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Speaker 1: What's up his way up at Angela.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm here, Jasmine Brand is here, and I'm ready

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Speaker 2: for this journalism talk. But some Na Krishna Murphy in

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Speaker 2: the building. I called you Somya k all the time

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Speaker 2: because that's your name on social media.

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Speaker 3: We've known each other a long time since the blog era.

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Speaker 4: Anyone remembers, I remember Angela was outside during Yes, that way. Oh,

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Speaker 4: I think you're still outside, but yeah, she's driven me home.

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Speaker 3: A few times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was outside.

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Speaker 4: She's the responsible friend and somehow she would make it

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Speaker 4: to like an early morning show.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how.

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Speaker 5: You know how she did that.

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Speaker 1: Listen, I'm glad I don't have to do that no more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but yes, Sony and I have known each other

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Speaker 2: for quite some time, and what I love is that

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Speaker 2: you've been so consistent and also evolving with your journalism.

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Speaker 2: And I'm afraid to say certain things that some people

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Speaker 2: may play it politically correct.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great thing. When you're not on a

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Speaker 4: rapper's payroll, you can basically say whatever you want. But

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Speaker 4: you know, for me, it was important as somebody who's

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Speaker 4: been in the industry for I'm gonna age myself about

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Speaker 4: fifteen years now, and being a journalist, you know, start

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Speaker 4: out with those small little pieces and like a double

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Speaker 4: excel or the source, and over time you.

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Speaker 3: Want to evolve.

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Speaker 4: So for me, it was really important with my first book,

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Speaker 4: Fashion Killer, that I did something that an important story

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Speaker 4: about hip hop and fashion, that chronicles hip hop in

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Speaker 4: a way that I think, you know, gives it that

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Speaker 4: prestige element which I think is so missing sometimes in journalism.

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Speaker 2: Well, Fashion Killer, and look, I was giving you some

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Speaker 2: of this Emerson and Prince whiskey to try, yes, and.

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Speaker 4: That I drink about twice a year, but I said,

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Speaker 4: you know what, three times now.

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Speaker 3: Now it's three times cheers, cheer.

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Speaker 2: This is aset Racky's whiskey and only makes sense because

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Speaker 2: obviously Fashion Killer is an aset Raky song.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 4: It is the famous song where I think he named

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Speaker 4: checks about like twenty six different labels. And at the

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Speaker 4: time it was so funny because although aceps from Harlem,

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Speaker 4: he dressed like he's from Soho, he sounded like he

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Speaker 4: was from Houston. So he really represented this kind of

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Speaker 4: like pan regional artist and I think that is also

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Speaker 4: the story of hip hop and fashion. Of course, it's

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Speaker 4: a New York story, but there's elements of Atlanta in

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Speaker 4: LA and Miami, but also Paris.

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Speaker 3: When we're talking.

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Speaker 4: About like oh, Catoure, it should, of course I go

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Speaker 4: through the whole, like Coco Chanel story, the car Lagerfell story,

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Speaker 4: we're talking about street Where, the Japanese story. And to me,

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Speaker 4: it was just showing hip hop has this global impact

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Speaker 4: and even though I don't think it always gets the

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Speaker 4: respect that it deserves Like this is why books like

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Speaker 4: this I think are important to show people maybe who

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Speaker 4: don't understand the music or the culture, what the contribution is.

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Speaker 5: And that's what I was gonna ask you, why do

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Speaker 5: you feel like this book is needed now? But I

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Speaker 5: feel like you kind of explained to just.

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Speaker 3: Now, Well, you know what's so crazy?

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Speaker 4: So you know backwards a few years ago. This was

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Speaker 4: started as an article for double XL. So a lot

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Speaker 4: of times books start out as articles, say journalists, right,

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Speaker 4: so shout outs to anyone out there, who's who's writing

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Speaker 4: on the music front.

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Speaker 1: Like Eliah S.

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Speaker 3: King.

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Speaker 2: I remember she was writing an article. Well I'll talk

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Speaker 2: about that at to but go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.

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Speaker 4: And you know, it was crazy to me that no

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Speaker 4: one had written a book about hip hop and fashion.

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Speaker 4: There had been a few memoirs, obviously Dapper Dan's book,

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Speaker 4: which is amazing.

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Speaker 3: There were some you know.

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Speaker 5: Coffee table books of coffee table looks.

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Speaker 3: People people love pictures. It looks really nice.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, Fashion Killer does have forty photos photos.

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Speaker 4: I got some exclusive photoshots.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I got some really exclusive I mean.

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Speaker 1: Oh, look at this, dapprit Dan.

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Speaker 2: I think you know just and you you also talk

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Speaker 2: about Tyson Beckford and the impact that he had when

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Speaker 2: he was the polo Ralph Lauren model.

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Speaker 4: And people often forget he was discovered in the pages

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Speaker 4: of the Source.

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Speaker 3: Oh I didn't.

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Speaker 5: I didn't realize that.

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Speaker 3: When you read my book, you will you will know all.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I think it's one of those things

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Speaker 4: where even for myself, I felt like I knew everything.

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Speaker 4: But as I was doing the research, even I learned

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Speaker 4: things like whoa Tyson was discovered by the source, like

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Speaker 4: he's a truly hip hop model.

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Speaker 2: He said he used to have a gun in his

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Speaker 2: backpack at all times, and they used to call him

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Speaker 2: by two guns.

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Speaker 3: I believe so, yeah, he I believe so.

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Speaker 4: I believe so allegedly, and he used to run with

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Speaker 4: you know, like the Low Lives, so that if anyone

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Speaker 4: from New York remembers the Low Lives who used to

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Speaker 4: boost basically Ralph Lauren. But there was you know, so

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Speaker 4: many like different stories from you know, Tupac walking the

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Speaker 4: Versace Show right before he passed away, Biggie being the

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Speaker 4: first rapper to wear Babe. I'm sorry, Soldier Boy, it

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Speaker 4: was not you. I'm sorry, Little Way and it was

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Speaker 4: not you. It's between Biggie and the Beastie Boys. And

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Speaker 4: after all my research, I'm gonna give it to Biggie

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Speaker 4: because he there's a great story and I actually have

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Speaker 4: the picture in the book. Right before he passed, he

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Speaker 4: had done a photo shoot and the photographer Sean Mortensen

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Speaker 4: was like, Hey, I know this guy Nigo, and he

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Speaker 4: has a brand called Babe.

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Speaker 3: Can you put on this hoodie?

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Speaker 4: It was too small for Biggie, so he draped it

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Speaker 4: over him almost like a cape, so it looks like

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Speaker 4: he's wearing it almost like a blazer. Sean takes the

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Speaker 4: picture and sends it to Nego and apparently Biggie was

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Speaker 4: so excited he wanted to get Bape in his sizes

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Speaker 4: because they just didn't make it in the big size,

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Speaker 4: But sadly he passed.

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Speaker 3: Away before that happened.

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Speaker 4: So so many of these iconic artists that we know

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Speaker 4: them for one thing, we don't realize they were so

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Speaker 4: instrumental in the world of fashion.

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Speaker 2: And I remember you also in the book talked about

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Speaker 2: how when the Roots did the song what they Do, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was personally offended because that song What they Do

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Speaker 2: was all about how people in the industry really front

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Speaker 2: and were certain things and super commercialism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I interviewed Questlove and he talked about that. At that time.

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Speaker 4: You got to remember the backpackers were on one side

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Speaker 4: and then sort of like the blank Ghetto fabulous era

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Speaker 4: rappers were on another side, and there was a lot

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Speaker 4: of you know, back and forth. That's a great video.

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Speaker 4: It's one of my favorite videos. The Roots What they Do,

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Speaker 4: but talking to somebody like a Questlove or a pharaohmonche

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Speaker 4: getting their perspective because they were seeing, Okay, you don't

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Speaker 4: got to worry about fashion because no one's looking at you.

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Speaker 3: But many of them wanted to dress nice.

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Speaker 4: Some of them did try to get stylists or they

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Speaker 4: wanted to look nice. So there's a lot of just

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Speaker 4: great history, great stories, and it's like a good fifty

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Speaker 4: year retrospective from nineteen seventy three to twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 4: So if you know absolutely nothing about hip hop and fashion,

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Speaker 4: you will read it and become like a professor level.

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Speaker 4: I guarantee it's PhD level. And if you know a

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Speaker 4: little bit, I think you're just gonna get so much

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Speaker 4: more from these colorful stories, these vibrant moments. You know,

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Speaker 4: even something like the Tommy Hill figure rumor back in

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Speaker 4: the nineties.

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Speaker 3: Remember that, I remember what day?

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Speaker 5: What was the rumor?

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Speaker 4: So I remembered this day. It's so clear, and I

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Speaker 4: write about it in the book. I was in middle school.

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Speaker 4: My best friend at the time was a huge Tommy

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Speaker 4: Hill figure person, and she pulls me the side. Mind you,

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Speaker 4: we're in middle school, we're kids.

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Speaker 5: I couldn't afford Tommy Hill figure when I was younger.

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Speaker 4: Me either, So I about that too, I do. I

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Speaker 4: did get a bootleg Tommy Hill figure. His name was misspelled,

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Speaker 4: but it was written in cursive so you couldn't tell.

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Speaker 3: It was like extra letters.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I couldn't afford any of this stuff either, But

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Speaker 4: you know, the rumor was that Tommy had gone on

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Speaker 4: Oprah and essentially said things that were InCred blue, racist

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Speaker 4: and problematic, how he didn't want black people down here everybody.

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Speaker 1: They kind it kind of ruined the brand.

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Speaker 4: It one thousand percent of fact of the brand. So

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Speaker 4: I interviewed Tommy Hill figure, his brother Andy Hill figure.

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Speaker 3: That rumor was alive. It was complete fake news.

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Speaker 4: They did a whole investigation about it, and they traced

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Speaker 4: it back to a college campus. I think it was

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Speaker 4: just some kid making up a rumor. Remember these are

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Speaker 4: the early days of the internet message boards. I mean

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Speaker 4: there's still no fact checking, you know, thirty years later,

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Speaker 4: but there.

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Speaker 3: Was even less fact checking.

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Speaker 2: But he couldn't go on social media and be like

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Speaker 2: I never said that, truly, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And what's crazy.

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Speaker 4: He ended up doing Oprah Leyears later and they both

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Speaker 4: sat there and Oprah's like, this never happened.

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Speaker 3: To this day, as I'm doing.

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Speaker 4: Press for this book, it bugs people out, like, oh wait,

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Speaker 4: I gave up all my Tommy Hill figure for no reason.

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Speaker 3: But I'd be wearing that now. Yeah, go bring it

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Speaker 3: back from the archives.

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Speaker 2: I wonder why at that time he wasn't vocal, like

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Speaker 2: more vocal in saying that that wasn't true and.

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Speaker 5: Did he maybe he wasn't away until later like they

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Speaker 5: were aware, and in fact there were news articles and

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Speaker 5: like legitimate newspapers that did discredit it.

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Speaker 2: So but I feel like he should have been really

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Speaker 2: loud about how that wasn't because you remember Aliyah, and you

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Speaker 2: talk about Aliyah and he loved and Aliyah was the

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Speaker 2: kind of face of Tommy Hill Figure at the time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, I think, and I don't know

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Speaker 4: what they're sort of pr strategy. Remember this is the

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Speaker 4: nineties for all we know. Maybe a publicist said, look,

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Speaker 4: if you bring more attention to it, it's just the

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Speaker 4: rumors never gonna die. The optics aren't great, just focus

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Speaker 4: on design and clothes. Now fast forward all his years later,

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Speaker 4: Tommy Hill Figure is still very successful. I would argue

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Speaker 4: it's one of the most successful American heritage brands.

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Speaker 3: That we have.

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Speaker 4: It's like Ralph Laura and Tommy Hill Figure, Calvin Klein DBF,

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Speaker 4: there's a handful of them. But we just reminds us

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Speaker 4: of when the brand is a namesake brand, as the designer,

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Speaker 4: your reputation matters. It isn't like a Nike or Adidas,

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Speaker 4: where most of us don't know the face of who's

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Speaker 4: behind that if it's like a ship now the Jasmine brand.

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Speaker 4: So there's there's a fake, you know, rumor about you,

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Speaker 4: and now you have so many opportunities to have your

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Speaker 4: social media platform. There's so many more media platforms. But

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Speaker 4: I agree with you. I'm actually surprised that Tommy didn't

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Speaker 4: go more in the offensive, but maybe he was advised

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Speaker 4: not to.

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Speaker 5: And asoday, though when I found out it wasn't true,

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Speaker 5: I always thought until just now you guys talked about it,

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Speaker 5: I thought it was true.

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Speaker 4: And tomorrow Ja's going to be wearing red, white and blue.

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Speaker 1: Right, and rach Hill isn't that his son?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so he was trying to be a rapper. Funny enough,

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Speaker 4: I think about the time Angela, you and I met

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Speaker 4: during the blog era. I remember that he was, you know,

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Speaker 4: sort of circulating. Yeah, I don't think how much.

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Speaker 2: Well listen, and so I appreciate you for clearing that

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Speaker 2: up for Jazmine. Remember Timberland had a similar issue too, Yeah, yeah, Timberland.

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Speaker 3: Timberland did as I talk about.

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Speaker 4: So the work Boot Company, when hip hop was really

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Speaker 4: gravitating towards it, some of the leadership at the time

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Speaker 4: did sort of ment my hip hop almost like yeah,

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Speaker 4: you can wear our stuff, we kind of don't want

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Speaker 4: you to, right, So that really happened, yes, But but

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Speaker 4: concurrently they would also do like ad buys in the source,

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Speaker 4: so with a little bit of time, money, but you

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Speaker 4: don't want us to, which I think is still a

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Speaker 4: problem to this day. I mean, you look at someone

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Speaker 4: like a dapper dance. So much of his comeback was

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Speaker 4: because of what happened with Gucci and one of his

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Speaker 4: designs essentially being copied and pasted on the runway what

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Speaker 4: he had created for Olympian Diane Dixon, and it was

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Speaker 4: only because of social media.

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Speaker 2: So everybody was like you saw that design, yeah, directly

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Speaker 2: from Dapa down and you know, interestingly enough, Treval and

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Speaker 2: Dow he did the Gucci ghost line, and the reason

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Speaker 2: he got that was because he was doing like these

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Speaker 2: kind of bootleg Gucci and he thought they were going

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Speaker 2: to be mad, like don't do that, but instead they

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Speaker 2: were like, let's do a line around this.

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Speaker 4: And it's hard, right because I understand for a brand

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Speaker 4: as well, you want to protect your brand. You don't

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Speaker 4: want other people taking your logo, taking your designs and

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Speaker 4: making money the off it, and especially if it's not regulated.

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Speaker 4: You don't know about quality control, customer service, all of

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Speaker 4: those things. But I do think Dapper Dan specifically, who

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Speaker 4: was known for these like knockoffs, and what ended up

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Speaker 4: happening was, you know, back in the day Fendy. He

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Speaker 4: had multiple raids by luxury lines and Fendy was kind

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Speaker 4: of the final nail in the coffin. Funny enough, the

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Speaker 4: lawyer for Fendy was Sonya Sotomayor, who's out a Supreme Court.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and she, according to Dapper Dance, she actually

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Speaker 4: complimented his knockoffs in the process of taking him down.

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Speaker 5: I remember, and he talks about it in his book, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: He does, which is a great book by the way.

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Speaker 4: But again it just shows how for so long hip

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Speaker 4: hop was the outsider. Then it was Seymour as a

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Speaker 4: consumer like, yeah, we'll let you buy, but you got

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Speaker 4: to buy off the rack. So even the story I

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Speaker 4: talk about Rockaware, the inception of jay Z and Dame

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Speaker 4: Dash's fashion line, they wanted to get and I interviewed

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Speaker 4: Dame for this. They wanted to get a deal with Iceberg.

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Speaker 4: So if anyone remembers the nineties, Iceberg.

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Speaker 1: Was it like they brought it back too.

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Speaker 4: They did bring it back and it was a line

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Speaker 4: that I would says analogous to like you know Gucci

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Speaker 4: or Louis Vatan and hip hop back then, back then,

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Speaker 4: Calm down, and I mean she's working on her time warsrope,

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Speaker 4: So that's stuff going on on the side.

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Speaker 3: Rod. Yeah, she's trying to catch up from the nineties.

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Speaker 4: Yes, she will be wearing clothes from the nineties tomorrow

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Speaker 4: and she now she now knows she can. But you know,

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Speaker 4: according to Dame, him and Jay like, you know, we're

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Speaker 4: talking to Iceberg like, hey, Ge has name dropped you

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Speaker 4: in all these records. Can we do something together? And

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Speaker 4: according to Damon, they said, yeah, you can go to

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Speaker 4: the sample sale and go buy some stuff. And you know, Dame,

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Speaker 4: all he needs is that battery in his back. Okay,

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Speaker 4: bet So you don't want to work with us, We're

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Speaker 4: not only going to start a line, it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: More successful than yours.

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Speaker 4: And with Rock Aware, they were so brilliant because they

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Speaker 4: had almost like vertical integration. We make the clothes that

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Speaker 4: were gonna put it on the wrappers and if ve

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Speaker 4: music videos became just like four minute commercials for the line.

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Speaker 4: They're gonna wear it on their album cover. Again, that's

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Speaker 4: just free advertising. They're gonna wear in the movies that

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Speaker 4: we make. Like they were hitting so many cultural touch

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Speaker 4: points and made rock aware more relevant than Iceberg. Right,

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Speaker 4: But a lot of those things came from rejection, and

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Speaker 4: it's crazy to think about, Like imagine turning down jay

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Speaker 4: Z and we're talking.

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Speaker 5: This is hilarious Volume one.

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Speaker 1: That's very arrogant of them, but.

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Speaker 4: It's also very common in the music business. Like people

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Speaker 4: forget j Z couldn't get a record deal. That's why

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Speaker 4: they started Rockefeller.

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Speaker 3: And now looking back, so many people will take credit

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Speaker 3: for it. But what is that saying? Like success has.

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Speaker 4: Many fathers, but like failure is an orphan, Like no

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Speaker 4: one wants to claim the failure. And you see that

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Speaker 4: time and again, whether it be in hip hop or

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Speaker 4: in fashion.

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Speaker 2: I remember when Rockefeller was first kicking off and the

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Speaker 2: song Dead Presidents Too, Yeah, that was actually on the

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Speaker 2: Battle of the Beats Andy Martinez.

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Speaker 1: Wow members.

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Speaker 2: She used to do that on High ninety seven and

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Speaker 2: it would win, like and then it would retire if

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Speaker 2: you won the whole Yeah, And so that really kind

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Speaker 2: of like kicked things off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like in New York.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's that's thing.

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Speaker 4: So many of these like icons now really had to

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Speaker 4: struggle for either acceptance or for somebody to believe in them,

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Speaker 4: to invest in them. And I think it still does

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Speaker 4: happen in creative fields because most people aren't inherently risk takers.

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Speaker 2: And you know what else I was going to say,

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Speaker 2: aside from fashion, another business that they had Damon had

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Speaker 2: had a venture into at that time was Vaka.

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Speaker 1: Remember he had the Armadale.

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Speaker 2: That's a whole different field, especially back then.

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Speaker 4: And I believe Armadale if I'm right, Armadale. So also

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Speaker 4: quick other story, I'm currently working on the Rockefeller book I.

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Speaker 3: Was about to bring.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So you know with Armadale, I believe that

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Speaker 4: was named after like a Scottish castle, and that was

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Speaker 4: more like Biggs's sort of like baby.

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Speaker 1: Was the vodka.

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Speaker 4: But that was something about Rockefeller, like they wanted all

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Speaker 4: aspects of lifestyle. Because if we're influencing people, people want

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Speaker 4: to look like us, talk like us, party like us.

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Speaker 3: Why aren't we making money?

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Speaker 4: And I think that goes back to the founding of

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Speaker 4: the label, essentially being like hustlers and strang guys, and

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Speaker 4: the way that your mind is wired is just very different.

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Speaker 5: It seems very parallel to puffy to puff. Well he

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Speaker 5: was trying to do yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean but you know what, even let's flash back

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Speaker 2: before that Wo Say Wear Yeah, and remember they had

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Speaker 2: to do it so and this was a funny story.

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Speaker 1: But I remember when they did that Wu Wear song.

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Speaker 2: Remember Rizid did the Wuo Wear song and that was

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Speaker 2: for a soundtrack and they gave him money to do

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Speaker 2: a song and he basically did a Wo Wear ad.

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Speaker 3: I love it. It's and Fubu during the gap ad

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Speaker 3: he's shouting out crazy yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I talk about that as well, where you know,

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Speaker 4: even sometimes it's using sort of kind of this uh

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Speaker 4: you know, back dooring into the situation where okay, like

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Speaker 4: Fubu is not going to get the national ad campaign,

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Speaker 4: so let's kind of do a workaround. So there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of that, even someone like a Carl Kanat, so

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Speaker 4: Carl Kanai, April Walker, cross Color, some of like the

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Speaker 4: original successful hip hop lines. So I interviewed Carl, he

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Speaker 4: gave a great story when he wanted Tupac to be

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Speaker 4: the face of Carl Kanai and you know, he said

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Speaker 4: he went to like I think it was like the

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Speaker 4: SLS Hotel in Beverly Hills. He said Pac was on

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Speaker 4: his laptop typing away something. It wasn't laptop, it was

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Speaker 4: a computer. Yeah, I mean, I mean Tupac was from

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Speaker 4: the future.

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Speaker 5: He's also kind of live still, people say allegedly.

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Speaker 4: Allegedly, so he's working on a movie script. Who knows

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Speaker 4: what that script was. And Carl essentially asked Pac like, hey,

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Speaker 4: would you, you know, be the face of my line.

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Speaker 4: Pok's like yeah, of course. So Carl's getting really nervous,

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Speaker 4: like how much are you are you going to charge me?

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Speaker 4: And according to him, Pok's like, nothing, I don't charge

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Speaker 4: my peopil anything.

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Speaker 1: Gotta love it.

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Speaker 4: And then Pok became the face as well as creative

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Speaker 4: design that iconic Carl with him sitting on the basketball rim,

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Speaker 4: it's very kind of above the rim.

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Speaker 1: She's in the book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, I had on a car Kanai T shirt hoodie,

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Speaker 2: longsleeve T shirt hoodie in my license picture back then

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Speaker 2: when I got I had any I'll never forget that.

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Speaker 3: It was huge.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a large and I was like

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Speaker 1: eighty pounds.

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Speaker 3: Oh that was perfect.

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Speaker 4: That was A great part about that era didn't matter

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Speaker 4: if you ate carbs that day, everyone just looked because

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Speaker 4: everything And you talk.

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Speaker 2: About that in books when it comes to women in fashion, right,

402
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 2: how there was a time when the baggy.

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Speaker 1: Clothes MC light, you know, that's what we wore.

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Speaker 2: But then, uh, there was a bit of a pushback

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Speaker 2: on that when we saw Little Kim and Foxy Brown

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Speaker 2: and everybody else come out after that.

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Speaker 5: Yet they start they showed their body more, things were

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Speaker 5: more fitted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So it's interesting because I think at the beginning, for

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Speaker 4: so many women in hip hop, and in some ways

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Speaker 4: it still exists, they want to be respected by the

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Speaker 4: guys and as women. It's like, focus on my rhymes,

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Speaker 4: focus on me as an artist, not sort of sexualizing me.

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Speaker 4: And that's what you saw, whether it was EMC Light,

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Speaker 4: I would even say Queen Latifa to a certain extent,

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Speaker 4: but it started getting sex year.

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Speaker 3: I would say, like a Salt and Peppa.

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Speaker 4: Right, they were very body like the body suit, you know,

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Speaker 4: like push it like they were.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's really not a lot of subtlety. Well

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Speaker 3: still it still is very.

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Speaker 4: Sexual, but I think when you get to sort of

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Speaker 4: the Little Kim Foxy era, all of a sudden, women

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Speaker 4: were saying that we are sexual beings. We want to

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Speaker 4: have sex the same way men do. We're going to

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Speaker 4: rap about it, talk about it, live this lifestyle, and

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Speaker 4: fast forward all these years later. I think you see

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Speaker 4: that in hip hop even now, and I think a

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Speaker 4: lot of women do feel pressure to look a certain way.

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Speaker 4: They want to dress in a way that sort of

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Speaker 4: satisfies what a man's going to find attractive. And my

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Speaker 4: thing is like, be yourself. If that's you and that

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Speaker 4: makes you feel confident and outgoing, that's awesome. But I

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Speaker 4: think so many artists you see nowadays it's almost like

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Speaker 4: wearing a mask or wearing a costume, like, I don't

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00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 4: think that's you.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because we were talking about this earlier,

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00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 2: right with Scarlet Yeah, and then you know, she did

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Speaker 2: this song in the video and she's like and we're

441
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 2: not used to seeing her like that, and people were like,

442
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 2: the label wants.

443
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:01,359
Speaker 4: You to do that.

444
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 2: She's like, no, I wanted to do that, and I

445
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 2: wanted to And then Glorilla just recently posted herself right

446
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 2: with her shirt off and right, and then like, when

447
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 2: is the label making you do that?

448
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 3: She wants to show off.

449
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,880
Speaker 5: That's essentially what she said. But I want to ask

450
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 5: you who are some of the up and coming artists

451
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,359
Speaker 5: that you think are going to be on the verge of,

452
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 5: you know, fashion that we should kind of be checking

453
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 5: for that are not people that.

454
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,879
Speaker 4: We know like real I think what's hard now is

455
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,159
Speaker 4: a lot of what used to make fashion I think

456
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 4: so exciting was there were regional differences, so people had

457
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,639
Speaker 4: their own signature.

458
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 3: Because you know, I grew up in the Midwest. I

459
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 3: didn't know what people were wearing.

460
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 1: A New York can talk about where Kalamazoo.

461
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 4: If you are a Yankees fan, Darren Jeter, we went

462
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 4: to the same high school many years apart, many years apart.

463
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:54,440
Speaker 1: The Calamazoo story.

464
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 4: When we're yes and we're about an owl from Grand Rapids,

465
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 4: we're demarges from how.

466
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 5: Far are you from the That's right, like two and

467
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,920
Speaker 5: a half out of all two if you're dry fast,

468
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 5: out of all of Michigan. You think Detroit has the

469
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 5: best fashion if you like gators, if you like very flashy.

470
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, my one pet jacket to bush Man from Detroit.

471
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 1: He gave me a Lion's pell giant.

472
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 3: For me growing up on New York hip hop.

473
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 4: I was just obsessed with the way guys from New

474
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,360
Speaker 4: York dress, like to me, guys from Harlem are still

475
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 4: like the hut.

476
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 5: Well, I was gonna say, I read that you say

477
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 5: that Harlem people, people from Harlem are the best dress

478
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 5: in New York.

479
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was interview Magazine interviewed me and they were like, which,

480
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 4: you know, who are the best dressed people? I just

481
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 4: have like a soft spot, like in my heart. I

482
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 4: always tell this to people. I can only date you

483
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 4: if you were at the tunnel in ninety.

484
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 3: Eight, And that is such a loaded statement. Well, so whoever.

485
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 2: Did that big story on the tunnel. I was with

486
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 2: her while she was going to the tunnel and hopefully interviews.

487
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 2: We were actually got to be in the booth during

488
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 2: all that time, so we were good in the booth,

489
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 2: and the booth is elevated so you could watch and

490
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,199
Speaker 2: I saw so many many things while I was up

491
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 2: in that booth looking down and seeing what people were doing.

492
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: I was like, this is wild.

493
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 4: But as a kid growing up, like to me, that

494
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,360
Speaker 4: was just iconic, Like I wish I were ten years

495
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 4: older so I could just go, you know and shout.

496
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 2: Into Jessica Rosenbloom because Tres Just Entertainment was she used

497
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 2: to love me, and so they put me on the list.

498
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 2: Every I never had to wait online, and I was

499
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 2: in college and I could like go in the back

500
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: door and go in, not wait online, and everybody there.

501
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 2: And I run into people to this day, like security

502
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 2: who used to work at the tunnel, Like I remember

503
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 2: you from the tunnel because I really used to be

504
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: there every single week, Amado sur oh boy, but I

505
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: mean iconic nice there like method Man and Redman.

506
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: I think that that night DMX.

507
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 2: DMX Yeah in the tunnel, you know, there were so

508
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 2: many Master Flux. Every single artist inside for Sounds would

509
00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 2: be there too, you know.

510
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 1: And the Street Team. That's when street teams are really big.

511
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 4: I started my career as a unpaid internet bad boy

512
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 4: in street team promotions.

513
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, since you brought a bad boy. I know,

514
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,479
Speaker 2: Daddy want to bring this up because you put out

515
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 2: a tweet and people were.

516
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 3: I'm always tweeting and people are yelling at me. I

517
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 3: love it.

518
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 5: You mentioned that you worked there before and you had

519
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 5: never when when Puffy was married I'm not married, was

520
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 5: dating cast that you had never saw anything?

521
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 1: You know, alarming, and people were upset. They were like,

522
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: why was he even write this at all?

523
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 4: Because I think and again, the problem with social media

524
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 4: is there's zero nuance, and it's whatever you put out

525
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 4: there and how it's opened interpretation.

526
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 3: And for me and I did a follow up tweet

527
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 3: to explain that.

528
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 5: We didn't say that one. We didn't see follow Yeah, no, no,

529
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 5: nobody ever.

530
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: I just want to explain it.

531
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 4: But the reason I said that is because I'll be honest,

532
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 4: I've had a lot of conversations behind the scenes with

533
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 4: people in the industry, very powerful people when the allegations

534
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 4: against Puff first happened. And this isn't just Puffy, it's

535
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 4: even other people, whether it's R. Kelly, you know, a

536
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 4: variety people, Russell Simmons Oftentimes, especially you know, men in

537
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 4: the industry, will say, well, I never saw it, and

538
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 4: because I didn't see it, it didn't happen. Even when

539
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 4: I speak to some women, that's the mentality, Well, I

540
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 4: knew that person and they were nice to me, so

541
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 4: there's no way they can be a monster. And the

542
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 4: reason I said that, and I said it in the tweet,

543
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 4: just because I didn't see it. We still must listen

544
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 4: to alleged victims. It's not about your personal experience, and

545
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 4: we can't view especially serious allegations through just what you

546
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: experience because people have multiple sides, and how somebody acts

547
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 4: at work, let's say, in a board meeting, is very

548
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 4: different how they act with the romantic partner. Now sometimes

549
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 4: that is consistent, where they're just a terrible person all around,

550
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 4: but usually people have different masks.

551
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 3: And I do think one reason.

552
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 4: That we haven't seen a me too reckoning and hip hop,

553
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 4: there's a lot of reasons. I don't think the show

554
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 4: is long enough to go into the whole dissertation. So

555
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 4: many people their first response is, well, I didn't see it.

556
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 4: I didn't experience it, so yeah, maybe she yeah, maybe,

557
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 4: or maybe she's looking for money.

558
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 2: That's the first thing that people think too. Yeah, they

559
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: think because I will say and I always say this

560
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: to people. I know, people who have been awful to me,

561
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 2: they've been great to other people.

562
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 4: And vice versa. I know, yeah, though I've had amazing experiences.

563
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 4: I might even speak to another journalist. The way that

564
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 4: person treats a male journalist is different than a female journalist.

565
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 4: You know, where were they kind of on the pecking

566
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 4: order at what time in their career did you see them?

567
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 4: So I think that's so important. It doesn't just matter

568
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 4: your personal experience with an individual. You have to still

569
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 4: let alleged victims tell their story.

570
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: How do you handle that when somebody was let's say,

571
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: somebody was great to you, but they've been awful to

572
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 2: other people?

573
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: Yeah?

574
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: Right?

575
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 2: How do you then treat that person? Is it just

576
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 2: based off of how they treated you? Or is it

577
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 2: like I can't really be around that anymore because I

578
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: know what they're capable of.

579
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's very difficult

580
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 4: if there's actual allegations or there is something where it's

581
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 4: publicly been discussed. I think that's one thing versus behind

582
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 4: closed doors because and I'm not I'm sure you've experienced

583
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 4: this as well. I've spoken to women who say so

584
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 4: and so did this to me, or so and so

585
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 4: made me uncomfortable, but I'm not ready.

586
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 3: To come forward, right, And that's definitely and for us.

587
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 4: I don't think that's my place then to tell their

588
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 4: story because that's you know, as a as a victim,

589
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 4: you have the right to enunciate that as much or

590
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 4: as little as you want. Because I don't know where

591
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 4: you are and your healing journey. But I do think

592
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 4: that you know, we all kind of know behind the scenes,

593
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 4: who's sort of a nightmare to work with, who's unethical,

594
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 4: who might be a creepazoid. So personally, I mean, and

595
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 4: I'm very kind of lucky in this place in my career.

596
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 4: I just try to like distance myself as much as possible.

597
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: But Simmons with saying how people get so mad every

598
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 2: time somebody comes to visit him and Bali and every

599
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: time he does post, you know that somebody's there with him.

600
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 4: Whatever has happened, always in very strange positions, but you

601
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 4: you know, But it's also tricky to write what is

602
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 4: the line between an allegation versus a conviction?

603
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 3: How do you deal with gossip?

604
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 4: Because an allegation is one thing, But do we then

605
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: have to be sort of the jury trial jury executioner,

606
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 4: Like there has to be a conviction.

607
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: But I don't know, even if there's not a conviction,

608
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean it didn't happen to And even if

609
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: there's a conviction, that doesn't mean it it's just uh

610
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: gray area.

611
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 5: But it's also when when there's like multiple victims, multiple

612
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 5: alleged victims kind of like, yeah, everyone.

613
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 4: To me, I look at a pattern of behavior, and

614
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 4: but I also, you know, I don't believe in council culture.

615
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 4: I think that's something that's a misnomer and you can't

616
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 4: cancel it. I don't think it really happens anyway, and

617
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 4: it doesn't happen. I don't accountability just in jazz.

618
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 3: Now he's doing great.

619
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: I actually had on a time he'll figure sweatsuit during

620
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: the lip service tour, but I know he never really

621
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 2: said that.

622
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 3: See, there you go.

623
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 4: But I think it's also hard because you know, now

624
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 4: there is this expectation, Okay, if everyone feels a certain way,

625
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 4: then there needs to be kind of like a monolith.

626
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: And that's just not how it is.

627
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: And people have to understand how difficult that is. Somya.

628
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: Have you ever had an experience and you don't have

629
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: to name a name that you felt like, is this

630
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: a therapy session? No, I'm just wondering because Chary Lee

631
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: Rapp was up here and she talks about it in

632
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: her book, you know, a situation, but she's still never

633
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: named that person. And you would think, in the position

634
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: that she's in now, at some point you know, you

635
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: feel like, Okay, I'm saving a time, but it's still hard, yeah,

636
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: to be able to do that.

637
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: And I'm just.

638
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: Wondering, like, for you, being in the position that you're in,

639
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: you've interviewed a ton of people. Have you ever had

640
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 2: something that you felt like inappropriate or somebody you just

641
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: don't mess with because it's something they did?

642
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 3: You know what your persons?

643
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,239
Speaker 4: I think as women in hip hop, and I mean,

644
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 4: you know, there's well, Angela, there's not a lot of us.

645
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 4: And the era I started in was the put your

646
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 4: head down and do the work area. No one wants

647
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 4: to see you cry. No one cares.

648
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: Literally, they'd say, if you want to cry, go to

649
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 3: the bathroom.

650
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: Career and I said it radio. They told me, if

651
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: you're too sensitive, don't do this.

652
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's really hard for women because you know,

653
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 4: for me, it was very important. I don't want to

654
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 4: just cover female artists because sometimes they'll do that to women. Okay,

655
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 4: you talk to the female rappers, or you cover R

656
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: and B because that's like girl music. But no, I

657
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 4: grew up listening to Nas and Big and Mob Deep

658
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: and Premiere and those were the people I wanted to interview.

659
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 4: But That also meant that sometimes you had to, you know,

660
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 4: have this kind of shield around you, be very cognizant

661
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 4: how you move, Like it's funny even you know, we're

662
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 4: having a drink here. For probably the first like ten

663
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 4: twelve years of my career, when I was offered like

664
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 4: alcohol or you know, other treats, I would always say

665
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: no because I wanted them to know no, No, I'm

666
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 4: about my business right or of an artist is like, hey,

667
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 4: what are you doing afterwards? Oh, I'm going home to

668
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 4: transcribe this interview, Like I don't want to hang out.

669
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 4: I don't want you to think we're dating. I don't

670
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 4: want your number.

671
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: But that's so unfair because men can hang out, and

672
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: it's like if you do, you're like, okay, yeah, let's

673
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 2: go eat.

674
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm not trying to let's go hang out.

675
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: But sometimes that that's where the deals are made.

676
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 4: Deals are made, so to the strip club, they're made

677
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 4: after hours, they're made.

678
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: At the golf court or even in the studio. And

679
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 3: it's funny you say that.

680
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 4: I was talking to executive not too long ago, very

681
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 4: high level male executive at a major label, and I

682
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: was trying to explain to him that the studio is

683
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 4: not a welcoming place for women. And I know as

684
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 4: someone who's been in the studio, I'm usually there to

685
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 4: interview an artist or observe the minute you go in.

686
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: As a woman.

687
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 4: It's different now because you know, obviously we're grown. But

688
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 4: when you're first starting out, the first assumption is, well,

689
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 4: who are you sleeping with here? Because there's no reason

690
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 4: you should be here now. Mind you, this person could

691
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 4: be a journalist, an executive, an engineer, producer. The first is, oh, well,

692
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 4: who are you here with? And if you're like nobody, great,

693
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 4: then they're going to hit on you.

694
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 3: And that's just what it is.

695
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 4: And it's funny because I was telling this executive he

696
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: was truly shocked. He's liked, well, I don't understand, why

697
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 4: don't women just show up? I said, no, No, the

698
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 4: sessions at four am it's all men drinking, smoking, exactly,

699
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 4: and I think for women, and it's really really tough.

700
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 4: Of course, like all women, I've had those experiences, whether

701
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 4: it's like sexual harassment, you know, being so called blackballed

702
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 4: if you don't go out with somebody. And this isn't

703
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 4: just artists. I've had editors like people on assuming the

704
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 4: minute you don't want to date them. All those all

705
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 4: those opportunities.

706
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: Are gone, right, and you know you definitely are early on.

707
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: I remember somebody in the business told me one time,

708
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: just get used to it. It's part of what it

709
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,239
Speaker 2: is as a woman in this business. Guys are going

710
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: to hit on you and things that you just got

711
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 2: to be and in a weird way.

712
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 3: Sometimes they'll say, well, that's a compliment. They think you're

713
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: pretty versus what's the converse like?

714
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 4: And you know, it's it's hard too because even now,

715
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 4: and going back to what you mentioned about Cheryl, you

716
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 4: don't get an award for calling people out.

717
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, no matter.

718
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: I understand how difficult it is. That's why I'm always

719
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: like when people are like, why did they wait? Why

720
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: didn't they say something? If that was me, I would

721
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: have did this, because it is a hard thing to

722
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: actually have to sit down and be like, Okay, if

723
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: I say this, people aren't gonna believe me. And then

724
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: how do I come.

725
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 4: What time was my career? What were you saying, Angela?

726
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 4: Were you sort of implying that maybe you were interested

727
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 4: or actually, you know, I heard the Jasmine dates a

728
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 4: lot of men in the industry, so she's kind of fast, right,

729
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 4: you know, but.

730
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 3: They will they will look at that like they.

731
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: Will go through your personal life every single For the

732
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 4: longest time, I wouldn't even talk to guys in the industry, like, no,

733
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 4: I'm only talking to people who work in like finance

734
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 4: or something, because I don't want any man to think, oh,

735
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 4: you're in this room because.

736
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 3: I brought her here. Oh you're his girlfriend. Yeah, And

737
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: men don't realize.

738
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: Cause that can affect to your career. You can't even

739
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: be in certain places or a network the way that

740
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: a man can.

741
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: I'll never forget.

742
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: This is like when I was first starting out, and

743
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 4: you know, funny enough, even at Bad Boy, and there

744
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 4: was another female intern and I do think she started

745
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 4: dating one of the guys there, and it was somewhat

746
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 4: age appropriate, I guess, because you know, we're all like

747
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 4: over eighteen. Actually I think she was over twenty one,

748
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 4: and he hold everyone yeah, and I think he embellished

749
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 4: the story. It got so bad one day she just

750
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 4: stopped coming to work. And I remember one of my

751
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 4: boss he's still coming, He's he's still coming, and he was,

752
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 4: by the way, like totally enapt. I don't know how

753
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 4: he got a paycheck. He must have known where you know,

754
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: the bodies were buried. But fast forward, I remember my

755
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 4: male boss saying, don't be like one of those girls.

756
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 4: So what does that mean that we can't have a

757
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 4: personal life like you? Almost again, you're either hyper sexualized

758
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 4: as a woman or you have to be like the

759
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: virgin good girl.

760
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 3: You can't just be a huge I don't know.

761
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: What advice you give, because women ask me all the

762
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: time in this business, how do you navigate when guys

763
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: are tinn of days too.

764
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: I told somebody the other day, and I don't know

765
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: if this is great advice or not.

766
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: You know, but I was an arranged marriage. I don't know.

767
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: But and you know, for the longest two when I

768
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: first started, I always said, I did you.

769
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 3: Ever do that?

770
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 4: Like lie about the fakes? That always he lives another country,

771
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 4: You're never going to see him, And there's like I

772
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 4: used to be a fake ring. Sometimes you ever did

773
00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 4: the fake ring?

774
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 2: But I told her, I said, look, all I can

775
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: say is this I get inevitably there are times that

776
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: you haven't attacked into somebody really liked them, just start

777
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: off as friends.

778
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: And I've alway you know somebody really well.

779
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: Before you make a move, and you know, just because

780
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: you don't want to have those regrets. And I get

781
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: that things happen you're single, he's single or whatever, but

782
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: just don't.

783
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: We're around each other all the time, like, no matter what,

784
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 3: you're most likely and that's in an airy yeah, who

785
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 3: they work with, Like that was what the show The

786
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: Office was predicated on.

787
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 4: But I also tell when young women ask me as well,

788
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 4: and I would even say this to young men. Just

789
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 4: be very clear, like how this could affect your career,

790
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 4: because if this is not the love of your life,

791
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 4: you are going to marry them. Just if worst case

792
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: this leads to you being fired, are you okay? Like

793
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 4: is it worth it to kind of risk it all

794
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 4: for this person? And I think when you're first starting

795
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 4: out in any industry, but especially this industry, you have

796
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,239
Speaker 4: to have some stripes on your arm before Like now

797
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 4: it's different. It's the way we can move, we can

798
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 4: date whoever, you know. Although now, when like the young

799
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 4: artists try to hit on me, I was like, no, no,

800
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 4: where's your dad? I don't want to talk to you,

801
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 4: but I'm sure your dad is at the tunnel in

802
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 4: ninety eight. Yeah, but that's from a place of privilege

803
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 4: power because no one can, you know, affect your bag,

804
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 4: no one can affect your reputation. But when you're first

805
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 4: starting out, I think even in twenty twenty four as

806
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 4: a woman, they will find ways to discredit you.

807
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

808
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 4: Oh, we've got to focus on the work and be

809
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 4: so buttoned up there because I've even when I've interviewed artists,

810
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 4: like they'll show me their phones like, yeah, I know her,

811
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 4: Oh no, I don't want to see her naked, Oh my.

812
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 2: God, Like and you know, I do a show called

813
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: lip Service, and obviously that show is all about sex,

814
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: so people feel more free. I don't mind people telling

815
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: me stuff, you know, and I do feel like on

816
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: that show. Even though it's fun, it's intimate, it's not

817
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: like I don't think it's too crazy where you feel

818
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: like and you should never feel like that, like being

819
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: inappropriate with somebody, and.

820
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 4: You should always do at the end of day, it's

821
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 4: still work. Now the blinds do get blurred and we

822
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 4: are having a good time, and I get it. It's music,

823
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 4: it's the entertainment industry. But if someone is like your boss,

824
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 4: then they need to act like a boss, right, Like,

825
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 4: you shouldn't be hitting on your subordinate. You know, if

826
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 4: you're an unpaid intern, no one knows you, you have

827
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 4: no career, so that person now can control your career.

828
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 4: Like does it mean it to you? And maybe that

829
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 4: is the love of your life and you're ready to

830
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 4: risk it all and that's great. Most of the time,

831
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 4: it's not.

832
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 2: I always say, you know, these guys try to talk

833
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: to me, They trying to talk to thirty other people,

834
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: and so don't think is the.

835
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 4: Worse though, when you meet like your childhood crushes and

836
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 4: they're all such a letdown. I didn't read a lot

837
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 4: of the guys who they were on my wall in

838
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 4: the nineties because I used to rip out Word Up

839
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 4: magazine from the library.

840
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: So sorry to the library if I used to rip

841
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 3: it out of the library.

842
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: But we're gonna we'll have to talk about that. Yeah,

843
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: I think the New.

844
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 4: York I think the Statute of Limitations is up. But

845
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 4: meeting some of your heroes and it's like, wow, I

846
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 4: would never date you, and I like that in my

847
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 4: mind you were like this pristine, perfect person and in

848
00:35:58,760 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 4: reality you're terrible.

849
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: Now listen, all right, I want to move on and

850
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: talk about this next book please, because you're you're doing

851
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 2: a book about Rockefeller Yeah. Oh, and so is everybody

852
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: on boord to do this, Like I know you've spoken

853
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: to Damon in this book.

854
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: I mean all the founders know about it and that knows.

855
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so BIG's jay.

856
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 4: Z and Cream nos Jay's team knows, Dame's team knows.

857
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 4: And for me, it's not like I believe in transparency.

858
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 4: It's not like some sort of gotcha moment. But for

859
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 4: me again, after Fashion Killow, which is the first hip

860
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 4: hop fashion anthology, I realize like for my next book,

861
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 4: I want to tell these important hip hop stories and

862
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 4: tell them in a way that's not being told. And

863
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 4: no matter what, a book is forever like a podcast,

864
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 4: interview whatever, like that's you know, ephemeral, but like a

865
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 4: book is forever, and it also gives it a certain credibility.

866
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 3: So in my mind, like Rockefella is like the hip

867
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: hop blue chip company, I want this book to be

868
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 3: taught in like college courses, like what can we learn

869
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: from them? And use a business classes. So that's the

870
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 3: way I'm framing it. So yes, of course it's like

871
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 3: the history the stories, but I want it through that lens,

872
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: not just like gossip or he said.

873
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 4: He said, because at that point it's there's nothing much

874
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 4: there of kind of you know of haft. But right

875
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 4: now I just needed to be in the research. It

876
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 4: was great interroom people like Ski Beats who made Dead

877
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 4: Presidents right or even like the original like original Flava

878
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 4: Future Sound. They were signed to Dame before jay Z

879
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 4: Clark Kent like all of these amazing people.

880
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: Remember they had the twin brothers, Christian Diamonds in the.

881
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 4: Yes, if anyone can find Christian or a mill because

882
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 4: I found I found numbers for them, but they're not responding,

883
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 4: So if anyone out there can find them for me

884
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 4: would be great.

885
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 5: What about that female rapper that was signed?

886
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 3: Yeah?

887
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, what's the time?

888
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 3: All money is legal?

889
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 4: All money major coin, Major Coins, a group that didn't

890
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 4: really exist.

891
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 5: But yeah, what are we thinking that next? I know

892
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 5: we're promoting this, but when do we think in a timeline?

893
00:37:58,920 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 3: You sound like my editor.

894
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 4: Ideally I wanted to drop in twenty twenty six because

895
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 4: it's the thirtieth anniversary.

896
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 3: You're reasonable doubt that makes sense. Yeah, And as you know,

897
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 3: a book writing takes so long.

898
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 5: It feels like.

899
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: Words guys, and you're somebody yourself, because some people don't

900
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: write their books themselves.

901
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, most celebrities have what we call it ghost writer,

902
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: so that's when they pay an actual writer to, you know,

903
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 4: do the writing. So yeah, so when you actually are

904
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 4: writing the book yourself and doing the interviews and doing

905
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 4: the research, it's a marathon.

906
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

907
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, it would you consider after that maybe doing a

908
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 5: West West coast sort of maybe like an ice cube

909
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 5: or like that.

910
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 3: She's like, let me get through. I'm just trying to

911
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 3: get through that.

912
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 5: For that, I do like that.

913
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 4: But I think for me, what's important the literary space

914
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 4: and even in just the other projects I want to

915
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 4: do in the future, whether it's documentaries, film, TV, podcasting,

916
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 4: et cetera. I want to just tell hip hop stories

917
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 4: in an elevated way.

918
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: Can you see Fashion Killer being a documentary on I mean, I.

919
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: Am signed a CIA and there are conversations happening.

920
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: Because I could see that being a documentary.

921
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 5: That would be us have to be I mean, you

922
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 5: know it has to be.

923
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: I love debating about Coco Chanel and that whole story

924
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 2: because you know, I love fashion. You can't tell because

925
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: every day I wear sweats but I like to look

926
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: at things. I like to go into stores and like,

927
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: I'm always trying to see what people are wearing. It's

928
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: interesting to me, you know, And so I would love

929
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: to visually see some of this come to life because

930
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: I learned a lot great just from reading Fashion Killers.

931
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 3: So I learned a lot is.

932
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 4: A great endorsement. Maybe they should put that on the

933
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 4: paper A lot. The paperback drops on September. I'll pull

934
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 4: that back to the promo. I feel like I'm a

935
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 4: rapper promoting a mixtape.

936
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 3: That is really what you are selling.

937
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 4: A book is, and it's funny at my book release

938
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 4: last year, So the hardcover came out in October, but

939
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 4: it's available Amazon, Barnes and Noble independent bookstores, and paperback,

940
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 4: which is a little cheaper and also easier to put

941
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 4: in your bag, comes out on September third. But there

942
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 4: was a time I was literally just selling copies out

943
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 4: of like my Louis Vaiton bag, Like I really felt

944
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 4: like I was jay Z out of the trunk, like guys,

945
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 4: I'm cash money, Yeah, that's what it.

946
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 2: Will definitely purchase that at the trunk at the Louis

947
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: Vaiton bag.

948
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, But I mean, I think too because so many,

949
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 4: you know, very few journalists who come from hip hop

950
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 4: get to write books because the literary world is still

951
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 4: very academic, it's very male, it's very white. So I

952
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 4: think that's another area that I just want to create

953
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 4: those inroads to show people like, no, your voices are

954
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 4: important and we need to have these stories or it's

955
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: going to be the same like rapper memoir, like done to.

956
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: Death, you know right, listen big Daddy Kane.

957
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 4: But yes, I interviewed Kane and I had to ask

958
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 4: him about the famous Madonna photo shoot where Graham and

959
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 4: Naomi Campbell and he started laughing. And first of all,

960
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 4: Caine is still smooth operator all those years later. I'm like,

961
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 4: you know what, I don't need you to go on

962
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 4: lip service. I can already tell what happened.

963
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know what it is.

964
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot going on there.

965
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 2: But I remember because that time he was on Cold,

966
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 2: Chilling right, and Jiz was also on Coach Genius Genius,

967
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: and so they really wanted to fashion him. Really to

968
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 2: think about those outfits. It was like the silky pajamas suits. Yeah,

969
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: he had that song come do Me, and it was

970
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 2: not his style at all had a chance to do me.

971
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 3: So much for subtlety. But yes, women are loose, but yes,

972
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 3: come do me, come do me. Yeah.

973
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 4: And also why video and everything women? What do you

974
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 4: mean come to your house?

975
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: And then do you like? There's so many levels that yeah.

976
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: And then it was it was Prince Racquem Yeah, and

977
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: he had so many ladies.

978
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

979
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 4: And that's the thing too, is even just how fashion

980
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 4: helps certain artists become.

981
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 3: Like these sax symbols. Look at a heavy D, look

982
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 3: at a biggie.

983
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 4: These guys were now like, okay, we put Big and

984
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 4: Versace and now all of a sudden, he's all these women.

985
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 2: And that was fly though, it was very fly, and

986
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: he made it really popular to just you ain't got

987
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: to be the handsomest man, the most fit man. Yeah,

988
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: but women still with flacking to him. Yeah, and that

989
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 2: was the whole perception.

990
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: So he got that.

991
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think again for him again according to Puff,

992
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 4: like because he wore Versace, Biggie now wanted to wear that.

993
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 4: But Big had to always get custom because they weren't

994
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 4: making clothes in his size, so it's always like kind

995
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 4: of stitched together.

996
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 5: And they're not necessarily doing it now either, but also people.

997
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: Like that because it's custom yeah, and one of one.

998
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah always, which goes back to Cain because I

999
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 4: remember Kane telling me he had multiple tailors. He's like, oh,

1000
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 4: you're like nobody, not just dapper Dan, Yeah, multiple tailors,

1001
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 4: because he's like, if I'm on stage, no one in

1002
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 4: the audience should be wearing what I'm.

1003
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: Can you imagine how horrifying?

1004
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 3: Like wait, how want Taylor too?

1005
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's funny because I did a panel a lot

1006
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 4: too long ago and Jim Jones said the same thing

1007
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 4: that this is during the dipset era. He's like, I

1008
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 4: went to a club in New York wearing a jersey.

1009
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 4: If someone else had it, I took my shirt off.

1010
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 4: Whereas now it's almost a compliment. Oh we address like

1011
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 4: you know, going back to your question about who are

1012
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 4: the sort of young fashionistas, it's so hard because everyone's

1013
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 4: on Instagram, everyone's wearing a marry, everyone knows the same

1014
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 4: style list. So I do think people like a factor yeah,

1015
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 4: or fast fashion where we all are wearing the same.

1016
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 5: Which wasn't around when we were younger. Yeah, or not

1017
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 5: in this the same sense, No, and just.

1018
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 3: The idea of trends being so fast.

1019
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 4: So I think it's someone like a Tyler the Creator,

1020
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 4: Like I love his style evolution and now you know

1021
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 4: he's working with LV and things like that. But from

1022
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 4: odd future to where he is now, I just think

1023
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 4: he makes a lot of really interesting choices. But it

1024
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 4: is hard for artists, Like how do you stand out

1025
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 4: in this marketplace where everybody could go to Instagram, everyone

1026
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 4: can travel to the same boutique. Like I remember I

1027
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 4: push a tea for the book and he was like,

1028
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 4: yo when we had to go to Japan to go

1029
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: see Nego to get Babe, Like that was the plug.

1030
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 4: Now everyone just goes online, so you know there's a

1031
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 4: star right here, there's a story, right.

1032
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 2: I remember he had he put music and everything. That's

1033
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: how ingrained he was, you know in the culture.

1034
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think, you know, it's it's hard now,

1035
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 4: But I do think that I would challenge artists, whether

1036
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 4: it's musically or sort of esthetically, you have to do

1037
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 4: something different, likes it has to be you. But I

1038
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 4: just sometimes feel I see artists and it's like you're

1039
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 4: not wearing the clothes.

1040
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 3: The clothes are wearing it.

1041
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, because things like everybody has that Gucci sweatsuit. Everybody

1042
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: has that, you know. That makes it really hard.

1043
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 4: So and it's also a lot of pressure on artists.

1044
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 4: Imagine if you're Wound Tang or you know Nas or

1045
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 4: you know Biggie. In the beginning, you could just dress

1046
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 4: regular because you were a regular person. Now you signed

1047
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 4: a deal off one song, how are you head to toll?

1048
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 4: And Gucci was painingfress And I do think that also

1049
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 4: has a disconnect with fans because sometimes I look at music.

1050
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 4: You already have the Ferrari and you're on a private

1051
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 4: jet and your head to toe Gucci. Who is this

1052
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 4: supposed to be inspiring?

1053
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 3: Right? That's that's me. I'm a bit of a purist,

1054
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 3: as you can tell when it comes to music.

1055
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: Well, but listen, fashion killer is available now. We've been

1056
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: trying to make sure we got this to happen. I

1057
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: am so appreciative and so may. I feel like I

1058
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: haven't seen your face in person and so long. So

1059
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 2: I'm so happy to see Somya Kaka Somya Krishna murthy

1060
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: great good, I did it right, you did it good? Okay,

1061
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: all right?

1062
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: Perfect? Well, thank you so much, and you got to

1063
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: come back up and see us more. Frequently. Anytime fashion

1064
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: killer is out right now, it's way up.