WEBVTT - Expanding Charging Networks with Melanie Lane, Shell Recharge 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.840 Hi, this is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switch 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:06.840 It on the bienn Of podcast and Happy New Year, 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.760 which I feel is a completely appropriate greeting for the 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.800 first two weeks of January, and when I think about three, 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:15.760 I have a feeling this is going to be the 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:18.599 best year yet. On this show, we're going to continue 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.079 with the interviews that I do with Bienny f analyists, 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.160 asking them about their research and what they're learning about 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.040 the energy transition, but we're also going to be baxing 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.560 in even more external interviews where Bienny of analysts speak 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.199 with external guests that are in the industries that we 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.200 cover today. We're going to kick off the new year 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.600 with just that an external guest, the CEO of Shell 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.760 Recharge Solutions Europe, Melanie Lane. On today's show, she'll be 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.240 discussing some of the biggest challenges and of course opportunities 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.320 facing the rollout of electric vehicle charging over the next 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:54.240 few years. Electrifying transport is a critical way to reduce 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.000 submissions to meet climate goals. So what if anything, is 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.600 holding the industry back, and is there enough renewable energy 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.080 supply to meet demand? And how are consumers and the 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:09.120 e V industry dealing with range anxiety. Today's interview is 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.560 conducted by Colin mccarricker. He's the head of Advanced Transport 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.039 at bienn e F. Please note that BIENNEF does not 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.400 provide investment or strategy advice, and our full disclaimer is 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.039 at the very end of the show. But now let's 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:26.360 hear Colin and Melanie's conversation about e V charging. Thanks 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.360 for joining everyone. I'm Colin mccarricker and I run the 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.160 Transport Automotive coverage at Bloomberg any F and today I'm 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.600 joined by Melanie Lane. Melanieer, the CEO of Shell Rechards 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.360 Solutions in Europe. Shell Recharge was previously New Motion, which 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.160 was founded over a decade ago in the Netherlands and 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.280 then acquired by Shell in Since then, the company has 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.920 been expanding its presence in the charging market, including acquiring 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:48.880 green lots in North America. The company's footprint now includes 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.800 access to a roaming network of nearly four thousand locations 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.720 across Europe. You're coming up to three years in the role, 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:56.680 but you've been at Shell for more than twenty years 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.200 in other parts of the business, including running the UK 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.680 retail business, US the aviation business across Europe and various 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.920 other rules. Welcome to the podcast, Melanie, Thank you so much. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.800 Great to be here, Great to have you here. So 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.000 I want to jump in with something that might be 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.560 a difficult question, but we may as well start with 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.000 some difficult things. First, electric mobility is really taking off 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.079 around the world. So we've seen EV sales go from 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.880 a few percent one to three in a lot of market. 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.640 We're expecting them to hit about of global vehicle sales 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.239 this year. That's battery electrics and plug and hybrids combined. 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:33.840 But that's on this really rapid acceleration trajectory. And I 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:38.480 guess my question is can charging infrastructure keep hop with 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.840 what's happening or will it be what slows down this 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.760 EV adoption story. I mean, it's such a fascinating question, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.640 isn't it. Because I often say that we are trying 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:52.359 to do in this EV space in what less than 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.000 five years, what it took nearly a century to do 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:00.560 in the world of hydrocarbons. So the effort require to 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.120 achieve the targets sort of being set at a global 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.320 level as well as at a country level, if massive, 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.320 and I think that's what makes is such an exciting 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.639 industry to be a part of. If we think then 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.480 about the infrastructure specifically, there's there are lots of things 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.119 that have to come together in order for those targets 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.880 to to be realized. But if we just think about 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.200 the infrastructure specific gram an ad minute, absolute infrastructure is 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.040 going to have to match the level of growth that 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.800 you just describe. We're talking so the end of all 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.120 goods to see there were more than thirty three thousand 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.200 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, which I mean 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.119 already was thirty percent more than the time the same 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.920 time the year before, and there's a target to have 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.920 three hundred thousand by twenty thirty and then a huge 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.920 amount of investment going into that. The trick is how 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.760 to bring that to life. And I think the experience 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.880 that we're seeing is it's actually really complicated. And it's 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:55.760 really complicated because you are building out a new ecosystem 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.520 and in order to get that infrastructure up and running. 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.480 It's not jumped to we're going to buy a charger 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:03.600 and we're going to stick it on this piece of land. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.560 It's about the connectivity with the grid. It's around the 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.880 organizations that are managing that process, not necessarily being set 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.120 up for the scale of demand, for the amount of 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.880 requests that are coming through, for the work to be 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.480 done that enables the kind of expansion of the fast 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:25.240 charging network that ecosystem is still really in its infancy. Likewise, 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.320 you've got global supply chain challenges as coming out the 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:33.400 back of COVID trick shortages, etcetera. You're seeing stressing both 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.599 in the system around the vehicle and supply, but also 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.120 around the supply of the hardware itself, and so secure 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.880 supply chains are super important. And then there's a whole 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.359 piece around the customer experience and how to make that 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.920 customer experience as seamless as possible, because even if you're 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:54.080 able to overcome your supply chain and your installation and 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:58.719 your grid upgrade, the customers need to have a seamless 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.920 and easy experience for them. This is a big transition 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:03.960 to make, and we see a lot of kind of 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.200 anxiety from drivers in making that transition, and so as 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.320 an industry, we need to come together to help them 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.400 do that. So, I think and we can unpack all 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.359 of these I think there's some really big pieces that 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.120 we're going to need to work on across the system 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.040 in order to enable that infrastructure growth to keep up 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.599 with with what's needed to match that those projected number 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:26.800 of vehicles on the road. Yeah, you touched on this, 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:29.760 and I think there are a lot of different moving pieces. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:30.960 But actually I want to come back to something you 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.520 said right at the beginning of that, which is that 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:35.640 we spend a hundred years building out the sort of 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:37.720 hydrocarbon or more than a hundred years build up the 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.360 hydrocarbon supply chain to keep vehicles moving in on the road, 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.480 and we're trying to do something new with electricity in 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.800 a much shorter time frame. Let's stay on that for 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.120 a minute, And how is this transition different than that 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.880 in terms of building up the supply chain for hydrocarbons. Obviously, 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.120 there's this timeframe element. We're trying to do it faster 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.080 than we did it in the past. But are there 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.320 other sort of systems level differences that you think about 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.720 when you compare the way it works in a molecule 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.120 based delivering molecules the gasoline or diesel to vehicles versus 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.200 an electrons based world. Is there some systems thinking there 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.560 that is very different to you? And how does that look, 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.320 so I think I mean even when our predecessores would 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.960 have been building a hydrocarbon at the very early days 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:18.880 of building up that system, yeah, it would have been 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.720 a new system that they were designing. I think what 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.880 we've got now as we transition is a number of things. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.560 And this is why I think systems thinking is so important. 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.280 You're not just replacing a piece of hardware. You're talking 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:35.200 about an end to end supply chain for this super 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.080 different and in an ideal world, you're talking about a 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:44.800 system that can increasingly rely on sustainable power so on 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.320 the go, charging at home, charging on street charging, etcetera. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:53.200 And thinking about cloud that end to end system is 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.520 going to flex and manage what is a massive increase 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.120 in demand over the next few years. So you're building 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.280 a new system, but you're also needing to build a 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:08.000 system at scale and for peak load, and you're trying 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.760 to do that very quickly. So that's kind of about 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:14.360 the chain that you're establishing. There is other component parts. 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.040 So one is around skills and expertise, and I go 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.960 back to the community may before you've got in each 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.680 different market that we operate in, the grid is set 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.480 up in different ways, so you have different interfaces, different 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.120 entities that if you just talk about like the grid 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.480 as a generic, we're talking about often national or kind 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.800 of institutions that aren't necessarily used to dealing with the 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:43.000 level of kind of commercial demand from multiple organizations, are 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.760 varying different sizes. It can be from a home all 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.160 the way through to a large complex fleet depot. You 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:54.800 don't have that capability in built into the system at 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.120 the moment. Likewise, if you look at the space of 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.120 installation and commissioning to get the hardware the equipment in 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:05.560 the ground, we predict quite a big shortage actually of 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.280 electricians in the short term, particularly the level of qualified 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.680 electricians you need to do this kind of work again 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.640 at this kind of scale. So you've got a capability 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:19.160 piece to the system that we need to address. You've 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:23.000 then got a piece around the regulatory environment. By the 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:24.880 time we got to the end of the last century, 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:30.120 the regulatory environment, whether you're talking about payment, calibration, quality 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:34.040 standards and all of those things were really well bedded 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.600 in and they have been built up over years experience 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.640 multiple kind of sources of expertise, and here it's all nascent, 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:45.199 it's emerging and countries across Europe are taking in some 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.040 cases consistent approaches, in some cases slightly different approaches to 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:53.800 how they're thinking about this and quality and assurance and compliance, 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.680 and so that is all kind of emerging and evolving 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.920 as we go. Add to them that it's an eCos 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:05.640 system that depends on hardware, but also it's very technology dependent. 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.480 So you've got the vehicle, you've got the grid, you've 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.679 got your hardware infrastructure, you've got your consumer. So you're 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.720 building out a new kind of software hardware ecosystem. And 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.959 then the last piece, as I said before, is consumer 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.080 behavior and they pay method role in this. So that's 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.040 what I mean by systems thinking. It's not just a 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.079 simple task of Okay, we're going to take out a 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.199 hydrogarbment PARKERM with ever going to put chargery. Actually, you've 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.240 got to think much more broadly about the system if 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.160 you're going to deliver the pace of sale that we're 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.040 talking about. I'll give you an example. We discovered this 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.120 really early on, this whole kind of ecosystem approach, and 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.560 our response to that in Europe has been within each 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.320 of the shell entities that operate in market, they have 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.840 set up what we've called revolution rooms where they bring 0:09:52.960 --> 0:10:00.440 together the necessary counterparties and capabilities too finst try the 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.520 rollout of infrastructure within our own network. And when you 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.760 go to those rooms that they're working in an agile way, 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.600 they have outcomes every two weeks, there's reviews every quarter 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.080 of the deep dives. The amount of people that we 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.240 need to draw into those rooms in order to affect 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.440 change the amount of capabilities, it's huge, and without bringing 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.680 those people together, we wouldn't be affecting the kind of 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:26.680 change to the kind of pace we are. So yeah, 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.840 that's what I mean about system thinking and how tall 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.120 it is. That's really important because I think one of 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.120 the things you mentioned there it was around how different 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.599 power markets and grids are, not just in terms of 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.079 the physical infrastructure, but also in terms of the regulatory 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.680 set up. The different lease involved are in different countries. 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.240 Each power system looks quite different than the one in 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.280 a neighboring country. It's quite a bit more different than 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:50.880 you find in the hydrocarbon supply chain, which maybe looks 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.040 a little bit more similar between countries, and then the 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.280 power system does. So I think that's a really important point, 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.880 is that there are very different groups of people you 0:10:57.920 --> 0:10:59.760 have to have in the room to get stuff done, 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.600 and country because of how varied power markets are and 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.360 electrical grid infrastructure is in each country. And we're going 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.880 to come back to this human resources question because everyone 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.040 thinks of building posts, right, they think of getting enough 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.160 posts in the ground, but maybe they don't think about 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.080 all the pieces behind that, or the right number of 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:15.880 people you need trained in the right way in order 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.040 to do that, or the permitting requirements in order to 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.240 do that. But we've jumped right into all the challenges. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.240 I want to actually now back up a bit and 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.360 say where are the brightest spot in the charging business 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.520 right now? Where are you seeing the most success and 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.320 what does that look like? Yeah, and I think there's 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:35.840 a few things to highlight. So coming into lead, what 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.240 was an emotion now shall recharge solutions? One of the 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:45.199 things you can't go past is the amount of energy 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:49.080 and innovation that is in this space right now and 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.719 working in an organization. We have more than six d 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:56.880 people now just in Europe, and people that are bringing 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:01.280 their talent to this space are fueled by real purpose 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.560 and passion and when you combine that purpose and passion 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.800 with deep papability and they're kind of the magic you 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.560 can make is too, So I would really want to 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.720 start with just how energizing actually it is to be 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.760 at the center of what is really a generational change. 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:19.880 And I think lots of people who work in the 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.440 industry are really motivated by that fact. We are past 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.040 that tipping point. This is a sizemic change and resources 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.240 are being put into making that happen. So I think 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.240 for me that is a massive bright spot. I think 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.880 linked to that piece on of the tipping point. I 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:40.079 think that big organization, so your FedEx, is your dhls, 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:45.040 your Amazon's, really are fundamental to making that energy transition happen. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.520 The total cost of ownership has shifted for them, and 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.520 you see a lot of feeling in a collaboration and 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.680 thinking through again, how are we going to design their 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.440 ecosystem so that they can transition effectively and quick And 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:05.160 so when you've got organizations of that scale alongside big 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.240 pieces of infrastructure so airports, our own networks, you start 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.640 to see that real momentum this is going to happen. 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.840 The big players really committed and really working through some 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.520 quite complex solutions to make this happen. And I think 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.200 that the term piece, I would say that it's bright spot. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.120 We had people from the UK depart for Transport as 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:27.080 well as Amsterdam City here in our office this week. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.920 We have an innovation lab and experience center that we 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.440 call it, and they came and spent time just really 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.040 listening and learning about what are the differences that we 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.520 experienced across different markets, what are the challenges with different 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.880 hardware requirements, policy regulation. There is a real desire, I 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.840 think or eye experience to learn and and collaborate, and 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.320 I think that's brilliant. So I think actually there's a 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.240 lot of bright spots across the landscape, and I think 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.800 we should be super positive. It's not an oth question 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.400 and it's just when and how fast really, so I'm 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.360 quite encouraged now for a very short break stay with us. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.480 You certainly meet a lot of people who tried any 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.760 vy one five years ago and then decided to change 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.960 their whole career around because they could see it was 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:13.880 a revolution in the way people were going to get 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.600 around and it changed their You talked to a lot 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.400 of people who have changed their whole career trajectory going 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.480 for a test ride in or something, and I always 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.760 find that fascinating in the emobility community. This this real 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.440 passion for the work that people are doing. You touched 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.920 on fleet there and some of the big operators. Can 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:31.600 you comment a bit about what you're seeing on that 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.440 sort of business to business or fleet market on the 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.560 charging front. Yeah, absolutely, I mean more and more we 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:44.600 are seeing large fleet owners asking for support and guidance. Again, 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.160 I can't say they word enough is collaboration. The large 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:53.320 fleet market need partners who can provide that kind of 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:57.400 three sixty whole ecosystem solution that they're looking for, because 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.440 most of those organizations need solution and across multiple parts 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.200 of the ecosystem. They need to be able to support 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.520 their charging hubs with both the infrastructure that they need, 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.760 the connectivity with a grid, that monitoring and operational support 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.600 to keep that infrastructure optimizing. This is the core of 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.440 how they make their money, so that infrastructure absolutely has 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.720 to work and give them the kind of quality outcomes 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.720 they need. But they also in many cases are looking 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.360 for border solutions. So what about sustainable power, what about 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.920 other kind of decolbonization solutions that we can support them 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.400 within other parts of their business. So this kind of 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.120 three sixty total approach. They're looking for, how do their 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.640 drivers charge when they're out on the road. They're looking 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.480 for or maybe my drivers need charges in the home 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.720 environment as well. So they're looking for partners who can 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.320 help them solutionize across all of those different pieces, and 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.640 a job really is to make all of that as 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.280 simple as possible, and over time there will be all 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.760 sorts of different innovations that you start to add to that, 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:01.160 especially around optimizing power, thinking of about how we manage 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.680 the demand on the grid, thinking about battery storage, solar, 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.680 et cetera. That ecosystem will continue to build out and grow. Yeah, 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.960 we're definitely seeing a lot more activity on the commercial 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:12.920 vehicle front, just in terms of sales, a lot of 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.320 it mostly in the smaller vehicles of vans, and we're 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.240 actually starting to see more of the big truck makers 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.240 launching electric models, whether that's Volvo or Daimler or Tesla 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.720 planning to bring it semi to market. Do you see 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.440 the solutions that Shell offers ending up going all the 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.720 way out to like the heaviest vehicles doing really fast 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.440 charging the longer route. Yeah, I'm to your point. We've 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.560 actually been working with some of the brands you just 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.720 mentioned with some of their vehicles actually in our knabs 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.440 looking at how do you provide the infrastructure for that 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.080 profile of a vehicle, we can see that do the 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.200 same thing that's really picking up. Yeah, there's something else 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.080 we've been noting in the market, and when we look 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.520 at a lot of the public charging networks for pass charging, 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.080 we're noticing that a lot of the prices are rising, 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.920 and in some cases quite dramatically. We did some analysis 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.160 just recently showing that in a lot of cases you're 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.320 depending on the network and the country, it varies a 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.439 fair bit, but in Europe you're often getting fast public 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.119 fast charging, ending up being pretty similar in terms of 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:13.239 cost per kilometer cost per mile driven to refueling with 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.280 gasoline or petrol or diesel as well. Now, a lot 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.040 of people still might do nine or more of their 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.240 charging at home and very occasionally used those public chargers. 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.240 But I guess the question I want to ask is 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.840 the fact that some public charging prices are rising up 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.520 to the point where they're comparable with petrol or diesel 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.560 on a per kilometer driven basis. Is that a problem 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.760 for the market? And I guess do you think that 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.480 comes back down, does its slow adoption just anything you 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.359 can comment on some of those rising prices and the 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.600 dynamics it might cause. Obviously, there's a lot of volatility 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.720 in the world that impact the prices throughout the system, 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.560 and I wouldn't want to comment specifically on pricing or 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.720 forecast or anything else. But if we just think about behavior, 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.399 what we see and are quite confident with is that 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.760 a VIA option is going to continue to grow. So 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.399 I think when it comes to making a switch to 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.959 whether that is at a company level or whether it's 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.880 an individual level, that total cost of ownership is super important, 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.800 whether you're a driver or whether you're an organization. And 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:16.760 so clearly the fact that there is a lot of 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.520 volatility in the world at the moment is something that 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:24.760 brings into sharp focus that total cost of ownership. That said, 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.919 we feel very confident that the overall trajectory of EAVY 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:34.199 adoption is set. Will you have maybe some ups and 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.000 downs or maybe a slight slow down because of a 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.159 variety of factors, partly volatinity, but also for example we 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:45.680 talked before about supply chain stability, maybe, but the overall trajectory, 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.560 we think it is kind of set and that adoption 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.440 is going to continue at a fast pace moving into 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.719 the future. It seems like so many things that are 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.320 driving up electricity costs, some of the same things are 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.919 also driving up cost of gasline and needle or pushing 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.840 more energy security concerns were living for a very complex time, 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.120 and I agree it's very hard to predict what happens next, 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.960 but certainly we agree with you at then f that 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.240 the die is a bit cast in terms of the adoption, 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:12.879 though there are going to be some bumps in the 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.200 road on different things. Can you talk a little bit 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.119 about this grid connection issue that you start to hear 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.320 more about in charging infrastructure. Can you get enough grid 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.920 connection capacity, can you get it done fast enough? Can 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:26.680 you get them in the right places where you want 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.840 to put chargers? Just anything you can comment on that 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.280 side of the equation of getting all these things hooked 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.240 up to the grid. So I think again a difference 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.560 by market. So certainly, if you look across your the 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:43.000 processes the different government ecocistants have in place vary. If 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.840 you look at the Netherlands, the penetration of on street 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.160 charging is far ahead of many other markets. For example, 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:56.440 there are indeed differences in the maturity of different countries 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:00.000 different cities in getting the infrastructure set up and run, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.320 particularly in the public domain. And I think if you 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.080 look at the Netherlands, for example, the penetration of on 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.880 street parking is far in excess of many other countries 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.359 or or the UK, and so there are differences. But 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.800 as a general rule, as you see the level of 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.520 demand growing, whether that is from the pieces of infrastructure 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.840 so like depot hubs for example, or whether it's on 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:26.040 street or whether it's even individual homes and communities, all 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:30.680 of that needs to be channel through a set of 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.680 let's call it grid operators to be just generical use 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:38.280 of terminology across Europe, and we need to make sure 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:42.320 that the permitcing process is the resourcing and the requirements 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.520 are made as simple as possible. So I'll give you 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:50.159 an example. If you're trying to provide sufficient level of 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.840 power to a highway site, for example, because you need 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.800 to put in a number of false charges, you need 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.960 a greater amount of powered pacity going into that site. 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.600 In order to get that set up. You might have 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.040 a ten monthly time in order to get the approvals 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:12.000 needed both from the commercial entity that's investing in the hardware, 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.000 the landlord that owns the property the hardware being installed on, 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.119 as well as the permit providers on the grid side. 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.679 That can take months, literally months, And so if you 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:29.240 extrapolate that from kind of one site across multiple networks, 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:34.920 across multiple markets, we need a significant shift in resourcing 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.520