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Speaker 1: Honestly, I just want the obsessiveness to stop. Yes, of

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Speaker 1: course I want to lose the weight, and I want

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Speaker 1: to be happy in my body. I want all these

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Speaker 1: different things that are conflicting, but the obsessed. If that

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Speaker 1: could just quiet, like my mind could quiet, and I

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Speaker 1: could just stop thinking about it, that would be the

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Speaker 1: most ideal, because there are very dark days when I

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Speaker 1: can't get out of my head. Hey, everyone, welcome back

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Speaker 1: to a very special episode of On Purpose. This episode

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Speaker 1: is brought to you by better Help Online Therapy and

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Speaker 1: today I'm joined by Hess Joe, licensed marriage and family

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Speaker 1: therapist and head of clinical Operations at Better Help. And

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Speaker 1: in this new monthly series, we will be serving real

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Speaker 1: listeners of the show and you'll hear their stories, the

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Speaker 1: things they struggle with, and to get to sit in

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Speaker 1: on a real therapy session with the intention of letting

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Speaker 1: you know that you're not alone or all struggling with something,

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Speaker 1: even if we never show it. And our goal is

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Speaker 1: to bring more awareness to taking care of your mental

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Speaker 1: health and provide everyone the tools, resources and encouragement they

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Speaker 1: need to heal their past for a bright future. Now,

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Speaker 1: the reason that I wanted to do this was because

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Speaker 1: I saw so many family members who were still triggered

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Speaker 1: by therapy. Therapy is still has stigma in certain cultures

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Speaker 1: and backgrounds certain places around the world. It's not been normalized.

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Speaker 1: And I started to notice that one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: reasons was because people had never sat in a therapy session.

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Speaker 1: They were somewhat scared about it, they were somewhat apprehensive

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Speaker 1: towards it. And we can often be like that. We

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Speaker 1: can see videos of pretty much anything in the world today.

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Speaker 1: Even if you've never been to a country or you've

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Speaker 1: never done an activity, chances are you can find it

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Speaker 1: somewhere and watch it. But it's very rare to be

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Speaker 1: invited into a therapy session because they're so personal and vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I want to give us special thanks

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Speaker 1: to our very special guest today, Jamie, who's been so

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Speaker 1: kind enough to allow us into this space to allow

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Speaker 1: us to hear her story as an open book. As Airsue,

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Speaker 1: our incredible therapist, guides her through this discussion. So please

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Speaker 1: give Jamie a big, warm welcome. Jamie, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being here, Thank you for doing this as Sue, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being here, thank you for doing this, Thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me really grateful to both of you for

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Speaker 1: making time. You know, it's been a long term intention

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Speaker 1: of mine to want to help people find more tools

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Speaker 1: and resources. And the fact that we get to have

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Speaker 1: this on the podcast where anyone and everyone who's listening

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Speaker 1: or watching can get to sit in on someone else's

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Speaker 1: therapy session hopefully to find their own path is really

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Speaker 1: really important. So he's who I'm going to hand over

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Speaker 1: to you. We're in your trusted hands. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be everyone listening and watching. I'm going to be you

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Speaker 1: in this scenario. So I'm going to be observing, listening,

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Speaker 1: taking mental notes, reflecting, and then sharing my reflections at

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Speaker 1: the end as well. So ash over to you. Thank

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Speaker 1: you Jamie for coming here. And it leads me to

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Speaker 1: often the very first question that most people will hear

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Speaker 1: in the therapy room, like what brings you to therapy today?

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Speaker 1: I have, for a very long time struggled with an

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Speaker 1: eating disorder, probably since I was seven or eight. I

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Speaker 1: started to feel sort of the repercussions of a family member,

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Speaker 1: my mom being the person. It's something that I've always

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Speaker 1: struggled with, and I would say in the past two

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Speaker 1: years it got much worse. I think being in the

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Speaker 1: pandemic and the idea that we didn't see people. And

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Speaker 1: so when the world started to slowly open up, putting

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Speaker 1: on clothes got really hard, more so than you know,

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Speaker 1: what I was wearing all day every day. And so

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Speaker 1: that's one sort of depression set in a lot deeper

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Speaker 1: than it ever has been. And yeah, it's been a

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Speaker 1: hard couple of years. Yeah, I mean hard several years. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned that this disordered eating began at

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Speaker 1: seven years old. That's very young. Can you tell me

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about how you know that something

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Speaker 1: about the way you were eating was different at such

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Speaker 1: a young age. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of comments that sort of came

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Speaker 1: at me in terms of you shouldn't be eating this,

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Speaker 1: or you should be eating this. Even at seven, I

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Speaker 1: think I started to notice other people's bodies and notice

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Speaker 1: that I was developing before them. And I know that

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Speaker 1: seven years old as a young age to notice that,

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Speaker 1: but I think I just always felt bigger in some way.

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Speaker 1: And when I have this very visual memory of wearing

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Speaker 1: the same outfit as one of my close friends and

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Speaker 1: wearing a top that showed our stomachs and feeling as

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Speaker 1: if I just like I wasn't good enough within my body,

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Speaker 1: and so it's been a struggle in multiple ways since then.

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Speaker 1: Early on, you are already getting messaging of labeling of

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Speaker 1: foods this is good, this is bad, and if I

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Speaker 1: eat a bad food. I don't know if you're getting

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Speaker 1: the messaging, but I think a lot of kids start

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Speaker 1: feeling if I'm eating bad food, I'm a bad person,

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Speaker 1: and that can spiral into so many different things. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit more about the actual

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Speaker 1: eating habits that you have challenges with, Like would you

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Speaker 1: say it's under eating overeating? My eating habits are more

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Speaker 1: in sort of the Orthorrex Yeah, sort of way of eating,

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Speaker 1: which is more just like I'm very cognizant of eating

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Speaker 1: healthy or what I deem healthy and the idea that

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Speaker 1: certain foods are bad. And so I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of shame around food. And so I would say that

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Speaker 1: how many hours awake that I am throughout the day,

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Speaker 1: there is usually a time period in which I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about my next meal. Should I be eating this? I

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Speaker 1: actually really want this, but like, this isn't going to

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Speaker 1: help me get to the place that I want to

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Speaker 1: get in terms of the way that I want to look.

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Speaker 1: My mind is constantly thinking through that. But food wise,

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Speaker 1: it is really what I deem healthy. I would say

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Speaker 1: that like I don't overeat and I don't under eat.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of gone through phases, and I think in

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years as like food has become

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Speaker 1: more charged in the way of like, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: always going to be a different a diet. There's always

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Speaker 1: going to be like a different way of eating, even

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Speaker 1: if they don't deem it a diet. I've definitely kind

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Speaker 1: of come into that. Especially my background is in the

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Speaker 1: beauty industry, and so yeah, it's you know, there's always

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Speaker 1: things that I could be trying, but ultimately that's not

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Speaker 1: really good for me as someone who is working through

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Speaker 1: an eating disorder right right, so right now, wanting to

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Speaker 1: learn more about the picture of who you are here?

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Speaker 1: Do you trek what you eat? Like what kind of

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Speaker 1: ways do you monitor what you can see? Currently? No,

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Speaker 1: I don't. But what I do do is I make

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Speaker 1: a list every week of all the foods I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be eating, the meals I'm going to be making.

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Speaker 1: That's something I do every single week, and the workouts

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Speaker 1: that I'm going to be doing so that like I

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Speaker 1: don't have to think twice about something, although that's not

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Speaker 1: not always the case. I've had done a food diary,

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Speaker 1: which has been helpful in the past, but ultimately it's

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Speaker 1: really just sticking to sort of like the regiment that

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Speaker 1: I've made sort of like my own Excel doc in

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Speaker 1: I'm a virgo, so I like to make a lot

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Speaker 1: of lists, and so that really just sort of is, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of how I lay it out in terms

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Speaker 1: of the way that I function. Yeah, and you're already

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Speaker 1: familiar with orthorexy, so I imagine you've also experienced at

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Speaker 1: times like people don't recognize that this could be disordered,

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Speaker 1: right because it looks like meal prepping. I'm healthy, I'm

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Speaker 1: working out, I'm planning my life out. So at what

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Speaker 1: point do you think you you notice this is beyond

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Speaker 1: just like being healthy and mindful. I would say it

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Speaker 1: was fairly recent, especially in the last two years. And

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Speaker 1: I think with I'm on social media quite a lot

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Speaker 1: for your job, I imagine for my job, but also

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Speaker 1: I am just like I'm the person who sits there

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Speaker 1: and it's like I see something interesting and I will

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Speaker 1: click and I'll go down that rabbit hole following different

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Speaker 1: people that I see, and also with trying to bring

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Speaker 1: up more types of bodies right now, especially with body positivity,

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Speaker 1: and you know, just looking at those different types of bodies,

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Speaker 1: I sort of started to see that, like how people

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Speaker 1: were talking about their own bodies and appreciating them. I

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Speaker 1: was like, wait, but this isn't like the body that

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Speaker 1: I was shown when I was, you know, fifteen, and

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Speaker 1: the thing that I've wanted to emulate for so long.

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Speaker 1: And now other people, you know, want this type of

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Speaker 1: body that I might not have wanted in the past,

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Speaker 1: And so I started to sort of see that a

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Speaker 1: little bit. But then I also had an experience a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago where I worked with someone to

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Speaker 1: get off of add medicine and it wasn't the right

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Speaker 1: fit for me to work with this person, and it

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Speaker 1: took away a lot of different foods within that within

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Speaker 1: everything that I was eating, and it's sort of it

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Speaker 1: got a lot harder for the eating disorder and winding

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Speaker 1: off of the medication. Yeah, not that the add medication

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Speaker 1: anyway sort of made me feel different. It was more

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Speaker 1: of the idea that I was taking off grains and

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Speaker 1: all these different types of foods essentially to not have

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Speaker 1: the brain fog. And so because I was removing all

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Speaker 1: of that from my diet, I saw I was losing weight.

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Speaker 1: And when I stopped working with this person, you know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of just did my old thing, and so

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Speaker 1: that really stressed me out, where I saw myself gain

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Speaker 1: more weight and the idea of that. I knew that

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Speaker 1: I had such a strict regimen before that, I was like,

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Speaker 1: there's something not right here because like I've never eaten

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Speaker 1: unhealthy as I'm saying in quotes, you know, on my terms.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately working with this person was just the wrong fit.

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Speaker 1: It work and my eating disorder and the idea of

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Speaker 1: the orthorexia piece of that is just I think I

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Speaker 1: came to understand that, like there was something wrong here.

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Speaker 1: So when you mentioned it has gotten worse in the

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Speaker 1: past couple of years, can you say more about what

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Speaker 1: has gotten worse? Like you mentioned like you're often thinking

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Speaker 1: about food, what you're going to eat next. So when

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Speaker 1: something is so pervasive in our mind and it consumes

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Speaker 1: all of our time, that's like the one of the

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Speaker 1: first clues that it might be problematic. Well, how else

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Speaker 1: has this manifested in your life like other than just

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Speaker 1: your thoughts. You know. I find myself, especially in the

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Speaker 1: past couple of years, sitting and moving in different ways

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Speaker 1: so that I don't have to feel the different parts

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Speaker 1: of my body that I don't like, whether that's even

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Speaker 1: going to bed and lying on my side and feeling

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Speaker 1: as if something is touching me that I don't want

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Speaker 1: to actually feel and that I want to change. I

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Speaker 1: will manipulate my body so that I don't have to

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Speaker 1: feel that way. I also was wearing basically like the

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Speaker 1: same outfit every day during the pandemic, and so I

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Speaker 1: think in some way that got me to a place

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Speaker 1: that I just I couldn't put on anything else because

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to know how tight something might be.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I of course was hoping that it would

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Speaker 1: be much more loose on myself when I tried something on,

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Speaker 1: but the idea that it could be tight would send

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Speaker 1: me into a spiral and could send me straight to

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Speaker 1: my bed, where essentially I don't want to talk to anyone.

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Speaker 1: I could be crying. It really all depends on sort

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Speaker 1: of the situation. And I'll also add that I am

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Speaker 1: on antidepressants, so if I happened to wake up the

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Speaker 1: next morning before I take that antidepressant. There have been

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Speaker 1: periods of time where I won't go to take it immediately,

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Speaker 1: and I have a pretty short period I've learned from

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Speaker 1: the time that I wake up to the time that

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Speaker 1: I should be taking it where I can essentially sort

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Speaker 1: of stay and you know, this sort of like more

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Speaker 1: calm zone. And so I wouldn't go take my medication immediately,

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Speaker 1: and so it would that chemical and bounce really showed

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Speaker 1: itself and made it really hard to get out of bed.

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Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes my husband would have to pull

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Speaker 1: me out of there and tell me to take my medication,

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Speaker 1: which is exactly what I needed to do. What medication

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Speaker 1: are you taking now? So I take Vibrate and I

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Speaker 1: also take well Butron okay, And so you're taking that regularly?

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Speaker 1: And do you see a psychiatrist for this or as

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Speaker 1: a general practitioner? Yeah, I see a psychiatrist. And how

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Speaker 1: often do you see them for chickens? Every three months?

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Speaker 1: Every three months? Okay? And you're happy with the services

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Speaker 1: that you're getting there. Yeah. I have been on an

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Speaker 1: antidepressant since I was nine, So I've changed up my

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Speaker 1: antidepressants I've felt a lot of shame and stigma being

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Speaker 1: nine years old and taking it and took it maybe

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Speaker 1: like a few times a week because I just didn't

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable. I didn't understand why I took the medication.

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Speaker 1: When I was eighteen, I went through something in college

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Speaker 1: and decided to take my medication. And you know, it's

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Speaker 1: funny because all the things you know, that I worry

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Speaker 1: about with my body and the eating disorder and the

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Speaker 1: things that I want to get better, my antidepressant has

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Speaker 1: become like this light for me and is like this

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Speaker 1: thing that I appreciate so much in my life. It's

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Speaker 1: been a really important piece to sort of my recovery,

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Speaker 1: and it's really important. Yeah, with the medication you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: you've been taking it since you were a child. Have

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Speaker 1: you also been in therapy the whole time or when

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Speaker 1: did the therapy journey for you begin? So I was

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Speaker 1: put in therapy at five, which my mom claims was

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Speaker 1: play therapy. So I don't really know what that means,

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Speaker 1: but I do have this very strong visual of me

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Speaker 1: playing with toys on in a woman's office. But I

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Speaker 1: was in therapy until I was eighteen, and I hated it. Again,

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand why I was in it. My therapist

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Speaker 1: during high school is the last one that I really

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Speaker 1: remember during that time period, and just didn't click with her.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what to say, and I constantly was

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Speaker 1: being I was the one who had to talk. You know.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't much of a conversation, which I know that

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Speaker 1: in therapy it's very different for everyone and how everyone works,

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Speaker 1: but it was really uncomfortable for me, and so I

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Speaker 1: kind of swore off therapy for a really long time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's understandable. If you did not know why

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Speaker 1: you were there, it sounds like you were not there

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Speaker 1: out of your own free will, which is like a

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Speaker 1: huge component of going into this process is like identifying

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Speaker 1: what it is that you want to work on. And

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Speaker 1: I was complicated with kids, Like kids are going to

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Speaker 1: be put into therapy because their parents or their teachers

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Speaker 1: are recognizing some kind of behavioral issue. Yeah, but as

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Speaker 1: you mentioned and like put so well, a five year

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Speaker 1: old is going to have a really hard time understanding

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Speaker 1: like why they're even coming here if they can't have fun.

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Speaker 1: That's great, Like therapy is a thing. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I mean you touched on not knowing why you're there.

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Speaker 1: If there's no rationale that was provided, Can you tell

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Speaker 1: me a bit more about what else you hated about it?

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Speaker 1: That the therapy that you hated. It's funny because my

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Speaker 1: mom would say that they would tell me things that

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to hear, and so that's why I

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Speaker 1: hated it, which I think is just like that's the

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Speaker 1: whole gist of therapy. That's really why I hated it,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't want to be told the things that

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Speaker 1: I didn't even really understand about myself. I mean, of

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Speaker 1: course I understand that now. I asked my mom a

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Speaker 1: few years ago, like why was I in therapy so young?

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Speaker 1: Why did you put me on an antidepressant? And she

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Speaker 1: never really has a clear answer, and I do want

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Speaker 1: to call of yacht that. Like, I am very close

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Speaker 1: with my mom and she's super supportive. You know, she

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Speaker 1: just did things I didn't understand. And I've come to

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Speaker 1: kind of learn that I always really wanted attention. And

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Speaker 1: I think that maybe my parents teachers at school just

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Speaker 1: like already always sort of like saw that as like

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Speaker 1: acting out. I've always wanted attention also for my body.

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Speaker 1: I wanted people to praise my body. To tell me that, like, wow,

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Speaker 1: you've flustrated or whow like you look so you look

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Speaker 1: so great in those genes, like what have you done?

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Speaker 1: And I've never really gotten that. The only person I

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Speaker 1: did get it from was my mom, and it was

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Speaker 1: the one person I never wanted to hear it from.

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Speaker 1: And I still feel that way. Yeah, I don't even

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Speaker 1: know if I answered your question. I think I got

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Speaker 1: far from that. Yeah, I'm trying to get a sense of,

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Speaker 1: like what about your past therapy experiences that you really

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Speaker 1: didn't like? And moving on from that, it's like, what

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Speaker 1: from these past experiences in therapy can you recall enjoying?

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Speaker 1: Like were there pieces and components they did? Like in

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Speaker 1: college when I started to take my antidepressant and sort

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Speaker 1: of realized that I needed it, I also went to

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Speaker 1: a therapist that happened to be like part of my

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Speaker 1: college at the time, and I saw not recommended by

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Speaker 1: your mom. She probably told me to see a therapist,

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Speaker 1: but she didn't have to say and who it was.

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Speaker 1: And I saw this woman and I remember really liking

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Speaker 1: her and also remembering coming back and that she couldn't

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Speaker 1: be my therapist the next semester. I think it was

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Speaker 1: because it felt more of a conversation. She was asking

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Speaker 1: questions versus me constantly being like, this is what happened

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Speaker 1: today or this is what's been going on in my life.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think that I could articulate that as

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Speaker 1: a kid. I think I still want that conversation in

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Speaker 1: a therapy session. I don't think I would so much

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Speaker 1: want you know, it would just to be me. But

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Speaker 1: I think it would be a lot easier now, just

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Speaker 1: as I've grown as a person and sort of like

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Speaker 1: know the different things about me that obviously I didn't

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Speaker 1: know then. So now when you're entering therapy, something that

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Speaker 1: is important to you is to be able to be

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Speaker 1: involved in the conversation, to have a voice in what

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Speaker 1: your goals are and what you're working on, and even

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Speaker 1: just having some structure and guidance from the therapist to

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Speaker 1: like move towards something versus just like, what do you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about today right now? What would you

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Speaker 1: say are your main focuses and goals? Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's really getting to a place where I can feel

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Speaker 1: good in my body. And I know that that. I've

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Speaker 1: always said that I don't know if that will ever come.

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Speaker 1: And they're days where that's even more charged than you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying that now is like I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he'll ever come, but there are days where I'm like

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Speaker 1: it will actually never come. And so I want to

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Speaker 1: be able to be comfortable in the body that I

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Speaker 1: have in that moment, to not feel as if, like

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Speaker 1: you know, things feel really hard. Eating feels really hard,

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Speaker 1: even though I'll i'll happily eat and I do enjoy food,

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Speaker 1: and even saying that, it's like hard for me to say,

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Speaker 1: I like get uncomfortable saying that because of the way

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Speaker 1: that I feel about my body and the idea that like,

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Speaker 1: I want to look a certain way. And so ultimately

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Speaker 1: it's just like being okay, because the amount of space

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Speaker 1: that food and my body takes up is pretty terrifying.

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Speaker 1: Is it ever debilitating? Yeah? Right, like consuming all of

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Speaker 1: your mental energy. Would you say that, like thinking about food,

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Speaker 1: planning food, avoiding food. Has this gotten in the way

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Speaker 1: of relationships or performance at work? So I would say, so,

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Speaker 1: I'm married, and I definitely we have a great relationship

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Speaker 1: and he's very supportive and sort of anything that I

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Speaker 1: want to do, But ultimately, yeah, it can get in

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Speaker 1: the way and I would even say that it gets

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Speaker 1: in the way of libido. Granted, I am on antidepressants,

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Speaker 1: and I know that that libido and antidepressants is, you know,

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Speaker 1: not a great mix or it doesn't mix. But ultimately,

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Speaker 1: if I don't feel good in my body, like I

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Speaker 1: don't want anyone to touch me, and I would say that, like,

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Speaker 1: I have a very hard time being intimate in any

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Speaker 1: way because I don't even want to feel my own body,

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Speaker 1: So being touched is uncomfortable, even though it's coming from

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Speaker 1: a supportive place. And I'm working on that. And it's

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Speaker 1: really hard when you have someone who cares so much

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Speaker 1: about out you and loves you the way you are.

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Speaker 1: But even if he says that I'm beautiful or I

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00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 1: look great, like I can't. I can't take the compliment.

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Speaker 1: I can't take it. You don't see it yourself, you

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00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,959
Speaker 1: don't believe it. And you know we've all heard that

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Speaker 1: phrase of like, I wish you could see yourself the

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00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 1: way that I see you, and it sounds like that's

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Speaker 1: the way that you're loving and doting partner is Can

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Speaker 1: you tell me about the relationship between body image and

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Speaker 1: self worth. Yeah, I don't feel as if I'm worth

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things in my life, you know.

385
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Speaker 1: I actually so something that I do is and this

386
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: has only been in probably the last six months, is

387
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Speaker 1: on my Instagram. I've been doing these stream of consciousness posts.

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Speaker 1: I've never been a journaler. I'm a writer, so I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that has anything to do with it,

390
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: But all of a sudden I started to kind of

391
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 1: these certain memories sort of started to come up. And

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Speaker 1: so when that would come up, I would go to

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Speaker 1: my notes and just like quickly write down a paragraph

394
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: of sort of the different things that are on my

395
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Speaker 1: mind in terms of my eating disorder, and you asking

396
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 1: about self worth. That's why I'm bringing this up is

397
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: that I wrote a post recently saying that if I

398
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: just was thinner, I'd have more clients if I just

399
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: were thinner, you know, so on and so forth, and

400
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: so my self worth is pretty depleted because I rely

401
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: so much on my body to do a lot of

402
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: the work in terms of making me feel better about

403
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. You have this thing that comes up

404
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: of if I achieve a particular body type, then I

405
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: would just all these negative feelings will go away. I'll

406
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: feel better about myself. I'll learn how to be happy

407
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 1: with who I am, Like where do those scripts come from?

408
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 1: For what is the ideal body type? Can you say

409
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: more about, like what is your prototype? Like where does

410
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: that come from? I mean, I think it comes from

411
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: my mom, and I would say that's a big part

412
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: of that. Although she's told me for a really long

413
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Speaker 1: time that I can't blame her anymore. I haven't lived

414
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: with her for years. But I don't know where else

415
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: it comes from, to be honest, But it's always stuck

416
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: with me, Like I have different visuals and sort of

417
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: memories of like being a kid, and you know, whether

418
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: I'm like trying on a friend's jeans and the idea

419
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: that they don't fit me. So like little things like

420
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 1: that that would be an interesting exploration I think for

421
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: us to continue at some point, you know, it's just

422
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: like figuring out where this prototype comes from, to dissect it,

423
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: because then once you really understand it, I think it

424
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: makes it a little bit more achievable to start letting

425
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,719
Speaker 1: it go, to start on learning that so you can

426
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: relearn and recompose a different ideal body, which might be

427
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 1: the one that you're in right now. I think it's

428
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: fair to want to achieve certain things, whether that's increased strength,

429
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: better balance, more staminum, more endurance. Having personal goals are important,

430
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: so I think it's good for you to think about

431
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 1: like goals that are separate from I want to lose

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Speaker 1: eight pounds. It's not really about the weight. It's I

433
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: want to be able to go up these stairs and

434
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: not get winded. For you, it is I'm hearing a

435
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: lot about body image, not so much about like fitness,

436
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,479
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah? I mean I'm I work out

437
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: five to six times a week, and so I've come

438
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: to learn that like the working out piece is the

439
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: consistent part. And also working out sometimes I'll I can

440
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: you know that can stress me out too. If I

441
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: see something on my body that I don't like that,

442
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: I almost I want to stop working out. I want

443
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: to quit, but I keep moving through it. So I'm

444
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: usually working out for I'm not. I always say that

445
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: like I work out because I think it mentally makes

446
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: me feel better, but honestly, like it doesn't really help

447
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: with my stress, doesn't help with like my depression. It's

448
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: just something that I know I need to do to

449
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: have a better day. But ultimately, like all the other

450
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: things are still going to bother me. But I always

451
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: think about food as being the thing that, like that

452
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: is what's going to make a difference, and that that's

453
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: come pretty recently knowing that, like the food is going

454
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: to be the thing that's going to be the difference.

455
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: It's not that like, you know, the thirty minutes that

456
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: I worked out on Monday, I should have done an hour,

457
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 1: and that I felt that differently in the past, but

458
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,479
Speaker 1: those things have changed a little bit. Something that I

459
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: think would be interesting for both of us is like,

460
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: as we continue forward and have more conversations redefining goals. Right,

461
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: it sounds like everything when it comes to food, when

462
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: it comes to your exercise routine and training your body,

463
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: it's it's all comes back to how you look. So

464
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: my hope and sense is that someday you'd like to

465
00:24:53,280 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: also incorporate goals around health. Yeah, and you know I

466
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: write about that. I mean I just wrote an article

467
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: about metabolic health. You know, like these are things that

468
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm researching and looking into all day long, and some

469
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: of those things are things that I might want to try,

470
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: but I also know that like these types of things,

471
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: like you know, talking about a glucose monitor that like

472
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: that would probably be might be dangerous for me at

473
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 1: this point, and I might have not realized that, you know,

474
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. It might have been something

475
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: that I just sort of like did immediately. And not

476
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: to say that a glucose monitor is dangerous. I think

477
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: they can be really helpful for people. But for me

478
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: as someone who was already like looking at thinking about

479
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: what I'm eating at all times, and the idea that

480
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: I'd have to check back into something and be like

481
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: more accountable than maybe I am sometimes that it's just

482
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: there's it could be more stressful, right You're I mean,

483
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: you're you're describing not wanting to become more obsessive about

484
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: this thing that's already kind of impacting in negative way

485
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: a lot of areas of your life. And also there's

486
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: like a theme emerging here. There's a lot of conflicting

487
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: things in your life. There's like a career that's really

488
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: like in the world of body positivity, but you yourself

489
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: are not feeling like that per se, even the stuff

490
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: that you're writing for work. I think people might have

491
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: a different perception of the person that writes this one.

492
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: They're reading it right, It's like maybe a persona almost

493
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: it's not quite who I'm seeing here. It's not a

494
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: first person piece, so they probably don't, you know, they're

495
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: not necessarily focused on the person who's writing it so much. So,

496
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 1: you know something that you said about the obsessiveness of

497
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: sort of the eating, and also how we were talking

498
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: about how like I want to feel good in my body,

499
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: but I also want to like lose the weight, you know,

500
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: that type of thing. I think, honestly, I just want

501
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: the obsessiveness to stop. Yes, of course I want to

502
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: lose the weight, and I want to be happy in

503
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: my body. I want all these different things that are conflicting,

504
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: but the obsessive If that could just quiet, like my

505
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: mind could quiet and I could just stop thinking about it,

506
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: that would be the most idea, because there are very

507
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: dark days when I can't get out of my head. Yeah,

508
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: so that's our goal, kind of zeroing in on this

509
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: thing that has taken over your mind space. And then

510
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: you know, as we work on those kinds of things,

511
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: other stuff begins to unfold. And I really really appreciate

512
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: you being so open and answering all these questions so honestly,

513
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: because I think it helped us identify something here, which

514
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: is what you really want first, is to address the obsessiveness. Yeah,

515
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 1: racing thoughts, the rumination, the dwelling, you know, totally. And

516
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: I think as someone who's like pretty you know, doing

517
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: those Instagram posts and you know, I actually I talk

518
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: about people about their own mental health day as I

519
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: have my own mental health platform. It's something that I

520
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: created with my husband because we wanted to be able

521
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: to tell other people's stories to make them not feel

522
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: so alone. And it's funny to think that they're not funny,

523
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 1: but it's you know, I struggle so much and I

524
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: think that the idea that I have these conversations with

525
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: people has helped me to feel not so alone. But yeah,

526
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: ultimately it's it's just my don't I don't really know

527
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: how I do all my other work because my brain

528
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: is constantly thinking about my body. Yeah, so not funny,

529
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: probably some irony, right, yes soon, Jamie. Thank you so

530
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: much for that, Jamie, thank you for being so honest

531
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: and open and you know, really letting us in. I

532
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: think I was, of course listening as all of our

533
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: listeners and viewers, and you know, hearing someone who's so

534
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: open allows me to have the same reflections about the

535
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: voice that's in my head. I think you articulated so

536
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: many things so effectively and so wonderfully genuinely that allowed

537
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: me to articulate certain experiences and emotions that I have

538
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: about some similar things that you've raised. That's only possible

539
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: because you were willing to go there, and I'm hoping

540
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: that everyone has been listening and watching. I can definitely

541
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: say that I think you've helped a lot of people

542
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: today because you've just shown us the breadth of the

543
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: human mind, where it can go, what it can experience,

544
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: and because you've been doing that work to understand yourself,

545
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: all of us who may not have the words or

546
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: the voice to kind of piece them together, we're hearing

547
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: that through you. I know. I definitely was so thank

548
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: you for that. Personally, I want to help unpack a

549
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: little bit of what we've done today because you've both

550
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: met for the first time today as who had no

551
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: background on you, Jamie, and you had no background as well,

552
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: so this has been a real genuine interaction and conversation

553
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: of real discovery. Jamie, how long have you been going

554
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: to therapy for at the moment or as in not

555
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: since the days you didn't enjoy going, but more recently

556
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: the past six months. Okay, so it's been six months

557
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: since that time from five to eighteen that you didn't

558
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: enjoy therapy to reconnect. There was a couple of like

559
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: short like two month period where I've two month period

560
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: long sort of therapy. I would try someone new and

561
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, this isn't good, and then it would

562
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: might be like four years and I would do it again.

563
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: So I would say, in between sort of like eighteen

564
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: until now, there might have been like three different therapists

565
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: that I saw for like a month or two, and

566
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: now you're in this six month commitment phase. It sounds

567
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: like with a bit more It sounds like a bit

568
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: more regularity and consistency. What has brought you to that now?

569
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: And what benefits are you seeing from the last six months? Yeah,

570
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: I what brought me to it was that it was

571
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: getting harder to get out of bed. I guess I

572
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: don't even know if I know, like the quite the

573
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: meaning of this term, because I don't think I had

574
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: suicide ideation, but the I would lay in bed and

575
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: think that, like, I don't think I need to be here.

576
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: I'm so unhappy with how I feel and how I look.

577
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just not meant to be here. And so

578
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: my husband had been telling me to go see a

579
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: therapist for a while, and I think maybe the last

580
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: time that I thought about sort of the idea of

581
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: me not being here was when I said, Okay, I'll

582
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: look for someone. And it wasn't you know, the next

583
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: day I went and like found someone. It was kind

584
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: of like a little bit of a lull, trying to

585
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: find someone that also could specialize in eating disorders, which

586
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: I had never had. I don't exactly know what my

587
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: therapist was when I was in high school, but you know,

588
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: it was kind of just talking about like everything that

589
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: was going on in my life. So that's where I've

590
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: been focused on the last six months. Yeah, And would

591
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: you say there've been any any skills that you've developed

592
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: over that six months or anything you feel that you

593
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: mark is progress for yourself. Sort Of talking to her

594
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: in the person that I'm seeing in this ongoing basis

595
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: has allowed me to find a couple of coping skills.

596
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: It's not something that like it it's so hard and

597
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: set that I'm like, okay, I need to do, but

598
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: a lot of breathing helps and not even like I'm

599
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: not talking breathwork. I'm just talking about like talking to

600
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: myself saying like, Okay, I need to walk away from

601
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: this or I have to go finish this thing. That

602
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: was something that I had to do a lot of

603
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: when I was just on vacation a couple of weeks ago,

604
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: because it was the first time I had worn a

605
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: bathing suit in a long time, and warn different things

606
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: that I hadn't worn in the past year or so,

607
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 1: and so I had I was really scared to go

608
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: on that vacation, as exciting as it was, because I

609
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: didn't want my stress and anxiety and panic to get

610
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: in the way of my husband and I having a

611
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: good time. And I was able to get through that.

612
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that, and as well for you,

613
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: like when just to give people a bit of an

614
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: insight when you're meeting a new prospective client or someone

615
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: that you're having a conversation within this situation, what are

616
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: you trying to do? Like what is your process? Because

617
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: I think just for you know, obviously here we have

618
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: Jamie who's very happy to be open, and she's been

619
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: so kind and letting us in a lot of people

620
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: who may be listening and watching maybe just like, well,

621
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: how do I be so open with a stranger and

622
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: like I don't know if I feel comfortable and just

623
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: to let them in a bit to your process? What

624
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: are you trying to do? Of course, I think you're

625
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: you have a you know, a wonderful skill at making

626
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: someone feel comfortable and not being invasive. You are very

627
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: protective of someone's safety and how far they want to go.

628
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: But could you help us understand a bit more of that? Yeah,

629
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: great question, I think you know. Initially, the big thing

630
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: for many therapists, if not most, I hope all is

631
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: to build rapport. It's like it's part of our textbook

632
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: training is like, if this person doesn't feel safe, it's

633
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: not about them trusting you as an individual, it's do

634
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: they feel safe in this room? Do they feel an

635
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: absence of danger from you? Like? These are big things

636
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: for me. So you know there are techniques, right, It's

637
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: like about the loudness of your voice, like mirroring your

638
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: client's body language, just kind of being really in tune

639
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: with how quickly they're breathing, so a lot of nonverbal cues.

640
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: So initially it's very much about listening to understand versus

641
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: listening to respond, which is what we all do in conversation, right,

642
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: we're just wanting to make sure we're like keeping up

643
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. But for me, it's it's really

644
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: wanting to understand, start to paint a picture of who

645
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: you are, not just this person sitting in front of me,

646
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: but the kid that exist that grew up into who

647
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: you are now, and the parents that raised this person

648
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: and all these dynamics. So, of course we didn't have

649
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: like a full session today, and normally in my assessment process,

650
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,479
Speaker 1: when I'm first getting to know a client, I'm trying

651
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: to get as much info about family dynamics if you

652
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: weren't raised by your biological parents, and then finding a

653
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: little bit more about what that situation looked like. And

654
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: that's because of my approach as a therapist. It is

655
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: important for me to kind of start poking around childhood.

656
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: And I always ask my clients are you comfortable with this?

657
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: Because some clients don't want to go there, and it's

658
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: not necessary. You don't have to go there to start

659
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: learning some real skills to start coping with today's challenges.

660
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: But when my clients do let me in there, I'll

661
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: definitely want to go down that rabbit hole because there's

662
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: just so much stuff that happened to us as children

663
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: that we didn't understand at the time, meaning we've probably

664
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: still don't understand it now. So having a space now

665
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: to process it connect it with our current emotions and

666
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: relationship styles, the ways that what you attach with other people,

667
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: that becomes very important to me. There's something that therapists

668
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: do that I'm sure everybody's aware of if they've been

669
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: in therapy is paraphrasing. Is saying back to you essentially

670
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: what you just said, maybe rewording it a little bit

671
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: and maybe adding like a little bit of my own

672
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: insight here and there. And this creates the experience of like,

673
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: she really heard me. You know, she's not putting her

674
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: own stuff into this. She just wants to continue hearing

675
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: me and seeing me. And that's definitely a big intention

676
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: of mine, is I want this person to feel validated,

677
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: if you know, sometimes that might be the first time

678
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: somebody's really felt seen in that way. My hope always

679
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: for a new client and even more seasoned clients, like

680
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: more established clients, is that they know that when they

681
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: come to see me, it's always still going to be

682
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: about them. I'm not ever going to flip the conversation

683
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: to make it about me. And you know, therapists sometimes

684
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: use something called self disclosure, which is just like giving

685
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: you some nuggets about who I am, and you have

686
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: to be really intentional about doing that, and it's very

687
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: clear even if the client can't articulate what's going on

688
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: when a therapist is like overly using self disclosure for

689
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: reasons that aren't very productive or leading to anything good

690
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: for the client. Clients know that they can feel it

691
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: something about the session doesn't feel right. When they leave,

692
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: they don't feel as satisfied. So it's like some of

693
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: the initial problems very useful. Yeah, I think those are

694
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: really useful insights for people to be aware of what

695
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: it feels like, what it looks like, why someone is

696
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: doing that. Like you said, it may feel strange in

697
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: your first session, is like why does this person repeating

698
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? But there's a reason for it, you know,

699
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: there's a reason to try and listening. I want to

700
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: ask you both one last question and of course happy

701
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: for you to share anything that's on your heart own mind, Jemmy,

702
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: for you, as someone who's had you know a variety

703
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: of different therapy experiences without choice, now which choice? Even

704
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: the idea of people often refer to the idea of

705
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: dating is like finding a therapist. Like you're kind of like, oh,

706
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: two months, okay, nope, okay, yeah, right, what would you

707
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: say as some things that were important to you or

708
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: that if people are listening and watching and they're in

709
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,479
Speaker 1: that process, that you could say, here, these are things

710
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: that worked for me, These are things that I was

711
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 1: looking for. If there were three things that were very

712
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: important that helped you find someone that you now are

713
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: consistently seeing for six months, specialty was really important, and

714
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: I would say that there are a lot. It is

715
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: harder to filter eating disorders, is what I've noticed in

716
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: my experience of looking for someone. So getting as specific

717
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: as possible if that's what you're needing therapy for, depending

718
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: on where you're what you're going, what you're doing. But yeah,

719
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 1: that specialty was really important to me before I found

720
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: the therapist. When I'm seeing now, I spoke to someone

721
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: else and so and it was necessary to kind of

722
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: go through that process of talking to someone and realizing

723
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: this isn't you know she was like a little too

724
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: soft spoken for me and sort of also understanding what

725
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: I need from like a conversation sort of perspective, is

726
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 1: that I need someone who will also you know, talk

727
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: back to me, give me the advice, versus say like

728
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: what's on your mind today? And so I've kind of

729
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: was taking notes as I was going through the process

730
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: of finding a therapist that like, I really like it

731
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: when she gives me this feedback, and that was really important.

732
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: And that was something that absolutely didn't happen from you know,

733
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: being a kid until I was eighteen and having those

734
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: discussions with my therapist. Then, Yeah, that's great. I find

735
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: that really useful. I even think even making someone aware

736
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: of that is so useful her. So is there anything

737
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: that clients make you aware of, any questions they ask

738
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: you that you think actually improves a relationship. If if

739
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: there are people today who are like, oh wow, I

740
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: need to go and find a therapist, been really inspired

741
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: by this conversation, what are some of the things you,

742
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: as a therapist would say, Hey, please ask your therapist

743
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: this question or please let your therapists know this that

744
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: actually could speed up that opportunity to finding the right person.

745
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: What a great question. And at some point I did

746
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: ask you, like, were there things about your previous therapy

747
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: experiences that you liked? Because I was trying to get

748
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: to that. I was trying to get at what can

749
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: I take from what you've done before and keep doing

750
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: the good stuff? Like take the good stuff, keep doing that.

751
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: So it is greatly appreciated I think by many therapists

752
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: when clients come prepared with those questions, like initially you

753
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: should interview your therapists like you're hiring them, and ultimately

754
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: you can also fire them, like that's what happens when

755
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: you decide you don't want to work with them anymore.

756
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: I think finding a specialist is also extremely important because, Yeah,

757
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: because someone can be really really good at working with

758
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: clients with anxiety and workplace stress, but if they have

759
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: someone coming to them with concerns around orthorexia, that's going

760
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: to be very challenging for the therapist because they're not

761
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 1: well educated or trained. Yeah, you know, somebody that specializes

762
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: means they're going to additional trainings, they may have gotten

763
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: certified in something they've began supervision or consultation with, like

764
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: somebody that's also master in this kind of world, which

765
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: just means they've worked in it so long that they

766
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: identify recognize patterns of behavior in a particular group of people.

767
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 1: And so from there you can start thinking about really

768
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: specific coping skills, specific ways to help people build those

769
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: skills to help cope with life, because somebody that's like

770
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: really good at getting you to think about how to

771
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: cope with workplace stress is not really going to understand, Like,

772
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: but you're meal prepping. That's a good thing, right, you know,

773
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: So it's okay for clients to ask all their questions

774
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,479
Speaker 1: about the therapist and come to the conclusion that they're

775
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: not the right person, because that's what the therapist too.

776
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: We have a code of ethics to keep the public safe,

777
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: and one of those pieces is you are not to

778
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: work with clients that are outside of your scope of competence.

779
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: Right Like, if I have zero training, exposure and understanding

780
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: of any eating disorders, it would be a disservice to

781
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: you to try to work with you through this thing

782
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: that I don't really know much about. I didn't say

783
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: a specific question, but clients, please feel you know that

784
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: you have the permission. Of course, you should be asking

785
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: questions and interviewing this person to see if they're a

786
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: good fit for you. Yeah. Yeah, I actually think that's

787
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: a really great piece of feedback because often people think

788
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: if therapist is their authority, and so there's a sense

789
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: of like, oh, no, this person is going to tell me.

790
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: But actually, in the beginning, before you being guided, there

791
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: is this interview process of making sure the person's compatible

792
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: and yeah and right for you. And it took me

793
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: a long time to get there, That's what I mean. Yeah, Like,

794
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm in my thirties now, and you know, the last

795
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: time I saw someone for like two months at a time,

796
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: I was in my twenties and definitely didn't ask any question.

797
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: I just was kind of like, all right, I'm just

798
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: going to go in and I'll hear what this person

799
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: has to say. But yeah, that was a learned skill

800
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. Are there any final words that either

801
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 1: if you want to share with our community or audience

802
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: today or each other, Because I'm feeling extremely grateful for

803
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: this opportunity, Jamie. You've led us in and I'm hoping

804
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: that this conversation has been useful to you in moving

805
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: you forward toward your goals. I'm obviously hoping that this

806
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: relationship continues. You know, has who I think You've been

807
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: so kind as well and generous with your time to

808
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: truly sit with Jamie and help guide this discussion as

809
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: well and your insights towards the end. There, but any

810
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: last few words from either of you, I would just

811
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: say that you know, like I think, the reason that

812
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: I've become because I know that it's it's not easy

813
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: to talk to a therapist or talk to anyone about

814
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: your mental health and what's going on. And well I said,

815
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: I've always been an open book and really vulnerable. It's

816
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: only been the past couple of years that I've openly

817
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: talked about sort of my antidepressant or my eating disorder.

818
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: And ultimately, I just want to say that I do

819
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: that because I want to help people feel not so alone.

820
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: And that's also why, like I said, I had started

821
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: and Repete with my husband, our mental health platform. But

822
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: the thing is is I'm going through it as I'm

823
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,919
Speaker 1: talking to all these people. So thank you and thank

824
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: you for both having me. Now you're definitely helping people

825
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: not feel alone, and your vulnerability is definitely helping this community.

826
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: So thank you so much. All the more, thank you,

827
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, because you know therapists for years

828
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: decades have been wondering how to solve this problem of

829
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: how do we get more people to understand that this

830
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: is something that anybody can benefit from. And it's really

831
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: like this boom in the past like five years or

832
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: so where it's becoming a bit more normalized to talk

833
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: about mental health, and that convers station is only going

834
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: to keep propelling in that direction because of people like you,

835
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: because of people that are willing to speak on these

836
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: things and be so open and vulnerable. So I am

837
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: very grateful to you. You can have a whole thousands

838
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: of therapists saying go to therapy, go therapy, but it

839
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 1: is not as powerful as a real, live person who's

840
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: not a therapist talking about the benefits that they've had.

841
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate you and your time too. Yeah,

842
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: I want to thank everyone who's been listening and watching

843
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: wherever you are in the world. And I'm hoping that

844
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: this conversation, this live therapy session that you got to

845
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: watch has encouraged you, maybe taken away some of those barriers,

846
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: taken away some of those boundaries that you've created towards

847
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: therapy and made them easy a few to cross, or

848
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: maybe sharing this with a friend or family member who

849
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 1: may have barriers or boundaries of their own, and they

850
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: can see how each and every one of us can

851
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: share our space, our time, our energy and learn a

852
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: bit more about ourselves. And even if that's all we

853
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: achieve from that time, how powerful it can be in

854
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: this journey of life. And so I want to remind

855
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: everyone to keep coming back for these episodes where we

856
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: will be diving into a live therapy session so that

857
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: you can get that insight. And these episodes are brought

858
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: to you by Better Help that are helping millions of

859
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 1: people by making professional therapy more affordable and accessible than ever.

860
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: So to see my top reasons why you should try

861
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: online therapy, visit betterhelp dot com forward slash Jay's top

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00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: three that's better at LP dot com Forward slash Jays

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00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: TP three And when you do that, we're giving away

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00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: ten percent off your first month of online therapy when

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00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: you sign up. So I encourage you all to do

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00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: that or encourage you to recommend it to a friend,

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00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: and remember you deserve to invest in yourself and Better

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00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: Help is a great way to start to do that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you everyone, Thank you here soon, Thank you Jamie

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00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: again did