WEBVTT - Ep. 310: An Eight Second Encounter 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:17.680 bug bitten and in my case, underwear. Listening Hunt podcast, 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.360 you can't predict anything presented by First Light, creating proven 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.840 versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:36.000 For every Hunt, First Light, go farther, stay longer. All right, everybody, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:37.800 we've got a great episode for you today. We're joined 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:45.080 right now by Yanni cal Seth Jester, Seth Night here, 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:53.800 Seth Night here. Good in the special guests, Uh, John Miller. Now, 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.120 we're gonna play you a titilating little clip here just 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.920 to get utitilated. I used it twice in one sentence 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.920 to the late tittilating clip to get you titilated. Tittilate 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:10.560 and Phil, we came down this path right here, saw 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:16.280 and two cubs cans rolling across tax I put a 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.680 three in wind meg in the bear's back on top. 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.119 He shoots a pistol round ten. Mill comes to me. 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.840 It starts making this way after what six rounds in 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:34.240 it it does there. That was the voice of our guest, 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.040 John Miller, and engineer who's interesting for two reasons. One 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.920 he's involved in this is just this hunting season. Right, 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.360 it was saved a friend of his who was getting 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.320 mauled by a bear hunting Wyoming. Um, and here's the 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.440 only reason you're interesting your friends with my friend from 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:56.360 growing up, Matt Mallard. Yeah, it's a weird coincidence. He 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:58.480 he he's probably he's in a weird spot when he 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:04.360 gets asked what he does. Why is that? Because I 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.800 hate talking about the brother while he's not here. If 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.119 you're engineering a part and you need to know how 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.440 it's going to hold up over thousands of hours of 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:22.480 use and abuse. He makes equipment didn't mimics abuse like 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:27.320 automotive aerospace makes equipment that mimics the abuse. So you 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.280 can put the part in a room, turn the abuser 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:34.840 machine on and vibrated at certain frequencies, and then watch 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:38.840 what will happen. Right, that's correct. That's actually how we 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.200 know each other. We work in the same industry, vibration technologies. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.000 We're My company is a little more general. But yes, 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:50.160 whose company is better? Oh? Of course mine? Ill I'll 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.359 you know, I always like Matt Mallard a lot growing up. 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:55.000 And um, you know how later in life you look 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:56.919 back on dudes from growing up and you sort of 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.679 have realizations about them that you didn't at the time 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:01.919 used to like a nice guy, I'm telling you, And 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.000 I can't say this about myself, and I can't say 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:09.119 to what most people if I review, I don't think 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:15.880 that that man ever uttered a negative word about anybody. 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.440 And to say that coming out of junior high and 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:26.919 high school, that's impressive. Just an honorable guy, certainly. UM 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.639 he's the one who introduced us, right he is. Shout out, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:31.400 ma'am Millard. If you want to find out what some 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.160 of your ship's gonna do and it vibrates real bad, 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:39.280 call Matt. He'll build a machine for you. Do you 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.160 want to say what company you work for to plug it? D? 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:45.200 Why not? What is it? Did you go to the 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.680 same school mat went to? I did not, So did 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.800 you study engineering? I studied in South Dakota State my 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.640 undergrad and then UH. I got my graduate degree in 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.200 University of Minnesota UM. But the company I worked for 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.880 is UH do we soft so we make test equipment 0:03:59.920 --> 0:04:02.920 for all sorts of UM R and D, specifically in 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:08.800 the automotive, airspace and UH defense, power and energy type markets. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:10.600 Did you when you went to graduate school as you 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.840 get a master's degree or a PhD. I got a 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.320 master's degree. Yeah. Usually if you get the PhD, you 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:17.599 kind of end up there forever and him to be 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.800 calling you Dr Miller right now. Okay, before we get 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:25.040 back to this, uh real interesting hunting story. UM, I 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.520 got a couple things to cover off on once Chester. No, 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.960 sess not here right now, but I was gonna there's 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:32.880 something I want to like. Oh, call call, you know 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.039 what call set up? Is he available? Yeah? He's available? 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.080 Should I throw him on speaker phone? Guys want to 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:43.719 tell him something? All right? This is about Seth upcoming 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:51.960 wedding Chester, Seth. Can you hear me? Steve? You know 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:53.839 how I got to become I need to become a 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.560 minister to to do your wedding. Yeah, I was reading 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:02.320 up on that. It's real easy. Um. I can't remember 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.919 the name of the church, but it's like some church 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.320 out of Seattle. I'll become ordained. It takes about three seconds. 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.080 But you know what I was reading in Montana? You 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.520 can actually get because you know how you and Chester 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.679 have this problem where you can't do the walleye tournament. 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.520 Well we can't do that one? You can? You can? 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.440 You Montana is one of two states where you can 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.159 have a proxy stand in for you at your wedding. 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:36.960 I'm serious. In Montana you can have a proxy stand 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.680 in for you at I could do you and Chester 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.960 can fish. I can like officiate and stand proxy. Wow, 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:47.400 or do you just have cold be there because it's 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.599 like cal stand proxy. I wouldn't be bouncing back and 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.640 forth a whole bunch. Yeah, you just let me know 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:57.480 where to put my hands. I'll do the rest. Hey, Steve, 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.120 why don't you tell me this like three weeks but 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.000 I actually got married? It is Oh, you got married 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.120 in Montana three ds ago. You could have done it 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:10.440 by proxy. I could have went fishing. So Seth, you're 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.640 back on um. And this is just a shot out 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:14.359 because I know that as we try to court a 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.760 boat a boat sponsor for you guys, a lot of 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.600 boat sponsors might be like, yeah, well they're not fishing 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.240 all the tournaments because what he's got to go to 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:25.040 that wedding. Now, I think boat sponsors are going to 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.120 be perked right up knowing that you, in fact, will 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:31.599 be able to hit all tournaments perfect man. And I'm 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.240 sure Kelsey will have no problem with this whatsoever. Yeah, 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.599 ask her about who she wants to proxy. Um, alright, 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.159 for you, I'll do it. I don't okay, Ill said 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:45.320 he'll do it. Whatever, figure it out. That's when you 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.039 know you work with a good group of guys, is 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.960 when they'll stand in for you at your wedding. It's 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.040 problem solving. It's a perk here. It's a perk when 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.279 you come into get employment here. So good luck, rest 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.000 easy now on the Walleye tournament. Everything's in shape, awesome, Well, 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.279 thank you guys, really appreciate it. No problem, man, my 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:08.840 pleasure later seth Uh. Oh, here's the thing. So our 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:13.760 season ten on Netflix, which launched in two chunks February second, 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:18.360 part two. A bunch more episodes coming up February second. Uh. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:24.000 Spear fishing, I mean Caligro spear fishing with Kimmy Werner. 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.000 Um that that was one of my favorites. Man, That 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.640 was a very turned out to be a very good episode. 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.920 Go Hunt in Hawaii. Uh, shooting bows at goats. Feral 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:37.560 goats looks a lot like a goat you'd find in 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:41.640 your farm barnyard. But they're they're just running around? Were 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.880 they too? Are they tough to kill? What else is 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:49.760 in there. It's just there's just so many of them. 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:54.280 Any individual one is but when like any and if 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.200 I said, like, oh go get that one out there, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.560 you might find that to be extraordinarily difficult. But it's 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.320 like once bump, that one just turned slightly to the right, 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.400 and here comes another three, you know, I mean, it's 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.040 just like it's just mean we at all do they smell? 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.800 Yet each individual one seems to be slightly varying degrees 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:19.680 of wariness. There's just so many, and they're not all 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.520 doing the same thing, and they're not hip to your 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:27.040 effective range. So like they have great eyesight, they can 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:32.680 see you, but they also are aware of how close 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:36.040 other dangerous things get to them. And I believe the 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.280 most dangerous thing out there is a vehicle going sixty 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:43.920 and then one of the things like you imagine a 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.560 herd out They all are sort of operating on the 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.000 same information, meaning like if you went into an area, 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.600 if you go into an area and like you know, 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:57.720 spooked the bijeebas out of like a pack of cows, 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.480 it's not like the ones over fifty. It's a way 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:06.760 they're probably gonna go leave too, but they're not on 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:13.040 that program, and some might be like grazing north, but 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.480 they're sort of passing a group that's grazing south. It 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:19.800 just it doesn't It's just it's there are so many 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.520 of them. Um. I think we even talked about this, 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.360 I think now and then. Didn't they in the past 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.959 cal do a thing and drove a bunch of them 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:34.080 into the ocean? This sounds horrible and despicable, but if 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.800 you were to get an idea of how many, you 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.600 quickly see how many goats there are out there and 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.120 how and if somebody were to say, like, do you 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.720 think these could out eat the cattle on the ground, 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.440 then you're the wheels would start turning as to why 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.720 that's an issue. And I've heard this from a number 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.840 of different sources, so I think in some regards it 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:03.920 has to be true where a means of culling would 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.120 be to get a bunch of folks together and do 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.600 a big push goat jump they call it, and get 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.480 them down to the cliffs above the sea and try 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.160 to push the goats into the sea. I gotta point 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.440 out too, that there's a lot of people pounding it 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.760 out on public ground in Hawaii, and it's probably not 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.640 the case. But we're on a private ranch where they 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:26.199 want to get rid of goats. But it's not like 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.120 you can't just pull over and start, you know, go on, 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.720 there's a real it's because I asked Jimmy about this 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.960 a bunch because down on the Captain Cook site, UM, 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.720 that state park there, they um had to cull some 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.360 goats and they had a lottery for people to just 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.960 come pick up a goat to take to take home, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:47.320 just to get a dead goat and bring it home 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.080 or a live goat live or dad, I believe um. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.320 And I was like, is anybody going to participate in this? 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.280 And she was like, yeah, everybody's about like the easiest 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.320 goat meat. But for some reason, it's like if somebody's 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.360 gonna go head out into the tall jungle grass with 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.400 their archery equipment, they don't want to go after a goat. 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.439 They want to go after a sheep or access to her. 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:17.600 You know, wherever they are depending hunting farm animals. But 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:23.640 pretty much exceptionally take those places in Hawaii and there's 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:28.440 place and why were there hunting? Um, you can hunt 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:35.600 feral cattle freezer. There were so many of them while 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.120 you guys were out hunting. I was just seeing how 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.640 close I could sneak up to him. Yeah, I'm just 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:47.400 for funzies. Yeah. So Netflix February two, Oh Grant pointed 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.280 out too, it's also Groundhog Day that day, but they're 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.640 changing the national holiday and meeting or Season ten Part 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.280 two day. They're gonna make a Bill Murray movie called that. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:03.439 Um here's another thing. Man struck me like a diamond bullet. Uh, 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.400 next year's calendar and and you know, and we sold 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:11.440 a mountain of funked up old tree stands calendars. Picture 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:16.320 this funked up old taxidermy. That's Part two. A lot 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.640 of material there. We already got the website, we already 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:20.920 got the email address set up. So here's what. Here's 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:26.800 what we're not doing, much to Karne's chagrin, Krin is 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.160 into and it's just like it's just karn is into 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:34.360 the type of tax dremy where people make like, like, uh, 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:39.959 Harry Potter type stuff. Yea. Like when I say, if 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:41.520 I hear the word taxing, which is the thing that 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.480 comes to my mind, which is like getting your buck 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.559 stuffed so you hang it onto your wall. You're hunting lodge, 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:55.120 what comes to Krin's mind is a griffin. It's just 0:12:55.200 --> 0:13:00.400 like the you know, uh panda with a pheas his head. 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.280 I don't know, it's just like where her mind. That's her. 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.240 This is not this calendar. Maybe we'll give in the 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.319 back on the back page, we can give a page 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.719 with a bunch of things to satisfy cringe needs, and 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:12.760 she can just leave hers open to that page all year. 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.040 It'll be a bunch of these things people make, like 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.280 a bunch of things people make to ourn't animals. But 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.880 we're looking for like pictures of legitimate like the worst 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.959 tax dury on the planet. I have a private museum 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:30.160 that I've told you about in Idaho that we can 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:31.920 go do a photo shoot and that it is like 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.680 just pulling up right now. Don't send in the ones 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.440 that are already circulating the internet. No, these need to 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.720 be original, they can't be a favorite. Sets sent one 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.520 in the idea it was like some guy had it 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.720 up was like the worst coyote you've ever seen. The 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.360 caption on Instagram with sir, your Kyle is ready for 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:52.200 pick up. Hey, you know there's a really good one 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.880 where we're going to be next week. That's like I 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.560 desperately want to go, Yeah, we have the worst mountain 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:03.200 lion mount you've ever seen, um bad. And then yeah, 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.640 that's the crane that's right up Cran's alley. I feel 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.160 like that's off that Christmas movie, Ye little kids Christmas movie. 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.360 So the emails, Oh you know who's got an go 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.440 Matt Cook those weasels he's got on his fireplace, mantle 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.160 contenders Navy. Here's what you might need to do, though, 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.000 I think like, send what you got, and what might 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.600 happen is if it's if it's appropriate. When we make 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:33.000 our selections, we might either if possible, we might and 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.200 we'll pay for all this. We might box, we might 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.560 have you like we'll pay for shipping, but we might 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.200 have you package your stuff to send us to photograph. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.520 But just start making your submissions now, because that's got 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:51.200 nothing to do. Um. You can send them to fucked 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.040 Up Old Taxidermy at the meat eater dot com, or 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.160 if you're a kid and you're not allowed to swear yet, 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:05.160 send it to f you oh at the mediator dot com. 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.320 So message to my kids. If you submit, you better 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.800 submit under f U O T at the meat eater 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.880 dot com and not the other version and we will 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.760 start digging through. But your worst old like I'm talking 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.600 Grandpa's old deer with the newspaper print sticking out of 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:28.120 his ear, bad taxidermy great calendar, a lot of audience blowback, Brodie, 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.440 you better speak to this. Uh, my opinion hasn't changed 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:36.440 based on the blowback. So Brodie doesn't even remember saying 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.840 because that's how much how how I just don't think 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.320 it's important. But obviously some people really love their Golden Retrievers. 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.520 And Brody said they're the dumbest dogs in the world, 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:50.840 and he got he might as well have said that 0:15:50.920 --> 0:16:00.280 he like, Um, I don't know, like beat up mother Teresa, yep, exactly. Anyway, Um, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.200 people really love their Golden Retrievers. They're not and and 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.640 and they're not the dumbest dogs ever, according to all 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.680 these people that wrote into us. Um. Here's a quote 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.440 here from a listener named Pat who's a pheasant hunter, 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.440 and he ends with an invite to go pheasant hunting. Yeah, 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.400 I might take him up on it. At the end 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.480 of that trip he takes his spot. You gotta be 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:26.720 like that dog really is dumb Um, that really is 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.960 the dumbest dog I've ever seen. Uh So for the correction, 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.480 he says, my dog's name is Tucker, and he's a 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.880 four year old Golden Retriever. He is not only a 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.200 phenomenal hunting dog, he's also the best family dog I 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.480 have ever had, which you know, family dog, I don't. 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:42.400 I don't disagree with that. I gotta see the dog 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.840 hunt first though. Um. He is with me seven and 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:52.880 also enjoys the podcast. He's a damn smart lab the podcast. Um. 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.480 He can have his dumb moments like all animals, but 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.440 when it comes to work, Golden Retrievers are not the 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.840 dumbest animal in the world. Yeah, invited out of the 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.840 North Dakota, which isn't terribly far away. Who wasn't trying 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.520 to fend you fat Pat or any other Golden retriever 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.560 Well Krin said some people were likely actually legitimately mad. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.680 People get worked up about dogs, and you got to 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.200 keep in mind when you're an angry Golden Retriever owner, 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.520 you have hours and hours of brushing birds out of 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:29.000 their hair with you this stuff. Here's a mad email 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:34.200 we got. Okay, but here's the thing. The guy's got 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.080 a tone of like the guy's got points he's got 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.520 legitimate points. This guy is mad about our and we've 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.880 see here's the thing Americ like. You know, I heard 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:50.080 a really funny joke one time. Um, A TV executive 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.080 once said to me, I think he's the guy from 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.960 History Channel. Yeah, guy from History Channel once said to me. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:04.640 The only other country our audiences in arrested in is Alaska. 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.800 But Europe is a big old place. Okay, Europe is 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.600 a big old place full. You know, how are you 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.680 countries in Europe? Bunch, it's continent. They got them packed 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.960 in way tighter. US Americans don't know the answer to that. 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.680 But they pack in countries like we pack in states. 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.919 And they all got their own little governments, cute little garments, 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:31.640 all their free this and free that somewhere care uh 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.280 So we're always talking about what goes on in Europe 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.600 as though it's like a place and our credit. We 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:43.080 have mused, we have mused about finding a sort of 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:49.119 pan European hunting authority who would come in and be like, 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.200 here's the lay of the land, the same way someone 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.080 might come in and do a seminar on the differences 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.760 in the way the fifty States, the fifty U s 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:01.680 States the differences in how they manage, like from management approaches. Right, 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.000 you got like this, you can actually still you know, 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.000 set a bear trap in Maine. You know, you can 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.200 ventce your deer in in Texas and like walks through 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.760 Like here's how they're all different, but here's all they're 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:16.320 the same. Different. We've mused about this. Yanni is actually 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:23.280 going to Latvia to do an investigative dig deep on 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.840 lavian hunting. So we're trying to get educated, well at 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:32.639 least know how one of the hunting in Europe goes down. Okay, 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.560 so letter goes like this, Hey, Steve, you can start 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.760 making that noise you use to describe people who hears 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.920 something on your podcast, then rite to you to say 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.840 you're full of ship that annoying. No, no, no, I 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:49.440 think it's not that. It's not no, no, no no, it's this. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.320 So you'd have to replace the ends with d s 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.359 because in this case, you are full of ship, he says, 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.240 and you're see this is Here's the thing is, I 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.679 got this email a long time ago and I just 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.080 didn't get to it and then it was resent to me. 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.760 So this sent is resent to me yesterday, just like 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.879 a heads up, like a follow up on its anniverse. 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.080 It was the anniversary of the original scent. But it's 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.560 all fair stuff, you said. In your recent podcast covering 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.360 the flooding in South Dakota and the challenges that presents 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.560 to sort out the legal issues of access, both you 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.600 and Callahan blurted out righteous intonation at the concept of 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.560 landowners setting bag limits for fish in the water they 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:36.920 own quote own. We're talking about these floods in North 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:38.879 Dakota and South Dakota that like you think of a 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:40.680 flood like goes up and comes back down, but these 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:45.480 are floods that stayed. So in this old podcast episode, 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:47.639 maybe maybe you can find it and tell us what 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.359 it was called. That was one where we had a 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.720 guy on that blew was trying to jump up out 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:57.480 of his layout B line. Oh yeah, and blew two 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.880 of his toes off, and you think helew the edges off, 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.760 but he blew the middle toes out. Yeah, great guy. 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.040 It happened so fast he still shot at the goose. 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.760 But during shooting at the goose he realized what had 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:14.679 happened and didn't know if he even hit the goose. 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.879 He like blew his toes out, shot at the geese 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:19.960 then was like, oh, just blew my toes out. I 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:23.920 think said his foot fell hot or something. Let me 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:25.679 laugh at the brother. Well he was laughing about it, 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:28.560 but his foot looks funny. I think we put it 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:38.720 on your Instagram. Was this hunting the anthroposyne? Yes, So anyways, 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.760 you got farmers who or whatever. You have landowners whose 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.639 land is now under a lake, and so like state 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:48.880 managed fish swim over your land and it's covered in water, 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:51.359 and and these are lakes that used to exist, but 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:55.400 they've they've taken over farm So there's there's this dispute 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.520 like can a farmer go? And what's going to really 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.040 confuse was we also just talked about the same thing 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:03.840 the other day in North Dakota, but I'm talking about 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:05.600 we talked about it a year ago in South Dakota, 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.520 UM where landowners were like putting out strings of Booey's 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.280 to sort of like hold portions of the lake that 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.000 sat over their property as their own thing. And it's 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.200 just a lot of big piston match. Anyway, in this conversation, 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:23.040 apparently calnt I blurted out with righteous, righteous indignation, I'm 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:26.440 back to quoting at the concept of landowners setting bag 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.000 limits for fishing the water they own, of course, being 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.720 totally this quote from the writer the person writing in 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:37.320 of course being totally clueless. You boys compared that to 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.960 the European system, where landowners set bag limits. He says, 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:44.800 not that's not true, and he says it's something you've 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:47.280 done before. I hope this email prevents you from doing 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.120 it again. Goes on to say, I try to give 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.320 this information to Calahan, but he just blew it off. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:55.679 My take on you is that you're more of a 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.840 fact based person who does not blow information off just 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:02.480 because it contradicts your finally held beliefs. He attached some 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.280 articles which John he's gonna read up on a new 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:07.160 book reports down the road here when he gets a minute. 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:10.920 He goes on to mention a fella that that we're 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.000 all familiar with. And I've met Chris Eberhardt, who tragically 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:18.040 passed away quite young, um, not too long ago, but 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:20.080 the guy right and then says, you know Chris Eberhart. 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:24.520 I discussed the problem of ill informed American hunting celebrities 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:29.080 with him, and he made some interesting observations. First off, 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.199 it's pretty typical of you and every other American to 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:36.080 dismiss all of Europe as an elitist hunting and fishing 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.680 club controlled by wealthy landowners. Wrong on count one. Second, 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:45.400 that game management is a private affair with landowners making myriad, 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:52.320 potentially harmful decisions all across the landscape. Wrong, continuing to 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:55.879 quote it's all dictated by state biologists and failure to 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.720 follow their management plan will result in fines. And finally, 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:02.359 Chris points out that the American model is great and 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:07.720 it's phenomenal at increasing populations, However, it sucks at controlling populations. 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:12.560 The European model excels at that. Because private landowners are 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.720 not allowed to make hunting off limits or restrict the 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:19.879 take in hopes of growing trophies, it is easy to 0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:22.760 manage populations. That is a problem we are facing in 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:26.240 many places in the US where private non hunting land 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:30.440 as a haven for overpopulation. Too quick counterpoints. I feel 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.439 a little bit like the person, like this individual is 0:24:34.600 --> 0:24:37.480 sort of committing the same mistake that we're committing, where 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:40.360 he's generalizing in a way that I'm sure there are 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:43.760 probably exceptions. I don't think that all of Europe is 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:49.160 by mandate open to hunting. I bet you how many 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.359 countries they got over there. They count in half of Russia. 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:59.960 M I'm not sure if they're uh so. The other 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:03.800 to Shay is that in my life, um, in my 0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:06.560 adult life, I've really come to rethink what people mean 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:11.600 when they say overpopulated wildlife. I had a kid right 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:13.720 in m This is not quoting. I had a kid 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:15.240 right in the ore day. He's a high schooler and 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.680 he wanted to interview me for a school project he's doing. 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:19.359 And he's doing a thing about how you should be 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:21.600 able to hunt bears in his state. You can't currently 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:23.679 hunt bears in the state. And he's like, maybe he 0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:25.560 wants to make a documentary shown that you should be 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:29.840 able to hunt bears because they'll become overpopulated. And I don't. 0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:31.359 I've never been in a place where I thought there 0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:37.800 was too many bears, Like I can't think I've ever 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:39.680 think of there's too many bears. New Jersey might be 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:43.560 headed that way. I don't know him, right, but yeah, 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:46.119 but you also have never been like a farmer in 0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:49.800 have you populated bear country where bears are raiding your 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:52.840 It's it's yeah, I think that When I was Yeah, 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:54.560 you're right, I was gonna say it's a very it's 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:57.480 a very subjective thing, right, it's a very SUBJECTI thing. 0:25:57.520 --> 0:25:59.879 When I'm sitting in my dear stand, I seldom of 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:03.320 thinking there's too many dear it's a suggest. It's like 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:06.359 a farmer probably think there's way too many. A vehicle 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.159 insurance person probably think there's too many. Someone in the 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:11.040 state that this kid is talking about, probably and he 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:13.640 has an orchard, or he's a b person that has 0:26:13.760 --> 0:26:17.120 what's that called an apiary m what's the beekeeper called? 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.919 That's that's correct, an apiarist. I don't know beekeeper. He 0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.440 probably think there's too many bears. But a bear hunter 0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:25.600 who just drew a bear tag, why not think there's 0:26:25.600 --> 0:26:33.040 too many bears? I'm saying subjective. Um, read the articles. 0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:35.320 This is going back and to say, even if you 0:26:35.359 --> 0:26:37.560 don't want to provide your listeners with the truth, you'll 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:40.439 be informed enough to make too. Maybe stop feeding them 0:26:40.440 --> 0:26:44.920 a pile of horse ship cut the crap. Quit being 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:49.280 an idiot. Oh, I forgot a little bit a buttlepart. 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:54.160 European hunters are no less passionate and committed to conservation 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:57.800 than are we Americans. You do them a horrible disservice 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:01.360 and insult them when you slander their system without knowing 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:04.840 shit about it. That's fair, like, it's fair. It's fair point, 0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:07.679 and I do think he makes it. Also, there's a 0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:11.119 good point he makes in there also. I can read 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:15.160 here and quote that in Germany over six the population 0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:19.840 eats while the game because it is available commercially. He asks, 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:21.480 what do you do? What do you think that does 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:25.080 to encourage the general population to approve of hunting. My 0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:29.400 personal experience is that in Germany the populace looks forward 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:36.040 with relish to the availability of wild as they call venison. Nope, 0:27:36.280 --> 0:27:38.880 not into that, not into it. Not into it. I'll 0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:40.760 never give. I should say i'll never give because I 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:43.280 like to stay open to information. But I I know, 0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:45.280 I understand all the arguments how you should be able 0:27:45.280 --> 0:27:47.879 to sell venison in the areas where there's like a 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:50.600 wide consensus the deer overpopulated. But I'm not into it. 0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:53.160 I don't think it's a good idea. Well, I think 0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:54.679 you would think it was a good idea if it 0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:58.560 meant that we would get your offspring and your afstrings 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:01.520 aspring would get to continue hunting in our country. If 0:28:01.520 --> 0:28:05.240 that was the only way. If God came down to 0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:07.199 me and said, the only way your children will be 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:09.000 able to hunt, as if people can sell venice in 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:11.160 New Jersey, I'd have it would be a different conversation 0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:15.400 until that point. Yeah, that's why I said I'm open 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:17.359 to change in my mind, because he might. I always 0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:22.080 think of wild mushrooms, just mushroom sitting there on a hillside, 0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:25.200 mine its own business until somebody puts a price tag 0:28:25.320 --> 0:28:30.160 on it, and then it said, God damn battle ground 0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:35.480 of people being assholes to each other in parking lots, 0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:44.600 packing guns around, all sorts of nasty unts, including giant piles, 0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:50.920 are human feces you mean at the morel spots, at 0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:55.360 the morrel spots, or the commercial guys come in and okay, 0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:58.920 you're like, oh, kind of ceased to be a mushroom 0:28:58.960 --> 0:29:01.760 once there was a price tag on it. And that's 0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:04.560 a thing that can't run away, get in front of 0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:08.360 other people. It's just plugged right into the ground. You've 0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:11.280 also got the public land private land thing here that 0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:13.880 like isn't an issue there, you know what I mean, 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:17.480 Like market hunting on public land, you know what I'm 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:21.520 saying here, versus like you know, I understand all the 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:24.040 arguments against it. I just think that it's also a 0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:27.040 very interesting argument, something that should make you think that 0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:31.400 if we don't have six approval of hunting, do we? Yeah, 0:29:31.520 --> 0:29:34.280 it's much higher in the US until you started asking specifics, 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:39.160 it's higher than six. You call people. You can find 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:41.760 all these studies online, all these serveys online. But it 0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:44.600 only works until you get specific. If you call people 0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:48.760 and say, do you support the regulated do you support 0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:52.640 like regulated hunting for food? Right? I don't know. I 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:55.080 don't think you gotta put that way. Then you get 0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:56.760 I don't know. It's it's higher now than it wasn't 0:29:56.760 --> 0:30:00.520 the nineties. The minute you say something like do you 0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:06.000 support um hunting grizzly bears with traps? Trapping grizzly bears? 0:30:06.880 --> 0:30:10.000 The word trophy in there, Yeah, but any like it 0:30:10.000 --> 0:30:11.720 would be like if you went instead like do you 0:30:11.800 --> 0:30:15.520 support hunting game birds with the use of dogs, it'll 0:30:15.560 --> 0:30:20.200 go down like any detail puts it down. But the 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:25.840 general idea of like regulated hunting is acceptable until you 0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:27.920 put a face to it. If you had a little 0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:31.040 picture of a little fawn and you're like, do you 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:36.760 support hunting this? Right, you'd probably have a low score. Yeah. 0:30:36.880 --> 0:30:38.520 I mean, one thing you gotta keep in mind too, 0:30:38.600 --> 0:30:41.040 it's a big difference between the US and and and 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:44.120 Europe is cultural. Right, So you have in the US, 0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:46.920 we all share a common language and we have slight 0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:51.560 cultural differences. But in Europe, I mean it's it's almost, um, 0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:53.560 it's almost like you know, different ends of the world 0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:55.760 where you have different languages, you have different cultures, you 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:58.080 have different mannerisms, and a lot of that goes and 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:02.800 plays into um, you know what the the I guess hunting. Yeah, 0:31:03.040 --> 0:31:06.480 like less likely to find some well traveled person who 0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:11.479 has a detailed, nuanced understanding of all the different states 0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:14.320 game management approaches because you can go to a conference 0:31:14.320 --> 0:31:17.520 and hear all their biologists talking in English. Yeah. And 0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:21.560 I think that even the environment is quite a bit different. 0:31:21.600 --> 0:31:23.960 So what you're gonna find in like the old Slavic 0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:28.160 region versus the Scandinavian region versus Spain. You know, they're 0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:33.920 very different, Um, just language wise, weather wise, check out, 0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:41.960 though it's not as different as the north slope of 0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:49.760 the Brooks Range is from the Buyou country of Louisiana. 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:53.360 You're You're absolutely right. And I think the big big 0:31:53.840 --> 0:31:56.840 is that is that there's you know, it's tough to 0:31:56.880 --> 0:31:59.120 have somebody that's an expert in all those languages as 0:31:59.160 --> 0:32:00.640 well to do that, So might have to get three 0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:06.120 or four people. Karn's gonna figure it out. Sure, there's 0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:08.200 a lot of people who have traveled across Europe and 0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:11.200 hunted a lot of different places. Do you know who 0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:17.240 I bet would know all this stuff? Man, Um, Craig Boddington, 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:23.440 That dude is hunted, he's probably, he's probably he's hounty 0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:28.480 countries I don't even know about, never heard of. That 0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:32.880 might be interesting. He's a gun writer, Craig real, real, 0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:37.200 nice fella. He's military to write. Colonel Colonel Craig Boddington 0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:42.160 put that new notes, Krim put that new notes and 0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:46.160 smoke it. A badger found a bunch of Roman treasure 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:52.640 in Spain? You like that segue? John's um. The guy 0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:54.720 was looking at a badger burrow. You know about this 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:58.200 count Let's be up here here. Guy was looking at 0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:01.680 a badger burrow and like some gold coins are laying 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:04.080 out where he'd been digging around. They blame it on 0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:06.640 the unsea. They blame it on the very severe weather 0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:10.840 that northern Spain had as though this particularly harsh winter 0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:16.160 caused this badger to work extra hard and insert its 0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:19.440 legs and the even smaller cracks than normal next to 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:22.880 his den, and this hard winner drove him to discover 0:33:22.960 --> 0:33:27.280 this cash of coins. It's a nice hypothesis to not 0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:30.040 once someone went and checked it out. Two nine coins 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:35.360 dating back to what between the third and fifth centuries? 0:33:35.400 --> 0:33:39.320 A d uh way back when in my youth, when 0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:43.360 I was guiding antelope points outside of win At, Montana, 0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:48.120 there was a badger, maybe a family of badgers that 0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:56.920 had inhabited the win At Cemetery, and I mean just 0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:01.080 had no respect for the folks buried out there at 0:34:01.080 --> 0:34:02.880 the win At Cemetery. He's like, hey, you would you 0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:08.520 respect where my ancestors are buried? But not. Uh. Many 0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:12.960 times over the course of several years, I witnessed firsthand 0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:17.200 people shooting into the women went at cemetery trying to 0:34:17.239 --> 0:34:20.960 protect the bones of their grandfather's. Yeah, and every year, man, 0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:26.040 you'd see those tombstones and and uh, things just get 0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:29.160 like more and more Caddie want us as everything was 0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:33.120 getting undermined in there see a badger of carrying around 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:38.320 an old flask or something like that. Carrying around granny 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:41.400 shoulder blade. Yeah, one of the ranch hands on one 0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:44.680 of the places that we knew had had passed away. 0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:49.040 And you know, so we uh were real, real familiar 0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:54.280 with the date of internment and uh gotta gotta witness 0:34:55.960 --> 0:35:00.560 the progression of badger activity out there off of off 0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:06.000 of a known date. Yeah. The this this article about 0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:09.760 the this article about the badge you finding those coins 0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:12.759 ends with a very interesting superlative because they wanted to 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:16.520 close it with a superlative. So it's it's highly qualified. 0:35:17.960 --> 0:35:23.360 This was the largest trove of Roman coins found in 0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:28.800 a cave in the north of the country on Tuesday. 0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:31.279 I want to know what happened at the bad I 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:35.320 want to know how big a stash of Roman coins 0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:40.560 were found in the central There's some wealthy match out 0:35:40.600 --> 0:35:44.480 there that they're not talking about. Uh, okay, do this 0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:47.200 little uh do your report. This is not a call 0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:49.880 to action, but this is a ridiculous I think this 0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:58.720 is ridiculous. Oh yeah, so this past fall, a muzzle 0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:06.160 loader hunter in Colorado shot and fatally wounded a archery 0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:11.839 hunter killed. Yeah, well, fatally killed would be redundantouldn't it. 0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:14.560 I was gonna say that I stopped myself. I heard 0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:16.440 you stop yourself. I just wanted people to know that 0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:23.960 he was dead. Well all right, so he uh yeah, 0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:28.919 nothing to laugh about anyways. That has spurred people talking 0:36:28.920 --> 0:36:35.080 about how to make um the UH coinciding muzzleloader and 0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:39.880 archery season in Colorado safer. Um. Both of these groups 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.320 have over the years since they've started having these seasons, 0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:46.120 which is sometimes in the seventies, when they've had a 0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:50.880 coinciding UH muzzloader season and an archery season. Right, Muzlowos 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:53.760 have a little farther range. Um, you know, it's a rifle. 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:57.320 They're both primitive, so they both both archery and mussloders 0:36:57.320 --> 0:36:59.640 are primitive, so they've both requested to hunt during the 0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:03.560 run to make the hunt easier. And so basically the 0:37:03.640 --> 0:37:07.279 musloder hunters get a nine day season roughly the third 0:37:07.320 --> 0:37:12.360 week right rodeo September, and archery season goes basically the 0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:15.279 whole month of September, give or take the dates a 0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:17.879 little bit, but um, you have a nine day period 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:21.920 where it overlaps. To this point. Archie hunters just get 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.560 to go in full camo. Musloder hunters have to wear 0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:28.040 just like rifle hunters in Colorado five square inches of 0:37:28.880 --> 0:37:39.480 daylight orange. It's a lot um so uh. Since uh 0:37:39.600 --> 0:37:42.400 that year in the nineteen seventies, there has been three 0:37:43.719 --> 0:37:47.839 uh instances where hunters have been or archie hunter has 0:37:47.880 --> 0:37:50.400 been shot by muzzloader hunters. Two of them were fatal 0:37:51.440 --> 0:37:55.520 um but one a decade, no one more than a 0:37:55.560 --> 0:38:01.080 decade to five. We gotta get just like a person 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:04.600 in here from around it's like, oh we got one. Yeah, 0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:07.239 it would be like you know, point seven five or 0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:10.680 point eight? Oh sorry I met one point five decades yeah, 0:38:11.880 --> 0:38:14.279 um yeah, man, we should do a lot of math 0:38:14.320 --> 0:38:21.080 stuff with this guy. Uh. So they're proposing now that 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:25.879 during that nine day season that archery hunters, to make 0:38:25.920 --> 0:38:29.799 it safer, that during that nine day coinciding season, that 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:32.319 the archer hunters would also be required to wear the 0:38:32.320 --> 0:38:35.440 five square inches. Oh they're so, they're throwing down on 0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:40.960 the full freaking five five. Yeah. I read up. I 0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:44.279 read up, and it is a full five hondo. Um, 0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:49.000 but only while muzzle order season is in. Uh is 0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:52.200 in and only on public land? Do you know how 0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:57.879 long that muzzle latter season is? Not only public land only? 0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:00.600 While most loaders let you report it's over because I'm 0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:04.440 gona tell you what I would do. Ah, they have 0:39:04.560 --> 0:39:06.839 they have other options that are getting thrown out there, 0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:13.000 other alternatives like separating the regular archery and muzzleloader seasons, um, 0:39:13.080 --> 0:39:17.880 leaving it the same. Ah. But yeah, it's getting actually 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:22.680 voted on today as we're as we're discussing this. Mm hmm. 0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:25.760 What would you do, Steve? If I was the Emperor 0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:31.080 of Colorado, I would and I probably wouldn't get it 0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:33.760 done immediately. I would scrap all this talk. I'd scrap 0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:37.040 all the orange talk for archery hunters, and I would 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:42.120 put my best people. Um, I'll put my best people 0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:45.799 on bringing our this is the Omber of Colorado. I'd 0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:48.680 be like, I want you guys to call everybody all 0:39:48.719 --> 0:39:54.600 the other states that have elk archery hunts and muzzleloader hunts, 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:57.560 and I want you to come to me with proposal 0:39:58.840 --> 0:40:03.120 that separates the hunts so that when it's archery season, like, 0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:09.160 the archery season stays as a archery rut hunt. And 0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:13.080 we're gonna make like everybody else, We're gonna make Um, 0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:15.920 We're gonna figure out what that like allocation is and 0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:19.320 impacts on her dynamics and wintering range and all that garbage, 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.080 like a very well calculated thing. We're going to figure 0:40:22.080 --> 0:40:25.279 out how to have archery during the rut. We're gonna 0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:28.160 run our firearms seasons. Then we're gonna run the muzzloader 0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:30.200 stuff later, and the muzzleloader is gonna be like on 0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:33.160 its own late season. It's not going to be You're 0:40:33.160 --> 0:40:35.719 just gonna kick the muzzlers right on out of September. Hey, 0:40:35.719 --> 0:40:37.640 this is coming from a guy that's hunted muzzleloader in 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:41.600 Colorado during archery season. Okay, that's if I was the 0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:44.959 Emperor of Colorado, I would say, I want to buy 0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:50.759 twenty twenty three season. I want this all separated. You 0:40:50.760 --> 0:40:53.080 would have to be the emperor to get that ship passed. 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:59.520 I think in this hypothetical it's only valuable to talk 0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:05.080 about like like it's just like if you're talking about 0:41:05.080 --> 0:41:08.000 what you would do. I'm just something like if I, yeah, 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.120 if I was not the emperor, that that won't be 0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:11.840 the answer. I'm saying, like, if someone came to me 0:41:11.880 --> 0:41:14.040 with the problem, that's what I would say, because it's 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:16.840 it's it's a proven formula all around the damn country 0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:19.040 it is, but the only place where you've got muzzloader 0:41:19.080 --> 0:41:20.680 guys and archery guys. Why I can await at the 0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:23.840 same time. But you've you're all about traditional use patterns, 0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:28.120 and that's a traditional use. I'm not taking it away. 0:41:28.239 --> 0:41:31.000 I'm not taking it away. You're taking that rut hunt 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:34.600 away from buzzleloader hunter. Yes I am, which is traditional 0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:40.680 in Colorado. Okay, but not it's twenty five years. I'm 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:45.040 not stripping a privilege. I'm finding a way. Like, what, 0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:50.120 what's your big I mean, I'm just what's the big 0:41:50.200 --> 0:41:54.279 qualm with wearing some orange during archery season? I think 0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:57.440 I know the answer, but like, what what you know? 0:41:57.520 --> 0:41:59.840 What you're here's the thing I'm here's if I was 0:41:59.880 --> 0:42:05.640 the Emperor, my plan? Uh isn't I'm not responding. I 0:42:05.680 --> 0:42:08.239 should clarify this. I'm not responding to the orange part. 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:10.239 The orange part. I would say, there's an inherent risk 0:42:10.280 --> 0:42:13.120 of going outside with with weapons and wild animals and stuff, 0:42:13.160 --> 0:42:15.719 and like, yes, we've had a couple of fatalities over 0:42:15.760 --> 0:42:18.160 twenty five years. Um, we've had a lot more people 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:21.360 die from exposure. It's like it's inherently risky. You have 0:42:21.400 --> 0:42:25.400 a weapon, you're dealing with animals up close, people shoot 0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:27.959 elk and then the elk stands up and kills them. 0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:32.480 That happened last year. It's like, I like, we can't 0:42:32.520 --> 0:42:35.920 like there is risk involved in life. We're not gonna 0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:40.720 legislate to We're not gonna like create legislation to prevent 0:42:42.280 --> 0:42:46.080 a fatality every eight years among a user group that 0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:50.200 is wilfully going to engage in an activity. That's the 0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:51.720 first thing I would say if I was an emperor, 0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:55.360 and I'd say, but I do think it's goofy. Separate 0:42:55.440 --> 0:43:01.080 them because I just think it's a little bit goofy. 0:43:01.320 --> 0:43:04.120 And I've done it and I'll do it again, but 0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:07.560 I think it's a little goofy. That's all I was 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:12.440 just interested in. You know, the state Idaho, all of 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:16.960 their firearm seasons require zero orange. It's like if you 0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:19.920 want to wear it, great. Um. When I was hunting 0:43:20.000 --> 0:43:23.200 Idaho all the time, Uh, I always have like a 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:26.640 blaze orange cap with me. Um, and I'll wear it 0:43:26.880 --> 0:43:28.560 all the time or wear it some of the time, 0:43:30.160 --> 0:43:33.279 just depending on what's going on. Um. You know all 0:43:33.320 --> 0:43:36.520 these stupid pictures of people when they pack out bucks 0:43:36.600 --> 0:43:38.759 that for whatever reason, the fad now is to put 0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:40.560 the antler straight up the way you look like a 0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:41.920 buck coming You know that way you look like a 0:43:41.960 --> 0:43:45.680 buck coming through the woods season right? Uh, like a 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:49.120 buck back and through the woods. I don't do that, 0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:52.080 but I always throw a chunk of Blaze Orange up 0:43:52.120 --> 0:43:55.840 on top of my pack during those circumstances. UM. I 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:59.520 just want to say that the interesting thing that pertains 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:03.200 to this kind of station is UM. I was like, boy, 0:44:03.239 --> 0:44:07.640 Idaho must not have a lot of hunting fatalities, because 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:11.839 it rarely comes up that they need to start requiring 0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:17.120 blaze orange for hunting seasons. UM. But certainly in comparison 0:44:17.160 --> 0:44:22.400 to the Colorado statistics that Johannes rattled off, Idaho's on 0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:29.319 par with hunting related UH shootings and fatal shootings. Are they? Are? 0:44:29.320 --> 0:44:32.400 They ahead of the curve it went when calibrated for 0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:40.480 percentages since nineteen eighty, which was the um as is 0:44:40.560 --> 0:44:42.560 for a lot of places the start of the hunter 0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:48.520 education program. UM, the average is one point nine fatalities. 0:44:49.800 --> 0:44:55.680 Since Let's see, since the inception of Idaho's hunter Education program, 0:44:56.360 --> 0:45:00.360 hunting seasons have averaged one point nine fatality the's and 0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:05.680 five point eight non fatal shootings per per season. Once 0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:08.600 someone who's real good on the internet. Find uh find 0:45:08.640 --> 0:45:12.480 that for Michigan. I know that the Hunter's Safety program 0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:17.160 cause fatalities to plummet. Yeah, I think Dirkin wrote an 0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:19.120 article about that on our website. You know what's funny 0:45:19.120 --> 0:45:22.439 about Colorado is they don't require orange for small game 0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:26.359 and bird hunting, like you're using a gun, and yeah, 0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:29.040 I wouldn't. You don't need it here for bird hunting. 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:30.680 But I wouldn't gripe if they if all of a 0:45:30.680 --> 0:45:32.200 sudden you had to wear an orange hat bird hunt, 0:45:32.239 --> 0:45:33.879 I wouldn't have I wouldn't have a fit. But it's 0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:37.080 just weird how their nitpicking this situation and in the 0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:41.120 regulations because obviously we're all reading them all the time. 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:46.360 It's amazing how much print each state that doesn't require 0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:50.319 orange for upland bird hunting, how much print they take 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:55.920 up in the rags strongly encouraging to wear. And they 0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:57.480 could have been quicker just to make it that you 0:45:57.480 --> 0:46:00.239 head to wear. It would just be quicker. Yeah, you know, 0:46:00.600 --> 0:46:04.000 it's such a part of upland bird culture anyway, It's like, yeah, 0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:06.440 like they build it into bird vests and stuff. You know, 0:46:07.000 --> 0:46:09.680 it's gotta be related to why they don't do. It's 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:14.400 got to be like a mechanism to free up wardens 0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:18.480 to do like more important warden work, I imagine than 0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:23.160 just chasing around people with not enough orange on. In Michigan, 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:26.080 they felt that the remember being a kid and people 0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:28.320 saying that the reason they had on a hunters orange 0:46:28.400 --> 0:46:30.760 laws is sold the game wardens could find you quicker. 0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:36.920 Maybe you couldn't hide from game wardens. Um you'd be like, well, 0:46:36.960 --> 0:46:39.440 I thought it was because people shoot each other a lot, right, 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:44.120 and you know the bad guys aren't taking those vests off. Yeah, 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:46.759 it's like, ah, I'm gonna give up poach now they 0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:51.080 passed this hunter sword law. My whole program sunk. Do 0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:52.600 you want to hear how many people have died in 0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:57.680 Michigan real quick? Please? Uh? Thirty eight hunting related injuries 0:46:57.760 --> 0:47:02.759 eighteen deaths between need put that to our engineer, Well, 0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:05.160 we really need to know how many hunters on each 0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:07.640 It's that's just seasons, you know what I mean? Is 0:47:07.640 --> 0:47:10.120 there quite a bit more? And then the other other 0:47:10.239 --> 0:47:12.280 side too, is that's probably a lot more wooded hunting. 0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:14.680 So are you shooting that is like a lot of 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:18.200 that people shooting through brush obviously that's unacceptable, but much 0:47:18.280 --> 0:47:22.080 higher density of hunters. Hey has an engineer? Have you 0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:26.440 been in? Uh? Where are they? No? I haven't do him. Well, 0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:28.279 we took him down to put the tiki bar sign 0:47:28.360 --> 0:47:30.560 up there, and I haven't put it back up, son 0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:33.319 of a bitch. Phil. You might want wander over later 0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:35.960 on and take a look at that. Oh sure, the 0:47:35.960 --> 0:47:37.799 odds of the turkeyo walk pass if you don't do 0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:42.200 anything I like that in the woods. Um, thank you, Johnnie. 0:47:42.320 --> 0:47:45.320 Well we'll get back, Like I said, Durkin wrote a 0:47:45.320 --> 0:48:03.520 whole thing about this, all right, So ready we can't 0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:05.719 go on all damn day. Man, do do do do 0:48:05.719 --> 0:48:07.759 do do do do do do do do do do 0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:14.799 do do Friends and neighbors coming to you. I'll be good, Okay, 0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:18.719 agree to disagree on that. Should have gone with it, 0:48:18.840 --> 0:48:22.600 never give up. Well, yeah, there's the Uh we shall 0:48:22.640 --> 0:48:25.600 fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the seas. 0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:29.400 That one. So this fights about Yellowstone. Um back to 0:48:29.440 --> 0:48:32.680 the wolf desk, fighting the hot springs. Uh. We've been 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:34.880 following this off and on for I don't know how long, 0:48:34.920 --> 0:48:41.040 a few months now, right, this northern Yellowstone wolf situation 0:48:41.719 --> 0:48:47.840 where uh, wolves that live at Den in the park 0:48:48.640 --> 0:48:53.720 are wandering past the northern border of Yellowstone onto public 0:48:53.800 --> 0:48:57.560 land in in Montana and getting shot. And I think 0:48:57.560 --> 0:48:59.600 it was a few months ago the first one got 0:48:59.640 --> 0:49:01.920 shot and they've been whittling him away. One of the 0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:06.440 first things I want to tackle is do they wander? Well? Sure, 0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:08.839 I mean that, that's the whole thing, like this, this 0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:13.719 whole situation wandering, That's the whole thing is this situation 0:49:13.800 --> 0:49:17.160 is based on the premise that these are somehow quote 0:49:17.280 --> 0:49:21.920 yellow Stones wolves they got lost, um, which is that's 0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:24.120 a really good point. He might not think that he 0:49:24.200 --> 0:49:26.719 wandered anywhere, and if you asked him where he lived, 0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:29.200 he might point to Montana. Yeah, he goes, No. When 0:49:29.200 --> 0:49:32.960 I'm over in Yellos, I'm occasionally wander over there. Yeah, 0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:37.000 but I just happened to get my picture taken a 0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:39.640 lot more when I'm over that way, which lends people 0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:42.320 to think that, Yeah, let's assume that these wolves spend 0:49:42.320 --> 0:49:47.160 the majority of their time in Yellowstone, they den there, 0:49:47.200 --> 0:49:49.720 they raise their pups there, whatever, I think that's probably 0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:53.480 the case. Um. Anyway, I think the last time we 0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:56.320 checked in, like three of these wolves had been killed. 0:49:56.400 --> 0:50:01.719 Now we're up to twenty and uh, the Phantom Lake 0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:05.920 pack has now considered eliminated after most are all of 0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:11.839 its members were killed h since October UM, so an 0:50:12.000 --> 0:50:16.680 entire pack basically is considered eliminated from Yellowstone part of 0:50:16.760 --> 0:50:20.279 the park. Is the calling it a setback species long 0:50:20.400 --> 0:50:24.320 term viability. Uh, which that's a debated point. With a 0:50:24.360 --> 0:50:27.359 setback of research, I have a hard time behind me. Yeah, 0:50:27.520 --> 0:50:30.120 I don't. I don't think so. Um these will like 0:50:30.360 --> 0:50:35.960 Montana relaxed some regulations or changed some regulations just north 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:39.160 of the park to allow more wolves to be harvested 0:50:39.440 --> 0:50:45.080 in that that region of Montana. Um, the park superintendent 0:50:45.800 --> 0:50:49.160 is not happy about it. Some wolf advocates are not 0:50:49.320 --> 0:50:53.600 happy about it, and uh kind of button heads. Park 0:50:53.680 --> 0:50:59.080 superintendent called cam Shaley has raised concerns kind of calling 0:50:59.120 --> 0:51:03.520 out Montana Governor Gen Forte to to shut things down, like, 0:51:03.800 --> 0:51:06.720 you know, just end the season now g and Forte 0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:10.799 is not having that, and U basically says, you know, 0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:13.399 this is we're gonna manage wolves in our state, how 0:51:13.400 --> 0:51:18.000 we're going to manage them. And the season is continuing. 0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:21.280 So that's kind of where we're at. Remember that quote 0:51:21.400 --> 0:51:25.880 Yellowstone is two point two million acres of paradise surrounded 0:51:25.880 --> 0:51:32.359 by Reality's um you know, like I understand if an 0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:37.040 entire pack has been you know, essentially eliminated, that you know, 0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:43.560 there's some concerns there maybe, But um, I just I 0:51:44.080 --> 0:51:48.200 don't I feel like this as usual, This wolf thing 0:51:48.320 --> 0:51:53.520 is definitely being portrayed in the media without a real 0:51:53.560 --> 0:51:56.839 deep dive into things, into the wildlife management. It's just 0:51:56.880 --> 0:52:00.560 like twenty wolves killed, twenty Yellowstone wolves. They you're never 0:52:00.560 --> 0:52:03.560 gonna hear here and referred to it and half probably 0:52:03.560 --> 0:52:08.400 had names. Sure, they had numbers, for sure, callers and numbers, 0:52:08.480 --> 0:52:13.160 and well, I mean who did the population level quote? 0:52:13.320 --> 0:52:16.239 Like that's that, I'll eat my hat if that's biologist 0:52:16.280 --> 0:52:18.920 who said that, Like, oh that there's only ninety four 0:52:18.920 --> 0:52:24.239 wolves in Yellowstone? Know that the taking these wolves out 0:52:24.360 --> 0:52:27.440 is going to have a population level effect on these things? 0:52:27.480 --> 0:52:29.560 What's the main headline? Sure? How many puffs are going 0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:32.359 to be born this spring? Right? Yeah? I mean it's 0:52:32.400 --> 0:52:34.680 just not and when we're talking we want to talk 0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:37.319 about a population, talk about a population if you want 0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:42.040 to talk about um individuals within a population. But the 0:52:42.080 --> 0:52:44.759 other thing it's not mentioned is like wolves go to 0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:47.080 war with each other all the time, and like one 0:52:47.120 --> 0:52:49.960 wolf will go pack will go wipe out another, and 0:52:50.320 --> 0:52:53.600 you know, this vacuum of space is created where there 0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:55.640 are no wolves for a while, and then it's filled 0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:59.799 back up. You know. I think although these are human, 0:53:00.280 --> 0:53:02.880 fatality is you're probably gonna run into the same the 0:53:02.880 --> 0:53:06.320 same situation, like some wolves are gonna occupy that territory 0:53:06.360 --> 0:53:09.480 at some point. Yeah. That was my main takeaway from 0:53:09.600 --> 0:53:13.040 Diane boys podcast with us was that, like that population 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:18.120 fluctuates by every year, so if it truly is ninety four, 0:53:18.440 --> 0:53:20.640 then when all those pulps are born, it'll bump up 0:53:20.680 --> 0:53:24.960 to h Come on quick, math. Yeah. She said that 0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:29.719 that at pupping season the population is usually down, then 0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:33.319 it bounces doubles, and then it probably goes, you know 0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:37.600 back down. Yeah. If they're so mad or worried about 0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:41.360 all these wolves getting you know, killed, then they should 0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:44.680 stop the other packs from killing the other wolves because 0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:48.200 that's what kills wolves as Also, that's what she said 0:53:48.200 --> 0:53:50.920 that the number the lead caused of death and Yellowstone 0:53:50.920 --> 0:53:53.480 wolves as Yellowstone wolves, Well, I don't even think we'd 0:53:53.480 --> 0:53:57.120 be hearing about it if these weren't Yellowstone wolves. No, 0:53:57.160 --> 0:53:59.680 I don't. I don't think you would. The two primary 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:03.680 things that I remain interested in, Like, the main interesting 0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:09.000 points to me are that we're still the yell the 0:54:09.000 --> 0:54:11.799 greater yellostone ecosystem, a term that I want to think 0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:17.439 of a replacement for, um, the g y E. We're 0:54:17.440 --> 0:54:22.759 still above the objective that everyone agreed to in the 0:54:22.800 --> 0:54:25.919 early nineties as what recovery would look like. So I'm trying. 0:54:25.960 --> 0:54:28.319 I'm kind of like, I have a hard time understanding 0:54:29.840 --> 0:54:33.839 why did that understanding of a recovery objective? Like what 0:54:33.880 --> 0:54:38.759 has happened to make that so wrong? Yeah? Why is 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:42.960 that recovery objective now dismissed? The other part that I 0:54:43.040 --> 0:54:45.600 think it's interesting just to just to watch from the sidelines, 0:54:45.600 --> 0:54:47.279 I guess I'm not on the sidelines. I'm I'm in 0:54:47.320 --> 0:54:50.480 it is um to what degree is y also national 0:54:50.480 --> 0:54:55.320 park or any national park gonna dictate wildlife management across 0:54:55.360 --> 0:54:59.160 its borders, Which is like a really interesting fight, and 0:54:59.200 --> 0:55:02.600 it has implications for bison, has implications for predators, Like 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:04.879 you have a national park and it has its own 0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:08.319 rules and it has its supporters and visitors. To what 0:55:08.480 --> 0:55:12.239 degree does that rule bleed beyond those borders? With these 0:55:12.280 --> 0:55:14.800 buffer zones and other things we've toyed with. It's just 0:55:14.840 --> 0:55:17.439 a really interesting, like look at wildlife law and it's 0:55:17.520 --> 0:55:20.520 it's this fed versus state thing that's building up, like 0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:22.759 you're gonna see it with grizzlies too. Yeah, that's like 0:55:22.800 --> 0:55:25.000 there's an undertone of that, right, there's the undertone of 0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:28.400 local management, federal oversight, Washington d C. Telling you how 0:55:28.440 --> 0:55:32.080 to live and that As soon as the debate was 0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:36.000 happening with the introduction of wolves into Yellowstone, there was 0:55:36.080 --> 0:55:39.000 also the yeah, but what happens when they go out 0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:45.560 of Yellowstone? Like the same breath, same page. There was 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:50.000 never a thought that, oh, no, these are Yellowstone wolves, 0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:54.800 therefore they will stay in Yellowstone and that's going to 0:55:54.880 --> 0:55:56.759 be that. I'll tell you what happens when they go 0:55:56.800 --> 0:56:01.160 out of Yellowstone. They go down to Colorado and kill 0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:05.400 the first cattle and first beef cow in seventy years. 0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:09.480 Great segue, bread hit it. Yeah, that was way better 0:56:09.520 --> 0:56:12.520 that thing about those badgers. Um in a in a 0:56:13.160 --> 0:56:16.600 place Walden, Colorado, where Jannest and I have spent some time. 0:56:17.120 --> 0:56:22.880 Um a few weeks back. First livestock predation by wolves 0:56:23.040 --> 0:56:28.040 confirmed live stock predation by wolves in seventy years just happened. 0:56:28.160 --> 0:56:32.080 They should put a roadside attraction sign there, like you 0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:33.400 go down the road and says like you know, a 0:56:33.480 --> 0:56:35.560 historic side ahead. And they got one those wooden signs 0:56:35.600 --> 0:56:43.719 of someone chiseled into words. But here's the first. This 0:56:43.800 --> 0:56:47.839 is where the first UH commins seventy years is killed 0:56:47.880 --> 0:56:50.480 by wolf in Colorado. Yeah, and it gets juice here 0:56:50.560 --> 0:56:53.520 because the I assume wolves from the same pack just 0:56:53.600 --> 0:56:56.680 killed a ranch dog, a border Collie named Buster. May 0:56:56.719 --> 0:57:01.160 he rest in peace. Remember New Mexico and that woman's 0:57:01.680 --> 0:57:06.240 um dog got caught in a snare and the dog 0:57:06.440 --> 0:57:09.200 they made a law. Yep, that was like, what the 0:57:09.200 --> 0:57:11.800 hell's that dog's name? Pucci. Let's say it's like Pukam's 0:57:12.760 --> 0:57:17.040 anti trapping law. The anti trapping law became like Pugam's law. Yep. 0:57:17.280 --> 0:57:19.160 I want there's gonna be an anti wolf law called 0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:22.800 Buster's law. I don't know. This is for a Buster. 0:57:23.640 --> 0:57:25.960 My buddy, his bird dog just got caught in kyote 0:57:26.000 --> 0:57:29.880 trap in Pennsylvania. To get it out, he did, yeah, 0:57:29.960 --> 0:57:32.840 and he was fired up and wanted to get something 0:57:32.840 --> 0:57:34.200 done about it. The game was, do you want to 0:57:34.200 --> 0:57:37.680 get some traps? The game. They wanted to see that 0:57:37.720 --> 0:57:40.320 guy punished somehow. It's like, dude, like, was the guy 0:57:40.360 --> 0:57:42.760 doing anything illegal? No, there's a name on the trap. 0:57:42.800 --> 0:57:45.880 It was legally placed. Game. Warden was like, sorry, I 0:57:45.920 --> 0:57:51.560 can't do anything. Keep Dog on Leach buddy. Now, rud, 0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:55.040 who's going to remake the set? What's that is a foothold? Yeah? 0:57:55.160 --> 0:57:59.840 Dog was fine. Yeah, who's gonna remake the set? Very 0:58:00.120 --> 0:58:04.040 some scent proof gloves and remake this set? But moving on. 0:58:04.360 --> 0:58:12.680 Good job Brodie, everybody, Brodie Anderson, thanks speaking speaking speaking 0:58:12.680 --> 0:58:16.320 on gloves, if you had any chance to try out those, Yeah, 0:58:16.480 --> 0:58:19.560 we're good. Yeah, I really like them. I'm worried about durability, 0:58:20.320 --> 0:58:24.320 but so far so Yeah. I wear uh for cold weather, 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:27.040 wet stuff, setting decoys, pulling shrimp pots and whatnot. Like 0:58:27.040 --> 0:58:29.760 an insulated atlet. Wherever the hell that the atlas Vinyl 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:34.120 Love it's called Vinyl Love. You know, like seven eight bucks. 0:58:34.520 --> 0:58:36.120 I feel like I still like to say the three 0:58:36.120 --> 0:58:38.680 four bucks, but not three four bucks. They have that 0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:43.120 that insulated glove on the inside. Yeah, um well no, 0:58:43.240 --> 0:58:45.120 not the one that comes out, but I have both 0:58:45.160 --> 0:58:46.880 so that the kind of comes out, which is far 0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:50.160 superior because when you're the other one's wet. I mean 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:53.600 they're wet for like three years, especially up at the shack. Yeah, 0:58:53.640 --> 0:58:55.760 you get the kind of where the insulation doesn't come out, 0:58:55.840 --> 0:59:00.360 you get that soaked. Uh took mom up to the 0:59:00.400 --> 0:59:03.960 fish shack. Steve noticed that she had the kind where 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:06.800 the insulation stays on the inside, and you made that 0:59:06.880 --> 0:59:12.760 comment to her, and uh, she gripped on the inside 0:59:12.760 --> 0:59:17.160 with her fingernails, I'm guessing, pulled the liners out, cut 0:59:17.200 --> 0:59:20.600 a little lying around them. So now they're removable, and 0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:24.760 fix that some bit. Yeah, my whole life. She made 0:59:24.760 --> 0:59:29.120 it removable. That's a thirty seconds out the removable and 0:59:29.120 --> 0:59:37.440 now it was removable liners. So but dexterity is poor. Um. 0:59:37.520 --> 0:59:41.160 And then Yanni discovered a new kind word. Man, you 0:59:41.160 --> 0:59:44.720 could do brain surgery and those things. Yeah, I'm bummed. 0:59:44.720 --> 0:59:48.000 I bought four pairs. One pair was for me, and 0:59:48.160 --> 0:59:50.600 uh my wife was like, oh, but you know, my 0:59:51.000 --> 0:59:52.880 your father in law would probably also like to have 0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:55.000 a set of those gloves. So I can't even don't 0:59:55.000 --> 0:59:57.560 even have a set. All my buddies and family are 0:59:57.600 --> 1:00:04.800 wearing it. What Showa tamriy s smile to eighty two Yeah, 1:00:04.840 --> 1:00:10.120 it's like an insulated rubber. When you find online, you'll 1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:12.760 think you're looking at those vinyl Atlas gloves. Yeah, but 1:00:12.840 --> 1:00:14.200 I said, you could do brain surgery and you can 1:00:14.280 --> 1:00:18.840 count coins in it. But um uh, I'm a little 1:00:18.840 --> 1:00:20.920 worried that I don't. I don't know. I was tipped 1:00:20.960 --> 1:00:24.960 off by product designer about him, who said that a 1:00:25.000 --> 1:00:30.200 lot of uh, like ice climbing mountaineer folks that do 1:00:30.240 --> 1:00:32.520 a lot of climbing in the winter and ropes and whatnot, 1:00:32.560 --> 1:00:35.160 that they were using that glove. They're probably good for 1:00:35.200 --> 1:00:37.240 ice fishing too. You can get a pack of those 1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:40.480 Atlas gloves twelve or forty bucks on him. That's how 1:00:40.520 --> 1:00:42.960 I buy them. Yeah, that's how I buy them. Put 1:00:43.000 --> 1:00:47.040 him Like Steve said, you can actually do things with these, 1:00:47.240 --> 1:00:49.280 but I buy them in packs. And you know what 1:00:49.320 --> 1:00:51.760 I do when I leave people, I think this is wasteful. 1:00:52.800 --> 1:00:55.320 When I leave my fish shack, the last thing I 1:00:55.320 --> 1:00:58.240 do on my way out is burn my pair. So 1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:00.440 I'm never tempted to wear him again. It's like guarantee 1:01:00.480 --> 1:01:03.040 their full of holes. They get, they get funk. I 1:01:03.080 --> 1:01:05.280 used always trying to keep them nice. Now I'm like, 1:01:05.480 --> 1:01:07.000 once they get a hole on them. I just get 1:01:07.120 --> 1:01:11.240 rid of them. Uh watch this transition. You know how 1:01:11.240 --> 1:01:14.720 elk you know how wolves eat out sometimes. Yeah, Well, 1:01:15.000 --> 1:01:18.720 they got an elk hunt in Virginia first whatever mm hmm. 1:01:21.680 --> 1:01:25.160 Virginia is gonna have its first elk draw. They're opening 1:01:25.200 --> 1:01:28.120 up an elk hunt lottery. This year. They did their 1:01:28.320 --> 1:01:30.400 this is a quick turnaround. They did their reintroduction of 1:01:30.440 --> 1:01:34.200 elk into Virginia between two thousand and twelve and two 1:01:34.240 --> 1:01:38.360 thousand fourteen. February one, application period will open for the 1:01:38.400 --> 1:01:42.760 inaugural hunt. They got bulls running around already that they're 1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:48.240 They got three bulls running around nine pounds three the hunt. 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:53.280 So this will be the hunt for the three season now. 1:01:55.240 --> 1:01:59.720 The hunt will be October eight of this year, October four, 1:02:00.760 --> 1:02:07.480 five antlered tags. Application period opens February one, closes March thirty. 1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:12.720 It's probably residents only, right, I don't know. I was 1:02:12.720 --> 1:02:15.480 gonna ask if it was open and on. Great news 1:02:15.520 --> 1:02:20.680 for Virginia, man. Pretty soon those all those eastern elk 1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:23.440 populations are gonna start connecting with each other. It'll be 1:02:23.440 --> 1:02:25.960 cool and that happens. I got a hot tip for 1:02:26.000 --> 1:02:32.320 you if you want some easy pickings. Draw the first year. Yeah, 1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:35.640 I think that you will get a close standing still shot, 1:02:35.920 --> 1:02:41.080 I imagine, so uh quick note, we covered real heavily 1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:42.800 and uh what was the name of that episode kran 1:02:43.800 --> 1:02:46.920 get out of my airspace? What was it called? No? 1:02:48.280 --> 1:02:53.720 The last thing we do with Dave Wilms, all up 1:02:53.720 --> 1:02:57.200 in your airspace, all up in your airspace, in all 1:02:57.240 --> 1:02:59.480 up in your airspace. We covered this corner crossing issue 1:02:59.520 --> 1:03:03.160 where um, some guys did a corner jump on a 1:03:03.160 --> 1:03:06.640 corner that had been Uh they had to use a 1:03:06.720 --> 1:03:11.800 ladder to get over obstructions that the landowner who owned 1:03:11.840 --> 1:03:15.360 the private chunks of the corner had put up. And 1:03:15.400 --> 1:03:17.760 a lawyer wrote into us, He's got a picture of 1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:19.640 the corner. I'm not gonna tell what the sign says, 1:03:19.680 --> 1:03:23.840 but it's a no trespassing sign and a chain strung up. 1:03:24.600 --> 1:03:28.800 And a lawyer wrote in saying that why is the 1:03:28.920 --> 1:03:38.520 landowner not being cited for having his obstruction chains in 1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:44.560 the public airspace? So he's violating the same airspace argument 1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:48.240 that he's arguing. He's saying, when you step from when 1:03:48.240 --> 1:03:52.360 you do a corner hop, your body is crossing my airspace. 1:03:52.760 --> 1:03:58.040 Yet his obstructions, his chains are in public airspace is problem. 1:03:58.440 --> 1:04:03.360 Your argument for has to acknowledge the argument against right, 1:04:03.920 --> 1:04:10.360 Like if you believe in evil, thereby you believe in good. Yeah. Yeah, 1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:14.320 So he's like, I don't want your stuff over my airspace, 1:04:14.360 --> 1:04:17.000 so to prevent that, I will put my stuff over 1:04:17.080 --> 1:04:24.439 your airspace. Man, we took this to Dave Willis even 1:04:24.440 --> 1:04:27.920 has some Latin that I don't understand, but he said, um, 1:04:27.960 --> 1:04:30.600 it sure seems he doesn't know. He hasn't looked into it. 1:04:30.680 --> 1:04:33.160 He's just he said, taking it like so he's like 1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:35.840 cursory inspection. He points out that there is a thing 1:04:35.880 --> 1:04:40.600 called the Unlawful Enclosures Act guarantees the right of access 1:04:40.600 --> 1:04:44.920 to all public lands UM, which dates back to the 1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:48.160 eighteen which backs dates back to five. He goes on 1:04:48.240 --> 1:04:50.480 to say, I don't I haven't done enough research know 1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:52.440 how it's pertinent here, but there is a thing here, 1:04:52.440 --> 1:04:55.360 And he said it it's an interesting idea to look into. 1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:58.280 Um And well, we'll cover updates on that case again 1:04:58.520 --> 1:05:01.960 sometime soon. Okay, want to speed to the Minnesota deal. 1:05:02.800 --> 1:05:04.520 I like it because of the guy bleaches his hair. 1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:09.760 That's a sure tip off. You know how in these 1:05:09.840 --> 1:05:12.560 articles they always like to point out if the purp 1:05:12.680 --> 1:05:15.600 has a like a prior rap sheet that was real 1:05:15.680 --> 1:05:20.680 prominent in this that UM. I can't remember if it 1:05:20.760 --> 1:05:24.800 was like domestic abuse or like substance abuse. Anyway, the 1:05:24.840 --> 1:05:27.680 guy apparently was a bad egg, which isn't supposed to matter. 1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:31.320 But a Minnesota deer farmer had a Minnesota deer farm. 1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:35.280 He had c w D infected animals, and what was 1:05:35.320 --> 1:05:38.120 he doing with him? He was dumping them on public 1:05:38.160 --> 1:05:44.080 ground right outside his enclosure. And the what was the 1:05:44.160 --> 1:05:51.960 DNR found, UM evidently like evidence of prions in the 1:05:52.080 --> 1:05:55.640 area where these deer were being dumped, And so the 1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:58.040 deer farm got shut down. They said, you gotta put 1:05:58.080 --> 1:06:01.480 some up ten ft high bearrier around this to keep 1:06:01.520 --> 1:06:05.920 other deer and humans out of the area. He refused 1:06:05.920 --> 1:06:12.240 to do so, UH got charged with several different things. UM. 1:06:12.240 --> 1:06:18.040 Whereas it Beltram County pronounce where it lays out what 1:06:18.160 --> 1:06:22.720 he got charged with. UM broke the law in four ways, 1:06:22.760 --> 1:06:25.720 moving quarantine deer off his farm, dumping their carcasses on 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:28.520 public land, failing to test all his worms dead deer 1:06:29.160 --> 1:06:33.240 for c w D, and failing to maintain accurate herd records. 1:06:34.080 --> 1:06:39.880 Included unreported dear death, so they nailed him. Uh, he 1:06:39.920 --> 1:06:43.840 refused to put up the barrier, so the state of 1:06:43.880 --> 1:06:50.240 Minnesota did at the cost of a thousand dollars. And uh, 1:06:51.840 --> 1:06:54.520 they're trying to get this guy to pay for it. 1:06:54.440 --> 1:06:57.080 It's probably not gonna happen. I don't know, maybe it will. 1:06:57.280 --> 1:06:59.680 But anyway, if you found a guy passed out behind 1:06:59.680 --> 1:07:07.560 a street club in Las Vegas and rolled him over exactly, Um, anyway, 1:07:07.640 --> 1:07:13.480 he's he's his argument again there. The argument against his 1:07:13.560 --> 1:07:16.200 argument is that this is government overreach. It's not the 1:07:16.280 --> 1:07:18.919 kind of barrier they put up around other places. It's 1:07:19.040 --> 1:07:23.760 it's overstepping what needs to be done. You know, I'd argue, 1:07:23.880 --> 1:07:26.959 not enough is being done, but uh, I was gonna 1:07:27.000 --> 1:07:29.760 say better not let Doug durn get ahold of this guy. 1:07:31.800 --> 1:07:33.640 He sent it to us. But they don't say how 1:07:33.680 --> 1:07:36.880 big this guy is. I guarantee would take this guy 1:07:37.280 --> 1:07:41.840 from Richland County. UM. A good point here is c 1:07:42.080 --> 1:07:46.080 w D represents a major economic threat. Deer hunting represents 1:07:46.120 --> 1:07:50.080 a five hundred million dollar industry in Minnesota. And what 1:07:50.120 --> 1:07:54.560 does the captive servant industry represent economically? And I would 1:07:54.600 --> 1:07:57.920 think the captains servant industry would say this guy is 1:07:57.960 --> 1:08:01.760 a poor representation of captains. It would be like if 1:08:01.800 --> 1:08:06.080 if someone yeah, this can't be taken because if if 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:10.120 some guy had poached like thirty deer, okay, would we 1:08:10.160 --> 1:08:12.400 be sitting here being like just goes to show them hunters. 1:08:12.960 --> 1:08:15.360 It's like, yeah, I don't wanna this is not a 1:08:15.920 --> 1:08:18.599 I don't think this can be taken as as like 1:08:18.840 --> 1:08:21.840 that's how they are. But it is just like an 1:08:21.840 --> 1:08:25.240 extraordinarily kind of like shitty thing to do. Yeah, to 1:08:25.320 --> 1:08:27.960 take a bunch of a bunch of infected deer then 1:08:27.960 --> 1:08:30.280 in haulm off off your land and dump them on 1:08:30.360 --> 1:08:33.040 private land and then act like it's not your problem 1:08:33.320 --> 1:08:38.240 when they want, I'm sorry, you take infected deer off 1:08:38.320 --> 1:08:40.840 your place, dump on public land and then be that 1:08:40.880 --> 1:08:43.479 it's not my problem when they want to fence it off. 1:08:43.520 --> 1:08:45.760 So more so, do you aren't running around on your 1:08:45.840 --> 1:08:50.880 little homemade toxic site, which I mean this is. This 1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:53.920 is the entire argument wrapped up in a nutshell. It's 1:08:53.920 --> 1:08:57.479 like this guy read the history of the conflict between 1:08:57.720 --> 1:09:05.120 the captive servant industry, the UH proposed regulation history of Okay, well, 1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:09.800 we need stricter testing, we want a double barrier so 1:09:10.000 --> 1:09:16.480 wild individuals cannot come in contact with captive or farmed individuals. 1:09:18.040 --> 1:09:22.600 And he's like, uh, huh, got it, got it? It 1:09:22.720 --> 1:09:27.720 was a there was a dozen deer more that they Yeah, well, 1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:32.360 I think at one last point that's important here is uh, 1:09:32.560 --> 1:09:37.000 this is being watched closely by hunters, officials, lawmakers, and 1:09:37.120 --> 1:09:42.280 the commercial deer farm industry because what this what ultimately 1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:46.040 deer farmers end up being responsible for clean up? Wise 1:09:46.080 --> 1:09:49.080 could like this could have applications on that in the future. 1:09:49.320 --> 1:09:51.120 I can see that. Yeah, I can see that this 1:09:51.160 --> 1:09:54.360 could wind up the chunker grounds eleven acres as we 1:09:54.400 --> 1:09:59.720 say that, So you just lost eleven acres of public land. Well, 1:09:59.800 --> 1:10:06.519 his is enclosure was eleven acres m this spot they're 1:10:06.640 --> 1:10:10.280 they're fencing all right. Yeah, you know people in that 1:10:10.439 --> 1:10:13.760 area just lost not a catastrophic loss, but they lost 1:10:13.760 --> 1:10:16.600 eleven acres of public ground, which is now behind a 1:10:16.720 --> 1:10:20.240 fence to keep people out. Yeah, you're bumbing if you 1:10:20.240 --> 1:10:22.439 had a tree standing at eleven acres with a nice 1:10:22.439 --> 1:10:25.400 deer trail walking underneath it. All right, John Miller, you ready, 1:10:26.400 --> 1:10:28.200 First thing I gotta say, did you know that John 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:34.040 Miller from Minnesota? Yeah, that's how you could use that 1:10:34.080 --> 1:10:40.840 as John from Minnesota got a baritack. John Miller, you 1:10:40.920 --> 1:10:42.880 gotta be hard to look up. I bet your old 1:10:42.920 --> 1:10:45.120 girlfriend's ears can't even begin to try to find you 1:10:45.160 --> 1:10:48.720 on on on Facebook, John Miller. How many does think 1:10:48.800 --> 1:10:52.000 John Miller running around? I'm actually the sixth. So my 1:10:52.080 --> 1:10:54.640 dad's John Miller and his dad's John Miller, and you 1:10:54.640 --> 1:10:57.520 know about six of them that you're related to at least. Yeah, 1:10:57.840 --> 1:11:03.360 hard gutta fun. Okay, how does how does the story begin? Um? So? 1:11:03.560 --> 1:11:06.080 I think the first thing I gotta start with is, 1:11:06.160 --> 1:11:09.760 you know, kind of um building up, you know, the 1:11:09.800 --> 1:11:13.120 situation from you know, the actual grizzly attack. Right, Yeah, 1:11:13.240 --> 1:11:14.439 you know what when I say how it's the beginning? 1:11:14.479 --> 1:11:17.280 What were you doing? So we're out out con um 1:11:17.400 --> 1:11:19.200 and so it's something you do a bit like you 1:11:19.280 --> 1:11:20.759 like to get around. You do a lot of hunting, 1:11:21.000 --> 1:11:22.599 so yeah, I do. I do a lot of traveling 1:11:22.640 --> 1:11:26.600 for work, and uh, I like to experience a lot 1:11:26.680 --> 1:11:29.800 of different unique types of hunts and fishing and things 1:11:29.880 --> 1:11:32.840 like that. And this is my first big elkhonic trip. 1:11:32.880 --> 1:11:36.160 Actually I've I've had a cow tag before, but this 1:11:36.200 --> 1:11:39.280 is my first bull tag, and um, so we went 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:41.880 out for a gun season. I'm more of an archery guy, 1:11:41.960 --> 1:11:44.679 like the archery hunt, but um, you know, it takes 1:11:44.680 --> 1:11:47.679 a lot more time. And so this time we drew 1:11:48.120 --> 1:11:51.439 general tags and uh we went for the rifles season 1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:54.320 and you were in what mountain range? There? The astroca 1:11:54.479 --> 1:11:57.080 or some people call him a zorkis, Um, how do 1:11:57.080 --> 1:12:01.840 you pronounce them? Well, there's two different things, um, the 1:12:01.880 --> 1:12:06.640 Absorker arrange, but the Absorkies is something different. Right when 1:12:06.640 --> 1:12:08.320 people say I thought it was a city at one 1:12:08.320 --> 1:12:10.160 point in time, but then I've heard people use it, 1:12:10.240 --> 1:12:17.599 there is a there is a little town over there. Yeah, okay, 1:12:17.920 --> 1:12:22.160 well anyway, um, so we went out and season started 1:12:22.200 --> 1:12:26.519 on October one. So in October one, one of the 1:12:26.560 --> 1:12:29.640 guys in the group shot a bull and uh so 1:12:29.720 --> 1:12:32.880 we quartered that out. One of the guys in your party, correct, Yeah, 1:12:33.000 --> 1:12:35.080 So there were six of us in camp and one 1:12:35.120 --> 1:12:37.280 of them shot a bull on October one, and so 1:12:38.160 --> 1:12:40.120 we quartered out, brought all the meat back to camp, 1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:43.559 hung it, and uh, but left kind of the I 1:12:43.560 --> 1:12:46.160 guess the gut pile and carcass, if you will, deboned 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:50.120 and as one does, as one does, Um, I'll just 1:12:50.160 --> 1:12:51.600 throw that in there. Some people didn't think that was 1:12:52.360 --> 1:12:56.360 it would be a lot to pack. Um. So there 1:12:56.400 --> 1:12:58.640 was a carcass sky in that area that night. I 1:12:58.640 --> 1:13:01.080 went out on October one in and to a different 1:13:01.080 --> 1:13:03.920 area couple miles south and didn't see anything. And with 1:13:04.400 --> 1:13:07.320 horses are on ft um. We had horses there in 1:13:07.439 --> 1:13:09.240 camp and we'd kind of used them, but you know, 1:13:09.280 --> 1:13:11.479 if you got close to something, obviously you tie up 1:13:11.479 --> 1:13:14.759 the horses and go off on foot. But um, so 1:13:15.240 --> 1:13:19.559 let's just fast forward to day two. UM. So October two. UM, 1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:21.400 you know that on that first day we had seen 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:24.559 a herd of elk beyond where that first bowl was 1:13:24.600 --> 1:13:28.000 killed that got spooked after after that, UM, so we 1:13:28.040 --> 1:13:29.600 went back to see if you know, that herb was 1:13:29.640 --> 1:13:32.479 still there. And so we actually we went up to 1:13:32.520 --> 1:13:34.400 this this really nice knob where we could see this 1:13:34.439 --> 1:13:36.720 whole valley and it's kind of a burned area. So 1:13:36.960 --> 1:13:39.000 just kind of describing it for the listeners. You know, 1:13:39.000 --> 1:13:41.320 it's really open, really and you could see quite a 1:13:41.320 --> 1:13:44.360 long ways. UM. The part of the area that was 1:13:45.080 --> 1:13:47.280 um that had vegetation was all burned off, and then 1:13:47.320 --> 1:13:49.960 there was a really barren ridge that kind of went 1:13:50.080 --> 1:13:53.880 down and while we were glassing, we saw a herd 1:13:53.920 --> 1:13:57.599 elk at maybe yards to our north and and we 1:13:57.600 --> 1:13:59.320 were sitting there and we're no hurry. They were all 1:13:59.320 --> 1:14:03.240 bedded down. We could see the carcass from yesterday. Um, 1:14:03.320 --> 1:14:05.479 and so we we even talked about it. We looked 1:14:05.520 --> 1:14:07.640 at it and it's how many yards from you I 1:14:07.640 --> 1:14:10.639 would say at that time about five Um, so it's 1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:13.320 it's a decent bit. But and and you know, we 1:14:13.320 --> 1:14:16.679 could see a hundred two hundred yards all around that carcass, 1:14:16.760 --> 1:14:18.880 and and it looked like it hadn't been touched or 1:14:18.920 --> 1:14:22.360 moved or drug around or anything like that. And obviously 1:14:22.479 --> 1:14:24.880 see elk quite a ways out, and so your your 1:14:24.920 --> 1:14:28.040 focus kind of switches to, you know, to the elk. 1:14:28.280 --> 1:14:31.479 And so we started to make a play on these elk, 1:14:31.920 --> 1:14:35.080 um me and another guy and um, so you know, 1:14:35.280 --> 1:14:38.639 we started walking down, walking down this ridgeline that there 1:14:38.680 --> 1:14:40.680 was a trail that kind of it was cutting to 1:14:40.680 --> 1:14:43.280 the side of this hill and to probably ten ten 1:14:43.360 --> 1:14:46.800 fifteen yards to our to our right. Um, it was 1:14:46.840 --> 1:14:49.639 almost like a cliff that dropped into this real big valley. 1:14:50.960 --> 1:14:53.599 And uh, you know, we're walking towards the elk at 1:14:54.320 --> 1:14:57.240 yards and we're taking our time, stopping kind of glassing 1:14:57.240 --> 1:14:59.080 to our left because that's where we can see everything 1:14:59.320 --> 1:15:01.920 is often this burn vegetation, and you know, we're just 1:15:01.960 --> 1:15:04.200 looking for we don't want to spook anything to our 1:15:04.240 --> 1:15:06.439 herd or anything like that. Taking our time. And I 1:15:06.439 --> 1:15:08.240 would say probably on that we would walk about a 1:15:08.320 --> 1:15:11.439 hundred yards, stop glass a little bit, you know, taking 1:15:11.439 --> 1:15:14.080 our time, and you got a blunt to the right, 1:15:15.080 --> 1:15:17.519 You've got sort of it rolls over a blind spot 1:15:18.000 --> 1:15:20.519 but then drops off sharp. Yeah, and and you know 1:15:20.560 --> 1:15:23.400 we've been over there and looked at um kind of 1:15:23.400 --> 1:15:25.720 over that that ledge and it really you would not 1:15:25.800 --> 1:15:29.080 expect anything, you know, it's just it's just I would say, 1:15:29.640 --> 1:15:32.439 six hundred feet kind of down into this big valley 1:15:32.560 --> 1:15:35.479 and you know, there's just there's really not much there. Um, so, 1:15:36.000 --> 1:15:39.559 are you going towards the gut pile? We are, but 1:15:39.960 --> 1:15:43.960 we're probably we're probably gonna stay the closest we would 1:15:43.960 --> 1:15:46.080 have gone on that on that trail would probably about 1:15:46.080 --> 1:15:48.599 a hundred yards, you know, but we're we are headed 1:15:48.640 --> 1:15:51.840 in that general vicinity. And uh so, I would say, 1:15:51.840 --> 1:15:54.000 in our third stop. But you've already seen the gut 1:15:54.040 --> 1:15:56.479 pile this. We've seen it and everything around it. Yeah, 1:15:56.520 --> 1:15:59.080 and it's just it's not disturbed. Yeah, so you're kind 1:15:59.120 --> 1:16:01.360 of your guards down little bit, you know. And uh 1:16:01.439 --> 1:16:03.519 so we stopped maybe the second or third time, just 1:16:03.680 --> 1:16:07.360 to glass to our left, and I just remember hearing 1:16:07.640 --> 1:16:11.120 it was more like a squeal than anything, your brody squeal. 1:16:12.160 --> 1:16:16.040 Let's let's hear your best squeal. It was like that 1:16:20.720 --> 1:16:23.280 a little bit more aggressive than that. Ma, just can 1:16:23.320 --> 1:16:25.400 you can? I don't even to embarrass you, but I 1:16:25.439 --> 1:16:29.040 just like, yeah, I knew you're gonna ask me. Um, 1:16:29.960 --> 1:16:32.280 let's let's do like a like do like a similar 1:16:32.320 --> 1:16:37.080 to similar to like almost what you think like a 1:16:37.160 --> 1:16:40.720 wart hog or something we do, you know, yeah, kind 1:16:40.760 --> 1:16:47.720 of who did that? Um? Yeah? And so and so 1:16:48.080 --> 1:16:50.680 I'm I'm literally looking and both of us, both of 1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:53.920 us are looking through our binoculars to our left, you know, 1:16:53.960 --> 1:16:56.000 into the burn, and you hear the when you hear 1:16:56.040 --> 1:16:59.559 the noise, which is effectively over our right shoulder. So 1:16:59.560 --> 1:17:02.040 so we look over our right shoulder and there is 1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:06.880 a surly bear at it's ten a fifteen yards, I 1:17:06.920 --> 1:17:09.960 mean it's close, and it is running full speed ahead, 1:17:10.280 --> 1:17:14.120 and and there's two cubs trailer and coming from the 1:17:14.160 --> 1:17:16.120 direction of the gup pilor like as far as you know, 1:17:16.200 --> 1:17:18.640 like not related to the gut pose. So well, we 1:17:18.640 --> 1:17:21.640 can come back to that, but over the cliff effectively, 1:17:21.800 --> 1:17:24.160 so to our right. She came up out of that stuff, 1:17:25.280 --> 1:17:28.600 not out of the stuff I meant really off the 1:17:28.640 --> 1:17:32.479 other edge is a rock cliff that you would you 1:17:32.520 --> 1:17:34.800 would struggle to walk up without ropes. It's like a 1:17:34.920 --> 1:17:38.320 ridge line right skyline. It's a ridge line. She's coming 1:17:38.320 --> 1:17:41.519 from that stuff. She's coming from that ridge on the 1:17:41.520 --> 1:17:45.520 other side of that ridge. And you know, I would say, 1:17:45.760 --> 1:17:48.240 I would say, so, so let let me kind of 1:17:48.280 --> 1:17:52.680 describe the I guess the situation here. I'm standing with 1:17:52.720 --> 1:17:55.839 my binoculars looking to my left, look over the right, 1:17:55.960 --> 1:17:58.200 over to the right, and there's the silence two cubs. 1:17:58.920 --> 1:18:01.040 And you know, the first thing, you know, the first 1:18:01.040 --> 1:18:02.360 thing I would love to say, The first thing went 1:18:02.360 --> 1:18:04.040 through my mind was like, let's fight. You know that 1:18:04.040 --> 1:18:05.519 that is not what happened, you know, is how do 1:18:05.560 --> 1:18:07.840 we get out of this? Right? So I took a 1:18:07.880 --> 1:18:10.760 couple of steps back and I watched that that sou 1:18:10.880 --> 1:18:17.280 basically um kind of redirect redirect her her trajectory and 1:18:17.640 --> 1:18:19.879 you know it started. It went for the other guy 1:18:20.320 --> 1:18:23.320 and ahead of you. He was ahead, he was ahead 1:18:23.320 --> 1:18:25.479 of me. Um. And I may have seen it, seen 1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:27.200 her first because I kind of had a better vantage 1:18:27.200 --> 1:18:30.519 point from looking over my shoulder and whatnot. And so 1:18:30.760 --> 1:18:32.840 you know, I kind of described that as almost like 1:18:33.000 --> 1:18:36.759 a national geographic film of like watching a bear attack, 1:18:36.880 --> 1:18:39.440 like a clueless animal or something. It was just real graceful, 1:18:40.120 --> 1:18:42.439 just real fast, and like her mind was made up 1:18:43.160 --> 1:18:45.240 before we saw her that she was coming to eat 1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:51.400 and um. And so you know, I've listened some of 1:18:51.439 --> 1:18:53.280 your podcast and you talk about your big mistakes. I'm 1:18:53.280 --> 1:18:55.439 gonna talk about three of my big mistakes right here. 1:18:55.840 --> 1:18:58.400 So I have a have a I have a cannabaar spray. 1:18:59.000 --> 1:19:03.080 I also have a rifle. Um, I do not have 1:19:03.080 --> 1:19:04.759 a side and we can talk about that in a second. 1:19:04.840 --> 1:19:06.720 But um, you, hare's only so much gear guy I 1:19:06.760 --> 1:19:09.640 can take, but in my rifle. So I'm kind of 1:19:09.640 --> 1:19:12.160 a meticulous guy, right. I like to keep my gear 1:19:12.479 --> 1:19:14.360 really nice. And you know, I've kind of changed my 1:19:14.400 --> 1:19:17.679 mind since this incident, but you don't want it nice anymore. Well, 1:19:17.720 --> 1:19:21.519 I had a scope cover on, which is a little absurd, right. 1:19:22.280 --> 1:19:25.760 So I had a scope cover on and UM, I 1:19:25.800 --> 1:19:29.400 had UM. I had bullets in the magazine, but not 1:19:29.520 --> 1:19:33.760 in the chamber in my scope as people do, yes, 1:19:34.080 --> 1:19:36.960 as people do. UM. And I had my scope set 1:19:37.000 --> 1:19:39.519 to it wasn't max. I think it was at ten power. 1:19:40.479 --> 1:19:44.280 Now I do think you're dumb. The first two I'm like, 1:19:44.320 --> 1:19:47.240 I could see it. I could see it. But that's inexcusable. 1:19:47.560 --> 1:19:49.400 That is excusable. But I'm not saying that from a 1:19:49.400 --> 1:19:53.639 bear persuctive. I'm saying that for like no doubt, no doubt. Um. 1:19:53.720 --> 1:19:55.280 And And the other thing that's have you been the 1:19:55.320 --> 1:19:58.880 guy who killed the elk the prior day? Then I'd 1:19:58.920 --> 1:20:03.400 be like, sure, I get it, you're sure long shot 1:20:03.600 --> 1:20:05.880 never adjusted it. The other thing is, you know I 1:20:05.960 --> 1:20:08.880 kind of got into, um, you know, some some long 1:20:09.000 --> 1:20:12.280 range stuff. So I really you guys probably totally arguing 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:15.200 the here. I like the first focal plant scopes, UM, 1:20:15.360 --> 1:20:18.360 nobody uses them from hunting for really like for hunter. 1:20:18.840 --> 1:20:21.920 UM use I guess you correct me if I'm wrong, 1:20:21.960 --> 1:20:24.120 But do you have do you use the first vocals? 1:20:24.240 --> 1:20:26.680 I've had them, but no, not not on my hunting guns. No, 1:20:26.960 --> 1:20:29.000 Because the big complaint there is obviously like you know, 1:20:29.200 --> 1:20:32.080 your cross hairs are real fine when you're zoomed way 1:20:32.080 --> 1:20:35.200 out and whatnot, and so um, anyway, so I had 1:20:35.200 --> 1:20:37.280 the first focal plant scope scope. That's what you're saying 1:20:37.280 --> 1:20:39.479 is as you dial the scope, the cross hairs get 1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:43.040 thicker and thinner. Correct, like the cross hairs magnify out, 1:20:43.120 --> 1:20:45.639 magnify it. And what's neat about it is like you're 1:20:46.880 --> 1:20:49.960 you know, your Christmas tree below is always correct regardless 1:20:49.960 --> 1:20:52.200 of what power you're on, right, And so it's great 1:20:52.240 --> 1:20:55.000 if you're making five, but not I think you can 1:20:55.040 --> 1:20:57.840 have Yeah, I should say that because I have. You 1:20:57.880 --> 1:21:01.040 can have those that are extremes, and you can have 1:21:01.080 --> 1:21:04.400 those that it always stays pretty nice. I'm not sure 1:21:05.200 --> 1:21:08.280 you don't they you can get them where it's like 1:21:09.040 --> 1:21:14.599 very fine threads right or where it's sort of like 1:21:15.240 --> 1:21:20.200 uh like a usable thickness no matter where you are, 1:21:20.840 --> 1:21:24.320 where you can still find it against a dark object. Sure, 1:21:24.640 --> 1:21:28.960 but I think we're getting hung up. Yeah, um, well 1:21:29.280 --> 1:21:31.439 just one last comment there. If you have illuminated, it 1:21:31.479 --> 1:21:34.479 really helps. But anyway, um, there wasn't time to throw 1:21:34.479 --> 1:21:37.120 that on. But so anyway, I've got some issues here. 1:21:37.439 --> 1:21:40.960 So within I would say, let's kind of run down 1:21:40.960 --> 1:21:43.960 the timeline here. I have no idea there's a bear. 1:21:44.080 --> 1:21:47.000 Looking through binoculars, I see a bear, and then within 1:21:48.080 --> 1:21:51.559 I would say, within a probably a second, maybe a 1:21:51.600 --> 1:21:54.519 second and a half, that bear is eating the individual 1:21:54.520 --> 1:21:57.439 in front of me. Um, it's on top, just going 1:21:57.479 --> 1:22:02.320 to town. And I actually can't see describe what a 1:22:02.360 --> 1:22:06.400 grizzly bear eating your buddy looks like. Well, um, so 1:22:06.439 --> 1:22:10.759 there's so. I would say. When it was a couple 1:22:10.920 --> 1:22:13.639 maybe ten feet away from him is when I started 1:22:13.640 --> 1:22:17.679 scrambling to get a rifle. So I missed. I missed 1:22:17.720 --> 1:22:21.360 the the event where it smoked him, like you know J. J. 1:22:21.520 --> 1:22:24.599 Watt would like, you'd expect a linebacker just to blindside somebody. 1:22:24.680 --> 1:22:29.519 That's really about what happened. Um. And from my vantage 1:22:29.560 --> 1:22:31.920 point at this time, I can't see a human at all. 1:22:32.280 --> 1:22:35.000 I can see just a bear and I can't see 1:22:35.000 --> 1:22:38.439 the head, but I can see the neck muscles like 1:22:38.560 --> 1:22:45.120 it's devouring, right, So I can see like they're both 1:22:45.160 --> 1:22:48.360 looking away from me effectively so that the bears. I 1:22:48.360 --> 1:22:51.360 can see the bears rear and I can't see its head. 1:22:51.560 --> 1:22:54.640 Is your partner on his belly around his back, you know, 1:22:55.240 --> 1:23:00.120 tough dude, great, great reaction to everything. He actually got 1:23:00.160 --> 1:23:03.559 on his back, and what was going on at the 1:23:03.600 --> 1:23:06.400 time was he had stuck his left arm out trying 1:23:06.400 --> 1:23:08.800 to draw his side arm, which is in a shoulder holter. 1:23:09.600 --> 1:23:13.360 But the bear, it immediately just grabbed his hand. And 1:23:13.400 --> 1:23:16.360 so from from my perspective, I can't see any of that. 1:23:16.439 --> 1:23:18.680 I could just see a bear and I know my 1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:21.760 you know, my buddies underneath him, and so that's that's 1:23:21.760 --> 1:23:34.280 what I see. So I remember a couple like very 1:23:34.320 --> 1:23:37.120 cognitive decisions going through my head right The first one 1:23:37.120 --> 1:23:39.400 is how do we get away? The second one is, 1:23:39.560 --> 1:23:41.760 you know, we're not getting away? This is this is 1:23:41.800 --> 1:23:45.240 happening right now. And so I I grabbed the rifle, 1:23:45.520 --> 1:23:47.720 chambered around, threw the cover off, and brought it up, 1:23:48.080 --> 1:23:52.920 you know, to my cheek, and and uh, surprisingly, I 1:23:53.360 --> 1:23:56.320 remember like immediately finding the bear, you know, like you 1:23:56.320 --> 1:23:59.599 would think the bear and only the bear, you know. 1:24:00.160 --> 1:24:01.920 I think I must have been having like two eyes 1:24:02.000 --> 1:24:05.519 open or something. It's I seemed incredibly confident where I 1:24:05.560 --> 1:24:10.920 was aiming at that time, you know, especially incredibly confident. 1:24:11.000 --> 1:24:13.360 And I remember thinking to myself, like, well, I can't 1:24:13.360 --> 1:24:15.479 shoot here, which is where I would like to shoot, 1:24:15.760 --> 1:24:19.280 because I'm shooting you know, three D three hundred wind 1:24:19.320 --> 1:24:23.000 mag twitter and eighty five grain bullet at six yards 1:24:23.000 --> 1:24:25.760 ten yards and it's probably coming out the other side, right, 1:24:26.240 --> 1:24:27.720 so you don't want to you know, I didn't want 1:24:27.760 --> 1:24:30.439 to shoot there. And so what actually went through my 1:24:30.439 --> 1:24:32.080 head was, you know, if if I just shoot, the 1:24:32.120 --> 1:24:35.599 barrel probably gets booked and run off, which is well, 1:24:35.640 --> 1:24:37.879 we can get in that later. But so I remember 1:24:37.960 --> 1:24:40.479 just aiming where I thought kind of the vitals were, 1:24:40.800 --> 1:24:42.600 and I was like, well, I can't shoot here, so 1:24:42.640 --> 1:24:45.080 I just brought it up to kind of the higher 1:24:45.120 --> 1:24:47.120 part of its back. That's what I was kind of 1:24:47.120 --> 1:24:50.559 trying to explain video where I had an adrenaline running, 1:24:50.600 --> 1:24:52.320 but so I kind of brought it up higher on 1:24:52.320 --> 1:24:55.880 the back and just squeezed and she went off, and 1:24:55.880 --> 1:25:01.120 that that bear immediately let up turn earned and started 1:25:01.160 --> 1:25:04.840 charging me, and and I guess I would describe it 1:25:04.880 --> 1:25:07.559 as like, you know, the the film kind of changed, right, 1:25:07.600 --> 1:25:09.599 So at first it was this now this beautiful national 1:25:09.680 --> 1:25:13.600 geographic film of a bear kind of going going in 1:25:13.680 --> 1:25:15.080 for a kill, and then all of a sudden, it 1:25:15.120 --> 1:25:19.040 was like the Revenant where the bears angry, really angry, 1:25:19.479 --> 1:25:23.479 and so um, so the bear immediately starts letting up, 1:25:23.520 --> 1:25:27.400 which actually allows um, you know, the other guy to 1:25:27.400 --> 1:25:32.599 to to draw his side arm on his left hand, 1:25:33.320 --> 1:25:35.800 draw his side arm with his right and kind of 1:25:35.840 --> 1:25:40.280 get up while while discharging around, which was awesome. And 1:25:40.360 --> 1:25:44.960 I remember thinking to myself after the shot, Um, you know, 1:25:46.000 --> 1:25:49.680 I really hope that you know that the individuals live 1:25:49.720 --> 1:25:51.400 on the other side. And so I remember kind of 1:25:51.400 --> 1:25:54.519 looking around the bear and he was standing up and 1:25:54.920 --> 1:26:01.080 you know, like victory, right, and immediately followed by oh shit, 1:26:02.439 --> 1:26:04.000 now hold on when he's getting up he said, he 1:26:04.080 --> 1:26:07.040 discharged a shot too. He also did, Yes, so the 1:26:07.080 --> 1:26:12.120 bears between you guys, consider your location as you were 1:26:12.120 --> 1:26:18.559 of his location. Um, I think for sure. Honestly, he 1:26:18.640 --> 1:26:21.160 kept his wits real quite quite well. And he's got 1:26:21.160 --> 1:26:25.360 a ten millimeter pistol, you said, correct, correct, you know, Um, 1:26:25.439 --> 1:26:27.720 the sample size is very small. But there was a 1:26:27.760 --> 1:26:30.479 statistic floating around after these guys that just sort of 1:26:30.520 --> 1:26:33.040 meta analysis of all these bear encounters, and it was 1:26:33.080 --> 1:26:36.519 in context of spray versus pistols, And I do you 1:26:36.560 --> 1:26:41.400 guys remember this that pent of the time a firearm 1:26:41.520 --> 1:26:44.639 is discharged during a bear attack, it hits a person. Geez, 1:26:46.280 --> 1:26:48.200 it was a lot. That's crazy. I can think of 1:26:48.280 --> 1:26:51.320 like multiple stories of things just in the last few 1:26:51.360 --> 1:26:54.280 years of that happening. Well, I don't know, but like 1:26:54.320 --> 1:26:55.599 I said, man, it's like, how big is this saying? 1:26:55.600 --> 1:26:57.080 You know, I don't know. I don't know about I 1:26:57.080 --> 1:27:02.040 remember that was just that was out there floating around. Um. So, 1:27:02.040 --> 1:27:04.719 so back to the story. So the bears now charging 1:27:04.760 --> 1:27:10.280 me another you know, he discharged the one round and 1:27:10.320 --> 1:27:14.960 then I remember trying. Um, I basically took two steps back, 1:27:15.360 --> 1:27:18.080 and you know, actually after the incident, I listened to 1:27:18.160 --> 1:27:20.920 your guys podcast about you diving out of the way, 1:27:21.040 --> 1:27:24.439 Steve and and um who is the other individual, Alex 1:27:24.520 --> 1:27:28.840 maybe from Alex Messenger, the guy, the canoe guy. He 1:27:28.920 --> 1:27:31.920 also out of the way, Like you guys are crazy. 1:27:32.680 --> 1:27:35.800 My my philosophy was get on my back. So I 1:27:35.960 --> 1:27:39.160 dove to my back and I had my rifle basically 1:27:39.360 --> 1:27:41.800 kind of a front of my neck, and I stuck out. 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.519 You know, I brought my foot up and I my 1:27:44.560 --> 1:27:46.439 philosophy was kind of a hail Mary, I'm gonna kick 1:27:46.479 --> 1:27:49.000 it in the face. I'm gonna kicking this out. There's 1:27:49.040 --> 1:27:52.080 no time to rack another round, no, I mean and 1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:58.439 and actually, UM, I think subconsciously I tried because like 1:27:58.479 --> 1:28:01.519 my my hand got jammed under my bolt which was out. 1:28:01.760 --> 1:28:04.679 So I had pulled the bolt out and hadn't even 1:28:04.960 --> 1:28:07.640 really been able to drive another round in. And so 1:28:07.680 --> 1:28:11.800 I'm on my back and the bears coming, jaw open, snapping, 1:28:12.280 --> 1:28:15.200 and you know, it gets to that last step and 1:28:15.280 --> 1:28:19.400 I kick and I just kind of mess and I 1:28:19.520 --> 1:28:23.240 hit something, you know, but I miss, I don't really 1:28:23.280 --> 1:28:26.880 hit anything solid, right, and um, and the bear now 1:28:27.000 --> 1:28:30.639 is all of a sudden kind of quartering away and 1:28:30.720 --> 1:28:33.640 you know, trying, trying almost I don't get away or 1:28:33.720 --> 1:28:38.559 circle around or or something. But something happened, right, So 1:28:38.560 --> 1:28:40.600 so the other digital follows the bear, you know, it 1:28:40.600 --> 1:28:43.559 gets um gets quite close. And when the bears kind 1:28:43.560 --> 1:28:48.240 of circling around or or making its way away, UM, 1:28:48.280 --> 1:28:50.559 he's looking at his his hand, which his thumb is 1:28:50.800 --> 1:28:55.360 quite quite mangled. UM. And and I see his pistol, 1:28:55.840 --> 1:28:58.280 and so I go and grab that pistol. And I'm 1:28:58.320 --> 1:29:01.280 thinking to myself, I'm not doing around two of this, UM, 1:29:01.320 --> 1:29:04.080 and so I put three more UM pop pop pop 1:29:04.280 --> 1:29:08.280 and uh and a real quick yeah. And the bear 1:29:08.320 --> 1:29:10.400 is not that far away when you're in the video, correct, 1:29:10.720 --> 1:29:13.840 And at that time the cubs were actually um and 1:29:13.880 --> 1:29:15.920 I kind of left that out. The cubs almost were 1:29:15.960 --> 1:29:18.320 near me almost the whole time. And so I am 1:29:18.479 --> 1:29:20.880 I'm kind of finishing off the bear with the cubs 1:29:20.960 --> 1:29:25.400 running past me to go to that south um, and 1:29:26.160 --> 1:29:29.120 the bear kind of was the what was the age 1:29:29.600 --> 1:29:33.880 class on the cubs? Um, the year cubs last year? 1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:35.840 You know, it's this year's cubs and they were real 1:29:35.920 --> 1:29:41.160 small um and so yeah, so um, effectively, you know, 1:29:41.280 --> 1:29:44.760 five rounds are fired, the situation is neutralized, and now 1:29:44.760 --> 1:29:48.719 it's time to kind of attend the medical situation because 1:29:48.760 --> 1:29:52.799 that's obviously the as. So the bear has been shot twice, 1:29:52.840 --> 1:29:55.240 it runs, you shoot a cup more times and then 1:29:55.360 --> 1:29:57.360 it does like piles up like dead or and dead 1:29:57.439 --> 1:30:00.680 or like piles up like and then rolls round for 1:30:00.720 --> 1:30:02.800 a long time. Um. There was no like, you know, 1:30:03.040 --> 1:30:05.240 like a death moan. People talk about death moans of bears. 1:30:05.400 --> 1:30:08.280 It really didn't do that. Um. So so just to 1:30:08.320 --> 1:30:10.760 kind of run through it, you know in fast you know, 1:30:10.800 --> 1:30:14.320 in fast motion, so maybe one or two seconds before 1:30:14.360 --> 1:30:16.600 the bear is on top of the other other individuals. 1:30:17.320 --> 1:30:21.120 The bear is shot, you know, probably half a second second. UM, 1:30:21.280 --> 1:30:24.800 well on top Um then immediately charges me. You can 1:30:24.840 --> 1:30:27.320 imagine how long that took. Maybe half a second or 1:30:27.320 --> 1:30:29.800 a second. And then it's trying to get away. The 1:30:29.880 --> 1:30:31.840 three other shots are fired. You know, I grabbed the pistol, 1:30:31.840 --> 1:30:34.759 fire three other shots, and the whole event I would 1:30:34.760 --> 1:30:38.360 say six to eight seconds from from not knowing there's 1:30:38.400 --> 1:30:42.479 a bear to firing the last round thinking to myself 1:30:42.920 --> 1:30:46.479 that did it. And and I would say the last 1:30:46.600 --> 1:30:49.639 round it kind of just buckled, you know what I mean. 1:30:49.800 --> 1:30:52.719 It just you know when you hit something that you're like, okay, 1:30:52.720 --> 1:30:56.320 that hurt, you know. Um. And so so then the 1:30:56.360 --> 1:30:58.559 cubs go and they go and hang out on on 1:30:58.600 --> 1:31:01.599 that sell and uh. And so then we're kind of 1:31:01.640 --> 1:31:06.760 addressing the situation. And so UM, I go through my 1:31:06.800 --> 1:31:11.240 pack and another mistake we also, I don't have a 1:31:11.800 --> 1:31:14.960 I have a first aid kit back at camp right, 1:31:15.000 --> 1:31:16.519 I don't have any in my back, but I do 1:31:16.600 --> 1:31:19.880 have a spare set of woolf socks. And so we 1:31:19.960 --> 1:31:23.240 kind of put the thumb back in the where it's 1:31:23.240 --> 1:31:25.920 supposed to be, and and I wrapped one sock around 1:31:25.960 --> 1:31:28.839 real tight and almost tight like a knot or a splint, 1:31:29.200 --> 1:31:31.519 and then put the other sock over the top just 1:31:31.560 --> 1:31:35.160 to kind of apply pressure to the wound. UM, and 1:31:35.200 --> 1:31:40.280 then obviously keeping it elevated and whatnot. UM. Pretty much 1:31:40.360 --> 1:31:43.360 that whole area we did not have any cell service, 1:31:43.680 --> 1:31:47.200 but actually right on that ridge, UM, we were able 1:31:47.240 --> 1:31:52.040 to call nine one one and and uh explain the situation. UM. 1:31:52.080 --> 1:31:55.680 At that time they mentioned the helicopter or to get 1:31:55.680 --> 1:31:59.120 a helicopter, it would have come from Riverton, UM, which 1:31:59.200 --> 1:32:02.880 is little ways out, and they couldn't take off for 1:32:02.880 --> 1:32:05.360 another hour. So as you were talking, three or four 1:32:05.360 --> 1:32:08.360 hours before a helicopter would come. And really, if you 1:32:08.400 --> 1:32:11.519 looked at the you know, the scenery, it wasn't really 1:32:11.520 --> 1:32:14.240 somewhere you could land it nicely. Let's just say that. 1:32:15.439 --> 1:32:18.880 So we made the decision to ride out. UM. So 1:32:19.520 --> 1:32:23.400 UM we contacted the other UM a couple other folks 1:32:23.400 --> 1:32:25.800 in the hunting party, and they brought the horses down 1:32:26.200 --> 1:32:30.160 UM and we rode out, and uh we were met 1:32:30.200 --> 1:32:34.040 by a mirage of people that obviously at the trailhead. UM. 1:32:34.120 --> 1:32:37.400 You know, you got your game in fish UM Search 1:32:37.439 --> 1:32:43.040 and Rescue teams, helicopter that had landed the trailhead, um ambulance, 1:32:43.080 --> 1:32:46.400 so on and so forth. For it was actually, um, 1:32:46.439 --> 1:32:50.280 this is kind of a funny. Jim Zombo was there, um, 1:32:50.320 --> 1:32:52.920 just to see what's going on. Yeah, I'm not really sure. 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:58.120 Um and uh, you know, it's kind of embarrassing probably 1:32:58.120 --> 1:33:00.760 on my my behalf. But another I that was there 1:33:00.920 --> 1:33:02.200 was like, hey, you know who this is? You know? 1:33:02.479 --> 1:33:04.280 And I look at him and no, I have no idea. 1:33:04.840 --> 1:33:06.680 I did not know who Jim Jumbo was at the time. 1:33:06.720 --> 1:33:10.559 But um, so anyway, I can't say i'd recognize him either. 1:33:10.920 --> 1:33:14.599 So just there would be like, what's going on? Um, 1:33:14.680 --> 1:33:19.400 he must live nearby. Yeah, I know he's in Northern Wyoming. 1:33:19.840 --> 1:33:22.960 He's playing the Captain Quint character. Like when you get there, 1:33:23.040 --> 1:33:28.760 he's like, I'll catch you a bear. Yeah, is your 1:33:28.760 --> 1:33:32.240 buddy real quick? Is your Is it just his hand 1:33:32.280 --> 1:33:36.439 that's messed up? Yes? So, um, it seemed like from 1:33:36.439 --> 1:33:38.519 my perspective that that took a long time, but I 1:33:38.520 --> 1:33:42.640 think it was quite quick. Um. And and yeah, um 1:33:42.680 --> 1:33:46.080 really the uh, the only the only real injury is 1:33:46.120 --> 1:33:48.680 the hand, um you know, I had. I actually had 1:33:48.720 --> 1:33:52.639 a little tiny scratch on my on my shin which 1:33:52.840 --> 1:33:54.200 I still have a little bit of a mark there, 1:33:54.240 --> 1:33:57.479 but from the bear, that's correct. Yeah, what's that do 1:33:57.640 --> 1:34:00.439 through nail? You know that that half and when I 1:34:00.479 --> 1:34:03.000 tried to kick and it tried to lunge. Are you 1:34:03.120 --> 1:34:08.800 just hoping it's the bear? Could have been it's a 1:34:08.840 --> 1:34:11.840 little it's it's really just it'll be gone. And it's 1:34:12.120 --> 1:34:15.040 like it'll be gone in six months. Right, it's not 1:34:15.080 --> 1:34:17.680 really scar but I would go see if someone could 1:34:17.720 --> 1:34:21.960 help me keep that. Um so you you made it 1:34:21.960 --> 1:34:25.439 to the trailhead. I'm really curious. On the hook for 1:34:25.479 --> 1:34:31.120 the helicopter. Um so there was um the individual um 1:34:31.200 --> 1:34:34.840 that that got that needed the quick medical attention actually 1:34:34.880 --> 1:34:38.719 had helicopter insurance. Um So not necessarily on the hook, 1:34:38.800 --> 1:34:41.920 but good timing. I guess purposely get it for that 1:34:42.000 --> 1:34:43.960 hard or you had it for work. He had had 1:34:44.000 --> 1:34:47.080 it for UM some time before. So um you know, 1:34:47.280 --> 1:34:48.880 you never you never know when you're gonna need it. 1:34:48.920 --> 1:34:51.479 But it makes you wonder if I had that, do 1:34:51.520 --> 1:34:53.120 you have that without knowing it? I wonder is it 1:34:53.200 --> 1:34:55.679 like a real specific that I don't know? I think 1:34:55.880 --> 1:34:59.920 I think we we have God that was somewhere when 1:35:00.160 --> 1:35:03.720 he when you thought he was being eaten barrows on 1:35:03.800 --> 1:35:07.640 top of him. Uh, what was what? What's his perspective? 1:35:07.840 --> 1:35:11.080 What was going on? Um? His perspective was kind of 1:35:11.120 --> 1:35:15.120 like that. It was playing with him like a dog almost, Yeah, 1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:19.120 mauling his thumb. Yeah. So it stayed on his hand 1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:22.000 as it grabbed his hand, grabbed his hand and pushed 1:35:22.040 --> 1:35:25.599 him down. It stayed with his hand in his mouth. Yeah, 1:35:25.680 --> 1:35:27.640 his hand was in its mouth the whole time, in 1:35:27.680 --> 1:35:34.000 her in her mouth yeah. Um. Maybe not even plural, um, 1:35:34.040 --> 1:35:37.760 but close, you know. Um. And it's what's amazing is 1:35:38.040 --> 1:35:40.240 no claws were used, right, I mean you would think 1:35:40.320 --> 1:35:42.720 that you got the leverage. You're the bear, You got 1:35:42.720 --> 1:35:46.599 the leverage. All you gotta do is stretch the stretch 1:35:46.680 --> 1:35:48.080 the arm out with one of your claws and you 1:35:48.600 --> 1:35:51.080 I mean, who knows, she probably would have gotten to 1:35:51.160 --> 1:35:54.960 that if you hadn't a shot or sure. Um so um. 1:35:55.000 --> 1:35:57.479 So that's kind of the um. That was the first 1:35:57.600 --> 1:35:59.599 run through, and that was kind of what I had 1:35:59.720 --> 1:36:03.120 learned and and I guess um went through the first time. 1:36:03.920 --> 1:36:05.840 Then then all of a sudden, now it's kind of 1:36:05.880 --> 1:36:07.880 what you're bringing. Now, now we gotta bring the game 1:36:07.880 --> 1:36:12.000 and fish back, um to to evaluate the situation as 1:36:12.600 --> 1:36:17.200 as everyone would know and understand. And so yeah, uh 1:36:17.680 --> 1:36:22.920 this just for listeners, this is a the grizzly bear 1:36:23.160 --> 1:36:28.280 in the Rocky Mountains and lower forty eight is listed 1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:35.440 as threatened and has endangered species at protections, which means that, um, 1:36:35.560 --> 1:36:37.400 if you kill one, they're going to make sure that 1:36:37.479 --> 1:36:40.519 it was legal. And it's like obviously legal to kill 1:36:40.560 --> 1:36:43.280 one in defensive life, but they're still gonna come check 1:36:43.280 --> 1:36:46.040 it out. And I believe that's the only reason that 1:36:46.120 --> 1:36:49.360 you can kill it defensive property right or game or 1:36:49.400 --> 1:36:53.200 anything like that. So UM, so we ride in. UM 1:36:53.240 --> 1:36:57.400 there's uh, four folks from the state that come in. UM. 1:36:57.720 --> 1:37:01.080 There's a biologist, um I think kind of an apprentice. 1:37:01.160 --> 1:37:05.800 There's the game warden for that region, and then his supervisor. UM. 1:37:05.840 --> 1:37:08.040 So we ride in about six miles so it took 1:37:08.080 --> 1:37:10.960 about it was about six miles there one way. UM. 1:37:10.960 --> 1:37:13.880 So we ride in six miles UM and then I 1:37:14.160 --> 1:37:18.640 basically reenact what happened, UM, and and it was you know, 1:37:18.680 --> 1:37:21.800 pretty clear, there was blood trails and and things like that. 1:37:21.880 --> 1:37:25.479 And actually when we arrived, UM, you know, the cubs 1:37:25.479 --> 1:37:28.200 were still there. UM. So we we they have to 1:37:28.240 --> 1:37:31.600 do an investigation. So, um, we needed to remove the 1:37:31.640 --> 1:37:34.439 cubs from the from the sow in order to perform 1:37:34.479 --> 1:37:40.200 the investigation. It's in the news that they euthanize the cubs. Um. 1:37:40.320 --> 1:37:44.200 And so I go through, I kind of uh, you know, 1:37:44.280 --> 1:37:49.360 run through, reenact my position, reenact to the other individual's position, 1:37:49.520 --> 1:37:52.280 and kind of follow, you know, where the bear had 1:37:52.320 --> 1:37:55.120 come from and and gone, and you know, the whole 1:37:55.280 --> 1:37:58.040 just to kind of paint the radius for the listeners. 1:37:58.040 --> 1:38:01.280 You know. Um, it starts maybe ten or fifteen yards 1:38:01.320 --> 1:38:03.960 to to to my right and ends maybe ten or 1:38:03.960 --> 1:38:05.960 fifteen yards to my left. So the whole thing, I mean, 1:38:05.960 --> 1:38:09.080 the whole situation is a thirty yard line. I mean 1:38:09.120 --> 1:38:14.280 it's very close quarters. Um. And so I wonder above 1:38:14.360 --> 1:38:18.040 treeline again, so it's it's all clear field of view, 1:38:18.680 --> 1:38:20.960 not a lot of brush, not a lot of deadfall. 1:38:21.640 --> 1:38:25.719 There is, um, you know, where where the grizzly died 1:38:26.120 --> 1:38:28.240 was kind of the beginning of the timber line, but 1:38:28.280 --> 1:38:31.559 it was a burned area, so it's kind of uh, 1:38:31.600 --> 1:38:34.280 you know, it's easy to see, but that's where. So 1:38:34.320 --> 1:38:35.880 it was kind of a burned area. Just to paint 1:38:35.880 --> 1:38:40.439 the picture. Um, And so UM, one thing they wanted 1:38:40.520 --> 1:38:44.120 is they wanted to find some brass for the for 1:38:44.160 --> 1:38:47.679 the investigation, if you will. UM. And so I knew 1:38:47.720 --> 1:38:52.080 there were five five rounds. UM. The rifle was obviously 1:38:52.160 --> 1:38:57.479 easy one to find. UM. And UM we only found 1:38:57.600 --> 1:39:00.599 one one of the pistol rounds. But one of the 1:39:00.600 --> 1:39:03.400 the one pistol round that we found, UM was actually 1:39:03.840 --> 1:39:07.360 UM kind of covered in blood. So the casing was 1:39:07.400 --> 1:39:10.559 covered in blood, which, UM, it's kind of interesting and 1:39:10.600 --> 1:39:12.799 we can kind of I think I have some ideas 1:39:12.840 --> 1:39:17.040 of where that came from. UM. And then and then 1:39:17.320 --> 1:39:21.200 the next step in the the the investigation, if you will, 1:39:21.240 --> 1:39:24.400 is to really you know, go look at the story 1:39:24.560 --> 1:39:27.240 and then look at you know, the the evidence or 1:39:27.360 --> 1:39:32.040 or the I guess, the makeup of the bear. How 1:39:32.080 --> 1:39:37.160 long is this whole like investigation procedure taking. Are they 1:39:37.240 --> 1:39:42.000 all like detail business oriented like taking their time or um? Yeah, 1:39:42.040 --> 1:39:44.880 it's pretty thorough. Um, you know, it's obviously it's not 1:39:44.920 --> 1:39:46.920 something that happens every day. I think they mentioned that 1:39:46.920 --> 1:39:50.800 I was the fifth um that year. Um. However, it 1:39:50.880 --> 1:39:54.720 was the first bear recovered. So I don't know if 1:39:54.760 --> 1:39:57.680 that means that somebody got attacked and got away. I 1:39:57.720 --> 1:39:59.320 don't know, and I don't know if that means, you know, 1:39:59.320 --> 1:40:01.400 shot was fired to the bear. I'm not really sure 1:40:01.439 --> 1:40:04.639 what that means. But um, you know, the the ride 1:40:04.640 --> 1:40:07.719 obviously took the longest amount you know, you're twelve miles 1:40:07.800 --> 1:40:11.599 round trip, um. But the investigation, I mean it took 1:40:11.800 --> 1:40:16.120 you know, hours, um and right there, Yeah, I I 1:40:16.439 --> 1:40:19.080 assisted in that, so you know, it's kind of from 1:40:19.120 --> 1:40:22.880 my perspective, it was kind of um, you know, it 1:40:22.920 --> 1:40:24.360 was kind of neat to be a part of that, 1:40:24.600 --> 1:40:27.040 you know, because you know, you you know how it 1:40:27.040 --> 1:40:30.439 played out, right, and then so then you can see, 1:40:30.760 --> 1:40:33.760 you know, where the individual bullets landed on that, on 1:40:33.840 --> 1:40:36.479 that bear, and you can kind of then start to 1:40:36.520 --> 1:40:39.479 put the pieces together on like why did this happen? 1:40:39.600 --> 1:40:41.599 Why did it play out that way? Why did the 1:40:41.640 --> 1:40:46.160 bear um change direction and not lunge at me at 1:40:46.160 --> 1:40:49.360 that last second? Right um? And so there were some 1:40:49.400 --> 1:40:53.479 things that were really really evident, um. And so skinning 1:40:53.479 --> 1:40:56.840 out the bear, you know, I mean the first thing 1:40:56.880 --> 1:40:59.920 that was remarkable and it's obvious kind of when you 1:41:00.040 --> 1:41:03.000 say it out loud now, but the difference in damage 1:41:03.080 --> 1:41:06.400 from the three wind bag to the ten millimeter right 1:41:06.680 --> 1:41:09.360 I mean, it's a high powered rifle versus a handgun, right, 1:41:09.360 --> 1:41:12.200 so you obviously expect a lot more. But so let's 1:41:12.240 --> 1:41:15.280 let's kind of talk about the the individual bullets. Right. 1:41:15.320 --> 1:41:19.880 So the the shot with the rifle had entered um 1:41:20.000 --> 1:41:23.840 kind of upper mid but the right side of the 1:41:24.160 --> 1:41:27.639 back of the of the bear, and the exit hole 1:41:28.080 --> 1:41:31.400 was kind of out near the neck front front, right quarter, 1:41:31.640 --> 1:41:34.800 and the exit hole was quite large. UM. And so 1:41:34.840 --> 1:41:37.040 that's the first thing that you're kind of like, well, 1:41:37.040 --> 1:41:41.639 I'm glad that exit hole didn't you know, contact anybody. UM, 1:41:41.680 --> 1:41:46.920 And you know that's um. But UM. Then then we 1:41:47.000 --> 1:41:49.200 kind of started looking for more more bullet holes just 1:41:49.240 --> 1:41:51.960 to see, um, you know, play it out and so 1:41:53.400 --> 1:41:56.080 zipping out you know, more of the more of the hide. UM. 1:41:56.080 --> 1:41:59.519 There were two ten millimeter rounds that had passed UM 1:41:59.720 --> 1:42:02.759 through are the kind of like almost gut shots really UM. 1:42:02.800 --> 1:42:05.120 And you know, when you're shooting a running animal in 1:42:05.200 --> 1:42:09.880 a couple of yards, you never know, so there's a 1:42:10.080 --> 1:42:12.960 kind of it was basically a clean pass you know, 1:42:13.080 --> 1:42:15.599 kind of you know, a rear gut shot that kind 1:42:15.600 --> 1:42:17.880 of came out the other side, and then another one 1:42:17.880 --> 1:42:19.640 that kind of came out the other side, so like 1:42:19.680 --> 1:42:22.160 kind of quartering away gut shots, if you will. Two 1:42:22.160 --> 1:42:24.400 of those passed all the way through, all the way 1:42:24.400 --> 1:42:27.800 through um and what do they look like? There was 1:42:27.840 --> 1:42:32.120 a lot of trauma there or so those were using 1:42:32.120 --> 1:42:36.519 those buffalo boar rounds, which you know deep penetration and 1:42:36.600 --> 1:42:38.080 a lot of a lot of people talk about deep 1:42:38.080 --> 1:42:40.639 penetration and whatnot. And one thing in the brain, another 1:42:40.680 --> 1:42:45.639 thing in the right soft parts, right right, and so 1:42:46.160 --> 1:42:50.000 you know, originally we found those three shots, and everybody 1:42:50.040 --> 1:42:53.000 knows they're gonna punch it right between the eyes, right. 1:42:53.400 --> 1:42:55.760 I mean, when you're like getting already, you're like a 1:42:55.760 --> 1:42:57.880 long I hit him right head exactly right. And so 1:42:57.960 --> 1:43:00.120 every you know, we found those three shots originally, and 1:43:00.240 --> 1:43:02.040 you know, I kind of I was thinking of myself, 1:43:02.080 --> 1:43:04.600 there's gotta be more, right, like you know, and I 1:43:04.640 --> 1:43:07.040 know we shot five times, and so I kept carving 1:43:07.040 --> 1:43:11.879 away and I actually found another one that was almost 1:43:12.000 --> 1:43:14.880 like dead center of the back in the vertebrae, and 1:43:14.920 --> 1:43:17.920 it kind of like got lodged in the vertebrae, and 1:43:17.960 --> 1:43:19.400 like I don't know if I got tracked, you know, 1:43:19.439 --> 1:43:22.160 like there's like a hollow area there and kind of 1:43:22.160 --> 1:43:25.640 got lodged in there. I kind of thing that was 1:43:25.720 --> 1:43:27.400 the one that clammed it up, you know what I mean, 1:43:27.439 --> 1:43:32.240 almost paralyzing it the final shot there um. But you know, 1:43:32.320 --> 1:43:36.680 so so that's really um did you find the last shot? Um? 1:43:36.840 --> 1:43:39.320 You know it could have been on there um. Sometimes 1:43:39.320 --> 1:43:41.559 it's hard to see through fat when there's not a 1:43:41.560 --> 1:43:44.160 lot of trauma and you have just a bullet, you know, 1:43:44.200 --> 1:43:47.240 a bullet hole. Um, it's just you're you're searching for 1:43:47.479 --> 1:43:50.800 quite a small target and you know, we're not really 1:43:50.880 --> 1:43:52.880 caping this thing out. We're not saving a cape or 1:43:52.920 --> 1:43:55.160 anything like that. So it's not like it's a nice 1:43:55.240 --> 1:43:58.320 clean you know. And I don't get the impression with 1:43:58.400 --> 1:44:02.759 the spine shot you were like, oh, here's this massive 1:44:02.880 --> 1:44:07.400 broken spine on this bear. No, it was clearly so 1:44:07.479 --> 1:44:10.280 that one we found an entrance hole. And uh, I 1:44:10.280 --> 1:44:11.920 mean the Game of Fish had a metal detector and 1:44:11.920 --> 1:44:13.960 we're trying to like find the bullet and carve it 1:44:14.000 --> 1:44:17.200 out and whatnot. We never found anything, but um, we 1:44:17.200 --> 1:44:18.559 didn't spend a ton of time on it. We also 1:44:18.600 --> 1:44:20.719 didn't really have the right tools. They brought a melo detector, 1:44:20.800 --> 1:44:23.000 they did. You know, me and my six year old 1:44:23.040 --> 1:44:25.360 just got a melod detector. We're gonna get into that 1:44:25.400 --> 1:44:28.599 big time. I'll save that for another episode though, sure sure, 1:44:29.479 --> 1:44:35.200 um and so uh yeah. So those are the four 1:44:35.280 --> 1:44:37.400 bullet holes that we found. There could have been another 1:44:37.400 --> 1:44:39.320 one kind of in the back or in a fatty air. 1:44:39.360 --> 1:44:41.320 You know, these guys taken note of all this stuff. 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:43.719 You know, they're taking a lot of pictures and notes 1:44:43.880 --> 1:44:47.519 and collecting samples and um, doing stuff that's you know 1:44:47.720 --> 1:44:49.800 that I'm not really paying that much attention to. You 1:44:50.240 --> 1:44:53.679 gotta still be a little razzled. Is that a word? Razzle? Yeah? 1:44:54.320 --> 1:44:59.040 The same day, same day, Yeah, same day, long as day. 1:44:59.680 --> 1:45:01.479 I hapened right away in the morning. I mean it happened. 1:45:02.040 --> 1:45:04.320 I think it was like some fifteen am rolled out, 1:45:04.479 --> 1:45:06.640 rolled back in again. I'm a little surprised that they 1:45:06.680 --> 1:45:09.040 kind of put you back into that situation after going 1:45:09.520 --> 1:45:11.519 through that, I would say, they didn't put me in 1:45:11.520 --> 1:45:16.040 that situation, you know, And they weren't. I mean they 1:45:16.080 --> 1:45:18.559 are certainly actually they I got a lot of respect 1:45:18.600 --> 1:45:20.160 for the folks that we worked with. I mean they 1:45:20.200 --> 1:45:23.080 were they were very good about it and very did 1:45:23.120 --> 1:45:25.400 you professional and did you get a sense of like 1:45:25.520 --> 1:45:29.320 their attitude like oh no, not again, or like they're like, 1:45:29.920 --> 1:45:31.720 you know what kind of how they felt about the 1:45:31.720 --> 1:45:37.479 whole like grizzlies in general and probably not. But you know, 1:45:37.520 --> 1:45:39.599 I think they were real professional about it. You know, 1:45:40.439 --> 1:45:45.760 um yeah, nobody likes nobody likes um. You know, they 1:45:46.040 --> 1:45:48.840 were certainly more excited to investigate a dead bear than 1:45:48.880 --> 1:45:52.960 a dead human. You know. Their thing is it's got 1:45:52.960 --> 1:45:55.519 to set the mood when you have an injured person. 1:45:56.720 --> 1:45:59.240 Were they're not going into it like these guys panic, 1:45:59.400 --> 1:46:01.960 Sure he shot at forty yards away just because I 1:46:02.040 --> 1:46:05.040 was looking at Yeah, you got like a wounded dude, 1:46:05.400 --> 1:46:09.280 so probably you're probably going to not so much with 1:46:09.320 --> 1:46:13.920 your like, uh you know, inspector mode. Right. Yeah. I 1:46:14.479 --> 1:46:16.720 was just curious if it's like, oh, the's like if 1:46:16.760 --> 1:46:21.599 they had yeah at the trail, had did they split 1:46:21.680 --> 1:46:25.519 you guys up and get each story? Um? I mean 1:46:25.960 --> 1:46:29.000 it was such a cut and dry story, you know, 1:46:29.080 --> 1:46:30.920 like like Steve says, you know you've got a guy 1:46:31.360 --> 1:46:34.559 with with with a bite. You know, obviously you're close 1:46:34.600 --> 1:46:38.000 if you're getting bit um. I do believe they took 1:46:38.000 --> 1:46:40.080 a DNA sample of the bite to match it to 1:46:40.080 --> 1:46:48.400 the bear. Umi, a friend of mine who was a journalist. 1:46:48.439 --> 1:46:50.080 He was always when he was interviewing people who were 1:46:50.120 --> 1:46:52.920 involved and stuff like this, he was always, Um. One 1:46:52.960 --> 1:46:55.799 of the things he would look for is anytime someone 1:46:55.880 --> 1:46:59.240 said and then I proceeded to he said that that 1:46:59.280 --> 1:47:01.439 always sort of made like a little alarm and his 1:47:01.479 --> 1:47:03.960 head go off, like they had thought about what they're 1:47:03.960 --> 1:47:06.240 gonna say, ahead, it's out, and then I proceed you 1:47:06.240 --> 1:47:07.920 to do. And you said, you'd be surprised. How often 1:47:07.920 --> 1:47:09.600 do you hear that when you're hearing a story, that 1:47:09.760 --> 1:47:15.840 maybe everything doesn't add up right right? Um? So you 1:47:15.840 --> 1:47:18.600 know that that was, Um, that was kind of the investigation. 1:47:18.640 --> 1:47:21.160 So as you know, they took recording of what I 1:47:21.680 --> 1:47:24.640 you know, me going through the motions. Um. You know, 1:47:24.680 --> 1:47:28.240 the bear was kind of dissected, um, and you know 1:47:28.439 --> 1:47:30.760 each shot was kind of analyzed. Now, they took a 1:47:30.760 --> 1:47:34.639 bunch of pictures and documentation and whatnot. I didn't, um, 1:47:34.680 --> 1:47:37.000 you know, I didn't really know if that was my place, 1:47:37.520 --> 1:47:40.439 you know, per se did they impound your weapons? They 1:47:40.520 --> 1:47:44.000 keep your No, they did not, um you know it 1:47:44.520 --> 1:47:47.000 the day I'm sure impounded your bear hide right. Um. 1:47:47.760 --> 1:47:51.160 They actually kind of just destroy everything, um, you know, 1:47:51.240 --> 1:47:54.680 and yeah, I respect that. I mean, you know you're not. 1:47:54.760 --> 1:47:57.400 Oh they're taking they're taking the hide, so nobody else 1:47:57.439 --> 1:48:01.479 does you didn't? No, no, Um, you know it's pretty 1:48:01.520 --> 1:48:05.599 they're they're pretty strict about you know. Um, everything's got 1:48:05.600 --> 1:48:08.640 to be destroyed or you know, there's no there's no trophies. Right. 1:48:09.439 --> 1:48:11.200 Let me tell you a quick story. Understand, tell a 1:48:11.240 --> 1:48:14.320 quick story. In Alaska, they auction all that stuff off. 1:48:15.080 --> 1:48:18.160 So they have these like personal like bears killed for 1:48:18.320 --> 1:48:23.360 property defense, like life and property defense. Um, when you 1:48:23.439 --> 1:48:25.040 kill one, you guess sam at the hide and school 1:48:25.560 --> 1:48:28.479 and they have an auction. I know about a guy 1:48:28.680 --> 1:48:33.760 that skinned his like he did. He skinned his like 1:48:33.800 --> 1:48:37.320 the gutless method and split it up the back. I 1:48:37.320 --> 1:48:41.800 don't know why. Okay, he went to the auction. They 1:48:41.800 --> 1:48:43.920 got all these damn bears and there's only one so 1:48:43.920 --> 1:48:45.479 he can know which one to say skinned up. I 1:48:45.479 --> 1:48:47.120 don't know if he was gaming it at the time. 1:48:47.160 --> 1:48:49.000 That's just how he did because they said bring the hide, 1:48:49.680 --> 1:48:51.880 So whatever reason, he made a slip the back and 1:48:51.920 --> 1:48:54.759 somebody got to hide off the thing went to the auction. 1:48:55.760 --> 1:48:59.080 God his bear and he said he knew it because like, 1:48:59.080 --> 1:49:02.640 who else would do that? That's what I heard. I 1:49:02.680 --> 1:49:04.439 don't know the guy, but I heard the story. It 1:49:04.479 --> 1:49:05.920 could be like a live story. I don't think it's 1:49:05.920 --> 1:49:11.960 a lie story. Yeah, I do recall, um specifically the skull, right. Um. 1:49:12.000 --> 1:49:14.920 The supervisor there was and they all feel really bad 1:49:14.960 --> 1:49:17.840 about everything, you know, I mean they're they're super understanding 1:49:17.920 --> 1:49:19.760 and yeah, and he was kind of like, you know, 1:49:19.800 --> 1:49:22.000 I hate to tell you this, but I need you 1:49:22.040 --> 1:49:24.599 to to give me the skull. You know, my hands 1:49:24.600 --> 1:49:26.920 already dirty, and I'm just curious. Right, So I got 1:49:26.960 --> 1:49:28.439 it all out and scutted a lot of it out, 1:49:28.479 --> 1:49:30.640 and so I cut the head off for him and 1:49:30.680 --> 1:49:33.000 handed it to him. And they destroyed it with like 1:49:33.120 --> 1:49:36.599 hatchets or hammers or something like that, just to destroy value, 1:49:36.960 --> 1:49:40.160 just to Yeah, I mean, which, whatever did you end up? 1:49:40.880 --> 1:49:44.040 I have a problem. I understand all that. Like, sorry, 1:49:44.240 --> 1:49:47.400 you end up getting an age on the bear? Um. 1:49:47.439 --> 1:49:50.080 You know there's gonna be an official report on it. Um. 1:49:50.120 --> 1:49:51.640 You know, I'm not able to get my hands on 1:49:51.680 --> 1:49:54.800 it for for some time, but I'm I'm thinking that 1:49:54.840 --> 1:49:56.599 will all be in there, and I'm curious to read 1:49:56.640 --> 1:49:59.599 it for sure. Yeah. No, they're collecting a lot of data. 1:50:00.280 --> 1:50:06.400 Did the UM what what wound up being the relationship 1:50:06.520 --> 1:50:08.439 you have with the end of the guy that was 1:50:08.479 --> 1:50:15.160 getting his hand mauled up? M Um, like like what 1:50:15.240 --> 1:50:18.880 kind of happened when you guys had a chance to talk? Um, 1:50:19.240 --> 1:50:23.799 you know is kind of a sombering, sombering moment for everybody. 1:50:23.800 --> 1:50:27.000 You know, UM is you know is uh is once 1:50:27.040 --> 1:50:30.000 in a lifetime experience. UM. You know, I think we hope, 1:50:30.840 --> 1:50:33.680 we hope. UM, you know, we built a lot of 1:50:33.720 --> 1:50:35.400 respect for each other, you know, in the way that 1:50:35.439 --> 1:50:40.400 the situation was handled, and um as he uh was 1:50:40.479 --> 1:50:42.280 is he pretty rattled about it? Was he pretty strong 1:50:42.320 --> 1:50:44.080 about it? That he was really strong about it? I mean, 1:50:44.479 --> 1:50:47.800 Um'm not afraid of the mountains. No, no, no, you've 1:50:47.800 --> 1:50:51.240 got any different feelings about Grizzly bearer country besides some 1:50:51.520 --> 1:50:54.320 procedural ship No, UM, you know, I got a lot 1:50:54.320 --> 1:50:58.600 more respect for the animal, that's for sure. UM. I definitely, 1:51:00.479 --> 1:51:04.920 UM yeah, I definitely have a lot more respect for 1:51:04.400 --> 1:51:09.439 forum grizzly bears. And you know, my my mentality of 1:51:10.120 --> 1:51:13.920 um staying out of those situations and having different equipment 1:51:13.960 --> 1:51:19.519 and different um locations of equipment will will be will 1:51:19.560 --> 1:51:22.400 be changed where it was on the outside of my pack. 1:51:22.439 --> 1:51:25.639 Did you ever think about grabbing it? Um? Hold on 1:51:25.640 --> 1:51:28.720 like outside of the pack, like unreachable reach on the 1:51:28.720 --> 1:51:31.400 waist belt like right here? Do you ever think about 1:51:31.400 --> 1:51:38.479 grabbing it? I didn't. I mean, like in hindsight, UM, 1:51:38.800 --> 1:51:43.160 I would say at the moment, the thought process was 1:51:43.760 --> 1:51:46.200 the rifle is the job, you know, I mean it's 1:51:46.240 --> 1:51:48.320 kind of like, what are you gonna blind everybody here 1:51:48.320 --> 1:51:50.760 and hope for the best? You know. Um, I didn't 1:51:50.800 --> 1:51:53.960 spend I didn't do well much time thinking I'm gonna 1:51:53.960 --> 1:51:56.439 go after my bear spray, you know what I mean? UM, 1:51:56.640 --> 1:52:00.720 had that been sixty yards out, yeah, reolutely I think 1:52:00.920 --> 1:52:04.160 I would like to think that. I think my first 1:52:04.280 --> 1:52:07.680 choice at sixty yards out in that situation would have 1:52:07.720 --> 1:52:09.800 been bear spray. So no one what you now know? 1:52:10.280 --> 1:52:14.360 What would be your like, what's your bear protection system 1:52:14.680 --> 1:52:19.599 the next time you do it? Um? So before that incident, 1:52:19.880 --> 1:52:22.680 you know, I really I really had this UM this 1:52:23.960 --> 1:52:27.880 I'll say it false mentality that you know, if you 1:52:28.680 --> 1:52:30.240 if you shot a bear with let's say like a 1:52:30.280 --> 1:52:32.559 forty five a CP or something like that, you know, 1:52:32.840 --> 1:52:37.559 like it would realize that it's, um, it's up against 1:52:37.640 --> 1:52:39.760 a real match here, and it would probably deter it 1:52:39.760 --> 1:52:42.600 and leave after shooting it with a three windmag and 1:52:42.640 --> 1:52:49.800 watching it charge like a a very piste off animal. Um, 1:52:50.439 --> 1:52:54.719 bigger the better for if you have to shoot um first, 1:52:54.880 --> 1:52:57.160 First of all, question on that could when you guys 1:52:57.320 --> 1:53:01.759 did the netcrops see did you got it to see? 1:53:01.800 --> 1:53:05.840 When you said that the the path of that went, 1:53:05.960 --> 1:53:07.920 did it cut? Did you catch vitals on that? I 1:53:08.080 --> 1:53:12.160 personally gutted it. Um. The heart was fine, The lungs 1:53:12.200 --> 1:53:17.479 looks fine, the liver looks fine. The intestines which the 1:53:17.520 --> 1:53:20.400 bullets passed through. I never even saw split in that. 1:53:21.840 --> 1:53:24.559 So you're three hundred wind bagground went above the vitals, 1:53:24.720 --> 1:53:28.120 above the vitals. Yeah so um, so actually didn't happen. 1:53:28.360 --> 1:53:30.439 We didn't really put this all together t you know, 1:53:30.439 --> 1:53:33.200 obviously then the whole thing's done. Right now, we're the 1:53:33.400 --> 1:53:35.759 we're back in camp and we're talking about how crazy 1:53:36.080 --> 1:53:39.679 the event was, and you know a couple of takeaways there. 1:53:39.720 --> 1:53:42.680 You know, we just started talking about, um, you know, 1:53:42.760 --> 1:53:46.599 the just the odds of the to two sets of odds, 1:53:46.680 --> 1:53:49.160 right first set, you know the odds of getting in 1:53:49.160 --> 1:53:53.599 that situation incredibly unlucky to get in that situation right 1:53:54.000 --> 1:53:56.120 and and you know the only thing I could think 1:53:56.160 --> 1:53:59.760 of is the bear had winded that carcass and was 1:53:59.800 --> 1:54:02.160 made be making its way there and then got like 1:54:02.200 --> 1:54:05.960 a burst of scent, was starving, ready to eat, and 1:54:06.000 --> 1:54:08.719 just came ready to came over that tailtop, just ready 1:54:08.720 --> 1:54:12.320 to eat. Um. So it's obviously very unlucky timing. Had 1:54:12.320 --> 1:54:14.280 we sit up on that knob for ten more minutes, 1:54:14.360 --> 1:54:16.360 you might see a bit aware of it and was 1:54:16.400 --> 1:54:18.840 circling it, trying to figure off as a big board 1:54:18.960 --> 1:54:21.920 there or whatever something. You know. Um, it is hard 1:54:22.000 --> 1:54:25.720 to Um, you'll never know. You'll never know that. But 1:54:26.200 --> 1:54:31.840 obviously no stomach contents undigested help meat. Oh um, that's 1:54:31.840 --> 1:54:35.880 a great point. I did not open the stomach. Um. 1:54:35.920 --> 1:54:38.560 I don't know if anybody else there did. Did you 1:54:38.600 --> 1:54:40.880 guys ever take a look at the carcass afterward to 1:54:40.960 --> 1:54:44.360 see if it had been it hadn't been messed. No, 1:54:45.600 --> 1:54:47.480 you have like you don't have to, but you gotta 1:54:47.480 --> 1:54:53.800 be like there has been some relationship. Is the relationship 1:54:53.840 --> 1:54:56.720 that predators like to travel on ridgelines or they like 1:54:56.880 --> 1:55:01.200 to travel on nicely defined trails. You know, I would 1:55:01.280 --> 1:55:05.400 think that the you know that the bear had winded 1:55:05.440 --> 1:55:08.200 the carcass and had just been working its way that 1:55:08.240 --> 1:55:11.920 direction thinking, you know, I'm hungry, there's something here, um, 1:55:12.000 --> 1:55:13.720 and so so I really think that, you know, that's 1:55:13.760 --> 1:55:16.800 what kind of brought it to the general vicinity. Um. 1:55:16.880 --> 1:55:20.440 The tracks of the animal for the last hundred yards 1:55:20.840 --> 1:55:24.000 indicated that it knew we were there and kind of 1:55:24.040 --> 1:55:26.680 followed us along the back side of that ridge and 1:55:26.760 --> 1:55:29.000 popped over when we were when it was close and 1:55:29.040 --> 1:55:32.920 we were close. Yeah, Um, So it wasn't like we 1:55:32.960 --> 1:55:35.840 stumbled into it and it was it was defensive. You know, 1:55:36.360 --> 1:55:39.640 it seemed like it was it smelled us and was starving. 1:55:41.000 --> 1:55:44.080 A bad news organization would say when the hunter becomes 1:55:44.080 --> 1:55:49.600 the hunt. So going back to going back to what 1:55:49.600 --> 1:55:51.400 we're kind of talking about it. You know, back at camp, 1:55:51.440 --> 1:55:54.920 you know, the odds of the situation were incredibly unlucky 1:55:55.200 --> 1:55:56.560 or low and unlucky. How do you want to look 1:55:56.560 --> 1:55:59.880 at it? Then, once we were in that situation with 1:56:00.040 --> 1:56:04.440 the bear coming, you know at ten fifteen yards, I 1:56:04.480 --> 1:56:07.240 don't know another situation that plays out that ends up 1:56:07.280 --> 1:56:11.480 better than that. You know, Um, when it bears on 1:56:11.520 --> 1:56:15.320 top of somebody you know, had had you know, a 1:56:15.440 --> 1:56:17.800 shot landed a little bit differently, you know, does it. 1:56:18.800 --> 1:56:21.360 There's just a lot of different Like it's fame could 1:56:21.360 --> 1:56:23.720 have punctured his brain pan, it could have like just 1:56:24.160 --> 1:56:28.800 severed its spine with its claw. Right, there's just I 1:56:28.800 --> 1:56:31.080 mean I look at that and I think if I 1:56:31.120 --> 1:56:33.560 redid that nine out of ten times, I think nine 1:56:33.640 --> 1:56:37.760 of them are really bad. You know. Um, your friend 1:56:37.880 --> 1:56:42.480 uh said that his perspective was that the bear was 1:56:42.560 --> 1:56:46.560 playing with him. At what point did his perspective change? 1:56:46.640 --> 1:56:49.240 Did he ever talk about that? Um? I would say 1:56:49.280 --> 1:56:52.080 after that, I mean once that rifle shot went off, 1:56:52.360 --> 1:56:54.680 you know, it let up, you know, I mean, so 1:56:54.720 --> 1:56:57.800 then it kind of its focus changed, um to coming 1:56:58.000 --> 1:57:04.360 coming towards me. Um, and really, um, you know kind 1:57:04.360 --> 1:57:06.560 of kind of putting all those pieces together back at 1:57:06.600 --> 1:57:09.120 camp actually is when we kind of put it all 1:57:09.120 --> 1:57:13.160 together where um what what what I think happened was, 1:57:13.840 --> 1:57:17.760 you know, obviously incredible unlucky timing. The bear comes and 1:57:18.000 --> 1:57:21.320 not really in a hurry, not really threatened, just ready 1:57:21.360 --> 1:57:24.400 to eat, and so it's kind of taken its time, um, 1:57:24.480 --> 1:57:28.480 starts doing its job, gets hit in the back, um 1:57:28.520 --> 1:57:31.200 and kind of you know, the the rifle shot really 1:57:31.240 --> 1:57:34.400 rendered the front right useless. I mean, it just it 1:57:34.520 --> 1:57:36.720 detached a lot of those muscles right, just kind of 1:57:37.040 --> 1:57:41.200 hamburgered this area. And then it it went and turned 1:57:41.200 --> 1:57:45.600 around and charged full speed to accelerate. You know, if 1:57:45.600 --> 1:57:48.360 you kind of look at the anatomy of the animal, 1:57:48.400 --> 1:57:50.600 it's it's gonna use its high and legs to really 1:57:50.720 --> 1:57:54.040 drive and start start running. And what it seemed to 1:57:54.080 --> 1:57:57.760 me is it went to lunge there at the last second, 1:57:58.120 --> 1:58:02.400 and it went to my I left, which would would 1:58:02.400 --> 1:58:06.000 line up perfectly with its right shoulder failed, so it 1:58:06.080 --> 1:58:09.080 basically went to push off. And when it went to 1:58:09.120 --> 1:58:13.040 push off one side, you know, just pushed it that 1:58:13.080 --> 1:58:18.640 direction and it probably swiped bit I kicked. We collided 1:58:18.680 --> 1:58:22.960 in some manner, but not really hard at all, And 1:58:23.040 --> 1:58:26.760 that was the mental change of the bear for it 1:58:26.840 --> 1:58:31.200 to realize I've lost some motor skills. And then it 1:58:31.280 --> 1:58:33.840 was heading out and then it was probably trying to 1:58:33.880 --> 1:58:37.600 get into a safe zone. But you know, at that time, 1:58:37.800 --> 1:58:39.520 I didn't even know if I hit the bear, you know, 1:58:39.560 --> 1:58:41.720 I mean I think I did, but I could have 1:58:41.760 --> 1:58:43.400 shot clean over the top of it. And you know, 1:58:43.480 --> 1:58:45.680 I have no idea what's exactly going. I don't No 1:58:45.880 --> 1:58:48.000 one knows, as much as we like to talk about it, 1:58:48.080 --> 1:58:50.320 no one knows what they would do in that situation. 1:58:50.480 --> 1:58:52.920 I like to think that I would have done what 1:58:52.960 --> 1:58:57.760 you did and shot some more. Ye like the point 1:58:57.760 --> 1:58:59.760 of commitment, unless you're like one of these guys that 1:59:00.080 --> 1:59:02.360 like it's it mauled me and then it kind of 1:59:02.360 --> 1:59:03.920 wanted off, and then it came back and alled me 1:59:03.960 --> 1:59:06.920 some more. You know. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, 1:59:06.960 --> 1:59:10.560 it was just really an impulse decision. And looking back, 1:59:10.600 --> 1:59:13.400 you know, it's kind of like, well, that bear bite somebody. 1:59:14.120 --> 1:59:16.480 I think they're probably gonna take DNA sample, try and 1:59:16.480 --> 1:59:18.560 find the bear and probably put the bear down anyway. 1:59:18.920 --> 1:59:20.920 You know, I know it's been hit because why else 1:59:20.960 --> 1:59:23.400 would it not have just completely killed me right there? 1:59:23.840 --> 1:59:26.840 So you already have an injured animal, it's already known 1:59:26.880 --> 1:59:29.760 to have bite somebody. Let's just finish the job right here. 1:59:29.960 --> 1:59:31.880 You know, that was and I don't even think I 1:59:31.880 --> 1:59:34.760 went through that process. I think my process was more 1:59:34.880 --> 1:59:37.680 like I have no idea how we just came out 1:59:37.680 --> 1:59:40.960 of that, But I'm not going for around two. Yeah, 1:59:41.240 --> 1:59:47.320 how's your buddy's hands? Uh? Remarkable? Um, you know, I 1:59:47.320 --> 1:59:50.640 mean the doctor kind of mentioned, you know, it's infection 1:59:50.720 --> 1:59:53.640 that really is the problem, you know, um, And so 1:59:54.360 --> 1:59:58.520 an hour more later that becomes a much different animal. 2:00:01.080 --> 2:00:05.360 Did you notice this story for another time? But I 2:00:05.400 --> 2:00:10.839 have a very similar bear circumstance and nothing ever happened 2:00:10.880 --> 2:00:13.280 with it other than bears ran away. But it was 2:00:13.320 --> 2:00:19.280 related to a ridgeline. It was related to elk carcass Um. 2:00:19.440 --> 2:00:21.800 Did you notice One of the things that I noticed 2:00:21.880 --> 2:00:25.600 being that close to bears was the smell of him. 2:00:25.680 --> 2:00:30.920 Did you do you have any like recognition of a 2:00:31.080 --> 2:00:34.280 distinct smell of a bear, because that's something that I 2:00:34.320 --> 2:00:37.400 took away. I was like, holy cow, this the smell 2:00:37.480 --> 2:00:40.920 of a bear? Man? Was you know? I didn't um 2:00:41.320 --> 2:00:47.680 that that does not come to mind. Ums, that's not 2:00:47.760 --> 2:00:50.800 what you're thinking. Yeah, I wasn't thinking let's go smell 2:00:50.840 --> 2:00:55.560 the roses here, you know, I mean, um, you know, um, yeah, 2:00:55.720 --> 2:00:58.280 I would say that I don't recall a smell from 2:00:58.320 --> 2:01:04.400 that incident. Yeah. Well, man, I'm glad you're alive. Yeah. Yeah, 2:01:04.680 --> 2:01:07.200 give Matt millarda hug for me, I will. I will 2:01:07.320 --> 2:01:11.160 tell him, tell him that I'm glad he's alive and 2:01:11.200 --> 2:01:15.680 your body I'm glad he's doing good for sure? For sure. 2:01:16.240 --> 2:01:19.200 You know, I got one last question. For sure. It's 2:01:19.200 --> 2:01:25.120 a hard one to answer. Are you glad it happened? Um? 2:01:25.160 --> 2:01:30.160 You know that the experience obviously when it's when it's 2:01:30.240 --> 2:01:34.360 a um, when it's a good story whenever. What I 2:01:34.360 --> 2:01:37.280 mean by good is when everybody came away. Okay, you know, 2:01:37.360 --> 2:01:41.800 I mean some injuries for sure, but you know nobody 2:01:42.240 --> 2:01:46.040 nobody is you know, crippled, nobody, you know, nothing like that. 2:01:46.200 --> 2:01:50.760 And so I mean, I definitely appreciate the experience. If 2:01:50.800 --> 2:01:55.600 you told me would would you go into um, what 2:01:55.720 --> 2:02:01.320 would you go into that situation again? And um, how 2:02:01.440 --> 2:02:04.680 how do I weard this? Um? The same scenario doesn't 2:02:04.720 --> 2:02:08.400 necessarily play out, but you get to redo that situation. 2:02:08.960 --> 2:02:11.560 I would say no, absolutely no, Like I can't tell 2:02:11.560 --> 2:02:14.360 you what's gonna happen, but a bear will be on somebody. Yeah, 2:02:14.480 --> 2:02:18.440 I would absolutely not do that again, UM, because I 2:02:18.480 --> 2:02:22.400 think that the probability is so low of the outcome 2:02:22.440 --> 2:02:25.760 that we got, UM, that that is that that that 2:02:25.800 --> 2:02:28.800 wouldn't be worth it for sure, UM, you know being 2:02:28.800 --> 2:02:31.600 the problem being that you know, the the outcome that 2:02:31.640 --> 2:02:37.600 we got. UM, I can appreciate the experience for sure. Um. 2:02:37.680 --> 2:02:41.320 You know, I think one thing that you just never consider, 2:02:42.000 --> 2:02:45.200 and you know this is every bear story is unique, 2:02:45.280 --> 2:02:47.960 you know obviously, Um, but you know this one's unique 2:02:47.960 --> 2:02:50.840 for different reasons. And the one thing that you know 2:02:51.120 --> 2:02:53.360 you mentioned, everyone thinks, so I'll shoot square in the eye, 2:02:53.400 --> 2:02:55.280 you know, square in the square between the eyes, you know, 2:02:55.360 --> 2:02:58.400 And um, you know, the one thing that I never 2:02:58.440 --> 2:03:01.640 considered was not only am I not going to be 2:03:01.680 --> 2:03:06.280 able to like get a good shot, but there there'sn't 2:03:06.360 --> 2:03:10.120 there's instances out there where you can like actually not 2:03:10.440 --> 2:03:12.960 shoot the vitals, you know what I mean. Like I 2:03:13.000 --> 2:03:15.480 would have loved to put that bullet and gave that 2:03:15.520 --> 2:03:19.720 Barrett Texas heart shot and hope for you know, blow 2:03:19.720 --> 2:03:26.640 out every right. And that's um, you know that that's 2:03:27.280 --> 2:03:33.360 that really changes the game. Um, just because had you 2:03:33.400 --> 2:03:35.960 been using a much smaller caliber. For instance, let's say 2:03:35.960 --> 2:03:37.960 I did have a side arm there, I would have 2:03:38.000 --> 2:03:40.760 gone for the side arm just out of habit. And 2:03:41.080 --> 2:03:42.960 that's what you think you should do, and you could 2:03:42.960 --> 2:03:45.800 probably get more shots off and so on and so forth, 2:03:45.880 --> 2:03:47.880 but you might be pretty scratched up right now too. 2:03:48.560 --> 2:03:50.160 I mean, that side arm is not going to take 2:03:50.200 --> 2:03:54.120 that quarter out. You know, it might it made you 2:03:54.200 --> 2:03:57.760 something differently, but I don't think that. You know, the 2:03:57.800 --> 2:04:00.960 side arm is gonna turn Hamburger into a quarter of 2:04:01.000 --> 2:04:03.680 that bear and render render that part of the very useless. 2:04:04.760 --> 2:04:07.040 I wish we had these little awards, said, uh the 2:04:07.120 --> 2:04:13.160 Mediator podcast Nerve of Steel Award. Well, I'd give you one. Well, 2:04:13.200 --> 2:04:15.320 I I sure don't think you would, because you know 2:04:15.360 --> 2:04:19.000 all the listeners are gonna hear that video about steel 2:04:19.160 --> 2:04:26.720 feels like a best possible outcome certificate. Yeah, but you 2:04:26.800 --> 2:04:29.520 got the best possible outcome in the world of probabilities. 2:04:30.720 --> 2:04:33.440 That that one. That one I'll take. Um, I got 2:04:33.480 --> 2:04:35.520 a guy I work with. It always uses the line 2:04:35.520 --> 2:04:38.320 and rather be lucky than good. That's one of those, 2:04:38.360 --> 2:04:40.040 for sure. That's how you're feeling right now. That's one 2:04:40.080 --> 2:04:43.560 of those, for sure. Well, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. 2:04:43.560 --> 2:04:50.120 I appreciate it, man, very instructive. It reinforces uh, my 2:04:50.280 --> 2:04:56.680 primary theory about bear attacks having never uh is uh. Well, 2:04:56.880 --> 2:04:59.440 I think it's something like I'm quoting Joe Rogan, who 2:04:59.480 --> 2:05:02.160 is quoting so one else, which is, um, everybody's got 2:05:02.160 --> 2:05:05.280 a plan until they get punched in the face. That 2:05:06.640 --> 2:05:08.680 was that Mike Tison I was remember hearing it from him. 2:05:08.680 --> 2:05:10.840 But yeah, everybody's got planned till they get punched in 2:05:10.840 --> 2:05:15.320 the face. It's very accurate, alright man, Thanks a lot, 2:05:15.840 --> 2:05:16.400 Thanks John,