WEBVTT - Men Only Want Me For Sex…How Do I Change That? 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.320 Hey I do for two it's your celebrity mentor Kelly 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.720 ben smone And today I'm going to basically open up 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:25.960 and have my own therapy session on air. 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:26.720 Scary. 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:31.280 Yes, hopefully I can gain something out of this for 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.840 all of us. Today. I'm joined today by my great friend, 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:36.360 doctor Hillary Goldher. 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:38.760 She's a psychologist who does. 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:42.159 Extensive work in the area of relationships, helping couples as 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.440 well as individuals in all areas of life before marriage, 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:52.760 during marriage, separated divorce, and high conflict divorce. Welcome, doctor 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:59.160 Hillary Hiver. Oh, hi, Hi, So I have some questions 0:00:59.160 --> 0:00:59.360 for you. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.240 I'm here for it. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.520 I want to give you a little background of like 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:07.640 where I you know, how I got to where I 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:14.080 am today. So I got divorced in two thousand and 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:20.880 seven and mediator I took care of everything, got him 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.399 a new girlfriend, locked him up, just took everything, like 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.080 in control so my kids. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:27.400 Would be happy, he'd be happy. 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.959 And when on a television show, thought that I was 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.200 going to be, you know, feeling free and you know, 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.360 able to like nowdate people who you know, really cared 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:44.399 about me and wanted to be with me, And that 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.679 didn't work out because it was just like all of 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.120 these like entertainment kind of poser kind of people, which 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:54.360 was super disappointing. And then, you know, day try to 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.720 date some people that were on entertainment because I was like, Okay, 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.440 he's entertainment, I'm entertainment. Let's figure this out. That did 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:05.840 not work out, and then retired from the show and started, 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:11.160 you know, working on my own writing books and working 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.840 with in the jewelry and partnership space with collaborations, which 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.040 was so much fun, but I was laser focused on 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.520 making money, providing for my kids and making sure they 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.000 were safe cut too. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.400 I am now still single. 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:33.000 I was supposed to get married two years ago, found 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:34.720 out that the guy wasn't going to sign my prenup, 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.560 and just really found out that he wasn't who he 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:38.280 said he was. 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.040 And now I'm. 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.240 You know, out there dating. I met a really really 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.679 nice guy last year. We had a you know, such 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.000 a great relationship, and then I was going to go 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.600 on a show, and I just was afraid that he wasn't. 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.560 I didn't know what he wanted to do, but it 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:03.520 didn't seem like he was making definitive moves forward. I mean, 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.600 we were together, we were having a great time. We 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.280 were having fun, the kids are having a great time. 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.280 Everyone is having a great time. But that's not a relationship. 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.320 That's a friend and a fun friend, whatever you want. 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:16.320 To call them. Yeah. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.760 And then now I'm back on television. This is my 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:28.000 second season of a new show, and I'm still single. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.640 But the thing that's different this time around is now 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:37.480 I'm on HRT. So I'm single and I'm wildly ready 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.040 to meet someone. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.240 Well, I mean, first of all, I have a couple questions, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.160 but I'll just say this. I just want to remind 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:53.480 you and listeners that have similar stories around divorce that 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:58.320 divorce is really traumatic, and divorce with children, it's really 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.640 really traumatic, and there are a lot even in the 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.520 best of circumstances, And I don't know what yours were, 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:07.480 but they don't sound like they qualify for the best 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.119 of circumstances. But even under the best of circumstances, it's 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.320 really really hard and it takes a while for the mind, body, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:19.680 spirit to recover. And I think it has an impact 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.920 that people don't even realize until they realize it is 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.880 a real paradigm shift and a version of an existential crisis, 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:33.640 especially with kids and so you doing a version of 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:38.120 relationally reeling posted divorce for this period of time is 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.360 not that surprising. I don't mean that related to you specifically, 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.159 I just mean in general, it's a lot to recover from. 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:46.440 And so I just think having a version of like 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.520 empathy and understanding that you're going to have some trauma 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:54.720 responses and emotional hangover from your experience that's going to 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.479 impact how you move through relationships for this season. I'm 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.520 sure you're list to not to have that always be 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.080 the case, but I just kind of want to honor 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.520 that truth because I think it's sacred and not something 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.640 to be suppressed or rushed through. I think said that, 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:15.039 I am curious from your perspective. You know, the only 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.279 thing you and I have at this moment besides like 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.160 twenty thirty minutes, is also the things that you have 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.960 control over that you know about how you move through relationships, 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.560 And I'm just curious from your perspective what you think 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:31.960 impacts how you show up in a relationship and what 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.000 are the arenas that you want to look at and 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:36.200 strengthen or shift. 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.280 Well, first of all, thank you so much for acknowledging 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.680 the trauma that I went through. I think when people 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.359 hear me talk about they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, she's fine. No, 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.240 I didn't say it was fine. I said I took 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.600 care of it. You weren't listening to me. I didn't 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.000 have the luxury. 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:52.960 To not be fine. 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.599 I two children, and my husband was a lot older 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.360 than I was, and I just needed to make sure 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:04.320 that my kids were in the best possible life. Ever, 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.359 that's my responsibility, but doesn't mean that I didn't suffer. 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.280 Doesn't mean that I wasn't feeling like absolutely, doesn't mean 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.680 that I wasn't feeling wildly insecure. That doesn't mean any 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.440 of that. So thank you for acknowledging that. Honestly, you 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.520 can cry because I'm like no one ever everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.440 it's fine, she's fine. Like no, No, Just because I handle 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.640 things doesn't mean I don't feel. 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:32.480 Yes, and there's something, Yeah, there's something particularly insidious someone 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.440 like you who's entirely capable, and so it can appear 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.920 as if it's quote fine, and of course in many 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.680 ways it's completely fine because it had to be, and 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.839 you have those internal resources and can curate the external 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.400 ones needed. But the toll is silent and insidious to 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.640 use my word again, And I think it's really important 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.400 to keep that in mind about incredible, courageous women who 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.360 are post divorced and doing all those things, to keep 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.400 in mind that empathy and compassion and how vulnerable and 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:02.919 scary it actually feels. 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.560 I mean, also, I am a writer, and you know 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.640 I worked with many many magazines. I have written many books, 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:14.320 and it's my job to create narratives and especially in 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.920 that situation, with my job to create narratives that kept 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:21.200 my ex husband and my children both safe. So that's 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.360 my job. That's I know, that's my job, and I 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.920 know how to do it well. But doesn't mean again, 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.760 doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Like you know, when things 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.560 cut with me, they get really really deep. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:32.680 I'm a Taurus. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:37.320 I love my friends, my family, I have a twin brother, 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.320 I have great great I had great parents. I'm very, 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.800 very fortunate to have love in my life. 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.720 But I'm you. 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.360 Know, I have I have a lot of fear and 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:49.360 I have a lot of hurt. 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:50.400 I have a lot of hurt. 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:55.360 Yeah, yeah, thank you for being so open and vulnerable 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.720 about that. Because you're saying it, maybe maybe other women 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.440 can feel like they can say it to them selves 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.000 or to save others or both. You know thisms to 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.440 be true. I mean one can be scared and heard 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.120 and vulnerable and also be I live through your life 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.680 in a really strong, you know way. It two things 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.840 can be true at the same time. But I would 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.040 be curious, like, from your perspective, what are thematically? What 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.160 shows up in your relationships you know that you want 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.080 to think about or work on. 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.840 Or I think it's the same kind of just like 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.199 you nailed it, like this curation. I think I'm constantly 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.360 curating narratives for people. 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.079 If they say, oh. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:37.800 I had a bad ex wife, I'm like, oh, you know, 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:40.400 these are the kind of things that you can work on. 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.800 We can talk about it together. I'm here to you know, 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.079 talk here, listen to you. 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.440 But I don't want to do that. I don't want to. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.280 Be curating people's narratives like this is my life, this 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.320 is I'm the person. I'm the main character energy here, 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.520 not them, And I want I mean I got divorced 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.640 with the intention of finding someone and finding more than 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.720 finding love, but finding someone who was going to listen 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:11.360 to me and be genuinely curious about me. I mean 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.600 this's going to sound very strange, but I kind of 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.320 thought about this the other day that there's the Kelly 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.560 Bensimone personality that people see and they think, and then 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.560 there's the Kelly Klaurin from Rockford, Illinois, and that's who 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.880 they're dating. They're not dating Kelly Bensimone writer whatever it is, 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:31.160 you know, all those different slashes and hypheness whatever you 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.040 want to call them, they're dating me. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.040 And it really. 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.760 You know, it's interesting because it's like everyone's like, oh, 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.480 you're an attachment kind of style, Like, oh no, no, no, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.280 I'm gonna avoidant. I tie a boat on you to 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:52.280 push you away. I'm not attaching to you unless we're 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.080 I really feel like I can actually trust you, which 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.000 is very very hard for me. What are your thoughts 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.120 on that? Do you think I'm an attachment. 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:07.199 Well, you know, I don't like to put such heavy labels. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:12.760 It sounds like, you know, you've cultivated a coping strategy 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:17.680 that keeps your vulnerability somewhat at bay, but it's not attractable. 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.160 And I feel like when people talk about attachment styles, 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.480 it makes it feel intractable and impossible to like address 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.680 and take on as if it can't be shifted or 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.240 thought about it in a different way. I mean, what 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.480 you said at the beginning is so insightful and profound 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:40.040 and meaningful, meaning that your tendency to help people create narratives, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:44.680 which I'm translating into you taking care of people, right, 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.560 you helping people make meaning of their own lives and 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.199 you know whatever, we want to call it, saving them, 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.800 rescuing them, being of counsel to them. And that does 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:55.440 a number of things. I mean, first of all, it's 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.280 lovely in a beautiful skill of yours. I don't I'm 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.880 not saying that majorata of I mean it, And I 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.320 imagine it's a comfort zone of yours that you're really 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.000 good at it, and so you might immediately go there 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.680 because it feels like a position of strength for you. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.280 It feels like something you do well, and it's compelling. 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:18.480 But too much of it without like emotional diversification, means 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.480 that there's automatically a power imbalance or some kind of imbalance, 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.560 namely that you're the one, as you said, putting a 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:31.640 bow on people's stories, and your vulnerability doesn't have a 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.120 way in and I imagine part of you does that 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.680 purposely right to protect yourself. And I imagine part of 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.920 you does that habitually because you're used to it. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.199 Well, I mean, as a writer, your job is to 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:45.200 synthesize information. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:45.960 So that's what I do. 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.439 Is I hear what a person is saying, I synthesize it, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.400 I process it, and then I say, well, here's my 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:52.360 takeaway for you. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.600 Yes, yeah, that's not what I want to do my on. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.760 A Tuesday at eight o'clock at night. I don't want 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.960 to be listening to someone and synthesizing for them and 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:03.080 promising for them. 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:04.679 Like I do that all day long. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.840 I don't need to do it at home, so I 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:11.160 need to So to your point, like, that isn't what. 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:12.720 I want to do. I don't. I don't. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.040 I'm not a savior. I'm not someone that saves you. 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.160 I'm someone that kind of like, listen, I listen to men. 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.079 So men really are attracted to me, which is very 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.800 nice and very you know, obviously a beautiful thing. But 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.640 I also have a twin brother, so I'm not intimidated. 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.520 So when I talk to men, I'm not like, oh 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.079 my god, he talked to me and he called me. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:34.960 I'm like, oh he called me. 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:35.400 That was nice. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.160 Made a nice time. Like I don't have those those 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.560 kind of male relationships because I don't understand the male brand. 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.040 But I'm a twin, like I'm just I have a 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.360 I just feel very comfortable and confident around men, which 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:57.839 is also complicated. I'm complicated, Hillary, I'm complicated. 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.680 Well, here's a challenge, is that maybe you will feel 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:07.520 potentially less comfortable in quotes around man or a man 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:13.080 if you don't immediately embody the role of synthesizer. Right. 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.880 And when I say not comfortable, I mean just more vulnerable, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.480 more present, more open, you know. For I often say 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.720 this to clients and it sounds so obvious, but it 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.600 feels poignant. It's like, for things to be different, you 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:27.960 have to do something differently. 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:28.640 You have to. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.360 You can have all the insight in the world from 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.320 the best therapist, you know, the most amazing friends, but 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.040 if you don't do something behaviorally that is different, you're 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.840 going to have the same result. You really have to 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:44.880 pair insight with different behavior to have something feel different. 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:51.240 And so, you know, showing up and deliberately preventing yourself 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.439 from doing that, maybe you can do it a little. 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.000 But guiding yourself to sit in the silence and the 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:01.640 awkwardness and the discomfort, you know, and might compel him 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.839 whoever he is, to ask a question or to get 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.079 more curious about you rather than filling the space with 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:08.560 what you know. 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.320 I just I went on a date this past couple 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.600 of days and the guy was just kind of like, 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.520 how long you've been single? And he's He's like, honestly, like, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.800 I really don't care. I just if you want to 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.080 talk about it, you can. I was like, you know, 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.080 it's not that I care about how long that I've 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.480 been single. I just want you to know that it's 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:42.240 not like I'm waiting around to be in a relationships relationship. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:43.880 I just want to enjoy myself. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:44.640 Like I'm at that. 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.960 Stage of my life in my career where I am 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.360 in all the businesses that I run, I'm just very 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.160 comfortable and I'm just looking for just someone to like. 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.040 I had such a nice time at dinner with him, 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.400 and I just like, I'm just looking to enjoy my life. 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:06.480 And he literally his face like just kind of melted. 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.400 Instead of him being like, she wants to get married 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:09.920 tomorrow and. 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:11.360 She wants to do these things and she needs this, 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:12.080 and she dos. 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.200 That he was just like he was like, I'm so 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.000 happy to meet you. And I was like, oh my god, 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.080 Like I approached this in a different way, and I 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:24.840 didn't even know that I was. 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:27.800 Yeah, I just felt different. 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:32.000 That's really interesting. Yeah, and you were able to follow 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:37.000 that energy and speak and embody a truth that was compelling. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.760 You know, the more alignment we're in, the more compelling 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:40.600 it is. I think. 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.240 I also was just in a major car accident, a 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.800 really serious car accident, two weeks ago, and. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:50.640 I am just I just was like I. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.120 Woke up one morning and I'm like, what am I doing. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.840 My twin brothers like Kelly, He's like, one second more, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.040 you would have been dead. He's like, do you realize, 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.880 like how lucky you are? And I know that sounds, 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.320 you know, very cliche. I had this moment, this cathartic moment. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.480 I changed, I would changed. I just feel differently about 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.600 and I'm approaching things in a different way because I'm 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.520 grateful for where I am, genuinely. 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.920 One of one of the elements to bring into your 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:32.200 pursuit relationally is is vulnerability around wanting to be known. Right. 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.440 You don't want to be the only curator of stories. 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.520 You want that to be mutual you want someone to 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.520 know you, which you should want someone to know you 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:45.040 mutually for that reciprocity to occur, and even going in 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.360 with that intention of wanting to be known, you know, 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.280 I mean, you might even put words to that that 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.520 like along the lines of like, hey, I just want 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.400 to be in good company with someone and enjoy space, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.680 like you could add I want to be I want 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.520 to know someone. I want to be known, you know, 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:03.000 as part of like what you're looking for. 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:03.840 Actually love that. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:06.359 I love that you just want to be known, and 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:10.760 I love it. And I mean I don't have those educated, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:15.400 articulate words, but I did say something a little bit 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.119 along the lines, which again like gave him that opportunity 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.560 to just relax and not be afraid. 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:27.359 Yes, and also keeps you accountable from from embodying that 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.880 same role over and over again of being the one 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:30.680 to know the other. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.800 I want to your advice about dating, you know, I went, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.120 I'm back on Hinge and Ryan, I'm like, Okay, I'm going. 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:48.679 To actually like do you want to go on date? 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.200 Let's do Let's go on a date. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:52.560 But like all my friends are like, oh, he's asking 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.720 me specific questions I'm like, I'm not asking anyone anything anymore. 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.800 I am so tired of asking them questions. That's boring me. 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:01.320 Like I'm just like. 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.320 I just want to have you, get you for two 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:08.760 hours and people present who exactly who they are. They 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.719 tell you I don't need to ask the questions. They 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.400 are ready to tell you, and they tell you exactly 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.720 what you're like, Hey, I'm floating, they're floating. Hey, you know, 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:20.400 Max wife was really really mean to me, and I'm 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.520 looking for someone that's not mean to me. They're looking 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.919 they're telling you or me and or me what the 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.280 story is. And I was just like I wented a 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.560 couple of days. These guys seemed really really nice. They're 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.080 all very educated, nice jobs everything, and I just was like, 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:35.760 I can't do this. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.479 I just can't do this. I was like, it's not 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.640 going to go forward. I just can't. 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:43.720 I can't be interviewed every single time and go on 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.719 a date and I can't have you like tap dancing 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.920 around me, like you know, let's have a glass of wine. Great, 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:53.520 I'll meet you for half an hour. Like I need 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.719 you to just be like available and wanted to do 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:02.000 things and just like seeing how things go versus creating 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.560 some kind of like one, two, three, let's get to 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:09.800 the third. Yeah, so how do I how do I 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:14.360 tell these men stop triving to the third third date 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:15.399 so we can have sex? 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:16.480 Ah? 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:19.040 That was long winned. 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:23.040 Yeah, no, but I needed the background actually, you know, 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.359 kind of aligning with what we were just saying about 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.399 the notion of wanting to be known. I mean, I 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.679 think you could directly say that, you know that, Like, 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.479 I'm I'm a I'm in a phase. I'm in a 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.679 season where I want to be like slow, deliberate, have 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.159 like companionship. I want to know someone. I want to 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.639 be known, and I want to like slow roll the 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.479 other stuff I just do. And that might be resonant 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.280 for you. It might not be like you can you 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:46.800 let me know? 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.280 But a lot of the guys are like they're saying 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:50.760 to me, like, if you don't have sex with someone, 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:52.320 you don't know how you feel about them. I'm like, well, 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.040 first of all, you're not going to sex with me. Like, 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.640 I'm just not like that anyway. I'm I mean, I'm 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.280 I'm i am not on no one else's time of 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.600 my own. If I feel like having sex with you, 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.720 we will have sex. If I do not have feel 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:06.399 like having sex, if we might not have sex for 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:11.000 a month, yes, that's no harm, no foul like, Yes, 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.320 that's just who I am. If you cannot wait for 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.560 the month, then you're not going to be dating me. 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.800 I think you have the answer already inside of you. 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.639 I mean, I just to kind of clarify it for 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:29.800 you and for other women and women listening that any 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.200 narrative that sex must happen in a particular time frame 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:39.679 for your potential male partner, is there a narrative, and 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.359 it doesn't make it bad or wrong, but it is theirs, 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:46.040 and you don't have to adopt it. Obviously, pressure is 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:50.880 a whole other thing. But if someone is still respectfully 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.880 or playfully or something you know, putting forth this narrative, 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.760 you can listen to it and respect it, but clearly 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.240 stay like it just doesn't rest with me. For me, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.800 I like to have it unfold slowly, and for me, 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.360 sex comes on the back of more time and more 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.520 emotional connection, and it doesn't make you wrong in me right, 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.600 But that is who I am. And I think there's 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.959 some real empowerment in being able to look up person 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:18.680 in the eye and say this is who I am 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.119 and feel really good about it rather than feeling like 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:25.120 you're compromising an opportunity. It might sound cliche, but if 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:28.320 that isn't resonant with someone that can't be your person, 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.240 it's a pretty low bar ask, right. 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.199 And I feel like a lot of men think that 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.960 if they do try to get me to have sex, 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.440 then they're going to lock me in or I'm a 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:41.560 locker in with sex because I'm having sex with her 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:43.760 and she can only have sex with me and because 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:45.200 she doesn't want, you know, and I'm just like what 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:51.879 is going on? Like yeah, I'm like, wait, what I would? 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.080 I would be even more direct than you have been, 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.240