WEBVTT - I Choose … to Be Awake! with Jen Hatmaker (pt 2) 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:08.960 You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garl. Welcome 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.200 back to I Choose Me. I've been talking to Jen 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:15.880 hat Maker about her new book Awake, and she's got 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.599 some pretty amazing nuggets to share, some wisdoms for us. 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:21.119 Congratulations. 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:25.080 Jen. First of all, you have broken a generational cycle 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.080 for not just yourself, but for your kids, for your grandson. 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.640 They are awake because of you, and they are no 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:36.400 longer locked in to someone else's rules of how they 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.159 should live their lives. Those are the same rules that 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.519 you grew up with. The purity culture, the gender norms 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.640 a shame. So you're just an inspiration. You're a modern 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.239 day role model to not only women in your community 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:52.920 but your children. 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.880 And I know you're probably exhausted. 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:58.480 That is such a nice thing to say. 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.000 I acknowledge you're exhausted because it's hard. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:01.640 It's a lot. 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.640 Yeah, but I'm going to ask more of you. I thought, 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.440 since you've had this awakening, it would be really great 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:12.360 for us to provide a sort of little toolkit, some 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.920 ways that our listeners can get started, because, as you've shown, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:17.920 it's now too late. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:19.560 I love this. 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:25.720 Okay, so how did you get past the anger. How 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:27.840 can we get past the anger? 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.039 Oh? I wish there was a fast forward button. If 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.880 I knew one, I would tell you. If I knew 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:36.959 that there was a way to make that part quicker, 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.000 I would give it to you. But what I learned 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:47.080 in many, many, many hours of therapy is that your 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:53.000 anger will last longer if you resist it, if you 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.680 do not give it permission to live in your body, 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.000 to live in your bones, to live in your thoughts 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.920 for a while, if you do not give yourself permission 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.080 to feel angry, if you are hustling yourself through the emotions, 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:11.640 like if you are gaslighting yourself out of your actual feelings, 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.760 then you will stay angry longer. That's just it. Like, 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:21.600 ironically and weirdly, the quickest way through anger is feeling angry. 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:30.360 And so I learned to stop berating myself for feeling 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.400 that way. I learned how when those feelings rise, which 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.360 is normal, anger has its place, Like we have a 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:42.560 physiological reason to have anger. That's for our protection. It's important. 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:47.040 So when I feel anger rising up, I learned, oh 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.679 that's it. First of all, phone down, Oh Jesus, that's 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.440 not a good time to see the text. That's not it, 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.600 that's not it. Close your laptop, close your phone, say 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:01.120 give technology away from you. I go outside if I can. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.400 I sit in the grass if I can, or on 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.600 my porch. Either way, I don't care. Just some some air, 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:11.799 some sun. And this is so like low brow of 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.280 a tactic. But I learned how to get my body 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.360 really really soft. I would notice when I was angry, 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.960 I was so tense. It's like my shoulders were up 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.280 into the ceiling. My forehead was like so tight, my 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:29.280 hands like this, yeah, just I didn't even know that 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.640 I was. I didn't just walking around. I'm just right 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:36.640 tight well. And so I learned like how to like 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.760 release my eyes and my jaw. I didn't even know 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.120 about my jaw and my shoulders and my hands. And 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.360 I meditation taught me how to do this, get it 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.000 all as soft as I possibly could. Soft soft soft, 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.920 soft soft, like a pillow. And then I learned the breathing. 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.400 So for me, I like the big breaths. So I'm 0:03:55.480 --> 0:04:00.600 eight seconds in, four seconds, hold eight seconds out. It's cold, 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:03.320 and I'm not trying to fight my anger. I'm letting 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.720 all this time, I'm letting my feelings be what they 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.480 are but I'm just doing it with a soft body. 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.040 I'm doing it with a regulated nervous system, which is 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.240 what that breathing would do for me. I'm doing it 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:19.359 without resistance. And it's so crazy. It moved it through quicker, 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.520 It moved it through quicker, and then the next time 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:27.960 it spiked it wasn't quite so intense, And so I 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.800 wish that that was fast, but it is not. But 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:31.400 it will work. 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:37.160 It takes how much time it takes? Yeah, okay, finances 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:43.279 bare bones. What does every human need to know about 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.720 being responsible for themselves and how can we help ourselves 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.599 and our children be ready for life? 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:50.599 And finances? 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.560 Great question because this doesn't just apply to recently divorced 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.719 women who now have financial autonomy. This is everybody. The 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:01.800 happ best married girl in the whole world should know 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:07.320 all the same things. And so it's so simple, It 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:11.719 sounds so simple to my ears. Now every account you 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:17.560 need passwords to every account, all your banking, all your bills. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.560 You know, every credit card, every loan, whatever it's for. 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.760 You need to have a real working knowledge of your taxes, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.440 however it is that you pay them, and how much 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:33.400 you owe and what those look like future planning your retirement, 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:39.080 your investments, and that also includes your like will so 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.080 oh I know that, yeah, but we've got to have 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:47.839 that stuff. And what I would do now if I 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:53.839 had a partner is number one, share that labor. Financial 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.960 division of labor is not that uncommon. A lot of 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.800 a lot of marriages. One partner sort of takes the 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:01.960 lead on that. That's okay, there's nothing wrong with that. 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:07.520 But the other partners should not be absolutely ignorant. They 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:13.160 should not abdicate all investment into those decisions, into those numbers. 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.320 And so if I were partnered now, although I would 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.000 never hand the reins over to somebody else again, ever, 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.480 I would have a monthly business meeting where I went, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:24.880 let's just sit down, let's have a look at it. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.520 How where's our budget at? Like, what's coming in? What's 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.880 coming up? It's not even that. Isn't that boring? That's 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.279 just the most boring adult stuff, it really is. It's 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.480 the most boring adult stuff. But it's a knowledge is 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:39.800 power because. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.120 A partnership, a partnership, whether it's romantic or business, is 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.240 you have to have meetings, you have chap check ins, 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.039 you have to have like updates, how are we doing, 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:51.800 whether it's money of the relationship. 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.560 Stuff or money to us, that's right, like good financial 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:00.000 like practices don't just happen to us. They're not accident. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:04.279 And so it's the boring staff of going, Okay, we've 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:08.520 got a kid starting college next fall, let's talk about 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.600 getting there and what it's just, this is how it is. 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.520 And so this keeps resentment out of a marriage too, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.840 where one people feels or one partner feels unfairly burdened, 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:19.960 because that is a lot for one person to have 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:24.120 to do. Money is a huge lift. And the thing 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.760 is some people might go, well, my husband would never 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.000 leave me, divorce is not in our cards. Well, first 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.920 of all, I said that too. Second of all, death 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:38.440 and disease is indiscriminate, and so we never know when 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.520 it might be that we are in the driver's seat 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.480 by ourselves on money. So don't let us sneak up 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.280 on you. You do not want to learn that shit 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.480 when you are in crisis. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.400 Right, get ready, be ready, prepare yourself. 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.840 Be ready, be ready in the good share of day, 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.960 so that when nightfall happens to you in one way 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:58.600 or another, which it does to all of this, if 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.800 it hasn't just lived longer. You're ready. 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:03.640 You're ready. Great advice. 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:16.480 Okay, choosing you moms women, people often get lost in 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.400 the family system. And in your book You Do, you 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.160 talk about you single yourself out as a separate person 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.320 now like they are your kids, there's your partner, and 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:31.040 then there is just jin How can we be more 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:36.360 intentional about choosing to love ourselves and care for ourselves? 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.480 M I think that looks different for every person, which 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.199 I love. I love that each one of us can calibrate. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.000 What does it? What does love feel like to me? 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.600 What does love look like to me? If I were 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.760 loving me, what would that look like? I love the 0:08:54.840 --> 0:09:00.080 question because we're all geared differently. So for me, what 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.680 love looks like for myself? What it means to be 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.400 a person and not just a mom and not just 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:13.000 a sister. It is time, extended time, meaningful time, and 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.000 consistent time with my friends. That's what it is for me. 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:24.040 We spend three days a week together at least we travel. 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.120 We've traveled the whole world together, the whole world together. 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.880 And then when we're not together, we're on it's a 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:36.920 daily long, ongoing group chat and which is half nonsense, 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.040 And so for me, that makes I'm a person inside 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.520 my friends, inside my friend group. That is, those are 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.840 my chosen people, and we love each other because we 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.960 want to and we have so much fun. And those 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.079 were my friends who loved me back to life. Every 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.160 single one of their names is in this book, and 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.000 so that is what it looks like to me. 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:05.920 It feels so good to be seen outside of all 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.320 of your roles, right. 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.600 I didn't know that our moms were like real people, 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.080 you know. I didn't know about that they were so mommish. 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.120 They were just there to, like, you know, make sure 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.560 our lives were going smoothly. So I did not realize 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:25.640 that like our moms had friends and inside jokes. I 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.360 did not know that they talked about us behind our backs, 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.160 like you know what I mean. It's so fun to 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.360 know that, like, oh my gosh. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.680 Yeah, it's I don't go back and think, yeah, think 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.440 in retrospect, like, h what was I missing? 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.400 Totally totally And so that for me is what it 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:46.720 means to choose me, which is that I am choosing 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:51.880 my adult friendships and which is so fun and weren't 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:53.680 such a good season for it. Like two of my 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:57.800 friends are complete empty nesters totally, and I almost am. 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.760 I got one hanger on her back here. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:02.719 Me too, But I love it. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.320 Oh that's so good. I feel like I need to really. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.319 That's something that I have taken away from this episode 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.880 for sure, is I know that because I'm so busy 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.480 right now, because I have this like notion in my 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.200 head that it is go time. I want to do 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.040 as much as a much building as I can right now, 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.560 and all the things that I ever really wanted to do, 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:26.960 I have this like I want to get it done 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.720 by the time I'm sixty, so when I'm sixty, I 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.760 can just do whatever f I want, like, not worry 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.839 so much and not be so scheduled. I don't know 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:38.920 if that's going to happen at sixty, but I do 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.520 find that, Yeah, I do find that my my female 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.320 friendships are in last place. Yeah, I mean, because there's 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.280 some of the things that got to go before my husband, 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.160 my kids, the my health, you know, the upkeep of me. 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.719 There's there's a lot, one. 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.400 Hundred percent, right, There's always a lot. There's always a lot. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.640 And I mean I remember kind of saying that to 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.160 when my kids were little. Well, but there's this and 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:04.840 there just always is. And I don't know that we 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.760 ever stop having those things. I'm not sure, but I 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.120 don't want to wait until my life has so emptied 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.360 out that I do have time for my friends. But 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.800 I'm eighty one, you know, I wit it will still. 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.719 Be great when you're eighty one with your girlfriends. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.920 It will be let's do got to help everybody around us. 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.240 But I want to have a good time getting there too. 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:29.400 Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to work on that. 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:30.880 Thank you very good. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:35.360 The very first step, your first inclination was to lay 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.480 the whole implosion of your marriage at the feet of 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.200 your partner and walk away clean. You realize that you 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.680 talk about that in your book, but you realize that 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.480 it's more complicated than that. What do you think is 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.160 the first step that someone can take to get into 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:57.719 their next relationship healthier than they left their last. 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.080 Well, I think think there may be a truth worth 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:08.320 admitting or facing for every single human person, which is, 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.640 there is a one hundred percent chance that you have 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.960 some shit. Yeah, one hundred percent chance. And that is 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.800 not taking away from the harm someone else caused you. 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.840 That is not that is not a free pass. That 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.560 does not say that does not suggest that somebody else's 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:38.960 behavior was not traumatic, irresponsible, like exponentially painful. That is, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:43.679 that is not absolving anybody else of anything. But there 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.400 is a one hundred percent chance you've got some of 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:51.520 your own shit. So when I finally figured that out, 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.920 I was like, Okay, well, I can hang on to 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.920 that forever. If I want to just out of spy, 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.240 I can do that and just be resentful and bitter. 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.400 That's a choice. Or I can go ahead and go 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.720 with or without him wherever I go. There. I am, So, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.840 who do I want to be in this next iteration 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.800 of my life? Do I want to perpetuate some of 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:22.720 these toxic like communication patterns. Do I want to stay 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:29.320 as an avoidant attached person. Do I want to keep 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.720 honing these codependent skills with everybody in the whole world? 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.640 Or might I'd like to take a better look at that. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.000 So I think the first thing is admitting that you've 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:40.320 got something worth looking at. 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:42.680 That's self awareness. 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.920 That's it. Plenty of people will help you figure out 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:47.400 what that is. So don't worry. If you're like, well, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:48.680 I don't even know what my stuff is, don't worry 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.320 about it. Just as always a therapists ask somebody, they'll 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.480 help you. But admitting that you've got some stuff is 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.800 really useful. Where you go in as a willing partner 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.840 to your own evolution, anything can happen from that. 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.640 Point, Yes, and even admitting it and knowing that the 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:14.440 work to rewire those patterns in our brain, whatever it is, 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.640 whether it's like for me, I'm not a great communicator. 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:23.440 I suck at it in my relationship. I don't update 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.360 the person that I should about what's changed for my 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.120 day or how that's going to affect their schedule or 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:29.920 you know. 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:31.280 I'm just, I'm I just. 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.360 I know I can get better at that, and I 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:34.520 know that about myself. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.240 But it doesn't mean it's easy. 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.440 It takes work, that's right. None of this is easy, 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:45.680 none of it. This is why most adults walk around 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.600 unexamined and unevolved because it's hard. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:50.720 It's hard. You don't want to do it. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.040 Yeah, I get it. I mean it's easier just to 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.040 blame other people for the way your life is going. 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.920 And just imagine if that they would all behave you 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:06.280 would be happier. So I get the aversion to the 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.440 hard work, But I do think it is the path 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.280 to a really vibrant second half of life. 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.000 Very true, Very true. 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.440 Okay, how do you let go of those rigid or 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.040 outdated beliefs that you grew up with that no longer 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:20.480 serve you? 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:29.760 Boy, that's a big question and a hard one because 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.480 that comes with some loss. And most people know that, 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:39.480 Like when you are going to release a belief that 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:44.120 you were handed as a kid, that maybe your origin 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.520 story still holds to right, or some of the people 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:52.160 that you came from or came up with are still 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:57.880 in that ethos and you are migrat grading out of it. 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.560 It is you are correct in thinking this might hurt, 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:08.800 This might involve some loss, This might be challenging, This 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:17.040 might threaten my belonging, which it can. Yeah, And that 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:25.000 is one of those consider the cost places, because I 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.160 had to consider the cost with a lot of beliefs 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.160 that I have released, and I was going to pay 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.120 one way or another. And I had to decide which 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.160 way I was going to pay. I was either going 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.919 to get to protect my belonging, which meant I was 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.560 going to have to pay with my own integrity because 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:44.920 I didn't still believe this thing anymore, or I had 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.199 changed my mind, or I had an involved idea about it, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.439 or I didn't think that way anymore. So I was 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.280 going I would pay the cost, and the cost was internal. 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:01.560 The cost was misalignment. The cost was living in a 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:05.000 way that felt duplicitous. But I could protect my belonging 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:10.480 or I could put my belonging at risk and live 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.000 with my integrity. Either way, it's gonna cost me something. 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:14.520 Yep. 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:20.320 And eventually I have mostly decided that the cost to 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.080 live out of integrity for me is too high. It's 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.520 too high. It ruins everything. I cannot. I am not 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:31.840 a functional person when I have an outward facing gin 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.600 that is different from inside gin, I just can't. I 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.639 cannot function that way. I can do it for a 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.240 short amount of time, but that starts coming out sideways. 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:44.960 So figure out what cost you want to pay. And 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:50.400 none of it's free, unfortunately. So what I find, yes, 0:18:51.359 --> 0:19:00.720 very very helpful. Codependency you explained so well in your 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.359 book with your own story. Thank you so much for 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.400 being vulnerable around that topic, because it's a big one. 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:11.639 Do you think codependency is contagious? Do we pass it 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.440 down to our kids? And how do we personally break free? 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:20.040 From being codependent like this is uh, that's big work. 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.760 Oh, this is such my heavy lift. I'm not good at. 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.640 It yet, I'm not about interdependence. 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:28.959 How have you heard that? 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:30.280 Tell me more? 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:36.160 Well, I've been labeled codependent by other people. I've labeled 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.800 myself codependent. And you know what I've said, bucket, I'm codependent. 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:40.560 I'm okay with that. 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:42.400 I like it. 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.639 I like that about me, try to justify it. But 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:51.240 then I stumbled upon this new awareness called interdependence, which 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:58.280 really gave me permission to still care deeply and want 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:03.240 for other people, but also protect my own space, my 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:07.000 own you know, my own process. 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:12.080 That's good. I love that as a goal. That's my goal. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:13.919 I just adopted it, just now on the spot. 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:14.520 Take it. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.240 Yeah, that's I'm just gonna learn everything I can about that, 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.560 and that's exactly what I'm working toward as well. 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:23.960 Do you think it's contagious? Do you think we pass 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:24.879 it down to our kids? 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.560 I do, don't you? Yeah? I see learn that from us. 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:34.320 I think they learn that attempt at control because number one, 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.560 they probably have felt controlled by us. 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.040 Or out of control or out of control. 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:41.320 That's really how it feels. 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:41.720 Yep. 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:47.439 Yeah, I do think it's contagious and you kind of 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.880 see that past generally, generationally, if no one ever interrupts 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.879 the cycle. And so it's a big one. It's a 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.320 big one. And i'd like to say, on our best days, 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:03.479 it comes from an altruistic place. What we we don't 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.879 want the people that we love to experience pain and discomfort. 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.320 I know that we mean well. I know that we 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.639 do mean well. But the thing is is that human 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:22.520 beings experience pain and discomfort full stop. So any attempt 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:30.160 to disrupt the way life works is highly dysfunctional. And 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.080 so I don't know. I feel like I'm getting about 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.480 a sixty two percent on this right now. Maybe like 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.240 a fifty nine is probably more fair. 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:38.920 That's better. 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.960 It's an improvement that's better than thirteen percent. 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:46.480 Okay, thank you, thanks, I'm almost passing. I'll take that. 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.719 Yeah, that's like a D right, yeah D minus. 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:50.720 You're going to pass. 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:51.800 Thank you. 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.919 You can get to go on to the next What 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:59.399 are your tips for finding your people and fostering authentic friendships? 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:00.960 Give me some because I need it. 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:03.560 That's hard, isn't it. It's hard to make friends at 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.040 our age. Well, one thing I learned I had somebody 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.280 on my show that was kind of a relationship expert, 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:13.639 and she was saying that at our age that the 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:21.000 number one factor for keeping friends, making friends, nurturing friendships 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:25.320 around this time is And I expected her to say, 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:28.520 you know, vulnerability or I expected some of those like 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:33.560 emotional squishy thoughts about friendship, and she's like, proximity. She 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:37.240 was like, you will be friends with whoever you're around. Like, true, 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:39.560 it can't be too hard. If your friend lives forty 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:41.840 five minutes away, you're not going to see her that much, 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.840 like she's like, it is proximity. And that is also 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:49.000 why some friendships loosen because somebody has moved, even just 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:49.760 across town. 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:54.040 Oh my best friend moved to Palm Springs, and well, 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:57.680 well I'm so mad at her. 0:22:58.640 --> 0:22:59.800 Why will we are? 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:03.280 It will always be what we were and are There 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.760 is that, like evolving with one another in real time 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:07.600 that makes such a thing. 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:13.520 I know, it is. Proximity is something. And so it's 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:15.320 not that everybody can just pack up and move so 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:17.320 they can live on the same street as their best friends. 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:21.199 I understand that, but it is worth going who's around me, 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:26.400 who's near me? Who for whom it would friendship kind 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:31.760 of be an easy lift because it's like, hey, walk 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.639 down for one hour's so of the porch. That's easy. 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:36.760 That's not that disruptive delight. That doesn't take a ton 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:38.960 of planning. That doesn't you know, when we have to 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.040 make our plans with our people who for whom we 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:44.680 are not proximate, it takes an act of God. 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:47.399 Oh my gosh, it's an act of God. Find the time. 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:52.600 It's so hard. So don't underestimate proximity, what it can mean, 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.280 what it can do, and then be willing to be 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:57.480 opened and maybe some of the people that are near 0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:00.760 you that may turn into such a beautyati ful connection 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:01.680