Speaker 1: Hey I do for two it's your celebrity mentor Kelly
Speaker 1: ben smone And today I'm going to basically open up
Speaker 1: and have my own therapy session on air.
Speaker 2: Scary.
Speaker 1: Yes, hopefully I can gain something out of this for
Speaker 1: all of us. Today. I'm joined today by my great friend,
Speaker 1: doctor Hillary Goldher.
Speaker 2: She's a psychologist who does.
Speaker 1: Extensive work in the area of relationships, helping couples as
Speaker 1: well as individuals in all areas of life before marriage,
Speaker 1: during marriage, separated divorce, and high conflict divorce. Welcome, doctor
Speaker 1: Hillary Hiver. Oh, hi, Hi, So I have some questions
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 3: I'm here for it.
Speaker 1: I want to give you a little background of like
Speaker 1: where I you know, how I got to where I
Speaker 1: am today. So I got divorced in two thousand and
Speaker 1: seven and mediator I took care of everything, got him
Speaker 1: a new girlfriend, locked him up, just took everything, like
Speaker 1: in control so my kids.
Speaker 2: Would be happy, he'd be happy.
Speaker 1: And when on a television show, thought that I was
Speaker 1: going to be, you know, feeling free and you know,
Speaker 1: able to like nowdate people who you know, really cared
Speaker 1: about me and wanted to be with me, And that
Speaker 1: didn't work out because it was just like all of
Speaker 1: these like entertainment kind of poser kind of people, which
Speaker 1: was super disappointing. And then, you know, day try to
Speaker 1: date some people that were on entertainment because I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: he's entertainment, I'm entertainment. Let's figure this out. That did
Speaker 1: not work out, and then retired from the show and started,
Speaker 1: you know, working on my own writing books and working
Speaker 1: with in the jewelry and partnership space with collaborations, which
Speaker 1: was so much fun, but I was laser focused on
Speaker 1: making money, providing for my kids and making sure they
Speaker 1: were safe cut too.
Speaker 2: I am now still single.
Speaker 1: I was supposed to get married two years ago, found
Speaker 1: out that the guy wasn't going to sign my prenup,
Speaker 1: and just really found out that he wasn't who he
Speaker 1: said he was.
Speaker 2: And now I'm.
Speaker 1: You know, out there dating. I met a really really
Speaker 1: nice guy last year. We had a you know, such
Speaker 1: a great relationship, and then I was going to go
Speaker 1: on a show, and I just was afraid that he wasn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what he wanted to do, but it
Speaker 1: didn't seem like he was making definitive moves forward. I mean,
Speaker 1: we were together, we were having a great time. We
Speaker 1: were having fun, the kids are having a great time.
Speaker 1: Everyone is having a great time. But that's not a relationship.
Speaker 1: That's a friend and a fun friend, whatever you want.
Speaker 2: To call them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then now I'm back on television. This is my
Speaker 1: second season of a new show, and I'm still single.
Speaker 1: But the thing that's different this time around is now
Speaker 1: I'm on HRT. So I'm single and I'm wildly ready
Speaker 1: to meet someone.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, I have a couple questions,
Speaker 3: but I'll just say this. I just want to remind
Speaker 3: you and listeners that have similar stories around divorce that
Speaker 3: divorce is really traumatic, and divorce with children, it's really
Speaker 3: really traumatic, and there are a lot even in the
Speaker 3: best of circumstances, And I don't know what yours were,
Speaker 3: but they don't sound like they qualify for the best
Speaker 3: of circumstances. But even under the best of circumstances, it's
Speaker 3: really really hard and it takes a while for the mind, body,
Speaker 3: spirit to recover. And I think it has an impact
Speaker 3: that people don't even realize until they realize it is
Speaker 3: a real paradigm shift and a version of an existential crisis,
Speaker 3: especially with kids and so you doing a version of
Speaker 3: relationally reeling posted divorce for this period of time is
Speaker 3: not that surprising. I don't mean that related to you specifically,
Speaker 3: I just mean in general, it's a lot to recover from.
Speaker 3: And so I just think having a version of like
Speaker 3: empathy and understanding that you're going to have some trauma
Speaker 3: responses and emotional hangover from your experience that's going to
Speaker 3: impact how you move through relationships for this season. I'm
Speaker 3: sure you're list to not to have that always be
Speaker 3: the case, but I just kind of want to honor
Speaker 3: that truth because I think it's sacred and not something
Speaker 3: to be suppressed or rushed through. I think said that,
Speaker 3: I am curious from your perspective. You know, the only
Speaker 3: thing you and I have at this moment besides like
Speaker 3: twenty thirty minutes, is also the things that you have
Speaker 3: control over that you know about how you move through relationships,
Speaker 3: And I'm just curious from your perspective what you think
Speaker 3: impacts how you show up in a relationship and what
Speaker 3: are the arenas that you want to look at and
Speaker 3: strengthen or shift.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, thank you so much for acknowledging
Speaker 1: the trauma that I went through. I think when people
Speaker 1: hear me talk about they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, she's fine. No,
Speaker 1: I didn't say it was fine. I said I took
Speaker 1: care of it. You weren't listening to me. I didn't
Speaker 1: have the luxury.
Speaker 2: To not be fine.
Speaker 1: I two children, and my husband was a lot older
Speaker 1: than I was, and I just needed to make sure
Speaker 1: that my kids were in the best possible life. Ever,
Speaker 1: that's my responsibility, but doesn't mean that I didn't suffer.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that I wasn't feeling like absolutely, doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that I wasn't feeling wildly insecure. That doesn't mean any
Speaker 1: of that. So thank you for acknowledging that. Honestly, you
Speaker 1: can cry because I'm like no one ever everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fine, she's fine. Like no, No, Just because I handle
Speaker 1: things doesn't mean I don't feel.
Speaker 3: Yes, and there's something, Yeah, there's something particularly insidious someone
Speaker 3: like you who's entirely capable, and so it can appear
Speaker 3: as if it's quote fine, and of course in many
Speaker 3: ways it's completely fine because it had to be, and
Speaker 3: you have those internal resources and can curate the external
Speaker 3: ones needed. But the toll is silent and insidious to
Speaker 3: use my word again, And I think it's really important
Speaker 3: to keep that in mind about incredible, courageous women who
Speaker 3: are post divorced and doing all those things, to keep
Speaker 3: in mind that empathy and compassion and how vulnerable and
Speaker 3: scary it actually feels.
Speaker 1: I mean, also, I am a writer, and you know
Speaker 1: I worked with many many magazines. I have written many books,
Speaker 1: and it's my job to create narratives and especially in
Speaker 1: that situation, with my job to create narratives that kept
Speaker 1: my ex husband and my children both safe. So that's
Speaker 1: my job. That's I know, that's my job, and I
Speaker 1: know how to do it well. But doesn't mean again,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Like you know, when things
Speaker 1: cut with me, they get really really deep.
Speaker 2: I'm a Taurus.
Speaker 1: I love my friends, my family, I have a twin brother,
Speaker 1: I have great great I had great parents. I'm very,
Speaker 1: very fortunate to have love in my life.
Speaker 2: But I'm you.
Speaker 1: Know, I have I have a lot of fear and
Speaker 1: I have a lot of hurt.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of hurt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you for being so open and vulnerable
Speaker 3: about that. Because you're saying it, maybe maybe other women
Speaker 3: can feel like they can say it to them selves
Speaker 3: or to save others or both. You know thisms to
Speaker 3: be true. I mean one can be scared and heard
Speaker 3: and vulnerable and also be I live through your life
Speaker 3: in a really strong, you know way. It two things
Speaker 3: can be true at the same time. But I would
Speaker 3: be curious, like, from your perspective, what are thematically? What
Speaker 3: shows up in your relationships you know that you want
Speaker 3: to think about or work on.
Speaker 1: Or I think it's the same kind of just like
Speaker 1: you nailed it, like this curation. I think I'm constantly
Speaker 1: curating narratives for people.
Speaker 2: If they say, oh.
Speaker 1: I had a bad ex wife, I'm like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: these are the kind of things that you can work on.
Speaker 1: We can talk about it together. I'm here to you know,
Speaker 1: talk here, listen to you.
Speaker 2: But I don't want to do that. I don't want to.
Speaker 1: Be curating people's narratives like this is my life, this
Speaker 1: is I'm the person. I'm the main character energy here,
Speaker 1: not them, And I want I mean I got divorced
Speaker 1: with the intention of finding someone and finding more than
Speaker 1: finding love, but finding someone who was going to listen
Speaker 1: to me and be genuinely curious about me. I mean
Speaker 1: this's going to sound very strange, but I kind of
Speaker 1: thought about this the other day that there's the Kelly
Speaker 1: Bensimone personality that people see and they think, and then
Speaker 1: there's the Kelly Klaurin from Rockford, Illinois, and that's who
Speaker 1: they're dating. They're not dating Kelly Bensimone writer whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you know, all those different slashes and hypheness whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call them, they're dating me.
Speaker 2: And it really.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because it's like everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're an attachment kind of style, Like, oh no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna avoidant. I tie a boat on you to
Speaker 1: push you away. I'm not attaching to you unless we're
Speaker 1: I really feel like I can actually trust you, which
Speaker 1: is very very hard for me. What are your thoughts
Speaker 1: on that? Do you think I'm an attachment.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I don't like to put such heavy labels.
Speaker 3: It sounds like, you know, you've cultivated a coping strategy
Speaker 3: that keeps your vulnerability somewhat at bay, but it's not attractable.
Speaker 3: And I feel like when people talk about attachment styles,
Speaker 3: it makes it feel intractable and impossible to like address
Speaker 3: and take on as if it can't be shifted or
Speaker 3: thought about it in a different way. I mean, what
Speaker 3: you said at the beginning is so insightful and profound
Speaker 3: and meaningful, meaning that your tendency to help people create narratives,
Speaker 3: which I'm translating into you taking care of people, right,
Speaker 3: you helping people make meaning of their own lives and
Speaker 3: you know whatever, we want to call it, saving them,
Speaker 3: rescuing them, being of counsel to them. And that does
Speaker 3: a number of things. I mean, first of all, it's
Speaker 3: lovely in a beautiful skill of yours. I don't I'm
Speaker 3: not saying that majorata of I mean it, And I
Speaker 3: imagine it's a comfort zone of yours that you're really
Speaker 3: good at it, and so you might immediately go there
Speaker 3: because it feels like a position of strength for you.
Speaker 3: It feels like something you do well, and it's compelling.
Speaker 3: But too much of it without like emotional diversification, means
Speaker 3: that there's automatically a power imbalance or some kind of imbalance,
Speaker 3: namely that you're the one, as you said, putting a
Speaker 3: bow on people's stories, and your vulnerability doesn't have a
Speaker 3: way in and I imagine part of you does that
Speaker 3: purposely right to protect yourself. And I imagine part of
Speaker 3: you does that habitually because you're used to it.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, as a writer, your job is to
Speaker 1: synthesize information.
Speaker 2: So that's what I do.
Speaker 1: Is I hear what a person is saying, I synthesize it,
Speaker 1: I process it, and then I say, well, here's my
Speaker 1: takeaway for you.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's not what I want to do my on.
Speaker 1: A Tuesday at eight o'clock at night. I don't want
Speaker 1: to be listening to someone and synthesizing for them and
Speaker 1: promising for them.
Speaker 2: Like I do that all day long.
Speaker 1: I don't need to do it at home, so I
Speaker 1: need to So to your point, like, that isn't what.
Speaker 2: I want to do. I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not a savior. I'm not someone that saves you.
Speaker 1: I'm someone that kind of like, listen, I listen to men.
Speaker 1: So men really are attracted to me, which is very
Speaker 1: nice and very you know, obviously a beautiful thing. But
Speaker 1: I also have a twin brother, so I'm not intimidated.
Speaker 1: So when I talk to men, I'm not like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, he talked to me and he called me.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh he called me.
Speaker 2: That was nice.
Speaker 1: Made a nice time. Like I don't have those those
Speaker 1: kind of male relationships because I don't understand the male brand.
Speaker 1: But I'm a twin, like I'm just I have a
Speaker 1: I just feel very comfortable and confident around men, which
Speaker 1: is also complicated. I'm complicated, Hillary, I'm complicated.
Speaker 3: Well, here's a challenge, is that maybe you will feel
Speaker 3: potentially less comfortable in quotes around man or a man
Speaker 3: if you don't immediately embody the role of synthesizer. Right.
Speaker 3: And when I say not comfortable, I mean just more vulnerable,
Speaker 3: more present, more open, you know. For I often say
Speaker 3: this to clients and it sounds so obvious, but it
Speaker 3: feels poignant. It's like, for things to be different, you
Speaker 3: have to do something differently.
Speaker 1: You have to.
Speaker 3: You can have all the insight in the world from
Speaker 3: the best therapist, you know, the most amazing friends, but
Speaker 3: if you don't do something behaviorally that is different, you're
Speaker 3: going to have the same result. You really have to
Speaker 3: pair insight with different behavior to have something feel different.
Speaker 3: And so, you know, showing up and deliberately preventing yourself
Speaker 3: from doing that, maybe you can do it a little.
Speaker 3: But guiding yourself to sit in the silence and the
Speaker 3: awkwardness and the discomfort, you know, and might compel him
Speaker 3: whoever he is, to ask a question or to get
Speaker 3: more curious about you rather than filling the space with
Speaker 3: what you know.
Speaker 1: I just I went on a date this past couple
Speaker 1: of days and the guy was just kind of like,
Speaker 1: how long you've been single? And he's He's like, honestly, like,
Speaker 1: I really don't care. I just if you want to
Speaker 1: talk about it, you can. I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not that I care about how long that I've
Speaker 1: been single. I just want you to know that it's
Speaker 1: not like I'm waiting around to be in a relationships relationship.
Speaker 1: I just want to enjoy myself.
Speaker 2: Like I'm at that.
Speaker 1: Stage of my life in my career where I am
Speaker 1: in all the businesses that I run, I'm just very
Speaker 1: comfortable and I'm just looking for just someone to like.
Speaker 1: I had such a nice time at dinner with him,
Speaker 1: and I just like, I'm just looking to enjoy my life.
Speaker 1: And he literally his face like just kind of melted.
Speaker 1: Instead of him being like, she wants to get married
Speaker 1: tomorrow and.
Speaker 2: She wants to do these things and she needs this,
Speaker 2: and she dos.
Speaker 1: That he was just like he was like, I'm so
Speaker 1: happy to meet you. And I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Like I approached this in a different way, and I
Speaker 1: didn't even know that I was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just felt different.
Speaker 3: That's really interesting. Yeah, and you were able to follow
Speaker 3: that energy and speak and embody a truth that was compelling.
Speaker 3: You know, the more alignment we're in, the more compelling
Speaker 3: it is. I think.
Speaker 1: I also was just in a major car accident, a
Speaker 1: really serious car accident, two weeks ago, and.
Speaker 2: I am just I just was like I.
Speaker 1: Woke up one morning and I'm like, what am I doing.
Speaker 1: My twin brothers like Kelly, He's like, one second more,
Speaker 1: you would have been dead. He's like, do you realize,
Speaker 1: like how lucky you are? And I know that sounds,
Speaker 1: you know, very cliche. I had this moment, this cathartic moment.
Speaker 1: I changed, I would changed. I just feel differently about
Speaker 1: and I'm approaching things in a different way because I'm
Speaker 1: grateful for where I am, genuinely.
Speaker 3: One of one of the elements to bring into your
Speaker 3: pursuit relationally is is vulnerability around wanting to be known. Right.
Speaker 3: You don't want to be the only curator of stories.
Speaker 3: You want that to be mutual you want someone to
Speaker 3: know you, which you should want someone to know you
Speaker 3: mutually for that reciprocity to occur, and even going in
Speaker 3: with that intention of wanting to be known, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, you might even put words to that that
Speaker 3: like along the lines of like, hey, I just want
Speaker 3: to be in good company with someone and enjoy space,
Speaker 3: like you could add I want to be I want
Speaker 3: to know someone. I want to be known, you know,
Speaker 3: as part of like what you're looking for.
Speaker 2: Actually love that.
Speaker 1: I love that you just want to be known, and
Speaker 1: I love it. And I mean I don't have those educated,
Speaker 1: articulate words, but I did say something a little bit
Speaker 1: along the lines, which again like gave him that opportunity
Speaker 1: to just relax and not be afraid.
Speaker 3: Yes, and also keeps you accountable from from embodying that
Speaker 3: same role over and over again of being the one
Speaker 3: to know the other.
Speaker 1: I want to your advice about dating, you know, I went,
Speaker 1: I'm back on Hinge and Ryan, I'm like, Okay, I'm going.
Speaker 2: To actually like do you want to go on date?
Speaker 2: Let's do Let's go on a date.
Speaker 1: But like all my friends are like, oh, he's asking
Speaker 1: me specific questions I'm like, I'm not asking anyone anything anymore.
Speaker 1: I am so tired of asking them questions. That's boring me.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just like.
Speaker 1: I just want to have you, get you for two
Speaker 1: hours and people present who exactly who they are. They
Speaker 1: tell you I don't need to ask the questions. They
Speaker 1: are ready to tell you, and they tell you exactly
Speaker 1: what you're like, Hey, I'm floating, they're floating. Hey, you know,
Speaker 1: Max wife was really really mean to me, and I'm
Speaker 1: looking for someone that's not mean to me. They're looking
Speaker 1: they're telling you or me and or me what the
Speaker 1: story is. And I was just like I wented a
Speaker 1: couple of days. These guys seemed really really nice. They're
Speaker 1: all very educated, nice jobs everything, and I just was like,
Speaker 1: I can't do this.
Speaker 2: I just can't do this. I was like, it's not
Speaker 2: going to go forward. I just can't.
Speaker 1: I can't be interviewed every single time and go on
Speaker 1: a date and I can't have you like tap dancing
Speaker 1: around me, like you know, let's have a glass of wine. Great,
Speaker 1: I'll meet you for half an hour. Like I need
Speaker 1: you to just be like available and wanted to do
Speaker 1: things and just like seeing how things go versus creating
Speaker 1: some kind of like one, two, three, let's get to
Speaker 1: the third. Yeah, so how do I how do I
Speaker 1: tell these men stop triving to the third third date
Speaker 1: so we can have sex?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 2: That was long winned.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, but I needed the background actually, you know,
Speaker 3: kind of aligning with what we were just saying about
Speaker 3: the notion of wanting to be known. I mean, I
Speaker 3: think you could directly say that, you know that, Like,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm a I'm in a phase. I'm in a
Speaker 3: season where I want to be like slow, deliberate, have
Speaker 3: like companionship. I want to know someone. I want to
Speaker 3: be known, and I want to like slow roll the
Speaker 3: other stuff I just do. And that might be resonant
Speaker 3: for you. It might not be like you can you
Speaker 3: let me know?
Speaker 1: But a lot of the guys are like they're saying
Speaker 1: to me, like, if you don't have sex with someone,
Speaker 1: you don't know how you feel about them. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: first of all, you're not going to sex with me. Like,
Speaker 1: I'm just not like that anyway. I'm I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm i am not on no one else's time of
Speaker 1: my own. If I feel like having sex with you,
Speaker 1: we will have sex. If I do not have feel
Speaker 1: like having sex, if we might not have sex for
Speaker 1: a month, yes, that's no harm, no foul like, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's just who I am. If you cannot wait for
Speaker 1: the month, then you're not going to be dating me.
Speaker 3: I think you have the answer already inside of you.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just to kind of clarify it for
Speaker 3: you and for other women and women listening that any
Speaker 3: narrative that sex must happen in a particular time frame
Speaker 3: for your potential male partner, is there a narrative, and
Speaker 3: it doesn't make it bad or wrong, but it is theirs,
Speaker 3: and you don't have to adopt it. Obviously, pressure is
Speaker 3: a whole other thing. But if someone is still respectfully
Speaker 3: or playfully or something you know, putting forth this narrative,
Speaker 3: you can listen to it and respect it, but clearly
Speaker 3: stay like it just doesn't rest with me. For me,
Speaker 3: I like to have it unfold slowly, and for me,
Speaker 3: sex comes on the back of more time and more
Speaker 3: emotional connection, and it doesn't make you wrong in me right,
Speaker 3: But that is who I am. And I think there's
Speaker 3: some real empowerment in being able to look up person
Speaker 3: in the eye and say this is who I am
Speaker 3: and feel really good about it rather than feeling like
Speaker 3: you're compromising an opportunity. It might sound cliche, but if
Speaker 3: that isn't resonant with someone that can't be your person,
Speaker 3: it's a pretty low bar ask, right.
Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of men think that
Speaker 1: if they do try to get me to have sex,
Speaker 1: then they're going to lock me in or I'm a
Speaker 1: locker in with sex because I'm having sex with her
Speaker 1: and she can only have sex with me and because
Speaker 1: she doesn't want, you know, and I'm just like what
Speaker 1: is going on? Like yeah, I'm like, wait, what I would?
Speaker 3: I would be even more direct than you have been,
Speaker 3: you know that, Like in case it's confusing, like this
Speaker 3: is this is my state of the union on sex, right?
Speaker 3: You know that it's it's on the back of time
Speaker 3: and companionship and emotional connection and that you know, if
Speaker 3: that's not resonant, totally cool, like, but just not going
Speaker 3: to be an alignment for me.
Speaker 1: Okay. Final thoughts for women that are like me that
Speaker 1: I don't know what to ask men on a date, Like,
Speaker 1: give me like two questions I should ask men on
Speaker 1: my first date.
Speaker 3: Gosh, I mean to be honest. I look, if there
Speaker 3: are questions that come up that feel organic, ask them,
Speaker 3: you know, sort of all the typical questions like like
Speaker 3: what got you here? Like what season are you in?
Speaker 3: Relationship wise? You know, you know, what's what's resonant for
Speaker 3: you in your life right now? Like what are the
Speaker 3: things that make you you? You know kind of thing
Speaker 3: I think are fun, playful, like low pressure things. But
Speaker 3: also I don't think to your earlier point that one
Speaker 3: has to feel armed with a bunch of really compelling,
Speaker 3: unique questions. You know, first meetings, first dates are all
Speaker 3: fraught with those key parts you know of like awkwardness
Speaker 3: and weirdness and some prescriptedness. And I think that's okay,
Speaker 3: you know, even acknowledging that can sort of be like yep,
Speaker 3: I might ask you a bunch of questions that are
Speaker 3: standard fair for this first date, but doesn't make me
Speaker 3: less interested here I go. You know, you can narrate
Speaker 3: the process of awkwardness and strangeness. And I think there's
Speaker 3: anything particularly unique or special that one has to force
Speaker 3: themselves to bring, but rather to sort of acknowledge that, like,
Speaker 3: you know, I know this could be weird, but it
Speaker 3: doesn't make me less interested in like what your deal is, like,
Speaker 3: what your state of the union is, what do you
Speaker 3: like to do day to day? Like who are you?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Kind of thing. I think it's completely fine to narrate
Speaker 3: the awkwardness of it rather than pretend that it doesn't
Speaker 3: have that prescribed quality.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank you so much. I love the
Speaker 1: idea of being known, and I love the idea of
Speaker 1: taking space. I love those two takeaways, doctor Hillary.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so happy to see you, by the way.
Speaker 1: Oh god, often, Oh my god, you're fantastic, and you're
Speaker 1: just so articulate, and you're just very very very easy
Speaker 1: to talk to. Appreciate you.
Speaker 3: It's so good to see you, Kelly.
Speaker 1: And thank you for acknowledging my fear. And I really
Speaker 1: that means a lot. That really means a lot to
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, all right, all right?
Speaker 1: Are you like me and trying to navigate this crazy
Speaker 1: world of dating? Do you have questions or need advice?
Speaker 1: Send us an email or leave us a voicemail. All
Speaker 1: the info are in the show notes and follow us
Speaker 1: on socials. I do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast where
Speaker 1: falling in love is the main objective.