Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garl. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to I Choose Me. I've been talking to Jen
Speaker 1: hat Maker about her new book Awake, and she's got
Speaker 1: some pretty amazing nuggets to share, some wisdoms for us.
Speaker 2: Congratulations.
Speaker 1: Jen. First of all, you have broken a generational cycle
Speaker 1: for not just yourself, but for your kids, for your grandson.
Speaker 1: They are awake because of you, and they are no
Speaker 1: longer locked in to someone else's rules of how they
Speaker 1: should live their lives. Those are the same rules that
Speaker 1: you grew up with. The purity culture, the gender norms
Speaker 1: a shame. So you're just an inspiration. You're a modern
Speaker 1: day role model to not only women in your community
Speaker 1: but your children.
Speaker 2: And I know you're probably exhausted.
Speaker 3: That is such a nice thing to say.
Speaker 2: I acknowledge you're exhausted because it's hard.
Speaker 3: It's a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm going to ask more of you. I thought,
Speaker 1: since you've had this awakening, it would be really great
Speaker 1: for us to provide a sort of little toolkit, some
Speaker 1: ways that our listeners can get started, because, as you've shown,
Speaker 1: it's now too late.
Speaker 3: I love this.
Speaker 1: Okay, so how did you get past the anger. How
Speaker 1: can we get past the anger?
Speaker 3: Oh? I wish there was a fast forward button. If
Speaker 3: I knew one, I would tell you. If I knew
Speaker 3: that there was a way to make that part quicker,
Speaker 3: I would give it to you. But what I learned
Speaker 3: in many, many, many hours of therapy is that your
Speaker 3: anger will last longer if you resist it, if you
Speaker 3: do not give it permission to live in your body,
Speaker 3: to live in your bones, to live in your thoughts
Speaker 3: for a while, if you do not give yourself permission
Speaker 3: to feel angry, if you are hustling yourself through the emotions,
Speaker 3: like if you are gaslighting yourself out of your actual feelings,
Speaker 3: then you will stay angry longer. That's just it. Like,
Speaker 3: ironically and weirdly, the quickest way through anger is feeling angry.
Speaker 3: And so I learned to stop berating myself for feeling
Speaker 3: that way. I learned how when those feelings rise, which
Speaker 3: is normal, anger has its place, Like we have a
Speaker 3: physiological reason to have anger. That's for our protection. It's important.
Speaker 3: So when I feel anger rising up, I learned, oh
Speaker 3: that's it. First of all, phone down, Oh Jesus, that's
Speaker 3: not a good time to see the text. That's not it,
Speaker 3: that's not it. Close your laptop, close your phone, say
Speaker 3: give technology away from you. I go outside if I can.
Speaker 3: I sit in the grass if I can, or on
Speaker 3: my porch. Either way, I don't care. Just some some air,
Speaker 3: some sun. And this is so like low brow of
Speaker 3: a tactic. But I learned how to get my body
Speaker 3: really really soft. I would notice when I was angry,
Speaker 3: I was so tense. It's like my shoulders were up
Speaker 3: into the ceiling. My forehead was like so tight, my
Speaker 3: hands like this, yeah, just I didn't even know that
Speaker 3: I was. I didn't just walking around. I'm just right
Speaker 3: tight well. And so I learned like how to like
Speaker 3: release my eyes and my jaw. I didn't even know
Speaker 3: about my jaw and my shoulders and my hands. And
Speaker 3: I meditation taught me how to do this, get it
Speaker 3: all as soft as I possibly could. Soft soft soft,
Speaker 3: soft soft, like a pillow. And then I learned the breathing.
Speaker 3: So for me, I like the big breaths. So I'm
Speaker 3: eight seconds in, four seconds, hold eight seconds out. It's cold,
Speaker 3: and I'm not trying to fight my anger. I'm letting
Speaker 3: all this time, I'm letting my feelings be what they
Speaker 3: are but I'm just doing it with a soft body.
Speaker 3: I'm doing it with a regulated nervous system, which is
Speaker 3: what that breathing would do for me. I'm doing it
Speaker 3: without resistance. And it's so crazy. It moved it through quicker,
Speaker 3: It moved it through quicker, and then the next time
Speaker 3: it spiked it wasn't quite so intense, And so I
Speaker 3: wish that that was fast, but it is not. But
Speaker 3: it will work.
Speaker 1: It takes how much time it takes? Yeah, okay, finances
Speaker 1: bare bones. What does every human need to know about
Speaker 1: being responsible for themselves and how can we help ourselves
Speaker 1: and our children be ready for life?
Speaker 2: And finances?
Speaker 3: Great question because this doesn't just apply to recently divorced
Speaker 3: women who now have financial autonomy. This is everybody. The
Speaker 3: happ best married girl in the whole world should know
Speaker 3: all the same things. And so it's so simple, It
Speaker 3: sounds so simple to my ears. Now every account you
Speaker 3: need passwords to every account, all your banking, all your bills.
Speaker 3: You know, every credit card, every loan, whatever it's for.
Speaker 3: You need to have a real working knowledge of your taxes,
Speaker 3: however it is that you pay them, and how much
Speaker 3: you owe and what those look like future planning your retirement,
Speaker 3: your investments, and that also includes your like will so
Speaker 3: oh I know that, yeah, but we've got to have
Speaker 3: that stuff. And what I would do now if I
Speaker 3: had a partner is number one, share that labor. Financial
Speaker 3: division of labor is not that uncommon. A lot of
Speaker 3: a lot of marriages. One partner sort of takes the
Speaker 3: lead on that. That's okay, there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 3: But the other partners should not be absolutely ignorant. They
Speaker 3: should not abdicate all investment into those decisions, into those numbers.
Speaker 3: And so if I were partnered now, although I would
Speaker 3: never hand the reins over to somebody else again, ever,
Speaker 3: I would have a monthly business meeting where I went,
Speaker 3: let's just sit down, let's have a look at it.
Speaker 3: How where's our budget at? Like, what's coming in? What's
Speaker 3: coming up? It's not even that. Isn't that boring? That's
Speaker 3: just the most boring adult stuff, it really is. It's
Speaker 3: the most boring adult stuff. But it's a knowledge is
Speaker 3: power because.
Speaker 1: A partnership, a partnership, whether it's romantic or business, is
Speaker 1: you have to have meetings, you have chap check ins,
Speaker 1: you have to have like updates, how are we doing,
Speaker 1: whether it's money of the relationship.
Speaker 3: Stuff or money to us, that's right, like good financial
Speaker 3: like practices don't just happen to us. They're not accident.
Speaker 3: And so it's the boring staff of going, Okay, we've
Speaker 3: got a kid starting college next fall, let's talk about
Speaker 3: getting there and what it's just, this is how it is.
Speaker 3: And so this keeps resentment out of a marriage too,
Speaker 3: where one people feels or one partner feels unfairly burdened,
Speaker 3: because that is a lot for one person to have
Speaker 3: to do. Money is a huge lift. And the thing
Speaker 3: is some people might go, well, my husband would never
Speaker 3: leave me, divorce is not in our cards. Well, first
Speaker 3: of all, I said that too. Second of all, death
Speaker 3: and disease is indiscriminate, and so we never know when
Speaker 3: it might be that we are in the driver's seat
Speaker 3: by ourselves on money. So don't let us sneak up
Speaker 3: on you. You do not want to learn that shit
Speaker 3: when you are in crisis.
Speaker 2: Right, get ready, be ready, prepare yourself.
Speaker 3: Be ready, be ready in the good share of day,
Speaker 3: so that when nightfall happens to you in one way
Speaker 3: or another, which it does to all of this, if
Speaker 3: it hasn't just lived longer. You're ready.
Speaker 2: You're ready. Great advice.
Speaker 1: Okay, choosing you moms women, people often get lost in
Speaker 1: the family system. And in your book You Do, you
Speaker 1: talk about you single yourself out as a separate person
Speaker 1: now like they are your kids, there's your partner, and
Speaker 1: then there is just jin How can we be more
Speaker 1: intentional about choosing to love ourselves and care for ourselves?
Speaker 3: M I think that looks different for every person, which
Speaker 3: I love. I love that each one of us can calibrate.
Speaker 3: What does it? What does love feel like to me?
Speaker 3: What does love look like to me? If I were
Speaker 3: loving me, what would that look like? I love the
Speaker 3: question because we're all geared differently. So for me, what
Speaker 3: love looks like for myself? What it means to be
Speaker 3: a person and not just a mom and not just
Speaker 3: a sister. It is time, extended time, meaningful time, and
Speaker 3: consistent time with my friends. That's what it is for me.
Speaker 3: We spend three days a week together at least we travel.
Speaker 3: We've traveled the whole world together, the whole world together.
Speaker 3: And then when we're not together, we're on it's a
Speaker 3: daily long, ongoing group chat and which is half nonsense,
Speaker 3: And so for me, that makes I'm a person inside
Speaker 3: my friends, inside my friend group. That is, those are
Speaker 3: my chosen people, and we love each other because we
Speaker 3: want to and we have so much fun. And those
Speaker 3: were my friends who loved me back to life. Every
Speaker 3: single one of their names is in this book, and
Speaker 3: so that is what it looks like to me.
Speaker 1: It feels so good to be seen outside of all
Speaker 1: of your roles, right.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that our moms were like real people,
Speaker 3: you know. I didn't know about that they were so mommish.
Speaker 3: They were just there to, like, you know, make sure
Speaker 3: our lives were going smoothly. So I did not realize
Speaker 3: that like our moms had friends and inside jokes. I
Speaker 3: did not know that they talked about us behind our backs,
Speaker 3: like you know what I mean. It's so fun to
Speaker 3: know that, like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I don't go back and think, yeah, think
Speaker 1: in retrospect, like, h what was I missing?
Speaker 3: Totally totally And so that for me is what it
Speaker 3: means to choose me, which is that I am choosing
Speaker 3: my adult friendships and which is so fun and weren't
Speaker 3: such a good season for it. Like two of my
Speaker 3: friends are complete empty nesters totally, and I almost am.
Speaker 3: I got one hanger on her back here.
Speaker 2: Me too, But I love it.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so good. I feel like I need to really.
Speaker 1: That's something that I have taken away from this episode
Speaker 1: for sure, is I know that because I'm so busy
Speaker 1: right now, because I have this like notion in my
Speaker 1: head that it is go time. I want to do
Speaker 1: as much as a much building as I can right now,
Speaker 1: and all the things that I ever really wanted to do,
Speaker 1: I have this like I want to get it done
Speaker 1: by the time I'm sixty, so when I'm sixty, I
Speaker 1: can just do whatever f I want, like, not worry
Speaker 1: so much and not be so scheduled. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's going to happen at sixty, but I do
Speaker 1: find that, Yeah, I do find that my my female
Speaker 1: friendships are in last place. Yeah, I mean, because there's
Speaker 1: some of the things that got to go before my husband,
Speaker 1: my kids, the my health, you know, the upkeep of me.
Speaker 2: There's there's a lot, one.
Speaker 3: Hundred percent, right, There's always a lot. There's always a lot.
Speaker 3: And I mean I remember kind of saying that to
Speaker 3: when my kids were little. Well, but there's this and
Speaker 3: there just always is. And I don't know that we
Speaker 3: ever stop having those things. I'm not sure, but I
Speaker 3: don't want to wait until my life has so emptied
Speaker 3: out that I do have time for my friends. But
Speaker 3: I'm eighty one, you know, I wit it will still.
Speaker 1: Be great when you're eighty one with your girlfriends.
Speaker 3: It will be let's do got to help everybody around us.
Speaker 3: But I want to have a good time getting there too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to work on that.
Speaker 3: Thank you very good.
Speaker 1: The very first step, your first inclination was to lay
Speaker 1: the whole implosion of your marriage at the feet of
Speaker 1: your partner and walk away clean. You realize that you
Speaker 1: talk about that in your book, but you realize that
Speaker 1: it's more complicated than that. What do you think is
Speaker 1: the first step that someone can take to get into
Speaker 1: their next relationship healthier than they left their last.
Speaker 3: Well, I think think there may be a truth worth
Speaker 3: admitting or facing for every single human person, which is,
Speaker 3: there is a one hundred percent chance that you have
Speaker 3: some shit. Yeah, one hundred percent chance. And that is
Speaker 3: not taking away from the harm someone else caused you.
Speaker 3: That is not that is not a free pass. That
Speaker 3: does not say that does not suggest that somebody else's
Speaker 3: behavior was not traumatic, irresponsible, like exponentially painful. That is,
Speaker 3: that is not absolving anybody else of anything. But there
Speaker 3: is a one hundred percent chance you've got some of
Speaker 3: your own shit. So when I finally figured that out,
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, well, I can hang on to
Speaker 3: that forever. If I want to just out of spy,
Speaker 3: I can do that and just be resentful and bitter.
Speaker 3: That's a choice. Or I can go ahead and go
Speaker 3: with or without him wherever I go. There. I am, So,
Speaker 3: who do I want to be in this next iteration
Speaker 3: of my life? Do I want to perpetuate some of
Speaker 3: these toxic like communication patterns. Do I want to stay
Speaker 3: as an avoidant attached person. Do I want to keep
Speaker 3: honing these codependent skills with everybody in the whole world?
Speaker 3: Or might I'd like to take a better look at that.
Speaker 3: So I think the first thing is admitting that you've
Speaker 3: got something worth looking at.
Speaker 2: That's self awareness.
Speaker 3: That's it. Plenty of people will help you figure out
Speaker 3: what that is. So don't worry. If you're like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't even know what my stuff is, don't worry
Speaker 3: about it. Just as always a therapists ask somebody, they'll
Speaker 3: help you. But admitting that you've got some stuff is
Speaker 3: really useful. Where you go in as a willing partner
Speaker 3: to your own evolution, anything can happen from that.
Speaker 1: Point, Yes, and even admitting it and knowing that the
Speaker 1: work to rewire those patterns in our brain, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: whether it's like for me, I'm not a great communicator.
Speaker 1: I suck at it in my relationship. I don't update
Speaker 1: the person that I should about what's changed for my
Speaker 1: day or how that's going to affect their schedule or
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: I'm just, I'm I just.
Speaker 1: I know I can get better at that, and I
Speaker 1: know that about myself.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean it's easy.
Speaker 3: It takes work, that's right. None of this is easy,
Speaker 3: none of it. This is why most adults walk around
Speaker 3: unexamined and unevolved because it's hard.
Speaker 2: It's hard. You don't want to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get it. I mean it's easier just to
Speaker 3: blame other people for the way your life is going.
Speaker 3: And just imagine if that they would all behave you
Speaker 3: would be happier. So I get the aversion to the
Speaker 3: hard work, But I do think it is the path
Speaker 3: to a really vibrant second half of life.
Speaker 2: Very true, Very true.
Speaker 1: Okay, how do you let go of those rigid or
Speaker 1: outdated beliefs that you grew up with that no longer
Speaker 1: serve you?
Speaker 3: Boy, that's a big question and a hard one because
Speaker 3: that comes with some loss. And most people know that,
Speaker 3: Like when you are going to release a belief that
Speaker 3: you were handed as a kid, that maybe your origin
Speaker 3: story still holds to right, or some of the people
Speaker 3: that you came from or came up with are still
Speaker 3: in that ethos and you are migrat grading out of it.
Speaker 3: It is you are correct in thinking this might hurt,
Speaker 3: This might involve some loss, This might be challenging, This
Speaker 3: might threaten my belonging, which it can. Yeah, And that
Speaker 3: is one of those consider the cost places, because I
Speaker 3: had to consider the cost with a lot of beliefs
Speaker 3: that I have released, and I was going to pay
Speaker 3: one way or another. And I had to decide which
Speaker 3: way I was going to pay. I was either going
Speaker 3: to get to protect my belonging, which meant I was
Speaker 3: going to have to pay with my own integrity because
Speaker 3: I didn't still believe this thing anymore, or I had
Speaker 3: changed my mind, or I had an involved idea about it,
Speaker 3: or I didn't think that way anymore. So I was
Speaker 3: going I would pay the cost, and the cost was internal.
Speaker 3: The cost was misalignment. The cost was living in a
Speaker 3: way that felt duplicitous. But I could protect my belonging
Speaker 3: or I could put my belonging at risk and live
Speaker 3: with my integrity. Either way, it's gonna cost me something.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: And eventually I have mostly decided that the cost to
Speaker 3: live out of integrity for me is too high. It's
Speaker 3: too high. It ruins everything. I cannot. I am not
Speaker 3: a functional person when I have an outward facing gin
Speaker 3: that is different from inside gin, I just can't. I
Speaker 3: cannot function that way. I can do it for a
Speaker 3: short amount of time, but that starts coming out sideways.
Speaker 3: So figure out what cost you want to pay. And
Speaker 3: none of it's free, unfortunately. So what I find, yes,
Speaker 3: very very helpful. Codependency you explained so well in your
Speaker 3: book with your own story. Thank you so much for
Speaker 3: being vulnerable around that topic, because it's a big one.
Speaker 1: Do you think codependency is contagious? Do we pass it
Speaker 1: down to our kids? And how do we personally break free?
Speaker 1: From being codependent like this is uh, that's big work.
Speaker 3: Oh, this is such my heavy lift. I'm not good at.
Speaker 1: It yet, I'm not about interdependence.
Speaker 2: How have you heard that?
Speaker 3: Tell me more?
Speaker 1: Well, I've been labeled codependent by other people. I've labeled
Speaker 1: myself codependent. And you know what I've said, bucket, I'm codependent.
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 1: I like that about me, try to justify it. But
Speaker 1: then I stumbled upon this new awareness called interdependence, which
Speaker 1: really gave me permission to still care deeply and want
Speaker 1: for other people, but also protect my own space, my
Speaker 1: own you know, my own process.
Speaker 3: That's good. I love that as a goal. That's my goal.
Speaker 3: I just adopted it, just now on the spot.
Speaker 2: Take it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I'm just gonna learn everything I can about that,
Speaker 3: and that's exactly what I'm working toward as well.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's contagious? Do you think we pass
Speaker 1: it down to our kids?
Speaker 3: I do, don't you? Yeah? I see learn that from us.
Speaker 3: I think they learn that attempt at control because number one,
Speaker 3: they probably have felt controlled by us.
Speaker 1: Or out of control or out of control.
Speaker 3: That's really how it feels.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think it's contagious and you kind of
Speaker 3: see that past generally, generationally, if no one ever interrupts
Speaker 3: the cycle. And so it's a big one. It's a
Speaker 3: big one. And i'd like to say, on our best days,
Speaker 3: it comes from an altruistic place. What we we don't
Speaker 3: want the people that we love to experience pain and discomfort.
Speaker 3: I know that we mean well. I know that we
Speaker 3: do mean well. But the thing is is that human
Speaker 3: beings experience pain and discomfort full stop. So any attempt
Speaker 3: to disrupt the way life works is highly dysfunctional. And
Speaker 3: so I don't know. I feel like I'm getting about
Speaker 3: a sixty two percent on this right now. Maybe like
Speaker 3: a fifty nine is probably more fair.
Speaker 2: That's better.
Speaker 1: It's an improvement that's better than thirteen percent.
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, thanks, I'm almost passing. I'll take that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like a D right, yeah D minus.
Speaker 2: You're going to pass.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: You can get to go on to the next What
Speaker 1: are your tips for finding your people and fostering authentic friendships?
Speaker 1: Give me some because I need it.
Speaker 3: That's hard, isn't it. It's hard to make friends at
Speaker 3: our age. Well, one thing I learned I had somebody
Speaker 3: on my show that was kind of a relationship expert,
Speaker 3: and she was saying that at our age that the
Speaker 3: number one factor for keeping friends, making friends, nurturing friendships
Speaker 3: around this time is And I expected her to say,
Speaker 3: you know, vulnerability or I expected some of those like
Speaker 3: emotional squishy thoughts about friendship, and she's like, proximity. She
Speaker 3: was like, you will be friends with whoever you're around. Like, true,
Speaker 3: it can't be too hard. If your friend lives forty
Speaker 3: five minutes away, you're not going to see her that much,
Speaker 3: like she's like, it is proximity. And that is also
Speaker 3: why some friendships loosen because somebody has moved, even just
Speaker 3: across town.
Speaker 1: Oh my best friend moved to Palm Springs, and well,
Speaker 1: well I'm so mad at her.
Speaker 2: Why will we are?
Speaker 1: It will always be what we were and are There
Speaker 1: is that, like evolving with one another in real time
Speaker 1: that makes such a thing.
Speaker 3: I know, it is. Proximity is something. And so it's
Speaker 3: not that everybody can just pack up and move so
Speaker 3: they can live on the same street as their best friends.
Speaker 3: I understand that, but it is worth going who's around me,
Speaker 3: who's near me? Who for whom it would friendship kind
Speaker 3: of be an easy lift because it's like, hey, walk
Speaker 3: down for one hour's so of the porch. That's easy.
Speaker 3: That's not that disruptive delight. That doesn't take a ton
Speaker 3: of planning. That doesn't you know, when we have to
Speaker 3: make our plans with our people who for whom we
Speaker 3: are not proximate, it takes an act of God.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's an act of God. Find the time.
Speaker 3: It's so hard. So don't underestimate proximity, what it can mean,
Speaker 3: what it can do, and then be willing to be
Speaker 3: opened and maybe some of the people that are near
Speaker 3: you that may turn into such a beautyati ful connection
Speaker 3: because it's easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find though on that topic, I do gravitate
Speaker 1: towards being friends with my coworkers, people that I work
Speaker 1: with on the daily. But then I realize, are we
Speaker 1: just friends because of our closeness on a day to
Speaker 1: day thing or is there something deeper there? Do they
Speaker 1: really know me? Is this serving them more than it's
Speaker 1: serving me?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Because I'm usually the older one. Oh yeah, in my
Speaker 1: work relationships, m.
Speaker 3: Yeah, real friendships bear out. Those are good questions to ask,
Speaker 3: just to gauge the health of any given relationship, but
Speaker 3: the good ones bear out. They do. And the reciprocity,
Speaker 3: which I think is what you're getting at there, is
Speaker 3: one of the biggest indicators. Is this person a good
Speaker 3: friend to you? Or are you just a good friend
Speaker 3: to them? And that will run out of fuel. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but the reciprocity, even if your friend is twenty five,
Speaker 3: you're younger than you, that can still be the most
Speaker 3: beautiful sound friendship in the world when it is give
Speaker 3: and take.
Speaker 1: For sure, I feel like sometimes my middle daughter, who
Speaker 1: is my what you called hanger on her, she's I
Speaker 1: love that she's back home with me. We work together
Speaker 1: full time. Oh yeah, I feel like she's my best friend.
Speaker 2: Is that bad?
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. We have an evolving relationship
Speaker 3: with our young adult kids. It's marvelous. I'm always telling
Speaker 3: moms of young don't worry. First of all, they're hilarious
Speaker 3: as teens. They will drive you crazy, but they're funny.
Speaker 3: Don't listen to what everybody says, how teens are the
Speaker 3: worst ever in your life is over, it's not. The
Speaker 3: young adults is where it's at. Young adults is where
Speaker 3: it's at.
Speaker 1: It's so much fresh, the exciting new. Yeah, their perspective.
Speaker 1: I love it, Yes, the best, Okay, so so good?
Speaker 1: Me Camp? How me Camp? We talked about me Camp
Speaker 1: in the episode. If you guys didn't listen to the
Speaker 1: first episode, go listen to it, and you write about
Speaker 1: it in your book. You make everybody around you want
Speaker 1: to go to meet Camp.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: How can someone who is overwhelmed that thought or afraid
Speaker 1: of that thought, how can they do that for themselves?
Speaker 3: That's almost everybody. Like the idea of solo travel, even
Speaker 3: for a shorthandful of days, is very overwhelming to almost
Speaker 3: every woman I know. Don't We have never built or
Speaker 3: oriented our lives like that. And so what I always
Speaker 3: tell people who want to have their own met Camp.
Speaker 3: Let's just say it's three days long. Awesome, yep. Do
Speaker 3: not expect one thing about it to be easy or seamless,
Speaker 3: nothing like anything good. You will need to plan it.
Speaker 3: You will have to block it off and protect it.
Speaker 3: Nobody else will. Nobody wants you to be gone for
Speaker 3: three days. Nobody. You'll have to maybe say for it
Speaker 3: that is a positive. If it's save your money, save
Speaker 3: your points, save your miles, whatever it is, your thing
Speaker 3: is you save for it, have a plan like also,
Speaker 3: know what you want? What does me camp look like
Speaker 3: to you? To me, it has a real specific metric.
Speaker 3: Somebody else might want me camp in the middle of
Speaker 3: New York City, whatever it is, like what makes you happy,
Speaker 3: what fuels you like, what makes you feel alive? Like?
Speaker 3: Where would you love to be your own? Good company?
Speaker 3: So build it around you.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: Build it around what you need. That's perfect advice these revelations.
Speaker 1: This work is very, very hard. I feel like somehow
Speaker 1: you and I and anyone who has gone through something
Speaker 1: like this has basically we've saved our own lives and
Speaker 1: kind of feels like we're saving the world sometimes. So
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your story. I know it is
Speaker 1: going to help so many women out there. And the
Speaker 1: book is called Awake a memoir. Get it people, you
Speaker 1: won't regret it.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jenny,