1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: I'm at the tail end of a ten day fellowship 3 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: at Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan. If you don't know 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: about Hillsdale, it's a small Christian college, very highly regarded. 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: It's famous in the conservative world. But until you're here, 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: I don't think it's exactly clear why. I taught a 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: persuasive writing class to journalism students, and they were just 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: so bright and wise. Everyone dresses up for school, no pajamas. 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: I don't even think I saw genes now that I 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: think about it. They look you in the eye when 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: they talk to you, and I've realized that I need 12 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: to work on my handshake. But what was really impressive 13 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: is that so many of them have the complete picture 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: in their heads of how they want their lives to go. 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm not naive. Not everything works out 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: the way you imagine it will in college. But I 17 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: have to say that their imagination far exceeds where my 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: imagination was in college. I was one step at a time, 19 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: just thinking about my first job out of college. You know, 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: I'll see where it goes, see where life takes me. 21 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: And I don't see that in them at all. I 22 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: see them as very focused on the future. One girl 23 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: asked me for career advice. She was choosing between two 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: job offers. I asked her, where do you see yourself 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: in fifteen years, you know, dream big anything eight pm 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: slot on cable news, whatever a journalism student might possibly 27 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: want the biggest dream. And she said, in fifteen years, 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: I want to be with my family. She's going place 29 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 1: as this girl obviously, very obviously, but in the long 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: term she's picturing being with her kids. Now that doesn't 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: mean she's going to give up working if she doesn't 32 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: want to, but she's already maneuvering her life to achieve 33 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: that end result. I mean, I was very impressed. I 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: talked to my kids a lot about how I want 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: them to get married and have children really above all, 36 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: I mean, certainly above career, and I think it's the 37 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: most important part of a successful life. But now I'm 38 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: realizing it has to be more than just telling them. 39 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: It's showing them how to plan for that, and I 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: definitely plan to implement that in my own life. I'm 41 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: leaving Hillsdale thinking about how college kids don't have to 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: be dour and full of anxiety. I saw such joyful 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: kids here, and they're super normal. Before anyone thinks otherwise. 44 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: They do all the same things college kids do, you know, mostly, 45 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: but they're interesting and interested, and there's really no reason 46 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: that college kids elsewhere can't be the same. We're big 47 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: on say the words here on the Carol Marcowitz Show. 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: Don't assume kids will just know. Tell them. The Hillsdale 49 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: kids have obviously heard the words, and you can tell 50 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: it's made all the difference. Coming up next, an interview 51 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: with Frank Fleming. Join us after the break. Welcome back 52 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today 53 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: is Frank Fleming. He's a scripted creator for Daily Wire 54 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: and the bent Key Kids shows. 55 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 2: Hi Frank, Hi, thanks so much for having me on. 56 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: It's so nice to have you. I feel like I've 57 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: known you a really long time on the Internet, and 58 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: this is the first time I think we've ever seen 59 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: each other face. 60 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my wife says, Hi, By the way. 61 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: I love your life. So actually that's a great place 62 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: to start. I think you and your wife met on 63 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: the early Internet, Is that right? 64 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was back when I was doing my blog, Imo. 65 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: Can you tell us the story. 66 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that one's quite a story. I like that. It 67 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: was one of those hair brained schemes that actually worked out. 68 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: At the time, it was making some money selling T 69 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: shirts through website. Thought oh, nice had like a model 70 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: like on the shirts, and so I had a contest 71 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: for someone my readers to be the T shirt model, 72 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 2: hoping maybe I had an attractive person who liked all 73 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: of the show. And then uh, I went with a 74 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: bunch of other judges and they have people sending photos 75 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: and someone was the obvious winner to me. Uh, but 76 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 2: she actually only won by one point, and that's uh. 77 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: We ended up marrying a while. We end up dating 78 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: soon after our first date. Actually invited me to go 79 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: just that easy, you know, invited me to go hike 80 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: the Grand Canyon with her, and then we, uh we 81 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 2: got dating and eventually married and now have four kids. 82 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: So that's yeah, that's one of those. 83 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: Like, you know, having contest on your blog and marry 84 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: the winner. It's yeah, you know, it's funny because there's 85 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: this like meme that single people have. It's like, do 86 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: married people feel like they caught the last chopper out 87 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: of nom Have you seen that. 88 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it does seem pretty crazy these days. But 89 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 2: I guess I didn't do a lot of regular type dating, 90 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: but that story. 91 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: Seems very last chopper out of nom Like, I don't know, 92 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: I don't know that that's like possible anymore, do you. 93 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, it was different, different world, different time with 94 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 2: the way blogs where those feel like kind of faded 95 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: now and you got the uh, you know, substacks and 96 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: Twitter or. 97 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: X well, I think all the blogs, you know, I 98 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: feel like all the really good bloggers got kind of 99 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: co opted into the mainstream media that we so you know, 100 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: pretended to hate. But everybody kind of got hired, right, 101 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: Isn't that that was sort of the end of it, 102 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: that the big media outlets picked up all the bloggers 103 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: that they liked, and that was that. 104 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a very you know, uh democratization of media. 105 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: I mean a lot, you know. I'm so and I 106 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 2: never would have tried to get in the media normally, 107 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: but we I was like, oh, okay, I can just 108 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 2: write online and maybe pick up an audience, you know. 109 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: I'm I'm also I think a example, you know, why 110 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: a lot of conservatives don't get into the media because, 111 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: you know, I was going to do a responsible job 112 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: work as a computer programmer. It's just oh. But since 113 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: I was able to do this on the side, I 114 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: was able to eventually, you know, build up my writing 115 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: skills and resume. Before then, it was a lot harder. 116 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, what would you be doing if you weren't doing this? 117 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'd be a computer programmer. But I 118 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: mean that was my full job just a few years ago. Still, 119 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: I mainly wrote on the side. This is well, it's 120 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: not quite the first time working as a full time writer. 121 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 2: I'd worked with a production company called Emergent Order. That's 122 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: what moved me to Texas. I actually did a lot 123 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: of tech with them. I did some VR video and 124 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: apps and stuff along with writing like web series things 125 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 2: for them that when that didn't work out eventually I 126 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: was with them two years. I was kind of happy 127 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: just get back in a regular tech job. And then 128 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: uh and and I was kind of happy to do 129 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: that right on the side because then I don't have 130 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: to worry about if my writing's that good or if 131 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: get an audience. If it gets an audience, great, if not, 132 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: I'm not depending on it for like, you know, to 133 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: feed my family or anything. Right, and but eventually end 134 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: up with this opportunity with the Daily Wire to work 135 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: on television shows with friends of mine, and so it's like, well, 136 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: I couldn't really pass that, right, Yeah, so they hold 137 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: me back in. 138 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: When I asked people the question like what would you 139 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: be doing if it wasn't this, it's always like these 140 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: like crazy answers, you know, like I'd be a baker. 141 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: I like to say that I'd be a DJ. I 142 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: really enjoy you know, playing music for people. But you're like, no, 143 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: I'd go back to being a computer programmer. 144 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: It was so crazy because I thought I achieved my balance, 145 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: especially after I left the Babylon BEMS. Was like, Okay, 146 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: I'll do a paid sub stack. I'll write just what 147 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: I like or how big an audience it gets. It's 148 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: like I'll find writing on the side. I'll write some novels. 149 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: People read them. If they don't, doesn't matter, because I 150 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: really liked Actually my job. I had a programming a 151 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: great boss, owner of it, and you really appreciate me. 152 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: I appreciate him, and and it's just like, okay, make 153 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 2: money from that, do writing on the side, and you know, 154 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: support your family, feel happy and so It's kind of 155 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: crazy to me to leave a job I really like, 156 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 2: but it's just, yeah, this was such a unique opportunity 157 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: to to start. You know, I've never I never imagined 158 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: I always would want to written, to write for TV shows. 159 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 2: I just never imagine an opportunity because again, I'm not 160 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: someone who's gonna was gonna fly down to Hollywood go 161 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: all in there, especially now you know, family for kids, 162 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: it's just you have to be a little bit more, 163 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: you know, look before you leave. 164 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: So what is Benkey doing That's different In the children's 165 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: like TV show space, They're. 166 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 2: Just trying to be uh something you can trust. You know, 167 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 2: you don't have to pre screen all these things and 168 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: make sure what kind of stuff they're putting in there. 169 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: I think that's that's really just you know, they what 170 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 2: we would normally call agenda free. Uh so imagine that. 171 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 172 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: Why Yeah, as a parent, I appreciate that because I 173 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: feel like all the new stuff out there, I got 174 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: to look into it and see if there's what sort 175 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: of things are putting into there. And the idea with 176 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: ben Key is, you know, you don't have to worry 177 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: about that. 178 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you've made it? 179 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: That's an interesting question because it's like, uh, I thought 180 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: I made it when I finally you know, reached my 181 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: uh piece with what it was like, oh, I'll be 182 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: a computer program during the day, I'll write if it's okay, 183 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 2: because that's where it's like I've been through a long 184 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 2: journey where it's like, oh, I really want to be 185 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: a novelist or really want to be a columnist. And uh, 186 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: I kind of learned some lessons there because for a 187 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: while I was like writing for the New York Post 188 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: and I felt like, oh, that's made it. But I 189 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: realized as soon as I got there, I was like, well, 190 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: what do I do next? Right? Oh, this is there 191 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: is no end to this, And so I thought I 192 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: achieved my piece. But now I'm off, you know, you know, 193 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: in my in my forties, in a completely different field 194 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: than I thought i'd be in. So I kind of 195 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: have to relearn and seeing where this is going. So 196 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 2: it kind of feels weird to say like I made it. 197 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,599 Speaker 2: Now I'm it's a little too exciting for that. I 198 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: don't know where things are going. 199 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 200 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. So I've known you, 201 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: like we talked about, you know, from the early blog days, 202 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: but I reached out to you to come on the 203 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: show when you tweeted something. I'm going to read your 204 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: tweet that I thought was really interesting and I wanted 205 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: to talk to you about it. So you tweeted about 206 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: capitalism first, and you wrote, capitalism is not the problem. 207 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: You're just one hundred times whinier than your ancestors, despite 208 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: being one hundred times more privileged. And that's also not 209 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: capitalism's it's your spiritual paucity that leaves you in a 210 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: state where you can be handed riches the kings of 211 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: old couldn't dream of, but still be miserable. But then 212 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: your follow up tweet is really why I contacted you, 213 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: and it was many things change, but if you're looking 214 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: to fill the emptiness inside you, the answer hasn't changed 215 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: in thousands of years. 216 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: So what is it? 217 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: What's the answer to be? 218 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 2: It's you know, well, you know, I'm a Christian, I 219 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: have a I feel like that that's where centers all 220 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: my life. And it's just like it feels like a 221 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: lot of you know, what the world is these days 222 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: is trying to figure out, trying to replace what we 223 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: used to have spiritually with something else. And I look 224 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 2: at a lot of like, you know, the values and 225 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: things we have these days, which usually they started as 226 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: religious values, and then they just try to say, oh, 227 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: now they're universal values. You don't have to have any 228 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: basis for we just believe them. But I feel like 229 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 2: that that's just not fulfilling enough for people, and that 230 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: leads them in odd directions. And that's where it's like, 231 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: you know, they make these religious battles to you know, 232 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: you know, capitalism's the devil for some people, and you 233 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 2: know they try to fill these voids with other things. 234 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: But it's just, you know, while the world's changed a 235 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 2: lot in thousands of years, if you're looking to be fulfilled, 236 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 2: I don't feel like, you know, that's changed. You have 237 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 2: to focus on the spiritual. You have to focus on 238 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: what you have. It's like, you know, yeah, it's talk 239 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: about like the capitalism and sort of the ingratitude people have. 240 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: It's like, we have all these things people of course 241 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: thousand years can imagine you know, a little box in 242 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 2: your pocket you can pull up any information in the 243 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 2: world from and it's just I mean, it's just well, 244 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: I mean that would amaze me, you know, when I 245 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 2: was a kid, you know, and it's but you know, 246 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: this does not give us fulfillment. And if you want fulfillment, 247 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: you have to learn to be happy with what you 248 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: have and be amazed and gratitude, you know, have the 249 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: gratitude for what you already have and not be constantly 250 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 2: looking for like you know, what you don't or what 251 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: else you think you need or you're just gonna end 252 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: up like a little hamster and a wheel, uh, just 253 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: kind of thinking you're moving towards something, but you're never 254 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: going to get there because you know, I feel like 255 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: what everybody really is trying to get to is the 256 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: same thing. And that's the you know, the spiritual fulfillment 257 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 2: you know me, it's you know, it's being what God 258 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: intended you be. You know, you have a real person 259 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 2: you're trying to be and it's you know, you got 260 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: to look up or inward and spiritually to find. 261 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: That has having kids changed you in in that way 262 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: or in any way. 263 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: I feel that that's that's a major change to everybody, 264 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: you know. I know we're we're in a world now 265 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 2: where people seem to put less value on kids. I 266 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 2: know there's a lot of like shrinking population. It's it's 267 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: kind of crazy to me because like when we had 268 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: our first kid, it's like, oh, this is so amazing. 269 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: It's like, wonder what we'll get with the next one. 270 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 2: It's and you know, we've had, you know, four kids, 271 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: and our amazing journey are our fourth one he has 272 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: down syndrome, which was, you know, a new thing to 273 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 2: deal with. But it's just you know, it's uh, you know, 274 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: they're just such uh you know, joy and fulfillment, you know, 275 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 2: to all all these all your kids, and it's and 276 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: it but the big change is what I feel is 277 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: a big problem with the society is we're very self centered. 278 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: We're about self fulfillment and things and like kind of 279 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: mentioning that. But I figured the irony of self fulfillment 280 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 2: is you can't be looking on your own needs. You 281 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 2: have to learn how to look out for If you're 282 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: always just trying to get focused on your own wants, 283 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: I feel like that's the easiest past to misery. If 284 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 2: you try to focus on someone else's wants or needs 285 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: that can really help you. And of course children, you 286 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: have to learn to not put yourself at uh you know, 287 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: you know, at the top you have do you have 288 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: other people? You know, it's that's who you're looking to 289 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 2: help out and not just yourself. And I think that's 290 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: that's probably the biggest change of becoming a parent. I 291 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 2: mean it starts when you get married, but when you 292 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 2: have kids, I mean, that's that's a bigger change. It's 293 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: I always liked, uh. I think it's name Jonathan Colton. 294 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 2: He's like a musician had this song called You Ruined Everything, 295 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: which is about his daughter being born. It's about how 296 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: she destroyed his life. I never heard that. Yeah, uh, 297 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: that's better. But it's like and it's like he can. 298 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: I like how he compared becoming apparent to like becoming 299 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: a vampire, where you're just your old self's destroyed and 300 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 2: you're something different and stronger now, And I think that's 301 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: what you have to be. 302 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: It's quite a comparison. So what would you say, is 303 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: our largest like cultural or societal problem or have you 304 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: already got gotten into that? Is it that self centered? Is? 305 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that that's quite a heavy question and 306 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: I think I'll stick to the theme. But I also like 307 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: to think about it. It's the gratitude because we have 308 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: so much in society we didn't have before. But people 309 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: still want to feel like this is the worst of 310 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: times and they're the biggest victims, and no one wants 311 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 2: to like, you know, it's funny all to talk about privilege, 312 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: but no one really wants to recognize, like everybody in 313 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 2: society now is just hugely privileged to like everybody else 314 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: who's existed. Yeah, he's one of my favorite Babylon b 315 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: articles I wrote was one called average person wines more 316 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: today in one week than a person born during the 317 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 2: Black Plague did their entire lives. But it's just like 318 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 2: we don't have perspective we have. We're constantly just finding 319 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: the faults of things and it's just you know that again, 320 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: it's just like if you're looking for happiness, you have 321 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: to you have to recognize what you have and have 322 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: gratitude for all the things you have. And that's you know, 323 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 2: that's that's a fight each day. You know, it's like 324 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: a you know, It's one thing I've come to realize 325 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: is I'm you know, talk about have you made it? 326 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: I think I'm in a special period of my life 327 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: which you know, uh, you know, I have my family, 328 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: I have my four kids, we all go do stuff together. Eventually, 329 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 2: you know, someone get old and move away, and then 330 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 2: you know, this is I you know, it's possibly the 331 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 2: best period of my life right now. And it's just 332 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 2: you know, you have to you know, recognize that each 333 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 2: day and try to embrace that. 334 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's hard to appreciate when you're in it. 335 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: But you know, when I'm away from my kids, I 336 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: immediately like want to get back to them. And when 337 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm with them, obviously they you know, they could be 338 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: difficult or whatever. But it's when you're in these happy times, 339 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: like to know that you're in those happy times and 340 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: to hold on to it is tougher than it sounds. 341 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess what helped is I had you know, 342 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: when those things, it gives you some perspective that I 343 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 2: had a health scare recently where you know, it's really 344 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: found out I had some two and uh, you know 345 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: it was really it didn't know exactly how bad it 346 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 2: was the beginning, and really had to think about, you know, 347 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 2: what if, what if I'm going to die in like 348 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 2: the next year, and and and you know, uh, kind 349 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: of the hardest thing about that is like, you know, 350 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, spiritually, you know, I'd be 351 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 2: ready for such a thing, but it's just what you 352 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: leave behind. Because I had you have four kids, I 353 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 2: think three of them at least would have left them something, 354 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 2: you know, in memory. You know, you know how I was, 355 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 2: But my youngest with down syndrome was like, I don't 356 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 2: think he'd remember anything, and the only thing I could 357 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: do for him was to stick around. And so uh, 358 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: you know, just just knowing, uh now that you know, 359 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 2: it's like, I think we're through the woods on that 360 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 2: doesn't look like have any you know, major health problems 361 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 2: anytime soon. So it's really uh come to appreciate just 362 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: you know, uh, just life and knowing you got you know, 363 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 2: uh be able to look ahead and not you know, 364 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: I'm glad to hear that, being so uncertain whether you 365 00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 2: actually be around. 366 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I think all of your kids are adorable. 367 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: But whenever I see your youngest, like, I smile. He 368 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: is just this full of joy kid. I like, he's 369 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: really beautiful and just I don't know, he always lights 370 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: up my day when I come across his picture. 371 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 2: He's very much a little bundle of joy. I mean, 372 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: he you know, he can't sugar hood. He's difficult. He's 373 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: you know, and five, he's still like a toddler and 374 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 2: he's in very destructive mode now where it's just like 375 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: you don't pay attention to him for a minute, he'll 376 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 2: get any into anything. But it's uh, you know, the 377 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: love there and just the beauty of him is just 378 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 2: you know, it's hard to describe to other people, and 379 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 2: it's just in you know, his siblings just adore him. 380 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 2: It's like we don't have favorite kids, but kids they 381 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: have a favorite sibling and they just uh it's you know, 382 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: and that helps a lot because you know, and he 383 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: needs gonna need extra help, and it was nice to 384 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 2: know he has uh his brother and sisters there. 385 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really beautiful. So end here with your best 386 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives. 387 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: I know we talked a lot about you know, the 388 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: different things that people you know, how they can be 389 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: more grateful. But do you have like an overarching tip 390 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: for people to make their lives better today? 391 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: I think, uh, just one thing I started to do 392 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: recently is just a beginning of my work day, I 393 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: say a prayer and just to try to center on 394 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 2: you know, what's important and things because you always get 395 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: because when you sit down and pray, I feel like, 396 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 2: realize what things I'd ask for that aren't really important 397 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: versus you know, what's really uh, you know, the important things. 398 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 2: And I always liked to That's what seven habits highly 399 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: successful people had a There's a few good things in there, 400 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 2: and one was like always start with the end in mind. 401 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 2: And that's when it's like, you know, I really want 402 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: to be a novelist. I really want to be successful 403 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 2: a writer. Like you know, think at the end, like 404 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 2: what do you want people to say at your funeral? 405 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 2: And I wouldn't care, you know, feel said, oh, he's 406 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: really good writer and stuff. But like you know, my 407 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 2: kids just say, you know, it's a good father. And 408 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 2: you know my wife just say, you know what, someone 409 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: strong supportive for her and uh. And I think it's 410 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 2: you know, it's good every day to uh reflect on 411 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 2: the blessings you have and uh and then you know, 412 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 2: and what you're really uh, what you're really aiming for. 413 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: That was really good. You know. I think of you, 414 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: I mean obviously as a very funny guy and you're 415 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: on Twitter and you're a comedy writer and you just 416 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: uh and this has been a really funny, you know, 417 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: not funny, but very deep, non funny conversation where I 418 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: feel like we got into some real, you know, deep things. 419 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: It's it's just interesting to see somebody's personality off of Twitter, and. 420 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 2: It hasn't really been a great sales pitch for Like, Hey, 421 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 2: this is a funny guy. 422 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: He's really funny. You should follow Frank Flemming on Twitter. 423 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: He's hilarious and his writing is really funny. But you know, look, 424 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: I gotta be serious sometimes too, and we covered a 425 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: lot of serious ground here. So thanks so much for 426 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: coming on. Frank, love talking to you. 427 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 2: Hey, thanks so much for having me. 428 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us on The Carol 429 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: Markowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.