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Speaker 1: What's up everybody. Tom middle Koff from the Three and

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Speaker 1: Out podcast brought to you live, not exactly live, because

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Speaker 1: we're recording it by the Colin Coward podcast Network. Coming

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Speaker 1: up today, I went off the beaten path a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I'm having my guy, Eric Burkhardt, who's Johnny Manziel's agent.

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Speaker 1: He represented Bradley Chub this year in the NFL Draft,

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Speaker 1: who went number five overall to the Denver Broncos. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He represents case Keenum that signed a big contract this

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Speaker 1: uh this offseason with the Denver Broncos. I'll have him

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Speaker 1: on just to kind of talk about his business. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's a younger guy, how he got into it, how

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Speaker 1: he's kind of how he dealt with Johnny, how he's

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Speaker 1: developing clients, some of the rules. Just kind of an interesting,

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Speaker 1: interesting conversation that I found a lot of you guys

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Speaker 1: might enjoy. It's you know, it's a thirty plus minute interview.

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Speaker 1: UH So let that go and at the end, I'll do,

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Speaker 1: like always the Middlecoff mail Bag. If you go to itune, subscribe,

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Speaker 1: rate and in the review section leave your questions and

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Speaker 1: I'll get to them at the end of the pot.

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Speaker 1: I got a bunch. I might spread them out over

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Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, uh and kind of mix

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Speaker 1: them in as I do some of the as some

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Speaker 1: of these guests, and I'm gonna have some guests on. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's the summer months. Not as much coming out in

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Speaker 1: the NFL in terms of storylines, because not anything's happenings.

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Speaker 1: You know, in a perfect world, nothing's happening. Because if

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Speaker 1: something happens now, unless a guy signs a big contract,

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Speaker 1: which Aaron Donald cleil mac could, it's probably gonna be

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Speaker 1: an arrest. And you know, we'll talk about that here.

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Speaker 1: But if you're a team, you do not want that

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Speaker 1: to happen. So let's get into my interview with with

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Speaker 1: the agent Eric Burkhart, one of the most progressive agents

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Speaker 1: I know, active on Twitter, see them all the time

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. Uh in in Texas right now, Eric Burkhardt

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Speaker 1: of Select Sports. What's going on? By Man? How you doing?

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Speaker 1: How are you John Mann? Huge fan of the pod.

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Speaker 1: You're doing some great things, putting out some great content.

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Speaker 1: So I love I listened everything, I consume as much

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Speaker 1: as I can. Always trying to learn, always trying to

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Speaker 1: get better. So thanks for having me on man, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm excited about it, no problem. I you know, I

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Speaker 1: think I first heard of you, uh you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess your most polarized and probably famous client to Johnny

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Speaker 1: Manziel several years ago. But since then, I mean, you've

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Speaker 1: had a ton of clients. Now Johnny's back on the

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Speaker 1: client list again now playing. See if they had a

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Speaker 1: game the other night, didn't they saw Himssuli was playing.

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Speaker 1: They did, Yeah, they lost in Calgary. It was the

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Speaker 1: first opener. Um. I didn't catch most of the game.

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Speaker 1: Johnny still trying to figure out, you know, that sport.

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Speaker 1: It's a whole different thing, is you know, And so

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Speaker 1: he had something like seven or eight practices all through camp,

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Speaker 1: and so he's trying to figure it out. So he's

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Speaker 1: not playing yet. But Jeremiah Massoli, who's a damn good

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Speaker 1: player kid from Oregon, I'm sure you remember him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think transferred Old miss and he had a pretty

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Speaker 1: decent game. But they came up a little short there

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Speaker 1: against Calgary and they're staying on the West coast or

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Speaker 1: or they're about to play Edmonton this week. So I'm

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Speaker 1: now the CFL grew. I've kind of you know, I've

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Speaker 1: learned a lot about the league, the sport, and how

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Speaker 1: it all works. And it's a fascinating situation and really

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Speaker 1: fun to watch. So start, let's start with Johnny. It's

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Speaker 1: actually pretty cool because when I was in the league,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it was easy to find the games.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've flipped on. I'm like, oh, that's Missoli,

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Speaker 1: that's Johnny's team. They're on ESPN now. So even if

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Speaker 1: he doesn't play this year, it's a two year contract.

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Speaker 1: If he plays next year. I heard June Jones actually

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Speaker 1: on NFL Network saying he thinks Missoli will get some

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Speaker 1: looks this year at the end of the year. So

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Speaker 1: if Massoli moves on to the NFL, maybe Johnny has

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Speaker 1: a chance to start next year. But all the teams

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Speaker 1: are gonna be able to scout him because he's gonna

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Speaker 1: be on ESPN over their summer break. Yeah, it's exactly

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Speaker 1: anything else right now. And it's funny. I could never

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Speaker 1: find a game either. I remember months ago and Johnny

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Speaker 1: and I were kind of vetting the opportunity and he's like, well, ship,

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Speaker 1: let's let's get on in, uh watch a game, and

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Speaker 1: we're just try YouTube games to watch some tape right

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Speaker 1: and uh, and we finally found some stuff like well,

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Speaker 1: why are they punting on third down? Like it's you know,

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Speaker 1: shot clocks like sconds. So it's like it is very

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Speaker 1: fast paced. And now I know all of his games

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Speaker 1: are kind of on the SPM plus, so I know

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Speaker 1: they got my a month or whatever it is to

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Speaker 1: be able to check the games there and kind of

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Speaker 1: stream of him. So, you know, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people talk to talk, you know about they want

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Speaker 1: to be in the NFL. They want to be in

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Speaker 1: the NFL, but eventually that you know, I've seen guys

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Speaker 1: get cut or whatever. It just ends. But they still

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Speaker 1: may have the ability to play in the CFL, especially

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Speaker 1: younger players. You gotta scientifically for two years, so you're

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Speaker 1: kind of stuck up there, and a lot of guys

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Speaker 1: don't want to do it as a Canadian football league.

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Speaker 1: He kind of put his money where his mouth is,

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Speaker 1: uh and did it. And you know, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people were somewhat shocked, like, wow, he actually

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Speaker 1: did it, because I think we've heard a lot of

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Speaker 1: players over the years dropped the CFL and then never

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Speaker 1: even crossed their mind to go up there. Now he's

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Speaker 1: up there. Yeah, he doesn't have the ability like let's

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Speaker 1: just say he was the MVP of the league this year,

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Speaker 1: or somehow he starts and he couldn't come back this year.

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Speaker 1: Could he's up there for two years? That's a loaded question, John,

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Speaker 1: one that I've bett is very very heavily um and

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Speaker 1: looked at with you know, all the way up and

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Speaker 1: down their league. So I think, you know, we'll see

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Speaker 1: what happens. I wouldn't say never, say never. I think

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Speaker 1: there's some possibilities and some some options we've we've looked

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Speaker 1: about and discussed. But yeah, it's a two year commitment

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day at least, So he's

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Speaker 1: okay with staying up there for two years if you

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Speaker 1: asked to Oh yeah, man, look he's just turned twenty

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Speaker 1: five years old. I mean he's still young and at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, like you said, a lot

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Speaker 1: of guys, oh, I love football. I love football. Like

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Speaker 1: how far are you willing to go to get what

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Speaker 1: you want? Whether it's in broadcast, radio, NFL front office?

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Speaker 1: Is being an agent? Like I know my story, I

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Speaker 1: know your story is like how you know how much

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Speaker 1: ship are you willing to eat to get to where

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Speaker 1: you want to get to and he's come down a

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Speaker 1: whole different paths if he was holding that trophy coming

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Speaker 1: out of A and M as a first round pick.

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Speaker 1: And Johnny is very self aware and he understands that.

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Speaker 1: So when I took him back on as a client,

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Speaker 1: we didn't talk about football for the whole first year

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Speaker 1: and we just got his life in order and and

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Speaker 1: helped him do a lot of the off the field

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Speaker 1: things and continue to get the help that then he needs,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of us do, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: areas of our lives and um, and he was willing

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Speaker 1: to do anything. So man, we did the spring league

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Speaker 1: to put the helmet back on, take some hits, get

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Speaker 1: in shape, all of that before we even did the CFL.

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Speaker 1: And so he like he said, I I'm proud of

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Speaker 1: him for putting his money where his mouth saying, look,

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Speaker 1: I want to go play football. I want to be

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Speaker 1: around a group of guys that have a common goal

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Speaker 1: and they work hard for something. That's what I missed

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Speaker 1: the most is that locker room. Let's go do this thing.

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Speaker 1: So um, he's doing it. You fired him once upon

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Speaker 1: a time along I did. Obviously, that was probably the

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Speaker 1: lowest moment of his you know, if some of his

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Speaker 1: career was that hard for you, Oh man, it was

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Speaker 1: the toughest thing I've ever had to do in my career.

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Speaker 1: I've I've never had to let a client go and

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Speaker 1: you know, him and I had a lot of heart

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Speaker 1: to hearts and at the end of the day, you know,

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Speaker 1: I do this for all of my guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: to get the best out of them. And it got

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Speaker 1: to a point where, you know, I was already looking

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Speaker 1: for the next opportunities, the next wations, the next deals,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Johnny would be on his best behavior

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Speaker 1: until he knew he was good at his next spot.

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Speaker 1: And it did. It sounds cliche, but it got to

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Speaker 1: the point where I felt like I was damn good

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Speaker 1: at what I did, but it was almost to my

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Speaker 1: clients detriment. And that was a real conflict for me, where, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've got your next situation, maybe after Cleveland or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is figured out already. I need you to be

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Speaker 1: great for a month. And he would do that, and

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Speaker 1: then the situation would come about and it was wheels

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Speaker 1: off again, and I said, you know what, it's to

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Speaker 1: the point where it's hurting you personally. UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I made a promise to you and your family

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Speaker 1: coming into this thing, that um, that I'm always gonna

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Speaker 1: do it's best for you personally first and business will

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Speaker 1: always come second. And that's just who I am as

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Speaker 1: a man and the promise I make to my guys.

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Speaker 1: And when when it got to that point, I knew

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Speaker 1: I had to do what was right for for him

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Speaker 1: long term. And you know, professionally was the hardest thing

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Speaker 1: I ever, you know, have done. I mean I walked

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Speaker 1: away from millions of dollars and deals that I had

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Speaker 1: negotiated off the field. Um, and uh, you know that's

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Speaker 1: that's real business, that's real money. Put it in a

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Speaker 1: lot of blood, sweat and tears into that stuff, but

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Speaker 1: at the expense of his personal life, and knowing that

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Speaker 1: we needed to get him some help, UM, I had

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Speaker 1: to walk away. And UM, I'm glad I did because

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Speaker 1: he did help. You know, I was still very involved

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Speaker 1: in his personal life after that, I just walked away

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Speaker 1: professionally and continue to help him. And it came full

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Speaker 1: circle about a year and a half later when he

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Speaker 1: showed up and said he'd be You're You're the one

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Speaker 1: person that's always been there always done what's the best

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Speaker 1: and you know, not the one person along with his family,

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Speaker 1: friends and now his wife and you know, I want

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Speaker 1: to give this thing another shot professionally. Can we explore that?

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Speaker 1: And I said, if you do an ABC and D

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Speaker 1: I'll look at it. And uh, and he did them

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Speaker 1: all and it's been great. Now, So that was that story.

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Speaker 1: That's cool, man, I I would imagine because I know

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Speaker 1: I do, you know, get emails or d M s

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Speaker 1: or whatever about people looking to get into the media

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Speaker 1: or get into how I got into scouting. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you get a lot of you know, how do I

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Speaker 1: get into become an agent? How do I become an agent?

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Speaker 1: You know? So what's your story, bro? Like, how did

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Speaker 1: it come? Just maybe started in high school? Did you

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Speaker 1: you know where you're from, where you went to college?

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Speaker 1: Kind of how led you to where you're sitting now? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I definitely get multiple requests the week for advice. I

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Speaker 1: try to help out the young guys as much as

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Speaker 1: I can, because I know nobody really responded to me

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Speaker 1: coming up and so, um, you know, try to advise

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Speaker 1: as best I can. I'm not one of these guys

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Speaker 1: that says, no, never be an agent. It's the worst

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Speaker 1: profession ever. I mean, I love what I do. It's

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Speaker 1: been my passion. You know, I found what what I

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Speaker 1: feel like, I'm you know, blessed to be able to

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Speaker 1: do and what I'm good at where my talents are

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Speaker 1: in play every day. And you know, I started on

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Speaker 1: from San Antonio, Texas UM down south. I ended up

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Speaker 1: going to undergrad at Texas Tech University, and uh, there

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Speaker 1: I just became really typed friends. It's like a lot

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Speaker 1: of guys that enter the business with click. Keith Ferry,

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Speaker 1: who's the head coach out there now, he was the

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Speaker 1: quarterback at the time, going into his sophomore year, and

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Speaker 1: uh and his teammate Wes Welker, who went on to

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Speaker 1: arguably I think should be a Hall of Famer. I mean,

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Speaker 1: West was an absolute beast. When you stack up kind

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Speaker 1: of his numbers and his what he did against a

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Speaker 1: lot of other people, and you got out of all

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Speaker 1: the same age, the three of you. Yeah, we were

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Speaker 1: all the same age. Yeah, Cliff was a year older actually,

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Speaker 1: but West was was my age and we kind of

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Speaker 1: came in. So Cliff was taking that starting role and

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Speaker 1: I was kind of I didn't play football, so I

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Speaker 1: was kind of I guess you could say, the smart,

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Speaker 1: good friend that they could trust and rely on. And

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Speaker 1: you know, junior and senior year agents started coming around

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Speaker 1: hitting them up like crazy, and they just kind of

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Speaker 1: started passing me in their cell phones. Hey e B,

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Speaker 1: will you help me with this process? Man? Will you

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Speaker 1: will come sit into this meeting? My parents can't make

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Speaker 1: it up to this one or whatnot. And um so

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Speaker 1: I kind of just helped, you know, the vetting process.

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Speaker 1: Next thing, I knew, every agent in the country was

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Speaker 1: picking me up trying to get to those guys, and

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Speaker 1: I was kind of the posse man. I was kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of asked the right questions and meetings

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Speaker 1: and try to figure out what all these agents were

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Speaker 1: about when they came from, what their different experiences and

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Speaker 1: niches were. And you know, that's how I really learned

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Speaker 1: the business. At the time, I was trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out what I wanted to do with my lots, so

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Speaker 1: I didn't know. I knew it was gonna be sports.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure coaching in some aspects the media. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was trying to figure that out. After I sat

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Speaker 1: through about three or four of those meetings. Um, I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's really interesting. You can take a guy

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Speaker 1: all the way from A to Z. I love the

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Speaker 1: marketing side, I love the legal side. I loved the

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Speaker 1: negotiations and really at the end of the age, just

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Speaker 1: being there for somebody man and help them develop um

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Speaker 1: and look after their best interests, you know, all the

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Speaker 1: way along. You know every aspect of it, which which

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Speaker 1: is a ton especially now you know thirteen years later

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Speaker 1: and so I uh, I none of my family went

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Speaker 1: to law school. I ended up, you know, researching kind

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Speaker 1: of the top agents in the business. I saw that

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Speaker 1: most of them had a law of legal background. So

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Speaker 1: I got myself in a law school, got a master's

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Speaker 1: in sports administration as well, and started my company, Burkhart

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Speaker 1: Sports Enterprises. That first year in law school cellphone business card.

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Speaker 1: I had masters classes at night, law school all day.

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Speaker 1: Had no idea what the hell I was doing. Who

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Speaker 1: is your first clients? My first clients? Cause I sat

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Speaker 1: Western Cliff Off with some other guys that I trusted.

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Speaker 1: Was a guy I don't know if you remember, Vincent Meet,

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Speaker 1: the safety from Sex and Set could really really run.

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Speaker 1: Was a huge recruit coming in started as a true freshman.

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Speaker 1: I think he was probably by his senior year, about

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Speaker 1: thirty five pounds heavier than he should have been. Um,

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Speaker 1: not quite the fourth three guy anymore, but he gave

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Speaker 1: me a shot. We ended up as an undrafted player

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Speaker 1: in Washington's camp, did not make their team. But uh,

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Speaker 1: you know he believed to me. Is the first one

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Speaker 1: to believe in me, so the first one. Yeah, do

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Speaker 1: you remember that that first deal you negotiated, did you

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Speaker 1: get that you know, extra little signing bonus as an

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Speaker 1: undrafted free agent? I do. I think it was like

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Speaker 1: bucks or whatever. I think I have a scratching call there,

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Speaker 1: like he'd will give the kid a thousand bucks. And

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Speaker 1: I remember how proud I was calling him, going, dude,

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Speaker 1: I got it up to pretas. She was like, let's ride.

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Speaker 1: That's why you're my guy. And you know, now you

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Speaker 1: just add three or four zeros all those things. But

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Speaker 1: it's really the same feeling and the same work goes

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Speaker 1: into every deal, whether it's an undrafted guy who you

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Speaker 1: really believe in or or Bradley Chubs the number five

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Speaker 1: pick of the draft. It's really about your want to

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Speaker 1: and how hard you're gonna push to maximize all of

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Speaker 1: his opportunities. Who's your first client get drafted? Remember drafted

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Speaker 1: was I don't remember it was that following year. I

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Speaker 1: think I had three drafted within a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: So you were basically based Texas Tech was kind of

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Speaker 1: your home base. Got some of those guys. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're what twenty five years old? How does then it

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Speaker 1: grow over the next five six years to like where

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Speaker 1: you become an actual you know, we're not just an

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Speaker 1: agent with a couple of undrad free agents, but you know,

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Speaker 1: a roll of ex clients. Yeah, I mean I I

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Speaker 1: ended up going out to law school in Miami, Florida. St.

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Speaker 1: Thomas University had a great Spurts administration master's program, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I ended up down there. And then it just so

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Speaker 1: happened West was cut from the Chargers that first year.

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Speaker 1: Dolphins picked him up, and so Dalphins picked up what

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Speaker 1: so he was living out there in Miami two and

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Speaker 1: I really just started hustling on the marketing end. I

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Speaker 1: saw a niche there were, you know, I go make

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Speaker 1: West five thousand dollars for a little appearance here his

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Speaker 1: he makes seven thousand year. Really just hustling to make

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Speaker 1: these guys some mone the off the field UM and

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Speaker 1: developing those relationships, helping out is every foundation I could

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Speaker 1: super Bowl Host Committee. UM, I'm not real sure if

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Speaker 1: some of those guys ended up signing over with me.

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Speaker 1: I've partnered with the guy at the time, our first

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Speaker 1: real recognizable guy. We got wind of a guy out

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Speaker 1: of Canada named you've you've heard of him, named Sam Wake,

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Speaker 1: and Wake was up there in the CFL destroying people.

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Speaker 1: I mean there was one of those like obvious like

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Speaker 1: oh my god, yes, like that dude just starting the

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Speaker 1: end in the NFL, like that's attends that guy, which

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Speaker 1: we don't fill that out very often. I understand how

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Speaker 1: Rare Especial I went up to watch him and we

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Speaker 1: signed to him and helped bring him down to Miami

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Speaker 1: UM at the time, which was a sizeable deal coming

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Speaker 1: from the CFL and UM from there, I uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: you just keep working, You put your head down. Signed

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Speaker 1: two or three guys a year. And I looked up

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Speaker 1: and I had graduated law school and got my master's

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Speaker 1: four years later, and you know, had about twelve thirteen clients,

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Speaker 1: most of which no one had ever heard up still,

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Speaker 1: but you know, word of mouth travels quickly, and you

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Speaker 1: treat people right, and you know, um, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: fortunate and lucky in a lot of respects. Those relationships

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Speaker 1: I had back at Texas Tech, where I mean that

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Speaker 1: staff was unbelievable. Mike Leach was the head coach, the

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Speaker 1: offensive coordinate co offense coordinators for Dana Holgerson who was

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Speaker 1: at West Virginia now and Sunny Dike who has been

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Speaker 1: you know, been all over the place town now he's

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Speaker 1: at s m U. So running that coach was Art Gryles,

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Speaker 1: who an Za Baylor. So when a hundred you know,

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Speaker 1: big twelve championships in a row, coming from not winning

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Speaker 1: a game in five years. Um kings Bury was the quarterback.

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Speaker 1: The fifth string quarterback was Lincoln Riley, who's now at Okakahoma. Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was unbelievable, just that tree that originally

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Speaker 1: started there. And I had a relationships with all those guys,

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Speaker 1: and so it says, you know, very much a relationship

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Speaker 1: driven business, and you treat people right. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not the maybe the smartest guy in the world, right,

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Speaker 1: but uh, if you treat people right and work your

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Speaker 1: ass off, I think you can accomplish anything. And now

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Speaker 1: we've grown along with my partners to be you know,

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Speaker 1: definitely a top three U farm in terms of number

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Speaker 1: of clients and contracts under management in the NFL. If

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Speaker 1: we have a hundred five guys in the NFL and

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Speaker 1: coaching and executive division out with over thirty five clients, um,

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Speaker 1: you know OBSTI nationwide and we're continuing to grow and

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Speaker 1: and grow around the right people. Well, you just had

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Speaker 1: your highest drafted player ever in Bradley Chubb, who was

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Speaker 1: you know, has hyped of a defensive pass rushers. Feels

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Speaker 1: like maybe beside Clowney, of of anyone the last several years,

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Speaker 1: you know, right up there, Miles Garret kalil Mack. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just just the total package, you know, high character. Talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the process of landing him. We

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Speaker 1: all see when you're sitting in the draft room where

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Speaker 1: I mean in the green room and he gets his

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Speaker 1: name called. But what about you know this time last

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Speaker 1: year or as the fall comes, like when when was

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Speaker 1: the first time you met him? When's the first time

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Speaker 1: you knew When's the first time that he told you

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Speaker 1: I'm in with you? I mean, what's it like? We

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Speaker 1: all see the end result of you holding him? Five

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Speaker 1: of them hugging him. But what did you don't have that?

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Speaker 1: It's not like you've known him since high school, right,

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Speaker 1: you just get a short period of time while he

383
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Speaker 1: playing college football. Yeah, yeah, I know. The recruiting process, unfortunately,

384
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Speaker 1: is three quarters of the battle in our business. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's fierce, it's competitive. Everyone's obviously on a player like

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Speaker 1: Bradley Chubb and offering everything under the starn And that's

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Speaker 1: one where he comes from an unbelievable family, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they wanted somebody who was going to take care

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Speaker 1: of him on and off the field and and always

390
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 1: do the right things. And that's just who they are

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Speaker 1: as people. So I mean some of the offers, uh

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Speaker 1: they were getting were just unbelievable. But it's just you recruit.

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Speaker 1: You sit down with a family and a young man

394
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Speaker 1: and you tell them who you are as a person

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Speaker 1: and what you think you could do for them and

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Speaker 1: why that's maybe different than some of the other things

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Speaker 1: that have been done in the business, and um, and

398
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Speaker 1: you draw it out and you build a relationship. And

399
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,960
Speaker 1: so never was the first time you met him? So

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Speaker 1: which hub it was? Shubb? Was the first time I

401
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 1: met Bradley was about this time last year I went

402
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,119
Speaker 1: up and you gotta go through the whole compliance, you

403
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 1: know situation and meet with you know, NC State and

404
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,199
Speaker 1: their officials and agent days and all of the you know,

405
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 1: North Carol Ryn, I has a bunch of crazy laws

406
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 1: where you can't even contact a player and all of

407
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 1: this stuff ridiculous. He can, he can go through that

408
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,159
Speaker 1: and meet with you because he's going to be a senior.

409
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Speaker 1: He's gonna be a rising senior. Yeah, like, as you know,

410
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Speaker 1: sixty five percent in the first round in first second

411
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,920
Speaker 1: round now aren't and coaches don't want them to meet

412
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Speaker 1: with agents. So it's unfortunate because what happens in those

413
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Speaker 1: scenarios is these kids are trying to figure out their

414
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,199
Speaker 1: business owner and agents are gonna be in two weeks

415
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Speaker 1: and they take five meetings and everybody sounds in saying

416
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,119
Speaker 1: there's no relationship or trust built. And it's a real

417
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 1: difficult situation. I don't know the right answer to it.

418
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,119
Speaker 1: But with Bradley was a long recruitment. I mean I

419
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 1: believed in him. Um, you know, I knew who he

420
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 1: was as a person and who his family was. He's

421
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,600
Speaker 1: got an older brother as well, Um, who's a you know,

422
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Speaker 1: when he's played in with an All American player at

423
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Speaker 1: Wake Forest and I got you know, so it's just

424
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 1: a long, grown out process. I think it was probably

425
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 1: three of Bradley's games last year, you know, in person,

426
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Speaker 1: just watching him play and um, so that's when that

427
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 1: first meeting happens. Do you leave it going, Okay, we

428
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,440
Speaker 1: got a chance, you know, no, because you always think

429
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 1: you have a chance, right, like and I've thought for

430
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 1: sure I was gonna sign a guy, and like it's done,

431
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: and then you don't, right because there's always some weird

432
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 1: stuff that happens to the end of day. I left

433
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,439
Speaker 1: the first meeting going that family is unbelievable. That's somebody

434
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 1: that I would absolutely be honored to have an opportunity

435
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 1: to represent. And I think that's really what first meetings

436
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 1: are about. It's like I walk in, you can tell

437
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 1: right away they may not drive with me. I may

438
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: not be what they're looking for and pure you know,

439
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,679
Speaker 1: I mean, you've never met someone you're trying to get them.

440
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 1: It is, but it's not as much pressure as doing

441
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,160
Speaker 1: an eighty million dollar deal for a player in free agency.

442
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,080
Speaker 1: If you can't handle a recruiting meeting or process with

443
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 1: a you know, a young college player way before you

444
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: know what he's gonna be or what round he may

445
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: go in. UM, then you're not cut out for the business.

446
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 1: So it's there's always pressure involved. That's every day. So

447
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: once you meet with them that first time, once the

448
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 1: season starts, are there rules like are you allowed to

449
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 1: just can you text with them? Whenever? Does he have

450
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,160
Speaker 1: to text you? How does that work? Every states they're from,

451
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 1: every school is different. He's got to really reach out

452
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: to you. So then it's like, really you get the

453
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 1: blessing to kind of meet the family. Even then it's

454
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,439
Speaker 1: like I'd go to games and it was like you

455
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 1: can't ship with the family that you They may think

456
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna buy him a back of peanuts meeting in

457
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 1: the school, which is ridiculous because you can't give him

458
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: anything about Like there's all these ridiculous rules and regulations

459
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 1: and don't pertain to any other business in America. UM,

460
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 1: But you do what you gotta do and we don't

461
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: break rules. Like I said, I represent NFL coachers, college

462
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,360
Speaker 1: coaches executives, so we play by the rules and they

463
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 1: are what they are. And you know, it's really about

464
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 1: trying to do the best you can to develop a

465
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 1: relationship and show a family and a young man what

466
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 1: you can do. And then obviously after you sign him,

467
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: then it's you know, executing the plan that you put

468
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,880
Speaker 1: together for that specific player. When was the first time

469
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 1: he told you you were his guy? There wasn't until

470
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: after his bowl game, you know, so like after the

471
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: ball game, which he didn't even play him this year,

472
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: which I thought was a smart move by him. Um

473
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 1: So after the bowl game, then it's kind of, hey,

474
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: you know, when can we get together. I'm taking final

475
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 1: meetings or or I'm with you and what is my

476
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: plan gonna be? And and then you go sign him?

477
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 1: He said he didn't back to the ball game really quick.

478
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 1: He didn't play in that that was Was that because

479
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 1: you weren't signed with him yet? Was that just his idea?

480
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of players who Christian McCaffrey, Leonard

481
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: Fournette did it last year. Was that just something he

482
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: knew he was gonna go so high? You know, it's like,

483
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: fuck it, I'm not gonna mess with this. Yeah, I

484
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: mean I don't. That was before I was involved, honestly,

485
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: and I wasn't advising anybody if I would say that

486
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 1: was probably a family decision, knowing what I do of

487
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: this family. Now do you advise that personally? Like if

488
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: you have are given the power to ask, if they

489
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: asked me, I would give him what I think. And

490
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: every scenario is different. I mean I was asked that

491
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: by I think three kids in our draft class. Um,

492
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: the only one that I felt like shouldn't you know,

493
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: shouldn't play was was Bradley just his unique circumstances and

494
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 1: where I felt like he was, you know, had an

495
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: opportunity to go with what I knew about him and

496
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 1: what the NFL people were saying about him and where

497
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: he was at. So every decision and every plan for

498
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 1: every unique client or recruit is very very different, as

499
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 1: you know, based on where they're at and what their

500
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: goals are. So, because I'm a big believer, a guy

501
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: like him has nothing to prove. But some guys, if

502
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 1: you're a third round er, you go to a ball

503
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: game and you're a wide receiver and you have twelve catches,

504
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, against a second round defensive back, you can

505
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 1: you can make yourself a lot of money in that game.

506
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: You can. And it's but look, as you not a

507
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: lot but I mean, you can help, you can help

508
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 1: your stock. You can, but at the end of the day,

509
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: and if you're not showing that on film the previous

510
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 1: four games, you're probably in trouble anyway, so you know,

511
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: and so it's like I would you, But my job,

512
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: the lawyer and me and the agent and me is

513
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: always to protect the downside. Everybody wants to talk about

514
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 1: the upside of oh my god, you're gonna make ton

515
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: of money in this game. Well you can also tear

516
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: your achilles or at l and now you go to zero.

517
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,959
Speaker 1: You're a third round pick, you're a top picks. You know,

518
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys, I mean, that's multimillions of

519
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: dollars a couple of which you're guaranteed. That's life changing money.

520
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: And you're gonna go out there again, and you know,

521
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 1: you tep and playing a you know, a bowl game.

522
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna call it meaningless because there's always stuff

523
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: at stakes, but you know, there's a lot more downside there,

524
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: and there's upside to go catch twelve balls, because if

525
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: you're a third round pick, you've caught more than twelve balls.

526
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: And what else you're really showing, you know, in that

527
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: game so I see both, but at the same time,

528
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: for a lot of young minute comes down to the

529
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: commitment they made um to to that you know, their

530
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: program and their teammates and the culmination of the season.

531
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: And I get that, you know what I mean, Like

532
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 1: Johnny had won the Heisman Trophy, like he's you know,

533
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: he's representing the Heisman trust his players at A and N.

534
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: They weren't playing for a national championship. They're playing Duke.

535
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: But it was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna finish this up.

536
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: And I totally get that too. And I know, talking

537
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: to Bradley after his decision was made, that was really

538
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: really hard on him because he came in with those guys,

539
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: He came back his senior year with those guys, and

540
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: even though they weren't competing for an ATC championship or

541
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: national championship, you know, that was the last time to

542
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: put on a uniform with his boys and uh and

543
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: that's really special and important. But at some point you

544
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: gotta look at the financial decision at stake two and

545
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: way all the pros and cons and the upside in

546
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: the downside, like every decision young men should be making.

547
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: The MMQB did an article on the draft process and

548
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: I think Draft Night with Bradley, and one word you

549
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: used in there a lot was floor. You may like

550
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: you just talking about managing the downtime, managing the floor,

551
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: knowing the floor, knowing what the floor would could be.

552
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: Obviously his floor. In that article you talked about like

553
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: the forty niners, I think at nine were by far

554
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: the lowest and there was almost no chance he was

555
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: ever going to get there. But it was somewhat of

556
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: a surprise he went to five. You know, some people thought,

557
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: are they really gonna take a running back at two?

558
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: They're gonna take Bradley Chub how much effort? And I

559
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: don't think people quite realize this that they are listening.

560
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: Do you spend even with a guy like Bradley calling

561
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: the Browns calling the Giants? Hell, I can't even I

562
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: guess the Jets were taking through you knew they were

563
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: taking a quarterback, but just calling teams in the top

564
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: of the Tampa Bay John Lynch just talking to them

565
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: and getting information for the last mone promotion. I mean, honestly,

566
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: the last month isn't as crazy because a lot of

567
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: the guys are started the combine then started the combine

568
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: it starts. Yeah, I think for me, the tea leads,

569
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: it's always leading between the tea leaves. So you know,

570
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: we did over three hundred million in free agency, so

571
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: I kill all these draft picks. Like the biggest indicator,

572
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: especially in that first round, is gonna be in terms

573
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: of what which way they may be leading. Somebody is

574
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: a good player, Jay Klon Barkley is a great player

575
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: at two right, Like are they gonna go running back

576
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: or d n and the whole arguments their position or

577
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: the Brown is gonna go corner or there. You know,

578
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: they gotta guard Antonio Brown and they j Green in

579
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: that division. But you could argue pass rush helps soft corners.

580
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: So it's like in terms of position specific origin between

581
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: the same guys the different you know, the same positions,

582
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: different guys. You know what those tea leads. I think

583
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: you can tell a lot in free agency what a

584
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: team will do. I mean, I think you look at

585
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: the Browns, like I know they like say Kwon Barkley,

586
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: you know, and they had the first day and the

587
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: fourth pick and determining on win or if they're gonna

588
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: take Cam. Well, you look at they just gave Carlos

589
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: Hide a bag of months. They were a month in

590
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: March negotiating a new deal with UH With Duke, you

591
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: don't go get Partose HIGs six million a year and

592
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: talk about giving Johnson five and a half a year

593
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: if you're then gonna go draft takemaw Barkley with the

594
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: first pick, and maybe they take him if he's there

595
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: at four. But there's a lot of between the lines,

596
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: reading and tea leads that I think a lot of

597
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: people overestimate because the draft is the draft, and they go,

598
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: oh my god, you know they got two picks, sake,

599
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: law Barkley is the best player, for example, in their case.

600
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: And I think all of that starts was we met

601
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: with every single team in free agency at the NFL combine. Um.

602
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: Like I said, we did over three hundred million deals,

603
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: and you can tell in those problems, Okay, this team's

604
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: really targeting corners. And then when they don't get their corners,

605
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: say the Browns or the corner that the three corners

606
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: we knew they want to do the free agency and

607
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: also as they were making for some of our clients

608
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: and many others, you can see, okay, that was a

609
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: huge priority for them. They really might address that with

610
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: these first four picks, right, And so it's just a

611
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: lot going on, so hundreds and hundreds of hours to

612
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: it's your questions, but it's not so much to me

613
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: just calling those relationships to go, what are you gonna do?

614
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: As the time people see that, they're gonna bullshit right

615
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: and say, well, he's looking good. So um, you know

616
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: there's some they're like, look if he's still there when

617
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: we pick up X, we're sprinting to the podium and

618
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: like popping campaign on ourselves. And we had two or

619
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: three of those teams, so we knew who those were

620
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: in terms of floors. Um. But at the top, the

621
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: drafts are really funny animal. And you know, for me

622
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: it's about having my client very prepared and having his

623
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: family prepared and um and I know Bradley was, and

624
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: he couldn't be happier about where we ended up for

625
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons. When you talk about you know,

626
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: they'll bullshit you, especially with the draft eventually it's gonna

627
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: play out. But in free agency, with how much money's online,

628
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you had a case Teamum, a quarterback. I

629
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: mean not often starting quarterbacks hit the open market. You

630
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: get into this. You know, he was maybe not the

631
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: first guy because of Kirk Cousins the Domino who kind

632
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: of obviously replaced him in Minnesota. But the amount of

633
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: how hard is it for you to kind of not

634
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: necessarily play general managers use leverage, know what the number

635
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: is gonna be. I mean this process Case, that's a

636
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: pretty big client when you factor in at quarterback money. Yeah,

637
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: he's eighteen plus a year for a guy who's never

638
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: really gone to do a season being the starter. Um,

639
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: and nobody you've been You might have been the longest

640
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: believer beside his parents because I've following you on Twitter.

641
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 1: You've been pumping up Case King for years. You can

642
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: see it in college, like and I nobody wants to

643
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: go spread you know, spread concent this and that we

644
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: knew there's a very good chance he would go undrafted.

645
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: Chase Daniels, another one of our guys, finished one of

646
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: the Heisman through the ball all over six ft whatever.

647
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: Like Case is a Chase also is a baller. Like

648
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: there's no question in my mind, when Chase gets in

649
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: he can do what Case did last year when given

650
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: the real opportunity, which it's an eleven on eleven sport. Man.

651
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: It takes a team, especially with that position. You gotta

652
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: have weapons, you gotta have perfections. Um And so Man,

653
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: I believe I've been believing in case Keenum for shoot

654
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: going on eight nine years since I saw him this

655
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 1: sophomore year. You know, you have age and had some

656
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: coaches they're like, this guy is the ultimate leader you

657
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: have anybody who ever played with the guy, he's just special.

658
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: So from there on, it's it's, you know, a fight

659
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: every day to get him that opportunity, Um that he got.

660
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: So when he did what he did and led them

661
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: in the NFC Championship game and played as well as

662
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: he did, Um, we knew this was his opportunity. And

663
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: you know, along with my partners UM as well, who

664
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: play a huge part and everything we do, it was

665
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: leverages everything. Like you said, we had options for kse Um.

666
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: We vetted him thoroughly and um and I think at

667
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: the end of the day, he ended up in a

668
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: really good situation with with a really good contract as well.

669
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: When you talk about a quarterback and a free agent contract,

670
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: what's the first thing you think of, beside the football side,

671
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: the fit and all that stuff, is it guaranteed money.

672
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: Is it average per year? Is it? You know, the

673
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: signing bonus? What's the first number? When I say, Eric Burkhardt,

674
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: you're signing Case gen him to a contract. What's the

675
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: first part of the contract. Your mind goes to long

676
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: term stability, ability to win. If you do that and

677
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: you have that, everything else will be So obviously the

678
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: agent of me wants as much money as possible. Guaranteed

679
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: money a PI is a big deal, but it's really

680
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: about the opportunity and I think that's what he found

681
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: in Denver. And you know, the the the ability to

682
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: be the guy you know and have that leadership and

683
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: take over that locker room, I think, which is what

684
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: was so appealing about the Denver situation. Um, the stability

685
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: there was with John Elway. They want a Super Bowl

686
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: what three years ago? The defense, um, you know, some

687
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: of the weapons they have, and they look at his receivers.

688
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful place to live. To answer your question, yes,

689
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: quarterbacks are different, but every player is very subjective and

690
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: their free agency or their draft is very, very very different.

691
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: So you know, Case is married, but he doesn't have children.

692
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: So for some guys that maybe just city stay tasted.

693
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: Some guys just want the most money possible. Um. Sometimes

694
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: the wives are making the decision. Sometimes it's all about

695
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: the kids. We've got a free agent the last couple

696
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: of years on one year deals you very well, being

697
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: very high demand. He's got a special needs sun and

698
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: so the ability to the hospitals close by for what

699
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: he's going through is a major factor in where he

700
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: chose to go and leaving money on the table, uh

701
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: before that. So um, every guy is very different. Obviously.

702
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: If I had the answer one, it's the guaranteed money,

703
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: because that's the only thing that's gonna give you stability

704
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: in this league, no matter how good your receivers are,

705
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: your oline, or how much they're saying they believe in you.

706
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: Day one of free agency. Money talks um, But the

707
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: contract kind of comes I would say second, in terms

708
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: of how you structure that contract, um, and what that

709
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,479
Speaker 1: contract looks like. Longer term, shorter term. Usually give them

710
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: more years. You're gonna get more guaranteed money, but maybe

711
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: not the average for years. You know, but maybe you

712
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: want to hit the market depending on where the market's going.

713
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: When the CBA is of I mean, there's so many

714
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: factors that go into everybody's deal, um and every deal

715
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: is very, very different. But at the end of the day,

716
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: it comes out of how much leverage you have UM

717
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: to get them the most security you possibly. Teams are

718
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: their teams. I don't expect you to name them, but

719
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: they are easier to deal with than others for them,

720
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: you know, like when you when you look at a guy,

721
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: you get a phone call, you're like, oh my god,

722
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a long day. Yeah, I mean

723
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: yes and no. Look, if you have a great player,

724
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: you're gonna have options. But it's like I would say,

725
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: easier to be Most players in the NFL are not

726
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: quote unquote great, you know, right, Most players in the

727
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: NFL are all in that umbrella that at any moment

728
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: they can be replaced because most guys don't make that

729
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: much guaranteed money. That's true, and and they are no

730
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: matter what. Unfortunately, players are expendable. It's the way the

731
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: whole system and business is set up. And so unless

732
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: you have one of those truly truly elite players, UM

733
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: and the market is still gonna dictate what that looks like.

734
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: I could have an elite player going to free agency,

735
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: but if there's ten other amazing d ns on the market.

736
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: That's going to delude the market a little bit and

737
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: give me less options or less leverage with the team

738
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: dealing with to get a long term deal. So all

739
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: of it. But the fact is with the ends, they

740
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: don't get to the market, so that different quarterbacks don't

741
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: get to the market. So in case his favor, you know,

742
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: you look at it, and but then the year he does,

743
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 1: Kirk Cousins does, or whatever the case may be, right,

744
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: and so it's always the supply and demand issue like

745
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: every other business. Um, did you deal with did you

746
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: deal with Elway or do you deal more with it?

747
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: Once he once you talked to him about the initial

748
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: he wants the quarterback? Then do you deal with the

749
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: contract negotiator New England. We all think Belichick could negotiate

750
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: the contract, could set up the special teams, could you know,

751
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: cut the grass? Uh? And then with the forty Niners,

752
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: John Lynch is pretty open about parag negotiates the contract.

753
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: Howe Roseman kind of a hybrid does a little bit

754
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: of both. Uh. Every team is different, and you clearly

755
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: have to have a good relationship with everyone in the organization,

756
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: but you end up dealing when it comes down to

757
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: doing that contract with the contract guy whoever that may

758
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: be in the organization right at the end of the day,

759
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: and then negotiation is going on. It's the end, right.

760
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: So with a quarterback, you're dealing with everybody you know

761
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: at the top is typically on every scenaric you know, call,

762
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, email, communication, correspondence. But ultimately the contract guy

763
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 1: is the one you're passing back and forth your red

764
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: line and you're going back and forth and sometimes you

765
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: know he's got to go back to the to the

766
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: man in charge, so to speak, and get authority, and

767
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: he plays good cop bad top on that most of

768
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 1: the time, right, And so you hit it on the head.

769
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: Every scenario is very different. Um, every team does it

770
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: a little bit differently, and you kind of as an agent,

771
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: you gotta know what team you're dealing with and who

772
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: you're dealing with to get the best you know result.

773
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: For your comment, did you like to deal with Alway

774
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: on the golf course? I wish I did. I did not.

775
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: I did not. He probably plays more golf than if

776
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: you every other general manager combined. You know, he's got

777
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: a good gig. You know, he's John Elway, the great

778
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: gig and he's John Elway. He's great. I'm look, I'm

779
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: the biggest Bronco fan walking now. So if I can

780
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: get out on the links with him this year, now

781
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: that I got got you know, Keenom's running the offense

782
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: and and Bradley Chubb there they used to fit tick

783
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: on a defense. Um, you know, I'll probably be in

784
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: a few Broncos games this year, so lunch is definitely

785
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: on meeting. If I fit some cuff ball with him,

786
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: that's for sure. So when will you take your next

787
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: college meeting? I guess you know the summers upon us

788
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: were June nine. Is that what you're gonna start attacking

789
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: for the next Um? No, I had. I had two

790
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: falls with college recruits and or their families this morning already.

791
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: And uh, I had a meeting last week as well.

792
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: So that's that's year round, so that that doesn't stop

793
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: going in the next year. Get any names or you

794
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: can't reveal that I'm gonna keep that one. Well, Eric,

795
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: thanks a lot. I got people above me banging on

796
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: my roof, uh taking off the roof, but uh, I

797
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: appreciate you jumping on with me today. And sounds like

798
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 1: business is pretty good for Burke Hurt Hey man, same

799
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: with you. Appreciate you having me. Let's keep it rolling.

800
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: I love what you're doing out there, and let me

801
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: know if I can ever help you guys out. Thanks Bro,

802
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: have a good one, all right, John, take care of it. Well.

803
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: I'm glad I got Eric on the horn. Uh. You know,

804
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 1: I don't think you often hear agents now Drew Rosenhouse.

805
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: She stuck a lot to the media. He doesn't anymore.

806
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: So that was pretty cool about the Johnny saga and

807
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: just kind of how you know your your recruit players.

808
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: Just I don't know if you're gonna hear that anywhere else.

809
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 1: That's uh, that's why we have three and out podcasts

810
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: and bring you a different perspective. But time for my

811
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: favorite time of the week, the Middlecoff mail bag. I

812
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: got a bunch of questions, and what I'm gonna do,

813
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: Like always, you go to iTunes, you go to uh

814
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: subscribe rate and in the review section and leave a question.

815
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: I probably got like eight or nine. I'm only gonna

816
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: answer a couple and I'll just kind of keep spreading

817
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: out throughout the summer. We we we got a long

818
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: summer here. Uh, I'm sitting here in my in my

819
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: office watching the World Cup. Uh, it's it's slow times,

820
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: so we'll make this go. I'm still efforting a bunch

821
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,439
Speaker 1: of different guests, and well, we'll try to keep it loose.

822
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: But let's start with my first mail bag question from

823
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: a mail bag question, Uh, do you view guys who

824
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: have a lot to lose from a money perspective? Skipping

825
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: voluntary off O T S? Or how do you view

826
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: the guys? And then a bonus question about his alma mater,

827
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: Penn State. After losing Uh, say Kwan DeShawn Hamilton's and Gasecky,

828
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: what is the best and worst case for Penn State.

829
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: Let's start with the first question about the NFL. I

830
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: I think every player is different. H for Aaron Donald

831
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: and Khalil Mac they have way too much on the

832
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: line that they had to sit out O T S.

833
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: Julio like like, I'm sorry, Julio, I just don't think

834
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Falcons are gonna pay you. They've already paid

835
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: you multiple times for Odell. I I do understand him

836
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: showing up. I mean, his general manager is sick. He

837
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: has a brand new coach. He's trying to show the

838
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: owners that he's all in, also that he's healthy. I mean,

839
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: last year he shattered his ankle, so I get why

840
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: of all the group of guys he showed up. I

841
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: talked about it last week, David Johnson. I don't know

842
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: if much is gonna come of it. Uh, he broke

843
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: his wrist last year and missed the entire season. He's

844
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: running back, but every player is different. Uh. You know,

845
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: I think part of the reason that New England canceled practice,

846
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: I think it was last week and just Belichick let

847
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 1: everyone go home early is Tom Brady wasn't there. Well,

848
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: you the majority every camp unless the quarterback is hurt,

849
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: the starting quarterback is there for voluntary and mandatory. So

850
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: Belichick obviously isn't going to cancel all the you know,

851
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: voluntary work for the previous month. And Brady I think,

852
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: and Gronk did show up the week before. But if

853
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: Tom Brady is not at camp, like, I don't know

854
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: how much you're really getting out of practice. Their quarterbacks

855
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: are terrible. Uh if Brian, if Tom Brady goes down,

856
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: the Patriots are screwed. So I think I know Colin

857
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: mentioned that Belichick was kind of over it and just

858
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: kind of losing his touch. To me, it had more

859
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: to do with just Brady's not there. What are we

860
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: gonna accomplish? Uh, we can't run an offense. Our defense

861
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: is not getting real looks. So you know, I don't

862
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: really know why he set out. Maybe he's just old. Uh,

863
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: I mean he is old, But that was to me

864
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: the biggest reason there. And then about Penn State, I

865
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: think James Franklin is really good, but I think losing

866
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: Sa Kwan is gonna be really big. Now if the McSorley,

867
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: the quarterback can have a Heisman type season, which I

868
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: don't think is out of the realm of possibility. I

869
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 1: don't know if he's he's not as talented as Baker,

870
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: but in college he's definitely good enough to win them

871
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: a lot of games. You know, the conference is really hard.

872
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: I think Michigan is gonna be a lot better. Obviously,

873
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: Ohio State is always absolutely loaded. You know, I was

874
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: always tough. It's a Wisconsin is really good. It's a

875
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: very very solid. You could argue it's been the last

876
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: couple of years probably the most consistent football conference. I

877
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: don't count the ball games. I really don't give a

878
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: ship whether you win or lose a bowl game beside

879
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: the playoffs, because none of the bowl games really matter.

880
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: Everyone has, you know, a different amount at stake. To me,

881
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: the best cases there somehow they make it the big

882
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 1: in championship. In the worst case, Uh, they can't replace

883
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: Sae Kwon Barkley and just kind of his shadow, and

884
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: you know they go eight and four. But let's just

885
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: Jane Franklin is good enough that even if in a

886
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: quote unquote down year now, they have recruited very well

887
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: the last couple of years that eight and you can

888
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: have a good season in the Big ten and be

889
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: eight and four, lose a couple of tight games. Uh,

890
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: it's just it's hard god, football stuff. Jake asked, why

891
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: are NFL contracts so perplexed verse NBA contracts, not just

892
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: the guarantees, but where they train the offseason, deferring money.

893
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: I think it all has to do with the guarantees.

894
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: But I do think this, and I wrote about it

895
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: last week on The Athletic. I don't think a lot

896
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: of people understand when you get a signing bonus or

897
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: true guaranteed money, that money you either have. Let like

898
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: Matt Ryan got a hundred million dollars in true guarantee.

899
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: The Atlanta Falcons have two options. They can pay that

900
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: money within a year span. So they have one year

901
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: until marks thirty one, two thousand nineteen to give him

902
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars. Now, obviously the way it's set

903
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: up on the books is different, but they have to

904
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: get him the money within uh basically a calendar year,

905
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: or at the time of signing. They have to put

906
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 1: all that hundred million dollars in an escrow account. That's,

907
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: you know, something that was collectively bargained a long time

908
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: ago with the NFL. Like, part of the reason NFL

909
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: contracts are complicated with guaranteed money is because you have

910
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: to have it all up front. It's why, you know,

911
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: I said, I've been saying on Twitter for a while,

912
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: I could see the Raiders are kind of been a

913
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: tough spot some of these cash poor teams. If you

914
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of cash on hand, signing enormous

915
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: signing bonuses are difficult. Like Derek Carr, for example, his

916
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: true guarantee was forty million. The Raiders had to have

917
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: that forty million in an escrow account when he signed

918
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: that deal, or they had a year to get him

919
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: the forty million dollars. It's kind of a complicated structure

920
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: that I don't think a lot of people know about.

921
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: And then the event d million dollars of injury quote

922
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: unquote guarantees they have two years to pay it, so

923
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: basically have two years to pay seventy million. I think

924
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: Jimmy Garoppolo's number it was like forty one and seventy four,

925
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: So they had the year they had or maybe it

926
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 1: was forty four. They had to have forty plus million

927
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: dollars on hand, and then they have basically two years

928
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: to pay the seventy four. Where if I signed an

929
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: NBA player like uh, let's say Steph Curry when he

930
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: signed his Super Max deal five years, two hundred and

931
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: five million dollars, give or take a million, it's a

932
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: lot of money. You pay that over five years. You know,

933
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: I give him twenty five this year, I give him

934
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: thirty two next year. Same with baseball, so all the

935
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: money is guaranteed, but as a business, I don't have

936
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: to have all the money on hand, so it is

937
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: kind of complicated. I wonder if that's something I think

938
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: the next c b A negotiations with the players in

939
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: the NFL is going to be one of the most

940
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: fascinating negotiations we've seen a long time, because they're gonna

941
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: be a lot of applications and clearly there's a lot

942
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: of money at stake. Now, I would bet on the owners.

943
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: They are some of the best businessmen, not just in sports,

944
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: but in America, in American history. So I like their chances.

945
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: But I do think it's gonna be really complicated, and

946
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: that's something that if the players are smart, you have

947
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: to defer some of this money. Like some of these teams,

948
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: you're better off if I can give you a hundred

949
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars guaranteed, but I can pay you over

950
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: five years, it makes a little more sense than if

951
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: I pay you up eighty million dollars guaranteed, but I

952
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: have to have it within twelve months. It just becomes

953
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 1: very difficult. So I think there is language in the

954
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: collective Bargaining Agreement that just makes these contracts tough, and

955
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: most people don't understand. I don't fully understand it, just

956
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: talking with contract people I know in the league. Uh,

957
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: it's it's not easy. Last question from Dane m Value question,

958
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: When teams get to work in their training camps, which

959
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: was the day June we're over, probably a month away

960
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 1: most teams, don't, you know veterans. Probably the earliest would

961
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 1: be right around a month from today. Uh. Usually by

962
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: of July most camps have started. Do they assign some

963
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: sort of skill productivity grade to their players? Is there

964
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: some sort of calculation teams utilize using a productivity grade

965
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: along with the player salary determined who to keep and

966
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: who to cut. So that's a hell of a fucking question.

967
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: I really think it's as simple as this that during

968
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: training camp. I know, at least with Andy Reid for example,

969
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 1: and I did this with Pat Hill at Fresno State,

970
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: same concept, and most teams do this. You meet every

971
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: night as a staff in training camp, so after practices

972
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: at night, like eight or nine o'clock at night, and

973
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: you go position by position, who's doing well, who's not

974
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: doing well? And all that stuff is great. You know,

975
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: you kind of ebb and flow. This guy's practicing well,

976
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: this guy's not practicing well. And you're obviously keeping statistics

977
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: on every drop pass, every pressure, you know, every tackle,

978
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: like everything basically now with statistics is being account of

979
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 1: foreign practice. The problem for that is It's only weighted

980
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: so heavily because the preseason games for guys on the

981
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: bubble really matter. So you can love a guy in practice,

982
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: and I've seen it when I worked in the league,

983
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: and I've seen it after the league, like just as

984
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: a media guy, like, damn, this guy's balling in practice.

985
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: But until like preseason games happened, an undrafted free agent

986
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: that balls in practice may suck in the game, or

987
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: vice versa. A guy that's just okay in practice. You know,

988
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: a wide receiver that can't really catch in practice, goes

989
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: in a couple of preseason games and has three touchdowns.

990
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: I was at I vividly remember this, and my memory

991
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: is not great. Is I went my first year in

992
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: the NFL. I drove with Lewis Riddick, who was our

993
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: pro director at the time, in Philadelphia, and I watched

994
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: Victor Cruz, who was an undrafted free agent from U

995
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: mass It was the Giants first the Jets. I think

996
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: it was the first preseason game of the year, or

997
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: it was preseason with like basically preseason week one, so

998
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: that their first each of their first game. He had

999
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: three touchdowns. No one really even knew who this guy was,

1000
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: and you know, I followed the Giants because they were

1001
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: in our division really closely in training camp, all the

1002
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: news and notes, and it's not like they were, you know,

1003
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: standing on the table and he was dominating in practice.

1004
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: But once he had that game, everyone in the press box,

1005
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: all the scouts like he's making the team. So to me,

1006
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: there's values like you can overvalue practice, but when the

1007
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: preseason game comes for guys on the bubble, same with

1008
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: older players, like older vets that may make a lot

1009
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: of money because if I keep a veteran player that's

1010
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: a vested veteran, I think that's you know, over four

1011
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: years in the league. Their contract, if he's on the

1012
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 1: week one roster is guaranteed for the season. It's why

1013
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: you see some VET you know, like salary cap casualties,

1014
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: guys that you know, if my undrafted free agent is

1015
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 1: just as good as the VET, I'll keep the undrafted

1016
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: free agent because one he's cheaper and two I can

1017
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: cut him any time and not guarantee to PAM. So

1018
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: there is no like this is a hard part about

1019
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: football where the analytics come in. For like baseball, it's

1020
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: pretty black and white. Football, there are so many variables

1021
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: and it's like, how do you value a practice, you know,

1022
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: in August one, compared to the third preseason game. Now,

1023
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: obviously there is also an element of some of your veterans,

1024
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: you're just gonna like a guy in his fourth, fifth,

1025
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: sixth year that you've drafted, you're just gonna write or

1026
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: die with whether he struggles, and that's kind of set

1027
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: in stone. Like the majority of NFL rosters, you know,

1028
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: give or take, you know, five ten people at MAX

1029
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: are pretty set going into training camp. There's just your

1030
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: few swing spots, and until you play the preseason games,

1031
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: it's hard to gauge because guys, and this is the

1032
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: one thing I learned at training camp at both college

1033
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: and the pro level, it's it's different in the pros

1034
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: because you play preseason games. Like in college, you don't.

1035
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: You just scrimmage yourself until you play that Week one game.

1036
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: So there's like, God, I think this guy is really good,

1037
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: or I think this freshman is really good, or I

1038
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: think the sophomore is taken a big step. But until

1039
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: I line up if I'm usc against Alabama week one

1040
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 1: or if I'm Florida against Michigan week one, I don't

1041
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 1: truly know we're in the NFL. I get a pretty

1042
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: good gauge, like some undrafted free agent that's with the

1043
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: threes come preseason week one, if he keeps balling out

1044
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: in practice, then the games maybe by week preseason three,

1045
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: I'm repping him, mixing him in with the ones. So

1046
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: if I'm, you know, hypothetically the Tennessee Titans, you know,

1047
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: I'm playing the Houston Texans, I guess they might not play.

1048
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: But like the Arizona Cardinals in preseason week three, and

1049
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: my undrafted free agent, let's say is a wide receiver

1050
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: makes a couple of plays on Patrick Peterson, I know

1051
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: he's making the team. So it's just it's an in

1052
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: exact science. It's hard. I think I would imagine with

1053
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 1: the influx of analytics and just that guys in front offices,

1054
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: they've attempted to make, you know, formulas for this, but

1055
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: I don't and listen, I'm no gus here. I don't

1056
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: know if it's even possible to create a formula that

1057
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: would be black and white. Now, maybe there would be

1058
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: things to help you, but the weight of preseason games

1059
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: and just just to feel when you watch a guy

1060
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: to kind of know like this guy's got something. And

1061
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Speaker 1: I think as fans, everyone that's gonna watch, you know,

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00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: the games during August, you kind of know when you

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00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: see a dude, you know, show out. And there's also

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00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: a big difference in this productivity in the preseason, like

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00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter doesn't mean much, you know, just

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00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: because you rush for a hundred yards, Well, if you

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00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 1: rush for a hundred yards and the fourth quarter against

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Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of guys that are not going

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00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: to be playing ever in the NFL, you don't put

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00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: much weight to it. So it's it's really difficult. That's

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Speaker 1: a that's a fantastic question. Thanks for listening to everyone.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back next week. Uh, you know, talking more

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00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: football talking. Keep your questions coming iTunes, subscribe rate and

1074
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: then the review section. Leave your question and I'll get

1075
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: to him right here on three and out. Brought to

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Speaker 1: you by the Colin Coward Podcast Network M