WEBVTT - Fake It and You'll Make It: Elmyr de Hory 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.880 Ridiculous Crime is a production of I Heart Radio. Hiz 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:08.319 what up, Elizabeth? Nothing? Um, I wanted to tell you something, 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.280 but oh my god, thank you. So I'm so glad 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.920 you noticed. Yeah. I made it myself. I plucked them myself. 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.520 It's really I can tell the bloodstains. Yeah, you go 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.799 do something first time. You can't always winning. Uh, do 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.600 you want to know what's ridiculous? Oh? Yeah, girl, I've 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:31.120 been waiting to tell you this. George Washington's death. That's no. No, 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.960 I know that sounds disrespectful for the nation's first president. 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.200 I'm not saying that. I'm not making fun of his death, 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.280 but rather, I'm kind of making fun of the state 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:41.800 of medicine at the time, because George Washington went out 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.920 and did this thing that like my mother and millions 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.240 of other mothers have told you, which is, don't wear 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.920 wet clothes or you'll catch your death. We wet clothes. Well, 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.599 that's essentially what happened to Washington. The story goes, he's out, 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:57.320 he's like riding around on horseback and Mount Vernon. It's raining, cats, dogs, 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.000 and everything else. He rides back to his house for dinner, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.560 but he's a hard head like me. He refuses to 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:04.200 change out of his wet clothes, like I want to 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.160 eat my steak wet, right, So he's sitting there, he's 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:08.160 doing it. He gets sick, he gets a sore throat. 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.720 His doctors like, well, clearly we need to drain him 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:12.640 of nearly half of his blood, and so they do. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.320 They drain him of forty percent of dudes blood. Now 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.759 drained out, zombie Washington starts circling the drain. Right, he's 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.200 about to die. Physicians aren't done. They're like, oh, though, 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.680 this is we need him to gargles butter, molasses and 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:31.119 uh looking around, vinegar butter. He's garland, butter, vinegar and molasses. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.720 And when that doesn't work, surprise, surprise, doctors are like, 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.280 you know what it is. We need to feed him beetles. 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.760 So they feed him beetles, and then, surprisingly, eating beetles 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.920 does not save the nations for his president. Three days 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.880 after he gets sick, George Washington up and dies. So 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.280 my point is, listen to your mother, don't sit around 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.960 and wet clothes. It's a good, okay, ridiculous, And don't 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.840 eat beetles. That is ridiculous. Do you want to know 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.480 what else is ridiculous. I'm here for dedicating your incredible 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:19.560 talent to forging, only to be forged. Yes, this is 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.919 a ridiculous crime. A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:31.560 cons it's always murder free and ridiculous that you know. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.359 I love a good art crime because for the most part, 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:40.200 they're not violent or destructive. And since I'm convinced that 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.680 much of the art world is a cover for money laundering, 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.440 I usually don't feel so bad. I do feel bad. 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.920 It's like a beloved or famous piece of art that 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:54.959 normally lives in a publicly available space is stolen or away. Yeah, 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.720 but if it's like taken away to a Russian oligarchs mansion, yeah, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.600 that's terrible. Yeah. I don't like for the public to 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.640 be robb to access to beautiful, important or historical items. 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.360 We've talked about. Yes, let us keep our cara. But 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:13.440 a private collector getting scammed count me in. Yeah. U. 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.519 One of the great types of art crimes is forgeries. Yeah. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.600 And did you know that it's estimated that between and 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.280 of paintings in museums around the world are fakes. Yeah? 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.079 I actually did that interview the FBI art guy. That's right, 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:31.400 you saying that, and that blew my mind when I 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:36.320 so pretend I just heard that. Holy wow. So what 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.600 fascinates me about forgeries is that the perpetrators, they have 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.840 artistic talent completely, you know, but the artist in their 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.160 own rights, sometimes their own work just doesn't resonate with 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.640 the world, or maybe they don't have the right contacts 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.680 to get recognition sure, or they're still alive. Other times 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.200 they can basically only work from assignment, you know what 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.200 I mean, Like, so they can only copy the art. Yeah, 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.920 so they're not true artists. Um, they take direction. Let 0:03:59.920 --> 0:04:03.760 me tell you about a true artist. He had incredible 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.440 talent on his own, but he was also an incredible mimic. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.920 And after World War Two, this artist went to Paris. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:14.880 One day in Lady Malcolm Campbell was visiting his house 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.720 and saw an ink drawing on the wall. She said 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:19.720 she was certain it was a Picasso and she wanted 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.320 to buy it, and he didn't tell her that it 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.080 was his own work. He charged her less than the 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.720 equivalent of like a hundred bucks for it. Not a 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.120 bad payday on a drawing for an unknown artist. It 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.599 pays to have rich friends. Is basically that he pretending 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.240 like he also didn't know if it was a Picasso. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.640 Do we know that he He doesn't say one way, 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:40.880 Oh yes, you know, just like like kind of he 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.240 passes it off as the real thing. But then he 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.240 realizes that his copycat skills are his real talent. So 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.320 he's broke, he's struggling, and he's able to make some 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.400 cash and make someone happy. So it's a win win. Here, 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.640 she thinks, like I scored, I had this beautiful Picasso drawing. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:03.440 Who was this man, sarin Um. This man was Wilfred Brimley. Yes, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:10.120 his name was Elmir do Hori. I referred to him 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.680 as I referred to him as elmerd Hori before when 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:19.240 I told you about Clifford. But I realized that that's 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:23.159 not how you say his name. Um. So he was 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.360 the artist that Clifford Irving wrote the book about. He 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.560 wrote a book called Fake exclamation Point, The Story of 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:33.760 Elmir de Hori, the Greatest art forger of our Time. Um, 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:38.760 I told you oas hoax fake. I told you that 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.520 Tori was a piece of work and deserved his own episodes. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.760 Here it is so I should add that the best 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.880 information on. This guy comes from Clifford Irving's book. Is 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.839 it reliable though well to con man making two conman 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.640 making one great story. It calls into questions the materials 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.800 presented as fact, but let's just say it is and 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:01.320 enjoy the ride. So elm Arta Hori was actually born 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:07.440 Elmer Albert Hoffman in Budapest, Hungary, in n six So 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.279 he liked to tell people that he was from this 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:14.159 family of aristocrats like bankers, financiers, top government officials, my mother, 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.279 the countess. He was actually from a very lovely, very 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.560 middle class Jewish family, and um, they believed in his talent, 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.440 so they sent him off for formal training at the 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.120 nagy Banya Artist Colony. I'm probably not saying that right 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.080 in Romania when he was only sixteen years old. Ye, 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:32.599 based on how you said, I thought it was in Japan, 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.320 so probably not. I'm totally saying it wrong. I'm sure 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:39.240 of it that that's my hidden talent. Um. So then 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:41.839 he goes on to study at the Academy Hineman in 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:47.560 Munich and then at Academy Lean in Paris, so he 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.200 gets trained as a classical painter. In these places. There's 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.840 a problem with that though no one's paying for class card. No, 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:58.960 all these new experimental avant garde movements Cubism, Expressionism are 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.200 all the rage in this kicking it. At that point, 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.160 most of what he learned is outdated, it's useless, and 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.280 the art community is just like, why, we don't even 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.680 care about the focus anymore. So the economy is also 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.400 taking of time um, and it's starting to look like 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.720 being an artist just isn't a way for him to 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.160 make a living. But he's dedicated most of his life 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:24.080 to it so far. Enter crime, always Door. Committed a 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.640 bunch of minor crimes in Geneva in the late twenties 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.720 and then into the nineteen thirties, just a little petty 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.720 stuff here and there. And then at the beginning of 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.280 World War Two he went back to Hungary. Dicey, right, 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.400 so he picked the other side. Well, he had a 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.840 friendship there with this British journalist that was believed to 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.320 be a spy, and so that raised red flags and 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.000 he gets sent to a prison for political dissidents in Transylvania, 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.560 and I have my suspicions about why they really sent 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.440 him there, but more on that later. So while he's there, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:58.400 he paints a portrait of the prison camp officer, and 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.720 they sparked this friend ship. He's just blown away by 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.040 his talent. So they eventually released a Hory. But then 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.239 he gets him prisoned in a concentration camp for being 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.400 gay and Jewish. And I think that's how he wound 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.040 up in the Transylvanian prison in the first place. This 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:19.880 World War one. He's at the during World War two. Okay, okay, 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.920 So he gets sent to a concentration camp. He's tortured. 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.880 They break his leg and then they transfer him because 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.160 of this like terribly broken leg, they transfer him to 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.640 a Berlin prison hospital. He escaped because he noticed that 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.200 the gate entrance to the hospital was open, so he 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.320 like he's in pain, he grabs some crutches and just 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.240 makes a break for it. Right, He goes out and 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.079 he goes to the homeless some of his friends. They 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.200 take him in and then he makes his way back 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.280 to Hungary and he learns that his family home has 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.560 gone and his parents have been killed. It's horrible. So 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.680 at the end of the of World War two, there's 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:58.040 Dory selling fake Picasso sketches because who cares, That's what 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.640 I say. But when you survive what hes vibe, I say, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:02.880 do whatever you want. He goes to Paris and then 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.760 he's selling like these fakes. Good. Great, you get to 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:07.800 do whatever you want. If you can count some rich 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.400 person out of a few francs, more power to I 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.720 don't care. So the thing about Doris fake artwork, though, 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:17.280 is that um he didn't try to reproduce existing works. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.640 He created new pieces in the style of famous artists. 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.280 So he created works that did not exist but look 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.840 like like they exactly. So he knew he was a 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.640 great mimic. He started selling what he were calling Picasso 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.960 pieces to art galleries all over Paris. He said that 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.160 he was a displaced Hungarian aristocrat and he's just trying 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.800 to survive by selling what was left of his family's estates. 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.840 This is what my family has left. Or he'd say 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.000 that he got the Picasso, gave them to me. He 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.440 was my friend before the war. I just want to 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:52.560 I want to sell them. We all hung out. He 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.000 sold a bunch of them of fakes in Sweden and 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:57.719 that gave him enough cash to get a one way 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.120 ticket to Rio de jannarro In. Say yes, cash out, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.160 my brother, he will survive and I love him for that, 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.640 like he's just he's he cannot hold him down. So 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:09.840 he still tried to make it as an artist with 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.640 his own work. But in the meantime the fakes were 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.600 like paying the bill for him. So he visits the 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.560 US on a three month visa. He's able to get 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.200 a show there at the Lillanfeld Galleries in New York 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.439 in and that was all his own work. Per Art News, 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.960 this is what they said, Doris pieces struck quote the 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.160 well known chord of the School of Paris, which is 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.400 a way of saying yawn, not into it. He only 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:42.240 he sold one piece at the show. Um, like these 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.160 would be good in a motel, right, So, despite how 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.280 cruel the New York art world had been to him, 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.600 he decides to make a go of it there. Um. 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.880 He overstayed his visa and he lived in the US 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:57.439 for the next twelve years, just by a smith. Um. 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.800 He moved from New York to l A to Chicago 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.760 to Miami, selling all his forgeries all good art markets 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:07.240 and in America, right, he sells to galleries, museums, even 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.200 major A list celebrities. And by that I mean Ja 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:16.720 jacobor yeah girl, He's moved beyond just Picasso sketches into 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:21.960 serious works. He created fake originals from Madigliani, Matisse, and Renoir. 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.679 The Madigliani's are fantastic, by the way, Yeah, they're incredible, 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:31.199 They're beautiful. He created so many Madigliani pieces that Kenneth Wayne, 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.800 the director of the Madigliani Project, had trouble compiling a 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.360 comprehensive catalog of the artist's work. He's just doing there 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:43.360 are too many fakes distort through. So in seven uh 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.400 Dori he goes to the Pearls Gallery in New York 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.520 and it's open. It was opened by these brothers, Klaus 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.080 and Frank. Pearls were these really well known European art dealers. 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.880 They opened it in nineteen thirty seven and they displayed 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:01.600 significantly P. E. R. L S. So they had all 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.520 these really significant works of contemporary art they really brought out. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:13.280 They kind of helped foster Alexander Calder's work, George brock Brock, 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.760 and they had all of this. So Dori sold to 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:23.160 quote unquote Picassos to Klaus Pearls, and later on in 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.959 ninety two, he's in l A. Dori is selling his 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.240 forgeries to galleries. There he ends up walking into the 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.040 Frank Pearls gallery. So one of the brothers has a 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.560 gallery in Beverly Hills, and one of the brothers meaning 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:42.960 they're related, So Frank, so Frank Pearls. He's really interested 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.160 in the pieces that Dori has, but he starts noticing 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.679 that there are similarities between the pieces that it were 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.400 supposed to be created by different artists. Like he's just 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.960 seeing these little threads. This is what Clifford Irving said 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.280 in his book Fake Quote. The longer Pearls looked at 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.520 the pictures, the more concerned he became. It was clear 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:06.000 that something was wrong, and Pearls, worrisome of expression, discomforted Elmir. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.840 Pearls questioned Elmir about his address and other detailed personal information, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.880 causing Elmir's nervousness to grow. Pearls then calmly placed the 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.960 pictures back into the portfolio, tied the strings, and then 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.960 suddenly through the mat at Elmir. Elmir was shocked by 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.680 the unexpected action and was uncertain what to do next, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.000 until Pearls ordered him to get out. To Pearl's surprise, 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.080 Elmir asked, after being thrown out of the gallery, whether 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.160 he thought the drawings were well done, Pearls replied, they 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.160 certainly fooled me for a few minutes before ordering the 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.719 counterfeiter away again at somehow weirdly heartbreaking that He's like, 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.000 were they at least good? When he gets tossed out 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:44.440 of the gallery, you have more heart than I do 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.880 in that. To me, that just sounds like, come on, now, 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.560 what are we doing here? More and more galleries are 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.560 becoming suspicious because it's like there's little whispers right. So 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.480 in order to get around this, he comes up with 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.720 a bunch of aliases and starts doing all of his 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.920 deals through the mail bad So what are some of 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.880 his alias's Elmer Hoffman, Lament her Hoffman, Baron de Hory, 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:13.800 Hory Cury, Harry Hory, Baron rain All Rain or Rain 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:22.240 all Compe, They herd Sog, Baron de Bougaday, Baron von Bay, Elmer, Laslow, Dorey, 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:27.560 Dory Bouten, Dory Bouten, Cassue Robert or Cassue, Charles, Louis 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:35.680 Curiel or Curiel Charles. He's he's just rolling the dice 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.520 on these randoms. The awesome. In the mid fifties, he 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.520 gets busted for the first time, not criminally, but in 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.800 his world. Um, so he doesn't get tossed out of 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.840 a gallery, but he gets marked as a con man 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.800 in the art world. I thought, busted up. No, well, 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.840 he sold a Matisse supposed Matisse drawing to the fog 0:14:56.040 --> 0:15:00.440 Museum at Harvard, and when the sale was finalized, he said, oh, 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.440 you know what, I also if you like those, I've 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.760 got a Madigliani and a Renoir if you're interested in 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.560 And they're like, so the curator is like, all right, 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.640 let me lays him out. He takes She takes a 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.240 closer look, and then just like Frank, pearls too much 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.040 of a stylistic similarity between the Batists that should they 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.120 just purchased and the Madigliani and the ren Walk. So 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.600 she refuses his offer, and not just that. Then she 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.600 gets on the phone. She's starts reaching out to all 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.280 the other museums. Hey, did you recently buy any art 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.120 from like a smooth talk in European fella going by 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.440 the name of e Renal. And then with those calls, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.240 the word gets out when we come back, I'll tell 0:15:37.280 --> 0:16:01.240 you how Elmire dealt with this development, Zaren We're back. Hey, 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:05.200 you look at us, good ads right by the way, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.120 I spent some of your money on this. Yeah, I'm 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.040 gonna put your purse back in cand in my pocketbook. 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.160 All right, well we'll see. Uh where where where was 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.400 I before? We were so rudely interrupted by those phenomenal lots? 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.680 Had just gotten busted down by those right. So he's 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:26.840 selling Elmir do Hori, selling paintings inspired by famous artists, 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.640 passing them off as designer originals, not designer and fosters. 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.840 So he gets called out by a curator at Harvard, 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:39.000 and now everyone's wise to him. So a Chicago art 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.160 dealer named James Faulkner, he bought some paintings from door 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.000 in and then he found out they were fake. So 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.280 he pressed charges for mail and telephone fraud because remember 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.960 you said federal lawsuit, right, Um, don't do crime in 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:57.800 the U S. Mail, Never stop your CMO. I'm not 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.680 sure what became of that lawsuit, but he decided to 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.440 head down Mexico way out of here. He goes to 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.760 Mexico City. He moves there, but he gets caught up 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.520 with the cops there too, only this time it was 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.840 Elmir getting conned because the Mexican police said that they 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.600 thought he was involved in a man's murder, and he's like, 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.160 I have I've never met the guy you're talking about. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.960 I have no idea that, right, I'm a different kind 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.440 of crimer. So then the police try and extort him 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.760 and his lawyer. Door pays his lawyer with one of 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:31.040 his paintings, and the Federal him so he's like whatever, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.480 I'm out of here. He leaves Mexico City comes back 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.080 to the United States. When he gets back, he sees 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.239 that the galleries were selling his forgeries for way more 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.280 than he sold them for. Now. It just goes to 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.040 show that the art dealers are willing to look the 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:45.840 other way if they can make some money. If everyone 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.440 kind of there's like the open secret of these aren't real. Yeah, 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:54.080 they don't want other people to know that. But he's 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.480 also so Dori seeing this. But he's also a person 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.480 of interest with the FBI, right, so he tries to 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.879 lay low. He gets this like really meager apartment in 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.080 l A. Tries to make a go of it as 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.960 a legit artist and in order to sell paintings like 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.359 we had to paint what the people wanted. Um and 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.359 that meant, according to Clifford Irving's book, mostly paintings of 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.639 pink poodles for interior decorators. Not what I thought you 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:17.600 were going to say, Well, like, what a wild time 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.760 for interior decord totals? Was the pink poodle the live 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:26.040 Laugh love Decalivin's day? Yes, I think so. Yeah. So 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.840 things got bad in l A. It was a dark 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.480 time for him, so he decided to move back to 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.240 New York. According to Clifford Irving to Hoary through a 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.159 party while living in New York, lavish super edgy stars 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:42.640 like Marilyn Monroe show up, this Arthur Miller Monroe. Yes, 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.080 so she's like she's out there with this kind of 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:49.800 like um crowd. Uh. And it was there that he 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:54.240 met his future long term accomplice for non Legro, Yes, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.240 now legro he Okay, I have to pull up a 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.840 pickle on His name is fern Lgro like grow the fern. Okay, 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.920 So for non Legro right, Uh, this is what he 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:14.280 looks like, right, He's like, he looks like he's like 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.040 if Shooter Jennings and Rick Rubin had a kid and 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.520 and the kids smells like mildew and they let River 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.399 Phoenix raise him. Yes, it's amazing, So we'll put that 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.160 picture up. So for non Legro, Legro he's a gay 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.479 man who married an American woman in order to get 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.359 US citizenship. He was born in Egypt ninety one, so 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.840 he's like, you know, thirty years younger than uh elmir uh. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.200 So from that moment on, Dehor and Lagro they're inseparable. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.200 After they meet at this car, I don't know, I 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.399 don't think they were a couple. Umdhri seems like he 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.440 was just like his older mentor sort of. Um he's 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.959 but anyway, so he's got likedor's got Lagro being all 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.320 super groovy riding around with him. Good cover is like, 0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.800 you know what, let's move back to Miami. I like 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.600 you look, screams Miami. So he convinces him to go 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.040 down there with him and act as his quote unquote 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.359 agent art agent. So Lagros was like, yeah, you know what, 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.560 and um, I'll take a cut. That's more than an 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:19.080 agent a little bit, right. So they moved to Miami. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:23.159 They start traveling all over selling these forgeries. Lagro was 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.600 the face of the deals and Dhari just kept turning 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.000 them out. So um. In Miami, Lagro met a French 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:34.800 Canadian teenager named Real Lissard. Yeah, and Lagro and Lessard 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:39.160 they hook up and become lovers. Look, Lessard also becomes 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.560 an accomplice in this. So now it's Lagro and Lessard 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.840 who are the faces. They're the ones selling the paintings 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:50.320 swan around the art world. Door creates these fake masterworks 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:52.760 Lagro and Lessard. They're selling them all over the world 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.800 for like the next thirteen years. Right. They create fake 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:01.359 stamps of authenticity. Uh. They acquired old art books and 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.320 swapped out the pictures of actual works with art of 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:08.440 art with the copies of his forgeries. You know. Um, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.000 when one time Lagro crosses the US border and his 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:17.239 luggage gets inspected and um, customs officers they called an 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.640 art experts to verify you know that what these were. 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.879 He's telling customs they're just copies there, that's you know. 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.200 Then the experts look at them and they're like, no, 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.720 these are authentic. So they fool the experts and Lagro 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.879 has to pay attack. So he did. But he wanted 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.800 that to happen because that got him actual US customs 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:44.040 documentation verifying the optics. Yeah. Yeah, so nineteen nine to 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.680 Hori is tired of like this loud violently relationship between 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.719 Lagro and Lasard, like they're just yeah, it's a very 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.480 fiery thing. He's not. He's like there for very much. 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:58.160 So uh Dri goes back to Europe. He's like, I'm 0:21:58.160 --> 0:21:59.879 out of here. Who does he run into in Paris? 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:07.840 Lagadah spills a secret to Lagro. He's like, look, I 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.600 still have a collection of fake painting stored in New York. 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.560 And then Lagro but they're like in this locker you 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:15.920 can't get into. So Lagro figures out how to steal 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.240 them and sell them, and then convinces Dhry, like, get 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:21.800 back in the game, start painting, We'll sell them. You 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:25.080 can't help it. So in nineteen six they get back 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.919 into it. In nineteen sixty two, Lagro and Lasard they 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:32.840 convinced Hori to move to Ibiza. Right, but see Abisa 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:38.560 wasn't the party in vacation destination then that it is now? No, 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:40.880 not Then At that time it was like a really 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:47.200 poor rural island. Well it was like a haven for 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:50.760 artistic exile. So the cost of living was really so 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:53.400 cheap at that point. Yeah, it was like this misfits 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.119 art commune. The landscape totally unspoiled because they don't have 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:00.919 all this like development, living super cheap. Artists and thinkers 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:02.840 who felt like they didn't have a place elsewhere in 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.960 the world went there and created a family. Um. It 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.120 was also attractive for criminals and con artists to hang 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:12.119 out because Franco was still in power then, so it 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:14.159 was like a hideaway out of the reach of interpal 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.600 So Franco was good for that way. So Lagro and 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:23.239 Leguard they rent Dhri this gorgeous villa Anybisa, but they 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:25.280 put him on a small allowance of about like four 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.040 a month to keep him working creating more forged works 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.040 of art. It was enough to let him live comfortably 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:36.159 and like also be free of risk. Did they live there, No, No, 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:41.440 they had this like absolutely lavish life in Paris. Oh yeah, 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.440