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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 2: your weekly podcast that reminds you that when there's bad things,

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Speaker 2: there's often good things that people try to do in

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Speaker 2: response to the bad things, like, for example, the bad introduction.

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Speaker 2: But I then try to be good by saying the

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Speaker 2: rest of it, which is that my name is Margaret

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Speaker 2: Kilsroy and I'm your host, and my guest today is

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Speaker 2: Courtney Cossack. Hi. Hello, just trying to jud it up

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Speaker 2: a little, No, I appreciate it. Our producer is Sophie Hi,

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Speaker 2: Sophie Hi. Our audio engineers Rory Hi, Rory Hi, Ri

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Speaker 2: Hi Ri, and our theme music was written for us

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Speaker 2: by own woman. And this is part two about the

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Speaker 2: orange alternative, the thing that I hate as a name

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Speaker 2: because I wonder if it's Do I think that orange?

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Speaker 2: Do I not like the word just because nothing rhymes

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Speaker 2: with it? Or is it just like, am I wrong

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Speaker 2: in this?

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Speaker 3: You're wrong?

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Speaker 2: Do you like the word?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: You're wrong?

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Speaker 5: Because there's like a viral clip of Eminem talking about

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Speaker 5: how everybody's wrong about things not rhyming with the word orange.

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Speaker 2: What are some of the examples that he provides?

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Speaker 5: He does like a whole thing where he's like, uh, orange.

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Speaker 4: Orange you glad?

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Speaker 5: I you know he does like a whole thing where

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Speaker 5: it's like I want to like bring it up, like

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Speaker 5: I want to print. Hold on, Rory, we're gonna we're

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Speaker 5: gonna put this clip in because I'm just like having

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Speaker 5: a mood where I'm like everyone needs to know this.

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Speaker 2: Cool, let's do it.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: Enjoy this clip of me proving Margaret wrong about the

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Speaker 5: word orange, thanks to eminem from like, I don't know,

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Speaker 5: this was a long time ago. I remember it from

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Speaker 5: maybe like twenty years ago.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. Deep cut hell. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Like people say that the word orange doesn't rhyme with anything,

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Speaker 6: and that kind of pisses me off because I can

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Speaker 6: think of a lot of things that rhyme with orange.

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Speaker 6: You could say, like I put my orange four inch

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Speaker 6: orange in store ridge an eight porridge with George. You

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Speaker 6: just have to figure out the science to breaking down words.

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Speaker 4: It's so dumb, it's so dumb, nobody.

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of sold.

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Speaker 4: I'm so glad.

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Speaker 7: Yes, he could rap to it, but those were not

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Speaker 7: one word.

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Speaker 4: No, but I buy it. I buy it like that

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Speaker 4: we can just manipulate language.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, totally, and I admit I can see defeat

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Speaker 2: doorhinge and here I was just making it worse by

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Speaker 2: But I still don't like the way the word sounds,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know why. I don't think it's the

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Speaker 2: rhyming thing. Do I just not like the color? Who knows?

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Speaker 2: But what I do like is the movement called the

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Speaker 2: Orange Alternative that was in Poland from well, I guess

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Speaker 2: they technically restarted in two thousand and one, but like

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Speaker 2: they did, the main thing that they did is between

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one and nineteen eighty nine, and that's what

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Speaker 2: we're covering today. If you want to hear the beginning

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Speaker 2: of it, you have to go back and listen to

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Speaker 2: the other episode. What are you doing? Why would you

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Speaker 2: start with part two?

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Speaker 4: Ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: I don't even understand. And so where we last left

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Speaker 2: our heroes, they are living in communist Poland and they're

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Speaker 2: not particularly excited about it, and they just learned how

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Speaker 2: On May first, in nineteen eighty one, there was a

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Speaker 2: big to do in Warsaw and.

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Speaker 4: They're probably high.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they are almost certainly high, and so they do

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Speaker 2: their own street fighting in a big rebellion in ROTSWAF

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Speaker 2: in June thirteenth, nineteen eighty one, and that city broke

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Speaker 2: out in rebellion. But the Orange Alternative they're not against

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Speaker 2: the street fighting, but that's not their thing. They're not like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's totally what's going to bring down everything. They're like, no,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be weirder than that. So they developed

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Speaker 2: a strategy, and they actually did think very strategically, even

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Speaker 2: if their strategy had a lot of like question mark

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Speaker 2: question mark then revolution in it, you know, they developed

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Speaker 2: a strategy that was actually kind of smart. It was

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Speaker 2: called a stay home strike. Because sit down strikes where

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Speaker 2: you like refuse to work and you go sit in

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Speaker 2: front of the factory and stuff like that. The cops

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Speaker 2: had just come and beat you up, right, but they

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Speaker 2: couldn't go door to door to make everyone work. So

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Speaker 2: it was just get everyone to stay home completely, which

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Speaker 2: is like counterintuitive because usually you want everyone in the

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Speaker 2: streets to have the big movement, you know. And so

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Speaker 2: the Orange Alternative movement started going around the country promoting this,

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Speaker 2: and the major who's still underground, he's still on the list,

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Speaker 2: the poster list of people who've been arrested. He starts

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Speaker 2: going around the country saying, hey, what if we all

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Speaker 2: stay home from work. It's probable that the government knew

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Speaker 2: what he was up to and was following him with

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Speaker 2: undercovers the whole time. But also he is very paranoid,

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Speaker 2: so he could just be saying that I don't know.

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Speaker 2: And again it's reasonable to be paranoid when you are

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Speaker 2: actively being followed by the secret police of a communist government.

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Speaker 2: We'ren't on communist government, and the secret police had set

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Speaker 2: themselves up observing the headquarters of the Orange Alternative, and

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Speaker 2: so the radicals got creative. They decided to use that

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Speaker 2: to their advantage. They put up posters around town saying

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Speaker 2: automatic washing machines for sale and then put their own

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Speaker 2: address on it. And automatic washing machines were a hot

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Speaker 2: commodity in Poland at this time. Oh so every time

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Speaker 2: a store got a new shipment and they were gone immediately.

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Speaker 2: So by putting up these ads, they got a ton

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Speaker 2: of people to come over to their house. So the

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Speaker 2: secret police watching saw all the suspicious activity happening, right,

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Speaker 2: So then they had to follow every single person who

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Speaker 2: came over to try and buy a washing machine, which

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Speaker 2: meant they ran out of agents. Brilliant and they told

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Speaker 2: each person who came over, they were like, oh, we

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Speaker 2: don't have a washing machine, but did you know you

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Speaker 2: could do a stay home strike with us?

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Speaker 4: I love it. They're educating the people I know.

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Speaker 2: And they're also like one of their big things is

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Speaker 2: to like force people to become radicals by like putting

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Speaker 2: them in danger, you know, not like in front of

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Speaker 2: the CoP's gun or whatever. But like, for example, another

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Speaker 2: thing that they did everywhere they went, the regiment would

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Speaker 2: squirt toothpaste into the ticket machines on public transit. So

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Speaker 2: people would come with their ticket and they put it

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Speaker 2: into the ticket validation machine and it would come out

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Speaker 2: covered in toothpaste and it wouldn't work, and so they'd

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Speaker 2: be like, well, I guess I'm still going to get

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Speaker 2: on the public transit, right. So now they've turned everyone

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Speaker 2: into passive resistors of martial law because for anyone who

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Speaker 2: can't see, Corney is making a I don't like the

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Speaker 2: idea of toothpaste on my ticket face still.

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Speaker 7: Okay, the idea has legs, But holding my grubby toothpaste

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Speaker 7: card makes me ill.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's fair. It might eve been gritty, you know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what kind of toothpaste they used. Sure,

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Speaker 2: it's not better. And so they felt that resistance to

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Speaker 2: authoritarianism takes two paths at the same time. There is

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Speaker 2: active resistance, like when workers and students go on strike

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Speaker 2: or thromolotovs at cops, sorry militia, and there's passive resistance

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Speaker 2: like people do a stay at home strike or when

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Speaker 2: they go on public transport without pain. A lot of

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Speaker 2: their tactics were to transform passerby and observers into members

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Speaker 2: of the passive resistance, and they were good at it

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Speaker 2: by nineteen eighty two. By spring of nineteen eighty two,

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Speaker 2: they started a counter university and the major taught a

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Speaker 2: class called tactical painting, which is surrealist anarchist graffiti. And

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Speaker 2: he had this idea and he was convinced this idea

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Speaker 2: would bring down the regime. And he was kind of

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Speaker 2: like both right and wrong about it. The idea was

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Speaker 2: simple and nonsensical and effective. All over the city, there

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Speaker 2: are these paint spots, right, And you can see this

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Speaker 2: in the US, you know where like when they buff

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Speaker 2: out graffiti or when they pay over graffiti. Especially you

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Speaker 2: can see the like the paint spots. There's some documentary

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Speaker 2: that someone saw me about years ago, called the Accidental

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Speaker 2: Art of Graffiti Removal, And it's about the like esthetic

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Speaker 2: qualities of these paint spots. You know, I always wanted

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Speaker 2: to do this thing where I would go to it.

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Speaker 2: I never actually did it where I would go to

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Speaker 2: a really big building and put tags in such a

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Speaker 2: way that whenever someone painted over it, they would then

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Speaker 2: spell out my name.

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Speaker 4: Oh good way to get caught, but also cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the cost benefit analysis. Wasn't working out

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Speaker 2: for bringing out big enough of a ladder for that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I would never do illegal crime. That's

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Speaker 2: terrible and immoral. And so there's all of these paint spots,

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Speaker 2: tens of thousands of them all over the city because

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Speaker 2: people had been painting over the anti government graffiti because

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Speaker 2: people would go and write down with the regime, and

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Speaker 2: you know, and he's like, he's not anti people writing

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Speaker 2: down with the regime, but it's boring, right, So he's

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Speaker 2: going to paint dwarves on paint spots. That's his idea.

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Speaker 2: Here we go, and I'm you know, gnomes elves. Dwarves

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Speaker 2: small people with big red hats, and he uses the

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Speaker 2: translation dwarves another thing I read an academic paper I

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Speaker 2: read used elves. I'm using noomes, but I guess I'm

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Speaker 2: using them interchangeably here. And I know I've already.

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Speaker 4: Talked about this with the hat. It's gnomes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. If a mill he said about this, If

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Speaker 2: a million dwarves get painted on a million patches, people

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Speaker 2: will find strength and the government will fall. Later, armies

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Speaker 2: of dwarves will appear on the street. There will be

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Speaker 2: dwarves and the militia aka the cops. The general will surrender,

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Speaker 2: if not to the Cardinal, then I'll come out with

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Speaker 2: a white flag and surrender to the dwarves. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: they are like trying to do this thing. One night,

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Speaker 2: Major and a friend went out and spray painted some dwarves,

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Speaker 2: and another friend painted the third one the next morning,

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Speaker 2: and the first person to paint a dwarf during the

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Speaker 2: day was a woman named Kaisa, who did it during

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Speaker 2: the street fights in August nineteen eighty two. Basically was like, ah,

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Speaker 2: it's a riot on, I can probably get away with

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Speaker 2: this soon. The whole regiment went out with their regimental

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Speaker 2: orchestra in tow I think they had like a marching

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Speaker 2: band with like probably drums and a trumpet. I know

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Speaker 2: Major played trumpet. I feel like they all played music

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Speaker 2: and then they just went out with their marching band

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Speaker 2: and painted dwarfs everywhere all over the city on paint spots.

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Speaker 4: Did you get a look at some of these gnomes?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're They're all different. It's cool. Like I was

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Speaker 2: thinking to just be like kind of like most people

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Speaker 2: when you're replicating, like a tag, you just kind of

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Speaker 2: do the same thing over and over again. Now they're

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Speaker 2: they're creative. They're multi colored. Some are hand painted, some

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Speaker 2: of them are spray painted, all different styles. They're cool.

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Speaker 2: There's a not zero chance I'm getting one of these

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Speaker 2: things tattooed on me. I really liked this.

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Speaker 4: They should do an exhibition. This does sound cool.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know. Actually some of it ended up

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Speaker 2: in this book of the like fifty the most Important

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Speaker 2: Surrealist Pieces of Art or whatever book that I don't

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Speaker 2: I didn't write the name down into my script, and

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Speaker 2: the Major wrote that the goal here was threefold. One

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Speaker 2: to encourage citizens to paint graffiti in order to increase

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Speaker 2: the number of paint patches and by doing so, change

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Speaker 2: the city's visual identity. Two One ought to expect an

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Speaker 2: increase in the number of dwarves in the city's visual identity,

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Speaker 2: consistent with the convention of the aesthetics of socialist surrealism,

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Speaker 2: causing a transformation of quantity into quality. So eventually people

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Speaker 2: will get good at it. Three to bring about the

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Speaker 2: appearance of three dimensional dwarves in the streets and start

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Speaker 2: a total surrealist social revolution in the factories. And so

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Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, all right, we're gonna go.

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Speaker 4: Or smokeboar weed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, where was I Yeah? And it didn't generalize

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Speaker 2: the way that he wanted. He was like, everyone's gonna

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Speaker 2: do this, and it wasn't. It was him and his friends.

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Speaker 2: But they went all over the country and they painted

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Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of dwarves. It was cool as hell.

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Speaker 2: And one day the major and a friend were caught

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Speaker 2: painting dwarves or gnomes or whatever because they were painting

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Speaker 2: on the Militia officer cadet school in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the day.

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Speaker 4: Oh come on, guys, I know.

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Speaker 2: The cop asked what they were doing and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're painting a pomp palm on a hat. And they

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Speaker 2: were like, do you have permission? And he says yes,

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Speaker 2: they say, from who? Well, from God? Okay, And so

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Speaker 2: the COPU interrogated him. I'm gonna he does a lot

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Speaker 2: of these pieces of dialogue in his work that are

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Speaker 2: some of the more some of the things I think

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Speaker 2: are a little bit more embellished. But this one's good enough.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna include it. The cop who interrogated them was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, why are you painting dwarves? And here's the dialogue?

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Speaker 2: What do these dwarves mean? I'll tell you under one condition.

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Speaker 2: What's that? No one can know about it. It's a secret.

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Speaker 2: Very well, can you keep a secret? Yes? Word of honor,

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Speaker 2: Word of honor. All right, I'll tell I want a revolution,

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Speaker 2: a revolution of dwarves. It's a great secret.

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Speaker 7: I love it.

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Speaker 2: And so he convinced them he was crazy and they

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Speaker 2: let him go.

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Speaker 4: But the thing is, it was all real. You don't

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Speaker 4: want a revolution of.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's fucking brilliant.

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Speaker 4: Just tell the truth, yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know. And it just sounds so weird, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: because arresting people for painting dwarves with red hats and

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Speaker 2: shit just looked bad. And the serious revolutionaries of Solidarity

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Speaker 2: were like annoyed by it at all. They were like,

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Speaker 2: you're making our serious down with regime graffiti looks silly,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, eh, whatever, like you paint that, I'll

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Speaker 2: paint this, Like what do you want?

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Speaker 7: You know?

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Speaker 2: And it's confusing because most of what you read talks

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Speaker 2: about Orange Alternative as part of solidarity and as one

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Speaker 2: of the most important parts in terms of creating the

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Speaker 2: visual atmosphere and the sort of lutic the playful element

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Speaker 2: of it all. But it was also if you read

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Speaker 2: the people who were involved, it was antagonistic to solidarity

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Speaker 2: in that it refused to be top down. It always

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Speaker 2: wanted to be bottom up, and it also wanted to

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Speaker 2: be playful, and it wanted to be direct and be democratic.

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Speaker 2: Martial law was eventually lifted and the Dwarfs didn't cause

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Speaker 2: a revolution, and for a couple of years the major

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Speaker 2: was depressed. It's always hard when social movements recede, which

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Speaker 2: is why whenever I'm in a social movement that recedes,

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Speaker 2: I fill that hole with goods and services. I just

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Speaker 2: go out and buy, especially swords. Actually, this podcast is

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Speaker 2: brought to you by swords and how you would be

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Speaker 2: happier if you owned a sword and actually coordney. Are

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Speaker 2: there any medieval weapons that you would like to get

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Speaker 2: a Sophie to get us sponsored by.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, are you serious? Is it? Is it

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Speaker 4: a sword sponsor? No? No, it could be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but if there's any you know, we could we

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Speaker 2: could probably figure it out. What's your favorite medieval weapon?

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Speaker 4: I would just like a guillotine. Does that count? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: That's yeah? I love that.

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Speaker 4: Great choice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Brought to you by the guillotine, the symbol that

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Speaker 2: contains its own contradiction.

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Speaker 4: Can I tell you really quick?

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Speaker 7: My husband tried to tell me that that was like

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Speaker 7: a merciful death.

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Speaker 4: We were talking about.

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Speaker 7: This the other night and he was like, no, actually,

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Speaker 7: that was like really a great way to die.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, hard disagree. It beats drawn and quartered.

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Speaker 3: I'll give your husband that, but I much prefer being alive.

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Speaker 4: I'm me too, love it.

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Speaker 2: I want to get put to death by old age

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Speaker 2: in a bed surrounded by people I care about, amen,

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Speaker 2: or even in a fight. Honestly, it's still better. Let

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Speaker 2: me have adrenaline, let me have a chance at hurting them.

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Speaker 2: Give me a sword.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, His podcast brought to you by various weaponry of

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Speaker 2: antiquated styles and also whatever comes after this and we're back.

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Speaker 2: So our hero, the major Waldeck, He's like, I just

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Speaker 2: want to get out of here. The social movement's dying. Like,

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Speaker 2: I don't like living in communist dictatorship. I need the

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Speaker 2: state's permission to leave, right because it's a communist dictatorship.

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Speaker 2: So he tries to get the state to let him

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Speaker 2: emigrate to Jamaica for fairly obvious reasons that have to

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Speaker 2: do with marijuana. But you need permission from the state

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Speaker 2: to leave. So he writes the state, and he writes

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Speaker 2: them a long letter, and his core argument is like

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be here, you don't want me here.

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Speaker 4: You guys hate me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just like fucking let me go. He wrote the

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Speaker 2: government and said, quote, I know that as an anarchist,

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Speaker 2: authentically endeavoring to free society from the shackles of the

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Speaker 2: bureaucratized state, I am enemy number one for any government

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Speaker 2: which makes emigration an obvious choice. I believe that neither

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Speaker 2: I nor the state authorities should squander this opportunity.

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Speaker 4: Good argument.

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Speaker 2: I know. The government just didn't respond. They didn't reject him,

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Speaker 2: they just didn't let him go. And he does some

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Speaker 2: soul searching, and look, he's a hip. He will not

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Speaker 2: be surprised by his next steps. He well, he quit

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Speaker 2: spoking weed, that one you might be surprised with. Oh,

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Speaker 2: he replaces it with Buddhism and meditation.

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Speaker 7: Was he worried about lung cancer like myself or did

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Speaker 7: he have other fears?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Interesting? The impression I get is that he found I

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Speaker 2: think it seemed to like dull his spirit in a

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Speaker 2: way that like meditation ground him in a similar way,

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Speaker 2: but in a way that he felt didn't fuck with

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Speaker 2: his like revolutionary activities. He like, for a little while,

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Speaker 2: he was on this kind of anti smoking kick where

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Speaker 2: he's like the state wants he stoned, you know. But

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Speaker 2: a few years go by, movements in a lull, and

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Speaker 2: then Chernobyl blows up in nineteen eighty six, Oh shit,

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Speaker 2: and everyone is like, it's probably not good that the

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Speaker 2: communist government is covering this up, and a social movement

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Speaker 2: kicks back in. And I don't know entirely how much

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Speaker 2: it's exactly just Chernobyl, but that is the impression I

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Speaker 2: get that that is one of the primary things that

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Speaker 2: brings people back out in the streets is they're like,

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Speaker 2: we really got to do some about this government that's

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Speaker 2: trying to kill us all. And the Orange Alternative gets

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Speaker 2: back up to its antics. Antics antics is spelled I

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Speaker 2: always expect more season it never mind anyway, I swear

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Speaker 2: I'm not the Stone. And it starts off low key,

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Speaker 2: but they escalate rapidly. And this is where you get

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Speaker 2: what you asked for and I promised at the beginning

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Speaker 2: of it. All crazy weird flash mob style shit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They start with like they do like what appears to

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Speaker 2: be like smoke bomb parties in public where they pass

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Speaker 2: out these like cardboard tubes with colorful things that burn bright.

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Speaker 2: And then they also like are like, let's all wear

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Speaker 2: paper hats in public and see what the government does.

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Speaker 2: They just do weird shit that the government doesn't want

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Speaker 2: you doing, but it looks really foolish if it tries

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Speaker 2: to stop you, like, how dare you all wear paper

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Speaker 2: hats in the public square?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 2: And Okay, my best version of something like this I

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Speaker 2: ever did. We organized a pirate parade in Manhattan once

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Speaker 2: during kind of the peak of like kind of like

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Speaker 2: during an anti war period in like two thousand and

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Speaker 2: three or four, and so cops were following us, and

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Speaker 2: we're all dressed up like pirates and we're going around

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Speaker 2: and yelling you are and you know whatever, and the

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Speaker 2: cop finally at one point is like, what is this about?

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Speaker 2: And I broke one of my rules, which is we

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Speaker 2: talked to cops and pot and like things like this.

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Speaker 2: But I was like, it was about pirates. And he

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Speaker 2: was like, this is like an anti war thing. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, like we're it's about pirates,

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Speaker 2: like y'all. And he was just so confused, and I

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Speaker 2: loved it, and it was one of my favorite actions

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Speaker 2: I've ever been on. And it was all the same

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Speaker 2: people who did do anti warshit all the time, so

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Speaker 2: we just you know, but.

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Speaker 4: Was it explicitly anti war what you were doing.

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Speaker 2: No, it was just weird public theater strangeness. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I'd love it.

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Speaker 7: So wait, these people that studied theater, they probably had

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Speaker 7: like twenty years of pent up. Yeah, like this is

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Speaker 7: where it's coming out in the flash mob.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. On April Fool's Day, they had a huge march

401
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Speaker 2: with a giant paper mache centipede puppet weaving its way

402
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Speaker 2: through the city where everyone's like under the centipede puppet

403
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 2: like moving through the city. And they really hit their

404
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 2: stride when a group of women among them from a

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Speaker 2: dorm called xx Latka, which I get the impressions sort

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Speaker 2: of like sorority ish or something, but it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: a group of women's students. They started distributing red dwarf

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Speaker 2: hats for demonstrations, and the idea was simple. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is literally the thing that they'd all been dreaming of.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna make the dwarf's three dimensional. We're going to

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Speaker 2: call for a big demonstration where everyone wears dwarf hats,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to make the government run around chasing

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Speaker 2: us and stealing our dwarf hats. And that is our plan.

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Speaker 2: And these hats soon became a major symbol of the

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Speaker 2: surrealist revolution in Poland. They started off red, but by

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight they were orange to represent the Orange Alternative.

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Speaker 2: And everything that I'm going to talk about today is

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Speaker 2: all stuff in Rodswaft, by and large, but the movement

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Speaker 2: Orange Alternative did start spreading to other cities around the country.

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Speaker 2: I just don't know as much about what happened in

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Speaker 2: those cities. Also, some of it was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I read the whole piece by the guy who was there,

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Speaker 2: and then I like later read an academic piece that

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00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 2: was also like and look, they were also like burning

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Speaker 2: cop cars and shit.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, you know.

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Speaker 2: That part isn't included as much, but they are absolutely

428
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Speaker 2: also like getting up to more traditional.

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Speaker 4: Memorizing the government.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The first let's wear hats in public protest or red

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Speaker 2: hats they've done the paper hats before was June first,

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six. Xx Latka created an auction of enchanted objects,

435
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Speaker 2: and that was like one of the things they did,

436
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 2: and so many times on this podcast there are single

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Speaker 2: sentences in history books that I would read a book about.

438
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: All I know is that they had an auction of

439
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 2: enchanted objects, like this is where we all could have

440
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 2: gotten our swords.

441
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 4: Fascinating. Yeah, I would read that book.

442
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

443
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 2: And then they also the women distributed hats to people

444
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 2: all the while cops looked foolish trying to snatch people's

445
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 2: hats and arresting people dressed up as dwarves. Cops started

446
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 2: arresting people, but more people came. Major was arrested pretty off.

447
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 2: He's a very recognizable figure. He always walks around in

448
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 2: that like coat and with the shiny buttons, and he's

449
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 2: a huge beard and stuff.

450
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 4: Like, dude, take your suit off for a second.

451
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna learn that eventually, actually, But he's busted

452
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 2: out of the rest van by the crowd and he

453
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: like gets out starts throwing candy everywhere, and then they

454
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: arrest him again and they throw him back at it,

455
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: gets driven off the jail, and cops are screaming take

456
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 2: off your hats through megaphones, and everyone is just laughing

457
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: at them, like people are just coming out to laugh

458
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 2: at the government. It's kind of like how like actually

459
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: people talk about how to deal with the right wing

460
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 2: right now, where we're like, oh, it's remind them that

461
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: they are laughable, right because Nazis hate being like the

462
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 2: authoritarians hate being laughed at. They want their authority respected

463
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 2: more than anything. And all the laughing and screaming take

464
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: off your hat's attracted more onlookers and people started singing

465
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: some song called We Are the Dwarves that I think

466
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 2: is probably some kind of kids song, and this made

467
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: press all over the nation. On October one, they met

468
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 2: up in public to distribute necessities that are hard to

469
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: get in Poland, including toilet paper and menstrual pads. Major

470
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 2: was arrested for distributing menstrual pads. This is not the

471
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 2: last time he is going to get arrested for distributing

472
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 2: menstrual pads for free.

473
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 4: Feminist King, thank you Major.

474
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: I know I was a little bit nervous when I

475
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: first started reading the book because at the very beginning

476
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: the book is called The Lives of the Orange Men,

477
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 2: and it's about some of the men involved, and in

478
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 2: the introduction he says like, he lists a whole bunch

479
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 2: of women who are really important and involved, and he's like,

480
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: but I didn't feel like I could tell their story.

481
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 2: And at first I was like, oh, this seems like

482
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 2: a cop out, and it's still not how I would

483
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 2: recommend to him to do it, right, But after reading

484
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: more about him, I'm like, oh no, he like legitimately

485
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: probably as part of the feminist may Louis was part of.

486
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 2: He probably was like as a man, I shouldn't be

487
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 2: telling these people's.

488
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 4: Stories, you know, all right, I could respect that.

489
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like again, I think you to put women in

490
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: your book, you know, but yeah, No, it's a very

491
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: actively feminist movement and this makes the government look like idiots.

492
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: They're arresting a hippie for giving away menstrual pads because

493
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: also it keeps pointing out that, well, no one can

494
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 2: get these, and like the feign press is always like, wait,

495
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 2: what do what do people do if they don't have them?

496
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: And it's just kind of this like everyone's like the

497
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: joke that apparently everyone was saying is like, oh no, no,

498
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: good communist women doments rate not problem.

499
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 7: That's ridiculous. I'm reading this book Mother Winter. It's actually

500
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 7: really fucking good. But they're in some Soviet block country

501
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 7: in the eighties and they don't have toilet papers, so

502
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 7: they're wiping their asses with newspapers and that's.

503
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a rough reality.

504
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in more ways than one. Yes, good old

505
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 2: butt puns. Yeah, no, it's it's a it's it's a

506
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: fucking problem that they can't get their shit, get their shits.

507
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: God damn it.

508
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 4: You're good.

509
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, thanks, I totally did that on purpose, absolutely,

510
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: And so a few weeks later they all went out

511
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: and it's okay if they didn't dress like cops. Instead,

512
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 2: there was like certain colors that the militia used. I'm

513
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: not sure what they were, and they painted themselves like

514
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: their bodies in those colors like red or whatever, you know,

515
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: and then went out and acted like cops, and they

516
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 2: gave away fake tickets because one of the main things

517
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 2: the cops would do is traffic. They would like stand

518
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: in the middle of intersections and tell everyone where to

519
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: go whatever, and then yell at people for jaywalking. So

520
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: all of the Orange Alternative just acted like cops while

521
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: in weird body paint and were like giving out fake

522
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: tickets for jaywalking to people. And when they all got arrested,

523
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: they were like, what, no, We're just trying to help,

524
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 2: Like you seemed overwhelmed, so we're just out there doing

525
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 2: your work for you with you, you know, and soon

526
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: they're out of jail again. They the fact that they

527
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: get out of jail fairly quickly, rightly, is why I

528
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 2: think that they weren't like machine gunning crowds at this point,

529
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 2: right you know, yeah, yeah, and soon Okay, So next

530
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: time they all go out and everyone wears tails and

531
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: bows made out of toilet paper, and the cops arrested

532
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: sixty eight adults, one child, and two dogs for wearing

533
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:21,719
Speaker 2: toilet paper bows and then you get to my nerd

534
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: history hearts favorite of their actions, which is okay. In

535
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: nineteen seventeen, during the Russian Revolution, which I did a

536
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: six parter about because I'm that kind of girl, anarchists

537
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: and communists stormed the Winter Palace in Russia and did

538
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: the Second Russian Revolution of that year. This led to

539
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: a major civil war where the Bolsheviks crushed all their

540
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: former allies, turn on the anarchists and all the other

541
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: leftist socialists. And because of this, because of the civil war,

542
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 2: the symbol of the anarchist movement in Russia, the black flag,

543
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: was not flown since that guy with the nice beard

544
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: that he liked named Peter Kopak and the zoologist. His

545
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: funeral in nineteen twenty one was the last time that

546
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: the Bolsheviks allowed a public anarchist procession. So the black

547
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: flag was off flown in public in any kind of

548
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: major way until the Orange Alternative. Because on the seventieth

549
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: anniversary of the storming of the Winter Palace, which is

550
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 2: like a big holiday right in USSR and stuff, the

551
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: Orange Alternative was like, how can we just like really

552
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: fuck with them? And the answer was to kind of

553
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: become more communist than the Communist government. They were like,

554
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: we're going to recreate the Storming of the Winter Palace

555
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: with like cardboard battleships and hobby horses that were going

556
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: to ride as like our horses for the cavalry, and

557
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: huge red banners and also black flags. And it's going

558
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: to be one part protest, one part theater, all surrealism,

559
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: and they're going to outread the reds. How could the

560
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: Communists be if they all wore red and recreated the

561
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: Storming of the Winter Palace. And so they put out

562
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: a proclamation that was like everyone come wearing red, red lips,

563
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: red nails, a baguette covered in catsup, whatever you feel like,

564
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: just bring something red. And they had a special dog

565
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: costume competition as part of it. There's so many dogs

566
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: in the story.

567
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 4: I have to say I love the hobby horses, I know,

568
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 4: I know.

569
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: I love that they're like, to me, this is a

570
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: kind of important emotional thing where the black flag rises again.

571
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: They're like riding hobby horses with me, you know, like

572
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: into it. It's so weird.

573
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 4: I'm like two into those girls on TikTok. The hobby

574
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 4: horse stuff.

575
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: I've seen some of it. Yeah, yeah, so they uh,

576
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: there is part of what they're recreating too. Is this

577
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: like one of the last times that socialists tried to

578
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: have a pluralistic, democratic, communist revolution in Russia, right, And

579
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: so they're like recreating that through theater. But it also

580
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: sort of weirdly becomes, from my point of view, kind

581
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: of true because the Bolsheviks tried to kill socialism in

582
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: communism and anarchism by branding authoritarianism as communism, and for

583
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: seventy years they succeeded, and then playfully, this rebellious spirit

584
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: rises again and fucking destroys them and I love it.

585
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 4: Wait, it works.

586
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: So this isn't what brings down the government, but things

587
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: are coming to a head during this time. They are

588
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: within a year of bringing down the communist government at

589
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: this point. Oh, this is like part of the revolution

590
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: that ends communism in Poland. And I really like that

591
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: guy Peter Kropockin and a zoologist. He went to his

592
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 2: grave depressed because he was his old man and he

593
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: thought the revolution was going to happen, and then the

594
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: Bolsheviks took over and made everything a nightmare, and he

595
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: went to his grave really sad, and he gets the

596
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: last fucking laugh because people that he inspired fucking brought

597
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: down the Bolsheviks, and it just makes me really happy,

598
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: awesome and yeah, and they also have hobby horses and

599
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: cardboard battleships, and the Major in a brilliant tactical thinking

600
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: thinking about all the times he constantly gets arrested immediately

601
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: because everyone knows he's there. He shaved his head and

602
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: his beard, and he didn't wear his signature long black

603
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: coat with shiny silver buttons. Oh and so we didn't

604
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: get arrested.

605
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: I would have told him to do that like ten

606
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 4: years ago.

607
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 7: But I.

608
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: And the cops arrived and they started arresting everyone wearing red,

609
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 2: and they'd be like, get that old lady with a

610
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: red scarf, and everyone's running around and it looks real

611
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: bad to be the communists arresting everyone wearing red. Yeah,

612
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: and the event gets international press. The Communist cops shouting

613
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: arrest the reds makes him look like fucking idiots. I

614
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: think the orange alternative is unparalleled in history and making

615
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: the state look bad, like looking like fools, you know, amazing.

616
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: The next big action they do, Major goes in drag

617
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: and he talks about this for like a page or

618
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,239
Speaker 2: so and I can't totally get like exactly what it

619
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: means to him, but he goes in drag and he

620
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: like later he's like, I think I understand a little

621
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: better about how women are treated by society. He's also

622
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: convinced that breaking gender norms is part of bringing down authoritarianism.

623
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: And he gets arrested and like, as someone who you

624
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: know looks like a man wearing a dress, it is

625
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: extra scary to be arrested as a was anyone wearing

626
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: a dress, but like, you know, m And then their

627
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 2: next action they throw a Saint Nicholas Day action where

628
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: everyone wears Santa Claus outfits. All the Santas tie themselves

629
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: to each other so that they're harder to arrest, and

630
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: the press just eats up cops arresting Santa Claus. And

631
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: because of Saint Nicholas's Day, professional Santa Clauses are like

632
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: out about anyway, right, oh, because it's just.

633
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 4: You know, a different holiday for them, right, They're like, shit,

634
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 4: I'm trying to work, man.

635
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

636
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: And they're all getting arrested too, which makes them into

637
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: passive resistors, right. And the major goes dresses the devil

638
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: because I guess why not I don't know. If you

639
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: want to dress like the devil, you can buy a devil. No,

640
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: we're probably not sponsored by spirit Halloween, it's.

641
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 4: A commercial holiday.

642
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: Christmas, Oh yeah, we're sponsored by Christmas. Go buy things.

643
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 5: Is it Christmas or is it on the feast day

644
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 5: of Saint Nicholas.

645
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: Oh it's on the fast December six or something.

646
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 5: So then it's my birthday.

647
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 7: So oh oh by Sophie birthday present from one of

648
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 7: the brilliant sponsors.

649
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, think think of me, young listeners.

650
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: Buy Sophie's swords. Yeah, and buy whatever comes next because

651
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: it will obviously be good because we individually vet every

652
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: single ad and can speak to all of them being

653
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: good and moral. That part's a lie I've learned from

654
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: this book, The Surrealist Thing. Here's an ad or two

655
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 2: and we're back, okay. After the Saint Nicholas, they're like,

656
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: we're going to call for a huge festival and it's

657
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: gonna be a public ballet. Here's where we get real

658
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 2: fucking what's that word flash, mobby? Yes, and so everyone's

659
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 2: learning ballet to get ready for the Proletario Festival, which

660
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 2: is like Rio is capitalized. At first, I thought it

661
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 2: was gonna be was like a misspelling because if it

662
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: was like my Friends, it would have they would have

663
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: capitalized riot instead of Rio, you know, but it's actually Rio,

664
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: like Rio de Janeiro, where they're like, oh, it's gonna

665
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: be carnival, you know.

666
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 4: Ah yeah, And.

667
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: The handbill said it was going to be so fabulous

668
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: that the cops wouldn't touch it. Quote, let's do a

669
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: little bit of hocus pocus and either the militia will

670
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: disappear or they'll join the carnival.

671
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 4: That's cute.

672
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: And this time the cops they're like, we're like really

673
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: getting into like the regime is like starting to collapse

674
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 2: at this point, right, They're getting less and less capable

675
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: of holding onto power, and they are looking more and

676
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 2: more ridiculous. And so the cops try arresting their organizers

677
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 2: ahead of time. But the secret Police is actually fairly infiltrated,

678
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: I think by the Orange alternative. I think that they

679
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: actually have friends in the Secret Police who are tipping

680
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: them off to stuff. And I do know that they

681
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: had also broken the code that was used over the

682
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 2: radios by the Secret Police. So everyone went and slept

683
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: elsewhere and no one was arrested beforehand, and on the

684
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: day of huge crowd arrives these you know, the things

685
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: that they're they're happenings that they're called are getting bigger

686
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: and bigger, and people are dressed in all sorts of costumes,

687
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: including what I would not recommend, which is a bunch

688
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: of people came dressed as KKK.

689
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 7: No, guys, yeah, you have so many other options.

690
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: I know. I think if you're on the other side

691
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 2: of the iron curtain, you're probably thinking, like, this is

692
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: basically the same as dressing up as a devil or something.

693
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: You know.

694
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I don't recommend it. It's one

695
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: of those things where I was like, man, my story

696
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: would be easier if I don't put in that they

697
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: dressed like the I'm like, I should be honest, only

698
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: a couple of them. But then it's annoying because then

699
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: all the KKK people get arrested, and then I think

700
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 2: makes the cops look great.

701
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, were they just lazy? Were they like

702
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 4: I have? All I had was a white sheet?

703
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: So I think that they are not on top of

704
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 2: avoiding cultural appropriation, And yeah, no, I'm sure that that's

705
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: part of it. Like I think so, I think that

706
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 2: they're just like we're just going to dress up in

707
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: like costume, like weird exotic things from foreign lands, you know.

708
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 4: Bad call.

709
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, the major was not wearing a KKK outfit. He

710
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 2: was arrested while playing trumpet as part of the marching band. Okay,

711
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: and supposedly again, all of his interactions with secret police

712
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: are the parts that I'm like, really, I don't know.

713
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 2: He got so used to hanging out with the secret

714
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: police because he got arrested all the time. They always

715
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: interrogate him that he brought two dwarf figurines in his

716
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: pocket to give them as presents for when he was

717
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: going to be in their custody, and they gave him

718
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 2: a little toy car in return. Oh, and he promised

719
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 2: that he would organize a new holiday just for them,

720
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 2: Undercover Agent's Day, And so that was their next action.

721
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: They all trust them. Like undercover agents was like fucking

722
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: just like slicked back their hair and wore like a

723
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: specific style of suit that every like guy wore when

724
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 2: they would being an undercover agent. And then they would

725
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 2: go around and like pretend to like take pictures clandestinely

726
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: of people and like check people's papers and like look

727
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 2: inside people's shoes and just be really obnoxious.

728
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 4: That is so funny, I know.

729
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 7: Also kind of like they're bad undercover agents if people

730
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 7: know what their style is.

731
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 2: I know, well, okay, yes and no, because one of

732
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: the points of undercover agents, it's twofold. One you need

733
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: the real undercovers who no one knows who are, and

734
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: two you actually need the obvious ones because part of

735
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: the point of Clindestine operations against revolutionary groups is to

736
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: make them paranoid, so you actually want some of your

737
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: agents to be seen. They did this a lot in

738
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: the US against groups in the sixties and seventies, where

739
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: like part of the whole point of disruption is to

740
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 2: get everyone thinking, oh, that guy's a cop. Oh, that

741
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 2: guy's a cop. You know, oh interesting, yeah, and so

742
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 2: this is a way to like deflate that a little bit.

743
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 2: And Okay, a thing happened that probably happened where they

744
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 2: knew before they did this, they to have even more

745
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: handbills than usual, right, because otherwise they're actually just being cops,

746
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: you know, They like really need everyone to be in

747
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: on the gag. So they needed hella fucking handbills printed.

748
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 2: But they're like printing spot had just gotten blownup because

749
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: handbills are totally illegal too, right, So they like have

750
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 2: to go find an underground printer or whatever, and they

751
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: show up it's like the night before, and the secret

752
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 2: police surround the building and are like going to shut

753
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: them down, and then they all left. And the major

754
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: likes to think this happened because the Secret Police were

755
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 2: touched that the Orange Alternative had finally included them directly

756
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: in one of their art projects. I think that part's mythologizing.

757
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: I bet they had some other reason they left, but

758
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: I don't know.

759
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 7: I'm visualizing this and it looks like a mister Being

760
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 7: kind of situation with the like going around opening up people.

761
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's hilarious.

762
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 4: It is hilary. It is so good.

763
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: I had a friend who grew up or her dad

764
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: was an ambassador to Russia during the USSR, and at

765
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: one point the family lost their cat. So the ambassador

766
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: of goes over to the potted plant and is like, man,

767
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 2: isn't it crazy we lost our cat of the following description,

768
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,959
Speaker 2: And about an hour later, a man just like shows

769
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 2: up at their door, being like, I found this cat

770
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: for some weird reason. I think it might be yours

771
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: gives them their cat back.

772
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: Oh crazy.

773
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, Communist society was like full of undercovers. It was

774
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: that stuff's real.

775
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 4: I don't like it.

776
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't like it either. A couple weeks later,

777
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: they went out to go distribute menstrual pads in public again,

778
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: and it was International Women's Day, which is an important holiday,

779
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 2: especially actually in the communist era, because that's the day

780
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 2: that the Russian Revolution started, because women actually started that revolution,

781
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: because we get written out of history constantly and everyone

782
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: talks about Lenin and no one talks about whatever. Anyway,

783
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. Yeah, you know, some women who

784
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 2: went on strike and then a bunch of people were like, oh,

785
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 2: we should do that too, And that was the February

786
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: Revolution that brought down the czar. And so they arrest

787
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: the major for distributing menstrual paths in public, and this

788
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,720
Speaker 2: time they're like, what if we put him on trial

789
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: and keep him in jail, because we keep arresting him

790
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 2: like every week. You know, they're like, okay, I think

791
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: he spends two months in prison for making a mockery

792
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: of the state before his trial, So the Orange Alternative

793
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: used his incarceration and his trial to make a mockery

794
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 2: of the state. He becomes an instant martyr, intellectual sign letters,

795
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: student stage protests, and the government looks dumb as hell.

796
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: And at his trial, all of his witnesses Okay, there's

797
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: two versions of this, one in an academic article and

798
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: one in his memoirs, But either way, it's funny. Everyone

799
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 2: who came to the trial pretended to be dating him,

800
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: both men and women. That part's true either All of

801
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 2: the witnesses when they went on the stand were like, Oh,

802
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: I'm his boyfriend, or oh, I'm his girlfriend and then

803
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: proceeded to say what they were going to say, or

804
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: you weren't allowed into the trial unless you were his fiancee,

805
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: and so every single person was like, I'm engaged to

806
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: be married to that man.

807
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 4: Amazing.

808
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: And his version as everyone was my boyfriend and girlfriend

809
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: on the stand. And I don't know which one's true,

810
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: but either way, it's funny as hell and queer as hell,

811
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: and I love it because this would have been crazy

812
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 2: radical in the eighties in the US. Yeah, you know, like.

813
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 4: No one knew polyamory. This is a new.

814
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: Thing, and like boys dating boys, you know, Yeah, and

815
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: he was acquitted. Hey, awesome. Did they let him go

816
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: to Jamaica. No, he was never allowed to go to Jamaica.

817
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 2: And then on June first, nineteen eighty eight, they finally

818
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: had what they'd wanted this entire time. They had the

819
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: Revolution of the Dwarves. It was their largest happening that

820
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 2: they ever did. Thousands of people and dwarf hats came

821
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 2: out for it, and so the city were trying to

822
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: be clever. They were like, oh, we're going to overwhelm

823
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: it by calling for our own demonstration at the same

824
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: time and place right. Instead of the city taking over

825
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: the Dwarf event, it went the other way around, and

826
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: everyone who came out for the city's event joined the

827
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: Revolution of the Dwarves. And it like ten thousand people

828
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 2: marched behind a giant dragon puppet with everyone wearing orange

829
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: gnome hats.

830
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 4: Amazing. How big is this place that you've been telling

831
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 4: us about.

832
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: It is a big city now. It currently has one

833
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: point two five million people, so it's not like the

834
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: entire city came out.

835
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 4: It's a chunk of people. It's a chunk of people.

836
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then they had like one more weird action

837
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: that I can't find more information about and his account

838
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 2: of it does not explain what happened, but I'm going

839
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: to do my best anyway, because it's really interesting. For

840
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: at least a couple decades now, people in Europe, especially anarchists,

841
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 2: as I understand it, have thrown what are called no

842
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: border camps where they go to especially at the borders

843
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: of the EU. They'll go and people from both sides

844
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: of the border will come to the border and hold

845
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: it as one big protest area so that people can

846
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 2: move freely back and forth across. And I think they're

847
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: really cool. I think that they threw one of these

848
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 2: between Poland and Czechoslovakia, or they were trying to go

849
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: to Czechoslovakia to inspire the Czech radicals to also rise

850
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: up because Poland was way ahead in terms of like

851
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 2: how much they were fighting the Communist state, or some

852
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: combination between the two. I don't know. All I know

853
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: is that they dressed up in like full anarchist battle

854
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 2: regalia from like the equivalent of like they're like costs.

855
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 2: I think their costplane is like nineteen tens Russian revolutionaries

856
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 2: right with black flags and then marched on Czechoslovakia and

857
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: has freaked out. The border guards of both sides, the

858
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 2: armies are like fully mobilized, like and it happens in

859
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 2: like snowy mountains, and at one point the major he's

860
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: dressed up like a samurai and he's on a ski lift,

861
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: but he's only a couple meters in the air, and

862
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: then they like get stopped and so he drops down

863
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: and he's like trying to get away, but they arrest him.

864
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: And while he's in jail, he looks out over the

865
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: hills and he sees the black flag rising in the

866
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: snow as the army marches towards his position, and the

867
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: secret police have to whisk him away before his comrades

868
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 2: can come rescue him. Oh that's all I can figure out.

869
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: I don't know how it went. I don't know what

870
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 2: his purpose was. I'm so annoyed.

871
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 4: But wait, you know that major is still alive, right, yes?

872
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you know that? Uh? Well, okay, his

873
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: Wikipedia doesn't have his Wikipedia uses the present tense, and

874
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: he got his PhD in twenty twelve, and but like

875
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: there's not any updates from about the past ten years.

876
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 4: But you know, yeah, let us know, Major, I.

877
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: Know, if you're listening what was that one about. Please

878
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 2: explain slightly more. I appreciate your surrealist to take on things.

879
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: Please talk to someone who's less, who's more of a historian,

880
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 2: and let them write it too. And then in nineteen

881
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 2: eighty nine the Communist government gave into pressure and engaged

882
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: with talks with Solidarity, and there were free elections and

883
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 2: the Communist government fell.

884
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 4: Amazing, Wait, what year was that nineteen eighty nine? Nineteen

885
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 4: eighty nine, yes.

886
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 2: Okay, within a year of the Big Revolution of the Dwarfs.

887
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 2: And of course the anarchist dreams of the Orange women

888
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 2: and men were never realized. They didn't create a stateless

889
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: socialist society. Capitalism hit the country, but the specific despotic

890
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: authoritarian state was crushed, and no small part thanks to

891
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: the laughing stock that surrealists turned it into an academic name.

892
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: Luciana Romanico argues that quote declining state capacity was further

893
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: paralyzed through the theatrical device of street level demonstrations involving humor. Furthermore,

894
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: because of the intensity of the absurdity of humorous devices

895
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: employed in resistance messages, the Soviet apparatus was unable to

896
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: fragment Polish opposition through the standard course of tactics typically

897
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 2: used by the regime, spontaneous collective comprehension of humorous nuances,

898
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: unified polls on both sides of the ideological battle, thus

899
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: preventing the exogenous state actors in Moscow from mandating violence

900
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 2: to quell uprisings. And so basically they're like, all of

901
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: the polls found this funny, and so they couldn't divide

902
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: this movement the way that they would normally divide this

903
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: movement along ideological lines because everyone thinks it's hilarious. You

904
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 2: can't just go beat up the dwarfs. And there's like

905
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: other things that that same academic argues about how it's

906
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 2: an interesting piece, but it's you know, the tone of

907
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: it is fairly academic, which is its purpose. But it

908
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: argues that it basically made it harder for the government

909
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 2: to like shoot people and shit in the streets because

910
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: the soldiers don't want to because they're like, oh, that's great,

911
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: because it reminds everyone that these are just people and

912
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: they're playing, you know, they're doing something interesting. You don't

913
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 2: feel like you're the good guys when you repress them.

914
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 4: No, it shouldn't be illegal to play, No, so what

915
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 4: and you're.

916
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 7: Probably going there, But so Poland since then, I mean, yes,

917
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 7: it's like capitalists, but is it freer?

918
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,760
Speaker 2: So it's I believe, and I am not an expert

919
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: on this, I believe overall it would be safe to

920
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,479
Speaker 2: refer to it as a freer place in the way

921
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: that like, I don't believe the US is truly a

922
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: free country, right, but there are things that people can

923
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: do here that you can't do under communism in the

924
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 2: twentieth century in Eastern Europe, right, And you know, I mean,

925
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 2: like there are still a lot of problems that people

926
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: have with the state, and you know, a lot of things,

927
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 2: and capitalism is a major problem, right, But I am

928
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: operating under the idea that like ending communist rule and

929
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 2: Poland and allowing to democracy, allowing people to vote to

930
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 2: see what happens, you know, even though again, like representative

931
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 2: democracy is and this true democracy and money votes every

932
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 2: day and we only vote every now and then, and like.

933
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 4: It's not a perfect system, but it's like way fucking

934
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 4: better than whatever was happening before.

935
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the vibe I am getting from the stuff

936
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 2: I'm reading about it, you know, and telling the story

937
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 2: about the fall of you know, the communist regime and

938
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: pull and through the lens of the Orange Alternative is

939
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: downplaying the ten million members of Solidarity to focus on

940
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 2: the women and men of the Orange Alternative. But it's

941
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: also like there's that meme that goes around where people

942
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 2: are like, oh, if you go back in time, you're

943
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: always worried about how one tiny thing can change everything.

944
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 2: And yet we don't live our lives as if one

945
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 2: tiny thing we do now can change everything. Yes, and

946
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 2: yet people have done this without the same effect time

947
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: and time again. Right, but sometimes it does happen. When

948
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: we throw sparks, sometimes they catch. And you know, even

949
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 2: the like I'm going to get everyone to draw dwarves

950
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 2: on walls didn't work, but it laid the groundwork for

951
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 2: something that did. Yeah, you know, and it kept up

952
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: people's morale.

953
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:15,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

954
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 7: No, I love how playful it was. And I am

955
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 7: a big believer in the butterfly effect.

956
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And it's like nice to remember we have agency,

957
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: you know.

958
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, fuck yeah.

959
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 2: And the major he ran for president in the upcoming elections.

960
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 2: He did not come anywhere close to winning. He got

961
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 2: enough signatures to get on the ballot. He came in

962
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 2: like at least fourth, good for him. The communist did better,

963
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: the capitalist did better. The Yeah, for some weird reason,

964
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: the playful anarchist who probably wasn't going to take it

965
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 2: seriously didn't win. He moved to Paris for a while

966
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: and started writing about everything he'd seen, and then eventually

967
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: he moved back to Poland. There's a statue of a

968
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 2: dwarf still in roque cloth, and the city has adopted

969
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 2: the little Guy's a bit of a symbol driving tourism,

970
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: which actually makes the major Madison because he's anti communist,

971
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: but he's also anti capitalist and now his you know,

972
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: symbol is being used for things he doesn't like. But

973
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 2: it's still kind of cute that the city is like,

974
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: there's our guy, you know, the little gnomes. We like

975
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: the gnomes. He got his PhD in Warsaw in twenty twelve.

976
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 5: Do you know what?

977
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 4: He studied.

978
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: Art with a fucking long ass title about how I mean,

979
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 2: he studied his own movement, you know, he studied like

980
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: how art interacts with like playfulness and social change or whatever. Yeah, no,

981
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 2: I honestly it's probably really interesting stuff. And the Orange Alternative,

982
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 2: which was inspired in part by the Dutch Cabuters, which

983
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 2: actually cabalter the people I mentioned way at the beginning

984
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 2: from the nineteen seventies in the Netherlands who came before

985
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 2: all this, Kubouchers are also gnomes right, and the Orange

986
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 2: alternative spread to Czechoslovakia and Hungary, and then in Ukraine

987
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 2: they had the Orange Revolution of two thousand and four.

988
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 2: I don't know a ton about, but it was fought

989
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: against rigged elections that had were trying to hand Ukraine

990
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 2: over to a pro Russian party. So it continues to

991
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:08,240
Speaker 2: have a wild legacy.

992
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 4: That's a life well lived, good job major.

993
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: I know. And there's a way other you know, he

994
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 2: was like the some ways the leader, the central figure,

995
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 2: but in otherwise he just like completely wasn't and but

996
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: like but he did good. Yep, that would be I

997
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: would be happy were I him. That would I would

998
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 2: look back upon my life and be proud.

999
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 4: Amazing, what a fun story.

1000
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: And if people want to look at your work and

1001
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 2: be proud, how should they do that?

1002
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 7: Oh so I joked in part one that I'm trying

1003
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,760
Speaker 7: to start a cult, and I legit am trying to start.

1004
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:47,240
Speaker 4: A writing cult.

1005
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 7: I'm teaching this writing intensive it's called back.

1006
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 4: To School Pitch Party.

1007
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 7: I did a version called Midsommer Pitch Party in July

1008
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 7: and it was so fucking fun. My students wrote like

1009
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 7: twenty seven to forty thousand words and they have got

1010
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 7: bylines in the Huffington Post and The Sun and it

1011
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 7: was just everyone had a really good time. So anyway,

1012
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 7: I'm doing that again in September. All the info is

1013
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 7: on my website, Cornycosac dot com. So if you're a

1014
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 7: writer who would like meet a be your dominatrix, I

1015
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 7: will do that.

1016
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, awesome. And if you want to hear more

1017
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 2: cool Zone media podcasts, you should listen to Weird Little Guys.

1018
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 2: It's not about cabalters or dwarves or gnomes, but instead

1019
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 2: about weird little annoying Nazis. If you want to read

1020
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 2: more of my writing, I have a substack post every Wednesday.

1021
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: Half of the posts are free. The posts that are

1022
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 2: more like important or political or often like reflections on

1023
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 2: the history that I write about, those are all free.

1024
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 2: And then the ones that are more personal. I'm like, yeah,

1025
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 2: you can. You can subscribe to my substack if you

1026
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 2: want to hear me write my memoirs and shit like that.

1027
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 2: Just search Margaret Kiljoy substack and you'll find it great substack. Thanks.

1028
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, I have one more thing to plug, if that's

1029
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 5: all right with you, mac Bie Fine, Yeah, what's up? Fine?

1030
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 5: Behind the Bastards is now on YouTube with video behind

1031
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 5: the Bastards. Channel is YouTube dot com slash at behind

1032
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 5: the Bastard. So if you want to see Robert's.

1033
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 4: Face and Sophie's face and your face, sure that is there.

1034
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 4: The art is so excited, the artwork is great. Enjoy.

1035
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we'll see you next week when we

1036
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: talk about more cool people the cool Stuff.

1037
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: Bye bye, cool People Who did Cool Stuff is a

1038
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media.

1039
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 5: For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website

1040
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 5: Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1041
00:55:52,560 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.