1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Captain Ron. 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: to Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 11 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact, 12 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 3: we explore theatest news in upology, discuss some of the 13 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 3: classic cases, and bring you the latest information from the 14 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 3: newest cases as we talk with the top experts. Welcome 15 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 3: to Beyond Contact, don Captain Ron, and today we're speaking 16 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 3: with doctor Simeon Hein. Doctor Hein is a sociologist, author, 17 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 3: and researcher, best known for his work exploring the intersection 18 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 3: of frontier science, consciousness studies, and anomalist phenomenon including UFOs. 19 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 3: Since the mid nineteen nineties, doctor Hein has taught and 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 3: practiced remote viewing as well. His books examined topics such 21 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 3: as crop circles, bigfoot UFOs, and the possibility of unseen 22 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 3: energetic dimensions of reality. Doctor Hein promotes open minded scientific 23 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: inquiry into unexplained events and the hidden capacities of human perception. 24 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 3: Which is all right up our ally, Hello there, sir, 25 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for taking the time with us today. 26 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, Ron, thanks for having me here today. 27 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 5: So you know, I know you've looked at the UFO phenomenon, 28 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 5: as well as other phenomena on at different disciplines from 29 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 5: many different angles. I'd like to start off today with 30 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 5: your idea that there's this inverted reality. You seem to 31 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 5: be in the camp that consciousness is primary and matter 32 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 5: emerges from it. I think this idea goes back thousands 33 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 5: of years, but I always think of Max Plank's quote 34 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 5: from thirty one when he said, I regard consciousness as fundamental. 35 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 5: I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get 36 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 5: behind consciousness. 37 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 4: Is that where you sit? 38 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 6: I think, generally speaking in that direction, I don't know 39 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 6: exactly what consciousness is. You know, objectively, since you and 40 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 6: I are in the test tube here, but I would 41 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 6: go in that direction only. I'm only saying that Ron 42 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 6: because remote viewers know from all the research that we're 43 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 6: not as conscious as we think we are. When you 44 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 6: do RV, it's coming from some place that you really 45 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 6: are not conscious of. That's why you have these protocol 46 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 6: to let the information through without your conscious mind monking 47 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 6: it up. So when I get this to ask this 48 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 6: question about consciousness, I always have to think of Ingo Swan, 49 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 6: the book that he mentioned to us, The User Illusion 50 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 6: by tor Nora Tranders, a book I came across during 51 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 6: my dissertation, my PhD dissertation, showing that so much of 52 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 6: what goes on in our awareness is actually unconscious. It's happening, 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 6: but you're not consciously aware of it. So the consciousness 54 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 6: question is just slightly more complex than I think most 55 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 6: people realize. However, having said that, I like the way 56 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 6: you described my platform as inverted reality. I think that's 57 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 6: the only conclusion you could come to by looking at 58 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 6: all the types of encounters people have with all the 59 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 6: types of phenomena that they're out there, the types of creatures, 60 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 6: the types of life forms. If you look at the 61 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 6: science behind it ron. It really seems like another reality, 62 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 6: not even necessarily a parallel reality, though those I'm sure 63 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 6: those exist. It's another reality enveloped within our physical material 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 6: reality that pops through once in a while, and when 65 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 6: the doorway seems to open, it seems like a lot 66 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 6: more comes through than just a UFO encounter. I mean, 67 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,119 Speaker 6: there's just more coming through there. And this goes back 68 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 6: decades and decades of research showing that people that have 69 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 6: contact with this phenomena, all of it, they're experiencing similar 70 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 6: types of things and conditions and symptoms, which suggests, based 71 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 6: on what we can see, that there's another other reality 72 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 6: next to us, in the same space we're in that 73 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 6: we're normally we're not conscious of, we're not aware. 74 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 5: With regards to UFOs and these alien experiences people have, 75 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 5: do you believe that they're perhaps manifestations, you know, emerging 76 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 5: from a consciousness based reality system and not necessarily real 77 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 5: physical craft transferring, you know, coming across the universe. 78 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 4: Well, that's that's a that's a good question. 79 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 6: It seems that matter as we're used to it, physical matter, 80 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 6: has other states available to us to itself and the 81 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 6: way we experience it in a way that makes it 82 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 6: more like an energy form and a type of intelligence 83 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 6: without the usual solidity which we ascribe to UFOs and RON. 84 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 6: I think this is what people get hung up on 85 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 6: with UFOs now called UAP. There is a form that 86 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 6: they take which seems to be purely energetic, and this 87 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 6: is why people sometimes see these craft turn into orbs 88 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 6: or they see them e merge out of orbs. There 89 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 6: seems to be an alternate energetic state for these types 90 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 6: of technologies and life forms that seems to transform itself 91 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 6: into a plasma like state, and in that plasma like state, 92 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 6: they seem to have an intelligence. I'm just talking about 93 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 6: people's experience with orbs, Balls of Light, Skinwalker Ranch, all 94 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 6: these portal areas. Even going back to Kenneth Arnold, I 95 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 6: was really surprised reading James Lukatski's new book. 96 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 4: You know, the former head of os APP. He wrote 97 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 4: this trilogy of books. 98 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 6: I think the first and second one are with George 99 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 6: knappan Calm Keller, and right at the beginning of book 100 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 6: number two, I mean, I would encourage people to read 101 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 6: these books because he said this is all he's allowed 102 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 6: to say based on the NBA's side. It's all in 103 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 6: the books. He said, he can't even tell any more 104 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 6: to Congress. He talks about Kenneth Arnold experiencing orbs and 105 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 6: discarnate voices, shadow people, And so did anyone ever tell 106 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 6: us that about the Kenneth. 107 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 5: I never knew that I was fast. 108 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 6: From seven, that he experienced that strangeness which we've all 109 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 6: been fascinated with. But we haven't talked about a lot 110 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 6: because it's always been seen as well, that's not nuts 111 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 6: and Bolt's UFOs. So what's that. We're not going to 112 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 6: put that in our move On report. I'm a member 113 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 6: of move On, so I'm not putting it down. But 114 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 6: you see, we had these preconceptions that these were physical 115 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 6: craft along the lines of your question, right, But there's 116 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 6: another component of it which is really strange. But so 117 00:07:54,040 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 6: many people experience it, who experience UFOs or bigfoot or 118 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 6: cryptids or even a misty forms of light that their 119 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 6: cargoes through on the highway. You've heard of these encounters 120 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 6: and they get these types of effects. So we have 121 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 6: to ask ourselves, are we dealing with something that's more 122 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 6: than material? I mean, going to the heart of your question, 123 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 6: and I think that the empirical evidence going all the 124 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 6: way back to Kenneth Arnold and probably before show us. 125 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,679 Speaker 6: That shows us that there's something more going on here, 126 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 6: which is why Lukatski has said in his interviews recently, 127 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 6: a UFO siding is more than a UFO siding. 128 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 5: What empirical observations most strongly suggest to you that is 129 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 5: consciousness being primary rather than emergent. 130 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 6: Well, again, I'm not sure if it literally proves that 131 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 6: consciousness is the primary component here, but what it suggests 132 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 6: is that life as we know it can travel along 133 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 6: an alternate channel which doesn't have the same physical parameters 134 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 6: like we're used to, and it creates phenomena where things 135 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 6: pass through walls, where it creates these sort of time 136 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 6: loops and time slips. I don't think all of these 137 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 6: missing time experiences ron are necessarily these entities abducting people, 138 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 6: taking them into their craft, doing experiments, and then letting 139 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 6: them go again. I mean, that could be happening, but 140 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 6: that experience is far too common with people that encounter 141 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 6: paranormal phenomena for it to be purely some sort of 142 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 6: medical know intergalactic medical research program or whatever you want 143 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 6: to call it. 144 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 5: Do you think two things could be true that that's 145 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 5: actually physically happening, and other people are just. 146 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: Okay, No, I think that is happening too. 147 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 5: When you take a break here, Doc, when we come back, 148 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 5: we're going to ask Tommy about some of the support 149 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 5: for the fundamental consciousness position as well. How many of 150 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 5: these UFO and alien experiences tend to experience much more 151 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 5: activity either before or after their direct encounters. You're listening 152 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 5: to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 153 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 5: AM Paranormal podcast network. We're back on Beyond Contact. We're 154 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 5: speaking with doctor simeon Hin. You know, you were talking 155 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 5: about these similar adjacent experiences that people tend to have 156 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 5: around paranormal experiences, like you mentioned Kenneth Arnold, and then 157 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 5: there's things. 158 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 4: Like fog or cold or the world. 159 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 5: Goes silent, which is often reported. These phenomenon that people report. 160 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 5: I wonder do you think that these are aspects of 161 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 5: what actually happens or do you think perhaps that's how 162 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 5: people are remembering it and experiencing it when they see 163 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 5: a paradigm shifting thing like witnessing something paranormal. Isn't it 164 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 5: just like how our brains would handle something in a 165 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 5: in like a crisis situation, like say a car accident. 166 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 5: When people have a car accident, it's the same thing. 167 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 5: I didn't hear any noise. Everything was in super slow mo. 168 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 5: Could it be just our brains doing that somehow? 169 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 6: No, that's actually a good point, Ron, I think it's 170 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 6: a bit of both. There is no doubt that people 171 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 6: who are in stressful situations, we know this from studies 172 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 6: of people who've been in combat situations, people who've been 173 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 6: in violent situations, is that the brain has certain defense mechanisms, 174 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 6: which really survival skills that allow you really focus in 175 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 6: on what matters right at that instant, so you live, 176 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 6: to take another breath, And it does change the perception 177 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 6: of time. And I have encountered enough of that talking 178 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 6: to bigfoot witnesses, where their memories of the event could 179 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 6: vary right from the person who was right next to them, 180 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 6: including the description of the appearance of the creature and 181 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 6: a lot of details because they go and they enter 182 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 6: this stressful mode where they're not sure what's happening. The 183 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 6: creatures can be potentially violent, or that's their perception of it. Certainly, 184 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 6: the sounds are really loud from the scream howls like 185 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 6: you know. They say it's like a Tyrannosaurus Rex mixed 186 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 6: with Godzilla, and your body has a reaction to it. 187 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 6: Not to mention the sonic abilities of these creatures to 188 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,599 Speaker 6: direct sound at you and so for there's something we 189 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 6: can talk about at another time. But the physiological physics 190 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 6: side of this run is something that was addressed by 191 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 6: Asapp and you can read about it when Lakatski's talking 192 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 6: in these books we just mentioned, there is something that 193 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 6: he calls the Oz effect, and. 194 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 4: That seems to be and that's a kind of a slowing. 195 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 6: Down of time. The whole area goes silent and so forth. 196 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 6: But doing research into this subject matter, you can read 197 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 6: people experiencing that so called Oz effect around ball lightning, 198 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 6: even when they didn't feel there was any emergency or 199 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 6: crisis at hand. People report even on beaches that they 200 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 6: couldn't hear the waves, and that suggests to me that 201 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 6: what people are experiencing around UFOs, and this happens around 202 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 6: Bigfoot by the way too, and other cryptids, is some 203 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 6: direct physical effect on the structure of space time. Because 204 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 6: of the way that these life forms and technologies can 205 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:03,359 Speaker 6: affect the physical parameters that determine how electromagnetic signals propagate 206 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 6: in space. So, without being too complicated about it, this 207 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 6: is what how put Off, you know, one of the 208 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 6: original bounders of the Remote Viewing Program at SRI and 209 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 6: also a consultant to the federal government on UFOs and 210 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 6: the ASSP program. According to what he's told us in 211 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 6: his lectures and so forth, is that this is what's 212 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 6: called space time metric engineering, is where these technologies and 213 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 6: possibly these creatures are deliberately affecting what we call permittivity, 214 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 6: which is the ability of a material to hold an 215 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 6: electrical charge. 216 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 4: Permittivity can vary. 217 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 6: Physicists normally set it at one for empty space, but 218 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 6: objects have different levels of permittivity, and these technologies, specifically 219 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 6: in u UFOs and in the Hall structure, are quantum technologies. 220 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 6: According to how put Off and people I've talked to 221 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 6: who've examined these materials, that they're actually literally making the 222 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 6: permittivity of the surrounding space change in a way that 223 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 6: allows them to have propulsion and acceleration. So they're changing 224 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 6: the structure of space time in a precise, deliberate way 225 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 6: with these wave guides, these metamterials. So If that's true, 226 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 6: to answer your question, Ron, then what would be happening 227 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 6: is we have both. We have people having a physiological 228 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 6: shock effect of being like a PTSD stress type reaction, 229 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 6: but we also have technologies around us that are changing 230 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 6: the permittivity and the permeability the magnetic constant of space time, 231 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 6: and that would cause the speed of light to change, 232 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 6: since that's what determines the propagation of electromagnetic weights are 233 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 6: reability and permitivity. It's a simple equation with a square 234 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 6: root sign over it in Yeah, it's not that complicated. 235 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 6: But what the point here is that what we consider 236 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 6: to be constant in our reality every day you and 237 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 6: I wake up, those can vary around these technologies and 238 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 6: these life forms. This has even been found around cold 239 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 6: fusion low energy nuclear reaction Lenner technologies in the lab. 240 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 6: Where are the physicists working on these The engineers say 241 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 6: that the permitivity starts to fluctuate and it creates blurriness. 242 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 6: It literally creates a blurriness in the field of view 243 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 6: because the speed of light's now oscillating. And how many 244 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,119 Speaker 6: times run have we heard? Why are the UFO photos 245 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 6: to blurry? Why does big foot always look blurry, not 246 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 6: even with the camera pictures. I'm talking people with their 247 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 6: eyes saying it looked wispy and misty and undefinable. What 248 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 6: does that tell you that they're altering the structure of 249 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 6: space time. Now, I know that's a big leap, but 250 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 6: we need some big leaps here, because the witnesses are 251 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 6: telling telling us they're seeing some awfully strange things. 252 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 4: And to me, it fits with what. 253 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 6: How and Russian scientists have told us about variable permittivity. Lakatski, 254 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 6: You know, we have this scientific research into this these 255 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 6: subjects from our own Department of Defense through US APP 256 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 6: which we're told has continued right now in a program 257 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 6: called ConA Blue It apparently, Cornelakatski, it's still going on. 258 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 6: They've done a lot of research into the science of this, 259 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 6: and they're telling us a tiny little bit in Lakatski's 260 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 6: book howp put offs presentations to us. I would say 261 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 6: that's probably accurate. We're dealing with variable primitivity permeability, and 262 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 6: that makes things just feel strange. 263 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 4: So that would be what I think is going on. 264 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: Now. 265 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 6: I could be wrong, maybe there's something else, but that's 266 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 6: my best understanding of it. So when you have those 267 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 6: things going on run, things are going to look blue, 268 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 6: Things are going to shift color spectrum, The sound frequencies 269 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 6: are going to shift into other registers, so things that 270 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 6: are higher are going to go lower. And there's even 271 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 6: electromagnetic effects doing some research just in the past few 272 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 6: weeks which is called acoustic induction inversion, where where sound 273 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 6: waves actually get sucked out of the system from the 274 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 6: way the energy propagates. It pulls out energy from the 275 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 6: environment which would damp in sound. 276 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 5: Does all this make their time go off too, because 277 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 5: they seem to have time in there? 278 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 6: You go, It makes the time feel different because we 279 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 6: feel this, you know, the flow of time through movement 280 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 6: and through change. And if that is going to alter 281 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 6: in some way, your sense of time would change, the 282 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 6: structure of space time would change. I mean this goes 283 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 6: through Einstein's special theory of relativity. So these these subjects 284 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 6: are connected through these different principles that we understand through 285 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 6: electromagnetism and quantum mechanics. And I think when you look 286 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 6: at it and then somebody I'll be talking about, you know, 287 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 6: my presentation at contact coming up in a couple months. Great, 288 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 6: there aren't some basics in physics. For these principles, we 289 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 6: don't just have to call it woo woo. I mean, 290 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 6: you could call it that, but that's what people you know, 291 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 6: that's what people accuse. Michael Faraday and James Clerk Maxwell 292 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 6: have also been airy fairy. Literally it's a quote airy 293 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 6: fairy metaphysics. It's always been leveled at any new it happens. 294 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 5: That way until time goes on. Then that's the standard. 295 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 5: It's amazing all these guys were criticized for. 296 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 4: A hundred years and that it's obvious we knew it all. 297 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 4: Whull lot. 298 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 6: I think that's what we're talking about here, and I'm 299 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 6: not trying to explain all this away. 300 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 4: I'm just saying some of these experiences. 301 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 6: That people have around these phenomenas seem consistent with those ideas. 302 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 5: Fair enough. When we come back, we're going to ask 303 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 5: Simeon about these encounters people have and if he would 304 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 5: call these beings ultra terrestrials, could that be the answer. 305 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 5: You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast 306 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 5: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on 307 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 5: Beyond Contact speaking with doctor Simeon hin Hey, Doc, how 308 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 5: would you describe this reality? Number one? Is it a 309 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 5: reality onto its own or is it just the way 310 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 5: we perceived things in our natural world? Like, could it 311 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 5: just be this unseen world is in fact part of 312 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 5: our world, but we're not able to always perceive it. 313 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 5: I'm thinking in terms of things like infrared spectrum that 314 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 5: we couldn't see for all of humanity, and then we 315 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 5: developed the technology and now suddenly we can see into 316 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 5: the infrared spectrum. Is it possible that there's this other 317 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 5: realm within our real world that we're just not able 318 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 5: to perceive yet because we don't have that technology. 319 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's a good analogy to look at 320 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 6: it in terms of the frequencies that we're capable of perceiving, 321 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 6: and the technology we have can extend our perception into 322 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 6: other bandwidths that we're not used to perceiving. It's like 323 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 6: that book by Edwin Abbott Flatland that he wrote in 324 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 6: eighteen seventy two. There was a movie based on this too. Yeah, 325 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 6: So the idea behind that was that the we're living 326 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 6: in a certain restricted number of dimensions at least how 327 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 6: our perception works, but there could be other life around 328 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 6: that works at a higher dimensional level. When they intersect 329 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 6: with our reality, it could look like they just show 330 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 6: up out of nowhere, as happens in the Flatland story 331 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 6: accord to the main character, and the main character sees 332 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 6: a sphere show up one day on the tabletop. These 333 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 6: flat Land characters live in a flat world and three 334 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 6: dimensional objects exist and occasionally show up. And what they 335 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,719 Speaker 6: find towards the end of the story is that the 336 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 6: government of flat Land knew and this is from eighteen 337 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 6: seventy to is the longest incredible Yeah, they knew about 338 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 6: these spheres and sphere Land, but they didn't want to 339 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 6: tell the Flatlanders for fear of social revolution. Edwin Abbott 340 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 6: was ahead of his time because that seems exactly what 341 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,959 Speaker 6: has happened. Sure, And I would say it's more than 342 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 6: an analogy or a metaphor. I think that's literally what's 343 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 6: going on and what really reinforces it ron is our 344 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 6: social consensus reality which is so strong. It's this sense 345 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 6: of tribal belonging, this to our particular society wherever you 346 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 6: live in the world, and it affects our perception and 347 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 6: what we're willing to talk about. That's where sociology comes into. 348 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 6: This is We literally don't talk about things that people 349 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 6: experience because of fear of stigma, ostracism, ridicule, the gigall factor. 350 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's insane, but that's true. Do you think 351 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 5: that that's probably how it is, that there's this unseen 352 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 5: world either within ours or adjacent to ours, and the 353 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 5: paranormal or anomaloss occurrences are when someone gets a glimpse 354 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 5: into that other world. Or do you think it might 355 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 5: be a much larger system and in fact be part 356 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 5: of this massive multiverse or different dimensions that people talk about. 357 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 5: These are very easy direct questions with clear, definitive answers. 358 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 5: By the way, do you think it could be the other, 359 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 5: that it's multi versus in many dimensions. 360 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 4: Or I think it's both the Oh yeah. 361 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 6: The researcher microelectronic cold fusion researcher Kenneth our Shoulders, who 362 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 6: worked at SRI for a while and was a partner 363 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 6: to how put Off in some projects, said in his writings, 364 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 6: and he discovered charge clusters what we call exotic vacuum objects, 365 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 6: micro ball lightning, if you will, micro sized ball lightning 366 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 6: that can move around in circuits, that can move around 367 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 6: your home. Shoulder said something very much along the line 368 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 6: of what the words you just used, is that these objects, 369 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 6: because we just introduced the idea of primitivity a few 370 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 6: minutes ago, because their permittivity is lower than ordinary objects 371 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 6: you and I are used to, they work at a 372 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 6: much more more rapid rate. And he said that they're 373 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 6: sliding and gliding around in our reality, but they're decoupled 374 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 6: from our physical reality. But they're in the same space 375 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,239 Speaker 6: we're in, but they operate at an electronic speed. And 376 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 6: he even suggested that they're life forms that operate at 377 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 6: this electronic speed in the space you're in right now. 378 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 6: You really won't know you're around them until you see 379 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 6: your electronics going on the fritz. 380 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 5: And that's often reported as. 381 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:34,239 Speaker 6: Well, things shorting out, batteries dying for Ken's shoulders, and 382 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 6: he was one of many researchers in this tradition. He 383 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 6: showed us that there's another type of electronic activity going 384 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 6: on around us with alternate oscillating permittivity, which he said, 385 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 6: and this is his words, Ron, he said, black organizations 386 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 6: with ghostly properties right in the space we're in. And 387 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 6: it's not talking about parallel realities. He's talking about this 388 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 6: real reality where it starts shifting from changing the basics, 389 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 6: physics constants, the permeability, permittivity. Things are moving in a 390 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 6: different faster way. They have a huge energy density, but 391 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,239 Speaker 6: they're in the space we're in. And this seems to 392 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 6: me what people are encountering around UFOs and these other 393 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 6: types of life forms. I mean, it was Stan Gordon, 394 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 6: the researcher from Pennsylvania, his book Silent Invasion nineteen seventy three. 395 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 6: He made this connection of Bigfoot to UFOs that a 396 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,239 Speaker 6: lot of UFO researchers didn't want to see, which is 397 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 6: where you get reports of UFO sightings. You get spooky 398 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 6: wooki things showing up the same time, which goes against 399 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 6: the idea that these are just metalships with these little 400 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 6: guys that got in from another planet and kind of 401 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 6: took off and. 402 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 4: Came over here like lost in space. 403 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 6: What Stan Gordon showed us is, you know, he wasn't 404 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 6: even looking for it on his hotline, which he's been 405 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 6: running since nineteen fifty nine. But you get these cryptids, 406 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 6: Bigfoot and other creatures that we don't have names were 407 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 6: showing up at the same time. These strange shadow type people, 408 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 6: strange voices, weird box like structures, which Trey Hudson has 409 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 6: talked about in his research in the meadows another kind 410 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 6: of hot spot, you know in the southeast a lot. 411 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 6: Katie Page from Colorado saw those strange boxes on the 412 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 6: Elbert County and they saw him at Skinwalker too. So 413 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 6: you get kind of a range of phenomena which suggests 414 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 6: that what Ken Shoulders is talking about it another organization. 415 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 6: We're not talking about separate things. We're talking about entire organizations, 416 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 6: black organizations that are in our midst that only come 417 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 6: through once in a while, and it seems in some 418 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 6: geographic areas they come through a lot more and scare 419 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 6: people away. People sell their homesteads and stuff and get 420 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 6: out of the Marley Woods in Missouri. 421 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 4: Right Ted Phillips, All. 422 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 6: That is true that within our reality there is another type. 423 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 6: I'm just not giving it a value kind of to 424 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 6: I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying it's dark. 425 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 6: It's a dark reality. Ken Shoulders even suggested this could 426 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 6: be what dark matter is, which led me to the 427 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 6: idea of sort of dark matter life forms dark matter technologies, 428 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 6: since most of the universe is made of dark matter, 429 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 6: but there also do seem to be parallel realities, and 430 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 6: that's something I've looked at extensively. Just kind of going 431 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 6: back to your teaser question at the last segment, why 432 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 6: do people before their UFO encounters, why do they have 433 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 6: things start showing up before the UFO siding and then afterwards. 434 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 6: It suggests a type of reality that's next to us, 435 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 6: that maybe a little bleed through is coming into our 436 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 6: reality from that other versions. 437 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 5: We're picking up side, you know, we're picking up on 438 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 5: it us, like when you can tell there's somebody behind. 439 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 440 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, we have these senses and people like who've been 441 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 6: involved with remote viewing like I have, you know, you're 442 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 6: familiar with these types of experiences that remote viewers have. 443 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 6: But it's you know, as Ingo Swan used to say, 444 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 6: this is based on our natural senses, not the five 445 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 6: ordinary senses. Ingo thought we had like twenty senses, but 446 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 6: we simply in the West think they're only five. But 447 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 6: there are many more than that. Lynn Buchanan, one of 448 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 6: the people in the DA program and who still you know, 449 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 6: a teacher in r V, yeah, called it this the 450 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 6: you know, the sixth, the seventh sense, and Hugh Ever 451 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 6: at the third imagined this sort of many world's idea, 452 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 6: and there are permutations of that, but that there's bleed through. 453 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 6: So I mean, I don't want to make it too complex, 454 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 6: but it could be both that within our reality there's 455 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 6: a dark matter version of it, anti matter type of reality. 456 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 6: I mean, Paul Durak, you know, controversially investigated even in 457 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 6: the nineteen twenties and it turned out to be right. 458 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 6: There were other alternate antimatter particles within our reality. It's 459 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 6: not a parallel reality, right, it's here, but you normally 460 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 6: don't see it. But then on top of that, I 461 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 6: have no doubt that there are parallel realities. And it 462 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 6: complicates it for us researchers. What are we dealing with it? 463 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,719 Speaker 6: But that's what people experience sometimes, are things just seemingly 464 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 6: coming out of nowhere. And just I had this conversation 465 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 6: with Jacques valet Ones at one of the IRVA conferences 466 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 6: and he said, what they're not telling you to these 467 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 6: UFO researchers, for the most part, is that people are 468 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 6: having a paranormal experiences before their contact. So what does 469 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 6: that tell us. I'm not sure exactly what it tells. 470 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 4: Us, but it's. 471 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 6: Consistent with the idea of parallel realities and bleeds and 472 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 6: all that. 473 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 5: When we come back, we're going to ask sim It 474 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 5: about fractals and if he thinks that could point toward 475 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 5: us living in a simulation. You're listening to Beyond Contact 476 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 5: on the iHeartRadio and cost Am Paranormal podcast network. We 477 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 5: are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with doctor simeon 478 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 5: him doct This idea behind fractals is saying that the 479 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 5: universe may be built from repeating informational templates, which to 480 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 5: me points like it might fit right in with the 481 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 5: simulation theory, which physicist Tom Campbell describes as a self contained, 482 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 5: evolving digital information system governed by rule sets. 483 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 4: Is that how you see it? Would you subscribe to 484 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 4: this theory? 485 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 6: Well, yeah, the idea that fractals are the basis of 486 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 6: our reality, I definitely subscribe to that idea. I'm not 487 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 6: sure if it's literally just a digital simulation, and if 488 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 6: it is, it's coming from you and me. I mean, 489 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 6: we're the ones creating this digital simulation. 490 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 5: Back to consciousness again. 491 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, if it is a simulation, I'm not 492 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 6: in the conspiracy camp thinking it's someone else like you're 493 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 6: We're in someone else's video game. 494 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 4: I'm not going that way. 495 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 6: You're in your own because we know your brain is 496 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 6: assembling all these frequencies into objects and perceptions and so forth. 497 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 6: That's all happening in your brain. It's a good replica 498 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 6: of what's going on out there. Otherwise you'd be bumping 499 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 6: into things all the time. But that doesn't mean that 500 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 6: what you're perceiving is exactly what it actually is. It's 501 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 6: how you're perceiving it, and that's being generated every nanosecond 502 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 6: by you know, the trillions of neurons in your brain. 503 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 4: There's no doubt about that. 504 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 6: But the fractal idea is really critical here because I 505 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 6: think we've grown up with a lot of misinformation, especially 506 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 6: in Western society. We've imagined that the universe is based 507 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 6: on these straight lines with Euclidean shapes, you know, squares 508 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 6: and circles, even orbits are elliptical, they're rarely just perfect circles. 509 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 6: We have this perfect geometry in our mind that we 510 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 6: got from the Greeks, but it doesn't turn out that 511 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 6: way when you look at reality. It's all fractal. Going 512 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 6: outward as far as I can see through mountain ranges 513 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 6: and the way clouds are shaped, and the shapes of 514 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 6: rivers with tributaries, and down to the microscale with our 515 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 6: bronchial structure, cardiovascular system, everything is these branching structures and 516 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 6: where people don't know fractals are these branching structures like trees. 517 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 6: That's the way nature really designs things. And we're the 518 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 6: ones that have imposed this linear idea, insisting that it 519 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 6: should be turned into like an even metric that we 520 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 6: can measure. We like this idea, especially the Romans exactly right. 521 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 6: It's very easy to understand going back to the Roman 522 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,479 Speaker 6: times two thousand years ago. They love putting straight roads 523 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 6: cross these but that's not how nature really works. And 524 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 6: when you get down to the more micro level, even electromagnetism, 525 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 6: there's a fractal version of it which from all of 526 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 6: our research seems to be responsible for ball lightning. Fractal 527 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 6: rings on rings of electromagnetism can create a kind of 528 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 6: stored condensed magnetism which produces orbs and ball lightning and 529 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 6: micro ball lightning. And this comes out of Department of 530 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 6: Energy Research, David Freiberger and others. So there is a 531 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 6: fractal description of the energetic phenomena that happen at the 532 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 6: smallest scale and all the way out to the biggest scale. 533 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 6: It's fractal, So we're really surrounded by fractals. But our minds, 534 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 6: as you said, Ron, our minds like easy lines and 535 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 6: Euclidean shapes, and this is what we teach our ki 536 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 6: and we insist on the universe working this way. 537 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 4: But it doesn't really work that way. 538 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 6: And that's why even in things like cell phones, it's 539 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 6: a fractal based antenna. It's got these structures and small 540 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 6: so you can pick up different bandwidths. It's used in 541 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 6: JPEG compression is based on a fract a algorithm. Satellite communication, right, 542 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 6: you can't send all that data through. You create these 543 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 6: algorithms as you mentioned just a few minutes ago, and 544 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 6: it reinflates like a simulation back to the original sounds, 545 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 6: back to the original image. But if we accept that 546 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 6: it's really fractal, we would have access to a lot 547 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 6: more types of energy and energetic systems the way nature 548 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 6: really works, and that is the root of what's been 549 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 6: called cold fusion, even though that's not the best name 550 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 6: for it. Low energy nuclear reaction. These are fractally based 551 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 6: resonance systems around vortex shapes, and I think we've been 552 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 6: limited in understanding this because we want it to be 553 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 6: euclidian and easy. 554 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 4: To measure and so forth. 555 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 6: But if we accept that it's actually more self similar 556 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 6: and it branches off and the branches never really end 557 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 6: in thinking your body, every little sell in there has 558 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 6: to get oxygen. You need that fractal network. If we 559 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 6: worked more along fractal systems instead of making everything into 560 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 6: a grid and even looking grid, we would be working 561 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 6: more along the way nature actually works, and I think 562 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 6: we'd be able to solve a lot more of our 563 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 6: energy challenges right now than the way we're doing it. 564 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 6: So you know, this goes into the whole discussion of 565 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 6: resonance and resonance based systems, but you could have a 566 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 6: whole technology based on this, and I wouldn't be surprised 567 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 6: if that's how some of these UFOs actually generate these 568 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 6: changes that they do in their environment, is through some 569 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 6: sort of resonant effect rather than some sort of huge 570 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 6: application of energy. It's more like a frequency tuning type effect, 571 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 6: and that's where you end up with if you look 572 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 6: at fractals. 573 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 4: In my view, So the fractals really do matter. 574 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 6: Now, I'm not sure if it suggests like you propose, 575 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 6: I'm not sure if it suggests a simulation. But you know, Ron, 576 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 6: what it really suggests is that it's not as easy 577 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 6: to understand as you may have thought. I mean, we 578 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 6: can get people to the moon, we can run those 579 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 6: SpaceX rockets that you people who we've all got to 580 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 6: see now, you know, watching these launches on YouTube and 581 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 6: amazingly watching the booster come back, and that's all amazing. 582 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 6: That's all sort of linear Newtonian stuff, and it's good 583 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 6: for that. But in terms of understanding the complexity of 584 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 6: all the different types of life that are out there 585 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 6: and technologies, we would have to look at fractal structure more. 586 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 6: And that is it's a little messier looking because it's branching, 587 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 6: but we can still kind of get a sense of 588 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 6: how it works. But I think that's actually how nature works. 589 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 6: And we've been you know, we're like the outliers. We 590 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 6: think like we're the main thing in all us to 591 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 6: fit with the way we think, we're actually the exceptions. 592 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 6: We're the exceptions because we're insisting that it be linear, 593 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 6: even in your own body. It's all fractal processes we're 594 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 6: always trying to It leads us to be fighting nature 595 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 6: instead of working with it. 596 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,879 Speaker 5: Makes sense. Hey, we've got just a couple of minutes left. 597 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 5: I wanted to ask you before you go here, what 598 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 5: do you think people are experiencing when they encounter what 599 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 5: we call non human intelligence? What do you what do 600 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 5: you think it is? 601 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 4: Well? 602 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 6: I literally think that these are life forms just along 603 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 6: the conversation we're having now, that have learned to modulate 604 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 6: their resonance somehow, either through sound or through aggregating electromagnetic 605 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 6: charge electrical charge from the way that their bodies are built, 606 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 6: that they can literally operate in this other mode that 607 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 6: Ken Shoulders was talking about. I mean, this is my 608 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 6: personal view of it, and I'm happy to be proven wrong. 609 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 6: But I think these types of creatures that people talk about, 610 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 6: if we're talking about and you did mention ultraterrestrials before, 611 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 6: we didn't quite get to that. If we're talking about 612 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 6: lifeforms that are indigenous to Earth but still hard for 613 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 6: us to understand or make contact with, they could be 614 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 6: operating at this other level that Ken Shoulders was alluding to, 615 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 6: because they can modulate their frequency in a way that 616 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 6: gives them cloaking ability to move in ways that we 617 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,240 Speaker 6: can't usually move in that appearance that bigfoot often has 618 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 6: that they're gliding rather than walking. Maybe just like maybe 619 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 6: they're literally blurry, Maybe they really are gliding, and people 620 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 6: have seen them do this over water. They seem to 621 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 6: not weigh down on the water like you and I 622 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 6: would from eyewould this accounts, so it seems to me 623 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 6: that they're operating at a different frequency. 624 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 4: Just to kind of simplify it a little bit. 625 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 6: And just like UFOs can modulate the space time metric 626 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:16,240 Speaker 6: technologically through the meta materials in their very thin hulls, 627 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 6: I think some of these life forms that people are 628 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 6: encountering around and just a section of it are also 629 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 6: able to affect the space time metric. Lifeforms that can 630 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 6: affect the space tymetric naturally from sort of some fractal 631 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 6: frequency based set of principles. That's my gut feeling about it, 632 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,720 Speaker 6: based on all the people I've talked to have encountered 633 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 6: these times. 634 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 5: Well, if that's the case, then then that overcomes the 635 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 5: problem of distance of time, of having enough energy to 636 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 5: make these journeys faster than light travel, Radiation, all of 637 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 5: those things. Hey, listen, we're out of time here, Doc, 638 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 5: but thank you so much. It's really great stuff. I 639 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 5: really appreciate you taking. 640 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 4: The time man. Thanks Ryan, it was a lot of fun. 641 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 5: You guys can find doctor Heine at Simmy and High. 642 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 5: You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at c 643 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 5: I T D Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking 644 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 5: out contact intheesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational 645 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 5: as we explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio 646 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,720 Speaker 5: and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network. 647 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 648 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 649 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 650 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com