1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, many here. No such thing is actually off 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: this week, but don't worry because we still have something 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: for you to listen to. This week, we're hosting an 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: episode of Origin Stories, a new show from Campside Media. 5 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Every week, on Origin Stories, veteran journalist Matthew Cher talks 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: to a writer or a director about a project close 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: to their heart. On this week's Origin Stories, Matthew talks 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: to a Palestinian filmmaker who uses his mother's old home 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: video footage to tell a story about what it was 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: like to live in the West Bank during the Second Intifada. 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: No such thing will be back next week, but in 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: the meantime, enjoy this episode of Origin Stories Campsite Media. 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: Suha films everything, birthdays, bedtime routines, Chris mess and holidays. 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: She lives in the West Bank with her husband and 15 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 2: two young children. She's got a relatively comfortable middle class life, 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: but all that changes in the early two thousands during 17 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 2: what's known as the Second Intofada, a mass Palestinian uprising 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: against the Israeli occupation. When Israel launches a round of 19 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: retaliatory attacks, Suha does what she's always done. She picks 20 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: up her camera and films it all, the barrages of bombs, 21 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 2: the late night sheltered in the basement, her children's panic, 22 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: and somehow even in the middle of it all, Suha 23 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: captures an intimate and truly remarkable portrait of life under siege. 24 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: Nearly two decades later, her son Yusef, finds the home 25 00:01:54,200 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: video footage. Yello Jima read great dim yellah habit is up. 26 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: There are some, Yusef, for some the iraland wish, for 27 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: some the ertanic bar suit. 28 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 3: I would look at myself and I would just see 29 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: two empty black holes as I was hearing my mom 30 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 3: described me as a child the same way that I 31 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 3: saw myself in my most vulnerable moment that killed me. 32 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 2: And he decides to finish the story his mother started. 33 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 3: She's like, when I was filming it, I hope that 34 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 3: one day we could share it with the world. And 35 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 3: I told her, well, I think that day has come. 36 00:02:45,680 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 2: That's this week on Origin Stories. Welcome back to Origin Stories. 37 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 2: Today we're going to be talking to Yusef Cheruzi, the 38 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: award winning documentarian. Yusef grew up in Palestine but left 39 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: when he was young and finished high school in Qatar. 40 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: Studied Economics at the University of British Columbia. He's also 41 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: got a master's in development economics from Berkeley. He did 42 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: not take the traditional route to filmmaking, in other words, 43 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: but about six years ago he and a friend, Mary 44 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 2: el Ollentine, began assembling a documentary about Yusef's time during 45 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: the Second Intafada, the years long Palestinian uprising against the 46 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:47,119 Speaker 2: Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. As source material, 47 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: they used hours of home footage captured by Yusef's mother, 48 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: of the family attempting to survive in a time of 49 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: pitched conflict. It's a beautiful documentary. There's fear and anguish, 50 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: but also real joy, real love, and above all the 51 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: sense that life doesn't stop in battle. He carries on 52 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: one way or another. Three Promises won the Harrald Award 53 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: for Best Documentary at the nineteenth annual Camden Film Festival, 54 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: and was also a finalist for the twenty twenty five 55 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: Henry Award for Public Interest Documentary at Harvard. Yusef, Welcome 56 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 2: to Origin Stories. 57 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 3: Thank you, Matt, thank you for having me. 58 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: I want to start here with the unconventional path to 59 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: this documentary. So we're dealing with footage that is old, 60 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: that was captured a while back, and in the meantime, 61 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: after this footage is captured, you go off and have 62 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: a different kind of career. Talk to me about when 63 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 2: you make this decision. Okay, I've got this amazing footage 64 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: here and I want the world to see it. 65 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: It was about fifteen years from the events until I 66 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 3: found the footage again. So we had left Palestine in 67 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 3: two thousand and three, and in twenty eighteen, as you mentioned, 68 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 3: I was doing my masters at Berkeley. I had met 69 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: Mary Elle there and she had background in filmmaking, and 70 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 3: she had grown up in a pro Palestinian family, so 71 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: she was excited to meet someone who grew up in 72 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: Palestine and was asking me questions about my time living 73 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: in the Second End to father. So that triggered some 74 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 3: of my own questions that I had for my parents, 75 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 3: unanswered questions that I grew up with and haven't thought 76 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 3: about in many years. I was visiting my parents, we 77 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 3: were out for dinner, and I started asking my dad specifically, 78 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 3: just as a young man, and I was curious, you know, 79 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 3: what it was like being a father, a man in 80 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: his early thirties going through such a thing, and he 81 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 3: was like, we have footage of that, and my mom 82 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 3: was not happy at the time that he mentioned it. 83 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 3: I was shocked. I was like, what do you mean, 84 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 3: we have footage. So as soon as we went home, 85 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 3: my dad had already digitized a lot of our home 86 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: video footage from the nineties and the early two thousands, 87 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: So we put in the DVD player, it off and 88 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 3: just five minutes into watching it, and you know, for 89 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: those who have seen the film, it was that footage 90 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: when we were me and my sister and my father 91 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: were hiding in my grandparents' basement where it was safer 92 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: and having our interactions, and just seeing five minutes of 93 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 3: that scene, I immediately felt an obligation, really deep down 94 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 3: that I have to share this. It's so rare to 95 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 3: see such intimate moments in a war zone, you know, 96 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: in a family that, for better or worse, can be 97 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: universally related to So I immediately asked my dad if 98 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: I could have all of the footage, and I told 99 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 3: my mom, I'm going to take this back to California 100 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 3: with me and I am gonna make a movie out 101 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 3: of it. And that's how it started. And I took 102 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 3: it back to Maryelle. The first thing I had to 103 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 3: do was translate all of it, put the English subtitles, 104 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 3: and watch all the hours that we had of footage. 105 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: He said, if I want to ask you about the 106 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: fact that your family had all this foot and was 107 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: recording in this way, which strikes me as unusual at 108 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 2: the time. Now, we film everything, you know, when I 109 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: look through my phone, I film every aspect of my life. 110 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: But this was a time before we started doing that. 111 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: So what was it that drove your mother to make 112 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 2: these recordings. 113 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: I've asked my mother this question, and she said that 114 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 3: at the time she felt that maybe one day she 115 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 3: could share our story with the world. She mentions this 116 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 3: in the film as well. You know, the news media 117 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 3: weren't really speaking about what was happening in the second 118 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 3: in Fada back then, and there was no social media, 119 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: so if you don't watch al Jazeira Arabic specifically, you 120 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 3: have no idea what's happening. So you know, she felt 121 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: an obligation to pick up the camera on film. But 122 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 3: from my perspective as well, you know, we've always filmed. 123 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 3: I had more hours of footage in the nineties, like 124 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 3: pre into Fodo. Then I could count because my parents 125 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: filmed everything. They filmed every birthday, every Christmas, every event, 126 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: every time our friends came over from school and we 127 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: were playing. And I don't know where that came from. 128 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 3: I mean my grandfather, my dad's dad, also filmed a lot, 129 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 3: and he had a huge archive. He's from Nazareth and 130 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: kept old pictures of Nazareth from pre nineteen forty eight, 131 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: from pre the state of Israel, and had them all 132 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 3: organized in folders and was using Dropbox in like twenty 133 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: ten as like an eighty ninety year old man. Maybe 134 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 3: it's in the genes or in the household that my 135 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: parents grew up around. But the camera was always there 136 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 3: when we were kids. 137 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: When you looked back and started watching these all again, 138 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: obviously remembered a lot of what had happened. But was 139 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 2: it different than what you remembered. Was there a gap 140 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: between what was in your head from these experiences and 141 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: what you saw on film? 142 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,719 Speaker 3: Lesser than I would have liked, to be honest, I 143 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 3: started to question if these memories that I have of 144 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 3: the second and to Faddos are memories that I made 145 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 3: up or that I dramatized. You know, memories tend to 146 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 3: shape and get reshapen over the years, but the footage 147 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 3: definitely provided validation for my memories that I think gave 148 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 3: me more power to move on and it gets stronger 149 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 3: because I stopped questioning whether these were just silly imaginations 150 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 3: of a child. 151 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 2: Do you have kids yourself now? 152 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 3: No, I can't imagine. 153 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: When I watched the documentary, the most immediate visceral thought 154 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: was thinking about what your parents must have felt, because 155 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: when you're a parent, you want to shield your kid 156 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 2: from everything, right, and like the most horrifying parts of 157 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 2: this documentary to me were when you were scared or 158 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: children were scared. There's like a rawness to it that 159 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: is really remarkably terrifying to me. 160 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this became more clear to me not only 161 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 3: through talking to my mom, but also more recently since 162 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 3: the war in Gaza started and the more recent like 163 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 3: Eron Israel war that was happening when on the daily 164 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 3: we're hearing and feeling missiles being dropped, like Tel Aviv 165 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: is just outside my window, I can see it. I 166 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 3: grew up feeling maybe deep down that the decision to 167 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 3: leave Palestine that my parents took was taken without my consent, 168 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: and now I'm back here in Palestine and I'm going 169 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 3: through that same process of oh do I leave? Do 170 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 3: I stay? But if I leave, you know, there's the community, 171 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 3: and there's all of this that we've been building for 172 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 3: so long, and all of this effort that we've been 173 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 3: trying to do. And that's exactly the same reasoning that 174 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 3: my mom was going through. But then on top of that, 175 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 3: she had kids, all right. So I'm sitting here going 176 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 3: through my own anxiety in this decision making process, and 177 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: then I remember my mom and I remember, Oh, thank 178 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 3: god I don't have kids, because this would be hell. 179 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 3: This would be hell. I can't even begin to imagine 180 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: what it's like. But you know, makes me more grateful 181 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: for the decisions they did make. 182 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: Did you have to take time when you were watching 183 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 2: the footage? I mean, I'm assuming this is a pretty 184 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: heavy emotional thing to watch, even though you do remember it. 185 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: How did you do it? Did you watch them alone? 186 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: Did you watch them with Maryelle? Did you watch them 187 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: with family? 188 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: Well? 189 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: I watched them alone. There was about five or six 190 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: hours of footage from the Intafad period, So I sat 191 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 3: through that took me about three months to go through 192 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 3: all of it translated and subtitle it, so I watched 193 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 3: every scene possible more than once in that process. At first, 194 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 3: I wouldn't be able to watch more than an hour 195 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 3: at a time without stepping outside, taking a breathe there, 196 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: crying a little bit, sometimes smoking a cigarette, grabbing a beer, 197 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 3: doing what I need to do to get back to it. 198 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 3: It slowly got easier, and I started seeing more of 199 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: the beauty in what was happening, rather than it still 200 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 3: validating these early childhood emotions that I have still in me. 201 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 3: So once I got past that, I'm like, what a 202 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: beautiful family, And despite everything that's happening, you know, I'm 203 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 3: so lucky that this is me and that's my mom, 204 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 3: and that's my dad, and that's my sister. And it 205 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 3: makes me so proud and to see that. Because there's 206 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 3: a lot of beautiful and funny and wholesome moments, but 207 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 3: there were some things that soothly killed me on the inside. 208 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there was that scene in the 209 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 3: trailer as well, where my mom describes the moment where 210 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 3: I lost my childhood. She describes me as like a 211 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 3: face with two empty eyes, like black holes soul. Thessize 212 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 3: that's how she saw me. Me and my mom during 213 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 3: my teenage years, we didn't have the best relationship, and 214 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 3: I went through a really rough period depression and dealing 215 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 3: with PTSD and things like that. And when I would 216 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 3: look in the mirror during that time, that's how I 217 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 3: would see myself. And I never shared that with anybody. 218 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 3: I would be scared to look at myself in the 219 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 3: mirror because I would look at myself and I would 220 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 3: just see two empty black holes as eyes. And then 221 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 3: the first time hearing my mom described me as a 222 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 3: child the same way that I saw myself in my 223 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 3: most vulnerable moment, that killed me. I started crying immediately, 224 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 3: and I called my mom and I told her. 225 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: I fully believe that the passage from childhood to adulthood 226 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: involves some hardening of the soul or something like that. 227 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 2: I've heard it described in different ways. It's like you 228 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: stop believing everything that you're told. You lose a vulnerability, 229 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: I guess is the way to put it. And it's 230 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 2: a remarkable and terrifying moment because I have kids. I 231 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: just kept putting myself in your parents' shoes and thinking like, 232 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: what a horrible thing to experience, which also made me 233 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: curious when you said I've been looking through these and 234 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 2: I want to make them public. Was your family ever 235 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: like maybe not? Maybe? 236 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 3: Wait No, my mom at first didn't really believe me. 237 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 3: And I know this because when we got our first 238 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 3: grant and I told her, She's like, oh, so this 239 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 3: is really happening. I'm like, yeah, I've been working on 240 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 3: this for a year. So at that point I had 241 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 3: to back down with her and be like, are you 242 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 3: sure that you're okay with this? And she's like, when 243 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 3: I was filming it, I hope that one day we 244 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 3: could share it with the world. And I told her, well, 245 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 3: I think that day has come. And later on in 246 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 3: the process, she had some concerns that she might come 247 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 3: off as a bad mom, that she could have done 248 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: more to pretec all of her insecurities came up. But 249 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: there was a lot of conversations obviously off camera between 250 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: me and my mom about that and me reassuring my 251 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 3: mom like, you're a superstar, Like you're the best mom 252 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 3: I could have ever asked for. That, Like, if we 253 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 3: left earlier, you don't know what would have happened. Then 254 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 3: if we stayed longer, you don't know what would have happened, 255 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 3: and we are where we are today because of your decisions. 256 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 3: Once you started getting love from the audience's, her confidence 257 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 3: came back. 258 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: I have a logistical question, which is this. You're trained 259 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: in a totally different discipline. You came up in a 260 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 2: different world. Is there a point when you sat down 261 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: and like, I'm going to teach myself how to make 262 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: a documentary? Did you download software and start to teach 263 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 2: yourself how to use it? How did you go about 264 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: this process? 265 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly that I download a premiere pro and figured 266 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 3: it out. I mean, it doesn't take that much to 267 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 3: do the very basics, right. I knew at some point 268 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 3: I would have to hire someone that actually knows what 269 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: they're doing to do the final touches. But I can 270 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: slice up scenes and put them in the order that 271 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 3: I think makes the most sense in terms of story 272 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 3: and narrative structure and things like that. So for me, 273 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 3: the vision was keeping get as raw as possible and 274 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 3: just showing insight into what it's like living in a 275 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 3: war zone. So I was like, Okay, this is a 276 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 3: good scene. I could follow it with this scene eventually 277 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 3: came up with a rough assembly by myself, but then 278 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 3: after that, our editor took it to the next level. 279 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 3: I love her for all her patients as well, because 280 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 3: I went out to New York. She's based in Brooklyn. 281 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: I stayed there for two weeks and we were working daily, 282 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 3: and you know, she would tell me Jacob and Elka 283 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: and whatever, and I don't know what she's saying on 284 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 3: teaching me how to do it, teach me how to 285 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 3: do it. And she had the patients to be like, oh, 286 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 3: this is what this means, and this is what that means, 287 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 3: and this is how you do that. 288 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, And did you have touchstones from other documentaries 289 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: that you admired, Were there TV docs or movies they 290 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: were like, this is my tone or this is the 291 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: approach I want to take. 292 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 3: Five Broken Cameras always came to mind, just it being 293 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 3: the only other Pelscee film about the second and to Fada, 294 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: as well as for Samma about the Syrian War Civil War. 295 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: For Sama was you know, definitely like a goal for me. Right. 296 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 2: That's when she's talking to her daughter. 297 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: Right, exactly right. So it's this mom and her husband 298 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 3: is a doctor in the hospital and the mother is 299 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 3: filming everything and her husband is one of the last 300 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 3: to stay when the Russians start bombarding the city and 301 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: they have this baby born during the war, and then 302 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 3: they immediately leave the country. So her story is written 303 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 3: like a letter to her daughter explaining why they had 304 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 3: to leave and why they had to let go of 305 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: their home, and it was so powerful, and to me, 306 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 3: I was like, I'm in a position here to write 307 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 3: the follow up to that. I mean years later, when 308 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 3: Semma isn't a baby, you know, I was twenty six 309 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 3: when I started working on this. Other than those two 310 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 3: Nelson Kristen, who both worked on Midnight Traveler and Camera 311 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: Person and other documentaries that kind of have a similar tone, 312 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 3: we were lucky the s film and the Catapult program 313 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 3: and then later the Gotham Institute connected us with mentors 314 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: that relate to the aesthetic of our film or the 315 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 3: message of our film. So I was very lucky to 316 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: have access to those people and get feedback from them 317 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 3: as well. 318 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: At what point do you start needing financial support? So 319 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: you decide you're going to start to do this, You're 320 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 2: coming through the videos, you start talking to your mom, 321 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 2: and then at some point you're like, okay, this has 322 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 2: to become real, and you apply for the was the 323 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: Catapult grant where you started. 324 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was about ten thousand dollars. I mean, 325 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 3: we used most of that money to set up the business, 326 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 3: you know, do some of the legal as well as 327 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 3: do a professional restoration and digitization of the original tapes 328 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 3: because we wanted to make sure that the audio was 329 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 3: really good. That ten thousand dollars kept us going. We 330 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: eventually got grant funding from the Arab Fund for Arts 331 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 3: and Culture, and then we also got in kind services 332 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 3: from different pitch events. Right, we got one at the 333 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 3: Malmo Arab Film Festival at that Man International Film Festival 334 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 3: in Jordan. But we eventually had to do a crowdfunding 335 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 3: campaign on Seedent's Park and luckily we raised more than 336 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 3: we expected. That was to pay the editor. She offered 337 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 3: us half her rate on which she would usually charge. 338 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 3: Obviously not going to expect someone to work on this 339 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 3: for free, so we had to raise money to pay 340 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,239 Speaker 3: for that because she was working on it for two 341 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 3: three months editing, and it's not cheap. Editors are not cheap, 342 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 3: especially editors in the US. 343 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: And you're working at the same time. I'm assuming you 344 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 2: and Mary all are both have day jobs. Yeah, exactly, 345 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: so would you do this at night? 346 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 3: I worked out with a time difference, right because my 347 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 3: team was all in New York. So come seven pm 348 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 3: my time, they're working on things. I'm following up with 349 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: them on what's happened on email. And we had a 350 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: weekly calls to catch up on everything, and then me 351 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 3: and Mattot would She would send over like clips or 352 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 3: things that she's edited, and you know, I'd give her feedback. 353 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 3: But eventually got to the stage where like, okay, for 354 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 3: us to get to the finish line, yusef and note 355 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 3: need to sit down together there and do it. So 356 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 3: I took two weeks off work and flew out to 357 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 3: New York and just spent it looking over her shoulders. 358 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: So this is your first time making a film like that? 359 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 2: In your head, if you were wound to the time 360 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: when you have had those two weeks in New York, 361 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: what was the finish line in your head? How did 362 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: you envision it? 363 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 3: At that time? We had approximately an eighty five minute film, 364 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 3: and I never really gave myself a time limit, but 365 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 3: I knew it was too long. My goal was I 366 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 3: need at least fifteen minutes gone. There are scenes that 367 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 3: are boring and I don't know why or where, but 368 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 3: I am getting bored. I don't want anyone to get bored. 369 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 3: I want people to leave wanting more. I wanted people 370 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 3: to finish the film and have to breathe. You know, 371 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 3: are you're watching the credits and you use that time 372 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: to just like zone out and breathe. That's the feeling 373 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 3: that I wanted. And she worked her magic. She brought 374 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 3: it down to seventy five and then and fifty five minutes. 375 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 3: She was pushing for the fifty five. I was pushing 376 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 3: for the seventy five. We landed on the sixty one minute, 377 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 3: mostly because for film festivals we needed to be sixty 378 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 3: minutes to be considered a feature. 379 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 2: It can't be under an The forty to. 380 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: Sixty minute range is nonexistent in film festivals. If you're 381 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: over forty, you're too long for a short, and if 382 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 3: you're under sixty, you're too short for a feature, so 383 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 3: you get lost. 384 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Origin Stories. Today, we're talking to Yusaf 385 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: Shrewzy about his documentary Three Promises. I want you to 386 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: tell me a little bit about the distribution strategy. So 387 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: you make the film, at what point do you start 388 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 2: thinking about Okay, I've made this thing. I'm making this 389 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 2: thing that I love. Now I'm going to need people 390 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 2: to hear it. At what point in the process do 391 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 2: you start thinking about who's going to distribute it. 392 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 3: It was the Gotham Institute. We had a fellowship with them, 393 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 3: so they had a week long program that was dedicated 394 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 3: to distribution and sales for first time filmmakers. Was perfect. 395 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 3: I didn't even know the levels of bureaucracy and confusion. 396 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: I just thought you could just get an agent and 397 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 3: they'll sell it for you. I'm not proud to say this, 398 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 3: but I am happy to say that I dumped that 399 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 3: on Maryelle. I'm like, hey, you're the producer. I have 400 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 3: no idea what's going on here. Because when we first 401 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 3: started working on it, she asked me, what do you 402 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 3: want to do with this. I'm like, I don't know, 403 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: just put on YouTube. And she's like, no, you're not 404 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 3: going to do that. So she started applying to the 405 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: grants and to the festivals, and we won't take into distribution. 406 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 3: You know. She was already plugged into the network. So 407 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 3: she had some names that she thought would like this film, 408 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 3: and we were reaching out. We got a lot of Oh, 409 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 3: this is a beautiful movie, but we're not going to 410 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 3: take it. In North America. No one was touching our film. 411 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 3: We got a lot of great feedback from all the 412 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 3: big names, small names, independent names, but no one wanted 413 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 3: to sell it. In the Middle East. We early on 414 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 3: got a distribution deal from friends that we met through 415 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 3: the Man International Film Festival and the Melmo Arab from Festival, 416 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 3: and they were supported from the beginning. So I trusted 417 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 3: them that they'll do their best, and they did. They 418 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 3: put it up on the largest local streaming platform, and 419 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 3: now Watermelon Pictures has done the same for us in 420 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 3: North America. Thank god. 421 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 2: Well, let's address the elephant in the room, which is 422 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: that the people were nervous probably distributing a movie that 423 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: touches on the Middle East conflict in any way. Right, 424 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: it's a third rail. 425 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: I completely understand that. I just worked so hard on 426 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 3: making this film apolitical. We don't talk about why the 427 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: NDI thought is happening. We don't mention Israel in depth. 428 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 3: There are no normative statements happening about the occupation. You're 429 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 3: simply living with a family going through a war zone, 430 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 3: and it's like even that you're Scared to Touch were 431 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 3: released in March twenty twenty three and Warren Gaza started 432 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 3: and it started getting a lot more interest from festivals 433 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 3: all over the world. Listen, maybe my film's not that good, fine, right, 434 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: but no other land just want an Oscar and they 435 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 3: don't have a distribution company. That's insane. 436 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: It depresses me the way that this topic, in any 437 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: form of journalism people worry about touching it in any way. 438 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 2: The preconceptions, the loadedness of it scares people, and I 439 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 2: understand why. But it also this makes me, from a 440 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: journalist's perspective, that there's stories that are probably going unheard 441 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: or untold or undistributed because of people's fear. And yeah, 442 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 2: I mean to your point, I would never say this 443 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: is a political movie. It's a movie about a family 444 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 2: and what life is really like in these situations, which 445 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: to me again is the most astonishing part of it. 446 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: We're so used to be bombarded with images of the 447 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 2: worst atrocities that one can imagine on social media, and 448 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 2: for me, one effect is that it flattens my thinking 449 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: about what's happening in Palestine to pure destruction, which, of 450 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: course on one level it is, but there's also a 451 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 2: fact in which life does have to carry on. People 452 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 2: still have to exist in some way, and we never 453 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: get to see that those aren't the images that we see. 454 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 2: And that's what I found so moving about it. Families 455 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: still have to exist, they have to move around, and 456 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: they have to be families. 457 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 3: Agree, And I think as important as it is that 458 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 3: these images that we're seeing that are coming out of 459 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: these places, because I do think that with the over 460 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 3: influx of photos and videos that are coming out of 461 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 3: places like us, and the limitations or the fears that 462 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 3: we were just speaking about in journalism circles and documentary 463 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 3: circles and film circles is slowly dwindling because at some 464 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 3: point you have to face the elephant in the room, 465 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 3: right like when the elephant is that big. But it 466 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 3: does kind of desensitize us a little bit and makes 467 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 3: it hard to continue watching because it's not even possible 468 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 3: to process five second clip of someone picking up pieces 469 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 3: of their baby. I'm sorry, but I know this from 470 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 3: deep within my heart that the film's coming out of 471 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 3: the Gazen people, where whatever their future looks like in 472 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 3: the next five ten years are going to be a 473 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 3: killing And I really hope that by then the world 474 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 3: is ready to watch them and to support them and 475 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 3: to distribute them. 476 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: I suspect they will. What I I hope that people 477 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: would get out of a movie like yours is you know, 478 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: you can understand through one family's experience, and it doesn't 479 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: have to be like a pure catastrophe. It doesn't have 480 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 2: to be the kind of images that we get bombarded 481 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: with on TV. Now you can feel how the enormity 482 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: of a conflict in a much more subtle way, which 483 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,719 Speaker 2: is what makes the movie so successful. 484 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: To me, I appreciate that. 485 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: I want to ask you a little bit about the 486 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 2: film festival's circuit and the kind of reactions you've got. 487 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 2: You were all over the world, right, you probably don't know, 488 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: but how many festivals and screenings do you think you had? 489 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 3: More than I could count and in countries all over 490 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 3: the world. I mean, the one that was a smack 491 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 3: to the face was the DMZ Film Festival between North 492 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 3: Korea and South Korea. There's a city there on the 493 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 3: border and my film was playing there, And how the 494 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 3: did my film get all the way there? 495 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: You know? 496 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I've been so grateful for the film of 497 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 3: all life that my film had. 498 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: Had Did people see the movie and the way that 499 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 2: you thought they would see the movie? In other words, 500 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 2: this is so personal and you have so much wrapped 501 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: up in it, and you created it. When people were 502 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 2: watching it and asking you questions or commenting on it, 503 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 2: were there surprises and how they saw it? Or was 504 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: it what you expected? 505 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 3: The surprises came when I noticed people were seeing beyond 506 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 3: basic questions. The usuals are how I came to make 507 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 3: this film and how I felt making the film, why 508 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 3: my mom was filming in questions about my mom, and 509 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 3: then my sister is freaking out the most, how is she? 510 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 3: When I got questions that where people saw beyond that 511 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 3: was where I really felt like, oh wow, I don't 512 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 3: know who you are. You live in a country halfway 513 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 3: across the world, and you're seeing that which I intended 514 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 3: for people to see. Little things about my dad, for example, 515 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 3: like my dad reading Harry Potter to us and kind 516 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 3: of his role and most people don't catch that right, 517 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 3: but few fathers out there did because they were paying 518 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 3: closer attention to what my dad was doing. But what 519 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 3: surprised me the most was I did not receive a 520 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 3: single negative comment or any type of passive, aggressive or 521 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 3: anything that was just pure love and support, especially in 522 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 3: North America. A True False Film festival was where it 523 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 3: really hit me. It's like a college town, like an 524 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 3: hour's drive from Saint Louis, I mean, Jesus country, right 525 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 3: like Billboard's saying, Jesus will save you and call this 526 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 3: number and Jesus will answer, and you know the Trump flags. 527 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 3: Not only did everyone there know who I was, which 528 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 3: felt really weird because it was a very small, intimate festival, 529 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 3: but they were all so supportive, and all these old 530 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 3: white Americans who were like locals from Missouri coming and 531 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 3: having in depth conversations with me about it and clearly 532 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 3: very propousity, various empathetic to me. That was mind chattering. 533 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 3: They did have a security detail for me at that 534 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 3: festival because they were getting some threats, but if they 535 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 3: hadn't told me, I wouldn't have noticed. 536 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: You've made a massively successful documentary. You're back in Palestine. 537 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 2: Are you making something now? Are you working on a 538 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 2: new documentary or was this a one thing you just 539 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 2: wanted to try it and now you're going to go 540 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: back to your day job. 541 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 3: I've been focusing on my day job since we released 542 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 3: the film more than anything, and I don't think it's 543 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 3: the end of my storytelling career. I don't know how 544 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 3: I feel about filmmaking again. I'm definitely open to using 545 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: that medium. I have more stories to tell. I have 546 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 3: my grandparents' stories to tell as well that they've archived 547 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 3: and they've written in places, and I'd love to find 548 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 3: ways to share them in the future. But I don't 549 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 3: like to depend on the creative process for my income. 550 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 3: Let's put it that way. When it becomes a need 551 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 3: for me to create, it's not from the heart anymore. 552 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 3: And I feel that way about everything really. But the 553 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 3: last few years I've been focusing on the startup here 554 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 3: of a consulting company and a nonprofit like think tank. 555 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 3: Me and my partner is locally. A lot of work 556 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 3: has been putting into that. You know, we're really trying 557 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 3: to give back to the community and to build a 558 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 3: progressive base for Palestinian news, to empower them and hopefully 559 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 3: see change in the future. But with the current situation, 560 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 3: it's hard to tell what tomorrow holds. I know for 561 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 3: a fact I'll be back to storytelling, though sooner or later. 562 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: Yes, do you think of three promises as a political movie. 563 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 3: Not at all. Like I said, it's a film about 564 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 3: a family living in a war zone, and it just 565 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 3: so happens to be a Palestinian family living in Palestine 566 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: under Israeli occupation. That's facts, it's not politics. 567 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 2: I asked, because I am so curious about the fate 568 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: of storytelling that feels at all political in this day 569 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: and age. So a little bit of what I was 570 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 2: talking about earlier, where anything that even touches on something 571 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 2: that can say that are third rail gets judged before 572 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: it comes out. This is true not just of the 573 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 2: conflict in Palestine. It's true of American politics when it 574 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 2: comes to Trump with domestic terrorism. You know, it's like 575 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 2: there's certain topics that are very hard to reach people with. 576 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 2: You can make it, but will people actually consume it. 577 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 2: So I wonder if you have suggestions or thoughts when 578 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: somebody is telling a story like the one that you did, 579 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 2: that some people are going to view one way or 580 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 2: another as political, how do you get them to still 581 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 2: pay attention. 582 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: Keep it row if it's coming from a place where 583 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 3: you're not virtue signaling, You're just like, this is how 584 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 3: it is. It's from an emotional place. It is from 585 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 3: the deepest places in my heart. Looked at this film 586 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 3: from a pure, innocent child's perspective. Don't add anything. There's 587 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: no need to send signals that occupation is bad, or 588 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 3: that Israel is mean, or that Palestinians have the right 589 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 3: to resist or whatever. This is simply a story of 590 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 3: humans living in a human created problem and they're dealing 591 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 3: with it, and the world needs to see it for 592 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 3: what it is. Let the audience decide what their politics are. 593 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 3: If they see your film and become more extremist, then 594 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 3: it's probably a problem with them, and no matter what 595 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 3: messaging you put into your film, that's not going to 596 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 3: change their thoughts. I think the most powerful thing we 597 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 3: have as humans is our ability to share our emotions 598 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 3: with each other, and that's what makes us social animals, 599 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 3: and so it makes us who we are. 600 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,239 Speaker 2: So ironic about that is that when you do let 601 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: people decide, the effect is often more emotionally strong, like 602 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 2: you're able to reach more people if you don't try 603 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 2: to make up their minds for them. 604 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 3: Exactly. 605 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: It's a truly beautiful film. I hope you are so 606 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: proud about it, and you said thank you so much 607 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 2: for doing this. 608 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 3: Thank you, Matt, I really appreciate it. 609 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: Three Promises is now available to stream in North America. 610 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: You can find out on Apple TV in Prime Video 611 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 2: by searching three Promises. Origin Stories is a production of 612 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 2: Campside Media, hosted by me Matthew Cher and produced by 613 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: abacar Adn. This episode was sound designed by Garrett Tiedeman, 614 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 2: theme music by Doug Slawan. Our studio engineer is Jimmy 615 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: Guthrie at Arcade one sixty Studios. Special thanks to Michael 616 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 2: Kenyon Mayer at Campside and Chris McLeod at Blue Elevator 617 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 2: Productions