1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: Gold is hitting new highs as global tensions and trade 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: wars show no signs of abating. 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 3: What a momentum trade for the yellow metal. 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 2: Gold has now risen over twenty percent since the douviest 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 2: shift from the FED back in Jackson Hole back in August, 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: crossing four thousand for the first time ever, and as 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: the price booms, African nations are doing their best to 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: cash in. 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 4: Relatively from January, experts from the small scale sector reach 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 4: fifty one point five pomps, which is valued at approximately 12 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 4: five billion US dollars. 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 2: On today's Next Africa Podcast, we'll look at how gold 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 2: rich countries can capitalize on the price rises and how 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: big the windfall could really be. I'm Jennifer's Abisaja and 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 2: each week from the continent driving the future of global 18 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Bloomberg's Africa 19 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: Mining and Metals correspondent William Klouds and our Precious Metals 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: reporter Jack Ryan are both with me this week. 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 3: Thank you both so much for joining us. 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 2: Jack. 23 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 3: Let's just start with you. 24 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: Last time we were talking about gold on this podcast. 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: The price was creeping up to three thousand. Many people 26 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: have their predictions for the end of twenty twenty five, 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: but now we're seeing the metal around four thousand. What's 28 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: some of the factors behind the rising price. 29 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: Recently? There's been kind of like this long laundry list 30 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: of things that have been driving gold higher. So we 31 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: had obviously the resumption of ray cuts, and that's good 32 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: for gold because gold obviously doesn't pay interest, so when 33 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: interest rates become lower than it becomes more healing relative 34 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: to cash. So that's something that the market is priced in. 35 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: It's priced in further rate cuts. And then beyond that, 36 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: we've had things like the attacks or the perceived attacks 37 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: on the independence of the Federal Reserve, and that I 38 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: think is something that really got the attention of people 39 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: who are invested in gold, because then you get the 40 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: potential for a kind of goldilock situation where you have 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: low rates, if you have a kind of plying fed 42 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: and potentially hotter inflation. Goal also is seen as a 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: bit of an inflation hedge, so kind of a heads 44 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: out in tails you lose scenario for gold swirling. Beyond that, 45 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: I think probably most people would agree, more geopolitical tension 46 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: in the world than there has been maybe five ten 47 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: years ago, and all of that stands to benefit gold. 48 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: Goldilocks, no pun intended exactly, William jump in here. When 49 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: we take a look at some of the big gold 50 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: producers on the continent, have we seen them all benefit 51 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: from this current wave of enthusiasm. 52 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 5: So when we talk about African countries which do produce 53 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 5: significant volumes of gold, we're talking about quite a few 54 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 5: of them, the likes of Ghana, Mali, South Africa, Bikina, Fasso, Sudan, Guineas, 55 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 5: Zimbabwe and the DRC. And that's not all of them. 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 5: And between those countries you've got a sort of differing 57 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 5: mix of types of gold production. So on the one hand, 58 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 5: you've got the sort of big industrial, commercial formal operations 59 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 5: owned by well known multinational miners like Barrick or Anglo 60 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 5: Gold or gold Fields, and on the other hand you've 61 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 5: got this production which is done by hands and rudimentary tools. 62 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 5: And one of the big problems for African governments, not 63 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 5: just now but for a long time, has been this 64 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 5: second kind of gold mining, which is often unauthorized and illegal, 65 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 5: which results in most of the gold being smuggled out 66 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 5: of the countries and therefore doesn't benefit their treasuries at all. 67 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 5: So the easiest, the most obvious way in which African 68 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 5: countries are benefiting right now is the countries that have 69 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 5: more of these big industrial operations, places like Ghana, Tanzaniamali, 70 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 5: and you know, they're making loads of money, loads more 71 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 5: money than before, just because the royalties they're receiving, in 72 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 5: other words, a percentage of every ounce of gold produced 73 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 5: and exported have shot up so much, even if overall 74 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 5: output hasn't changed a great deal. And it isn't surprising, 75 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 5: I guess, or it would be surprising if it wasn't 76 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 5: like this that some countries I can think of Ghana 77 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 5: and Ivory Coast to name just two, have been trying 78 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 5: to capitalize even more on the gold price by changing 79 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 5: the rates so that the state receives a bigger chunk 80 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 5: of the multinational company's turnover from their countries. 81 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 3: Have they been successful in doing that. 82 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 5: Well, It's always a bit of a fight because if 83 00:04:54,600 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 5: you introduce new laws, it's quite hard to to implement 84 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 5: changes to the rates companies pay overnight, because often companies 85 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 5: will argue that they have clauses that mean they're exempt 86 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 5: from new legislation for a period of time, maybe five years, 87 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 5: maybe ten years. So it's really really difficult to do quickly. 88 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 5: And the sort of most obvious example of this has 89 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 5: been in Mali, where the military government there has got 90 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 5: into the most almighty fights with its biggest investor. 91 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and those contracts date back years decades, William, you've 92 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: spent quite a lot of time in the DRC. Let's 93 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 2: dig into what we're seeing from the country in particular 94 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: and their plans to increase extraction. 95 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 3: Why does that stand out to you? 96 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 5: Well, Congo's it's a bit odd in that there's tons 97 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 5: and tons of gold there, but it's only got a 98 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 5: single industrial mind. It's called Gibali and it's co owned 99 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 5: by Barrick and Anglo Gold. It's absolutely massive, very impressive, 100 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 5: but there's only one in a country that should probably 101 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 5: have quite a few more geologically speaking. And what's more, 102 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 5: the government thinks or says it thinks that it loses 103 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 5: out on about sixty tons of gold smuggled out of 104 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 5: the country every year. Now that's worth more than seven 105 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 5: billion dollars at the moment. It's a poor country and 106 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 5: the government would very dearly love to take its slice 107 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 5: of royalties and taxes from those volumes. So in short, 108 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 5: they haven't really been able to do a great deal 109 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 5: to increase legal formal production because mines take a long 110 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 5: time to build. But there's a new minds minister in 111 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 5: town and what he's trying to do, and what he 112 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 5: said he's doing, is that he's really focusing on deals 113 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 5: with gold miners, both major multinational players and smaller exploration 114 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 5: firms in an effort to develop more operations like Kabali 115 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 5: where it's easier to capture the value from that kind 116 00:06:58,880 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 5: of production. 117 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: And William, what about in Ghana? What are you watching for? 118 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: What are some of the projects there? 119 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 5: So Ghana's doing something interesting. It's got plenty of these 120 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 5: big industrial operations run by international mining firms, but it's 121 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 5: also got loads of this small scale activity which is 122 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 5: known as artisanal mining. And there's a new government in 123 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 5: Ghana which has been all over that and trying to 124 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 5: organize it better and close the leaks and benefit more 125 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 5: from that industry than before. And basically they've got this 126 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 5: state owned body called the Ghana Gold Board that's been 127 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 5: set up to purchase and sell this kind of production, 128 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 5: and it's in an effort to curb smuggling and boost 129 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 5: the local currency. Nigeria has tried to do something similar 130 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 5: for years, to let the central bag buy all the 131 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 5: gold and boost its reserves like that, but I don't 132 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 5: think that's been as effective as in Ghana. I don't 133 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 5: think Ghana's released the latest data for the third quarter yet, 134 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 5: but there gold Board bought I think it was five 135 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 5: billion dollars worth of gold in the first six months, 136 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 5: and it says it wants to buy more at least 137 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 5: three tons a week in the future, and is aiming 138 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 5: for sales revenue up around sort of twelve billion dollars 139 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 5: a year. 140 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break, William and Jack, and when 141 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: we come back, we'll unpack more about this boom and 142 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: potentially how long it will last and whether or not 143 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: some countries are actually taking a bit of a risk 144 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: betting on the long term high of the precious metal. 145 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: We'll be right back, Welcome back. 146 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: Today. 147 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: We're talking about gold's continued boom and the countries across 148 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 2: the continent looking to cash in. William Klous and Jack 149 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: Ryan are still with me. 150 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: Jack. 151 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: Before the break, we talked about. 152 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 2: Some of the people on the countries looking to cash 153 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 2: in on this price increase. How sustainable is the price 154 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: of gold right now, though there's a number of analysts 155 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: that have their own projections for. 156 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: The end of twenty twenty five. 157 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: But could people start investing in more extraction only to 158 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 2: see the price start to falling up. That's a difficult 159 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 2: question to put to you. 160 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: I think anytime someone looks at the price chart and 161 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: they see a straight line going up for two years, 162 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: they probably make should make them nervous, and maybe gold 163 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: is less appealing investment now than it was two years ago, 164 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: given it's more than twice the price. I think in 165 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: terms of the miners, probably many of them will be 166 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: hesitant to you know, ramp up their cappex invest rather 167 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 1: than returning cash to shareholders, because I think the philosophy 168 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: now that a lot of the kind of investors share 169 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: is that that's really what miners should be focused on, 170 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: disciplined about spending and handling cash. Over. Most of the 171 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: gold miners now are making or nearly all of them, 172 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: are making bonanza levels of profit, you know, maybe cost 173 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: them twelve hundred to sixteen hundred dollars to digging out 174 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: the gold out of the ground, and now they're going 175 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: to get four thousand dollars for it, So they're really 176 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: making an incredible amount of money, and there's an incredible 177 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: margin there where gold could follow by one thousand dollars 178 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: and they'd still be making lots of money. The unusual 179 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: thing about gold is that the pind demand dynamics are 180 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: not really so relevant when you're trying to analyze where 181 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: the price will go, which is unlike I think pretty 182 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: much every other commodity that I can think of, and 183 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: that I think makes it harder to analyze because really 184 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: it's a medal where the price is all about sentiment. 185 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: I think it will be stronger supported if we don't 186 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: see an end to some of the trends that we've 187 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: seen over the last few years in terms of maybe 188 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: the multilateral system and trading relationships and just positive relationships 189 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,719 Speaker 1: the nation states. Generally, if they don't continue to deteriorate 190 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: or if they begin to recover, then gold might suffer 191 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: from that. But other than that, most of the tailwinds 192 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: are still blowing and it's at its back. 193 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 3: William. Let's just talk about some of the other risks. 194 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: For some of these gold producers. 195 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: Many of the countries with the gold reserves are relatively unstable, 196 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 2: as we were mentioning controlled by military junta is dealing 197 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: with illegal miners. Do you think that affects the appetite 198 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 2: for investors in some of the projects across the continent. 199 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 5: I'd say so yeah, But it's I mean, it's hard 200 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 5: to calculate how many more mines there would be in 201 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 5: places like Mali, or how much more investment if the 202 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 5: government was different or the security situation was better. But 203 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 5: what I would say is that there are still a 204 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 5: few companies which want to build gold mines in Mali 205 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 5: and are raising money to do it, even after Barrick 206 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 5: Mining got deep into its problems and ended up losing 207 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 5: its mind at least on a temporary basis, and executives 208 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 5: at another company were detained and effectively held hostage while 209 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 5: Marley negotiated with that company. You know, perhaps this company 210 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 5: I'm thinking of, it's called Tobani Resources, is very very 211 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 5: very brave, or maybe Barrett just played its hand very poorly. 212 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 5: But you know, there is still interest. But if you 213 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 5: look at the geology and gold deposits and some of 214 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 5: these riskier countries. There should be more industrial minds there 215 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 5: and there would be more appetite at this time in 216 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 5: this market if say northeastern Congo and Sudan were safer, 217 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 5: or Bikina Fasso had a different government. 218 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: If we do see the price continued to rise, does 219 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: that affect what you are paying attention to with some 220 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: of these projects or will they continue to invest and 221 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 2: push forward as you were just mentioning, regardless of the 222 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: price wings No. 223 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 5: I don't think they'll push forward regardless because there are 224 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 5: other places you can do this. So I think, you know, 225 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 5: there's always going to be a bit of Congo risk 226 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 5: associated with building a new industrial gold mines in Congo. 227 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 5: It's it's you know, you see this with other commodities 228 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 5: when prices a sky high too. Whether these reputations for 229 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 5: being a risky jurisdictions. 230 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 3: Are deserved or not. 231 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 5: And a lot of these African governments would say they're 232 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 5: unfairly treated in a way they're seen by Western investors. 233 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 5: In particular, it definitely does act as a drag on 234 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 5: investment that probably would go in if the consideration was 235 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 5: based exclusively on geology and deposits. 236 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 2: William Klous and Jack Ryan Thank you both so much 237 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: for joining us this week and for your reporting. You 238 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 2: can of course read all the latest reporting on gold 239 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: across Bloomberg platforms now. Here's some of the other stories 240 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 2: from the region we've been following this week. Nigeria is 241 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 2: planning to raise as much as two point three billion 242 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 2: dollars in a eurobond sale in the fourth quarter, potentially 243 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 2: joining other African issuers taking advantage of. 244 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 3: Lower borrowing costs. 245 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: And Egypt is asking its liquefied natural gas suppliers to 246 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: delay shipments scheduled for the rest of the year on 247 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: weaker than expected demand. And you can read more of 248 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: these stories across Bloomberg platforms now including the next African Newsletter. 249 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 3: We'll put a link to that in the show notes. 250 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 2: This program was produced by Adrian Bradley and tiua Adebayo. 251 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 2: Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you 252 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: usually get your podcasts, But for now, I'm Jennifer Zabasanja. 253 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 3: Thanks as always for listening.