1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Hi, this is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switch 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: It on the bienn Of podcast and Happy New Year, 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: which I feel is a completely appropriate greeting for the 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: first two weeks of January, and when I think about three, 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: I have a feeling this is going to be the 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: best year yet. On this show, we're going to continue 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: with the interviews that I do with Bienny f analyists, 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: asking them about their research and what they're learning about 9 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: the energy transition, but we're also going to be baxing 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: in even more external interviews where Bienny of analysts speak 11 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: with external guests that are in the industries that we 12 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: cover today. We're going to kick off the new year 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: with just that an external guest, the CEO of Shell 14 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Recharge Solutions Europe, Melanie Lane. On today's show, she'll be 15 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: discussing some of the biggest challenges and of course opportunities 16 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: facing the rollout of electric vehicle charging over the next 17 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: few years. Electrifying transport is a critical way to reduce 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: submissions to meet climate goals. So what if anything, is 19 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: holding the industry back, and is there enough renewable energy 20 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: supply to meet demand? And how are consumers and the 21 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: e V industry dealing with range anxiety. Today's interview is 22 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: conducted by Colin mccarricker. He's the head of Advanced Transport 23 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: at bienn e F. Please note that BIENNEF does not 24 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: provide investment or strategy advice, and our full disclaimer is 25 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: at the very end of the show. But now let's 26 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: hear Colin and Melanie's conversation about e V charging. Thanks 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: for joining everyone. I'm Colin mccarricker and I run the 28 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: Transport Automotive coverage at Bloomberg any F and today I'm 29 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: joined by Melanie Lane. Melanieer, the CEO of Shell Rechards 30 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: Solutions in Europe. Shell Recharge was previously New Motion, which 31 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: was founded over a decade ago in the Netherlands and 32 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: then acquired by Shell in Since then, the company has 33 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: been expanding its presence in the charging market, including acquiring 34 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: green lots in North America. The company's footprint now includes 35 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: access to a roaming network of nearly four thousand locations 36 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: across Europe. You're coming up to three years in the role, 37 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: but you've been at Shell for more than twenty years 38 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: in other parts of the business, including running the UK 39 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: retail business, US the aviation business across Europe and various 40 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: other rules. Welcome to the podcast, Melanie, Thank you so much. 41 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: Great to be here, Great to have you here. So 42 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: I want to jump in with something that might be 43 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: a difficult question, but we may as well start with 44 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: some difficult things. First, electric mobility is really taking off 45 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: around the world. So we've seen EV sales go from 46 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: a few percent one to three in a lot of market. 47 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: We're expecting them to hit about of global vehicle sales 48 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: this year. That's battery electrics and plug and hybrids combined. 49 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: But that's on this really rapid acceleration trajectory. And I 50 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: guess my question is can charging infrastructure keep hop with 51 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: what's happening or will it be what slows down this 52 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: EV adoption story. I mean, it's such a fascinating question, 53 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: isn't it. Because I often say that we are trying 54 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: to do in this EV space in what less than 55 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: five years, what it took nearly a century to do 56 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: in the world of hydrocarbons. So the effort require to 57 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: achieve the targets sort of being set at a global 58 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: level as well as at a country level, if massive, 59 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: and I think that's what makes is such an exciting 60 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: industry to be a part of. If we think then 61 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: about the infrastructure specifically, there's there are lots of things 62 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 1: that have to come together in order for those targets 63 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: to to be realized. But if we just think about 64 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: the infrastructure specific gram an ad minute, absolute infrastructure is 65 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: going to have to match the level of growth that 66 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: you just describe. We're talking so the end of all 67 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: goods to see there were more than thirty three thousand 68 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: electric vehicle charging points across the UK, which I mean 69 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 1: already was thirty percent more than the time the same 70 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: time the year before, and there's a target to have 71 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand by twenty thirty and then a huge 72 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: amount of investment going into that. The trick is how 73 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: to bring that to life. And I think the experience 74 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: that we're seeing is it's actually really complicated. And it's 75 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: really complicated because you are building out a new ecosystem 76 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: and in order to get that infrastructure up and running. 77 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: It's not jumped to we're going to buy a charger 78 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: and we're going to stick it on this piece of land. 79 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: It's about the connectivity with the grid. It's around the 80 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: organizations that are managing that process, not necessarily being set 81 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: up for the scale of demand, for the amount of 82 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: requests that are coming through, for the work to be 83 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: done that enables the kind of expansion of the fast 84 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: charging network that ecosystem is still really in its infancy. Likewise, 85 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: you've got global supply chain challenges as coming out the 86 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: back of COVID trick shortages, etcetera. You're seeing stressing both 87 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: in the system around the vehicle and supply, but also 88 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: around the supply of the hardware itself, and so secure 89 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: supply chains are super important. And then there's a whole 90 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: piece around the customer experience and how to make that 91 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: customer experience as seamless as possible, because even if you're 92 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: able to overcome your supply chain and your installation and 93 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: your grid upgrade, the customers need to have a seamless 94 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: and easy experience for them. This is a big transition 95 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: to make, and we see a lot of kind of 96 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: anxiety from drivers in making that transition, and so as 97 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: an industry, we need to come together to help them 98 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: do that. So, I think and we can unpack all 99 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: of these I think there's some really big pieces that 100 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: we're going to need to work on across the system 101 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: in order to enable that infrastructure growth to keep up 102 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: with with what's needed to match that those projected number 103 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: of vehicles on the road. Yeah, you touched on this, 104 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: and I think there are a lot of different moving pieces. 105 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: But actually I want to come back to something you 106 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: said right at the beginning of that, which is that 107 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: we spend a hundred years building out the sort of 108 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: hydrocarbon or more than a hundred years build up the 109 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: hydrocarbon supply chain to keep vehicles moving in on the road, 110 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: and we're trying to do something new with electricity in 111 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: a much shorter time frame. Let's stay on that for 112 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: a minute, And how is this transition different than that 113 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: in terms of building up the supply chain for hydrocarbons. Obviously, 114 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: there's this timeframe element. We're trying to do it faster 115 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: than we did it in the past. But are there 116 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: other sort of systems level differences that you think about 117 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: when you compare the way it works in a molecule 118 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: based delivering molecules the gasoline or diesel to vehicles versus 119 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: an electrons based world. Is there some systems thinking there 120 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: that is very different to you? And how does that look, 121 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: so I think I mean even when our predecessores would 122 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: have been building a hydrocarbon at the very early days 123 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: of building up that system, yeah, it would have been 124 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: a new system that they were designing. I think what 125 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: we've got now as we transition is a number of things. 126 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: And this is why I think systems thinking is so important. 127 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: You're not just replacing a piece of hardware. You're talking 128 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: about an end to end supply chain for this super 129 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: different and in an ideal world, you're talking about a 130 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: system that can increasingly rely on sustainable power so on 131 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: the go, charging at home, charging on street charging, etcetera. 132 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: And thinking about cloud that end to end system is 133 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: going to flex and manage what is a massive increase 134 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: in demand over the next few years. So you're building 135 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: a new system, but you're also needing to build a 136 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: system at scale and for peak load, and you're trying 137 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: to do that very quickly. So that's kind of about 138 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: the chain that you're establishing. There is other component parts. 139 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: So one is around skills and expertise, and I go 140 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: back to the community may before you've got in each 141 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: different market that we operate in, the grid is set 142 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: up in different ways, so you have different interfaces, different 143 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: entities that if you just talk about like the grid 144 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: as a generic, we're talking about often national or kind 145 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: of institutions that aren't necessarily used to dealing with the 146 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: level of kind of commercial demand from multiple organizations, are 147 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: varying different sizes. It can be from a home all 148 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: the way through to a large complex fleet depot. You 149 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: don't have that capability in built into the system at 150 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: the moment. Likewise, if you look at the space of 151 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: installation and commissioning to get the hardware the equipment in 152 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: the ground, we predict quite a big shortage actually of 153 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: electricians in the short term, particularly the level of qualified 154 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: electricians you need to do this kind of work again 155 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: at this kind of scale. So you've got a capability 156 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: piece to the system that we need to address. You've 157 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: then got a piece around the regulatory environment. By the 158 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: time we got to the end of the last century, 159 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: the regulatory environment, whether you're talking about payment, calibration, quality 160 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: standards and all of those things were really well bedded 161 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: in and they have been built up over years experience 162 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: multiple kind of sources of expertise, and here it's all nascent, 163 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: it's emerging and countries across Europe are taking in some 164 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: cases consistent approaches, in some cases slightly different approaches to 165 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: how they're thinking about this and quality and assurance and compliance, 166 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: and so that is all kind of emerging and evolving 167 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: as we go. Add to them that it's an eCos 168 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: system that depends on hardware, but also it's very technology dependent. 169 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: So you've got the vehicle, you've got the grid, you've 170 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: got your hardware infrastructure, you've got your consumer. So you're 171 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: building out a new kind of software hardware ecosystem. And 172 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: then the last piece, as I said before, is consumer 173 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: behavior and they pay method role in this. So that's 174 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: what I mean by systems thinking. It's not just a 175 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: simple task of Okay, we're going to take out a 176 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: hydrogarbment PARKERM with ever going to put chargery. Actually, you've 177 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: got to think much more broadly about the system if 178 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: you're going to deliver the pace of sale that we're 179 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: talking about. I'll give you an example. We discovered this 180 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: really early on, this whole kind of ecosystem approach, and 181 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: our response to that in Europe has been within each 182 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: of the shell entities that operate in market, they have 183 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: set up what we've called revolution rooms where they bring 184 00:09:52,960 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: together the necessary counterparties and capabilities too finst try the 185 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: rollout of infrastructure within our own network. And when you 186 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: go to those rooms that they're working in an agile way, 187 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: they have outcomes every two weeks, there's reviews every quarter 188 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: of the deep dives. The amount of people that we 189 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: need to draw into those rooms in order to affect 190 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: change the amount of capabilities, it's huge, and without bringing 191 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: those people together, we wouldn't be affecting the kind of 192 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: change to the kind of pace we are. So yeah, 193 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: that's what I mean about system thinking and how tall 194 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: it is. That's really important because I think one of 195 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: the things you mentioned there it was around how different 196 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,599 Speaker 1: power markets and grids are, not just in terms of 197 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: the physical infrastructure, but also in terms of the regulatory 198 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: set up. The different lease involved are in different countries. 199 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: Each power system looks quite different than the one in 200 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: a neighboring country. It's quite a bit more different than 201 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: you find in the hydrocarbon supply chain, which maybe looks 202 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: a little bit more similar between countries, and then the 203 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: power system does. So I think that's a really important point, 204 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: is that there are very different groups of people you 205 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: have to have in the room to get stuff done, 206 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: and country because of how varied power markets are and 207 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: electrical grid infrastructure is in each country. And we're going 208 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: to come back to this human resources question because everyone 209 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: thinks of building posts, right, they think of getting enough 210 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: posts in the ground, but maybe they don't think about 211 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: all the pieces behind that, or the right number of 212 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: people you need trained in the right way in order 213 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: to do that, or the permitting requirements in order to 214 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: do that. But we've jumped right into all the challenges. 215 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: I want to actually now back up a bit and 216 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: say where are the brightest spot in the charging business 217 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: right now? Where are you seeing the most success and 218 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: what does that look like? Yeah, and I think there's 219 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: a few things to highlight. So coming into lead, what 220 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: was an emotion now shall recharge solutions? One of the 221 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: things you can't go past is the amount of energy 222 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: and innovation that is in this space right now and 223 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 1: working in an organization. We have more than six d 224 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: people now just in Europe, and people that are bringing 225 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: their talent to this space are fueled by real purpose 226 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: and passion and when you combine that purpose and passion 227 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: with deep papability and they're kind of the magic you 228 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: can make is too, So I would really want to 229 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: start with just how energizing actually it is to be 230 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: at the center of what is really a generational change. 231 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: And I think lots of people who work in the 232 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: industry are really motivated by that fact. We are past 233 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: that tipping point. This is a sizemic change and resources 234 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: are being put into making that happen. So I think 235 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: for me that is a massive bright spot. I think 236 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: linked to that piece on of the tipping point. I 237 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: think that big organization, so your FedEx, is your dhls, 238 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: your Amazon's, really are fundamental to making that energy transition happen. 239 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: The total cost of ownership has shifted for them, and 240 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: you see a lot of feeling in a collaboration and 241 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: thinking through again, how are we going to design their 242 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: ecosystem so that they can transition effectively and quick And 243 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: so when you've got organizations of that scale alongside big 244 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: pieces of infrastructure so airports, our own networks, you start 245 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: to see that real momentum this is going to happen. 246 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: The big players really committed and really working through some 247 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: quite complex solutions to make this happen. And I think 248 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: that the term piece, I would say that it's bright spot. 249 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: We had people from the UK depart for Transport as 250 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: well as Amsterdam City here in our office this week. 251 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: We have an innovation lab and experience center that we 252 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: call it, and they came and spent time just really 253 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: listening and learning about what are the differences that we 254 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: experienced across different markets, what are the challenges with different 255 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: hardware requirements, policy regulation. There is a real desire, I 256 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: think or eye experience to learn and and collaborate, and 257 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: I think that's brilliant. So I think actually there's a 258 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: lot of bright spots across the landscape, and I think 259 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: we should be super positive. It's not an oth question 260 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: and it's just when and how fast really, so I'm 261 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: quite encouraged now for a very short break stay with us. 262 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: You certainly meet a lot of people who tried any 263 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: vy one five years ago and then decided to change 264 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: their whole career around because they could see it was 265 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: a revolution in the way people were going to get 266 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: around and it changed their You talked to a lot 267 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: of people who have changed their whole career trajectory going 268 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: for a test ride in or something, and I always 269 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: find that fascinating in the emobility community. This this real 270 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: passion for the work that people are doing. You touched 271 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: on fleet there and some of the big operators. Can 272 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: you comment a bit about what you're seeing on that 273 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: sort of business to business or fleet market on the 274 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: charging front. Yeah, absolutely, I mean more and more we 275 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: are seeing large fleet owners asking for support and guidance. Again, 276 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: I can't say they word enough is collaboration. The large 277 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: fleet market need partners who can provide that kind of 278 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: three sixty whole ecosystem solution that they're looking for, because 279 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: most of those organizations need solution and across multiple parts 280 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: of the ecosystem. They need to be able to support 281 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: their charging hubs with both the infrastructure that they need, 282 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: the connectivity with a grid, that monitoring and operational support 283 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: to keep that infrastructure optimizing. This is the core of 284 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: how they make their money, so that infrastructure absolutely has 285 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: to work and give them the kind of quality outcomes 286 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: they need. But they also in many cases are looking 287 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: for border solutions. So what about sustainable power, what about 288 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: other kind of decolbonization solutions that we can support them 289 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: within other parts of their business. So this kind of 290 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: three sixty total approach. They're looking for, how do their 291 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: drivers charge when they're out on the road. They're looking 292 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: for or maybe my drivers need charges in the home 293 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: environment as well. So they're looking for partners who can 294 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: help them solutionize across all of those different pieces, and 295 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: a job really is to make all of that as 296 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: simple as possible, and over time there will be all 297 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: sorts of different innovations that you start to add to that, 298 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: especially around optimizing power, thinking of about how we manage 299 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: the demand on the grid, thinking about battery storage, solar, 300 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: et cetera. That ecosystem will continue to build out and grow. Yeah, 301 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: we're definitely seeing a lot more activity on the commercial 302 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: vehicle front, just in terms of sales, a lot of 303 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: it mostly in the smaller vehicles of vans, and we're 304 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: actually starting to see more of the big truck makers 305 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: launching electric models, whether that's Volvo or Daimler or Tesla 306 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: planning to bring it semi to market. Do you see 307 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: the solutions that Shell offers ending up going all the 308 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: way out to like the heaviest vehicles doing really fast 309 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: charging the longer route. Yeah, I'm to your point. We've 310 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: actually been working with some of the brands you just 311 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: mentioned with some of their vehicles actually in our knabs 312 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: looking at how do you provide the infrastructure for that 313 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: profile of a vehicle, we can see that do the 314 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: same thing that's really picking up. Yeah, there's something else 315 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: we've been noting in the market, and when we look 316 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: at a lot of the public charging networks for pass charging, 317 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: we're noticing that a lot of the prices are rising, 318 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: and in some cases quite dramatically. We did some analysis 319 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: just recently showing that in a lot of cases you're 320 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: depending on the network and the country, it varies a 321 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: fair bit, but in Europe you're often getting fast public 322 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: fast charging, ending up being pretty similar in terms of 323 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 1: cost per kilometer cost per mile driven to refueling with 324 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: gasoline or petrol or diesel as well. Now, a lot 325 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: of people still might do nine or more of their 326 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: charging at home and very occasionally used those public chargers. 327 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: But I guess the question I want to ask is 328 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: the fact that some public charging prices are rising up 329 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: to the point where they're comparable with petrol or diesel 330 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: on a per kilometer driven basis. Is that a problem 331 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: for the market? And I guess do you think that 332 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: comes back down, does its slow adoption just anything you 333 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: can comment on some of those rising prices and the 334 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: dynamics it might cause. Obviously, there's a lot of volatility 335 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: in the world that impact the prices throughout the system, 336 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't want to comment specifically on pricing or 337 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: forecast or anything else. But if we just think about behavior, 338 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: what we see and are quite confident with is that 339 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: a VIA option is going to continue to grow. So 340 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: I think when it comes to making a switch to 341 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,959 Speaker 1: whether that is at a company level or whether it's 342 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: an individual level, that total cost of ownership is super important, 343 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: whether you're a driver or whether you're an organization. And 344 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: so clearly the fact that there is a lot of 345 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: volatility in the world at the moment is something that 346 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: brings into sharp focus that total cost of ownership. That said, 347 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: we feel very confident that the overall trajectory of EAVY 348 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: adoption is set. Will you have maybe some ups and 349 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: downs or maybe a slight slow down because of a 350 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: variety of factors, partly volatinity, but also for example we 351 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: talked before about supply chain stability, maybe, but the overall trajectory, 352 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: we think it is kind of set and that adoption 353 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: is going to continue at a fast pace moving into 354 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 1: the future. It seems like so many things that are 355 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: driving up electricity costs, some of the same things are 356 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: also driving up cost of gasline and needle or pushing 357 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: more energy security concerns were living for a very complex time, 358 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: and I agree it's very hard to predict what happens next, 359 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: but certainly we agree with you at then f that 360 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: the die is a bit cast in terms of the adoption, 361 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: though there are going to be some bumps in the 362 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: road on different things. Can you talk a little bit 363 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: about this grid connection issue that you start to hear 364 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: more about in charging infrastructure. Can you get enough grid 365 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: connection capacity, can you get it done fast enough? Can 366 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: you get them in the right places where you want 367 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: to put chargers? Just anything you can comment on that 368 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: side of the equation of getting all these things hooked 369 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: up to the grid. So I think again a difference 370 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: by market. So certainly, if you look across your the 371 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: processes the different government ecocistants have in place vary. If 372 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: you look at the Netherlands, the penetration of on street 373 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: charging is far ahead of many other markets. For example, 374 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: there are indeed differences in the maturity of different countries 375 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: different cities in getting the infrastructure set up and run, 376 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: particularly in the public domain. And I think if you 377 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: look at the Netherlands, for example, the penetration of on 378 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: street parking is far in excess of many other countries 379 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: or or the UK, and so there are differences. But 380 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: as a general rule, as you see the level of 381 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: demand growing, whether that is from the pieces of infrastructure 382 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: so like depot hubs for example, or whether it's on 383 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: street or whether it's even individual homes and communities, all 384 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: of that needs to be channel through a set of 385 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: let's call it grid operators to be just generical use 386 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: of terminology across Europe, and we need to make sure 387 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: that the permitcing process is the resourcing and the requirements 388 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: are made as simple as possible. So I'll give you 389 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: an example. If you're trying to provide sufficient level of 390 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: power to a highway site, for example, because you need 391 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: to put in a number of false charges, you need 392 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: a greater amount of powered pacity going into that site. 393 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: In order to get that set up. You might have 394 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: a ten monthly time in order to get the approvals 395 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: needed both from the commercial entity that's investing in the hardware, 396 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: the landlord that owns the property the hardware being installed on, 397 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: as well as the permit providers on the grid side. 398 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: That can take months, literally months, And so if you 399 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: extrapolate that from kind of one site across multiple networks, 400 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: across multiple markets, we need a significant shift in resourcing 401 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: and ways of working and how we think about the 402 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: system to get that infrastructure not just in place, put 403 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: up and running. We're going to need some changes there. 404 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: I think this is one of the issues that seems 405 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: to be coming up in multiple places. And I guess 406 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: the thing I'm always wondering about is do the costs 407 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: go up as we add more and more charging points 408 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: or do they go down? Most things, as we do 409 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: more of them, the costs go down. But getting a 410 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: grid capacity, maybe some of the easy spots get tapped 411 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: out and then you get the harder spots. Is there 412 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: any trend you can comment on there? Are the cost 413 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: of getting new sites connected, permitted connected to the grid, 414 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: Is that going up or down or staying the same, 415 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: or any dynamics you can comment on there. So I 416 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: think there's a few things packed into that. If you 417 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: take a part the different pieces got hardware, which is 418 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: a piece hardware over time will undoubtedly become more commoditized. 419 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: There will be more suppliers. Understanding of how to produce 420 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: high quality, consistent hardware will increase as experience increases, so 421 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, over time hardware will likely become more cost competitive. 422 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: We talked before about label installation, capability and color, level 423 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: of engineering resources that you need to facilitate this level 424 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: of change. That's going to be another driver of cost, 425 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: and that will again be about supplied month, right, So 426 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: do we have sufficient capacity in order to do all 427 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: the work that's required or is that a bottle neck. 428 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: There's a bottle neck across the industry, then that will 429 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: also be a factor. Certainly at a general level, these 430 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: are big investments sort of being made and will take 431 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: multiple years to pay back, and so I think both 432 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: governments and private organization already trying to think differently about 433 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: those investment cases and how to make the case for 434 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,239 Speaker 1: that early investment, recognizing that it's going to take some 435 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: time to fully pay back. And I think, yeah, that's 436 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: what I was talking before about. We need to think 437 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: creatively about the business models about how we work together 438 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: in that ecosystem. To make sure there are the right 439 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: incentives to go as fast as possible. Yeah, And are 440 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: there any big policy levers you're watching that you think 441 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: might accelerate that, or whether that's in the UK or 442 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: in the rest of Europe, is there any thing on 443 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: the policy front you're watching carefully now? Yeah, there's a 444 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: few pieces I think regulations around smart charging and so 445 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: the ability so as you roll out that ecosystem, whether 446 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: it's a business ago or at home, the ability for 447 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: smart charging to help manage that demand on the grid 448 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: is an increasing area of policy focused. There will likely 449 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: be more requirements on the public charge points, specifically aimed 450 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: at kind of ease of use, contact less payment, consistent 451 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: protocols across the network. That's a sign of a maturing industry. 452 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: And obviously there's a lot of discussion around the relationship 453 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: between the consumer the car, which is a piece of 454 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: technology in its own right, and the charging infrastructure and 455 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: how data is moved and owned and shared between those entities. 456 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:45,239 Speaker 1: So that's another area of interest and focus with policymakers. 457 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: And then I think lastly there's a piece around just consistency, 458 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: and when I say consistency around both consumer and also quality. 459 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: So again you've got a big growth market, lots of 460 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: new suppliers trying to meet consuming e It's in slightly 461 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: different ways, and the necessarily there will need to be 462 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: some standardization around what good looks like, what quality and 463 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: what standards would we expect across that networks. So I 464 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: think there are some specific areas of policy that we 465 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: look at and we would expect to continue to evolve 466 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,479 Speaker 1: into a probability would be the other obvious one across 467 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: networks and across countries. That's really helpful sort of smart 468 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: charging either use and then a relationship between the car, 469 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: the consumer and the charging infrastructure and the flow of data, 470 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: and also that sort of consistency and quality perspective across 471 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: all of it at all of the areas you're watching 472 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: on the policy front. Now for a very short break, 473 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: stay with us. If you had one request to policymakers 474 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: or to other stakeholders in the charging infrastructure or emobility business, 475 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: what would that request be. I think the request would 476 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: be twofold, would be collaboration and working with us within 477 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: the right time frames to deliver the vision that I 478 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: think we're all as firing to deliver. I think there 479 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: is there are real pockets of expertise and knowledge across 480 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: the industry, but it is still nascent, and to build 481 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: out the right policy frameworks is going to take really 482 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: listening and learning from those pockets of expertise to make 483 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: sure that the policy frameworks that developed are robust and 484 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: are sustainable for the long term and don't inadvertently create 485 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: barriers to scale into growth. I think that's really helpful, 486 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: and that's certainly a common thread across what you've been saying, 487 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: is that they need to get everyone together to to 488 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: ensure you're doing things both effectively and efficiently given the 489 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: time frames that we're trying to do this transition on. 490 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: I have one last question. Well, we talked on it 491 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: earlier about the kind of passion and drive that is 492 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: common amongst the community of people working around themobility. Do 493 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: you have any reflections on that coming from other parts 494 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: of Shell. Is there something Shall Recharge can learn from 495 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: the rest of the broader Shell business and vice versa. 496 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: Is there something that the broader Shell business can learn 497 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: from Shell Recharge. This is one of the most motivating 498 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: parts of what I do, and I have such a 499 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: strong belief in the power of the big and the 500 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: small coming together and being able to leverage respective strengths. 501 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: I think when you're looking at what Shell has deep 502 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: experience and expertise in you're talking about brand, you're talking 503 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: about deep supply chain expertise, delivery, deep relationships with customers 504 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: all across the world backed by real customer insight, strong 505 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: relationships with regulators, and the ability to drive change and 506 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: transformation in complex systems at scale. But that's what Shell 507 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: has grown up doing over the last hundred years, and 508 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: that is what this industry needs. At the same time, 509 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: have acquired a number of smaller entities. We're one of them, 510 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: and they bring a lot of kind of purpose driven 511 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: these as So people have joined these companies for a reason. 512 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: It's not for a job. It's because they believe, even 513 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: an outcome, they believe in the purpose and I think 514 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: that kind of energy is super motivating. I think we 515 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: are bringing tech product capabilities and agile ways of working 516 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: that have been far easier to instill in a small 517 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: organization where you're working on a kind of daily, weekly, 518 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: bi weekly sprint basis to deliver outcomes much faster, then 519 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: sometimes it's possible. Right, it's a large, big, corporate enterprise, 520 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: and so if you can marry those two things together 521 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: at I think it's a super powerful combination and it's 522 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: one of the things that is probably the most exciting 523 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: about the role that I do at the moment. That 524 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: is really exciting now. And definitely the idea of being 525 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: able to move at the gale with the support of 526 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: a big organization behind you while still maintaining some of 527 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: that dynamism is certainly a big part of what needed 528 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: to get things from going accelerating as they need to do. 529 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Mal, It's been great to speak 530 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: to you today. Thanks so much for coming on the 531 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: program and talking to us about the outlook for charging 532 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: infrastructure and you're roll within it and what you're happening 533 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: in the next few years. Thank you, Thank you. Today's 534 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: episode of Switched On was edited by Rex Warner of 535 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: gray Stoke Media. Bloomberg an f A is a service 536 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates. This recording 537 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: does not constitute, nor should it be construed as investment advice, 538 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: investment recommendations, or recommendation as to an investment or other strategy. 539 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg an e F should not be considered as information 540 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: sufficient upon which to base an investment decision. Neither Bloomberg 541 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: Finance LP nor any of its affiliates makes any representation 542 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the 543 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: information contained in this recording, and any liability of this 544 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: recording is expressly disclaimed