1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: This is the Bluemink Day Bank you At podcast. Good morning, 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, the twenty third of September. I'm Caroline Hepgitt 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: in London. Coming up today. Poland's Prime minister threatens to 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: shoot down Russian jets that enter its territory, as Baltic 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: countries raise the alarm over Kremlin provocations. Nvidia announces plans 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: for a one hundred billion dollar investment in Open AI 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: as big tech drives stocks to another record high plus 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: the absolute minimum. Thomas Picketty tells me he believes French 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 2: proposals for a two percent wealth tax don't go far enough. 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 2: Let's start with a roundup of our top stories across Europe. 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: NATO countries are increasingly sounding the alarm over the thread 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: posed by Putin following a series of airspace violations. Speaking yesterday, 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: the EUS top diplomat Kaya Kalas said Russia is testing 15 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 2: us how far it can go is Sonia's foreign minister 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 2: meanwhile warned that Putin is playing with fire. Lithuania's president 17 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: went even further, saying Moscow is probing the West's commitment 18 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: to retaliate. Now The chorus of warnings came as Prime 19 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: Minister Donald Tusk declared that Poland is prepared to shoot 20 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: down foreign aircraft that cross into its territory without authorization. 21 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: We are ready for any decision aimed at destroying objects 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 3: that might pose a threat to us, for example Russian 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 3: fighter jets if they violate, for example, flying over our 24 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 3: territorial waters. 25 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: Polish Prime Minister Donald TuS speaking there via a translator, 26 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: after NATO downed Russian drones that crossed into Poland earlier 27 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: this month. That was followed last week by three armed 28 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: Russian fighter jets entering Estonian airspace for twelve minutes, and 29 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: while Russia has denied the accusations of breaching European airspace, 30 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: NATO Sexuary General Mark Rutter will today join the alliance's 31 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: ambassadors to discuss the recent provocations. Now, in Vidia plans 32 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: to invest one hundred billion dollars in Open AI in 33 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: a deal that underlines the booming demand for AI tools 34 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 2: like chat GPT. The tie up will fund new data 35 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: centers and infrastructure equipped with Nvidia's advanced chips, and Vidia 36 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: CEO Jensen Wong discussed the partnership on CNBC. 37 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 4: There's never been an engineering project, a technical project of 38 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 4: this complexity, in this scale ever, And it really just 39 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 4: says that AI was in the early adopter phase in 40 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 4: the labs, and finally it's breaking out into just about 41 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 4: every single industry, every single use case we can imagine. 42 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: In that same interview, open AIS CEO Sam Altman says, 43 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: this is brit to everything that they want to do 44 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: moving forwards. 45 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 5: Without doing this, we cannot deliver the services people want. 46 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 5: We can't keep making better models. And now that we 47 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 5: really see what's on the near term horizon of how 48 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 5: good the models are getting, the new use cases that 49 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 5: are being enabled, what people want to do, this is 50 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 5: like the fuel that we need to drive improvement, to 51 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 5: drive better models, to drive revenue everything. 52 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: The two men spoke to CNBC to mark the deal, 53 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 2: which is the latest and largest in a string of 54 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: investments by Nvidia. The chip making giant is using its 55 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: financial might to make sure its technology remains at the 56 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: heart of AI tools well. The S and P five 57 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: hundred logged its twenty eighth record high this year as 58 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: in Vidia search after news of its one hundred billion 59 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: dollar open AI partnership. Although doubts are growing about the 60 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: returns from artificial intelligence. A new report from Bain and 61 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: Company warns that by twenty thirty, AI firms will need 62 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: two trillion dollars a year in revenue. That's in order 63 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: to fund data centers and computing power, but their revenues, 64 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: according to the consulting firm, may fall short by eight 65 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: hundred billion dollars. It adds that if scaling trends hold up, 66 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: AI will strain global supply chains and energy systems. The 67 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: US demand alone would account for half the projected two 68 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: hundred gigawatts of computing power needed by twenty thirty. Here 69 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: in the UK, more than eighty percent of executives at 70 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 2: London listed firms say that they have considered either a 71 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: secondary listing or moving to a different stock market. The 72 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: poll of one hundred and fifty business leaders by broker 73 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: Deutsche Numis suggests low valuations are still worrying the corporate world. 74 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's James or Coock has more. 75 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 6: If four and five of the people at your birthday 76 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 6: said they had thought about leaving, it would be a 77 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 6: pretty miserable affair. Nu MISUS annual survey of executives suggests 78 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 6: that's the case for the London stock exchange. Low valuations 79 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 6: has seen is the key factor, but it's not all 80 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 6: bad news. New York is seen as losing some of 81 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 6: its appeal. One of those polls saw London as an 82 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 6: attractive venue for IPOs, and nearly all of them thought 83 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 6: the government's coming pension reforms would drive growth in the 84 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 6: equity market in London. James Wilcock Bloomberg Radio. 85 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 2: FED Governor Stephen Myron says that interest rates should be 86 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 2: much lower to avoid economic damage. In his first policy 87 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: speech since joining the Central Bank, he argued that the 88 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: neutral rate has been pushed lower by tariffs, immigration restrictions, 89 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: and tax policy. It's a view that aligns Myron with 90 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, who appointed him, but makes him an outlier 91 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 2: in terms of US policymakers. Speaking to Bloomberg, Shillahem, I've 92 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: seen he denied being directly influenced by the President. 93 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 7: He's never asked me to say paulsy in a specific way, 94 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 7: so anyery, he never asked me. It's never happened. I 95 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 7: knew my job as trying to provoke in interesting discussion. 96 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 7: That will help, that will help the FMC arrive at 97 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 7: arrive at clearer understandings of wit the economy works and 98 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 7: where Monterey Polis should be. 99 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: Set Stephen Myron speaking there during an event at the 100 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 2: Economic Club of New York. He added that he is 101 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: likely to continue to dissent at future FED meetings. Until 102 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: his appointment to the FED, Myron served as chair of 103 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,119 Speaker 2: the White House Council of Economic Advisors. He didn't resign 104 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 2: from that post, but is taking an unpaid leave of 105 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: absence and larc Disney says that ABC's Jimmy Kimmel Live 106 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: will be back on air on Tuesday after a brief suspension. 107 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 2: The network pulled the late night show on the seventeenth 108 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: of September because of remarks that Kimmel made about the 109 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: alleged assassination of the conservative activist Charlie Kirk. But despite 110 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: the return, Bloomberg's Chris palm Mary says, questions remain over 111 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: the presenter's next steps. 112 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 8: There have been discussions at the highest level we understand 113 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 8: from Disney CEO Bob Vieger and Dana Walden, the head 114 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 8: of TV, directly with Jimmy Kimmel himself, over what the 115 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 8: future would hold. Right now, we don't know how any 116 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 8: details in terms of what he's going to say on Tuesday, 117 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 8: But part of that has you know, there have been 118 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 8: calls from some of the station owners for him to 119 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 8: apologize to Charlie Kurk's family, even make a donation. 120 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: So that was b bigs. Chris Palmery there in Los Angeles. 121 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: ABC made the decision to Paul Kimmel's program after two 122 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: station owners, Next Star and Sinclair, said that they would 123 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: preempt Kimmel indefinitely. The company says that it has since 124 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: had quote thoughtful conversations with Kimmel, but gave no details 125 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,679 Speaker 2: on how the show will address the controversy. Jimmy Kimmel's 126 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: contract with the network runs until twenty twenty six. So 127 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: those are some of our top stories for you this morning. 128 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: Looking at the markets, Asian stocks still hovering near a 129 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: record but struggling to find new propellers. So the cs 130 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: I three hundred is actually down by one point two percent, 131 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: the Hank says. Also, the Old Country World Index is flat. 132 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: The MASCI Asia Pacific Index is actually slightly nudging into 133 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: the red. This after Wall Street's record again the S 134 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: and P five hundred climbing to a fresh record high 135 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: twenty eighth for this year. Remember David Costin of Gold 136 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: and Sacks boosted their three month price target for the 137 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: S and P five hundred to six eight hundred on Friday, 138 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: so some people do still see more gains. European stocks 139 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: struggled the little change that the closed yesterday. Still futures 140 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: for Europe are up just about a tenth of one 141 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: percent in the red for the US looking at ten 142 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: year treasury yields ahead of the inflation figure that we 143 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 2: don't get till Friday four fourteen for ten year US 144 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: treasury yields. Of course, Hong Kong though partly down this 145 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 2: morning as the city faces damage from Typhoon Ragasa, so 146 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 2: really a very very damaging typhoon, the worse since twenty eighteen. 147 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: Gold has also hit record highs today. Those are the 148 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 2: markets now. In a moment, I'm going to bring you 149 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: the la on the increasing tensions between Russia and NATO, 150 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: as well as my conversation with the French economist and 151 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: author of Cattle in the twenty first Century, Thomas Picketty, 152 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 2: talking about the wealth tax, much discussed in France right now. 153 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: But before we get into those conversations, another story caught 154 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: my attention this morning. This is cosmetic procedures that apparently 155 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: are offering a big result minimal downtime. Bloomberg's Arvalis Vonilla 156 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: Ramos has been writing about this, summarizing all the many 157 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: surgical and injectible beauty treatments out there, speaking to six 158 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: dermatologists and plastic surgeons. I just love the breadth of 159 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: the things that our writers are interested in, and I'm 160 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: sure that you are too. So she's got the non 161 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: invasive soft wave MFHASE skin boosters, but of course she 162 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 2: goes to botox, still the king of injectables, but she 163 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: talks a lot about how it's being used in new 164 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: and different ways. I found it quite quite kind of fascinating. Also, 165 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: I am slightly squeamish, so I found it a bit 166 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 2: strange too, all the doctors that she spoke to for 167 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 2: the article saying, don't confuse minimally invasive and quick recovery 168 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: times with it being easy. The treatments need someone you 169 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: know with a degree of expertise to perform. But also 170 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: she points out, you know just how much more discerning 171 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: and knowledgeable a lot of users of these treatments are now. Anyway, 172 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: I thought it was a really interesting story so I'm 173 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: going to put a link to it in our show 174 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 2: notes so that you can read about all of these wonderful, 175 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: weird and wonderful new creations for you now. Baltic leaders 176 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 2: say that Russia is testing NATO after three armed fighter 177 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: jets entered Estonian airspace last week, and there were the 178 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 2: drone incursions into NATO member states Poland and Romania earlier 179 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: this month. So I wanted to discuss this top story 180 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 2: this morning, the kind of lurking threat in Europe. Stuart 181 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: Livingstone Wallace heads Bloomberg's coverage in Greater Russia as well 182 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 2: as the Middle East in North Africa, and he joins 183 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: me today Stuart, good morning. How would you assess the 184 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: level of pressure and probing by Vladimir Putin against NATO 185 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: right now? 186 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 9: Yeah, good morning, Caroline. 187 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 10: I mean it is, I suppose deeply concerning in some 188 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 10: respects because while you know, since the war in Ukraine 189 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 10: started we have had the odd missile and drones and 190 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 10: austral into surrounding territory. I think most people have assumed 191 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 10: those sort of mistakes either you know the computers were 192 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 10: jammed or you know mistakes were made. This looks a 193 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 10: lot more deliberate, and it looks very concerted, and as 194 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 10: you say, the sort of it's happened so often now 195 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 10: that you know it can no longer be regarded as 196 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 10: a mistake, particularly on the scale that we've seen it, 197 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 10: you know, and we look at what the reaction has been. 198 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 10: So for instance, we had opponents Prime Minister Don tass 199 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 10: saying quite recently the sort of, in his view, the 200 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 10: closest we've come to open conflicts since World War Two. 201 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 10: Now that may be a slight exaggeration, but I think 202 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 10: it gives you a flavor of the deepening concern. And again, 203 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 10: what is unprecedented is that you've seen this mass reaction 204 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 10: from some of the NATO members at least to kind 205 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 10: of shore up that Eastern flank with this sort of 206 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 10: new mission that they have called Eastern Century, where you've 207 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 10: had you know, the lights of the UK flying fighter 208 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 10: jets into that zone to make it clear, hopefully to 209 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 10: the Russians that there will be consequences if they send 210 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 10: masses of drones or their own fighter jets into that airspace. 211 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, because the response in terms of what it looks 212 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: like at the moment from Estonia, you know, they don't 213 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: have great air defenses or not substantial ones themselves in place. 214 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: Is that what I understand from this? And I suppose 215 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 2: the question is what may come next, you know, from NATO, 216 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 2: from Poland? 217 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 10: I mean I think the steps are, you know, they 218 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 10: want to see how this new mission is received and 219 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 10: whether you get this sort of increasing instance. But there 220 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 10: is an open question mark if Russia continues to do this, 221 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 10: either in the the you know, the existing countries where 222 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 10: you've seen these incursions, or you know, a wider spread 223 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 10: of NATO members, what exactly is the NATA response, Because 224 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 10: at least on paper you have as you know, of 225 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 10: Article five, you know, will that actually be in forced? 226 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 10: And our suspicions are that that is kind of what 227 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 10: Russia is testing and trying to show may not be 228 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 10: worth the paper it's written on. And and by that 229 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 10: I mean, you know, are are the NATO members really 230 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 10: prepared to go to war? You know, should things escalate, 231 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 10: And that's that's not always clear, And particularly with regard 232 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 10: to the US, would the US really deployed, say there 233 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 10: was another incursion into Estonian airspace? Again, I think that's 234 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 10: what's being tested here, and certainly you've seen the sort 235 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 10: of the bulk of NATO members very clearly trying to 236 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 10: send that signal. But absolutely that's what would happen. Now, 237 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 10: whether that is successful or not, I guess we'll see 238 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 10: over the next few weeks. 239 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, signal, counter signal and actions. What's the latest then 240 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: when it comes You mentioned the US and they're pushed 241 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 2: to pressure Russia over its war in Ukraine, but not directly, 242 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: rather via third party countries. And what they buy from 243 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: Russia oil and LNG. 244 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, in short, not terribly successful. So just 245 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 10: to sort of, you know, throw a few stats out there, 246 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 10: I mean, when you're looking at LNG for instance, you know, 247 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 10: the energy is still flowing, and based on our reporting 248 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 10: from gosh, it was about a week ago or so 249 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 10: out of Asia, it looks like China seems to be 250 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 10: setting up a system to import regular cargoes of energy 251 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 10: from a Russian project, which is the Sacline project that 252 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 10: is already sanctioned by the US. On the oil side, again, 253 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 10: our reporting would seem to indicate that Russia's cruise shipments 254 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 10: are at a three month high, you know, driven primarily 255 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 10: out of the Black Sea, but you know, more widely 256 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 10: than that, so at least based on the evidence that 257 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 10: we can see now, it doesn't seem to be having 258 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 10: much of an impact. Again, that situation can change very quickly. 259 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 10: So for instance, if the US decides that it's going 260 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 10: to impose much harder secondary sanctions, if it's actually going 261 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 10: to enforce them, of it's going to have financial points 262 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 10: for it, then then we may see that change. But 263 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 10: based on the data we can see now, it doesn't 264 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 10: seem to be a lot of evidence that Russia's energy 265 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 10: exports are collapsing. 266 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: Okay, Suett, thank you so much for being with me today. 267 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: Livingstone Wallace, who heads our coverage of Greater Russia as 268 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 2: well as the Middle East and North Africa. So talking 269 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 2: about NATO's response to the airspace incursions into NATO countries 270 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: here in Europe. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Daybaqube 271 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: coming up after this. Thomas Picketty is one of the 272 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: world's most well known and popular economists. His best selling book, 273 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,359 Speaker 2: Capital in the twenty first Century argued for wealth taxes 274 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: some decade ago to address inequality in society. Now he's 275 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 2: been telling me that in France, where his ideas could 276 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: be put into reality, billionaires should be taxed like anyone 277 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: else and even be arrested at the airport if they 278 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: try to avoid paying. We also talked about Rachel reevesil 279 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: on Mask and how France escapes its fiscal woes. I 280 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: began by asking him if he would endorse the proposal 281 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: from France's socialist lawmakers for a two percent tax on 282 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: wealthy people in the country. 283 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 9: Oh, yes, this is the absolute minimum. 284 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 11: I mean the probably that it's it's not going to 285 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 11: serve the you know, again, given the size of the 286 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 11: public that the size of all the new investments that's needed, 287 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 11: you know, that will not be sufficient. But yes, that's 288 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 11: a that's a useful minimum to stuff the two percent. 289 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: There's a big debate about how much it's really going 290 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: to raise. You say that it's inevitable, that it has 291 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: to be done, and if you want to stay in power, 292 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 2: be in power in European countries and in France included, 293 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: you need it. But there's a massive debate about how 294 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: much annually that two percent wealth tax would actually raise 295 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 2: the high numbers of fifteen to twenty billion, but actually 296 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 2: as low as three point eight or below five billion 297 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: a year. You're obviously in the higher camp. But what 298 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: happens if it's much much less. 299 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 11: The only way you can you can debate it by 300 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 11: four from twenty to five, is if you start from 301 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 11: the assumption that you know, top twels holders can evade 302 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 11: seventy five percent of the tax and there is nothing we. 303 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 9: Can do about it. 304 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 11: But you know, if you start from this assumption, you know, 305 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 11: you put yourself first. 306 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 9: This is not a natural law. 307 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 11: You know, you cannot say, oh, this is the law 308 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 11: coming from the sky. You know, his economic science has 309 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 11: told me that people can escape seventy five percent of 310 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 11: the tax. There's nothing you can do about it. But 311 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 11: you have to be very careful because when you make 312 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 11: this kind of claim and you pretain you talk in 313 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 11: the name of science of rationality, and you tell people 314 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 11: there's just no way we can make these people pay 315 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 11: the tax on there because everybody agree. 316 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 9: You know, let's be very clear in terms of numbers. 317 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 9: Everybody agrees. 318 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 11: At the top five hundred wealth soldiers in France, which 319 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 11: is exactly the people who are targeted by the tax, 320 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 11: have a total wealth of over one thousand billion. You're 321 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 11: one thousand, two hundred billion, So everybody agrees that two 322 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 11: percent of this is going to make twenty twenty five. 323 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 11: So if you want to reduce this tax free, you 324 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 11: estimate to five. If you want to divide it by four, 325 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 11: you have to say in one way or another that 326 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 11: you know you will be able to tax only one 327 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 11: quarter or the wealth of these people. 328 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 9: So you have to make the client. 329 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 3: It's just. 330 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: Leave the country. That's the issues. If the people leave 331 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 2: the country. 332 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 11: But they're still you can you can still be liable 333 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 11: to that. 334 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: Yes, So then that's the idea of the five year plan, 335 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: even if you were to live. 336 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 9: Yeah, I think the simplest way to do it. 337 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 11: You know, in the US they say, as long as 338 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 11: you keep the US citizenship, it's forever. I don't think 339 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 11: that's at one possibility, but I don't think that's the 340 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 11: best way. I think a better way to do it 341 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 11: is more in proportion to the number of years of 342 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 11: residents you've spent in the country. So basically, if you 343 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 11: it's a very simple logic. You know, you've you've spent 344 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 11: your first fifty years in France, You've used French public infrastructure, 345 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,719 Speaker 11: public education systems, public public France. For the legal system, 346 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 11: you know, how can you accumulate your wells without the 347 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 11: legal system then you go one year to free their land. Okay, 348 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 11: that's fine, but you still have to pay fifty fifty 349 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 11: first fraction, you know, close to ninety five percent of 350 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 11: the tax that you will be paying if you stay 351 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 11: in France. It's as simple as that. And then if 352 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 11: you don't want to pay it. You know, the thing 353 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 11: is that it's not as if these people you have 354 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 11: no relations with France. You know, they have lots of 355 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 11: relation with funds. They typically own buildings there, they have 356 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 11: families there. So if you don't pay it, you know, 357 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 11: you put yourself in the same position as any one. Yes, 358 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 11: we decide not to pay a tax, so you know, 359 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 11: your assets can be can be frozen, you can be 360 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 11: arrested at the airport. 361 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 9: You know, that's the life of normal people. 362 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 11: You know, normal people cannot decide that three quarters of 363 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 11: the tax they're supposed to pay, they can do away 364 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 11: with it. I mean, you would love to do that. 365 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 11: I would everybody would love to do that. 366 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 2: Just very If the two percent tax does happen, consequences 367 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 2: for the stock market in France, for bond investors in France. 368 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 2: Do you think that it will spook markets? Will it 369 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: just will investor simply swallow it and move forward, or 370 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 2: will there be instant reaction? That's yeah, a lot of 371 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 2: my listeners are going to be thinking about this there 372 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: investors now not you know, in fifty one hundred years 373 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 2: time they want to that two percent tax comes in. 374 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: Would it have no consequence on French stocks, French bonds, theero. 375 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 11: You know, this is not a very big change as 376 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 11: compared to the volume of transaction in general. So you know, frankly, 377 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 11: there are so many other factors that affect asset prices. 378 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 9: So you know, in the long run. 379 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 11: This is irrelevant because there are so many other factors 380 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 11: that are more important for the prospecty of the economy. 381 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 11: You know, much invest in education, in infrastructure and your 382 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 11: sultsy energy crises. This is what diner is prosperity in 383 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 11: the long run. In the short run, you know, lots 384 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 11: of things can happen. Some people would say, you know, 385 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 11: asset prices find a housing crisis. 386 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 9: Yes, actually too high. 387 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 11: So many people you know would not complain if they were, 388 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 11: if they were going. 389 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 2: Younger, orth lip cent dropping house perces in France would 390 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 2: not bother anymore. 391 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 11: Oh, I think in Paris and London you should go 392 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 11: down by fifty percent, you know, if you want a 393 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 11: middle class to be able. 394 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 9: To find outing. 395 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 11: So you know, why why why do you have such 396 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 11: high housing crisis in Paris or London? 397 00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 9: Well, probably because you. 398 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 11: Have too many people with too much money that they 399 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 11: don't know what to do with it, so they just 400 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 11: drive up the prices too for apartments that they don't 401 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 11: even use. So you know, if you can, if you 402 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 11: can get these prices to go down, that's the best 403 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 11: policy you can do to to to to help you know, people, 404 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 11: normal people access access anything. 405 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 9: So you know, don't panic is a general answer. You know, 406 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 9: be cool. You know, look, you know there's been again. 407 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 11: If you look, if I look at my you know, 408 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 11: dayta in long run perspective, you know, the income scale 409 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 11: between you know, if I you know, the top one 410 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 11: percent and the bottom ten percent one to one hundred 411 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 11: one und years ago, it is maybe one to ten 412 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 11: today it has been divided by ten. If you are 413 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 11: told that to people one hundred years ago, because you 414 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 11: already had you know, business journalism, business people one hundred 415 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 11: years ago, if you have told them, okay, you're going 416 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 11: to have a progressive INCOMETAXT with you know, top tax 417 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 11: rate going to fifty sixty seventy eighty percent, size of 418 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 11: govern man going from ten percent of GDP to forty percent. 419 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 11: They would have told you one hundred years ago, Okay, 420 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 11: this is communism. 421 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 9: The sky is going to fall, the world is. 422 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 11: Going to disappear, no economic prosperity anymore. 423 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 9: What did we have? 424 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 11: We had the biggest period of prosperity ever observed in history. 425 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 2: So they need a long perspect exactly one laspe this 426 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 2: kind of statement. Yeah, one last thought. Your ideas, to 427 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: my mind, confront those of simply like little masks in 428 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: the world's richest person with all of his clous he 429 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: wants to influence as a billionaire, not just the whole 430 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 2: host of businesses, but also politics also the way that 431 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: people think about the world. And that is the challenge, 432 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 2: isn't it is? 433 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 9: How to You know? 434 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 11: What's interesting is that the billionaire class, so to speak, 435 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 11: or side her business class in general. Now they know 436 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 11: that they cannot stay in power just by having her 437 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 11: business discourse, because in fact, they lose power very soon 438 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 11: if they do that. So they need to have this 439 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 11: sort of very national list anti migrant discourse if they want. 440 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 9: To be in power. 441 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 11: Look look at you know, the Conservative Party today in Britain. 442 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,719 Speaker 11: They don't get to do something with reform and anti 443 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 11: migrant et cetera. It's going to be very difficult just 444 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 11: on the basis of pro business, a pro billionaire policy 445 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 11: to be elected, just because you know, for most people 446 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 11: this is not very appealing. So the choice is not 447 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 11: really between you know, whether you go for the billionaire 448 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 11: the most favored policy, or because people just don't run that, 449 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 11: the choice is more and more between sort of nationalism 450 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 11: and more sort of egalitarian universal policy. I like to 451 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 11: talk about democratic socialism. Some people prefer to talk about 452 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 11: social democracy for the twenty fifth century. You know, that's 453 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 11: fine with me, as long as we're talking about the 454 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 11: same thing. Is this going to be an easy fight? No, 455 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 11: because I think the nationalist discourse has a lot of 456 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 11: strength also in a way, because this is telling people, look, 457 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 11: we don't need this being complicated the international coalition, and 458 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 11: we don't you know, we just need to eat the migrants, 459 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 11: to eat the foreigners, to say that we are the 460 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 11: best in the world. And you know, if you are 461 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 11: power food state, particularly in the United States, but to 462 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 11: a lesser extend the latest state or the French type. 463 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 11: You know, you can sort of have the illusion that 464 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 11: this nationalist discourse is going to get you somewhere. The 465 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 11: reality is that it's not going to get you anywhere. 466 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 11: It's the low brand is just not going to solve 467 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 11: any of the problems. You know, is that going to 468 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 11: solve the climate problem in the US? Is this going 469 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 11: to solve the education? The house in the help is 470 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 11: not going to solve any problem. So I'm not saying 471 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 11: the fight is going to be easy. It's going to 472 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 11: be complicated. It's always been complicated. You know, every political 473 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 11: fight in the past which has driven us to a 474 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 11: more equal world has been very complicated. You know, the 475 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 11: creation of National Health Service in Britain nineteen forty five. 476 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 11: You know, you would have told that to people thirty 477 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 11: years before, fourteen before they left to you nowhere, the 478 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 11: end of the House of flor budgetary power in nineteen twenty, 479 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 11: we have told that forty years before. No way, It's 480 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 11: always been complicated. But what are the alternatives? You know, 481 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 11: the nationalist rhetoric that's not going to solve any of 482 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 11: the social problems that they create, big that they pretend 483 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 11: the missile. But this is a big fight but the 484 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 11: billionaire class, you know, why have they all become so reactionary, 485 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 11: you know Trump because they know that the pure pro 486 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 11: business discourse, you know, the actually cannot win. So they 487 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 11: have to find something else. And this something else is 488 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 11: quite ugly. Unfortunately, sometimes it's working. In the long run, 489 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 11: it's not good. 490 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg day Break Europe, your morning brief on 491 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: the stories making news from London to Wall Streets and beyond. 492 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: Look for us on your podcast feed every morning, on Apples, 493 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: to Fi and anywhere else you get your podcasts. 494 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: You can also listen live each morning on London DAB Radio, 495 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com. 496 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 2: Our flagship New York station is also available on your 497 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,959 Speaker 2: Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 498 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: I'm Caroline Hepka and. 499 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: I'm Stephen Carol. Join us again tomorrow morning for all 500 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: the news you need to start your day right here 501 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg day Break Europe.