Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Barth.
Speaker 2: Lazar, Blazarre and Lazarre. Hello, everybody, nailed it? Joined us
Speaker 2: Always buy an our bar Gas.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.
Speaker 2: Are you focused on this right now or are you
Speaker 2: lost in the in your your appearance on No.
Speaker 1: Sorry, he's saying that I am have a lack of
Speaker 1: height in a bad back. Half of that is true.
Speaker 2: The lack of height is definitely true. I didn't know
Speaker 2: about the back part. Hello. Hello, Hello, there you go.
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if you could hear me for some reason.
Speaker 2: All right, Hello everybody, Evan Lazar, Alex Bars, Patriots Catch
Speaker 2: twenty two taking you for the next hour and twenty five,
Speaker 2: let's call it. We got open locker room at at
Speaker 2: three thirty, so we're gonna try to to do this
Speaker 2: without rushing.
Speaker 1: Hang on, I know we're up against it. We may
Speaker 1: need to hit an alternate open though. We may need
Speaker 1: a you got you need a second? Okay, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just I feel it might be good this week.
Speaker 1: What I just have feeling it might be good?
Speaker 2: What might be good?
Speaker 1: The open.
Speaker 2: Excuse me? I I know where this is heading, and
Speaker 2: you you know that I'm already embarrassed by this entire thing.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that you're you're you're milking it now.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I don't think what's there to be embarrassed about.
Speaker 2: You're in a room full of people and you're you're
Speaker 2: getting singled out. I'm not like, I don't believe it
Speaker 2: or not as somebody that like talks and puts themselves
Speaker 2: out there for a living. I really I'm very socially
Speaker 2: awkward in that sense.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I can relate. And you heard it in
Speaker 1: the in the open from that two weeks ago. I
Speaker 1: was being singled out on ninety eight five for trying
Speaker 1: to get Bruce Springsteen tickets. Yes, but the difference is
Speaker 1: I I was called I said I had a bad back,
Speaker 1: and then I was short. You were getting complimented on
Speaker 1: your football knowledge by the quarterback of the New England
Speaker 1: Patriots that you'd like to talk about the scheme.
Speaker 2: So the laughing.
Speaker 1: There it is.
Speaker 2: Maybe in an off season show we can we can
Speaker 2: talk about what my fever dream offense is for the Patriots,
Speaker 2: if I if I was running the show. But Mac
Speaker 2: had his way, I have to I have to admit it.
Speaker 2: It would be a lot like what Billy Oh is
Speaker 2: installing for the Patriots. I would say, like I think
Speaker 2: Alabama Billiyo's offense. Uh, those two offenses together are basically
Speaker 2: where I would head if I was running an offense
Speaker 2: which is definitely not going to happen, by the way,
Speaker 2: And uh, I am a little bit flattered, a little
Speaker 2: bit flattered, but I.
Speaker 1: Know you enjoyed that a little bit.
Speaker 2: At the same time, I know that he's he's busting,
Speaker 2: busting my child.
Speaker 1: Just host wise juking teams to death.
Speaker 2: To death RPO of course, bunch of slants, bunch of
Speaker 2: underneath stuff jack monsters. Like my whole roster, my dream,
Speaker 2: entire Patriots roster would just be Deebo Samuels, right like,
Speaker 2: just a bunch of Deebo Samuels that can just run
Speaker 2: with the football. Take your low efficiency, jump outside the
Speaker 2: numbers and do those on your own time. Take your
Speaker 2: running game and do that on its own time for sure.
Speaker 2: More rule, let's do short passes, dink and dunk, and
Speaker 2: let's yack it up. That's how I would run the offense.
Speaker 2: And I think in a lot of ways. That's how
Speaker 2: Bill O'Brien is scheming this offense up, which is why
Speaker 2: I'm excited about it. But I don't want to talk
Speaker 2: offense off the top of the show, but I do
Speaker 2: have a take about the Patriots offense. But I want
Speaker 2: to start defense for a second, which is rare for
Speaker 2: us because we normally do this the total opposite direction.
Speaker 2: But the reason why I want to start defense, I've
Speaker 2: been thinking about this more and more as the weeks
Speaker 2: and days have have turned into now almost hours for
Speaker 2: the Patriots regular season opener on Sunday against the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 2: And this is where I'm at with this matchup, Alex,
Speaker 2: and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how you
Speaker 2: feel like this is going to go. The Patriots have
Speaker 2: had all off season now to prepare for this game.
Speaker 2: They've known that they were going to play the Eagles
Speaker 2: in since May when the schedule came out. They've known
Speaker 2: they were going to play Philadelphia and Jalen Hurts and
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Eagles since May. Now they that was after
Speaker 2: the draft, but at the same time, just stay with
Speaker 2: me here. They drafted three rookies at the top of
Speaker 2: the draft on defense that are athletic, that the second
Speaker 2: and third round picks can tackle, can chase guys down,
Speaker 2: can cover a whole lot of ground. And you have
Speaker 2: a number one corner now who can take aj Brown,
Speaker 2: DeVante Smith and hopefully cover those guys pretty well. So
Speaker 2: they got a bunch of help from the draft on defense.
Speaker 2: They're returning a bunch of their starters and regulars from
Speaker 2: last year anyways, and they're adding this on top of it.
Speaker 2: They've had all offseason to prepare. Show me something, Bill,
Speaker 2: show me something against a mobile quarterback, show me something
Speaker 2: against one of these new agey college style option heavy offenses.
Speaker 2: It's time to finally put to bed the concerns about
Speaker 2: this team against mobile quarterbacks and against offenses that run
Speaker 2: themselves like Ladelphia does. Show me something, have something, do
Speaker 2: something creative, do something different than what you normally do.
Speaker 2: We saw it last year justin Fields and Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 2: We've seen it in other instances in the past. I
Speaker 2: truly feel like now they have the horses to stop
Speaker 2: an offense like this. This isn't twenty nineteen when it's
Speaker 2: you know, great great players, but high tower van Ney.
Speaker 2: You know, Juwan Bentley like guys like that. They don't
Speaker 2: have the sideline to sideline speed and the athleticism in
Speaker 2: space to keep up with these types of offenses. And
Speaker 2: that was a systemic, you know, kind of personnel switch
Speaker 2: that they had to make. You have Kyle Dugger, Adrian Phillips,
Speaker 2: Jabriel Peppers, Jalen Mills, and Marty Mapu. Those five guys
Speaker 2: will call them safeties, call them defensive backs, linebackers, whatever
Speaker 2: you want to call them. Those guys should help in
Speaker 2: a matchup like this. Those guys should be out on
Speaker 2: the field in a matchup like this. I want to
Speaker 2: see the Patriots finally solve this problem. I have some
Speaker 2: ideas of how they might get there and can break
Speaker 2: those down. But that's my main thing about this is
Speaker 2: that you went into the offseason and you kind of
Speaker 2: loaded up on defense. We've talked about this a lot.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they haven't done anything to try to
Speaker 2: upgrade the offense personnel wise, but in particular defensively. We
Speaker 2: know that they feel pretty stacked on that side of
Speaker 2: the football. There you go, here's right out of the gate.
Speaker 2: Is one of your biggest tests of the season, and
Speaker 2: I want to see something exotic and creative up their
Speaker 2: sleeve for Philadelphia and their RPO package and they're read
Speaker 2: option plays and the different type of things that they
Speaker 2: do with Jalen Hurts. You have to find an answer
Speaker 2: to this eventually.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just on that you talk about the there's been
Speaker 1: I think a lot of talk about, oh, the Patriots
Speaker 1: can't beat a mobile quarterback. I'm not saying that's wrong,
Speaker 1: but another big issue in these are in some ways related,
Speaker 1: in some ways not as these AREPO heavy teams and
Speaker 1: according to Pro Football Reference, no team ran more RPOs
Speaker 1: last year in the Philadelphia Eagles one hundred and eighty five,
Speaker 1: more than twenty more in the next closest team, that's
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Falcons. Yea, So how many times do we
Speaker 1: watch the Miami Dolphins? Just are that RPO slant to
Speaker 1: Jalen Wattle? Yeah, just kill the Patriots. You're gonna see
Speaker 1: a lot of similar concepts on Sunday. And Yeah, between
Speaker 1: that and the mobile quarterback, these are things they've had
Speaker 1: trouble with. It feels like they know they've had trouble
Speaker 1: with it, Like based on the way they drafted, like
Speaker 1: you alluded to, I would also.
Speaker 2: Say based on the way they've practiced.
Speaker 1: Ye, that's what I think.
Speaker 2: We did see more of this, And I've talked to
Speaker 2: some of the players around the locker room this week
Speaker 2: and they have mentioned, Look, we're gonna see this almost
Speaker 2: every week now. Now not every quarterbacks Jalen hurts, Like
Speaker 2: next week they're gonna play to a totally different style quarterback.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, like you just mentioned, it's
Speaker 2: still an RPO offense on first and second down. So
Speaker 2: whether or not the quarterback's legs are a big time
Speaker 2: factor or not, they are going to be playing teams
Speaker 2: every single week that runs some sort of RPO element.
Speaker 2: It is now a part of the NFL. It's not
Speaker 2: you can't hide from it anymore. It's gonna be every
Speaker 2: single week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would say too, the Eagles don't just
Speaker 1: run a lot, they're good at them. I was trying
Speaker 1: to solid get this number. Yeah, eight point one yards
Speaker 1: per play on RPOs. The only team that ran over
Speaker 1: one hundred RPOs that had a better numbers the Dolphins.
Speaker 1: And it's marginal difference.
Speaker 2: And it's also a lot of it's a lot of yak,
Speaker 2: but yeah, yeah, it feels like this is something they've
Speaker 2: known they've got to be better at To go back
Speaker 2: to your opening take about the draft, I know they're
Speaker 2: hesitant to play rookies generally, especially in Week one. I
Speaker 2: and I've said this, I don't want them to have
Speaker 2: a base defense. When I say I don't mean base
Speaker 2: defense in the sense at like three four, I mean
Speaker 2: just like a you know, starting eleven these I don't
Speaker 2: want them to have that. I want players rotating in
Speaker 2: and out because the strength of this defense is the
Speaker 2: potential to be multiple, the potential to be versatile and
Speaker 2: not throwing the same looks repeatedly. That being said, and
Speaker 2: I feel that way big picture, I want Marte Mapu
Speaker 2: on the field Sunday. I want Marte Mapu on the
Speaker 2: field a lot on Sunday because this is the guy
Speaker 2: you drafted to go sideline to sideline and spy these
Speaker 2: kinds of quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Let's see it. Let's see if he can do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, I know that it's a big jump
Speaker 2: from where Marty maph is playing in college at Sacramento
Speaker 2: State at the FCS level to the NFL level, but
Speaker 2: there's so much great film of him at that level
Speaker 2: closing on quarterbacks and taking down quarterbacks that are trying
Speaker 2: to leave the pocket like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he can shoot out of a.
Speaker 2: Cannon and he can close in a hurry, and those
Speaker 2: are things that you need to be able to do
Speaker 2: to put pressure on the QB. I think that's the
Speaker 2: one thing that watching some Hurtz film over the last
Speaker 2: cooking almost week now because it had that extra time
Speaker 2: in the bye week, the one thing that you can
Speaker 2: kind of get him on is that he doesn't handle
Speaker 2: pressure quite as well as you know you would expect
Speaker 2: for quarterbacks. The MVP runner up, I think that if
Speaker 2: you can get him pressure under pressure, and I you know, look,
Speaker 2: third and long is tough for every team, but this
Speaker 2: team's efficiency relative to the rest of the league does
Speaker 2: drop in third and long situations. Now, it's so much
Speaker 2: said been done to get them into third and eight.
Speaker 2: So but theoretically, if you can, they're they're human in
Speaker 2: that situation.
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that I'm writing my leg keys
Speaker 1: to the game. They'll be up tomorrow ninety eight five
Speaker 1: of the Sports sub dot Com. My overarching theme of
Speaker 1: the whole thing is easier said than done, and I
Speaker 1: think that's the thing for this Patriots efense Bill said
Speaker 1: it this week. Let me pull up the exact quote here,
Speaker 1: Bill said this week, And of course my computers being
Speaker 1: weird something about where is he here. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's a big mystery about what they do. They just
Speaker 1: do it well. They're well balanced, so you can't overplay
Speaker 1: one thing without giving up something else. Yeah, we know
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do. Bill knows what they're gonna do, Drawed,
Speaker 1: Steve know what they're gonna do. They're just so freaking
Speaker 1: good at it that sometimes it doesn't matter. By the way,
Speaker 1: should be look familiar to Patriots fans. That's how it
Speaker 1: was run here for a long time. There are like
Speaker 1: you look and we'll get into some of the specific stuff.
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of elements in this game,
Speaker 1: a lot of elements in the matchup. You look at
Speaker 1: and you're like, if the Patriots can do this, they're
Speaker 1: gonna have a chance. It's not a matter if they
Speaker 1: have to identify it or recognize it or will if
Speaker 1: A then B, if B then C. It's just do this,
Speaker 1: but you have to be able to do it. And
Speaker 1: that's where that again the umbrella thing for this game,
Speaker 1: especially when you're talking about the Patriots defense is easier
Speaker 1: said than done.
Speaker 2: I feel like they should have the horses on defense
Speaker 2: now to be able to do it. They should have
Speaker 2: the personnel.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that they're going to shut out the Eagles, like,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, right, but they should have the
Speaker 2: personnel I think to hold the Eagles into the low twenties,
Speaker 2: which should give them a chance to win the game.
Speaker 2: And I really feel that strongly about that. The one thing,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to get too bogged down right
Speaker 2: off the top on this on the scheme, minution, all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and then.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be Catch twenty ten.
Speaker 2: But I didn't well know we're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2: I just want to kind of, you know, set up,
Speaker 2: set the table here before we get all into it.
Speaker 2: The other thing I would just say about, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: the one big thing that I would take away from
Speaker 2: what they probably should do game plan wise, and I
Speaker 2: want to explain why this isn't as scary as it sounds.
Speaker 2: I truly believe that they should be playing man coverage
Speaker 2: on early downs in this game. The one thing that
Speaker 2: really gives defenses a ton of trouble when they try
Speaker 2: to RPO go up against RPO teams is playing a
Speaker 2: lot of spot drop zone because just in theory, if
Speaker 2: you're a linebacker, like if you're Juwan Bentley in spot
Speaker 2: drop zone and you have the the middle hook right,
Speaker 2: you have the middle of the field zone and the
Speaker 2: short intermediate area eight yard zone, you have the middle
Speaker 2: hook and you have the B gap, you can't be
Speaker 2: both places right. So by rpoing you in that situation
Speaker 2: where you're in zone and you have a coverage assignment
Speaker 2: and you have a run responsibility, they can put you
Speaker 2: in conflict and they can make you wrong the entire game.
Speaker 2: Like you play the B gap, we're gonna throw it
Speaker 2: by your ear, you play the pass lane, we're gonna
Speaker 2: run it down your throat, You'll never be right. You'll
Speaker 2: be on your heels the entire game. So what a
Speaker 2: lot of college teams do, and a lot of teams
Speaker 2: that have been successful in the NFL at stopping RPOs
Speaker 2: do is they play a lot of man coverage and
Speaker 2: essentially they treat it as two separate plays. Like the
Speaker 2: seven guys in the box are playing run and the
Speaker 2: guys on the outside are playing pass. But you don't
Speaker 2: worry about the other responsibility. Right, So, Juwan Bentley, if
Speaker 2: you're the Mike linebacker in this scenario, don't worry about
Speaker 2: aj Brown, that's not your responsibility. Your responsibility is stopping
Speaker 2: to run. And now what you take out of it
Speaker 2: is the conflict element of it, like you don't have
Speaker 2: to make these post snap reads and try to play
Speaker 2: the cat and mouse game. I think that's the problem
Speaker 2: that the Patriots run themselves into, is that they're too
Speaker 2: passive against these RPO teams. Instead of trying to dictate terms,
Speaker 2: instead of trying to be the more aggressive team, they
Speaker 2: try to sit back and just read and react to everything.
Speaker 2: And they don't have the athletes I think in the
Speaker 2: year's past, and maybe they have those now, but I
Speaker 2: think most of all, these two teams are just too
Speaker 2: good at running the RPO element that it makes it
Speaker 2: really difficult. Now, the adjustments will come. They'll have to come,
Speaker 2: because what the Eagles will do is they might open
Speaker 2: with their RPO package, test the Patriots on that, say
Speaker 2: let's see what they got. Can they stop this? Because
Speaker 2: we know they've had problems within the past. The Patriots
Speaker 2: show that they can stop it, well, then they're just
Speaker 2: gonna start throwing bombs away to the ISOs on the outside. Right,
Speaker 2: They're gonna isolate AJ Brown on Christian Gonzales and it's
Speaker 2: gonna be a go ball down the field, which I
Speaker 2: don't know if the Patriots really love that matchup in
Speaker 2: that situation. So that's where the adjustments will have to
Speaker 2: come in, and you'll see more off coverage or zone
Speaker 2: coverage to protect against those things. But I think first
Speaker 2: and foremost, you have to come out and you have
Speaker 2: to play man to man. You have to be aggressive
Speaker 2: in the box, and you have to try to punch
Speaker 2: them in the mouth right off the bat and try
Speaker 2: to get them out of that sequencing. They are so
Speaker 2: dangerous when they are just running those option elements, whether
Speaker 2: it's just straight read option as a quarterback designed run
Speaker 2: or it's RPO and all the window dressing they'll motion guys.
Speaker 2: They have different types of route combinations they attach to it,
Speaker 2: you know, screens, slant flats, curl flats, whatever the case
Speaker 2: may be, and they have a bunch of different things
Speaker 2: to throw at you in that package. If you can
Speaker 2: get them into a drop back passing game, I like
Speaker 2: your chances better because then you can start spinning the
Speaker 2: dial on Hurtz, right, you know they can try to
Speaker 2: sky and doing all those different things that they like
Speaker 2: to do. This is a game for the Patriots defense.
Speaker 2: That's all about getting the Eagles off schedule. If they're
Speaker 2: ahead of the chains, they're gonna put up a ton
Speaker 2: of points. Yeah, But if you can get them into
Speaker 2: longer down in distances, if you can get some negative
Speaker 2: plays out there, or just some incompletes on first downs,
Speaker 2: right like, it doesn't necessarily have to be moving backwards.
Speaker 2: If you can get them off schedule, then you have
Speaker 2: a chance. And that's that's the that's the game right there.
Speaker 2: To me is can they win on first and second
Speaker 2: down often enough that they can get into third and
Speaker 2: long where they can really start to scheme stuff up
Speaker 2: and make things look different for Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 1: And to me again that goes to slowing down those RPOs.
Speaker 1: We can get in a coverag assignments in a second,
Speaker 1: but slowing down those RPOs. And our friend Taylor Kyles
Speaker 1: from seeing Us had a really good stat this week. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts lasses. Last year, Jalen Hurts led the NFL
Speaker 1: with a one to ten point eight passer rating from
Speaker 1: the pocket that plummeted to twenty four when he scrambled.
Speaker 1: So it's this weird mix of you need to be
Speaker 1: able to knock Jalen Hearns hurts off his spot, but
Speaker 1: you don't. You want him running, but you don't want
Speaker 1: him to run, if that makes sense. You want to
Speaker 1: create situations. You talk about the drop back passing game,
Speaker 1: he's not. I mean a lot of this are the
Speaker 1: receivers too, But like he can make players from the
Speaker 1: pocket you want. I think this is a big week
Speaker 1: where they got to make him uncomfortable, move him off
Speaker 1: his spot. He wants to set his feet, whether it's
Speaker 1: inside the pocket, whether it's outside the pocket, he wants
Speaker 1: to set his feet. Don't let him set his feet
Speaker 1: when they go to that traditional passing game and they'll
Speaker 1: run things like RPOs to give him more chances to
Speaker 1: throw from clean pockets. But it goes back to your point.
Speaker 1: If you can keep them off schedule, some of that
Speaker 1: stuff isn't as available.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that when you say, you know,
Speaker 2: to pressure him, the worst thing that they can do
Speaker 2: in this game, in my opinion as well, is the
Speaker 2: mushrush stuff. Like, yeah, I think that's the worst thing
Speaker 2: that you can do.
Speaker 1: You gotta get pressure with three or four.
Speaker 2: You gotta try to come after him a little bit.
Speaker 2: And I'm not talking about like zero blitzes and stuff like.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to say you should blitz him and
Speaker 2: that's a mistake, but you need to try to come
Speaker 2: after him a little bit with the front like Doud
Speaker 2: jude On a Neuja do their thing. Don't try to
Speaker 2: get those guys to just set the edge of the
Speaker 2: defense and keep them in the pocket. So the response
Speaker 2: to that is, all right, well, how do you contain
Speaker 2: Jalen hurts his legs. They're gonna have to.
Speaker 1: Use a spy And exactly, that's it that you want
Speaker 1: to force him out of the pocket. But then you
Speaker 1: it's basically cat and mouse. You need jude on a
Speaker 1: nucha to force him out of the pocket. But then
Speaker 1: you need a guy like martem Up who are like
Speaker 1: Kyle Dugger who's kind of there waiting when he turns
Speaker 1: that corner that he doesn't have a lane to suddenly
Speaker 1: run for twenty yards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And that's where I think in this game,
Speaker 2: that's Marty mob Who's role, right and that's a it's
Speaker 2: a situational role. To me, it's when they get him
Speaker 2: into the longer down in distances where they're expecting drop
Speaker 2: back pass. That's when he's gonna be on the field.
Speaker 2: So I don't think that Marty mop Who's gonna play
Speaker 2: necessarily sixty five seventy snaps on Sunday, But he might
Speaker 2: play twenty and they might be twenty really impoortly high
Speaker 2: impact yaps. Yeah, And I think the biggest thing with
Speaker 2: that too, with the spy element. And the Patriots usually
Speaker 2: do a pretty good job about this, but they you
Speaker 2: want to force him a certain direction. You don't want
Speaker 2: to give him free rein or like you don't want
Speaker 2: him to be able to escape anywhere he wants to go.
Speaker 2: But if you can close the arm side of the
Speaker 2: pocket so to his right and force him left or
Speaker 2: force him through the middle, it gives a guy like
Speaker 2: Mapho a leg up of oh, I know where he's
Speaker 2: gonna escape. If he's gonna run, he's gonna run this way.
Speaker 2: What you don't want is him having a scan from
Speaker 2: you know, tackle to tackle, being like where is he?
Speaker 2: Where is he? Then you play that cat in mouse
Speaker 2: game because Hurts will love that. What you want to
Speaker 2: do is try to funnel him in a certain direction
Speaker 2: so that Marty Mapho or I think mac Wilson. If
Speaker 2: they don't think Marty Mopho is ready for it, I
Speaker 2: think it might be mac Wilson. Those guys know, Okay,
Speaker 2: I can be a step ahead because this is where
Speaker 2: we're going. So I feel like all these elements should
Speaker 2: be there for the Patriots to execute at a pretty
Speaker 2: high level. I would like to see a lot of
Speaker 2: charging the mesh as well, which is basically different ways
Speaker 2: to make that mesh point where he holds it. For
Speaker 2: the read option. You want to accelerate the decision making there.
Speaker 2: You don't want him to just be able to sit
Speaker 2: there for two and a half seconds and read it
Speaker 2: out and play the game with the chess match. Make
Speaker 2: him make a quick decision, crash down, send a linebacker
Speaker 2: from the second level, but make it happen quickly and
Speaker 2: that way there he's making a split second decision versus
Speaker 2: being able to string out the play and hold the football.
Speaker 2: So I said we weren't going to get into the
Speaker 2: scheme minutia, but that that was I said. I was
Speaker 2: going to set the table first, but we didn't pant. Okay.
Speaker 2: The second thing I want to talk about was something
Speaker 2: that I actually mentioned it and I just remembered, So
Speaker 2: I'm glad I remembered off the At the end of
Speaker 2: the show last week, I said that I think this
Speaker 2: Eagles defense can can be had as well. And I
Speaker 2: know I'm hyping this up, like the Patriots have this
Speaker 2: great chance in this game. You were right that this
Speaker 2: is all easier said than done, right, So I'm not
Speaker 2: sitting here, not sitting here saying that the Patriots have
Speaker 2: all these advantages and all these types of things. This
Speaker 2: is the epitome of easier said than done. I for
Speaker 2: the most part, am not a fan of the Fangio defense.
Speaker 2: I don't like it. I don't like it. I think
Speaker 2: that for two reasons. One, I really feel like the
Speaker 2: Fangio defense is basically just saying, we have really good
Speaker 2: players on defense and we're just gonna rush four and
Speaker 2: sit in zone and make you beat us, right, like cool,
Speaker 2: like sick. They do a lot of disguising up top.
Speaker 2: I'll give them that. You know, it's it's too high
Speaker 2: out of the base of their defense, and then it
Speaker 2: becomes one high becomes six, like you know, quarter quarter
Speaker 2: half like they do that type of stuff, and that
Speaker 2: can be difficult, especially for teams that run a lot
Speaker 2: of route conversions and options, because is it six, is
Speaker 2: it four? Is it three? Right? You have to decipher
Speaker 2: all of that post nap. But this Eagles defense to
Speaker 2: me is they're gonna sit in zone. They played They
Speaker 2: played zone seventy one percent of the time. Last year.
Speaker 2: They hired the associate head coach of the Seahawks to
Speaker 2: be the defensive coordinator. This year, it's gonna be a
Speaker 2: zone team. They're gonna play a ton of zone. They
Speaker 2: have some new faces in the safety room, in the
Speaker 2: linebacker room that are gonna play big roles. The reason
Speaker 2: why I mainly don't like the Fangio defense as much
Speaker 2: as maybe other people do one they don't really scheme
Speaker 2: up the pass rush a whole lot, Like you just
Speaker 2: kind of know the four guys that are coming, and
Speaker 2: that's sort of the way that it plays out most
Speaker 2: of the time. They do run some like creeper pressure
Speaker 2: where they'll like send a linebacker and drop a guy
Speaker 2: off the line of scrimmage, but for the most part,
Speaker 2: you aren't getting a whole lot of exotics when it
Speaker 2: comes to blitz package right, Like, it's not like a
Speaker 2: Brian Florez blitz package or something like that. The other
Speaker 2: reason this is gonna shock you, This is gonna surprise you.
Speaker 2: What's the last Fangio defense? And I can break You know,
Speaker 2: rams run Fangio. Chargers run Fangio. The Broncos, of course
Speaker 2: when he was their head coach, ran Fangio. And you
Speaker 2: know this Eagles team runs Fangio. There's not a whole
Speaker 2: lot of teams that run the Fangio system that stop
Speaker 2: the run. They're just they just don't care. Like they
Speaker 2: play out of these two high shells. They I hope
Speaker 2: that the front four can slow up the run. The
Speaker 2: whole point of the Fangio front mechanics is that they
Speaker 2: want to slow down the ball carrier in the run
Speaker 2: game long enough for the defensive backs to rally to
Speaker 2: the football and make stops on the ball. But they'll
Speaker 2: give you the first four yards like that's gonna be
Speaker 2: there all game long. This Eagles defense, as good as
Speaker 2: it was last year, was twenty first in DVOA against
Speaker 2: the run. They were not a great run defense. And
Speaker 2: we've seen what's happened in I would say most importantly
Speaker 2: in Charger Land, right, the Chargers can't stop the run
Speaker 2: to save their lives out of the two high shells
Speaker 2: because they don't have the defensive lineman. They hates, they
Speaker 2: don't care the Eagles to have the defensive lineman. But
Speaker 2: you can run on this team. You might not register
Speaker 2: explosive runs.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: That's how they get you is they don't. They're they're running.
Speaker 2: They're allowing you those first four or five yards, but
Speaker 2: they're not gonna give up a lot of thirty five
Speaker 2: yard runs. They're gonna give up the shorter runs, but
Speaker 2: they're not gonna give up the explosives. I would run
Speaker 2: the Ball's not for the traditional reasons of like, oh
Speaker 2: we got to kill the clock and keep Jalen Hurts
Speaker 2: on the sideline. That is part of it. Maybe that's
Speaker 2: a secondary thing, but I I'm more concerned about putting
Speaker 2: up points than I am of keeping Jalen Hurts on
Speaker 2: the sideline. But the most part, I would run on
Speaker 2: them because I think that eventually they will adjust and
Speaker 2: they will try to spin the dial to get that
Speaker 2: extra hat in the box, and then you will get
Speaker 2: some single high structures that Mac can attack. So I
Speaker 2: want them to run the football offensively. I think you
Speaker 2: can run the ball against this front, even though it's great,
Speaker 2: and we already know that this entire offense, and this
Speaker 2: is sort of, you know, the big picture with the
Speaker 2: Fangio thing that I was discussing, we already know that
Speaker 2: this offense is going to try to hit a lot
Speaker 2: of short passes. Like, I don't think that this offense,
Speaker 2: even if they weren't shorthanded on the offensive line and
Speaker 2: facing the best pass rush in the league in Week one,
Speaker 2: I still don't think mac Jones is holding the ball
Speaker 2: a whole lot in this offense anyways, Like I don't
Speaker 2: think that's the way the whole thing is designed. So
Speaker 2: I like their ability to get the ball out of
Speaker 2: Max hands in this game. I think the biggest thing
Speaker 2: for them, if you're the Patriots offense that's gonna hold
Speaker 2: them back is what we've talked about all summer long,
Speaker 2: with the offensive line against this front, and that's the
Speaker 2: easier said than done piece, right, Like can you actually
Speaker 2: block it is a whole different question. But I think schematically,
Speaker 2: from a fundamental standpoint, this defense has more holes in
Speaker 2: it than people maybe think because of where they ranked
Speaker 2: last year in against the pass. I think they were
Speaker 2: number one pass defense in the league. They led the
Speaker 2: league in sacks. But I think at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, I don't like zone teams. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's too like. I don't think it's that grow yeah
Speaker 2: kind of like, I just don't think it's that sophisticated.
Speaker 2: Like if you have the legion to boom, then by
Speaker 2: all means like sit and cover three all games long.
Speaker 2: But these teams that play all this zone, like these
Speaker 2: Fangio teams do, their whole identity is to keep the
Speaker 2: top on the defense and limit explosive plays. Fine, like,
Speaker 2: so Mac Jones, I don't be throwing bombs this week,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know understand why. If you're the Patriots offense,
Speaker 2: that would be a problem for you, right, Like right,
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a deterrent for you. You don't
Speaker 2: want to hold the ball anyway because you have who
Speaker 2: God only knows who at right tackle trying to block
Speaker 2: us on Reddick. So you don't want to hold the
Speaker 2: ball anyways, and you want to be a death by
Speaker 2: a thousand paper cuts offense, So have at it. If
Speaker 2: they played too high, cover four, cover six, things like that.
Speaker 2: Run the ball and take your slants right like it's
Speaker 2: And that's where I think that this defense can be had,
Speaker 2: so that that's both sides of the ball for you.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you feel about the Eagles defense, And.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of the same. Just to put some
Speaker 1: numbers behind what you said. Everybody thinks of the Eagles
Speaker 1: as this elite pass rush and I'm not saying they're not.
Speaker 1: But they blitzed. Their blitz rate last year was twenty
Speaker 1: two point one percent. It's eighteenth in the league. So
Speaker 1: they weren't. They were blitzing less than average. It's not
Speaker 1: like it's not like the Jets who don't blitz, right,
Speaker 1: it's significantly less than average. And if we do some
Speaker 1: quick math on the air, Evan, and this is the
Speaker 1: kind of math I believe is a plic If you're
Speaker 1: not blitzing, how many players you're rushing four? And how
Speaker 1: many players will the Patriots have to block those rushers
Speaker 1: five at least? So you have an extra guy. You
Speaker 1: have an extra guy. Now this is where the easier
Speaker 1: said than done thing comes in. You talk about this
Speaker 1: a lot. It's kind of a saying with Offenselime py right,
Speaker 1: you can cover up one spot and be okay. It's
Speaker 1: when you have to cover up multiple spots. And that,
Speaker 1: to me is what the question is for the Patriots
Speaker 1: offense in this game. They're probably gonna have to cover
Speaker 1: up right tackle. I think we feel that even if
Speaker 1: Calvin anders like, we don't know what Calvin Anderson is.
Speaker 1: I don't want to throw him under the bus right
Speaker 1: away and say, oh, he you know, he needs to
Speaker 1: be compensated for, but he really doesn't played. He was
Speaker 1: on NFI all summer. Kind of shape is he and
Speaker 1: he hasn't been with this group. So if he's the
Speaker 1: guy you're covering up, fine, what does that mean for
Speaker 1: cold Strange because last year, so last year, there were
Speaker 1: three different spots over the course of the season they
Speaker 1: had to cover up at times his left guard, at times,
Speaker 1: it was center, at times it was right tackle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there were times where it was only one And
Speaker 1: that's when the offensive line looked. They were eleventh last
Speaker 1: year in pressure rate allowed, So they weren't as bad
Speaker 1: as it Maybe they were as bad as it seemed,
Speaker 1: but that's kind of a league thing. They weren't that
Speaker 1: much below the norm. Where it got ugly was right
Speaker 1: when David Andrews went out and now you have to
Speaker 1: help at center, but you were also helping it left guard,
Speaker 1: and now you're putting your left guard on an island.
Speaker 1: And as we saw, he struggled with that. Aul Strange
Speaker 1: struggled that or when it became a mess at right
Speaker 1: tackle and now you're shading coverage that way. Can Cole
Speaker 1: Strange of this? Can Cole Strange hole And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying he Kenry can't. We don't know. He didn't practice
Speaker 1: all summer. We have no idea what his year two
Speaker 1: jump is.
Speaker 2: He's gonna have Jalen Carter lined up over him, He's
Speaker 2: gonna have Fletcher Cox lined up over right. These are
Speaker 2: big boys coming.
Speaker 1: He needs to He needs to win those one on
Speaker 1: one essentially for the Patriots offense to really be able
Speaker 1: to move the ball. Cole Strange is gonna have to
Speaker 1: win one on one against Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis, Fletcher Cox.
Speaker 1: You add to it some of what you said. They
Speaker 1: can build in some mechanics that naturally slow down the rush.
Speaker 1: Don't like guys pin their ears back RPO play actions
Speaker 1: screens things like that that are a big part of
Speaker 1: Bill O'Brien's offense naturally, so that should help. And then
Speaker 1: there's also that element of all right, so it's what
Speaker 1: was it four verse five? How often do you want
Speaker 1: to go four verse six and you bring in Pharaoh
Speaker 1: Brown or you leave a running back into block, or
Speaker 1: you even go, you know, Tyrone Wheat leavedarian low tackle eligible.
Speaker 1: But that's what that's what it comes down to to me.
Speaker 1: Can the Patriots five be better than the Eagles four?
Speaker 1: Is that one player advantage enough to make a difference
Speaker 1: because the Eagles aren't gonna blitz a lot. They're not,
Speaker 1: and honestly, this is a game where to me, they'll
Speaker 1: probably blitz less. That's an average for seventeen games of
Speaker 1: twenty two point one percent. I would think in a
Speaker 1: matchup like this, and if there is gonna be a
Speaker 1: change they've talked about, they don't want to make a
Speaker 1: big change with the defensive coordinator. If there is gonna
Speaker 1: be a change, I would think you blitz less comings
Speaker 1: than that Seattle system. So you should have that five
Speaker 1: on four a significant amount of the time on Sunday.
Speaker 1: You just need to win five on four goes back
Speaker 1: to the to that concept. It's easier said, like I
Speaker 1: can say sit here and say, yeah, five guys should
Speaker 1: be able to block four guys. Well, when those four
Speaker 1: guys are the Eagles defensive front, it's a little different.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think you make a great point about
Speaker 2: to sigh and what he's going to bring over here.
Speaker 2: So Seattle, I believe, was the least blitzing team in
Speaker 2: the NFL.
Speaker 1: Second second least. The Jets were at fourteen point nine
Speaker 1: percent jet. I know their numbers are a little different
Speaker 1: than I'm a loyal PFR guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's fine. Seattle doesn't blitz a lot and
Speaker 2: they're both significantly low. But what what's astounding about how
Speaker 2: many sacks the Eagles piled up last year is that
Speaker 2: they were a middle of the road blitz team. They
Speaker 2: were dead last in the league in stunts, right like
Speaker 2: tackle end stuns or pick plays and things like that,
Speaker 2: dead last. And they were also near the bottom of
Speaker 2: the league and simulated or creeper pressure. So they just
Speaker 2: rushed for like that, That's just what they did. They
Speaker 2: just had four coming at you every single game, and
Speaker 2: they accumulated d Sachs by just rushing four guys right
Speaker 2: where you thought that they were going to be, and
Speaker 2: they still were able to get to the quarterback seventy times,
Speaker 2: which is incredible. That's incredible in itself. But this is
Speaker 2: one thing that I think gets a little bit flies
Speaker 2: under the radar because they were not local in Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: This is one of those things that, like we would
Speaker 2: talk about about the Patriots because we know the Patriots
Speaker 2: so well, but we started talking about the other thirty two,
Speaker 2: especially teams in the NFC, it might get lost in
Speaker 2: the weeds. Eagles fans hated Jonathan Gannon. They hated Jonathan
Speaker 2: Gannon not because of like the hard knock style stuff
Speaker 2: that we've seen from the Cardinals release a little bit of.
Speaker 2: They hated Jonathan Gannon because of how vanilla he was
Speaker 2: in the pass rush. They never blitzed, they never ran
Speaker 2: any simulated pressure, they never ran any sort of exotic
Speaker 2: pressure looks up front ever, and Eagles fans it drove
Speaker 2: him nuts. They thought it was a deterrent to their
Speaker 2: team that they weren't doing this. Now zone teams don't.
Speaker 2: It's a lot because they want to keep the seven
Speaker 2: guys in coverage right because you're covering grass everywhere, and
Speaker 2: if you start to take spa distribution, yeah, if you
Speaker 2: start taking guys out of coverage, then you're trying to
Speaker 2: cover space with six guys instead of seven, and you,
Speaker 2: guys get the idea. The one thing that the Seattle
Speaker 2: did a little bit more than Philadelphia did, and I
Speaker 2: think the side will probably bring with him to Philadelphia
Speaker 2: are creeper pressures, which is when you rush somebody from
Speaker 2: the back seven, so a linebacker or a safety or
Speaker 2: somebody from the back seven level, but you drop a
Speaker 2: player off from the line of scrimmage. So we see
Speaker 2: the Patriots do this all the time with Matthew Judon
Speaker 2: last year at times like that Raider game where Juwan
Speaker 2: Bentley is gonna blitz up the middle and Judon's gonna
Speaker 2: drop off the edge and replace him in the coverage.
Speaker 2: So you still keep your numbers in both the rush
Speaker 2: and the coverage the same, but the pressure is coming
Speaker 2: from a different direction than what you're expecting pre snap.
Speaker 2: So I think that there's gonna be some of that.
Speaker 2: All that is post snap diagnosis. Right, you have a
Speaker 2: lot of the time, like they'll say, all right, the
Speaker 2: left guard and the left tackle, you have two of
Speaker 2: the three guys over here. If two guys come, then
Speaker 2: you got to block both of them.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: If three guys come, the third guys on the quarterback
Speaker 2: or sometimes it's three over four, and we're gonna have
Speaker 2: the center open to that direction and then you guys
Speaker 2: have three. If fourth guy comes, then Mac is hot.
Speaker 2: Mack's got to get the ball out at that point.
Speaker 2: So those are the types of things that they will
Speaker 2: have to work through, I think a little bit more
Speaker 2: than what the Eagles did last year, but in general,
Speaker 2: it's what builds it. Their structure is their structure. They're
Speaker 2: not choosing.
Speaker 1: There's no you know, oh well, they'll disguise this, and
Speaker 1: we have to be ready if they show this look.
Speaker 1: It could be three or four things. And but this
Speaker 1: is where again it goes back to we've talked about
Speaker 1: this a lot. What is Bill of Brian's offense predicated on,
Speaker 1: Get to the line, identify what you're seeing, check to
Speaker 1: the play that matches the identification, and go. And if
Speaker 1: you do that correctly, odds are you're gonna have a
Speaker 1: successful place. It not gonna be a touchdown every time,
Speaker 1: but you'll move the ball. There's no the Eagles aren't
Speaker 1: disguising it. It's they're just again. It's that thing, especially
Speaker 1: on the defensive front with four on five and they're
Speaker 1: still they got seventy sacks because they are just better.
Speaker 1: It's not scheme, it's not disguised, it's not there. You
Speaker 1: gotta be better than them, period.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it is. They do disguise a little
Speaker 2: bit on the back end, but it's it's safety rotation,
Speaker 2: right like they always start in a two high shell.
Speaker 2: Every Fangio defense starts in that too high shell. They
Speaker 2: played most of their coverage snaps last year and cover three,
Speaker 2: so they'll start too high, and then they'll rotate the
Speaker 2: buzz defender into the box to play the crossers coming
Speaker 2: from the passing strength, and then they'll have the one
Speaker 2: high shell. But for the most part you're talking about
Speaker 2: just like post snap safety rotations. You're not talking about
Speaker 2: the Patriots. They they are diabolical defensively with their disguising,
Speaker 2: so they'll drop. I think what a great example is
Speaker 2: one of my favorite examples was Kyle Duggar's pick six
Speaker 2: against Miami last year. They showed Cover zero pre snap,
Speaker 2: it was Tampa two. After this snag right, they rotated
Speaker 2: the entire Kyle Duggar rotated from the line of scrimmage
Speaker 2: into the deep Tampa two hole and was formed to
Speaker 2: cover two defense from what looked like zero.
Speaker 1: The Eagles don't do that game you see anything.
Speaker 2: That they They rotate their safeties, but they don't disguise
Speaker 2: on that kind of level. But at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, as we keep saying, easier said than done,
Speaker 2: because the Eagles have a lot of a lot.
Speaker 1: Of dogs, just go block Fletcher Cox one on one.
Speaker 2: When I say a lot of dogs, yes, they have
Speaker 2: a lot of Georgia bulldogs, but they also have they
Speaker 2: also have a lot of dogs like they just also
Speaker 2: have a lot of really good players, and that can
Speaker 2: be problematic. All right, let's open up the phone lines
Speaker 2: that we can discuss this matchup with you guys. There's
Speaker 2: a couple more scheme things or you know, game plan
Speaker 2: things that we want to get into, as well as
Speaker 2: some matchups and things like that. But let's see what
Speaker 2: the people have to say, Alex, let's start with Sean
Speaker 2: and Vancouver. Sean, thanks for staying on hold. What's up, hey, Evan?
Speaker 4: Now that's your Patriots offensive coordinator. I have some plays
Speaker 4: that I want to run by you. When the Patriots
Speaker 4: are first goal, I'd like to bring in a jumbo package,
Speaker 4: try and rump the middle of it doesn't work, have
Speaker 4: the same personnel, and go play action pass role option.
Speaker 3: Right, what do you think?
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I appreciate the call, and yeah, if you
Speaker 2: want to send plays into me, because I guess that's
Speaker 2: the thing, And thanks Sean for the call. Evanlacraft se
Speaker 2: dot com. There you go, send them in, send me
Speaker 2: in the drawings, right, go draw them up and show
Speaker 2: me what you got. You mentioned six offensive lineman at
Speaker 2: one point. I actually really like that in this game
Speaker 2: for a couple of reasons. One reason is, as I mentioned,
Speaker 2: they play out of that too high shell. They can
Speaker 2: be run on. I don't think that they're gonna change
Speaker 2: what they do just because you bring a sixth offensive
Speaker 2: lineman in the game. So I think you could really
Speaker 2: open up in this game. First drive six offensive lineman
Speaker 2: and run it pretty effectively. I think the other thing
Speaker 2: is is that when you go six offensive line, you
Speaker 2: think about it is short yardage or a game plan wrinkle, right,
Speaker 2: Like those are the two different things that you think of.
Speaker 2: They can dial up play action off of that, and
Speaker 2: if Philly is gonna play zone, then they only need
Speaker 2: three routes, right, Like, they don't need to put five
Speaker 2: guys in the route if Philly's playing zone, because you
Speaker 2: can just overload it to one side of the field.
Speaker 2: So if you're playing cover three and you have the
Speaker 2: flat defender and you have the Cover three the deep third,
Speaker 2: if you run three receivers into that zone, it's two
Speaker 2: gas two.
Speaker 1: It goes back to that thing because it's like, you're
Speaker 1: right with man, You've got to match the concepts because
Speaker 1: you're trying to manipulate defenders, manipulate space. You're not doing
Speaker 1: that against zone because the defenders are going to do
Speaker 1: what they're going to do. Yeah, and it goes back
Speaker 1: to the thing where you kind of know where they're
Speaker 1: gonna cover, where they're gonna not. You know where you're
Speaker 1: gonna be able to run guys to and get them open.
Speaker 1: But you gotta be able to do it. Yeah, easier
Speaker 1: said than.
Speaker 2: Kansas City used a lot of flood concepts, so though
Speaker 2: what they what I really liked about Kansas City's plan
Speaker 2: in the Super Bowl is that they use a lot
Speaker 2: of motion to cover the flat right, So they would
Speaker 2: motion like Kadarius Tony or Sky Moore across the formation
Speaker 2: and he would run a flat route and that would
Speaker 2: hold the flat defender. Then the other side of the
Speaker 2: formation that would run a vertical and then they would
Speaker 2: just run like a flag pattern and fill it in
Speaker 2: with Travis Kelcey and they're just they're just overloading the
Speaker 2: zone on that side of the field, and then it's
Speaker 2: just a simple high low read for Patrick Mahomes. If
Speaker 2: the defender backs down off the flat and covers Kelsey
Speaker 2: on the flag route, then you just throw the flat
Speaker 2: and you just take their yards underneath.
Speaker 1: The defence and they'll and if they give that to
Speaker 1: you take it all day. And then we get down
Speaker 1: on the red zone, you're on the football.
Speaker 2: That's a profit. So uh, that's a that's a good point.
Speaker 2: Six offensive line the goal line, six offensive line. I
Speaker 2: don't I like that as well, especially because they're not
Speaker 2: going to have a full back. It doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: so I like them going six offensive line short yardage.
Speaker 2: One nitpick on Sean's call. Don't love rolling the pocket
Speaker 2: on the goal line. Don't like it because it shrinks
Speaker 2: the space that you have.
Speaker 1: To work I do think you need to roll. You
Speaker 1: need to roll a little bit in this game. You
Speaker 1: need to reset the pocket because again it don't do
Speaker 1: it a lot, and not saying like designed bootlegs for
Speaker 1: mac Jones, but when you move the pocket every once
Speaker 1: in a while to another one of those things that
Speaker 1: upsets the timing of the pass rush. But you can
Speaker 1: do that between the twenties.
Speaker 2: I just don't love of shrinking the field because the
Speaker 2: shrink in the red zone, the field is already so condensed. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so then when you start shrinking it now, all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, you're really only dealing with like a four
Speaker 2: x four buds. I'm with you, that's my philosophy. Unless
Speaker 2: you have a quarterback that's a threat to run it
Speaker 2: in and you can just turn the turn the rollout
Speaker 2: into a natural boot leg and score. Like you don't
Speaker 2: need to be rolling out in the red zone. But
Speaker 2: again I do hope they do some.
Speaker 1: Rollouts at some point two or three couple, but just
Speaker 1: give them one early so that the guys on on
Speaker 1: that side of the line. It gives the defensive ends
Speaker 1: something to think about. Hey, I can't get up field
Speaker 1: too quick because if they roll it out behind me,
Speaker 1: I'm out of the play.
Speaker 2: See. I like on the goal line. They ran a
Speaker 2: lot of this in training camp, which I really like.
Speaker 2: They have you know, two it's two by two, right,
Speaker 2: so they have two receivers over here and two receivers
Speaker 2: to his right, and they're usually in some sort of stack,
Speaker 2: and it's two different route concepts of what they're running.
Speaker 2: And then he just sign of looks at the structure
Speaker 2: of the defense and then decides which side of.
Speaker 1: The field to read which covery, you know, based on
Speaker 1: the coverage? Am I going with with concept? Air concept?
Speaker 1: Am I going left and right?
Speaker 2: All right? John's in Louisiana. What's up?
Speaker 1: John?
Speaker 3: Hey? Hey, heaven offense the coordinator?
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Maybe we'll see.
Speaker 3: But I want to go into the that you were
Speaker 3: talking about. A lot of people aren't talking about that.
Speaker 3: They loved Javon Hargrave. That's not gonna be an easier
Speaker 3: place you get a rookie, But I mean, like Javon R.
Speaker 3: And you're losing the guys. Who's the chunky. I think
Speaker 3: we would be able to pass on them.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think we lost them.
Speaker 1: I think that was the call. I'll say that they lost.
Speaker 1: They lost Hargrave, who did have eleven sacks last year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they have two other guys returning to go to eleven
Speaker 1: Hassan Reddick at sixteen. They also had a Jalen Carter,
Speaker 1: who a lot of people thought was the most talented
Speaker 1: player in the draft.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jalen Carter worries me and this guy'll.
Speaker 1: They'll be fine without Javon Hargrave. You want to He's
Speaker 1: a good player. But Carter Johnson maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: of a tougher replacement. We got talking about this, they're
Speaker 1: not if you can get it blocked, you're gonna get
Speaker 1: guys open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just.
Speaker 1: Gotta gotta get a blocked said done.
Speaker 2: Gardner Johnson is is an interesting replacement. So they'd signed
Speaker 2: Terrell Edmunds from the Steelers. Yeah, who's kind of like
Speaker 2: a Kyle Duggar like safety nickel type of player. And
Speaker 2: then they also have Avonte Maddox who can be more
Speaker 2: of like a natural slot corner. And so those are
Speaker 2: their two guys who replace Chauncey Gardner Johnson. But Johncey
Speaker 2: Gardner Johnson is a really underrated player. He can play
Speaker 2: safety and he can play nickel, and he's physical, So
Speaker 2: he can hold up against the run as well, playing
Speaker 2: closer to the line of scrimmage. That's a really key
Speaker 2: role in the Fangio defense because you're playing out of
Speaker 2: those lighter boxes and you're playing out a lighter personnel.
Speaker 2: You need to have a nickel that's willing to stick
Speaker 2: his hat in there in the run game. And Chauncey
Speaker 2: Gardner Johnson was able to do that. So Terrell Edmonds
Speaker 2: is a bigger, thicker guy. Like like I said, he's
Speaker 2: kind of like a Kyle Duggart type, so I think
Speaker 2: he should be able to do that as well. But
Speaker 2: then it has a trickle down effect on their safety group.
Speaker 2: Blaken Ship, right, is there are other safety Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: not the kicker. No, he's a guy that didn't play
Speaker 2: a ton last year. He's kind of like a rookie
Speaker 2: that they liked last year and had a promising first season.
Speaker 2: But they're putting a lot more on his plate this
Speaker 2: year than what he had last year. So it's gonna
Speaker 2: be interesting to see how that squares away. Patty is
Speaker 2: an agua on Patty. What's going on?
Speaker 5: What's going on?
Speaker 3: Jen?
Speaker 1: Hey, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I said this on Rooks Show. Yesterday, Ivan, you had
Speaker 5: already left. But I just have a good feeling about
Speaker 5: this week. Not good enough that I think that they're
Speaker 5: gonna win, but I think it's gonna be a lot
Speaker 5: closer than people think. And I'm gonna give you two
Speaker 5: guys that I think might have some surprising contributions. One
Speaker 5: of them is Mike the Sickie. I think he mean,
Speaker 5: I think it was you said I'm you earlier this
Speaker 5: week that you know, probably the biggest weakness of the
Speaker 5: Philadelphia defense in the middle of the field, their safeties.
Speaker 5: So I wouldn't be surprised, you know. Phil O'Brian's not
Speaker 5: a more hate to take pot shots, but he's no
Speaker 5: Matt Patrician when it comes to offense, you know, so
Speaker 5: I think he'll he'll know how to exploit that. And
Speaker 5: the other guy who I think might have a sneaky
Speaker 5: good game is Kayshaun Boody. I think, especially if DeVante
Speaker 5: Parker is limited and he doesn't if he ends up
Speaker 5: in active, I think one of those rookies you're gonna
Speaker 5: see have a big game. And I don't think it's
Speaker 5: gonna be top because I think, you know, I think
Speaker 5: Booty's more you know, plays more of that X role,
Speaker 5: not that he's in the mold of an X receiver,
Speaker 5: but I think he's He's more in line to replace
Speaker 5: DeVante Parker than Pop is. And that's all I got, guys,
Speaker 5: let's freaking go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for the call, Patty. I love that. I
Speaker 2: love that ending there, so quickly, let's start with Kasiki
Speaker 2: and the tight ends I want. I did want to
Speaker 2: talk about this. I definitely think the middle of the
Speaker 2: field can be had against his Eagles pass defense. Neither
Speaker 2: of the Patriots tight ends or Travis Kelcey. We know
Speaker 2: that Kelsey had a good super Bowl against them, and
Speaker 2: even though no one's Travis Kelcey and no one's gonna
Speaker 2: do it as high of a level as Travis Kelcey,
Speaker 2: Hunter Henry and Mi Kasiki aren't slatches. They're not talking
Speaker 2: about bad tight ends, so they might, you know, if
Speaker 2: Kelsey's out of ten, like, they might be executing it
Speaker 2: at a seven. But a seven is still pretty good,
Speaker 2: so I think that that can be an advantage for them.
Speaker 2: I like to get a SICKI shout because I think
Speaker 2: if you're going to run some of these zone beaters,
Speaker 2: you do want somebody that is a little bit faster,
Speaker 2: that can get into the voids a little bit quicker,
Speaker 2: so they don't close, you know, they don't react to
Speaker 2: it and close it. So I think that Kasiki could
Speaker 2: have a pretty big role in this game. Kelsey ran
Speaker 2: you know, he ran the double move on the touchdown
Speaker 2: in the Super Bowl. I don't know if the Patriots
Speaker 2: tight ends are going to run a double move.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're gonna The defensive line gives
Speaker 1: them enough time to run double.
Speaker 2: Yeah' fair too. I don't know if anybody's going to
Speaker 2: run double moves as well as the Chiefs and Travis kelcey.
Speaker 2: But Kelsey ran a lot of like post corners and
Speaker 2: different types of things like dad crossing routes and then
Speaker 2: the post corner off of it to play with their zones.
Speaker 2: And I do think that Kasicki and Henry can do
Speaker 2: that as well. Yeah, not at a Travis kelce level,
Speaker 2: but at a lesser extent that's still productive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still at a high level. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk a little bit about the offensive line.
Speaker 2: I buried the offensive line forty minutes into the show.
Speaker 1: I did a whole thing on them.
Speaker 2: What are you talking about Well.
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to. Like, I feel like we've ragged
Speaker 2: on the offensive line enough, all right, So here's my
Speaker 2: thing with the offensive line. I expect the offensive line
Speaker 2: to be about as fully healthy as you can imagine
Speaker 2: at this point. I think that they are going to
Speaker 2: walk on the field on the first offensive play of
Speaker 2: the game with from left to right, Trent Brown, Cole Strange,
Speaker 2: David Andrews, Mike on Wentu, and Calvin Anderson.
Speaker 1: He makes if it's not Calvin Anderson, it's a guy
Speaker 1: who's played at most thirty three NFL snaps unless they're
Speaker 1: going to elevate James Ferris right down.
Speaker 2: So I think it will be Calvin Anderson as well.
Speaker 2: Here's the catch. The obviously Calvin Anderson again, Son Reddick
Speaker 2: or Josh wat is a mismatch. Yeah, itself like that.
Speaker 2: That's that's one catch to this. The other catch is
Speaker 2: that I don't think all those guys are gonna go
Speaker 2: wide or wire on Sunday. And it's supposed to be hot.
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be humid on Sunday as well.
Speaker 1: I think it's supposed to rain, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe in the morning I think if that's I'm
Speaker 2: worried about, like the rain happening and then the humidity hitting.
Speaker 1: Right like after the rain, I'm seeing rain like all
Speaker 1: day okay, but still very humid. So it's gonna be
Speaker 1: like it's gonna be like they're opening Miami again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be hot and it's gonna be humid.
Speaker 2: And my guess is that they're not gonna have all
Speaker 2: five guys go wire to wire.
Speaker 1: And on top of that, they usually don't in Week one.
Speaker 1: It's the whole extension of the preseason game. They keep guys,
Speaker 1: they like to rotate and get different looks early on.
Speaker 2: So last year they played seven linemen in Week one
Speaker 2: in Miami. I believe Brown. I think it was Brown
Speaker 2: Andrews on when who played wired to wire. So those
Speaker 2: three guys played the whole game strange in the right tackle,
Speaker 2: who is Isaiah Win at the time, Isaiah Win? I
Speaker 2: gave way a little bit to to Ynika just and
Speaker 2: then I think strange.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was Farens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got in for strange. So I think that
Speaker 2: you're gonna.
Speaker 1: See did Isaiah Win kick inside? No? I think it
Speaker 1: was okay, it would have been fair because they didn't
Speaker 1: play any They only played for interior alignment last year
Speaker 1: was on when who Andrew's strange inference that was that
Speaker 1: no other interior linement plays.
Speaker 2: So they're gonna play a little bit. I think they're
Speaker 2: gonna play seven or eight guys, I think in this game,
Speaker 2: and it might be different. And what I mean by
Speaker 2: that is I think Mafi is gonna be the backup guard.
Speaker 2: He might he might swing both ways though no pun
Speaker 2: intended pun, you know what I mean? Yeah, he might
Speaker 2: play left and right. So Cole Strange needs a blow,
Speaker 2: he goes into left on when who needs a blow?
Speaker 2: He goes in that when who goes to right tackle?
Speaker 2: I don't think so, not yet, not yet. I think
Speaker 2: that that's a break class situation with who write tack.
Speaker 1: Think against this Eagles front, you could see that it's possible.
Speaker 2: But I how I get to eight is I think
Speaker 2: Mafi's gonna play a little bit at guard for stringing
Speaker 2: on one. I think someone else is gonna play right tackle.
Speaker 2: I don't know who yet, but I think it's I'm
Speaker 2: gonna Darian Low maybe gets in there at right tackle.
Speaker 2: I think Tyrone Wheatley gets in as the sixth offensive line,
Speaker 2: So I think that that's how you get to eight.
Speaker 2: But don't expect I I Alex, you're one hundred percent
Speaker 2: right that they usually don't go the distance week one anyways,
Speaker 2: especially with a banged up group like this that hasn't
Speaker 2: practiced a whole lot this summer, I would expect a
Speaker 2: pretty significant rotation on the offensive line. I think you're
Speaker 2: gonna see a lot of bodies up there. Yeah, I'd
Speaker 2: agree with that, But do you feel how do you like?
Speaker 2: I guess where is your your your panic meter with
Speaker 2: the offensive line at this point? Because we both give me.
Speaker 1: Both I mean this I I gave I said that
Speaker 1: whole thing before, right about five players verse four players,
Speaker 1: and I can cole Strange basically hold up one on
Speaker 1: one against some of those guys. I don't feel great
Speaker 1: about that. I think Trent Brown, David Andrews, mikeel Winner,
Speaker 1: you know what you're gonna get from those three guys,
Speaker 1: and those three guys should be pretty good. Everybody else,
Speaker 1: the other two spots, the backups that are going to
Speaker 1: rotate in cold Strange, you kind of have an idea.
Speaker 1: Everybody else here is a total unknown to me, because
Speaker 1: we literally didn't see any of them. Calvin the Anderson
Speaker 1: was not even cold strange, he didn't He took part
Speaker 1: in thirty minutes of a padded practice, didn't get into
Speaker 1: team drills and a padded practice, So we really don't
Speaker 1: know what his two year two jump looks like. Calvin
Speaker 1: Anderson was on NFI till practice is closed to the media,
Speaker 1: so we have no idea what he looks like. Vederian
Speaker 1: Lowe and Tyrone Wheatley just got here. You have rookies.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of unknowns. Yeah, that's you have two
Speaker 1: unknowns in the starting lineup and then pretty much unless
Speaker 1: they elevate Farens, which I don't think they're gonna do,
Speaker 1: not this week. All guys that really even played.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I feel better about the offensive line than
Speaker 2: I did ten days ago.
Speaker 1: And I think, all right, sorry, let me let me so.
Speaker 1: You said for the game in the season, So that
Speaker 1: was for the game for the season. So last year.
Speaker 1: I'll do PFF this time, not PFR, because they have
Speaker 1: the PFF number in my head. I go back and
Speaker 1: forth it whichever one better suits my argument. Right, that's
Speaker 1: the sports this. He's honest about it. Marine they were
Speaker 1: eleventh in the league last year in pressure rate allowed
Speaker 1: according to PFF, which you said, it's pretty good. It's
Speaker 1: all right, well, but like there's an offensive line shortage
Speaker 1: in the league. We've talked about this, so I don't know.
Speaker 2: This is why I don't like pressure rate, not to
Speaker 2: like go into the whole thing about it. But there's
Speaker 2: screens there.
Speaker 1: Okay, But here's my point, Like, they weren't the worst
Speaker 1: offensive line in the league.
Speaker 2: No, they weren't.
Speaker 1: I don't see whether you think they were the eleventh
Speaker 1: best if I think that's high. But yeah, I would
Speaker 1: say they were in the top twenty.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe twenty.
Speaker 1: Maybe twenty. But like they weren't atrocious compared.
Speaker 2: To They weren't.
Speaker 1: They weren't a complete But here's my point, they may
Speaker 1: not be better. I don't see how they get penny injury.
Speaker 1: I don't see how they get worse because four of
Speaker 1: your five starters are the same. In that fifth spot
Speaker 1: right tackles, it's the same thing. It's just different names.
Speaker 1: You're still doing a rotation at right tackle. Last year
Speaker 1: it was Isaiah Winn, Yadnika, just Connor McDermott. Who am
Speaker 1: I missing? Yodney yeah, all four of those guys. Well,
Speaker 1: Connor McDermott still here, but he's on IR. You're just
Speaker 1: replacing those guys with Calvin Anderson, Vederian Lowe, Tyrone, Wheatley
Speaker 1: and City. So yeah, that's it's the same. So it's
Speaker 1: the same thing. So I don't see how they get
Speaker 1: much worse. I don't think they're gonna be better, but
Speaker 1: I also don't think they're gonna be worse. I think
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the same thing. And when they were
Speaker 1: healthy last year, they made it work. It wasn't great,
Speaker 1: but they made it work. If they can stay healthy,
Speaker 1: I think long term they have the ability to make
Speaker 1: it work. But there are some things they're gonna need
Speaker 1: to do to sort out, to build chemistry before they
Speaker 1: get up to that point, and having to face this
Speaker 1: defensive line in week one it doesn't exactly make that easy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't think that they're worse. I agree
Speaker 2: with you. I think Cole Strange in year two will
Speaker 2: be better. I think Mike on One and David Andrews
Speaker 2: are still good. And Trent's Trent. Like, Trent's not an
Speaker 2: elite left tackle. I don't even know if he's a
Speaker 2: Pro Bowl left tackle at this point. Maybe he was
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen. I think that was really the only
Speaker 2: time he's touched that. But he's typically a serviceable left tackle.
Speaker 2: I this is not the show for it, and we'll
Speaker 2: have plenty of time to talk about this next offseason.
Speaker 2: They are looking for a left tackle next offseason. I
Speaker 2: wholeheartedly believe that. I know we're talking last year. I
Speaker 2: I know we have and I know we're talking a
Speaker 2: lot about right tackle. Right tackle is a lower floor
Speaker 2: position for them right now, but long term, Thanks for
Speaker 2: your service, Trent Brown, but it's time to move on
Speaker 2: and find something more stable.
Speaker 1: Mac Jones establishes himself as the guy, Yeah, they're I
Speaker 1: think it. Outside of Kyle Duggar, I think they're pretty
Speaker 1: good in terms of penning for agents. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: they can afford to lose Josh Hues, it wouldn't be great,
Speaker 1: But same with Mike Gounwin, who just the way they've
Speaker 1: drafted the last couple of years. If mac Jones establishes
Speaker 1: himself as the guy, you got to get him a
Speaker 1: blind side protector and a number one target. Yeah that's
Speaker 1: one and two.
Speaker 2: Keep saying that, right, and you know you can you
Speaker 2: can go clip me saying that probably in twenty twenty one. Yeah, right, Regardless,
Speaker 2: I like their long term outlook along in the offensive line.
Speaker 2: And I know that sounds a little bit contradictory some
Speaker 2: of the things I've said about the group in the past,
Speaker 2: but my whole thing was twofold one. I wanted to
Speaker 2: see the projected starting five actually healthy and out there
Speaker 2: and playing together before I panicked, right, like, we haven't
Speaker 2: seen That's fair, and forget about right tackle for a second.
Speaker 2: But we haven't seen Brown, Strange andrews On. We haven't
Speaker 2: seen that group.
Speaker 1: We haven't seen I mean, they didn't have both starting
Speaker 1: guards for a I don't think there was one open
Speaker 1: padded practice where they'd both starting guards.
Speaker 2: Now I know there wasn't, no, because my I want
Speaker 2: it was. It was on pup the whole time.
Speaker 1: No, I'm saying, like, either, what like every padded practice
Speaker 1: we saw this summer they had backups at both guard spots.
Speaker 1: You're saying outside of that that ten minutes before got
Speaker 1: hurt in the first one, which was basically stretched like
Speaker 1: the first competitive Revy til he got hurt, we saw
Speaker 1: him stretch. Yeah, doesn't tell you a lot about your twol.
Speaker 2: So that's why I've I've that's my my holding out
Speaker 2: hope about the group, right is that Okay, we really
Speaker 2: haven't seen the group, like we're panicking.
Speaker 1: You know what this is. It's the same logic I
Speaker 1: used for my two kicker. Take until you have a
Speaker 1: reason to disbelieve it, you can't. You can't disbelieve it.
Speaker 2: Fine, but we were panicking in the preseason, myself included
Speaker 2: about city. So and you know these guys that, right,
Speaker 2: aren't it are a really big time factor.
Speaker 1: But I think but I maybe I was alone in this.
Speaker 1: My panic in that was we're not that far away
Speaker 1: from these guys playing.
Speaker 2: That's fair, that's fair. We don't have to worry about that,
Speaker 2: hopefully this week, but we're not that far away long term.
Speaker 2: The other reason why I'm not as concerned about their
Speaker 2: law term outlook is I think that Bill O'Brien and
Speaker 2: I the jury for me is still out. On Adrian Clem.
Speaker 2: I feel the same way that I feel in some
Speaker 2: respects about the quarterback as I do about Adrian Klem.
Speaker 2: I think Mac Jones can play, Okay, I think Adrian
Speaker 2: Clem can coach the offensive line, but do. I can
Speaker 2: I sit here and know for definitively for a fact
Speaker 2: that Adrian Klem is a good offensive line coach and
Speaker 2: Mac Jones is a franchise quarterback. No, I can't. I
Speaker 2: can't say that. Right is very sadly, But I think
Speaker 2: Adrian Clem will have that group ready to go and
Speaker 2: we'll be okay offensive line. And I this is a
Speaker 2: scarnekism that I stole from him. So this is not
Speaker 2: like some words of wisdom from me. Yeah, Scarnekie always
Speaker 2: talks about how that's the one group on the field
Speaker 2: where it's all about all five guys being on a string.
Speaker 2: You can punch above your weight if you have all
Speaker 2: five guys on a string on the offensive page. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're picking up blitzes together, and you're sliding together,
Speaker 2: and you're conboying or double teaming blocks together, you can
Speaker 2: do it with lesser talent.
Speaker 1: This is these seeing it through the same eyes concept.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can do it with lesser talent. You can.
Speaker 2: So if right tackles an issue, but Calvin Anderson and
Speaker 2: Mike on Winnu and David Andrews on the right side
Speaker 2: of things, they got it buttoned up, then it will
Speaker 2: be a lot cleaner than just Calvin Anderson being an
Speaker 2: anchor to the whole group. So that's the difference between
Speaker 2: this year and last year to me is they have
Speaker 2: pre snap ability now to change protections and get the
Speaker 2: protections in the right order, and that's going to be
Speaker 2: mostly ninety percent of that's going to be on the
Speaker 2: quarterback and the other ten percent will be on Andrews.
Speaker 2: And they have a lot better fundamental understanding of just
Speaker 2: the fundamentals, the basic principles of the offense, and that
Speaker 2: I think will hopefully make this group better than the
Speaker 2: sum of its parts, right like.
Speaker 1: It, Well, it doesn't feel like that's what their plan was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're investing. We were waiting for them to invest in
Speaker 1: a tackle and instaid. They invested in the coach to
Speaker 1: elevate the players they had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a big difference when it comes to
Speaker 2: protection calls. Most of the Patriots' protection calls that aren't
Speaker 2: play action or seventies protections, they call them and they
Speaker 2: have different you know, they'll call different numbers in the
Speaker 2: seventies and that's a different type of protection and that
Speaker 2: ability to come to the line of scrimmage. David Andrews
Speaker 2: will call out the front right, He'll say four down,
Speaker 2: three down, something like that, and then to be able
Speaker 2: to adapt pre snap to what exactly the defense is
Speaker 2: showing you to get it blocked properly. They weren't doing
Speaker 2: stuff like that last year. They were coming to the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage and snapping the ball and whatever happened
Speaker 2: happened right like that was the approach. Unfortunately last year.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be a little bit different, and I
Speaker 2: think that's gonna help them a lot. So I'm not
Speaker 2: concerned about like the long term outlook. With that being said,
Speaker 2: this game on Sunday does have the potent. The look
Speaker 2: kind of rough, yes, and we have to grow with
Speaker 2: the growing paints. You know, it's gonna be it could
Speaker 2: be tough. This is the best pass rush in the
Speaker 2: NFL by a country mile.
Speaker 1: This is so I looked this up earlier. Not only
Speaker 1: did the best pass rush in the NFL, it's seventy
Speaker 1: sacks last year, It's tied for third most by a
Speaker 1: team in NFL history. Yeah, do you know how many
Speaker 1: times a team has had more than sixty sacks in
Speaker 1: a season since two thousand No? Three? The two thousand Saints, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is kind of random.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very rare.
Speaker 1: The two thousand and six Chargers, who it's like the
Speaker 1: Chaine Merriman those teams were filthy, and then the Eagles
Speaker 1: last year. That's so there's a bunch of teams in
Speaker 1: there in like the in the eighties and nineties that
Speaker 1: had like sixty something sacks, but since two thousand only
Speaker 1: two teams and neither of those teams reached the seventies.
Speaker 1: It's sixty and sixty six for the Saints and Chargers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Eagles got to seventy. This isn't just the best pass
Speaker 1: rush in the league. This is the best pass rush
Speaker 1: the NFL is seen in probably two decades. Yeah, definitely
Speaker 1: in built. Let's put this way, this is the best
Speaker 1: pass rush Bill Belichick has ever faced. It had uh
Speaker 1: as the head coach of the Patriots of the I.
Speaker 2: Almost very dramatic.
Speaker 1: Well, no, because I remember he was to coaching the
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever faced the Giants when
Speaker 1: he was the head coach of the Browns, but if
Speaker 1: you faced the.
Speaker 2: Tale, that's so don't put anybody in Lawrence.
Speaker 1: That's what. But that's why I caught myself this is
Speaker 1: the best pass rush, and it's that Bill Belichick has
Speaker 1: ever faced as the head coach of the Patriots.
Speaker 2: I like that. I like that is a very good rush.
Speaker 2: As much as I picked on them for being vanilla
Speaker 2: in their pass rush, they can be because that's the
Speaker 2: thing right now they have.
Speaker 1: The Patriot I mean, they did it more on They
Speaker 1: did it the times on defense, the twenty fourteen defenses
Speaker 1: like this, but they did this on offense. You know
Speaker 1: when you had Brady Moss, Welk or those teams were
Speaker 1: even like the Edelman Gronk teams. Yeah, you pretty much
Speaker 1: knew what they were gonna do. It wasn't really a secret.
Speaker 1: Uh the drive against the Chiefs, everybody knew what those
Speaker 1: third down play calls were. Everybody. Yeah, they're they're either
Speaker 1: going up to see them to Gronk or they're they're
Speaker 1: hitting Edelman on the end. Yeah, we knew it. They
Speaker 1: knew it, The Chiefs knew it, the fans knew it.
Speaker 1: And what did they do They went up the field
Speaker 1: doing it. Why because they were just better.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna execute, putting in it by the end.
Speaker 1: No no, no, But but just as as a cop, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I kind of got off throws. But that's
Speaker 1: sort of what the Eagles defense is. We know they're
Speaker 1: gonna put four guys hands in the dirt. Yeah, arebody
Speaker 1: else gonna drop back in the coverage're gonna but four
Speaker 1: guys hands in the dirt, and they're not gonna run
Speaker 1: around and twist, and they're gonna come right at you.
Speaker 1: We know it, they know it. But can you be
Speaker 1: better than them? Can you stop them from doing it?
Speaker 1: Because most people can't.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I got some other personnel questions for you,
Speaker 2: because we've we've we've talked to scheme through. I like
Speaker 2: that part of our of what we've done here. We
Speaker 2: we we've covered our bases there. Let's talk about some
Speaker 2: of the guys that are gonna play in some of
Speaker 2: the combinations we might see elsewhere besides the offensive line.
Speaker 2: Start in the backfield. This is interesting to all the
Speaker 2: fantasy people out there, So you canot.
Speaker 1: You're gonna say it's interesting, interesting to you, please.
Speaker 2: And we're gonna we can talk about this, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: for all the fantasy people out there. Ormandra, steven Zeke Elliott,
Speaker 2: do you, first of all, do you believe Ormandre that
Speaker 2: he actually has no idea how they're gonna rotate them
Speaker 2: on Sunday.
Speaker 1: Mmmm, live omission.
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. I I think that's a half truth.
Speaker 2: Can we see that? That's God, that's the term I
Speaker 2: was looking for.
Speaker 1: Thank you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, half truth.
Speaker 1: Anyways, he doesn't he doesn't know who's getting the first snap,
Speaker 1: but he knows who's going out for what package and whatever.
Speaker 2: So how do you see them using Remondre and Zeke?
Speaker 1: I would so some of this is like how far
Speaker 1: along a Zeke in the playbook? Yeah, if let's just
Speaker 1: assume for sex Zeke's fully caught up and he's good
Speaker 1: to go in the full playbooks available. I would love
Speaker 1: to see them go back to what they did before
Speaker 1: time on Gmer got hurt last year and split it
Speaker 1: by drive instead of by situations.
Speaker 2: So you don't care if who's on the path field
Speaker 2: on a passing play, run play. You just want them
Speaker 2: to go drive by drive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like that better. I think there's less tells.
Speaker 1: I think it the backs they have. It makes the
Speaker 1: most of their skill sets. You have two well rounded backs,
Speaker 1: like I want Ramondre on the field in both situations.
Speaker 1: I want Zeke on the field and both situations. That's it.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I go one for one. I'm probably
Speaker 1: going like for every two Remandre drives Zeke or something
Speaker 1: like that. The other wrinkle in this and I don't
Speaker 1: know if you want to get in this later, but
Speaker 1: I kind of need to bring it up now for
Speaker 1: this take. If we're gonna do who are we thinking
Speaker 1: for practice squad elevations? Zappi is gonna be one. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine Mac Crowl's ready. Okay, so Zapi's one. I'm
Speaker 1: looking at Time Montgomery, yep.
Speaker 2: And I'm surprised Time Montgomery's not on the fifty three
Speaker 2: men round.
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit too. And some of what we
Speaker 1: talked about earlier in terms of all right, this quick
Speaker 1: pass stuff, the screens, where can you beat the Eagles
Speaker 1: in coverage? Their linebackers are not great coverage linebackers you're
Speaker 1: gonna have if you're gonna have an ability to throw
Speaker 1: the ball to the running back in this game. Like
Speaker 1: I said, the other two guys can do it. Ramondres
Speaker 1: he can do it that like two minute drill where
Speaker 1: you really gotta get going. Time Montgomery is still the
Speaker 1: best receiving back on the roster agree when he's healthy.
Speaker 1: So I to me, it's like two here's how I
Speaker 1: would do it by drive two Remandree drives for every
Speaker 1: Zeke drive. Okay, but when you get into the two
Speaker 1: minute give me time Montgomery okay.
Speaker 2: So I I'm similar, I maybe would just break it.
Speaker 2: I personally, I still feel like Zeke is here to
Speaker 2: be Damien Harris, like what they envision the split between
Speaker 2: her Madre and Damien Harris being before Damien Harris got banged.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You don't think that they're gonna take advantage of what
Speaker 1: he doesn't pass pro. You don't think that's especially we
Speaker 1: just talked about all that on the offensive line. You
Speaker 1: don't Dan Harris didn't do any of that.
Speaker 2: I do to respect, but maybe not in the same
Speaker 2: way that other people do. Where I think he's gonna
Speaker 2: be playing on third down. I think what they're gonna
Speaker 2: do with Zeke and pass pro is we can run
Speaker 2: play action and then Zeken blitz scan after we run
Speaker 2: the fake and pick guys up late, okay, and try
Speaker 2: to keep Mac clean that way. And I also think
Speaker 2: that if they get certain personnel on the field, it
Speaker 2: might be a situation where they're in run personnel, but
Speaker 2: they actually throw out a run personnel and then Zeke
Speaker 2: becomes either a block or a receiver. To that respect,
Speaker 2: I still feel like third down is going to come
Speaker 2: down to Remandre or Thy Montgomery. I just feel like
Speaker 2: Remandre is too in tune with the quarterback to take
Speaker 2: him off the field on third down.
Speaker 1: Well, we don't know. We don't know where Zeke's at
Speaker 1: with Mac.
Speaker 2: We don't, but I know that him and Ramandre have
Speaker 2: a great report. Okay, that's fair, and that's where I
Speaker 2: worry about anybody but Remandre being on third down because
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, if it's third and three,
Speaker 2: it's third and four and he needs that. James White, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I still think that he feels the most comfortable with
Speaker 2: it being Remandre. That might not necessarily mean that I
Speaker 2: think Montgomery is a quicker, better route runner than Remandre is,
Speaker 2: but in terms of chemistry and continuity, I think Mac
Speaker 2: likes throwing the ball to Ramandre Stevens.
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to see Remonder playing seventy
Speaker 1: percent of the Stamps again.
Speaker 2: I don't think I will, really. I don't think the
Speaker 2: way that they're going to cut into his workload is
Speaker 2: going to be on first and second down. I think
Speaker 2: with Zeke and him will trade off first and second
Speaker 2: down carries and then Remandre will play on third. Now
Speaker 2: I also agree that I feel like Time Montgomery will
Speaker 2: be elevated from the practice squad and play a role
Speaker 2: in this game. The one other thing that I thought of,
Speaker 2: you know, just from a game plan standpoint, everybody always
Speaker 2: throws tempo out there like it's this cure all, like
Speaker 2: let's run, hurry up, and it's gonna fix all of
Speaker 2: our problems and every I actually do think that there
Speaker 2: is some advantage of it in this game simply because
Speaker 2: the Eagles, Uh, they run what they run out of
Speaker 2: certain personnel packages. So if you have certain groupings on
Speaker 2: the field for them defensively, you're kind of gonna know
Speaker 2: what defensive structure they're going to be in.
Speaker 1: And if you get a look that you know you
Speaker 1: can be, you can force them essentially to.
Speaker 2: Stay in that look. So that's where I think Time
Speaker 2: Montgomery's role could play into this game is if they
Speaker 2: do want to hit a drive where they hit the
Speaker 2: NASCAR package as Josh McDaniels used to call it, and
Speaker 2: and run some hurry up time Montgomery. He can play
Speaker 2: flexed out and he can play out of the backfield. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it gives them a kind of a Swiss army knife,
Speaker 2: Like I love you What position is he is? He
Speaker 2: running back? Is your receiver.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the game to do it,
Speaker 1: just because of the Eagles front and what it is.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not opposed to some two running back
Speaker 1: sets this year, as long as I don't think you
Speaker 1: need remondering Sea that's another thing in time, But like, yeah,
Speaker 1: where where you have Montgomery? Montgomery? But like he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's a receiver. You know he's gonna go line up
Speaker 1: in the spot. You know he's gonna go run arount.
Speaker 1: But the other team doesn't know that when you're in
Speaker 1: the huddle. So I wouldn't be opposed seeing them do
Speaker 1: some of that. I just in this game, I feel
Speaker 1: like the Eagles are they can handle something like that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, when you get to a team like the Jets.
Speaker 1: I think when you get to a team like the Raiders,
Speaker 1: if Montgomery is still healthy by then, seeing some of
Speaker 1: that stuff would be would would make I know you
Speaker 1: hate twenty one.
Speaker 2: I do mainly twenty. The main reason why, and and
Speaker 2: you know everybody that is listening probably has hurt it
Speaker 2: as Pony most of the time. The two running backs.
Speaker 2: There's two things that don't typically statistically bear out the
Speaker 2: way people think.
Speaker 1: Here comes offensive coordinator revels.
Speaker 2: Are hurry up is one. Everybody thinks that you run
Speaker 2: hurry up and it solves all your problems, right like
Speaker 2: you just run tempo, no huddle, Oh, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2: This is gonna fix everything. It seldom does the US thought.
Speaker 2: The other thing that is hasn't been statistically productive is pony.
Speaker 2: Like they even going back to Brady with like Rex
Speaker 2: Burkehead and James White, they would do it a little bit. Statistically,
Speaker 2: it doesn't yield results, Like it's not an efficient package.
Speaker 2: Is Bill O'Brien different? And can he get more out
Speaker 2: of it than somebody else could? Like we'll see.
Speaker 1: Like maybe that's why I also think Time Montgomery's a
Speaker 1: unique player in this because it's not he's not really
Speaker 1: a running back.
Speaker 2: What I love about Time Montgomery is that we know
Speaker 2: O'Brien loves empty. Yes, you know we're gonna see some
Speaker 2: empty And what they can do is they can go
Speaker 2: they can be run personnel, or they could be empty
Speaker 2: and they can blur the lines.
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I met.
Speaker 2: So if they get them like a nickel and they
Speaker 2: like the grouping that they have out there to pass
Speaker 2: the ball, they can go five wide empty against their
Speaker 2: base nickel front. Then they can run the ghetto under
Speaker 2: center and run the ball on the next play right
Speaker 2: like and they can go back and forth like that,
Speaker 2: which can be really helpful.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying I think you can pound that
Speaker 1: because Ramondre can line up. I mean he's not the
Speaker 1: receiver Time Montgomery is, but he can line up outside
Speaker 1: the formation. And if you come out with Remandre and
Speaker 1: Time Montgomery, you can you could come out. You know.
Speaker 1: The one I've really talked to, and this is me
Speaker 1: getting a little ahead of myself and getting a little excited,
Speaker 1: is twenty two with Time Montgomery Mi Kasiki, Because do
Speaker 1: you have two tight ends, two running backs? Is it
Speaker 1: really eleven with Mike Kasiki playing wide receiver and Time
Speaker 1: Montgomery playing receiver? Like, Yeah, you can come out if
Speaker 1: you have Mike Kasiki and Time Montgomery in the huddle,
Speaker 1: you can come out and goal line, you can come
Speaker 1: out in five wide.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm hoping they're gonna be able to
Speaker 2: do because so much of what I want to talk
Speaker 2: about their receivers Depson who he think is going to
Speaker 2: play there, they don't have We know this, and we
Speaker 2: don't have to beat a dead horse, but they don't
Speaker 2: have an aj Brown or DeVante's But they don't even
Speaker 2: have one of those guys. And Eagles have too, right, Like,
Speaker 2: they don't have one of those guys. But what O'Brien's
Speaker 2: really effective at doing is using personnel and formations to dictate,
Speaker 2: you know, to find openings and create openings and defenses.
Speaker 2: And so there's a big advantage I think to their
Speaker 2: twelve personnel package quote unquote with Hunter, Henry and Kasiki
Speaker 2: and Ormandre. That can be empty or that can be
Speaker 2: under centered traditional twelve right, and you just don't know
Speaker 2: the difference until you see it, and that I think
Speaker 2: can be effective. Talking about the receivers, we know Devonte
Speaker 2: Parker's dealing with the knee injuries on the injury report yesterday.
Speaker 2: With that, so we know officially that it's a knee
Speaker 2: that's been hurting him. But let's just for argument's sake,
Speaker 2: because we don't. We don't know. You can't have a
Speaker 2: crystal ball and know if DeVante Parker is going to
Speaker 2: be one hundred percent, is going to play whatever, What
Speaker 2: do you expect to see the most used receivers to
Speaker 2: be I think is the best way to put it.
Speaker 1: And then there's that whole thing about ju Jusney too.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'm not worried about ju Jusney.
Speaker 1: I don't know about I'll just say this, it's Kendrick
Speaker 1: Borne time. He was the best receiver this summer. He's healthy.
Speaker 1: He you talk about the chemistry with Mac. It's nothing
Speaker 1: against Juju or Parker, but he's been here the longest.
Speaker 1: We know him and Mac get along. Well, give me
Speaker 1: Kendrick Borne in this game. Give me a full dose
Speaker 1: of kenrin.
Speaker 2: You had to guess, if you had to guess when
Speaker 2: we get the snap counts on Monday morning, who is one, two,
Speaker 2: three out of the receiver.
Speaker 1: I think just if park let me. I need to
Speaker 1: see the injury report today, but I do think there's
Speaker 1: clearly something going on with Parker. They're gonna be president.
Speaker 1: I think Juju is still number one because that's just
Speaker 1: they paid him, and he's the slot guy. But like,
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna be in the high nineties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think a percentage in terms of percentage, right, sad percentage.
Speaker 1: I think Bourne could end up high eighties. Loan nineties
Speaker 1: you have me too, and then Parker probably comes in
Speaker 1: somewhere around seventy sixty seventy how much of the rookies
Speaker 1: Tomorrio Douglas probably guy that gets a handful of snaps
Speaker 1: called ten f teen snaps, maybe a specific package like
Speaker 1: he'll all be in the same formation. Kaishan Boody to me,
Speaker 1: is still the somebody's got to get hurt for him
Speaker 1: to get on the field significantly. He'll play on special
Speaker 1: teams and maybe he gets a snap or two here
Speaker 1: or there, but it's nothing against him as a player.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this to Mario. Douglas gives them something
Speaker 1: they don't otherwise have in speed. I as good as
Speaker 1: Kaishon Boody looks like potential wise, he doesn't give them
Speaker 1: anything they don't have between Juju and Bourn, and his
Speaker 1: game is still got to grow a little bit to
Speaker 1: catch those guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just.
Speaker 1: Don't see where he plays.
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be Juju and Bourn will be
Speaker 2: your clear cut one and two. Yeah, mainly because Parker's hurt.
Speaker 2: But I think when Parker gets back in there, it
Speaker 2: might be Juju Parker Born.
Speaker 1: So I will say this to the callers point with
Speaker 1: Kayshan Boody playing, if Parker does get hurt like he
Speaker 1: can't play, I do think those snaps go to Kaishaan
Speaker 1: Booty before to Mario Douglas. I think Tomrio Douglas's role
Speaker 1: is what it is. It's not gonna change. They're not
Speaker 1: gonna like it's all right, this is your package, this
Speaker 1: is your route tree, whereas Kaishan Bouti is the guy
Speaker 1: if you lose one of those top three. Now the
Speaker 1: callers said Kaishan Booty at the X, I actually think
Speaker 1: it's Kendrick Born at the X, Kaishan Booty at the Z.
Speaker 1: If DeVante Parker can't go, or maybe they mix and match, um,
Speaker 1: maybe they rotate it. But that's how I would do it.
Speaker 1: But that to me is how if Parker's injury is
Speaker 1: worse than we think, that's how Kaishan Budi gets on
Speaker 1: the field.
Speaker 2: I agree with you that I think Tomorrow Douglas they
Speaker 2: have a very specific role in mind for him. My
Speaker 2: guess is it's gonna be mostly third down and maybe
Speaker 2: some gadget style plays out of RPO.
Speaker 1: I'll say say, mostly third down. I love him as
Speaker 1: a drive starter, r pod drive star. Well, it can
Speaker 1: be RPOs.
Speaker 2: It can be because I'm running the show now, so oh.
Speaker 1: I RPOs some of that orbit motion stuff they did
Speaker 1: with market Shillings last year. I don't know. I like
Speaker 1: him as a drive call it a gut instinct. I
Speaker 1: don't really have a full take behind it, but I
Speaker 1: like him as a drive star to get the ball
Speaker 1: in his hands right away. And you know, eagles come out,
Speaker 1: they think they know what they're looking at, they get
Speaker 1: in their set and then all of a sudden, boom,
Speaker 1: here's this and then you have that in the back
Speaker 1: of your head.
Speaker 2: So last thing on the receivers, then I I want
Speaker 2: to talk about the CB matchups as well, and then
Speaker 2: we have one more call to get to here so
Speaker 2: we can do this.
Speaker 1: And then Brady, Oh yeah, I'm Brady.
Speaker 2: We can do it. We got fifteen minutes to full
Speaker 2: this out.
Speaker 1: Let's go.
Speaker 2: So first thing, last receiver take here, because I think
Speaker 2: we're in lockstep on the guys that are on the
Speaker 2: fifty three men roster. This also depends on how they
Speaker 2: feel about Matt Corral, But if Parker is limited or out.
Speaker 1: I think with a thyroc pits take no.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think there's a chance that Jalen Rager is
Speaker 2: elevated from the practice squad and plays.
Speaker 1: Hmm.
Speaker 2: I think there's a chance.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why, because he's got to play against
Speaker 1: his forward team. O Adam Schefter, I'm not Schefter was
Speaker 1: all hyped about that.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to revenge game.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: What I'm going with is based off of last year's film,
Speaker 2: and I know they have a new defensive coordinator and
Speaker 2: some new faces and YadA YadA YadA. Motion against the
Speaker 2: Eagles defense works. They have trouble with most.
Speaker 1: Which is weird because that's normally something that's tougher for
Speaker 1: man teams than zone teams.
Speaker 2: They have all sorts of kinds of problems with motion.
Speaker 2: And we know in the Super Bowl they'd scored wide
Speaker 2: open touchdowns and everybody went googo gaga over Andy Reid
Speaker 2: because he discovered return motion, which was Steve car Sarkesian's
Speaker 2: discovery at Alabama. But that's besides the.
Speaker 1: Point, Well, know that that ties in because that's Steve
Speaker 1: Sarkisian at Alabama with Mac Challenge. Yeah, if we're gonna
Speaker 1: see Alabama, Mac, you're gonna see some of that.
Speaker 2: So the one thing, well, other than like you know,
Speaker 2: clearing out coverage that Jalen Rager can just like run
Speaker 2: in a straight line really fast and clear out the coverage.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The one thing that I think that he can be
Speaker 2: effective at on an NFL field is motion, like whether
Speaker 2: it's jet motion you mentioned orbit which is like end
Speaker 2: around style motion, or throwing him screens or handing the
Speaker 2: ball off to him off of motion. He's effective at
Speaker 2: that and I think that they can get the Eagles
Speaker 2: on it. So I think that there's a world where
Speaker 2: that's Pop Douglas and they just give that opportunity to
Speaker 2: Pop Douglas. But in the preseason, Pop Douglas hurt himself
Speaker 2: on a screen, right, so.
Speaker 1: He wasn't on the injury report. I hope they don't
Speaker 1: bury Pop douglast for Jalen Rager for everything we went
Speaker 1: through this summer, that would be disappointed.
Speaker 2: I don't think they will, but I think that there's
Speaker 2: a chance that the Chiefs use Kadarius Tony and Sky Moore.
Speaker 2: I think that there's a chance that the Patriots might
Speaker 2: try to hit them with a ton of motion and
Speaker 2: have both Pop Douglas and Jalen Rager in their back
Speaker 2: pocket in case they need Reager to do it too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so I think it's possible that if Parker is
Speaker 2: elimited or out and they feel okay about Matt Corrall
Speaker 2: being the quarter backup quarterback, that Jalen Rager and Time Montgomery.
Speaker 1: Spin this another way. What if they feel they don't
Speaker 1: need Time Montgomery, then it could then that too. I
Speaker 1: almost feel like that's more realistic because he they used
Speaker 1: him as much as a receiver as it is a
Speaker 1: running back. And I wonder if they'd flip that and say,
Speaker 1: all right, this is going to be because he's not
Speaker 1: going to run out of the backfield Rager. But it's
Speaker 1: like the same sort of skill set a little bit. Yep,
Speaker 1: So I elevating Rager and Montgomery to me would be
Speaker 1: a little weird.
Speaker 2: Okay, So maybe it's Mong it's Rager and Zappy at
Speaker 2: that point, yeah, or somebody else your thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be your way to I just
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: Think they're going to test the Eagles with motion, and
Speaker 2: I think that that's like the one thing I saw
Speaker 2: Rayyer do at a decent level from last year. All
Speaker 2: let's take this call and then we'll wrap it all. Right,
Speaker 2: Mark is in Connecticut. What's up, Mark Evan? What's going on? Guys?
Speaker 1: Hey, hey, Mike Evans.
Speaker 5: What is your thoughts on bringing in Mike Evans?
Speaker 1: Because I think he's.
Speaker 4: Better than d Hop and he obviously wants out of Tampa.
Speaker 2: It's a fair question. And thanks for the call, Mark, Uh,
Speaker 2: I do it?
Speaker 1: I do it. I wouldn't give him an extension.
Speaker 2: Yeah, see that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I take him as a rental for the year and
Speaker 1: say what, we're going to throw you one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty passes and you're gonna get your value up and
Speaker 1: you'll go cash in free agency. I'd give up. I
Speaker 1: I'd give up a like Top one hundred picking up myke.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't give up a first So I give up
Speaker 1: a top one hundred picking up Mike Evans.
Speaker 2: Right now, Mike Evans I is no longer at the
Speaker 2: peak of his powers.
Speaker 1: No, but he's still really good.
Speaker 2: He's good. But my concern with him at this point.
Speaker 2: He's a far more durable DeVante Parker at this point
Speaker 2: to me, and that the durability is a factor. Like,
Speaker 2: don't get me. I'm not belittling or downplaying the fact
Speaker 2: that Mike Evans being able to be out there for
Speaker 2: seventeen games makes a big difference than Devonte Parker being
Speaker 2: in and out of the lineup. But from a skill
Speaker 2: set perspective, both of those guys don't separate a ton anymore.
Speaker 2: Both of those guys don't run by people a ton anymore.
Speaker 1: Mike Evans still pretty hard to tackle. It's more running
Speaker 1: through guys than running by guys.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about as a road runner, Like he's not.
Speaker 2: He's not a separator. He never really was, but now
Speaker 2: it's got as he's agent's obviously he can still play.
Speaker 1: He can still dictate card.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be contradictory because, like I said that,
Speaker 2: I wanted DeAndre Hopkins so badly, and it's it's they're
Speaker 2: both in similar spots in there.
Speaker 1: Ever, better Evans better than Hopkins at this point?
Speaker 2: I think Evans might. He's more durable, for sure.
Speaker 1: I think he's better. It goes back to your thing
Speaker 1: about the Tuesday morning meeting. Is Mike Evans the guy
Speaker 1: that's gonna draw. How would you give up?
Speaker 2: Because I think that it's going to take less than
Speaker 2: people think. If he does end up on the trade.
Speaker 1: Block we had, can I do it for a third
Speaker 1: round pick?
Speaker 2: I think you would win the bidding war for a
Speaker 2: third round pick. I think that's the highest was going
Speaker 2: to be. So he's a because if his years accrued
Speaker 2: in the league, the best compick they can get for
Speaker 2: him is a fifth That's just the way the formula one.
Speaker 2: So the best convict that they can get for him
Speaker 2: is a fifth round compick. So if he he's a
Speaker 2: free agent at the end of the year. So if
Speaker 2: he just leaves in free agency next year, the Bucks
Speaker 2: are only getting a fit. So a fourth might get
Speaker 2: it done. And I know that that sounds crazy because
Speaker 2: of his resume and his pedigree in the league, But
Speaker 2: look at the other trades for veteran receivers at that
Speaker 2: time in their careers. DeAndre Hopkins got nothing, Amari Cooper
Speaker 2: got what like a fifth I think it was.
Speaker 1: He went for a lot. He went for too much.
Speaker 2: Was that the thing with him to Cleveland?
Speaker 1: I thought they gave up like a second and a fifth.
Speaker 2: Oh did they really? I thought it was.
Speaker 1: But I'll part of it was the new contract. I
Speaker 1: would trade for Mike Evans under the understanding that he's
Speaker 1: not getting a new contract all right. Oh no, you're right.
Speaker 1: It was a fifth and a sixth swap. I don't
Speaker 1: know who I'm thinking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not much right now for the veteran receiver.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm overpaying with a third, I still do it.
Speaker 2: You need to beat a fifth, right, because they're gonna
Speaker 2: get a fifth just from letting him walk.
Speaker 1: You need to beat a fifth. So everybody's gonna offer
Speaker 1: a fourth. So you offer a third. Yeah, maybe, and
Speaker 1: you get like a sixth back or something and there
Speaker 1: you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's where I would do it.
Speaker 1: I would do it. I would absolutely do it. But
Speaker 1: I but I would not if he would he hold out,
Speaker 1: because I wouldn't do it. If he's expecting an extension, right,
Speaker 1: I'm not giving it, but for this year to maximize
Speaker 1: mac Jones, to take some of the attention away from
Speaker 1: these other wide receivers. Yes, but if if he's like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, if you're in a trade for me,
Speaker 1: I need an extension, or I'm not gonna suit up.
Speaker 1: All right, cool, hanging up the phone. I'm done.
Speaker 2: We're done here, Okay, cornerback matchups. Yes, I'm gonna say this,
Speaker 2: And I don't know how you feel about it. I
Speaker 2: haven't even talked to you about this.
Speaker 1: I have a weird take on this too, so this
Speaker 1: will be interesting.
Speaker 2: I'm throwing Christians.
Speaker 1: Oh, I have the exact opposite take.
Speaker 2: I'm throwing them to the wolves.
Speaker 1: I don't take is you?
Speaker 2: This bothers me and it goes back to the fangio
Speaker 2: thing and we don't have enough time for me to
Speaker 2: rant about this. But it goes back to the like
Speaker 2: you drafted the guy in the first round, you really
Speaker 2: really like the guy. He's shown all the the the
Speaker 2: checked all the boxes to this point in his rookie campaign,
Speaker 2: he's ready to go. What are you hiding him for?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: What are you protecting him from?
Speaker 1: So, I honestly, just aside from that, I don't think
Speaker 1: you need to. I don't think you need to throw
Speaker 1: him to the to the I almost said to the bills.
Speaker 1: They'll throw them to the bills. That's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: I think they need to. Why two reasons.
Speaker 1: You're you're talking about him on an island with AJ Brown,
Speaker 1: you're talking about him covering or him on an island,
Speaker 1: because I wouldn't meet him on an island.
Speaker 2: I would I would not say on an island. I
Speaker 2: think that that's putting a little bit too much of
Speaker 2: like it's oversimplified. But I here's why I don't think
Speaker 2: you can scheme around on this game plan, being like
Speaker 2: we need to protect Christian zone.
Speaker 1: Okay, No, and I don't think you need to do
Speaker 1: that either. But here's there's one very obvious matchup here
Speaker 1: when you're putting it together. Jonathan Jones on Davanta Smith. Ye,
Speaker 1: that to me is so the whole thing their philosophy
Speaker 1: we're gonna put Do you think they truly view gonzalz
Speaker 1: is like their number one corner? Do you think there's
Speaker 1: some flexibility in that at this point?
Speaker 2: I think that they view it as body type. The
Speaker 2: body type, Okay, so perfect. So Jonathan Jones on DeVante Smith.
Speaker 2: That's the guy you're leaving alone. That's the guy you're
Speaker 2: saying you take him out now. I'm going Christian goan
Speaker 2: Zalz on AJ Brown with help Marcus Jones in the
Speaker 2: slot because the Eagle slot receivers suck. Honestly, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be mostly Davante Smith, and we've already established as Jonathan Jones.
Speaker 2: If it's DeVante Smith in the slot, then it's Jack
Speaker 2: Jones on the other corner. If Davante Smith's on the boundary,
Speaker 2: then it's again Jonathan Jones on the slot. And you're
Speaker 2: you know, you're mixing Jack Jones in with Christian Zalz
Speaker 2: throw different looks and then Jalen Mills on Dallas god Okay,
Speaker 2: so I agree with Jamn Mills on Dallas Goddard. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think we're in similar places. I think the Eagles
Speaker 2: are gonna play a ton of twelve in this game,
Speaker 2: and I think that the Patriots should match it with
Speaker 2: three or four safeties on the field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then you don't. Then you take Marcus Jones out
Speaker 1: as the st Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna play big nickel and big dime
Speaker 2: and play two corners a lot of this game that
Speaker 2: I think that your corners are Christianzalez and Jonathan Jones,
Speaker 2: Jonathan Jones and DeVante Smith. I like that.
Speaker 1: And that's the island.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: He's not getting help.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but So here's the thing. You can't. You can't
Speaker 2: double bolls. I've heard this before, right, because they'll run
Speaker 2: the ball right down your throat and they'll run for
Speaker 2: two fifty for you that because you have you're gonna
Speaker 2: have two safeties deep and you're there's nothing gonna be
Speaker 2: in the middle of the field and they're gonna torch
Speaker 2: you like that. You have to get the extra hat
Speaker 2: in the box. You have to find a way to
Speaker 2: have seven guys in the box. You just do. So
Speaker 2: what you do, in my my mind is you put
Speaker 2: Christian Gonzales on AJ Brown and then you find a
Speaker 2: way to help him in the respect that you're gonna
Speaker 2: have a help defender take away something from AJ Brown.
Speaker 2: So what a lot of good teams do is they
Speaker 2: take away that first window throw. So they're gonna have
Speaker 2: the corner play off of AJ Brown, but they're not
Speaker 2: gonna give up the quick slant of the quick curl
Speaker 2: because they're gonna have a defender in that passing link.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: So now all Christian Gonzalez has to worry about his
Speaker 2: verticals and like skinny posts, right, like the deeper.
Speaker 1: Slants or our routes.
Speaker 2: Right, But all he's only worrying about things that are
Speaker 2: breaking out like eight yards, right, He's not worrying about
Speaker 2: all the quick stuff underneath because you have the defender there.
Speaker 2: So he's gonna be on AJ Brown over the top
Speaker 2: one on one, but he's gonna have a head start.
Speaker 1: So yeah. So and this is where the whole thing
Speaker 1: is interesting with Devin McCarty. In the past, it would
Speaker 1: be AJ Brown or Christian Zauce on AJ Brown with
Speaker 1: Devin McCarty as that over the top help safety. That
Speaker 1: guy's not there anymore. So instead now you're helping on
Speaker 1: the short stuff and you're having Gonzales takeaway with yeh.
Speaker 1: So once they get down the field, Gonzale AJ Brown,
Speaker 1: if he's not the best jump ball receiver in the league,
Speaker 1: he's up there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But Christian Zalz you drafted him to be competitive at
Speaker 1: the catch point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's there. Be body type. He's six foot one,
Speaker 2: six foot two. He runs like the wind. You can't
Speaker 2: hide him from AJ Brown in this game, right, he
Speaker 2: this is what he's here for.
Speaker 1: So the way, so the way you gave your initial
Speaker 1: take was like you're gonna have christians as on a
Speaker 1: J Brown on one side and then you're just that's
Speaker 1: gonna be it right for that matchup.
Speaker 2: That's what you had me. No, I mean, that's you
Speaker 2: wouldn't do that. I don't think any regard like even
Speaker 2: like even though people think about like ty Law, Derell
Speaker 2: Reeves Gilmore as being on islands, they were never truly.
Speaker 1: On island respect sometimes not sometimes they were, I think.
Speaker 2: Was they always had post safety help, Okay, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: they Devin mccordy, Yeah, yeah, at least so that that's
Speaker 2: that's That's the thing about Christian Zauces. I've seen a
Speaker 2: lot of he can't cover a J. Brown. He has
Speaker 2: to cover a J. Brown.
Speaker 1: That's that's the matchup. That's you drafted him to cover
Speaker 1: this guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if he if he has a bad game
Speaker 2: against a J. Brown, that's one of the best receivers
Speaker 2: in the league. You tip your cap, you'd say he's
Speaker 2: a rookie in his first start and he got torched
Speaker 2: by one of the top five receivers in the NFL.
Speaker 2: And it is what it is. But if you go
Speaker 2: into this game plan thinking that we have to double
Speaker 2: AJ Brown at all costs, you are going to give
Speaker 2: up so much everywhere else that you just can't do it,
Speaker 2: like they have too many things to cover, So that
Speaker 2: that's the CV matchups really quickly, your thoughts on Brady
Speaker 2: coming back? Like, what do you I think the best
Speaker 2: thing you know we can reminisce about Brady any day
Speaker 2: of the week. What are you most looking forward to
Speaker 2: about the Brady festivities?
Speaker 1: When the opening notes of public service announcement hit.
Speaker 2: I think that's happening. Yeah, I actually don't know, so okay,
Speaker 2: And I really don't know they have.
Speaker 1: To play it when he walks out. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's pre game, maybe it's halftime, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: know when they do that. It might be halftime and
Speaker 1: he's not gonna run down the sideline or anything. But like, no,
Speaker 1: those opening notes, when that hits, and just the energy
Speaker 1: in the building, that's going to be unbelievable. Here's my
Speaker 1: weird hot take on the Brady thing. Yeah, don't give
Speaker 1: him everything. Make sure there's reasons to have him coming.
Speaker 2: Back, don't. I wouldn't worry about that.
Speaker 1: Because like there's Jersey retirement, there's Pats Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: there's I know some people, I'm not gonna make you
Speaker 1: give anything away, but some people have talked about there
Speaker 1: maybe being like the Patriots arning some sort of ring
Speaker 1: of honor or something like with him, which would make sense.
Speaker 1: They're probably gonna name the statue or naming something after
Speaker 1: him my like tinfoil hot take conspiracy theory, the Tom
Speaker 1: Brady Lighthouse. It's I highly doubt that's gonna happen, but
Speaker 1: that would be cool. But space, space it out, don't
Speaker 1: do it all. We don't need it all at once.
Speaker 2: Keep them coming back, don't worry about that. Okay, cool, Okay,
Speaker 2: the second my Brady thing.
Speaker 1: I'm also the one other thing. Sorry, when these things happen,
Speaker 1: whether it's like after the super Bowl and they bring
Speaker 1: out the trophies or when different guys get in the
Speaker 1: pass hall, the other guys who come back, just seeing
Speaker 1: them back is cool too. And you know who's who's good.
Speaker 1: There's certain guys you just kind of figure are going
Speaker 1: to be here, but like who's good? Is Gronk gonna
Speaker 1: be here? That would be interesting. You know, guys like
Speaker 1: I'm sure Edelman will be here, I'm sure like James
Speaker 1: White will be here. How many guys from those earlier
Speaker 1: teams will be back? Or he's obviously going to be coaching,
Speaker 1: but like, will you see guys like I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of offensive guys. Kevin Falk will probably be here.
Speaker 1: I would think Ben Watson, Ben what I could see
Speaker 1: Ben Watson coming back? Dan Gram see that Dan Graham
Speaker 1: would be cool to see.
Speaker 2: Matt Light might be here.
Speaker 1: Now, Like could we get Antoine Smith back here? Would
Speaker 1: Corey Dillon come for that?
Speaker 2: Has Antoine Smith been back for anything?
Speaker 1: He was back? I think when they did the anniversary
Speaker 1: of the two thousand and one team, remember that they
Speaker 1: had like every there were only like four or five
Speaker 1: guys that were here for that, like they were obscured,
Speaker 1: like Matt Stevens was here. T Brusk I would assume
Speaker 1: Bruski and let I don't, well McGuinness, I don't know
Speaker 1: what his situation is, Bruskie. If he'll be in Connecticut
Speaker 1: right because they he does.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he does. If he's on the
Speaker 2: air on Sunday. I think Rodney is.
Speaker 1: Right, Rodney's on Sunday night. Yeah, Well, actually Rodney probably
Speaker 1: won't be here because it'll Sunday Night football.
Speaker 2: And I don't think Devon will be here because of
Speaker 2: that too.
Speaker 1: Well no, actually maybe for pregame, they take care copter,
Speaker 1: so they'll get it. That's Teddy Teddy. I think he
Speaker 1: could they get off the air at one in Bristol. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he could get here for halftime for a four o'clock game.
Speaker 2: Alex Is putting Teddy in the car with the police escort, Like,
Speaker 2: I think he could do it. All right, So I'm gonna.
Speaker 1: Oh, how about it. You think like Charlie Weis will
Speaker 1: be here.
Speaker 2: Maybe that would be serious XM like he does radio,
Speaker 2: so all.
Speaker 1: These guys have media stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, who's like the most obscure player that will be here?
Speaker 1: Give me a name.
Speaker 2: Matt Chatham.
Speaker 1: No, that doesn't he works, He's working the game. That
Speaker 1: doesn't count this message. I'm gonna Mike Cloud, Okay, that
Speaker 1: that is, I mean, standout Mike.
Speaker 2: There could be some random receivers that played with him
Speaker 2: that caught passes from him, you know, like a like
Speaker 2: a Mike right or like a Tim Right yeah, Tim right, yeah,
Speaker 2: Tim right, Big.
Speaker 1: Big Matt Mulligan, Matt Lanle, No, Matt Langle has Big
Speaker 1: Matt line.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna this might be like this is a little
Speaker 2: bit more of like your your station take. But I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give it. I'm gonna be playing body Language Doctor
Speaker 2: a little bit on Sunday with him and Bill No,
Speaker 2: just him in general. Is he doing this out of
Speaker 2: obligation or because he really wants to be.
Speaker 1: Well, that goes back to my point of like make
Speaker 1: sure there's reasons, because I is he just like all right,
Speaker 1: I'm coming back once, get it all out, Let's get
Speaker 1: it all out of the way, Let's do all of it.
Speaker 2: That's that's happening, especially because we've already said it's gonna
Speaker 2: be at halftime, so you have eight minutes at halftime,
Speaker 2: so you can't do all of that in eight minutes.
Speaker 2: My one little body Language Doctor thing is that I
Speaker 2: do really want to know is he into it? Like
Speaker 2: is he really really into it? Because to your point,
Speaker 2: like public service and like he should run onto the
Speaker 2: field like you know, like I'm like you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like that should be a pump the crowd up,
Speaker 2: the crowd up. Yeah, And like is he is he
Speaker 2: rooting for the Patriots? Is he into it? Is he?
Speaker 2: Like does he look like he wants? And I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna hold it against him if he doesn't, but I
Speaker 2: will admit as a as a Patriots fan, my fandom
Speaker 2: in me, it does still kind of hurt that the
Speaker 2: way it ended, right, And I'm not saying that it's
Speaker 2: all his fault, and I completely understand both sides of
Speaker 2: it and understand his side wholeheartedly. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: like I didn't become a Bucks fan, right, Like, we're
Speaker 2: still Patriots fans here and the Patriots are still the
Speaker 2: Patriots to us. And is he gonna recognize in his
Speaker 2: post playing career as a Patriot through and through? Or
Speaker 2: is this gonna be like Tom Brady and then it's
Speaker 2: gonna be Patriots, Bucks Brady TB twelve, like you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like and that that is interesting to me.
Speaker 2: It's not the most important thing. And I'm glad he's
Speaker 2: coming back, and it's nothing like that. I'm just wondering
Speaker 2: how much does he really want to be here. I
Speaker 2: know that he is really tight still and has a
Speaker 2: ton of respect for mister Kraft, as we all do.
Speaker 2: And I know that it's a possibility that he's coming
Speaker 2: back because mister Krav asked him to and he did
Speaker 2: it because of that. And if that's all it is,
Speaker 2: then that's gonna be attle disappointing. Yeah, it is, and
Speaker 2: I think for a lot of Patriots fans, myself included,
Speaker 2: to close the book on Brady and to like feel
Speaker 2: good about Brady again one hundred percent, we need to
Speaker 2: like stop acting like he ever played for the Bucks.
Speaker 2: So I remember, well, at the same time, they should
Speaker 2: call him a seven time super Bowl champion, don't you
Speaker 2: know take that away from him. I mean the respect
Speaker 2: goes both ways, right, Yeah, I don't think you completely
Speaker 2: ignore the butt, but you make it about the Patriots.
Speaker 2: But like, don't feel like he won six super Bowls
Speaker 2: to call him a seven times super Bowl champion, that's
Speaker 2: what he is. They're gonna say six with the.
Speaker 1: Patris They're gonna say that, but I'm saying, I don't.
Speaker 2: Its like inside information. I just feel like that.
Speaker 1: But also like, don't if they don't mention the seventh
Speaker 1: one at all, I think that would he could be
Speaker 1: rightly annoyed by that. I'll say this. There was a
Speaker 1: picture Mac Jones rookie year that was it is taken
Speaker 1: on the sideline before a game. It was probably the game.
Speaker 1: Whoever it was that got inducted that year got inducted
Speaker 1: in the Patriots Hall of Fame. Was that Seymour twenty
Speaker 1: one or was no? Seymour was last year?
Speaker 2: It might have been Seymour.
Speaker 1: I don't know whoever it was. Whoever it was, Drew
Speaker 1: Bludsoe was here, Vince, I think it was Vince. I
Speaker 1: think you're right, which makes it weirder Thandrew Bledsen is here.
Speaker 1: But the point being like there's a picture of Mac Jones,
Speaker 1: Drew Bledsoe and Robert Craft on the sideline before the game,
Speaker 1: and it was like, by the way, Drew Drew, I'm
Speaker 1: hoping we'll be here on Sunday. I think I think
Speaker 1: I need a picture of Mac Jones, Tom Brady, Drew
Speaker 1: Bledsoe and Robert Craft. Okay, I remember like seeing that
Speaker 1: picture and being like there's something missing here.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, you know, but don't leave Steve
Speaker 2: Grogan hanging like that. All right, let's no no, But it's.
Speaker 1: It's no, no, no, because the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Is the succession.
Speaker 1: Right as long as crafted Craft is on the team
Speaker 1: for so many years, and they've really only had three quarterbacks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if Grogey wants to be in the picture, can be
Speaker 1: in the picture. But ideas like Robert Kraft has owned
Speaker 1: this thing first.
Speaker 2: How could you do that to Steve Grogan?
Speaker 1: Robert Craft has owned this thing for so long and
Speaker 1: to have that little turnover quarterback, and obviously Brady's big
Speaker 1: part of it. I mean drew out like ninety six
Speaker 1: to one, like seven years, a long time in the RFL. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: So who's.
Speaker 2: The second best Patriot quarterback of all time?
Speaker 1: Now? What are you doing to Steve Growin? No, you're right,
Speaker 1: but no, it's it's true Brady bledsoe mac Craft. I
Speaker 1: need that picture, Okay, I need that because when they
Speaker 1: took it in twenty twenty one, and obviously Brady's still playing,
Speaker 1: was gonna be there, but it was like it was like,
Speaker 1: this is almost the perfect picture. Almost.
Speaker 2: I was gonna hang that up in his bed. I
Speaker 2: gotta go find that picture now over his bed. It's
Speaker 2: gonna be a shrine. All right, We gotta we gotta go.
Speaker 2: They've already opened locker rooms. So we're behind the eight
Speaker 2: ball here, but we'll be back next Thursday, same time,
Speaker 2: same place to break down this Eagles game preview the
Speaker 2: Miami Dolphins and a throwback week next week against the
Speaker 2: Miami Dolphins. So we have Brady and then we have
Speaker 2: throwback week back Back, kicking off the season with that.
Speaker 1: That's almost the end of URT because our first show
Speaker 1: here was a throwback. Oh that was like week five.
Speaker 2: But yeah, there you go, all right, So see you
Speaker 2: guys next week.
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