WEBVTT - How Mothers Can Damage Their Daughters: Could This Be You? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.720 Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.080 Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:10.280 Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.320 I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.680 on Apple podcasts. Do you have a difficult relationship with 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:19.920 your mother? I just learned a new term, and I 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.640 know it will help so many of us mother hunger. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.520 Meet the trauma psychotherapist who says there are three critical 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.840 things every daughter requires from her mother. If these needs 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.279 aren't met, the effects can be devastating. I used to 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.159 hold a lot of shame in thinking that I was 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.200 too emotional. When I was going through my second divorce. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:41.559 I went to my mother and how was her response 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:47.360 to you? I started drinking when I was fourteen, Tanico, 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.800 Were you ever told I love you? My thing was 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:55.040 just not having protection. That's my biggest wound that comes 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.840 out in all my relationships. Those women that you see 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.440 and you think are so strong, there's this terrified little 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:09.840 girl underneath and that's me. Oh mother, Well, this is 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:15.520 a nice mother daughter, field coordinated, and you are as 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.920 bright as the sun. I'm a walking or go maker. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:25.200 I thought I would bring this flower as just continuously 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.520 remembering how beautiful we all are on our journey of healing. 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.000 A friend gave me this book and it has been 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.399 eye opening. We all have mother wounds. We all do. 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:43.399 After years of working with patients, trauma psychotherapist Kelly McDaniel 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:47.600 witnessed a frequent pattern of harmful behaviors and women, which 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.120 he traced back to mother hunger. I just want to 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.680 take the time and just say thank you. You're welcome. So, Kelly, 0:01:54.720 --> 0:02:00.000 you say that there are three critical pillars of mother hunger. Yes, nurture, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:05.000 into protection, and then guidance. Okay. Nurturance is everything that 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:10.840 involves eye contact. Little girls are little communication machines. Baby 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:16.320 girls are worn starving for their mother's eyes. Wow. So 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.920 that's part of nurturing. Touch, holding, cradling. The more we 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.720 hold our babies, it literally grows their brain. I was 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.000 obsessed with cuddling ass and unfortunately many times babies are 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.680 left too long, often in a stroller, when all they 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.440 want is the constant touch and holding. So touch deprivation 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.520 that comes from forcing independence, which really started back in 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.760 the nineteen twenties with a behaviorist who thought we could 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:47.080 train train babies like we trained dogs right in leading behaviorists, 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.359 Dr John B. Watson conducted one of the most controversial 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.519 experiments ever to prove that babies could be trained like animals. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.040 He used a series of highly unethical tests on a 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:04.000 baby nickname Little Albert. This baby, known as Little Albert, 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:08.520 initially found delight in touching a rabbit. Yet as Watson 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.080 began to claim and steel rod and claw hammer behind 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.560 the child's head whenever he touched the creature, the reaction 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:19.040 became not one of delight, the terror. Watson then created 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.600 what he claimed was the full proof parenting method. The basics. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.480 Never hug your child, never let them sit in your lap, 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.280 shake hands to greet in the morning. A pat on 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.560 the head is allowed if they've done an extraordinarily good job, 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.239 and to get them to sleep, baby should be left 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.680 alone to cry it out. At that time, Watson was 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.640 extremely popular. He was the president of the American Psychological 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.440 Association and wrote a best selling parenting book that continues 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:52.800 to influence generations of parents and pediatricians whoa that doesn't 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.520 really work. I mean it works because babies will adapt, 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.320 but they will be starving and deprived underneath for touch, 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:04.680 and that deprivation is easily transferred into kneeding and wanting 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.200 more sex, because that's one way we get touched, needs met. Right, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.920 that makes so much sense. The next one is protection. 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.800 We're hunters and gatherers, so in the days of living 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:18.200 on the land, if you left a baby alone unattended, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.240 that's going to be a dead baby, right, I mean 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.160 if they cry and alert an animal or a predator. 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.120 So mothers didn't let their babies cry. They kept them 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.239 in a sling near the breast where they could always 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.200 feed and always be safe. So babies really aren't designed 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.760 to think, no matter how cute that nursery is, I'm 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.760 supposed to be in a crib. That's scary. Yeah. Babies, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.800 unfortunately get labeled. Oh she was a difficult baby. Well 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.280 what made her difficult? Well she cried a lot. Oh 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.640 so she wanted you, and so anythink we really have 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.400 to turn around what this good baby thing is? All 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:58.240 babies are born good. Yeah. And you can't spoil a baby. No, no, 0:04:58.440 --> 0:04:59.800 And I love that you brought that up, because the 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.120 definition of spoil is to leave something on a shelf 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.960 to rock. So we spoil our babies when we leave 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:12.040 them alone too long. What we know now is if 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:16.320 you leave your infants alone too long, you're creating neediness. Exactly. 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:18.320 I never had them in a crib in a room 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:23.080 by themselves. They slept with We were obsessed. I love 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:27.520 that co sleeping is what we are wired for. We 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.479 come into the world expecting to stay close during sleep, 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.480 and when we separate mom and baby for long hours 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.400 during the night, we're really looking at creating a separation anxiety. 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.839 That's where mother hunger begins. So anyway, the nurturing protection 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.640 are the two most primitive parts baby girls, baby boys. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.400 Everyone needs that. Where things change a bit is as 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.200 we move into adolescence. Little girls are still looking to 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.559 their mother's for guidance, which is the third pillar. Little boys, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.320 on the other hand, may then at that point, yeah, 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.200 look to the world of men. Not that boys don't 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:01.840 want to be proud of their mother, I don't want 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.360 to minimize that at all, but girls really are still 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:10.599 going to stay connected. When Willow was becoming a young woman, 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.280 I was like, oh, no, I want her to know 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:19.760 I'm her person to guide her through her emotional development, 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:25.520 her physical sexual development, her everything sexual. In the physical development, 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:32.320 I always felt so like open and and accepted because 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.200 you never made me feel like you hadn't been through something. 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:37.520 And I feel like a lot of moms want to 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.440 keep this kind of like picture perfect look of themselves, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.120 even to their own daughter. Well, sometimes I think some 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.279 women have a lot of shame from around. There was 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:52.400 so much taboo around back there. But I understand too 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.680 for me what my mother's experienced where us. So she 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.320 was just trying to keep me from making the mistakes 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.839 that she were trying to keep me from making mistakes 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:05.400 that you made. And I decided to bring you close 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.560 to show you that you didn't have to deal with 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:13.760 our misguidance and over protection. I love that you mentioned 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.560 over protection though, because as women, we all know what 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.160 it's like to walk down the street and have our 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:22.080 car key ready out right. We're wired to know we 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.480 could be in danger. We're going to overprotect our daughters. 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.640 You don't want to send your daughter out there unprepared. 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.080 So the pillars, my thing was just not having protection. 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:38.760 That's my biggest wound that comes out in all my relationships. 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.680 And I've looked for craziest kinds of protection, and I 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.400 don't have a really good sense of like what's safe 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:53.800 and what's not. I'm either extremely protective or extremely defensive. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:58.520 And I tell you why, the environment. It was my addiction. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:05.160 She found her security through my mother, right, But mommy 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:09.000 died when Jada was thirteen. When mommy died, that's when 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.400 my addiction really took off. That's a really important time 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:18.360 to feel secure and safe. That's when your womanhood starts. Yeah, 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.160 and that's when she lost her security. Yeah. You know, 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.760 my mother was her backbone and her house was safe, right, 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.080 And so once she was gone, there was no safety. 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.400 So then I went into the world and created my 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:34.760 own safety. And that was crazy. So I had to 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.080 deal with a lot of stressful adult things at a 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.559 young age. I didn't have the ability to deal with 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.120 the emotions that were coming with it. I just had 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.920 to buck up. And so those women that you see 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.520 and you think are so strong, there's this terrified little 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:58.920 girl underneath, Yeah, that's me. Yeah. Yeah, I mean this 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.040 is why we do the word part of the journey. 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.080 You know, Willow, do you have any understanding of your 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.560 mother hunger yet? Obviously I was so supported throughout my 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.079 entire childhood, but there were definitely times where you had 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:18.240 trouble looking at your anxiety and your hurt, and so 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.760 when I was trying to be open about mine, there 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.040 was no room for that at the time, like a 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:28.600 lack of emotional support exactly. That's kind of how I 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:30.680 was raised, and that's how I raised her. It was 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:35.480 like toughen up up. Yeah, I used to hold a 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.400 lot of shame in thinking that something was wrong with 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.040 me or I was too emotional, I had problem. But 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.240 then when I asked you, like, I want to know 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:44.920 you as Jada, Like I don't want to just know 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.480 you as my mom, And we started opening up that conversation, 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.640 and I had learned more about her childhood and the 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.520 kind of environment that you grew up, and I was like, obviously, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.959 me being a bleeding heart at every turn is gonna 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:01.320 look extremely dangerous. Of course, like that makes all the 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.800 sense to me. Well it's just foreign totally. But now 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:06.959 I'm an adult and I still come to you all 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:11.360 the beautiful But even my girlfriends, like I know some 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.319 of their mothers have this idea of like you turned 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.280 eighteen and yeah, I don't need to deal anymore, and 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.839 they're like, but but this is the moment when I 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.360 actually need like your real wisdom. I love that you're 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.640 saying that because it speaks to what I've noticed in 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.920 the years of working with women. We never outgrow our 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:34.000 desire for our mother, especially when we go through developmental milestones. 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.040 I remember when I was going through my second divorce 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.400 because the first one didn't really count divorce. I went 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:43.680 to my mother and how was her response to you, 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:53.559 m She kind of wanted to know what I did exactly, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.520 What did you do wrong? What did I do? Yeah? 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.240 And that was that generation, wasn't it that if there's 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:01.120 a divorce, that had have been something you did wrong, 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.760 thing that I did. I'm sorry. Yeah. So for me 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:11.640 the pillars, it wasn't protection. It was a bit of nurturing. 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:17.920 And then I was the youngest of four. I needed 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:22.760 more touch and cuddling and that didn't happen. And then 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:28.280 there was the over protection with the guidance of just 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.560 having in her mind how she wanted things to be 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:37.400 yea and her expectations, and when it came to sex, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.520 trying to scare you out all yeah, you know, and 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:46.800 everything is dirty. She guided me. Her mother taught me 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.960 everything about sex in a way that was helpful. Yes, 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.360 you were okay with your mother helping Jada with her 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.400 with sexual guidance. I didn't know that's how it goes. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.680 I would have been okay with it had I know, 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.320 just the fact that she didn't feel the need to 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:08.240 inform me another of but that was also probably her 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:15.839 ownership of you, like Adrian, her mother, but she's my responsibility, 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.880 you know. It was funny. Gam did show up at 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.480 some really pivotal moments. The day to day guidance was 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.439 really not great, but when they came to some real 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.240 life changing experiences, whether I'm going to stay in college 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.040 or go to law school, she was like, Oh, no, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.200 you meant to We're going to Hollywood girl. You know 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:42.720 what mother tells that. Yeah. I was gorgeous guidance because 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.719 I felt all the confidence in the world. Because if 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.240 she had said to me everything else that other people 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.600 were telling me, like that's a waste of time, you 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.920 need to stay in school, my mother was like, Oh no, 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.199 we're gonna go to California and we're gonna figure this out. Okay, 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.440 didn't you feel like you can do anything? Exactly? So 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.199 it was moments like that got into some real difficulty. 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:10.000 In Baltimore. She got me got and she was like, 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.640 pack your right now, get in this car. And so 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.680 that put me on the trajectory that I needed. I 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.240 feel like you saw her in a way that no 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.680 parent just says that to a child if they don't 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.120 see something special in them that they're like, Okay, there's 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.600 a spark there that I don't feel like it's gonna 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:33.400 get ignited in a courtroom. Yeah. Well, you know what. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.320 There was another time to gam when I was in 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.840 Italy by myself, and I called you because remember when 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.240 the valet said to me, I have a boat. I'm 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.320 going to take you out today, and I'm thinking in Italy, 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:55.280 I'm Twinny exactly. So I called my Mother's like, Mom, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.679 the valet wants to take me on this boat. She said, well, 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.160 first ball, if he has a boat, what's he doing 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.360 parking cars? And second of all, you are not getting 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.840 on no boat with nobody. If something happens to you, 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.559 nobody's gonna hear you. You're gonna be in the middle 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:19.160 of nowhere, do not Jada. And I said, oh snap, mom, 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.160 you're right so good. And let me tell you, because 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:23.680 I was about to get on that boat, how old 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.720 were you? I was twenty? Say, still need a mom 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.400 that's beautiful and speaks to the bond, even though the 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:34.120 bond had been through periods of times that were had 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.600 broken points. A daughter always wants her mother, yes, and 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.480 if a mother is ready to receive and be there, 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.080 then there's always time for repairing. Because for all why now, 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.800 I could have been traffic, you could have been straight 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.040 up because they knew I was alone. Oh my god, 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:49.760 I think to that day, I'm like, she saved my 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.920 life again because both of the pivotal the pivotal moments 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:58.960 with you guys. Another moment for me was when you 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:03.280 asked me to go to Australia with you. Oh yeah, 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.960 when I got the matrix and I literally just had Willow. 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.200 We were going to be in Australia for like a 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.760 year and a half and I called my mom and 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.320 I was like, I need some help. And I did 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.960 not hesitate, I did not have a conversation with my 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.040 husband at the time. She asked me, and I immediately 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:27.520 said absolutely because I knew that it was an opportunity 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.239 for us to heal. There was this healing and watching 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:37.120 her gift to them what we didn't have, but we 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.440 were having it through them. What a beautiful way to 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:44.240 step in and read Mother Jada as you helped. Yeah, 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.720 and Jaden, she had them both. The book was really 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:51.440 helpful in me seeing how I was able to change 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.880 for you, because one of the things that was so missing, 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.400 and my relationship with my mother and with Jada was 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:04.520 just touched very rarely. And I even touch, yeah, hug, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.920 and if we do, it's awkward. It's because we didn't 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.840 hug in our family. We knew we were loved, but 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.280 it just wasn't that kind of nurturing touch. And you 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:20.880 remember how you always wanted to cuddle and sleep with 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:25.160 us and you let me sleep with you, but that 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:30.320 was different for her. She and it felt so good. Yeah, 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.040 it felt so good to be able to have that 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.560 and I never had it when I had it with you. 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.280 Then I missed it with Jada. I realized how much 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.800 I missed with her. But then here's the thing, here's 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.560 the beauty of it, how it was able to change. 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.600 And that's the thing. That's what this is all about, 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.240 is trying to break the pattern and the totally so 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:57.640 entertainment reporter Tunika Ray says the concept of mother hunger 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:02.680 socked her to her soul. Nika hosted extra for seven years. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.720 She says, growing up in the affluent suburb of Brentwood, 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:10.480 California didn't exempt her from having severe mother hunger. The 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:15.040 way I was mothered was unsatisfactory. My mother and I 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.600 just don't speak the same language. We don't agree on 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.439 the sky color. We don't agree on anything. Her thing is, 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.480 We'll forget it. I just won't ever give you advice again. 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:27.760 It's like, okay, mom, whatever. My cries for help were ignored, criticized, 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.440 and others. When you have an emotional child that needs 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.560 to be heard, it's dangerous. I learned at such a 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.080 young age not to depend on her. But when I 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.639 had a child, that's when this like ghost voice comes 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.560 out of nowhere. No, just stop, Oh God, why am 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.080 I using that voice? That aggressive voice that that then 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:54.440 made me coward? My daughter said to me at age six, Mommy, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:59.840 why don't you and Grammy hug? Broke my heart? A 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.000 Appearances are really important to my family, but there was 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.719 no intimacy or love in the house. And I always 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.240 call myself a survivor because I was. And I don't 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.200 want to cry, but I was so depressed. I started 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.240 drinking when I was fourteen. In it. So I want 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.760 to make sure that I don't have that my daughter 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.160 trying to escape me going forward, and that she knows 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:28.320 that I'm a safe space. Wow. Thank you, thank you 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.040 for your testimony, thank you for having me. I'm so 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:36.440 grateful for this book. I've been really proficient at putting 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.919 all these feelings away, but I guess God felt like 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.880 this was the time for me to finally face this crap. 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:48.240 I have been a fountain, a waterfall of tears, and 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.359 so I'm going to try to keep it together. But 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.359 what I realized, thinking I had eating disorders, that I 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.199 have a problem with love and receiving it, that I 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.520 had all these things that I needed therapy for. The 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:05.800 nugget at the center is this mother hunger, because our 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.840 first experience of love comes from her touch and how 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:14.120 she feeds us. So food is our first experience of love. 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.840 When I work with women with mother hunger, there are 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.760 food troubles. What we start with is just whichever hurts 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:25.520 the most. Tanika, your acknowledgement that you your parents were 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.439 very giving as far as material things, that doesn't soothe 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:33.320 our need for love. Material things doesn't do it. I've 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.840 had so much shame in my life because why do 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.760 I have any space to talk about my issues. I 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.440 grew up with things and to have the life experiences 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.199 that I have. How dare I have even a moment 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:53.560 of complaint about not receiving love? So that has kept 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.040 me quiet and really just kept the pain cycling and 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:01.320 just getting darker and uglier. Right, I really really just 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.480 relate to what you just said. I feel like, let 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.200 the tears come because that internal we've just been holding 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:15.200 so hard for so frozen. That really hit me when 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.480 you called it that, Like I'm thawing out, yeah, because 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:23.120 I'm always crying to Tana defrost de frost. What's interesting though, 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.800 mother hunger weights, and it waits, and it is frozen 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:31.040 grief until there's enough support that it can thaw. Our 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.159 body knows what we can handle in what we can't, 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.239 and if our life is too difficult, this won't come up. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.439 But I think that's part of the reason why, you know, 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.040 a little bit of that emotional nurturance wasn't there with 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:47.200 us and my child, absolutely because you didn't feel safe 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.560 enough to thaw. At that time. I was looking at 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:54.400 you like, how dare you wrong? It's wrong? You've got 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:58.040 everything not knowing that the very essential things she needed 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.600 was frozen in you. It was frozen and in me, Tanico, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:08.159 Were you ever told I love you? Never? It's one 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.960 percent so painful to think about. Considering that I have 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.920 my own daughter, that's a whole other type of pain. 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:24.320 And my grandmother, my mother's mother, died unexpectedly when my 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:30.639 mother was two months away from delivering me. So there's 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:35.080 grief as well as trauma. I was born into grief 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.760 and sadness. I tried to talk to my mom about 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.240 these things and I said, you must have been really 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.159 sad when I was born. No, I was fine. Yeah, 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.520 she can't access it. That's so core to mother hunger 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.520 that you brought up shame. Here's how our brains work 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:54.560 as little girls. If our mother is somehow compromised, she's traumatized, 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.439 and therefore she can't care for us. The message we 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.080 get isn't something wrong with mom. The message we get 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:04.520 is something's wrong with me that she can't love me. 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.240 We don't never stop loving her, we just don't learn 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.359 to love us. And that is the shame that's core 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.240 and mother hunger. Yeah, is there any benefit to Tanika 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.479 sitting down with her mom? It's pretty rare to have 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.120 a group like this of mothers and daughters. They could 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.600 actually sit and have this conversation. I don't generally encourage 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:30.840 going to her mother because sometimes that leads to another disappointment, 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:35.240 maybe a fresh rejection, and it's very, very risky, which 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.520 is why I think it's important that we come up 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:42.600 with who our celestial mother is. The mother we create, 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.640 is the mother that adores us, wanted us, who we admire. 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:48.639 And you may actually think of a woman that you know, 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:50.359 you're like, oh, yeah, I wish my mom were like that. 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.119 You create that mother, and that's who you cry to, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.119 that's who you talk to, that's who you pray to, 0:22:56.640 --> 0:22:58.760 that's who you curl up with at night and say 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.720 thanks for keeping me alive today. Right. I think when 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:05.800 you realize what was lost. Did I miss out on nurturing, 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:08.600 did I miss out on protection? Or maybe it was guidance, 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:13.439 we go replace those things ourselves. We are the mother now. Yeah, 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.119 you have two girls. You've got your daughter, and you 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.399 have your little girl inside of you that so needs 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:23.480 you too. So if you can extend the same yummy nous, 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:27.600 the nurturing, the safety and the guidance, for you that 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:30.440 you're giving her. That's going to help a lot heal 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.680 what you didn't have. When you don't have the mother 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:36.679 that you wished you had the only thing you have 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:39.520 left to do is to mother yourself. That's right, You're 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:42.119 already a cycle breaker because you are aware. And I 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:44.840 can say this that every bit of you that you 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.960 heal your daughter inherits. You don't have to say a word. 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:52.840 I know you got this beautiful, shining heart of yours 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:58.320 every day. Yeah, thank you, thank you for sharing. Yeah, 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.879 the no, Tanka's mother's going to see this, and I 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:05.280 want to Nika and her mother to know that we 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:10.719 have compassion for whatever she hadn't been given because she 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:14.000 has a story. Every mother is first a daughter, Yes, 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:19.640 every mother is first. A daughter is deep. I've always 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:25.000 wanted to have a table and find information where people 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:29.199 could have a guidance towards healing. And your book is 0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:32.400 that for the mother daughter relationship. But I also think 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.159 for sons. You know, when I was reading this, I 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:39.720 thought about Trey and Jaden, you know, and I thought 0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:43.879 about you know, their mother hunger was and I was like, oh, snap, 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:49.119 yeah that's also real too. Thanks for bringing that up. 0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:54.840 All right, we have twenty five year old Katrice. She 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:59.960 has a deep case of mother hunger. Katri says she's 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.680 feeling hopeless and has struggled with low self esteem most 0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:07.080 of her life. Growing up, she didn't know her biological 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.920 father and her mother was battling with a crack addiction. 0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:16.800 My mom she depended on my stepdad for financial reasons, 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:20.080 and when he passed bay it was really really hard 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:24.280