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Speaker 1: For more than forty years. There have been many misconceptions

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Speaker 1: about the murders and Easy Street. At the top of

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Speaker 1: this list was a widely held view that one of

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Speaker 1: the homicide squad's initial suspects was the killer, and journalists

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Speaker 1: in Melbourne talked openly about one of their colleagues being

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Speaker 1: the murderer. They were wrong. The introduction of DNA quickly

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Speaker 1: disproved this so called theory, but it also meant that

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Speaker 1: it took twenty years for the crime reporter's name to

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Speaker 1: be cleared what must have been an ordeal by any standard.

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Speaker 1: There was also another significant misunderstanding about this case seven

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Speaker 1: years ago when I started researching it for the book

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Speaker 1: Murder on Easy Street. The same year a million dollar

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Speaker 1: award was posted for information in the double homicide. It

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Speaker 1: was accepted as fact that no one had seen or

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Speaker 1: heard anything on the night that two women died, or

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Speaker 1: in the days and nights that followed before their bodies

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Speaker 1: were finally found by next door neighbor ALONEA Stevens. It

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Speaker 1: was always hard to believe. Surely someone had noticed something

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Speaker 1: that made them uneasy at the time. Then again, surely

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Speaker 1: detectives working the case in the decades that followed would

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Speaker 1: have found anyone who'd seen something, but the official narrative

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Speaker 1: remained the same. There were no witnesses, end of story.

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Speaker 1: Yet it wasn't. In fact, this is a story in

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Speaker 1: itself because no less than three people had something to

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Speaker 1: share with police, and two are still alive. Back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, twenty one year old Peter Sellers was

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Speaker 1: living in his family's home at one three nine Easy Street.

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Speaker 1: His father had been born in the house, so the

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Speaker 1: family were true Collingwood Stalwarts.

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Speaker 2: I knew the area really well. Yeah. We used to

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Speaker 2: walk the streets of the night and there was no

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Speaker 2: no hassles, no nothing. You just did what you had

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Speaker 2: to do. There was ay in Greece. Australians all up

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Speaker 2: and down the street, and we all grew up with

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Speaker 2: each other for ten years or so.

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Speaker 1: And you went to school there obviously primary in high school.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we went to Victoria Park Primary School and then

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Speaker 2: went to Vitual High School. Then pursued a job as

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Speaker 2: an apprentice jockey.

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Speaker 1: The night the two women were killed, his parents and

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Speaker 1: sister were away on holiday, so Peter and his mate Ray,

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Speaker 1: who has since passed away, were up late. They stayed

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Speaker 1: up till about two thirty that Tuesday morning, January eleventh,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, and that's when they heard three very

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Speaker 1: distinct loud noises.

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Speaker 2: And then we're watching movies, having to drink or so,

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Speaker 2: and it's about two thirty. Ray slept on the couch.

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Speaker 2: I went up to my bedroom was at the front

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Speaker 2: of the house and just hop into bed and there

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Speaker 2: was a bang, the front door closing, and two car

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Speaker 2: doors in rapid succession closing, and the car just sped

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Speaker 2: off up towards my street. Yeah, seek back, and at

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Speaker 2: the time he go, you know what was that? I

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Speaker 2: had to look out the window. Was it going outside

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Speaker 2: to find out? But yeah, I just took off. And

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Speaker 2: the next morning I got up and I said to Rage,

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Speaker 2: hear the noise? He said yeah, he said it was

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Speaker 2: that loud you could not hear it. So during that

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Speaker 2: day I never gave another thought.

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Speaker 1: Two more days and nights would pass before the girl's

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Speaker 1: bodies and young Gregory were found. But the next night, Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: January twelve, Peter Seller saw three people, two men and

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Speaker 1: a woman, standing out front of the two suits house

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Speaker 1: us more specifically, in front of the service lane that

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Speaker 1: ran alongside it.

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Speaker 2: On the Wednesday, Mom and dad and my sister and

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Speaker 2: husband Johome from Queensland. I was home waiting about eight

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Speaker 2: thirty at night and I heard a car door and

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Speaker 2: I thought it was them. Walked out the front and

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Speaker 2: the step at the front of the house is high

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Speaker 2: so you can see down the street, and there was

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Speaker 2: a dark haired guy standing that where the gutter and

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Speaker 2: the laneway met with the laneway between the two houses.

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Speaker 2: Fair haired guy standing at the entrance to the laneway,

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Speaker 2: and he was onto a dark haired girl. It was

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Speaker 2: a minute or so then they kissed each other on

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Speaker 2: the treek. She turned and walked towards Hoddle straight and

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Speaker 2: he turned and walked up the lane way and then

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Speaker 2: there the lame way backs onto my house. So I

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Speaker 2: walked out into the backyard and my dog, Sindy, she's

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Speaker 2: just running around wagon her tail, no care in the world.

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Speaker 2: So I thought that's fine, walked back out the front

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Speaker 2: and no one was there. They were all gone.

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Speaker 1: So when you say you saw one of the guys

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Speaker 1: walk up the lane rate not the other guy.

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Speaker 2: No, I didn't. As soon as the other guy turned

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Speaker 2: to walk up the lame way, I walked inside to

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Speaker 2: the backyard. So I don't know where the other guy

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Speaker 2: actually went up the lame way. I don't know, and.

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Speaker 1: You were just checking the security aspect of it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I didn't know where he was going. I didn't

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Speaker 2: know who he was, And because the lame way backed

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Speaker 2: onto the house, I just wasn't too sure.

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Speaker 1: His family got home in the early hours of the

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Speaker 1: next day, so he didn't get a chance to mention

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Speaker 1: anything to his parents until he got home from work

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Speaker 1: on that Thursday afternoon.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't know anything had happened until I finished work.

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Speaker 2: And back then the old milk bars had the signs

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Speaker 2: out the front with the headlines on it and murder,

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Speaker 2: and that's when I read all about it. But I

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Speaker 2: went got shires to be honest. So I seen these

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Speaker 2: two guys. I didn't know who they were. So I

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Speaker 2: walked home and as I got around the corner of

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Speaker 2: the people were so I walked on the other side

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Speaker 2: of the road and then into the house. Why to

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Speaker 2: get away. There was reporters and everybody there, and I

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Speaker 2: saw guys who I didn't know who they were, So

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Speaker 2: I my lot not happy. So I walked inside and

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Speaker 2: I said the mum and my dad. I think I

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Speaker 2: may have seen them.

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Speaker 1: The next day, while he was at work, Peter says,

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Speaker 1: two detectives came to his house looking for information that

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Speaker 1: Easy Street residents might be able to give them. Peter

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Speaker 1: says his mother, father, sister, and his brother in law

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Speaker 1: were virtually interrogated by the homicide team.

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Speaker 2: Why because when they come home, they actually drove into

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Speaker 2: the laneway and reversed out to park the car, and

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Speaker 2: they wanted to know what they saw. And of course

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Speaker 2: there were reports there was a light on in the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: My sister, who passed away two years ago, will state

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Speaker 2: until then that when they pulled into the lame way,

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Speaker 2: there's no light on in the kitchen at all. She's

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Speaker 2: quite adamant. And yet when the police turned up, there

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Speaker 2: was a light on the kitchen, So that's another mystery.

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Speaker 2: And then they said that mum was anybody else's home.

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Speaker 2: Mum said, my son was home, and they wrote my

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Speaker 2: name down, Big Astros, and they said we'll be back

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Speaker 2: tonight to interview him. Until this day, I haven't seen them.

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Speaker 1: And what does that make you think, Peter? I mean,

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Speaker 1: why wouldn't they come back and talk to you?

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Speaker 2: The main reason I got they were focused on one

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Speaker 2: person and one person only, the boyfriend from what I

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Speaker 2: can remember back and everybody else's the police had blinkers on,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, that's my thought of it, that they

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Speaker 2: were after one person and one person only.

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Speaker 1: For more than four decades, Peter Sellers waited for homicide

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Speaker 1: to contact him to learn what he heard and saw

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Speaker 1: in the street that week of the murders. He's not

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Speaker 1: embarrassed to say he was scared. He truly believed he'd

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Speaker 1: seen the killers. But in twenty seventeen, at the urging

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Speaker 1: of his late sister Robin, he finally reached out to

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Speaker 1: police and ran crime stoppers. With the cold case back

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Speaker 1: in the news again on its forty year anniversary and

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Speaker 1: Robin on his tail, he felt he had no choice.

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Speaker 2: So I rang him up and you put on hold,

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Speaker 2: and I'm waiting and waiting, and I started sweating, sweating,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, you know, I'm not the guilty one here.

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Speaker 2: But they come on. So I started explaining everything. They

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Speaker 2: were very quiet on the phone, last me if what

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Speaker 2: I saw what I heard. Then they waited for me.

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Speaker 2: I reckon to give him a name, and I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know who they were or that is there

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Speaker 2: anything else? And the version wasn't a lot, so I hung.

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Speaker 1: Up to this day, Peter Sellers believes more than one

156
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Speaker 1: person was involved in this case, and he can't forget

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Speaker 1: what he heard earlier that morning in Easy Street.

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Speaker 2: The front door slam and within seconds two car doors

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Speaker 2: bang bang, and then the car sped off. Whit's on

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Speaker 2: heading up towards Smith Street. And that will never leave me,

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Speaker 2: and till this day, until I die, I'm convinced there

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Speaker 2: were two killers, not one totally to me. No one

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Speaker 2: said they hurt anything, but I was four doors away

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Speaker 2: and that was as loud as anything. Now, other people

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Speaker 2: must have heard it.

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Speaker 1: Surely a lot of people listening to this are probably thinking, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you know, such a long time ago, it's nearly

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Speaker 1: five decades ago. Has it grown bigger in your mind?

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Speaker 1: Have I've you know, really exaggerated it?

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Speaker 2: No, not one bit. I can close my eyes and

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Speaker 2: hear exactly what happened, and the seconds between the door,

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Speaker 2: the two car doors and the car taking off. It

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Speaker 2: was me, mum, Never forget it.

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Speaker 1: A written statement sent to me by the Victoria Police

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Speaker 1: Media Office in the run up to this podcast said

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Speaker 1: investigators will talk to Peter Sellers in the future. The

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Speaker 1: good news is they have, and we'll get to that

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Speaker 1: in more detail later. Yet they ignored him for forty

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Speaker 1: five years. A man now sixty six, who not only

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Speaker 1: heard something unusual on the night of these murders, but

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Speaker 1: who saw three people outside the so called murder house

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Speaker 1: some thirteen hours before the women's bodies were found. Given that,

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Speaker 1: what do we make of another neighbor's claim, A woman

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Speaker 1: who lived across the road from the Sellers in Easy

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Speaker 1: Street and says she heard a man's voice later that

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Speaker 1: same night, saying the teachers had been killed. Christina for

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Speaker 1: Tourists came to Easy Street in nineteen seventy and has

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Speaker 1: lived there ever since. The knowledge in Arean loves the suburb,

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Speaker 1: but is still troubled by that strange snatch of conversation

190
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Speaker 1: she heard that night she was in bed with her

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Speaker 1: husband when a man walked past their house, apparently talking

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Speaker 1: to someone else.

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Speaker 3: I am not sure, drim or someone passed the middle

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Speaker 3: of the night and says, somebody kill the two teachers tonight.

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Speaker 3: I work up in the morning, I say to my husband,

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Speaker 3: to my kids, because I have boy a yell, something happened,

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Speaker 3: someone passed or dreamer.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: When I walk well outside, I.

200
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Speaker 5: Saw so many people down there, police people come, and

201
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Speaker 5: so what happened on there?

202
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Speaker 6: Give the two teachers what?

203
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Speaker 1: Yes, Detectives never knocked on Christina's door as they gathered

204
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Speaker 1: information after the murders or in the years since. To

205
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Speaker 1: be fair, she never expected them to, nor has the

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Speaker 1: retired machinists try to report what she heard, assuming that

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Speaker 1: have just dismissed her as quote, a crazy Greek woman unquote.

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Speaker 1: But the more she's thought about it over the decades,

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Speaker 1: the more she believes that what she heard wasn't a dream.

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Speaker 1: It was a man talking as he walked past her house.

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Speaker 2: Not dream.

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Speaker 3: Maybe somebody walk in the street and he had that.

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Speaker 2: If I did outside still it was dark. I can't nice.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I can't tell.

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Speaker 6: You one tall susan.

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Speaker 5: I think the other one kelly hair beautiful, not to

217
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Speaker 5: fix it, just border with kel hair and have big

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Speaker 5: dog like this one dog with long hair playing with

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Speaker 5: her Greg always outside.

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Speaker 3: But the dog I think very friendly and not why

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Speaker 3: or otherwise he tried to do something.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear anything on the night I died?

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Speaker 3: Which was a couple of only this one the night

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Speaker 3: this one.

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Speaker 4: Somebody say, kill the two teachers tonight.

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Speaker 1: While Christina for Tourist's officially undocumented claim is disconcerting and

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Speaker 1: Peter Seller's experienced troubling, what happened to the most important

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Speaker 1: witness in this case borders on implausible, indeed intolerable. Gladys

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Speaker 1: Coventry lived next door to the two suits with her

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Speaker 1: husband Clive, on the other side of the service lane

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Speaker 1: in one four five Easy Street, and on that awful

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Speaker 1: summer evening in nineteen seventy seven, she was sitting up

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Speaker 1: alone in her launde room and late that night she

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Speaker 1: saw a man in the house next door. I first

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Speaker 1: heard this incredible story when I spoke to the late

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Speaker 1: Brian Murphy, one of Australia's more colorful detectives, who died

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Speaker 1: just before this podcast was finished. The former Armed Robbery

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Speaker 1: Squad veteran mentioned it almost in passing when I rang

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Speaker 1: to ask what he knew about the murders. He'd never

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Speaker 1: worked in homicide, but I expected him to have a

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Speaker 1: unique perspective on the historic investigation. He did, but what

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Speaker 1: he told me was confounding.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I remember telling her that somebody had information that

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Speaker 4: this particular woman had looked across into the house where

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Speaker 4: the murders took place and she saw a person washing

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Speaker 4: bloodstained clothing out, and that the police heard about it

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Speaker 4: and they wanted to send a policeman in. But she

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Speaker 4: had a dislike to policeman, not a hatred, but a

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Speaker 4: dislike because she'd most probably gone through tough times as

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Speaker 4: a lot of people in those working classes areas did,

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Speaker 4: and had a certain opinion of the police, and she

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Speaker 4: didn't want to trust anybody.

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Speaker 1: I think she tried to tell them initially, didn't.

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Speaker 4: She apparently so, Yes. But the funny part about it

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Speaker 4: was they sent a doctor in. He was bigger than

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Speaker 4: the average wishman and had a most authoritative voice, and

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Speaker 4: he went in. She sh'd d're a copper, get out.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to talk to you, and I think

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Speaker 4: basically that's what I told you.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, it was pretty hard to process what

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Speaker 1: Brian the Skull Murphy told me during our first conversation

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Speaker 1: on the phone. Could police really have failed to take

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Speaker 1: such a potentially important witness seriously? Peterhiscock, one of the

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Speaker 1: first detectives on the scene, didn't work on the case

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Speaker 1: long enough to be able to shed light on this

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Speaker 1: apparent conundrum. But Murphy, who had two books written about

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Speaker 1: his controversial career, had little doubt about what happened. He

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Speaker 1: believed that when seventy two year old Gladys Coventry approached police,

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Speaker 1: they effectively dismissed her. Then, days later, realizing she was

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Speaker 1: probably their best lead in terms of trying to identify

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Speaker 1: the killer, they went back to her house and tried

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Speaker 1: to talk with her. But by that stage, it seems

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Speaker 1: missus Coventry had had enough.

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Speaker 4: Some police would have an opinion of themselves and they

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Speaker 4: knock to go and crawl to somebody asked them, please

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Speaker 4: tell me a million different ways of getting an information

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Speaker 4: out of people, and those skills are very few and

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Speaker 4: far between. As a policeman, I would have kissed her

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Speaker 4: feet if you told me something like that, it's just gold.

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Speaker 1: It was truly an astonishing revelation, but could it be verified?

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Speaker 1: With Victoria's homicide squad rebuffing all my written and verbal

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Speaker 1: requests for an interview about the case, retired Detective Murphy's

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Speaker 1: very specific cold case tale spurred me into doing my

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Speaker 1: own doorknock in Easy Street to see if there was

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Speaker 1: anyone who knew Gladys Coventry and perhaps had even heard her.

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Speaker 1: As it happened, there was. When I knocked on the

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Speaker 1: door of one three nine Easy Street, ironically Peter Seller's

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Speaker 1: family home for so long, I met retired history teacher

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Speaker 1: Hugh Parry Jones, and he quickly revealed that not only

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Speaker 1: had he known missus Coventry, he'd actually discussed the murders

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Speaker 1: with her. The two neighbors started chatting over her rickety

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Speaker 1: side fence as Hugh cleared out his new backyard, using

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Speaker 1: the lane to position his skip for the rubbish. What

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Speaker 1: she disclosed still perplexes him.

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Speaker 6: Well, she told me that she was sitting there at

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Speaker 6: the window because it was a hot night, and that's

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Speaker 6: how she kept cool in her house with the back

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Speaker 6: door open. And she said she saw a bloke leaving

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Speaker 6: out the back gate, where he turned sharply towards the street.

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Speaker 6: My thoughts are that as a possibility, he could have

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Speaker 6: seen her from the same position if her lights were on,

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Speaker 6: or the moon was shining in her window or whatever.

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Speaker 6: So she herself was possibly in some sort of danger,

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Speaker 6: but that was it. She saw him turn and leave

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Speaker 6: with a knife in his hand.

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Speaker 1: Yep, And when she told you, that, what was your

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Speaker 1: initial response?

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Speaker 5: Ah?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I was very shocked, because I'm sure I said

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Speaker 6: to her, well, I'm sure you told the police, and

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Speaker 6: she said that they weren't very interested in what she

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Speaker 6: had to say. I think she was very disappointed in

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Speaker 6: the reaction and behavior of the police, who didn't seem

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Speaker 6: to want to give her any credit.

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Speaker 1: Did you believe her?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely? I didn't see that she had any reason to

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Speaker 6: make it up. She seemed pretty genuine and solid in

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Speaker 6: her memories of the events and was only too happy

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Speaker 6: to tell me when I pressed her. I had no

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Speaker 6: idea that when I was talking to her, I was

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Speaker 6: finding out stuff that was not in the public domain.

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Speaker 6: I just assumed I'd missed that evidence because it seemed

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Speaker 6: such a bombshell.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it was a bombshell, and the second version

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Speaker 1: of what Gladys Coventry saw on the night Susan and

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Speaker 1: Suzanne were killed. Clearly, they were two very different accounts,

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Speaker 1: but they shared the most crucial point. She'd seen a

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Speaker 1: man in the house the night or early morning of

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Speaker 1: the double homicide. And now finally we've uncovered missus Coventry's

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Speaker 1: own explanation of what she saw in quite precise detail,

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Speaker 1: In other words, the actual buried lead of this story

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Speaker 1: within a story. But finding it wasn't easy. Just as

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Speaker 1: Hugh Parry Jones was astonished by what she told him,

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Speaker 1: her immediate family was stunned when what she'd witnessed came

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Speaker 1: to light in Murder on Easy Street, my book that

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Speaker 1: was published in twenty nineteen. Initially, her granddaughter tried politely

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Speaker 1: to convinced me that it just wasn't true that I

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Speaker 1: had been misled lied to. Yet after much discussion over

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Speaker 1: many months, she and her siblings came to accept that

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Speaker 1: it was correct and there was more to this family saga.

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Speaker 1: Since reading the book a couple of years ago, Gladys

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Speaker 1: Coventry's grandchildren have been searching for a newspaper report they

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Speaker 1: suddenly remembered seeing around the time of the killings. They

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Speaker 1: were adamant the paper ran a photo of their grandma

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Speaker 1: on the front page. They just couldn't find the copy

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Speaker 1: their late mother had kept tucked away for so long,

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Speaker 1: or remember which paper it was in. Was it the

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Speaker 1: Old Herald or Son the Age, or maybe a local

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Speaker 1: paper from where they lived in the country, or even

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Speaker 1: the bi weekly truth. It was baffling and kind of

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Speaker 1: drove them crazy. I couldn't find it either, and none

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Speaker 1: of the crime journals and former detectives I spoke to

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Speaker 1: who were steeped in this history recall ever having seen it.

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Speaker 1: But Gladys Coventry's granddaughter finally uncovered it, or at least

355
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Speaker 1: her husband did. This discovery followed the Victoria Police media

356
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Speaker 1: unit sending me an email unexpectedly really after so many years,

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Speaker 1: imploring them to discuss Gladys Coventry's role in this saga,

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Speaker 1: revealing the detectives had taken her statement on February eleventh,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight. Not only does this confirm that they

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Speaker 1: didn't talk to her formerly until a year after the

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Speaker 1: two women were murdered, it also came after a veteran

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Speaker 1: crime reporter interviewed her first. Because the newspaper story that

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Speaker 1: Missus Coventry's grandchildren remembered seeing was in truth. On January

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Speaker 1: twenty eighth, nineteen seventy eight, an old fashioned scoop by

365
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Speaker 1: Joerno Jack, ailing no doubt to coincide with the first

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Speaker 1: awful anniversary of the young women's deaths. I saw man

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Speaker 1: with girls, screamed the tabloid's misleading from page headline. Watch

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Speaker 1: them for fifteen minutes, and yes there was Gladys Coventry's

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Speaker 1: photo on two pages in the paper. Now, while she's

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Speaker 1: willing to discuss this unexpected chapter in her family history,

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Speaker 1: Missus Coventry's granddaughter doesn't want is to use her real name.

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Speaker 1: The killer, after all, is still free, so we'll call

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Speaker 1: her Melanie, and she believes her Nana's long lost interview

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Speaker 1: sheds new light on this cold case.

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Speaker 7: I think it's illuminating to the situation for both the

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Speaker 7: girls and my grandmother. On that night. We didn't have

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Speaker 7: the details of what Nana was doing and saying to

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Speaker 7: the police. But indeed, it feels as though, when you know,

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Speaker 7: I look at this article, that she may have tried

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Speaker 7: to speak to the police and wasn't respected. It is

381
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Speaker 7: hard to know, but maybe this article has eventuated because

382
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Speaker 7: it's around that, you know, one year anniversary, and someone

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Speaker 7: has thought to go and talk to my grandmother.

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Speaker 1: What does surprise her is that it was a reporter

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Speaker 1: from a newspaper, specifically truth.

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Speaker 7: I don't know how it eventuated that, you know, she

387
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Speaker 7: spoke to journalists from The Truth. I just feel that

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Speaker 7: she may not have been fully aware that she was

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Speaker 7: going to be on the front page of The Truth,

390
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Speaker 7: and it wasn't a popular paper in the household at

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Speaker 7: the time.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that's interesting is when you were growing

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Speaker 1: up as kids, you'd obviously seen her in the paper,

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Speaker 1: but did you know what it was about.

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Speaker 7: I personally think that we were very shielded. I think

396
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Speaker 7: when that article came out, and I know that my

397
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 7: siblings said that they actually found it. I saw it

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Speaker 7: in the newsagents and my mother told them to run

399
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Speaker 7: back and buy it. It was brought home and I

400
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Speaker 7: certainly saw the front page, but I think that paper

401
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 7: was actually sort of taken away and the details were

402
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Speaker 7: not revealed to us. I think also it reflects that

403
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Speaker 7: there was a worry. There was a worry for my grandmother,

404
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 7: There was a worry for us that you know, we

405
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Speaker 7: would feel stressed by the situation and be afraid, and

406
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Speaker 7: I think that we were being protected.

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Speaker 1: I asked though, because remember when you were you and

408
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Speaker 1: I met for the first time, was when the book

409
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Speaker 1: Murder an Easy Suit was launched, and you came and said,

410
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Speaker 1: where did you get that story about Missus Coventry because

411
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Speaker 1: it's not right. And I said, well, this is you

412
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Speaker 1: know where I got it from. You you said, will

413
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Speaker 1: know she's my grandmother, and that's not right. So in

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Speaker 1: a sense, even though you saw the story, because you

415
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Speaker 1: hadn't talked about it as a family, it was a

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Speaker 1: story kept secret within your family.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely. And you know, I even read this article, and

418
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Speaker 7: there's things in this article that you know, I was

419
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Speaker 7: not aware of. I think it actually had been deliberately

420
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Speaker 7: kept secret from us.

421
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Speaker 1: We'll never know how long reporter Jack Ailing spent with

422
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Speaker 1: Gladys Coventry. Yet, while the interview itself wasn't all that long,

423
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Speaker 1: the detail the older woman gave him about the man

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Speaker 1: she saw with Susan Bartlett was vital. He was tall,

425
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Speaker 1: had dark hair, and was wearing a short sleeved shirt,

426
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Speaker 1: not surprising really, given it was such a hot night,

427
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Speaker 1: and he seemed at ease in the house with Sue.

428
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Speaker 1: To some extent. The fact that Missus Coventry was willing

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Speaker 1: to finally put this on the record must have been

430
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Speaker 1: due to the journalists putting her it is too. This

431
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Speaker 1: doesn't surprise Elona Stevens, who lived on the other side

432
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Speaker 1: of the two suits house and found their bodies three

433
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Speaker 1: days after they were killed. Working a truth at the time,

434
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Speaker 1: Alona remembers Jack Ailing well.

435
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Speaker 8: Police rounds and crime with his section, and he'd have

436
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 8: been in his fifties, but typical old school journo.

437
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Speaker 1: And when missus Coventry saw him, I mean, would he

438
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: have just come to the door, knocked on the door

439
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: and asked her talk to her?

440
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 8: Well, that's really interesting. I imagine he would have. You know,

441
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 8: he would have had a presence about him, you know,

442
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 8: a professional style presence that would have probably she would

443
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 8: have reacted to like any other professional. He had a

444
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 8: terrific voice, actually he had one of those lower melodious voices.

445
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 8: And he would have come across as a very as

446
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 8: an educated, sensible, older person, someone she could trust.

447
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: Her granddaughter Melanie thinks or suspects that that maybe her

448
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: Nan thought she was talking to the police when Jack

449
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: Ailing arrived at the door, that maybe she thought he

450
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: was a detective finally coming back to talk to her,

451
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: because as we remember, she tried to tell them that

452
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: she'd seen this guy in the house, you know, the

453
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: day you found the bodies, but they dismissed her is

454
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: that possible. Could he have been mistaken for a detective look?

455
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 8: He could have physically, well, he'd have certainly been dressed

456
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 8: like one, because that was just the classic mode of

457
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 8: dress in those days, dark suit, white shirt and tie.

458
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 8: And as I said, he had that older man presence

459
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 8: that you know, a professional person would have, and so

460
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 8: it wouldn't be unusual for her to assume that given

461
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 8: the questions he was asking. But that's what it was.

462
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: You made an interesting observation, I mean, as an old journalist,

463
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: as a former journalist, when you looked at the way

464
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: Missus Coventry was photographed, what does that say to you?

465
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, it immediately says to me that she didn't really

466
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 8: know she was being photographed. She was busy talking, probably

467
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 8: to Jack, and the photographers just gone, yeah, this is

468
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 8: a good click, click, click, because not in those old days,

469
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 8: the cameras were different and he could stand away and

470
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 8: do that and she probably wouldn't have noticed. But both photos,

471
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 8: the front page photo and the page two photo both

472
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 8: looked to me as if she's focusing on something else,

473
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 8: not on having a photo taken.

474
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: Having said all that, to be fair, this interview actually

475
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: pushes or could have pushed the investigation forward, had they

476
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: spoken to her properly the year before. She describes the

477
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: man in some detail. He was tall, he had dark hair,

478
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: not black hair, but dark brown hair. He was there,

479
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: obviously for a while, and very relaxed. With Susan Bartlett.

480
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: This is not just a fleeting glimpse.

481
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 8: No, And the description is you'd have to say authentic

482
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 8: and authorized because she goes into such detail. This is

483
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 8: not Oh, I think I saw someone who may or

484
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 8: may not have. I was certain I saw it. This

485
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 8: is a year later, so I mean, I'm imagining had

486
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 8: a fair bit of information the day after, which the

487
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 8: police didn't bother to follow up.

488
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: And the other thing, of course, it's blindingly obvious, is

489
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: if they'd had this description a year earlier, or even

490
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: at this point in nineteen seventy eight, and released it

491
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: and also got her to sit down with a sketch

492
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: artist and draw on a composite, you know, a little

493
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: identicit sketch. I mean, how important would that have been,

494
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: do you think?

495
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 7: Oh?

496
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 8: I think incredibly important, because she would appear to be

497
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 8: the only eyewitness, and even if it's in the dark

498
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 8: from ten feet away, she's still an eyewitness. And would

499
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 8: still have remembered something, which is, as you know, Helen,

500
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 8: it's always sat with me that I should have remembered

501
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 8: something and I simply can't. But she was there and

502
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 8: she saw something, So you know, it amazes me that

503
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 8: the police didn't do anything about it.

504
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: As Elona Stevens describes him, the veteran crime journe, it

505
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: was quite a character, not unlike Melanie's grandmother by all accounts.

506
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 7: Physically, she was very short person. She lost her hair

507
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 7: early in life, so she wore a wig. So she

508
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 7: was fairly distinctive character. And I'm pretty sure that most

509
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 7: of the people in the street knew her. She tended

510
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 7: to wear the same sort of trench coat and trudge

511
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 7: along the street with a little trolley behind. And she,

512
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 7: as I said, she was deaf, or reasonably deaf if

513
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 7: she needed to be. She was very deaf. And she

514
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 7: would very classically ignore anybody she did not want to

515
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 7: communicate with, and she'd go out of a way to

516
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 7: communicate with people that she did want to chat with.

517
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 7: I know that she had friends across the road, Ruby

518
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 7: and Jim, and I don't know what happened to Ruby,

519
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 7: and but you know, there might have been people next

520
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 7: saw that she would never speak to because she chose

521
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 7: not to. She would be a classic character in a novel.

522
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: A little bit like Via she does.

523
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 7: Actually, she looked a bit like Vera too.

524
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: And like Vera Stanhope, the fictional British detective. She was

525
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: on the case very early that Tuesday morning, January eleventh,

526
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven. She told the reporter that she'd gone

527
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: to bed the night before at about ten, but awoke

528
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: at two am, probably because it was so hot. She

529
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: got up and walked towards the back of her house,

530
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: and that's when she saw Sue talking to a tall

531
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: man with dark hair. Melanie's happy to read her nana's words.

532
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 7: They were very nice girls, very quiet and kept themselves.

533
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 7: I went to bed on the in the front room

534
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 7: at about ten o'clock that night night. It was a

535
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 7: very warm evening. I don't know what happened, but I

536
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 7: woke up at about two o'clock. I got up and

537
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 7: went down the hallway in the darkness, on the way

538
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 7: to the kitchen to get a glass of water or something.

539
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 7: As I passed through my lunge room, I saw light

540
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 7: was on in the room. In the house opposite. The

541
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 7: blind was up about eighteen inches. I sat down in

542
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 7: the lounge chair in the darkness. It was cooler there.

543
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 7: I looked across and could see Miss Bartlett and a

544
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 7: man in the room. Miss Bartlett and a man were

545
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 7: sitting at each end of a small table near the window.

546
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 7: I could hear music playing. It was very loud. They

547
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 7: were talking and laughing and drinking out of little glasses.

548
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 7: They couldn't see me because I was in the dark.

549
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 7: Miss Bartlett was wearing a long colored kaftan dress. It

550
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 7: had white sleeves. She often wore these sorts of dresses,

551
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 7: and they used to see her in the street. The

552
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 7: man was very tall. He had dark hair, but not black,

553
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 7: it was sort of brown. She goes on to describe

554
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 7: what he was wearing. She says, I must have watched

555
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 7: them for fifteen minutes. They didn't get up to change

556
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 7: any of the music. I think it was coming from

557
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 7: one of those high fi things. I saw them both

558
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 7: stand up. They moved towards each other, and when they

559
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 7: were close, Miss Butler put her arms around the man's neck.

560
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 7: I thought they were going to kiss, but the man

561
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 7: didn't put his arms around her. She kept her arms

562
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 7: around him for a little while, and then they sat

563
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 7: down again. They didn't kiss. I then got up and

564
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 7: went to bed.

565
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: So it's quite a detailed recollection, isn't it. It certainly is

566
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: an eyewitness account.

567
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 7: Absolutely, and as I said, she could see well. There

568
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 7: was nothing wrong with her eyesight and there was nothing

569
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 7: wrong with her interpretation of situations. What does it mean?

570
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: The Lattice Coventry came to Australia when her family migrated

571
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: from England. She was eight or nine at the time.

572
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: She eventually married Melanie's grandfather and they had one child,

573
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: her mother, before he died. She remarried years later, and

574
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: that's when she moved to Easy Street with her new

575
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: husband and longtime Collingwood resident, Clive Coventry.

576
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 7: He had lived there, I think most of his life,

577
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 7: I think, except maybe born in Tasmania from memory, and

578
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 7: he lived there with his mum I think alone, but

579
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 7: I can't be sure of that. And his mother died

580
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 7: and then he married my grandmother and she moved in

581
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 7: and she would have been how old she would have been,

582
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 7: in the sixties, I guess when she moved in there.

583
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 7: I think they were quite happy living there doing you know,

584
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 7: the things that older old people in their sixties to. So, yeah,

585
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 7: just sort of watching the horse races and you know,

586
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 7: minding their own business around Collingwood, popping up to the

587
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 7: hotels on occasions, and she was very good cook, and yeah,

588
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 7: they were very comfortable.

589
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: With each other, I think, But by the mid seventies

590
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: things had changed dramatically. Missus Coventry continued to work as

591
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: a housekeeper and cue, but she was also caring for

592
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: her husband, who developed a severe form of dementia. His

593
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: condition was so serious that Melanie's father installed locks on

594
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: doors inside their cottage to keep both Clive and his

595
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: wife safe. There was one on the lounge room side

596
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: of the hallway, another on the outside of his bedroom.

597
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 7: That's correct. He was suffering from a dementia that on

598
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 7: occasions he had what I guess we would call hallucinations

599
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 7: or distortions of what was going on. And there were

600
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 7: incidents in and around that time that where he was

601
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 7: potentially violent and my grandmother may have felt unsafe. So

602
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 7: my father did put locks on the doors so that

603
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 7: she could remain safe within the house and he was

604
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 7: contained within the house.

605
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: It's important to note that eighty four year old Clive

606
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: Coventry was never considered a person of interest in the

607
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: Easy Street murders, despite his violent episodes. Illness was probably

608
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 1: another reason Gladys Coventry was sitting up by the window

609
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: early that morning. Now the truth story has been reclaimed

610
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: from the archives, so many aspects of her account of

611
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: what she saw next door seem significant. Certainly, from what

612
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: she recalled, there was nothing troubling about the demeanor of

613
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: either Sue or her male visitor, and there was no

614
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: sign of Suzanne Armstrong. Could she have been asleep in

615
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: the front of the house, was there another man with

616
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: her in her bedroom at the same time, or was

617
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: someone else lurking outside waiting for Sue's visitor to leave. Clearly,

618
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: missus Coventry's observations challenge our perceptions about what could have

619
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: happened that night. As we know, the long held version

620
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: of events, excepted for four decades, has the murderer coming

621
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: in the front door opened by Suzanne. Melanie has another

622
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: take on it too.

623
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 7: It makes me wonder what have we Has the investigation

624
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 7: focused on the wrong person? Has it really been about

625
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 7: Susan Bartlett rather than says Anne Armstrong? That's what I'm

626
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,959
Speaker 7: starting to wonder, you know, how many men were really there?

627
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 7: Who is this tall man?

628
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: And it also raises and brings into sharper focus what

629
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: Peter Sellers has always maintained. At about two point thirty

630
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: he heard a front door what he thought was a

631
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: front door slam, then two car door slam and a

632
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: car take off towards Smith Street.

633
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 7: Absolutely, the timeframes seem to fit in. You wonder where

634
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 7: we ever know?

635
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: And I'm also just remembering on one of the occasions

636
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: we've spoken before about this, that you just wishing you

637
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: could go back and see her again, go back in time,

638
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: and asked that question, why didn't you tell me? You know,

639
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 1: when I was grown up? Why didn't you say anything?

640
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that often. Why didn't I ask?

641
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 4: You know?

642
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 7: That's probably too busy at living life, I guess. And

643
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 7: you know, I do wonder how much mum Mum discussed

644
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 7: it with An and maybe it was very very conscious

645
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 7: decision on both their behalfs to you know, just keep

646
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 7: it quiet because we don't see anybody hurt.

647
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: Now. Police will only confirm that they spoke to her

648
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: grandmother in February nineteen seventy eight, a year after the murders,

649
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: and of course that raises another vexed question. If it

650
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: was the first time they took her statement, did truth

651
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: Scoop actually force their hand to finally interview her. For

652
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: Melanie and her family, it certainly confirms their grandmother could

653
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: have played a significant role in trying to solve the case,

654
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: had she been taken seriously by investing Gators from the start.

655
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 7: You know, we understand that memory can be distorted, but

656
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 7: maybe Nana did no more than she led on and

657
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 7: I think she just she was protecting everybody.

658
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: As well as Gladys Coventry's interview and accompanying photographs, The

659
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: Truth also published a photo of the service lane that

660
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: separated the two houses, with a black arrow added to

661
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: indicate the window from where she'd seen the man with

662
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: sup And whenever Hugh Perry Jones is in that old lane,

663
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: it's never far from his mind. So when you talk

664
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: to missus Coventry, you were out here, your skip was here, ye,

665
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: And what do you remember?

666
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 6: Okay, Now that I look at the architecture, I believe

667
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 6: her kitchen lean too started here and it was low

668
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 6: on that wall. And that's why that window was the

669
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 6: window that when she comes from the kitchen carrying her

670
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 6: food or whatever. She can sit there at the little

671
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 6: table in front of that window, which is as we

672
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 6: see straight across for this window, which is not their kitchen,

673
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 6: because the kitchen's back here, so that would have been

674
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 6: a lounge and there it is, So.

675
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: She would have been sitting there, and as she says

676
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: in the Story and Truth.

677
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 6: In the wee hours two am or whatever on a

678
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 6: hot night, her back door would have only been six

679
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 6: feet from the table, and she'd be getting the breeze

680
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 6: in from the south yep.

681
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: And because she's in the dark and they've got the

682
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: lights on, she.

683
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 6: Can see that, that's right, And otherwise the laneway is

684
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 6: completely dark.

685
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: And looking at this lane now, I mean in those

686
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: days we're talking nearly fifty years ago, those gates weren't there.

687
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: She was still at risk giving that interview that for truth,

688
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: because as you look at this lane way, how easy

689
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,439
Speaker 1: it would have been for that guy to come back

690
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: get over her little rickety fence.

691
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 6: They're so close that, of course you know, the windows

692
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 6: probably open too. She's probably because she's getting a breeze

693
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 6: through and he could reach through and grab her before

694
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 6: she could move doesn't bear thinking.

695
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: About next time on the Easy Street murders.

696
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 4: Those first initial thirty six forty eight hours are so important,

697
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 4: but you've got to put yourself back in the time

698
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 4: where it was. The tools that you had were a

699
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 4: good old fashioned shoe leather, knock on doors, ask questions,

700
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 4: assume nothing, believe no one, and check check checked,