt like 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.319 with us in the reality content that we were doing 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.840 at the time, it would be a great fit. And 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.720 so we ended up, yeah, signing the deal. You know, 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.280 we didn't even negotiate. It was just like, let's take 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.840 this opportunity, in this chance, and we didn't. It was 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:14.160 it was life changing. And then after BT, I I 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.920 felt like there were you know, I wanted to kind 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:18.640 of do some other things. I wanted to branch off 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.280 on my own and it was a great experience, life changing. 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:26.160 At BT, didn't worked on several projects from the Monique Show, 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.840 the Family crews and and you guys are full on 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.080 editing this without any outside third party or Yeah, we 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.320 kind of managed a lot of that stuff. So we 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:36.400 we would we would be hands on and we needed 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:38.960 to be with the editing or whatever. But we were 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.920 executive producers that could wear a lot of hats and so, um, 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:44.920 you know, if we needed to edit, we would edit. Um, 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.520 we needed to direct, we would direct. If we needed 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.760 to um do anything. We were we were able to 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.040 do that and that saved the network some money. Now, 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:55.920 who who was making up your team at the time, 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.000 And I know your brother was involved and was your 0:11:58.000 --> 0:11:59.800 sister in law involved? No, No No, it was my brother 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.160 and LJ. And then it was Jason Toilbert and we 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.000 were we were production company called Three Sons Productions. Wow, 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:12.160 and you guys were just over the place. It was. Yeah, 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.880 we had a lot of projects. So after that, yeah, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.719 we you know, I went out it was about two 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.000 and a half years there, and the kind of transitioned 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.560 out and I just said, you know, I recognized that 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.600 there are so many of the networks you know that 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:30.679 wanted you know, you know, primarily African American content, and 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.480 so I just said, there's there's another like world out 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:38.960 there beyond BT and you know, much greater opportunities to grow. 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.840 And so for me, it was starting a full service 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.680 production company and that that was something that I was 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.199 was very passionate about. And I said, look, these production 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.480 there aren't any black owned production companies. Most of the 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.040 production companies are predominantly white owned, and they're telling our 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.240 stories and I just that's interesting, don't you think that? Yeah, 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.640 because I mean the thing is the net works trust 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.680 them to facilitate. They feel like a lot of a 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.120 lot of the reason why there aren't a lot of 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:10.959 black production companies is because we don't have the infrastructure 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:16.280 and you know, in place to really facilitate a massive production. 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.160 And so, uh, there aren't a lot of producers out 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.800 there that can you know, generate millions of dollars from 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.640 a network and say hey, go deliver this you know, 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.680 high quality premium show. And and you know, that was 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.480 something that I was passionate about, and they were like, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.640 I helped out a few companies that that you know 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:37.800 in the in the introm before I started and launched 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.520 my own. It was an entertainment one. I helped get 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.679 their reality department and division going, um in the early stages. 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.400 And then there were a few other company called The Bows. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.360 I've worked with them, and um, just a few others, 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.400 and then I just said, you know what, I want 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.760 to start my own. So I was very blessed to 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.120 have met a guy named Harold Lewis and who owned 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.920 a bunch of McDonald ranchises in Vegas. And then I 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.880 met with he introduced me to Jonathan Rodgers, who was 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.600 the president of who was CEO on president of TV one. 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.000 He was the president of Discovery Networks and CBS for 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:12.480 a while. And they I told him what I wanted 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.559 to do, and they made an investment and then I 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.840 was able to launch my production company with that. And 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.320 so with that investment, and um, they gave me freedom. 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.720 They gave me majority control in the company. And and 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.120 you are still very young at this point. I was 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.080 like four when they now when they made that first 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.640 initial investment. I know, my very first company. I think 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.800 my first investment gave me like sixteen grand, which was 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:38.920 like a million dollars. What's twenty one year old? That's 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.360 like what I made in a year. Um, were you 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.600 like nervous, because I know for me, I was very 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.560 nervous like, oh my god, did I just cant someone? 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.240 Am I gonna lose all their money? You know, you know, 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:51.000 in front of them, obviously you're not saying this, but 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.320 in your mind, you're like, I just played I just 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.200 played someone by accident. You know. So what were you 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.680 thinking when you got that first investment in yourself? Yeah? 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.200 I was. I mean it was scary. Like when I 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.400 saw the money hit the account, I was like, oh, 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.560 this is real. Like I was like, and it was 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.720 the first payment was you know, six figures, and then 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.600 another payment was coming and it was another like you know, 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.520 it was it was another six figure pay. So they 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.320 broke it up and I was just like, wow, like 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.960 this I didn't expect that to happen so quickly. And 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.600 and so when it did, it everything just became real 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.040 and you know, it just changed everything. And I hired 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.240 a team, um you know, a small development team, and 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:37.200 then the first show I ended up selling UM and 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.360 and based only and we got it was straight to 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.520 series as a crazy bidding war. I had a great sizzle, 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.200 real in the deck and we went out pitched I 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:49.880 had I had recently gotten signed with CIA just because 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.320 of the sizzle, and so we were just from We 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.960 went in there with a it was a senior agent 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.680 at the time, and he was like, I want to 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.480 take this out. Let me represent you. And then we 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.880 went out and it was probably seven networks that wanted 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.080 it straight to series, which which show is this? It's 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:12.280 called I watched that show. I remember watching that. So 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.920 it was the sizzle was just it was a I 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.880 don't know, five minute sizzle. It had every component in that. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.680 The cast was amazing. It was they just now, how 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.320 did you how are you able for those people that 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.080 are trying to get into your line work? How are 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.720 you able to shoot a sizzle? Like did you find 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.880 the cast and say, hey, I'm gonna shoot this idea 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.480 around you guys, just take one for the team, or 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.120 did you do like promises or how did you know? 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.640 I just I went about it. I said, look, at first, 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.520 the person who came to be represented some of the pastors. 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.040 So we talked and we started saying, look, let's find 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.880 the cast of people that we can you know, uh, 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.160 work with, that we think is going to be you know, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.440 loud and provocative and real and you know, and so 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.120 we we ended up finding that cast. First we told them, look, 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.840 we believe we can get you guys on mainstream television, 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:03.840 but there is a step that needs to happen first, 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:05.680 and we would have to kind of give them a 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.920 visual of your life and kind of give them a glimpse. 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.640 And so at that point we felt like we could 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:13.840 do that, and so they said, okay, sounds good. Like 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.800 they trusted us. We didn't pay them for it. We 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.920 shot with them for a couple of hours in the day, 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.520 maybe maybe a couple hours. For two days each cast member, 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.919 we shot them and at church doing that thing, and 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.760 then we shot kind of some of some moments of 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.680 them at home and uh and yeah, when we did that, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.679 it just you know, we we cut it together, and 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.320 we we put a unique edit together, and then when 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.119 we took it out to the agency, they wanted to 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:41.480 take it out and we took it out and it 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.880 just it just it was crazy. We had Oxygen who 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.520 put in an offer, Lifetime put in an offer, VH 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.639 one put in an offer, Owned put in an offer. 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.480 Uh BT, all of these places. What do you think 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.520 in the entire time, Like, I can't believe it. I 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.200 couldn't believe I mean, we went and met with all 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:57.879 I mean, I didn't even really have to say anything 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.040 in the room, and the sizzle spoke for itself. It 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.640 was the sizzle that they were just they just could. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.359 They were all like, this is crazy. You know, we 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:09.359 gave them a true inside look into you know, mega 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.760 pastors personalized that they were struggling with showing that they're human, 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.000 showing the flash like they had nice cars like it was. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.960 So it had controversy to it, but it also had 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.600 a human element to it that made it compelling. And 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.080 these were also, you know, very compelling people. I think 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.480 it's interesting that your family came from a more religious 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:34.000 background and then your first coming out big show was this. 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.360 What were your parents thinking when you first came out 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:42.040 with that? I got I mean it was for me, 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.960 it was, it was, it was, it was everybody. It 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.080 was a lot of folks concerned because you know, the 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:53.760 religious world is it's it's it's you got to be 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:59.000 very careful, right, and so the church community was they 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.359 were they were, they were concerned. You know, they felt 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.240 like this could potentially jeopardize what they've built, showing too 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.919 much of their personal lives which people haven't seen before. 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:15.119 Because these pastors you know, uh, you know, we're you're human, 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:19.240 they're people. People don't. People don't want to imagine a 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.200 pastor being a human, especially the religious community, because they're 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.800 trying to send this message of you know, pureness and 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.240 you know, we're we're technically above sin, but they were 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.800 They're still human and I love that you did that. 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.280 People put them up on a pedestal that they can't 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.320 live on, and so we wanted to humanize them and 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.080 that was the goal, and we did it, and we 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.560 did it very well. And what did your parents think? Though, 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.480 I'm sorry not about listen. No, my parents they were concerned. 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:47.320 They were like, you know, look, they were happy for me, 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.560 but they were concerned. And because you know, again we 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.800 had so many offers, I couldn't turn it down. And 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.720 that was the that was the question. What network did 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:57.800 I want to go to? I was gonna go with 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.840 own because Oprah and her team were aggresively trying to 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:05.480 pick it up, and uh, Oxygen was really aggressive, and 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.439 then BT was aggressive. Everybody out. Everybody else we kind 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:10.520 of ruled out, and it would just kind of we 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.879 narrowed it down to those three, and Oxygen came in 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.520 with an amazing offer. They said they would let me 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.560 run it my production company, and they weren't gonna attach 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.840 any other third party companies too, you know, manage me 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:24.560 and my company. It was just like, we're gonna let 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.160 you produce it. We're gonna give you the budget. And 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.080 they offered me a deal that you know, I just 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.240 couldn't really turned down. And so, uh, my partner at 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.040 the time, Holly Carter, and I we discussed it, we 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.000 prayed about it. We said, let's go with Oxygen. We 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.440 ended up going with Oxygen. Became the highest rated show 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.399 in network history, and we got a second season. We 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.240 franchised it to Atlanta and Detroit, and um, yeah, it was. 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.160 It was a huge success, and that really I think 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.439 helped catapult my career UM in a significant way. And 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.320 so at that point, you know, I had sold several shows, 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.240 um with with my production company, Alpham Media, The Music 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:03.440 Moguls with Man Jermaine Depris, Stoop Dogg and Jermaine dupris, Um, 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.280 the Westbrooks, you know, Living Funny Two Sides with by 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:09.920 Olla Davis. Um. I mean, we just we just sold 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.760 a plethora shows and so, um it was a great run. 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:20.600 So on the personal side, professionally, you're doing absolutely amazing. 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.880 But I'm curious to hear about your personal hurdles being 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:29.119 young and being black. Did you face any of those 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.240 hurdles at all or did you just kind of prieste 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.000 through them? For sure? You know, I look very young, 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.000 so they were like, you know, people would would would 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.439 look at me a certain way and they couldn't believe it. 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.200 You know. I had girl friends and people that I dated. 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.880 It was it was hard to balance the two worlds, 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:49.800 you know, um with with you know, trying to have 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:54.320 a personal life friends, you know, date, you know, uh, 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.040 and then run a company where you hired over a 0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:59.720 hundred plus people to work for you, and you're trying 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:04.080 to deliver these shows and uh, you know, millions of 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.160 dollars are at stake, you know. So it was it 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.280 was hard and it was very demanding, and um for me, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.840 I just I got through it. So fast forward to 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.159 and we need to put some jelly on the let's go, 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:20.439 let's put I told you it's serious. It's so serious. 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.199 I was expecting a lot more comedy and some some craziness. 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:29.600 But um, so how fast forward past all these deals? 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:31.679 You decide, you know what I want to go out? 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:33.679 I want to go out on my own and create 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.520 my own network or did you just see a space 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.040 after Netflix? What Blockbusters asked, like, is that what happened? 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.399 Because I remember when that air came in and that 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.199 was the first you know, video on demand takeover. I 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:48.520 was very sad to see Blockbuster go back there, right. No, 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.879 that was crazy. That was a crazy time. Um. You know, 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:54.560 my production company we was, it was up and running 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.359 for several years, you know, good four or five years 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.560 before I kind of made the pivot to launching my 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.920 own network. And to your point, yes, I was very 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:10.359 much uh impressed in you know, studying the Netflix model 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:12.520 and I saw I was like, oh, this is the future. 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.520 They mean, their model was genius, you know, they were. 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.840 They mean, they've been around for twenty plus years, you know, 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:23.480 and they've stuck to their their motto, which is convenience 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:28.760 choice and control. And so convenience choice and control that 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:30.800 was what they were about. How do we how do 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.439 we make it convenient for customers at their choice and 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:36.000 at their control. And so they started doing it with 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.199 to your point, you know, they eliminated people getting out 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:43.159 of their cars, driving to a location, browsing certain movie 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:46.119 or television titles, paying for it, and driving all the 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:47.800 way back home. They said, why are people Let's just 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.679 mail in the DVD. Let's set up a digital system, 0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:53.600 a website where they can enter their card, browls online 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:56.840 and we'll send out some DVDs. And that was convenient 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:58.600 at the time for a lot of people, and that 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:04.639 ultimately disrupted Blockbuster and then they I think when when 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:08.320 as they started to grow and evolve and they became 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.760 available on multiple devices. I don't think people saw them 0:24:11.800 --> 0:24:14.520 coming at all, and that's the key. Don't let them 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:16.720 see you coming. You can't ever let people see you coming. 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:20.679 And so I think they they were able to really 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:23.879 master that, and because they kind of came out on 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.800 the scene, it was like whoa, yeah, no, I'll never forget. 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:30.320 I think when Hollywood first was like, okay, Netflix, we 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.800 were seeing what they're doing. I think when they publicly 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:37.560 announced Homedy subscribers they add and then then they released um, 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.040 Orange is the New Black and House of Cards as 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:45.320 original original series with a list talent, and then they 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:47.679 kind of like change the game because they it was 0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:51.160 all at once. It was the announced the subscribers, the shows, 0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:53.640 and then they just released all the episodes at once 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:57.480 people can binge right, and so Hollywood didn't understand it. 0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.399 And then that just generated even more And at the 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:03.080 time when they made that announcement, they had about thirty 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:05.639 five million subscribers and they were I don't I think 0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:07.520 they were charging like eight doll I don't remember exactly 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:09.080 what they were charging, but it was like eight dollars. 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:15.199 Now it's like almost, but there's so at on the 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:17.879 early stages of Netflix, they had about thirty five million 0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:21.720 subscribers when they kind of really were talking about it, 0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:23.320 and that was like they were bringing like two and 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.000 eighty million dollars a month and revenue, so they were 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:31.879 able to invest in original, high quality, premium content and 0:25:31.920 --> 0:25:34.840 really compete with networks and they didn't see him comming. 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:38.280 So not only did they disrupt Blockbuster and put them 0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:41.159 out of business, but they completely disrupted you know, our 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:44.760 entire industry and allowed people to watch content you know, 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:47.360 um that they're like I said, can being choice in control? 0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:51.280 And would you make that that slogan up? Because it 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:56.920 sounds so good It should be choice And I love that. 0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:58.720 I didn't make it up, and I wish I did, 0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:03.320 you know, uh, but uh yeah, that just really inspired me. 0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:07.359 That was like, that was inspiring. And for me, I said, 0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:09.679 I gotta do that. I don't know I'm gonna do it, 0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:11.200 but I gotta do that, and I gotta start moving 0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:13.359 on it. You do you you wear all hats and 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:17.080 you're the network. So how do you enter that space? 0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:19.640 Is it? I don't even know where you would begin 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:22.600 to enter. I'm going to create my own network. Yeah, no, 0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:25.439 it was. It was a lot of research. It was 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:27.720 a lot of decks. There was a lot of I 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:30.960 put a lot into the presentation. So like my my 0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:33.959 sizzle and like it went. It was on steroids, right, 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:37.879 So long story short. Um, I just I just felt 0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:41.040 like it was avoid you know, uh with with streaming, 0:26:41.119 --> 0:26:43.639 with the streaming space, and so for me, um, I 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:45.840 just said, look, I gotta I gotta launch my own network. 0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:48.439 I felt like at the time, uh, it was a 0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:51.679 lot of undervalued talent, and I said that, you know, 0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:53.680 for me, I want to work with these people, give 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:56.119 them the opportunity, and I wanted my network to be 0:26:56.240 --> 0:27:00.720 about that. I wanted it to really allow them monetize, 0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:04.800 have some creative control, and really give them a platform 0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.240 to do some incredible things. And so that's when I said, 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:09.800 I gotta launch Zeus, and I aggregated a bunch of 0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:13.320 influencers to be on the platform, and then I aggregated, 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.200 you know, a couple of influencers to be equity partners 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:20.119 to get this thing moving. And I started researching different 0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:22.760 tech companies and tech folks to work with, and then 0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:24.800 you know, we just we just came together and we 0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:28.080 made it happen. And so yeah, that's kind of like 0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:30.680 how I launched Zeus and I invested my own money 0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:35.879 into it, saved spent a lot of money, and uh 0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:38.920 and and and got the network going. When I see 0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:41.600 you as an entrepreneur, I see some of them doesn't 0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:44.560 play checkers. You definitely played chess. You're you're at a 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:48.040 different level. I'm guessing that behind the scenes, your business 0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:51.280 planning game is elite. Like you're doing a lot more research. 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:54.440 It's not more as much flash as it is You're 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:57.280 you're hitting the books and you're trying to see the 0:27:57.359 --> 0:27:59.960 behind the scenes. Correct. How much time do you think 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:03.800 you spend on that part of your life where it's 0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:05.560 I guess what I would say, behind the desk, from 0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:08.560 behind the computer doing your research. Yeah, I spent I 0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:12.439 mean I'm always researching. I'm always you know, studying different 0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:14.680 types of you know, things that are happening. I mean, 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:18.320 I'm with my company with Zeus, I'm very hands on 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:23.560 a Boots Underground CEO. Uh and uh it is working 0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:28.160 very well. And um, you know for me, uh yeah, 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:33.160 I just you know, I'm I have so many ideas 0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:35.960 and I feel like for me, part of why I'm 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.560 doing what I'm doing is because I feel like economical 0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:43.640 freedom is important for African Americans, being able to go 0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:47.760 direct to consumer, not having to have certain corporations and 0:28:47.800 --> 0:28:52.280 people you know, you know give you money or invest 0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:55.440 in you like, if we could understand how how powerful 0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:58.480 it is to go direct to the consumer, you know, 0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:01.920 in this space, it's a powerful it's a powerful thing. 0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:03.760 And so we've been able to do that. And so 0:29:03.880 --> 0:29:06.560 I don't have anybody you know, looking over me and 0:29:06.560 --> 0:29:07.840 telling me what I need to do and how I 0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:10.400 need to do it. And so that that that to me, 0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:14.080 that freedom, that creative freedom, that business freedom is important 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:18.240 and so um it's uh it's great. And so you 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:20.920 know again we're we're we've been growing and scaling the 0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:25.280 company since we've launched. We've been been experimenting in different ways. 0:29:25.400 --> 0:29:27.400 You know, we have a plethora of shows from Black 0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:30.520 China to Jocelyn with Ray J and Princess Chance, the 0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:33.480 Bad Girls of Natalie None, all sorts of great programming, 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:36.600 and so, uh, you know, we're just going to continue 0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:38.800 to do that. And you know, we're definitely on this 0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:42.000 road to being valued at over a billion dollars based 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.600 upon the revenue that we're bringing in and based upon 0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.080 the brand and the profit that we we we uh, 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:52.240 you know that we're we're generating and and just gross revenue. 0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:55.520 So for me, what we're doing is working. And you know, 0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:58.400 we we are looking to diversify our programming up quite 0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:02.400 a bit with scripted more unscripted programming. And so I 0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:04.800 always ask my customers and folks that are out there 0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:07.400 who are subscribing to watching just be patient. We're we're 0:30:07.440 --> 0:30:09.560 doing the best we can or what we have, and 0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:12.560 and we are competing. We have disrupted a lot of 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:15.040 other networks, like the v h ones. I mean, they've 0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:16.880 sent me cease into sistem and now I feel like 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:21.560 that's that's a sign of success. I love I don't 0:30:21.600 --> 0:30:23.480 love him having haters, but I always think it's a 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:26.200 compliment when you have a hater, and so I'm sure 0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:28.240 when you first got sued it was like shocking, but 0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:32.360 it south or what. I'm sorry I didn't get sued. 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:34.360 They just so it's okay. They just said they just sit, 0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:38.600 cease letters, threatening to suffer things that didn't make sense. 0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:41.320 And so for me, it was just like, yeah, they 0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:43.440 approached me. You know, when you have the highest level 0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:46.240 at Viacom reach out to you, you know, and you 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:48.400 have multiple calls that yeah, it's it was, and we 0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:50.600 have very respectful calls. I have nothing but respect for 0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:53.440 Viacom and their team and their executive staff. But yeah, 0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.440 they were very concerned about certain things, and you know, 0:30:56.640 --> 0:31:00.000 and I didn't know we were that much on their radar, 0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:02.560 are but I guess we were, and I guess we are. 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:06.480 And so to the point where there networks like v 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:11.240 H one and others were concerned about how we're operating 0:31:11.280 --> 0:31:13.960 and what we're doing. And so we're not doing anything wrong, 0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:16.680 we're not doing anything illegal, and so we're just doing 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:18.320 our thing, and so I didn't think that. I don't 0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:21.200 think they saw us coming. But it's not really about competing, 0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:23.520 like I don't have. My vision is not to disrupt. 0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:26.600 I'm always looking to be an extender, not a disruptor. 0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:29.680 So whatever I can do to help extend other networks 0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:31.960 of the companies, I'm all about that. Do you feel 0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:36.360 like there's a negative? I love disruptors. I love disruptors. 0:31:36.560 --> 0:31:39.360 To me, they're like the badasses. Uh there's you know. 0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:42.200 I think Starry Internet is a new new Internet company. 0:31:42.200 --> 0:31:46.080 There disruptor Steve Jobs was a distruct I love disruptors. 0:31:46.080 --> 0:31:50.080 Please disrupt every flashion. But when you say you're not 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:54.840 a disruptor, you're an extender, what do you mean by that? Exactly? 0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:58.520 I'm not going in intentionally trying to disrupt anybody's business. 0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:01.400 I'm not like, hey, let's let's focus on how we 0:32:01.440 --> 0:32:03.560 can disrupt and bring this company down. Like I'm not. 0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:06.280 I'm not doing that. I'm not even thinking about these people. 0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:09.120 So I'm thinking about doing a great job, giving people 0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:13.600 jobs and opportunities, giving content creators the ability to monetize. 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:17.400 I mean, that's my bottom line is is providing jobs, 0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:21.160 is putting out great programming, being black owned, being an inspiration. 0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:26.000 So for me, I'm never looking to intentionally disrupt extender Like, look, 0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:29.800 you guys are powerful machine, Like, how can we collaborate. 0:32:30.000 --> 0:32:32.440 That's where my mind goes. Let's be extenders, you know, 0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:35.280 Let's figure out strategic partnerships. Let's figure out ways to 0:32:35.320 --> 0:32:39.000 work together. Let's figure out ways to diversify things like 0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:41.600 on urine, like we're black owned, like a lot of 0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:44.680 your networks are white owned companies, you know. You know, 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:47.880 let's let's give some of our folks opportunity. Let's really 0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:50.000 do so you guys are bringing in billions of dollars. 0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:52.240 You guys have hundreds of billions of dollars a year 0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:55.280 and budgets to invest in certain programming, to invest in 0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:59.240 people in staff. Let's like really give folks to fair share. 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:02.200 And so that's that's where I'm like, I want to 0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:04.320 look if we're going to talk, let's really talk. Yeah, 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:06.520 you know what I'm saying. So I'm looking to always 0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:09.960 extend and take myself out of it. And you're playing chess. 0:33:10.440 --> 0:33:13.880 You always playing chess. I have a final question. I 0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:16.200 know we're running close on time, and I would love 0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:19.560 to have you back and just chop it up with you. Uh, 0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:22.160 when you look at money, I feel like we as 0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:25.480 African Americans, when we look at money, you know, we 0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:27.200 haven't had it, so the first thing we want to 0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:30.000 do is buy flashy stuff. And a lot of the 0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:31.760 guests on Eating all broke, I know. It's the way 0:33:31.760 --> 0:33:34.840 they look at money, in the way consumers look at 0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:37.719 money as a whole is. You know, they're like, well, 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:40.160 let's see how we can leverage this dollar. Now, I 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:42.880 know you play chess, not checkers. I'm curious to see 0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:45.280 what you did when you first got those first checks. 0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:52.240 I bought some chains. Um no, you know when Honestly, 0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:55.080 for me, I'm I'm a pretty concerned guy. I mean, look, 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:57.560 I do I like nice things, sure, Like even my 0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:00.720 car is a very nice cars my car person. Yeah, 0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:03.040 Like I like, for instance, I got and I'm not 0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:05.640 saying this to Bolster, like I got a couple of 0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:08.520 Aston Martin's, the new ones, you know, and the DBX 0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:11.040 and the Advantage, But could I have gone gotten a 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:13.920 Ferrari And I'm like, I think those are louder vehicles. 0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:16.600 I mean, the brands are great. I'm not saying that 0:34:17.000 --> 0:34:19.680 Aston Martin isn't loud, but it's like it's a little 0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:24.320 bit more subtle, and you know, it's it's not as flashy. 0:34:24.719 --> 0:34:28.000 So for me, like if I'm doing that, I'm gonna 0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:30.880 roll a little bit more so. But I think, you know, 0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:33.520 I have a beautiful home. Yes, I'm very comfortable. I 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:37.520 have a great you know, uh situation. But I'm also 0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:42.719 a guy that is is very you know much you know, 0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:46.520 thinking about others. I'm thinking about how do I provide 0:34:46.520 --> 0:34:49.960 more jobs, you know, how do I invest in more people, 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:53.480 invest in shows. Predominantly most of my money goes into that, 0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:56.600 you know, and then just my pockets. So it's just 0:34:56.760 --> 0:35:00.920 important for me again, I'm carrying the flag of economical freedom. 0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:04.200 That to me is important. Like we as black people, 0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:07.480 you know, we were we haven't been in a place 0:35:07.480 --> 0:35:10.879 where we've had economical freedom like that, and so it's 0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:13.920 important that we boss up. It's important that you know, 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.240 we understand how to save money, how to generate money, 0:35:17.440 --> 0:35:20.120 how to play the money game. It is a game, 0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:22.440 it is a business, and and and it's important to 0:35:22.520 --> 0:35:26.320 understand how that works, how companies are valued. You know, uh, 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:29.239 you know what to do when you are you know, 0:35:29.400 --> 0:35:32.839 generating X amount of dollars. So for me, I think 0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:36.759 that you know, it is economical freedom is probably one 0:35:36.760 --> 0:35:39.920 of the most important things for me, And and and 0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:43.359 the fact that we are we have put so many 0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:45.960 content creators in a position like, for instance, I'll just 0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:49.399 give you Johnson Hernandez. You know, she told me she's 0:35:49.440 --> 0:35:53.120 made more money from Zeus in less than a year 0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:56.160 than she's made her entire time working for v H 0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:59.719 one on the show multi like three plus years working 0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:02.839 on this. And so for me, that is important. That 0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:05.960 makes me feel good, like, look, we're sharing, we are, 0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:10.000 we are real content partners. We are like you're understanding 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:12.640 your value, you know what I'm saying, Like, and that 0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:14.960 to me is the most important thing. You know, people 0:36:15.000 --> 0:36:18.360 are are overlooked from so many different things, from perceived 0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:22.200 thoughts and and age or appearance, and so you know, 0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:27.239 it's like, I just hate that the Hollywood system undervalues 0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.560 so many people, folks behind the scenes who you know, 0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:34.320 should be generating in more money or talented you know, editors, 0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.839 camera operators, producer, directors. I mean, there's so much money 0:36:37.880 --> 0:36:41.319 out there and so talent produce all of it. And 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:43.839 so for me, I'm just saying, look, you're valuable. Let's 0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:46.280 try to get you to a place where you're generating 0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:48.400 as much revenue as you can so you can do 0:36:48.440 --> 0:36:50.280 some incredible. Nay, So you can make your own investments, 0:36:50.320 --> 0:36:51.879 because that's how people are gonna be able to invest 0:36:51.880 --> 0:36:54.480 in themselves. They can't invest in themselves if they're not 0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:57.960 making any real money. And so the more money we make, 0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:01.200 we're putting out there to our parters, to our staff, 0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:04.960 et cetera. So that's my goal. I love it. I 0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:07.560 love it. I love everything you're about, your very your 0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:11.200 inspiration you, um, and I love that you're young. You know. 0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:13.239 I think when we're young, and we got to take 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:15.960 a bite of these PB and j's Um, when you're young, 0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:18.520 you know, a lot of us say, well there's this hurdle, 0:37:18.560 --> 0:37:20.160 in this hurdle, in this hurdle. And I feel like 0:37:20.200 --> 0:37:22.719 you looked at all hurdles and just said move out 0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:24.880 the way, you know, and you didn't give them an 0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:28.560 excuse to live. You know. Um, what advice would you 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:31.080 give closing out to anyone trying to be in your 0:37:31.080 --> 0:37:33.799 position or even get it on the ZEUS network. Yeah no, 0:37:34.120 --> 0:37:37.799 I mean, look, I'm all I for me, there were 0:37:37.840 --> 0:37:40.680 there were two things that really shifted and changed my mind, 0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:44.000 you know, um, from a spiritual standpoint, I listened to 0:37:45.160 --> 0:37:47.040 every day, especially when I was at p A listened 0:37:47.040 --> 0:37:48.919 to Joel Osten. He was amazing. I don't know why 0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:51.680 he impacted my life so much. I mean he was 0:37:51.719 --> 0:37:55.919 he just felt so genuine and also he his whole 0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:59.440 brand and everything he was about was about hope and 0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:02.200 and just change your perspective on life. And so that 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:05.959 was that was that I needed that at a certain time. 0:38:06.120 --> 0:38:08.840 And then I think for me, the other thing was 0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:11.799 reading a book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad, And that 0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:14.600 was that changed my whole mind and you know about 0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:17.440 you know, uh, you know how rich people think and 0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:20.719 poor people think. You know. It was you know, you know, 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:23.279 poor people work for money. Rich people allow money to 0:38:23.320 --> 0:38:24.799 work for them. And I don't know why that just 0:38:24.800 --> 0:38:27.000 stuck with me, but that was like that was like 0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:29.600 something that impacted me. And I think that, you know, 0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:32.160 I say that to say, like, you know, be a 0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:36.239 risk taker, you know, take risk on yourself, you know, um, 0:38:36.280 --> 0:38:38.960 you know, really do some research, find out exactly what 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:40.840 it is that you want to do. You know, people 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:43.480 try to do so many different things. Be great at 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:47.040 one thing. Let that thing open up doors for you, 0:38:47.040 --> 0:38:50.160 you know, uh, and and for me, you know, get 0:38:50.200 --> 0:38:53.440 as much knowledge as you can from you know, certain 0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:58.000 certain certain folks books, um, research online. I mean, the 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.880 information is there. It's like a veil litle to us 0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:03.360 like that. So I think people just have to change 0:39:03.360 --> 0:39:06.239 their mind and their perspective. And I think that, you know, 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:09.240 once they do that, those seeds will start to plant, 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:12.800 you know, um in their minds and then ultimately in 0:39:13.239 --> 0:39:16.239 real life. And I think that I think people will 0:39:16.280 --> 0:39:19.200 actually live a life that they you know, dreamed of 0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:21.839 and that they really want to you know, really want 0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:24.440 to live. And so for me, I just encourage everybody 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:26.960 to do whatever it is that they can to generate 0:39:27.000 --> 0:39:29.759 as much knowledge and information to find that thing that 0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:33.320 you want to do and do it and take that risk. Awesome. Awesome, 0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:36.560 Well I will definitely be taking your advice. Um. Now 0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:40.320 let's take up. There's the sub peanut butter and jelly. 0:39:40.440 --> 0:39:46.399 There we go, m hmm, no, like this every week. 0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:49.600 So I'm not even gonna pretend like I'm still not 0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:52.120 eating peanut butter and jelly samwiches. This was when was 0:39:52.120 --> 0:39:54.279 the last time you ate this meal? Uh? Now it's 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:56.719 been a couple of years, Um, I hope not a 0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:59.000 couple of years. Come on, probably a couple of months ago, 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:01.640 probably I'm manage something now. In the middle of night, 0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:06.440 you were like, all right, right, exactly, all right. Well, 0:40:06.480 --> 0:40:09.120 thank you to another great episode of Eating Wall Broke. 0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:13.480 We're extremely happy to have you here and hopefully you 0:40:13.520 --> 0:40:17.080 can get to all those miscalls you MS good. Thank 0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:21.319 you guys. For more Eating Wall Broke from I Heart 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:24.399 Radio and The Black Effect, visit the I Heart Radio app, 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:27.600 Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.