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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A young father takes a

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Speaker 1: second job to support his family, literally working day and

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Speaker 1: night the night job as a pizza delivery person. There,

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Speaker 1: he became the unwinning victim of a murder plot. Delivering

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Speaker 1: pizzas was a second job for Josh. His primary job

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Speaker 1: was working as a meat cutter for Payless Supermarkets. He

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Speaker 1: worked at this store for over a decade. His co

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Speaker 1: workers were devastated for the husband and father of an

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Speaker 1: infant son. How could that happen? How? You know? All

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Speaker 1: he ever wanted to do was take care of his family.

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Speaker 1: That's the only reason he had that second job. But

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Speaker 1: so he could provide and his wife could take care

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Speaker 1: of the baby and his stepson, and that's all he

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Speaker 1: cared about. Josh was killed less than a mile from

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Speaker 1: the stores he worked at, in his own neighborhood and

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Speaker 1: his manager's neighborhood. There is no more well, not in

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Speaker 1: my neighborhood. Nobody can say that anymore. It's sad, but

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Speaker 1: it's true. So we just we take it and we

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Speaker 1: learned from it and see what we need to do

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Speaker 1: to improve so that situation doesn't happen again. You are

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Speaker 1: hearing our friend rich Night at WTHR thirteen News people

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, stating they'll take from it and learn

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Speaker 1: what they can. But what about his wife? What about

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Speaker 1: his children? His very young children to be raised without

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Speaker 1: a father, without a data, without those two incomes, How

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Speaker 1: were they going to be supported? All because of one

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Speaker 1: screwed up murder plot hatched to get money from a

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Speaker 1: pizza delivery guy, and now a whole family is left devastated.

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Speaker 1: What are they supposed to take from that and move

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Speaker 1: on again? Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 1: Fox Nation in series XM one eleven. Let me introduce

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Speaker 1: to you an all star panel to help us understand

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Speaker 1: what has happened with me. Ashley Wilcot, judge and trial

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Speaker 1: lawyer anchor at Court TV. You can find her at

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us from

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Speaker 1: LA renowned psycho analysts. You can find her at doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Coldcase

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Speaker 1: Research Institute, now Emmy winner, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on

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Speaker 1: Amazon now the star of Poisonous Liaisons on the True

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Speaker 1: Crime Network. But first to my longtime friend and colleague,

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com, investigate everyporter, Alexis Terres Chuck Alexis,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to wt h R thirteen. Flaffia Police

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Speaker 1: were called to this address just after eleven pm last night.

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Speaker 1: When they arrived, they found two men shot and killed

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Speaker 1: in the street. One of them was a Domino's pizza

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Speaker 1: delivery driver. The Domino's store less than a mile away

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Speaker 1: confirms thirty seven year old Josh Ungersma was making deliveries

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Speaker 1: last night. Josh was a delivery driver for us for

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Speaker 1: over a year. He was a great guy and a

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Speaker 1: great employee who was working a second job to provide

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Speaker 1: for his family. Nineteen year old Alberto van Meter was

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Speaker 1: apparently shot and killed. First at the scene. Neighbor Patrick

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Speaker 1: Gibson heard the shots from inside his house next door.

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Speaker 1: If I came out after I heard the first four shots,

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Speaker 1: the kid was already dead, so I don't know who

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Speaker 1: shot the first four shots or whatever. Then, Gibson says

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Speaker 1: he witnessed a teenage girls shoot the driver. I would

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Speaker 1: never thought once in my life I would see something

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Speaker 1: like this. Happening, like right there in my hey, somebody

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Speaker 1: getting shot and killed, or like somebody did like right

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Speaker 1: there in my face. Invest the other reporter, Alexis Terrest,

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Speaker 1: checked with me. Hold On, Alexis, I just had a

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Speaker 1: thought to doctor Bethany Marshall. You know, I just heard

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Speaker 1: for the first time a fact that the pizza delivery

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Speaker 1: addressed the shooting. The murder was just one mile from

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Speaker 1: the pizza parlor itself, Doctor Bethany, when you think of

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Speaker 1: pizza delivery guy in danger, you think they're speeding to

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Speaker 1: a delivery. Don't think of this just a regular night

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Speaker 1: working a second job to support his wife and children.

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Speaker 1: Worked all days the meat cutter pizza delivery at night,

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Speaker 1: one mile away. He never came home. Nancy, You would

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Speaker 1: also think there's a sense of familiarity in that neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: so he must have known something about the neighborhood and

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Speaker 1: which he was working. But back to your point about

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Speaker 1: the calm, the peacefulness of familiarity we feel in our

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Speaker 1: own surroundings. Think about the statistic that most children who

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Speaker 1: are murdered or kidnapped are found within three quarters miles

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Speaker 1: of the family home. Think about the number of domestic

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Speaker 1: homicide victims who are secreted inside the home in which

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Speaker 1: they lived. We think of home as a safe place,

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Speaker 1: but perpetrators also lurk close to our homes and to

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Speaker 1: their own homes, and they seek familiar places as well.

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Speaker 1: So crimes are not always out on the freeway or

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Speaker 1: at a rest stop late at night. Often there within

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Speaker 1: your own familiar surroundings. Which is what happened here till

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Speaker 1: like us Chuck Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, the

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Speaker 1: familiarity that doctor Benthany Marshall is describing really strikes me.

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Speaker 1: Here's the guy out working a second job, everything going

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Speaker 1: spe stentered operating procedure. All of a sudden bam, He's

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Speaker 1: never coming home to his family again. Who is this

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Speaker 1: teen girl? What happened? So? Her name is Jelene Billets,

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Speaker 1: She's seventeen years old. She and her boyfriend, Alberto ben Meeter,

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Speaker 1: who was nineteen years old, came up with a plan

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Speaker 1: to rob a Domino's delivery guy. They went to a

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Speaker 1: house not even where I right there, right there, corrent

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Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. Cheryl McCollum, Director Coldcase Research Institute, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: don't the pizza delivery people have a sign. I never

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Speaker 1: carry over what fifty dollars something like that, absolutely, And Nancy,

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Speaker 1: with COVID, most people don't even tell cash anymore. Everything

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Speaker 1: is your debit card or a credit card. So here's

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Speaker 1: a guy with practically no cash. Even before COVID, they

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Speaker 1: would very often, if not always, have a sign in

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Speaker 1: the window. Joe Scott, I seem to see that all

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Speaker 1: the time. We don't carry over what fifty dollars cash?

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Speaker 1: It's very clear. Why would you target a pizza guy

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Speaker 1: with nothing? They're vulnerable, Nancy. I've worked cases involving pizza

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Speaker 1: drivers and taxicab drivers over the course of my career,

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Speaker 1: and they all turned out like this. They were like

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Speaker 1: they were executions essentially, because you've got the element of surprise.

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Speaker 1: This guy's rolling up to what the authorities have deemed

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Speaker 1: as an abandoned house, and they know what they're dragging

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Speaker 1: this guy into, and they're gonna ambush him. Hey, his

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Speaker 1: hands are full, he's got you know you've ever had

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Speaker 1: a pizza delivered to your house. He's got a pizza

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Speaker 1: in his hand. He's got a couple of drinks they've

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Speaker 1: ordered that that's actually found on the ground there, and

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Speaker 1: this guy's going into a dangerous situation, and it's the

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Speaker 1: most vulnerable position you can be in as a citizen.

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Speaker 1: You're just going about your daily job. You're not expecting

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Speaker 1: to be murdered. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The names

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Speaker 1: of the two people found dead in this Lafayette street

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Speaker 1: are thirty seven year old Joshua ungersma In nineteen year

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Speaker 1: old Alberto van Meter. Both of them are from Lafayette. Now.

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Speaker 1: It happened near the street's heart heart in sixteenth Street,

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Speaker 1: excuse me last night in Lafayette. Lafayette Police Lieutenant Matt

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Speaker 1: Guard says the call came in at about eleven fourteen

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Speaker 1: last night. When officers got here, they found the two

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Speaker 1: men dead from gunshot wounds. LPD is still investigating the homicide,

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Speaker 1: but a teenage girl has been arrested in connection to

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Speaker 1: what happened here now. The deputy corner also mentioned that

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Speaker 1: Unger's Mott was a pizza delivery driver in Lafayette. Lieutenant

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Speaker 1: Guard could not say if that had anything to do

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Speaker 1: with the investigation. Yeah, it had plenty to do with

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Speaker 1: the investigation. These predators targeted the pizza delivery guy. They

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Speaker 1: didn't care that he's working to Jos to support his

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Speaker 1: family and his children. They didn't care about that. This

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Speaker 1: call came in around eleven fifteen at night. They used

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Speaker 1: the cover of darkness lured him there for what little

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Speaker 1: money a pizza delivery guy carries. You were just listening

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Speaker 1: to our friend, Samantha Tike at WLFI eighteen News. Back

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Speaker 1: to you, Joe Scott, Morgan, Professor Forensics, jacksonvill State. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned that you had worked a lot of cases where

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Speaker 1: pizza delivery guys and similarly positioned victims are targeted and lured.

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Speaker 1: Did you notice they waited until it was dark to

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Speaker 1: get the pizza. I mean this was very well thought out,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yeah, it was. And think about this as well.

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Speaker 1: There are two individuals that are perpetrating this, this attempted robbery,

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Speaker 1: if you will. And so you have one person that's

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Speaker 1: drawing the attention of the driver, all right, while the

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Speaker 1: other person is essentially probably has a weapon being held

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Speaker 1: on him. He doesn't know where to go at this point.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he's panicked. At this point. He is, like

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Speaker 1: I said, Nancy, he is vulnerable. This is what is

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Speaker 1: referred to as a symmetry in victimology. That means one

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Speaker 1: person has the upper hand at all times. And things

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Speaker 1: went really sideways very quickly. You know, Cheryl'm wanna call him.

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Speaker 1: You're the director of the Cold Case Research Institute and

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Speaker 1: forensics expert Joe Scott's laying a lot of fancy words

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Speaker 1: on you. Did you hear that symmetry in victimology? Okay?

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Speaker 1: What is he saying? All right? I would never say

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Speaker 1: that too. With jury, there's a lot of symmetry and victimology.

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Speaker 1: What just breaking down a column? He is so brilliant

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Speaker 1: the issue. You sure seeing that our side of your mouth.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, you know he's brilliant. Now I love his voice,

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Speaker 1: but basically this person, I'm sure you'd be happy to

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Speaker 1: report that to your husband. But just keep going right now,

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Speaker 1: enough about Jay Scott Morgan and so called silver Fox.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead. But this is a soft target. So we

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Speaker 1: see it with delivery people, whether it's flowers or pizza.

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Speaker 1: We see it with real estate agents. They can be

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Speaker 1: lured somewhere. So this house is abandoned, so there's no phone,

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Speaker 1: there's no proper lighting, there's not going to be easy

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Speaker 1: help for the victim. So again, they're laying in weight.

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Speaker 1: But again, my former prosecutor, Nancy Grace, I know what

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Speaker 1: you would do with this level of premeditation is beyond evil.

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Speaker 1: So you're talking about they stalk out this address, that's bogus.

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Speaker 1: They lay in wait, they make this phone call, they

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Speaker 1: order this pizza. And here's what's really discussing. They didn't

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Speaker 1: care who it was. It was just whoever in rotation

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Speaker 1: got this assignment. Whoever showed up with six and have

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Speaker 1: a gun shoved in their face. What they weren't counting

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Speaker 1: on is the victim having his own weapon. Yeah, they weren't.

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Speaker 1: And he carried that for reasons because I guess he

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Speaker 1: had felt threatened in the past. But he just kept working.

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Speaker 1: I want to go to ask you Wilcot Judge and

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Speaker 1: Trial Law, your anchor Court TV, ask you Wilcot dot com.

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Speaker 1: You know what my twins keep saying, Mom, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get a job. I'm like, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: get a job. If you want a job, here, here's

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Speaker 1: a toothbrush and a can of ajax. Getting there and

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Speaker 1: clean the ground between the tiles and in your bathroom tub.

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Speaker 1: That worked for about a month. They keep saying this

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Speaker 1: get a job what delivering pizza after I read a

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Speaker 1: story like this. You heard Joe Scott Morgan, you heard

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. A soft target. I'll never forget covering the

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Speaker 1: real estate victim. She went to a home, a guy

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Speaker 1: was waiting on her and murdered her. Just beautiful lady

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Speaker 1: trying to She had just called home and told her family, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I put something in the oven for you. Just turn

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Speaker 1: it on. I'll be there later, but your dinner's ready.

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Speaker 1: I've got one more showing I've got to go to.

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Speaker 1: He killed her, raped her and killed her. I mean,

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Speaker 1: soft target. It is just so wrong. It's not like

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Speaker 1: some drugs shootout. It's not like a wife plotting to

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Speaker 1: murder her husband. The pizza delivery guy, Ashley. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: so random, Nancy. It's really sad. We live in a

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Speaker 1: world where you always have to be aware, you always

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Speaker 1: have to be cautious because there are these random crimes,

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Speaker 1: and criminals will be criminals and they don't care they

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Speaker 1: hurt if they're going to try to rob someone like

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Speaker 1: Jessicott said, they had a gun, they didn't care what

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Speaker 1: they did with it. And it's really a world when

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Speaker 1: we always have to watch our back. But that doesn't excuse,

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Speaker 1: condonor defend the fact that these criminals took the life

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Speaker 1: of someone who was working hard to support his family.

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Speaker 1: He never, ever, ever, should have been a target, right,

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Speaker 1: there's no reason, there's no excuse, there's no justification. And

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Speaker 1: thankfully he had a gun on him. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: say that right to carry, because if he didn't have

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Speaker 1: a gun on him, the results may have been the same,

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Speaker 1: but it could have been even worse. It just there's

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Speaker 1: no good outcome. But he had to be prepared for

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Speaker 1: something just in case, and it happened. Alexis. I just

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Speaker 1: remember the woman's name was Beverly Carter, the real estate agent.

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Speaker 1: Just she looked like a model, beautiful lady, beautiful family

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Speaker 1: and goes to this real estate showing and ends up

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Speaker 1: getting murdered. The defense at trial by the killer was

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Speaker 1: that this woman had met the killer for the first

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Speaker 1: time and died accidentally during a consensual sex act. The

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Speaker 1: dinners in the oven just put it on four hundred.

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Speaker 1: I'll be home in an hour, Are you kidding me?

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Speaker 1: What a lie? And I think we covered that together, Alexis.

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Speaker 1: When miss Carter was murdered. We did, and here we

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Speaker 1: have another soft target. As we hear Cheryl McCollum describe it.

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the victim? He is

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Speaker 1: very easy, thirty seven years old, he is married, he

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Speaker 1: has a grand new eight, not even a year old,

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Speaker 1: baby's six months old. He's a stepdad, a loving stepped

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Speaker 1: out to her six year old son. And as he's

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Speaker 1: been a butcher for thirteen years, he's had a steady

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Speaker 1: solid job. About a year ago he decided that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to do baby on the way. They needed

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Speaker 1: more money, so he got a job as a Domino's

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Speaker 1: delivery driver to earn more money. Everybody loves this guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he worked so hard, and I think you

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Speaker 1: were right about Dominoes. But it's not fifty dollars, but

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Speaker 1: drivers carry it's twenty dollars. That's nothing to Loch dead

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Speaker 1: over twenty dollars. And you know, I guess, doctor Bethany,

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Speaker 1: I'm just learning a lot more about the victim. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are some men. I'm sure you've seen him out

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Speaker 1: there on rodeo drive. But here's the guy that marries

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Speaker 1: a young lady who is bringing with her a stepson,

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Speaker 1: a lot of men wouldn't touch that with a ten footpoll,

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Speaker 1: no matter how great the lady is. They just don't

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Speaker 1: want the sponsibility. But he marries this woman with a

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Speaker 1: step child, then they have their own baby. Now this

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Speaker 1: that tells me a lot about him right there, holding

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Speaker 1: down this kind of job for thirteen years, same position,

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Speaker 1: ten years, all day with a night job too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just reminds me so much of my dad, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Nancy. A couple of things come to mind about that.

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Speaker 1: Who wants to be away from their house late at night?

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Speaker 1: This was after eleven o'clock at night, when you have

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Speaker 1: a newborn at home. That in and of itself is

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Speaker 1: a sacrifice, not just the hard work of being a

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Speaker 1: pizza delivery man, but the loss of attachment with your

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Speaker 1: own child's or own family. Of course, he would much

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Speaker 1: rather have been at home than out working, probably for

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Speaker 1: minimum wage. The second thing is you mentioned the realtor

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Speaker 1: who is killed in the course of her work. The

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Speaker 1: guy laid and wait so that he could rape and

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Speaker 1: murder her. We are assuming that these perpetrators were intending

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Speaker 1: to feal money. These were two teenagers. What if that

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Speaker 1: was not the m for the crime. I don't know criminology,

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Speaker 1: but I do know human nature, and I have a

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Speaker 1: hard time believing that they needed to use that much

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Speaker 1: worse for twenty dollars. Well, of course they didn't. You're

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Speaker 1: trying to apply logic to an illogical situation. Of course

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Speaker 1: they didn't need to, but they wanted this guy's twenty

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Speaker 1: five dollars Crime stories with Nancy Grace, A guy working

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Speaker 1: two jobs to support his stepson and his kneeborn baby

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Speaker 1: and wife. I just hate it. It just makes me sick.

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Speaker 1: Sick about this guy, Joshua Ungersman. We're learning a lot

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Speaker 1: about what happened, and about the characters involved, and about

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Speaker 1: the victim himself. Take a listen to Rich Knight of

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Speaker 1: AhR thirteen. Two witnesses say they saw seventeen year old

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Speaker 1: Jalen Billips shoot a Domino's pizza delivery driver just after

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Speaker 1: eleven pm. Court records say that Billips ordered pizza with

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Speaker 1: a false name to an unoccupied address on Sixteenth Street

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Speaker 1: in Lafayette. When josh Ungersma arrived with the delivery, Billips

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Speaker 1: and her boyfriend allegedly tried to rob him. Investigators believe

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Speaker 1: ungers must shot and killed nineteen year old Alberto van

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Speaker 1: Meter with a revolver. Then Billips shot and killed Ungersma

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Speaker 1: with a nine millimeter handgun. The team faces multiple felony charges,

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Speaker 1: including three counts of murder and armed robbery. The charges

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Speaker 1: hold Billips responsible for Ungersma killing her boyfriend. Billips made

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Speaker 1: her initial court appearance by video and told the magistrate

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Speaker 1: her family plans to hire an attorney. Yeah, she's gonna

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Speaker 1: need a lawyer. Joshua Ungersma, however, dead. The shooter Jalen

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Speaker 1: Billops seventeen, charged with killing Joshua Ungersma, and she may

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Speaker 1: end up being charged with the death of her boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: who was shot during the armed robbery. Nineteen year old

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Speaker 1: Alberto ven Meter also dead in the middle of all this.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about her? Alexis Tereshiak. I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at a mug shot right now. Seventeen. Yep, we know

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Speaker 1: she is seventeen years old. She has I guess her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend that she was there with. But here's what happened

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Speaker 1: during the crime. What the police have said is so

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Speaker 1: she and her boyfriend ambushed us. Some there are a

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Speaker 1: bunch of shots fired. The boyfriend is on the ground dead,

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Speaker 1: that neighbors come out. They talked to us Joshua. He says,

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Speaker 1: please call the police, and she actually dialed nine one

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Speaker 1: from her phone. The samphone that she called to order

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Speaker 1: the pizza from is what the police have said. So

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Speaker 1: she is starting the she's calling up. Domino steps him up.

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Speaker 1: He comes. Then after the boy, her boyfriend is shot,

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Speaker 1: she takes the gun and walks up to Joshua and

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Speaker 1: shoots him point blank and kills him. You know that's

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Speaker 1: overwhelming to me. Could you just go through that very

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Speaker 1: slowly one more time? Sure? So Jalen is the one

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Speaker 1: that actually makes the phone call from her cell phone.

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Speaker 1: She calls Domino's Pizza. She orders the pizza. Joshua shows up.

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Speaker 1: He is ambushed by this couple. There are shots fired.

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Speaker 1: Her boyfriend, I'm saying boyfriend. But the boy with her,

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Speaker 1: the teenager in the nineteen year old man is shot.

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Speaker 1: He is on the ground. Clearly, I believe dead. Everybody.

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Speaker 1: People the neighbors are coming out from the house. They

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Speaker 1: see it. Unger's mother. Delivery driver says to the neighbors, belief.

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Speaker 1: I was hoping. He gets hope that he didn't feel anything.

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Speaker 1: So he lays there knowing he's died, trying and asked

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Speaker 1: people to call a police. No, no, no, he hasn't

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Speaker 1: been shot yet. He has not been shot yet. He

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Speaker 1: is he's defended himself. He's defended himself from the robbery,

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Speaker 1: and he is doing the right thing stand away from

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Speaker 1: the scene. So then so he's there, he's doing the

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00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,479
Speaker 1: right thing. The responsible thing called the police. She actually

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Speaker 1: called nine one one from her cell phone. Then she

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Speaker 1: picks up a gun and walks over to him and

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Speaker 1: shoots him point blank and kills him. Doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: did you hear that? I heard the entire thing, and Nancy,

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Speaker 1: one of those things I wondered was Jalen. She's there

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Speaker 1: with a gun. She sees her boyfriend shot and killed

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Speaker 1: a seventeen year old girl, then goes and shoots Josh

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Speaker 1: the piece of delivery man who is the seventeen year

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Speaker 1: old girl. Like she's a homicidals seventeen year old. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like she went to that abandoned house with homicide

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Speaker 1: on her mind, not with pizza or the pizza drinks

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Speaker 1: or stealing the twenty or the fifty dollars or whatever

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Speaker 1: she thought she could find. This is a young woman

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Speaker 1: whose primary emo was homicide, that she was trigger happy,

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Speaker 1: she was ready to do it before the pizza delivery

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Speaker 1: man ever even arrived at the house. You know, in

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Speaker 1: my mind, that changes so much. First of all, it

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Speaker 1: was going to be a felony murder anyway, which carries

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Speaker 1: a life sentence. She's treated as an adult because it

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Speaker 1: was during the commission of a robbery. That's a felony,

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Speaker 1: and someone died. Josh unger'sma the dad to too. But

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Speaker 1: now Alexa's terrestripe from what I understand you're telling me.

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Speaker 1: After anger'sma tells neighbors call police, he comes over and

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Speaker 1: shoots him dead. Yeah. He actually the neighbors said are

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Speaker 1: you okay, and Joshua said the According to the police,

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Speaker 1: josh And says, I'm okay, but call the police. He

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Speaker 1: tells the neighbor to call the police. The police are saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, in according the affidavits, they say she actually

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Speaker 1: called nine one one from her cell phone. So she

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Speaker 1: used his cell phone to call Dominoes and she called

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Speaker 1: nine like one. Then the neighbor says he witnessed this.

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Speaker 1: He said, she picks up a gun and walks right

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Speaker 1: up to unders and shoots him, walks right up to

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Speaker 1: the delivery garment. So he had been okay. Now police

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Speaker 1: are saying, or the prostors say he had several gunshot ones,

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Speaker 1: I don't. They have not revealed how many times he

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Speaker 1: was shot, or if perhaps her boyfriend had fired at him.

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Speaker 1: But he said he was okay. So you've been shot.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't say you were okay, Wayne, do you, Cheryl McCollum, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: The point of all this that really steaks out for

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Speaker 1: me too, is the victim, the delivery driver had already

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Speaker 1: put his gun back in his pocket, so he thought

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Speaker 1: the threat was over, and he was certainly not looking

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Speaker 1: at her as anybody that was involved with this robbery

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Speaker 1: in the beginning. So again it goes to premeditation. Both

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Speaker 1: of these suspects have a gun laying in wait on

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Speaker 1: this man when this happens, and she sees her boyfriend shot.

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Speaker 1: It's critical to me that she didn't run away in

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Speaker 1: a panic. She didn't freak out and leave the area

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Speaker 1: to even save herself. She walked, not ran, walked up

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Speaker 1: to that victim and shot him dead point blank and

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Speaker 1: stayed there and police capture her own scene. This is

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Speaker 1: not your average seventeen year old to judge and trial

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Speaker 1: lawyer a court TV anchor Ashley Wilcot, that is absolutely

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Speaker 1: premeditated because, first of all, yeah, the premeditation of them

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Speaker 1: luring him, the victim, Joshua Angersma to an abandoned home.

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Speaker 1: It was not for a pizza. The boyfriend, Van Meter,

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Speaker 1: comes out with a gun, he gets shot dead. Others

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00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: m calls asked people to call police. She comes straight

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Speaker 1: out and guns him down. There's no way around it.

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Speaker 1: This is first degree murder. Oh. I absolutely agree, and

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Speaker 1: I'm actually really impressed that they've charged him with two

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Speaker 1: counts of murder. Why because the phone connected her to

401
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: the initial call to the pizza delivery, which was premeditated

402
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: to get somebody there, right, She did that and as

403
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: a result of that, her boyfriend was killed in self defense.

404
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: So I think it's genius on behalf of the prosecutors

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00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: to charge him with both crimes. I just have to say, Nancy,

406
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: this reminds me. Do you remember probably five years ago

407
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Speaker 1: the uber driver in Atlanta that was murdered, gunned to

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00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: the back of the head. Again, they never found any

409
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: connection between the person that shot him and killed him

410
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Speaker 1: and the fact he was an uber driver in the

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00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: middle of the night. I know that family. The reason

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00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: he was doing it was to help support the family

413
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: of our money. Exact same type of case. Crime stories

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00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, I can't tell you how upsetting

415
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: this case is. You've got a decent guy, no connection

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00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: whatsoever to these two defendants. Second job. I pulled up

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Speaker 1: this picture while we were talking. Brand new baby. Second

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00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: job to support his family. You know. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to Rich Night wt HR thirteen. Gibson posted video on

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00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: Facebook from the scene After both shootings. The seventeen year

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00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: old girl was arrested for robbery and murder. She could

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00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: be charged as an adult. Unger'sma also worked in the

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00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: meat department at Payless Grocery for over a decade. The

424
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: store manager says he was married with a newborn baby.

425
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: We want to be able to do everything we can

426
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: for the family, and we are going to for right now.

427
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: We ask that you give us some time for the

428
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: healing process. The Domino store is closed today out of

429
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: respect to the Unger's my family. Autopsies or schedule for

430
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: both men tomorrow. It'll be up to the prosecutor whether

431
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: to file any criminal charges against that seventeen year old,

432
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: she will be treated as an adult throughout the proceedings,

433
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: as she should. To forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor

434
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: Friens at Shacksonville State University, j Scott, how can we

435
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: use forensics to prove the scenario that Alexis reported how

436
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: it went down? Well, you know, let's go back to

437
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: what Max said just a few moments ago, when this

438
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: young man, this pizza driver, had actually taken his weapon

439
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: and placed it into his pocket. Now, from what I'm understanding,

440
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: it was probably a revolver, a thirty eight caliber revolver,

441
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: which is kind of compact. There were four rounds that

442
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: had been fired, So you have those casings that are

443
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: contained their end. Those rounds, those bullets are going to

444
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: look different than what this seventeen year old, i'll call

445
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: her an executioner, allegedly was carrying. She was carrying a

446
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: nine millimeter and those two rounds are going to look

447
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: completely different, all right, And then we have to think

448
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: about range of fire. You know, with her, one of

449
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: the things that keeps coming up is this is an

450
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: execution style shooting shot him at point blank range. When

451
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: people say things like point blank, they throw it around.

452
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: Point blank is a real thing. That means that you're

453
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: within very close distance of this individual. I'm going to

454
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: be very curious to find out what the range of fire.

455
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: Did she walk up to this guy and just shoot

456
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: him in the side of the head, did she shoot

457
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: him in the chest, and how many times did she fire?

458
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: And all of that's gonna be revealed after the autopsy. Well,

459
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: we do understand from the autopsy from the coroner that

460
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: the victim, the dad of two, Joshua Angersma, was shot

461
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: multiple times. He leaves behind wife Jenny, stepson Logan, and

462
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: his six month old baby boy. Sebastian Headwarked is a

463
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: butcher at Payless Supermarket for thirteen years, then joined Dominoes

464
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: two years ago to make extra cash to support his

465
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: young family. I want to focus for a moment on

466
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: Billzebub Jaellen Billups seventeen years old. Could you give me

467
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: any reason as she wilcot she should not be treated

468
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: as an adult. In many jurisdictions, it is called the

469
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: seven deadlies. If a juvenile commits one of the seven

470
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: deadly sins, they will be bound over from juvenile court

471
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: to adult court. Those seven deadlies being if I think

472
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: I can remember them all off the top of my head, murder, rape,

473
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: child molestation, sodomy, kidnap, arson, and armed robbery. There you go.

474
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: This definitely is one of the seven deadlies. Give me

475
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: one good reason a trial judge to kick this back

476
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: to juvenile Ashley, I don't think that a trial judge would,

477
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: But I will tell you the reason why it's possible

478
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: under the law. Yes, you're correct, seven deadly get charged

479
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: as an adult. The reason that a judge will kick

480
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: it to juvenile court is because remember, the purpose of

481
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: the juvenile court system is to rehabilitate jun The purpose

482
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: of the adult system is to punish, and so they

483
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: do it to try to provide. I disagree. If the

484
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: only purpose of adult court is to punish, why do

485
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: we have halfway houses, Why do we have probation, Why

486
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: do I just send everybody to jail. Adults get rehabilitated too.

487
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: But the purpose of the system originally was not to rehabilitate,

488
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: I would argue, it was to punish. Now there is rehabilitation,

489
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: don't misunderstand me, But there is no there is for

490
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: juvenile court for juveniles. There is no intent there is

491
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: no punishment intended, but rather rehabilitation. So when there's a

492
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: hanous crime like a murder like this, they are, in

493
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: my opinion, going to be okay trying them as an

494
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: adult because of the hanousness of the crime. It doesn't

495
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: mean they can't be rehabilitated when they're an adult prison,

496
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: but it does mean that that is not the focus

497
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: the intent when the juvenile court system was set up.

498
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: This is what else I know. I've been trying to

499
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: speak to people there in the jurisdiction. I understand that

500
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: the boyfriend van Meter was found nearby with a Domino's box,

501
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: two drinks, and cash lying on the ground beside him.

502
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: We also know that the victim's weapon was the thirty

503
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: eight Smith and Wesson, and it was in his pocket,

504
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: as has already been reported by Alexis terres Chuck. So

505
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: what does I tell you, Cheryl McCallum, director of the

506
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, boyfriend has found with two drinks,

507
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: a pizza and money beside him, Well, it tells me

508
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: he already started the arm robbery. He had a nine

509
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: millimeter Nancy, I bet you that nine millimeter also comes

510
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: back stolen, perhaps an infernado or a burglary that he

511
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: a say, be tied to the seventeen year old female.

512
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: She most likely has a juvenile record. She's had some

513
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: issues with her school. Well, I bet you, I bet

514
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: there's other victims that'll come forward about behavior that she's displayed,

515
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 1: and I bet when it comes to trial she has

516
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: zero character witnesses. This ain't her first rodeo. Look at

517
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: her mug shot. She ain't scared, she ain't crying. She's

518
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: looking at that camera like whatever, you know what, you're

519
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: right and you just got Morgan. It has definitely been

520
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: confirmed that Erst was shot multiple times. This guy lies

521
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: there and dies outside at an abandoned house. His family

522
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: left without him, at the hands of this she devil

523
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: at age seventeen. She's evil already at age seventeen. Yeah, hey,

524
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: you know what, Nancy. This is the thing about it.

525
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: Let me tell you how far this this evil extends.

526
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: The neighbors were already aware that this had happened. Remember

527
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: what we heard. He had engaged in conversation with these people.

528
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: So not only did they gun this young father down

529
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: out in the middle of the street, she did, but

530
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: she did it in front of witnesses. That's how cold

531
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: and callous this is. This is something that is going

532
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,479
Speaker 1: to weigh in this neighborhood for years and years and years.

533
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: I think back to a lot of the crime prone

534
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: areas I used to work cases in Nancy, and I

535
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 1: would go back to those streets and I would look

536
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: and I would say, you know what, I've worked a

537
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: homicide here three years ago, four years ago. The old

538
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: guys that were there before me, Yeah, you got to

539
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: avoid that place. I've had mold and so this is

540
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: kind of like this generational thing that goes on that

541
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: area is going to be cursed and haunted because well,

542
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: you know what, You're right it will be. But I'm not,

543
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: so I'm not as worried about the area as I

544
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: am about this baby. Sebastian, the wife, the stepson. Their

545
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: lives are forever changed. We wait as justice and false

546
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crimes stories running off. Goodbye friend,