1 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm your host Lee Clasgow, senior freight transportation and logistics 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's in house research arm. We're 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: delighted to have Ike Brown, vice chairman and President of NFI. 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Ike has had numerous responsibilities since his start with the 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: company in nineteen seventy seven. In nineteen eighty, Ike moved 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: to Dallas, Texas to oversee NFI's operation in the Southeast. 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: During the eighties, he grew NFI to be the largest 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: contract carrier in Texas and a major truckload carrier in 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: the Southwest. Ike has been extremely philanthropic over the past 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: couple decades. He's earned a Bachelor of Science in Business 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: administration from Boston University in nineteen seventy six. So I 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: guess go terriers, and so welcome to the podcast. 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: Ike, Well, thanks for having me. 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: Pleasure and I always appreciate your time. I loved always 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: talking with you with various conferences over the years. So 17 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: NFI might not be a household name, it is for me, 18 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: but for those that maybe aren't outside of freight transportation logistics, 19 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: can you give a little background about NiFi Industries. 20 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 2: Okay, so we're a family owned business. This is our 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: ninety second year in business. Most companies probably can't say 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: they've been around for ninety two years, and surely most 23 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: logistics companies haven't been around that long. But my two brothers, 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: said Jeff and I are third generation, and my grandfather 25 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: started the business nineteen thirty two, and we do have 26 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: fourth generation, which we refer to as G four, that 27 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: has already come into the business. There's nine cousins in 28 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: the fourth generation, and six of the nine are already 29 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: in the business. So objective is to continue to operate 30 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: as a family entity and you know, not go down 31 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 2: the public route. 32 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: I guess the major reason to stay private. It just 33 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: gives you, guys, the flexibility to do with what you 34 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: want with your capital. 35 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: Yes, and you know, we've never had an issue with 36 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 2: you know, in our acquisitions or in our capex spend. 37 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: As far as finding funds, we've done it all through 38 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 2: internally and some debt. Our balance sheet you know right 39 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 2: now is in the best shape I think it's ever been. 40 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 2: We put it up against any public entity and so 41 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 2: you know, we've been able to grow our business mostly 42 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: from internal funds. 43 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, and can you talk about those businesses? 44 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: What markets are is NiFi involved in On the in 45 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: transport side, Yeah. 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: So we have four core businesses. We have our what 47 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: we call our abt our Asset Base Transportation, which is 48 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: our trucking business, which some people probably remember us as 49 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: National Freight. So that business is operating about you know, 50 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: maybe thirty five hundred trucks, predominant being company equipment, a 51 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: little over three thousand company equipment and about the twelve 52 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:34,839 Speaker 2: thirteen thousand trailers. We changed that business ten twelve years 53 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: ago from being an over the road operation, so we 54 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: are purely dedicated. That's the offering that we have on 55 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: the trucking side. So we are contractual on you know, 56 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: two three, five seven year deals and that has served 57 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: us well. 58 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: Is that mostly like in retail and consumer products. 59 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: Retail, consumer products, beverage, food, you know, our average length 60 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: of hall is probably about two hundred and fifty miles, 61 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: which surprises a lot of people because we're not in 62 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: the over the road transactional a realmmental and we operate 63 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: those operations throughout North America I meaning we have some 64 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: operations up in Canada. As well as domestic US, and 65 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 2: we have a border operation in Laredo as well, second 66 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 2: biggest PEAK and that business probably does about one point 67 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: two billion a year. And then we have our warehousing 68 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: and distribution business, which is about a billion and a 69 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: half a billion six entity, and we operate close to 70 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 2: seventy two seventy three million square of industrial warehouse space 71 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: throughout North America Canada. I think we're the second or 72 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: third largest warehouse provider in Canada. Now we've done some 73 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: acquisitions and we're one of the largest in the US 74 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 2: as far as the warehouse space. So out of that 75 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 2: seventy two seventy three million, we own about eighteen million 76 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: of it and the rest of it is leases that 77 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: pretty much coincide with the customers that we're doing business with. 78 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 2: And then we do a lot of value added services 79 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: within those four walls of the warehouses, and some of 80 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: those warehouses ares small as fifty thousand square feet. And 81 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: then we have a number of million square foot million 82 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: plus square foot warehouses that we operate throughout the US. 83 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: And kind of a sub section of that is we 84 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: also have a domestic crosstock bit business, so we do 85 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: a fair amount of consolidation and deconsolidation throughout the US 86 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 2: at various cross stocks. And then the third entity, which 87 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 2: used to be what we called our non asset business 88 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: but we changed a name to Integrated Logistics Services, is 89 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: our brokerage business, our intermodial business, our transportation management business, 90 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: or in our global freight forwardy business. So you know, 91 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: we don't have any We do have some assets. We 92 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: do run some reefer intermodial containers just up in the 93 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: Canadian market. But besides that, you know, we run a 94 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: traditional brokerage business. Albeit we're somewhat different maybe than a 95 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 2: lot of other brokerage firms. A lot of our business, 96 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: a good deal of it is contractual. We don't do 97 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: the spot market maybe as much as other brokers ms 98 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 2: do and so that gives us, you know, a little 99 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: bit more consistency. And then the fourth service offering is 100 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: our port logistics business. We operate pretty much every major 101 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: port on the West coast, down in the Gulf, in 102 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: the East coast except for New York, New Jersey. And 103 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: that's the traditional cal cartage business that we bought about 104 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: six years ago that gave us that entry, and that 105 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: includes the services we provide. There are both drage and transloading, 106 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 2: and we've grown that business tremendously. We built out, or 107 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: in a course of building out, additional transload facilities, mostly 108 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: on the East Coast. Just opened up a new one 109 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: in Savannah. I'm going to open up a new one 110 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: up in Norfolk, up in the Norfolk Chesapeake area. So 111 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: we continue to invest in that side of the business 112 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: as well. So those are our four core service offerings 113 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: and then let me just mention there's one other offering 114 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: that most three PO logistics companies don't have, and we 115 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 2: think that this gives us somewhat of a competitive advantage. 116 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: We're in the real estate business, right so not only 117 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: do we, you know, build some of our own buildings, 118 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: we build some warehouses for third party people. We've built 119 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: some commercial buildings as well. But we can really provide 120 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: value out of service to our customer base when they're looking, 121 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: you know, at the real estate market or they're looking 122 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: to build a building, you know, they can use our 123 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: expertise and that has helped quite a bit in closing 124 00:08:58,120 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 2: some deals for us. 125 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: Right. So, a lot of your businesses tend to touch 126 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: the trucking industry, So what are your thoughts on the 127 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: trucking cycle. I mean, it seems like we're bouncing along 128 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: the bottom. What are you seeing? 129 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: Well, you know the last well, first of all, we've 130 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: been in a freight recession in my opinion, since the 131 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 2: fourth quarter of twenty two, and we're still in that recession. 132 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 2: You wouldn't know it by you know, all the headlines 133 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: in the newspapers and articles out there how well the 134 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,359 Speaker 2: economy is doing. But I think that really hasn't transferred 135 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: into you know, additional volume as far as goods, goods 136 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: being moved and people buying stuff right, you know, it's 137 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 2: just not happening out there. So we started to see 138 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: a slow down like mid twenty twenty three. We're not 139 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: as susceptible to the huge swings in rates because we're 140 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: not in the transactional over the road business, you know, 141 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: as far as the trucking you know, we have contractual rates, 142 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: albeit you know, when they've come up for renewals in 143 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: the last twelve months, you know, we've we really haven't 144 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 2: lost any business, but we've had to be a little 145 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: bit more aggressive on the on the rates side, you know, 146 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 2: as far as have rates reach bottom. Every every time 147 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 2: you think that they reach bottom, it seems to be 148 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: a new level, right, But I think they're really at 149 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: a at a at a and a point now where 150 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: that you know, I don't think there's any more for 151 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 2: the shippers to squeeze out of us are Otherwise you know, 152 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: we can't replenish our equipment, would be uh moving freight 153 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: below our costs. So you know, we're kind of putting 154 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: the brakes on any more rate adjustments. 155 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: So when you talk about it, you know, first off, 156 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 1: you're in the dedicated business, so that's like more strategic 157 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: relationships with the shippers, so that's a great thing. And 158 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: then you know, the contracts don't come up for renewal 159 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: as often as over the road. So I'm just curious 160 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: when you said when you when you mentioned that you 161 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: know you've been aggressive on the rate side. Are you 162 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: talking about are you are rates coming down for you 163 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: or you're just not getting exactly as much increase as 164 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: you want because obviously entif I is dealing with their 165 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: own inflationary costs, whether it's equipment, insurance or what have you, 166 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: So you. 167 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: Know when business has come up for renewal, Okay, we 168 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: have been getting some small rate increases. We also have 169 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: been in order to keep some business, you know, if 170 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: it is core to our network. You know, we've had 171 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: to make some downward rate adjustments. More so, I think 172 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: is the fact that we've had to make some equipment 173 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 2: adjustments where you know, a fleet of forty or fifty 174 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: tractors because of the customers buy INDs you know, might 175 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: need only thirty five tractors right now. And then we've 176 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: also downsized the amount of trailers. So we've you know, made 177 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: between those three areas. Those are the adjustments we've made, 178 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 2: you know, over the last twelve months. 179 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: Right and you know, dedicated As a as an analyst, 180 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: when I look at a publicly traded company, it's always 181 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: a better business to be in than over the road 182 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: for a gazillion different reasons. What kind of pipeline does 183 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: does ENNF I have on the dedicated side? Is that? Like, 184 00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: is that something that you always have? It just a 185 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: huge pipe line because of the shift that shippers are 186 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: looking to maybe outsource their transportation needs. 187 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: But I can tell you this, in twenty twenty three, 188 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: we really did not bring on a lot of new 189 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: labels in our dedicated trucking operation. We didn't really we 190 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: didn't lose any business. But I think what customers were 191 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 2: doing was they were out there just putting out RFPs, 192 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: seeing what the market would bear, and then they would 193 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: use that information with their incumbent carriers to kind of 194 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: drive down the rates a little bit. And there really 195 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 2: were most customers we felt didn't really make that many changes, 196 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: you know, from their incumbent carriers. This year, you know, 197 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: we've got several startups that are happening right now as 198 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: we speak, so you know, starting to add some new labels. 199 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: You know, we've got a pretty stellar reputation as far 200 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 2: as on time performance and flexibility and working with the customers, 201 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: and then all of our diversification of other service offerings 202 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: kind of helps in furthering their relationships. So I'm looking 203 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: for this year to you know, to be much better 204 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: as far as adding on some additional business and keeping 205 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: our existing. 206 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: Right. Can you talk about you know, got typical current 207 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: customer like who they are, Like, is it the Walmarts 208 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: and the Targets of the world. 209 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: Is that you know, it's basically your fortune top fifty, 210 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: you know, we you know, Target and Lows are probably 211 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: our two largest accounts. Long term relationships with both do 212 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: a lot of business with Anheuser Bush, a lot of 213 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: business with Georgia Pacific, A lot of business with Bimbo Bakeries. 214 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: Huh so, a lot of business with Trader Joe's, a 215 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 2: lot of business with it used to be Nestley Waters. 216 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 2: Now it's called Blue Triton, right. Uh So you know, uh, 217 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 2: those are just a kind of a sample of some 218 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: of our larger accounts. 219 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm based in New Jersey and I see your 220 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: trucks all the time, and I'm always like, hey, thanks truck. 221 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: What if he's driving it? 222 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 2: I have a funny story about that. 223 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: Oh, please tell me. 224 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 2: So, my youngest son has been working in the warehousing 225 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: business for a while on the West Coast, and so 226 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: he needed to we transition. We have all of the 227 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: next generation on a on a plan to transition to 228 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: learn all the service offerings. So he transitioned or is 229 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 2: transition over to the trucking business. And he was going 230 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 2: to go to Northern Virginia. We've got four or five 231 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: projects there and he was going to oversee be a 232 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 2: director overseeing those projects. So was his idea before he 233 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: did that. He needs to know what it's like to 234 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 2: be a truck driver, so he went and got a CDL, 235 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: spent four weeks got a CDL, and then he went 236 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: into the NFI training program with a NFI professional trainer 237 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: for eight weeks. And now he's been for a month now. 238 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: He's been driving a truck from one of our operations 239 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 2: in Northern Virginia, delivering freight in North Jersey and in 240 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: New York and Long Island. So he's kind of wrapping up. 241 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: He has gotten what he needs out of that. He's 242 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: got a tremendous amount of respect, you know, from his peers, 243 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: you know, for what he is doing. So it was 244 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 2: a you know, it's a great opportunity for him. 245 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I I uh I. I was at a company 246 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: event and they let me behind the wheel and they 247 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: were trying they made They asked me to do the 248 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: test that they do in the parking lot, and I 249 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: murdered about a thousand cones. It wasn't it wasn't pretty. 250 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: It's it's very hard. It's a lot harder than some 251 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: people probably don't really grasp. But that's great. And listen, 252 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: if you're if you're ever in the market to adopt 253 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: a fifty four year old, you know, I might be available. 254 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: So just uh you know, switching gears. So the broker 255 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: you have, you're involved in the broker business. You said 256 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: your business is more contractual versus what you know, a 257 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: lot of maybe publicly traded companies are. The broker business 258 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: has been extremely volatile. We've heard ups mentioned that their 259 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: broker business is under strategic review. It was a uh 260 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, I think uh GB hunts was a loss. U. C. H. 261 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: Robinson disappointed. So can you talk about the business and 262 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: you know how twenty twenty three was for you guys, 263 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: and you know what you're looking to do in twenty 264 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: twenty four. 265 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: So even though we have a lot of contractual brokerage business, 266 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: that entity, that service offering is still being hit pretty heavy. 267 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: Our margins have been compressed substantially, our volumes, you know, 268 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: we're all and more afree, but you know, the margins 269 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 2: have have have shrunk. But you know, we're we seem 270 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 2: to be holding our own We have the we developed 271 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: our own technology and we put our own brokerage management 272 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 2: system into that operation. So we feel like we're each 273 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 2: brokerage person is more reductive. But still, you know, we 274 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 2: we still are suffering, you know, from the overall market. 275 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: So in that market. Do you think it's right for 276 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: consolidation or bigger isn't necessarily better from an NFI standpoint, Well. 277 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 2: There's a lot of markets that are right for consolidation 278 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: because some of the companies that have been operating, like 279 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: even the digital freight brokers, you know, and didn't really 280 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: have to show you know, profitability and show anything on 281 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: the bottom line. They were trying to focus maybe just 282 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 2: on the top line. And we're raising money left and right, 283 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 2: right in twenty one and twenty two. That's not happening anymore, right, 284 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: So some of we've seen a lot go out of business. 285 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 2: We see a lot that are struggled. 286 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: Convoy was one big name that that's no longer. 287 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, but and we see a lot that are struggling, 288 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: and yeah, I definitely think that there's going to be 289 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 2: some consolidation and just people dropping by by the. 290 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: Wayside, right, And you mentioned technology in the broker's business. 291 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: So do you guys develop your own in house technology 292 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: for most of your systems or are you taking stuff 293 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: off the shelf and maybe making it your own. 294 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: Well, we do a combination of both for the brokerage operation. 295 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: You know, we have a team of about fifteen people 296 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 2: that from Square one developed a whole new operating system 297 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: that we're using today. But for the other entities, it's 298 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: a combination of off the shelf and some homegrown. In 299 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 2: the truck and operation, we use tmw okay as our platform. 300 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 2: In the warehousing, we use Manhattan as our main WMS system. 301 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 2: On the port services, we use Trinium as our main 302 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: platform in that area. And then we've been able to 303 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: buy some additional bi tools and kind of like add 304 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: on type technology to enhance our ability to manage the operation. 305 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: Right, And I guess that's a constant investment that you're 306 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: always putting CAPEX dollars towards. 307 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: Yes, and that's seeing that's growing every year and the 308 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 2: budget we have for that continues to grow every year. 309 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: So, you know, the distribution e commerce, warehousing, cross doocking 310 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: that business. Can you give us a little more details 311 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: about you know, you know you mentioned crosstocking. Can you 312 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: explain to people what what that is and what types 313 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: of customers would use that service. 314 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 2: So let me give you an example of Target. So 315 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: we run in the central part of the US, in 316 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: the Chicago area. We run a consolidation cross stock for Target. 317 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 2: So there is a radius could be you know, three 318 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 2: hundred miles or maybe even more of Chicago where we 319 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 2: partner up. These are not NFI assets, but these are 320 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,239 Speaker 2: partners that we have in our brokerage operation, partner up 321 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: with different carriers and they bring in LTL shipments, maybe 322 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: some truckload shipments into our cross stock in Chicago, and 323 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: then we put those shipments into a distribution center lanes 324 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 2: that target has the ship all over the country, you know, 325 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 2: whether that be intermodal or that over the road. So 326 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 2: we're consolidating a bunch of different vendors uh in you know, 327 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: in the central part of the US, and then we 328 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: are loading up in different lanes to service the target 329 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 2: stores that. 330 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: We're assigned and so and then on the on the 331 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: distribution e commerce side, So do you do like fulfillment 332 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: for retailers or retailers that have an e commerce presence? 333 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: So, you know, we've always done some type of e 334 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,719 Speaker 2: fulfillment just because you know, we were doing the wholesale 335 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: and the retail distribution for a lot of different customers 336 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 2: in our warehouse, but there were some each picks that 337 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 2: we were you know sending out uh, you know, to 338 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: direct the customers but it was kind of on an 339 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 2: hoc basis. In the last year, we actually did stand 340 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 2: up a e commerce specific offering, small, very small, just 341 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 2: getting started. We're learning the type of customer that we're 342 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 2: going after is the kind of small to mid size. 343 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 2: Most of them I've never even heard of, because they're 344 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 2: not the customers we're doing business with on the warehousing 345 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 2: and on the trucking side. So we're you know, we're 346 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 2: kind of learning in that area. And you know, we've 347 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 2: got a pretty healthy pipeline. But like that pipeline and 348 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 2: most of our other pipelines, customers are taking longer and 349 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: longer to make decisions on what they want to do. 350 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 2: I think mainly because they don't really know what the 351 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 2: economy is going to do. I mean, there was a 352 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 2: great jobs report that came out today that you know, 353 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: I think that was somewhat surprising. 354 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially all the announced layoffs that we been hearing, 355 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: at least the headlines. I think that was very surprising. 356 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: So you know, what's happening is that you have a 357 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 2: very you can't predict, you can't forecast. Forecasting was never 358 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: very good to begin with. That we got from our 359 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: customers either on the warehousing side or on the trucking side. 360 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: Now it's even more shaky. But because they don't really 361 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: know what's going to happen with their business, I think 362 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 2: they're pretty much through the inventory glut. That's pretty much 363 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 2: over with. We've seen our imports started to pick up 364 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 2: in California in December. They picked up. I think January 365 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:46,239 Speaker 2: maybe traditionally pretty slow, although you know it, Chinese New 366 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 2: Year is going to probably spur some activity. But the 367 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 2: West Coast, which is traditionally over the last two years, 368 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: has been losing freight to the East Coast sports I 369 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 2: started to come back and you know, you know of 370 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 2: all the problems happened with the Panama Canal with a 371 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: lack of water, so that has kind of hurt so 372 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 2: some of the East Coast ports, and now with the 373 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: issues that at the Red Sea and that you know, 374 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 2: we're if things go on much longer, you know, you 375 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 2: could see some real backlog in some of that. Yeah. 376 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: And also I'm sure you're aware a lot of the 377 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: East Coast and Gulf Coast or have a labor negotiation 378 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: with their port workers coming up. I think it's September 379 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: this year, So are you because you see a lot 380 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: of stuff you guys I identify. So are you seeing 381 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: or hearing from your customer saying, you know, we're going 382 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: to divert some freight from the East coast or Gulf 383 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: Coast to the west coast weather it's because of the 384 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: Suez Canal, whether it's because these pending labor negotiations or 385 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: the Panama Canal or are you hearing that or seeing 386 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: that yet or are you're maybe just hearing it not 387 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: seeing it yet. 388 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 2: Well, we've seen some uh frank being diverted from the 389 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 2: East coast because of the Panama ket Canal to Houston, 390 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: and we've we stood up in operation in Houston about 391 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: a year ago so and we built a brand new 392 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 2: crosstock down there, so we're expanding in that Houston area 393 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 2: and also you know, being routed to the West coast. 394 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: So you know, I think if you, if you probably 395 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: take a look at and the numbers I don't know 396 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: if they're out yet year over year numbers of containers 397 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: for like Norfolk and Charleston and Savannah, they I would 398 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 2: suspect that they would be flat or even lower than 399 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: last year because some of these issues that. 400 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: Are happening right I guess something we're gonna have to 401 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: keep an eye on. And just going back to the 402 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: warehousing business, are most of your warehouses like shelves with 403 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: forkliffs or or there a sense of is there a 404 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: course that's automated? What kind of warehousing do you guys operate? 405 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: So we do both, it's a combination of both. Lately 406 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 2: we've been doing some pretty highly sophisticated automated robotic type 407 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 2: operations and some of the customers, you know, want to 408 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 2: keep some of that cap X upfront cap X off 409 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 2: their balance sheets, so we've been you know, taking that on. 410 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: So you guys would set something up for a customer 411 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: and you guys would do cost plus like of the setup. 412 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: That's how it kind of works. 413 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 2: Well, we do cost plus maybe for a period of 414 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 2: time and then we can move over to fixed variable 415 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: you know, kind of understand the operation. Some customers want 416 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: to continue on cost plus, you know, So we do 417 00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: a mixture of both. But you know, we do more 418 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: than the just traditional powered in, powered out. You know, 419 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 2: we've uh got involved in you know, many different types 420 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: of products that we're handling. Uh Where you just did 421 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: a bringing on board a warehouse down in Florida for 422 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 2: Coca Cola that is highly automated. That's been about a 423 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: year and a half in the in in the making, 424 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 2: in the works, and we're doing some things with total 425 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: wine UH UH automated warehouses and robots, you know, with 426 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: Membo and AGVs and UH and drones in the warehouse. 427 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: So we've you know, we've are experimenting with a lot 428 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: of different technologies. 429 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: Right okay, and so just a switch gears a little bit. 430 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: You know, you do have a large fleet in terms 431 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: of tractors. You operate in areas like California, there are 432 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: new emission regulations. Where is n FI on the UH 433 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: you know, sustainability journey. Are you guys early investors in 434 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: e V or other alternative fuels? If so, what is working, 435 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: what's not working? Interesting to hear your perspective on that. 436 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 2: So we've we've always been a leader in UH sustainability. 437 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 2: It's one of our core UH principles. You know, we've 438 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 2: we've been running electric vehicles now for probably four years 439 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 2: with Freightliner and Volvo, you know, in their first first edition, 440 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: second edition where I think we're into our our third 441 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 2: UH addition, they keep on increasing a little bit the 442 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 2: range of the vehicles we are in the process. 443 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: Are those mostly in California or is that just all 444 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: over the place. 445 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: It's all in California. The economics of electric trucks does 446 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: not pencil out unless you get grant money. Okay, And 447 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: and California, you know, has the most amount of grant 448 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 2: money because they have the most aggressive program you know 449 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 2: for environmental uh emission control. So you know, all of 450 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 2: our electric trucks, uh maybe we run a couple on 451 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 2: the East Coast, but you know, all of them pretty 452 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: much are based in California. We've got a truck terminal 453 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 2: that we just built in Ontario, California that's going to 454 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 2: have a hundred electric trucks, you know, by midyear running 455 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: out of there. Eight charging stations. The truck terminals built 456 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 2: right next to one of our warehouses. We're going to 457 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: be putting solar on the roof of that warehouse. So 458 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 2: the solar will feed the charging stations, and then the 459 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 2: charging stations, you know, will charge up the truck. So 460 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 2: will be an all electric fleet operating in California. 461 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. I'm curious. So you mentioned earlier in 462 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: the beginning of the podcast the fact that you have 463 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: a relatively low length of haul. So I guess, does 464 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: your debt work, assuming the economics workout, lend more to 465 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: the ev since they're coming back to I'm assuming your 466 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: warehouse or distribution center, and they can be charged for 467 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: however long it takes to charge them up. 468 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 2: So right now, most of the electric trucks over the 469 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 2: past couple three years, and then this new fleet that 470 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 2: we're standing up is going to be in our port 471 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 2: services operation. 472 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: Okay, going to the port. 473 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 2: Bringing it back to our warehouses, bringing it back to 474 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 2: other third party warehouses, which is all a short haul 475 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 2: type operation as well. But you know, with our some 476 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 2: of our dedicated fleets, you know, we said a number 477 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 2: of years ago, my brothers and I that we could 478 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: easily see thirty forty percent of our fleet being electric 479 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 2: because our drivers are home every night, our trucks are 480 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 2: back at the domicile every night, so we don't have 481 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 2: to kind of worry about the infrastructure, the charging infrastructure 482 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 2: that's out there on the highway because we would have 483 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: charging stations right back. The biggest challenge I think the 484 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 2: OEMs and the manufacturers are kind of moving along in 485 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 2: the journey of improving electric trucks, but I don't think 486 00:33:54,120 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: the utility companies are ready yet and can have the 487 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 2: power availability. That's been kind of the biggest stumbling block 488 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 2: as far as trying to get these operations up and running. 489 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, that's that's that's a that's a theme that 490 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: we we've been hearing as well in terms of the 491 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: infrastructures is not there even if it's for you know, 492 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: like a draage operation. So it's it's pretty interesting. We'll see, 493 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, how successful California is and if that's going 494 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: to work for the rest of the country. So, you know, 495 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: you mentioned in the beginning or third generation it's a 496 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: family business. You got fourth generation. I'm assuming you know 497 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: you got some pretty good advice from the generations before you. 498 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: What what piece of advice are you handing down to 499 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 1: G four about running a business, running an organization, and 500 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: being in transportation. 501 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 2: So we've we've put a huge amount of effor into 502 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 2: succession planning. Uh, and we started that years ago. So 503 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 2: you know, when somebody from the next generation wants to 504 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,879 Speaker 2: come into the business, they graduate college, they can't come 505 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 2: into the business right away. They have to go work 506 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 2: for somebody else for three to five years. And you know, 507 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: some of them have worked for consulting firms. Some of 508 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: them worked in the real estate business for Cushman Wakefield. 509 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 2: One of the cousins worked for Prologis, so, you know, 510 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 2: in various different things. And then they can come into 511 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 2: the business and depending on what service offering, warehousing, trucking 512 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 2: or whatever, start at the lowest level, right and so 513 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: you know, none of them report directly to any of 514 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: their fathers, but they, you know, have been able to 515 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 2: gain their own footing and they have a very good 516 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 2: work ethic. I think all of our I like to 517 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 2: believe that we've taught all our kids a good work ethic, 518 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 2: and you know, they have a They're in various different 519 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 2: areas of responsibilities, and all of them have have advanced 520 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: We we include them. You know, sometimes they have to 521 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 2: wear their owner's hat, sometimes they have to wear their 522 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,439 Speaker 2: employees hat. But we've we've encouraged them and we've made 523 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 2: it available to them to be in all different types 524 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 2: of meetings that we have, you know, whether they be 525 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 2: high level meetings on what we're doing in the real 526 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 2: estate business, what we're doing on cap X expense. Even 527 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 2: though they might be involved as a general manager of 528 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 2: a warehouse. So you know, we've exposed all different areas 529 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 2: of the operation. The difference is that this is almost 530 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,479 Speaker 2: a four billion dollar company and so much to learn 531 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 2: and understand. And it's different than when you know, my 532 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: brother sid, Jeff and I grew up in that we 533 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 2: just kind of grew up in the business and kind 534 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 2: of knew everything. And so they have their own family 535 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: business facilitator, you know that they work with so and 536 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 2: we have in the last two years, we brought on 537 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 2: a board of advisors. We don't have a formal board 538 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 2: of directors or a fiduciary board of directors. Is just 539 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 2: myself and my two brothers. So we brought on a 540 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 2: board of advisors that has helped us not only in 541 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 2: looking at things differently in the business, but also as 542 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 2: mentors to the next generation as as as well. So 543 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 2: we feel and we're told that, you know, we're kind 544 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 2: of unique. That you know, first of all that you know, 545 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 2: our brothers and I and third generation that we even 546 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 2: get along and most of the cousins get along. Not 547 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 2: only do we work together, we also vacation together several 548 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 2: times a year as well. And most of the people 549 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 2: at NFI we have a saying they bleed blue, you know, 550 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 2: because that's the color of our trucks. You know, because 551 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: they all feel part of the family business, and we 552 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 2: make them feel part of the family because they are 553 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 2: our extension of our family. We've got seventeen thousand employees, 554 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 2: so you know, that's a lot to the family. But 555 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 2: the way that my brothers and I kind of look 556 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 2: at that is, Okay, we have seventeen thousand employees. Average 557 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 2: family has three people. We feel responsibility for fifty thousand 558 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 2: plus people, you know, as far as you know a 559 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 2: making a living in a standard of living. And you know, 560 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: we encourage our people, We give them pathways. We have 561 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 2: leadership training. We've put a huge amount of money in 562 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 2: the last two years, not only in our IT technology, 563 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 2: but also in leadership training, people training, and so when 564 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 2: different opportunities arise within the operation or sales or we 565 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 2: most of the times we kind of promote from within. 566 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: That's great. And with this secession stuff, I don't know, 567 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: if you watch that the television show, it can get 568 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: pretty ugly at some companies. So just you know, we 569 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: need to wrap up here because we're coming in at 570 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: the end of our time. I'm just curious. So, when 571 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: you're not running NFI, what do you like to do 572 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: when you're not at work for fun? 573 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 2: Well, I don't nearly get involved in the minutia that 574 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 2: I used to get involved with. Okay, you know it's 575 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 2: my brothers and I always talk about it. God, when 576 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:04,839 Speaker 2: we were in this business, we were one of the 577 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 2: youngest people in this business, and it seemed like overnight 578 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 2: we're one of the oldest people in this business. And 579 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 2: a lot of people that we grew up with that 580 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 2: we used to meet at ATA or TCA or RelA, 581 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 2: you know, they're either retired or you know, not in 582 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 2: this business anymore. So what are we still hanging around 583 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 2: here for. So, you know, I've got four grandkids now, 584 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 2: so you know, I have the joy of spending time 585 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 2: with them, and even a greater joy when I'm finished 586 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 2: giving them back to their mother and father. So I 587 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 2: don't have to keep them. Uh you know, I play 588 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 2: play some golf. I've gotten involved in a lot of 589 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 2: philanthropic activities. Next year, I'm going to take over the 590 00:40:54,840 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 2: chair of the new Holocaust and Human Rights Museum that 591 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 2: I was instrumental in building in Dallas. Uh So I 592 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 2: have a big passion for that. I've been involved in 593 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 2: a lot of nonprofits, you know, within the Dallas area, 594 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 2: servicing you know, the homeless and the food bank that's there. 595 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 2: So I've gotten more involved in in philanthropic activities. And 596 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 2: then you know, kind of mentoring not my specific kids, 597 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 2: but you know, my nieces and nephews that are in 598 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,879 Speaker 2: the business as far as what they want to do. Right, 599 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 2: so there's there's no lack of activity. 600 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: All right, Well, that's great, and listen, like, I really 601 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: appreciate the time. It's always a pleasure of talking to you. 602 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: I always learn learn a lot, So thank you. 603 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I enjoyed always like talking about our company 604 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 2: because we feel very passionate and very proud of what 605 00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 2: we've been able to accomplish. 606 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: All right, great, and I want to thank everyone for 607 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: tuning in. If you liked the episode, please subscribe and 608 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: leave a review. We've lined up a number of great 609 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: guests for the podcast. Check back to hear conversations with 610 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: C suite executives, shippers, regulators, and decision makers within the 611 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: freight transportation markets. Also, if you have an idea for 612 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: an episode, please hit me up on the terminal we're 613 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: on Twitter at logistics Lee. Thanks everybody, and be safe 614 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 1: out there.