Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy Central. Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes.
Speaker 1: The podcast. It goes deeper in to topics and segments
Speaker 1: that originally aired on The Daily Show. This is what
Speaker 1: you gotta think of this podcast as, right, Like, if
Speaker 1: the Daily Show is the reality show, we're the reunion
Speaker 1: show where we all get to come together and talk
Speaker 1: about never before seen action. You know that of course
Speaker 1: sets the record straight dramatic cuts. Today we're talking about
Speaker 1: kpop and how this isn't an industry that just started booming.
Speaker 1: This has been a profitable market for decades, with bands
Speaker 1: like BTS and Black Pink and global fandom that helps
Speaker 1: South Korea in both the entertainment and economic sectors. Give
Speaker 1: it a clip.
Speaker 2: The next big step towards today's K pop was in
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, when major music studios started putting performers
Speaker 2: together in boy and girl bands. All right, Korea was
Speaker 2: doing that long before Simon Cowell's Nips Ever started poking
Speaker 2: through his T shirts. That's a no for me, dog,
Speaker 2: No surprise, This new wave of K pop blew up
Speaker 2: around the world. It featured complex melodies unlike any other
Speaker 2: pop music and always had next level dance choreography. To
Speaker 2: this day, those remain the signature elements of K pop.
Speaker 2: That and being Asian very important requirement. This new generation
Speaker 2: of K pop stars became so successful the government started
Speaker 2: to take notice and soon LUNT a program to promote
Speaker 2: career music around the globe. They saw K pop as
Speaker 2: a way to boost Korea's cultural strength and economy without
Speaker 2: having to do a squid game.
Speaker 1: To help us break this down a little bit more
Speaker 1: in the Beautiful Beautiful Beyond the Scenes Mothership, I am
Speaker 1: joined by daily show segment producer Sabrina li Sobrina.
Speaker 3: Hello, Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: That's mine, that's my NPR voice. How are you doing it?
Speaker 1: We're here to discuss Korean pop news. You're ready for
Speaker 1: a moving discussion?
Speaker 4: Abou Korean pop?
Speaker 1: And they just start NPR, they just start trailing. Also
Speaker 1: joining us is a postdoctoral associate at the University of
Speaker 1: Buffalo in their Asian Studies program, Stephanie Choi is here. Stephanie,
Speaker 1: how are you doing good?
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Let's get into this now. You all both grew up
Speaker 1: in South Korea, and I would assume that you're both
Speaker 1: early K pop fans. Uh Sabrina. I'll start with you
Speaker 1: speak to me about the impact of K pop on
Speaker 1: your life. Like the only thing I can even try
Speaker 1: and compare it to to even an attempt to understand
Speaker 1: what that music means for your country. It's just what
Speaker 1: hip hop meant for black culture in the nineties, where
Speaker 1: it just it was me, it was us, it was blackness,
Speaker 1: it was everything that like, oh my god, I'm we're
Speaker 1: into it, We're doing dances. Like what was that like
Speaker 1: when you were younger growing up in South Korea.
Speaker 3: I think that's a really good comparison because it really
Speaker 3: was part of my huge identity. And then like that's
Speaker 3: all I will talk about with my friends. And I
Speaker 3: actually thought about this yesterday while I was preparing, Like
Speaker 3: at school, we would have this desk, and I would
Speaker 3: have like stickers of my my group, my idol, and
Speaker 3: then like would put them on my desk and I
Speaker 3: would put them on like my books, on my like
Speaker 3: my pencils, you know, Like I was obsessed with them,
Speaker 3: and that's all I will talk about. And I was
Speaker 3: very proud to be part of like that fan club. Now,
Speaker 3: my group was TVXQ in English and Korean. Their called Tumbanshingi.
Speaker 3: They were like the second generation of K pop idol
Speaker 3: when K pop was going to like Japan and then
Speaker 3: like other countries like in Asia, not Europe or America
Speaker 3: at this time, but for that, I think that's when
Speaker 3: it kind of started. I was like very proud to
Speaker 3: be part of that because I always felt like like, oh,
Speaker 3: like this is my group, and like I am raising them,
Speaker 3: Like I think that's what a lot of like K
Speaker 3: pop fants feel like, like not like motherly feeling, but
Speaker 3: like I am raising this people, and then like I
Speaker 3: want everyone to know about my group because they're they're great.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: The thing I always found interesting about just as an outsider,
Speaker 1: and of course I was not aware of K popo
Speaker 1: well into my late twenties and thirties, but as an outsider,
Speaker 1: it was, wow, these kids are all the same age
Speaker 1: as all the kids that were like new addition was
Speaker 1: always just a little bit older. Yeah, you know, they
Speaker 1: were the same thing with new kids on the block
Speaker 1: and seeing they were always just three four years older
Speaker 1: than me, so like, oh, that's what I want to be,
Speaker 1: that's who you want to be. But it's like it
Speaker 1: seemed like it was almost as if witnessing the matriculation
Speaker 1: of your peers, which made it easier to root for
Speaker 1: them in a way, like Stephanie, for you, what was
Speaker 1: your introduction into that world.
Speaker 4: When I was young, I'm the I'm the first generation. I.
Speaker 4: Everyone loved ahot and I was one of them, you know,
Speaker 4: like everyone loves hot, so like you joined that, you
Speaker 4: are you know, naturally introduced to it through your friends.
Speaker 4: And then you know, I had this teenage rope when
Speaker 4: you know, you feel like you're special, So, oh, no,
Speaker 4: are K pop for me? But it's more like Korean rock,
Speaker 4: you know. So I spent the whole middle in high
Speaker 4: school years cheasing after this rock group. And then it
Speaker 4: was actually after I entered my m A program here
Speaker 4: in the States. Uh. By then I was already in
Speaker 4: my late twenties, and American K pop fans came up
Speaker 4: to me. You know, oh, I heard that you're from Korea,
Speaker 4: and you know, like, have you heard of Big Bang?
Speaker 4: Have you heard of Girls Generation? And I was like,
Speaker 4: that's for teenagers, right, But then I realized that, oh wow,
Speaker 4: like these adult fans are really you know, into K pop.
Speaker 4: So I got into K pop pretty late. And while
Speaker 4: I was doing my PhD. You know, like in fandom
Speaker 4: studies they suggest you to become a fan by yourself,
Speaker 4: and I was like, how can I become a fan?
Speaker 4: You know, you have to It's not like you can
Speaker 4: be a fan through by by trying, you know, to
Speaker 4: be a fan. So I was I was kind of trying,
Speaker 4: you know, I was following you know, Girls Generation and
Speaker 4: then some other groups, and then you know, it came
Speaker 4: in Korean. In Korean it's called the talk too. It's
Speaker 4: a combination word of of fan activity, you know, fanning
Speaker 4: and car accidents. So it comes like a car accident
Speaker 4: all of the sudden, you know, you just become a fan.
Speaker 4: And I got into Exo so bad, and it's been
Speaker 4: already nine years ius, so it's my heart for Kai
Speaker 4: and began like everyone has Vecian in their heart. It's
Speaker 4: getting bigger and bigger. I'm a huge fan of Exo
Speaker 4: and also Shiny. I'm mostly a fan of s that entertainment.
Speaker 1: How has k pop, in my opinion, in a way
Speaker 1: that other music genres has not been able to do,
Speaker 1: is really plug into their fan base and get their
Speaker 1: fan base to really be active, like it just break
Speaker 1: down these tears of fandom, because like the only thing
Speaker 1: again that I can compare it to. I remember back
Speaker 1: in the day, if I really like boys to men,
Speaker 1: I could write a letter to Jive Records and they
Speaker 1: would send back a poster and go, yeay, roy enjoy
Speaker 1: the boys demand poster. Hey you're a fan? Like, all
Speaker 1: I need to be a fan was a poster from
Speaker 1: a magazine. I'd get the sore so or right on,
Speaker 1: that's a deep cut that only specific black people over
Speaker 1: forty are going to get. But you would get a
Speaker 1: poster and that was it. You were saying, that was it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't this whole fucking airline frequent flyer gold silver
Speaker 1: medallion tears. Break break that down for us real quick.
Speaker 1: Stuff it and and let me know as well as Sabrina, like,
Speaker 1: how did that make you want to be more of
Speaker 1: a fan?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: Is it bragging? Right? Just break that down for us
Speaker 1: first Stephanie.
Speaker 4: It's really connected to the participatatory culture of Korean popular
Speaker 4: music scene. But if we look at the current scene,
Speaker 4: I would say the relationship is really the relationship between
Speaker 4: capob idols and fans are really centered around the transaction
Speaker 4: of intimacy. So you basically maintain both parties are trying
Speaker 4: really hard to maintain this exclusive relationship between the two.
Speaker 4: So there are many different marketing strategies there. One is
Speaker 4: to understand each other through a persona. So you understand
Speaker 4: idols as you know, the group persona. So for BTS
Speaker 4: it would be, you know, you understand them as BTS members.
Speaker 4: The BTS members, on the other hand, would understand fans
Speaker 4: not as individuals or too little strangers to them, but
Speaker 4: through the fan persona, the fandom persona, so they you know,
Speaker 4: once they meet these individuals, they would understand them as
Speaker 4: BTS armies. Exclusive intimate relationships.
Speaker 1: Right, So when you became a fan like and you
Speaker 1: sign up per se, does that create a sense of
Speaker 1: bragging rights to your to your to your friends and
Speaker 1: your classmates.
Speaker 3: Yes, Also that you also feel like you're part of
Speaker 3: this huge group you know, other than your family or
Speaker 3: like your school, you know what I mean. It's like
Speaker 3: joining like a different friend group that's so big. That's
Speaker 3: like obviously it's on the internet, but you know, like
Speaker 3: you just talked about boys to men, did you guys
Speaker 3: have like a name for the fans who loves But
Speaker 3: that's the thing I think that's very unique for K pop,
Speaker 3: Like right now we have bleevers for Justin Bieber, like
Speaker 3: Swifties for Taylor Swift. But like a lot of these,
Speaker 3: I mean not a lot, almost every K pop and
Speaker 3: their fan club fandom. I think that's what they call
Speaker 3: it these days. Back in our days, Stephanie and my days,
Speaker 3: we call it fan club. But I think now it's
Speaker 3: so global and international they call it fandom. But anyway,
Speaker 3: like all of this fan club has a name, so
Speaker 3: like it has its own identity. You know, it's not
Speaker 3: even only the name. They also have like each group
Speaker 3: has their own color. So my group, the TVXQ our
Speaker 3: balloon collars was pearl red. So everyone, all the fans
Speaker 3: if you go to concerts or if you go to
Speaker 3: this like music programs in Korea, like in the broadcast
Speaker 3: like stations, you would wear per red and or you
Speaker 3: would hold like the balloons that's per red, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. So's everyone has a very strong identity.
Speaker 3: I think that's very easy, right, And then you talked
Speaker 3: about the tears. When I joined the TVXQ fan club,
Speaker 3: I would join it, and it's like earning miles for airlines,
Speaker 3: so I would have to take this quiz, and the
Speaker 3: quiz questions would like so absurd. It would be like
Speaker 3: what would be this members like childhood pet's name, And
Speaker 3: if I don't get it right, I will not be
Speaker 3: able to go to the next tier of this fan club,
Speaker 3: like it's a fan page.
Speaker 1: How devastating is that?
Speaker 3: So devastating? So I would be like, while I need
Speaker 3: to study, you know, for my school stuff, I'll be
Speaker 3: studying my idol group and like their childhood and like
Speaker 3: googling and all this stuff, and I will be getting
Speaker 3: all these quizzes right, and I will make it to
Speaker 3: the next tier. So you become like almost addicted to it,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because like you get it
Speaker 3: right and the perks to that, then you would be
Speaker 3: able to see these exclusive photos that you won't you
Speaker 3: weren't able to see when you were like the tier below.
Speaker 1: So it's not even paywalled. It's just proved to me
Speaker 1: your loyalty and.
Speaker 3: Then true love, Like are you how obsessed are you?
Speaker 3: Can you prove it? You know? Like and I was
Speaker 3: truly obsessed with that.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. That's low key some pre social media level
Speaker 1: marketing and in terms of rewarding people, and not even
Speaker 1: in a bad way, just the idea of I'm going
Speaker 1: to reward you a little bit.
Speaker 3: You get it, Yes, exactly, because back then, like for
Speaker 3: first generation k pop and second generation k pop, we
Speaker 3: didn't have social media, so like these members of K
Speaker 3: pop groups weren't able to go on Twitter and talk
Speaker 3: directly to the fans, or like go on Instagram live
Speaker 3: and talk to the fans directly. So I think that
Speaker 3: was like our way, my way to like, I'm not
Speaker 3: having a real conversation, but I feel like i am
Speaker 3: because I'm learning so much about that, I'm proving my
Speaker 3: like devouted love for them, you know. So that's why
Speaker 3: I think it kept me going.
Speaker 4: At the same time, you know, when you take all
Speaker 4: those puzzes and get into that community, it's a it's
Speaker 4: an extremely closed community. So you have this very exclusive
Speaker 4: communication with your idol, you know, not you don't have
Speaker 4: to deal with haters or antis or reporters who might
Speaker 4: be you know, hiding somewhere and learking there, you know,
Speaker 4: looking for some some scandals or rumors or some conflicts
Speaker 4: between fans or idols and fans. But at the same time,
Speaker 4: it also gave more privilege to Korean fans because you know,
Speaker 4: these quzzes were changing every week or twice a week,
Speaker 4: so like you have to keep up with it.
Speaker 3: And international fas too.
Speaker 4: Had to translate it. And by the time they translate that,
Speaker 4: the stet of quzes were already you know, changed to
Speaker 4: a new one. Nowadays, I think a lot of them
Speaker 4: have changed to just you know, through payment you earn membership.
Speaker 4: Wow and yeah, yeah most yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, Stephanie, the depth to which you can speak to
Speaker 1: this goes really, really far. Because you wrote a dissertation
Speaker 1: on K pop fandom and the intricacies of it. What
Speaker 1: made you go this is interesting? Like was it? Was
Speaker 1: it the marketing aspect of it? Was it the human
Speaker 1: connection and the familial aspect of it? What made you go, oh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting, let me keep it Because you know, journalists
Speaker 1: and professors and educators you find a thread and you
Speaker 1: just keep pulling and pulling, en it and pull them in.
Speaker 1: What was it about K pop fandom where you went, yes,
Speaker 1: I need to know more about this phenomenon.
Speaker 4: The first thing that I found interesting was how many
Speaker 4: protests that were going on within the kypop fandom, and
Speaker 4: it was, you know, every time some idol gets married
Speaker 4: or you know, do something you know wrong or primary related.
Speaker 4: These fans would protest against their own favorite idol uh
Speaker 4: and the mass media would describe them as crazy fangirls.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, what was fascinating was that
Speaker 4: the company and idols were readily accepting their request. So
Speaker 4: I found that interesting. How you know, like from the
Speaker 4: outside they look delusional, you know, disorganized, hysterical, like these
Speaker 4: are the crazy bangirls. But at the same time, the
Speaker 4: way the company and idols reacted was more like, you know,
Speaker 4: there's some sort of rules and norms that theah outsiders
Speaker 4: wouldn't know. So I started from there and then found
Speaker 4: out that these female fans are actually they have a
Speaker 4: long history of organizing their own fandom. They are very
Speaker 4: active at political and cultural and social issues. They are
Speaker 4: very well organized. They know how to make their voice,
Speaker 4: and they know how to negotiate. So yeah, that was
Speaker 4: the starting point.
Speaker 1: The dissertation is titled gender Labor and the Commodification of
Speaker 1: Intimacy k Pop? How much do the artists and the
Speaker 1: record labels essentially the labels who control the artists, And
Speaker 1: that's global And that's not a criticism of k pop,
Speaker 1: The labels control the artists and music and all of music.
Speaker 1: How much does the influence of the fans. How much
Speaker 1: of it is constructive criticism versus na man, y'all, wiln.
Speaker 1: If that's who he wants to date, that's who he
Speaker 1: can date. You're not going to tell the k pop
Speaker 1: group member who he should and shouldn't be dating. Or
Speaker 1: does that go into like just if we really want
Speaker 1: to get into the weeds here, does the label pull
Speaker 1: this person aside and go, hey, you kind of don't
Speaker 1: need to date that person because it's going to mess
Speaker 1: up the ticket sales for the next year. Could you
Speaker 1: keep that relationship on the low? Or if you're going
Speaker 1: to be with her, tell her to dress different because
Speaker 1: it's scaring the fans.
Speaker 4: It's not about dating, per se. I would like to
Speaker 4: make that clear. It's not about the dating itself, but
Speaker 4: it's more about how fans want to get back of
Speaker 4: what they have invested in. So a lot of fans
Speaker 4: these days perform as promoters of their own idols. The
Speaker 4: idol market is so saturated, so competitive. You want to
Speaker 4: promote your idols out there so that you can also
Speaker 4: you know, make your idle famous and popular and eventually
Speaker 4: get more profit and that would lead to a better
Speaker 4: production for their next album, and then you you know,
Speaker 4: in return, you get better quality of performing production next time.
Speaker 4: So that's the that's the key pole system. So the
Speaker 4: difference between idols and non idol musicians is that idols
Speaker 4: basically perform fan service. So you not only perform music
Speaker 4: and dance, but you also provide some sort of fantasy
Speaker 4: to your fans, assuming that you're in this, you know,
Speaker 4: intimate relationship with your fans.
Speaker 1: If I could make an American comparison, it would be
Speaker 1: justin Timberlake and Britney Spears. When they were dating, it
Speaker 1: was like the beautiful unification of two fan bases. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's the greatest thing ever. And then when they broke up,
Speaker 1: they were like, oh no, And Timberlake took a hit
Speaker 1: for a second because he broke up with Brittany. How
Speaker 1: could you do that to Brittany. I'm not a fan
Speaker 1: of your music anymore. So I know it's not a
Speaker 1: one to one in terms of American American music to
Speaker 1: K pop, but just the idea of how much influence
Speaker 1: do the fans have on the evolution of an artist's
Speaker 1: career in K pop.
Speaker 4: The idle fan relationship in K pop is really centered
Speaker 4: around this idea of you know, in terms of male
Speaker 4: idols and female fans, for instance, it would be, you know,
Speaker 4: the male idols will be the boyfriend, female fans will
Speaker 4: be the girlfriend. And if you look at the all
Speaker 4: the video promotions and song productions, you'll see that as
Speaker 4: quite promoted based on that logic. So historically, if you
Speaker 4: look at the whole generation starting from the nineteen nineties,
Speaker 4: it really prioritized idol's chastity in public. So nowadays, you know,
Speaker 4: there's social media, you he has already know who's dating who.
Speaker 4: You know, there's no student, Yeah, they just close their eyes.
Speaker 1: Compare the fan bases, because it sounded like y'all like
Speaker 1: way bigger on being connected with the artists than Americans
Speaker 1: have ever been. There is no great musician that has
Speaker 1: had a fan base that I feel like is just
Speaker 1: wild than Michael Jackson. And I can't think of a
Speaker 1: name of anybody, like nobody was called the Jackson's the
Speaker 1: jackson Ears, the glitter gloves like color, yeah, the neverlanders
Speaker 1: like nothing. There was no colors to Michael Jackson.
Speaker 4: Concertain faint actually there was Bodlemania.
Speaker 1: Beatlemania, yes, but since then it's it's not a regular
Speaker 1: occurrence because I wonder if Beatlemania was more of the
Speaker 1: state of everyone being crazy about the Beatles, or did
Speaker 1: it instantly identify with it. Well, no, yeah, Beatlemania is
Speaker 1: probably the closest that we've had to anything in a
Speaker 1: long ass time. You know, I would argue, but how
Speaker 1: would you all compare the fan basis, Sabrain, I'll start
Speaker 1: with you, like, in terms of Korean K pop fans
Speaker 1: versus American K pop fans, are we getting there? Are
Speaker 1: we still behind the curve like we are?
Speaker 3: One? I think Swifties are there, Like I don't think
Speaker 3: they have their own color, but like they're obsessed with
Speaker 3: her and like they like, like, you know, I saw
Speaker 3: these trends. Every time she posts something, they like dissect
Speaker 3: every object in that video and think like, oh, this
Speaker 3: clock said it's five o'clock, so like the next album's
Speaker 3: coming out on like May fifth, you know, like they
Speaker 3: go crazy like.
Speaker 1: That, but it's ticketmaster to talking to Congress.
Speaker 3: But I know, but like that's exactly what I think
Speaker 3: these K pop fans do as well. So I think
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift very specifically to her. I think the kind
Speaker 3: of culture exists here and I can't speak to like
Speaker 3: the American fans who love K pop because I'm not American,
Speaker 3: and I love K pop because it was the only
Speaker 3: pop I knew, you know, when I was in Korea.
Speaker 3: But like you said, it's so the personal identity of
Speaker 3: this each fan club is so strong, and there's also
Speaker 3: like competition between other fan clubs, like, oh, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: make my idol sell this much album like for you know,
Speaker 3: for the new release, I'm gonna buy ten, and then
Speaker 3: my friend will be like, well, I'm gonna buy twenty
Speaker 3: for my idol.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like a competition between them too, and since it's
Speaker 3: so personal like that, and then like I told you,
Speaker 3: like I have to take all these stupid quizes to
Speaker 3: make it to the next tier. I spend so much
Speaker 3: time to it, and I think that's where this intimacy,
Speaker 3: or I think it's intimacy that I have a real
Speaker 3: relationship with these idols, which I don't, but that's what
Speaker 3: I think I do because I spend so much time
Speaker 3: to it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I think it's very well known that Korean like idols
Speaker 3: can't date each other, you know. I think that's where
Speaker 3: a lot of these things come from, you know. But
Speaker 3: but like these label companies they do have a dating band,
Speaker 3: universal dating band, like and then like I don't know
Speaker 3: if it happens these days, but back in my days,
Speaker 3: the label companies would like take your phones away so
Speaker 3: then you won't be able to like text whoever, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. It was very strict. I don't
Speaker 3: know if it's still like that, but it used to
Speaker 3: be like that just so that they could like protect
Speaker 3: that persona that stuff. And you talked about like you're
Speaker 3: this imagining boyfriend or imaginary girlfriend that like these middle
Speaker 3: school girl things that you are, so you need to
Speaker 3: like protect that image. I think that's where it's, like,
Speaker 3: you know, it all comes from.
Speaker 1: After the break, we're gonna talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: how these K pop stars are made, the actual recruitment
Speaker 1: of talent, the development of the talent, how they get
Speaker 1: to become Korean pop stars and idols, and we'll see
Speaker 1: if if it's too late for a forty four year
Speaker 1: old black man to go register for one of those
Speaker 1: K pop academies and see if I got the moves
Speaker 1: just beyond the scenes. We'll be right back beyond the scenes.
Speaker 1: We were talking about the world of K pop here
Speaker 1: what I would love to do define K pop as
Speaker 1: a genre as because me ignorant American man from Birmingham,
Speaker 1: Alabama didn't meet my first Korea until the eighth grade,
Speaker 1: which is that's a true statement. By the way, I
Speaker 1: fell in love with a group called Epic High. So
Speaker 1: my introduction to K pop was FIFA video games back
Speaker 1: in the day. My introduction to just international music as
Speaker 1: a whole was video games. The music they would play
Speaker 1: in the menu when you're choosing your team and making
Speaker 1: modifications so you squad. That's how I learned about most
Speaker 1: music that they do not play on traditional terrestrial radio
Speaker 1: and American So Epic Hi had this song called Fly
Speaker 1: Fly Hi, and it was so optimistic, beautiful and aspirational.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what they were. I still don't know
Speaker 1: what they was talking about in the verses, but when
Speaker 1: they got to the hook, it was so beautiful. You
Speaker 1: can fly higher, higher than the birds in ah. And
Speaker 1: then I watched the video. The video for this song
Speaker 1: is a robbery and a man's carjacking in Eventually the
Speaker 1: man is killed by police sniper at the end of
Speaker 1: the video. It is the darkest dichotomy of optimism and hopelessness.
Speaker 1: It was beautiful, That's what made it so beautiful. And
Speaker 1: then I go to talk to one of my friends,
Speaker 1: like like years later the K pop I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like EPICAI and that's not.
Speaker 4: Capo hip hop, but is Korean Korea.
Speaker 1: And I've never felt more like an accidental racism in
Speaker 1: a moment. So let's just straight up define K pop
Speaker 1: as a genre as it differs from every other type
Speaker 1: of means that comes out of Korea. So I don't
Speaker 1: sound stupid.
Speaker 3: I think it's it. Epici is hip hop artist. So
Speaker 3: like if you tell some like Epici fans, I do
Speaker 3: believe they have their own names too.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna join that group. I know I'm a
Speaker 1: little late to the party.
Speaker 3: If you tell their fans that they're K pop, they
Speaker 3: would be offended because they're above kve pop, like they're
Speaker 3: real artists. Now, I think that sense where it comes
Speaker 3: from is because when you become K pop idols, this
Speaker 3: label company has like signed you a training contract, which
Speaker 3: I don't think it exists in America, Like for example,
Speaker 3: like In America, I think you just upload a video
Speaker 3: on YouTube you singing, and then somebody sees you and
Speaker 3: they sign you, and then you become an artist more
Speaker 3: or less. In Korea, you have to go to like
Speaker 3: this training school and they made you sign a trainee
Speaker 3: contract where you have to follow whatever they tell you,
Speaker 3: whether that's taking Chinese class whatever, like English class, philosophy class,
Speaker 3: dance class, music class, or like going on a diet
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna check your weight every week. All that
Speaker 3: maybe some of the dark sluss exactly. So like a
Speaker 3: lot of idols go through that process and then this
Speaker 3: big label companies they also have like a concept of like, oh,
Speaker 3: the next idol group that I'm gonna make, it's gonna
Speaker 3: be five cute girls wearing school uniforms talking about their
Speaker 3: first love like innocence. So like even if that's not
Speaker 3: who you are, if you signed this training contract and
Speaker 3: you became part of this group, like you're gonna be that,
Speaker 3: Like that's your image going forward, Like are you following
Speaker 3: me when I say so? But like Epicai was not that,
Speaker 3: you know, like they were.
Speaker 1: It's a creative autonomy from the jump exactly.
Speaker 3: So I think I think that's that's the difference.
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit if you can, Stephanie just about
Speaker 1: the idea of because you're going into these academies, you
Speaker 1: got to be going, like I would imagine, somewhere between
Speaker 1: ten to twelve years old, to come out thirteen to
Speaker 1: fourteen polished, so we can get a good ten year
Speaker 1: runway out of you. You know, as an artist, how
Speaker 1: much you know? In America we talk about the idea
Speaker 1: of child stars and not knowing how that corrupts the
Speaker 1: psyche of a child on the backside of it, when
Speaker 1: they're done with stardom and they're twenty eight and trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what the hell they want to do
Speaker 1: and they're finally not famous for the first time in
Speaker 1: their life. How much of a kid's childhood are they
Speaker 1: sacrificing to these camps? How much of your youth are
Speaker 1: you trading in exchange for this attempt at being a
Speaker 1: huge global megastar.
Speaker 4: When they're too young, when they're preteen, the companies wouldn't
Speaker 4: sign idle training contracts because they're too young. They might
Speaker 4: change their dreams. You don't know. They only sign trainee
Speaker 4: contracts right before they make their debuts, so right before
Speaker 4: you know, they when they already invest in all the
Speaker 4: album production and you know they already have the debut
Speaker 4: the so called debut team. But until then, usually these
Speaker 4: trainees spend as short as six months and as long
Speaker 4: as eight years. You know, if you make your debut
Speaker 4: in a pretty late age of twenty or twenty two.
Speaker 4: You know, in terms of childhood, I actually get lots
Speaker 4: of questions from mass media, especially from Western mass media,
Speaker 4: you know how abusive the kpole system is? Do they
Speaker 4: even have childhood? And I, you know, tell them back,
Speaker 4: you know, it's this exceptional and k pop though, you know,
Speaker 4: in all fields across performing arts and sports, like, what
Speaker 4: kind of system allows you to you sleep?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 4: It will you know, do all the things that you
Speaker 4: want to do and still be the best. So I'm
Speaker 4: not saying that, you know that there's.
Speaker 1: A trade off regardless.
Speaker 4: Of I'm not saying that the environment is not abusive,
Speaker 4: but I would say that, you know, it's it's it's
Speaker 4: the problem of the system. So do we ever talk
Speaker 4: about and also the perspectives that Western mass media brings
Speaker 4: into K pop? Do we ever talk about diet plans
Speaker 4: of the horrible diet planes of ballerinas. Do we talk
Speaker 4: about you know, marathon or other Olympic athletes daily routine
Speaker 4: of you know, practicing or or or pianists, famous pianists,
Speaker 4: you know, practicing for like six seven hours a day. Like,
Speaker 4: isn't that abusive? How can we never talk about that?
Speaker 1: You know, well, because that's American. We don't talk about
Speaker 1: American stuff. We got to criticize.
Speaker 4: You're already very used to it. So you know, all
Speaker 4: of a sudden, you know, you you find this new
Speaker 4: thing called k pop, it's a new performing arts and
Speaker 4: you know, like these kids are so abusive. They're going
Speaker 4: to this boot camp, you know, uh, harassed by the adults.
Speaker 4: But you know it's not a yes or no question,
Speaker 4: but it would be more about then, you know, how
Speaker 4: do adults within this industry, what kind of what kind
Speaker 4: of efforts do they put in to protect uh these
Speaker 4: trainees at best, and I would say for the company,
Speaker 4: they arrange all the you know, once they they move
Speaker 4: to the dorm, which is often close to the company building,
Speaker 4: they would you know, rearrange all this school uh new schools.
Speaker 4: And then also you know, sometimes if it's need it,
Speaker 4: then the trainees would you know, the companies would provide
Speaker 4: lessons for the trainee schoolwork, and then there are also
Speaker 4: allowed not allowed to you know, practice during the night time.
Speaker 4: But then there are always legendary stories of you know,
Speaker 4: successful idols sneaking into the company building, you know, at night,
Speaker 4: and then like wait until the guard leaves, and then
Speaker 4: you know, practice all day long, all night long. Another
Speaker 4: thing I want to bring up is why is this
Speaker 4: narrative of the so called the dark side of key pop?
Speaker 4: You know, if you google the Dark Side of Key
Speaker 4: Pop compared to the Dark Side of America Pop, you'll
Speaker 4: find nothing from by googling the Dark Side of America Pop,
Speaker 4: but you'll find tons of English articles that is entitled
Speaker 4: the Dark Side of Key Pop talking about the abusive
Speaker 4: environment of key pop. And I would rather I want
Speaker 4: to ask, you know, how come does abuse narrative is
Speaker 4: so popular and how come this abusing system is so
Speaker 4: transparent in kip hop because you know this is not
Speaker 4: you in any child labor industry correct also in American
Speaker 4: pop industry. You know, we've seen Free Brittany, Mickey Mouse Club.
Speaker 1: But I think therein lies the difference in the coverage
Speaker 1: of the two abusive systems is that within the Korean system,
Speaker 1: I would argue that there is an entity, there is
Speaker 1: a governing body, There are three labels. There is an
Speaker 1: actual building where you can go and go for every
Speaker 1: failed childhood actor in America, for every musician that burned
Speaker 1: out from a rigorous tour schedule at twelve thirteen years old.
Speaker 1: I did morning radio, hip hop radio for almost fourteen years.
Speaker 1: Some all come through, all the thirteen fourteen year old
Speaker 1: rappers and saw them all burnt out at seven o'clock,
Speaker 1: And then no kid should be up this early to
Speaker 1: do media on a regular basis. But because in America
Speaker 1: there is no academy for rap, there's no place for
Speaker 1: a parent to go and drop off their child for
Speaker 1: a couple of months to live in a dorm to
Speaker 1: learn how to rap. You just wrap around at the
Speaker 1: local club, a label guy sees you. So the system
Speaker 1: is more it's more jello. So it's hard to really
Speaker 1: concretely identify who's wrong and who's the person to fingerwag at.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why the coverage is. There's such
Speaker 1: a disparity, you know, in the coverage. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you have an opinion on that or
Speaker 1: not Sabrina, But I just think that in America because
Speaker 1: there is no formal system system like that totally. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even influencer culture in this country, which I think is
Speaker 1: negative in the greater good of you know, what some
Speaker 1: of these kids are going through and what their fans
Speaker 1: are consuming. That's not even really regulated by our governments
Speaker 1: at all, you know, Whereas in Korea, I know they're
Speaker 1: like introducing it into after school care and they're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out ways to hey, let's tiptoe into this
Speaker 1: in ways that aren't necessarily going to the big bad
Speaker 1: government building. So like, I just I just think that
Speaker 1: that's probably why it's not as much of a coverage
Speaker 1: Because if you were to write the same article about
Speaker 1: the American child labor entertainment industry, who would you point
Speaker 1: the finger at? Who is the right? Who is the person?
Speaker 1: Like it's all Kaiser Sosa everywhere but nowhere type of stuff.
Speaker 5: Totally, If you made a great point, I would say,
Speaker 5: it's more at the problem of the system, Yes, And the.
Speaker 4: Good and bad thing about that is that, you know,
Speaker 4: it's really hard to change the system. At the same time,
Speaker 4: it can be expanded into a an issue of legislation
Speaker 4: and more discussion of the entire industry.
Speaker 1: Well, after the break, I want to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about my experience with the wonderful group ESPA, who
Speaker 1: made a visit to the States, and we also want
Speaker 1: to get into the economics of this. We're bringing it
Speaker 1: home talking about K pop. Let me go in google
Speaker 1: this epic high fan group so I can pay twelve
Speaker 1: dollars and get an epic hip post. I'm a forty
Speaker 1: four year old man. This is beyond the scene.
Speaker 3: I need to google it too. My best friend will
Speaker 3: kill me if I don't remember the name.
Speaker 4: I got a check if kaised up meat bubble messages.
Speaker 1: Beyond the scenes we are bringing at home talking about
Speaker 1: k pop. Stephanie Sabrina, thank you for educating me and
Speaker 1: also allowing me to embarrass myself, not saying that I
Speaker 1: thought of Korean hip hop group.
Speaker 3: No, but I was impressed. You know Epici.
Speaker 1: Yes, that is the only song I know. I've not
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to google other things.
Speaker 3: Oh, I go it was high school high schooler family.
Speaker 1: All right, Well then I'll be high school. I'll take that.
Speaker 1: I also only knew of BTS because of Saturday Night
Speaker 1: Live and the second song they did on SNL Boy
Speaker 1: with Love, I was like, oh no, that's a jam.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's a jam. And then I
Speaker 1: started playing it on beat Saber on my VR headset,
Speaker 1: and now I'm in love with that group. I had
Speaker 1: an opportunity to do a field piece with the group
Speaker 1: Espa who. I'll be honest and saying Stephanie, I did
Speaker 1: not necessarily know a lot about before the when I
Speaker 1: was told I was doing the piece, you know, you
Speaker 1: go do your research so you can learn a little bit.
Speaker 1: And the more I listened to their music, the more
Speaker 1: I felt right and not having known it, forty year
Speaker 1: old black guy not their genre, pretty sure that was
Speaker 1: at their target demo when they got in the studio.
Speaker 1: But but we're out on this double decker bus shooting
Speaker 1: footage and stuff, right, And I've been out with American celebrities, right.
Speaker 1: And this is also a compliment to the fan to
Speaker 1: K pop fandom. Right. American fans, I believe tend to
Speaker 1: want a little more than just a photo. They want
Speaker 1: a moment. They want today, How the kid, where's your fail?
Speaker 1: How long you gonna be in New York?
Speaker 5: Man?
Speaker 1: That's a double decad but do you like double decord?
Speaker 1: But can I get a picture? Whereas what I saw
Speaker 1: with EsPAS fans come up, they do their little peace
Speaker 1: sign ESPA do the peace sign back, and wherever they were,
Speaker 1: they were on top of a bus taking selfies with
Speaker 1: strangers on the sidewalk and the strangers angling the camera
Speaker 1: up to get the selfie. And it was almost understood,
Speaker 1: like to your point about I don't want to bother
Speaker 1: you at dinner, so I'm just gonna sneak a photo
Speaker 1: where it was understood, this is not an opportunity for
Speaker 1: us to have a conversation, but I'm still going to
Speaker 1: give you this moment, and the fans understood that it
Speaker 1: needs to be brief. And it was just like every
Speaker 1: block four or five photos between setups, and the fans
Speaker 1: were just so appreciative and waving and just shooting b
Speaker 1: ro footage, Like I'm just amazed at that level of
Speaker 1: just connectedness in how brief it was, how brief, and
Speaker 1: how profound it was. Do you learn that at the
Speaker 1: at the at the Korean k Pop School Academy of
Speaker 1: Music and Fandom, Stephanie, or is that just a skill
Speaker 1: set that's developed over.
Speaker 4: Time I think fans have been developing how to interact
Speaker 4: with their idols, and of course there are you know,
Speaker 4: the crazy ones. Fans call them hussanssing comes from the
Speaker 4: term sassan, which means privacy. So someone who invades idols privacy,
Speaker 4: you know, the stalkers. But fans always discussed themselves from hussaying,
Speaker 4: and you know they're real fans would learn how to
Speaker 4: respect idols schedules and privacy, and that's how you know.
Speaker 4: And also like these days, everything is filmed and will
Speaker 4: be on social media, and that really represents the reputation
Speaker 4: of the fan club. So fan clubs are also very
Speaker 4: much aware of how to maintain their own reputation and
Speaker 4: gain respect on social media. So I think it comes
Speaker 4: from respecting the idol and also from respecting yourself.
Speaker 1: Brina, how much has K pop's global economic impact benefited
Speaker 1: the country of South Korea?
Speaker 3: Wow? I mean I was thinking about this this morning
Speaker 3: when I moved to the States, and you were to
Speaker 3: tell me, like some K pop idol we're going to
Speaker 3: be on SNL or like this podcast going to talk
Speaker 3: about K pop, or like they're gonna go on morning shows,
Speaker 3: like you know, some late night shows I would have
Speaker 3: laughed at you, like I would have not believed you.
Speaker 3: You know, like when I moved here, I still listened
Speaker 3: to a lot of K pop and watched a lot
Speaker 3: of K dramas, you know, all that stuff. But like
Speaker 3: I never dis actively discussed theF with my American friends
Speaker 3: because like why would I. They would never understand, you know,
Speaker 3: they don't know what it is. But nowadays, like people
Speaker 3: like you know, Stephanie said, like people come up to
Speaker 3: me and be like, oh, do you know black Pink?
Speaker 3: Do you know this? Do you know this? So like
Speaker 3: from a very personal point of view, I think it
Speaker 3: had a very positive impact of like Americans and a
Speaker 3: lot of international just you know, global people like more
Speaker 3: curious about this small country called Korea.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Like but you know, I feel like a lot of time,
Speaker 3: when you think of Asia, a lot of people would
Speaker 3: think of like China or Japan. But now I feel
Speaker 3: like Korea also became like kind of like a big
Speaker 3: name that everyone kind of all of a sudden associates
Speaker 3: with Asia and then like you're very curious about it.
Speaker 3: So I think it's very positive impact. And also you know,
Speaker 3: like this year, Netflix announced that they're going to have
Speaker 3: like the biggest ever lineup of K drama, so like
Speaker 3: that's not K pop, but it's still part of like this.
Speaker 1: It's all part of the culture.
Speaker 3: It's all part of the culture, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: Netflix is like doing the biggest lineup and investing all
Speaker 3: this money in K drama show that's you know, going
Speaker 3: to air globally. So I think it's I personally love it,
Speaker 3: and I think it's great because now I can I
Speaker 3: don't even need to convince my friends to watch my
Speaker 3: American friends to watch it, they just watch it and
Speaker 3: talk to me about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think what makes it really interesting to me,
Speaker 1: Stephanie is because you know, as an American, we traditionally
Speaker 1: think of ourselves as the factory of entertainment for the
Speaker 1: rest of the world. But now Korea the curator. They're
Speaker 1: not the consumers, they're the curators. So I would imagine
Speaker 1: that has to be good for tourism and shit and
Speaker 1: making people at least want to maybe go see a
Speaker 1: K pop concert in Korea instead of going to a land.
Speaker 4: Definitely not just for concert tours, but I see lots
Speaker 4: of international students, college students coming to Korea during the
Speaker 4: summer or you know, spend their whole year in Korea.
Speaker 4: You'll see lots of young generation coming to Korea and
Speaker 4: learn more about Korean culture. And then I also see
Speaker 4: lots of young air national utubers who are you know,
Speaker 4: talking about Korean culture in Korea while they live in Korea.
Speaker 1: Now, as you research you know, your forthcoming book about
Speaker 1: the global impact of k pop stardom, Stephanie, What's changed
Speaker 1: and what stayed the same over the years in this
Speaker 1: genre of music in terms.
Speaker 4: Of fandom, the market has become broader than before. At
Speaker 4: the same time, I also see some political changes. I
Speaker 4: think it's not just a problem of keypop, but because
Speaker 4: of the current changes in global politics, I see also,
Speaker 4: you know, more conflicts of ethnic nationalism and xenophobia in
Speaker 4: international capap fandom as well, you know, coming from a
Speaker 4: Korean fandom, but also from other translocal fandoms as well.
Speaker 1: How much does social media play a role in that
Speaker 1: political influence? You think in the sense of most musicians
Speaker 1: don't want to get into politics political issues across all genres.
Speaker 1: They just want to make music. But then as your
Speaker 1: fans become more you know, suppressed or dealing with injustices,
Speaker 1: And I think that globally, political movements are more connected
Speaker 1: because of social media. So if there's something like if
Speaker 1: you look at say, stop Asian hate in the States,
Speaker 1: which I imagine doesn't have the same level of gravity
Speaker 1: in Korea because it's just a different environment. But if
Speaker 1: an Asian artist is coming over here to perform for
Speaker 1: a for predominantly Asian audiences, they might go, yo, man,
Speaker 1: we need you to say something about the bullshit. So
Speaker 1: are you finding are you all finding that more groups
Speaker 1: now or even within the parameters of what still keeps
Speaker 1: them within without choosing a side, because I always feel
Speaker 1: like there's the politicians and then there's the issue, and
Speaker 1: there's the issue that's hurting the people. Like do you
Speaker 1: at least see them? Do you see more artists now
Speaker 1: at least speaking about the issues?
Speaker 3: I would think so, But I think it depends on
Speaker 3: certain topics, like for example, like BTS was invited to
Speaker 3: the White House and talked about Asian hate I think
Speaker 3: a year ago or two years ago. Two years ago, well,
Speaker 3: I thought it was a little sus because they're not
Speaker 3: Asian Americans, like you said, in Korea, like everyone's Korean,
Speaker 3: So there's no Asian hate. If there's hate is just hate,
Speaker 3: you know, koreating crime on Koreans.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: But the White House decided to invite BT to talk
Speaker 3: about Asian hate, which I don't think they ever experienced
Speaker 3: because they don't live in this country, you know, but
Speaker 3: they were brave enough to talk about it. And I
Speaker 3: think just to see Asian k pop this group at
Speaker 3: the White House, I think had like a lot of
Speaker 3: gravity to a lot of fans out here in America.
Speaker 3: So I would say, like, they do speak of that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, but like I would Stephanie correct me
Speaker 3: if I'm wrong, But I wouldn't think they would, like
Speaker 3: like how Taylor Swift is very anti Trump, right, Like
Speaker 3: I don't think any of the BTS members or any
Speaker 3: of the K pop idols would be like, oh I
Speaker 3: hate the current president right now in Korea. Like I
Speaker 3: don't think anyone would be that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think. Yeah, I don't think many American
Speaker 1: artists wouldn't be until their Taylor Swift Stadium status right anyway, Like,
Speaker 1: but just that sense of speaking about an issue that
Speaker 1: may be a lightning rod for their fan base, Like
Speaker 1: it might be such that they're but if if you're
Speaker 1: an Asian American, just seeing them at the White House
Speaker 1: trying to stir it up make you then feel like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: the administration won't listen to me Joe blow the voter,
Speaker 1: but they might listen to BTS, which is sad.
Speaker 3: To say, but I think, yeah, what do you think
Speaker 3: are there?
Speaker 1: Is there a little bit more of a political lean
Speaker 1: in terms of just issues, not politics, but not politicians.
Speaker 1: But do you see more of a conversation around issues
Speaker 1: from a lot of K pop artists today versus you know,
Speaker 1: if we're talking about what's different from then versus now.
Speaker 4: I think that Korean entertainment industry in general really gets
Speaker 4: away from, you know, making political statements. Entertainers should remain asked,
Speaker 4: you know, someone who would entertain people without any political bias.
Speaker 4: So I think it's not just for keyp idols, but
Speaker 4: for you know, actors. Actors are I think that more.
Speaker 4: You know, they make a bigger voice when it comes
Speaker 4: to politics, but when idol's definitely not. But I see
Speaker 4: how they are trying to give positive influence through a
Speaker 4: more universalized issues such as you know, peace, love and justice.
Speaker 4: You speak yourself, love yourself, so you're not you know,
Speaker 4: leaning toward a specific political goal, but rather you know,
Speaker 4: they're giving the seed of activism to the translocal communities.
Speaker 1: And let's end on a question about change. If we're
Speaker 1: talking about where K pop was and where it is now.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say his name, but I know
Speaker 1: of a I know of a white dude personally who
Speaker 1: moved to Korea to seek out a career in K pop,
Speaker 1: probably about seven eight years ago. How are non Asian
Speaker 1: aspiring K pop artists? I don't want to say treat it,
Speaker 1: but how hard is it to merge into that? Like,
Speaker 1: do y'all have an eminem yet? Like who is the
Speaker 1: non native person of that music genre? Does that analogy?
Speaker 3: Maybe Lisa from Black Pink, she's Tie, so maybe some
Speaker 3: Americans might think she's Korean because she looks Asian, but
Speaker 3: she's not Kurgan.
Speaker 1: I guarantee a lot of Asian. I'm sure a lot
Speaker 1: of Americans.
Speaker 3: Is me educate you? She's not Korean, although she's fluent
Speaker 3: in Korean and English, and like obviously she like you know,
Speaker 3: she's from Thai, so she speaks Thai as well.
Speaker 1: But is that something that could have even dared to
Speaker 1: have happened fifteen years.
Speaker 3: Ago, fifteen years ago, twenty let's.
Speaker 1: Go twenty, Like, how much is.
Speaker 3: That first generation?
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly it's accepted the group is a hit, right,
Speaker 1: so it's not like people hate her because she's tied.
Speaker 1: But in terms of the evolution of it becoming more
Speaker 1: multicultural and becoming more K pop not necessarily being solely
Speaker 1: the property of Koreans anymore, or it's not something there
Speaker 1: are other people in the sandbox? Now, do you see
Speaker 1: that evolution continuing, Stephanie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was also the first black K pop idol,
Speaker 4: O CenTra.
Speaker 1: I think, oh, yes, send me here, we're going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are.
Speaker 4: Little changes in K pop, but you know, as far
Speaker 4: as K pop will sustain uh relying on the cultivation
Speaker 4: of intimate relationship between idols and fans, it will be
Speaker 4: more of a problem of how much this non Korean
Speaker 4: idol can communicate well with the local fans. First, the
Speaker 4: Korean fans nice whom you will need almost every week
Speaker 4: or every month during your promotion activities, and a lot
Speaker 4: of companies offer Korean language lessons. So I don't think
Speaker 4: it has been a problem, but it will be more
Speaker 4: about the cultural proximity that you feel too to non
Speaker 4: Korean idols. But at the same time, I also see
Speaker 4: how like more and more companies are really focusing you know,
Speaker 4: overseas market. You know, they don't just reside in Korea,
Speaker 4: but they you know, seeing what bts they focus more
Speaker 4: on overseas market, and that's how you know they they
Speaker 4: stretch out beyond Korea. So I see a lot of potentials,
Speaker 4: but there will be definitely more conflicts and negotiations going on.
Speaker 1: So I get what you're saying, Stephanie. The idea of
Speaker 1: other cultures and other races entering into kpop and there's
Speaker 1: access within. It just still boils down to their ability
Speaker 1: to connect with the fan base.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but also with the lack of multicultural experience with
Speaker 4: Korean society, that will be also it's still changing, but
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's really still very new to Korean society.
Speaker 4: The Korean government launched this multicultural agenda only by two
Speaker 4: thousand and six, so only by then they started to
Speaker 4: recognize this you know, multicultural population in Korea, So it
Speaker 4: will be late, but I would also expect more voices
Speaker 4: coming from you know, international fans and non Korean residents
Speaker 4: in Korea. So we'll see I mean Korea, Korea is
Speaker 4: always you know, changing fast, so who knows.
Speaker 1: Well we look for to the book breaking it all down.
Speaker 1: I think that's all the time we have for today. Stephanie, Sabrina,
Speaker 1: thank you all for going beyond the scenes with me.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: Listen to The Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 6: Wherever explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe
Speaker 6: by searching The Daily Show wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 6: Watch The Daily Show week nights at eleven ten Central
Speaker 6: on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Fair
Speaker 6: Amount Plus.
Speaker 1: This has been a Comedy Central podcast