Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing
Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world to business and finance,
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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You
Speaker 1: can also listen to our radio show at two pm
Speaker 1: Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or watch us on
Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. We talked about a New
Speaker 1: York Times reporting that Fiser Maderna expanding vaccine studies of
Speaker 1: children under eleven. We've also talked about, or you've heard,
Speaker 1: certainly on Bloomberg about COVID infections globally increasing the most
Speaker 1: in two months amid the spread of the delta variant,
Speaker 1: a surge across the US and low vaccination levels in
Speaker 1: most Southeast Asian nations, and New York City tim saying
Speaker 1: all municipal workers will be required to receive a vaccine
Speaker 1: or get tested weekly. We just talked about that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: just some of the things we're thinking about when it
Speaker 1: comes to the virus and vaccine. Joining us now is
Speaker 1: Dr Hilth Pause, chief executive officer at Wexner Medical Center,
Speaker 1: also Chancellor of Health Affairs at the Ohio State University,
Speaker 1: on the phone from Columbus, Ohio, Ohio, Doctor Pause, it's
Speaker 1: great to have you back on the program. How are you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. Thank you, it's great feedback. Appreciate the
Speaker 1: opportunity definitely. Well. I think the big concern that among
Speaker 1: at least people in my own universe has to be
Speaker 1: breakthrough infections and the delta variant. It's it's one of
Speaker 1: the things that that we are certainly thinking about, especially
Speaker 1: as kids under the age of twelve still cannot be vaccinated.
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering what evidence do we have right now
Speaker 1: about how somebody who is infected with a breakthrough can
Speaker 1: they pass it to somebody who isn't vaccinated. Yeah, so, um,
Speaker 1: there certainly is the possibility that if someone has um
Speaker 1: uh an infection, they've been vaccinated, and they and they
Speaker 1: are infected now with one of the COVID nineteen variants,
Speaker 1: they could pass it. Um It really depends on a
Speaker 1: number of factors UM, particularly their immune status. There are
Speaker 1: some individuals that are not going to achieve the kind
Speaker 1: of immunity we want and to see after they're vaccinated.
Speaker 1: Here we've seen at the Wexner Medical Center UM admitted
Speaker 1: to the hospital teen percent of individuals who are fully
Speaker 1: vaccinated and UH and in in those cases, these are
Speaker 1: individuals that have our immunocompromise because of an underlying disease
Speaker 1: or or undergoing active cancer treatment. If they have higher
Speaker 1: and high enough viral counts, there is the possibility that
Speaker 1: they could transmit it. But these are you know, these
Speaker 1: are the exception, not the rule. The the the opportunity
Speaker 1: is is for all of us to get vaccinated. And
Speaker 1: you know, we're learning a lot now with additional studies
Speaker 1: around how to best handle individuals that are you know,
Speaker 1: in an age group or have underlying conditions where they
Speaker 1: may need an additional booster and UM because of their
Speaker 1: increased risk. Well, how should we how should we think
Speaker 1: about that people within who do have an increased risk?
Speaker 1: I mean should should It's this it's this strange sort
Speaker 1: of scenario that we're in right now, because if we
Speaker 1: were think back where we were at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the summer, it was sort of like, Okay, we are
Speaker 1: very happy right now, things are getting back to normal.
Speaker 1: We don't have to wear masks anymore. And suddenly we're
Speaker 1: in this situation where it's like, okay, now people now
Speaker 1: health experts are talking about wearing mass again, even if
Speaker 1: you've been vaccinated. M Yeah, So you know, we need
Speaker 1: to I think put all this into into context. So
Speaker 1: if we go back to March of the original strain
Speaker 1: in the US, since then, we are we've had four
Speaker 1: variants that have come forward. So Alpha from the UK,
Speaker 1: Beta that first was detected in South Africa, Gamma originally
Speaker 1: detected in Brazil and Japan, and now Delta, which was
Speaker 1: originally detected in India. And as you mentioned, Delta is
Speaker 1: now quickly spreading and becoming um the most prevalent um
Speaker 1: right now. And we know that in part because it
Speaker 1: is forty six more contagious than alpha, and Alpha was
Speaker 1: more contagious than the original strain that we also so
Speaker 1: right now in the US, Delta is responsible for thirty
Speaker 1: percent of all COVID cases and we're going to continue,
Speaker 1: I believe, to see Delta become more and more prevalent
Speaker 1: It's important to remember though that infections, contagiousness and and
Speaker 1: lethality of the virus are two different things. And I
Speaker 1: mentioned this I think when I was on previously. You know,
Speaker 1: think of a virus like a bowla exceptionally lethal Obviously
Speaker 1: it is not a pandemic. On the other hand, as
Speaker 1: these variants in COVID developed, the more they become contagious,
Speaker 1: the more and they can spread. There's no evidence that
Speaker 1: we have right now that the delta variant is more
Speaker 1: lethal than the earlier variants we've seen in the US. Um. Obviously,
Speaker 1: that's something we have to keep um watching carefully, but
Speaker 1: it also does follow the natural evolution of viruses. If
Speaker 1: they're going to become more contagious, they can't kill the hosts.
Speaker 1: Obviously it would you know, that would be a tragic
Speaker 1: set of circumstances. Could it happen? Sure? But um, that's
Speaker 1: something we just don't see, right That's often a question
Speaker 1: line dr pause that we are that we pursue here
Speaker 1: to understand that do we get to a point where
Speaker 1: there is a variant that is not only more contagious
Speaker 1: but also more lethal, which would be not a good combination.
Speaker 1: Is that inevitable or not necessarily well. Again, we can
Speaker 1: only base what we know on test experience with viral
Speaker 1: infections as well as with the data we have right now,
Speaker 1: and right now we don't see evidence that the delta
Speaker 1: variant is more lethal than the earlier variants that we've
Speaker 1: experienced here in this country, around the world, but we
Speaker 1: continue to collect that information. The surest thing we can
Speaker 1: do is get everybody vaccinated, and those that are in
Speaker 1: exceptionally high risk groups, those that are immunocompromised, look at
Speaker 1: the studies that suggest giving them a booster as well.
Speaker 1: That's what we need to do to protect everyone. And
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before war Um. The whole point
Speaker 1: of this is to prevent people from dying, from winding
Speaker 1: up in the hospital. That's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1: People have already been reinfected or have become ineffective after
Speaker 1: being vaccinated, but quite frankly, if the worst thing they
Speaker 1: have is a cold, and I remember when I came
Speaker 1: on the first time I mentioned that. You know, we
Speaker 1: believe fifteen percent of the time, going back for a
Speaker 1: long time, the common cold was caused by some coronavirus.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business. We Carl Master along with Tim Stanovic. Well,
Speaker 1: earlier we had Dr Anthony Fauci, of course, the nation's
Speaker 1: top doctor when it comes to COVID and the vaccine
Speaker 1: catching up on CNN and he talked about the nation,
Speaker 1: the United States, going in the wrong direction. Check it out.
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure it would be the worst case scenario,
Speaker 1: but it's not going to be good. We're going in
Speaker 1: the wrong direction if you look at the inflection of
Speaker 1: the curve of new cases, and as you said in
Speaker 1: the running to this interview, that it is among the unvaccinated,
Speaker 1: and since we have of the country is not fully vaccinated,
Speaker 1: that's a problem, all right. And that, of course was
Speaker 1: Dr Anthony Faucci yesterday on CNN talking about what's going
Speaker 1: on when it comes to COVID and the vaccine in
Speaker 1: the progress or process here in the United States. Let's
Speaker 1: get back to Dr Harold Pause. He's Executive EP Chancellor
Speaker 1: for Health Affairs at the Ohio State University CEO Wexner
Speaker 1: Medical Center. It's a massive enterprise hospitals, College of Medicine,
Speaker 1: Research and more. Former chief medical officer at ETNA. Still
Speaker 1: with us on the phone from Columbus, Ohio. So how
Speaker 1: do we dr pause? Tim and I talked about this
Speaker 1: a lot. So we both have the vaccine, We feel
Speaker 1: pretty comfortable and that even if we get COVID, we're
Speaker 1: probably in a good shape. A lot of those around us,
Speaker 1: whether who we work with, our families, have also gotten that.
Speaker 1: But how do we need to start thinking about a
Speaker 1: booster shot, especially as there's more and more research about
Speaker 1: the efficacy or the waning efficacy of these vaccines on
Speaker 1: younger people, older people. There's a lot of moving parts
Speaker 1: on this, So how do we need to maybe mark
Speaker 1: our calendars about what we need to do next? Right?
Speaker 1: So great question. First of all, let me just reiterate
Speaker 1: what uh Anthony Fauci said here in Columbus at the
Speaker 1: Wexner Medical Center. Of the patients who have been admitted
Speaker 1: to our hospitals with active COVID, nineteen have either been
Speaker 1: unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. That's is just I can't give
Speaker 1: you better evidence to support what he said. Only ten
Speaker 1: percent have been fully vaccinated, and all of them, to
Speaker 1: an individual, are either an active cancer treatment or have
Speaker 1: some underlying immune disorder. I mean, it's staggering when you
Speaker 1: look at that, and when we think about younger people
Speaker 1: now getting infected with the delta variant because it's so
Speaker 1: much more contagious. I don't know what else we can
Speaker 1: do other than convince everyone to get this vaccine unless
Speaker 1: there's some medical reason why they can't. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is what it's all about out It's about saving lives.
Speaker 1: And I think that as we get more and more
Speaker 1: data about how these vaccines impact our immune response to COVID.
Speaker 1: It's making antibodies, but it's also cellular immune response T cells,
Speaker 1: for example, how they respond to the virus, will know
Speaker 1: more about getting a booster, how long the vaccine protects
Speaker 1: us for keep in mind, we had a pandemic a
Speaker 1: century ago. H one N one influenza hasn't gone away.
Speaker 1: It comes back every year, and all of us I
Speaker 1: hope all of us go out and get a vaccine
Speaker 1: for the flu because every year, tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: people in the US diet influenza. So we want to
Speaker 1: prevent that from happening. We all get our annual flu vaccine.
Speaker 1: I suspect that as a result of the variance and
Speaker 1: what we've seen evolved now over more than a year
Speaker 1: and a half, we're going to be in a situation
Speaker 1: where the foreseeable future we're going to have to think
Speaker 1: of strategy about getting boosters or additional vaccine to protect
Speaker 1: us from winding up very sick in the hospital on
Speaker 1: a ventilator or dying. One more point, we are doing
Speaker 1: more lung transplants now than we've seen before. Those are
Speaker 1: lung transplants for COVID nineteen survivors. That's not a situation
Speaker 1: we want to have in this country. Is does it
Speaker 1: get to a point where the way that this virus
Speaker 1: just burns off as similar to what happened in nineteen
Speaker 1: where the people who are not vaccinated and we weren't
Speaker 1: talking about vaccines then, but the people are not vaccinated, Uh,
Speaker 1: they become sick or even worse, uh, and then they
Speaker 1: get immunity. Right as a result, if they if they
Speaker 1: do not die from this, and we just have about
Speaker 1: thirty seconds left, well, but the immunity doesn't last forever
Speaker 1: when you're infected. And we know, for example, infections with
Speaker 1: COVID don't offer the same protection for the variance as
Speaker 1: getting a vaccine. So it's the vaccine that offers much
Speaker 1: better protection than getting an infection um and you know,
Speaker 1: with the influenza, it never really did go away. H
Speaker 1: one N one comes back annually. But that's why we
Speaker 1: get an influenza shot, right, And that's really kind of
Speaker 1: increasingly how we need to think about all of this. Hey,
Speaker 1: Dr Pause, thank you so much. Always a treat when
Speaker 1: you join us. Dr Harold Pause. He's Chancellor for Health
Speaker 1: Affairs at the Ohio State University CEO of Wexner Medical Center.
Speaker 1: With a great perspective on everything that's going on today.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Our world
Speaker 1: we know, disrupted by the COVID pandemic, more e commerce,
Speaker 1: more technology and automation everywhere, virtual medicine. Also, the relationship
Speaker 1: between employee and employer has changed because of ramped up
Speaker 1: remote working and as a result, one of the most
Speaker 1: sought after management jobs right now is something akin tim
Speaker 1: to a remote works are. A remote works are, it's
Speaker 1: a shortcut to the c suite for rising professionals, joining
Speaker 1: us down, tell us all about it. As Joe Weber,
Speaker 1: editor at Bloomberg Business Week, he joins us on the
Speaker 1: this line from Brooklyn. Also, Matt Boyle, us retail reporter
Speaker 1: for Bloomberg News, joins us on the phone from New
Speaker 1: York City. Joel the Rise of the remote the vice
Speaker 1: president of Productivity and Remote Experience. It's it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: something that I knew would really exist, even in a
Speaker 1: post COVID world. I didn't. I didn't either, And that's
Speaker 1: what UM sort of caught my attention about it. But
Speaker 1: as you would expect, UM, this last year's changed UM
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Uh. And in the season, we
Speaker 1: I think there was a recognition that there that there
Speaker 1: was a new role that needed to be created. And
Speaker 1: and I was not only surprised to hear the title
Speaker 1: of the role, but also learned that it is sort
Speaker 1: of a shortcut. So so Matt take us uh and
Speaker 1: said that conversation, and how many of these positions are
Speaker 1: really crupping up? Yeah, that's hard to say at the
Speaker 1: moment um, but we we do know, because it might
Speaker 1: not be called specifically that, but we do know that
Speaker 1: there are going to be people sort of you know
Speaker 1: who's responsibilities include making sure that remote workers UM are engaged,
Speaker 1: you know, are productive. Um. There's been so much debate
Speaker 1: over you know, whether or not you know, when you
Speaker 1: spend your day on zoom, Uh, if your home all day,
Speaker 1: you're going to be as products. And I think the
Speaker 1: case is clear that you know, workers certainly are as productive,
Speaker 1: if not more productive, working from home. The pandemic has
Speaker 1: proved that. But um, you know, are they happy? Are
Speaker 1: they thinking of leaving? And that's something that this rule
Speaker 1: would help figure out. Um, so you'd have somebody, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of responsible for your entire remote workforce. And those
Speaker 1: workforces are growing, of course, we can have as many
Speaker 1: as one in five workers primarily working from home in
Speaker 1: three years according to some research we've seen. So you
Speaker 1: really need somebody to sort of, you know, oversee all
Speaker 1: of them. And that's what this role uh, you know, right,
Speaker 1: you know what, Joe though, you know, I'm listening to
Speaker 1: Matt talk and I'm wondering, is this going to be
Speaker 1: more like a remote work police person policing people making
Speaker 1: sure they're really working while they're at home? War? Is
Speaker 1: this more about remote we're a cultivator like remote war
Speaker 1: or guru like really thinking about how flexible we can
Speaker 1: be in terms of how we work. Because I feel
Speaker 1: like there are companies that embrace it and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden they're like, oh, no, you've got to get
Speaker 1: back to the office, like it's back and forth so much. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, to try and answer your question,
Speaker 1: I think it's going to start with the ladder right, like,
Speaker 1: this is an attempt to recognize that the workforce has changed,
Speaker 1: the workplace has changed. Can we get a flexible executive
Speaker 1: style thinking talent sort of in charge of these challenges
Speaker 1: that the workforce UM is going to face. I think
Speaker 1: that's where the position probably is going to start. But
Speaker 1: then I think it probably if we think out, you know,
Speaker 1: down the line here a couple of years, I think
Speaker 1: it has the potential to put you know, to potentially
Speaker 1: become a little bit more of that enforcer to be
Speaker 1: like how many people are actually online doing their job
Speaker 1: right now. But I don't think starting there necessarily. I
Speaker 1: think I think that's potentially where it could go. But Matt,
Speaker 1: you want to ask about Yeah, I just want Matt,
Speaker 1: I want to bring you back in and and talk
Speaker 1: about the survey. And you know, a lot of this
Speaker 1: is rooted in this um uh Cowen Partners who said
Speaker 1: in the you know, in your story that you know
Speaker 1: this is one of the ten most on after management
Speaker 1: jobs right now. And and so talk to me because
Speaker 1: part of me thinks is, like we put this in
Speaker 1: the headline a little bit. If this is truly like
Speaker 1: a shortcut to the C suite, there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot of talented people who are just going to be
Speaker 1: looking to change potentially career tracks. And like, so what
Speaker 1: kind of person fulfills this this job description currently? I
Speaker 1: mean you have to already have experienced leading large teams.
Speaker 1: That's sort of a seen a client on of this role.
Speaker 1: You have, you know, whether you've been running a call
Speaker 1: center or you've been running you know, um a factory
Speaker 1: or what have you um, Having experienced leading large teams
Speaker 1: I think is key on top of that. Certainly, you know,
Speaker 1: communication skills are are you very much necessary here? You're
Speaker 1: going to be talking to a lot of people remotely
Speaker 1: Obviously you might be you know, overseeing folks that you
Speaker 1: never actually see in person. Um, so that's you know
Speaker 1: key as well. And then just sort of having you know,
Speaker 1: knowing the ins and outs of all the various companies
Speaker 1: workforce policies. You know you're gonna be handling a compensation
Speaker 1: issues might come up, tax issues might come up. What
Speaker 1: if a remote worker moves from California to Texas or
Speaker 1: to Florida, you know what happens there. So they're going
Speaker 1: to kind of need to be a bit of a
Speaker 1: savant in terms of all the companies, various workplace policies
Speaker 1: and that you think that might lend themselves to You know,
Speaker 1: this person coming from the HR department, and while they
Speaker 1: might have HR experience, it doesn't necessarily mean this has
Speaker 1: to be, you know, an HR career person taking this world.
Speaker 1: They could be coming from operations or sales or just
Speaker 1: about anywhere. I do wonder too, Matt, if it's akin
Speaker 1: to chief financial officers got elevated after the financial crisis
Speaker 1: chief sustainability officers. I'm increasingly having conversations with them with
Speaker 1: other C suite officials, and they're both like executive vice presidents,
Speaker 1: they're on the same level. Is there this remote works
Speaker 1: are that all of a sudden becomes a big player
Speaker 1: in the C suite kind of part of the core
Speaker 1: that's running the company. I mean, it might be, but
Speaker 1: you've got to be carefully. I mean, think of all
Speaker 1: the attention we've paid to chief diversity officers. But I've
Speaker 1: been told and plenty of studies have shown that that
Speaker 1: role can often be a bit of a backward career wise.
Speaker 1: You know, you're kind of blamed for everything and you
Speaker 1: get credit for nothing. So there's a lot a lot
Speaker 1: of turnover in that chief diversity officer role. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, with this role specifically, I think, of course,
Speaker 1: if you do it well, if productivity soars under your
Speaker 1: purview as uh, you know, as remote workings are, then yes,
Speaker 1: you could certainly be uh in line for you know,
Speaker 1: a C suite position. But again, you know, the jury
Speaker 1: still have. We got to see some people that have
Speaker 1: some actual experience in these roles and it keep you know, remember,
Speaker 1: it's keeping people engaged and satisfied as well. It's not
Speaker 1: just about okay, it's productivity of twenty Yeah. Well, to
Speaker 1: that end, I do wonder to what extent this type
Speaker 1: of job is permanent. As you point on your piece,
Speaker 1: and this is something I did not know. The term
Speaker 1: telecommuting was actually coined by a NASA worker in the
Speaker 1: early nineteen seventies, and you do point out that in
Speaker 1: Yahoo abruptly ended its long standing telecommuting policy Um, that
Speaker 1: was years ago. I wonder though, if if this time
Speaker 1: is different, if this is the turning point where the
Speaker 1: American workforce is distributed, Well, we're definitely going to be
Speaker 1: more distributed. Yeah, I think that that is a lasting
Speaker 1: change in the pandemic in terms of yeah, certain terms
Speaker 1: of the sustainability of this job specifically, though, yes, we
Speaker 1: do say and I spoke to an expert in HR
Speaker 1: issues at Cornell who said, hey, you know, if you
Speaker 1: do this job too well, you might make yourself redundant
Speaker 1: and be out of a job. But that was a
Speaker 1: bit tongue in chic. I think there's always going to
Speaker 1: going to be a need for somebody who really, you know,
Speaker 1: whose job it is to make sure that the remote workforce,
Speaker 1: especially if it's one in five workers. Why color workers
Speaker 1: moving forward? You know, they're engaged, they're satisfied, they know
Speaker 1: what the company expects of them. Um, you know, and
Speaker 1: the companies can you know, see it through here. Definitely
Speaker 1: saw that companies are trying to figure the way forward
Speaker 1: and who they needed management to kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: see that way at their companies. Joe Webber, thank you
Speaker 1: so much, editor at Bloomberg Business Week on the remote
Speaker 1: access in Brooklyn, along with Matt Boyle, who has used
Speaker 1: at US retail reporter, also Bloomberg News senior reporter for Management,
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from New York City. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick
Speaker 1: Takes Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. So top of mind
Speaker 1: for us on this Monday. We've actually been talking about
Speaker 1: a lot of things when it comes to China specifically,
Speaker 1: but the US and China holding their first high level
Speaker 1: talks in months and in doing so highlighting deep differences,
Speaker 1: really suggesting once again the world's two biggest economies haven't
Speaker 1: quite found a clear path for improving their increasingly strained ties.
Speaker 1: So writing about that is our own Bloomberg New Economy
Speaker 1: Editorial director Andy Brown. He joins us here in our
Speaker 1: interactive Broker Studio, you have a great column about going
Speaker 1: back several decades and how ping pong actually solved a
Speaker 1: lot of what ailed the U. S And China in
Speaker 1: their relationship that doesn't work anymore. I'm afraid it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Um You know this was it was almost exactly fifty
Speaker 1: years ago when a US amateur ping pong group led
Speaker 1: by a weed smoking hippie. I love it already got
Speaker 1: an invitation. This isn't a Netflix series, and he should be.
Speaker 1: It's so improbable. I mean, they were in they were
Speaker 1: in Tokyo in a ping pong match, Joe and lie that.
Speaker 1: Then Chinese premier sees them and says, hey, we should
Speaker 1: invite them over to Beijing. And of course the intention
Speaker 1: was to break the ice with the US, and it
Speaker 1: led to Henry Kissinger's visit to China and the whole
Speaker 1: opening of China and US Chinese diplomatic relations. But the
Speaker 1: point I was making in in in my piece is
Speaker 1: that the reason these two countries got together is because
Speaker 1: they had a common enemy, and that was the Soviet Union.
Speaker 1: That the Soviet Union and China had split. China needed
Speaker 1: a friend. The US, for its part, needed a counterweight
Speaker 1: to Soviet expansionism in Asia. When the Soviet Union collapses,
Speaker 1: the raison detra for the relationship collapses and outcomes all
Speaker 1: of the issues that are being suppressed for decades, like
Speaker 1: human rights. So if you look now what just happened
Speaker 1: in Tianjin with this, with this visit by Wendy Sherman,
Speaker 1: Deputy US Sexual State, the whole meeting is dominated by
Speaker 1: these contentious issues. Just to give you a flavor, she
Speaker 1: accuses China of genocide in Shinjian. China turns around and
Speaker 1: accuses the United States of genocide against Native Americans. That
Speaker 1: is basically the way the meeting went. Really warm and cozy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think a ping pong tournament or ping pong
Speaker 1: game is going to end this stuff anytime soon. But
Speaker 1: there's also the technological aspect of this, right, and and
Speaker 1: you write about that in your column Andy, Yes, so tech.
Speaker 1: You know, for a long time after the Soviet Union collapse,
Speaker 1: people said, well, it's business, that's the ballast for the relationship.
Speaker 1: And now what you're seeing is that business and particularly
Speaker 1: tech has become an irritant in the relationship, and it's
Speaker 1: now part of a strategic competition between the US and China.
Speaker 1: With China now with this latest eruption over the d
Speaker 1: D and the ED tech sector over the weekend, which
Speaker 1: you've seen blowing up, China is now seeing US investment
Speaker 1: in Chinese data companies as a national security threat. So
Speaker 1: now you're seeing decoupling across the board um including in
Speaker 1: the business sector, between these two large worlds too largest economies.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this and we kind of joke, but
Speaker 1: don't joke, like follow the money, and I want to
Speaker 1: follow investor money, whether ultimately they pull back. We've talked
Speaker 1: with investors and they're like, it's going to continue. US
Speaker 1: investor money will still go in. How do you see it? Sure?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, US investor money can still get
Speaker 1: into Chinese tech companies through Hong Kong, through Shanghai. There
Speaker 1: are various mechanisms in which you can trade shares um,
Speaker 1: you know. But what you're seeing now is China very
Speaker 1: explicitly saying we're not that interested. In fact, we're not
Speaker 1: interested at all in US foreign investment in some of
Speaker 1: our most critical tech sectors. You're you're well because because
Speaker 1: I think about when I started Business News, like long
Speaker 1: you know, years ago, but not so long ago. I mean,
Speaker 1: that was all kind of wanted for direct investment, right,
Speaker 1: They wanted US companies to come over and help. You
Speaker 1: couldn't own a facility, right, but you could invest in
Speaker 1: a joint China US facility because they wanted to. They
Speaker 1: wanted to know how, right, they wanted to know how,
Speaker 1: and they wanted at in the early stages, they wanted
Speaker 1: the funding. I mean, you know, you have to remember
Speaker 1: Ali Baba, these early tech companies, most of them, they
Speaker 1: were all funded by largely US private equity or venture
Speaker 1: capital companies. So what happens when that goes away? Does
Speaker 1: it matter at this point? Well, I think it does matter.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it matters that tech is now
Speaker 1: and the whole industrial areas and now seen as being
Speaker 1: areas of confrontation between the US and China. And you've
Speaker 1: got to remember that in almost every supply chains in
Speaker 1: almost every industry in the world run through China. China
Speaker 1: touches everything. So andy, how does this play out? Because
Speaker 1: it seems like increasingly there are allies of the United
Speaker 1: States that are looking increasingly skeptical at China. And I'm
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if relations improve or if they continue
Speaker 1: to freeze and China becomes increasingly isolated. Look, you find
Speaker 1: a lot of rhetorical um, you know, the China that
Speaker 1: the United States is building up allies to push back
Speaker 1: against China. But so far it's been rhetorical only, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, you you don't see any uh much appetite
Speaker 1: among US allies for real sanctions I think what you're
Speaker 1: seeing with this Wendy Showman visit is essentially stalemate. The
Speaker 1: idea is you've got to prevent this thing from spinning
Speaker 1: out of control. That's the modest expectation. So I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say, carell, I mean to that point in
Speaker 1: one thing that investors want to see from Tesla today
Speaker 1: is any news about growth in China, sales in China,
Speaker 1: and they're looking for how the company is actually doing
Speaker 1: in China, which I think speaks to the way that
Speaker 1: American companies still continue to think about the company in
Speaker 1: the country. Right now, test Tesler is perceived as being
Speaker 1: useful for China to the extent that it can help
Speaker 1: set up a supply chain, you know, strengthened Chinese battery
Speaker 1: makers and so on. Wait what happens when that mission
Speaker 1: is accomplished and China has developed its own homegrown e
Speaker 1: V stars, Right, You'll then start to see and you're
Speaker 1: you are already actually starting to see political pressure building
Speaker 1: against Tesla. Right. There's been a lot of criticism, right,
Speaker 1: and I mean we've seen that kind of push back
Speaker 1: to full real what would cause right exactly? Um, thank
Speaker 1: you so much, great stuff, great column and so relevant
Speaker 1: because I feel like when it comes to our market story,
Speaker 1: we're hitting on this so many different times. Over the
Speaker 1: next three hours. Andy Brown, He's editorial director at Bloomberg
Speaker 1: New Economy, on the phone from New York City. Any chance, though, Andy,
Speaker 1: ten fifteen seconds, that they're just playing tough and they'll
Speaker 1: figure it out because they need each other, or not
Speaker 1: so much anymore, just quickly, not so much. The key
Speaker 1: is going to be whether or not we get a
Speaker 1: summit meeting between c. Jimping and Joe Biden, potentially in
Speaker 1: October at the G twenty meeting. Let's see if Wendy
Speaker 1: Showman can come back from her meetings in China with
Speaker 1: that in her pocket. Market calendar's everybody, Andy, You're the best,
Speaker 1: Andy Brown. This is the big take, the best of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's in depth original reporting from around the globe. Well,
Speaker 1: we have to do, as the Economy covers is look
Speaker 1: at the data kind of broken down a bit. It's
Speaker 1: fun to becoming more and more expensively to be looking
Speaker 1: at the shifting billion dollars for their entry. Levels of
Speaker 1: immigration that have tasted a lot of resistance, a lot
Speaker 1: of color behind the scenes, and a great untold story,
Speaker 1: How did Bezos really come out on top? As the
Speaker 1: cover says, Jeff wins he always seems to win the
Speaker 1: bog tick. On Bloomberg Radio, it's today's Big Take, and
Speaker 1: it's by Julie Johnson, aerospace reporter for Bloomberg Knew. She
Speaker 1: joins us now on the phone from Chicago. It is
Speaker 1: a story that focuses on Boeing and the brain rain
Speaker 1: that has been happening at Boeing in recent years. Julie,
Speaker 1: it's really great to have you on the show. I
Speaker 1: encourage everybody to check out this story. It is a
Speaker 1: fantastic one and goes a deep dive into the history
Speaker 1: of the company, especially how it's changed in recent years.
Speaker 1: Just how bad is the brain drain, as one analyst
Speaker 1: you spoke to describes it at Boeing, You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's definitely a worry, and I know this is something
Speaker 1: that people um within Boeing have been talking about and
Speaker 1: worried about as well. The company had to to cut
Speaker 1: deeply last year to survive COVID and the max grounding
Speaker 1: and its rival in Europe air Bus did not and um,
Speaker 1: so we're coming out of the other side of the
Speaker 1: crisis and this is the point where you start to
Speaker 1: to find out did they let too many people, especially
Speaker 1: engineers walk out the door. You know, it's a story
Speaker 1: that I that I read and I have the takeaway
Speaker 1: about share price share by backs, and I think, to myself,
Speaker 1: it seems like a story of a company that is
Speaker 1: really really focused on its share price, perhaps to the
Speaker 1: detriment of long term sustainability and thinking about the big
Speaker 1: picture of what the company was and what it wants
Speaker 1: to be generations from now. You know, out is so
Speaker 1: well put and I think that you know, looking back
Speaker 1: on the last decade, you could definitely make the case
Speaker 1: that just a lot of thought and resources and focus
Speaker 1: went into financial engineering and um, I mean Boeing. Boeing
Speaker 1: continued to build facilities and um and definitely you know,
Speaker 1: had planes in the pipeline, but um along the way
Speaker 1: did this you know, did this company the management team
Speaker 1: that at the time sort of lose you know, lose
Speaker 1: sight of the big dreams, the big bats that had
Speaker 1: made Boeing, you know, just such a pillar of American industrials. Julie,
Speaker 1: That's what I wonder. I mean, there was an era
Speaker 1: where Boeing was the place where so many engineers wanted
Speaker 1: to work right. It was just incredible. And I do
Speaker 1: wonder the financial engineering definitely going on, or you know,
Speaker 1: doing the buybacks and doing the dividends. But what also
Speaker 1: happened in term is of it being a visionary company,
Speaker 1: the company that was figuring out the next great airplane
Speaker 1: or the next great you know, device, or a vehicle
Speaker 1: into space. What happened? Where did that go wrong? With that?
Speaker 1: Senior management? What was it? Well? UM so, yes, to
Speaker 1: some degree, senior management. And we could go back to
Speaker 1: the history of the merger with McDonald Douglas and where
Speaker 1: you had a management team who were really strongly influenced
Speaker 1: by ge and and Jack Jack Welch winding up in
Speaker 1: key positions at Boeing. So that's I mean, it's that's
Speaker 1: part of the history. And UM. As maligned as Dennis
Speaker 1: Muhlenberg is for his handling of the seven thirty seven Max,
Speaker 1: I think he had aspirations. I mean I don't think
Speaker 1: I know, he really well wanted to make this a
Speaker 1: great company. UM he won. You know, he knew the history.
Speaker 1: He had spent his entire career at Boeing and UM
Speaker 1: as an engineer, and you know, I think he um
Speaker 1: was was thinking about space and you know, in sort
Speaker 1: of the next iteration, and that all came crashing down
Speaker 1: um with with the seven Max crashes. And there's just
Speaker 1: been two years of hell for people who've been working
Speaker 1: at Bowing. So where does the company go from here?
Speaker 1: I let out an audible gas when I read that
Speaker 1: the seven Dreamliners nearly twenty years old, because to me,
Speaker 1: that still seems like the new thing at Boeing. And
Speaker 1: you also talked about the sty Starliner spacecraft and the
Speaker 1: way that it competes with with SpaceX. Where does it
Speaker 1: go from here? Julie, Yeah, so, so it's it's at
Speaker 1: an interesting juncture. It's got a new CEO, Dave Calhoun,
Speaker 1: who who also came from GE, but in in private equity. Yea,
Speaker 1: so he he definitely has his creds as a cost cutter.
Speaker 1: But at GE he made a huge gamble on on
Speaker 1: a jet engine technology that went on to become right
Speaker 1: after nine eleven actually and it went on to become
Speaker 1: a huge So so the jury is out, but we'll see.
Speaker 1: Well it's a really deep dive. It's the Bloomberg Big
Speaker 1: Take today and it's a must read and we'll put
Speaker 1: it out on Twitter. Julie Johnson, she's aerospace reporter here
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg News, covering it so well. Joining us on
Speaker 1: the phone from Chicago. All right, you're listening to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week. Cow Master tim Stenavic, This is Bloomberg. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,
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